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The Sage Steele Show
"I Hit Rock Bottom After Getting Red-Pilled" | The Sage Steele Show | EP 66
01:38:12
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- [00:00]
A
Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. His name is Xavier Derusso and if you don't know him, you should. I'm still a little choked up. A little knot in my stomach, some tears in my eyes still after this conversation with Xavier, who is a 28 year old man who grew up on the south side of Chicago and was told he could only think one way because of the color of his brown skin. And and needless to say, he has taken a deep dive and is now an incredible political activist, but somebody who leads with free speech. When your Instagram handle says you're allowed to disagree with an American flag, I want to know more about you. And that's exactly what I just got to do with Xavier. He works now for Prageru, has his own show, but his following throughout the social media platforms is incredible. Again, a kid who was told that you can only think one way and has been demonized by many in the black community for his beliefs. He has just taken it all to heart and said, I'm going to be true to myself and try to uplift others along the way. And along the way that journey was so painful in many ways, from losing friends and family members to really a mental breakdown that he opened up about for the very first time. I'm so grateful for his vulnerability and his strength. Enjoy this episode of the Sage Steel show with Xavier Derusso and let me know what you think. First of all, I'm so I'm live that you are sitting here in my pseudo living room because I've watched you forever. And then I think we met at the Turning Point USA at Amfest. Yes, finally. And it's hard to miss Xavier walking up with your entourage and microphones and I was like, oh, here he is. He is live and in person. You are totally yourself and it's been awesome to watch you from afar. I thought I had more blonde hair. You make me look like a brunette again.
- [02:29]
B
Well, you know, it's easy because I'm naturally blonde. At least I identify as naturally blonde.
- [02:34]
A
That's how you identify.
- [02:36]
B
And it's such an incredible honor to be here.
- [02:40]
A
No, it is really awesome for me. And then especially learning your story, which I don't know how many times you've told it. I don't really care. I need to hear it with my own ears and eyes and feel it. Because watching your evolution, I guess it's been. Is that a fair word for it? It's fair, yeah. It's been fast for sure. You've kind of skyrocketed. How the hell does a young man who was raised as I'm going to call you, a left wing nut job back in the day, marching for BLM south side of Chicago end up maga?
- [03:17]
B
Oh, how far back do we go?
- [03:19]
A
You tell me.
- [03:21]
B
Well, so you know, yes, I was born in Southside Chicago. And I'll go all the way back to like the beginning, basically.
- [03:30]
A
And I should have said not just maga, but a major influencer on social media and having tough conversations. Yes, with MAGA across your forehead, which I don't even think is fair. But at the end of the day, when you look like us, it is different. And so you are not just maga, you are out there and you're having conversations and making changes and influencing millions. Okay, go.
- [03:52]
B
Well, you know, starting. I was born in south side Chicago. I was born in Inglewood, West 63rd street, like two minute walk from O block, which is notoriously the worst neighborhood in Chicago, which nobody would ever believe these days that I'm from there because my family essentially fled like refugees out of the hood and moved to the middle of nowhere corn fields of Illinois. And it was because crime was getting so bad there, everything was just so dangerous in Southside Chicago. And really my parent, I was the youngest of three and my parents just really didn't us to become hood rats essentially. And I always say it's like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, but backwards. Because my eldest brother got into trouble one time and my parents were like.
- [04:31]
A
Yeah, we're done, really.
- [04:33]
B
And we packed up and we moved to this tiny little cornfield town called Pontiac. It's about two hours from Chicago, 10,000 people, 95% white and very conservative. So the interesting thing is I was the youngest and I spent all my summers as a kid for the most part in Chicago and every other weekend in Chicago. But I mostly grew up in this tiny cornfield town. And because I was so young when I got there, I adapted the best, but was still always struggling with the identity thing. But with my parents.
- [05:05]
A
What do you mean by the identity thing?
- [05:06]
B
You know, my parents were so with me, with my identity, it was like I would spend my time in Pontiac where I felt like I was too black for the white kids. And then I would go up to Chicago and I was too white for the black kids. So I would get teased all the time of like, oh. Because I spoke properly. They were like, oh, well, you talk like a white boy. Ms. Charlene, grandson and a little white boy. What y' all name is little white boy? Like, that was how they would speak to me all the time. Every time I would go back and it was like this hard just position that I was in, essentially where I would feel like, do I need to adapt and behave and conduct myself like these kids are in Southside Chicago or. And like, I grew. I was like childhood friends with Chief Keef. If, you know, you know, it's like that was my dynamic as a little kid. No, then your rent is probably paid.
- [05:55]
A
Who's Chief Keef?
- [05:57]
B
He's a rapper.
- [05:58]
A
See, I'm totally exposing myself. Don't look at me. Don't roll your eyes at me. No, I didn't grow up. I was an army kid living on these safe, quiet army bases, you know. So I was also, you know, too white to be accepted by black kids. Not all. Many. For that reason, I was like, what do you mean? And no, you can't talk like that.
- [06:18]
B
So Chief Keith, he's this rapper from the trenches of Chicago.
- [06:21]
A
Okay.
- [06:22]
B
Basically turned his life around, I believe. But he's like, I hope by now, but definitely known as like very hood rap music. Like, that's the. And his. He talks a lot about his upbringing, like how rough the area was that he grew up in. And that was where I spent my summers and where I lived the first couple years of my life. And then it was weird because it's like my mom would tell me, never act like this. They do because. And like the kids in south side Chicago, because if you do, you're going to end up on the same path and journey as them and their family, which more often than not is either prison or an early grave, if we're being so honest about IT, or Section 8 housing, best case scenario, a lot of the time. And then at the same time, though, my parents struggled for a while to adapt to being in this all white environment because they were so liberal and so left leaning, and their families are even more left leaning and radical Marxism and all of that is like rooted deeply into my family. And they would tell me all the same, at the same time, it's like, you can't trust white people. I have family members who would refer to white people as blue eyed, red headed devils. I would be told all these different rules of how I needed to conduct myself around white people. So I never really knew how to feel because here I am in this town, and for the most part, I'm really well liked and I have all these white friends. But at the same time, it's like I feel like I have to keep this extra boundary because I'm black. So it's like I had to pick a struggle my entire life. And as I got older, I started feeling the need to find identity and purpose. So I started digging deeper and deeper into my blackness. And that's how I started getting into activism. And before BLM was even really popularized like it was in 2020, I was already on that train in high school, in college, and just doing all this activism that I could on campus to try to get people to pay attention to the struggle of black people. So that was how it really began. Then how the transformation happened is in 2020, I was literally just bored. I was bored. And when everything started popping off with blm, I had already again, been well into that whole space. And before George Floyd's passing, I had applied to be on this reality show on Netflix called the Circle. And I applied as a joke. I had no desire to be famous. I had no desire to be a reality star. It was a joke because that was the. That I would watch with my roommate at the time's girlfriend, and she kept telling me I would be on there. And the premise of the Circle is imagine you're all. It's kind of like Big Brother, except you're all in apartment buildings and you don't meet who you're competing against. So it's very Covid friendly. So you have these online profiles, and that's how you compete for popularity and do your challenges within your room. And the premise is some of you are on there as catfish, and some of you are on there as your real authentic selves. So I wanted to go on there and be myself and talk a bit about activism, but I was just gonna be myself if I ended up getting selected. So I ended up getting the call back of them saying that they wanted me on the show. Simultaneously, as this was happening, everything started really popping off with George Floyd, the Summer of Love, all of that. And I'm like, oh my goodness, where is this going? So they told me, even though I had to sign a contract saying that I came up with it myself, that they told me that they wanted me to be a catfish. And the premise of it was I was going to be a woke white sorority girl named Samantha. And my profile was going to be this blonde girl. I was actually using the girl that was from my high school that I was good friends with that was homecoming queen. So I took all of her sorority photos and I was going to have her face. And the premise of my character is, how do I essentially teach you to be a BLM activist from the perspective of a woke white girl?
- [10:14]
A
Oh, my goodness. Samantha.
- [10:18]
B
Samantha. Basically trans.
- [10:21]
A
Yes. Oh, my gosh.
- [10:23]
B
I was digitally transgender, essentially, is what my character arc was going to be. And as I'm getting ready, I'm like, okay, so I'm going to be the one on here talking about all the woke stuff. So I had to become as deeply researched as possible. So I started going on this deep dive. And it started with I saw this video from Prager U that made me so irritated. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna start doing a whole deep dive on Prager U. I'm gonna make this whole series debunking Prager U videos. All their five minute videos, all their educational videos. Anything that has to do with race or the right wing, I wanted to debunk. And it was a mortifying process because one by one, I kept debunking myself.
- [11:05]
A
Oh, unbelievable.
- [11:09]
B
Because, you know, it's the first time that I really started researching without confirmation bias. At that point, I thought I was really objective and I realized that I wasn't. And I realized that I had been researching for my own narrative rather than researching for the truth. And as I continuously debunked myself, eventually got to this point, it's like, I don't stand for any of this anymore. And we were so deep into the process of like the finals for going on the Circle, I was like, you know what? I can't do this show anymore. I think it's better off if I just walk away. And I backed out of the show and had no idea what I was going to do next.
- [11:44]
A
What did the producers say? I mean, you had already signed on, right?
