Kirk Cameron | The Sage Steele Show

Summary

The Sage Steele Show: Featuring Kirk Cameron

Release Date: June 5, 2025
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Kirk Cameron

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1. Introduction and Personal Reflections

Sage Steele opens the episode by expressing her admiration for Kirk Cameron, recalling his fame as a teen heartthrob from the "Growing Pains" era. She highlights Cameron's evolution into a vocal and authentic individual who shares deep personal and spiritual insights.

• Sage Steele [00:00]: “Every single time I get to tape one of my shows, I leave kind of in awe of the guest. And this time was no exception...”

2. Light-Hearted Moments: The Sock Conversation

The conversation begins with a humorous exchange about Kirk Cameron's socks, showcasing his down-to-earth personality and setting a relaxed tone for the episode.

• Kirk Cameron [01:18]: “She was like, I could just keep them on, but it sounds like I need to take them off.”
• Sage Steele [04:13]: “Bacon and eggs are over easy or just sunny side up. That just made my day.”

3. Personal Tragedy and Phil Robertson’s Impact

Kirk shares an emotional story about the passing of Phil Robertson, a friend and fellow personality from "Duck Dynasty." He recounts Phil's unwavering faith and authentic character, emphasizing the profound effect Phil had on him and the community.

• Kirk Cameron [07:12]: “Phil was not playing a part on Duck Dynasty. Phil never plays a part... He just knows that it was a platform that could advance the message...”
• Kirk Cameron [11:49]: “...this is a really cool, really beautiful perspective.”

4. Faith Journey and Overcoming Atheism

Kirk delves into his transformation from atheism to Christianity at the age of 17½. He discusses the pivotal moments and influences that led him to embrace faith, including his interactions with Phil Robertson and the profound personal experiences that solidified his belief.

• Kirk Cameron [25:39]: “I became a Christian in 1987. I was 17 years old...”
• Kirk Cameron [28:34]: “I knew I had to die, and I know that I will need forgiveness, and I want it.”

5. Family Life: Marriage and Parenting

Kirk reflects on his 35-year marriage to Chelsea, highlighting their shared values, adoption of four children, and the surprise addition of two biological children. He emphasizes the strength of their relationship, rooted in faith and mutual understanding.

• Kirk Cameron [36:57]: “Chelsea was a model in New York City... We started an off-screen romance that led to me proposing, and then six months later we got married.”
• Kirk Cameron [58:34]: “We adopted four kids in a row, one year after the other...”

6. Embracing Diversity through Adoption

Kirk discusses his family's diverse makeup, with four of their six children being biracial. He shares anecdotes about societal perceptions and the importance of embracing all backgrounds within a loving family structure.

• Sage Steele [61:18]: “Your oldest daughter's biracial. Right? Is she?”
• Kirk Cameron [62:23]: “...we wanted to adopt children because we knew that they needed a home...”

7. Marriage Philosophy and Parenting

The conversation shifts to Kirk's views on marriage, emphasizing communication, forgiveness, and shared faith as pillars of a strong relationship. He offers insights into maintaining lasting connections with his family and the importance of guiding children with biblical values.

• Kirk Cameron [42:18]: “My marriage is still together today because I have an angel of a wife. And I've given her many opportunities to hone her skill of forgiveness.”
• Kirk Cameron [44:32]: “A real leader and a good man, a good woman, is someone who is overwhelmed with gratitude and lives a life of service.”

8. Addressing Societal Issues: Marriage and Education

Kirk critiques modern societal trends, particularly the delay of marriage and the priorities of higher education. He advocates for earlier commitment in relationships and underscores the role of Christian values in education and societal stability.

• Kirk Cameron [47:32]: “We have pushed marriage off so far that we have created a whole slew of collateral problems...”
• Kirk Cameron [80:48]: “Every civil government is based on some religion or philosophy of life... the education of that nation will propagate the religion of that nation.”

9. Current Projects and Future Endeavors

Kirk shares his excitement about his latest projects, including a children's show titled "Iggy and Mr. Kirk" and a new podcast involving his family. These initiatives aim to instill biblical values and address contemporary cultural issues through engaging media.

• Kirk Cameron [76:57]: “It's a new Mr. Rogers for this generation's families... It teaches biblical values to support what parents want rather than undermine it.”
• Kirk Cameron [83:40]: “It's a new podcast where I'm able to work with my son as my director...”

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Sage and Kirk wrap up the episode by emphasizing the importance of faith, family, and standing up for one's beliefs despite societal pressures. Kirk encourages listeners to remain steadfast in their values and contribute positively to the next generation.

• Kirk Cameron [85:47]: “Do what's right over the long haul and you'll be blessed.”
• Sage Steele [83:09]: “That is so cool. Thank you so much.”

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sage Steele [00:00]: “Everyone has a whole big world out there that’s not just sports, and Sage wants to talk about all of it.”
• Kirk Cameron [11:56]: “He said, I’ve gone to be with the Almighty. And he's saying, this is the greatest day of my life.”
• Kirk Cameron [20:06]: “The peace of God which passes all understanding, will guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus.”
• Kirk Cameron [36:42]: “...someone who's been not afraid to share your opinions, even when they are contrary to the cultural current...”
• Kirk Cameron [55:01]: “We gotta teach our kids this. And that's why it's so important that we stay in relationship with our children.”
• Sage Steele [69:07]: “It is a choice to continue with this messaging which we so desperately need...”

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Key Themes and Insights

1. Authenticity and Faith: Kirk Cameron emphasizes living an authentic life grounded in Christian faith, inspired by Phil Robertson's unwavering beliefs.
2. Transformation and Personal Growth: Transitioning from atheism to Christianity played a pivotal role in Kirk's personal and professional life.
3. Family and Diversity: Adoption and embracing a diverse family structure highlight the importance of unconditional love and acceptance.
4. Societal Critique: Discussions on the postponement of marriage and the emphasis on higher education reflect Kirk's concerns about modern societal trends.
5. Educational Initiatives: Emphasizing the role of faith-based education in maintaining societal values and stability.
6. Media as a Tool for Values: Launching family-oriented projects like "Iggy and Mr. Kirk" and a new podcast to instill biblical values and address current cultural issues.
7. Resilience and Standing Up for Beliefs: Encouraging listeners to remain steadfast in their values despite societal pressures and challenges.

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This episode of The Sage Steele Show offers an in-depth look into Kirk Cameron's life journey, his steadfast faith, and his commitment to family and societal values. Through candid conversations, personal anecdotes, and insightful reflections, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of Cameron's perspectives on faith, family, and the challenges of modern society.

Transcript

[Sage Steele]

Every single time I get to tape one of my shows, I leave kind of in awe of the guest. And this time was no exception, for sure. I mean, who didn't love Kirk Cameron? If you're of my generation back in the day, Teen heartthrob. There is so much more to this guy, which I think many people have realized over the last several years, where he's been quite outspoken. But we began the show with a real emotional explanation of why the death of someone close to him, someone that, you know, has affected him so much. From there, we went deep about his family. His six children, four of whom are adopted, becoming a grandpa for the first time. And producer Dave is here with me. How about that story about how he helped bring his family inadvertently to Christianity? Right? So insane. And this is in the middle of when he was starring on Growing Pain. So from all those personal stories to also going kind of deep about what he believes is dividing America, trust me when I say you don't want to miss this episode of the Sage Steel show, starring Kirk Cameron. Enjoy. Are you doing this? Are you. Are you keeping those on?

[Kirk Cameron]

She's. This is no joke. She's like. She was like, I. I thought you were being serious. Like, I could just keep them on, but it sounds like I need take them off.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, I might judge you a little.

[Kirk Cameron]

You might judge.

[Sage Steele]

I might judge you a little. I mean, if you're okay being judged, it's fine.

[Kirk Cameron]

You're going to laugh at my socks, though.

[Sage Steele]

Really? Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

And I wasn't planning to do this. You're going to laugh at my socks?

[Sage Steele]

This is amazing.

[Kirk Cameron]

Ask me about them until we roll the cameras.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, how about I. How about I don't look until you give me permission?

[Kirk Cameron]

Are we getting close to being ready?

[Sage Steele]

Are we rolling on all three? Kirk Cameron. We're always rolling. I mean, of all people, you know that. We're always rolling. Okay, tell me when I'm allowed to look at your feed.

[Kirk Cameron]

You're good. I'm ready when you are.

[Sage Steele]

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[Kirk Cameron]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Can you get a close up of this? Somehow this just made those also look like red lips, which is awkward. It's bacon.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's.

[Sage Steele]

Bacon and eggs are over easy or just sunny side up. That just made my day. So this is the first person who does not need my socks.

[Kirk Cameron]

No, no, I, I'm like, I'm BYOs. Bring your own socks. Every time.

[Sage Steele]

Even though you had no idea that this was my thing.

[Kirk Cameron]

No, I, I didn't. Which is I've got other socks that are like fly fishing socks and I think I've got some rooster socks as well. Because I really like chickens. I love to go fishing with my son. I have chickens in my backyard. We have backyard chickens because we, we sort of, we are after the egg apocalypse a few months ago and there were no chicken eggs.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

We decided to, to, you know, not be dependent on the grocery store so we have chickens in the backyard, and. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So that's a new thing.

