Leland Vittert: Unmasking Autism Later in Life | The Sage Steele Show | EP 94

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Leland Vittert: Unmasking Autism Later in Life

The Sage Steele Show | EP 94 | February 25, 2026
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Leland Vittert, NewsNation anchor and author of "Born Lucky"

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Episode Overview

In this candid and emotional episode, Sage Steele welcomes journalist Leland Vittert to discuss his late-diagnosed autism, the challenges and triumphs of growing up "different," and the profound impact of a family's resilience. Vittert opens up about his upbringing, the pivotal role his father played, and the message behind his memoir "Born Lucky," highlighting hope for families navigating neurodiversity. The conversation explores adversity, belonging, bullying, and the complicated realities of embracing a diagnosis that shapes—but doesn’t define—a person.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Origin of "Lucky" (03:54–07:48)

• Nickname Story: Leland shares the life-threatening circumstances of his breech birth, revealing how a doctor dubbed him "Lucky" after discovering a knotted umbilical cord that could have killed or severely injured him.
  • "So the umbilical cord was tied in a knot and around my neck. Had I been born naturally, I would have been either born dead or born with severe cerebral palsy." (05:55, Leland)
• The nickname "Lucky" stuck through childhood—but faded in college to avoid retelling the story.

2. Early Signs & Diagnosis (07:51–11:38; 12:26–13:47)

• Leland didn’t speak until age 3 or 4 and exhibited classic “late development” and significant behavioral challenges.
• At 8, evaluated for "pervasive developmental disorder or delay" (now recognized as autism).
  • "My parents were told they needed to have me evaluated... The woman brings me back and says to my parents, 'you got real problems.'” (08:48, Leland)
  • IQ testing revealed a record-high spread between scores, signaling severe learning disabilities.
• Parents chose not to disclose diagnosis to schools or others—building a family "us against the world" mentality.

3. Resilience Over Accommodation (10:43–13:47; 15:34–18:20)

• Leland’s father rejected advice to simply “accommodate” his child, instead committing to adapt Leland to the world.
  • "My father choosing to adapt me to the world rather than the world to me—that’s the born lucky story." (10:48, Leland)
• Bullying, ostracism, and harsh treatment from both children and adults at school.
  • "There was a teacher in eighth grade... He looks at me in front of the whole class and says, 'if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its ass and make it walk backwards.'" (02:07 and 16:47, Leland)

4. The Weight on Family (15:58–21:06; 29:04–32:34)

• Leland’s mother would crush her Styrofoam coffee cup in stress during parent/principal meetings.
• Sister's earliest memory: holding Leland’s hand as he cried walking home from school because of daily bullying.
  • "Every day, you would start crying, and I would hold your hand as we walked home." (30:08, Leland recounting sister’s memory)
• Siblings and the entire family “put him back together” every day—a collective effort.

5. The Sacrifice of a Father (22:58–24:11; 45:09–47:59)

• Mark Vittert, Leland's father, quit his job and sold his businesses to dedicate himself full-time to Leland’s development.
  • "He said, I knew I didn't know how it was going to end up but I knew I was your only hope." (45:15, Leland)
• Leland's dad endured his own emotional pain in private, shouldering the brunt so his son would not see his grief.
  • "He would go into the living room by himself... and he would sit there in the dark and cry himself." (17:01, Leland)

6. Loneliness & Social Struggles (20:30–23:39; 29:04–29:55)

• No real friends his own age until adulthood. His father filled the role of friend and confidante.
  • "He and I will talk four or five times a day still. And that's not text... it's phone calls." (23:38, Leland)
• Being “different” was obvious to Leland, but changing was elusive.

7. Parents Not Alone – Purpose of "Born Lucky" (24:02–25:19)

• Book aims to give hope to parents with “kids having a hard time”—not just autism, but any struggle.
  • "Every parent is having a hard time and now know they're not alone." (24:11, Leland)

8. The Toughest Years: Surviving Without Friends (22:43–24:11)

• Framework of "us against the world" within the family, with father as best friend and supporter.

9. The Audiobook Experience (26:29–28:24)

• Leland narrates the "Born Lucky" audiobook—an unexpectedly grueling, emotional process.
  • "Of everything I have done in my life, narrating the audiobook... was the single hardest thing I did." (26:29, Leland)

10. Family Dynamics & Sibling Perspective (29:04–32:34)

• Leland’s relationship with his sister is now extremely close, shaped by navigating adversity together.

11. Never Suicidal, But Angry (34:54–36:50)

• Despite intense bullying and loneliness, Vittert never contemplated self-harm—"way too stubborn" and driven for revenge by success.
  • "I'm way too stubborn to let anybody beat me. And... we didn't have to deal with the social media component..." (35:14, Leland)

12. The Social Media Problem (37:08–38:38)

• Leland questions parents’ willingness to give smartphones/social media to kids despite known dangers.
  • "We know that social media is as dangerous for kids or even more so perhaps than drugs. And yet parents are like, oh, here's a new iPhone for Christmas. I don't get it." (37:49, Leland)

13. Deciding to Share the Story (38:57–44:21)

• The push for transparency came from a talent coach and a co-author with a personal stake—a parent to an autistic child.
  • The book almost didn’t happen; Leland had to convince his father it could be hope for others, not a boast.
  • Father's afterward stresses parents today face even more challenges (e.g., social media).

14. Lessons in Resilience: Applying Childhood to Adulthood (52:34–53:34)

• When Vittert lost his job, faced relationship breakdown, and suffered severe illness, his father reminded him of his resilience.
  • "Every day in eighth grade, you went back to school even after that teacher compared you disfavorably to his dog's ass... You can get through this." (52:57, Leland's father)

15. Adapting to the World (53:55–55:20)

• Leland ascribes his success to learning—painfully and intentionally—the non-intuitive “human equation,” comparing the discipline needed to that of a recovering alcoholic.
  • "Had to learn, A, how I'm seeing it's wrong, B, how to see it and practice it... and C, keep that discipline." (54:03, Leland)

16. Rejecting the "Superpower" Narrative (57:47–58:55)

• Leland resists the notion that autism is a "superpower," emphasizing the real hardships involved.
  • "I bristle a little bit when everybody's like, oh, this is your superpower. No, this is really hard. I mean, no one would wish this." (58:55, Leland)

17. Should You Have Kids? The Burden and Hope of Legacy (63:25–65:14)

• Sage asks if he wants children; Leland discusses his deep-seated fear of living up to his father's sacrifices.
  • "I don't want kids because I don't think I can be the father that my dad was. And that is a bar." (64:32, Leland)
  • Credits his father's humility and message: "I'm just a dad. I just did what any father would do." (44:35, Leland quoting father)

