Who is Vivek Ramaswamy? | The Sage Steele Show | EP 65

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sage Steele Show | EP 65: Vivek Ramaswamy

Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Vivek Ramaswamy
Release Date: July 23, 2025
Duration: Approximately 88 minutes

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1. Introduction and Personal Connection

Sage Steele opens the episode by sharing her personal experiences with Vivek Ramaswamy, highlighting his enthusiasm and brilliance. She recounts two instances from the previous fall: sitting next to him at an Ohio State vs. Penn State game where Vivek's passion for the Buckeyes was evident, and attending UFC 309 in New York City post-election.

[00:00] Sage Steele: "Every time I'm around Vivek, every time I talk to him, you're reminded of his brilliance."

She emphasizes the multifaceted nature of the conversation, blending politics with personal growth, family life, and business achievements.

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2. Early Morning Routines and Personal Habits

The conversation shifts to personal habits, with Sage joking about her sock obsession and Vivek sharing his preference for vibrant colors.

[02:10] Sage Steele: "I come with mine... I won't make you wear polka dot socks. Cause that's not very Vivek."

They delve into Vivek's athletic background, particularly his high school tennis experience, revealing his competitive nature and adaptability on the court.

[03:28] Vivaek Ramaswamy: "But not at a level that would be the greatest."

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3. Political Campaigns and Public Perception

Vivek discusses his candidacy for governor of Ohio and his previous presidential run. He reflects on his debate performance in Milwaukee, acknowledging that his approach may have overshadowed his leadership qualities.

[08:10] Vivek Ramaswamy: "I'm running to lead... I was trying to unleash mode."

He expresses regret that his debate persona may have prevented the public from fully understanding him as a leader rather than just a competitor.

[09:06] Sage Steele: "Well, they were coming after you, too."

Vivek emphasizes the importance of focus and how his initial campaign distractions impacted his effectiveness.

[05:03] Sage Steele: "Are you going to do that, like, on the road? Constantly."

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4. Personal Growth and Mindfulness

The discussion transitions to personal development, with Sage highlighting the importance of the human element in politics. Vivek shares his journey towards mindfulness, meditation, and maintaining a work-life harmony.

[22:48] Vivek Ramaswamy: "I've been getting more in touch with theology and, and faith and in my faith and religion."

He acknowledges the challenges of maintaining focus and presence, especially while balancing a demanding political career with family life.

[26:27] Sage Steele: "Yeah."

Vivek discusses strategies like scheduling purposeful periods of quiet and reducing back-to-back meetings to enhance productivity and personal fulfillment.

[34:14] Sage Steele: "You did the tennis this morning and then you came home here and I witnessed you in the weight room with your trainer."

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5. Family Life and Future Plans

Vivek shares personal news about expecting a third child, reflecting on the joys and challenges of expanding his family while managing a political career.

[34:42] Vivek Ramaswamy: "We are expecting a third."

Sage and Vivek discuss the dynamics of parenting, emphasizing the importance of being present and the impact it has on children.

[31:15] Sage Steele: "Has it felt different for you being around the kids?"

Vivek articulates his philosophy of integrating family life with professional responsibilities, aiming to create a fulfilling environment for his children.

[36:12] Sage Steele: "Yes."

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6. Business Achievements and Impact

Vivek delves into his entrepreneurial ventures, highlighting the impact of his businesses, particularly those that develop life-saving medications.

[46:26] Sage Steele: "What you've done by age 40 is insanity. It's insane."

He details his first company, Royvin, which developed therapies for rare diseases, including a life-saving treatment for children with congenital athymia.

[49:25] Vivek Ramaswamy: "One's a life-saving therapy for kids where 20 kids a year... 70% of those kids now are able to live lives of normal."

Vivek also discusses other ventures in Medicare pairing, financial services, and steel production, emphasizing his passion for creating and mentoring successful enterprises.

[52:41] Sage Steele: "Those first drugs... they’re literally saving lives."

