Stephen A. Smith & Sage Steele: The Truth About Being Black and Conservative in Media

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sage Steele Show – Stephen A. Smith & Sage Steele: The Truth About Being Black and Conservative in Media

Date: April 1, 2026
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Stephen A. Smith

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Overview

This episode features an intimate, candid conversation between Sage Steele and sports commentator Stephen A. Smith. The pair dive deep into the unique challenges of being Black and conservative in American media, navigating identity, authenticity, criticism, and the responsibilities that come with their respective platforms. They reflect on their personal journeys, professional setbacks and triumphs, family relationships, and their evolving outlooks on race, politics, and gender issues in today’s America. Infused with humor and vulnerability, the discussion pulls back the curtain on two prominent figures often caught between cultural and political cross-currents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reunion, History & Friendship

• Both reflect on their longstanding relationship (02:09) and mutual respect from years at ESPN.
• Sage expresses gratitude for Stephen A. making time amidst his busy schedule, highlighting the importance of maintaining real friendships in media (02:43, 03:17).
• Quote:

  "I don't say no to the people that I love. I don't say no to the people that I care about, to people that have been good to me." —Stephen A. Smith [03:17]

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2. Transition to Independence

• Sage discusses leaving ESPN (04:16), her initial reluctance to enter the independent media landscape, and how Stephen A. encouraged her to embrace her unique voice (04:40).
• Stephen A. highlights the importance of having an independent, well-informed viewpoint (05:01).

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3. Diversity of Thought & Political Identity

• Both recount the difficulties of maintaining "diversity of thought" in both Black and media spaces (05:33, 06:11).
• Stephen A. explains his open-mindedness and discomfort with the castigation of Black conservatives (09:43, 11:25).
• Sage notes that the harshest criticism she's faced comes from her own community for political reasons (12:48).
• Quote:

  "I've always been very, very sensitive...to black conservatives...because I don't believe it's fair to be castigated because you have a political tilt that differs from the vast majority of African Americans." —Stephen A. Smith [09:43]

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4. Hypocrisy & Social Pressures within the Black Community

• Both lament the hypocrisy and internal judgment aimed at Black conservatives (12:13, 12:50).
• Sage opens up about facing slurs and labels ("coon," etc.) due to her views and family [15:05].
• Stephen A. frames these struggles in the context of generational emotional burden and the psychological scars carried by Black Americans (15:30).

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5. Professional Setbacks and Growth

• Stephen A. shares the story of his departure from ESPN in 2009, taking personal responsibility for his arrogance and lack of teamwork, and credits family and leadership for helping him evolve (36:48–41:39).
• Both reflect on moments of vulnerability, how setbacks led to greater humility, and how these changes informed both personal and professional lives (41:39–44:54).

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6. Navigating Criticism and Cancel Culture

• Delving into the double standard of criticism and cancel culture in sports/media, especially pertaining to political views (27:50, 30:16).
• Stephen A. distinguishes between caring about criticism versus the institutional response (29:05).
• Both discuss the loneliness and attacks that black conservatives face and the emotional toll of being outspoken (30:16).

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7. Family, Fatherhood, and Vulnerability

• A deeply personal section on Stephen A.’s role as a father (55:13–73:29), his protectiveness of his daughters, and generational values.
• Sharing stories about his daughters’ personalities and challenges balancing being a public father with raising independent children.
• Both discuss gender roles, the importance of men leading in the home, and societal changes (78:14–84:18).
• Quote:

  "I have no sympathy, no compassion, no patience for a man who doesn't want to be a man when it comes to his child." —Stephen A. Smith [78:14]

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8. Masculinity, Gender Roles & Modern Movements

• Discussion about the perceived "emasculation" of men in modern discourse and the impact of progressive narratives (83:27).
• Both assert the value of traditional masculine roles while acknowledging women’s independence (84:18–88:08).
• Sage urges women to "raise the bar" and allow men to be men, while Stephen A. cautions against prescribing one narrative for all (88:13–91:24).

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9. Freedom to Speak & Platform Evolution

• Stephen A’s transition to being more outspoken since owning his own platforms, and the pressure to stick to sports at ESPN (31:28, 32:29).
• The theme of finding and embracing one’s voice amid institutional pressures (33:29).

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10. Race, Opportunity, and Systemic Realities

• Repeated discussion of how success for Black Americans often hinges on precedents set by others (140:15–142:01).
• Stephen A. speaks openly about the realities of race and upward mobility in his career, including contracts and pay equity (142:51).
• Sage questions if it’s necessary to "make it about race," sparking nuanced debate about the persistence of systemic disadvantage (142:46–143:52).

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11. Politics, Voting, and Community Loyalty

• Honest assessment of the internal pull many Black Americans feel to vote Democrat out of history and community loyalty (123:56–128:20, 130:08–132:33).
• They examine the tension between policy preferences and cultural/family expectations.
• Both challenge the idea of voting (or not) based on race, recounting the iconic moment of Obama's election and what representation means versus actual progress (130:21–134:13).

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12. Cultural Flashpoints: Women’s Sports and Transgender Debates

• They discuss the politicization of women’s sports and transgender inclusion, lamenting that the debate is not grounded in science or fairness (97:42–98:36).
• Both disapprove of sports policies that they feel disregard women’s interests for political gain (98:49–103:02).
• Frustration at the silence of powerful men in sports and the broader industry (103:57–106:28).

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13. The Importance of Real Friendship & Humanity

• The conversation closes with heartfelt stories of mutual support through personal tragedy—including Stephen A.’s gratitude for Sage’s presence and comfort after his mother’s passing (150:32–154:34).

• A shared philosophy: disagreement doesn’t preclude true friendship or respect, and the industry’s most meaningful connections are those that are authentic and human (157:19–159:02).

• Quote:

  "What matters is the human moments...we can coexist and support each other in their tough moments and their crazy moments." —Sage Steele [157:26]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Stephen A. Smith on Accountability:

  "I go home every day thinking about what I could have done better." [41:39]

• Sage Steele on Hypocrisy in Diversity:

  "If we believe in diversity, it isn't just who we sleep with. It's literally diversity of thought. That's where it has to begin and end." [12:13]

• Stephen A. on Fatherhood:

  "As hard as I work, you gonna tolerate a lazy dude? Oh, no...I got to know that you mission minded." [56:25]

• On Race & Presidential Voting:

  "We never had a Black president before. White men had a mess up all these decades...Let's see what a Black man does in that position." [130:30]

• Sage on Friendship Amid Disagreement:

  "We might not always agree...but that's the beautiful part, is that that doesn't matter. What matters is the human moments." [157:26]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Early banter, ESPN memories, friendship themes: 00:00–06:38
• Black conservatism, diversity of thought: 06:39–13:42
• Criticism, personal attacks, judgment: 13:43–22:06
• Professional setbacks, self-reflection: 36:48–44:54
• Family, fatherhood, vulnerability: 55:13–73:29
• Masculinity, gender roles, societal shifts: 78:14–88:08
• Platform independence & speaking freely: 31:28–33:29
• Women’s sports, trans inclusion debate: 97:42–107:21
• Race, opportunity, systemic realities: 140:15–143:52
• Politics, voting, community loyalty: 123:56–134:13
• Mutual support during tragedy (Stephen A.’s mother's passing): 150:32–154:34
• Concluding thoughts on friendship, loyalty: 157:19–164:54

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Conclusion

This episode provides a raw, empathetic look at issues of race, conservatism, identity, and career in the shifting landscape of American media and politics. With deep personal reflection and moments of laughter, Sage Steele and Stephen A. Smith model friendship, resilience, and the value of principled individuality—no matter the pressures on or off camera.

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Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

I said, you know, I'm not as focused. Cause I'm getting ready to go see Sage D. Shut up. I gotta make sure I'm ready.

[Sage Steele]

There is no ESPN without Stephen A. Smith.

[Stephen A. Smith]

If I was alone with y' all off camera, I might slap both of y'. All. Yes. Why are we here? Let me tell you why. Daddy ain't gonna have any idea what you're doing. I'm Stephen A. Shut up.

[Sage Steele]

This is weeks off for you to

[Stephen A. Smith]

be like, well, Sage is on camera calling me weak. So they got. This is very bad. They got no socialism to me. Ain't no commun. I'm a proud capitalist.

[Sage Steele]

Inexcusable that it's even a topic. Is men and women's sports not an issue for me. Most lesbians and gays do not. They want that separation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm leaning on you because I didn't research that. I'm not denying it. Let me ask yourself this question. If you are a black person out there listening to Sage Steele bring up an issue about character and you support Trump, how do you think people are supposed to feel? It wasn't John Skipper. It was me. It didn't just change me as a professional. It changed me as a man. But I go home every day thinking about what I could have done better. My mother dies, and we buried her. And I went back to work the next day. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson was there. The late Reverend Jesse Jackson, God rest his soul, was there. And Sage Deal.

[Sage Steele]

And I hate you for making me cry in my own house.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not my fault. I didn't do it.

[Sage Steele]

The fact that Stephen A. Smith is sitting in my house in Florida, where you live now. What has happened to us?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We woke up.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what the hell happened to us.

[Sage Steele]

It took a minute, but we.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Good to see you, girl. How you doing?

[Sage Steele]

I'm gonna admit to our viewers that when Stephen A. And his family pulled up a few minutes ago downstairs, you got out of the car and I got all choked up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

What's wrong with me?

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's been a long time.

[Sage Steele]

It has been. It's been a long time, right? At three this summer will be three years since I saw you in person. Now I see you way too much on my TV screen and on my phone, but in person. It's been three years.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, it's been a long time. But, you know, you and I go back a long ways. I miss you. You did a great, great job when you worked at espn. I've known you for years. Consummate professional Real pro. Know what you're doing. And we've always been good. Always. So when you told me to drive down here to see you, I like, okay, Sage, I'll drive down for you, Sage. And I am here.

[Sage Steele]

I'm like, I know people who you love for. I mean, much more than your job or anything else that I could have called to influence and say. Really? Really, Jeffrey? Like, please tell Stephen A. To eventually say yes. No, it means a lot. Because you are. You are. You've always been busy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I feel like it's another level right now. You're a glutton for punishment because you don't say no. I mean, I'm sure you do. I'm sure there's a lot of opportunities that you get.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't say no to the people that I love. I don't say no to the people that I care about, to people that have been good to me. And I don't qualify that. Oh, my goodness, somebody disagreed with me or whatever. So please. That ain't got nothing to do with our relationship. You know, I'm not perfect, and I know that. But, you know, when you have a good relationship with somebody throughout the years, I'm very protective of that. And I like to do little things to let them know, yeah, it's me.

[Sage Steele]

I'm still here.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I care. I'm that dude. You know, I'm the same dude that you've always known. Nothing has changed. So that. That's, you know. So when you called me and wanted me to come on the show, how could I say no?

[Sage Steele]

No, it means a lot. It means a lot. Because I think you probably don't know this, but, I mean, when I left espn, it's been two and a half years, which I cannot believe. So obviously that's why I haven't seen you in three years. I was like, I want no part of this, of this independent media world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

Because it was scary to me. I'm like, I'm a good employee. I am good at saying yes. I love the team aspect and I loved working for Disney for almost 17 years. Literally zero regrets. So grateful for every moment, even the tough stuff, everyone. But for 30 years, I'm like, I work for people and with people, this alone thing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But remember, there was somebody that told you about the independent voice that you had. There was somebody that told you, you'll be surprised how much you're going to enjoy it. There's somebody that sat that stood in a hotel lobby in India, if I

[Sage Steele]

remember correctly, by the way. He's like an elephant. He literally never forgets anything. And it's scary.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was telling you that. And, you know, obviously you've always had your opinions. You've always been strong with your opinions and your beliefs, but they come from an edified place. You research, you know, what the hell you talking about. You have your information, you're informed, and you feel the way that you feel. And you know, all you've ever wanted, and I've told this to many people about you, all you've ever wanted was to be respected for what you feel and what you believe, just like anybody else would. And I never saw any problem with that. So I was like, she's always been cool with me. You know, I don't know about y', all, you know, but we good. We good. Well.

[Sage Steele]

But I do think you're very unique in this world where you make a point to do what you just said, to not judge someone based on their opinion right from day one. It's funny, I found some notes the other day from a speech I gave at my alma mater in 2009 at Indiana University. And I put Diversity of Thought, but Mean it. That was the title. That's before, like, diversity was really a massive topic. Really. Like, it is every single day now. And I've always felt that and just thought, well, if you're. If you're nice and respectful to people, they will respect you back even if they disagree.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

That's not the case.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not at all.

[Sage Steele]

Like, and now it's times 100.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, it was always a struggle for you because you have a problem telling somebody to kiss your ass. I've never had that problem. It doesn't matter. Getting better, it doesn't bother me. Nothing bothered me at all. That's number one. Number two, I think that, you know, being just. Just being in this political realm and all of that stuff to kind of things that I'm doing now, if you remember, I have a dear friend of mine that says hello to you, Mr. Jeff.

[Sage Steele]

Hi, Jeffrey.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Jeff loves you to death. And he's one of my best friends in the world. We went to high school together. We go back nearly 40 years. Over 40 years. And he was like, hey, you know, he was a die hard conservative. And one day I'm driving and I put y' all on three way. And I said, you know what? No, I'm not y'. All. I'm not as hardcore as y', all, but I do respect y' all and I hear where you're coming from. And I introduced you to him.

[Sage Steele]

You did.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And it was like. It was like the first time, it was like you exhaled because it was like, oh, my goodness. You know what I'm saying? He really isn't judging me. You know what I mean? It doesn't bother me because I'm like, well, at that time, at least you might be right. I know he's right. A lot of times I'm making a point and I'm like, this, damn, he got me there. That's a good damn point.

[Sage Steele]

I understand that you respected him, so you listened to him. I mean, your childhood friends from New York.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure, sure. And because of that, it was like I just saw all of that and I wanted to connect folks on that side of the aisle in that world to let them know there are people that may not be on that side of the aisle, but still respect you, still hear where you coming from, still recognize the fact that, damn it, when you're right, you're right. You know? And by the way, ain't judging you and your personality and your character and all of that stuff because they might disagree with something.

[Sage Steele]

All the things we preach against on the left in particular.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Sage Steele]

But then the judging came in the other reason. I mean, there's many reasons why that phone call meant a lot. He looks like us. And back then, this is 2012, we're being taught that there's no such thing as a black conservative. And if they are, well, they're a sellout and they don't know what they're talking about. And so to meet him over the phone, not in person yet. That can happen someday.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I hope it will.

[Sage Steele]

It was like, almost validate. Not that I. I guess I needed it, some validation there, besides someone in my family that agrees. And by the way, most of my family disagrees with me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And that's fine. I don't care. We're family. But that's what Jeffrey was. And do you also remember the context of that conversation?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Remind me.

[Sage Steele]

It was election day, 2012.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And you were driving Obama and Rom.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Obama and Romney. Yes.

[Sage Steele]

You were driving from Bristol back home to vote. And the reason why you connected us

[Stephen A. Smith]

on the phone was because I had questions. I had questions. I mean, I wasn't happy about everything that I was saying. And I was. Like, I said, I'm about to vote conservative. I'm about to vote conservative. Now, I didn't do it, but I was close. I was on edge. I was on the edge because I was very displeased with some of the things that I was seeing in Obama's first term. So talking to him about it. And when it came to you with him, it was politics. With you, it was a little bit more personal because obviously you're unapologetic and very open about.

[Sage Steele]

I was not then.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I understand.

[Sage Steele]

At all.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You weren't open with a lot of people, but you were open about your reticence to be open with a lot of people.

[Sage Steele]

Really?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, you were. You were like, you know, how am I being judged? And I was like, nah, sage, you know, I'm good. You know, if I disagree with you, I'll tell you and I'll tell you why. But you don't have anything to worry about in terms of our friendship with one another, because I'm not judging you based on that. You got a right to feel what you feel based on what you see. And I've always wanted, you know, for me personally, I've always had. Even though I would never qualify or classify myself as a quote, unquote, conservative, although I have conservative views, especially fiscally, make no mistake about apologizing for that to anybody. I've always been very, very sensitive, and I think people are noticing that now more than ever. I've been very sensitive to black conservatives, and the reason why is because I don't believe it's fair to be castigated. Because you have a political tilt that differs from the vast majority of African Americans. If that's what you feel, ask what you feel. Argue with folks on their merits, right? Don't sit up there and say, oh, you don't believe what we believe, so you'll sell out, you're cool, you ain't worth a damn. And all of this, that pisses me off. I don't like that. And I didn't like when I saw that happening to my boy. I didn't like that when I saw it happening to people like yourself or any black conservative. So it's always been a mission of mine when it comes to black conservatives to let them know, I may not agree with you, but it doesn't mean I won't if the facts tell me otherwise. And I'm certainly not gonna hold it against you and as an individual and your character as a black conservative, just because you might differ from me, I'm not. You don't have to worry about that with me. And I've always been that kind of guy throughout my life covering the NBA. There's plenty of black dudes that I know that are conservatives. They may not admit it publicly.