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Notable Quotes & Emotional Moments

• On Surviving Adversity:

  • "The born lucky story is that process of my dad trying to adapt me. And... it is hope for every parent of a kid having a hard time." (10:51, Leland)
  • "That teaching of resilience... holding your kid's hand through adversity... is so much harder on the parent. But it then teaches the kid and taught me, you can do hard things." (17:01, Leland)

• On Parental Sacrifice:

  • "He said, I knew I didn't know how it was going to end up but I knew I was your only hope." (45:15, Leland quoting father)

• On Not Letting Diagnosis Define You:

  • "No kid has to be defined by the diagnosis. No matter what the diagnosis is... If you allow yourself to be defined by the diagnosis or if you allow your child to, they will be defined by that forever." (56:27, Leland)

• On Superpower Narrative:

  • "I bristle a little bit when everybody's like, oh, this is your superpower. No, this is really hard. I mean, no one would wish this." (58:55, Leland)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Origin of “Lucky” nickname – 03:54–07:48
• Evaluation & diagnosis – 07:51–11:38, 12:26–13:47
• Family approach and rejection of accommodation – 10:43–13:47
• Parental sacrifice and father-son dynamic – 15:58–24:11; 45:09–47:59
• Bullying, loneliness, and resilience – 20:30–23:39; 29:04–32:34; 34:54–36:50
• Audiobook emotional impact – 26:29–28:24
• On parents not being alone – 24:02–25:19
• Struggles with diagnosis & "superpower" rejection – 57:47–58:55
• Personal/career setbacks and life lessons – 52:34–53:34
• The fear and hope of becoming a parent – 63:25–65:14

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Tone & Final Thoughts

This episode is heartfelt, raw, and honest—reflecting both Leland’s wit and self-deprecating humor, and Sage’s empathy and openness. While much of the conversation focuses on challenges, the episode radiates hope for families and individuals confronting adversity. The central message: no child or family is alone, and with the right love, boundaries, and support, children “born different” can carve their own place in the world.

“Born Lucky” is not a how-to or a happy-ending fairytale, but a story of perseverance, the realism of lived struggle, and the transformative power of a parent’s belief in a child.

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Transcript

[Sage Steele]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Sage Steele]

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[Leland Vittert]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Sage Steele]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[Leland Vittert]

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[Sage Steele]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[Leland Vittert]

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[Leland Vittert]

She says, you're just not getting this. I said, yeah, it's not the hardest thing in the world to do to match someone's emotion. She goes, why? I said, well, because I'm autistic. Silence. After graduating from Northwestern University, landed his first job in Little Rock. Five years later, Fox News. And now he's a popular anchor at News Nation. Towards me, there was a teacher in eighth grade. He looks at me in front of the whole class and says, you know Vidder, if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its ass and make it walk backwards.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

What?

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, my dad would meet me here every afternoon at 4:20, when I would come home, he would just sort of then take the emotional brunt of what I was dealing with and take that weight. You know, the idea that every night that he went and cried by himself too, I never knew that until we started working on the book.

[Sage Steele]

How did that make you feel? Unfortunately, a lot of parents have had to deal with kids who have been through a lot and even threatened suicide.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, never.

[Sage Steele]

Keep sniffing.

[Leland Vittert]

Okay, so. So what happens? I'm invited to leave Fox News. I end a long term relationship. I got Covid and almost died. I was in the hospital for a week. All of my possessions fit in a backpack. He looks at me and he goes, you're feeling sorry for yourself, aren't you? And I said, yeah, I am. And he goes every day. In eighth grade, you went back to school even after that teacher compared you disfavorably to his dog's ass. I said, uh huh. And he says, all right, you can get through this.

[Sage Steele]

I'm so glad to finally see you

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

in person and to see that the

[Sage Steele]

hair is as fabulous in person as on.

[Leland Vittert]

Everybody has to have something going for them.

[Sage Steele]

Is that you're lying. Cause everybody tells you that.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, well, I made a deal with God. The hair's going gray. I made a deal, like, when I was 25. I was like, I don't care what color it is. I'll never color it. I will never be one of those guys.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you. I would totally not be.

[Leland Vittert]

Never color it. So long as I have hair, I'm happy.

[Sage Steele]

It's awesome. Thank you. And I want to get right into this because the book you wrote is really, really special. Let's just start with, in my mind, the most important thing, the thing that sets the tone. When I read that your nickname was Lucky, I'm like, okay, there better be a really good story with why Leland Lucky Vittered.

[Leland Vittert]

There is. And the title of the book, Born Lucky. Actually, I wrote in the very beginning, and I think they said it was the first time that a book had ever been titled the same thing all the way through. It always changes, and this never did. And so Lucky, for a number of reasons, obviously, the book is talking so much about how I'm lucky to have the father I had and the mother and the dedication that he showed to me. But the nickname. Up Until I was 18 years old, I introduced myself as Lucky Vittert. Came from the doctor who delivered me. So 1982, before sophisticated ultrasounds. My mother goes for her last appointment before giving birth, and the doctor sees that I'm upside down, I'm breech. And my dad was sort of uninvolved in wanting a kid, having a kid. He was like, that's your deal. I'm busy, busy building my businesses and everything else. And so my mom came out to my dad and was worried out of the appointment. And they're talking and my mom says, the doctor suggests I get a C section. And at the time, having a natural birth was very in vogue. And there was all this research that doctors were ordering C sections because it was more convenient and on and on and on. My mother made the very fateful decision. She said, if I'm not going to trust my doctor's advice, I should get a new doctor, not take his advice. Which later saved my life in the Middle East a couple of times, sort of that mindset. But they're in the delivery room and there's like the curtain between where my mom and my dad are. And then I'm being born on the other side of the curtain. And you hear from the other side of the curtain, oh my God, from the doctors. My mom's like, excuse me. And the nurse goes, God, this is a lucky baby. And my mom's hand just like clenches down on my dad's in the operating room. And the doctor goes, oh my God, this is a lucky baby. So my dad sort of peeks around, he goes, everything okay? You can imagine how nervous first time parents are 35 years old. And they said, yeah, yeah, he's fine, fine, fine, everything's good. And they said, oh, God, this is the luckiest baby we've ever seen. So the umbilical cord was tied in a knot and around my neck. So had I been born naturally, I would have been either born dead or been born with severe cerebral palsy. So fast forward to the next day. My parents are up in like the little nursery room. And I'm there and my mom's with me and there's a little whiteboard outside of the room that says, like the name of my mom, Carol Vitter, Leland Vittert. How much I weighed, when I last ate, when I last pooped, whatever. And the doctor came along with a Sharpie and crossed out Leland and said, call this kid Lucky. So that has been my nickname since I was born. In my, you know, my parents, friends growing up still call me Lucky. So.

