A (2:49)

Oh, my.

B (2:50)

So obviously a very moving moment for all of us. You know, this had been looming over her head for so long, and to see her reaction and just the, you know, just what it did for her, I mean, that's just one of the, hopefully 12 to 15,000 people that this campaign will help. And we had similar stories last year. You know, we had a U.S. marine. His bill was 183 grand. He was a single father of three, had been partially paralyzed, and on the birthday of the Marine Corps, I got to text him and let him know, hey, man, we took care of that bill for 183 grand. So.

A (3:22)

That is unbelievable. That is unbelievable. Let me, let me ask you about that, too, because I can only imagine what it feels like for those recipients who didn't know how they were going to get through any of this financially, much less doing that while raising kids alone, et cetera. But with that woman, when you got on the plane with Matt, what was her reaction when you knocked on her door and shared that kind of news?

B (3:47)

Well, after the fact, she told us she was really nervous to meet us, which, you know, I didn't. You know, I guess maybe we're a little intimidating. But she got very emotional because when you leave the service, you almost feel like you're a bit expendable because, like, you know, they don't really worry about you anymore. And not that, like, I need them to worry about me, but, like, when you, when you leave that brotherhood, you feel like there's kind of a void and you're kind of on your own. And I think the biggest theme that she was talking about was like, I, I, this reminds me that I still have that support system, and we're. We are. We are all still part of that family. You know what I mean? And she Just was blown away. And she was like, honestly, like, I don't know what I would have done with it because like, she's like, if, if I eventually needed to move, like, I figured at some point, like, I can't just continue to pretend this doesn't exist. And, you know, I got to learn more because I called quite a few of the recipients last year and gave them the good news, like over the phone. And what I learned from these is that like, the negative effects that this has on their lives is, is, is really bad. You know, like their wages are getting garnished, they're getting collectors hitting them up. Join TikTok today and get your $20, no minimum spend voucher. Just download TikTok and search for get tick G E T t I k redeem your voucher and start shopping now. Only for new user from all different phone numbers and mail. Their credit goes below 600 so they can't get, like, if they want to, you know, heaven forbid they want to buy a car, it's 30 interest rate. And if they want to rent, you know, their apartment for the next year, renew their lease, like they won't. They got to get a co signer and all these things, you know, and they're, you know, one of the women was a single mother from Texas. She got like T bone driving to work. It wasn't her fault at all. Had to relearn all these basic skills. She's already working two jobs and then gets a bill she'll never be able to pay off. You know what I mean? And you know, there's, there wasn't a father picture in the mix. So she's doing all of this by herself. And you know, then daycare calls, the kids are sick and you gotta call off your shift and then you can't pay your bill. Like, these are, these are the real stories from people that, that this campaign helped. So that's why I was emotionally invested. Like, as soon as I started hearing the stories, I was like, all right, this is Great, we did 11 million. But like, I can't look away now. Like, I'm all in, right? Like, I, I, we have to make this bigger and I think we're gonna make it way bigger in the future. This is, you know, I still think this is just the beginning. And I was actually just in D.C. last week meeting with some lawmakers as well as the va and I basically said, hey, I have this giant data set from last year. We're going to have an even bigger data set this year. Why don't I share that with you and let's identify the shortfalls and potentially implement some policy from the lawmaker level. But with the va, can you use this database to fix, you know, some of the instances where the VA should have covered it and their claim was denied for like maybe someone hit the wrong key, you know, on the back end and as a clerical error or something like that. So we're going to try to attack this on multiple fronts. And you know, Sage, I feel an obligation to use our platform to do some good and particularly like those meetings with the senators and congressmen, like I, I know a normal person can just get those meetings. You know, I'm able to kind of use connections and just what I've done to be able to get those meetings. So it's like, all right, I have to use that for good. And they were really positive meetings. I'm going to go back up to D.C. in a few weeks and keep, you know, that going and, and hopefully that'll be more of a long term solution instead of just putting a band aid on the problem because the, the debt will just continue to grow.

A (7:08)

Sure. Exactly. And it's, it's just a cycle that these people can't seem to get out of and understandably so when the dollars are that high, the, the money that they owe, you know, it, it feels like you said, once you see this and see the need, you can't unsee it. And that is what continues to drive you. And $25 million is a lot more, more than double what you guys did a year ago. I have faith you can do it. But what is it going to take? Take us through the process of. Because it's all, it's 100% of proceeds. Correct. From Born Primitive and Black Rifle Coffee.

