The Sage Steele Show | Episode 69

Title: How Big Pharma and Big Food Keep America Sick
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Kelly Means (Senior Adviser to Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the deep-rooted issues plaguing America's health care and food systems, focusing particularly on how Big Pharma and Big Food perpetuate cycles of sickness and profit. Sage Steele sits down with Kelly Means, senior adviser to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., for an eye-opening discussion about government corruption, profit incentives, the state of U.S. public health, and recent reforms under the Trump/Kennedy administration. The conversation is personal, at times dark, but ultimately hopeful—emphasizing the potential for cultural change, policy victories, and the power of questioning established systems.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inside the White House: The New Reform Movement

(01:19–05:57)

• White House Work Ethic: Means describes the intense, around-the-clock work by some of the "most competent and high performing people ever assembled," especially since the Trump/Kennedy coalition (03:03).
• Preparation & Personnel: Years of preparation, including detailed personnel lists, underpinned the administration's rapid launch of executive actions.
• **“Personnel is policy”—reforming government agencies is central to the agenda.
• Quote:
  “I think we're in the midst of potentially one of the three most consequential presidencies in American history.”
  —Kelly Means, 03:33

2. The Depth of Systemic Corruption

(05:57–09:44)

• Entrenched Incentives: The "rot" runs deep in institutions like the Department of Health and NIH, where success is measured by profits, not better outcomes:
  “In healthcare...they do not argue around the metric of improving American health at all. It's fully about jobs, it's fully about money and it's transparent.”
  —Kelly Means, 07:07
• Structural Barriers: Means warns these systems won’t turn around in 2–4 years; massive wins help hold the reform coalition together but full change will take a decade or more.

3. America’s “Sick System”—Root Causes & History

(14:52–19:13)

• From Good Intentions to Chronic Disease: After WWII, food processing and chronic prescriptions became entrenched for profitability. Now, nearly all healthcare spending is on chronic, not acute, issues.
• Medical Culture: The medical establishment discourages nutrition discussions:
  “She said, they told her, they actually said stop being a pussy. You are not a nutritionist, you are a doctor. And we've created...That's not serious, that's not serious medicine.”
  —Kelly Means, recounting his sister’s med school experience, 16:27

4. The Role & Tactics of Lobbyists: From School Lunches to SNAP

(19:13–25:18)

• Weaponizing Policy: Large food companies and pharma lobby groups routinely manipulate guidelines for profit, sometimes by co-opting civil rights and anti-hunger messages.
• School Lunch Controversy: Attempts at meaningful reform meet entrenched opposition, with industry even fighting for processed foods in children’s meals.
• Quote:
  “She's a guest. And they have weaponized school lunches to argue, to literally lobby that we shouldn't be increasing more nutritious options for school lunches.”
  —Kelly Means, 18:53

5. Landmark Reforms: Removing Soda from SNAP and Front-of-Package Labeling

(25:15–36:14)

• SNAP Overhaul: Major states including Texas and Florida have removed soda from SNAP, despite lobbying:
  “Coke makes $4 billion a year just from taxpayer money on SNAP.”
  —Kelly Means, 25:19
• Food Dye & Ingredient Transparency: State bans on food dyes led the FDA to require proof of ingredient safety; the U.S. had 10,000 approved chemicals compared to Europe’s 300.
• Front-of-Package Labeling: Radical reform in food labeling, pushed by state action, is leading to a first-in-decades overhaul.

6. A Cultural Awakening: Shifting Power to Voters & Individuals

(36:14–42:03)

• Patient Empowerment: More patients now question prescriptions and seek root causes—this is seen as a core victory.
• Restoring Trust: The medical community, still resisting, remains entrenched in the interventionist model, making individual skepticism essential.
• Quote:
  “If you have an infection, a burst appendix...the US medical system is miraculous at acute things...But that's about 7% of health care spending.”
  —Kelly Means, 47:36

7. Challenging Medical Authority, Advocating for Common-Sense Health

(47:22–56:30)

• Advice for Patients: Means encourages seeking second opinions, getting extensive bloodwork, and focusing on functional medicine, especially for chronic conditions.
• Medical Infantilization: Both government and medical institutions have fostered dependency, shaming parents who resist medication for children or demand better food standards.

8. Equity, Race, and Policy Manipulation

(51:30–56:02)

• NAACP & Industry Lobbying: Co-opted organizations use “racial justice” arguments to fight against nutrition improvements, but support expensive pharmaceutical interventions without questioning their cost.

