Senator John Kennedy on the Venezuela Mission & The Truth About ICE | Sage Steele Show | EP 89

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Sage Steele Show – EP 89

Guest: Senator John Kennedy
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Sage Steele
Main Themes: Venezuela Mission, ICE and Immigration, Media Trust, Political Change, Personal Integrity

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Sage Steele welcomes Louisiana Senator John Kennedy for a candid, wide-ranging discussion on U.S. involvement in Venezuela, the complexities of immigration enforcement and ICE, the transformation of American political culture, the state of the media, and the importance of personal integrity and faith. Senator Kennedy brings his signature humor and folksy wisdom, offering sharp insights while sharing memorable personal stories about politics, loss, and leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Venezuela Mission: Motives, Successes, and the Path Forward

(06:41–24:10)

• Military Excellence and Rescue Operation

  • Senator Kennedy commends the U.S. military for a recent high-stakes operation in Venezuela, noting "no other military in the world could have done this" ([06:56]).
  • The mission was framed as a law enforcement action to arrest Nicolás Maduro, not an invasion.
  • Kennedy praises military professionalism and highlights a detailed classified briefing led by General Kane, emphasizing the feat's difficulty and the lack of American casualties ([06:41]).

• Root Causes and the Challenge of Democracy

  • Kennedy denounces Maduro as a "thug" who led a "criminal organization"—involved in drugs, gold mining, human trafficking—maintaining power by bribing the military ([11:50]).
  • The real issue now is “what comes next”: stabilizing Venezuela, restoring self-determination, and ensuring the military backs democracy.
  • Kennedy underscores the difficulty for ordinary Venezuelans to support democracy under the threat of “prison, torture or death” ([15:24]).

• Role of Oil

  • Kennedy acknowledges oil is a factor: “You can't ignore the oil...Venezuela has the world's greatest oil reserve” ([16:52]).
  • However, he stresses it should not be the sole motivator for U.S. involvement, and outlines economic challenges ahead ($100 billion in infrastructure needed).

• Future Prospects & U.S. Involvement

  • The hope is that Venezuela embraces democracy given a fair chance, but change depends equally on U.S. and Venezuelan military actions.
  • Key Quote: “If we do this right, we will look back in a year or two...and say this is the best thing that happened to us.” ([14:35])

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2. ICE, the Border, and the American Immigration Debate

(26:10–36:14)

• Role and Assessment of ICE

  • Kennedy says, “ICE has been given a job,” pointing out the distinction between legal and illegal immigration ([26:10]).
  • Compares border security to locking your front door—not out of hatred but concern for those inside ([26:18]).

• Systemic and Political Challenges

  • Cites the estimated influx of 12–20 million illegal immigrants under the previous administration, the difficulty in tracking, and mass releases by foreign governments ([30:47]).
  • Calls the southern border under President Biden “an open, bleeding wound” and critiques the media's portrayal and public protests against ICE.

• Emotional vs. Rational Public Perception

  • Criticizes the tendency to highlight only sympathetic stories, ignoring the scale and criminal elements involved.
  • Offers practical insights: more training for officials, a rational debate on who and how many immigrants to admit, and the need to revamp the legal immigration system ([34:01], [32:54]).

• Reform Impediments

  • Talks of failed attempts to reform immigration law, blocked by demands for blanket amnesty.
  • “The American people don't support that, and I can't vote for that.” ([32:55])

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3. Political Culture: Polarization, Socialism, and Shifting Identities

(36:28–44:28)

• New York City, Socialism, and Voter Decisions

  • Kennedy comments on New York’s election of a candidate openly embracing socialism after the victory.
  • “Socialism is for morons. New York is the greatest city...This will not work.” ([37:29])
  • Warns of disastrous policies—such as government seizure of housing—that will fail both economically and socially.

• Party Realignment and Kennedy’s Own Shift

  • Kennedy explains his switch from Democrat to Republican (in 2005–06), reflecting Louisiana’s evolution and the Democratic Party’s shift to the left ([41:05]).
  • Predicts the party cannot succeed until it “purges their whack jobs”—referring to “the loon wing” exemplified by Mamdani and AOC ([43:00]).

• Media, Trust, and Echo Chambers

  • Highlights how the Russia hoax and the COVID-19 pandemic eroded public trust in the media.
  • “The American people lost a lot of confidence in the news industry.” ([49:17])
  • Praises podcasts for letting people “get to know a person and...trust a person,” contrasting with mainstream news’ speed and bias ([48:41]).

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4. Leadership, Integrity, & Humor in Public Life

(61:33–74:47)

• Faith, Integrity, and Hard Choices

  • Shares a story of losing an election rather than betraying a mentor, paraphrasing, “What does it profit a man to win the world but lose his soul?” ([62:09])
  • Emphasizes resilience: “I refuse to hate. When I say my prayers, one of the things I ask for...is not to hate.” ([62:09])

• Enduring Public Criticism

  • Kennedy’s coping strategy: “If I think I’m making the right people mad, I’m ok with that...I sleep with the fan on.” ([65:09])
  • Offers a humorous anecdote of receiving a creative insult on social media ([66:44]).

• Faith and Doubt

  • Speaks candidly about his Methodist faith, quoting Kierkegaard on the leap of faith in uncertain times.
  • “When bad things happen to good people...All you have is faith. And it is hard and I’m not ashamed to pray for it.” ([67:21])

• Kennedy’s Folksy Wisdom

  • Admits to admiring good writing and memorizing clever phrases he encounters ([69:40]).
  • Example one-liner: “God is great, dogs are good and people are crazy.” ([57:53])
  • Defends bluntness on contentious issues—such as transgender rights and book content—by insisting sometimes “you have to be raw...to get it through their thick skulls.” ([70:40])

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5. Memorable Stories & Personal Moments

(57:39–61:07, 54:13–55:27, 56:07–56:57)

• After Hurricane Katrina: Kennedy described risking his reputation and running makeshift dog shelters when FEMA refused to let evacuees bring pets, illustrating both compassion and government short-sightedness.

  “That was like a rock, only dumber...I just said, I’ll get your dog back to you.” ([57:54])

• On President Biden’s Health & Media Complicity:

  • Both Sage and Kennedy recount early encounters with Biden in 2021, privately recognizing cognitive decline.
  • Kennedy: “Nice man… but...he’s at that stage in life where you might get four or five hours a day and then he just needs an early bedtime and some soup.” ([51:50])
  • Sage blasts Jill Biden and staff for allowing Biden to continue despite his health ([55:27]).

• On Donald Trump’s Stamina:

  • Kennedy shares late-night phone calls from Trump and jokes about Trump’s lifestyle.