- [11:47]
B
You know, they were okay with was a process of 25,000 people because they were filming seasons two and three back to back because of the pandemic. And I told them, I was like, I. If I. If I have to be a catfish on there and have this character arc because it's locked in, it's like, I would rather back out. And they're like, you know what? It's ok. They had A list of people ready to jump in anyway. And they didn't know how. They started to be even iffy about if they should even have the show be super political if I'm not gonna be there. And they just like, you know what? It's fine. They just replace me with some other sassy black guy.
- [12:22]
A
Sassy, no shade, no. Samantha, though, would never have been able to pull off Samantha like you would have, I'm guessing, right? I am blown away. Okay, so before we go forward from there, can I go back to that immediate process when you're continuing to debunk yourself? You were annoyed with what you were reading?
- [12:44]
B
I went through pretty much the five stages of grief where I was in denial. I was emotional, I was angry. It took a while for me to reach a place of acceptance about the fact that I had rooted so much of my identity into this activism. Because again, after spending my entire life being told, you act white, you are. You act white, you sound like a white boy. But then simultaneously being told that I'm inherently ghetto and bound to be a criminal and thug because I'm black, it's like I couldn't pick a struggle. I couldn't pick a narrative. I didn't know what to do because it's like I always prioritize good school, like, good grades in school. Like, I always tried to do the right thing, but it still seemed like it wasn't enough. And I became such a perfectionist with grades like I never had a B. Like, I still to this day have nightmares about seeing a B on a report card. Like that would have been my personal Pearl Harbor. Like, I was such a perfectionist because I wanted that to be my identity. And because I realized that that wouldn't last forever. It became this activism. That's how I understand why people make woke their religion, because it really is where they find identity and purpose. So when I realized that all of this is built on a foundation that was fraudulent, I was mortified. I was embarrassed. I spent years and years and close to a decade at that point just constantly talking about these things. My social media to my audience of maybe a couple thousand, but still, like, that was my audience at the time. And I was well known in my community for being that go to guy for all the nuanced conversations. So it was a really hard process. And, you know, especially because in 2020 especially, I had started seeing the writing on the wall and I tried to.
- [14:24]
A
Overlook it, which writing.
- [14:27]
B
So when I was going to these BLM protests, at this point, I'm living in the San Francisco Bay area. And I remember, I believe it was the first George, like pro George Floyd protest I went to. I had so many questions. I'm talking to, like, the main organizers and I'm like, why are we having to pay for stuff? Why are people having signs to say all cops are bad? Cause I was never on that train. I was never a radical lefty. I was a more logical, left leaning person for the most part. As if that can even be a thing.
- [14:57]
A
Yeah. Is that an oxymoron?
- [14:58]
B
Yeah, a bit of an oxymoron. But I wasn't an unhinged leftist, I'll put it that way. I was always tolerant. I always had conservative friends. Like, I was never like a radical Marxist like some of the people in my family were, because I never hated anybody necessarily. I just blamed white people for a lot of things unnecessarily. But I didn't hate white people because I grew up around white people and around conservatives. But I remember asking them, like, why are we paying for this stuff? Why are people so angry? Why are people looting and rioting and all of this? And I was told that I'm asking way too many of the wrong questions, that I needed to stay in my lane. I remember that very specifically being told to stay in my lane and just fall in line, essentially. So it was very bizarre to me that no one wanted to have nuanced conversations. And this whole protest is about tolerance. And I remember the first protest I went to was in Walnut Creek, California, and there was this incident that was again, a huge red flag for me where the protests had been peaceful, respectful, mostly peaceful all the way up until the very end when people started marching onto the freeway. And I was like, oh, no, this is too ghetto for me. I'm not getting on the freeway. Like, what do I look like, a traffic stop? So. So I remember watching, though, as this one, this white man ran up to the police screaming, shoot me, shoot me. Antagonizing the police. And they're like, get back, get back. They warned him at least six times and finally they shot him with a rubber bullet. I cannot emphasize enough the way this man got down. Perfect pose. Let the blood drip a little bit. God is friends with a professional camera to take a photo of the blood dripping. And within minutes, all over Instagram was how this peaceful protest led to people being attacked and how nothing illegal was happening and nothing was being done wrong. But here this guy is having his bloodshed, and now this means we need to retaliate and go loot. Tonight. And to witness that, I was baffled. I was like, here you are just being a martyr. It's like that's what you're doing. I was mortified. And I remember watching live on Twitch, I made a Twitch account for the sole purpose of seeing what's actually happening at these riots. And I'm seeing like all these mostly white, to be honest, antifa members going and looting and rioting. My favorite, Nordstrom. So I was, hell, no.
- [17:21]
A
Leave my Nordstrom alone.
- [17:22]
B
I was like, can I have anything? I was so puzzled.
- [17:27]
A
That was the turning point. Nordstrom. No, I'm kidding.
- [17:29]
B
It should have been. I was so upset. And again, when I would try to ask those questions, I was told not to. So then I started doing the deeper dive. I find out, oh, you guys raised $100 million and none of this is going to black people.
- [17:41]
A
I know.
- [17:41]
B
It was appalling.
- [17:43]
A
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- [19:51]
B
I didn't see you being radical.
- [19:52]
A
No. With anything in my life, but just more. To me it's all, it all comes down to common sense and personal freedom, period. But I remember Candace Owens coming out and saying she was just taking a deep dive into BLM and wondering where are the funds going? Because this could be a really beautiful thing actually, with many communities that need help. Not just black, of course, but if that's what the focus is, fine. And when there was no paper trail of any sort because you can go and you can look, there's public records with finances and just disappeared into thin air. And so when then she was shut down for just asking questions. That's when you go red flag, red flag, red flag. And of course it continued. But in the meantime, they're shaming this country. How many people were shamed into putting up the black square on your Instagram? I did it. I did it. I was working at a woke company at ESPN Disney and it was like they already thought I was awful in many ways because of my views, even though I had not been nearly as public about them at that point. And I was like, no, see, this is proof. See this black square, this is proof. And look at my skin color. Much less white people who felt the need to do that and probably more so than black people really. But to me that was a huge turning point. And of course at the same time as Covid. Right. But when you're just looking for answers and making sure that my hard earned money is actually going to help people and then look, so to me, I don't know how it began. Maybe initially it was very well intended and I don't know at what point somebody got involved and twisted it up and ruined it and how much money was raised. Even if half of that went back to different communities and inner cities, people would have been better off. The problem is that now you lost millions of people who were right there for your cause. Right, right. I don't know how you recover or does it not matter Because I still see some of those same people who are donating and putting black squares up and marching. Marching, like, continuing to say and do the same things.
- [22:12]
B
Yeah.
- [22:13]
A
So do you think the facts coming out about BLM have changed anybody?
- [22:19]
B
I really do think so. And I do have to say about the BLM thing or the. The square really quick. You know, I always thought the square was a joke. Even when I was peak woke, I thought that the square was so performative.
- [22:29]
A
Yeah.
- [22:30]
B
And as like to troll people, I posted. I'm a huge Nicki Minaj, Barb. I took a picture of Nicki Minaj and I put, like, a black overlay on it. So if your brightness was high enough, you saw it was Nicki.
- [22:41]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [22:42]
B
And people were so mad at me. I'm like, please. I'm like, y' all started marching last week.
- [22:46]
A
Yeah.
- [22:46]
B
And you're telling me that I'm being disrespectful. But, you know, when it comes, I do think, for the most part, the BLM movement is dead. I think it has been laid to rest. But at the same time, I think it is. It has become this hybrid where now they have taken it and dropped it into every other movement. Because the tea that nobody wants to spill a lot of the times is every time there is a movement that is losing momentum or losing credibility or doesn't have much substance to stand on, they make it a black person's issue.
- [23:14]
A
Yeah.
- [23:15]
B
So what BLM has become, it's just. It's been mostly turned into Free Palestine. And it's so funny how people make that into a black versus white issue. It's like, tell me you know nothing about the Middle east without telling me. And then they also make BLM an LGBT thing, because why are black people on the flag? Black people didn't ask to be on that flag. You name the social justice cause, they have made it into a black issue. And it's really not new at the same time, because from day one, BLM was always posting about Free Palestine and having that on their banners. It's just people didn't pay attention because back then, people didn't even know where Palestine was, because it's not a country. No shade then. Then also, it's like a lot of the funneling of the BLM funds was going to transgender organizations, LGBT organizations, especially even over in Canada. So it has now just been divided up into multiple different movements. So the same people who refuse to wake up, they are just running with these other movements now. But I do think a lot of people like myself did end up seeing the light and, you know, walked away from it.
- [24:22]
A
They're brilliant, though, the way that they do. The way that they did. The whole BLM movement.
- [24:28]
B
Yeah.
- [24:28]
A
And I guess to your point, it was kind of a slow burn, and then it really blew up when it blew up 2020, I guess, when everybody else discovered what it was. But for them to then see that thing crushed, I mean, has anybody really been held accountable for where those funds have gone?
- [24:46]
B
I think there might have been some people who went to jail, but not long enough, in my opinion, then not enough.
- [24:51]
A
Not all those people who are benefiting from it. And the list is very, very long, I'm sure. But to be able to be creative enough, I guess, and savvy enough to then transition to the next movement and the next movement, that's what I believe the left is very, very good at. And because they own the media, that word carried and made that seem like the truth. You know, I mean, I give them credit.