[Sage Steele]

Wow. I'm visualizing. Yeah, first of all is that I remember what it felt like as a first time mom giving birth. And even though billions of women have done this, you feel like it's your first. Like, you're the first person to ever do it.

[Leland Vittert]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And for your dad. Yeah.

[Leland Vittert]

So.

[Sage Steele]

So from there, yeah, they. Your parents called you Lucky.

[Leland Vittert]

Parents called me Lucky. I introduced myself as Lucky Viddert to everybody. And when I went to college, I would have kept going by Lucky. But, you know, everything on the walls, you know, you know, your dorm room, your email, everything else is Leland Vitter. You know, if you're Richard, call me Bob. If you're William, call me Billy, whatever, that's easy. But if you're Leland, call me Lucky. Everybody goes, why Lucky? And then you have to. So I just was like, I don't want to just tell this story a thousand times. So.

[Sage Steele]

Especially in school or whatever.

[Leland Vittert]

First. First month of freshman year at college. So I just went by Leland.

[Sage Steele]

So Lucky from the get go.

[Leland Vittert]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Literally and figuratively. Were there any issues after birth?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No.

[Leland Vittert]

I mean, I was a normal kid. I didn't talk until I was three or four. My wife wishes we could bring some of those days back sometimes, but didn't talk till I was three or four. And it was clear, I think, to my parents and to teachers that, yeah, I was, you know, I was a little late developing. This is the 1980s. Lots of kids are, you know, odd, different, funny looking before. This is before sort of the culture fully evolved that we're in right now. Thankfully, the pendulum swinging back. But When I was 8 years old, my parents were told they needed to have me evaluated. Worst thing any parent can hear, right? So they take me to one of those medical testing buildings, Sit in the waiting room, linoleum floors, old magazine, stale coffee, wait for about two and a half, three hours. And the woman brings me back and says to my parents, you got real problems. And my parents could already see the behavioral problems were real. Was never going to get invited to a play date or a birthday party. If a kid looked at me wrong in class, I'd turn around and slug them. Big sensory issues. If I didn't like socks or a jacket or whatever I had on, I would just melt down. The day would be over. And then what this testing found, among other things, was severe learning disabilities. Right. So my IQ, which is measured by the average of two scores, anybody's IQ, a 20 point spread between the two tests is a learning disability. I had about a 70 point spread. The woman said this was the biggest spread we've ever seen. The woman said to my parents, it's very difficult to understand what's going on inside his mind, meaning my mind. So My dad naturally said, well, what do we do? This is a guy who was an entrepreneur who had really been used to bending the world to his way. And he says, what do we do? And the woman goes, there's not much you can do. Just kind of. He is who he is. And where I was was a disaster in every way, shape, or form. And my dad goes, is there anything we can do? And she goes, generally not. And so the born lucky story, right, is my father choosing to adapt me to the world rather than the world to me. And that was the suggestion that he had been given, right, which was, hey, just sort of like, let him be him. This is who he is. This is kind of what he's gonna be. Adapt the world to him as much as you can. You know, you give him accommodations. Everything else. It's going to be fine. And my dad said, no, it's not. So the. The born lucky story is that process of my dad trying to adapt me. And what we've said, and I think this is now proven to be true, is the book's been out for a few months. Is it is hope for every parent of a kid having a hard time. And I've heard from parents of kids with ADHD and anxiety and obviously autism, but kids just having a hard time with bullying, kids having a hard time fitting in, kids like you moving from school to school to school, army brat. And everything else I heard from one parent of a kid who had a nut allergy about how this was their story. Every kid can be more if their parents really push them and support them.

[Sage Steele]

So beautiful. That's why. Yes, I think. And I'm learning to figure out how to write my book, which has been going on for, like, three years, chapter a time. But the why behind it, yes, it's therapeutic, I think, for those of us who choose to write them. But maybe more importantly is look at the people you are helping, most of whom you won't even get to meet. Like, this is endless.

[Leland Vittert]

It's a great point. You know, I never went to therapy as a kid. Big part of my sort of dad's philosophy was, life is the way it is, and we're just gonna get through it together. I never went to therapy. Going to therapy on national television and on every podcast and sort of sharing the darkest parts of your life of which born lucky really is. And some of the hardest things is about as fun as sitting in a bathtub full of scissors. It won't kill you, but it's not really fun. I think a cold Plunge is better. And if that means that there are kids who have hope and parents who have hope and kids who realize they're not alone, and families who realize they're not alone, then it's worth it.

[Sage Steele]

When was the autism diagnosis?

[Leland Vittert]

So it was when I was 8. The woman diagnosed me what they called pervasive developmental disorder or delay. It's what we now know to be autism. This was, you know, 1980s. Autism was sort of seen as this very singular thing. So that was the diagnosis. But remember, my dad didn't tell anybody. You know, my parents said thank you very much and walked out. They didn't tell any teachers, they didn't tell any therapists, they didn't tell any counselors, they didn't tell any principals. And you know, one of the parts of born lucky that you see is how not just kids treat me, but adults did in principals. So you think about seventh grade. I'd been through at this point four or five schools, maybe six, and started seventh grade at this new school. It was a seventh through 12th grade school. My parents were really hopeful that this was now kind of a change point. This was an inflection point. Two weeks in, they get called into the principal's office. So you know, we've all been there. I don't think couch was this nice, but something like that. And they're sitting there and the principal looks at my parents and says, you know, everybody at this school thinks your kid is really weird. So arrow number one through my parents heart. And then she follows up and she says, and frankly, I do too.

[Sage Steele]

Oh my gosh.

[Leland Vittert]

So you can understand that at that point, for the next six years. And what my parents realized in that meeting was everything bad that was gonna happen to me was my fault now cause I was weird. And that's sort of the, I think where it really shows what my parents had to deal with as well.

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[Sage Steele]

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[Sage Steele]

I've had a few experiences with teachers and administrators at schools with my three kids through the years. And you know, the vast majority are awesome and are in it for the right reason. In a moment like that, like that hurts my heart to have read it. But to hear it again and to put my shoe, myself in the shoes of your parents. What did they say?