[Sage Steele]

They're in the Clock, but it's a

[Stephen A. Smith]

whole bunch of them, you know, and when we're talking about certain things, collective bargaining negotiations, contracts with players and stuff like that, you know, morals clause, it could be anything. You just hearing some of these guys views and you're like, that's not, that's not the typical stuff that you hear. But I always let them know, okay, that's your perspective. Here's why I agree or disagree. But I never ever, ever judged them and their character as a human being because of that. So it's always been important to me to let everybody know. I'm very open minded in that regard. And I've always been that way.

[Sage Steele]

You, I can attest you absolutely always have. That's why I was comfortable having those conversations with you. Hotel room lobbies or in the hallways of ESPN before you run back to New York after first take.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Sage Steele]

I think there's just what I will never excuse, understand, rationalize, no matter what is what I believe is the hypocrisy though, in the black community on this topic in particular. And if we believe in diversity, it isn't just this, it isn't just who we sleep with. It's literally diversity of thought. That's where it has to begin and end. And so, I mean, I'll be honest, the most hatred, and you've probably heard me say this I have received for my views, is by far from people who look like us.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

The hypocrisy in that is laughable and I think inexcusable. When we know what it's like to be discriminated against for just because of how God made us, much less our opinions. And I always say this too, our opinions are based on our experiences. So to silence someone for their opinion, you don't know their why. Just disagree. But respect. But when you get it from every corner and every angle and you are Teflon and you're used to it, it doesn't mean you're not human though. And I can handle a hell of a lot more than I could back in the day. Oh my gosh, bring it. I don't anymore. Finally. Maybe it's 50. Maybe it's being over 50 too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's being over 50, it's being happy. It's living in a spot like this. I mean, you're living well, Sage. I mean, that has a lot to do. It has a lot to do with the fact that, you know what, it doesn't phase you. I mean, when you're living this well, I mean, that has A lot to do with it.

[Sage Steele]

Sage, listen, this is goals here. I'm in the slum compared to this one, but I'll take my little slum here right now.

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[Sage Steele]

when I get coon with the raccoon gift coming my way, when I get stuff I will not dignify by repeating the words for my white husband, for my kids who don't look like me, for my views, for your father must be so he must hate you for the way that you believe. Okay, I don't know any what other community does this to their own based just on how they believe?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me answer that with several layers. Number one, I don't know of another community that does it. Number two, you're absolutely right that it comes across as very, very hypocritical on the part of our community to do that to one another. But there's a heightened level of sensitivity that I believe people like myself should have. I don't a black conservative that absorbs that in such a way that makes them hostile towards the hypocrisy. I get it because you're a target of that hypocrisy and you have been throughout your life. I have not. And so what happens is, is that a lot of times, even though I'm frustrated and disgusted by how we may be as a community towards one another, when we disagree as opposed to being open minded, hearing what the other side feels, understanding why, and also understanding what you don't know. Like, if you don't know, you have no business condemning somebody that knows more than you. If you're coming from a more edified place and you're more knowledgeable about politics, about policy, et cetera, and your position is based on those things, Somebody that's ignorant to that stuff ain't got no business judging you. No business judging you. But we also have to take into account as black people, what we as a people have endured. And I'm not going the racism route, the prejudice, Jim Crow and slavery. I'm not going that deep. What I'm simply saying is that in the end, because of the trials and tribulations that we've experienced as a community, there is an emotionally challenging, dare I say a depressed state that we deal with as a community collectively. In terms of the constant uphill battle, the constant uphill climb, some of us are more conditioned and positioned to deal with it better than others. I mean, for me personally, I consider myself a warrior. You give me a challenge, let's get it on. Let's go. You're not breaking me, but that's me. There's some other people that are easier broken. You know, we pay attention to mental health and the trials and tribulations that come with that. The challenges that come with that. Well, if you're. If you're depressed as an individual, if you're depressed as a community because of the challenges, if this constant uphill climb forces you to succumb to challenges that other people don't have to worry about succumbing to because they don't face it, then it requires a heightened level of sensitivity. When somebody like me comes in and it's very convoluted and it's very confusing. I see both sides on one hand, I look at that side of the fence and I'm like, I understand. I get it. And I was blessed and fortunate enough to have the greatest mama in the world, the greatest four sister over the sisters, 15 nieces and nephews, and great friends. And you know all this. So I was blessed, right? So I had the intestinal fortitude, based on my positioning in life, to overcome those things. But on the other hand, I'm also sensitive to the fact that I've got a few friends that are black and are conservative, that didn't deserve the vitriol that was aimed in their direction.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And so I, sage might say something and I might completely disagree with. I Mean, like, come on, you're being hard on us as a people, right? But I'm also saying to myself, I understand why she hard, because if you've been calling her out of her name and been disrespecting her and denigrating her for years and not taking into account what she's had to go through and what her challenges has been, et cetera, et cetera, then I understand where she's coming from. And so as a woman, it can't

[Sage Steele]

be a one way street. That's the thing. It cannot be a one way street. And that's what I have seen here.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But in life, white, black, and everything in between, everybody goes down a one way street at some point.

[Sage Steele]

True.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Everybody's about what their belief is, everybody's about what their path has been. It's not a monolithic issue with just the black community, whites, Hispanics, Latinos, everybody, everybody, Jewish community, et cetera, et cetera. People go through stuff. And that's why it's really, really important not to castigate any community and judge each person on their own individuality. And that's what you need to do.

[Sage Steele]

That's all I'm saying. And so when it doesn't happen that way, you know, I do feel like we all are here for a reason with these platforms for a reason, and whatever we can do to help and encourage others to be true to themselves, whatever that looks like. And I do feel now that that's one of the reasons why I'm still around is because it took some time to grow. I guess I don't want to use the word courage, it sounds a little bit dramatic, but you know, to say, okay, fine, if you don't like me for that, that's on you, because I'm actually a nice person and a good teammate. But if you're gonna judge me on that, then fine, I don't need you in my life, that's fine. But to tell someone they can only be outspoken if they believe like this because of this, no. And I will. And I know most normal people believe

[Stephen A. Smith]

that you have, but you have a level of freedom. Freedom.

[Sage Steele]

Now I do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But what I mean by freedom is that you've always been educated, you've always been knowledgeable in our business. Like, you know, first words out of my mouth when people talked about you, I said, you do understand that she worked there 16 years, right? You do understand this. She had this job, this job, that job. She, she kind of know what the hell she's talking about. This is not an ignorant person. This is a. This is a consummate professional that's been around a long time. You want to get to the personal, we can get to the personal later about Sage Steel, y'. All.

[Sage Steele]

Most of them who don't know me, but go ahead.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But professionally, you don't get in this business. Podcasting, YouTube shows, radio shows, television shows. You do understand that most of y' all ain't better than her, right? You don't understand. You can't do what she has done because she's done it. You know? But in the same breath, I would also sit up there and look at a Sage deal and say, you know, I look at you. I remember one time I was in a hotel with you. I was like this. Why? Why Sage? And you were like, steven. And I said, sage, it's you. You understand. Everybody ain't you? And you've accomplished a lot in this business. You don't have to. Of course they're going to react towards that way. Did it ever occur to you that they're just using this as an excuse because they couldn't do what you did when they had the opportunity to do it?

[Sage Steele]

It took me a minute to realize that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Sage Steele]

And when you. Oh, my gosh, he would. You guys, he would do this. He would be like, why? Stop it. Stop it. I'm like, but, but, but.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I was like, I didn't know.

[Sage Steele]

Do you know, one time it pissed me off, though. We were. It was when I first started to get in trouble. I have, like the before and after, right? The bc.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Exactly.

[Sage Steele]

I know I was in a commercial break on the 6pm Sports Center. And frankly, it was right after I learned and an article came out that Al Duncan and Michael Eves had said what they had said about keeping me off of the race and sports special that had the, you know, great diversity of ESPN personalities, black people, ESPN personalities. And it was during the Summer of Love. That's what I call it. After George, Floyd and Covid in 2020. And they said, I'm not coming on this show if she's on it because she's not respected by the real black community. And, yeah, that hit. That hit hard. And for them to then take it to bosses who then acknowledged it and then didn't invite me. As at that time in 2020, I was the highest paid female doing SportsCenter. I was the longest tenured black female for sure, and an overall pretty good employee and representing the company at the upfronts, all the things. And that was a turning point for me when it was like, wait, they're going to not include you? When we want diversity of opinions for this difficult time in our country, but only the opinions of black people at espn. And it was a moment where it was a terrible decision to say, okay, what's your line? Is this your hill to die on? Is this a line you're willing to cross after years of it? And I was. Stephen, I was so scared. But I said. I said, we're gonna talk about this. After management decided not to anyway.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And what did I say? Because, remember, I wasn't aware of any of that stuff. Correct.

[Sage Steele]

But I knew nothing. All you saw was the article that

[Stephen A. Smith]

came out of the article. And then I saw your reaction. And what did I do?

[Sage Steele]

No, I gave a statement, and it was in the Wall Street Journal when they called because they heard about it. And when people brag about what they did to exclude people, then word gets out. And then I got a call. And you say, okay, I had Nick Khan at the time, and it was like, okay, what super agent? The best. What is the decision here? And by the way, I don't talk about this because it's part of my journey, and I'm grateful for this moment, too. But I knew it was a turning point. But I said, okay, if I'm preaching to everybody, including my children, to stand up for what is right, then I'm going to continue to stay silent for fear of many things that were real. And so I. The article came out, I went on the air shaking, knowing what was probably happening behind the scenes, and I get a text from this one. Why? Yes, how does this help you?

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. That's exactly what I text you.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. I'll never forget it, because I knew, number one, that you wouldn't do it if you didn't care about me as a human being, much less. Forget broadcaster. And number two, I'm like. Because for me, it is bigger than money, it is bigger than position. It is about principle at some point.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But here was the problem, and here's what I thought you missed. And I'll say this to you right here for this interview. You are very, very, very happy woman right now. That wasn't the case then.

[Sage Steele]

True.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You had a lot going on. It's none of anybody's business unless you want to tell it. And the fact of the matter is, I knew that. So I knew that. Your opinion.

[Sage Steele]

I had just gone through a divorce. I'll put it out there. It was out there, and it was a struggle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's cool. But what I was saying was is that. I'm not saying that that had something to do with your opinion. I'm saying it had everything to do with your zest to express it. And I was saying, why? In other words, got a family, you got a lot of stuff to think about. It's real easy for other people to sit by and let you just do it. Because you know what? I want to vent. I'm gonna let it out and I. Damn it, I've got these five minutes and I'm gonna say my piece. Nah, I'm thinking About the next five years of your life, next 10 years, your family, your children and all of that. And I'm like, they ain't gonna think about that because they're sorry asses. Whoever those people may be that are rooting against you. They're not thinking about you. They're thinking about the moment you're going to provide for them to have fodder to talk about you. And I was like, nah. So I said, why don't you? How does this help you? And by you, I know that you knew. You knew by you I meant your family. Like, how does this help you? How does this help you and your beautiful kids? Because that's how I'm looking at the big picture. That's what friends do. You understand? When I got my team, my team walks in here. My crew is in here with me. They watch my back.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They look out for me. You think I don't be wanting to vent? You? Come on, Sage, you know me for years. I don't. I won't hesitate to call people out. I won't hesitate. Come to cuss people out. It doesn't mean anything to me. But you got people to say, yeshua, Steve, my man Jeff, he's one of the guys famous. Steve, Steve, you don't need it. Steve, you right. Got it. But sometimes you need that. And that's what I tried to do. That's all.

[Sage Steele]

And I appreciate it. I don't think I thought that deeply about it, about it being about family and all that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, you absolutely didn't think about it.

[Sage Steele]

No, no.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I mean, that was my point.

[Sage Steele]

No, I'm saying your text to me, even I was like, it's easy for you and it isn't. But at the time, I'm like, well, he's Stephen A. And he can say whatever he wants because I've always said it, and I think it's more true now than ever. There's our rules and there's the Stephen A.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Rules.

[Sage Steele]

And it's a very different world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't feel that way. But I get you. I get you. I get you. I really do. Well, here's the thing. See, you're thinking about what I say and what I do. You're not. And I've told you this in the past. You didn't necessarily take into account the reaction to it. In other words, the reaction is always something I've had to deal with. I'm just built differently than you. I just didn't care. You see what I'm saying? So it was like. It really, really. I really didn't care. It's like, whatever, you know?

[Sage Steele]

Because you mean when they come after you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You. When they come after me. Because the only thing I ever cared about and I told, I put it on Front Street. I've said this to ESPN many, many times over the years. You do understand, I don't give a damn about what these people are saying. What I care about is how y' all react to what they're saying.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't care about what they say. Criticism. Bring it. This is the world that I live in. It's fine. That's all you got? That's that. That you're gonna end something. You think you're hurt? My heart. You think you're gonna prevent me from sleeping tonight? You think you're gonna prevent me from having a good time? You think you're gonna prevent me from living my life? I'm not fazed. But when they would react negatively towards a headline and that headache that it caused, that would tick me off because I thought that was the only fodder the critics have. Let's inconvenience him. Let's get ESPN to go after him because their punk asses couldn't do it themselves. Meeting critics. You see what I'm saying? And so my point is, do it. You do it. Don't look at espn. Why don't you come? You know, and that was my mentality. But I learned a long time ago, it's like, I'm not going to be a prisoner to what people think and whatever. Don't get me wrong. If I respect you and you're coming from a good place, and even if you're not coming from a good place, that you're making sense. I'm good. I'm good. But when you get personal and you're not attacking what I said or did, you're attacking me. And it's easy for me to dismiss you because I know you got an agenda. So I'm not fazed by it.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And it was difficult for you to come to that conclusion. And I believe. I don't know, but I firmly believed it was because black conservatives are on an island. And a lot more often than not, people are just attacking them because of their political point of view. And it really disgusts me. Some black people are conservatives because of fiscal issues. Some black people are conservatives because of immigration. Some black people are conservative because they're pro life instead of pro choice.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There's a multitude of reasons. You can't look at a group of black conservatives and assume all of them are that way and lean towards that direction, that tilt because of one issue. That's foolish. That's nonsense. And when you do that, it's grotesquely unfair to them. And I have always prided myself in everybody, left and right and center, but especially black conservatives. I always want them to know I got your back when it comes to you having the right to feel how you feel. Even if I disagree with you, you don't have to worry about me hating on you.

[Sage Steele]

I feel like you've gotten louder in your support recently.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, because I have my own platform. Before, I couldn't do it on espn. That's all it was. It's just that we were a sports network and people come there to see sports, not to see politics. So even when you touched on it, you know, you have to be very judicious in how you do it because you want to make sure you're giving the audience what the audience wants. When you've got numbers. When you know me, I'm about my business. And when they come to you and they talk about stocks dropping and they talk about shareholders ain't happy, and they talk about bottom line issues being affected because advertisers and sponsors are reticent about something. If they ever come to me with something like that, I'm paying attention.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not looking at it as, oh, the boss is bringing the heavy hand down upon bosses know me. All you got to do is tell me this. Bottom line being affected. What? How? Where? Show me that. Let me correct that because I intend to get paid. So if I intend to get paid, how am I going to pull that off? And I don't care about their bottom line. I gotta care about their bottom line because I care about my bottom line. It's very simple to me.

[Sage Steele]

You have always been looking so much further ahead than I think most people I've ever met in the business at the bottom line and at the future. So that's why you sent me that text that day. To not just live in the moment or make it an and moment further ahead.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're a consummate professional. I mean, you're a pro. And you know, listen, in our business, be very clear, you can do what the hell you want. You're that talented. They can say whatever they want to say. You've been, you've been around. You've done it too long. You've done too, I, I, I'm like, you do understand that I've been on SportsCenter with this woman, right? I've been on NBA Countdown with this woman. But you do understand that I've shared a broadcast stage with this woman. I know what she can do. So you're not going to come to me and talk to me. That Sage Steele is not doing XYZ in the business because of her talent. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. You know what? You need to learn from her rather than talk about her. It's just that simple.

[Sage Steele]

That means a lot. That means a lot. And that's not why I have you here, obviously. But it's just, it's fascinating. But I will say this. Even that day where I might have been shortsighted and all the things after that and before it, this is what I, and I feel like you, I don't want to put words in your mouth. Maybe you feel the same way. Gosh, it all had to happen this way to get to today. And while we learn from things and might tweak a thing here or there, I can't say I would change any of it because I had to fall in many ways personally and professionally in order to get to today, personally and professionally, where I never thought freedom wise about being able to say what I want. I mean, for the first couple years, since it's been two and a half years, for the first couple years, I go on a podcast or a show and I'd, I mean, I'd be mid sentence answering a question and be like, is Dave Roberts gonna say something? Is Norbert gonna say something? Is Bob Ackerman gonna come up behind me? Just because that's what you're trained. It's not about you. And you could, you weren't allowed to have an opinion. And so all of a sudden it's,

[Stephen A. Smith]

I wouldn't know about that because I've always been allowed to have an opinion, but go ahead.