- [25:15]
B
Woke is parasitic. That's what it comes down to is everything that is just pro anarchy and lacks foundation. Like, they are very good at just. Just inserting it into every little sector. And it's so crazy because those kind of movements really demoralize the people that they're pretending to help. Like, even the body positivity movement has become a black person's fight for whatever reason. It's like, okay, so you want all the young black people to look up to this big, heavyset black statue so that we all can grow up to be as big as a house. Like, that's what you want from us. It's like, you want us to have, like, these unhealthy diets. You want us to continue to fry everything. It's crazy. It's so toxic.
- [25:58]
A
Okay. There's so much there. Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad that you, with your perspective and what you've lived, that you can speak and you have the courage to speak openly about it. And I'm sure that was a transition which we can get into. But even when you mentioned where is.
- [26:15]
B
That statue that was in New York City?
- [26:17]
A
I was gonna say Chicago. New York City. Yeah. And where the hell did it come from? It just suddenly appears.
- [26:23]
B
So apparently it was an artist that was trying to celebrate everyday people, and they were making statues of, like, different demographics. And, like, that statue was actually based off of a real person, I believe, if I remember correctly. And they were placing different ones everywhere to be like, everyone can be a statue and a monument, but that to me, I'm just very anti the premise of. In general, we need to stop making it seem like every single person deserves to be a statue. Every single person deserves to be looked up to because then there is just nothing to look up to. It's, it ties into like my whole. This is such a random tangent, but like, I'm very anti minimalism because minimalism has gotten to a point where whether it's talking about people or aesthetics, where everything becomes so plain and so bland that nothing has character and nothing is worth looking up to. When beauty is represented by nothing, then nothing is beautiful. And that goes all across the board. So when you have this ordinary girl, this ordinary heavyset black girl, then nobody knows what she, who she is, what she's accomplished, what she represents. And this is on a statue, then what are young people supposed to look up to? What are adults supposed to look up? The standard is non existent and you can't rise to low expectations like that.
- [27:38]
A
But what is the goal of putting up a statue like that in the first place? To make people feel more comfortable in their skin, regardless. Which, by the way, isn't healthy in many ways. Right. What's the point of putting up a statue like that?
- [27:57]
B
Idolizing mediocrity, that's what it is. It's to make mediocre a monument. And all that is is demoralizing to every single person that feels inspired by it. Because if you're inspired by, by this statue that represents you and looks like you, what have you done? What are you going to do to be better and to make an impact in this world? And if you just want to be regular, ordinary, that's great. But you can be special in your own way, in your own life. Be a great mother, be a great father, be a great friend. But a statue that represents nothing, of no achievements. It's like, okay, now your resume is a blank sheet of paper and we're all supposed to clap for you.
- [28:37]
A
Yeah. Congratulations. You mention the. I get so angry and you know, the thing is, is when you question it, then you're, you're body shaming and oh, well, look at you. Because you don't have a weight issue or you. Well, hi. I work hard at it too. You know, certainly genetics play a role in a lot of things, but everything that is something takes work. I don't know what the official, you know, quote is. Someone said it much better than I did. But I mean, greatness is achieved through hard work and humility and getting back up and having somebody to look up To. Yeah. And when you look at overall, how many communities. But let's talk about the black community have been told to think and feel. The problem is that too many of us have believed it and then kept the bar really, really low. And when I look at the food and the reason why there's only really terrible fast food in most inner cities. Why is that? That's not a coincidence. Is more fresh food harder to afford? Of course it is more expensive. Yes. But to me, there is a concerted effort in these cities, the city that you grew up in and every major city across this country to make sure that black people stay right where they are and never, never get out. The problem is, is that the government and politicians around have made it easier to do that. Here, here's this. This is free. That's free. This is less. You know, you get more of a tax break if you don't get married. Let's keep the families broken up. I mean, the depths to which black people, I think, have been underserved by our leaders, I don't know that many people want to go there and go deep on it. Why have you chosen to go deep on it?
- [30:28]
B
Well, it's because ultimately I realized that systemic racism turned into systemic disempowerment. So once black people got all of our rights or became free and equal in this country because we had equal rights, what it then became specifically driven by the left and has been driven by the left since day one, is systemic disempowerment, where they go out of their way to reward us and coddle us for our toxic behaviors and to make it seem like, oh, no, it's like, it's not your fault that you are eating these unhealthy foods. It's because of the impact of racism. They make everything into the excuse of someone else. They take away accountability. They take away the desire for us to seek healthy resources, healthy habits, all of that. And even just like what we see on tv, there is a reason as systemic racism started to fade away. It was at the simultaneous time where shows like, I mean, he's not the legend he used to be anymore, but the Bill Cosby show started. Started ending. You can actually see where there was a shift in the media from. And as great of a show as it is, you go from the Cosby show to living single. You go from these healthy family first shows to all of a sudden, all the shows about these city girls and these single people and these hood rats and every element of our culture that started being pushed. It was pushed to make us look up to either mediocrity or toxic lifestyles or destroying the nuclear family. They it wasn't as easy for them to systemically destroy a nuclear family anymore through laws. So what they started doing is disempowering us by making it feel like, oh, you should go and just be a strong, independent black woman who doesn't need a man. Oh, why are you going and starting a family as a man when you should be running these streets, getting your bread up? Like, that's how the transition started happening, really, in the 80s and the 90s. And it has continued to be that status quo where we are always told it is somebody else's fault and that we are not supposed to rise and be better as a community.
- [32:29]
A
But at what point do we stop believing it? Because we do look like the idiots when you sit there and accept all of it and then choose to live your life at a, I don't know, a lower, lesser level. I mean, you and I can't speak for millions of people just because our skin color. I always used to say that, by the way, the black vote. The black vote, Stop it.
- [32:52]
B
Yeah.
- [32:52]
A
Like, we're not monoliths and we all have different minds and experiences that dictate our opinions, et cetera. But I do wonder, to generalize, like, no matter who you are and where you're from and what skin color you have, at what point do you listen to your heart and what your gut is telling you instead of, I don't know, music, politicians, your friends next door, what is that? Like, how bad does it have to get?
- [33:19]
B
That's the question. How bad does it have to get? You know, I feel like black men and black women, I mean, it goes for all races. Men and women are kind of shifting in politics at different rates. But when it comes specifically to, like, the black community, I feel like a lot more black men are starting to wake up because black men are saying, sick of being represented by degeneracy and way and like this. And the narrative that has some stats to it about black father absence. I know a lot of black fathers who go out of their way to be that much more present. Either one, because their father wasn't, or two, because they don't want to be the stat, they don't want to be a baby daddy. A lot of black men are starting to wonder more about or are starting to desire more to see results. That's why a lot of black men are walking away from the left. They're walking away from woke ideology and they just blatantly don't believe in a lot of this stuff that they talk about. Like, no, you. You will not find a black man outside of Hollywood that thinks that biological men should be competing against their daughters in sports.
- [34:15]
A
Exactly.
- [34:16]
B
That is not going to happen. No. Black men are so against that.
- [34:21]
A
But they're quiet about it.
- [34:22]
B
They're quiet about it for now. But it's getting better. I'm seeing more and more black men who aren't even in the political space starting to speak up. And it's. I think that's going to get better. Hopefully black women. That's on the whole other side, though. That's actually getting worse, in my opinion. And it's because of a couple things. So shout out to black women. Shout out to black women. Because black women are out here racking up degrees. Black women in 2025 get bored and go get another degree. Okay. That's why they are outpacing other demographics and so many metrics when it comes to education. And I love that.
- [34:57]
A
Yes.
- [34:58]
B
I love to see that. The downside of that is, as we know, these universities are so heavy on pushing leftism and progressive ideas. And on top of that, you have the intersectionality of you're a woman and you're black. The Democrats and the left in general, they know that they want to keep that stronghold, and they continuously shower black women and praise and money and opportunities. So why would a lot of these black women on the left want to walk away from the left? Because they're going to come over to the right and be treated equally for the most part. So it's like, why would you leave that position of privilege, that. That position of being put on a pedestal, that position of, you're a black woman, you deserve and will get everything. They're not going to walk away from that. So it's becoming that much more difficult. And I don't know what it's going to take. I don't know what it's going to take for more black women to wake up. But it's scary again.
- [36:00]
A
It's brilliant. It's very well done by the left. It is scary. I do feel in my gut that at the end of the campaign and the election, right before the election, when Obama went into Pittsburgh and scolded black men, that hit a lot of people wrong.
- [36:18]
B
Yeah.
- [36:19]
A
Do you think that made a difference? Have there been a lot of discussions amongst friends or anybody that you've been around that, that talked about that moment?
- [36:28]
B
Yeah. That was insulting. That was really insulting even to, like, my family members that do lean left. I never talk to them about politics because it is completely ripped my family apart.
- [36:38]
A
Yeah.
- [36:38]
B
But I do see what those who haven't blocked me say on Facebook about it. And they were insulted to be called misogynistic because they were questioning whether or not Kamala Harris was the right person for them. It's like we are tired of having choice stripped from us. And, you know, that's really why Gen Z in general started walking away from the left. It's because we were tired of being put into this corner of. You're not allowed to think this, you're not allowed to say this. If you say this, you're going to lose everything. You're going to be canceled. You're going to have all of your accomplishments erased, essentially. If you dare to ask a question that everybody at their dinner table is talking about. This is why people start to walk away.