  “Other than golf, you don’t exercise, you eat anything that won’t eat you first...He said ‘good genes’.” ([56:07])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Division Over the Venezuela Mission:

  “Many of my Democratic friends...allow their distaste for President Trump to interfere with their judgment. If President Trump came out in favor of breathing, they would hold their breath.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([11:50])

• On Immigration:

  “Most Americans lock their front door at night. They don’t lock their front door...because they hate everybody on the outside. They lock their front door because they love people on the inside.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([26:18])

• On Self-Determination:

  “It’s hard to embrace democracy when you think the price you pay...is either prison, torture, or death.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([15:24])

• On Political Realignment:

  “I’m gonna always vote the way you would want me to vote, or the way you would want me to vote if you have the information that I have, but you don’t.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([62:09])

• On Humor and Integrity:

  “If I think I’m making the right people mad, I’m ok with that… My friends say ‘How do you sleep at night knowing people hate you?’ I tell them, ‘with the fan on.’”
  – Senator Kennedy ([65:09])

• On Leadership and Faith:

  “I refuse to hate...When I say my prayers, one of the things I ask God is, don’t let me hate.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([62:09])

• On Strength in International Relations:

  “Weakness invites the wolves...There are people...they want to kill us and drink our blood out of a boot...They don’t understand reason. They understand strength.”
  – Senator Kennedy ([73:18])

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Key Timestamps

• 06:41 U.S. military briefing on Venezuela, operation success
• 11:50 Political division around the Venezuela intervention
• 16:50 Venezuela’s oil reserves and economic challenges
• 26:10 Kennedy on ICE, legal vs. illegal immigration
• 32:13 Immigration system reform and party stalemate
• 36:28 New York City, socialism, and political campaigns
• 41:05 Kennedy’s party switch explained
• 49:17 Media trust, Russian hoax, impact on institutions
• 54:13 Sage’s experience interviewing Biden in 2021
• 57:39 Kennedy’s rescue of Katrina survivors’ pets
• 62:09 Personal stories of integrity and public service
• 67:21 Kennedy discusses his faith and coping with doubt
• 73:18 “Weakness invites the wolves” philosophy

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Final Reflections

Senator Kennedy offers listeners wit and wisdom, blending cutting critique, self-deprecating humor, and open-hearted faith. He defends the necessity of the U.S. intervention in Venezuela as a law enforcement action, emphasizes ICE's lawful role, and addresses the hardships of holding to principle and civility in public life. Kennedy’s candor on media corruption, political polarization, and the emotional toll of public service makes for a textured, illuminating conversation that is as entertaining as it is informative.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Sage]

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[Senator Kennedy]

Just from a political standpoint, you never interfere with your enemy when he's kicking his own ass. When you have hypothermia, you don't strip naked and run in the snow, right? God created the world, but everything else is made in China.

[Sage]

Do you practice these lines? I know everybody asks you that.

[Senator Kennedy]

God blessed me with a really good memory, and I really admire good writing.

[Sage]

What's your assessment of ice?

[Senator Kennedy]

Ice.

[Sage]

Ice.

[Senator Kennedy]

Most Americans lock their front door at night. They don't lock their front door at night because they hate everybody on the outside. They lock their front door because they love people on the inside.

[Sage]

It's like we have this roller coaster ride in New York City.

[Senator Kennedy]

Socialism is for moralized.

[Sage]

Once the votes were counted and he said, I am a democratic socialist, he used the S word.

[Senator Kennedy]

After he won, they said, kennedy, I disagree with what you just said on tv. Plus, you look exactly like my second wife. I said, now, now, that is a great cut. If I think I'm making the right people mad, I'm okay with that. I'm proud of the fact that. That I refuse to hate. But there are people in this world. Some of them are unconscious. They're not sick. They're not mixed up. They're not confused. It's not that their mama or daddy didn't love them enough. They just have a lot of objective evil in them. It's the stage show. It's the stage show.

[Sage]

Look what I got. When my guests come bearing gifts, I'm the real winner here. And the first thing I said when Senator John Kenney walked in was, can I get it autographed? And he had already done it.

[Senator Kennedy]

Absolutely.

[Sage]

But you said nice things before we got done with this, so I don't know.

[Senator Kennedy]

Everybody knows you're a nice person. I follow you.

[Sage]

You do?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yes. I remember when.

[Sage]

You mean your staff just briefed you?

[Senator Kennedy]

No, I remember when you were at espn.

[Sage]

Shut up.

[Senator Kennedy]

I do.

[Sage]

Are you serious?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah. I admired your candor. Really, I did.

[Sage]

Can we end the interview here? Like that is the perfect beginning and ending. Thank you so Much. I wonder if you've ever felt this way throughout your career. Because I. Well, I would get nervous before every broadcast for 30 plus years. And I thought, well, the only one watching is my mom and dad anyway, because they have to. And what I did was I just focus on the job, which is what we should all do. And when you love your job, when you love what you do, it's easier. And I just. I forgot that it was tv, honestly. That's what made me able to be calm enough.

[Senator Kennedy]

Those are the best interviews.

[Sage]

I think so. And that's what I try to. Try to do now. But I mean, kind of, I wonder with you. Like, you've been in this thing, this game for a very, very long time. I feel like over the last decade, it's since you came to the right side basically, that people have always talked about you and your beliefs and your strength and your policies. But I feel like it's gone to another level with you. Do you think so?

[Senator Kennedy]

I remember this has been a long time ago, the very first interview that I ever did, back when I was in state government in Louisiana and I was a lawyer for the governor. And I remember writing out my notes, you know, the points I was going to make. And about halfway through I realized, this isn't working. You just gotta talk and be yourself and forget about the cameras. Now sometimes it's hard and just say what you think. And that's what I've done since then.

[Sage]

When was that exactly?

[Senator Kennedy]

That was in 19. I'm gonna date myself. Sage, 1987.

[Sage]

Okay.

[Senator Kennedy]

I remember it like it was yesterday.

[Sage]

And you were nervous.

[Senator Kennedy]

Nervous as a pregnant nun. That's really, really nervous. I was nervous. I was. I mean, I had just gone. I was practicing law in New Orleans. A reform governor was elected. I knew him. He called me, said, can you come up here to help him? So I had to tell my law partners, give me a few weeks to go to Baton Rouge. And I went up there. I knew. I mean, I knew nothing about state government. I was a lawyer and I taught law. And so I'm learning on the fly. And I had dealt, never dealt with the press.

[Sage]

And it's a. Now it's a whole different ball game.

[Senator Kennedy]

And I've watched it change over the years, but even then, I mean, you know, I knew enough to be scared. But I also learned pretty quickly that you're just better off. My old boss, the goat, then used to say, kennedy, here's the deal. First of all, when a reporter calls, they're usually on deadline. You Call them back. First. He'd say, number two, don't lie. He'd say, number three, you don't have to tell him the whole truth. Okay. But don't ever lie. Okay? You can omit stuff. And he said, be honest and just don't try to finesse it, man. It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.

[Sage]

It is easier, though.

[Senator Kennedy]

It is, right?

[Sage]

And I feel like that's what I always try to tell people is, number one, forget the camera. When I was a very young sportscaster, three plus decades ago, I was so nervous and tight, and I still talk too fast. But at the time, it was bad. And so someone gave me the best advice, and that was to pretend like you're telling a story to somebody in your life that you would tell a story to. So I put a picture in my head of my dad right underneath the camera to talk to him. Yeah, the colonel up there, he knows about the colonel. My dad is going to freak out that you just said that. Thank you.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, thank him for his service.

[Sage]

I thank you. I will. He is my hero and my best friend. And we probably talk two or three times a day, much to their chagrin. But he's the reason why I wanted to become a sportscaster. So I would put his picture in my mind in the lens of the camera, and it made it like. And then the next play, and you're saying it like you would to a friend versus robotic in that broadcaster tone, which is annoying. And people are going to change the channel.

[Senator Kennedy]

We had. Speaking of you, dad, we had a briefing last. Last week. Marco Rubio came over, but he brought with him the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Kane, and he walked us through the activities in Venezuela, step by step. In the last five minutes. It was like, here's what happened at 30 seconds out. 20 seconds out. No other military in the world could have done this. I mean, if anybody doubts that our military is the best in all of human history, they should have. I wish they could have heard General Kane talk about this mission. Whether you agree with it or disagree with it, those men and women are given a job, and they did it with no loss of Americans.

[Sage]

It was incredible.

[Senator Kennedy]

That was incredible.

[Sage]

I believe that the average American today versus even 20 years ago has no comprehension of how difficult something like that is and just what the military really stands for overall. What's your assessment as you've seen the world evolve?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, you know, in my lifetime, I'm one or two years older than you, Sage. I've seen. I remember the Vietnam days when many people held the institution of the military in low esteem. Now, that was unfair. It was okay to hold the politicians who were giving orders to the military in low esteem at that time. But I thought it was very unfair then to our military. But I've watched it flip through the years. And now when you go polling and or talk to the average American, the one institution, maybe the only institution in American life that the American people still have confidence in is the military. It's been a total about face.

