Samantha Ponder Breaks Her Silence Since ESPN Firing (FIRST Interview) | The Sage Steele Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: Samantha Ponder Breaks Her Silence Since ESPN Firing (FIRST Interview) | The Sage Steele Show

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Sage Steele Show
• Host/Author: Sage Steele Productions
• Episode: Samantha Ponder Breaks Her Silence Since ESPN Firing (FIRST Interview)
• Release Date: July 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply personal and groundbreaking episode of The Sage Steele Show, host Sage Steele sits down with longtime friend and ESPN personality Samantha Ponder. This marks Samantha's first public discussion regarding her firing from ESPN after a 14-year tenure. The conversation delves into the circumstances surrounding her dismissal, the emotional toll it took, and the transformative journey that followed.

The Firing: Circumstances and Immediate Reactions

Samantha introduces the topic with heartfelt emotion, highlighting the significance of this first interview. Sage Steele begins by addressing her own firing from ESPN, providing context for Samantha's situation.

Sage Steele [02:00]: "The fact that we're here together and this is going to be heard by other people is what's shocking."

Sage explains that her termination stemmed from her support of transgender women in sports, specifically referencing a tweet where she retweeted Paula Scanlon's story about Leah Thomas, a transgender athlete. The company's discomfort with her stance led to a swift and impersonal dismissal.

Sage Steele [04:45]: "They were uncomfortable with me talking about the trans women in women's sports issue and that they weren't gonna allow me to misgender people."

Personal Impact and Emotional Toll

The discussion shifts to the profound personal effects of losing her career. Sage shares her initial disbelief and the subsequent realization of how intertwined her identity was with her professional role. Both Sage and Samantha recount moments of vulnerability, including tears shed during the interview.

Sage Steele [11:21]: "There is a trans issue... it was really hard to figure out who I was because I was constantly trying to manage expectations of, like, how will people perceive this?"

Samantha empathizes, drawing parallels between their experiences and emphasizing the importance of personal growth over professional achievements.

Friendship and Support

A significant portion of the conversation celebrates the enduring friendship between Sage and Samantha. They reminisce about their shared history, mutual support, and how Samantha's courage inspired Sage to confront her own challenges.

Samantha Ponder [34:48]: "And I know you know this. I got a lot. And I know you know this."

Their bond serves as a pillar of strength, illustrating the power of solidarity in navigating professional and personal upheavals.

Lessons Learned and Personal Growth

Sage reflects on the lessons gleaned from her firing, expressing gratitude for the forced hiatus that allowed her to reconnect with her faith, family, and authentic self. She acknowledges the struggles with identity and the realization that true fulfillment comes from within, not external validation.

Sage Steele [28:44]: "It's never too late. I'm so glad I just shut up."

Samantha adds her insights on the importance of speaking up with kindness and honesty, advocating for diversity of thought and compassionate communication within corporate environments.

Samantha Ponder [112:28]: "If you can tell the truth from a place of love, do it now."

Rebuilding Life and Future Aspirations

The duo discusses their transition into new life phases, focusing on homeschooling, family bonding, and spiritual growth. Sage shares plans to travel with her children, aiming to provide them with meaningful experiences and instill values of independence and resilience.

Sage Steele [77:55]: "Because I was living on sand. And when it went away, like, literally, it's gone like that."

Samantha echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the shift from professional pressures to nurturing her children's development and well-being.

Samantha Ponder [87:25]: "I don't know what's coming next. But I just know that I will never ever, not for a second regret spending more time with them."

Conclusion

The episode culminates in a heartfelt exchange of gratitude and affirmation between Sage and Samantha. They underscore the importance of authenticity, compassion, and faith in overcoming adversity. The conversation serves as an inspiring testament to personal resilience and the enduring power of supportive relationships.

Sage Steele [121:22]: "God is faithful when we are not. Like, I messed so much stuff up, and he was still there."

Samantha Ponder [124:32]: "And I thank you for trusting me because I know that this is not anything you wanted to talk about because it's painful."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Sage Steele Show offers a raw and unfiltered exploration of career setbacks, personal reinvention, and the unwavering strength found in genuine friendships. Sage and Samantha's candid dialogue provides listeners with valuable insights into navigating professional challenges while prioritizing personal growth and familial bonds.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sage Steele [02:00]: "The fact that we're here together and this is going to be heard by other people is what's shocking."
• Sage Steele [04:45]: "They were uncomfortable with me talking about the trans women in women's sports issue and that they weren't gonna allow me to misgender people."
• Sage Steele [28:44]: "It's never too late. I'm so glad I just shut up."
• Samantha Ponder [34:48]: "And I know you know this. I got a lot. And I know you know this."
• Samantha Ponder [112:28]: "If you can tell the truth from a place of love, do it now."
• Sage Steele [121:22]: "God is faithful when we are not. Like, I messed so much stuff up, and he was still there."
• Samantha Ponder [124:32]: "And I thank you for trusting me because I know that this is not anything you wanted to talk about because it's painful."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Impact of Corporate Culture: Both hosts highlight how corporate policies and activist pressures can lead to abrupt career changes, emphasizing the need for transparency and consistency in addressing sensitive issues.

2. Personal Resilience: The episode underscores the importance of personal growth, faith, and supportive friendships in overcoming professional setbacks and rediscovering one's identity.

3. Authentic Communication: Sage and Samantha advocate for honesty and compassion in expressing diverse viewpoints, stressing that truth spoken with kindness can foster understanding and change.

4. Family and Faith: Transitioning away from high-profile careers allows for stronger familial bonds and deeper spiritual connections, providing a foundation for future personal fulfillment.

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For more inspiring conversations and deep dives into personal journeys, subscribe to The Sage Steele Show on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Samantha Ponder]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. It has been almost exactly a year since ESPN fired Samantha Ponder, longtime host of NFL Countdown. More importantly, one of my best friends on the planet. An incredible soul who really bears all in this conversation. This is the first time she's publicly talked about anything related to the firing. How it happened, how it felt, but most importantly how it changed her. What she's learned about herself, what she has been doing since then, and the struggle to figure out what's next. There were a lot of tears in this one, I will admit, from both of us. I don't know that I've ever sat down with somebody who chose to reveal as much and be as vulnerable as Samantha was about things that, you know, what are a lot more important than what we do for a living on TV or elsewhere. So I, I, I know you're gonna enjoy this one. Samantha is an incredible soul who has inspired me and continues to do so. Enjoy every moment of my conversation with the one and only Samantha Ponder, speaking for the first time. The fact that we are here together, face to face. I can't hug you. This mic's in the way.

[Sage Steele]

I'm already sweaty. Hi. The fact that we're here together is actually not shocking. The fact that we're here together and this is going to be heard by other people is what's shocking.

[Samantha Ponder]

Bingo. Yes, exactly. The funny thing is, I think a lot of people know our friendship goes way, way, way back to when we were, well, some of us were children. I was not to the Scripps National Spelling bee in Washington, D.C. in 2011. I think that's what we determin.

[Sage Steele]

All the true intellectuals meet, obviously, yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

It'S a spelling bee and we were just like, what did they just spell?

[Sage Steele]

It was very intimidating. The kids were legitimately smarter than me and they were like nine years old. It was, it was rough.

[Samantha Ponder]

Listen, let's just get right to it, honestly, because I think everybody knows now. You were fired from espn, the job that you worked for how long?

[Sage Steele]

I was at ESPN for 14 years, and then I'd been in the industry for 20.

[Samantha Ponder]

So, yeah, I know you've got fired, but I think the reason why and the way it was done is something that if you're comfortable sharing, I think people need to know, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, so can I back up?

[Samantha Ponder]

You go wherever you want to go.

[Sage Steele]

So some of my feelings, because I think a lot of people have asked me, like, did you see it coming? Did you, you know, think this was going to happen? I kind of knew it was possible for a little over a year because summer of 2023, I had tweeted, you're kind of a part of this whole story. I had tweeted or retweeted at the time, Paula Scanlon, who was a swimmer at UPENN with Leah Thomas, her story. She had shared her story, and I tweeted something to the effect of, like, it's worth listening to her story. This is really powerful. I didn't really think that was gonna get much of a response, but it did. We got between that tweet and I think there was maybe one or two, like, replies to other people that I thought were fairly innocuous at the time. But we both got the same email.

[Samantha Ponder]

Within about 30 seconds of each other.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it was a form email. We didn't realize. It was kind of funny. I'm glad that we had the connection where we were, like, sharing, because when you sent me the screenshot of your email, I was like, that's the exact same email I got. Which, this is terrible, but kind of made me feel a little better. I'm like, I got a buddy in this. I'm not alone, that said essentially that they were uncomfortable with me talking about the trans women in women's sports issue and that they weren't gonna allow me to misgender people. And it was a decently long email. I wrote back immediately. I'd never heard from this boss before.

[Samantha Ponder]

I will say this introduction, one of the top. Top. Top.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, yeah, this was coming from the top where you see that name and it's like, oh, here we go. And I just wrote back and said, basically, can you be specific? Because I still didn't think. I mean, I hadn't said anything like mean spirited. I basically was trying to give more spotlight, whatever limited spotlight I had to these girls stories, whether it was Riley Gaines or Paula, because I just felt like, you know, I wasn't seeing it on SportsCenter. And anyway, so I didn't. I honestly didn't think that was that big of a deal. But then when I got the email, obviously I knew it was, and so I just asked for clarification. I said, you know what? What exactly did I say that is against company policy? And the truth is, he responded within minutes saying, I'm I'm actually not sure. I'll get back to you on that. So I was like, did I just get scolded? And the person scolding me doesn't know why? Like, this is strange.

[Samantha Ponder]

Amazing in writing, too, to put.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it was a choice. So then the next week, I got a detailed email that went through at the time on Twitter. You know, you could see what people liked or favorited. And so I. They told me that I had favorited a tweet of Megyn Kelly's. This isn't verbatim. Someone can check me on this. But I think the tweet just said, men don't need gynecologists. There was some story about women waiting in line behind a trans person at a gynecologist, and people were fired up. And I thought, like, that is something that I think we've all agreed upon since the beginning of gynecology. I don't know. I don't know my gynecologist history, but I didn't think that was a big deal. I had just favorited it. In some ways, I thought it was funny because of how ridiculous it is. Any woman who's been to the gynecologist can understand that, I think. And they basically just went through anything I'd ever tweeted or favorited that they thought was offensive and warned me, you know, this is. We're not doing this. And it was couched in corporate speak. You know, I'm sure maybe a lawyer or two had looked over it. And so I wrote a really long email and, like, was, you know, firing off all my thoughts. And then I saved it as a draft, and I didn't send anything. And I knew then that I was kind of. I was on the clock, if you will. That had come from back during Women's History Month. The company had asked me if I could record a short video of myself talking about the woman who was most inspirational to me for Women's History Month. And I knew immediately, because I had just seen all the stuff she had done, that I wanted it to be Riley Gaines and the chicken that I am. And don't get me wrong, I love my mom, but I was like, I'll just do my mom, you know, and my mom is inspiring. But I knew deep down that in that moment, I was supposed to talk about Riley. So I did a little self censorship there. And then, as you know, they did a feature on Leah Thomas for Women's History Month that just did something to me. Like, it. I don't know why it's like, kind of emotional to me. But, like, man, there's so many incredible women that have dealt with all the struggles that come that are unique to womanhood. And for the company to basically say, we're going to take that spot, we're going to give it to someone who by their own admission, has only, quote, unquote, become a woman within the last year.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, it was Will Thomas on the team the year before. And I'm hearing the stories from these girls who were in the locker room saying, I had to get undressed in front of a fully intact male 18 times a week. And we're a company that cares about, I thought, feminists and girl power. And we've got all these women in positions of power. Like, we're not going to listen to that voice. We're not gonna platform that voice to say, hey, man, I'm uncomfortable with this. We're gonna silence those people. So anyway, that was a long version of saying that was sort of the start of all of it was in 23. And then last year in August, when the boxer Olympic situation happened and the woman that he was boxing came out and said, enough. I just wrote, enough is what all we should all be saying.

[Samantha Ponder]

And on Twitter.