[Kirk Cameron]

You're a new chicken farmer.

[Sage Steele]

New farmer.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know, I've renewed my. I've renewed my inner chicken farmer because we had them when we had. We were homeschooling our kids.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

So we had, like, 30 chickens in the backyard, and the kids would run down there and grab the eggs every morning. And it's. It's been really fun now that I have a granddaughter to build another coop and get everything ready so that when she can walk, she can walk. Walk right in there and grab the eggs.

[Sage Steele]

How cool is that?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, we're really, really excited.

[Sage Steele]

Are you okay? I want to get into the grandfather thing. That's craziness. But, like, you. You cook. I mean, you do things like this.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, I do. I cook a lot. Yeah. My wife cooks a lot. We cook a lot. We have. Because all of our kids have grown and left the house in California. They all moved to different states because California is so expensive. Well, we ended up moving to Tennessee to be with them. And now we have Sunday night dinners with all of the kids and our granddaughter again, even though we're all from California here in Tennessee. And so we have lots of cooking going on at the house. In fact, I'm right in the middle of making a lot of venison sausage.

[Sage Steele]

Where'd you get the venison?

[Kirk Cameron]

From the deer that we killed in Louisiana.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, in Louisiana.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. We have some friends there. We go duck hunting all the time.

[Sage Steele]

Amazing.

[Kirk Cameron]

The chief duck hunter that we go with just went to be with Jesus a couple days ago. Oh. And I'm going to his funeral tomorrow.

[Sage Steele]

That was a shock. I. I mean, and I guess. How old was he?

[Kirk Cameron]

I think 79. I read. I think he was 79.

[Sage Steele]

Not. Not young.

[Kirk Cameron]

No, no.

[Sage Steele]

My dad.

[Kirk Cameron]

My dad is. Is 80 years old.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

And how did you. How did that affect you? How did the news affect you?

[Sage Steele]

Not. I guess not. I'm not surprised by much anymore. What does that say about me? Did you know Phil? I did not know Phil. Of course I knew of him. And what was the most interesting to me is. Was to see the diversity of people who expressed condolences, who were so sad about his passing.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I guess I didn't realize that he affected so many. Why do you think that is?

[Kirk Cameron]

Phil. If I could pick one word that would describe Phil to me, I like the word authentic. Phil was not playing a part on Duck Dynasty. Phil never plays a part. In fact, I've been to his house probably every Christmas time for the last eight years because we go duck hunting with my three boys there. And we were just there this last Christmas and Phil was, was very sick. And one of the cool. I gotta tell you the coolest story. Oh, by the way. So he lives in this double wide trailer. And he was there back in the middle of, of Duck Dynasty. And, and I got invited to come over there for a squirrel casserole dinner by Ms. K. And I'm thinking, like, this is the craziest thing ever. But I wanted to be a good dad and take my boys there because they were big fans of Duck Dynasty. And as we're driving through the woods of Louisiana way in the back country, I'm thinking, like, I'm going to start hearing banjos any moment here. This is going to be like a scene out of Deliverance. This is scary. And we finally pull up and the dogs are barking in the double wide trailer. And I'm thinking, where's the star of Duck Dynasty Live? And they're like, dad, that's his house. That's his house. I'm like, are you serious? It's this trailer like up on like Jackson in the woods. And he's in there sitting in his big recliner, didn't have socks on, but it was his bare feet in a white tank top, camo pants, bandana around his head, an AK47 hanging from the mantle. And he had just stacks of dictionaries, thesauruses, encyclopedias and Bibles and, and a spit can for his chew. And he's got a remote in his hand watching Fox News.

[Sage Steele]

No.

[Kirk Cameron]

And I walked in the front door and he's just got, he's kind of eyeing me like this, going, who's this yuppie from California that just came into my house? You know, But I was with Ms. K. So he, you know, and he's like, well, Phil, we got company. And, and I'm looking and the place is just packed with all kinds of paraphernalia from Duck Dynasty and everything else. And he came over and he just started calling me Cameron and listening to, you know, things I was trying to say. He was a man of few words. And then eventually he just started sharing the gospel with me. Because what mattered to him was that I had my sins forgiven, that I knew who Jesus was and I was on my way to heaven. Far as he knew, I was just some crackpot from California, some actor from the land of fruits and nuts. And if there's anything that he wanted, it was to influence me for the Gospel. And that was. That was just Phil. It wasn't a character he was playing, and he'd been consistent every single time. Can I share one more quick story, please? It's my last experience with Phil. I went there this last Christmas time to go duck hunting with my son and with my daughter's boyfriend. And he was a big fan of Phil Robertson's podcast called Unashamed. And it has helped him in his faith because he never grew up with a dad. And he looked up to Phil. And I said, well, come with me. We'll go duck hunting, and maybe we'll get to talk to Phil for a little bit. So when we got there, I knew we were going to be on the river. And one of Phil's favorite things to do is baptize new believers. And I talked to this young man and I said, hey, listen, I know you're really growing in your faith. I said, have you ever thought about baptism? And he said, yeah. He says, man, I would. And he'd even been talking to my daughter about how cool it would be if somehow Phil, you know, baptized him. But he never thought it was possible. So I called and we set it up, and I drove him over there, right outside of Phil's house, and his son Jase and him baptized this young man in the river, freezing cold, in camo waders. And Phil presided over it because he was very sick. He couldn't get in the water. While Jase took this man's profession of faith, dunked him in the water, came out tears streaming down his face. It was like the sky parted. And he came out of that thing like a new man. And Phil was there just with him and presiding over the whole thing for, like an hour. It was the coolest thing. And I remember he just said to me, he said, cameron, he said, I'm sick. I'm sick. And we talked for a little bit, and he kind of went back to his. To his room. And then I got the news. And so I'm going to be driving eight hours there tomorrow to go to his funeral, to be there with his family.

[Sage Steele]

In that moment when he said, I'm sick, I mean, you knew that. But for him to say it, yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

He'S not the kind of guy who wants to, you know, admit that kind of thing. He just powers through it, you know, like, hey, you know, just put your shoulders back and keep moving forward. He's a man of the land, of the river. I mean, he's a rough guy. I mean, he reminds you of a John the Baptist kind of Guy, you know, he just. He's not a victim of anything. And in fact, he would tell you if he could be here. I told you. I told you this day was coming. We've all got an appointment on the calendar, and none of us are going to be late for it. He said, I've gone to be with the Almighty. And he's saying, this is the greatest day of my life. I've finally been set free from a body that's decaying. My heart has been cleansed, and I'm in the presence of Jesus.

[Sage Steele]

Did you feel that that was going to be the last time you saw him?

[Kirk Cameron]

And I apologize for getting so emotional about this. I really haven't talked to anybody about it. I've just been at home thinking about it. And I didn't even know Phil that well. Kind of. Kind of a light friendship. But I just have so much respect for him. And his authenticity demonstrated that he didn't. He didn't care about being on television or being a celebrity. He just knew that it was a platform that could advance the message, that would transform people's lives and families. And so he tolerated the media. Yeah. And I just appreciate. I appreciate him well.

[Sage Steele]

And for not changing.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And that Double Wide is proof. Right. What have many things.

[Kirk Cameron]

Why didn't you ever get a bigger house? I mean, I'm sure you could afford it. He said, why would I want a bigger house? He says, how many toilets does a man need? He said, how big do you want your bed to be? I just have to. I'd have. I'd have to. Take me longer to catch my wife. As I was chasing her around the house. He's like, why does a man need a bigger house? Because the only thing that's changed since Duck Dynasty is we have a. We have a better menu.

[Sage Steele]

Food's a little better. Do you think he understood the effect he had on so many.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know, Phil didn't own a cell phone. Didn't have one. Didn't have a computer, didn't have a cell phone. And so if you needed. If you wanted to get a hold of Phil, you'd need to get a hold of one of his sons or an assistant. And that's what I did. I'd always talk to him through an assistant. And so Phil wasn't looking at Instagram likes. He wasn't under. He wasn't cognizant of subscriptions on YouTube. And so the effect that he had on people, I think he knew, and that's why he did the show. And for that he was grateful, but it wouldn't have mattered to him. He would have lived the same life, had the same conversations, and been about the same things, whether it was 10 people or 10 million people.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Even your daughter's boyfriend, though.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Like, right there. He didn't know that young man. And he spent, you said, an hour with him.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

During the baptism. Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

Together with his son Jace. And, you know, it was really cool, too, was that Phil, probably five years ago, would have had that conversation with my daughter's boyfriend. But because of his sickness, I believe his son Jace had the conversation and explained that what you're asking me to do, baptize you, he said, do you understand it? And he said, well, yeah. He said, you know, a lot of people think this is just a kind of. A. Kind of the next step in your. In your spiritual journey as a Christian is that you sort of like, you know, put the stamp of authenticity on this profession of faith and let's go get wet. And he said, no, no, that's not what it is. And that's why many people, they waffle and they waver. And he said, do you understand that we're going down there to bury an old man? And I kind of looked at him, and I was like, man, Chase, where are you going with this? And he's like, a baptism is a funeral. Do you understand that when Jesus died and was buried, you were united with him in burial, and you have been crucified with Christ, the Bible says, and you no longer live. You see, we're going down there to bury somebody. Tell me who we're going to bury. And he began to talk about the former person that was not walking with God, that wasn't thinking about others before himself, but was controlled by desires of the flesh. And that's the man that he wanted to bury so that he could be raised a new man. And he said, all right, let's. Let's go have the funeral. And then they went down there and they got mar. And they got baptized. It was right. It was a whole beautiful perspective. And Jay said that while Phil watched the whole time. And I could just imagine how proud he was of his son in that moment, that it was like, my son got it. He understands it.