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7. Education Reforms and Policy Vision

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Vivek's vision for education reform in Ohio. He criticizes the current education system for neglecting student achievement and emphasizes the need for performance-based incentives for teachers.

[56:48] Sage Steele: "Like, how do we make it more incentive based...?"

Vivek outlines his plans to implement merit-based pay, holistic assessments, and AI literacy in schools to prepare students for the future economy.

[60:20] Vivek Ramaswamy: "I think our education system should celebrate and prioritize success and ambition over mediocrity and victimization."

He shares success stories from Ohio, such as a school adopting performance-based outcomes, leading to improved graduation and retention rates.

[61:20] Sage Steele: "It seems like such a daunting task when you talk about... STEM programs."

Vivek emphasizes the importance of long-term planning, advocating for a decade and a half horizon to turn educational performance around, aligning state policies with federal deregulation efforts.

[63:42] Sage Steele: "Yeah."

[63:43] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Yes, we ought to prioritize performance."

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8. Economic Policies and Taxation

Vivek outlines his economic priorities for Ohio, focusing on reducing the tax burden to prevent population decline and attract new residents.

[64:15] Sage Steele: "I think it's an achievable change."

[64:16] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Give me the education number one. Number two is the economic burden of taxation..."

He proposes eliminating the state income tax and capital gains tax to make Ohio more economically attractive, drawing parallels to states like Florida and Texas.

[64:33] Sage Steele: "You're going to be one of us."

[64:37] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Absolutely."

Vivek also touches upon energy policy, advocating for Ohio to become a hub for small modular nuclear reactors, highlighting the need for deregulation in partnership with federal authorities.

[71:16] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Right. So, I want Ohio to be a home and a hub for small modular nuclear reactors."

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9. Future Vision and Leadership Philosophy

Vivek shares his long-term vision for Ohio and the United States, emphasizing creating an environment where every individual has the opportunity to achieve the American Dream through ambition and hard work.

[54:34] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Instead of villainizing somebody else's success... how do we create a country where everyone is able to achieve?"

He distinguishes between being an early mover in business and the necessity of timing in politics, committing to focusing on impactful policies rather than getting entangled in past political battles.

[67:39] Sage Steele: "The same Common sense conversation."

Vivek stresses the importance of shifting the Republican Party's focus from opposition to constructive vision-building, aiming to align with the current federal administration to achieve mutual goals.

[78:33] Vivek Ramaswamy: "We're not that. Let's be better than that and say that... Here's what we're actually going to achieve..."

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10. Personal Reflections and Faith

Towards the end, the conversation touches on personal beliefs and the role of faith in Vivek's life. He shares insights into his theological reflections and the balance between personal plans and a higher purpose.

[85:17] Vivek Ramaswamy: "If you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans."

Vivek emphasizes gratitude and a sense of duty, viewing his accomplishments as part of a larger mission to uplift others and instill values in his children.

[87:16] Sage Steele: "Thank you for all that you've done... saving lives."

He concludes by reiterating his commitment to family, faith, and his political mission, expressing optimism for the future and the impact he aims to make as governor.

[87:42] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Thanks for coming over to our home. I appreciate it."

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Key Takeaways:

• Personal Development: Vivek prioritizes mindfulness, meditation, and maintaining a balanced presence between his professional and personal life.

• Family Commitment: Expanding his family is a source of joy and motivation, influencing his leadership style and priorities.

• Business Impact: His entrepreneurial ventures, especially in biotech, have had significant positive impacts, saving lives and creating jobs.

• Education Reform: Vivek advocates for performance-based incentives, holistic teacher assessments, and the integration of AI literacy in education to enhance student achievement.

• Economic Policies: Focused on reducing taxes to prevent population decline, attracting new residents, and fostering economic growth in Ohio.

• Leadership Vision: Emphasizes ambition, meritocracy, and creating opportunities for all individuals to achieve the American Dream without unnecessary political polarization.

• Faith and Gratitude: His faith plays a crucial role in his life, fostering a sense of gratitude and purpose beyond personal achievements.