[Sage]

Yeah, I remember my dad retired after 23 years in 1993. And that's Bill Clinton. And they were downsizing.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yep.

[Sage]

And morale was falling. And so it certainly can be cyclical and maybe less forces, less numbers now. But I do believe the best men and women right there in position. You know what? Maybe I have several things to talk about and I'm watching the clock. So I'm going to be on time for you, sir.

[Senator Kennedy]

Okay.

[Sage]

Maybe if I could start with a couple of current events topics.

[Senator Kennedy]

You can talk start with anything you want.

[Sage]

Thank you, sir. The first and last person to tell me that for sure, Venezuela. Since you brought it up, I remember waking up on Sunday morning just a couple of weeks ago and going, oh, my goodness. Why do you think there's been such a contrast of reactions? The big game is almost here, and there's no better way to cash in on America's biggest sporting event than prize picks, where it always feels good to be right with the big game right around the corner. This is your last chance, frankly, to get in on football action before next season. So close it out the right way with prize picks and get 50 bucks instantly in lineup funds when you play your first $5. So I'll be honest, what I loved the most about prize picks was just how easy it was to get started. You don't have to be a fantasy expert or lock yourself into a full season. I jumped right in. I picked a few players and suddenly watching the games was way more fun. Every possession actually mattered. I had a lineup going during an NBA game and yep, I won my first pick. That never hurts. One thing that really stood out to me is that prize picks now has early payouts. If your player gets off to a hot start, you can actually cash out before the game is even over. That flexibility is huge, especially during intense games where momentum can swing very fast. And if you're someone who misses fantasy football once your league is over, prize picks keeps it going. You can play every week, even during the playoffs. No draft is required. You just Pick your favorite players and win when they hit their projections. How you play is completely up to you. If you want flexibility, you can choose Flex Play and still get paid even if one of your picks misses or if you're feeling super confident. Power Play gives you access to bigger payouts. Either way, you are in control. Prize picks available in all 50 states, by the way. Withdrawals are fast and secure, deposits are quick and super easy, and you spend more time enjoying the games instead of worrying about those logistics. Download the Prize Picks app today and use Code sage to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code sage to get $50 in lineups and after you play your first $5 Lineup. Prize fix it's good to be right. You have, of course, people on the right saying, absolutely. And from a humane perspective and what the people of Venezuela have gone through, I mean, that's almost all that many of them have ever known, that dictatorship. And then you have the other side that is, you know, just completely crushing the administration for what they're doing. Stay in your lane. I can't keep up with what they are saying because that flips every day too. But, but why do you think today there's such division with this decision?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, many of my Democratic friends, not all of them, but many of them, allow their distaste for President Trump to interfere with their judgment. I mean, it's not all of them, but I have many Senate colleagues. If President Trump came out in favor of breathing, they would hold their breath. I mean, it's just, it's just visceral, it's instinctive. But I don't see how any fair minded person cannot agree that Maduro is a thug. His administration was not just a dictatorship, he was a criminal organization. It's just all there is to it. Illegal drugs, illegal gold mining, human trafficking. That's how he kept the military on his side. That's how he got his money, throwing money at them. He was not the duly elected president of Venezuela. He lost the election. So I have never viewed our arrest of him as an invasion of a foreign country. I've looked at it, as Marco Rubio has explained it, as a law enforcement action that involved the military. Now, he will receive due process, but I will tell you, he'll, he'll have a hard time beating the charges because we had, our government had such good evidence, information, people within the country who were feeding us information. The real issue with Venezuela is what comes next. What I hope comes next is self determination. I hope once the country is stabilized and that's important because Venezuela is dead broke. You know, half the people live in poverty. Many of their people, a third of their population is left, a lot of the well educated folks left. But once the country is stabilized, I hope it has a chance to self determine. Now a lot of that's going to be up to the United States. A lot of that stage is going to be up to the military. Venezuela has embraced democracy before, but it was always only when the military, and there are 120,000 people strong, embraced democracy. Every time Venezuela has rejected democracy, it was the military that was leading the charge. But based on the last election, the people of Venezuela want democracy because there's no question they elected a democrat. And Maduro just refused to to seat.

[Sage]

The personal activity and this was the only way to remove him.

[Senator Kennedy]

If we do this right, we will look back in a year or two and as will especially the people of Venezuela and say this is the best thing that happened to us. But it is very important to me that we not just look at Venezuelan oil or Venezuelan assets interested in values as well. And I don't want to tell Venezuela if they don't want democracy, that's up to them. I believe in self determination. If you give them a chance, they'll embrace democracy.

[Sage]

But to your point about that, to play little devil's advocate there, if they want to embrace democracy, they will. So you could make the argument leave them there, let them figure it out.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, that's true, but it's hard to embrace democracy when you think the price you pay to do it is either prison, torture or death. And there's no question that Maduro, he and his, his team, many of them, many of whom are still in charge, master tortures. They just arrest their enemies. And that's not. There are some people that are, that are brave enough to risk their freedom of their life. But you know humans, we have an instinct to survive. It's the same situation with Cuba. If you gave the Cuban people the right to self determine, they wouldn't choose what they have now. But I understand they're scared nobody. They're worried about their children. Even if they're not worried about themselves. They worry about what would happen to their family if they spoke out. If we can remove that and just allow people to just make their own decisions, I'll be happy whatever they decide.

[Sage]

When half of the country ish here in America says oil, that's the only reason we went into this.

[Senator Kennedy]

It's not, I think you can't ignore the Oil. Because the only export that Venezuela has is oil and it has huge reserves.

[Sage]

Is it true that 20% of the world's oil reserves are in Venezuela?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

Goodness gracious.

[Senator Kennedy]

Venezuela has the world's greatest oil reserve. But they've allowed the infrastructure to deteriorate in order to get to fully develop those reserves. It'll cost probably $100 billion. They're producing about a million barrels of oil a day. Just limping along. You could get that up to 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. But it'll take a lot of money and a lot of time. And this is not a especially good time because the world is awash in oil. And whatever oil companies go in there to help Venezuela, if they go in, they've got to turn a profit. And based on the numbers I see with respect to the Venezuelan oil industry, they would. In order for it to pay out, for them to rev up production, they would have to be able to sell that oil for $80 a barrel. Right now you can't. 60 is maybe. And it wouldn't surprise me if a year from now, oil is $50 a barrel. Wow. So there's a lot of economics involved here. But you can't ignore the oil because it is Venezuela's biggest asset.

[Sage]

People talk about forever wars and that fear. And you know what?

[Senator Kennedy]

It's a real fear.

[Sage]

It's a real fear. And we haven't always done things the right way, that's for sure. And I understand and I agree when people say, you know, how about we take care of our own people first? And obviously it's not quite that simple. Being the United States, we have to be concerned with and help or extradite, in this case, with whatever's going on in the rest of the world. But you mentioned doing this the right way. In your mind, what does that look like? Because yes, we have to go in. We've gone in and stabilize, but what's that line? So we're not overstaying.

[Senator Kennedy]

It's interesting. I wish the American people could have heard the classified briefing that we got from General Kaine, but also from Secretary headseth and Marco Rupio Rubio was asked that question and he said, certainly within three years and hopefully less, because the president, only for whom he works, only has three more years. How long will it take to stabilize it? I don't know. It's not the current people in power that you have to convince. It's the military. There are 120,000 members of the Venezuelan military and right now they were on the side of Maduro For a lot of reasons. But we have got to convince them and the Venezuelan people have got to convince them that life is better if we have a, if not a democracy, at least a government of the people's choosing. And that's going to take a while.