[Sage Steele]

That's beautiful.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And now what do you do with that?

[Kirk Cameron]

What do I do with that?

[Sage Steele]

What do you do? Because you are still having an influence every single day, and the evolution of your career has been incredible to watch for so many of us, you know. But honestly, I think you have a choice we all have choices. So you take what Phil taught you and apply it in your life.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know, Phil didn't know that I was Kirk Cameron. I was the Christian. I was the guy left behind. I was the guy in Fireproof. He'd never, he'd never seen any of that stuff. So he just, I was just a guy who needed to know about Jesus. And so he, he took a napkin when I, when he first met me and he said, cameron, what, what year is it? And I was like, 2018. And he's like, and he writes it down, he says, it's been 2018 years since something happened. Do you know what it is? I was like, I think Jesus was born. He's like, that's right. And then he was crucified on a cross and he was buried. And then he rose from the grave and he ascended into heaven and he's coming back and, and he said, tell me about your sins. They can be forgiven, right? That he didn't know. I'm like, no, no, I'm the guy that says that to other people. I'm the. Yeah, but he didn't know. And I was like so blown away by his faithfulness to the call to share the gospel. And, and so I just remember how single minded and focused and committed he was. And one of my favorite things he's always said is he says, cameron, we're all headed for a six foot hole. And through the gospel, not only can you have your sins forgiven, but you can be raised from the dead. And he said, if there's any other way out of that grave, I want to hear about it. And I was just like, no, that's it. And, and, and he said, you know, the world is starving for one thing that it'll never find. And that's peace of mind. He said, it is the most valuable of all commodities, peace of mind. And I've got it. And I know that's how he died. His assistant Dan told me that he died at peace in his sleep. And the, the lights were flickering upstairs, he fell asleep and the Almighty took him.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, peace of mind. Gosh, that's, that's hashtag goals, isn't it? What we all want, right? Do you have it?

[Kirk Cameron]

So you know that I am a Christian. And so, you know, I get up every morning and part of my rhythms are to make the most delicious pot of coffee for my wife that I can with lots of half and half piled high with whipped cream. And I sit, I sit by my, my chair in my socks, I'll admit, is Comfortable. And I sit down to read the Scriptures. And the Scriptures say, there's a recipe for peace of mind. And I've tried it, and it works. In Philippians, chapter 4, verses 4 through 6, it says, Be anxious about nothing, but pray about everything with prayer and supplication. Let your requests be made known to God with thanksgiving. And then the peace of God which guards your heart and mind. I'm sorry. The peace of God which passes all understanding, will guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus. So peace of mind and peace of heart can be yours if you turn your heart to God rather than worrying about things. And give thanks for everything, knowing that he's working it together for your good. And that kind of peace is. Is what I have when I'm trusting God. I can. I can. I can get my sights off of the Lord and I can fall into worry and doubt and anxiety and all those kinds of things just like anybody else. You know, I've got a friend whose wife was just diagnosed with colon cancer. She thought it was ovarian cancer. They're finding more fluid. And another friend whose dear wife just had a double heart and liver transplant.

[Sage Steele]

What?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. And she has a congenital heart disease, and she's lived very, very long. And now it's come time to replace both organs. And you can see how people are dealing with circumstances that just defy our understanding. And in the midst of those things, I believe that we can experience peace of heart and peace of mind because there's a God who loves us, and.

[Sage Steele]

It is a choice. And I've had these conversations with my kids, too. And I remember being in college, three college age kids, and being in college and questioning and moving away a little bit. And then hopefully I'll come back to it, but there are questions I can't answer for sure. You could probably do a much better job than I could.

[Kirk Cameron]

You too. Yeah, I got my list.

[Sage Steele]

I know, but the only thing I know to say is faith is believing when you don't know where that road's gonna lead you, you know, and that's way too vague for a lot of people, and I do understand that, but what do you tell people who. Yeah, like your friends who have reason to be heartbroken, frustrated, maybe even say, really God?

[Kirk Cameron]

Mm.

[Sage Steele]

What's your point with all this?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

What do we tell them?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, well, there's many times like that where we have financial insecurity. How am I gonna pay my bills? You know, I mean, I'm an actor. I am an artist. And so we're Always between jobs. I mean, this could be it. I'm getting older and uglier by the day, and so pretty soon no one's gonna want to see me on camera. And so I think, what's my other skill? And maybe I could be a chicken farmer. Who knows?

[Sage Steele]

You're already mastering that.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. And then there's health insecurity, and then there's relational insecurity. Right. So we don't know what's going to come down the pike to us. My crystal ball broke. And so I'm constantly just waiting to see what happens. But what I do know for sure is that even though we can't know the future, we can know the one who holds the future. And he makes promises. He says that he's working all things together for good, for those who love him and who've been called according to his purpose. So, you know, if I really thought, like I used to as an atheist, that the world was just random and I am the result of a reproductive process that never really had me in mind, but was just, you know, the. The offspring of the strongest and the fittest, I. I could just fall into depression and despair if. If things don't work out for me. But I can look back to the cross of Christ. I can look back to the death of Phil Robertson. I could look back to four years of the Biden administration. I could look back to all kinds of dreams I had that never came true. And I can say God used it all for good. Jesus bled and died on the cross as an innocent man, victim of treachery and murder, and his own religious team turned their back on him. And yet it was that that paid the cost for the redemption of the world. And every dream I had that didn't come true made room and space for me to meet my wife, Chelsea, and to come to know peace and happiness and have a career that I never dreamed of. And so I know from the past that God is in the present and he'll take care of the future.

[Sage Steele]

What year did you become a Christian?

[Kirk Cameron]

1987. I was 17 years old.

[Sage Steele]

You were on Growing Pains, right in.

[Kirk Cameron]

The middle of Growing Pains. Yeah, I was right at the peak of its popularity. I was 17 and a half. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You were an atheist before?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, Atheist growing up. Never went to church. Didn't believe in God. I thought that the people who did were just faking it for their kids to keep Santa Claus alive and the Tooth Fairy and God. And then everything changed when I was about 17 and a half years old. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Why?

[Kirk Cameron]

How how there was a really cute girl who invited me to on a date. There's always a cute girl involved in the picture, you know, and they're good and bad, right? Like, Eve was a great idea, but also she was trouble. And so, you know, girls can get you in trouble, and they can also be the best thing that ever happened to you. My wife Chelsea, certainly was the best of the best. But there was this girl who was really cute, and I asked if I could see her one weekend. She invited me to church. Didn't know that I was an atheist, and I didn't know how to act at church. But I also knew I was an actor, and so I could fake it. And so I just watched everybody else and I just said, well, while in Rome, you know, I closed my eyes during the prayers and everything, and I heard the message that Phil Robertson committed his life to. It was the good news that there was a God who made me on purpose, for a purpose that I could be changed and healed on the inside. I could be set free of my guilt and shame of my past, and I could be given the gift of eternal life. And so I asked this girl's father many questions, and he gave me a great little book called More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell. I read it, and another one, Evidence that Demands a Verdict. And I began reading the Bible and going to another church with another friend and became persuaded that it took more faith for me to continue believing atheism than it did for me to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so I said, you know what? I'm about the truth, and I've got to follow the evidence where it leads. And so I can't be an atheist anymore. It's just too overwhelming. I've got a million questions that I can't answer. Like, what about, you know, I don't know how old the earth is, and I don't know what's going on with the Mormons or the Muslims or whether or not women should be preachers and what Bible version to use. But I know I've got to die, and I know that I will need forgiveness, and I want it. And if God went to great lengths to offer it to me, I'd be a fool not to accept.

[Sage Steele]

At 17 and a half, though, that's incredible to me.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know why I was thinking about these ultimate things? Because I was on the set with little children who were dying of cancer and came to meet me and the cast of Growing Pains as part of their wish for their Make a Wish trip or Their starlight trip. And so I was watching six year olds die. I was seeing nine year olds whose parents were just weeping because their child probably didn't have much more to live. And I knew at 17 that I could pull out into traffic, get hit by a drunk driver and be standing on the brink of eternity just like that. One of my favorite voices of the past is a preacher named Charles Spurgeon, an English preacher of the 19th century. And he said a man has helped to live by remembering that he must die. And if we think about the funeral and we think about eternity, we remember that life is short. Eternity is very, very long. And what I do here, if it determines eternity, there's nothing worth half assing it now, pardon my French, or not committing to what's right now. And I don't want to make that mistake.