- [37:22]
A
I just. That's the scary part is when you can't ask a question. It's one thing not be able to ask a question if you're, you know, at a business dinner with someone. It's another thing if you can't ask a question in your family.
- [37:32]
B
Yeah.
- [37:33]
A
And so you understand why people just say nevermind and go silent. There is someone that. That is. Oh, I wish. Maybe it's someday. Someday I can say his name. Someday I hope to have this conversation with him. But I Remember in the 2012 election talking deeply with this very high profile sports personality about the election and where his heart was. But if his family found out that he was not going to vote for Barack Obama, they would never talk to him again.
- [38:06]
B
Wow.
- [38:07]
A
And he lived in fear. I don't know what he eventually ended up voting or who he eventually ended up voting for, but that conversation with him broke my heart for him because I can't imagine what that's like. But it's many people's truths and it has to start there, looking in the mirror. Right. People like you who have chosen to come out and like you said, lost family members. People that, that block you, that are family members. I had a couple, not many that I cared about. At the end of the day, it's kind of nice. Your circle ends up smaller. You end up realizing who really loves you for you versus your opinions and stuff. But I can't imagine what that felt like to the level that it sounds like you experienced it.
- [38:50]
B
You know, it was intense. It still is intense, actually. So. And you know, there's been some improvement, but at the same time, there's some that's only gotten worse. So, for example, like, when I started really speaking out on politics, I was very shocked by how divisive it was going to be. Like, I knew that there were going to be some people who felt hurt, felt betrayed, felt whatever. And I understood that because I started making. So I got. I backed, just to give the timeline a bit. October of 2020 is when I was like, I'm not going on this reality show anymore because I am not going to go and push lies. November 4th of 2020 election. I believe that's election night. So whenever the election was of 2020 is when I decided, you know, I am so upset about these results and Joe Biden taking office that I'm going to start speaking out about what I learned. But I want to do a few more months of research and had to go on a whole spiritual journey in that era too. And then February of 2021 is when I started speaking out. And the backlash was so immediate, so aggressive. And because when I was a liberal, I would have conversations with conservatives all the time where we would agree to disagree on certain things. I would learn from them, they would learn from me, and it was a healthy conversation. Sometimes we would tease each other and then like, you just move on, go have a beer or something. And then there was other times where there were friends where it's like, you know what, let's just not talk about politics because this feels like it's getting heated. I thought that that energy was going to be reciprocated. I did not realize the amount of backlash. And I didn't even know that censorship was a thing. I had never had a post taken down, so I didn't know that you couldn't say certain political things online without it being taken down. All of that was such a shock to me. But what shocked me to my core was my family's reaction. I had cousins say that I couldn't come to funerals because I was a KKK member. I was told that I was a white supremacist, which still don't know how that would benefit me.
- [40:46]
A
That's a great point. I've never put it that way because I've been called that too.
- [40:49]
B
Yeah, it's like, what would that do for me? What would that do for me lately?
- [40:54]
A
So good.
- [40:55]
B
So it was painful. And honestly, the worst too were my father. He and I just had insane tension because he is very, very, very left wing. And we just got into so many nasty spats that we didn't talk for two years. And that really hurt me. Because we had just started. Because we had a rocky relationship for a while, and we had just started getting close, and then, boom, everything just blew up. But I'm really grateful for Dennis Prager. And I could cry just talking about him, because the first time I really got to sit down with Dennis Prager, it was my second week at Prageru, and Dennis doesn't hold back. Have you met Dennis?
- [41:33]
A
Yes.
- [41:33]
B
He will go straight to your business. There is no secrets when it comes to Dennis Prager. And he immediately started asking me about my relationship with my family. And he could tell I was holding back, so he poked a little bit. And then finally I told him. I was like, my father won't speak to me because of what I do, and me now working at Prageru is really just making it worse. And it was Dennis who really strongly encouraged me to go home and see my family for the first time in three years at that point. And I was like, really? He goes, yes. And because of that, it was awkward. It was tense. It was more like a hi, how are you, great to see you, bye type of vibe. But because of the conversation I had with Dennis and him really just emphasizing the importance of certain relationships, I forced myself to heal. And it was at the point where it's like, I'm going to do this for me. I'm going to make it selfish. I'm going to go heal this relationship with my father so that, God forbid anything happens, I can at least know I had a clean slate. And now it's like, for the, oh, I'm gonna get emotional for the first time. Like, we had a great conversation for Father's Day in a long time this year. And it's taken two years, two and a half years of really trying to build that relationship back up. But my father and I are finally on healthy terms again because of Dennis. And I would love to have that same sentiment with more people in my family, because, like my eldest brother, he won't speak to me at all. He thinks I am the spawn of Satan. I actually took his eldest son out to lunch just to talk to him. Like, you just finished your first year of college. Let's talk about how was your. How was your sports season? How are your grades looking? What do you wanted to do? What major you want to transfer into? You and your girlfriend just broke up. Okay, tell me about that. Basic things that an uncle and a nephew would talk about. I get a call cursing me out, saying to stay away from his sons because he doesn't want them to become Trumpers like me. I'm like, you really think I sat and Talked to this 18 year old kid about politics? Are you serious? That's where it is though. It's like I can't even be in the room with certain family members anymore because I have the audacity to think differently than they do. And it's not that I'm extreme, it's not that I'm like anything of that nature. I feel like I lean pretty center, right? So it's so shocking to me. But in his mind, I'm racist because I'm so pro building a wall and having a border around our country and his kids are half Mexican, so he thinks that I'm anti Mexican. I'm like, now let's make that make sense. If anything, I think that Mexicans are the biggest victims of the border not being there. Because if you really do your research and you realize how wrecked Mexico was getting one from the mafia and other things that they're doing, or the cartels, I mean, and everything that they're doing south of the border and the people who are coming up from the Caribbean and South America and wrecking Mexico on the way, I have empathy for them.
- [44:29]
A
Yeah, I'm sure your nephew that you sat down with was just happy to see his uncle. Like, how did he receive you? Because obviously you had been talked about to him before.
- [44:43]
B
You know, we had such a great time. I really, really enjoyed just getting to catch up with them because for years I kind of just like stayed away a bit because I didn't know how my niece and my nephews would react to me. But anytime I'm around them because. And also it's kind of weird for them being like we're from this small town and seeing me like go and build a platform. And all of their friends either know me and they love me or they know me and they hate me because I'm from this small town where no one ever goes anywhere, does anything. So they see me on the news and it's like I've become very polarizing in my hometown because of it.
- [45:15]
A
And if you go home, it's not like you blend in, right?
- [45:17]
B
It's like, I stick out. I always did. I always did stick out. I was like one of a handful of black kids in my whole school. Like, we used to have state of the culture meetings on my locker every day or every week during high school. So it was like, I can only imagine the pressure that they feel of people grilling them because they tell me this, like, that they get asked about me a lot. And I tell them, I'm like, look, just tell them you have nothing to do with my politics. That's it. But I've never really sat and had a conversation with any of them about politics. I don't want to, and I would not want them to do what I do. I love what I do. I'm passionate about what I do. But I would never want to see my loved ones deal with the hate and the backlash that I deal with. So it's just. It's really heartbreaking. But what does make me feel happy is to know that at the end of the day, now that they've seen that, oh, wait, they call me Puffy in my hometown. I'm. I'm Puffy. So they see when they meet me or when they see me in person again, it's like, oh, he's still just Uncle Puffy. He just has followers now in a blue check. That's the only difference. And I love that they are able to still see me for me. I just wish that my other family members could do that, too.
- [46:27]
A
They say time heals. And maybe, maybe especially if you keep leading with kindness, which you do. And I feel like you always have from what you're saying, but especially the way that you approach your nephews. Like, that's the proof is in the pudding. You're not trying to indoctrinate them. I'm just touched by what you said about Father's Day, and I'm so grateful for you that it was the first time in a long time, years, that you were able to have a good conversation with him. What did you say?
- [47:02]
B
You know, we just talked about life, basically. Just like, when are you going to come visit me in LA again? Okay, let's figure that out. Okay. I'm going to come back home for Thanksgiving. Just like, how's work going? Like, just being able to have. Whether it was small talk, it wasn't anything super, super deep because, like, my dad's just not that kind of person. But just being able to have a conversation like normal, like, there's no tension here. I bought him a PlayStation 5. So I'm like, oh, what games did you get? And I'm talk about my mom getting annoyed because the PlayStation is loud and, like, him playing, like, the Call of Duty games is loud. So just being able to banter about stuff like that and, you know, joke about my mom's quirks and just. Just how things used to be, just simple. That's all I wanted.
- [47:48]
A
What did he say to you that.
- [47:51]
B
He'S proud of me. And we didn't go super deep into politics. He still doesn't fully understand what I do. My mom especially doesn't. Her trying to explain what I do is actually such a funny thing to hear. She's like, so he's not a politician, but he does stuff on the news. But he's not a reporter. But he. But people. People come up to him and say hi. And I'm like, I don't know.
- [48:14]
A
Just my kid.
- [48:15]
B
Just my kid. And he just speaks his mind like I always have. And, you know, him just being proud that I'm happy and that my rent is paid.
- [48:26]
A
Yeah, well, it's definitely paid and then some because his little boy is helping. Like the term influencer is overused, even though it's true. But it's more like that to me, feels kind of cold. And, yes, I'm benefiting from being famous. No, you are influencing lives by showing your courage. And were you surprised that he said he was proud?