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[Sage Steele]

Did I say a minute ago there's our rules and there's Stephen. A rules. Case in point. He's admitting it, I swear. But I loved you for it. Because you were the one that we were always like. Yes. Even if we disagreed.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

He says it and he says it, though. Even if we disagree with you, you have the facts to back up your opinion. You don't come in and just throw stuff around.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, I do not.

[Sage Steele]

No one works harder. I've said that from day one.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you.

[Sage Steele]

Including when you left ESPN.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Which was. I started in 07 and you left in 09.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And I think some people say, oh, he was fired. Whatever.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was like, oh, contract.

[Sage Steele]

You were a contract dispute. And they said, no, thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sage Steele]

And you went and did your thing and radio. You were in New York.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Right. And when you came back, you were different. Yeah, it felt very different.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was real different. I was real different because I recognized what was my fault. You know, whether it's Norby Williamson or anybody else. I have a great relationship with Norby Williamson now. I had a great relationship when. Before he left. I did not have a great relationship with him in 2009 because I blamed him. And it wasn't him. I blamed John Skipper. It wasn't John Skipper. It was me. I was a child. I was arrogant. I was very confident and full of myself because of my work ethic. I've never walked around thinking, oh, I'm better than everybody. I always felt I did more. I always felt I worked harder. I always felt I was more committed to the cause than anybody. And I thought that that should be rewarded. My mother, God rest her soul, was the one that really, really educated me by calling me to the carpet when she, in my book, Straight Shooter memoir, Second Chances and First Takes, when she brought me the eggs and bagel and, you know, the hand held mirror on the tray and told me, I'm waiting for you to look at yourself. And she chewed me a new one. She was pointing out how I was acting and how I was talking about my bosses at the time. And she says, I'm not saying that you should be fired, but would you want, would you have wanted to work for you? Wanted you working for you? If you would have, if you were the boss, you probably wouldn't have. And I had to really, really look myself in the mirror. And I thought I was old. I thought that I was like, I did this and I did that. How the hell could they shortchange me? And one of the things that she said that really, really hit home and this part I didn't write. I don't know why I didn't write it in my book, because I remember every word that she said. But she said to me, they did make you an offer. It wasn't like they said, go. Yeah, they actually made me an offer. And I didn't think it was good enough. So the point was, it wasn't like they said, we don't want you. Get out of here. It was after I turned them down and I was saying, I'm worth more. And it was about me. It wasn't about us. It wasn't about the collective. And you sit here and you talk about who you are and what you bring to the table, and one of the things that you say about yourself is that you were a team player. I wasn't a team player. Not a good enough team player. And I didn't know. I genuinely didn't know. I thought I was. And when I got let go and then my mother called me to the carpet. And then thereafter, I sit down with George Bodenheimer, the former president of abc, who I love dearly. He's the best and he is wonderful and he is just educating me about what People were saying, and let me know. The book is not, you know, the chapter. You know, it's not closed. You know, you could be back and giving me hope that one day, actually this is. This might not be the end. He was letting me know, look, man, you got a course to correct. You got to look yourself really, really hard. And when my mother said that and George said that, I looked at myself and I was more critical of myself than I have ever been in my life.

[Sage Steele]

Life.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I think that, you know, it was a real big time epiphany because it's the only time in my life I didn't afford myself the luxury of looking in any other direction but at me. Wow. Skipper didn't matter. Norby didn't matter. Nobody mattered but me. This is on you. You did this. How are you going to correct it? And in course correcting, what I discovered was that it didn't just change me as a professional, it changed me as a man. I looked at myself in a lot of different ways. I looked at what type of friend I was. I looked at what type of man I was. I looked at what type of brother I was, uncle I was, father I was. I just looked at everything. And I came to the conclusion, not good enough. Not good enough. And from that point forward, forward, I've made it a point to make sure that humility is a part of my life. I look in the mirror and I'm like, yo, I get away. It doesn't have to be in front of the cynics and the critics and all of that other stuff. But I go home every day thinking about what I could have done better. Every day.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, today, what did you say?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, to me today, for example, I thought that, you know, I did. First take this morning. I'm like, my energy could have been a little bit better. You know, I woke up a little bit sluggish, you know, because I was at my crib and I was so comfortable. And I ain't feel like working this morning. It's a rarity, but I ain't feel like work. I could have done better. Could have done better, you know? And then I'm sitting there and I'm doing my radio show and everything like that. And then I said, you know, I'm not as focused because I'm getting ready to go see Sage D. Shut up. I gotta make sure I'm. I gotta make sure I'm ready. I gotta make sure I'm ready. Cause who the hell knows what she's gonna ask me? So I'm sitting up there, you know, I'm like, what? Let me think about what the hell this girl might ask me. I'm just. I'm thinking about stuff like. But it's the truth. I mean, I think like that because you know me. I don't like to be unprepared. I don't. I don't have to be choreographed. I don't have to be coached or anything like that. But I like to be prepared always.

[Sage Steele]

But it's not like my goal has ever been or ever would be. And with anybody, even people I don't know, I don't need a gotcha. I'm not trying to do that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not. I wasn't worried about that. I'm talking about.

[Sage Steele]

You're trying to think which way I'm talking about conversation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because you know what I mean? You know how I am, Sage. I'm. I'm kind of spoiled in that regard. Like, for example, I want to be one of the best guests you ever had. So I'm sitting here with. I got to make sure I'm on my game. I'm ready to talk. I'm ready to spit whatever I need to spit. Do what I. I love you. This is what I meant. I got. I got to do it, you know? I can't just be some typical guest. I got to make sure you understand that I resonate. You understand? Sage didn't invite me to the crib on the ocean for nothing. You understand? I mean, I got to show up.

[Sage Steele]

I have to resonate.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got to do what I do. I got to do what I do.

[Sage Steele]

Where's your mushroom suit? As you're saying, I don't have that right now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't have that right now. It's in the closet somewhere. It's in the closet somewhere.

[Sage Steele]

But by the way, I love this because I've known the other side of Stephen A. And I think most people would hear you say that you lead with humility and be like, now he's lying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

They wouldn't believe that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure. But that's okay. They don't know me. You ain't supposed to know that about me. Cause I don't let everybody know everything about me.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't let people know, you know, like, listen, there are some times I'm sad. There are some times that I'm working so hard when, you know, my daughter's called me, and it's like, all right, you've been working lot. You know, you coming to get us. You understand what I'm Saying, bet about four days, you know, get here. You know, stuff like that. And, you know, you have aspirations as a man, as a father, as a professional, to be the very, very best that you can be. And obviously, more often than not, you come up short. And so that's a reality that you have to face. Now, the critics want you to show it to them, bump them. I ain't here to please them, you understand, as far as I'm concerned, I'm here to usurp them, to eclipse them in every way imaginable. So my attitude is, I'm not going to give anybody that luxury. But make no mistake, one of the reasons that I haven't tested no resolve, that I have a strong armor, is because I expose myself to my own vulnerabilities every day I look in the mirror. And I don't have a problem judging myself harshly. That's why I can take it when others do it.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because I do it.

[Sage Steele]

To me, there's such peace in that, isn't there?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

When you can just let go. And sometimes I do think it's important to be aware of what they're saying. To an extent.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure, to an extent.

[Sage Steele]

And to know it's out there for many reasons. But if you let it in here, that's on you, right? Not on the person saying it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sage Steele]

And that's kind of the. I think that only comes though, with wisdom, with getting beaten up a little bit, receiving it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, that true, but I also. You know, you're gonna find this crazy, but it's like I think about you often, you know, And I think about my man Steve Harvey, who's been a friend for many years. And I'm gonna draw a comparison between you two that nobody would ever think to do it. But I'll do it. You know, Steve Harvey has been successful for a very long time. But nothing compares to when he found Marjorie and the kind of impact that had on his life. When I think about you and you talk about all that you've been through to me and that man over there, you understand, wasn't here, you probably still be going through stuff, but you're not. Cause you got that, brother. You see what I'm saying?

[Sage Steele]

Why? What are you doing to me right now? Why are you trying to break me down?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because it's not about breaking you down. It's about making sure that you understand, that you talk about you went through what you needed to go through. And to some degree, that is absolutely true. But there's something to be said about finding. You can't find peace if you haven't found something to be happy about. Because if you're. If you haven't found anything to be happy about, your life is chaotic because you're in search of. Of happiness.

[Sage Steele]

Correct.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So the point that you've been able to capture that allows you to prioritize things differently and say, it's really not that important. That really is not that important. That really is not that important. And that is a very luxurious position that most people are not in. You have to understand that most people going to be jealous about that. See, what happens with Sage is that Sage is sharp with the tongue. Shay's smart as a whip. Shay's a professional, knows corporate America, knows the business, knows all of this other stuff and will clap back at you in a nanosecond. Right. Because she got that kind of attitude about her. Right? Right. So all of this stuff is going on and you were quick to do it in your own way because of all that you were going through. Now, you could do it easier, but you'd hesitate more because it ain't that damn important.

[Sage Steele]

It's not important. There's that piece. I will say this too. And I'm guessing you will agree.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure.

[Sage Steele]

It is easier said than done for almost everybody. I don't believe Dave would have come into my life if I had not been okay with me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

And we talked about it earlier, about being okay with yourself, being okay. Being alone.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

Especially as a woman. And for me, it's a. I mean, my faith has grown to levels I wish it had years ago. Takes what it takes, right? But when I personally let go of trying to control everything.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

Because that's what we do as mothers, too. I had three kids in less than four years. I've been going crazy ever since then. And then everything blows up and you go, wait. And your circle gets much smaller. You know who your people are quickly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And then you either melt down and freak out because you're sad and you're hurt and all those things, or you say, okay, God, what are you trying to show me here? And then it's up to us whether we receive that or not. And none of these things for me, the show, whatever would have happened, I believe until I let go of control. Looked in the mirror a lot, which is part of it, that could be.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but there's a flip side. Sometimes, amidst the chaos, somebody special comes along that sees all through that and would take you on anyway.

[Sage Steele]

Now. Now I need a big sip of this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just breaking it down. Yeah. Now, I've had. This is not the first time I've had to break these things down that you say this is not the first time. But the point that I'm trying to make to you is that, you know, there comes a point like men, and I can't speak for all men. Obviously men speak for themselves. But the men that I've spoken to throughout my life, more often than not, we believe that it's the women that are looking for us to be a finished product. And then they could come along and modify and embellish us in any way they mold in any way they choose. We understand there's always some hidden level of drama that is coming with y'. All. We may see it now, we may not catch it till later, but we gonna catch it, you understand? So what we're doing in the meantime is deciphering whether you're worth it, whether you're worth it.

[Sage Steele]

And that's it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Whether you're worth it. And so again, well, what determines whether you're worth it or not? Okay. Your beauty, intelligence, conversation making, ability to make somebody laugh, to ingratiate yourself with such a person where you just. Just being in their presence for guys. I think, I think I can safely speak for a lot of guys in this regard when I say this when we're bored, but we want you around anyway, that's a big deal. When you don't have to entertain us, you don't have to excite us, you don't have to work overtime. When we don't have to do that, we're just around doing nothing. But you like, where's she at? Why the hell is she upstairs? Why is she right here? I mean, and also, you know, you're looking at her, you look like this, but, you know, you really didn't feel like going out to the movies. Movies. But suddenly you do the restaurant. You know what? I'm perfectly fine eating at home. But dammit, baby, you want to go to the restaurant, we go to the restaurant. That's okay. It doesn't matter. Because you're with her. When you have that as a guy, that changes the game. Because it's like, okay, because you don't feel invaded. You don't feel like you're with an invasive individual. You feel like even though she's right here and you're right here, that you have your space because you welcome her in it. And she knows when to inch away a few inches to give you a little Bit more space. All of those things are very, very important. A woman in chaos may have problems doing that, but when she got somebody she wants, she learns very quickly, very quickly. And as a result, she's better off for it. And so is he. And I believe that is what happened to you. And I believe that's exactly what would have happened to you. I met the man a few minutes ago. I like him already. You know what I'm saying? He's a cool dude. He's a cool dude. I like him. You know what I'm saying? I said, yeah, yeah, I could see Sage. I see that.

[Sage Steele]

I'm glad that now that I'm married, I have your approval.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you know, I'm just saying. Well, you know, don't get me started with that. That approval took a long time to come. But this is true. It's here.

[Sage Steele]

This is true. However, you met my father.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And, you know, wonderful man.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And your brother.

[Sage Steele]

And my brother. Yep.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And there's another brother that you have not met.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

He's the baby.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

So next time you're in Nashville, let me know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

But you know, it's hard to get Gary Steele's approval.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My father. That's right.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He got it done.

[Sage Steele]

It's springtime, which means it's time.

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[Sage Steele]

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[Sage Steele]

Really good.

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[Sage Steele]

off camera the whole story. You're not gonna believe the story, but just like it will be when your daughters come to you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh yeah. You ever saw Bad Boys too? Remember when they terrorized Reggie at the door of Martin Lawrence and then Will Smith came and joined him? Remember they terrorized Reggie?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know what he said? He said, hold it. You 15, you look 30. Remember that? That's me. I openly admit that. I openly admit that I'm going to be a terrorist.

[Sage Steele]

Absolutely. A terrorist. A domestic terrorist. He's announcing it now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm announcing it right now.

[Sage Steele]

Gabard. He's announcing it right now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Please, can't. She can't help him. Can't help. Can't help the brother messing with my daughter.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, so you've had these conversations with your daughters?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And they know what's coming?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

How old is the oldest now?

[Stephen A. Smith]

17.

[Sage Steele]

She's 17?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Oh my God.

[Stephen A. Smith]

17 and 16.

[Sage Steele]

Boyfriend?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No.

[Sage Steele]

He's breathing heavy. Do you feel the room?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because she has somebody she's interested in, but he is not her boyfriend. And hopefully that will not happen. Not yet.

[Sage Steele]

What is the criteria? Oh, yes. Let me ask you guys, actually. Is it her boyfriend?

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not.

[Sage Steele]

Okay?

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not. Trust me.

[Sage Steele]

What is the criteria that would allow you to approve of someone being her boyfriend?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not gonna approve of anybody at this stage. Let me be very, very clear. And nothing's good enough. But I will say I am reasonable enough, that there's certain things that you can't help. And because there's certain things that you can't help. I get it and I understand it.

[Sage Steele]

Like what?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Um, you know, who she likes, who she wants to spend the time with. I can't control certain things.

[Sage Steele]

Fine.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But what I try to control is, first of all, you will not deal with a man that would even think about putting his hands on you. Cause I'll kill Him, you know what I'm saying? Let's get that out the way right now. Better not put your hands on my daughter. That's number one. Number two, respect, decency, cordiality. Not, you know, prompt, not tardy. You know, listen, you're gonna be late. That happens. Don't leave my daughter waiting and don't call. We don't tolerate that. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Daddy, Daddy didn't do that. I have never been a situation in my life with any woman I've ever dated where I didn't show up and didn't call. That does not happen. You can't. You don't leave somebody hanging like that. That's just disrespectful. You understand? You make sure of stuff like that. Laziness. Deal breaker. As hard as your daddy work, you know how offended I would be if my daughters ended up with a lazy dude with a lazy, trifling little ass? I mean, do you have any idea how I would lose my mind? As hard as I work, you would break them. As hard as I work, you gonna tolerate a lazy dude? Oh, no. You understand what I'm saying? You ain't got to have it. You ain't got to have what daddy has and all of that other stuff. I get it. But you know what? I got to know you striving. I got to know that you mission minded. That you got a vision for yourself, that you got dreams and aspirations. You understand? I can tell this story. My little niece. Hopefully she won't kill me. It happened. Well, she's in her 40s now. It happened over 20 years ago. So I can say this, this is a true story. So my little niece, one of my little nine nieces, calls me up, you know, she's like, uncle Steve, just want you to see him, you know. Cause you know, her father passed away at a very young age. I'm daddy door. And you know, Uncle Stephen wants you to see him. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I come, they at my mother's house. I drive to Hollis, Queens. And I drive and I see this brother. She's a senior in high school, he's a senior in high school. Brother basketball, six four, you know, look good athlete, basketball player, you know what I'm saying? Really, really cute guy, you know, the girls are just drooling all over him. He loves my little niece, whatever. So I tell her to go inside, let me sit out there, play basketball, let him talk with him the whole bit. No bit, no problem. He's getting ready to take her to the senior prom. And he starts talking about, you know, his aspirations and all this other stuff. And so I said, so where you going to college? Going to college? Really? Well, damn, why not? Navy, Army, Marines? What's going on? Talk to me. He like, nah, nah, not at all. I was like, so, what you planning on doing? He's like, Mr. Smith, you know, I want to be a garbage man. Those are his exact words. I went like this. What garbage men? Now, let me be very, very clear. Got no problem, right? It's a legal job.