[Sage Steele]

They talk about that dash all the time. And how are you going to live it? It is a choice, but I just think it's profound that at 17 and a half years old you were able to see that most are older, everybody certainly. But like I was saying, with my experience, I was, I always believed, but it definitely took much longer for me to really go deep. It's one thing to listen to what your parents say and go to church because you have to every Sunday and do the okay, fine. And then it's a choice later. What did your parents say about what when you at seventeen and a half said, wait a minute, there's a lot more out there. You taught me nothing.

[Kirk Cameron]

So. So this is a really cool part of the story as well. And that is at that time when this pretty girl invited me to meet her at. A pretty girl.

[Sage Steele]

That's not Chelsea.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's not Chelsea.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Kirk Cameron]

At that time my parents had separated. Their marriage was on the rocks and on the brink of a divorce. My mom had moved out of the house. She actually wrote a whole book about this called A Full House of Growing Pains.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Kirk Cameron]

Referencing my sister Candace on Full House, me on Growing Pains. She had moved out and my dad was in a deep depression. I start going to church simply because I wanted to find out about Jesus and God and all of these questions getting answered. And when I started going to church, my dad started coming with me because he was told by a friend that it would be good for our relationship and it might give him some peace in the midst of my parents breakup. And so he brought my three little sisters with him and me to church, including Candice, none of which had ever gone to church. And when my mom found out that her husband and four children were now going to church, she said, wait a minute. I've always wanted us to go to church. I went to church as a little girl and I wanted to do this since we got married and had kids. But you never wanted to. You're not going to take them without me. So she comes with them and me, and all of a sudden there's healing that takes place in their marriage. And then my sisters come to faith. My mom says, you know, this is what I've always wanted. And it healed their marriage. They got back together.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Kirk Cameron]

And I got a chance to even baptize my own father.

[Sage Steele]

Stop.

[Kirk Cameron]

About 10, 15 years later. So it was just. I'm so grateful. God has been so kind.

[Sage Steele]

That is beautiful.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

To go from.

[Kirk Cameron]

How did you find, by the way? We never talked about this, and I don't think I've ever shared any of these stories on any other one's show before. How did you pull this out? I know what it is. It's the socks. It's the secret of the socks.

[Sage Steele]

Well, I don't know. The key is, you wouldn't take my socks. I mean, these aren't worthy of you. You brought your own incredible socks. So I say this is on you for opening up to. But this is so beautiful. And I think there's so many lessons in this for people who are struggling. We all are struggling in some of our own ways, right?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

But to see an entire family brought together and healed, that. That is God.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. I don't know how else to explain it. And I'm so grateful.

[Sage Steele]

They must be so proud. Your parents must have been so proud to see. I mean, you really leading the way. And then of course, your sister. I mean, Candace, I don't know about the other sisters, but for you to. And publicly to proclaim what you believe, right or wrong, it does take courage.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, it does.

[Sage Steele]

Are your parents still here?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yes, my parents are still here.

[Sage Steele]

Wonderful.

[Kirk Cameron]

Mom and dad are doing great. Let me see. You'd mentioned something about faith and it taking courage. And, you know, I think there's this notion that some people have faith, some people don't have faith. And I think that's not true. I think it is an inescapable aspect of being a human being. I think everyone has faith in something or in someone, and you're going to have to serve somebody. It may be the devil, it may be the Lord, it may be yourself, it may be what others think of you and their approval of you, it may be money. You can have masters of all sorts, but ultimately you are going to fear that master, and you're going to worship and obey that master. So you better pick a good one, because money makes a terrible God, and a spouse makes a terrible God. Children make terrible little deities, and they have a complex where they want to be the God of the house. Right. And so does. So do people who like to control others. And sometimes we just think, I don't want to have faith at all in religion because we have a bad experience with church or a concept of God, or we have questions we can't answer, like, why didn't God heal my loved one with cancer? But at the end of the day, rather than being enslaved to lesser, lesser, lesser things, like your need to be approved, the cravings of your own flesh, your own insecurities or whatever, I want to be a servant of the Most High, the one who not only created everything, but the one who's laid down his life and calls me his son. Right. So I think it's a great privilege. And even if someone thinks that's poppycock, you're just a believer in fairy tales. You like the imaginary. No, what's actually imaginary is to think that you popped out of the ether and that the entirety of the universe, actually, in the beginning was what secular scientists would say, or cosmologists, that it all was contained within something called a singularity, which approaches and actually is nothing. And then it popped into everything. And then that non. Create. Non. Non designed everything is able to make beautiful microphones like this and beautiful socks like these.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

Joe Rogan made that very point and said, I'm going with Jesus. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, talk about somebody who's made a transformation, who has chosen to dive in and at least examine it, at least try to get some questions answered.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Publicly.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So when you met your lovely wife, Chelsea.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. Let's talk about Chelsea, one of my favorite subjects.

[Sage Steele]

She's so beautiful to this day. And you would already become a believer. Right, because she was on the set of Growing Pains.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yep.

[Sage Steele]

And so 87ish when you were saved, when did she enter the picture on set, literally?

[Kirk Cameron]

So Chelsea was a model in New York City, and she came and began working on all sorts of sitcom shows like Doogie Howser and Cheers and Seinfeld and all these. All these other shows. Right. It's kind of a small world there in Hollywood. Sitcom world. And then she was on Full House and. And then she came to work on Growing Pains and played Mike Seaver's girlfriend, this one, we just hit it off, we had chemistry and we shared so much values, our faith, family. And we started an off screen romance that led to me proposing. And then six months later we got married. We've been married now for 35 years. We have six children, 28 down to 22. So when they were little we had six kids under seven.

[Sage Steele]

Goodness gracious. Oh my gosh.

[Kirk Cameron]

And, and now they're grown and they're starting their own families. Married, we have a little granddaughter and my wife's grandma name is Grandma Coco and I'm Chief.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, Coco and Chief, please. Who gave you the name Chief?

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, I kind of adopted it myself because, because we moved to Tennessee and that's where, that's where I became a grandpa. And all the grandpa names here are a little wacky, you know, they're like Pee Paw, Pawpaw, Pawpaw. And I'm just not ready to go full cracker barrel.

[Sage Steele]

Please don't.

[Kirk Cameron]

And I thought when I heard that someone has their grandkids call them Chief, I thought now that sounds pretty good. Coco and Chief.

[Sage Steele]

Ring.

[Kirk Cameron]

There's a ring to it for sure.

[Sage Steele]

My dad, when I. Because I provided the first three grandchildren for my mom and dad. He's colonel.

[Kirk Cameron]

Colonel.

[Sage Steele]

Cuz he's a retired colonel. Okay, fine, it fits, Chief fits you perfectly. It's just like Colonel.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know, I could have gone with Captain and I'll tell you why I have, I have an organic reason why my father actually named me after Captain Kirk on Star Trek. Oh, William Shatner's character. Oh, the TV series.

[Sage Steele]

I had no idea.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, the urban legend is that my sister Bridget was going to be named Spock if my mom hadn't stepped in. I don't believe it. Yes, but the Captain Kirk one was.

[Sage Steele]

Real mom for sure. Yeah, okay, so yeah, Captain would have worked.

[Kirk Cameron]

I could have done captain. That's right. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, we'll see what she calls me. Because you know, little kids, they try to say the right thing and then it could come out like.

[Sage Steele]

No, but chief is good. That's one syllable. Colonel is tougher. Coco. At least it's the same consonants. Yeah, there you go.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right, Just a repeat of co, Coco and cheap.

[Sage Steele]

That's so cute.

[Kirk Cameron]

We'll see if it sticks.

[Sage Steele]

So, 35 years Kirk. Okay, I'm sure you get this question all the time, but my parents were about to hit 54. Such a blessing. I was married for 20 and divorced for five and a half years. Now and it's was not the plan, certainly.

[Kirk Cameron]

I don't think it ever is. You never go to the altar thinking this is just gonna blow up in my face.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, hopefully not. Hopefully you have. You're positive going into it, and then life happens and you figure things out and you make tough choices. And I'm so blessed to be engaged again. I found my person, and it took.

[Kirk Cameron]

The knight in shining armor, and now he's hot. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, that's kind of weird for a guy to, you know, comment on that, but, I.

[Sage Steele]

Mean, you're happily married, so it's okay. We won't take it in another direction.

[Kirk Cameron]

But you guys. You guys, you look like you're great. Great couple.

[Sage Steele]

We are. Thank you. It's such a blessing from God in a thousand ways. And this is not about me. My point is, it is.

[Kirk Cameron]

And the ring. I just noticed the ring. How could you notice the ring? See, that's the thing with guys. See, girls notice the rings instantly. Guys were like, oh, the ring. Oh, that's. I know.