B (7:45)

Yeah. So from born primitive.com and blackrifflecoffee.com from now until midnight on Tuesday, which is Veterans Day. So basically, you know, what it takes is all the customers coming out and, and realizing that every little bit goes towards the cause and, and, and in the aggregate it is doable. And you know, we got momentum last year because we got a lot of media from it as well as a lot of people really on social media, everyone was sharing it, it went viral. Right. And it's such a feel good story. It's like, wait, I can go shop. And it's like kind of some, it's some nice guilt free shopping, you know what I mean? Particularly if you have a, if you got a significant other and you might normally be in the doghouse. Like, this is a great chance to maybe be like, well, babe, hey, I, you know, it's for a good ca. Buy something for them too.

A (8:28)

So let me, let me attest to the quality of the product because you're an apparel and footwear brand and when I got to try some of yours because you were kind enough to send it obsessed, and because quite often the stuff that I really loved and wore the most had American flag or some sort of patriotic symbol on it. And the number of times I got stopped was super cool. So to the men out there looking for something for your woman, trust me when I say this is something that she would love. Not only does it look good, and listen, I'm snobby about quality. You can hate me for it, but quality matters. And so anyway, 100% of what both of you sell during that window goes to build towards this 25 mil.

B (9:11)

Yep. And then there's an entity called Forgive Co who were partnered with and they facilitate the debt purchase. So we basically send the money to them and then they go to the debt collect collectors and do the transactional part of it. And that's exactly what we did last year. And it's really cool because every recipient recipient will get a certified letter in the mail letting them know like, hey, this is legit. You know, it's on the letterhead and has us and it'll have black rifle coffee on there. And then they'll also get, you know, called on the phone and emailed as well. But that was kind of funny because, you know, with, with. With Mara, who's the girl I went visited in Denver, she thought it was a prank at first. Right. So we're trying to let her know, like, I know nothing is free in this world, that this is time, this is. There's no catch. There's no strings attached. Hey, if, if you run off and never talk to me, like, the bill is. Has already been paid, so you, you know, you're good. So, but it's really cool. And then, and then ForgiveCo will give us like the overall impact report which tells how many recipients and the total debt and all that stuff. So it's pretty neat. They actually had a cool video last year. They were printing off all the debt letters on their, this giant commercial printer. And they're all just, you know, getting shot out the side, you know, like, you know, five at a time. And just, it was a stack of like 5,800 letters like, you know, getting printed through their database. And like, I was like, wow, that's. That's freaking awesome because those people are like, imagine when they get that letter in the mail, hopefully they open it and realize it's, it's real.

A (10:33)

Right?

B (10:33)

But some of the recipients, it was cool. When I talked to them, they were like, hey, I knew something was up because my credit shot up a hundred points like two days before I got the letter. And they're like, you know, that was one girl, she was like, I, I had no idea. Like, what did I. I've done nothing different. She's like, what happened? And then she letter and she was like, oh, that must have been.

A (10:50)

Wow.

B (10:51)

So that's pretty cool because not only does it remove this burden, but then it, you know, it puts him in a little bit better position financially for other aspects of their finances. Right? So that, that was kind of a cool thing I learned about through the process.

A (11:04)

That's a really great point though about people saying, okay, yeah, right. What, what else comes along with this? You know, like there, there, there's more. It can't be quite this simple. It's like Publishers Clearinghouse. Remember those envelopes we'd get in the mail because yes, you won $3 million. And it's like, yes, if you give me your second born child and your right arm, then you get half of that right? This is really real. One thing that I've noticed as a proud army brat and growing up on army bases around the world, I think one of the best things about veterans for the most part is their humility and the pride that they have, which therefore might prevent them from asking for help. So maybe you can give us some perspective on the statistics of the number of veterans approximately that really, really are struggling to pay medical bills.

B (12:00)

We don't know the exact number right now, Sage, but we're looking into that because we had a really exciting call when I brought black rifle coffee into this and we had like, you know, the companies together on one call. We talk. All right, what is the long term vision here? And we threw out the hypotheticals. Is there a scenario where two civilian veteran owned companies could eradicate 100 of veteran medical bill debt in the United States through their own actions and by leveraging the platform we've both built to bring in the new customers to, to, you know, to go towards the effort and, and we need to research what that number is. I know it's north of at least 800 million right now, but hey, is there a way we could hit it from two angles? Maybe I work with the VA and we maybe get the VA to forgive some of that while we, you know, through our own efforts, can provide, you know, some financial impact towards it, you know, from what we're doing right now. So we'll see. I know I'm a big idea guy. I know Evan and Matt are over at Black Rifle, so I. I can't make any promises yet, but what I can say is that I'm not going anywhere anytime soon on this. I know I'm going to want to do this next year. And as soon as this thing is done, I'm going to be immediately debriefing and say, okay, what can we do better? How can we bring even more firepower to this next year with maybe even bigger companies, right, that have a huge philanthropic goal, that see that. I mean, maybe you get the NFL, maybe you get, you know, Budweiser. I don't know. You know what I mean?