[Sage Steele]

It's legal.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's a good paying job.

[Sage Steele]

It's a high bar.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's a good paying job. You understand what I'm saying? Pays the bills. You understand? It's an honest living. I'm not judging anybody for that. But that's for grown men who tried other things. And the alternative was to make sure you lean landed in that position. It ain't for you to be aspiring for it. As a high school student. I'm aspiring to be a sanitation worker. That's my aspiration. I said to him, I said, okay, all right. Nice to meet you, bro. No, no, no problem. Take care, you know? So I walk into the house. My sister's there. She's with her mama, and she's there. And I walked right up to her. I said, I want him gone by the end of the week. Oh, my gosh, no, no, Uncle Steve, no. Start instantly crying. Whatever, whatever. I said, I want him gone. I want him gone. I said, there's nothing to talk about. I don't want to see his ass here again. You understand what I'm saying? And it had. And I swear to you, it had nothing to do with. Do with him being a sanitation worker. I don't give a damn if my niece is married now or whatever. And you said, I could care less. I'm talking about the aspiration.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

As a high school student who's an athlete, and your aspiration was to be a garbage man. And he didn't say sanitation work. He said garbage. Garbage, okay? He literally said garbage man. I'm like, oh, hell no. Get rid of them. I want him gone by the end of the week.

[Sage Steele]

Was he.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And yes, he was. Yes, he was. He was. He was very upset. But she listened to Uncle. Why does that matter? Because I got two daughters. I was that way with my niece. How do you think I'm going to be with you?

[Sage Steele]

I'm gonna pray for them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You should do it. You should.

[Sage Steele]

No, but it's the right thing. Thing? Because. Because men with Daughters know what men say and do and how they think.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, we do.

[Sage Steele]

So you are trying to protect them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

From you? Basically.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Basically.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Basically or worse than me? Because there is a lot worse than me.

[Sage Steele]

And I'm not implying that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Of course.

[Sage Steele]

You're a good man and a God fearing man and your daughters are everything. But men are men in some ways. And we know their intentions, even if they're not ill intended.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

We know the intentions.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Imperfections are indiscriminate. Everybody has them. Yes, and I know that. Okay, what you're not gonna do, what you're not gonna do is come to the table with those imperfections like it ain't no big deal and you ain't got to make the slightest effort to change them while you messing with my daughter. Oh, no. And I just, I informed her, I said, you don't understand. I said, I want you to understand this. And I'm not proud of it, but I'm telling you. Oh, periodically I'm going to spy. They get on me about that all the time. I'm going to spy. Oh, yeah, you think I'm just going to let you get away? You think you're going to just walk along on college? You're going to go to college. You ain't going to see Daddy. You ain't going to hear from Daddy. Daddy ain't going to have any idea what you're doing. I'm Stephen. Shut up. Oh, I'm not gonna sit idly by and let you. I'm not gonna tell you. I'm not gonna tell you where. I'm not gonna tell you when. I'm not gonna tell you who or whatever. I'm Stephen A. I know pd, I know dea, I know detectives, I know atf. I know every. I know people on, in every lane. You don't sit in our business making connections and don't have connections to some of these things. Oh, yes, I'm going to spy. Absolutely. You said, try me. Try me. I did all of this busting my butt all of these years to make sure you taken care of, to just let you go out there willy nilly and operate with impunity. Oh, no. I'm Daddy. And I'm Daddy. Yes. I'm sorry. That's the way it's gonna be.

[Sage Steele]

It's gonna be Stephen A. Are you kidding me? And I know that you have raised strong daughters who suddenly kind of have a presence publicly and. No, that's on you. That is completely on you. You can say that you've had her on your shows.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I've had her on twice.

[Sage Steele]

You had her on your shows.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's true. Samantha is a special case. She's just a bit different. Sage, what does that mean? She's a bit different? First of all, I'm blessed and fortunate to have two very, very intelligent daughters. I'm cursed because they both got mouths on them, and obviously that comes from.

[Sage Steele]

I don't know where they would have gotten.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got it. Okay? So it's God getting me back big time. It's a double whammy. It's like. It's a lot. Okay, it's a lot. But the other side to it is that Samantha and I compare her to Nyla in this regard. Nyla is brilliant, but almost like a recluse. Nyla don't want no attention. I made an appearance on Stephen Colbert. Nyla was in the audience. The camera came looking for her. Nyla hid under the chair.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nyla wants no parts of it. Nyla wanna live her life. Nyla don't wanna be bothered. Nyla wanna do her thing. Samantha. Psst. With a camera.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Please bring it here.

[Sage Steele]

And she's beautiful.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm better at it than you. Anyway, this is what she's says. She's very. She's not.

[Sage Steele]

She knows that camera loves her, too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

She knows that camera loves her in the whole bit. And my nephew Josh, God bless him, this dude, smart as a whip, and he's like a son to me, but he, you know, he thinks he owns the world until he gets around Samantha. Samantha's like, there's levels to this. You're not on this level. I'm his daughter.

[Sage Steele]

This is what I remember. This is.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is what she does. And so she operates like that. And she ended up on my podcast because literally, I had brought her to the finals in Indy. And we come home, and I'm getting ready to. We fly back into New York and I'm taking her home. I have to stop by my podcast studio. I'm in the podcast studio taking care of business. She goes into the control room, is like, roll the cameras. To my staff, to myself. Roll the cameras. And they looked at. Hesitated. Look at it. She was like, what you looking for him for? You work for me. Because my daughters are part owners of my production company. So she's like, wow. She's like, you work for me.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my goodness.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Roll the camera. And I had no idea. And so I walk in there, and I look at the screen, and she on the damn camera. Hi, y'.

[Sage Steele]

All.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'M filling in for Stephen A. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Sage Steele]

I died.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So by that time, it's too late. And I'm like, just roll the camera, man. And, you know, and the next thing I know, millions of people. I mean, millions of people see it, view it. Every damn talk show in America is calling me to have her on. And I'm like. She's like, dad, when we doing this, you created this.

[Sage Steele]

But it was so awesome because you are very rarely not in control when the cameras are on and you lost all control.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Did you see her?

[Sage Steele]

Especially because of your soft spot for her.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Did you see when she took over the 6 o' clock sports center? You missed that?

[Sage Steele]

No, I think she was.

[Stephen A. Smith]

She rolled in the middle of the 6 o' clock sports center at the NBA playoffs in the finals when Al Duncan took over the telecast.

[Sage Steele]

I did see that. I did see that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

She wasn't supposed to be on camera. She wasn't supposed to be rolled right into the camera. She looked at El Said. And El said, come on in.

[Sage Steele]

Come on in. Yes. Listen, this is payback. They say paybacks are hell. And the best part is that you never have to worry about her.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What?

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no. You don't have to worry about her. She is going to stand up for herself whenever there is a question. She's going to put people in their place when they need to be put in their place. She's going to be protective of everybody in her circle, including you. Even if you don't think you need it, she's going to be protective of you. That is a strong young woman. That is the kind of woman.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here's what you're missing.

[Sage Steele]

Tell me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're dads. Ask your man. We always worry.

[Sage Steele]

I know this. And as a mother, I worry, too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're never at peace. A man with his daughters, that's true. Is different levels. And I'm telling you right now, it's a curse. It's a blessing, but it's a curse because you're never at peace. Because I am in love with my daughters. My Nyla and my Samantha are my everything. I mean, it's like. And it's a curse because they know it. Wow.

[Sage Steele]

That's also your fault.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They know it.

[Sage Steele]

See this pinky?

[Stephen A. Smith]

So it's like. It's like they just. They just. They sit up there and so Samantha's like. Samantha. And I was like, you know, we got A's. And, you know, because we got A's, basically B's, we can do what we want to do because we got A's. I was like, what the hell does that mean? She was like, well, we just decided we're going to Cuba this last year. Let's get over it. I mean, it's on your credit card. It's already booked.

[Sage Steele]

This is called. I have a lot of names for this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's hard.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not hard.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's hard, Sage. See, a woman would say otherwise. You say what you're saying, man. It's hard.

[Sage Steele]

You are being soft when it comes to your daughters. The fact that a 17 year old has your credit card and books a trip to Cuba, that is on you and that is soft. I'm sorry, I don't. Absolutely not. What are you teaching them? Daddy worked hard. Here you go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I can cancel the trip. I just did it. Correct. Because they deserved it.

[Sage Steele]

How do they deserve it? Because they did their job and got an A. That's their job.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, it is their job. I totally agree with that. But I do have.

[Sage Steele]

No, he said, but I do have. When you say, but it's over.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I do have.

[Sage Steele]

It's over.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Two beautiful daughters. I mean, they really, really, really are good kids.

[Sage Steele]

And your girls over there are rolling the rise, cheering me on because they know, like, first of all, I love that America gets to see the softer side of Stephen A. But like, this is weak sauce. For you to be like, well, Sage

[Stephen A. Smith]

is on camera calling me weak sauce. This is very bad.

[Sage Steele]

They got as and they got my credit card. And there's like, daddy, I'm going to Cuba. First of all, those are rich people problems and you're not going to get any sympathy. I know this and I know this. They have got you wrapped like both your pinkies. Just cut them off.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not when they misbehave and not when they act up.

[Sage Steele]

What does misbehave mean? This should be intentional.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You disobey your dad, you're saying you don't handle your responsibilities, whatever they may be. You don't follow instructions. Dad does not tolerate that. This is not a democracy. I am the law. The problem is, once they do this,

[Sage Steele]

I am the law. Except for when they have my credit card, they can do what they want.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here's the problem. They do what I need them to do and they conspire. Sage, you understand what I'm saying? They go like this. When one is acting up, the other pulls them back and goes like this. Come here, come here, come here. All you have to do is this. This will work. He'll calm down in A few hours and we'll get it. This is what they do. This is what they do. They conspire in a plot, and they gang up on me. And it just gets to a point

[Sage Steele]

where it's like, you get weak and you say, fine, take it all. Take it all.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I should have known. You know, when they were little, I had this beautiful, beautiful white couch. And I loved laying on my white couch. And they wanted to lay in the bed with me to watch a movie together. And I didn't want to. I wanted them to be in their rooms watching their tv. I wanted to. To be in my room watching my tv. And it kept bugging me. It kept bugging me. It kept bugging me. It was pissing me off. And I said, stop now, damn it. Go to your room. You heard what I said. You understand? Don't make me right. And Nyla pulled Samantha to the side and whispered something in her ear, and they both went like this. And then they walked over to me and they said, no problem. We won't lay in your bed. Bed. We'll just lay right here on this beautiful white couch. Because they know they eating chocolates, popcorn, and stuff like that. And I'm thinking about my white couch, and I'm like, come on in the bed.

[Sage Steele]

And you had one on each side, didn't you?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, Always.

[Sage Steele]

It's beautiful.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Always.

[Sage Steele]

These are the moments. And then when you do finally approve of a young gentleman, probably not for a couple decades, like, you're an.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're welcome. A couple decades. Right.

[Sage Steele]

You're going to miss those moments. You know, it's hard. Quinn is almost 24 now, and my baby girl, Evan, is turning 20. The baby. The boy in the middle. God bless my son in the middle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not even saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that I'm preoccupied with the terrorists that I'm going to need to be before all of that. I got terrorism on my mind when it comes to them.

[Sage Steele]

My brother Chad, who, you know, used to call my kids Al Qaeda.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow.

[Sage Steele]

It's true. It's true. So that's what you have. You have domestic terrorists in your home.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. And they live to torture me. I mean, you know, you ever see what it's like with a kid when they act up and they go like this? You know, they're looking around with, like, this mischievous, devilish smile. That's them.

[Sage Steele]

The best part, though, is that. And I love this. I am obsessed with this part of it. I need, like, video. Can you Guys, like, take a video of this happening when he's melting down completely and just send it to me just for. Just for my viewing. I promise. But here's the best part. You have four older sisters.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

You are prepared beautifully for this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't feel like it. Nothing has prepared me for these two seeds. Nothing. They are on a different level. And let me tell you something right now. The whole politics thing, you should see them with that.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, boy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nyla. Who wants that? We didn't ask that. I so disapprove. I totally disapprove. I don't want that. Who wants that in my life? I don't need no Secret Service. I don't need all of that. I don't want. My people need to mind their business. Keep me out of it. I don't want to know anything. Samantha, you tripping. Air Force One, Secret Service, White House, no bills, everything free. Don't have to wait in lines for no restaurant. You are tripping, girl. Sit. Roll with you. That's them. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

[Sage Steele]

So they do or they don't want you to run for president?

[Stephen A. Smith]

They don't. But they also thinking about the perks they get to receive from it. Nyla wants no part of it. Samantha wants all of it. Two opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, so what do you do?

[Stephen A. Smith]

What do I do?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Listen, listen.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no. Don't avoid. Who are you going to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I like my money. Listen, I'm dead serious from the standpoint that if I didn't have to give up my money and I can go on that debate stage against these Democrats and some of the stuff that they have done. Oh, I would jump at it. It would be a epic. I think 100 million people will watch. It would be box office. Because I would be more ready for that than any sporting event I've been in my life. I would be.

[Sage Steele]

I believe that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I believe I would be so ready for it. Because I'm sick of what has happened to this country, and I'm sick of the things that the politicians have done and for the purposes of our community. In terms of what? The Democratic Party? The progressive left? More so than just the Democrats.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, there's a difference.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got a real big problem with the progressive left. So it would. I would be hyped and ready to roll. The problem is, according to equal air time and stuff like that, I have been informed that the minute I announce that I want to participate in the debates and I intend to do so, I'm immediately yanked off the air because. Because of equal time, which means I don't get my money. Now, Sage, I've worked entirely too hard. You know me. I'm a proud. Ain't no socialism in me. Ain't no communism in me. Ain't none of that. I'm a proud capitalist, and I'm telling you right now, I worked too hard to get my money to give it up. So I wasn't joking and just putting stuff out there like, I wasn't sincere and didn't mean what I say about what my intent was. It's just that they said to me, I got to give up my money. Well, that's not happening. All these politicians out here trying to get paid like I'm getting paid.

[Sage Steele]

Well, they find Nancy Pelosi has found a way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, that's.

[Sage Steele]

They all found a way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's. After she's in office. It ain't just Nancy Pelosi. The Republicans get paid, too. Now, stop that. There's a whole list of them. We ain't absolving nobody from them.

[Sage Steele]

I'm just saying with the fraud, with all. There are ways. And you wouldn't do that. So you're in office.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's one day in office. I'm saying. They saying to me that I can't run.

[Sage Steele]

Now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

If you told me if I got an office okay, then I'd have to leave. I'm good with that.

[Sage Steele]

So the second you run, you have to forfeit a.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You have to forfeit. And I'm saying that's a pretty penny right there, dear. I'm not giving that up.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, that contract took about, what,

[Stephen A. Smith]

about 20 something years?

[Sage Steele]

It did.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not doing that. I'm not giving that up.

[Sage Steele]

I am grateful for how protective and soft protective you are of your daughters. Because our girls need to know that their fathers, the men in their lives, are with them through thick and thin, no matter what. And I actually feel that over the last several years, men haven't been men nearly enough. Like, I don't know what has happened. I don't know the why behind it. I'm not smart enough to understand what has happened. But we need strong men to do exactly what you're doing with your daughters. Most importantly, obviously, to protect them. But it affects the decisions they make and the men that they choose, Right? And then it's generational, because then their daughters see it and their daughters see it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me say two things. Number one, I have no sympathy, no compassion, no patience for a man who doesn't want to be A man when it comes to his choice, they didn't ask to be here. You know, one of my all time favorite shows was Good Times. James Evans senior, dirt poor, living in the projects in Chicago and busted his tail to provide for his family. And whatever you had, you had. Whatever you didn't have, you didn't have. But it wasn't for a lack of effort on his part. You know, that saying that I adopted a long time ago, they're hungry is because I'm starving. I. It ain't going down like that, you know, it's, it's, it's not, it's, it's. I'm never going to allow that to happen. I'm not comfortable until I know they're comfortable. My definition of comfort is knowing they're comfortable first. Then after that I can engage in whatever comfort I want, but they first. And so I don't have any patience for any man that thinks differently. Don't give a damn who you are. They ain't asked to be here. That's your responsibility. But I also think that there's an awful lot of good men, black men, white men, Hispanic men, and a lot of great, great fathers. And we don't get nearly the credit that we deserve. It's not foreign and it's not an aberration for a man to love his little girl or to love his boy. Fathers, there are an awful lot of good fathers in this world, but we don't hear that enough because it's always about the mothers. And the mothers deserve all the praise in the world because it's the hardest job in the world. We get that part. But there's a lot of men out in this world that are doing the right things.