[Sage Steele]

I've had to show my guy friends and my girls, like, come here. Rip me off. Yes. But it's. Oh, gosh. When. When I see someone and we're very similar ages. You're 54, 53. Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

You didn't need to out yourself, but.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, I just said similar. I'm 52. Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. I'll be 55 this year, and I get discounts. I'm taking every.

[Sage Steele]

You're already there.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's all.

[Sage Steele]

No, that's 60.

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, yeah, I guess.

[Sage Steele]

Do you lie about your age?

[Kirk Cameron]

No. Yeah, I lie about my age. I say I'm older than I am just so I can get the discount.

[Sage Steele]

Because, you know, you're in between jobs as an actor, right?

[Kirk Cameron]

That's right.

[Sage Steele]

No, but what is the. There's not one key. That's the thing I believe now, having been through it once with not a thing I would change based on trusting that God has me where I'm supposed to be with three beautiful children. And now here we are. And I trust this process, his process. But gosh, communication, listening. So many things I think are keys. My parents talked about it recently. What has worked well and maybe not well for you, that has still allowed you to get to today?

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, let's just ask Kirk questions that bears his soul in about five different categories today.

[Sage Steele]

Do you want another pair of socks? Let's go.

[Kirk Cameron]

No, no. What has worked well?

[Sage Steele]

I just bear my wait real quick. I just. I don't talk about that often either. So you're pulling it out of me. I'm going to blame you too.

[Kirk Cameron]

You know, it's. It's, you know, when people actually feel connected to us, not just you and me, but any of us, my children feel connected to me is not when I tell them about all my accomplishments, but when I talk with them about my failures or about my brokenness or about my hurts. Right. Because those are the things that we are so common to all of us. As you said, we're all struggling with things. All struggling with something. Mistakes or guilt or shame or regret or just pain and grief, whatever. These are things we all relate to. So my marriage is still together today because I have an angel of a wife. And she's. I've given her many, many opportunities to hone her skill of forgiveness. And I think that is the secret to success is not to provide so many opportunities, but to have someone in the marriage who is really good at forgiveness. And I think the reason my wife is so great at this is because she's so grateful for coming back to our faith. This truth that God loves her no matter what and that there's nothing she could ever do to make him love her anymore. And there's nothing she could ever do to make him love her any less. And that she is the object of God's love unconditionally. And she understands that's that. That that's how you love people, your children especially, and your spouse especially. And so I've learned that there's only one person on the planet that we can change and it's not our spouse. Most of us try. We burn lots of calories trying to change that man or that woman and get them to think like we think, when rather maybe the thing about them that's so challenging is the very thing that God will use as a tool to hone and sharpen and develop and mature you in the areas of patience or in the areas of forgiveness or in the areas that you lack and need maturing. And maybe those things will never change in your spouse until in God's time, it's the right time to move forward. I've certainly found that there have been things that Chelsea, in her commitment to staying true to what matters most, not giving in to my selfishness has actually made me learn how to live and love more like Jesus. And that's ultimately what I want to do. I would like to love Chelsea the way Christ loves his bride, the church. And that's about self sacrificing service, not about, look at Me? Don't you understand? I'm the stuff. Because the stuff doesn't say that. You know, a real leader and a good man, a good woman, is someone who is overwhelmed with gratitude and lives a life of service.

[Sage Steele]

You were young when you met, too.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, really young. I was 19. Got married when I was 20. Gosh, but isn't that Kaepa. I just had a conversation with a really good friend about this. You know, I think one of the tragedies of our culture today is that we have so pushed marriage off so far that we have created a whole slew of collateral. Collateral problems. You know, we're made to have to be able to have babies at 15. Right. The hormones are there, all the parts and pieces are developed enough to where you can produce offspring and. And particularly people who want to be men and women of moral integrity understanding that marriage was designed by God to be in the. I'm sorry, sexuality was designed to be in the context of marriage. And if they're pushing marriage off till after college and they're financially stable with a good job and they're 25 to 30 years old, you're like, this is crazy. It seems as though you go back 300 years and people were getting married at 15, 16, 17, 18 years old. That was not weird at all, because you got a piece of land and you began to develop it and you started a family and you worked it and you had a life. It wasn't like, I've got to have a 3,000 square foot home and I've got to have a car and have a Netflix subscription and my cell phone and all this other stuff. So I don't know how we got into that. But.

[Sage Steele]

You know, it's so interesting, though, because I said, oh, my gosh, you were so young.

[Kirk Cameron]

That is being so young to get married.

[Sage Steele]

That's right. How we've been trained, though, that now to. Wait, wait, wait. I was having a conversation with my youngest, who's 19, will be a sophomore in college this fall, and she's like, mom, I really want to wait. I want to make sure that I can afford kids. Yeah, sure. And they all say that. And I'm like, guess what? You'll never have enough money, be in the right house, have the right job. It will never be perfect. So good luck with that.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You know. Yeah, like, you'll never have kids if that's the case. And I do think this is what you said, that we've. We've gotten away from that as a society to. To the importance of Marriage and to do it while you're young and yeah, produce.

[Kirk Cameron]

I think so. I think so. And I don't think that means that everyone should get married at 15 years old. But what I do think it means is that it's culturally we've set things up to where that's probably not a good idea for most people and it's going to be a slow walk back to get there. But I think part of what's really been detrimental is the priorities of higher education. And this is a big conversation but, but so much of higher education and, and the massive amount the industry that it is, the money making industry that it is, and the cesspool that it's become in terms of the kind of ideologies that are being taught. Little kids, it's more like indoctrination than it is not little kids, but young people than it is education. And the message is, well, don't get married. Marriage messes up college, right? I mean you got to go to college first and so you can't go until you're 18. So you have 18, 19, 20, 21 before you finish college. And then hopefully you could go on to graduate school and other types of things. But I really think that getting married young is generally speaking a good idea if you're able to and if you can. And so that means taking your, taking your identity seriously as a kid. These aren't like just like parenthetical years, the teenage years. You know, in the Jewish faith, you're a young man At 13 years old, you're a young woman, you have a bar mitzvah, a bat mitzvah. Most cultures have had that forever in Greek culture and African culture, in Jewish culture, all of it. And today somehow we go, well, you don't really become a man until when, I don't know, when you graduate, when you're financially stable, when you join the military, when you have a beer, when you're intimate with what makes you an adult. And all of it's so fuzzy. And I think that's why we have so many 30 year olds who are still living in their parents basement playing video games, acting like boys and the girls are wondering where have all the men gone?

[Sage Steele]

A legitimate, genuine question. The, the other side of that, that I, because of how it played out for me is okay. Like I met my, my ex husband, I was 21st, real boyfriend. So man, what a different person. 20 to 30, 30 to 40. I do see in some way, like I, I don't have advice for anyone because I do think it's it's personal and it depends on every single person situation. But if you don't, you're all going to change. But do you grow together in the most important ways? What is important to you as a couple morally and your values, et cetera? But then the other side's like, yeah, just wait, because 20 to 28, like, you're, you are a completely different human. You know, I, I don't know. Part of me says, like, with my oldest, who's just turned 23 and just got her first job and is moving here to Tennessee, and I'm like, oh, girlfriend, you need to wait. Like, you need to wait, you know? But based on what? I don't know. Maybe if she meets the right person at 23, then that would provide a beautiful relationship teammates that I hope that she eventually had. It's so hard.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, it is. I know. And we have six children, too, so we're in the same boat. We're, we're, we're, you know, hoping and praying for, for healthy, happy marriages and families. Lots of grandbabies. I've got the chicken factory started ready. You know, like, we're all, we're ready. I, I, I heard some, I'm sorry.

[Sage Steele]

You started early, too. I mean, obviously get married young, so then you're having these babies. Really on your babies.

[Kirk Cameron]

Pretty young.

[Sage Steele]

And you're still in Hollywood.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. One of the, one of the things I love about Chelsea and my story is that we really kind of grew up together.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

Because we got married young. So I've been alive, married to Chelsea longer than I've been alive without her.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right. So I know me with Chelsea longer than I knew the me before Chelsea.

[Sage Steele]

That's beautiful.

[Kirk Cameron]

Which is really, really so great. And someone had mentioned this to me the other day, and I just thought it was great. You know, sometimes our sons and daughters, they lead the relationship by diving into the deep end of the physical aspect of the relationship. Right. It's like, oh, you're really cute, and oh, my goodness, like, you know, let's make this official. And all of a sudden you're just, you're just in over your head with a sea of emotion. And so you're blind to so many of the things you end up seeing ten years later.

[Sage Steele]

Right, exactly.

[Kirk Cameron]

And you're like, I wish I had seen this. But you can't. It's just the emotion is too much there. And there's the intellectual, mental aspect of the relationship. Our review of the same mind and mindset and worldview. There's the spiritual Aspect, Are we aligned in these things? What will we teach our children? What do we think about politics? These are huge issues. And so my friend had said, you know, the design is really to say, wait a minute before we dive into this relationship like we're married. Because if it doesn't work out, what we're really doing is practicing divorce. If I have 14 girlfriends and I'm in love with all of them and sleeping with all of them, and then we break up with all of them when I find my person, you've kind of practiced divorce on an emotional level a lot. And that's not even healthy for the marriage to the person you actually do want to be married to. Right.