A (13:29)

Maybe the solutions, because the potential really is there. Quite often it's just getting out there. Last year, I remember watching you on Fox and Friends, I think it was, and your cat and your flannel shirt out there and educating people about what is there. Because I know for a fact people sometimes just. They want to help, but they don't know how to help. So. So this, to me is such. Is a. Is a really easy way. I also want to give people perspective. Many people already know who you are, but for those who don't, with Born Primitive, which is a relatively young company, wasn't it 2014 when you started?

B (14:02)

Correct.

A (14:03)

So it's really young, but the success you've had is so impressive. So again, apparel, footwear brand, what was it like? Why that industry? Why that business? When you go from being a Navy.

B (14:16)

SEAL to apparel, it was so random. Sage. So I actually started it three months before I joined the Navy, which I don't recommend to anyone. And it was supposed to just be a prototype for a pair of compression swords that I developed that was specific for Olympic weightlifters. You know, I was doing CrossFit and Olympic weightlifting at the time time. And it was literally supposed to be one of one. I had my neighbor who was a seamstress stitch it for me while I drank a gin and tonic with her husband on the back deck. And that was. That was. It was supposed to end there. And then I wore it to the gym and the guys were like, hey, you should market that. There's a, you know, there's a niche market for that in the Olympic lifting community. So I did a little research and I said, so. Then I read a couple books on supply chain I said, let me take a swing at this. I ordered 200 units, and then I shipped off to officer candidate school with the Navy, and. And I was slinging compression shorts while I was in boot camp doing my thing. And then I remember, then we did a reorder for 500, and then you order a thousand, and before you know it, like, wow, this. It's a little business, and it's super niche still, but, like, it's. It's starting to be a real business. And then just little by little, you just grow it. And then we expanded into athleisure and, you know, performance athletic wear. You know, the leggings, the sports bras, flannels, jeans, tactical outdoor footwear. Like, it just kind of went crazy. But for the first eight years, you know, just under eight years, I was active duty the whole time. So it was just. I mean, it was like a side hustle that kind of turned into a little beast and wasn't such a side hustle. By the time I got out of the service, I was like, man, I can't do both anymore. And that was a big reason why I got out. I had. I had a little girl on the way, too. So it was, you know, multiple reasons why I had to. Had to hang up the body armor. But. But, yeah, it was. It was. It was. It was a tough sled in there, particularly the first four or five years.

A (15:56)

Well, I am just now learning about running your own business, and I sometimes want to run the opposite direction. Like, what was I thinking? This is a whole new world and so rewarding because you get to do what you do now, which is to be creative and come up with ideas. Anything. I mean, you can try anything. And just one idea is now helping thousands of veterans, potentially millions of veterans. I also want to point this out because it's still the best cool gift swag box I've ever gotten in my life. That was a little over a year ago, and it was for D Day. Right? Can you. I don't want to screw this up. Can you share with everybody again what Born Primitive was a part of with so many incredible veterans?

B (16:41)

Yeah, that was a fun one. So for the 80th anniversary of D Day, we did a limited edition D Day Savage One. Savage One is our training shoe. So we put a bunch of D Day kind of stuff on it, like, 6 6, 1944, 0630, which was the time the operation started and all these cool things. Operation Overlord. But we sent it in an ammo can, and with it, we had. We Got sand from Omaha Beach. So the. The French government allowed us to take 10 kilos of sand back. And so we got a little vial of sand. You got a limited edition challenge coin for the 80th. And then we donated 50 grand from the profits to help fund. There was over 50 World War II vets that were going back for a battlefield return through the Best Defense foundation, which is a charity that we support, a great charity. I mean, they take these guys back to, you know, all these different areas in Europe and I think the Pacific. So we wanted to be a part of that. So we said, hey, let's make a limited edition shoe and help fund these guys travel over there. And then we got little baseball cards of the different service members that were on the trip. And it had them when they were like 19 years old in their army uniform. And then it. You flip the picture, you know, the card over, and it's them present day, and it has all their accolades. So it was a cool little commemorative pack. And then there was the order from Eisenhower and in a little envelope from, you know, the order for D Day and all written out. So we tried to, like, make it like a commemorative piece and just, you know, make it a little bit more about than. Than just the shoes and then the impact and the stories of the individuals that it was helping. So we try to do. There's a lot more of that coming in 2026 as well, because I always want to try to be doing stuff like that because honestly, it's a win win. It allows us to leverage our platform to do some good and support cool organizations like that. But it also helps bring new people that otherwise might not have seen born primitive and say, wow, they're actually leveraging their platform to do some good. And hey, their ethos aligned with mine. Like, hey, let me go check them out.