[Sage]

It is, yeah.

[Senator Kennedy]

The Venezuelan. I mean, that's just the way it is in Venezuela. And if you look at history, you'll see that that's the way it is. Military's always played a big role, but I'm convinced. I don't know how long it'll take. A year, hopefully less. That if we have another election in Venezuela where everybody can run, they will embrace democracy. And if they use the talents and we can get a lot of the smart people who left Venezuela to come home, then they will be able to pay the military. The military won't have to go to work for some dictator.

[Sage]

It'll domino effect if you can get that ball rolling.

[Senator Kennedy]

But the mistake we made, for example, in other countries, people often talk about Iraq. You can't go. It's not realistic to go in and just get rid of the current government and start over. And Rubio, I listened to Rubio's testimony to us the other day very carefully. They're very mindful of that. They're very mindful of that.

[Sage]

Okay, good. And I've always trusted. It's just how I was raised. You trust the commander in chief, you trust the people that he has in place. And I do believe firmly that that is the desire. And then we have the right people to go in and try to convince them of what life could be like. I will say it was beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. Living in South Florida, watching the coverage from across the country, those who chose to cover the hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans.

[Senator Kennedy]

Oh, there's so many folks from Venezuela.

[Sage]

Came to America and we're crying tears of joy. That's why they left. That's why they're here. But of course, not everybody wanted to cover that side of it. Listen, you're more used to this than I am. I'm still newer in this space and it's insane. I'm like, no, but this is the truth. These are the facts, that there are actual human beings from Venezuela in America celebrating and thanking President Trump.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, you know, Maduro did send a lot of gang members to America and criminals. But a lot of the really smart, well educated people in Venezuela, once Maduro took charge and once he was not reelected, but he stayed in. They left, they left, they left. There were probably 10 to 15 million people. And these were the well educated folks that made the economy run. They were part of the intelligentsia. They didn't just come to America. They went to Colombia and other countries, but a lot of them came to Miami.

[Sage]

Yeah, yeah.

[Senator Kennedy]

And they want to go home. They're proud of their country, they want to go home, but they just were not going to live under Maduro. Maduro's a pirate. He has blood under his fingernails. I mean, he just does. And he's a criminal and he's gonna. The justice stick has hit him hard and it's not done yet. Karma. Karma may be slow, but it's always on time.

[Sage]

When you saw him taken off that plane, we finally got that visual of him with the light blue sweatshirt on and the hat, and his hand gave me chills. What did you think when you saw him?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, look, I don't hate anybody. I don't. When I say my prayers, one of the things I ask God is, don't let me hate. Because in my business, once you start doing it, A, it's immoral and B, it affects your judgment. And I don't hate anybody. But I do like some people better than others. And the last time, when I saw that clip of him in the handcuffs and the blindfold and the earphones, the last time I had seen him, he was dancing on television. And I know what he has done to so many of his people. The torture in those prisons is inhuman. I mean, burning people alive, suffocating them with plastic bags, torturing them with batteries. And that's what he did to all of his opponents. I don't feel sorry for him. I'm not going to say I hate him, but I don't feel sorry for them.

[Sage]

Not a fan.

[Senator Kennedy]

Not a fan.

[Sage]

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[Senator Kennedy]

I think they've been given a job. Legal immigration is legal?

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

Illegal immigration is illegal.

[Sage]

Isn't it that simple?

[Senator Kennedy]

That's a fact. Now, there are people in America who think that the border should be open. They're entitled to believe that this is America. I don't. I think most Americans believe in immigration laws. They look at the southern border like they look at the door of their home. Most Americans lock their front door at night. They don't lock their front door at night because they want. They hate everybody on the outside. They lock their front door at night because they love people on the inside and they want to know who's coming into and out of their home. And that's the way the American people are about the southern border. President Trump, and there's no question I've been to the border many times under President Biden. We'll never know how many people came in, but it's a minimum of 12 million. It could be as high as 20 million. And we do not know. We don't have the slightest idea who they are. Now, President Trump started by saying, we're going to find the criminals and deport them. But when you're in our country illegally and you're a criminal, those guys don't go stand on the street corner and say, hey, I'm a criminal. You know, you got to go find Them. And in finding them, ICE has found people who, while not having a criminal record, ran our country illegally. And they're enforcing the law.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

Now, many people think the President has gone too far. Some think he hasn't gone far enough. But those men and women of ICE are just doing their job, in my opinion. And, and you have people. Let me put it another way. My experience in life, this is not true of all cops, but the vast majority of cops will leave you alone unless you do illegal stuff.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

And the bad cops who like to arrest people, we've gotten pretty good at figuring out who they are and getting rid of. I don't live in La La land. I know there's some, Some, Some bad cops, but most of them aren't. And these ICE folks, I mean, I've watched what's going on. The, the. You can protest ice. Like, that's fine if you want to come out and protest. But. But the line has crossed into harassment. Blocking streets, burning Christmas trees, calling them names, getting right in their face and spitting on them, filming them. And it's a powder keg. These ICE guys and gals are already scared. Cause in many cases they're arresting gang members. So if you're in a powder keg and you're in a protester and you start giving off sparks, it's going to end badly. I wish what happened in Minnesota hadn't happened. I'm sorry it happened, but everybody needs to just step back a little bit.

[Sage]

I think the media has done a beautiful job of narrating it the way that they wanted it to be. The mainstream media, of course. And when you only tell the story of the grandma who's been here for 20 years and selling her handmade knit caps on the side of the road and just taking care of her, they make it sound like, that's all. And she is still illegal. Like, she might be sweet, but she has still broken the law. And you're going to have that. This is an imperfect system. When you have between 12 and 20 million people here illegally, it's like finding a needle in the haystack.

[Senator Kennedy]

Right?

[Sage]

Like, they are doing their absolute best. I don't think there's enough emphasis put. I mean, the administration does a very good job, but overall, on the number of really bad guys that are in this country and how necessary this is, I mean, when I have conversations, I try hard, Senator, with friends, I'm like, no, are you ignoring what has happened and how many illegals have come in and gang members, et cetera? Like, what has happened to our country from this.

[Senator Kennedy]

There were odds.

[Sage]

It's almost endless.

[Senator Kennedy]

The president is right on this. You had many. And it wasn't just in Latin America and Central America. It's all over the world.

[Sage]

Oh, yeah.

[Senator Kennedy]

You had a lot of countries just release their prisoners, say, go to America. They're letting everybody in. And I have seen it. I was there. The amount of people, it could easily be 20 million people, and that's very dangerous. And a lot of them were children. A lot of them were children. And under President Biden, they lost track of 300,000 of the children. We still don't know where they are. God knows where they are. You hope they aren't being sex trafficked, but, I mean, you just can't. It was a. It was an open, bleeding wound, the southern border. And I never did understand why President Biden just allowed it to happen. I think they just convinced him that open borders were racist.

[Sage]

Of course.

[Senator Kennedy]

And I don't think they're racist. I think they're prudent. I don't think it has anything to do with race, but obviously some people disagree with it.

[Sage]

I have a great visual in my head, thanks to you. I never heard or used that analogy of locking your door at night. And it really. It's perfect. And just because you want to protect what you have doesn't mean you hate others or are racist or sexist or whatever isms or ists they throw out at us. You know, again, this isn't perfect. This is an imperfect system.

[Senator Kennedy]

We admit more people legally to America than any other country in the world.

[Sage]

Anyone.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yes, we welcome people. I mean, try to get admitted to China. See what happens.

[Sage]

Yeah. Have fun.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah. Japan. I was just reading a piece on the plane about how there's uproar in Japan. They're a very homogeneous society and. And many of their folks are reluctant to let outsiders in. And America's never been like that. But you got to come in legally.