[Sage Steele]

So great point.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. And so we were talking about the fact that, you know, the way to do it is take your eyes off of the opposite sex and put them on Jesus. And then pursue what is true and good and beautiful. Pursue righteousness and goodness and honoring God. And as you're chasing after that goal, sooner or later you're going to look to the left and you're going to look to the right and you're going to find a girl who's running right alongside you after the same goal. And if you're running with her long enough, as you're both pursuing that now, that could be a good match.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

But what we do is instead we pursue that girl or we pursue that guy, and we actually then turn them into the one that we think is going to give us our purpose, our identity, and our happiness. And people don't make good gods.

[Sage Steele]

No, they don't. That is confirmed. That is a fact, not an opinion.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. So we gotta teach our kids this. And that's why it's so important that we stay in relationship with our children. As frustrating as it can be, as hard as parenting is, I think the most important thing is to stay in relationship with them through their mistakes, through their insane decisions, all the embarrassments and disappointments. You know, the feeling's mutual. They're disappointed and embarrassed, too, by things that we do. But if we stay in relationship, we can continue to be a good influence and friends, and we can help each other.

[Sage Steele]

How is your relationship with all 16 kids that you have? 16? Same thing in my mind. Yeah. I mean, that's.

[Kirk Cameron]

It's, you know, it's great. It's really good. And like, as you said, every child is different, so every relationship is different. And yet they're all coming over for Sunday night dinner. And that's the goal for us, is that our kids still want to come back home when they don't have to. Free food is helping. I know that's part of it. I'm not discounting the value of free food, but I think they also like being with us.

[Sage Steele]

Well, yeah. At some point it is a choice to make that drive over.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And for all of them to choose to do that.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And your, your oldest daughter is the one that provided you the grand baby.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's right. Yep.

[Sage Steele]

When was that?

[Kirk Cameron]

So our granddaughter is nine months old.

[Sage Steele]

Nine months.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

The pictures are amazing.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And you are over the moon.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

That's what it seems like from social media.

[Kirk Cameron]

And it's, it's the cheeks. That's, that's what melts your heart. It's the cheeks and the little, in the little, the little knowing smile. Like, that's my chief. I've been looking for him and I finally found him. And those cheeks for weeks. There's so much kissing space on those cheeks. And, and we just love spending time.

[Sage Steele]

Is it as different as everyone says?

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, I mean, it is.

[Sage Steele]

You're not changing your day forever.

[Kirk Cameron]

Raising children now we adopted our first four kids, so of our six, four are adopted. And just, you know, like receiving a child, choosing a child, making a baby, like, it's, it's all a miracle. It's, it's, it's all amazing. But then watching your baby have a baby and you get to kind of do it all over again, but in this way where there's none of the really difficult parts. So like you can we get to give her back when she's crying and you know, there's no more 2am Feedings, you know, and all of these other kinds of things. I mean, occasionally, you know, when they go out of town, they need us to watch her. But my daughter is such a great mom. My son in law, he's just such a great husband and such a great dad. They're all in. And grandparenting is one of those things that is not overrated. It is truly next level.

[Sage Steele]

Why did you choose to adopt? Why did you begin with your first four?

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, my wife is an adopted child, so that was part of her story from the very beginning and also for her brother. So as adopted children, it was the most natural thing in the world to be given a special mom and a special dad and a home. And so when we talked about having kids seven years after we were married, we decided that we would start our family through adoption and actually never discussed having children the traditional way. And so we adopted four kids in a Row one year after the other. And then it was sort of a surprise to me when one day Chelsea told me that the bathroom sink was broken and if I would go fix it. And so when I went to go look at it, she had a pregnancy test sitting there at the faucet that said positive. And I was like, how that is this. I don't know how this works, you know, but some. Something is positive and not negative. And she said, we're gonna have a baby. And I was, wow. Wow. You know, like, you know, six years of not having a baby, and then four years of adopting kids. I just. So 10 years had gone by, and. And I just thought, wow, this was a huge surprise. And Olivia was born. And then about a year later, the sink broke again.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kirk Cameron]

And we had another one. James.

[Sage Steele]

Well, you're saying that you didn't have plans to try to have your own.

[Kirk Cameron]

No, no, we really didn't. And this was just like. I mean, it was a shock. It was a surprise. It wasn't like we. We tried to have kids and couldn't. We were intentionally not having kids in the very beginning of our marriage because we were working on growing pains.

[Sage Steele]

Sure.

[Kirk Cameron]

And we were working on a spin off after that, called Kirk, and so we were like, well, I'm not baby. We want to give our all to babies. And my mom, my. My wife is so all in with kids that she wants to be a mom way, way more than she wants to be an actress. I mean, like, it's not even, like, in the same universe. And so she knew that once we had kids, she would. You know, she would. She would dip from the acting scene, and she would be all in. His mom. And so we did that through adoption. And then, like I said, four years later, Chelsea's pregnant.

[Sage Steele]

The fact that you go, 1, 2, 3, 4. Tiny break. And then two more like, you guys don't waste time. Yeah, let's go.

[Kirk Cameron]

Apparently.

[Sage Steele]

Apparently not once you've figured out how that whole thing worked.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right, Right.

[Sage Steele]

Your oldest daughter's biracial. Right? Is she?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yes. Actually, three of our kids are.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, really?

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. Actually, four of our kids are biracial and black. I was gonna say 3. 3. 4 of our kids are biracial. Yeah. What are they, like, races?

[Sage Steele]

Yes. As a biracial kid.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Usually I can.

[Kirk Cameron]

Look, I can tell. I'm so used to, like, wanting to, like, reframe the sentence, but I won't with you, because I. Because, like, we're copaceta, Right? Like, we know. I want to say, no, no, there's one race and it's the human race. You have a different amount of melanin in your skin and different cultures and backgrounds. But, you know, I know what you're saying.

[Sage Steele]

Ask the question, though. Like when I see. And you guys, you've seen it. When I've gone up to someone, I'm like, hi. Usually it's a hair thing. Oh, yeah, pretty hair. YouTube. What are you. And we'll say that because we know that there's something mixed up and it's almost like it's okay since we. But there's got to be a better way. So teach me.

[Kirk Cameron]

Oh, no. I don't even know how to respond to that.

[Sage Steele]

Don't ever mind.

[Kirk Cameron]

I didn't mean to.

[Sage Steele]

But is she, what's her name?

[Kirk Cameron]

Okay, so our first four kids. Yes, Bella. Bella, yeah. Her mom is like white as a marshmallow and her dad is black. And then we have Jack, who's our oldest son. Same thing. And then Anna. Same thing. And Luke, I believe his father was Hispanic and his mother was really light skinned Caucasian.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Kirk Cameron]

And so we've got this really beautiful, really beautiful, all shades of human in our, in our family.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. It's funny, I was telling someone today, actually, I was talking to Dr. Benjamin Carson earlier today, one of my heroes.

[Kirk Cameron]

Oh, Benjamin Carson. I like that. How about that name drop? It's just you and his mom call him that.

[Sage Steele]

What's that?

[Kirk Cameron]

Probably just you and his mom call him Benjamin Carson.

[Sage Steele]

Benjamin.

[Kirk Cameron]

Carson.

[Sage Steele]

Benjamin, yes, Benjamin.

[Kirk Cameron]

Or maybe when Candy's really upset with him, she pulls out the Benjamin.

[Sage Steele]

Benjamin. How can you be upset with him? Sweetest. Could you be so sweet? But we were talking about race and being biracial and how for years we had this fourth of July, like family reunion and because my mom's white, Irish, Italian, my dad's black, and then, you know, all the aunts and uncles married, all. You have no idea. When we would sit down for our family photo, who goes with whom? Nobody. And I loved it. Like, that's America, right? Just the diversity and the melting pot that we brag that we are. And then sometimes it can go another direction. And I mean, as someone who's biracial and has experienced a lot and you're not enough of this and you're too much of that and you're a sellout and all the things. I mean, I, I will fight that. And it. And it will probably always be, but I will fight, like now that I'm old with a big mouth, bring it I love going hard on that one.

[Kirk Cameron]

Come on, Mama.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, do not even. I've never been in a fight before, but I'd like to over that. I'll pull hair and I'll do whatever it takes because it's such a. It's so stupid and it's so hypocritical for what most of these people preach. And I'm. Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

And, you know, I remember one time, this isn't the race category, but the adopted category, where we'd be standing in a grocery store line and someone behind us would see my wife with all these kids. Right. And they're all these different colors. And so then she would ask my wife in front of the kids, who are like 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, which ones are yours?

[Sage Steele]

Stop.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right. And, like, it's a legitimate question if you think. Okay, okay, I get where she's. I get what she's thinking. But would you think before you phrase your question? Right. How do you.

[Sage Steele]

She's mine. But he's not. And he's listening.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like.