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Notable Quotes:

• On Focus:

  [04:25] Sage Steele: "That's what that's what it takes in business. That's what it takes with everything is okay. Versus flexibility."

  [05:17] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Focus is the mother of success."

• On Education:

  [56:48] Sage Steele: "Like, how do we make it more incentive based, I guess, for children, for teachers and performance based on the test scores..."

  [60:20] Vivek Ramaswamy: "I think our education system should celebrate and prioritize success and ambition over mediocrity and victimization."

• On Economic Policy:

  [64:15] Sage Steele: "Give me the education number one. Number two is the economic burden of taxation in our state."

  [71:16] Vivek Ramaswamy: "I want Ohio to be a home and a hub for small modular nuclear reactors."

• On Leadership and Vision:

  [78:26] Sage Steele: "From a big picture perspective. And as just an American citizen who loves this country..."

  [82:40] Sage Steele: "What do you hope to have accomplished 10 years from now, hitting 50?"

• On Faith:

  [85:17] Sage Steele: "If you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans."

  [87:30] Vivek Ramaswamy: "Having kids, it's different... What's important to me is channeling that gratitude to doing something worthy."

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Conclusion

In this engaging episode of The Sage Steele Show, Vivek Ramaswamy offers a deep dive into his multifaceted life as a businessman, father, and political leader. He articulates a clear vision for Ohio's future, emphasizing education reform, economic revitalization, and fostering ambition without sacrificing personal well-being. Through candid reflections and insightful discussions, Vivek presents himself as a leader committed to creating meaningful change both within his state and the broader nation.

Transcript

[Sage Steele]

So I've had a chance to be around Vivek Ramaswamy a couple of times. Twice last fall, once at the Ohio State, Penn State game, and sat next to him, and, oh, my gosh, he loves his Buckeyes, and they beat Penn State that day, so he was really happy and loud. And number two, UFC 309 in New York City right after the election. Every time I'm around Vivek, every time I talk to him, you're reminded of his brilliance. And he's also so welcoming. Today was another level. It started bright and early over at Ohio State University at the tennis center, where he was out there taking lessons, getting coached. And I might have stepped out there, too, was really ugly. And then we came back here to his home, and he was working out in the gym and then sat down with us. Yes, we talked politics because he's running for governor here in the great state of Ohio, and of course, his presidential campaign and what he learned. We talked about all of that. But I think most importantly, what I'm going to remember the most is Vivek, the human being, talking about what he learned on a personal level and opening up more and being quiet more and meditating more and praying more, and how it affected him as a husband and a father and a family man, and what he hopes to do in the future, being a Christian, creative, talking more about that and all the businesses he started, the lives he's literally saving with the things he has helped create. These medications. He won't say that, but I'll say that. Also, some breaking news on the Ramaswamy family front that I got to hear right here in his studio basement. An awesome show. An honor for me to be here with Vivek Ramaswamy. So enjoy this next episode of the Sage Steel show with Vivek. Socks under your left elbow. I mean, I'm offended that you didn't know. I have this sock obsession.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Oh, it's always keeping afresh.

[Sage Steele]

Those are brand new. I want you to know I appreciate that they're not used.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

That means a lot to me.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. I figured it would. But I have this thing where I picture myself, and this is what I've done my whole life. Get on the couch, fuzzy socks all curled up, and then diarrhea of the mouth. And I sit and watch and talk about everything.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

So.

[Sage Steele]

So I would love it if you could. I mean, I know you've got this beautiful skirt.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Let's get into them.

[Sage Steele]

Can you. Do you mind?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it right now.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. Go I mean, look, I come with mine. I had these. I was gonna give you an option and I thought, I won't make you wear polka dot socks. Cause that's not very Vivek.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's not super masculine either, but.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I could have done it, but.

[Sage Steele]

And then I did make. I did think, you know, I have.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Like hot pink that could. I mean, that is a color that.

[Sage Steele]

Works, you know, but with our complexion, it does work. I will say I had Dana White do it. And it was. He came in with like his camo pants and his leather jacket and he. I had a big old basket in my studio and he chose hot pink. I like that with the camo.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I respect him.