[Sage]

Yes. And I actually hope, you know, that there's further rules put in the system, like, in order to stay, don't do this. This.

[Senator Kennedy]

We need to totally rewrite this.

[Sage]

What would you do with that?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, what we really need. It's an academic exercise because we need to. We need. There are problems in legal immigration. It takes too long and it's too cumbersome, and there are too many agencies involved. But Franklin Sage, every time we sit down with my democratic friends and saying, let's rewrite the immigration laws, their first request is amnesty. You have to agree to blanket amnesty for everybody. Who is here. And the American people don't support that. And I can't vote for that. And if that is the opening offer and it's take it or leave it, it shuts down any chance of passing a bill.

[Sage]

It's maddening, frankly. It's frustrating being on the outside. It's maddening. Again, it's imperfect. I could not support this process anymore. Anymore. I'm absolutely behind it, and it's imperfect. As I've said, we all know that. What could I, and the administration leading it do better at this point?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, obviously you have to continue with your ICE members. You have to continuously train them. And they have been well trained, but they need more training. Homeland Security had to amp up the number of ICE officials to begin the deportation. That you just didn't have enough time. So more training is important. I think we need to have a frank discussion in America about what. Who do we want to come to America? It's not just the Nigerian doctor or the German engineer. How badly do farm laborers need manual labor? What about people in the seafood industry? I'm from Louisiana. We like crawfish and shrimp. We don't like to peel crawfish and shrimp. But there are a lot of people who will come in and accept minimum wage to do it. The hospitality industry. But we can't have that conversation right now in America between Democrats and Republicans and Independents because everything's all emotional about ice.

[Sage]

It's emotion. Yeah, you're right. The emotion versus the feelings versus the facts and. And the exact reasons why we need to do this.

[Senator Kennedy]

I don't know what happened in Minneapolis. When the press came to me after it happened, they showed me the video. I said, look, cowboy, I'm going to wait for the facts. Okay? I'm not going to rush to judge here. Within hours, Mayor Mamdani in New York declared the ICE agent a murderer. Others came out and said he did nothing wrong. I don't know. I wasn't there. There'll be a full investigation. I wish it hadn't happened. There's no question in my mind that. That. That Ms. Good and her partner were. Were trying to. I don't know if that word is harass, but they weren't being pleasant to the ICE people.

[Sage]

It's on video.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah. I mean, they were. They were calling them names and Big Boy and blocking the street. And some of the names were much worse than Big Boy. So let's wait for the facts. I'm sorry. It happened.

[Sage]

Can I ask you quickly about New York City?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

One of My favorite cities.

[Senator Kennedy]

I love New York.

[Sage]

I know, I know. And I'm sad right now. Sad, concerned. It's like we have this roller coaster ride in New York City and it gets cleaned up. Rudy Giuliani did a great job. And it comes back and then it goes like. It's exhausting. And now it's interesting. My husband and I were talking about once he won, because at first you're like, okay, some 33 year old kid, they'll never let that happen. And here we are. And something my husband said was, you know what? In order for these people to learn. Please, Mom. Donnie, go, go. Do you do all the things that you say that you're gonna do and then some and be a true socialist? Like do all the. Because is that the only way that the people who live there and elsewhere who are watching are going to realize, huh, this socialism thing, it's not a good thing for our city and for our country. Does that make sense? Like let them go hard, fast and then get them out sooner, otherwise the trickle effect, they're going to think, oh, this isn't that bad.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, look, it makes perfect sense. Sage. And this is the way I look at it. America is freedom. Freedom is risk. When you're free, you have the right to. To do dumb things. And in America, we. We've made mistakes before, particularly with respect to socialism and communism sometimes. And free with, with freedom, you know, you. You don't make the same mistake twice. You make it two or three times just to be sure, you know. And that's what New York has done. New York is the greatest city in the world. And I mean that. And I've been some other great cities and I know you have too. This will not work. Socialism is for morons. And Mr. Mamdani, it is his right as an American to be. He is a true blue, top of the hill, king of the heap socialists. And he will eventually ruin the housing market. That's the biggest problem in New York. No one can afford housing. He's going to try to have government control it. It'll be a disaster. It'll be a total goat rodeo. He won't eventually, once things start going sour on him, he won't get the support of the state legislature or the governor whose support he needs to do some of this. But you know, freedom is risk.

[Sage]

And the people have decided that's maybe the scarier thing to me because of course people like Mamdani are going to exist.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, he ran a smart campaign now.

[Sage]

He did.

[Senator Kennedy]

He never talked about socialism. He Talked about cost of living.

[Sage]

He did. And free daycare and government run grocery stores.

[Senator Kennedy]

And it's on people's minds right now.

[Sage]

It is. I get it.

[Senator Kennedy]

When moms and dads lie down to sleep at night. The average mom and dad in America lies down to sleep at night right now and can't, frankly. They're not thinking about Venezuela. They're thinking about cost of living. Food, health care costs, housing costs. We've got to address this cost of living. And Mondani ran on that. It was a very smart political move.

[Sage]

And then on his first day in office, what did he say? Or maybe it was even his acceptance speech once the votes were counted and he said, I am a proud socialist. Oh yeah, so use the S word after he won.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yes. This. The lady that he put in charge of housing, she is a full blown communist. She really is. She wants to see New York City and all the state to seize. I was reading also reading an article on the plane. They want to seize all housing in New York and heavily regulated. The problem is they haven't figured out how to pay for that. They can't just go take it. And much of the housing in New York because of the rent controls is dilapidated. Somebody's going to have to pay for. You don't want people to live in slums. It's very complicated.

[Sage]

It is. But to have her in charge and a white woman saying how white people are going to have to get uncomfortable and possibly lose their homes. And remember coming from Nashville, Tennessee where her mother owns a 1.6 million million dollar home. So you can't make this up.

[Senator Kennedy]

If it wasn't for double standards, there'd be no standards at all.

[Sage]

It's maddening. How the heck did it take you so long to lead the Democratic party?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, you know, it was really a Louisiana story in the mid. I switched parties mid 2005, 2006. Party politics were not that important in Louisiana. When I grew up in Louisiana, everybody was a conservative Democrat. And gradually the Republican Party became stronger and stronger and the Democratic Party moved to the left and the national Democratic Party started influencing the local Democratic Party. And I was always very fiscally conservative, which the Democrats even then were not. And I reached a point about 2006, I don't remember the year I was about to run for re election for state treasurer. And I said, you know, in my heart I'm not a Democrat anymore and I need to switch parties. The Democrats all at home hated me anyway because I wouldn't agree with them. And I said, you know, I'm going to go ahead and do it before the election, my reelection, because I didn't want to get reelected state treasurer and then switch parties. I wanted people to know so they got mad they could vote against me. So I did. And gradually the Democratic Party got worse and worse. I have many friends who are Democrat states who I like a lot. And a lot of them don't agree with the moon wing of their party. But the loon wing of their party is in control. The Mamdani Ocasio Cortez wing, they are clearly in control. And I don't think the Democrats will ever be successful as a party until they purge their whack jobs.

[Sage]

The Gavin Newsoms, the Jasmine Crocketts, the aoc, all the people that they are uplifting right now and platforming as the leaders of their party. But that would, wouldn't that take looking in the mirror and dropping egos to say, okay, maybe this isn't the right thing for our party?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, they're scared. I've got many Democratic colleagues in the Senate and I like, I know every single senator. I like them all. I know, I know I have Democratic colleagues in the Senate who know that the loon wing of the party is crazy and they don't agree with what they're doing. But they're humans. They're scared. They see who's in charge. Senator Schumer. You know, Senator Schumer has got the loon wing of the party hates him. He had to shut down government to try to get them to love him. And they still hate him. And you know, it's a, it's a. Now, the Democrats may say that about the Republicans and Lord knows Republicans aren't perfect, but the way I look at it, Republicans aren't perfect. But the Democrats are crazy right now and they will never. They may win some elections here and there, they may take the midterms, but they're not going to prosper as a party until they figure out who they are. And, and their leadership is way out of step with the average mom and dad in America.