[Leland Vittert]

They said, thank you and walked out. Now, you know, you think about those moments. One of the things in Born Lucky that I thought was so interesting. We didn't really talk about this as a family until I was in my 20s or 30s. Really didn't talk about much about it until I was writing the book. But my mother remembered being in principal's meetings holding a coffee cup. Sort of like you're holding a coffee cup right now. And she would get so angry at what was happening to me. At the end of the meeting, the coffee cup would be in pieces of the Styrofoam. She would just be sitting there just holding this. And it was how teachers acted towards me. There was a teacher in eighth grade, an art teacher who didn't like what my drawing was. She didn't think I was gonna become Picasso or whatever. So, you know, you get art room with stuff on the walls and pottery, whatever else, who cares? And he looks at me in front of the whole class and says, you know, Witter, if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its ass and make it walk backwards.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

What?

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah. So, you know, think about it. If the parents are saying that, the kids are saying it 10 times worse and doing 10 times worse. But walked home that night. Every night. My dad would meet me here every afternoon at 4:20 when I would come home. He was always there waiting. And it was, you know, he would just sort of then take the emotional brunt of what I was dealing with and kind of take that weight. And, you know, sometimes I was angry and sometimes I would cry and I. All these different emotions would come out. And I didn't know this until I was writing Born Lucky, until we started working on the book. But oftentimes late at night, he would go into the living room by himself after I had gone to sleep or finished my homework, and he would sit there in the dark and cry himself. The difference was, and I think this is where people have been surprised, is that every morning he would take me back to school. And that teaching of resilience, that holding your kid's hand through adversity, I think that's something that you did with your kids. Not trying to take the adversity away, not trying to make it easy, but to hold their hand through the adversity is so much harder on the parent. But it then teaches the kid and taught me, you can do hard things. You can deal with hard things because

[Sage Steele]

there's so many hard things to come. This is, unfortunately, just the beginning.

[Leland Vittert]

And you see it now. It's weird, right? Because I'm 43 now, and I see it now in the younger generation of my team that works on the show at NewsNation, there's all these kids who at 24, 25 years old, they've never been criticized, they've never been coached, they've never had to deal with hard things. And the flip side is those that have have such a leg up on their peers because they can operate in the real world and that. That's a huge gift that a parent can give a child.

[Sage Steele]

I'm excited to go deeper on your dad, Mark in a second, but

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

when

[Sage Steele]

you have administrators principal telling mom and dad that their kid is weird, to

[Leland Vittert]

be fair, I was right.

[Sage Steele]

So did you think you were weird?

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, I knew I was different. Look, I mean, in fourth grade, I was carrying like, astro, like aeronautical design books, like big textbooks to recess. I was an odd kid in many, many different ways. I think what was so different is I knew it. I just couldn't figure out how to fix it. And that was my dad's sort of quest. Right? Fix is a very loaded word. But it was how to teach me the social and emotional fabric and interaction that's so natural to the human equation that I was completely blind to and also was sort of diametrically, I don't want to say opposed to but in the same way that, like, some people are like magnets, they just attract friends and people and everything else, I was equally magnetically repellent. And it was how to teach that sort of. How do you literally teach someone to reverse the magnet.

[Sage Steele]

Did you have friends?

[Leland Vittert]

None really. I didn't have any friends really until I was. I didn't have any friends my own age until I was well into my 20s.

[Sage Steele]

20s?

[Leland Vittert]

Oh, yeah. I mean, there was a couple kids I knew in college who were friendly. There's one, you know, but you think about it from my. My wedding, for example, just got married. There was. Of people my own age, there was no friends from growing up. There was one friend from college. And everybody else was people I had met after that, long after.

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[Sage Steele]

whoever owns the WI fi.

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[Sage Steele]

In hindsight, how did you get through the toughest Years, junior high, high school. Forget college, just those really formative years without friends.

[Leland Vittert]

Well, my dad said when I interviewed him for Born Lucky, and we spent a lot of time obviously talking about the book and interviewing him for it, he said when I was, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, and he decided to step away from his work and focus full time on me. Right. He said, I knew you weren't going to have any friends, so I thought maybe I could be your friend. And really, my dad was my best and only. I mean, he was my only friend. He still is my best friend, I think about. We're recording this now at 10:30. I haven't talked to him yet this morning, but on an ordinary day, he and I will talk four or five times a day still.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Really?

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I love it.

[Leland Vittert]

And that's not text. It's actually. Well, he doesn't really text, so it's phone calls. But yeah, it's a wonderful. It's been a wonderful, wonderful thing. But that's really the answer. And then I wanted to write the book, number one, so that he understood what he understood that I understood what sacrifices he had made.

[Sage Steele]

Sacrifices, yes.

[Leland Vittert]

And what he had done. Number two, I wanted to write the book to let parents know they're not alone.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Leland Vittert]

Right. There's so many families that are struggling with this. And I remember when I'd been asked to give speeches about Born Lucky, I said to the audience, who out here has kids? 90% of the hands will go up. A couple hundred people say in a room. I said, okay, so if your child is on the honor roll, captain of the football team or soccer team, whatever it is, has tons of friends, never had any emotional issues, never had any academic issues, has so many invites for events after school and friends parties. They need their own Google Calendar. Now raise your hand. There's like one hand that goes up out of hundreds of parents, like every parent is happy. And that's what I've really learned since I don't have kids. Post writing the book is just how many parents are having a hard time and now know they're not alone. And with the Born Lucky story, understand how much of a difference they can make.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion. 1. 20 billion is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.

[Leland Vittert]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Sage Steele]

I don't want. I mean, there's so many details in your book. So we're not gonna, you know, ask you to share all of them.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Now.

[Sage Steele]

I want people to go if they have not already read the book. Audiobook as well.

[Leland Vittert]

Audiobook as well. Which, interestingly enough, I narrated the audiobook. It was that of everything I have done in my life, narrating the audiobook. And you will find this when you do. Your book was the single hardest thing I did. There is something about processing the events and speaking them.

[Sage Steele]

I'm already choked up. It'll be so hard.

[Dan Morgan]

It was

[Leland Vittert]

HarperCollins said, okay, you're gonna need five days to do the audiobook. Five days. Come on. I'm a professional. I can do this in three, maybe two. Let's just do it on a weekend. Because I don't want to do it when I'm doing work.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, I don't know how to handle microphone.