[Sage Steele]

So if you are secure in your masculinity.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, but you didn't bring it though.

[Sage Steele]

No, I was trying to. I mean, I was trying to be more.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I'm good with that. I mean, you saw my shoes this morning. They're actually like neon. Neon orange, whatever. So I like color.

[Sage Steele]

If you had gone on because you played tennis, I mean, you were naturally ranked as a high school tennis player.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, I played pretty seriously through. Through high school. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Considered college.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Considered college. I would have been in the bottom half of the team for sure.

[Sage Steele]

So therefore we're not doing it.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And that's what I wanted to find, what I was going to be the best at. And tennis was not it. Yeah, but not. But not at a level that would be the greatest.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, I get that and I respect that. Your style would have been what I.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Would say, versatile and do whatever is needed to be able to pull out the win. So I would, I would sometimes, against better players than me, go to the moon balls when you have to. Otherwise I'm a pretty heavy topspin player. Off the. Off the forehand backhand ended up being a weakness because when I was in high school, you might notice I had a one handed backhand today. But yeah, I broke my wrist when I was in high school. And once you switch to one hand, you can't go back to two. So it always made the backhand a little bit of a vulnerability. Yeah, yeah. So, so, so. But one hand backhand works, you know, there has its advantages, but that would have been my style. General consistency, grinding on the forehand, particularly heavy topspin. But most importantly, do whatever is required to come out with the win. And I would say that I probably punched above my weight in terms of skill level, in terms of beating people who are better than me by being a little versatile in the game.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, well, that was what that's what it takes in business. That's what it takes with everything is okay. Versus flexibility.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Y. Well, but I thought the intensity.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, you didn't throw a racket or anything, but you might have, like, elbowed the cushioned wall a couple times.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I was. I was a little. See, it's the state of frustration where you. You know what you need to be doing, but you're not quite there to do it. So I'm working on the second half of the year. I've got a little bit. A little bit more latitude in my schedule. First half of this year was. Was a brutal schedule.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And so I didn't have the time to structure, but now I want to go out probably five days a week is what I'm doing. Aiming for in the second half of the year just for the sake of it. It'd be fun to get good.

[Sage Steele]

Are you going to do that, like, on the road? Constantly.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Are you in mornings? Mornings. You start in Columbus. A lot of my time is going to be in Ohio and five days a week, because if you shoot for five days, you'll end up there three days with the way the schedule goes. But at least if I'm in Columbus five days a week, I'd like to be.

[Sage Steele]

That's a lot.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. It's a big commitment.

[Sage Steele]

Well, and I did, you know, the reporter and me started asking questions. I'm like, okay, this guy. Let's talk about his game a little bit.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

[Sage Steele]

And no, they said that since you've gotten back.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

But you asked them.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, no, got it, got it, got it. I was asking them. And this is. I mean, these are guys at Ohio State University who are the best. The best.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

They're serious. Yeah. Serious guys.

[Sage Steele]

So they were saying that since you got back in the improvement, like, it's really been impressive. And they weren't just saying about a year ago.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's about a year ago that I started to get back in serious again.

[Sage Steele]

So do you agree? Like, have you. Yeah, I think.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's like tennis. It's like most things you put in the work, you get better. You don't put in the work, you atrophy. But yeah, last year has been pretty good. So I'm pleased with where things are going. The thing that's different than maybe 10 years ago, when I got back into it after wave, is now if you're going too intense, you know, the elbow will kick up the calf, so you got to take care of yourself fully. And make sure that you're not just going all out and then, like, you know, hip or the. The calf or the elbow, but if you're holistically, you know, training for it and then you're actually going out there pretty hard. Yeah, I think. I think it works. And I'm gonna give it a shot.

[Sage Steele]

For the next six months, and then real quick. Okay, style for play, would you have been allowed style person, like, with your clothing? I mean, because you have the really open.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

What I would say is I would have been open to it. Whatever it takes. If. If it would. If it would. How would that get under my opponent's skin enough to be able to make a better player a little worse? I would do it. If it's within the bounds of the rules of the game, you know what you're able to. You set up your advantage for yourself. So that's what I would have done.