[Sage]

Yeah. I really hope and pray for the average American that everybody can come to the middle a little bit more. It's healthy to have opposition. It's the way you do it.

[Senator Kennedy]

Competition makes us all better.

[Sage]

Yes. And it's so sad.

[Senator Kennedy]

You've seen that in sports.

[Sage]

Oh, my gosh, at every level. And then you have the Bill Mahers of the world who I, he helped me out when I was first going on my own and had me on. He's brilliant. And, you know, he's sensitive to being honest at times about things because what happens, all the loons come after him.

[Senator Kennedy]

He got in trouble for having dinner with Trump.

[Sage]

Exactly.

[Senator Kennedy]

They all got mad at him.

[Sage]

Yes. So. But he's a classic liberal. And even he, like I think most Democrats are able to say that's too much. I guess the question is how? And you said it. If people are willing to say, okay, we've gone too far, but this is where TDS comes in. This is where your absolute hatred of Donald Trump. What did you say at the beginning about if Donald Trump said if he.

[Senator Kennedy]

Came out in favor of breathing to live, they would, they'd hold their breath and it has gotten irrational.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah. And the truth is, I mean, I know President Trump pretty well. We have different styles. He has no filter. He exists loudly. I told him one time, I don't think he liked it, But I said, Mr. President, you seem to grow anxious when you have an unexpressed thought. And he said, what does that mean? I said, well, that means that you're the President of the United States and you shouldn't say everything you're thinking. That's the way he is not going to change. Not going to change because I made that suggestion. And indeed he didn't. Some people like it, some people hate it, but he. I've never seen. I saw the hatred toward Trump from day one in his first term with the Russian hoax, and the press bought into it.

[Sage]

I don't know if all of us fully comprehend how much damage that did.

[Senator Kennedy]

It really did. It damaged public institutions a lot.

[Sage]

Yeah. Can you give your thought or maybe a little more context as to why it wasn't just Hillary Clinton and her friends trying to ruin Donald Trump. Like, I mean, trust on every level is gone, I think because the American.

[Senator Kennedy]

People saw the national media and to some extent the local media take sides and they didn't like that. They want their. They want the news gatherers of the world to have an opinion, but be balanced, keep it to yourself. It doesn't affect your reporting, to be honest. And I was here at the time, the national media hated the fact that Secretary Clinton lost and President Trump won so much that they were going to torpedo him from day one. And all of the lies turned out to be lies. And the institution of media really hurt itself. Same way with COVID I never understood why we couldn't talk publicly about, are the lockdowns good or bad, or should I take the vaccine or not? Now, I took the vaccine, but I Didn't hate somebody who didn't.

[Sage]

Exactly.

[Senator Kennedy]

And I thought we. I was following what was going on in Sweden. We went too far in the lockdowns. But as you know better than I do, you couldn't even voice an opinion. That's not healthy in America. And a lot of that was driven by the media, I can tell you. A lot of that was driven by the media. And it hurt. It hurt the American people, but it hurt the institution of the media. That's why podcasts are. Look, 30% of the American people watch podcasts and it's going up and up and up because what, they get to know a person and they get to know whether they can trust a person, which is hard to do in two minutes. And it's hard to do when the bias is obvious.

[Sage]

Yeah, you can look at the Russian hoax, and again, it was exposed in 2025, but there's no accountability for that, really, for the people directly involved and responsible for it. Maybe at some point there will be. There's that. There's the COVID debacle, which I hope and pray the world, not just America, has learned now. And unfortunately, that means questioning everything and everyone and every directive that they give us, whether it's the CDC or you have another Fauci type character. So the trust was gone there. And also with Joe Biden and how so many people chose to ignore and lie about his cognitive decline in the media.

[Senator Kennedy]

And look, we all knew President. President Biden had a neurodege degenerative disease and it was getting worse. Now, his age kept him away from just about everybody, but it was obvious and the American people could see it. The American people may not read Aristotle every day, but they figure things out pretty quickly. Another example, the Hunter Biden laptop. Now, the Press covered the 50 national security experts who signed a letter saying, it's not real, it's Russian disinformation. You know, shame on them. They ought to hide their head in a bag. American people figured that that was very real. The FBI had had it for several months. They knew it was real. They didn't even say a word. All they had to do was say, no, it's real and we're looking at it. Yeah, but the American people lost a lot of confidence in the news industry.

[Sage]

And in the left, frankly, for those cover ups, especially over the last four years. I think I read that you had a. There was a moment in 2021 when you had a conversation with Joe Biden when it was pretty much confirmed to you that there were and it's heartbreaking from a human perspective. It's heartbreaking to watch.

[Senator Kennedy]

That was in his first year.

[Sage]

What were the details?

[Senator Kennedy]

I passed a bill that was bipartisan, and the White House, President Biden called me over, said, I want to do a bill signing. And I said, of course, you know, I'm coming. You're the President of the United States. And he signed the bill and in front of the cameras and all that. And his staff tried to get usher me out, but I wanted to talk to him. And so we just started talking. And his age got mad at me. But we talked for 30, 30, 40 minutes. And we talked about his dog. I like dogs. He likes dogs. We talked about Corvettes. We talked about the White House. He told me stories about Henry Kissinger, but she was my assessment. He was old. We're all going to get old. And we aged differently. We just do. He was an old. Whatever his age was. Then I noticed when he walked across the room, he wanted to show me his Cabinet room. It's not that far away. He moved very, very slow. At one point, I almost grabbed his arm, but then I caught myself because I didn't want to embarrass him.

[Sage]

Right.

[Senator Kennedy]

And he. I remember leaving. Nice man, very affable. Didn't really want to talk policy, just wanted to tell stories. And I went back and I told my staff, I said, president Biden, he's at that stage in life where he might. Can give him four or five hours a day, and then he just needs an early bedtime and some soup.

[Sage]

Goodness. And this is in 2021.

[Senator Kennedy]

This is his first year. And I remember thinking, I didn't say this, but he's going to have a hard time making it the full four years because he was just showing his age. And clearly he had a neurodegenerative disease that got worse and worse and worse and worse. And we saw it in that last debate, and the press covered for him. And his staff should have had the courage to sit him down and say, you can fire me, but you can no longer do this job. And you don't want to die in office. You need to go home, be with your family. But the press was a part of it.

[Sage]

Absolutely. The person. Okay, real quick. I had the opportunity to interview him.

[Senator Kennedy]

And did you?

[Sage]

Yes. And it was. I don't know, that April of 2021.

[Senator Kennedy]

I bet that was interesting.

[Sage]

It was fascinating. I was honored because he's a sitting president. You're done. Right? I'm gonna say yes to that opportunity. I was. It was On Spotify.

[Senator Kennedy]

He didn't do many interviews at all.

[Sage]

Did not. And I think it was intentional and set up. And it was the topic that I had to hit on, because if I could describe to you how detailed and specific the questions were that I was given and told, don't stray from this script. That's not what I usually do. And I was like, that's not how I roll. And they're like, yes, it is. Today it is. But I had 10 total minutes for the interview, and they wanted, of course, 16 different topics and you're not going to get there. But they wanted to talk about Major League Baseball and the All Star Game potentially being moved out of Atlanta because of the Georgia voting laws in the state of Georgia. Yes. So that is why he said yes to the interview. Well, beforehand there were some technical problems, and so we had to fill a little bit, but I couldn't see him on camera. They kept a black sheet over the front of the camera so I couldn't see him. I could only hear him.

[Senator Kennedy]

So you were not one on one?