A (18:37)

Yeah, no, it was so special and so creative, I was shocked. I actually still have it in my living room.

B (18:43)

Oh, cool. Love it.

A (18:45)

So special. Listen, you mentioned your daughter. I love following you on Instagram because of those photos. She is definitely a daddy's girl. And wrapped around this pinky finger, probably you're right. I mean, final question as far as, we'll dig deep another time when I come in person. But, you know, she's watching as you do all this. She might not be receiving it, you know, the way that she will in 10 years when she's a teenager, you know, or a young adult. Like, what do you hope that she takes someday from watching her dad do what he is doing today?

B (19:25)

Well, I hope I set a good example. You know, I think when you have a little girl running around, it's interesting to think because, like, you have to set the standard for hopefully what they will eventually date one day. And that's a big, that's a big responsibility. And I never had thought of it like that before. And she's only four and a half, but, you know, I think about that a lot. Right. And, and as we know, like, more is caught than taught. Right. So I can't say, oh, just do this, this and this. But if I'm not, you know, living by those ethos, then it doesn't matter. So I'm excited. You know, I think she's so young right now, she doesn't see anything that I do. She, she knows, she doesn't know what a nav is there any of these other things. But as she gets older, particularly at Born Primitive, I'm really excited to bring her around the workplace and, you know, sit in on a marketing meeting, sit in on a product meeting. When we're going over the campfire collection, like when we're looking at fabric swatches, like, you know, have her in there even when she's 10 years old, so she starts getting exposed to that because I want her to see, doing my thing. But also then you have to do the not so sexy stuff. Like, if we're moving, we might need to move firewood in the yard and mow the lawn and pull weeds. Like, I, I, even though I can pay someone to do that now, when it's time for, like, we're gonna go out there at 8 o' clock in the morning on a Saturday, and we're gonna do it. And I'm not gonna want to because I'm gonna say, all right, I've done okay financially. I don't ever need to do this myself. But I have to set the example because that's what I did growing up with my parents. And I know that at the time I didn't realize it, that was instilling those values in me that made me resilient and, and driven and, and hopefully humble. So, yeah, I'm, it's a big responsibility, but I'm having an absolute blast with it. I mean, you know, with, with your kids, that, that love is something you cannot quantify. And it's my purpose, it's my reason for being on this earth now. And, and that's a, that's a huge motivator and I'm just having so much fun with it. She's got me all figured out. You should see the shoes. I have this little step in the living room, and there's, I think, 25 pairs of shoes right now. She's got cowgirl boots and this and that, and. And I'm like, man, from 15 to 25, I'm gonna have to have, like, a special savings account because I know that's going to get real expensive when she starts figuring out there's a little plastic thing that you can just use as a magic wand for anything she wants. But we'll. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

A (21:42)

You are setting her future husband up for failure. Well, good.

B (21:48)

I. I don't want her to get married, so hopefully he fails. No.

A (21:51)

Yeah, talk to me in about 15 years, bear. We'll be talking and we'll be like, okay, get her out just for a couple of years and never come back. No, honestly. And, you know, my kids are now 19, 21, 23, and they watch everything. They see everything good, bad, and ugly. What? She gets to see that. Like, I hope you can also take her on some of those trips to go present the check to see someone's reaction to what her dad did. Like, that's going to be beautiful. And that's when you better have a camera crew behind you to document all this beautiful footage, or else if not, I'm going to kick your butt. Because that stuff is special. I mean, and I'm being serious, because when you're long gone. So if you're like great, great, great grandchildren, for them to see where all of this began is going to be a beautiful thing. So now I'm going to cry in the middle of the day. 1. Can you give people another reminder of what this is? November 7th through 11th? They can go where to help.