[Sage Steele]

On Twitter. And I knew when I sent that, like, this isn't gonna go over well. But, like, to me, that's abuse. You have a male in a boxing ring with a female literally beating her.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And we're just supposed to, like, yay in the name of inclusion. Like, no. What? What about her? What about her? And so I sent it. And then the next week, I was, strangely, at a store down the street from our house getting, like, NFL sweats. They had, like, NFL gear at this store for my son to get the season started. Because it was three weeks before the season, and I got a text that said, can you jump on a call with this person and this person in, like, an hour? And one of the bosses is someone I never hear from. And I was like, this is it. But I do want to say, to be sure, I do not believe, nor have I ever believed, that I was solely fired for this. I think the model of my career at that point of only working Sundays in the fall on Countdown was not what ESPN wanted. And they felt like they were paying me too much money to do just one thing. And I had turned down opportunities in the past to. To work more and do more because of the season of life I'm in. Like, I got three little kids, and I'm not giving up that time with them for any opportunity. So I had been really clear on my boundaries with work. So I really don't think me losing my job was solely because of that, but the timing of it almost certainly was. And I was told after the fact, you know, privately, that most people at the top of the company did agree with me on this issue, but that.

[Samantha Ponder]

There is a trans issue.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, but that there is a loud activist group at Disney, and they were not happy with me. So I can say all that and tell this, you know, part of the story and still say to you, sage, like, it's one of the best things that ever happened to me. I was on that hamster wheel, and I was not gonna jump off on my own. I needed to get kicked off. So as much as the part of the reasoning behind it I think is legit crazy, I feel no bitterness or even, frankly, sadness. Like, I had a great career. Like, I was 20 years in that business. I met some awesome people, and there are still some really great people there. Never thought this would kind of be the way out, but I should have spoken up a long time before. I should have been a lot more courageous when I knew what was right. It's been one of the struggles of my life is, like, when you know something's right and you just kind of wait, like, oh, maybe there'll be a better time, or it'll feel easier. No, I still feel scared. I feel scared right now. I'm, like, talking to one of my best friends, like, sweating, because I'm not used to talking about anything outside of sports. You are trained in that company, especially certain people. You are not allowed to speak about any other issue. You're not allowed to go on other shows. You're not, like, just stick to the script. And the script is sports. And I did that, and I wanted to do that. That was my world. All I knew was sports, but I thought this was sports. We're talking about female collegiate athletes, Olympic athletes. And it's wrong to shine a spotlight on that and give another voice, another opinion. I wasn't against debate or healthy discussion. I just didn't want anybody telling me, like, no, no, you can't talk about that. Yeah, you can't. And I wasn't even really giving my own opinions about it. More as much as I was saying, listen to these girls. They're in the locker rooms. Why did their opinions not deserve a platform when we're giving awards for Women's History Month to someone born male? I. I couldn't understand it. I still don't understand it.

[Samantha Ponder]

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[Sage Steele]

That was a one time invite one and done. Right.

[Samantha Ponder]

I mean, I was there from day one with that just because I was there from the beginning helping with it. And that's all it was, was about women and uplifting and supporting and promoting and how do we get more WNBA highlights on Support center, like all these things. So I think we both thought, I know I'm not speaking for you, but I mean, in our conversations over the years, like, we both thought, we gotta be voices. We have these platforms that, yes, we worked hard, but God has given us these platforms that, what a shame if we don't use them for the most important things, not just football and basketball and baseball. Right?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

I literally didn't think I was doing anything wrong at the beginning. I don't feel like, like you did either thought that you were doing something wrong. It was like, no, these girls need help and we have a voice in the sports world.

[Sage Steele]

It's. It was just so obvious. Like, I grew up especially around all my, My dad's a coach, coached all boys for the most part. And like, these are, these are observable truths. These aren't things. When people are like, we need more research. I'm like, do we though? Because, like, we have eyes. Like, we can see the differences. I have a son. Like, I, these are my. Living with a, I've lived with a professional athlete now for 12 years. We are built differently in so many ways. And those differences should be celebrated. They do not mean inequality. We are equal in value, but we are built different. And for, I believe since the beginning of time, we've all just agreed on these observable truths. And then suddenly we are told, don't believe your lion eyes. It doesn't matter what you see. And frankly, girls, it doesn't matter what you feel. Because those girls at Penn were going to the athletic administration and saying, I'm uncomfortable with this. And they were told, you need therapy. We'll Send you to therapy. We're gonna. We're gonna fix the way you're thinking and feeling instead of. Yeah, I could see how, you know, someone born female wouldn't want to get dressed in front of someone male. Yeah. Like, these are. It almost feels ridiculous to say it does. Like, the fact that we're still discussing this, and I understand why, because it's so prevalent, and we are losing medals, and, you know, they went from the, like, this isn't happening to now. It's like, it's just a few people. And then it became, like, hundreds and hundreds, maybe even into the thousands now. And now it's like, it doesn't matter. You know, it's. Why do you care? Why do you care, Sage? Like, it's. Instead of, let's just. Let's just have the debate over what's true and have that in the public square. That's what I was so upset about with what ESPN was telling me was, you can't even have the debate. Like, you don't get a say on this. And I thought, this is kind of in my lane. Like, this is girls in sports. You know, I'm no swimming expert, but I could talk about girls in sports. That feels. That feels like that's something that's connected to what I've done for 20 years. And when I was told, basically, you can't talk about that, shoot, then what can I talk about if I can't talk about something that's that connected to the world that we're living in? And I'm seeing these girls and talking to them privately and hearing their stories, that's when I knew, like, this is the beginning of the end because we were so misaligned. And where I take, man, I feel shame is I should have just right then. I should have right then been like, then I'm done. Then I'm done. But, Sage, the money, the attention, the life I had created for myself that I did not even realize at the time, my identity was so tied up in public opinion, and we had a job that depended on public opinion. When you have a job that depends on public opinion, it was really hard to figure out who I was because I was constantly trying to manage expectations of, like, how will people perceive this? You know, I started on game day when I was 26. And you're, like, thrown up there. I'm not thrown. Obviously, willingly up there in front of thousands of frat boys behind you and millions of people on tv. Try developing a sense of self outside of that. At 26, some can do it. I struggled. Mine was totally without me even realizing. This was all subconscious. It was so tied to the applause and the, oh, she's this and she's that. So when something came to a head and I knew, like, this is wrong, but it threatened my actual identity. I mean, I say that with shame, but, like, the. The feeling of, oh, I have an important job, and people compliment me, and I chickened out, and I shut up. And I went through another season, and countdown was great. We had. Even, according to our bosses who gave us reviews, like, ratings were up. We were up in the demo. Like, we were getting young people and women to watch. Left the super bowl in Vegas, like, all right, that was a great year. That was a great year. And I. I don't know. I guess the only way to put it is, like, sold out. Like, I. I just. It was great money, and it was the career I had built for myself over 20 years. And I was willing to kind of push it a little bit, but when I. When it really came down to it, I was like, all right, let's just keep it moving along here. And I do regret that. I look back, and the money I made in that extra year, you know, can't bring me peace now about those decisions. Money can always be made again. Or maybe it can't. Maybe I never make money like that again, and so be it. Like, I serve the same God that I was struggling to serve in that world. I would say I'm serving him better now than I ever was. Cause I see the truth of who I was becoming, and I'm. I. Man, I have so much regret. But. So that's why I'm grateful. That's why I'm so grateful that this happened, because I'm so glad it happened now and not when I was 65. And I'm like, man, I waste my life, you know? Like, I didn't do the good I knew to do. Like, I just kind of kept pushing it down. And the person I was becoming, it was just chipping away on a million different issues, not just about this, but that's why I'm so grateful. Like, I needed to get kicked off that hamster wheel and. And forced into a quieter, slower life. I get my husband. Laughs Because I'm always like, you realize you need to make up some compliments here. I'm not hearing anything nice anymore. Like, can you say something to me today that is so good? It is so good for me, Sage, to have all that stripped away to find out who I really am and what I really care about and to try and rebuild that sense of self on. On a firm foundation. I was living on sand. And when it went away, like, literally, it's just all gone. It's like the water coming up over your sandcastle. It's gone like that. And I'm so glad that it's gone.

[Samantha Ponder]

I have 65 questions on that topic alone.

[Sage Steele]

Sorry. Can you tell I haven't been talking a lot? I'm going to get it all out.

[Samantha Ponder]

Right now, and I am here. Are the batteries charged? David.

[Sage Steele]

She'S like. And question two. No, no, no, no.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, this is the most important part, what you just said. And especially because I have the honor and privilege of knowing your family and knowing your husband and knowing your babies and knowing your parents a little bit too, and seeing the evolution of you over the last year since you got fired, just to get to the point where you are so sure of what you're saying now about the shame. And, oh, my gosh, we have a lot of that in common. So I think that's what I hope to be. The biggest takeaway for people from this conversation is what you have done over the last year and who you are and the wins and all that you've learned about yourself as a woman, as a mother, as a wife, as a friend. Like, all these things. So hold that thought, please. What does matter is how it happened, because to me, the way it went down actually helped get you to where you are today because it was so shocking. So out of the blue, the shortest, most awkward phone call, right?

[Sage Steele]

Like, awkward, awkward to who? Nothing.

[Samantha Ponder]

Okay, good point. That was on August. It was August 15th.

[Sage Steele]

Fifteenth. Yeah. Yeah. I got on the phone and I kind of knew. You know when you get that text that's like, you're talking to the boss you never talk to, who maybe knows our name. Yeah, maybe at that point, I'm like, oh, I sent a text actually to my husband that just said, I'm getting fired today.

[Samantha Ponder]

And he probably thought you were like, don't tweet it. Don't do it.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, for sure. But so when I picked up the phone, to be fair to them, I did kind of have. I had like 45 minutes. I walked home from the store I was at, which was like a. Maybe a 40 minute walk. Just because I was like, I need to get my mind right for this. What am I gonna say? And so I pick up the phone and I. This is. This is the. The bad at me, Sage. I. Like, I put a little extra on it. I was like, hey, guys. How's it going? Like, how's your day going? They're like, oh, good, we're doing all right. How you doing? See, I'm like, I'm doing amazing. I'm wrong for that. I'm sorry, but.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, sorry, not sorry.

[Sage Steele]

But then, you know, they get into the. My dad's an attorney, so I'm used to the, like, legalese of it all. And clearly they had gotten out the script and started reading to me, you know, like, this has nothing to do with performance. We will no longer be using your services. And I just. I didn't plan to say this. It just came out. I was like, okay. Melon silence, long silence. I was like, I'm gonna hang there for a little bit. Like, all right, well, if you need information, reach out to this attorney. I was like, okay, have a nice day. Bye, guys. It was like that. Then it was over. And I think I thought, because I'm a middle of the road emotional person, like, something sad, I'll cry. I didn't shed a tear. The only time I cried, and the whole time after, because it was like, wow, 20 years of a career is gone. The only time I cried is when I called my mom. And I cried because I told her, man, I was so disobedient. The person I was becoming, the materialism, the everything's about me. And you wouldn't have necessarily noticed it from the outside, but I knew on the inside. People tell you all these nice things, and, you know, people are always, like, patting you on the back and you hear a lot of bad stuff, too. But, like, you know, it was addicting. It was like, people are just constantly like, oh, you're inspiring me. I'm like, if you only knew. Like, you know, my marriage was a mess. My sense of self was so tied to, like, what people would say about me and, you know, presenting myself in a certain way. Like, yeah, I was losing my soul. And so, yeah, that phone call could be super short. And me like, okay. And that's why I cried to my mom, because I knew, like, man, here we go again. Like, God's been so faithful to me when I have been so unfaithful. Like, I knew what he was telling me, and I was running. Like, I was like, Jonah, like, running the opposite direction of Nineveh. Like, I'm not trying to be there. I don't want to be a nobody. You know? Like, I don't want to. I don't want to just be regular. Even though, like, I come from a long line of awesome, regular people, you know? But I don't know. I guess I just thought, I guess I just thought I could do it my own way. And newsflash, since the beginning of time doesn't go well when we try and do it on our own, you know, and we know we're doing the wrong thing.