[Sage Steele]

Absolutely.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And a lot of times I'm like, where y' all get these numbers from? You sure they right? You sure this problem is as prolific as you're saying they are? Because a lot of times I know plenty of men, me personally, I know plenty of men who are great fathers and not nearly as satisfied with the fathers they themselves are because the relationship with the mother gets in the way. And there's bitterness and vitriol and all of that other stuff. And then interference comes into the equation and we don't talk about that. We don't talk about that. You know, and so it's like you have, there are people that you have in this world, male and female, who so despised the partner that they birth a child with that they allow that relationship to get in the way of the parenting.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

To make sure. That it makes the other parent look bad. That is not just men with women. That's women with men, 100%. And it's like. It's like we have to say that because in the end, it's about the well being of the child. And if you're doing anything that impedes a father's ability to be the best father that he could possibly be or a mother to be the best mother that she could possibly be, then you made it about you and used the child as a tool to pull it off, which means you doing it at their expense. Which to me, as a parent, is unforgivable.

[Sage Steele]

It is evil. Evil. And I've seen it a lot. Yeah, it breaks my heart. And at the end of the day, you might feel better in that moment as that spiteful partner. And maybe some of your reasons are valid, but it has nothing to do with those kids. And instead, you are hurting them and then hurting their potential to be a good parent because they haven't witnessed it the right way. And it is disgusting and unforgivable and evil in all those ways.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

I also want to say, gosh, women, we need men. And

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't blame you for saying that. Cause I know where you going. I know exactly where you're going. I don't blame you one bit.

[Sage Steele]

Where am I going?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We live in a time. And see, this is where I'm not conservative. This is where my liberal side comes in, but with a twist. I am a supporter of the LGBTQ community, gay rights. Live your life. Live and let live. So am I. I'm good with. Okay, I'm good with it. But I do believe that in some cases, what we've seen unfolding over the last. I don't know whether it's a half decade, decade. I can't pinpoint it, but there's an emasculation of men taking place where the deeds that we. We do and engage in, the effort that we put forward forth the heart and soul that we put into trying to be the best that we can be while still understanding there are roles that you're supposed to play. Okay. I do believe that has been hijacked.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

In favor of narratives that people on the progressive left, unfortunately, not all, but some of them want to push. And it's offensive. And the reason I say that is because of this. I want my woman working. I want her to have a job. I want her to get her money. I don't mind that. But in the same breath, that don't have anything to do with me and my intent to pay the bills. Now, if I could pay all of them, I'll pay all of them. Obviously, I can pay all of them, okay? But if I couldn't pay all of them, I try to pay most the of of them. If I could have paid most of them, I try to pay half of them. I'm not trying to live off of somebody else because I'm a man and I don't believe me personally, Stephen A. Smith, don't believe that a man should be provided for financially by a woman.

[Sage Steele]

Preach.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's me. Now, if you feel different, that's fine. But my belief comes from a place. It comes from a place that watched my mother take care of the family because my father did it for decades. And it comes from a place where I saw how taxing it was on her and how this Hercules of a woman managed to raise six kids, put herself through nursing school after she had the six kids to make sure that we had food on our plate, clothes on our back and a roof over our head despite the obstacles that were thrown in front of her. As I've repeated on many, many occasions, and I'm unapologetic about it without having to go all knee deep into the details. My sisters resented my father for a multitude of reasons. I resented him for one. That one reason is that you had my mother doing your job. That's it. Everything else, as long as you didn't put your hands on her. Y' all are two adults. Y'. All. It's your business. I may not like it, but I'm a child. You're the adult. I know my place. Where all of that goes out the window is when I watch my mother working from 7:00am to 11:30 every night. Queens General Hospital, then a nursing home down the block, 16 hours a day, seven days a week, one week's vacation for 20 years. And you did nothing to alleviate that weight on her shoulders. To me, that's the Stephen A that's going out to dinner with a woman and I'm picking up the tab. That's the Stephen A that's gonna treat you to the movies. That's the Stephen A that if I'm going on vacation, I'm gonna pay for that. Ain't no such thing as I got it. No, you don't. You call me a sucker? You call me anything you want to if you wanted those dudes that are mooch out there. That's not how I roll because I saw that on my mother. So when I come from that Place. And I hear where you're coming from. I got it. But it hits home to me in a very, very personal way because I believe that although we live in the age of independence and women's live and go for yours, get yours, have it all, I'm here for you. It doesn't have anything to do with my role. You could sit up there and be a millionaire in my life. I might let you treat me to the movies. I might let you do that. That's about it. We ain't living at your crib. We living at mine. I'm not. You're not paying my bills. I'm paying my bills because I saw what it did to my mother. And I believe that this world. Whereas once upon a time we were about that. Yeah, we ain't about that now. And so when people hear me say something like that, they'll bring up conservatism. And I'm looking at them, what the hell I got to do with conservatism? That's manhood.

[Sage Steele]

It's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's how I view. It's political. It's not political at all. Yeah, but people try to politicize everything because in a binary system that we're living in, everybody wants something to attach itself to, to validate their existence.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm like, nope, we're not doing that. That has nothing to do with politics. You know how many boys I've had? I'm like, what you doing, bro? Nah, nah, nah. Pick up that tab. Hell you mean? What, you looking for her to pay for your ass? Paid for. You got a job. What you doing? And my boy, you right, you right, you right. Come on now. Let's make sure we do what we supposed to do.

[Sage Steele]

But I need women to listen to what you're saying here and to raise the bar.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Sage Steele]

Because sometimes our. And I'm in a different place now. But speaking for millions of women we've allowed, we have enabled this behavior by saying, no, no, no, look, I'm strong, I got a job, I can handle all these things. And it has backfired to the point where many men think that it is. Okay, now, is it a two way street as we were talking earlier? Yes. But when we almost welcome it and it's like a pride thing, like, drop the ego. We can be successful. We can be mothers and wives and be bad asses in our jobs and still allow a man to be a man and to lead and to uplift us and to protect us and still encourage us. I now know for a fact that it is possible to have both.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But see, I can say this to you and most people can't. See, this is where Sage still gets herself in trouble.

[Sage Steele]

Go ahead.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me tell you how you're not wrong for those situations, but every situation ain't that. Of course you have women that are out there and who told you they want a man, they want independence, they don't want a man. They don't want someone to answer to. They don't want somebody to be accountable to. Because when you have a partner, see you married, you gotta be accountable to that man. You don't get to just sit up there. That's one o' clock in the morning. Yeah, I'll be up. Really? Try. Try. See how it works. I just met him. Try. See how it works. I just see how that works. Ain't gonna work. You see my man, you know my man. Juvies. That's my man right there. Goes with. Please. You understand? Try it. You understand? His wife is wonderful. Try it. Think about it. It. You better not, because man, we ain't having it. You know me. Come on now. Oh, you know. Yeah, baby. I'll be home. I'll get home when I want to work. Really sure about that? You sure you gonna have a home to come to? Please try me. You see, so what I'm saying to you is that every situation is different. What happens is this. This is what happens with Sage Steel.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I love it when he tells me how I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Cause I know you. This is the point, Sage. Your facts are right. I know your facts are right. What a woman is asking of from you is the compassion and the sensitive side when the facts don't necessarily align completely with their situation.

[Sage Steele]

I know this because I have also. I have been there. I've been on the other side of that. And so. And I'm the first one to be out there and to be very probably sometimes too vulnerable about my situations personally and professionally.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But that's about your situation. I said.

[Sage Steele]

But none of us can be in any way. No, that's fine. But you take your own experience and try to put yourself in their shoes. That's our job, to do that and to have the conversation if you're able to. There's no one situation that is exactly alike. But I think in our core, we have to have this belief and this value. So I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying deep down though, we know it's the right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. But I'm saying to you, Sage, at your weakest point, the worst that could be said about you was that you were a consummate professional. You had a career, a talent that you were able to capitalize off of the average medium salary in the world, in America, rather, is anywhere from 75 to $85,000.

[Sage Steele]

Correct.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think it's safe to say it's been a long time since Sage made that. That amount of money. I think that she's been a bit more affluent, to say the least, for quite a long time. Okay. So the struggles that you have were primarily internalized by yourself because you know who you are, what you want for yourself and whatever. But what it didn't have anything to do was an absence of capability, an absence of opportunity.

[Sage Steele]

But it doesn't matter, because back in the day. Well, but back in. My point is, I'm here today because I didn't have that understanding of my own capabilities or even the confidence to talk about. I did not until more recently.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Your capabilities correct. You, somebody as a professional.

[Sage Steele]

All of it. Yes, all of it says, you always had a job. I had a job.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You always had a job. But nobody think about laying you.

[Sage Steele]

This is not a sympathy thing. This is not a sympathy thing. I'm just telling you that that can exist. Just like you can. Can get out there every day, and you're as prepared as possible. But there's also a human side of you that is. There's insecurities there. There's things that you doubt. There's things that you are probably. We all have shame for any number of things. Absolutely both can exist. And so while we're doing this, you're still down here and doubting potentially. So I'm right about that. I'm saying that like, instead of being like, yes, yes, yes, I am woman, hear me roar. And. And it's okay to have weaknesses and vulnerabilities. That's the human side. When you try to portray yourself as somebody who's got it all together, like, it's just not. It's just not true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But I don't view a lot. I shouldn't say not most, not all, but some particularly alluding again, to the progressive left. I don't view these women as saying, I have it all.

[Sage Steele]

I don't need this. I don't need that. Look, we are women.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here's how I view.

[Sage Steele]

You hear that all the time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here's how I view them.

[Sage Steele]

And I don't believe them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I view them as hell with y', all men. That's how I view them.

[Sage Steele]

That's also a trendy thing to say. Right now, too. People get sucked into it, and at the end of the day.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And they shouldn't. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I'm just saying. So then men. And now with all the movements over the last couple of years, I mean, if you're in the hallway at ESPN with me, you might have said, hey, I love that dress. That looks great on you. Whatever. And I. And I'm not taking that as an HR offense. Stephen A. It was a complimentary. It's fine. Now. You men are afraid to say something as basic as anything, because why?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because I do it on national television. I don't care. I do that. I like the dress. I like the outfit. I like to hit. I do it on purpose. I do it on purpose. Just above the system. Way to go. Way to go. Because I get tired of that. Because I saw a lot of that, and I'm appalled to put.

[Sage Steele]

And then. And then Molly would say, thank you. Go on to the topic. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. I really like that dress.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sage Steele]

Like you would do it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm very proud. I'm very, very, very proud. I said, you know, hold on to the compliment. Hold it on.

[Sage Steele]

You know, you might not get it again. Hold on to it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Sage Steele]

I just think it's gone too far. And I hope and pray that women can be strong and proud and have the confidence. And it's okay if you just say you don't need it. It's okay to have a man alongside you. He's not trying to control you or squash you. Both can exist.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But can we be real about something here? Some of it not you, but some of the subject matter that we're tackling as much to. About nothing. It's people using it to galvanize folks to their side of the fence by any means. Nothing.

[Sage Steele]

But unfortunately, so many young women and older women are taking it seriously.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Much more. You've heard me complaining about politicians and politics. You've heard me saying, they both discuss me. You've heard me saying, going all the way.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, you're consistent with that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm so sick, because I think what they've done to us is criminal. There are so many issues that have nothing to do with politics that they've lumped into the political dialogue as a means to build their voting blocks. And they've used us as pawns where we find ourselves arguing about things we would never argue about. Think about this. If somebody. Years ago, if somebody walked up in here and she was a lesbian and she walked up in here with A girlfriend. She's like, I'm fine with my relationship. I don't need a man. You don't care.

[Sage Steele]

I don't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You don't care. Neither would I. But now you're wondering about whether or not we should care about X, Y and Z because of what they've done to us. Because those are issues along with various others. It could be immigration, it could be health, it could be anything where you're using every little nugget of information that you can find to garner somebody to your side. And you're leaving American citizens as pawns to be out there fighting amongst ourselves over stuff we really, really don't have a problem with in the end. Because in the end, even if you feel differently than I do, we're like, live and let live. The problem is, if you're using it as a reason to vote somebody in office that you might not have wanted in office or I might not have wanted in office, then that's a reason to be disgusted and to build your angst and to have vitriol towards one another. It's a game that they're playing. We're just stuck because it's a binary system and they've utilized it to their advantage, which is why they pissed me off on Capitol Hill.

[Sage Steele]

This is exactly true. It's true. And it is on us as a incumbent upon us to take the time to educate ourselves. And you've done a beautiful job of listening to both sides and then the facts that somewhere in the middle and forming your opinion based on that. And I think that you've done a good job much, especially recently, especially really leading up to the 2024 election, to say, okay, I don't care. RD, red, blue, whatever. What are the facts? I'm going to go based on that. One of the issues that is. Has been completely politicized and is embarrassing and pathetic and excruciating for me and inexcusable that it's even a topic is men and women's sports, period, Full stop.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not an issue for me. I went on air Megyn Kelly almost. She was like, by the way, great job when you appeared on her show. But she asked me and I looked at her and I said, why are you talking to me like, we disagree?

[Sage Steele]

When was that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We don't. This was over a year ago.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was like, about a year maybe. I think it was right before the

[Sage Steele]

election actually going on since I was still at ESPN with the Riley Gaines, Leah Thomas. I call him Will because he's a man. That story, since 2022, I believe. And tell me why. Why did it take three years for you to say something that I know you've believed this entire time?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Excuse me? I said it on first take. From day one.

[Sage Steele]

From day one.

[Stephen A. Smith]

From day one. Day one. With what?

[Sage Steele]

With. With Riley.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Gainesville. I think it was Thomas for. For Penn.

[Sage Steele]

Well, Thomas.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right. I was like this. I said, you transitioning from a man to a woman, you shouldn't be competing against women.

[Sage Steele]

You said that on first takes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely. And I was like this. They were like, listen, do you want, at that particular time, in that particular climate, to us to belabor the issue? No, but I made it very, very clear.

[Sage Steele]

But the point is, right, look what has happened with this issue and how Democrats literally down the line are voting basically against women and protecting women's spaces and making it this issue. That is absolutely ridiculous. And that you're anti trans.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

Because you're trying to protect women's spaces.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They're full of it. But they know what I'm saying. They're full of it. And this is. I'm glad you brought this up, because it's a difference between people like me and you. People like me and my boy Jeff and others. Here's the deal. I don't disagree with you, but I understand what they're doing. So you got 13.6% of the population, which is the black community. Right. You don't want to just rely on the black vote anymore. You got to get the Latino vote. You got to immigration reform and things like that. The kind of things that you've been pushing for. If you're trying to build a voting block. When we talk about trans, you're talking about members of the LGBTQ community. You want to.

[Sage Steele]

That's different from trans, Lesbian, gays. Very. Totally different from trans.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I totally agree, but they don't.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no. That's not true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Some of them don't. Oh, yes. I'll tell you what they've told me. I don't know. Hold up, because I'm not one of them. But I'm telling you what they told me. I'm just telling you what they told me. Another words. They lump it in. And so what happens is the Democrats lump it in. Right?

[Sage Steele]

But most lesbians and gays do not. They want that separation. 80% of Americans, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, agree on this issue.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm leaning on you because I didn't research that. I'm not denying it.

[Sage Steele]

You know this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not. I believe it. I believe it. But what I'M saying to you is this. I was talking about the Democrats. I'm saying you want to get every vote that you can.

[Sage Steele]

So this is stupid then. Because if 80%, basically, I'm sorry, on

[Stephen A. Smith]

one hand, if I'm sitting there and I'm going like this, okay, this is bs but if they believe that that BS is going to get them a larger percentage of the vote.

[Sage Steele]

But with this issue, they know it's not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is what they.

[Sage Steele]

This is just going against the Republicans. That's Dave Chappelle. You saw that. Dave Chappelle with Dave Chappelle. When Dave Chappelle literally made the joke because he's one of the. He's like you. He doesn't care. He is uncancelable. God bless Dave Chappelle. Please don't change. And when he talked about this issue and said, oh, okay, fine. If you're fine with, you know, men who identify as women for today coming into women's spaces, that means the WNBA, which stands for what women.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He said LeBron James. LeBron James are coming in average 83 points a game.

[Sage Steele]

No. Yeah. Like 806 points per game. And we're all going to celebrate that, aren't we?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

Because we know this is a stupid conversation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right. But what I'm saying to you, then how do you explain that the progressive left has leaned on this issue if their objective is to win seats?