B (22:42)

Yeah. So go to Born primitive dot com. Go to Black riflecoffee dot com. Get anything you want on the site. All of it will be pledged towards reaching that $25 million medical bill debt payoff goal from. From both companies. So the Black Rifle is going to do 12.5. We'll do 12.5. Hopefully in the aggregate, we'll reach 25. It's a great, you know, cost to shop, you know, for apparel. For those that don't know who we are, we have apparel for every activity. We have hunting, tactical athleisure, flannels, jeans, workout attire, workout shoes. I mean, literally everything, you know, comfy sweatpants. So I promise you, if you go to the site, you'll find something you like. You might get a little overwhelmed with Choice. But, but, but I, I want to make it clear that this is made possible because of the customers. We can't do this every year if people don't go, you know what? I love that cause I'm gonna go support it. I'm simply facilitating it, you know, now has a lot of work gone into it. Yes, but at the end of the day, the reason we had the impact we did last year was because people came out and shopped the cause. And when you, when you, you know, pull that together in the aggregate, it. It ended up being an incredible impact. And I don't even want to say we're going to do north of 25, but I hope when the dust settles Wednesday morning, I'm having to call Black Rifle and say, holy crap, what do you guys think? You know what I mean? So, you know, and, and maybe there's a higher number that we can hit. But, but it's a little. You gotta be a little careful because with Black Friday right around the corner, like, you can't, like.

A (24:05)

Okay, that's a good point.

B (24:06)

Totally go two nuts because you have to save some inventory. But that'd be a great problem to have. That would mean we reached a lot of people, and then we're impacting, you know, thousands of people, thousands of veterans.

A (24:17)

And I know that you will announce it on all your social media platform. So where can we find you on socials, etc?

B (24:22)

Yeah, so just check out Born Primitive, Check out Black Rifle. I'm at Bear Hanlon. I'll probably be on a lot of the content, so if you're following us, you'll be tracking. And then we'll have some of the stories of some of the recipients from this year, you know, portrayed on. On Social as well. Like, we did a video with, with Mara in Denver, and then we had another local recipient here in Virginia beach who was on the list. So we met her in town, she brought her husband, and it was emotional, and we gave her a big hug and, you know, so you'll see some of the actual stories, which I think is important because it really humanizes it. And that's what happened to me when I was calling these people. I mean, it was like, it hit me in the heart like a sledgehammer. When you're hearing this single mother who was just like, so stressed out, working two jobs, no help, and her wages are getting garnished and this and that. And then, you know, you. You give her the news on the phone and then you hear silence for three seconds, and then you realize, because she's crying. You know what I mean? And then she's saying, why are you helping me? I don't deserve this. I've done nothing. No, it's a. You do deserve this. You served your country. And why I like, you know, why we picked medical debt is because no one deliberately incurs medical debt. It happens because of an unforeseen event in your life. Whether, you know, it's a car accident or a rare illness or whatever it is. You don't wake up one day saying, oh, today's a good day to go in debt for medical bills. So that's why I really like it, because it's like, you know, this is just trying to help out people who caught a bad break, but it was at no fault of their own. So, yeah, I think it'll be. It'll be cool. And particularly around the holidays, you know, that can bring a lot of financial distress to people. Particularly, you know, imagine that single mom that has three kids and, like, the kids want presents from Santa, and she's already working two jobs, and she's thinking, man, how am I going to. I'm already maxing out my credit card. I'm doing the minimum payment because my wages are getting garnished, and now I got to buy them Christmas presents, and I don't want to disappoint them. And, you know, so this is, like, that's the stuff that gets me fired up. When you really think about, like, you drill down on. On the real personal impact, you know, around a time that brings a lot of additional financial stress anyway. And then if you talk about veteran suicide, that's a whole nother story. We know that is a major contributing factor to veteran suicide. It's at least one of the components. So of that cohort of 5,800 people, man, is there one person on that list that maybe this saved? I don't know. Of course, I'll never know, but I. There's probably a good chance, you know what I mean, if we saved one life from this. So that's what fires me up, and that's why I'm so invested in keeping this going.

A (26:46)

We're gonna put it at the bottom. Born primitive. Born primitive.com and black rifle coffee, correct?

B (26:53)

Yes, correct.

A (26:55)

Bear, my friend, thank you so much for taking the time and for all that you do for so many people and. And for your service. That's where all this began. So God bless you, and I will see you soon with all the money. Come in on your socials.

B (27:10)

I'll have to come see and put on the fuzzy socks one of these days.

A (27:14)

Hey, guys, real men aren't afraid of fuzzy.

B (27:17)

I'm ready. Do you have American flag fuzzy socks, or do I need to bring my own?

A (27:22)

I will have them created. We see. We just. We need to be doing business together so I can.

B (27:27)

Yeah, well, I could wear the 1776 fuzzy socks. Maybe we can get those custom made to match the flag behind you.

A (27:34)

Okay, now we have to make this happen.

B (27:36)

There we go.

A (27:37)

Thank you, Bear. God bless you.

B (27:39)

Thanks so much, Sage. Good talking to.