[Leland Vittert]

I can read no problem. Literally, I read on television for a living. Yes, no problem. So it was a Saturday and a Sunday. We were supposed to. They wanted to start at like 10am on a Saturday and go to 4. I was like, no, no, we're gonna start at 8. We're gonna go to 5. Just do 10 to 4. It's gonna be okay. Told my wife, okay, I'm going to do this when I get home at 4. I'm going to shower, change, we're going to go out to dinner. And we had like another couple we were going to dinner with that night. And I called her on the way home from doing not the eight hours I wanted to do, but the five and a half hours that they said, this is the most anybody has ever done. And my wife Said, are you okay? And I said, no, I'm the most emotionally shattered I have ever been. It was a remarkable experience. I think when people listen to the audiobook, they'll sort of feel the emotion that came through. But reliving that, talking about it's one thing actually reading it and having. Processing it. Call me after you do your audio book disaster.

[Sage Steele]

It's good to know. And that makes sense. It does make sense because we all know what we've been through, lived through, and, you know, we have very different stories. And, you know, mine's kind of one of those where you're like, okay, that sucked. But next, right? Like, it is. It's still different thinking it versus saying it on a stage. And sometimes I'm like, why am I getting emotional again? What an idiot. Like, I've done this a hundred times. And then it, it feels, it hits different every time. And so for you, which is 10 times more difficult, 100 times more difficult than what I went through. Again, I don't want you to give away everything. Is there one single story that stands out to you from your days, junior high, high school?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I mean, you were bullied.

[Sage Steele]

It was constant.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, it was, it was constant. It was merciless. As I said, you know, the faculty and teachers got in on the fun too, I think, what sort of shows sort of what it did. And I asked my sister. We were working for the book. Working on the book. My sister's six years younger than me. She's a professor, highly accomplished mathematician, and clearly I'm the smart one. And Liberty and I start sitting down. It's weird to interview your family about yourself, right? Because you know, your family, you feel like you know everything about them, but now you're sitting down and talking to them. So I said, all right, Liberty, we're very, very close. I said, all right, Liberty, what's your first memory of me? And she goes, oh, that's easy. Remember, I'm 42 at this point, and she's 35 or 37, whatever she is. She goes, oh, that's easy. I said, okay. She goes, we were in fifth. You were in fifth grade. I was in kindergarten, so she was little one. And she goes, you would come every day from fifth grade, your fifth grade classroom, down to my kindergarten classroom, and we would walk home from school every day. And when we would get sort of past the football fields, the PE fields in the school, little like two story, grade school, whatever, you'd walk out, you walk around to the back through the fields. And when you would get to the tree line of the woods at the back of the fields, which was the path that led to our house. Every day, you would start crying, and I would hold your hand as we walked home, and you think about that like, that's my sister's first memory of me, which is wild. And it was interesting as we worked on Born Lucky, how. And I didn't realize this, and now that I've sort of understood more about this world of kids having a really hard time, how much the siblings play a role in it, and how my parents, in the words of my sister, really made this an us against the world fight. Right. And they would tell my parents. My parents would tell my sister. Every day Lucky goes to school, and he's sort of broken and hurt, and it's our job as a family every day to put them back together, which I thought, in retrospect, was a really amazing way to tell my sister, a, why I needed extra help, and B, how she could help. And I think people don't give enough credit for how hard it is for a lot of siblings. You know, the school I went to, the. The high school, seventh through 12th grade, seventh grade is when they were saying I was so weird. But 12th grade, my sister was now a seventh grader, and they had a big sister, little sister, big brother, little Brother program. So seventh graders, 12th graders would have seventh graders, kind of like some, you know, kid to look after them in the hallway, somebody. And there was not a single kid in my class who would be her big sister. And there were a number of teachers who said to my sister, I really hope you don't end up like your brother. So I think that was another thing I really learned writing the book of how hard it was not just on me, not just on my parents, but on my sister.

[Sage Steele]

How's your relationship today?

[Leland Vittert]

I've talked to her three times this morning already. So we're a very close family. And I think it, you know, is. It's very much. Once you've been through that as a family, I think it either breaks some families, as it does a lot. 80% of parents of kids with disabilities get divorced. But those that it doesn't, it makes so much stronger, which is beautiful. Yeah. I mean, there's a reason the title is Born Lucky.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

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[Sage Steele]

Was there a moment and I'm trying to be sensitive in asking this where you.

[Leland Vittert]

Oh, please wait, Sage, don't be sensitive. I this.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. And I know you probably, but you know, unfortunately a lot of parents have had to deal with kids who have, you know, been through a lot and even threatened suicide.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, Never. Never. No. It's interesting, my co author and I, when we were writing the book, he asked the same question in an equally kind of thoughtful, delicate way. And no, first of all, I'm way too stubborn to let anybody beat me. Way too stubborn. And I think as my dad wrote in the afterword, we didn't have to deal with the social media component of this. Didn't have to deal with that it came home with you and that it continued and everything else. But no, there was, I was never. I mean there was a lot of anger, a lot of anger that I had, but. And all the more angry because sort of you couldn't when my dad was growing up. And when his dad was growing up, you dealt with it by a fight. Right. If a kid was picking on you enough, you hit him in the nose and that sort of ended things. And I tried that in seventh grade and was informed you couldn't really do that anymore, which obviously creates its own problems. But no, I never had that feeling. I always had a lot of anger and a lot of sort of desire for revenge. Obviously I think success is the best revenge, but I never had any kind of thoughts of hurting myself.

[Sage Steele]

Well, thank goodness. And I do agree, these kids today, it is brutal. And the parents, like my parents didn't have to deal with that with us.

[Leland Vittert]

Right, right.

[Sage Steele]

So we're the first generation of parents that's trying to figure this out.

[Leland Vittert]

I'm not a parent, but I can't. What I can't figure out as it relates to kids today. When we know how bad social media is for kids, we know it forget screen time and you know, whether a five year old should be watching whatever, you know, Elmo the dinosaur or whatever it is. But you know, when I was a kid, you know, my parents made it very clear you didn't drink and drive, you didn't smoke, you didn't use drugs like those. You know, there weren't a lot of rules in our house. Those were inviolate rules. I can't figure out. We know that social media is as dangerous for kids or even more so perhaps than drugs.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Leland Vittert]

And yet parents are like, oh, here's a new iPhone for Christmas. I don't get it.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, definitely a conversation for another day because I could go super deep on this. This should be a show because get a lineup of parents who have the thought we're not letting our kids do it and if we do, it's not

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

going to happen until they're 16 years

[Sage Steele]

old and they ever drive. And that's the best laid plans. And then when kids are only able to communicate, you know, my kids would, you know, basketball practice at the gym. Well then all of a sudden the gym and the lobby, they don't have phones anymore that your kids can use to say, hey, you know, can you come pick me up? We ended early.

[Leland Vittert]

Phone at school.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, none of that now.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

How did we survive all those years? I don't know.