[Sage Steele]

Because to me, it is plain and simple. It is a matter of refusing. It's an ego thing, refusing to acknowledge that the people over here, because it's pretty much 100% on the right that they might be right. It is an ego thing. And it's actually, it actually hurt.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I would push back on that.

[Sage Steele]

It has hurt them because ABC News should have hurt CBS Rap, Quinnipiac, all the liberal pollsters, everybody says it on the left, they know this. So why are they voting? And at the end of the day, there's zero excuse. Because if you're standing up for women, which is what you have pushed this entire time, I mean, the left, right, and the Democrats, we are the party

[Stephen A. Smith]

of women and held us accountable for it. Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

And then what are you, Billie Jean King, Serena Williams, Megan Rapinoe, all these people like Serena actually went on late night TV and said it a couple of years ago.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But Sage, what's not making sense to me in terms of what you're saying is that you're saying they don't care, but they want political power. Clearly they believe it's a working mechanism for them. Now, I Think they should have found their com. They should have found out in 2024 when they lost the Trump.

[Sage Steele]

You'd think.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You would think. You see what I'm saying? But my point to you is that they were pushing it up to the election. It made no sense. That's why I've been going off on them.

[Sage Steele]

Why do you think so many male athletes. We work with these men every single day, NFL, NBA, whatever it is, who've got not as much to risk. They got 150 million bucks in their pocket. Or maybe it's much less than. I don't care. This is common sense. And many of them, like you, have daughters who are athletes. Are you going to let a young man at the volleyball net play against your daughter, knowing what's at risk? We have seen the injuries. And so there's way too many men. Charles Barkley found it. Way too many men in prominent positions who have the financial security. This is not your $65,000 a year job. Who's a janitor and is trying to talk in a school board meeting. Who really could lose his job for this opinion, which is insane. These men in sports who know damn well a woman could not compete, are staying silent. Why?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Some guys, some people, and this is very, very sad, some people don't care about a damn thing unless it affects them directly. We just got to call it like we see it. Some of us are conscientious enough to say, bump that. I got this public platform. Ain't no way I can sit silently and say nothing. Some people like, when it comes to politics, it's a cesspool. It's been a cesspool. This is the latest issue.

[Sage Steele]

We're talking about sports.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, no, no, no. I'm just saying, not politics.

[Sage Steele]

They have gotten into it being political to them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It is, it is, it is. This, this, this. Absolutely nothing that you can say is non political. Now, I know you can't say that. You can't, you can't say that now. I just don't happen to care. You see what I'm saying?

[Sage Steele]

They're going to say, well, you got $100 million in your pockets. They're going to say, that's why you don't care.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, again. Well, I said it before I got that. That would be my response to that.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There's plenty of things that I've said that were controversial in some people's eyes long before I got paid. A matter of fact, I would ask people to look at my resume. Look at me as a columnist for the Philadelphia Inquiry. Look at me. Look at me. At Fox for CNNSI and espn. I've been speaking for years. This is not new. It's new to you to embrace it. It's you. It's new to you to accept the fact that I'm willing to do it. But I've been doing what I do. It's just that now I'm doing more of it because I have the freedom to do it, because I own my own platform, not just on YouTube, but I own my SiriusXM shows, which is,

[Sage Steele]

by the way, phenomenal. And I've always loved and respected your business acumen. And that is. That was a sick move. That was a beautiful thing. But I was coming off this conversation about strong men and protecting and leading, and they're silent on this issue.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Or they might with daughters, they might tackle it as individuals. Like, for example, as a father.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. You have that platform and you talk about very difficult things. This is the one thing that I actually believe would bring more people together. I said this from day one with women in my industry. If, if half of us sportscasters had stood up and said, you know what, as women now we're going to protect these women, we would not be in this position.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There's plenty of women that didn't just like this.

[Sage Steele]

The majority did not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Plenty of bandits.

[Sage Steele]

That's what I mean.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So in other words, Sage, what that means is those who are courageous enough to put themselves out on front street and tackle issues for the betterment of the whole of others are few and far between.

[Sage Steele]

Our job is also to try to do that. And I did it in a kind way for a long time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, you've done it.

[Sage Steele]

And then you just say screw you all, because I know I did. It was intentional. And it's like, at the end of the day, it's actually serious. It is a serious issue. And it is nothing to. It is nothing about being against a certain group of people. It's the opposite of that. I was born the year title nine kicked in, in 1972. There's been so many women who've sacrificed long before me, and then they are not only silent in many ways, they're actually turning against it for this one issue. So it is deeper. It is a deeper conversation. But at the end of the day, when there are people who are given these platforms, we don't have to do this in a divisive way. This is fact based, this is science based, and this is about our girls.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, if you remember, Sage, I told you this too, years ago. If everybody was you, you wouldn't be special a lot of times.

[Sage Steele]

Don't try to soften me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not trying to soften you. I'm telling you facts. You are big on accountability. You have your beliefs, your opinions, they're well founded. In fact, I get that part. But everybody ain't you. And everybody don't want to be that. Everybody don't want. There's a lot.

[Sage Steele]

Don't blame them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And so what I'm trying to say, it's like when folks come at me, what they don't realize is that you came to the wrong place to mess with somebody like me. Because I love what I do.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know what I'm saying? It's like I'm not going to tire out. I'm not going to wear down. It's like I'm just getting warmed up, you know? You don't understand. It's like you look and you see it's ESPN and it's this and it's that. And I've been doing this for years. No, I didn't have these platforms before. I didn't have, have this freedom before. I didn't have this latitude before. I'm not. I'm just getting started. I had dental surgery. I had to, from October. And something called cavitation at the undo root canal stuff on my right and left. I have been messing around with a wired mouth since October. I'm about to get stuff unleashed. They don't understand what's coming. They don't really know that I'm just getting warmed up. I'm just, I'm. They don't understand this is scary. They don't. They don't understand it. You know, I'm sitting there. Covid comes here a few years ago. I'm at 29.8% body fat, cholesterol level over 300A 1C level 0.1 point away from being a full blown diabetic. I'm in the emergency room on New Year's Eve. They're telling me if this steroid and this, this antibiotic don't work, we're gonna have to call your family. I mean, my sister smokes every day. She got Covid on Friday. She was fine. By Tuesday, I was in the emergency room in the hospital. Three separate trips. It was really, really bad to go from that to Dana White introducing me to Gary and for them to get my health right together. I owe them the world. I'm in the best shape I've been in. And Stephen A.

[Sage Steele]

When I saw you get out of that car today, it's like you. You look the best you've ever looked in the 20 years that I've known you. How old are you now?

[Stephen A. Smith]

58.

[Sage Steele]

Amazing that at 58. Yes, you're looking better than ever and feeling better.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm just getting started. It ain't nothing compared to summer.

[Sage Steele]

So you should run for president.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Then I'm like, I think I can win. I think I can win.

[Sage Steele]

Why?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because I care about what's in the best interest of the American people, not about myself. I know that sounds corny and all of that stuff, and I'm not trying to sound all altruistic or, you know, corny or anything like that, but I look at Capitol Hill and I see people there for themselves, not for America. And I see people that are scared to punch people in the face with common sense. You see, I don't have to agree. Agree with conservatism to say that conservative is right about that, about that issue, that point of view. That point of view. Now here, my side here with the liberals on this side, I might side with. I might be in the middle on this one. Let's go on a case by case basis. You know what I would spend money on if I was a government. If I was the President of the United States? You know where a lot of my money would come will go into. I'd want two people for every position, Democrat and Republican. Work it out. Tired of y' all sitting here playing games. Get your ass to work and come to me with a solution that works in the best interest of the American people and address both sides of the aisle. Because everyone can't get everything they want. We too damn spoiled. You understand? Let's. What do we want? We want peace in the streets. We want to be able to afford to afford our quality of life and have peace in the streets and to be pleasant with one another. That's what we want. Then live your life. Do what you gotta do. I don't give a damn who you are, what ethnicity you are, what your sexual orientation is. Well, I could care less. Live your life. I'm a live mine. But in the end, are you really prioritizing what's in the best interest of America or are you looking out for yourself? Too many politicians on Capitol Hill are doing the latter, and I think it's a problem. And, oh, by the way, like Sean Hannity was, because I know he was on the show last week and he was joking about, yeah, you promised me he's gonna come on Every month. I said, I'm serious. If I was the president, I would. Come on. I ain't scared of you. I wouldn't run from you. I tell you exactly what I do. You know why? Because you think he has to agree with you. No, he don't. What you have to do is be honest. Here's what my intent is. This is what I'm trying to do. Here's why. You can refute it all you want to, but if I'm the president, damn it, that's my call. That's my decision. This is how I feel, and that's why.

[Sage Steele]

But you're saying you're not going to do it because you don't want to let go of your money.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Damn right.

[Sage Steele]

So it's official. You're not running for president.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not running because they're telling me I'd have to give up my job just to run. If they told me you can't, you'd have to give up your job.

[Sage Steele]

But if you think you could win.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think. But I don't know.

[Sage Steele]

You just said, I. I think I can win. Very confident.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think I can win.

[Sage Steele]

Well, then take that shot.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I have a problem with Rubio. Rubio is be formidable.

[Sage Steele]

Heck, yeah, he would.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Rubio. I like Rubio.

[Sage Steele]

He's brilliant. I feel like he's made a comeback.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's the adult in the room. I think everybody else trying to be like Trump. I think Rubio, I think he's an adult in the room who has the credentials as a senator, as the Secretary of State.

[Sage Steele]

I think JD Vance as well. I think JD Vance would be a formidable opponent.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not a believer in J.D. vance. Why all? Because I think he wants to be Trump. I don't think he's his own man. I think he does what's politically expedient. I don't find Rubio to be that way. I find Rubio to be an adult in the room who would do what he thinks is in the best interest of America. Not for his little clique of people that he gets along with and stuff like that, at the expense of the American people.

[Sage Steele]

Do you think it's because of what he has already been through politically?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Rubio?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, I just think he's been out there longer, but I just think he knows better. Like, he's been there.

[Sage Steele]

He's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's experienced. He knows what he's dealing with when he's dealing with these senators. You know, you got. You got the senator. I forgot which one it was that Was like. I think it was Chris Murphy, if I remember correctly, Connecticut or whatever. But he was like, I would not have voted to confirm you had. I know. And Rubio looked at him and said, I consider that a compliment. You know, I don't blame him.

[Sage Steele]

He's amazing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's like, stop. You know what? This man is your colleague, your contemporary on the Senate. You know, he's a reputable individual who's earned his stripes, deserves to be the Secretary of State. Let's keep it a buck here. This. This is Marco Rubio that we're talking about here. Okay. The only thing that you could say about Marco Rubio with an insult, insulting voice is that Trump caught them, little Marco when they were running against one another in 2016. That's about it.

[Sage Steele]

Listen, he will take those shots when he can.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There is nothing about Rubio's credentials that anybody can question. He is qualified. I. I will openly admit I am not. I am far from qualified. But it don't take much to beat the Democrats.

[Sage Steele]

You're saying you're.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It don't take much to beat the Democrats.

[Sage Steele]

Saying a lot there. You're far from qualified. But you think you could win.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I do believe I could win.

[Sage Steele]

And you would run as a Democrat?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Hypothetically. Because now he's saying he's not going to do it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, let me backtrack.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure.

[Sage Steele]

Going back to 2024.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, sir.

[Sage Steele]

Because I feel like you wouldn't even have thought of this if it. Not if it had not been for how 2024 went.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

I saw you on my friend Dave Rubin's show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And you said he keeps lying about

[Stephen A. Smith]

beating me in basketball shootouts in his backyard, by the way. But we'll get to that another time.

[Sage Steele]

I have video.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He keeps lying about it. He takes me in the backyard and counts the ones he makes.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no. I. I have video of you congratulating him when he beat you in his backyard.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I gave it to him. This is yard.

[Sage Steele]

So he went from saying he's lying to saying, okay, I busted shoes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's his backyard. It's his backyard. I believe I beat him. I believe I beat him.

[Sage Steele]

Whatever you. Whatever you want to believe to make yourself feel better. Absolutely. Actually, he shoots really well for a white Jewish boy, doesn't he?

[Stephen A. Smith]

He got me the second time. I mean, the first time. But is it. That's true.

[Sage Steele]

Backtrack, backtrack.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's my guy.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. You went on his show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And you said that you voted for Kamala Harris.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And that you regretted it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And then you explained why you voted for her. And correct me if I'm wrong, because you didn't like how Trump handled himself, how he spoke, how he tweeted.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't like. I think that at times he acts like a belligerent child that provokes chaos and strips us as American citizens of the peace of mind that we need in order to be comfortable in America under his stewardship. I believe me personally, just so you know, just to make sure I'm clear about this, I am completely in, adamantly against one party rule. If you in the White House, I want the other party in the House or the Senate. I don't like total complete dominion on one side of the aisle. I'm just very, very fixated on that. I can't stand that. Okay. So for me, what I was thinking about with Kamala Harris, I know she, she wasn't primaried. I know that when she was primaried in 2020, she couldn't even make it to Iowa. Okay? I know all of that. I know that Joe Biden should have been stepped away and it was delayed because these people wanted Kamala to be the candidate and there was no way in hell it was going to happen unless he left when he left, as opposed to earlier where there could have been a primary. She would have had to compete against people in order that. Right. So I know all of that, but I also believe that she was the kind of person that if the power existed in one, one house of Congress, if not both, that she was somebody that you get to acquiesce and work across the aisle in order to get things done. That was my belief. And then when I saw how things were unfolding and how out in the clouds the Democratic Party was even after they lost the election, I said, this is no hope. I said, I don't know what the hell I was thinking about, believing that y' all would get it. Because you still don't get it. You really, really don't. Trump. You bring up the indictments, you bring up his behavior, you bring up all of these different things and America still said he's more normal than y' all and you still don't get it. And I thought you'd get it, but you didn't get it. So I lost all faith.

[Sage Steele]

And that's where it came from leading up to that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And the 107 days between when she took over and the election and then the years leading up to that moment where we all, anyone with a brain and eyes knew what was happening. And I think it was heartbreaking to watch. You know, I interviewed him on Joe Biden on SportsCenter, and I saw it then in 2021, right after he took office. And I was, from a human perspective, like, concerned. Shame on his wife forever. I'll always say that, by the way, because when people know that someone is decl. Declining and they don't protect them, it's disgusting to me. But anyway, from a political perspective, when you saw what was happening those three years leading, three and a half years leading up to that, and then Kamala Harris and what happened in those 107 days and some of the things going on the View.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The View.

[Sage Steele]

When she went on the View.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, got you. Yes, yes. That was a very bad moment.

[Sage Steele]

Bad moment.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That was a very, very bad moment.

[Sage Steele]

And you still pull the lever for Kamala Harris.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sage Steele]

Based on how Trump makes you feel.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because with Trump, first of all, you're the presidency. First of all, the ultimate thing is it's a statesmanship position. I'm one of those who believes Trump has debunked that because of the power that he wields, but for the most part, it's a statesmanship position. And really, both houses of Congress are pretty much running the country if they're doing their damn job. Trump, again, has debunked that because he wields a level of power we haven't seen a president wield in quite some time. He's a different beast.

[Sage Steele]

There's just.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No. There's just no doubt about that. For better or worse, it's just the truth. I wasn't looking at it that way with Kamala Harris. I knew that that wasn't going to be something that she would be able to attempt to pull off. So you have to remember that I'm the kind of person that I like the thing thought of our country being run by committee. I don't want not saying that it's an autocracy or a dictatorship. I'm not engaging in that kind of hyperbole like others, but I don't want any one person coming close to thinking that they can wield that kind of power and influence. You got a Congress and a Senate to answer to, and I knew that they would be able to compel her to do that, which would make the American people feel comfortable about whatever decision was made being made, because we're understanding that things are being run from a consensus perspective, as opposed to one person having dominion and compelling everybody to fall in line, or else Trump was the Latter. Trump was different in that regard. I wasn't comfortable with that because it's him. If it was Marco Rubio in there, I'd have voted for Marco Rubio in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have hesitated. I would have voted for Nikki Haley in a heartbeat, without question. So, again, what the problem is.

[Sage Steele]

But when your choices are Kamala Harris with what she did and didn't do, and Donald Trump when, you know, see, here's the thing for me, and it's not always been easy, and I promise you this, I think I'm proud of separating personality and feelings and crazy tweets from policy because it comes down to leadership and frankly, comes down to balls to make difficult decisions at times that are the. In the best interest for our country. One of my issues, I think with. And I love that you've been so public with everything.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sure.

[Sage Steele]

I felt like, from a viewer's perspective and a listener's perspective, you were super critical of the Democrats after they lost that election, after Kamal lost that election. And I'm like, where was that before I saw you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I saw your interview with that. I was very disappointed in your work when you said that. And I'm gonna tell you what. I'm gonna tell you why. I said, I thought my girl watched me.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I didn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I thought Sage watched me. Who was the person that went on the air a year and a half and said, we need a new president. Biden's gotta go. That was me.