[Sage Steele]

That literally takes me back to you on the debate stage, probably in Milwaukee in 2023.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Were you there?

[Sage Steele]

I was there.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

And I, of course, I studied you and knew you, and then you're right in the middle of stage. I mean, you had earned that position, the middle stage, but you smiled the whole time and you were, like, digging, and you knew you were getting a.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Little too much fun. I could be honest with you. I was probably having a little too much fun. Yeah. The day before going on the debate stage, I remember I was with my wife. We were in the. They had like, a little area dressing room, wherever you could just chill out a little bit before the debate. And I just sort of decided, we're just going to go unleash mode. Okay. We're just not going to be constrained. We're going to go out there. It was what a moment in your life to be able to be at the age of 37, had just turned 38 ahead of the debate, was nobody in the presidential field before. Now, at the center of the field, to be able to really drive my message to millions of people across the country, I said, you know what? I'm just going to really operate without a filter, take the filter off, be unconstrained. And then I would, to my surprise, very early in the debate, and it was, to my surprise, it's like three minutes in, I realized that I was kind of flattered. I was the person everyone on the stage wanted to attack. So I thought that was actually kind of interesting. And we had fun with it. Probably a little too much fun with it.

[Sage Steele]

Why do you say that?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, the reason I say that Is the reason I say that is I'm running to lead. I was running at the time to lead the country, and I was serious about the pursuit of bringing the country together, about actually implementing an economic vision that would create a new American dream. That was the premise of my candidacy to revive our sense of national identity in a way that went far beyond our standard racial or partisan boundaries. And I think the fact that I came across came through on that debate stage more like the guy who, you know, is showing up to play tennis and get under my opponent's skin and do whatever's necessary to win in the short run. And, you know, I think most people would say maybe that I won in a narrow sense that first debate. If you look at it as a fight between sporting contestants, I think that, on the other hand, it stopped a lot of people from being out there who don't know me from being able to see who I am as a leader as opposed to who I am just as a competitor.

[Sage Steele]

Well, they were coming after you, too, though.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

They were like.

[Sage Steele]

It was almost like they had all huddled up beforehand.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, it was. It was. And it was fun. Like, I enjoyed it.

[Sage Steele]

You're crazy.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Took it with a levity. But in retrospect, do I think that people who watched what was publicly visible during the presidential debates got to know me as a leader, as an executive, as a doer? I don't think so. Not the fullest picture. And so, anyway, as I said, I had fun, maybe a little bit too much fun, but it was a good experience and a lot of learnings for.

[Sage Steele]

The future, and I so appreciate that. And that says a lot about you, because everything you do matters. You don't know how many opportunities you get. Some people say, okay, one and done, like, they don't give you other opportunities, et cetera. But I would describe it as fearless, especially because you were the new kid on the block and half the age of some of these people on the.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Stage, you know, literally.

[Sage Steele]

And they were professional politicians. So I took it as fearless because anything they threw at you, you gave right back. And I do feel like people went, oh, okay, yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And I felt like it was. I was able to say certain things, like about the climate change agenda or otherwise, that it was really interesting to watch. The other candidates on the stage felt a little constrained. They weren't able to quite say the things that I was able to say at the time, that then six months later or eight months later ended up becoming standard fare.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