- [48:54]
B
It's, like, weird. Was I surprised? No, but I was taken aback because. How do I put this? I don't think he would talk to me at all if he wasn't proud of me. I think it would have been easier for him to just never speak to me again. If he was truly ashamed of me. And him saying that he was proud, I know that he knew that that's something that I secretly really wanted to hear, even though I never would have asked for it. I never would have sought that out, because I have gotten really good at just being, you know, emotionless with certain things. But when it comes to my family and people who know me really personally, I'm the biggest softie in the world. And I think he knew I wanted that. And that, honestly, was such a gift to me. So it felt good to hear.
- [49:56]
A
I would think there's many reasons he's proud, especially considering how hard he and your mom worked, the decisions they made to leave home and to start over in a town that was very uncomfortable for your family, it sounds like. And his hard work was an example for you. And if nothing else, I know he's got to see how hard you are working to do what you're doing, which obviously you love. You've said you love your job, but it's a hard choice. Like, you have certainly chosen an uphill climb, you know?
- [50:35]
B
Yeah.
- [50:37]
A
Have there ever been times where you're like, okay, this is too much. It's causing division in my family. You are threatened, ostracized, and as tough as we are. You're still human.
- [50:52]
B
Yeah.
- [50:54]
A
Have you questioned that because of all those factors, questioned your choices?
- [50:58]
B
You know, I never allow myself to ask questions because there's no going back. When I decided I was going to make content, I knew that I was serious about this. I knew I wanted to make an impact and I wasn't going to let anything stop me. And, you know, part of it is it does get, like, stressful sometimes with the death threats, with the constant harassment, all of that type of stuff. Like, just had to send out a couple cease and desist last week. No big deal. It's like, those are the type of things that you deal with. But I knew that that was going to come with the territory, and I feel like there is no, there's. If I wanted to make an impact, I had to. You have to sacrifice and get out of your comfort zone, because your comfort zone is where your dreams die. And after all the things that happened in 2020, how mind blown I was and how distraught I was after realizing I was wrong about everything, I was like, I have to leave this world with more people who have common sense and wanting to help win the election. Like Trump winning in 2024 was so validating for me. I, like, actually cried because I was like, okay, these last four years of basically fighting for my life on the Internet has. It's. I feel like I had a small part in that, you know, having so many people telling me that they shifted their mindset or that they voted for a different way because of my content. I've also had people reach out to me saying things like I've spoken out about, too, like when it comes to certain. Because I've dealt with depression before, it's like the biggest thing for me is I didn't like medication to deal with my depression or my generalized anxiety disorder. For me, it was like I had to find purpose and I had to find God. And me just talking about that, I had people reaching out to me, saying that they were going to talk to their doctor about the possibility of lessening their dosage. And they were getting back into church. And I was like, there's nothing that's better than that of making you feel this. The feeling of thinking, wow, I hope someone feel like they're becoming a better person, a better father, a better mother, a better friend. That to me means the world and even being able to make people laugh. I bawled my eyes out when I was in Israel a couple months ago because people were coming up to me saying that after October 7th and the horrors of October 7th, that the only account that would make them laugh was mine. And I'm like, really? And so many people told me I was the only person that put a smile on their face while their family members and friends were hostage.
- [53:29]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [53:31]
B
And that just. I couldn't. I cried probably so much of my trip while I was there because hearing that makes me feel like this is all worth it. Because this is. It's bigger than me.
- [53:43]
A
Totally.
- [53:43]
B
It's like, I don't care about the following number. I don't care about anything. I want to feel like I made an impact. And to hear something like that, it makes all of this so worth it.
- [53:55]
A
Does your family know that?
- [53:57]
B
No.
- [53:59]
A
They need to know that.
- [54:02]
B
If they ask, I would tell them. But they're such a. With my parents to keep that relationship healthy and on the positive trajectory that it is now. We just don't talk about that. We don't talk about that at all. My mom probably understands it a little bit more because she knows she's the only person in my. Her and one of my siblings, a more supportive sibling of what I do. They're the only ones that know, like, I really did hit rock bottom after I got red pilled. You know, it's such. I've never talked about this at all before on my platform. It's such a fairytale story. When I tell the long story short of getting red pilled, Prager U videos debunking me. I decided to start making content. I gained this momentum couple years in I get, so I get to be working at Prager U, which was a fight to get in the door. A lot of people think that because of my backstory, they just hired me. Oh, no. I had to earn that. That took many years of earning that. And, you know, now I'm on the Sage Steel Show. Like, I'm living a happy life. So it looks like a fairy tale. It did go that way, but it was hard. When I got red pilled, I really felt like I lost so much purpose. I left the show. I paused everything I was working on before going on Netflix because I was like, well, I'm going to start this new career being a full time activist and BLM activist and working with progressives and walking away from all of that on top of like everything that went on during COVID because, you know, just being honest with you, during the pandemic, it was hard. I was in the Bay Area where lockdowns were so brutal. I was so depressed and all I wanted to do was be numb. I was drinking more than I drink. Like I. I'm a social drinker. I never drink on my own. I was drinking on my own. I was taking edible gummies all the time. I was doing anything that I possibly could to numb myself. And I became such a shell of myself and I became so stir crazy that by the end of 2020, I was so depressed. I felt like there's very few things in my life that I regret because I feel like you learn lessons. Pretty much majority of my regrets came from that one year of 2020. I made so many mistakes. And it got to the point where I had a full blown mental breakdown December of 2020, to the point where I spent the week of Christmas in a psychiatric hospital because I wanted to end my life. And I've never talked about it before because it's one of those things where it's still hard for me to even think that that's where I was mentally. But I remember there was a moment where I was staring at myself in the mirror and one of the employees at this, like this hospital asked me what I was staring at. And I said, I want to really remember what I look like at my lowest. Because I'm so determined in this new year to give my life purpose again. And when I started making content In February of 2021, that was my healing journey. Making content, doing research, putting a smile on people's face, but also trying to bring common sense to the table. That became my purpose and the reason I wanted to live again and to have been able to overcome that constant depression, that constant anxiety, those suicidal thoughts. I couldn't be any more grateful for what it is that I do and what I've been able to accomplish now. Working with Prager U and sitting down with people like you and hoping that I can give someone the courage to find purpose again.
- [57:39]
A
Who was by your side when you decided to go to that psychiatric ward over the week of Christmas? Were you completely alone?
- [57:50]
B
Technically, I was there by myself. But the people who there were some really good friends who I spoke to often. I would call often while I was there for those days. My mom was really there.
- [58:02]
A
Okay.
- [58:03]
B
I've never even told my dad about it.
- [58:05]
A
You don't think she told him?
- [58:06]
B
She didn't. I asked her not to.
- [58:09]
A
What would he. What would he say.
- [58:13]
B
Now? I think he would just be sad that we didn't talk about it then. I was just so embarrassed. I was embarrassed because I had spent my life being a perfectionist. I was so determined to be this perfect person all the time. And I didn't like to be vulnerable. The thought of being vulnerable was enough to give me an anxiety attack and to be at my lowest like that. I just didn't want anyone to know. I was so. Just ashamed of myself and ashamed of how I allowed myself to become such a shill of myself. Like, throughout 2020, it was bad. It was a bad time for me mentally. But you can bounce back. I had to build back better, dare I say.
- [59:11]
A
There you go. I'm picturing you standing in front of that mirror. Do you remember how long you stood there?
- [59:21]
B
About 10 minutes.
- [59:23]
A
That's an eternity.
- [59:25]
B
Yeah.
- [59:26]
A
What. What were you thinking?
- [59:30]
B
A lot of reflection. It was a kind of. It was combination of things. It was a reflection on everything I was wrong about, whether it was politically or socially or all the mistakes I had made. I was thinking about who I had to live for. The example it would. The bad example it would be for those who loved me and looked up to me, for me to not be in this world. I was thinking about, what is tomorrow gonna look like? What is the next day going to look like? What am I going to do when things get tough? When I have a more. When I have a day that feels heavier than others? How am I gonna get through that? What's my commitment to myself? I committed to myself that every day. When I woke up, before I even got out of bed, before I checked my phone, I needed to spend at least five, ideally 10 minutes praying and thanking God that I am here another day. What am I going to do that makes me never end up here again? Because it's not going to happen again. And that was my commitment to myself and. Yeah. And also how the second I got out of there, I needed a facial.
- [60:39]
A
You are insane. You're like, I'm looking in this mirror a long time and the pores need some help.
- [60:44]
B
Right? I was like, they don't have good exfoliator here, and it's not doing me justice.
- [60:52]
A
That's the advice you can give them. Whoever's running these things, right? You got to have the products if you want me to stay.
- [60:59]
B
Right. At least some restylene so the lines don't stay in here.
- [61:03]
A
Shut up. Shut up. You're. You know what? I'm glad that you made me laugh right now, because I needed that. And I have to tell you the reason I like. I mean, I. I ask because I genuinely, obviously, again, picturing you standing there with all that you thought your life was going to be, and then you don't know what the heck is next. Like that is fear. That is reason enough for you to say, nevermind. I'll go back over here where it's comfortable, where my family loves me and I don't have to. Thank you. Come on in. David. Are you good? I'm all good together.
- [61:42]
B
If I start crying, I don't stop, so.