[Kirk Cameron]

Right. Or. Or no matter how my wife answers, they're still learning something about the way people think of them.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

From the question that she asked. Right. And they're all ours. And so I think, you know, whether it's race or whether it's adoption, you know, adopted or not adopted, we start to divide one another up into these categories. Gay and straight and vaccinated and unvaccinated, or black and white or adopted non adopted or Republican and Democrat and based or, you know, liberal. Like, would you stop. Just stop doing all that and say, like, you're a person made in the image of God with inherent dignity and worth. Let's just start there.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

And by the way, like, you've got a whole different background than I do. You've got a different. You come from a different culture. And God's writing a story that I find fascinating or maybe I'm scared of based on what I see. But I want to hear your story, and let's learn from one another if we can do that. Oh, my goodness, think of the progress that we could make. We would truly be progressive rather than regressive, which is what we're doing now is we're dividing one another up. And I think there are groups that. Even Ben Carson taught me this. There are groups that actually profit off of the racism industry.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, absolutely.

[Kirk Cameron]

He talked about the racism industry that makes money by keeping racism alive. This is Ben Carson telling me this, and he said they can't afford to let it Die. That's why they keep it going. They fuel the fire.

[Sage Steele]

They got to mainstream media and the.

[Kirk Cameron]

Fire on your sexuality and keep the fight alive because you can raise money off that to fix the problem for the victims in the fight.

[Sage Steele]

Black lives matter. I mean, it, it. The facts came out about that and it's heartbreaking because I think so many good people said, oh yeah, I'm. I'm not a racist. And you know, internally, here's proof I'm donating to this.

[Kirk Cameron]

I got a virtue signal to everybody. So I, I feel good about myself and you feel good about me.

[Sage Steele]

If you feel then these people were cheated and they were cheated out of that money with good intentions, most of them handing it over and then look what they did with it. So. And the reason I ask about that, I mean, I'm.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's why I appreciate you. Can I just mention this and just sort of. You have been someone who's been not afraid to share your opinions, even when they are contrary to, you know, the cultural current and the political winds. And you've had to pay a price and a cost for that. But like, like the rest of us appreciate you and are so grateful for you because you know what? It puts wind in our sails and puts steel in our backbone so that we can stand up straight, shoulders back and move forward. So I think that's true for everyone who does it, whether it's Riley Gaines or it's you or it's coach Joe Kennedy who took a knee at the 50 yard line, whether it's Ben Carson doing what he's doing, it all matters. The mom that just doesn't give up on her kids and hangs in there with them even when it's really hard. Whatever it is, do what's right over the long haul and you'll be blessed.

[Sage Steele]

You will love this. And thank you for saying that. I think sometimes I just did what was in my heart at the moment, even though I didn't want to listen because it was a lot safer and cheaper and easier to just keep my mouth shut, you know, and then you go, okay, wait. The problem with one of the problems with me, there's a long list. But my parents, and my dad in particular, raised us to have memorized part of the cadet prayer from West Point where he went to school. Oh, wow. And I. Many people who watch the show, I'm sorry, I get bored with it, but it has literally guided me in every aspect of my life.

[Kirk Cameron]

I've never heard it help me to.

[Sage Steele]

Choose the harder right instead of the Easier. Wrong. And never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be won harder. Right. We usually know what it is.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Even if it sucks. Even if we don't want to go there with it and don't want to stand up and speak up. And Riley Gaines could have stayed silent and not had her life threatened and physically harmed at times when she was just there to stand up for women. You know, many of us have so many instances where it's. It's easier. But I think deep down, like, we know that we're not doing the right thing. And it isn't. Ends up. It isn't just about us. So when we do that right thing, it actually ends up helping others. That's what I've learned. And that's what has made it easier.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

To do it. You know, But I do think that I understand. I understand the fear that people have. It is real. And I've always said, like, I'm a prime example of why many people just say, nope, no, thank you. You go fight that. And I get it. Like, there are times where I'm like, gosh, was that really the right thing? Now I know that it was. And I wouldn't change a thing. The cancellations, the loss financially, all friends. Friends, all of it. But I do think you have to ask yourself that at times, like, what. What is the right thing that goes beyond that moment that we're in? Because that's for that. I mean, fleeting moment. Right. But one decision could really change. But it's been so cool for me to watch Riley. Right? I mean, she's literally half my age. I mean, I'm more than twice her age. Is that how you say it? Half my. Yeah. I am old and she is not. And she is inspiring me because she continues to choose the harder. Right. And I feel like if our kids and grandkids and strangers alike can watch people like that who are choosing, it is courage led by faith, though I think that's kind of the full circle. Part of it is if it comes back to faith, that hard, right, easy wrong is a prayer.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You come back to it. It's a beautiful thing, man. And by the way, I wanted to clarify. The reason I ask about the biracial thing is because it has been a source of angst for me at times. Not because of my own doubts and myself, but because of society. And what comes at you for.

[Kirk Cameron]

In my case, it's been made a big thing.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And it's. And it's sick. But so now I want to Encourage biracial kids out there. Like, you don't have to choose. They're telling us you have to choose one. And it's almost always choosing black.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I said on the View once, which got me in trouble, not so much then, but when I repeated it in 2021, then it totally blew up. But I'm pretty sure that, like, my white mom was there the day I was born. And so I'm proud of that. I'm proud of being 50% each and so proud of both of my parents. And why is that a bad thing? You know, and then you hear people say, I say this all the time, Kirk. And I don't know if you and Chelsea did at the time or have since. But why. Why would a white couple adopt a black kid? If you're a biracial, you're black, Right?

[Kirk Cameron]

Why?

[Sage Steele]

Why would they do it? They don't understand the plight. They don't understand the life that that kid is going to have in front of him or her.

[Kirk Cameron]

Why.

[Sage Steele]

Have you ever received any of that? Was there any of that at the beginning with your daughter?

[Kirk Cameron]

No.

[Sage Steele]

Or any of your kids?

[Kirk Cameron]

No, we didn't consider that. What we did consider was that we wanted to adopt children because we knew that they needed. These kids needed a home. They were part of an unplanned pregnancy, and they didn't have a mom and dad. They needed a home. We wanted to be parents. And so we were like, give us whatever, right? Like, it. Like there wasn't a barrier. And we wanted to learn how to be the best parents we could to those kids, regardless of the color of their skin or the color of their parents skin or, or. Or their, you know, it wasn't like filters on IQ and eye color and, you know, heritage. It was no, like, we trust that God's going to bring us the kids that he wants us to raise. And at the end of the day, I think God brings families together in all sorts of beautiful ways. I mean, if you think about it, Moses was adopted by Pharaoh's daughter. You think about it, Jesus was adopted by Joseph. Joseph on a human level because he wasn't the father. And every. Everyone who is a Christian by faith has been adopted into the family of God. And so all of these distinctions, they just. They pale and they fade away in the light of what it means to be a human being and to be in a family and to be part of the family of faith.

[Sage Steele]

It's so simple, right?

[Kirk Cameron]

And we really screwed it up and made it really hard and complicated.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. But you're not. I mean, you are making it simple. And I don't know, I mean, do you ever think back on, you know, that before you were 17 and a half, you were only 17 and years after that, I mean, teenage heartthrob and on the COVID of every single one of our magazines. I know you've heard this many, but look at what you've done. And yes, the influence that you have allowed God to have on you because you welcomed him in and your wife and your kids, I mean, the influence that you're having now compared to then, very different.

[Kirk Cameron]

I've noticed a shift in my thinking from when I was a young man wanting, just in a panic, wanting to make sure that, that I had some sort of a career so that I could pay bills and raise a family. You know, every actor usually starts out as a waiter, you know, or waiting tables, doing something on the side until the, you know, until the, the money train comes in with a, with, with, with a show or something. But now, while I still have to pay the bills and you know, you've got kids and grandkids and they need help, and so that never really goes away. I thought my overhead would decrease once the kids left, but it hasn't yet. It's, it's still there. I am thinking more about what do I want to help my children build and leave that will last when I'm gone? And so I'm excited about writing books for children together with brave books about things that matter like virtue and values and character and faith. And that's led to some fun, to some fun bouts with drag queens at public libraries and hit the news. But that's been exciting too, because now we've got the Department of Education calling us, wanting to join us with the center of Faith at the West Wing to possibly be a part of this national see you at the library day, where hundreds of thousands of parents and grandparents are coming in all 50 states of the, of the country to public libraries to read books of virtue and character to children, contra books on drag and men giving birth.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

And I'm so excited to be a part of that. And a new, a new show that we have coming out for children called Iggy and Mr. Kirk, which I'm just.

[Sage Steele]

With Angel Studios, right.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's, it's, it's being streamed on Angel Studios app right there along with the chosen and also pure flix and, and it is a new Mr. Rogers for this generation's families. So think of Mr. Rogers meets Sesame street with all these little animal Puppets only. It's faith friendly. It teaches biblical values to support what parents want rather than undermine it like Disney has been doing and Nickelodeon has been doing, sadly. And Mr. Kirk is raising this adorable little five year old green iguana named Iggy in his backyard treehouse. And he's got to learn all the lessons that every five year old today needs to learn. About identity, about purpose, about trusting his parents, about overcoming fear, about being honest, forgiveness. And he's surrounded by all these other animal characters including a vulture named Culture who's always lying to him and deceiving him. And so he's got to rely on his parents wisdom and a base chatgpt.