For the. For the rest of the Republican Party. I'll tell you the funniest thing I did when I ran for president. It has nothing to do with partisan politics or nothing to do with policy views. The big cardinal sin, and this is a big deal during the debates. In fact, it came up in like two or three of the different debates is the number one thing that I did that you were not supposed to do as a Republican candidate for any office was to commit the cardinal sin of joining TikTok. And at that time that was considered unthinkable. Beyond the pale, there's this Chinese controlled app and it's all the left wing people that go on this app. And what is a Republican candidate who wants to be a serious contender for the US presidency doing on TikTok? That's where the world was then. And just, it's just amazing as recently as now, we're what, a couple of years later, even a year later, that tide had totally changed where it was totally the normal thing that you were actually missing the boat if you weren't a Republican candidate on all the social media channels, including TikTok. And it kind of made sense because my own view is you're never going to persuade people if you don't actually show up to where they're actually at. Think about younger people who came along in droves in the end for, for President Trump in the 2024 election at a time that was unthinkable. They're not watching msnbc, they're not watching Fox News, they don't have cable, they may not even know what cable exactly is, but they're on Tick Tock. And I think it's weird. It was seemed odd to me at the time to say that on one hand we're going to criticize all the young people who are embracing socialism over capitalism when we refuse to show up in the place where, in the venue where young people are actually present to be able to persuade them. And so one of the things I've learned in politics is different from my background in business and most of my background's in business. I mean that's, that's, this politics thing is new. I've been an entrepreneur for most of my career. But the thing that's different, very different in politics, in business is in business it actually pays to be early if you're spotting the trend and far sooner than everybody else either. As an investor you're able to buy an asset at a lower price. As an entrepreneur, you're able to be first to market relative to somebody else in business. If you're right, it Absolutely rewards you and pays more to be early in politics. Sage, it absolutely does not pay to be early, okay? You got to be there right on time. And so even. Even today, I mean, there's a lot I'm on this journey for governor, and I'm very focused on this next chapter and maybe even taking a bit of a retreat from the hot topic of the day on the national stage to focus on what I'm going to actually be able to do here in Ohio. But one of the lessons, I see a lot brewing that I kind of have. I'm not always right, but I've been right more than I'm wrong about where the puck is going. But one of my lessons is sometimes if you're a little too early, people don't really understand where you're coming from versus set yourself up. And if you're a media commentator, maybe you should just be early. Right. And maybe you should help guide audiences to where they want to go. But if you want to be a leader and you actually want to drive change as an executive, as a governor, as a president, in some ways, you know, I think, you know, maybe call it maturation or call it, you know, whatever the negative version of that would be is I'm never gonna. I'm never gonna say something that I don't believe.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I refuse that. But I think that there's some wisdom. And also, you don't have to say a hundred percent of everything you believe at exactly the same time versus when it's going to have the biggest positive impact. And that was probably one of my lessons from the presidential campaign, because at that point, I would tell you 100% of what was on my mind 100% of the time. And I think that, you know, where many politicians go wrong is they'll say things that they don't believe. I'm never going to do that. But I think that there's a certain set of views that I think are really important that relate to sort of my vision of reviving American education, et cetera, that I'm focused on now. There's also a lot of things I. That I have thoughts on going on nationally that will save it for the right time in the future. And I would say that's one of the places where I'm a little different now than maybe where I was a couple years of years ago.

[Sage Steele]

Well, I mean, I would think that there would be some changes when you do something as big as you did to run for president of the free world. Basically. You know, you talk about being Early. And I look back at that 2008 election in particular, where I think so much changed when Obama won. But how did he do it? I'm not. This certainly wasn't the only way. But he was on Facebook.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