[Samantha Ponder]

So anyway, you use the word discipline and that you felt you were being disciplined. Yeah, by God in this moment. Yeah, the firing.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, for sure. I, I, I mean, I think about it with my kids. Like, the Bible talks about, like, God disciplines those he loves. And that's the same with me and my kids. Like, man, it's hard. It takes, like, you got to be dialed in to real discipline, not, like, anger, you know, with your kids, but, like, real, meaningful. Discipline is a sign of love. And so I took this as like, but like, oh, he still cares, you know? Like, he still cares. I know I've, I've turned my back. I've run the other way so many times. Like, he still cares enough to discipline me here. Took it all away like that. It's gone. And I'm so grateful for that because it makes you feel closer. Like, I went through a bunch of health issues after this. I think my body, you know this when your body's like, running, running, running for 20 years and then it slows down. I didn't even realize how stressed I'd been for 20 years. And my body, like, went into shock. So I had a bunch of different health issues, and it was pretty scary. And there was one day I was waiting on some test results, and it had gone bad so far. And I'm telling you, I am not one of those people that's like, God said this, and I heard this. I'm usually like, that sounds like my dad or, you know, put it on something else. And I heard clearly in my spirit, I heard, I am with you. You are not alone. And I had felt so alone, because what happens is when you climb the ladder, you get to this, like, mountaintop. It's all relative. I know this world, you know, sports thing, it's not a big deal. But in that world, you get to this, like, mountaintop success, man, is isolating. Because a lot of people, when they reach out, they want something, you know, or want, like, you to do something for them or whatever. And, and then a lot of people do you wrong. You get, like, used and all sorts of stuff that does make you jaded. And I had been really isolated, so I was already isolated. Then this happens. It all goes away, man, I Felt so alone. And then my body's shutting down and like having health problems. And to hear so clear, like, nobody can tell me that wasn't God. I. And 100% certain. And I didn't have my results yet. And it brought such a peace over me that was like, even if the news is bad, even if I know I'm not alone, which is really what I. That was my fear. I was afraid of being alone. So I don't know. I'm giving like way too long winded answers, but I am, I'm so grateful for that discipline. I am. It makes me feel loved. I hope I don't have to keep going through it. Like, I would like for once in my life to not have to learn the hard way. Man, I was that kid, like, just had to learn the hard way. Thought I could do it myself. And like Ms. Independent grew up in the like, you go girl generation. And God was like, no, you're not going anywhere. You're gonna sit, you're gonna homeschool three kids. Never thought in a million years I'd be doing that. And you're gonna do a lot of listening. You're gonna shut up. Which is why I'm talking so much right now, because I've got all this. I've been shutting up a lot over the last year, but it's been great.

[Samantha Ponder]

And what did your.

[Sage Steele]

In that moment, you know, my mom, I told you this walking in here. My mom in my career, like, she was always really proud of me, but I think she was always like, most concerned about like, real me. You know, I had, I, you know, I'm so lucky. I had parents who live with purpose my whole life. Like, not to make money or to like, have a cool job or buy us stuff. Like, they lived on purpose since I was born. And so their perspective has always been like, okay, that's cool if God, like brought you that thing. But what's really going on? Like, what's, what's really going on in here? And I think they knew. I mean, they know I'm hard headed. And I was gonna, I mean, I was the girl who like, met a guy and married him three months later. And I was like traveling all over the world. I didn't even know I was out of the country when I was in college and stuff. So they knew I was crazy already. But. But I think like, my mom definitely cried with me, but I think it was more of a, like, like, what's going on in, in here? I don't care about your job. Like, My parents, they never. I didn't grow up in a family that valued any of that world. And if. If anything kind of devalued it to the point where I was like, clap for me. Like, please tell me I'm doing good. But, yeah, it's just been all. All love. Like, I. I didn't feel a single twinge of, like, disappointment or any of that. My. My mom has been a huge supporter of helping me homeschool my kids, and she was the one traveling with me with Scout, my oldest, when she traveled with me on college game day. She was on over 100 flights in the first year. My mom was with me. It was the only way I could do it. So she's been there through this whole journey, and I think she knew. She knew I was late.

[Samantha Ponder]

They usually do. And while they're so proud of us, I think just like we're proud of our kids now, you know, for tying their shoes, finishing their dinner. That doesn't end when their daughter is hosting one of the biggest shows in the history of television and leading the way as a woman in a man's world and doing it right. Disciplined in so many ways where you weren't when you were that wild child, apparently.

[Sage Steele]

Sure.

[Samantha Ponder]

And. But that's the beauty of them, of our mothers, that they see it. They're so proud, and they see the pain, and they see when we're off, they're probably the only ones that we can truly receive that from, to receive the discipline and the. Are you gonna stop now, Sage?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Are you gonna, like, stop and listen? You're gonna continue to go down this path because at some point, you're only blaming. Like, you only have yourself to blame.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, I just put myself in that room with you at that moment, and first of all, want to, like, hug you again, because, listen, your humility with this is beautiful, and we can have that and also mourn the loss of what was a beautiful career. And there's still a lot more to come with Samantha Ponder. That's my gut.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, both can exist. We can be learning and growing and also be sad.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And, like, gosh, was all that for nothing. And we know that that's not the case, but because of the way things sometimes are handled, it's like, gosh, I thought we were friends. I thought we were teammates. I thought we, like. I think that's the part maybe that I've struggled with a lot, and I've shared that with you, and, you know, I was pissed at the way they did that with you. Like, where's the human element in this? And I think that's what I also want people to take. Like, we can be hard on each other. And if you're a leader and a boss and fire people, yeah, sure, the way you do things does matter. We can't control that, but it does. And how do we get over that? And maybe you are. I don't know if you need this.

[Sage Steele]

I need this always.

[Samantha Ponder]

Where are you in that process? Are you just, like, fine, whatever?

[Sage Steele]

Like, I'm probably pretty cynical about corporate culture, so I don't think it's. It shocked me. I was. It felt a little weird that, like, they never said anything publicly. They leaked it because I never said anything. I disappeared. Like, I. Hadn't you done anything.

[Samantha Ponder]

Totally disappeared off the face of the earth.

[Sage Steele]

I needed to disappear. I need. Because that first week, my email was, like, scary. Like, come on this. Because of course it was like. And people want you to be mad. And I get it. Like, I. I understand that there were some really kind people, too, who were mad for me. And let me just say first and foremost, like, the only reason I'm here talking with you about this is because now I am gonna cry. You have been such a loyal friend to me. Gosh, when it felt like nobody. And I don't blame him. I get the fear. Oh, my gosh, I get the fear. I get. I get that feeling of, like, I had some people who I will never name, very prominent people say to me, like, you know, we all agree with you, but, like, I can't lose my job. And, man, I get that.

[Samantha Ponder]

I do, too.

[Sage Steele]

I get that. So I have no, like, bitterness. But you. I mean, my mom sent me.

[Samantha Ponder]

The.

[Sage Steele]

Video you posted after I got fired, which I don't know if people know this, but, like, it's not like you, like, said, hey, Sam, I'm gonna post this video. Or, like, do you want me to do this? Like, you. On your own, to no benefit to yourself. No benefit to yourself. Made a video, like, just loving on me publicly in a way that, like, literally, like, brought me to my knees. I. And you had done it before. I had been in some. Some messes publicly before, and I had never asked you, but, Sage, you've always gone first.

[Samantha Ponder]

This show is not about me.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, hold on. This is not because this is the only reason I'm here. I'm not just trying to, like, be out there talking and, like, going around sharing all my met. Like, who cares? The reason I'm here is because I want People to know, like, this is the kind of friend you need. Because even when, like, we had a lot going on, you had a lot going on in your own life that you easily could have just been, like, where's her video for me? You know, like, that's how a lot of people operate. And, man, you are such a loyal friend. And the courage. I mean, I really. I was a year behind you. A year behind you in even an ounce of courage. Like, you went first. People do not know in this type of corporate world, the person who goes first, oh, my gosh, we have to lift up these people because it. Nobody knows about you. And I've got, like, a small taste of it, but nobody knows but you how hard and how lonely it is to go first. And that is who you are. I mean, you were raised that way, like, God bless your parents, but you had to choose to go first when, like, really no one was doing it. And that gave me, like, just enough. I always tell people, like, when you get that, like, jolt of courage, go then. Because it will not last.

[Samantha Ponder]

You have to go.

[Sage Steele]

And I always get that little jolt. And then I would, like, go back into my turtle shell. And you didn't. You didn't. And it's the reason I'm here. It's the reason I will, like, I will love you for the rest of my life. Because the people that stick their neck out for you when none of it benefits them, like, you were getting nothing out of that. If anything, like, negative. Those are your real friends, not the people. I got a lot. And. And I know you know this. I got a lot of private messages, a lot. And some really nice ones, like, from, like, very prominent people where I was like, oh, you know, it gives you that, like, oh, that feels good. What you did is different.

[Samantha Ponder]

I wish I'd put makeup on that day when I did that video, because it got around. No, I, like, first of all, I love you, Period. End of story. I don't care what happens in the future. You are so stuck with me. And I'm so grateful for the Scripps national spelling bee in 2011. Right. I'm so grateful. And that's why I think we both have such gratitude toward espn and, yes, for every moment. Good, bad, ugly. More good than bad, honestly.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

We both have that gratitude. And because of what came of it, yes, some success and, okay, some nice savings, maybe for the future, for our children. But like this. Because what I have found as I've gotten older is, man, that circle is small.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And it is Shrinking by the day, it seems like. I've also found that as painful as that can be, it's easier because I'm not very good with my time and my communication skills right now. Never was. But now it's like, totally exposed because I don't have the structure of sports center every day. And now I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have no idea what tomorrow is. And I should, because people are depending on me. Yeah. But, like, I just. All we have are our people. And yes, it's lonely. And I just. Once you feel. Experience that feeling of loneliness, like, I want to make sure the people that I love don't feel it as much. We can't prevent it from happening to each other, but we can be there when it does go dark and it gets really freaking dark.

[Sage Steele]

But that was. That's a choice because you could have just been angry, you know, you could have just been angry that people didn't do that for you. And instead there's some anger there. I'm excited. But that's not what won't.

[Samantha Ponder]

Not at you. I don't like.

[Sage Steele]

Obviously you decided we can hold multiple feelings at the same time. You decided, like, no, I'm. I'm not going to pass that on. I'm not going to pass on what was done to me, which, like, talk about things that could change the world if other people did, if we didn't pass on our own, you know, wrongs to other people. Like, you didn't do that.

[Samantha Ponder]

Well, you are worth it. And you strengthened me in so many ways that you don't realize either. And I think being a mother in this industry and a young mother and you're having babies on national TV. Mine were born. Mine were. When I got to ESPN, they were 11 months, 2 and 4 when I started there. And either way, it's just a big. And then you're in survival Mode. Yes. In 2007, when it. Different vibe. Very different vibe. Better in some ways, but, like, not in others that we don't need to go into now, but, like, you're in survival mode. And I remember starting off there and there were a couple women in particular who'd been there for a long time on air. And I was like, worshiped them.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And was so excited to meet them. And they were. Both of these two women in particular were moms. And I was like, oh, gosh, they're a little ahead of me. Their kids are a little older. Maybe they can offer me something because I'm coming in here, dream job. My whole Life was to get DSP in the night. Did it, and I have my babies, and I'm so grateful for all of it. And, oh, my gosh, how do I do it all? And I was so excited to talk to them and get some advice and to learn from them. That's what we do for women, I thought. Right.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And it was like.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, gosh.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I remembered, you can ask my mom when you're at the wedding. Ask my mom. Like, I remember saying to both my parents, the next woman that comes to espn, I'm going to make sure. Like, it makes me. I'm going to make sure she does not feel the way I do. Because. Because this sucks.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I'm like, this isn't how it's supposed to be. Women preach about uplifting others and screw the guys in the glass ceiling. But how about we look in the mirror first? If we're not helping each other, how can we point the finger at the men? And I promised then that I would not let others feel that way. I wasn't always successful with it. I didn't always have people wanting to receive that. Right. Because it's competitive and the women are, like, clawing at each other's backs at that place. Right. And so, I don't know. I thank you for saying that, Sam, but, like, that is our job. And if I want my daughters to do that for their friends, too, then don't. I have to lead that way. We all do. You do that with your daughters and your son, of course, but with your girls, too. Like, that's all that we have because we say it. Words versus actions.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Well, it flows from security, you know, you. And I think because I've experienced some of the same things you're talking about when you look at those people. That's why now I can look back with such compassion. Because, like, that came from such a place of insecurity. It was one of my fears about staying in TV for a long time. One I would. I didn't want to age on tv. So far it looks terrible. Not the people looking terrible, but, like, the process of aging on television.

[Samantha Ponder]

Remember when we were on the View and the filter that they had for Barbara Walters and everybody? I'm like, I would give my right arm for that filter. Where is it?

[Sage Steele]

Talking about one time on the View is a whole nother podcast. Part two. Part two. My goodness. That is called unprocessed trauma. But, no, I think that the ability to do what you're talking about, to not pass that. That on, to Younger women coming up only comes from a sense of security where, like, this young, hot, cool girl coming up isn't a threat.

[Samantha Ponder]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

You know, right. Where it's like, no, no. This is the circle of life, if you will. This is how it works. You know, like, a company like that is always going to, for one, be going for the younger, hotter, cheaper. Like, this is a business. Can we just be honest about how these things work? And I took advantage of the opportunities I was given. You know, at 25 and 26, I wasn't like, no, Someone more experienced and seasoned should have this position. Like, of course. I was like, sweet.

[Samantha Ponder]

This is amazing.