[Leland Vittert]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

We are lucky for having been born back then.

[Leland Vittert]

I just can't imagine what kids would go through now.

[Sage Steele]

It is and it's absolutely brutal. And then at first it's this kind of cool thing and oh, look, you can find new ways to do your hair if you're a little girl or whatever. And then it turned quickly into something much deeper. So it is a disaster in many ways. And now it's like you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. You're trying to fix it.

[Leland Vittert]

I think it was a really profound thing. My dad. I don't know if you got to the. Afterward, my dad's afterword in the book. I think it's the best part of the book, but you know, my dad and I never told this story right. And the reason it sort of became a book or a story or anything else is that I was meeting with a talent coach when I got to News Nation about working on my on air presentation, which obviously is something you've been through. And the woman was talking about being in the two box, you know, and how to relate emotionally to the person that you're with. And she says, you know, you're just not getting this. It's been like four or five sessions we've been working on this. It's very hard for you. I said, yeah, it's very hard for me. It's about the hardest thing in the world to do to match someone's emotion. She goes, why? I said, well, because I'm autistic. Silence, like 30 seconds later. Are you there? She goes, did you say you were autistic? I said, uh huh. She goes, I didn't know that. Well, nobody knows that. I've never told anybody. She goes, well, why are you telling me? I said, well, we're working on this. I figured you should know that you're dealing with someone who's kind of a little special in trying to learn this skill. And she goes, well, do the bosses now? No, nobody knows. That's sort of the whole point. And she said, I don't believe you.

[Sage Steele]

I said, okay, because I'm gonna just make that up.

[Leland Vittert]

Fine. She goes, have you ever written anything on it? And I said, well, yeah, I wrote about 700 words once. I think I was drunk one night and it was around Father's Day and I thought, you know, it'd be fun to write a Father's Day op ed sort of about dad. This would be a great story. And I just literally wrote it and just left it on my Google Drive. She goes, can I see it? I said, sure. So I sent it to her and it was titled Born Lucky. It was basically the book in 700 words. So I didn't think anything of it. About three months later, my phone rings. It's Don Yeager, who I wrote the book with. And he said, I have to write the Born Lucky book. And he had already 12 New York Times bestsellers, a bunch of sports books, I think you may have known them from Sports Illustrated. Very storied writer. And I said, this isn't a book. I've never talked about this. I'm not talking about this publicly. He said it would really be important. I said, why? He says, well, I have an autistic child and if I had known this story, it would have so helped me. I said, all right. So we met with dad, went through everything. Dad's on board. Even though he's very private, he's fine, we'll write the book. So we're working on the book, and every time we get to a story, like some kind of really meaningful story, dad goes, I don't know if we can do this. It's way too personal. Way too personal. Okay, dad, we can't adjudicate every story, so you gotta just tell me everything. I'm gonna write the manuscript when we're done. If you don't like it, we won't turn it into HarperCollins. So you know what this is like writing a book. And it is now deadline week. It's Tuesday. I send him the manuscript and I said, here you go. Thursday night he calls me, it's like 10pm and he says, I can't do it. What do you mean? He says, it's too personal. We can't turn this in, okay? I got 60,000 words due tomorrow. And chatgpt is not really an answer.

[Sage Steele]

No, not for this.

[Leland Vittert]

And he goes, I said, dad, let me turn it around for you. I said, do you remember when I was diagnosed and that woman told you there was no hope just to meet me where I was, even though where I was was a disaster? He goes, uh huh. I said, what if rather than saying that she had handed you a copy of Born Lucky, he says, okay. I said she'd hand you a copy of Born Lucky and said, this isn't a prescription, it isn't a cure. This is just a story of what one father was able to do. He goes, I would have read it every week. I said, okay, we can do that for people. He says, fine, I get it. He says, but I'm not a hero. I said, then write that. Then write how you feel. And he wrote the afterword. He called me about an hour later with the afterwards, about 600 words. I think it's the best part of the book. But in it one of the things he talks about is the social media aspect and how parents now have to deal with so much more than they did when I was growing up.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion won. 20 million is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting for to take your call. 24, 7, 365.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Sage Steele]

Thank goodness you flipped that script on him and made him put, made, you know, like put yourself in another parent's shoes. What would you have done? Yeah, that's the reason why he greenlighted it, right? Yeah.

[Leland Vittert]

And you know, it's been amazing. I always joke with him about what's it like to be the subject of a New York Times best selling book and he hates it. I'm just a dad. I just did what any father would do.

[Sage Steele]

It's not true though.

[Leland Vittert]

I'm just a dad. And I said so what I've started doing now is I've forwarded him all the emails and letters that I've gotten about parents now who feel like they're not alone and are pushing their kids you more and it's totally changed him.

[Sage Steele]

Beautiful. So beautiful.

[Leland Vittert]

It's been good.

[Sage Steele]

You said you were elementary schoolish age when he decided to quit his job.

[Leland Vittert]

He did. He said, he said in his words, he said, I knew I didn't know how it was going to end up but I knew I was your only hope basically. And to be fair, we were in a position where he was able to quit his job and sell his companies and step Away from everything. The flip side is, and I asked him, I pushed him on this, and I said, you know, dad, there's a lot of people are going to read this book and say, well, that's great, but what about for all the parents who couldn't quit their jobs? What would you have done? He said, I would have worked the night shift. He said, I knew the only hope you had was for me to be there in the morning and at night. And I was gonna do anything I had to do to do that.

[Sage Steele]

What are your memories of coming home from school, walking home with your sister? You'd been in tears. Yeah. She's holding your hand.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Your dad's there waiting.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah. Every day.

[Sage Steele]

And what does that look like?

[Leland Vittert]

You know, there were a lot of days that he would just kind of hang out with me. There were a lot of days that I would sort of take the anger and the aggression and the hurt that had built up on him. There were a lot of days I just sort of cried. There were a lot of days I would just complain about how unfair it was. But he was there every day and that. And that was really. It was clear that he always had my back, that that was something that I needed, unquestionably. So he was there. And I think, again, you don't really realize the sacrifice. It's certainly not as a kid, because I never knew about it, but, you know, the idea that every night then he went and cried by himself, too, or not every night, but a lot of nights. I never knew that until we started working on the book and he didn't tell me. It was my mom who told me.

[Sage Steele]

When you heard that, how did that make you feel?

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, it's different. I think in. You may have experienced this, too. I certainly did. Is that once you start seeing your parent as a person rather than as a parent, I'm sure that's now really different for my sister because my sister now has her own child, Rachel. And I don't yet, but that really hit home for me. I didn't realize, I think, how hard it was on him through all this. And I think as a kid, there's no way to think about that or to understand that.