[Sage Steele]

On what? On your show?

[Stephen A. Smith]

On my show.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He gotta go. I said, we need a new president. He's done. He ain't gonna make it.

[Sage Steele]

And then, you know that Kamala Harris, everybody covered up for him. And you still vote for her.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, absolutely. I felt that they were. I felt that they were covering up for her or for him. No doubt.

[Sage Steele]

She was certainly part of that topic.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But again, I just told you how I think about in terms of how our government should be run by consensus. And I also thought about the chaos that Trump would bring because these people hate him so much that we would be preoccupied with them going after him instead of the country being run. So all of those things play the role in me making my decision. I understand the skepticism that you or any other conservative will feel, but what you want me to do, lie to you? I'm telling you what I was feeling. So I see what.

[Sage Steele]

I'm just saying that I. It felt like. And I did not see that a year and a half before the election, you're saying. Absolutely. It was after that it was you. It was no holds barred and you crushed them because they deserve to be crushed. And by the way, I love it when you are equal. You're an equal opportunity employer when it comes to crushing Republicans and Democrats. And I think you're so fair with that. I honestly do. But it felt like it was after the election and it was really easy to do it then to jump on that bandwagon because they were stupid to think they could have pulled off what they pulled off and that the American people weren't watching this entire time. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. And the Barack Obama thing in Pittsburgh right before the election and he is scolding black men for that votes lose the election.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You didn't see me call. I did see you do that. I most certainly did.

[Sage Steele]

But that's my point is that all

[Stephen A. Smith]

of those things right on the spot,

[Sage Steele]

you did all of those things combined and you still went down that. And I'm like, no, but he's so influential. People look up to you. And I feel like you could have had more of an ends up. It didn't matter. My point is some. And see, I'm going to 12 different points, but I feel, and tell me if I'm wrong, that there is still a pull in you to represent the black community, to represent your sisters, to represent your family and it would pain them if you voted Republican. Correct.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay. Okay. First of all, that's fair. And people need to be able to admit that that pull that exists, it's human. Right? But you need to be fair in comprehending why somebody in my position might feel that that way. Okay. We live in a binary system. We got two choices. So let's go down, let's go to the other side. So we have a guy in Trump. Okay. And I'm not going to get into all the legal stuff that he's been in because I think half of it was bogus and it was clearly a witch hunt. Now, he ain't innocent, but it also wasn't as bad as they tried to proclaim it to be in my estimation. I think they were after him because they were wanted to keep him out of the White House, period. Okay. But there are other things. So let's fast forward to now he's in the presidency. Well, what fears did we have? Okay, the tariff wars. We don't know how effective that's going to be. We hope, but we don't know. So we can't judge him accordingly. But in the same breath, I did a show yesterday where it Shows that he personally, meaning him in his family name, they personally pocketed over 1 1.4 billion since he's returned to office. Okay, so you, you taking care of yourself when the whole thing went on in Gaza and you assisted Israel bombing. You talking about building a hotel in Gaza. This is a religious war we're talking about going on over there. You talking about building a hotel in Gaza? Okay, you know when we talk about Vladimir Putin. No, I'm not going to Russian collusion route, because we all know, we all know about that. And we know what the Democrats, what role the Democrats played in full men and all that. We got that part. But the flip side to it is that when you see what's transpiring with Russia and Ukraine and you see that you've been slow to hold Putin to account for some of the decisions that he's made, these are question marks. When you talk about black people and we talk about, you know, we talking about the shutdown, we're talking about people losing their jobs, being furloughed or furloughed or, or not getting paid, and thousands of women are losing their jobs, they're unemployed, a lot of them being black women, federal employees, stuff like that. That's a problem. When you're talking about the Smithsonian museum and how you want to have a say in what they available to us in terms of books that we read and we have access to and stuff like that, and black culture and black history and having some say as to what's being disseminated to us and what's not. All of these kind of things are things that give you cause to pause, that makes you say, as an individual who happens to be black, like, wait a minute now, I'm not down for that.

[Sage Steele]

And how do you take all those issues? Take all those issues, how have the Democrats been better in any one of those issues?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I didn't say. I didn't say they were. What I'm saying is if you don't pose that kind of problem for me, if you don't, I'm not thinking about those issues with you. I'm thinking about the issue with the person that's causing me that problem. Because that's what I'm thinking about at that particular moment in time. Now, Sage might come along and Sage might say, steven, have you seen our economy? Have you seen the gas prices? Have you seen affordability? What's wrong with you? And I'd be like, damn, that's a good point. Have you seen our borders? They trying to say there's no border crisis. But 12 million people cross the border legally, Steven. And they trying to say there's no border crisis. Yeah, so I'm looking at it. I'm going like.

[Sage Steele]

My point is, has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about the pull from the black community that might prevent you or someone else.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But that's what I am talking about.

[Sage Steele]

From voting a certain way. Based on. Based on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But that's what I'm saying. I'm saying to you, Sage is my sister. And she says, how could you do that? Do you not see what this man is trying to do? I don't want the emotion.

[Sage Steele]

I don't say it like that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, I'm not talking about you. I'm saying that. I'm saying my sisters. I'm like my sisters or sisters that I know. How could you do that, Steven?

[Sage Steele]

And you explain to them, wait a

[Stephen A. Smith]

minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Because I'm making. I have this career. I've been blessed and fortunate enough to achieve what I've achieved. Either scenario, I'm fine. But they're saying they're not.

[Sage Steele]

That's how it came to a vote. Because of your sister.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, no, no, no. I didn't say I change it because I was never going to vote for Trump. I vote for a lot of Republicans. I wouldn't vote for him because I don't like how he acts. And I've told them that. But my point to you is not

[Sage Steele]

based on what's better for the country because you don't like how he acts.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, wait a minute. Because I'm thinking that again, how much of an effect are you going to have on the country if both houses of Congress are against you to hold you in check? Because I'm the type of person that I voted for, Kamala, and I vote Republican across the board to make sure that checks and balances exist.

[Sage Steele]

I expect that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So that's what I'm saying. It's like. But the leader, the guy that's in the White House or the girl that's in the White House, I gotta look at you and know you're a statesman. I can have faith that you're looking out for the best interests.

[Sage Steele]

And Kamala Harris was a statesman.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I felt.

[Sage Steele]

I felt woman, whatever.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I felt that she, in terms of that specific category, being reasonable, being somebody that could be talked to, not being a bully, not be. No, come on, Sage, be nice. I mean, the woman is the former attorney general. I'm just saying.

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

Come on. I'm just kidding.

[Sage Steele]

I'm just saying, when it came crunch time, you would have crushed her in that debate. Absolutely. In that primary getting back, I think

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'd take them all.

[Sage Steele]

Other than that Rubio is a good way to get out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Other than Rubio. Other than. I think I take them all. I really do.

[Sage Steele]

My point is, I. This is what my father and I talked about, and it goes deep. Okay. In 2008, I was frustrated with my. And I shouldn't say all this is your platform. I know I need to get you some food at some point, but Because I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. To my. My grandmother would be 104 right now. Right. What's the year? 106. She was born in 1920.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow.

[Sage Steele]

My black grandmother, Mildred Steele.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

From Brooklyn.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

What she witnessed and went through and endured is something I will never understand.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

So when she voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and in 2012, it was based on race.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

Solely. I didn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Same here. I'm not a politician of millions.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We never had a black president before.

[Sage Steele]

Correct.

[Stephen A. Smith]

White men had a mess up all of these decades, all these centuries. Let's see what a black man does in that position.

[Sage Steele]

You're damn right I respected it. Especially based on what happened long before you and I were on this planet Earth. And I didn't like it, but I respected it. And when I say I didn't like it, it's only because I was taught that it isn't about the color of our skin. It's about the content of our character. And it is so much deeper than this. If we are asked to be treated equally and for the world to no longer be divided by race, but then we're gonna vote based on race. That's the hypocrisy. With that said, I understood because I hadn't lived that life.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's fair.

[Sage Steele]

And so my point is, I understand. And then you use your brain. And in 2012, when you and I talked with your friend Jeff on the phone, you're like, okay, we had a black president, biracial. He doesn't want to say that. Black president for four years just based on race. Is the black community in a better position? And the answer was very clearly to me, no.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

And I think that that's also why you were struggling in 2020.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But that's for me. Yes. But that's according to you and I.

[Sage Steele]

But we have to base on ourselves.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Everybody's gonna vote, but not necessarily because what I'm Trying you to tell. Tell you is when I talk to you about family and friends who are not as fortunate as I am.

[Sage Steele]

Correct.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Who have. Who are not as affluent as I have been blessed and fortunate enough to be, I do have an obligation, I feel, to take them into consideration at the very least when I make a decision. So whether we agree or disagree, that's where the premise comes. When you talk about your grandmother, you know, God rest us, wonderful soul. Right? Let's understand something. You bring up something about character. Ask yourself this question. If you are a black person out there listening to say, still bring up an issue about character and you support Trump, how you think people supposed to feel? Oh, we gonna sit here and act like, oh, he just. He's just a paragon of virtue now? I'm not, I'm not. Listen, I'm not trying to engage in condemning the president. What's done is done. I don't get into all of that. I'm talking about his policies and all that stuff. But the point is, in terms of his behavior, we ain't gonna sit here and act like this man's a paragon of virtue.

[Sage Steele]

Listen, I have taken every politician. If you are a politician, I'm questioning your character. Okay? Period.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Sage Steele]

So you take it. And it is the lesser of the evil to me because there's so many character issues.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But policy wise, you can point to him having an advantage over Kamala Harris.

[Sage Steele]

And that's all it was because I

[Stephen A. Smith]

had to a character issue. I don't care how bad you think she is, she ain't been Trump.

[Sage Steele]

Now, listen, my point is content of character versus you know who I'm quoting there. I'm not going literal on character because every single one of us in this room and across America has some character issues, things they'd probably like to change. Fine. I have had to. If I'm. There's so many people are like, well, these shitty choices. So I'm not gonna vote. I'm just gonna stay home. Okay, stop. That's the response. Too many people who have died for us to have that right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm an adamant voting. You vote.

[Sage Steele]

So you take what's here and you choose what is best for not just your family, for America, based on some of the basic issues. Safety, right? Protection, the borders. All of these things that I think are pretty basic issues that people should have a little bit of knowledge on. So is there anybody perfect besides you to run? Of course not. But at the end. But at the end of the day, if we are basing it See, if we are basing it on race, it's not the right thing. Even though, guess what? I was so happy I didn't vote for Barack Obama either time. But I was so happy to see the opportunity that he had and his beautiful family on that stage in Chicago. I absolutely was.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Talk about that for a second.

[Sage Steele]

He disappointed me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let's talk about that for a second. First of all, he shouldn't have disappointed you. You didn't vote for him, so you shouldn't have disappointed you.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no. Because whoever's in office, I will support, okay? That is our duty as Americans.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, But I'm just saying you did both. Right?

[Sage Steele]

And black America was no better off with him in office.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you. Let me say this, let me say this to you. Was Barack Obama perfect? No. Far from it.

[Sage Steele]

No. I'm not asking for perfection.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got that part. Okay. And whatever you feel about him, you feel about him. And conservatives have a right to feel that way about him. There were certain things that I didn't like about him. There are certain things I did like about him. But here's the bottom line. I unapologet and I told Sean Hannity this. I unapologetically, it was never an issue. And I respected John McCain. I knew John McCain a little bit, communicated with him, God rest his soul. He came on my show, Quite frankly, on ESPN2 when he was there, and we kept in touch and I had profound respect for John McCain. But I let it be known from day one, there's no way a black man is going to be the nominee for the presidency of the United States. And I wasn't gonna vote for him.

[Sage Steele]

Round one, then round two.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Round one. Round one. Exactly. Round one, not round two.

[Sage Steele]

Fine.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I did vote for round two.

[Sage Steele]

But you hesitated.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I did hesitate because I didn't like some of the things that I was seeing. Having said that, here's my point. So we go to Sage, right? And this is important to point out. This is important to point out because you're saying not based on race. Now, going off about racism, prejudice and its existence in most instances is futile. Let's get that out the way first. Because first of all, I firmly believe that it's not what it once was. And even when it is that way, dammit, you got a job to overcome it. You gonna let it stop. You don't even focus. Move forward.

[Sage Steele]

Can I, can I insert this right here? Because one of my heroes is Dr. Benjamin Carson, okay? And what he has. You read his book.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I have not.

[Sage Steele]

What he has done, what he chose to overcome from abject poverty growing up in Detroit, a single mother literally sleeping on the floor, rats and mice and all of the worst possible things, and had every reason, every excuse to say, well, look. Look at the hands that my single black mom was dealt. And look what he has turned out to do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

Is he everybody. No, I'm just saying. But that the opportunities.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's fine. That's fine. And listen, to a significantly lesser degree, we could say the same thing about me, where I came from, and look what I've been blessed and fortunate to achieve. But I was blessed and fortunate enough to have the greatest mama God could ever created in my mind. And he blessed me with a great mom. But there was also stuff like affirmative action and things of that nature that helped me along the way to give me a helping hand, to give me a boost that I need. I took it and ran with it and made sure I made the most of my opportunities, Right? And some people, and we understand that. But the point is, that doesn't mean that you don't reach back and extend a helping hand for Thomas. No, of course I know you're not saying that. What I'm saying to you is this, though. I understand that as a black man, and I'm not looking at white America and saying because of history, all of you are this way. Now, it's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that America, the fabric of our society and how things have been constructed. I often use this analogy. When white folks catch a cold, black folks catch pneumonia. It's always worse for us. It's always going to be that way.

[Sage Steele]

Now, do you want reparations, too?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nope. I don't. I don't like.

[Sage Steele]

Like.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't. I don't like.

[Sage Steele]

What's the line here?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't. No, no. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm. It's not about money. It's not about anything. It's about talking about a mentality that plagues a people that have been victimized to some degree in this country to a point where there's a level of compassion and empathy that should be absorbed and understood enough for us to appreciate the fact that it's a bit different for us. So when sage steel comes along, right, and you talk about your wonderful grandmother and you talk about, you know, obviously, you know, you're mixed because you had a white and a black parent and stuff like that. The point is, history said that if you had a speck of black skin, blackness in your body, you are a black woman. You are a black person, and they treated you like that. And I'm saying so now, acknowledging that and the challenges that emanate from it historically is something we're supposed to ignore. I don't do that. I can be sensitive to it while still understanding that a vast majority of your points are right on point. Because what you're saying is, look, this is what is you going to sit there and stand still or you're going to adapt and overcome the challenges that. That are. That you're faced with in life and propel yourself to the heights that you were meant to propel yourself to. That's what you're saying. What I'm saying in the process is sometimes for some people, it's harder than it is for others. There's a level of sensitivity we can have for that without engaging in condemnation. So finally, and I think the condemnation part from the black conservatives and Officer Tatum wants to talk to me, and I'm going to talk to him, and I'm talking to you. And so I think the condemnation that emanates from black conservatives is because, unfortunately, too many black folks on the liberal side have denigrated y' all for what you feel and what you believe and

[Sage Steele]

not respect that y' all maybe used to be personal. No, I think that. I think that it's a. It's a tired excuse at this point. What can white people do today that black people cannot do?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I wouldn't say there's anything that we can't do. I'm saying that the road. I give you a perfect example. We talked about me. I heard you talking about me. I think it was on Patrick Bet David's show one day, and you were talking about my new contract and all of this other stuff, Right? And you were applauding me because I was watching, because there were others that got paid before me.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, what you said about McAfee, and you were saying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And you were saying to me, steven's watching. You see what I'm saying? Well, yeah, McAfee. Right. I think it was somebody else, too, but I know it's definitely McAfee. Other people might have resented McAfee. I couldn't have been happier.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I know I couldn't have been

[Stephen A. Smith]

happier because I knew.

[Sage Steele]

So context, McAfee got paid 18 million.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The precedent had been set. So what I'm saying is, what did that teach me? It taught me what I always knew, in more instances than not, in the United States of America. If you a brother and you Gonna get yours. Somebody else got it first. The precedent ain't gonna be set by you. It's usually gonna be set by somebody else. It doesn't mean you can't get it. It just means that there's a process that has to be maneuvered through before it arrives on your doorstep.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. I knew Patrick Mahomes. He's the first half a billion dollar player in the NFL.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Sage Steele]

LeBron James, you can go down the line. Michael Jordan.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, you're talking about amount. I'm talking about the affluence.