[Sage Steele]

So. So I think there's some of that understanding that goes to it, but also, you can only be compassionate and kind from that position if you're secure in who you are. And look, this industry, it's. It's worldwide. This is universal. But this industry is a cesspool of insecure people trying to. I can say this because I was one of them. I'm not. I'm not putting that on other people trying to get, like, tell me I'm enough. Somebody tell me I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. I'm pretty enough. Like, tell me all the things so that I can feel puffed up enough to finally be okay. And let me know when you find one of those people who is finally okay from that. Like, it doesn't work. You just stay on that hamster wheel forever. So what you were able to recognize was that, like, that feeling that somebody passed down to me, like, really? That was just about them. It was, you know, that wasn't about. You came in, like, excited, beautiful, happy, talented, through the roof. Like, how could you not see that and be, like, awesome, Good for her. Well, if it's a threat to what gives you identity, then that's terrifying. So you were terrifying to a lot of those women, and I could see why they felt that way.

[Samantha Ponder]

Well, we. I mean, and you experienced it to degrees that you probably will never talk about publicly from, like, again. We need, like, eight podcasts to get through. Each one is a show. And at some point, yes, my mother. And it happened in 2007, when I started there and went on my first couple of sports centers. And then these women in particular. And I remember one of them did something on the air that I had people text me later, like, what was that? And I was like, I don't know. I'm so sad. Like, I always looked up to her, like, I don't understand. And I got in the car to drive home. And I called my mom because that's what we did, that's what we do. And my mom said that. She goes, sage, okay, not nice. Whatever facts. She saw it, she watched it, and then she said, you know, this has nothing to do with you. Right. And I was like, what are you talking about? She directed it at me. The producers even got me. I were like, are you okay? And of course I was, listen, if that happened a couple years later, we would have had a live TV fight. I was weak and scared then and whatever. Probably better. But, like, my mom was right. It isn't about us. It's about their own insecurities. And so that is why we can have grace and some forgiveness, I think, in those moments. And. Okay, all right. I can't control. I can continue to be nice.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

I can come in and do a kick butt job every Sunday, Every time I have that microphone in my hand. College game day. That's all we can really control. And I think when we come to a piece, not just in tv, in any industry, you're going to have it. So do you choose to receive that? Because I was receiving it and I took it in. And then my confidence, along with being really. I'm not going to say terrible, but I'm going to say not good and not confident. Those first several years at espn.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, so then it all goes like this.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Because we are allowing our hearts and our souls to receive that negativity. Right.

[Sage Steele]

And also not seeing. I mean, what's really helped me and scared me is trying to put myself in that position. Like in this industry. I was always thinking, like, what's the. What's the exit? You know, like, let's say everything goes great. Like, what. How am I seeing this going towards the end? And I started to look around and seeing the women who were, you know, 20 years down the road for me, and it wasn't ending well. Like, it wasn't it? There was so much. I mean, you could see it in the makeup room. I know. You know this a lot of, like, looking over there, like, what's going on with. Just like. And for women, there's a whole different element when it comes to body image and all that on television. That is a mess. Yes. Especially in this day and age, because you can try and hang on for dear life in a lot of different ways. And trying to look forward and thinking like, okay, why are they acting that way? What is their fear? A lot of women and, you know, this sacrificed a family.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Some who Had a family and some who put that off because of the job and the things that come with that as you get older, you know, the regrets and the fears and that. So trying to have compassion for women, some of whom were told a lie, like, first of all, the whole, like, you can have it all. Like, no, like, somebody's got to raise the kids, you know, like somebody's. You're either paying for it or doing it yourself. And there are real choices and sacrifices to be made. I'm a believer that you can have it all over the course of a life. You can't have it all at the same time. Like, it's. I tried to do that first couple years on game day and I was like, what? I don't even know my name right now. Like, where am I? And the women who were lied to about, like, oh, you know, you can wait, you can wait. You can have a family later. Like, have this amazing career, like, oh, you know, girl boss. And we were the, like, you go girl generation. You can do it all. And then you have friends in the industry that get to that point where it's like, shoot. Like, did I, did I sacrifice a family that I would know and love my entire Life for a 10 year career? Did I? You know, the pain and the fear that comes with that is so deep. So, yeah, there's a lot of. I totally get the anger part because it is hard, especially when you're young coming in. And I hope. I look back, I'm like, man, did I do enough to encourage some of these young girls. My head was spinning most of the time. So I don't think I was like, mean to anybody. But I, I think I could have done a better job at, like, spending time. I just felt like I didn't have time to give. It was like any moment away I got to spend with my husband or my kids because, oh my gosh, like, yeah, I am so frazzled all the time we were talking about this this week. Like, my brain is so scattered from just being on all the time and trying to look a certain way and make sure you say the right things and who don't say that. And live TV for three hours. It's just, I don't know, it gives me a lot more compassion about even some of the. There are some mean people when you're coming up. Because I do think it comes from a place of fear and deep insecurity.

[Samantha Ponder]

What do you miss?

[Sage Steele]

I miss my friends. Like, but I say that, like, we were just, you know, on a pontoon with Rex all week. So, you know, the people that you. You know what I miss? I miss the friends that you just see casually. They may not be like your closest friends, like people like Rex and you that have become like family to me. Of course you're gonna make time to see them. You're gonna vacation, you're gonna do whatever. But just like, you know, some of my guys that were around all the time that were behind the scenes that you get so used to seeing, that was the hard thing about the timing of everything. I didn't get to say goodbye to anybody.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Because we left super bowl like, high fiving, like, everyone was like, oh, that was a great year.

[Samantha Ponder]

And you had a full year left on your contract that, that last season left.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, I had a year left. Yeah. And so it was. I mean, maybe they lied to me. I don't think they did. But like, the guys that I worked with behind the scenes, they were all shocked too. And so we were actually, we were supposed to have a meeting with our producers in the city the next day, and they got a call from a boss that said, like, you can't go down to the city for the meeting. So it got canceled the day before. And I'm like, that's weird. I mean, now obviously it all makes sense, but. So I didn't get to say goodbye to anybody. And you know, this, like any job, I don't care if you're cleaning up trash or you're talking on TV or you're, you know, working for the president. If you're not working around good people, it's either miserable or if you're working around great people, a bad job can be awesome. Like, I had some bad jobs in my life, but when I was with friends or like, people I loved, you know, those are great memories. So I lucked out. The college game day crew that I was with, like, those guys were like family. I mean, I have so much gratitude for how they treated me and the way they were, like, holding Scout in commercial breaks as I'm trying to make all this work. And never once, I mean, maybe behind the scenes, I don't know, never once complained or were like, hey, we hired a like 24 year old single girl and suddenly she's married with a kid on her hip. Like, this is not kind of what we were going for. Like, they just, they loved on me and my family. And then the Countdown crew, I mean, that was what was special about that show, in my opinion is like, we would just hang around each other when things were over. Yeah, like, the best moments of that show were in the commercial breaks. You know, like, we just. We all. I mean, I will never forget going into a shoe store, a very fancy shoe store, with Rex Ryan, Randy Moss. I think Adam Schefter might have been there with us. Teddy Bruschi, like, these, like, five guys and me going in to pick out some shoes for someone's life. There were just crazy things. We were just hanging out together all the time.

[Samantha Ponder]

It was.

[Sage Steele]

It was a really special group. So I'm. You know, I miss that. And then I miss being at games, which was the hardest thing about Countdown for me because I grew up in the game day world where you're at games, you're, like, feeling the energy of fans. You're out there at the tailgate. That is what I love. Like, that was. Was really special. It was so special. The first couple years I was off of College Game Day, even though it was the right decision, I needed to settle down and be in one place. I could not travel five days a week with multiple kids, but I couldn't watch the show.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah, it hurt.

[Sage Steele]

I literally. This is how ridiculous, stupid I am. I like, unfollowed college game day on social media. I'm like, I can't see it. I can't see it. See it. Because it was just so. Man, I love that show and those guys, and it was such a great experience.

[Samantha Ponder]

They're still friends. I mean, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I got a master class in TV from those guys. First with Chris Fowler and then Reese Davis, like, watching the way they prepare. Being with Herbie and Pollock, who was like the brother I never wanted. Take it. Just one of my favorite people on earth. And, you know, Herbie and the support I got from his and him and the kindness of dez and like, man, it was. It was hard to. To leave those people, but it was the right thing. So. Yeah, I miss a lot of those. You know, this. There's so much good. That's why I'm not Matt. Like, this is. This has all been a part of the process, but like we talked about, it's like holding two things. You know, you can say this. This is what. If I could go back, I would tell myself, like, show love to people, show gratitude. Like, be grateful, be kind, all those things, and say what's true. That's where I could. I felt like you either. If I say what's true, then I'm mean. You know, nobody wants to be mean. And. No, no, you can say what's True. Sometimes telling the truth, I would say probably almost all the time. Telling the truth with kindness, like, that's the most loving thing you can do. But I always felt like, I gotta shut up. I gotta. I can't say anything. I can't. You know, I look back and I'm like, that wasn't kind. That wasn't. That was me being scared. But I don't know, I miss a lot. Do you?

[Samantha Ponder]

Gosh, I feel like you're so hard on yourself.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, there is a lot to be hard on. Like, I'm, I'm fine. I'm not. Like, I don't ruminate on the bad things. I don't like, sit in it, but I can acknowledge it. Like, I mess some stuff up. That's all right. I'm trying to get better.

[Samantha Ponder]

Well, I don't know that there's ever. Sometimes I feel like we're wanna be professional athletes for sure. And when they retire from the game, there's a whole transition process. And they have people within the NFL community. Each team has people that helps with the transition, whether it's financial or whatever. Because you go from those screaming stadiums of 80,000 people to nothing. And you, I mean, you're married to professional athlete. Right. And. And we see how difficult the transition can be. We are certainly down several levels. But when you have that public spotlight and then it's just gone. Yeah, that is an adjustment. Yeah, I actually. And so you've been very open about that and vulnerable, nervous about that. Like, I do think there's something that I miss about it, but not nearly as much as I thought. How are you with that part? Because by the way, we're told, we were told 10, 15 years ago, get on Twitter, go do these things, get your brand out there because it helps espn. Then it was like, oh, can you stop?

[Sage Steele]

But now you're not.

[Samantha Ponder]

Don't say that. Don't say that. But you can say this, right? It's all these confusing messages. But on the mean time, for the last 10, 15 years, that is part of it. And there's no way that doesn't impact, you know, our everyday and how we feel about ourselves.

[Sage Steele]

And you can't know, in my opinion, you can't know to the extent that it does impact you until it's taken away.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Because if I was talking, if I was on the same kind of podcast last summer, I think I, I would. It's not. A lot of this stuff was subconscious. Like, I didn't realize how much I relied. But when since, I mean, I was in this industry since I was 18, when, especially since my early 20s, people are just constantly like, oh, good job. Because we value so much anybody who's on a screen, you know, like, we value that. I still don't fully understand why, but we do as a society. Like, if someone's on tv. I mean, I remember as a kid, like, if I saw the local weather guy downtown at a DBags game, I was like, wow. You know, like, it was so amazing to see someone from TV in real life. And so I get it. But we kind of create the monsters that we hate, you know, like, we. We prop these people up on TV all the time, and we're constantly, like, you know, acting like there would be people on college game day. And I don't say this with any sort of. Like this. I hope this doesn't sound demeaning at all. This is just how it was. Who would come up and ask for a picture? Grown men, like, in their 50s. They will be shaking like crazy. I mean, I'm talking about my first year. They didn't know who I was. Like, I was just on the show. So it was like, the excitement level about anybody who's in that position is so extreme that you can't help but be impacted by that. Because I'm over here. Like, does he know? Like, I haven't done anything with my life. Like, I just got thrown into this. Like, I don't know anybody cool. I'm like, I'm shaking myself. I can't believe I'm here. There was so much of that, and then you put that over 14, 15 years, and you don't even realize how much you start to feel like you are a little different. You are a little special. You, too, you know, like that. But we kind of create that. And I. I should have done a better job at the time at, like, fighting that in myself and keeping myself more accountable. I think that's where the isolation comes in, because you start to only be surrounded by other people like that. Like, I grew up real regular, you know, Like, I should have spent more time around the people I was around earlier in my life, because you start to get to the point where the people you're vacationing with and the. And combine that with Christian's world, too, where he's coming from, pro sports. Like, we. All of a sudden, you're just around people who are living that same lifestyle and in that world. And it. It does change you. It. It. I'll speak for myself. It did change me, but not in ways that I. I necessarily recognized at the time. So then when it was all taken away and, like, we live in New York City, so even more on top of that, like, they don't care about Tom Cruise walking down the street there. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, so nobody cares about me, that's for sure. In some ways, it was like, holy crap. I didn't realize how much I relied on that. And simultaneously, oh, thank God. Like, I felt like I explained it to someone the other day. I felt like I could see. Sit down on the inside. I had just been standing up, like, at attention for so long. Like, don't say the wrong thing. You better look this way and don't. And it felt like on the inside, I was like, oh, we can sit now. You know, now my. My audience was the harshest critics I've ever had in my life. These three little kids who are like, you are the worst teacher. But it was exactly what I needed. And I'm so glad I just shut up. Like, there's always going to be a time to talk about things, but, like, for that first nine months, I just shut up and I. I took on the humility, and it was good. It wasn't scary. It wasn't. I had a friend who's considering getting out of this industry recently call me and they said, you know, like, what's it like when it all goes away? Like, is it. Does it all go away? Does it? I was like, oh, yeah. Right away, it's. It's gone. Like, that world. And then I told him, like, but I'm okay.