[Sage Steele]

When did you like going through those years? And dad was always there.

[Leland Vittert]

I didn't realize how hard it was on him until we wrote the book.

[Sage Steele]

But, I mean, was there a time in high school or was it in college later where it's like, man, most kids. Dads aren't there, aren't able to be

[Leland Vittert]

there, whatever it Is I think that it was always clear that he and I had a different relationship than most other kids. And that's remained true. I mean, he and I still talk a few times a day, which is different than most 43 year olds who have a career and everything else. He's still my best friend. When I was in college, there's a moment in Born Lucky when my freshman year of college, I got rejected from every one of the fraternities. I rushed and I called him. It was a snowy night at Northwestern in January. The last fraternity that I had tried to join said, thanks, you seem like a great guy, but we're not interested in you. Fine. So I walk out and I call my dad and I said to him, dad, now I'm just like you. Because all growing up, he had told me the story of him being rejected by every fraternity his freshman year. I think is a way to let me know that he understood what I was going through, the rejection and the difficulties and not having friends and everything else. So I called him, I said, I'm just like you. And then I said, I have to start realizing that it may be something about me. And that was the first time I realized that I needed to change. Yes. My dad said to me all the time, the currency and what's making you bullied in middle school is what's going to make you popular in life. Yes, there's truth to that. Yes, the human equation changes. You know, I never liked anyone who liked high school, because if high school was the best years of your life, yes, that. That's a problem. But I realized at that point I had to change in one way or another. I think the one thing my dad didn't tell me during all of that time, and probably because he didn't know, is that middle school is about the best training you can possibly get for a Washington newsroom.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, geez.

[Leland Vittert]

Because the values of Washington are equally screwed up to middle school. Yeah. And if you like Washington, there's something wrong also.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. You know, I'm. Again, throughout this whole process of learning more about you, I continue to try to put myself in your dad's shoes, your mom's shoes as well. Parents want to protect their kids, and obviously we know that we cannot at all times. But he was able to do that in many ways every single day. When you came home from school to be there and to literally and figuratively hug you and uplift you. And then you say, I'm going to Northwestern.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, well, yeah, I said, I'm going to Northwestern. And Then after that I said, I'm going to the CIA. And I decided not to go to the CIA because I knew if I was overseas and kidnapped or grabbed or whatever, arrested, it would be really hard on him. So I decided to do something safer, which was go be a Mideast correspondent for Fox News.

[Sage Steele]

Of course,

[Leland Vittert]

what I think was so

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

important

[Leland Vittert]

to your point about where your kids went to school, right? You said you can't go to school in the Northeast because you got to go see the world. You got to go experience something different. I have to push you out there. That was a lot of what my dad did. Right? You have to go back to school every day. You have to, you have to fight through this because if you do, you'll know you'll be able to fight through hard things later. And the sort of full circle moment in Born Lucky is at the end of 2020, I am the only Fox News anchor to question Donald Trump's claims of winning the election. So I'm invited to leave Fox News, kind of like private school. Invited not to return. I am. You may know something about that. It's an interesting experience. Then in the same six weeks, I end a long term relationship that I had had with a wonderful woman. So I no longer have a place to live, I no longer have a job, and I no longer have a primary relationship. And then about a week and a half after that, I got Covid and almost died. I was in the hospital for a week. It was a dark six weeks of life, man. So I get out of the hospital in January of 2021 and all of my possessions fit in a backpack.

[Sage Steele]

Oh my gosh.

[Leland Vittert]

So I fly down to my parents house in Florida and I'm sitting in their guest room, like living in their guest room. And Fox was still paying me because I had a contract, but I didn't have a job, I really didn't have a future. And one night I'm sitting out on the couch, you know, with my dad hanging out, feeling really sorry for myself. I've got about 5 or 8% lung function left and I'm just broken. And he looks at me and he goes, you're feeling sorry for yourself, aren't you? And I said, yeah, I am. And he goes, all right. He says, I get it. He says, but every day in eighth grade you went back to school, even after that teacher compared you disfavorably to his dog's ass. I said, uh huh. And he says, all right, you can get through this. And I think that is the lesson that parents have the ability to teach their kids, you can do hard things. And nobody's telling parents that right now. Everybody's telling parents, make life as easy as you can for your child because life's so hard. There's a big difference there.

[Sage Steele]

Huge. From that to. Or took some, you know, thought process changes, I guess when you had to say, all right, you're right. I gotta pull myself up by my bootstraps. Yeah, but also Northwestern, you've had to look yourself in the mirror several times and say, okay, I gotta change. I have to adjust this.

[Leland Vittert]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

What is the biggest change that you would say that you have made to yourself? And I don't know if it's how you communicate.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, it's how I compare it a little bit to being an alcoholic. Clearly there was something different, or is something different about how my mind sees the human equation. Right. It's why no kid wanted to be around me. It's why I thought that if a kid bumped into me, I should turn around and slug him. There's some wiring that I saw the human equation differently than the rest of the world does. And what the changes had to be is. Had to learn, A, how I'm seeing it's wrong, B, how to see it and practice it in the way that the world interacts, in the way the human equation works. And C, keep that discipline. And that if there's a theme of what my dad's been taught me through Born Lucky, it's that. Right? It's how to adapt to the world as best I can. Now, my wife would argue that's a process that is still very much in progress. And she wouldn't be wrong. I mean, it's a daily, hourly thought of how to interact with people, but it has become a learned skill and a discipline.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey. How's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said, 20 billion wonder. 20 million is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think, somewhere north. Probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting for to take your call. 247 365.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Sage Steele]

There's obviously so much that people with autism and certainly different levels but have to overcome and that you have.

[Leland Vittert]

We've acknowledged and I think this is, you know, it's right. There's so many people who have it so much harder. This book is Born Lucky is not a how to turn your autistic kid into a news anchor. Right. Yes, it is how every parent can show up and the power that every parent has to help their child be more and that no kid has to be defined by the diagnosis. No matter what the diagnosis is, don't have to be defined by it. The corollary is also true, which is if you allow yourself to be defined by the diagnosis or if you allow your child to. I can't because of whatever. I can't because of this. I can't, you know, then they will be defined by that forever. It will be forever how they define themselves.

[Sage Steele]

This is why parenting is so difficult. One of many examples.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah, I've heard this.