[Sage Steele]

I'm saying they were the first.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, no, I'm saying. I'm talking about the affluence. In other words, there was Glenn Big Dog Robinson got $69 million in the 90s, Allen Iverson signed for over $100 million. Kevin Garnett signed for $126 million. Before LeBron got into the league, there were people that were getting paid. Sage. That paved the way for LeBron to ultimately get paid. But before them, it was Larry Bird and there was a few others. I'm saying to you, America, by and large, basically says, we'll take care of you now, but we gonna take care of us. And I'm good with it. I understand it.

[Sage Steele]

So when you came on and I think what I said on PBD, who lives right over here, was. What was it? McAfee got paid his $18 million a year contract. He came in and he just cleaned up, and Stephen A. Had this look on his face.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I couldn't be happy. I sat there with a smile on my face the whole time because I'm like, okay, that's.

[Sage Steele]

And you said, my contract's coming up. Whatever it is. I'm paraphrasing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You stole me.

[Sage Steele]

And you said, as a black man, I have to work. We have to work so much harder to get that. And we'll see.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. And I meant it.

[Sage Steele]

Do you think you had to make that about race?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I didn't.

[Sage Steele]

Well, because you are Stephen A. Period.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Gotcha.

[Sage Steele]

With all the talent in the world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Gotcha.

[Sage Steele]

With the credibility, with the respect, with basically the keys to the castle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Two things.

[Sage Steele]

And you, regardless of whether or not you're going to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I heard Patrick Bet Davis response to that, too. He didn't like my response. I love him dearly. He's like a brother to me. I don't give a damn that he didn't like it. I don't care that you didn't like it. I said it, I meant it, and I ain't backing up for it, in

[Sage Steele]

hindsight, wasn't necessary to make it about race.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't believe I made it about race.

[Sage Steele]

You did by saying, as a black

[Stephen A. Smith]

man, I believe I'm stating a point of fact at that moment in time, what happened is this. First of all, to Pat McAfee, I can look in the camera and say that, thank you so much. I deeply appreciate it. And I want to say this, too. That man, Pat McAfee, has never, never once did he fail to tell me, go get that money. He would whisper in my ear, go get that money.

[Sage Steele]

He's a great teammate.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He would. He would look. He would look me and look me and go right in my ear. He'd give me a pound of hug. He's like, go get that money. That's exactly what he told me. And I deeply appreciate it. I'm always good with you.

[Sage Steele]

And by the way, this reversed, you'd have done the same thing to him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely. I'm always good with him for that. Thank you so much. But what I'm saying to you is that I was pointing out fact. Sage, you said it. I bust my ass. I worked hard. I did this, I did this, I did that. It never happened until he got it. So my point to you is that the facts proved I was correct. I never said I couldn't get it. What I said was, when we doing business, for example, don't you find yourself with agents and stuff like that? You the one doing all the damn work. You get this. This money, right? And they get 10% of your money for negotiated contracts for two weeks. Not that that happened because it was much longer. But what I'm saying is the system is designed to ensure that people get paid. All I was doing was pointing out, somebody gonna get paid off me. I'm gonna make sure I get paid. Get paid off me, too. That's it. That doesn't mean that I'm sitting back on like this. Oh, man, these damn people, they race. No. The system is designed to ensure we want to get as much for the least amount possible for as long as we could possibly get away with it. That's business. And I was saying, as a black dude, this is how it works. So how do you maneuver through this terrain? That's how McAfee. Wow. There we go. That was the. That right there. That was the end I was looking for. And it wasn't just him. It was just him. We saw a bunch of people in the industry. What you think Tom Brady got?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Troy Aikman and All these other people, Joe Buck and all these, they all deserve every penny. I love all of them. All of them. But my point was the system said we gonna take care of them. So I was like, that's what had to happen for me to get taken care of.

[Sage Steele]

It couldn't have been timing when your contract was up versus his.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You could say it could have been. I'm telling you what my experience has been. I never got paid to tell that.

[Sage Steele]

It was brilliant. And I think when I said that on pbd, I said that too, because I saw you say it and then I rewound it and I saw that smile right there, and I'm like, he is a freaking genius. And that journey, Stephen, a coming back to ESPN in 2012 and the build to get there, right? Like, it is different for Matt. It's different for everybody. I could have said that too, back in the day too. But at the end of the day, the journey is the journey. And now what you have done. Is there a difference between being an entertainer, a rich man with a great job, and a brand?

[Stephen A. Smith]

If you had asked me this question six months ago, I would not have known the answer. I think I do now. And I definitely think there is a difference between the entertainment, the journalist part, and the brand. The former is about performance. Go on there, do your job, and

[Sage Steele]

nobody does it like you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The brand is about building and it's about sustainability. If you don't sustain something, it ain't a brand. If you haven't established an identity that can be sustained, it's not a brand. And here's the other part about it. It's impossible to do alone. You can't do it by yourself. I need everybody that I got up in here. My assistant Sumatra sitting over there, that's my right hand. You want something from me, you got to go through her. Everybody knows my publicist, Solange best in the business. Lover to death. That's my other right hand. They guard me. I don't guard them. They guard me. They guard me as well as my big boy here. Need them. Can't do it without them. Because as you're building, you can have all the answers. But where's the execution? You can have the execution, but how long can you sustain it? It. You can sustain it, but how do you know what's working and what isn't working? And how interested are you going to be in continuing to do it when you have all of these challenges surrounding you, pulling you in different directions? Because the purpose is to distract you, just to make you fall. I know that there are people out there. There are people that sat right in front of you, want me to fail, want me to fall on my feet face. You don't hear me talking about them because they're irrelevant. They don't matter. They're insignificant because they want to be where I'm at. Why do they want to be where I'm at? Because what I have, I have because of the people that I surround myself with, who help me build. Now ESPN has helped me build my boss. I mean, Jimmy Pitaro, Dave Roberts, Burt Magnus. They've been great to me. They've been great to me. It's like, there's very few people on the planet that can look at their bosses and genuinely say they have affection for their bosses the way I have affection for my bosses. Because the challenges that most people face, I don't face. I can go to them and talk to them about anything. Yo, y', all, I know you feel this way, but this is how I feel. I need to do this. They may not like it, but all they cared about was that I gave them a heads up that I was a team player and I don't blindside them. And they know where I stand because they can prepare accordingly because they're not going to always agree with what I do. But sometimes you got to be. You can be for the company, and sometimes you got to be for you.

[Sage Steele]

For you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got to be for you. And if you lose, you, the company don't matter because the company don't have you because you lost yourself. So what good is that going to do? These are the kind of things, when it comes to differentiating between the brand and being a performer that come into play because they're two diametrically opposite things.

[Sage Steele]

They are. But you're blessed but dependent on each other now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And I'm blessed because I've gotten to witness a true evolution.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

From when I started in 2007. You left in 2009, you came back and there were tough times that you pushed through. And I don't know what those moments were when you were off camera and at home and wondering. And maybe that was the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me tell you something. I gotta tell you something. I gotta tell you something while the cameras are rolling. Cause I know we gonna finish up soon. Let me tell you something. Never said this to you. You know, again, I'm not some die hard conservative. And you've always been good with me and I got a lot of love for you, even when I've disagreed with you. I could care less. But you will never know what you've meant to me. My mother dies, and everybody knows. I was devastated. And we buried her. And my sisters looked at me and said, so when you going back to work? What are you talking about? I'm going back to work. And it was like, what the hell you mean you got a job to finish? What would Mommy say? Mommy would say, go back to work. And I went back to work the next day. And it was in Cleveland. It was Cleveland and Golden State.

[Sage Steele]

Yep.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Dr. Michael Eric Dyson was there. The late Reverend Jesse Jackson, God rest his soul, was there in Sage Steele. And they came up to me. Chris Broussard was there. And everybody just gave me a hug. And you gave me a hug, and you held onto me real tight. And you almost started crying because you saw that I was fighting back tears because I was really, really going through it. And I remember that night. I remember Kevin Durant's mom at the door waiting for me just to give me a hug, to tell me that the NBA moms and her, they love me so much. They know what I'm going through because I was really, really, really hurting. And the only reason I didn't break down and cry was because y' all were there. And I never forgot it as long as I live. We live in a world. Pundits, commentators, all of this other stuff, and people, you're giving your takes and you're hardcore with it, and you want to be as honest and authentic as you can possibly be. But, dammit, we human. And I'm here to tell you right now, when I tell you the pain that I was in that day, inside that arena, I was in no condition to work. I was in no condition to be around. And if it wasn't for y' all coming up to me and basically giving me a group hug and surrounding me because y' all all saw me about to break down. And I know, as I'm telling you now, you remember that, that moment, it was like, it doesn't matter. You know, Sage, you know, she said this about politics or, you know, when I cussed out old boy, she was disappointed in me. And please, I'm like, she was right. Okay? It doesn't. That doesn't minimize what the people that I care about mean to me when I can point to a moment for them being there for me like that. And there was a lot of people that weren't there. And I give the industry credit. Nobody bothered me. I want to applaud the industry. I was vulnerable. Anything could have set me off. And even the most evil amongst us left me alone. And I really am grateful to that to this very day. But you, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Chris Broussard, Kevin Durant's mama. I can't say enough. And I will never be able to say enough about what y' all meant to me that night and how it has stayed with me forever. I'll never forget it as long as I live. So thank you.

[Sage Steele]

There is zero need to thank me, because it's so much bigger than what we do for a living. Yeah, like, that's the fun part, and that's the blessing of it. But if we forget the humanity. Yeah, we're screwed. Some of us already have. And I refuse. Sometimes it'd be easier when you just want to be mad at somebody with good reason. Maybe. But we can't do that. I remember being mad at you, though, for being there. I didn't want you to come. I was like, what are you doing?

[Stephen A. Smith]

My sisters made me come because they knew.

[Sage Steele]

They know you, and they knew what your mom. Yes. Would say. But I wanted you to breathe. I wanted you to. To grieve and to be in your fields, because it's okay. Because then if you don't, then it's gonna come back. And I just. You're so strong and so tough, and you're always there to say yes to the shows, even when you don't want to do it. You know, the eighth Sports center hit on the day of the day at the NBA Finals, and you always say yes. And I just wanted you at that moment. And still sometimes, believe it or not, for you to be like, no, I'm okay. It's my time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But my sisters wanted me there because of y'. All.

[Sage Steele]

They knew.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They knew. You see, I didn't know that they knew that. And that's what hit me. It's not that I don't have friends and people who care about me, but I didn't know it was going to be like that. I didn't know I could count on one hand the amount of times I've cried in my life. And I almost broke down and cried in the arena because it was just. I just didn't need to be there. I was in no control to work, and y' all rescued me that night, and I was fine for the rest of the finals, but it just. It meant the world to me that y' all picked up. Y' all was like, he. He needs us. He don't need to be there. Cause I'M not one that would say, I need you.

[Sage Steele]

You know, you would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I wouldn't do that.

[Sage Steele]

You would never. But I hope you also can look at that moment and appreciate in your quiet moments, the strength that that took because of all people in your life to leave this earth.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

That's the one person.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And you picked yourself up somehow. And when the light turned on, Stephen A. Was there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I remember the day, of course, the moment and the segment. And trying to keep my mind on basketball.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Who cares? Even though we care, we don't care when it comes to this. And, like, look at this, man. And I don't think it was my best segment because I was focused on something that's so much more important. And that's why. Damn you. That's why this means a lot.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And we might not always agree.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're not gonna always disagree. Me and you.

[Sage Steele]

We don't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're not gonna always agree. Who cares?

[Sage Steele]

But that's the beautiful part, is that that doesn't matter. What matters is the human moments. And I hope that people can see this and see, I don't know, we can exist and we can coexist and support each other in their tough moments and their crazy moments. You've always been that for me, even when I didn't understand it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm gonna always be that. Yeah. I'm your friend.

[Sage Steele]

I know this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm gonna always be doing that. It don't matter. I don't give a damn how many disagreements we have. That's what friendship is. That's what love is. And people who walk away from you and denigrate you because they disagree with opposition. They were never there to begin with. I can't tell you how many friends I've lost over what they perceive my political views to be. And they don't. It's heartbreaking, and it's heartbreaking. But they don't realize you did me a favor. I didn't know that our friendship was that fragile that you would turn against me and denigrate me like that just because you think we disagree on a particular issue. Kick rocks. Go to hell. Get out my life. I don't want to see you or talk to you ever again. So me personally, Sage Steele, has gone through a lot in life where there are people who have turned their back on her because they disagree with you. I'm here to tell you, I disagree with you half the time. And guess what? It don't matter. It ain't gonna stop me from being Your friend.

[Sage Steele]

And I love you. And I love you for it. And I'll share this because I think you'll agree. One of my First Times on SportsCenter in 2007, I was with a female co host, who I will name later, who made a remark on air like, it was ugly. It was intentional. I mean, it was very obvious. But there were, you know, there were no checks and balances, and I was just happy to be there. And I was driving home, and my mom called, and I was like, mom, why would. Like, I've looked up to this woman for years. She'd been there a lot longer than me. Like, what is that? What did I do? And she's like, sweetheart, this has nothing to do with you. You were there. But when people do that and lash out, it's something in them that it's making them feel better to try to bring you down or hurt you in that moment. So when we can step back and realize it's not about us, and it took me a long time, that's actually a real blessing. And then you need to. In my book, you got to pray for them. And that's not always easy either. But it is actually not about me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But at the end of the day, Stephen, I mean, it just like what you said. I wouldn't change anything. It took me being slapped upside the head. Like, wait, I thought you were my friend. I thought I helped you through the situation. I was there. And so our circles get smaller, and that is a blessing. And then when you look around this room and you see your team and your people that will be there if you went broke tomorrow, which is impossible, but if you did, they will love you. This doesn't matter to them because they love you as the human being and the father and the brother and the son and the leader. And that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's an incredibly eloquent way of putting things. I'll put it simpler. Some people ain't shit, and you just gotta know when they ain't shit.

[Sage Steele]

And now we know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You understand? And then. But here's the beauty of elevates you. It elevates the people around you. Sometimes I don't look at them when I tell you the love that I have for Sumatra and juvie. I mean, they work for me. I'm their boss, sure, but they're family to me. So much so that anybody that tries to act like they're not family has to go, because that's how much they mean to me. That's the level of trust I have with them because they've earned it. I ain't give it to them, they've earned it. You know, juvie's special because I lost my brother. Died in a car accident. 1992, Texas 14, 15 people in the van. He sleep while others are driving, while somebody else is driving. Something cut in front of them. They swerve, turn violently. Van flips over. 14:50 People in the van. He's the only one that died. My only brother. Then I got him. So when you see somebody that's in your life that he work for you, but every way he talk to you, and he doesn't talk to me like I employ him, he talks to me like I'm his brother. You understand what I'm saying? So it's like, then you start thinking about like, I've got great, great friends. I got guys you've never met. My man Money Mark, my man Cardell and others, they go to the end of the earth for me, but they also hold me accountable because they love me. And you got somebody like Sumatra, just like my guardian angel, everything goes through her. And then I luck up and I get somebody like Solange as my publicist and my communications director. And she's wonderful, she's like family, you know, it's like, you don't buy this stuff, you know, when you, you see that, all of a sudden you realize, like, I'm pretty well off. Much, much better than most of the damn cynics and critics. They wish they were me. And it ain't because of the money. It's because of the love that I have in my life and how good I feel about life. Because I have what they don't and they know it. And so you know that. And friends along the way, like yourself and others, remember, we not going to agree on politics all the time. We're going to have our differences. I'm going to look at you sometimes, say what? Girl, what are you thinking? That don't make no damn sense. We gonna argue whatever. But what will never happen is all of a sudden I take a view and I say, okay, that's a nice. Is to castigate you and to abandon you as your friend then I never was to begin with. And I'm happy for you because you're now at a place in life where you realize that's exactly true. And you know how to weed all of these sorry ass no good bastards out of your life and to keep the people around that are really, really important and really, really matter.

[Sage Steele]

But it takes going through it to understand it and to fully appreciate them. I love your team. I love that they love you in that way. And that's. That's the beauty of it. Thank you for always having my back again, even when I didn't know it or probably fully appreciate it. I was in it for taking the time today, but most importantly, for never changing and for being honest, no matter what. We need more of you. I guess I would vote for you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You would? You would? You would. But that would be out of love. It would be out of love because of. It would be out of love. It wouldn't be out of my politics.

[Sage Steele]

It might.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It wouldn't be.

[Sage Steele]

It might because I am more in the middle than people would like to believe. And we can continue that later.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's definitely fair. We can have that conversation later on.

[Sage Steele]

It absolutely is. You got to go issue by issue, but to me, it means the world that I got to see your face again, live and in person, not just on tv, but to hear, I think, what is the most important part of Stephen A. Smith? Not his talent, not his skill set, not all of his jobs, not his fame, not his money, but his heart as a leader and a teammate and a father and a friend. So I love you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Love you, too.

[Sage Steele]

And I'm done crying. And I hate you for making me cry in my own house.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not my fault. I didn't do it. My day.