9. Policy vs. Culture: The Real Path Forward

(56:30–61:23)

• Affordability, Access & Culture: While cost is an issue, Means argues that cultural change, clear messaging from health leaders, and personal responsibility are key. “We've kind of infantilized people a little bit and we've kind of like hadn't given them tough love.” —Kelly Means, 58:32

10. Kids’ Health: Schools, Diet, and Fitness

(66:53–71:33)

• School Food Reform: Plans to overhaul school food, revive the Presidential Fitness test, and counter decades of lobbyist-driven nutrition guidelines.
• Ultra-Processed Food: Parents encouraged to keep it out of the home, focus on real food (protein, veggies, some grains), not banished treats but daily habits matter most.
• Quote:
  “Kids love steak. It gets them full. It's protein. They love it. They like it more than candy. It's amazing. Like steak is great. It's got a ton of nutrients.”
  —Kelly Means, 70:12

11. Personal Story: Loss, Mourning, and Motivation

(72:02–83:42)

• Means’ Mother’s Pancreatic Cancer: Her passing underscored for Means and his sister Casey the failings of the system and the importance of empowering individuals to seek root causes.
• Gratitude & Mission: The loss became a springboard for their activism and book (“Good Energy”), as well as a moving family story of grief and resilience.
• Quote:
  “She was on five medications. That's the big thing, the resonant thing for me about my mom is... at five medications, she was on less medications than the average 71 year old. And she was told she was healthy.”
  —Kelly Means, 72:13

12. Cancer: Prevention vs. Cure and the U.S. Crisis

(84:17–88:01)

• Misplaced Priorities: America spends massively on cancer treatment, but not on prevention.
• Highest Cancer Rates: The U.S., and especially Iowa, have the world's highest cancer rates, likely influenced by environmental factors—especially in agriculture.
• Farmers & Pesticides: The path forward requires reforms, not condemnation, but practical, supportive innovation for farmers.

13. Outlook: Optimism vs. Darkness

(89:01–End)

• Societal Change: Means is hopeful, arguing the broader movement—a “cultural awakening”—matters more than any single piece of policy.
• Movement’s Future: The goal is persistent, multi-year transformation, not a “flash in the pan.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It is the corruption. The co option of our governmental systems are breathtaking beyond imagination...they do not argue around the metric of improving American health at all. It is fully about jobs, it's fully about money and it's transparent.”
  —Kelly Means, 07:07

• “My sister at Stanford Med School...They told her...‘stop being a pussy. You are not a nutritionist, you are a doctor.’”
  —Kelly Means, 16:30

• “Coke makes $4 billion a year just from taxpayer money on SNAP. $4 billion a year.”
  —Kelly Means, 25:19

• “It's not a talking point. This administration is trying to reclaim science. And Bobby is not telling anyone at the NIH what the answer should be. He's trying to make sure that they're not threatened over asking taboo questions.”
  —Kelly Means, 42:03

• “If there's one message I have, you know, from seeing inside the NIH, the FDA, it's that patients are on their own right now. When it comes to chronic disease, the system is not worthy of trust. It's worthy of being listened to, but it's not worthy of trust.”
  —Kelly Means, 44:44

• “Symptoms are a gift...Patients need to go on their own path to figure out what's going on at the root cause. And you're not going to get that from the traditional medical system.”
  —Kelly Means, 50:53

• “If parents just woke up and gave their kids real food, we would absolutely dramatically improve the economy, dramatically improve happiness and productivity of our citizens, and dramatically reduce the budget.”
  —Kelly Means, 61:23

• “America has the highest cancer rates of any country in the world, the United States in human history. Iowa is the highest cancer rates in the country.”
  —Kelly Means, 87:10

Important Segment Timestamps

• White House Reform & Personnel: 01:19–05:57
• Corruption in Health & Food: 05:57–09:44
• Medical History & Chronic Disease: 14:52–19:13
• Lobbying Tactics & School Lunches: 19:13–25:18
• State Action: SNAP & Food Labeling: 25:15–36:14
• Patient Empowerment, Doctor Skepticism: 36:14–42:03
• Challenging Authority & Building Trust: 47:22–56:30
• Race, Inequality, & Food Industry Influence: 51:30–56:02
• Cultural Change vs. Policy: 56:30–61:23
• Kids’ Food, School Reform & Fitness: 66:53–71:33
• Personal Story—Mother’s Illness: 72:02–83:42
• Cancer Prevention vs. Cures: 84:17–88:01
• Movement’s Future & Hope: 89:01–End

Episode Tone & Host-Guest Dynamic

The conversation is frank, personal, and at times blunt about the failures of public health and the medical establishment—balanced by energetic optimism for ongoing reforms and the belief in collective cultural change. Sage Steele guides the discussion with urgency and curiosity, relating as both a journalist and a parent, while Kelly Means alternates between policy expertise, data-driven argument, and deeply personal testimony.

For Listeners: Key Takeaways

• America’s health problems are deeply entrenched in profit-driven medical and food systems.
• Lobbyists use sophisticated tactics—including co-opting trusted institutions and civil rights organizations—to maintain the status quo.
• Real change requires not just policy, but a collective “cultural awakening”—one that starts with individuals questioning, learning, and changing habits.
• Recent state-level wins (like SNAP reform and food labeling) show the power of grassroots demand and political momentum.
• Patients and parents must empower themselves: ask questions, seek root causes, and be skeptical of interventions that don’t address underlying health.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone concerned about the intersection of health, politics, and culture—or anyone ready to think differently about how America might "get healthy again."