[Samantha Ponder]

Oh, my gosh, yes. More than okay.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Like, it's actually empowering because I'm like, oh, you didn't actually give me real value. You gave me temporary value. And, like, thanks for that. Like, appreciate the opportunity. And I gained a lot from that. But you didn't give me anything that lasts. Like, I went to. Man, I. Part of me doesn't even know if I should share this because I. I don't know who it. But I think it's important. I went to Chris Mortensen's funeral. Mort was a good friend of me and a good man. As you know, there are some people in this industry, I mean, that are, like, good to the core. He was one of them. The best. The best gave me so much crap, and I loved him for that. That's usually how I can tell. Like, if someone actually. If they're willing to be like, I'll never forget when he was like, your hair looks terrible. But we just Connected. He loved the Lord, loved his family. And I went out to Arkansas. You were there, obviously, for his funeral. And I don't know if you got the same impression, but I was just struck by the number of executives who weren't there.

[Samantha Ponder]

I know.

[Sage Steele]

And there were the people who were there. I was like, yes, yes, yes. I went down the line and there were some people that I was like, yeah, those are the people who would, who would show up. But there were some, I don't know everyone's story or excuse, but from my perspective, like, that man gave so much to that company. And it was a good reminder to me like, this, when you work for a company like that, there is a sense of like, wow, this is cool and this is big, and this is. But, like, when things get really tough, you find out if the investment that you've made has a good return. And sometimes I think, I know, I'll speak for myself. Like, I was investing in something with no return. Like, yeah, you get an immediate check and that's great. Like, I, you know, I'm not downplaying that. But in terms of, like, long term, that's like, those people aren't going to be there, you know, and it's. And it's not. This is not about more, more, more out of any of us, like, would have the most, you know, so I'm thinking, man, me compared to him, like, Sage will be there, but you'll be at mine. You know, that was a big wake up call for me.

[Samantha Ponder]

I am so glad you brought that up again because we sat together and went out for coffee before or smoothie, trying to get breakfast in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas. I was like, how are we gonna do this, Mort? You didn't leave us any advice here. Where did we go? And I, yes, I was sad that a couple of people weren't there because. And Mort would have been like, it's fine.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, he wouldn't have cared at all.

[Samantha Ponder]

For his wife.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. That's what. Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And for his family. And you're so right. It's a brutal reminder. We go back to who's in your circle. Who do you choose to give your energy to when there's not much energy to give? And he. How many conversations did we have with him? And you have more than me because you're with him all the time. But, like, work is what kind of saved his life and prolonged his life when he was battling this cancer. And to be around people and to be able to talk about football and to watch him struggling on that television screen every Sunday. I mean, he inspired me in so many ways and to do it by leading with his faith.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

He was so open. He was so open about. And those, Those are the people that, like, gosh, how lucky are we that we got to do this for so long? Because of the people like Chris Mortensen and the guys on your set for those last few years and game day. Like, there are so many blessings, and it is your year. And I'm almost two years in, by the way. Sam got fired the exactly one year and a day to the day after I settled my lawsuit.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. It was literally.

[Samantha Ponder]

She called me a leader. Here you go.

[Sage Steele]

Led me into the pit of despair.

[Samantha Ponder]

You definitely should have seen that coming. Oh, my gosh. But, like, it's, it's, it is a process. And I don't know. I, I, I've been so surprised at how much I don't miss.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, I thought for sure.

[Sage Steele]

You mean the extreme anxiety and stress?

[Samantha Ponder]

You don't miss that every single day. Like, I don't. That's what we talked about the other day out on the lake, too. Like, I, I don't think I realized how my brain. How tired my brain was.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Samantha Ponder]

And when you're doing live TV and I was doing four or five days a week.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Two hours. And, like, three kids and a home and some personal issues. Going through a divorce and, like, all these things. And I was like, oh, my God. I still. And it's been almost two years. I still don't feel healthy.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Mentally healthy. And it scares me because I'm like, I'm a lot older than you, Sam. I'm, like, way older. And you lie different. I do. Do you see, these are still five years old. Like, I'm. Once you have a five in front of your age, you're like, this is. I mean, I'm definitely past the halfway point. Okay. I'm not living to 104. Like, it's not happening. And so I'm like, I have shame.

[Sage Steele]

For.

[Samantha Ponder]

Allowing it for 30 years total to, like, I allowed that to take over. In some ways, I think I stayed true to myself as a human being and, like, my heart and trying to be a good friend, even though I've not always been a good friend to people. You do your best. And a good daughter and a good neighbor and a good room mom for all the kids, because you can't just.

[Sage Steele]

You're crazy.

[Samantha Ponder]

You can't just be a mom for one. You have to do all three or else of course you don't love them equally, obviously. But like, why did I abuse my body to that point and my soul? Like, why do we do that? I do think part of it as women and this is what we do. And then we, we are nurturers and we're caretakers and I'm proud of that. Yeah, but the. To what end where you're killing yourself anyway, I, I'm mad at myself for the abuse that I put on my entire being for, for all those years. And now I'm like, okay, is it too late? Can I fix it? Can I fix it? Can I fix it?

[Sage Steele]

Usually I'm not like just going too hard, like running yourself ragged type and.

[Samantha Ponder]

Trying to do everything.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And to please everybody and. Yeah, but physically we can't do that. Like that kind of a job.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And be the hands on mom that we were doing. The point was we were doing it, but like, now look, now we're like.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, yeah, no, it doesn't end well. But I maybe this cop out. But I think a lot of that is because you look around and that's what everybody else is doing. I mean, I'll never forget when I was offered, and I say this with humility, like it was nice of them. Nice of them to offer, they said, but like, at one point they offered me an additional job that would have been five days a week and still doing my weekend job. And I was like, wait, what? Like we're talking about seven days a week of live television, multiple hours a day, every day. I'm not saying, like, I'm not working construction. I get it. Like, this is not actually this physically, like, oh, poor me. I'm not saying it like that. But where's the. I've got three kids. Like, who's raising these kids? You know, I. And every time the example was given was either to a woman who I knew was really struggling with family situation, all that, or to a man who his wife didn't work and was home taking care of the kids.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

It's a different situation.

[Samantha Ponder]

Very.

[Sage Steele]

And because everybody. It's a culture of. Yes. And that is like ingrained in you. If you are giving in, given an opportunity, you say, yes. I cannot tell you how many times I was told, like, this is such a great opportunity, or my favorite one. This is such great experience, exposure. I'm like, oh my gosh, you're right. Like, and so you're just in this environment of like, grind, grind, grind. And by the way, if you're grinding for like, you know, you Work in the military or. Yeah, you do something that's like, really bringing something important to the world. Okay. That's different. Especially for a season. Like, I can see why you would choose to live that way, but, like, this is grinding for applause.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I'm sorry, as someone who has received that, it is not worth that, because it's never enough. It's not like you get all the applause or you win an award. I mean, I literally got my Emmys taken away and put in a trash bag. That's another story. But, like, even when you do get the award, then it's like, when you get the next award. I mean, would they ask Saban every year after he won a national championship? Like, all right, what about next year? It's never enough. So you're killing yourself. Yeah, sometimes. Quite literally. I mean, I had a seizure on a plane to work one time, and I'm like, huh, that's strange. I wonder why. Like, I wonder what happened. I got all these tests done. They're like, we don't know what's going on. And I'm like, yeah, because you're a shell of a person. Your body's like, please help. Drink some water, please. Like, I was destroying myself. But it felt like everybody else was doing that, too. So when everyone that you're around is also living this unhealthy lifestyle, and then you mix in the alcohol and the travel and all this stuff, it's a mess. It is a mess. And there are so few examples, I mean, so few of someone where I'm like, huh, they have a healthy family life. They really take care of their body. They seem very, you know, just like, together in that industry. Are you kidding me? In the green room. The stories you hear in the green room of the messes. And I say this with all humility, it was my life, too. But the messes that are going on in real life, and then you get on camera and it's like, hey, come be like me. I'll go give speeches. Pay me to come speak and tell. Tell everybody else how to live. Meanwhile, you're like, your home life is a mess. Your body is a mess. You're trying to look a certain way and present a certain thing, and it's a disaster.

[Samantha Ponder]

Behind the scenes, I see a difference in you.

[Sage Steele]

Hopefully. Good.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, in a beautiful way. Like, calm, peace. Like, unfortunately, we didn't live in the same town much. When I was doing NBA in Los Angeles, I lived in Arizona. You were in Arizona most of the time back, yeah. But this weekend of Course, we're at the lake with Rex Ryan, which you must relax with him. But the way you walk, the way you talk, the way you carry yourself, the way you are with the kids. So chill. And Christian, too. Like, how do you feel inside and out today?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't know how stressed I was until I got out. But here's the thing. Nobody did this to me. I chose to stay on that. Tell me I'm pretty. Tell me I'm good, because I liked that feeling, you know? But it's those short hits of dopamine, and you don't realize how addicted you are to the dopamine until it's away. You almost have to, like, detox, which is what I did. Homeschooling will do that to you. I was like, an extreme detox. I'm just going to be with these three kids all day, every day, and. And, yeah, I do feel. Look, the thing I've learned is that if you're first to admit your own mess, and not everybody is owed every detail of your own mess, but if you're the first to say, like, I have no problem saying, like, man, I. I was a bit of a walking disaster. Like, I. I wanted people to think. And again, none of this was like, oh, this is my big plan. Like, have everybody think I have it put together, and I really don't. It just kind of happens. Like, life happened really quick. I mean, my first year on college game day, I met my husband the night before my first day.

[Samantha Ponder]

The story.

[Sage Steele]

And then got married three months later and then found out I was pregnant eight months after that. And then you're on national tv. I've never done anything like. And people are stopping you. And I was a mess. I had no. All of a sudden, I had money. I'd never had any money. Like, what do you do with that? I was. It was a lot. And so I do look back with a sense of some compassion for myself. Like, man, I didn't know what I was doing, but some of it I did. Like, when I would hear that voice of like, nope, this is a no. Step away. Just step away from all this on your own. I wasn't.

[Samantha Ponder]

But this isn't this part of it. This is life. This is the journey. This is growth. And we're not supposed to know all that. Like, I don't know any. My mother was 22 when she had me. She got married at 21. She had me at 22 and chatted 24. And it was like. I mean, I guess there was Less out in the world, less craziness. But certainly other things that were difficult then. But, like, she talks about that all the time. Okay. 22 to 32.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Huge. 32 to 42. Like. And let me tell you, 42 to 52, I am there. Like, it is. I'm a different human. And so, yeah, yeah, it is part of it. And then we try to tell our kids, hey, we give them advice and let's not do this. Trust me, they don't.

[Sage Steele]

They don't care.

[Samantha Ponder]

This better. And our parents said it, too, and we didn't listen because we needed to go do it ourselves and fall on our face and get back up and learn from it. And I'm not blowing you up, everybody. I mean, you are. There are 39 years old. You're not even 40 yet. Like, yes. No, do not. I swear, I'm so jealous. Like, what a blessing that this happened earlier. Yes. Because the lessons that you have taken, I think it takes most people 10, 15, 20 years longer.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I am so with you on that. I'm so grateful. It was one of the things. Sometimes I look back and I'm like, why did God allow me? Because I didn't have some, like, really incredible, unique talent. There's a million girls who look like me coming out of college and wanted to do sports broadcasting. Like, this is not unique. It's not like I had a specific ability that made me so irreplaceable. Like, everybody in this industry, it's like you come and go, but I look back now and think maybe God gave me that dream beyond the dream I had. I wanted to work for the Phoenix Suns. Like, I. I thought that would be so cool. But he gave me this, like, big dream just to show me. Like, first he sets one up and another down. Like, it's not a sign of whether he loves you or not, whether you have what society says is, like, an important job or not, you know, but that he gave me this opportunity to show me, like, this isn't it. You think you want this, and you think this is going to give you meaning and value, and then you're going to be special. You're going to be in, like. No. As my. My dad used to tell me when I was a kid, you're special just like everybody else.