[Sage]

Not until the interview was allowed to start. And so in the meantime, I'm having to fill time, like chit chat, and, hi, Mr. President. Like, what the heck do you say? And so we started to talk about sports. I heard him say, who am I talking to? What are we talking about? And I'm sitting there going, oh, goodness, Again, from a human perspective, not what my opinions or politics are. And he started to tell me a story about when he played football at Delaware and he was a receiver, and he started to just talk about. Frankly, it was pretty funny. And he said, oh, I was good. I had great hands. I was like, I'm gonna leave that alone.

[Senator Kennedy]

I'm gonna touch that one.

[Sage]

And then we continued on, and we were just chatting, and I asked him a question, and he started to answer, and he went, oh, never mind.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And it made my heart hurt. I have a grandmother who we lost from Alzheimer's. And so this is March, April of 2021. And so when I kept seeing these things without people speaking publicly about it, honestly, I knew what it was, too. And so from that day on, which is almost five years ago now, you know who I pointed the finger at? And not in a mean way, but his wife.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

Shameful, that Jill Biden. If anybody knew it, his wife knew it. And it's so. It's beyond his staff. To me, it's a personal, human decision when you allow someone to do that. And I don't know her. I'm sure. You know her?

[Senator Kennedy]

I really haven't met her or met her really. No, we had virtual no contact with him, but that's why he did so few interviews. But look, we're all going to get old.

[Sage]

I know, but, but we have to protect you.

[Senator Kennedy]

You have to be able to do, be vital enough, virile enough to be the President of the United States if you get elected.

[Sage]

How do you think Donald Trump does it?

[Senator Kennedy]

I've asked the President before. You know, when he calls me, it's usually one o' clock in the morning. You know, He tells, I've asked him, I said, look, you know, other than golf, you don't exercise, you eat anything that won't eat you first, you know, he said, good genes. He said, my dad was like this.

[Sage]

And no alcohol.

[Senator Kennedy]

No. Oh, that's right, no alcohol. He's never smoked, he doesn't drink. But he said my dad was like this and he said, I've been like it all my life, but it's not a made up story. He's really like that. He must drive Monia crazy roaming around the White House at 2:00 in the morning. I'm sure, but he will, he'll call you up and wake up you. And he always go, hey, you asleep? No, I'm always up at 2:00 in the morning, Mr. President.

[Sage]

Well, but you leave your ringer on then, don't you, Senator Kennedy?

[Senator Kennedy]

I do, I do for that reason. You know, it's habit from when my son was a teenager. Now he's a grown man now, but there are days when he was a teenager. I said, I really ought to turn it off. I don't want to hear it.

[Sage]

Exactly.

[Senator Kennedy]

You know the drill.

[Sage]

It's PTSD from the kids. Yeah, that never leaves us. Exactly, exactly. By the way, I love that we're in the nation's capital and you can tell by the sirens. I love the sounds. It's almost like warm and heartfelt sirens here in the nation's capital. Okay, this is a little bit random, but you mentioned Joe Biden talking about his dog and it reminded me of something I read from 05. I guess it was Hurricane Katrina. 2005.

[Senator Kennedy]

06.

[Sage]

05. Yeah. And what you did, I think this is special.

[Senator Kennedy]

I talked about it in my book.

[Sage]

Yes. Okay. Another reason to dig into this.

[Senator Kennedy]

We had a.

[Sage]

With fema.

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah, it was terrible. We had people. The whole city was flooded. FEMA came in. We're in New Orleans. We're in New Orleans. People are being, they're on the Roofs, we're getting them with helicopters and boats. And many of them had their pets. And they would be dropped off the central location where I was. And my job was to help people off the helicopter, get them on the bus. And many people had their dogs, some cats, but mostly dogs. And FEMA had this rule, said, you can't. You can't bring your pet. Well, that was like a rock, only dumber. I mean, people just wouldn't get on the bus. They said, I'm not, you know, I've lost my house, my car, my. My job. You're not taking my dog. And so I ended up. Some people trusted me, others didn't. But we. At one point, we had 25 or 30 dogs tied up. I didn't have the slightest idea, but I'd take people's name and number.

[Sage]

When you say we, when you brought.

[Senator Kennedy]

Them, I had one aide with me. We would collect the dogs. This was in New Orleans. And if people would get on the bus, I'd take their dog. We'd tie them up. There were state troopers around, and I'd say, if you give me your name and address, we will get your dog back to you. We're gonna take them first to a kennel a few miles away. Some people didn't believe me and they just wouldn't get on the bus. But others did, and I didn't know what. I was just making these promises. I didn't know how I was gonna solve this problem. But eventually I did a radio interview and some of the shelter folks heard me and they came out and helped me. But I have. I love dogs. You know, one of my favorite expression is, God is great, dogs are good and people are crazy. And I would never leave my two dogs to die or drown. And since then, FEMA's changed the rule. But that's a true story.

[Sage]

Those are the stories. I'm so glad you've written about this, because you all are the target quite often, because your politics, no matter which side you're on, and there's a human element, obviously to all of you, that was something you didn't have to do. That was. And I'm not trying to, you know, and I know you won't do that, but that was above and beyond in realizing that not only are these people, they've lost everything. Now you're asking them to make that kind of a decision. That's beautiful.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, in one respect, it showed how dumb government is. Because for FEMA to have a rule at that time that you have to evacuate and get On a bus, but leave your pets behind. Yeah, I mean, that's a special kind of stupid either. People and they weren't prepared to collect the animals, so we were doing it ad hoc. And now we've since changed the rules. But it's a good example of how sometimes government doesn't think.

[Sage]

What were people's reactions when their dog was delivered back to them?

[Senator Kennedy]

Oh, I didn't see them, but I promised them. And I checked on every single pet that I collected. They didn't blame me, but I guess they believe me. Now, our state, we did do a very good job on getting pets back to people, but we shouldn't have had to do it in the first place.

[Sage]

Right? But you did it. You did the right thing.

[Senator Kennedy]

We did it.

[Sage]

You have always been about everybody else in your life. I think that's one example. And I'm gonna put you on the spot and just ask you if there's a couple of things that you can share that, you know, you're most proud of for having done that maybe didn't get any attention or headlines, but that, you know, helped maybe just one person, maybe an entire city or community. There's just so many things that people like you do do that we don't hear about. And not all politicians are bad, you know.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, without getting too specific in public life, you know, to be in public life today, you've got to have. You've got to have a big heart, a lot of wind and a thick skin, and you've got to know the lines. You got to know the lines. Got to know who you are. I lost an election one time. First election I ever lost. I could have won it. I won't bore you with the details, but it would have involved. It would have required me to renounce the person who gave me my first job in government. And I'm not going to kid you, I was tempted. I thought about it a long time, and I know that's vague, but if I had renounced the person who brought me to the dance, I would have won the selection. And I just couldn't do it. I just said, I'm not expecting a pat on the back. I just sat there thinking. You know, I remember the passage in the Bible. I think it's Matthew or what is. A man profited if he wins the whole world, but loses his own soul. And I'm proud of that. I'm proud of some of the votes I've taken that got me in trouble back home. I tell my people in Louisiana that, look, I'm gonna always vote the way you would want me to vote, or the way you feel or the way you would want me to vote if you have the information that I have, but you don't. And sometimes people, you know, you know what social media's like. But I'm proud of some votes I've taken there. You know, I haven't always succeeded, but I've always tried to have some balance in my family. I've got a son that I love very much, and he's. I've always been in public life, and he. I try to always spend time with him because he had to put up with a lot just for being my son. Still does. And I'm proud. I of the fact that I have to work at it every day. But I refuse to hate. I just want. I do. When I say my prayers. One of the things I ask for, God, don't let me hate. Because you can. In this divided environment, when people can be so mean sometimes, when social media is just a cesspool of snark, it's very easy to hate. And I don't want to hate. And once I start hating, it'll be time for me to go home. It's just not worth it.