[Sage Steele]

Oh goodness.

[Kirk Cameron]

A non woke supercomputer which he has access to and tells him the truth about the world that is out there waiting for him. And it's adorable. It's called Iggy and Mr. Kirk. It's out now. People can go to braveplus.com or the app. You can download it and watch it for free and then soon it will be on the Angel Studios app as well as Pure Flix.

[Sage Steele]

That is so, so cool.

[Kirk Cameron]

I'm so excited about this.

[Sage Steele]

Did you see the energy level when he's describing this? That's, that's amazing.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And that is, that is a choice to continue with this messaging which we so desperately need and you mentioned.

[Kirk Cameron]

And we gotta pass it on to our kids.

[Sage Steele]

We have to.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's the thing. Yes, we gotta pass it on to our kids.

[Sage Steele]

But I'm so excited about what is happening with the Department of Education because everybody's like, oh my gosh, they're dismantling it and they're blowing it up. No, we're getting the crap out and we're actually going to focus on STEM and educating our children again. But getting those things out that are, that are, that have dismantled our culture. But again, you could sit back and say I'm good. And you're choosing not to. You're choosing to keep going with your podcast with this show, with so many things, chief.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's right. That's right. We could sit back and you know, spend our retirement years just hanging out in Florida collecting seashells for the rest of my life. But I choose not to. And I think you should consider the same Sage. I think that you should go to Tennessee where they, where they use whiskey for communion and where there are. They don't really. I'm just playing.

[Sage Steele]

Show me that church.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. And now the bugs are real.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, they're legit.

[Kirk Cameron]

Mosquito, I believe, is going to be officially dubbed the state bird here in Tennessee.

[Sage Steele]

Tennessee, but so you miss California is what you're saying?

[Kirk Cameron]

I missed. I miss the lack of humidity. But I do want to spend the years that I have investing into the next generation because it's the education of our youth that will perpetuate our freedom, our opportunity, and our success. A founding father said very, very importantly. His name was Noah Webster. He gave us Webster's Dictionary. He was the father of American education, and he was a Christian. And he said every civil government is based on some religion or philosophy of life, and the education of that nation will propagate the religion of that nation. He said in America, that foundational religion was Christianity, and It was for 200 years sown into their hearts through the home and through the schools, public and private. He said our liberty, our prosperity and growth is the result of a biblical way of life. And the future of our freedom and success depend on educating the youth of America.

[Sage Steele]

Yep.

[Kirk Cameron]

In the principles of Christianity. So you don't have to like the principles of Christianity or even believe in the Bible, but if you like the fruit.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's hanging on the. The American republic's branches. When it's healthy freedom, liberty, opportunity, prosperity, you have to understand that it comes from the root of a set of values that produced it. Now, if we sever that root and we chuck those principles, the fruit will begin to wither, shrivel, be gnarled, pitted, bitter and sour. And that's what we're seeing in the disintegration of the American value system and dreams and education and marriages and everything else. But the key is not to chop down the tree and let's go full China or North Korea or let's go Canada and let's be full socialist, Marxist. No. Are you kidding? No. That produces worse than lemons. That produces poison. What we do is we reattach the root and we begin to nourish it and teach our children to value the root so that they too can enjoy the fruit.

[Sage Steele]

You give me so much hope. Honestly.

[Kirk Cameron]

Truth wins. And so hope is a person, and he never lies. And so we can all have hope.

[Sage Steele]

You're living it. And thank you. For almost 40 years. Gosh, you're old. 40 years of.

[Kirk Cameron]

It's fun when that doesn't bother you anymore, right? Well, no one says that to you, but, but, you know, it's, It's. It's fun to, like, lean into all the different chapters in the story, because sometimes the end of the story is the best part of the story. And that's that's what I'm hoping for for me.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I, I, I know that's what it is for you. And I mean it. It's 40 years of smiles and now. But nothing more important, I think you would agree, than what you're doing now and the way you're choosing to do it. And as chief, as chief, Can I.

[Kirk Cameron]

Mention one more thing and have your editors like weave it in there somewhere? So the most exciting project that I'm working on right now, I thought it.

[Sage Steele]

Was the, the Iggy and Mr. Kirk.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah, well, it is one of the most important projects I think I've ever done, but there's another one that just started and I can't wait to tell everybody about it. It's called, it's a new podcast that's on YouTube and it's called the Kirk Cameron Show. And I never wanted to do a show called the Kirk Cameron. What's your, what's your show called?

[Sage Steele]

The Sage Steel Show. Okay. You wanted to do the Sage Steel show, didn't you?

[Kirk Cameron]

It's, it's risky to call your show that.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Kirk Cameron]

Because if this doesn't do well, you don't get a redo.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Kirk Cameron]

There's no Sage Steel show number two retake. You, you can't do it, so you better be good. And so I've never wanted to like just put myself out there with that. So, you know, it's Takeaways with Kirk Cameron or it's Growing Pain starring Kirk Cameron, right?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Kirk Cameron]

But I'm all in on this new podcast where, where I'm able to work with my son as my director and. You're kidding.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't know that.

[Kirk Cameron]

With my other son as my co host and producer and my daughter, she's running everything, social media and my daughter in law. And so it's a chance for me to talk about the stuff I never get to talk about on other shows, which is I'm tackling unfiltered my view on politics and culture from a biblical perspective. And then helping families find truth in all of the chaos of today's culture. And morning coffee devotionals on Monday morning. Wednesday, dangerous conversations with my son about relationships and addiction and mental health. And then Friday, political wrap ups of the week, you know.

[Sage Steele]

Wow.

[Kirk Cameron]

Yeah. And I'm loving it.

[Sage Steele]

That's a lot. When did it begin?

[Kirk Cameron]

It began last week.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Kirk Cameron]

It just started breaking news last week and nobody really knows about it yet, but I'd love for everyone who's watching us to go and please like subscribe and, like, help me get this show everywhere.

[Sage Steele]

Okay? That's the tagline that I have not mastered. Where can you find it, Kirk?

[Kirk Cameron]

Well, you can find it on my channel. On YouTube.

[Sage Steele]

On YouTube. And everywhere you get your.

[Kirk Cameron]

Everywhere you get your podcasts. That's right.

[Sage Steele]

Subscribe and, like, subscribe and like.

[Kirk Cameron]

And comment.

[Sage Steele]

The fact that you're doing it with your family, that's the best part.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's so cool.

[Sage Steele]

That is so cool. So then you're going to be stirring the pot on Wednesdays.

[Kirk Cameron]

On Wednesdays. And my son gets to pick the conversations every time.

[Sage Steele]

How old is this?

[Kirk Cameron]

My son is 22.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Kirk Cameron]

And so he's into all the things and all the stuff, you know, and so he wants to know, like. Like, first I asked me, dad, what does it even mean to be a man in today's culture? Because we've got guys in dresses and painted nails, and there's a bunch of other people who want men to just go away and hide in a corner because they say that they're just, like, you know, they're poison to the culture. And then there's girls who are saying, well, where. Where did all the men go?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

So what does it even mean? And what does it look like to be a man today? So we get to have these great conversations. Or. Or he just watched that social media documentary, the Social Dilemma.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirk Cameron]

And he talked to me about how he didn't realize how addictive social media actually is because we just grew up with it and we discussed its relationship to mental health.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, it's brutal.

[Kirk Cameron]

So these are great conversations.

[Sage Steele]

I love it. I love it. And it isn't just for his age group, my kids age group. It's for us as parents. That's right. Who are trying to navigate it, and grandparents. Right. I mean, we have to all know how to do this now. And if we don't know what's on it, that's a problem. So, okay, check out the Kirk Cameron show.

[Kirk Cameron]

Check out the Kirk Cameron show on my YouTube channel and make sure.

[Sage Steele]

Because he does not get a take two.

[Kirk Cameron]

That's why I don't get a take two. I don't get to do this over. So this is it. I got to nail it the first time.

[Sage Steele]

I was so excited for you.

[Kirk Cameron]

Thanks.

[Sage Steele]

And when I come knocking on your door, I'll find your address, because I need. I need bacon and eggs.

[Kirk Cameron]

I can tell you where you can get bacon and eggs. Bacon and eggs at the Nashville International Airport. I do all my best. I do all my best. Shopping at airports.

[Sage Steele]

I'm there way too much.

[Kirk Cameron]

Okay, My wife's not happy about this.

[Sage Steele]

No.

[Kirk Cameron]

Because that means I find my best socks.

[Sage Steele]

But, Kirk, that means they're eight times the price that they would be elsewhere.

[Kirk Cameron]

I know, I know, but they're great, okay? They're great socks.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you for showing the world your socks. You're the best. Thank you so much.

[Kirk Cameron]

Thank you.