- [61:45]
A
I know, I know, but. Massive turning point in your life. Massive. I hope you never allow yourself to forget those 10 minutes again. That's an eternity. I don't know that I could do it right now. Maybe like two minutes. It's about all I could do probably.
- [62:07]
B
You know, there's a lot of power in looking in the mirror. Something my mother and my grandmother would always tell me. It's like if you felt like you were scared or felt like you were just having a panic attack or whatever it was to go into the bathroom, run water, hold your hands in the water and either stare in the mirror or just close your eyes and pray.
- [62:31]
A
Wow.
- [62:32]
B
And it's times like, like that I really miss my grandmother and just all the lessons I learned from her and, and my mom, like to this day, like if my mom's talking to me and I sound like a little panicky, she's like, stop what you're doing and go run some water.
- [62:46]
A
Interesting.
- [62:47]
B
And it's a weird thing. I don't know what it is.
- [62:49]
A
I do believe water is healing. It is the sound of water. That's why you have fountains in people's gardens and yards and. Yeah, that's why I live at the ocean in Florida. And that's why. Because the sound like the waves never stop.
- [63:02]
B
Yeah.
- [63:02]
A
And it makes you realize how small you are.
- [63:04]
B
Right.
- [63:05]
A
And the big picture, the world is so much bigger than you in this one moment. But I've never heard. Heard that advice. I think that sounds, sounds like great advice. These are the things that like, you need to keep sharing. You have been through so much, but have a lot of wisdom and haven't forgotten what your grandma and everybody has told you along the way. Yeah. I got emotional just thinking about you in that moment. I'll move on after this, I promise you. But I'm so grateful that you have shared this. What made you not want to take your life? What made you stop those thoughts?
- [63:53]
B
One phone call. It took one phone call from a really good friend of mine. And that was when I was like, okay, let me sit here and think and slow down before I do something that can't be undone. And my good friend informed my mom And a phone call with a voicemail, really, from her of her begging me to not do anything crazy. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna get the help that I need, like, right now. And it was the best decision I could have made in that moment. And it's. And I appreciate you, you know, even making the sentiment of, like, how easy it could have been to go back to comfort after that, because it really did take building myself up piece by piece and the most chaotic thing. But I'm. I guess I'm one of those people. Sometimes a radical change is helpful for me because then it's like. Like whether it's a change in environment, a different, completely different career path, or whatever it is when I. You would like going back to my comfort zone, I also realized was not going to be good for me because I realized being in my comfort zone has allowed me to become so numb that I got to where I was, where I was so emotionally disassociated and starting this new venture of speaking out about politics and getting really serious about content creation. It's like so ironic that people are like, oh, you're a grifter. You did this for money. You did this because Prageru went and found you out of a BLM crowd and gave you the tools to do this. It's like, please. The chances of me making it are. Were slim to none. You think, especially in 2021, how aggressive censorship was, how aggressive Cancel culture was, how I had people contacting my job, trying to get me fired. I went through hell in those first two years of making content. And it became as uncool to be a conservative, especially a black conservative, as it possibly could be. Getting called a coon and Uncle Tom a sellout, you name it, every single day. That was not an easy thing to do while I'm trying to mentally heal myself and I'm having, like, all this opposition. But honestly, it made me stronger because I had such a good circle of people around me in such a tight knit group that I would go to them and be like, okay, I'm grounded still. Because I have this circle of people who are pouring into me every single day that the noise online. The noise online. I basically equated it to the demons that were in my head a year before. So me battling them distracted me from the demons that I was fighting internally a year before. Wow. And I think that's where I built my resilience. Because now I realize if God's got me, I'm untouchable. And yeah, that is.
- [67:09]
A
That Is. Is beautiful. Do you feel like you left that week and that. I mean, you call it a psych ward. What did you call it?
- [67:20]
B
It was a full, like, psychiatric hospital. It was, like, for mental emergencies. I definitely did not. That was not the type of one I thought I was going to. I thought I was going to more like a therapy type of session. But this was like, okay, this is a whole 5150 type section with schizos and all of that. So I really was terrified in there and stayed in my room. But that solitude was what I needed. I wasn't allowed to have my phone, so it was just me, the walls, and a mirror, and just my thoughts. And honestly, that was so needed. Terrifying, Brutal. Felt like I was there for an entire year. But to walk out, it was like the sun was brighter, the grass was greener and the sky was bluer, and there was nothing but space and opportunity to reclaim a sense of peace.
- [68:16]
A
And what did you do when you left?
- [68:24]
B
I went to Chipotle. I wish there was something that was deeper there, but I went to Chipotle.
- [68:33]
A
I didn't mean literally. I meant with your life. And you're talking about Chipotle and facials. You got a facial after you went to have the burrito, didn't you?
- [68:42]
B
I did, I did. I went and got a facial a few days later. And then I went to Palm Springs and I went with a group of my really close friends to Palm Springs. It was my birthday week, and ironically, that's when January 6th happened. So when I started speaking out about politics, everybody was asking me about J6. I was like, what about J6? I was in Palm Springs. I had no idea. J6 happened for, like, the first few months of me talking about politics, I was so confused. But I was like, what insurrection? What is the insurrection y' all speak of? Like, it was. I thought they were talking about blm. I'm like, I don't know what happened. So. But yes, I went on a vacation, which was, again, a very therapeutic thing. And I kept doing more research and I just started making ideas for, like, what my videos were going to be and, like, what I was going to talk about on this, like, new TikTok account that I had and everything. And my very first video, I made a brand new TikTok. I had. No. To this day, I really don't even know how TikTok works. I know it's overwhelming, like, not to sound like a boomer, because I swear I'm Gen Z. I'm just the first Month of Gen Z. I struggle to find my notifications on that app. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. But I made this account. I had 12 followers from people who knew me from my contacts. And I made my first video, and it was me reacting to Candace Owens, where she was sitting in front of Senate, I believe, and said that white supremacy and white nationalism. If she made a list of 100 things that were currently impacting the black community today, those two things wouldn't be on it. So I green screened myself in front of it. I said, well, I'll start if someone wants to finish. And I just started listing off, like 30 things that are more relevant to the black community today than white supremacy and white nationalism. And I started with father absence. I started with illiteracy rates. I talked about black people's diets. I talked about all these different things, just like, go, go, go. And then I held up a bag of tea and I said, need I continue? And I posted it. I went to work, I checked my phone a couple hours later, and I'm like, how does this video have hundreds of thousands of views and getting shared all over platforms? I'm like, okay, thank you, God. This is the sign that I needed that it's time for me to go all in on this. And that was the moment I realized, okay, I actually have something here. My voice. The world is ready to hear my voice. And I just, I just committed. I was like, let me try to make at least a video a day and see what sticks.
- [71:06]
A
And that's what you've done. That's been your strategy, really? A video a day?
- [71:10]
B
I tried to at least a video a day, and it worked out. And now I'm able to work with Prager U. Where it feels so full circle. Working at Prager U. Yeah, because, you know, that's where it started. You know, I found Prageru, I believe, through Candace Owens and the Candace Owens show. And then I went to Prageru and I saw, like, oh, you have all these five minute videos. And I watched so many of them. Like, I got debunked on so many things. I watched the 5 minute videos on socialism and like, about why, you know, or about different things that were myths. Like, for example, the party switch myth. My deep. My counter argument. Every time people were like, well, the left was the party that did this, this and this. I'm like, well, what about the party switch? Go to find out. Party switch was a myth. I learned about so many different things going through all those different videos. And to be able to now work there and represent the company that changed my life, it's such a privilege. And I'm around so many incredible people. Like you sat down with Marissa Stright and I love the interview you guys did on Real Talk together and, and being able to be around minds like Marissa, her mind amazing as me.
- [72:16]
A
Yeah.
- [72:16]
B
She will never get enough flowers for the way she has built Prager U out of her kitchen and the way she's always thinking of like, how can we make more noise, how can we impact more people? How can we get Prageru kids into schools? How can we make kids content that's engaging? And that was actually my first big opportunity with Prager U is I started making kids content and I started with a show called Guess or Mess. And to be able to. Now I meet random kids who love Guess or Mess. It's like this Nickelodeon style show where they answer trivia questions after reading a Prager U kids magazine. And they read the questions and. Or they read the magazine and then they sit on both sides of this table and then if they get a question wrong, then I pour slime on them. And if they get or like some kind of gross mess and vice versa. And to see these kids be so enthusiastic about learning, it's like that's what it's about. So special the next generation being able to pour into them. So some of the work I'm most proud of was my early work when I was doing Guess or Mess and I hope we bring it back. Shout out to Prageru kids.
- [73:20]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think now more than ever because to your point, with Gen Z and I mean college age kids and I have three in college, one that just got out. One down, two to go. Thank you. And I mean they, they all three were able to vote for the first time. And the Charlie Kirk's of the world and people like you, everybody out there who they identify more with than me have taught them and opened their eyes and it's like, we've got to do this now. While they're wondering, while they're curious, while they're saying, okay, two plus two used to equal four and all of a sudden it doesn't. And it depends on the day because it can change every single day. So like I think that now as yes, Prager U bring that back. It absolutely is the time.
- [74:04]
B
It's while people are asking questions.
- [74:06]
A
Yes.
- [74:07]
B
And I think that's why Prager U has exploded because people are asking questions and like it's just brilliant. Even the way they format a lot of, like, their video styles, it's like, it's like they'll, they'll format the titles of these videos in the format of a question a lot of the times. And it's the exact question that people are asking.