[Sage]

What about the people who hate you? How do you receive that?

[Senator Kennedy]

I try to. Well, obviously I try to ignore it sometimes. It's hard. But there are people. I make people mad. Some people like me, what I do. Some people hate it. And first I try to decide who I'm making mad. If I think I'm making the right people mad, I'm okay with that. And then I try to. I try to just ignore. It's hard. But people. Sometimes my friends will say, you know, how do you sleep at night knowing that a bunch of people out there in America hate you? I tell them with the fan on. I try not to think about it too much. You know, you just can't in this business. It's regretful. Well, you know what, it's like. You're a public figure. You just have to take the good with the bad. And I also keep coming back to the fact that this is America. You have a right to an opinion. Now, you don't have the right to hurt somebody because you disagree with their opinion, but you do have the right to an opinion. I mean, one of the coolest, snarky hits I ever got on social media one time, somebody. I don't. Generally, I try not to read it, but one of my staffers brought me this. They said, kennedy, I disagree with what you just said on tv, plus, you look exactly like my second wife. I said that. Now that is a great. Now that is. I almost called him, but I didn't. I said, now that is a good insult.

[Sage]

That's something that's usually coming from you like that. That's a good one liner.

[Senator Kennedy]

I like my second wife.

[Sage]

That's awesome. How has your faith led you through these times when you're trying not to hate and throughout this really beautiful journey?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, I believe in God. I'm a Methodist, actually. I was raised Presbyterian. My mom and dad founded two Presbyterian churches. When Becky and I got married, I was a Presbyterian, she was a Methodist. We compromised and I became a Methodist. You know how that works?

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

I mean, I'm a Christian. I believe in God, I believe in Christ. I doubt. You know, also, one of the things I pray for is faith. You know, I pray for wisdom, I pray for courage, I pray for love. It's the greatest gift God gave us. But most of all, I pray for faith. One of the. I was a philosophy major in part in college. I read a lot of Kierkegaard. Kierkegaard was a. Soren. Kierkegaard was a Christian existentialist. Most existentialists like Camus and Jean Paul Sartre or not Christians, but he was a Christian existentialist. And he talked about the difficulty of faith and making a leap of faith. You have no proof of God. Well, you have proof of God, but you have no certainty of God. And when bad things happen to good people, as they do every nanosecond in this world, it makes you doubt the existence of God. All you have is faith. That's all you have. And it is hard and I'm not ashamed to pray for it. Most people who know themselves well, regardless of what religion they are, they understand. They have doubts and I have doubts. But you just work at it every day.

[Sage]

Do you realize how much joy you bring to so many people with your sense of humor?

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, I bring a lot of anger to people, too.

[Sage]

We like that too. I'm just saying, I just.

[Senator Kennedy]

Look, I decided early, early on in this business and was reinforced when I came here to Washington. You know, life short by the shoes, you know, I'm just gonna be myself. And I'm trying not to be too mean spirited and I really try not to hate. And I like policy. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

[Sage]

Do you go online? Every once in a while, though. I hope your staff brings it to you. The YouTube clips and montages of all your beautiful one liners.

[Senator Kennedy]

Generally, I see it from my wife. When I get home, Becky will say, have you seen this on YouTube? And I'll say, well, I don't know if I want to see this on YouTube.

[Sage]

Do you practice these lines? I know everybody asks you that, like, how do you come up with such brilliant, funny analogies?

[Senator Kennedy]

Here's what I do. God blessed me with a really good memory, and I really admire good writing and the way other people write. And I read a lot, and when I read a clever phrase, I'll remember it. Sometimes I'll jot it down, but I've just been blessed with a good memory. A lot of the people also. I was raised in a small town where everybody uses euphemisms and anecdotal comments, but 5 minutes before I do an interview, my staff knows to leave me alone. I kind of think what I want to talk about and how am I going to frame it? Because it's usually not a podcast. Usually. You got five minutes. You better bang, bang, bang, make your points. And sometimes I'll frame it, but a lot of it is just instantaneous and it. I try not to offend some people.

[Sage]

But sometimes it's fun to offend, isn't it?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yeah, but I try. Not the only time. My wife. I don't know if I ought to do this, but my wife. We were talking about transgender sports, and I was being interviewed, and I said, I am not going to vote to require the mother and father of a junior high school girl to have to go into a junior high school locker room and look at the penis of a junior high school boy. And of course, this was several years ago. When I got home, Becky said, you don't want to be saying penis on television. I said, well, it could have been worse. I could have said something else, absolutely. But. But she said, well, you don't have to be so graphic. And I said, but, you know, that's the point. That's what many of the activists are asking that we. I mean, I remember what it was like when I was in junior high school, how self conscious you are. And it's worse for girls, and especially worse today. And we're going to tell junior high school girls that they've got to change clothes in front of a junior high school boy in the interest of inclusion. That's not inclusion, that's stupidity. And if you have to be raw.

[Sage]

With these people and use those words to get it through their thick skulls that this shouldn't even be a conversation.

[Senator Kennedy]

Then good and In a committee. I'll end on this note. In a committee. One time we were having a hearing on banning books and I started reading from one of the books that they wanted to ban. This was porn. And the chairman of the committee, who's a friend of mine, he's a Democrat, said, kennedy, you want to really want to do this, this is going to be permanently in the Congressional Record. And I said, that's the point. You want our kids to read this stuff, but we can't read it in the United States Senate. And I read it and all fresh hell broke loose. And I was criticized, but I said, this is the book. And people couldn't believe it.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

This wasn't some book about Adam and Eve. I mean, this was raw, gross, graphic stuff. And, you know, it is what it is.

[Sage]

I'll end on this because I saw this quote and I wow, I needed to hear it. Weakness invites the wolves.

[Senator Kennedy]

It does. Wish it wasn't the case.

[Sage]

Where does that come from?

[Senator Kennedy]

I read it somewhere, probably, or I made it up, I don't know. But I've lived that experience.

[Sage]

You have.

[Senator Kennedy]

And I don't know why it is sage, but there are people in this world. Some of them run countries. They're not sick. They're not mixed up. They're not confused. It's not that their mama or daddy didn't love them enough. They just have a lot of objective evil in them. And some of them run countries and they hate America. They're jealous, but they hate America. They want to kill us and drink our blood out of a boot. And they don't understand reason. They understand strength. And the stronger we are, the safer we are. Not because we would win in a war, but because we would avoid a war. And that's our answer to a lot of the other countries that hate America. We have to say we're peace loving, but fool around and find out.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

And that's what weakness invites the wolves means to me. You can't. You will never be there. But some guys can identify this. You can't stop and quote Socrates in the middle of a bar fight. It's a bar fight. Okay.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Senator Kennedy]

Whether who started it, whether you should have been in it or not. You're in a bar fight, you don't stop and quote Socrates.

[Sage]

We are so fortunate to have you.

[Senator Kennedy]

Oh, this was fun.

[Sage]

I'm beyond grateful. And you are doing God's work and making us laugh along the way. This is amazing. How to test negative for stupid.

[Senator Kennedy]

Thank you.

[Sage]

Again. What you've given us continuously is a blessing.

[Senator Kennedy]

God bless you.

[Sage]

And listen, I know you don't do this a lot, so thank you. Thank you for your time and for always being so generous.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, you're the best. You got a great future. You're already a success. Sky's limits.

[Sage]

This means the world to me.

[Senator Kennedy]

Just keep calling it like you see it, young lady.

[Sage]

Yes, sir. It's too late now. Once you're canceled.

[Senator Kennedy]

That's right. That's right.

[Sage]

Thank you.

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