[Samantha Ponder]

I love it.

[Sage Steele]

And so that I was able to see, like, oh, this is what it's like up here. And I'm looking around and you know, this. You're looking around thinking, then why is everybody so miserable? Like, why is everything such A mess up here if this is the big goal. So I'm always telling my kids about, like, celebrities, and, you know, my daughter wants to be an actress, and I. So we went through. She. We live in New York City. So it was like, can I go on these auditions and stuff? I'm like, all right, find me a child actor. This really worked out well for it's very few. I was like, you do a little research, see how this goes and bring me. But we keep setting these kids up for these dreams, not considering the end in mind. Like, what is the goal here? Is it just to make a bunch of money and everybody clap for you? And why. Why do we want that? You know, like, and all that comes with that and then that. It's never. It's not. Like, if you get to that place and it's like, you've made it, then that's it. No, you got to hang on forever.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And we know the people that have tried to hang on forever, and it is ugly. Like, it. That does not end well. So I'm so. Yes, to your point. I'm so grateful that I got kicked off. And if it means I never make that kind of money again and, you know, people think I'm stupid or whatever people think, good. I can handle that.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Like, God is with me on the mountaintop and in the valley. And I will say, I feel him more in the valley. Like, I. Because when you're up there, it's like, oh, I must have done quite well. Like, you know, everybody's telling me all these nice things. And in the valley, you see reality. Like, the truth is, I am nothing unless he says I'm something. Like, I am a created being. And without my acknowledgment of my dependence on Him, I'm living a lie. Like, I was living a lie. And I'm not saying I was. Like, you know, I pretended like God didn't exist, but I was so distracted. Oh, my gosh, was I distracted. I. Every day of my life, it was just, like, scrolling and scrolling and like, what's this person saying? And what are the. Even when I was with my kids, I was with my kids a lot. Like, you know, I tried to be purposeful in saying no to things so I could be home more. But even when I was with them, my mind was talking about that, like, frazzled, frayed edges of my brain. That's how it felt. It just felt like my brain was always thinking of all these other things. I wasn't fully present. I had three babies like, that I have so much regret. I mean, I went. I have all summer babies. I went right back to work every time within weeks. And I look back like, oh, my gosh, what was I thinking? And all these young women coming up, like, I just don't have those regrets. Don't have those regrets. I've yet to meet a person, and maybe there are some that at the end of their life are like, man, I wish I would have really grinded more. Wish I would have been more famous and, you know. No, it's the people. It's the. I wish I would have spent more time with my kids. I wish I would have really connected with my spouse. I would. And I. I messed that up. But to your point, how great that as I'm about to turn 40, I go in unemployed homeschool mom. But I see. Like, I can see. I'm still a mess in so many ways, but my vision isn't blurry anymore. Like, I felt like I had this film over my eyes that was, like, clouding my vision. And that in some ways has been lifted where I can see, like, oh, this is what matters.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So I don't know where that. That goes from here, but at least I'm. I'm aware that's got it. Is that the first step? I think yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

Acknowledging we have a problem is the first step with addiction, right?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

I am picturing you, Sam, waiting for those test results and hearing God's voice. What a beautiful moment when it could have gone the opposite way, where you don't hear his voice and he knows what you do with it. And fortunately, your health is okay now. It's good now. But, you know, I had a similar moment that is a story for another day with you and me and a glass of wine. It happened actually three times. And it was ego, exact same situation every time. And it was, you know, personal life stuff. And I told my mom, and I remember she said, sage, you know, at the time, she's late 60s, 70 years old, and she said, I have been waiting my whole life to get that kind of a message from God.

[Sage Steele]

Wow.

[Samantha Ponder]

And she said, the fact that you've received it on more than one occasion, she. She's like, I am so envious and happy for you, but so envious. And why do you think that you were able to hear him and receive him in that moment and now use that every day?

[Sage Steele]

Number one, because I was quiet. I hadn't been quiet in 20 years. Like, how can you hear him when you're just, like, running from One place to the next. Everybody's telling you stuff, and you're. I wasn't quiet. So that was the first. But the second reason. So crazy to think back on this now, because I got to show my kids. Sorry. They were with me. We were. We out of an ice skate. We live close to Woman Rink in Central Park. And, you know, it's been a huge blessing. Another thing that this job has allowed me to do, I'm so grateful for that. Have these kids right by this park, and we got our little ice skates, and it's in the winter, and we're carrying our ice skates to go over and go ice skating one day. And I was talking to them on the way about. About what I just heard from God. I had been upstairs when I was just sitting by myself. And when I. I sensed that in my spirit. And so I'm talking to my kids, carrying these ice skates, telling them, like, guys, they had seen me sick, so they knew something was wrong. When you're homeschooling, there's no hiding, you know, they see. They see your full self. They knew I was sick, and I was telling them, like, I felt such a peace when I got that. Like, I'm with you. You're not alone. Felt such a peace that I wanted to share it. You know, like, when you feel like, I just heard from the God of the universe, like, I gotta tell somebody. But, like, these are my only friends right now, so I'm going to tell these kids. And so I told him, we're walking. I was like, guys, I know you guys been praying for me, and we've been talking about it a lot. Now I'm sick and, you know, I'm not sure yet what it is. And I just want to tell you, like, I just heard from the God that made you three that he's with me. I'm not alone. You guys don't need to be afraid for Mommy. Like, and right after. This is so crazy. And I sound like a crazy person saying it, but, like, I got a phone call while I'm walking them. We're not to the rink yet. I got a phone call from the doctor. And this doctor says to me, well, Ms. Ponder, I. I know what I told you before, and I gotta tell you, I'm confused, but you don't have it. You're good. Here's what he told me. I want you to take this multivitamin. So crazy. I want you to take this multivitamin. I'm like a Flintstones.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, what are we Even talking about.

[Sage Steele]

I know. And it would have been something that would have changed my life and changed the way that the kids saw me and interacted with me. I just dropped the bag of ice skates on the ground. I was just like, thank you, Lord. Not just because I'm not. I don't have what I was told I had, but because my kids got to see that I trusted him before I knew, you know, like, that they. They got to see that, like, even when it's scary and you don't know what's going to happen, you can still trust him. He's with you. That what we really want is not to have nothing go wrong, because what a boring life, you know, is to not be alone and not feel that fear and that he offers that to us. And I hadn't slowed down enough in my life to feel that. To feel that security and that safety despite circumstances. Like, I was still thinking, as I'm explaining to them, like, yeah, I've really got this. There were a lot of reasons for me to think it was going to go bad. And so they. To your question, I think it's because my kids got to see, like, I grew up getting to see the faithfulness of my parents. And one of my biggest fears in life is to not pass that legacy on. And I've done a really bad job for the last 20 years of passing that on. But that's not the end of the story. Like, in that moment, they got to see, like, man, my mom trusted God even when she thought her circumstances were bad. And I can do that, too. That's what I hope. And maybe they won't even remember. Maybe they were like, yeah, we went ice skating that day, whatever. But, like, that's my hope for them, is that they can save themselves from some of the pain that I have chosen and lived, because they saw that up front and close as, you know, like, we can say stuff to our kids about, like, faith and do this and make these choices, but, like, all they care about is how you live. Like, they watch you. They. They don't listen to what you say. They. They watch how you live. And so I hope in that moment they saw a woman who was, like, fully dependent on God. No matter if the news was good.

[Samantha Ponder]

Or bad, they will remember.

[Sage Steele]

I hope so.

[Samantha Ponder]

I. I believe that knowing them and how. How in tune they are to you.

[Sage Steele]

Well, that's terrifying.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, it's not. It's beautiful. And I literally, I'm so grateful that you've shared that story, because that is the best Example you can give to your kids because you shared it with them before.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

The phone call from the doctor. Like that right there. The power of God. And we have the same hope, right? Like, I just hope that my kids don't take as long to listen.

[Sage Steele]

Gosh. Same.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, that's all I want.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Please listen. Listen to God number one. Of course. And when they're in their 20s, late teens, early 20s, it's hard.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

All three of my kids are in very different phases right now of that with their faith to the point where, you know, one's like, I don't know, Mom. The other one has tattoos of scriptures now, where I'm like, okay, I thought we were not doing the tattoo thing, but if it's a scripture, I guess it's okay.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, no. What do I do? Oh.

[Samantha Ponder]

Just again, I'm leading the way.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

I can tell you what not to do. For every single thing here, there's so many for sure.

[Sage Steele]

Same.

[Samantha Ponder]

But, like, that's the beauty of it. And I know that we're the same in this way, too. Like, I would go through all of this a hundred thousand times, over and over again. The fear, the pain, the cancellation, the unemployment, the single again, the. Oh, my gosh, take it all. If. If I can make them better.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

If they can be better than me. I believe that's what every parent wants, is for kids to be better. And, you know, yes, they have to have their journey. But, you know, the conversations that you've had with your kids, and I witness it, and then I hear about it, obviously from you. I hope that, like, you need to give yourself more credit. And you're not going to right now. Fine. She's the worst at taking compliments, but, like, they. I have not been around kids like yours ever.

[Sage Steele]

Nah, you made me cry again.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, I'm serious. Like, it's weird. They're too good.

[Sage Steele]

We are weird, actually. We are so weird.

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, this isn't normal. I'm gonna tell a story.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, gosh.

[Samantha Ponder]

We were on the boat the other day, and we had. Well, we had gotten off the boat, and then we're on the houseboat.

[Sage Steele]

There's all kinds of boats out there.

[Samantha Ponder]

I mean, just boats and boats and boats. And my Quinn was with me, my oldest, and then all three of her kids. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You like how I just kind of sent my kids to your boat? I was like, go with Auntie Sage. See it never.

[Samantha Ponder]

Because they let me hug them and mine don't. Except Quinn kind of does, because now she's an Old soul. But, like, I have to bribe the others. Do you know that? With Evan, my youngest, I'm like, okay, five seconds. Let me hug you for. So we go, 1, 1000, 2, 1000, 3, 1000, 4. Then she's like, okay, we're good. I'm like, okay, I got five seconds. That is a win. So enjoy it. But, like, we're over here getting ready. Mickey, Rex's wife is cooking. And we're just sitting up there relaxing, and all of a sudden, I see Scout come up to Quinn, and she's like, I need to talk to you.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, gosh.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I was watching the whole thing. I'm like, what is this? And Quinn's like, I don't know. This is so fun. Because my Quinn is 23, but she is a child at heart and always will be, and I hope she never loses it. And so Scout's like, there's a. What? What was the party? There's. They're having a luau. Yeah, they're having a luau on the boat across the marina. Like, four steps across, right? They're having a luau. They invited us. You want to go? And Quinn's like, are you sure they invited us? She's like, yeah, look. And they have the lays and they have the coconut bras.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, of course, of course.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I look over and Scout has all three. I mean, her two siblings and Quinn over there. And they are part of this family's luau.

[Sage Steele]

Strangers to me. Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I'm like. And they come back over and they have lays and of course, all the coconut broth.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, yeah. Christian loved that.

[Samantha Ponder]

Christian loved that part. He's like, what exactly is going on? And I'm like, what? 11 year old girl says, hey, let's go to their party and go say hi. And I look over and Quinn came back and Scout is holding court with this family and polite and a great handshake and smiles and looks after her brother and sister, and they look after each other like, I don't know. They are beautiful little souls. And you've always been a great mom. This past year, another level, because you're there. It isn't about what makes you a great mom. It is the presence of being there. And for me to witness this a year later and to see their growth is awesome. So, hell yeah. Fire her every. Every day of the week. Say what you want about us, right? Because your kids are winning. They are incredible human beings.

[Sage Steele]

Well, thank you for saying that. Especially because I came here today off of a full breakdown argument about who got the last peach this morning in our hotel. The peach is here, that peach truck.

[Samantha Ponder]

And that's full.