- [74:25]
A
Yes.
- [74:26]
B
So you go and you get these connections, concise five minute videos that break down, explaining all these different things, even just about, like the electoral college. The amount of views that that five minute video has is insane. It's because people are seeking knowledge, because it's ironic that we're in the age of information, but the truth seems harder to find than ever before.
- [74:46]
A
It does. You have to dig. There's so many more options, and that's the problem. And especially when you look at how censorship works. And I mean, hey, Zuckerberg and those guys came out and admitted all of it from the election on until all of a sudden, ding, ding, ding. Oh, wait, Trump's in office. Or about to be. Maybe I should come clean on this. Oh, wait, this is going to cost me. What? I'll be honest now. I'll never forgive you for that.
- [75:09]
B
Right?
- [75:10]
A
Never. Maybe not forgiving is a strong phrase. Maybe I'll never forget.
- [75:15]
B
Right?
- [75:15]
A
For sure. Because forgiveness, whatever, they're not worthy of that energy to not forgive is the way I look at a lot of that. But now is absolutely the time. And we have failed in many ways, I think, for the last 30, 40, 50 years, kind of thinking, oh, people understand. It's patriotism in America's great. Look. Look at this. That's an indoctrination of what has happened and what we see going on right now in Los Angeles and everywhere else. So we must for our kids. That's what you said earlier. This is bigger than you, this is bigger than me, it's bigger than all of us. It's about those kids. And so we never get to the brink of disaster that we were on before the 2024 election. And that night when you and I, I was emotional, too. And I will admit that I never thought that I would be emotional over who won or lost for president. And I was emotional for both reasons, like, thank you, Jesus, that she lost and thank you, Jesus that President Trump won. After everything I need to ask you about, you mentioned the name calling Coon and Uncle Tom. I have seen that every day on my feed for about seven years too. And I'm proud that I can overlook it. And it has made me stronger. And you said it's made you stronger. And then every once in a while, when I really think about it. It's like I don't let myself think about it often because it's uncomfortable. You don't want to think about that. Like that is a choice to let that negative energy in, right? It is. And at the same time, we're human. And it has an effect to an extent. Why? Why does the black community come after people who think differently more than any other community? It feels like, at least in this country, nobody else does this. Why are we so hard on each other just for being true to ourselves when that's what we're preaching, isn't it? Kuhn, Uncle Tom, all the words that I can't even mention, why.
- [77:23]
B
What it really comes down to is that when you are unapologetically yourself and you're standing on values and principle and know that there's substance to the words that you're saying, when you, what you're inherently doing is holding up a mirror to the viewer. The reason why people in the black community get so mad at someone like you is because when you're unapologetic and you are speaking your mind and saying the truth and asking questions, they're sitting there like, well, I don't ask those questions. I'm not allowed to ask those questions. Why don't I ask those questions? You know what? Instead of me asking me about me, I'm just gonna attack you. Because you had the audacity to think outside the box. Because you had the audacity to go and be free in your mind. I thought I was the free one. How dare you? So they have to tear you down because it's like the whole. What is it? Crabs in a pot analogy where it's like they want to pull you back down to their lack of self security so that they feel. So they no longer feel lesser than. And it's an unfortunate reality because you're not trying to make anyone feel lesser than. You're wanting to see people be happy and to elevate and live a healthy lifestyle. But because people are afraid of that change and afraid of that internal realization, they resent you for it. And it's like when they say, the one that's the funniest to me is when people say you're a sellout. To be a sellout.
- [78:49]
A
Yes.
- [78:49]
B
Who owns you?
- [78:51]
A
Like, thank you.
- [78:52]
B
Who am I being bought out from? Like, you're telling me that the Democrat party owns you to that extent. Extent to where if I don't vote Democrat, that that means that I may sell out? What have they done to earn Your unwavering loyalty. Correct. Give you welfare. Make us dependent on the system that has destroyed the black nuclear family. The same party that is so insulting to the black intelligence that they think that the way to win us over in elections is to have Meg the Stallion, who can't even get a hit record these days to come up and gyrate on stage. That that's what, that's how they communicate to you. Because when these Democrats go to a room full of white people, they'll. They're still lying and talking more about feel good stuff, but they'll at least add a sprinkle of substance in there when they go to a predominantly black audience. You think Glorilla dancing is what's going to win over our votes. And it's a shame that it worked for so long.
- [79:46]
A
Yeah.
- [79:47]
B
It's like people and it's like the age of One thing that content creator and influencer culture has done is dilute people's obsession with celebrities to an extent. This is a hot take a little bit. But because so many people are famous and so many people are pulling different directions, I feel like what the left hasn't realized is people aren't as die hard dedicated to believing what a celebrity says and the way that they used to be.
- [80:11]
A
Yes.
- [80:11]
B
Because we've realized that a lot of these celebrities aren't even speaking on things, things that they actually believe in. So when Beyonce gets up and goes on stage, it's like, yes, Beyonce, go get your money. But you're not impacting the way that I vote. Let's be serious. And the left hasn't realized that they're.
- [80:29]
A
Hypocrites, these Hollywood stars. And I think that we have finally seen through that as well. And you can look at your paychecks, you can look at your communities, you can look at what's happening everywhere. And. And I just hope and pray that people put aside everything that they've been taught, which is hard.
- [80:49]
B
It is hard.
- [80:50]
A
Especially when there's a cost to it with family. And don't even look at it based on color, but humanity. And I know that that's maybe a pipe dream, but I do hope and pray that we can do that because we're better than dividing by race.
- [81:02]
B
Right.
- [81:02]
A
And unfortunately, our leaders have taught us that.
- [81:05]
B
It's almost like we're bringing back segregation. I mean, people are wanting black only graduations, Black really? It's not even just black only. A lot of times it's just anybody but white.
- [81:14]
A
Yeah.
- [81:14]
B
So non white graduations, non white libraries. And then like, it's. It's almost like the left is trying to low key, bring back slavery. But it's just so much more mental now, even to the point of, like, they refuse to give these schools the resources and the school choice that they need so that black kids can have a better education. When you see that 80% of black students can't read at a proficient level. I know black students can't read. I don't know. There was a TikTok trend that went on for a little bit of all these, like, black kids making, like, black youth making jokes about the fact that, like, they cannot read.
- [81:51]
A
I didn't see that.
- [81:52]
B
It was a brief trend. It's like if you got to be in the trenches of TikTok for it, low key. But there was a whole trend of black students talking about how they cannot read and them trying to read out loud and how their biggest nightmare was, like, the popular popcorn game where, like, you bounce around. Did you ever play popcorn as kid? That game? Basically, you're reading and then you see someone across the room. You're like, david, your turn. And then that person has to read the next paragraph. And it's like, people would be terrified. It's like, oh, no, there are too many syllables in this sentence. And them freaking out because now they have to read out loud. That is where we have gone back to. And this is what we're supposed to glorify. And we're supposed to just believe that instead of learning how to read.
- [82:33]
A
Yeah.
- [82:34]
B
And how to write, at least print, let alone cursive. We're instead supposed to care more about ethnic studies and care more about gender studies and care about all the different causes that they're pushing now in the school system. That's supposed to be more important. I really feel like they want us to be illiterate because the more illiterate we are, the less likely we are to research.
- [82:57]
A
Correct. And do what you did. Exactly.
- [82:59]
B
Exactly.
- [82:59]
A
But you speak of glorification. And I was. My fiance and I were working out this morning and we always put on that, like, 90s hip hop station. And I remember at the time thinking, oh, my gosh, this is so racy. What I would do for that hip hop to still be today's hip hop.
- [83:17]
B
Right.
- [83:17]
A
First of all, it was good. It was good and it was edgy at the time, but it was pretty clean, you know? And look at this now. It is. And I am no prude, okay? It is disgusting, it is vulgar, it is filthy, it is dangerous. And that is what is Promoted.
- [83:40]
B
Yeah.
- [83:41]
A
Like, how the heck did we get there? I mean, I know it wasn't overnight. Can that be turned? Can we convince our youth, in your opinion? You're around so many of these younger kids, this younger generation, that that is not the way and that you can still be cool and not have to talk like that sometimes dress like that, pull up your damn pants. Like, if people did the research and actually knew what that represented.
- [84:05]
B
I like that part to have.
- [84:07]
A
Hi, guys. I mean, you do you, but you don't even know what you are doing by wearing your saggy pants.
- [84:12]
B
Right.
- [84:13]
A
Google it. I am a glass half full person and an eternal optimist. I do feel like there is hope. What do you think we can do, like on an organic, granular level to continue to push these kids out of that comfort zone when it is risky and it is scary. And nobody knows that better than you based on what's happened just with your family.
- [84:39]
B
Wow. Well, this is gonna kind of contradict what I literally just said about how people do look at certain celebrities as they don't look at them as the beacon of truth as much as they used to. However, you can't deny the influence that certain entertainers and creators and people have. And a mission that I have been on, living in Los Angeles and being in a lot of these influencer spaces is I'm trying to get more people to speak out because it's a domino effect.
- [85:09]
A
It is. It's so cool to watch.