[Sage Steele]

But it is, I mean, you do have to stop and slow down and say, okay, because as parents, you want. What did we say earlier? You want to protect and you want to fix and make it all better.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And it's such a detriment when you do that. And I just think your parents did such a beautiful job. And most importantly, at the end then it's you when mom and dad aren't around. How did your diagnosis and your entire life help you? How did this help you?

[Leland Vittert]

It's a great question and I don't know the answer to it. And here's why. Because I don't know what it's like not to. You know, people have said to me, what's it like being an autistic news anchor? I don't know. I don't know what it's like to not be. I don't know what it's like. You know, what's it like to date on the autistic? I don't know. I don't know what it's like not to. So I don't know what it would be like otherwise. And I bristle a little bit when everybody's like, oh, this is your superpower. No, this is really hard. I mean, no one would wish this. And I think, you know, we're in this moment about where autism is now finally being discussed as how do we find a cause? Therefore, how do we find something that, you know, is there things that we can do or parents can do to prevent this?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Leland Vittert]

And there is this sort of theme of. And I saw this from Chris Hayes on MSNBC who said, you know, Robert F. Kennedy's obsessed. He's obsessed with finding the cause of autism. Well, why wouldn't we be obsessed? And, you know, if my wife was pregnant today and you gave me a box, I can check that my child would or would not be autistic.

[Sage Steele]

Of course.

[Leland Vittert]

Anybody would check.

[Sage Steele]

No, of course.

[Leland Vittert]

So I'm a little bit hesitant always when people sort of say, well, this is a superpower. We should. That doesn't mean you should say people can't do things. But it also means we need to acknowledge this isn't some, like, lottery ticket and, oh, boy, you should be happy and embrace this.

[Sage Steele]

No, for sure. And I ask that, having sat in similar chairs as you with, you know, a camera in front of me, and then, ready, go, or else you don't have a job. And I don't know what I have or don't have. I know that it is very difficult for me, and I like retaining information and then, like, it would take me four times as long as any other anchor as far as I knew, to prepare for every single show, two hours live, every single day. You know what that's like on national tv, and the pressure, and it's maddening, it's embarrassing, it's difficult. In many, many ways, this is what I need to focus my book on. But I learned to take it and appreciate it and say, okay, yeah, my brain's going in all different directions. But maybe that's helpful when you have a very important story, live interview you're doing, you have someone counting down in your ear how much time is left. You have a list of other questions. You have to figure all this out and edit in your head on the fly, live tv, or you don't have a job. So part of me thinks that my. Whatever this is, add, like, okay, not everybody can do that. Not everybody can do what you're doing. And so I agree. I don't know exactly how it's helped me, but I tend to think there are some gifts in the parts that I hate about myself or struggle with there's no more hatred. There was but struggle with. Do you know what I mean? There are positives to come, obviously. Look what you're doing now, and look what you're sharing from things that have been a struggle. And I think it is an evolution. And as we get older, we learn more and more. Like right now, I don't know that I would change. There's a few things I would change, but I don't know that I would change all of it, because it got me. It got me to today, you know,

[Leland Vittert]

And I think there's the question. Am I.

[Sage Steele]

See? You just made me share way too much.

[Leland Vittert]

Well, we can keep going.

[Sage Steele]

No, we can't stop.

[Leland Vittert]

No, I think what you're. You're picking up on is how in the same way so many parents are having such a hard time, there's so many people in our business who have this. And I'm always hesitant to ever sound like I'm complaining because it's such an unbelievable opportunity and gift to be able to do what we do. But I think you're right that there is so many people in the business, especially those starting out in TV news, broadly speaking, news journals or whatever you want to call it, who don't understand the insecurities and the difficulties and the feelings that so many people, even at the very top of their game, feel on a daily basis.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like anything that. I mean, anyone in any industry or just a homeless person walking on the street, like, every single one of us has a story.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And so when people see you and if they, you know, didn't know about your book, hadn't heard it, hadn't read it, it's like, oh, yeah, look at this guy. He's like, the first time you and I sat down on tv, I'm like, oh, my gosh, he's brilliant. He's super smart. He's smooth. He's. He makes me comfortable because he's conversational and listens. He actually listens to what I said. And it felt like a couple times

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

you threw out your next question and

[Sage Steele]

you just went with what I said. God forbid. That's journalism. But I think people say, oh, yeah, look, it's so. It's perfect. I mean, especially with his hair. What a life this young man leads. And people don't understand that every single person is dealing with something, which is why it is such a gift that you and your dad chose to push through on this, chose to go deep and get super uncomfortable, because that's what

[Leland Vittert]

it is there's a lot of uncomfortable moments. And I think what you realize, maybe what you're saying a little bit, is, you know, Instagram isn't real life. Maybe, you know, I keep trying to convince my wife of that. She'll show Instagram personality. It's not real life. Whatever people are putting out there is really not what real life is. And real life's hard. Really hard. And I think that Born Lucky really shows people and shows parents in particular. You're not alone. And there's real power in that, in knowing that huge.

[Sage Steele]

It's priceless. Do you want kids?

[Leland Vittert]

So I've been asked that question a number of times. It is answered in the books.

[Sage Steele]

And this is where I know, but the tease. This is called a tease. This is called the tease, right?

[Leland Vittert]

No, this is, I think, the hard part. And it has been something that I really struggled with, because I know, especially after now writing the book, I know how unbelievably hard it was for my dad and how much effort he put into it in the sacrifices, in the emotional difficulties and everything else. And what I'd say to you was that that was always and still is very scary to me. But I think there's also something really inspiring about it, too.

[Sage Steele]

I assume you and your wife talked about it before.

[Leland Vittert]

We talked about it a lot before we got married.

[Sage Steele]

And so she understands your hesitation.

[Leland Vittert]

And I talk to a lot of, you know, women that I've dated before. My wife, I always said I don't want kids because I don't think I can be the father that my dad was. And that is a bar. And I think it's one of the reasons dad has been so clear to me and sort of through the book about how he just feels like he did what any father would have done because he doesn't want to put that pressure on me.

[Sage Steele]

But you feel it.

[Leland Vittert]

Well, I'm sure there's a few psychologists who have a few things to say about that.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the world needs more of you.

[Leland Vittert]

Well, they need more of my dad. I don't know if they need more of me, but they need more of my dad.

[Sage Steele]

You can accept the compliment. The world needs more of you.

[Leland Vittert]

Thank you.

[Sage Steele]

And not just for what you're doing, but for how you're choosing. Choosing to do it. Thank you for that. I am beyond grateful.

[Leland Vittert]

And I for our friendship. This is fun. Good to see you.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you so much. Finally in person.

[Leland Vittert]

There we go.