[Sage Steele]

Have you had the peaches? No, the peach truck. You don't know about this? I'll tell you about that later. But they were fighting over it. No, we're a mess like everybody else and our kids fight and it is, I mean, homeschooling three kids, it's something, it's a lot. But I will say, I just know that I will never ever, not for a second regret spending more time with them. Because I'm the one now, for better or for worse, I'm the one doing the training, hearing the complaint, helping them work through their own issues like that is one of the great things about living in New York City is there's such a high dependence on independence. Like my kids can, you know, take the train and walk themselves when they were in school. They would walk themselves to school or walk to a friend's house or go to the bodega on the corner. My 8 year old's like going to pick up drinks on the corner and come soda on the corner. And so there's. And they run a little lemonade stand out front. And my 8 year old son sells baseball cards out in front of the house and like has his own little business and scout sells bracelets. And you know, there's a high value on independence. So they do get a lot. They're interacting with people all day, every day. Like they've been rejected many, many times and learned how to deal with that. So a lot of it is just me being around enough to facilitate opportunities for them to grow away from me, which is kind of strange, but like I'm there and they don't realize I'm upstairs, like watching them while they sell all this stuff on the street or whatever. But it gives them a sense of autonomy and capability. Like, why can't I go over to that boat and meet some people? It's the same thing my parents told me when I was a kid that I want my kids to understand if you can get that you are no more valuable than anybody else, but you are no less valuable than anybody else. You can walk into any room with your head held high with a certain humble confidence that says, like, I know I'm not more special than you, but I'm not less special than you either. So why can't I look you in the eye and shake your hand and have a conversation And I don't understand. I don't care if you're, you know, 65 now. I had to remind my six year old this week because she's over there like, hey, Rex, what are you doing? I'm like, what? This is a grown man. You can't talk to him like that. We have to have those conversations. My six year old who's like, maybe more on the confidence than the humility.

[Samantha Ponder]

It was me, Rex, Mickey, sitting at the table. And all of a sudden Price pulls out the chair, pulls right up, and she's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, oh, no fear. You have given that. That is priceless. That is something that they carry with them long after we're gone. And therefore your grandchildren and their kids, like, this is a gift that you've been. And you were always present, but not mentally, physically, physically present, but now mentally there too. And these little differences are just life altering.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I mean, it means so much to me that you would even notice a difference because I do feel a different. Not like I feel like I'm doing great. Are you kidding me? Every day. My oldest is like, so when are you going back to work? Get out. Okay. Like, Dave asked Scout, he was sitting, talking to her because he was asking me about homeschool and I'm explaining, like, all this stuff we do art at the Met and we're, you know, taking the train up to Boston for the American Revolution and we're going to D.C. and going to the White House. I'm like, you know, bringing up the good things about it. Yeah. So Dave looks at her like a normal person would and it's like, so what do you think? If your mom is a teacher, she's like the worst.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, no.

[Sage Steele]

You know what? At least you have the confidence to say how you feel. We're working on that. Like, we're. This is a good thing. We're, you know, so you as the parent, you're just taking L's constantly. But then, like, I'll take all those L's if. Then when they're around other people, they know, like back. It's way back there, but like back there, they know, like, oh, this is how you treat people. That's when, like, this is how you ask this and have a conversation and, you know, make that person feel important. Like, that's what I'm hoping they're getting. I'll take all the. As you know, because you've dealt with it with young kids who are now older. I'm okay with you hating me for a while.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, hopefully it's not like a deep seated hate, but like Being annoyed with me and thinking the worst. That's how I felt about my parents for a while. And then, you know, mid-20s, then you come back and you see like, oh, wow. Actually, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, maybe they did tell me some good things.

[Samantha Ponder]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I love you, Mom. I'm sorry. Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And that's the hope. That's the hope because I'm messing up a date. A. A ton of stuff. I mean, I. I will say I have never apologized so much in my life. I mean, it's literally at the end of every day, hey, buddy. Sorry about how I handled that, or I just trying. But what I realized is by me doing that, where I would have thought in the beginning, oh, are they going to respect me less? Or like, think I don't know what I'm doing? It's contagious because then I'll hear them saying that to each other or like, the way they soften when I say I'm sorry. Because I. I normally try and, you know, be pretty sure with them. So they have a sense of like, okay, there's someone in charge here. I know that, you know, she's in charge and I'm the kid. Like, I do want there to be that boundary. But then when I apologize for things, it's almost like it softens them.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And they get more used to then apologizing and it kind of like it's.

[Samantha Ponder]

A muscle you build and. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

That they're not going to be crushed if they apologize.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, yes, yes. So we're. I mean, gosh, we are so much a work in progress. And if you ask me, we're doing all right. If you ask the kids, they probably say we're not doing all right.

[Samantha Ponder]

But I've also then seen the kids and I can take a step back and when you're in it, it is. It's so hard.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

But I love that you have taken on this role. A role that you never had on your bingo card. That's for sure. But like, the fact that you are. You're probably learning too, right?

[Sage Steele]

About you can even me Sage. The number of times they're like, mom, can you help me with this? And I want to be like, no, actually, I know.

[Samantha Ponder]

I know none of this Google.

[Sage Steele]

If I didn't have chat, GPT.

[Samantha Ponder]

Are you kidding me?

[Sage Steele]

I'm like, what should I do today? I am their teacher. You know, there's so many.

[Samantha Ponder]

It's genuinely interesting.

[Sage Steele]

It's, oh, chat. Their real Teacher. They say they don't like me as their teacher. Their real teacher is.

[Samantha Ponder]

Dislike you.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. I'm just going to pass that on a w. A. I. Yes, for sure. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm learning a ton. We're doing homeschool together. We are, we are all learning as we go.

[Samantha Ponder]

What's next? Sam, how many millions of times you've been asked that?

[Sage Steele]

It's not fair that you ask me this cuz you know the answer. And the answer I have no freaking clue what I'm doing with.

[Samantha Ponder]

Well, but, but I, I, I actually think that is a great answer too because we're not supposed to know. Like this has been your life for decades and all of a sudden it's not. And you've been really busy since doing things are way more important than anything we've ever accomplished professionally. Right. And so there's no time frame, there's no timeline on this. You don't have to know.

[Sage Steele]

Well, and I was always in such a rush. I mean I even look at when I was a kid, man, I was just always rushing to get to the next thing, you know, the next stage of life. I think it's Thomas Rhett that has the song about like when you're looking forward to when you're 16 and you could drive and then you're 21 and you can drink and go out and you're, you know, it's like when I get married or when I have kids. Well, I've done all that now and I've seen that not one of those stages. Are you like, okay, I'm good now. Like I can rest in this, you know, it's like, what's coming next? So I'm trying to not do that this time around. I don't want to miss. I mean, I would like to figure out whatever giftings I, I have if there are some outside of what I've always done, because this is all I've known. But I've seen the result of the, like, I've got a plan, I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna do that. And because I was such a dreamer and like I'm gonna have all this stuff and just do it my own way. And I've seen the result of that. I mean, I got all the things I ever thought I wanted by like 26. More money than I ever thought I would have. The cars, the stuff, the husband, the kid on the way, the house, the job, the all. And like, are you kidding me? Showed who I really was. Deep down in a way that is so terrifying that now I can look back and say, like, I mean, thank God I was able to learn some of this stuff early. But I don't know if it was a gift or a curse to get all that. Like, I can look back and see, like, would I have been better off if I would have just been content with a little, you know, I don't know. I can't answer that question. I wouldn't have my husband. I wouldn't have my kids. So obviously I'm happy with the result of some of those choices, but I don't want to repeat that same mistake again. And, like, anytime I get an email or a call from someone that's like, hey, you want to do this job or you want to come here? Obviously it's flattering. Like, I'm. I'm glad that anybody cares or thinks I have anything of value, but I don't want to be. What does a proverb talk about? Like a dog returning to its vomit. Like, I don't want to be the person that just makes the same mistake again. But now it's in a new lane. So now it's going to be different this time. Like, no, I know. I know my temptations. I know how quickly it is to get sucked back into that. Like, approve of me. Everyone tell me I'm, you know, this, that, and the other. And I want to be a better example for my kids of, like, what is real success? You know, like, what does it actually. Does it really mean just, like, a certain amount of money in your bank account? Because if that's true, I've met way too many rich people to think that's what I want. So I don't know. I. I genuinely have no idea. I know we're gonna homeschool for one more year.

[Samantha Ponder]

Are you? And travel.

[Sage Steele]

We're gonna go do. My parents have lived in the Middle east for part time for, like, over 15 years. And so we're gonna do, like, a tour of biblical history. I took my oldest to Israel a couple years ago, and we're gonna try and go back. Obviously, a lot of volatility over there. So we don't have that exactly scheduled, but I want to kind of walk them through. Like, these aren't just stories. Like, these are the real places. You know, like, you can stand on the Mount of Olives, you know, you can be at Bethesda. You can, you know, all this. These things that will make the stories we're telling them feel real, because they are. And then maybe do Like a World War II European journey and just travel for a while and live simply on the road and stay at bad hotels. That is what we've got to do. I know we've talked about this before, but these kids live too fancy for too long. Starting to think, like, oh, I don't. This. My son walked into a hotel in Nashville and was like, this room is tiny. I was like, you're sleeping on the street. Like, I'm sorry. These kids, because they grew up with stuff. And, like, I. I had a level of gratitude. I had a million other problems, but a level of gratitude that came from, like, oh, wow, I've never gotten to do this before.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And, you know, our kids grew up just expecting. So anyway, Christian's going to hate it because he's going to have to suffer along with us. I'm like, we need to take these kids on, like, a real trip. And even though they're going to do these amazing things, like, live a little simply along the way, so I don't know. I know we're going to do that. Other than that, I don't have a clue. You're stuck with me, so you'll, you know.

[Samantha Ponder]

So stuck.

[Sage Steele]

No getting away.

[Samantha Ponder]

Because we're twinsies.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

There's so many people who have Britney.

[Sage Steele]

Oh.

[Samantha Ponder]

Called you or tried and texted over the last year, and I think many have good intentions.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, sure.

[Samantha Ponder]

You know, Others maybe not so much. That's fine. What is your message to all those people who, regardless of their intent for reaching out, but have been like, gosh, what happened?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

What happened to Sam? And how is Sam?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Yes. I can say multiple true things. One, I think an element of why I was fired was, if you want to call it unjust or let's just say it in another way for a ridiculous reason. I think part of why I got fired was that it's just my opinion. And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. Not like in a fake, like, oh, yeah, it led me to my path. But, like, genuinely, I have been with my kids all the time, getting to know them. And Sage, they know me for better or for worse. Like, they really know me. And I think for a lot of parents, you're so, like, trying to keep things together and present things a certain way with your kids, especially in generations before us, that until your kids are adults, your kids don't really know you, you know, And I can say, like, I feel like my kids, they see the bad, but we're connected in a way that we wouldn't have been, certainly not right now, if this would not have happened. I will also say to everybody out there because I've heard from so many people who have said like we agree with you but you know, fill in the blank. Telling the truth, as long as, as you do it from a place of, of love, like genuine love, clarity is kindness. If you can tell the truth from a place of love, do it now. Because what happened is we all self censored except for you.

[Samantha Ponder]

No, no, but I did until I didn't. I did for years too.

[Sage Steele]

We, we self censor and so then we're the, the silent majority. And that's dangerous. Like quite literally. I mean my daughter, who's 6, walked into a women's bathroom with a man dressed in next to nothing, live streaming himself in states of undress inside a woman's bathroom, talking about as I walked in because I was a little bit behind her saying look at this innocent little girl on his live stream, videotaping. What it's dangerous for us to tell women. One, to be quiet, two to not trust their gut instinct. I mean we talk about, believe all women. That's what they wanted to say for a while there about other stuff, right? How about tell women to trust that internal whatever it is that says. Like you know what she said when she came out? She said I got a creepy feeling when I was in there. And I said price you trust that feeling. When you get that creepy feeling, you get away, you tell somebody, you say something. And we are raising up a generation of girls who instead of being told to trust that feeling or say something, speak up. No, no, you be quiet. You need therapy. Don't say anything. Keep it quiet, it's offensive. Guess what? I am done caring. If I offend that man in there with my six year old daughter, I'm done. And that doesn't make me unloving. Like who are we caring for here? The six year old little girl or the man who is clearly unwell? And any honest person can recognize that. I don't care what end of the political spectrum you are on, you're around someone like that. I was up close and personal with him. He is clearly unwell and he deserves compassion and help, not lies. We do not tell someone who is anorexic. Yeah, you know what? You are fat. I'm gonna affirm. Let's affirm your 16 year old daughter who thinks she's fat when she's 100 pounds. No, affirming is not love. Telling the truth, of course with kindness and compassion is Love, like, we need to be honest. And it's what I didn't do for years. For years, I kept my mouth shut until people like you went first. And you get a little bit of courage and a little bit more courage, and then eventually, eventually you get that jolt of courage and you say something. We all need to do that because we all know, like, we all, deep down, we know that this is not right. So that's what I would say. I'm good.

[Samantha Ponder]

You're great is what you're sad.

[Sage Steele]

And you can be sad about the end of something and excited about a new season, and that's me. And want to encourage other people. Speak up. Do it with kindness. Be compassionate. Don't be mean or rude, but say what's true.

[Samantha Ponder]

You never got a reason why, though. They never flat out said, here is why.