- [85:11]
B
It is because, like, for example, when Amber Rose, who I've been friends with for a while, and when we, when she reached out to me, I was like, girl, like, aren't you the slut walk girl, like, you're maga. I was baffled. And she sat down and she talked to me about like, how she has had a change of heart for years and so badly wanted to start speaking out about what she believe now when she spoke out about the rnc, let alone posting the photo with Trump that broke the Internet. If I had a dollar for every creator, influencer, celebrity, you name it, musician that started speaking out because they're like, wait, Amber spoke out and it wasn't the end of her career. Well, maybe I can now speak out. And these other tiktokers started speaking out and like being associated with Trump and with common sense and even if they're not necessarily conservative or full blown Republican, it's okay.
- [86:07]
A
It's common sense. Yes.
- [86:09]
B
They at least just want to see the slippery slope. Stop.
- [86:11]
A
Yes.
- [86:12]
B
And that ripple effect has been huge. So I'm trying to get more people to speak out at that level because I know the domino effect and what I want more people to do. And what I've been seeing from, you know, the average young person is as the domino effect keeps going, more people are jumping out and saying it. And it's something that I knew was possible, but I thought it was gonna be more far fetched than it ended up being. It's here because when I very first moved to LA about two and a half years ago, my first week there, I got invited to one of like the biggest tiktokers party that he was having for his birthday. And I was really shocked because I thought I was gonna go there and anyone who knew me was gonna hate me. I had so many people come up to me and my friend CJ Pearson saying that they loved our work so much and Emily Saves America as well, saying how we say everything that they wish they could say but they're not allowed to because they think they're going to lose their contracts, they're going to lose their brand deals, they're going to get canceled. And so many people have reached out to me in the Hollywood space saying that they want to speak out. And it's now fun to see how some of the ones who DM'd me or came up to me and said a couple years ago they wish they could speak out. These days they have been speaking out and it's usually they'll test the waters. Let's say someone that's outspoken goes and makes a post like Brittany Aldean will say something that is more right leaning. And then all these people start sharing it to their stories. So before they make their own video, their own statement, they'll subtly like and see, like, okay, I liked it. Is anyone gonna call me out, okay, share this in my story. Are people going to agree? And then they see all these people reach out. They're like, we're so grateful that you think this because I thought this too and I just didn't want to think I was crazy.
- [87:49]
A
Yes, there's legitimate fear.
- [87:51]
B
There's fear.
- [87:52]
A
And when you have your livelihood on the line, say you're a little bit older and you have family and kids and you're the breadwinner and you know you will be. I mean, that's what happened to me. Like, it's real. And so I do have sympathy, empathy, concern for these people because it is real. And you do have to weigh the risk. And timing is everything. But you are so right that it does. Wait, no pun. Intended. You're so right. Right, right. You're so correct that when one does it, others come.
- [88:24]
B
Yeah.
- [88:24]
A
And by the way, I'm not trying to convince you to think a certain way.
- [88:27]
B
Right.
- [88:28]
A
I'm trying to. You're asking me. So I'm gonna tell you why I feel this way. And which, in my opinion, happens to be common sense, that there should never be boys and girls. Sports, for example. And the more that people speak up, you see a trend right now with more young women taking a knee and not getting on that podium next to a biological male who has taken the spot of a young girl or not competing at all, which is wrong. And that breaks my heart. They shouldn't have to sacrifice their life's work because the adults in the room have fear. But don't get me started on that. I do believe once we are here, it is our responsibility to keep speaking. And I love that. I love what happened to you when you were in Israel. I mean, most importantly. Right? And for people to say what they said to you, that you are what made them smile. I mean, what a gift. I hope you now know why you're on this earth. Like, I've had that revelation over the past couple of years of devastation and, like, sadness and fear and anger. And then I'm like, okay, I know why I'm on this earth now. I'm a mother to these three. They're not babies anymore. They're like 19 to 23, still your babies. They're still my babies forever. I'm on this earth because of those three. To try to lead them and show them what to do and what not to do. I've given them good examples in both. And to use this big mouth of mine because I know it's bigger than me and to no longer live in fear. I am just envious that I didn't get there as soon as you did. It's a different time. It's fine. This was my journey. Your journey is so cool to watch. And I feel like it's awesome because you're realizing it while you're in it, not after it's over. Like, that is a blessing. And I'd love to know what you're most proud of because you've done so much already, personally and professionally. What are you most proud of? Can you quantify that? Because there's probably a lot.
- [90:27]
B
What am I most proud of? I would say there were moments where it made every. It made every sense for me to not do what I did. Actually, let me word this better. I would Say what I'm most proud of. There were moments where I should have been terrified that I wasn't. For example, 90 days after October 7th. I actually tried to go the week after, but it didn't work out logistically. But 90 days after October 7th because. And just for a little context on that, too, before I get into that, is I started speaking out about anti Semitism in June of 2023, and it was because I went on, literally just vacation to Israel to go see the holy site, the Holy Land. It's an incredible place. Every Christian should go, especially. And I went there, and I had the time of my life. The nightlife, the food, the wine, everything was amazing. The people were outstanding. And here I was, having the time of my life. I post on Twitter that I was there, and I got so much hate just for being there. And that's when I realized, like, how deep the tropes of antisemitism still were. I didn't even know antisemitism was a thing. So I had just started my Walk with Me series right after leaving Israel, and I was like, you know what? What are my first ones is going to be about how anti Semitism is ghetto? Because I'm like, a lot of you just sound broke, bitter, and jealous. And that's what it comes down to. So I started speaking out. Then when October 7th happened, I was baffled by how within maybe 20 hours of everything going down, the entire media narrative had flipped. So I really doubled and quadrupled down on the fact, like, no, like, this was one of the worst terrorism attacks of our lifetime. Like, this was horrible. How could you sit here and be okay with this? So I started speaking out more and more, and I really accidentally became this activist against antisemitism and for Israel, and it just organically happened that way. So when it got to, like, December of 2023, and I just had this weird calling to go there, it made no sense for me to go back to Israel. I had literally just been there months before. They're in a war now. It made no sense for me to go. But I kept having, like, dreams about going, especially after I almost went the week after, because there was an opportunity to go and I wanted to go see, improve to people, because everyone kept being like, they don't even like you in Israel. October 7th. That didn't even happen. All these different narratives that people were saying. And I'm like, you know what? I really just want to go and stand on business and show people what it's like there. So I was Talking to my friend Justine Brooke Marais about it. And she goes, well, I'm actually going on a solidarity trip in two weeks or in 10 days, actually. I can see if there's room for you. And I was like, sure. Tell me why there was room for one more person to go on that trip. So seven days after she got the yes for me to go, I'm on a flight, and I go to Israel, and I go to the Gaza Strip. I am on the Gaza envelope. Walking around, you could still smell the burning. You can still. You can still feel the pain there. And it made. And going back to your original question, what I'm most proud of. I am proud that I was that close to danger, the closest to danger that I've ever been. And I trusted that God had me covered, and I did not have a moment of fear while I was there, because I knew I was covered in the blood of Jesus, and that was all I needed.
- [93:59]
A
Oh, my goodness. And you stayed and you kept going and you shared.
- [94:04]
B
Yeah, I did. And I made a whole little. If anyone's curious to watch that, I. It's called 100 Days After October 7th. It's on prageru.com and I hired a videographer while I was there, and he went. And he's an IDF soldier, and he went there with me and experienced, like, the whole thing. And I documented it. And shout out to Yehuda, who was the videographer, because I promised him while we were there. I'm like, it makes no sense for you to be here either. I was like. And he told me that the one thing he wanted for me in exchange was that if he proposed to his girlfriend, I would go to the wedding. And he is now engaged. No way. And I'm going back in August for his wedding. So shout out to Yehuda.
- [94:42]
A
Awesome. So you found him there.
- [94:44]
B
Yeah.
- [94:44]
A
And he followed you around and did it. And.
- [94:46]
B
Yeah. 100 days after October 7th. I'm really proud of that whole project.
- [94:53]
A
I hope that you can do journal. Do you take it do diary or. I guess your social media is kind of a journal. That's the way I look at mine.
- [95:00]
B
In a lot of ways. And I've said that to someone before, and they thought I was insane. But, like, my social media kind of is a journal. I just put my thoughts out there. But I do. I don't like, sit and write down, even though I should. I think that's an extremely healthy exercise. I do just, like, write out notes to myself all the time because it's the notes end up being ideas that I put into videos.
- [95:22]
A
Yeah.
- [95:22]
B
So, like, sometimes I'll, like, be like, oh, wasn't I thinking about this one day? And I'll just go take that note and put it into a video. So kind of.
- [95:30]
A
Yeah, I hope so. Do more of that.
- [95:32]
B
Yeah.
- [95:33]
A
Because the story that you're going to continue to tell and, you know, I don't know, you're maybe a baby someday. Your nephews, kids, daughters, whatever, they need to know. They need to see and hear every single thing that you have done. Not just publicly, in my opinion. I'm not telling you what to do, but there's so much beauty there and so much strength, but privately as well. And I hope that you can think back to that week of Christmas in 2020 and looking in that mirror for that eternity 10 minutes. And look. Look what you did. Like, look what you've done since that low, low point. I don't even know you to that level, but I'm so proud of you and so grateful because we need you. We need more people like you. And just keep inspiring and you're gonna make me cry again. I'm just very grateful for the courage that people like you choose to have. It would have been easier. I say this all the time. Easier and safer and smarter and cheaper and all the things to stay quiet. And you chose to push through. So thank you. God bless you.
- [96:44]
B
God bless you, Sage.