[Sage Steele]

I think when they read that script, I think they said business reasons, which I think is true, because I think they were worried about Disney. You know, that activist group that they told me about privately. You know, I would get calls later from different bosses, and they.

[Samantha Ponder]

The email that we both got two minutes apart in the summer of 2023 about. And that mentioned, I think, or at least someone later did, the group that was based in Burbank, maybe moving to Orlando and Disney, and that they are angry that we are saying what we're saying, which is, of course, supporting women. So this group's very, very, very small.

[Sage Steele]

Vocal minority, but they control a lot of companies. I mean, a lot of really big companies, which is why a lot of people are scared.

[Samantha Ponder]

But you don't. They never said, you shouldn't have said this. You shouldn't have said that. You shouldn't have tweeted this. Yeah, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

The email they sent me back that had detailed every tweet I said sent and why it was.

[Samantha Ponder]

Right. But I mean, what, at your firing?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, no, no. At the firing. No, that was a. I bet it was less than a minute phone call. I mean, it was really quick. There was no. That's another thing people need to remember. Like, I worked there for 14 years. They didn't even acknowledge. And I don't need them to acknowledge. This is just stating the facts. Like, there was no, like, all right, Sam's no longer part of the company, and now we're hiring this person who's just, like, I remember I was sitting on the couch, and because I felt fine about it, I could still watch espn. I still watch Countdown. Like, I'm still a fan of those guys. I love those guys. And literally it was like a week later they had a promo for the show and it was our. I was just cut out of everything. I actually photoshopped it. Yeah, they didn't have time to, like, take new pictures and everything, so they just used the same ones and just kind of worked around. I actually thought that was kind of funny. But what would your message be to.

[Samantha Ponder]

To what I think was once a great network? Like, I firmly believe that the place where we began was great. I do not believe that anymore. And it actually, it breaks my heart because as a sports fan, which is all that any of us are as a sports fan, you know, I feel like, is it too late? Can they get back?

[Sage Steele]

No, it's not too late. It's not too late. And they just have to decide, like, look, the. The corporate elements and the Disney stuff, the Disney part makes it complicated and I'm sure. But here's the thing. I know many liberal people in positions of power there that agree on this. I was told privately, like, you know, we agree with you on this, but there's a loud activist group at Disney. So what I would say is the same thing. I was just saying, like, for them too, like, this is why we have to tell the truth. Because if all those people told the truth when they're in the meetings and the people are. It's just assumed, everybody agrees, like, right, we're fine with this. We need to affirm. We need to, you know, no misgendering. Well, it's like, well, the courage it takes to be the first one in that meeting when you have a cushy corporate job. I know how hard it is because I've been in those rooms and not raised my hand. But I would say the same thing to those guys who fired me. I don't think the guys who fired me, I know some of them don't. But believe any of this. They're just going along to get along. They don't want to lose their jobs. Everybody's got their 401k and they're. But the vast majority and certainly anyone who, like, was a legit athlete. The number of pro athletes. Are you kidding me? That have. But those people, I mean, I think Aaron Rodgers was the first one recently in terms of like a big name pro athlete that was like, yeah, this is ridiculous. Oh, yeah. But. Well, that's what makes sense around the dinner table. We're in those rooms still. We still have a lot of friends that played or are playing. And. And it's. It's almost laughable that this is Even an issue. It's so ridiculously unfair. My daughter in New York City sports has now played against two boys, had to guard two boys who are already more developed and are just naturally bigger. I can always tell by the way, I mean, it's, I'll spare the details, but what they need to do is they need to be honest.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Not on a phone call, not, you know, whispering. If everybody would just be honest, this problem would go away.

[Samantha Ponder]

It would be gone. It would have been gone a long time. It never would have gotten to this point. And if we truly believe in diversity and equity and inclusion and acceptance and tolerance, you know, I've said this forever. It begins with diversity of thought. And we can have different opinions and speak different opinions and still work together and not fire people for being different or suspend, cancel people for being different. And that's what I want these leaders to do. Number one, just tell the truth and do it with kindness and love. And number two, be consistent. And it's not just the people that you agree with or agree with your narrative that can speak up the different rules that different people at ESPN have. That is diversity is diversity of thought and to not crush others who aren't a different, you know, they have a different opinion for whatever reason, it's okay. But I, yes, because I, I, I can't shut up about it until I see a change.

[Sage Steele]

I am curious about this because I've wrestled with this in my own mind. And I would love your perspective when I, when you say, like, you know, the selective choosing of, like, who gets to say what they think about things, I think it was obvious. And when we had people on our air at ESPN that were, like, talking about, you know, being pro abortion and different, like, there were things that had nothing to do with sports that were said, said on the air. So it was clear that there was, there was one angle that was allowed. I think that's pretty universally known at this point. But I guess my question about that, because in the beginning I was like, yeah, that's so unfair. But then I thought, but if Disney, the company that owns them, clearly has that agenda, isn't it their company? Like, so at the end of the day, isn't it more on us for, like, hey, if I really don't align with this company and their values, well, then why am I cashing checks?

[Samantha Ponder]

You're right.

[Sage Steele]

You know, like, I had that, I don't know if you want to call it guilt or whatever of being like, how can I say, you know, it's not fair that you don't let me speak up on this. And they're like, yeah, because we disagree with that and we think that that's, you know, we think you're a bigot or a hateful, you know, or whatever.

[Samantha Ponder]

I was a racist who hated women.

[Sage Steele]

That's me. Yeah, clearly. But, yeah, I've wrestled with that. Like, okay, well, maybe that's just on me for working for a company that clearly, I mean, really doesn't align on values. And then shouldn't I just shut up about if I'm gonna. If I'm gonna take their money? That's why for a while I. And maybe this is. I don't know if I'm thinking about it the wrong way, but what's your perspective?

[Samantha Ponder]

I think it's very fair. I liken it back to my NBA days when the LA Clippers and Donald Sterling was the owner and he was doing all these crazy racist things for years and years and years and years. But then I think Doc Rivers ended up being the head coach there. And he's like, yeah, I knew it for years, but like, he knew it, but he still took the job and cashed that check. And I was always confused by that. And I love Doc, but I was like, wait, if you knew it ahead of time, then that's. Then why do you take that job? ESPN wasn't like that.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, that's true. I did not know that when I started.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah. Timing wise, it didn't. Maybe it was, but we never felt it. It was never discussed. And the world changed. Social media and I believe things really turned when Obama became president shortly in 2016 with Trump. So it was an evolution to the point. Because we were told for years, no politics.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Samantha Ponder]

And no one did it. We all listened. And then when Trump got elected, when our executives began tweeting how livid they were that Trump was president over Hillary. These are our bosses who told us not to tweet anything. Started to do it. It was just confusing. So when it, like, I was happy for the no politics policy because it was consistent.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And then that was the thing. Don't tell us we can't do it and allow them to. Yeah, but not others. So which one is it? And if that's the case now, like, now I know.

[Sage Steele]

And then just be honest about it. Just be honest and say your views don't align with our values. So we don't want you speaking on them because you represent our company.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes. And if you're gonna let. Fill in the blank all these other names who do It. Okay, fine. But it was never said. It just was like, yeah, I literally did.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, no, it was. It was said on the phone to me one time because I was told I couldn't do something. And I literally just came back and said, well, I'm watching another person at our company. This was what you're doing this last.

[Samantha Ponder]

Year, 2023, right before you got fired?

[Sage Steele]

See what I mean?

[Samantha Ponder]

Like, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I said, I'm watching this person doing it right now. I was literally watching them on tv. And the response was, I wrote it down. Because I was like, I cannot believe this was just said to me. They just said, you know, the rules are different for him. And I. I just feel like the go, is he here?

[Samantha Ponder]

I think he's here. I'm like, and.

[Sage Steele]

And in some ways, I know it sounds strange, but I respected that more. Like, yes, that's what you guys need to do. You need to say. Because frankly, with who this person was and is, I was like, yeah, he brings more money to the company than I do. I understand the capitalist nature of all this. This makes sense. You need to make money. For a while there, I was like, are we not trying to make money? We need to make money as a company. I'm like, we need to understand the business element of all this. So I'm fine with that. But just say it.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Be clear that the rules are not the same for everyone. Like, this is not about equity.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

You know, this is actually, we need to make money, and this makes us more money. Some people have asked me, like, why are some people at the company allowed to speak on this issue? And some people are not. And the answer is very simple. They're more valuable to the company.

[Samantha Ponder]

They're more valuable to the company. Like, and they go along with the narrative that Bob Iger and everybody on down, even if they don't fully believe it, that is how they're having their people practice. That is that. That is what has been deemed acceptable through all their actions and words in some cases. I just think it happened kind of under our noses, and we were just grinding away and going to work every day. And then it was like, huh, that's weird. Okay, back to work.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

Yeah. Well, that's weird. Okay. And then, yeah, for me, it was so blatant, and you are suspended and you are this. And then. But at the same time, some of those same people are saying the exact opposite. Like, on their platforms, when I'm, like, doing it over here one day versus every day. So then it was like, okay, Now I'm not doing this anymore. And now I'm going to call you on it because of it. So I completely agree. We know that. And they are private companies. They do have a right to do that. I always said to my. I have a younger brother. Much, much, much younger. And 20 years ago, I was. He was like, I thought, job at ups. And he's like, I'm like, well, if you don't like the brown uniforms, like, don't work at ups, because you have to wear the brown uniforms there. Right. And they're ugly. But, like, that's part of it. And if you don't like it, don't take that job. I view it the same way. If we don't like. Now, we all know this happened while we were there.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

In those later stages. And at the end of the day, we all do have choices. And you. I'll shut up after this because we need six more hours and spend today. I'm so sorry I've kept you. I am so proud of you. And I say this as a sister, not, like, because I'm older or a year ahead in whatever way. I am so proud of you because screw anything you did in your career and on tv, it was beautiful and amazing every time while you're being a mother, all those things, like, your faith is what has guided you through so much, and it has helped me more than you know. And like, like, we grew up differently Catholic, but, like, we're not into Scripture and the Bible. It's just different. And then you are open about yours. And when I. When you share it on your Instagram story, when you're doing the ask me whatever questions, like, I screenshot that, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, you have continued to help me. And I know you imagine the millions of people that you are continuing to help by being open with your faith and now by being open about your experience and your feelings and your vulnerabilities. Please, please don't underestimate what you are doing for others right now. And the way you've chosen to handle this, with grace, such grace and class and humility. Like, I look up to you in so many ways. Okay. Just know that. And I thank you for trusting me because I know that this is not anything you wanted to talk about because it's painful.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Samantha Ponder]

And I'm just honored. And I'm so damn proud of you.

[Sage Steele]

Know, that you've led the way. The only reason I would get those little, like, minutes of courage is because I watched you walk through it and call you crying. I watched you walk through it, and, man, it is. Doing the right thing is contagious. Be around people like this who will do the right thing, even at great personal cost, because that courage will rub off. You really. You went first and gave me. Gave me the courage. And if I could just say one last thing, because it really is, like, my only real message. I hope this doesn't come across like I'm bitter or angry or, like, mad or anybody. Like, I feel none of those feelings. But here's what I just want people to know. Like, God is faithful when we are not. Like, I messed so much stuff up, and he was still there. Like, when everything went away, he was still there. The same thing he said to me. He says to everybody else, like, you are not alone. He's with you. It's never too late. Doesn't matter how you grew up. Doesn't matter what you're going through. Doesn't matter how bad things are feeling right now. It is never too late. I'm so glad I got to live it so I can say that from a place of experience and not like, oh, I'm preaching to people. Or, I was told this. Like, yeah, I was told that my parents lived it, but now I can say, I lived it. Like, I lived it. I just had the best year of my life. I got fired. I'm a homeschool mom. It's ridiculous. I have to laugh, because if you would have told me, you're pushing 40 and you just lost your job, you got three kids around you complaining all the time because you're the worst teacher, and there's uncertainty. I don't know. I don't know what's coming next. A lot of uncertainty. If you told me that, I would have been like, man, things went real bad. Like, how things get that bad? That is the exact opposite. Like, thank God. Thank God for good friends. For good friends like you. Seriously, the most loyal friend I've ever had. And thank God that he's faithful even when we are. I love you.

[Samantha Ponder]

I'm so sorry I talked so much. I am sorry I'm sobbing. I'm sorry I kept you and the world, man. Watch out, because it is just. It is just beginning. Hug those babies and.

[Sage Steele]

Are you kidding me? They want to move in with you.

[Samantha Ponder]

What did Scout call me? The God fairy? Mother. I love you, girl. Thank you.

[Sage Steele]

You love you. Gosh, I didn't want to cry that many times. I specifically went to Walgreens and bought a waterproof mascara just because I knew I was gonna be.