That was, that was unthinkable at the time, but he was. And President Trump, I mean, the way he did, he was the first sort of, you know, through Twitter, through Facebook, really effective in 2016. So, so that. Those are methods. But anyway, my point is. But you have to get to where the puck's going. Yes, but. But at the same time, as it relates to, you know, particularly relates to like a message. Right. I mean, the idea of joining Tick Tock or some of the things I was talking about back then were beyond the pale that are now totally accepted. Common wisdom in American politics today is in business, it definitely pays to be early. And I'm not going to be able to. That's kind of who I am. And I'm never going to be able to, to be a different person than that. But I can maybe be a little bit more. More prudent about how we're actually able to have that impact. Yes, because. Because here's another lesson from business that does apply, which is that focus is the mother of success. You're never going to get something worthy done unless you're focused on actually nailing it. And so I think about where my focus is right now. I look at an average student in the United States is five years behind Singapore, four years behind the average student in China. I think it's the single most important issue that nobody is seriously stepping up to address today. That's where I'm focused in my next step of my journey. I think about financial independence for young people. Big issue unites us. Nobody's stepping up to think about how it's easy to lambast billionaires. Whatever you can think about what's going on in New York or otherwise. We don't want billionaires to exist. That's what some people say, ask a different question, which is how do we actually create a country where every young person is able to grow up to enjoy the most important things that billionaires do? And to me, if you focus on those are two questions that, for example, really matter. Those are two questions where I believe I'm going to actually be able to deliver meaningful change in our state of Ohio. Great. Nail that. And I'm not going to be able to, you know, nail on the periphery of a bunch of other, you know, hot topic, national, national hot button issues that I'M not even going to move the needle as much on Right. Instead, focus is the mother of success. And I think that that level of focus allows me to stay true to my North Star of who I really am, but in a manner that actually empowers me to be able to get more done. I mean, the presidential race, I exceeded everyone's expectations but my own. I thought it was going to be successful. Everybody else thought it was going to go nowhere. And in the end, as a first time candidate at 37, you know, beat a former vice president, multiple senators and former governors, I'm glad for where we ended up. But you know, I think there's a lot of things I could have done probably in that domain of focus because there was a few things that were really central to my candidacy and if I had stuck to that through and through, I think it probably would have been even more successful than, you know, getting pulled and distracted in a bunch of different directions that I had fun with.

[Sage Steele]

Sure.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

But probably detracted from my effectiveness in actually being able to implement a vision for the country that I, by the way, still think is necessary.

[Sage Steele]

Absolutely.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

But we're gonna, in the next chapter, at least do it in one state rather than the country as a whole.

[Sage Steele]

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[Vivek Ramaswamy]

This is my favorite parts, one of my favorite parts of running for office. And it is. It kind of is part of who I am and kind of who I've always been.

[Sage Steele]

But my point with that, Vivek, is that to me, before we met, that showed me exactly who you were, because most people would just wait for security to remove them from the room. You were like, no, no, no, no, hold on. You've gotten out of cars before. You're walking along a parade route, whatever it is, and you stop and talk. And when you take a moment for somebody, not only does it affect them and maybe not even change their mind, but at least soften and make them think. Millions of others have witnessed you doing that. And that, to me, is so important and something that we escape. I wish Donald Trump would do that more. And I think he has this.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

You had to be the most authentic version of who you are. I mean, for me, I think about most of most of my friends. When you get to a certain age, you're not in the business of making new friends, right? At least you got to keep up with the ones that you already made, right? Friends, family, et cetera. And most of my friends are from earlier phases of life. We have some new friends, but our closest people in our lives came from earlier phases of our lives. Actually, the funny thing is, most, I would say a majority of them are certainly not where I am politically. I think generally you'd probably put them to the left of where I am. But we're still good friends.

[Sage Steele]

What a concept.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, what a concept. But we. And we still, you know, we still, you know, needle each other all the time, but in, like, in a productive, constructive way. A lot of them will fly from New York City or California to spend a weekend with us and me and Apoorva here, and we'll still spar over, you know, in a friendly way. And. And to me, that's always been part of something that gets me going In a positive way. And I want to bring that part of our culture back, but I'm actually not. We. We should do it today. But I'm actually not really good at talking about myself. Like I naturally gravitate towards, you know, policy or particular business items or whatever. But it does matter. I'm just not very. It definitely is missing, probably. I'm just, it's not a. It's not something that I'm particularly natural at it. Talking about myself personally as opposed to talking about what I have done or I'm going to do or policy view or enter into that, you know, debate, context of discussion. So you can take me out of my comfort zone. We can do that.

[Sage Steele]

Take your jacket off. There we go.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sage Steele]

I get it. And you have to be so laser focused. And I mean, there's. That's the reason why you are where you are today is because of that focus that really, I don't know that you can teach it. I mean, to an extent you can give me advice, which by the way, I'll pay you. I'll take all the advice I can get from you from a business perspective as well. But it is here and that is who you are. I just know that I personally try to find something outside of that because that's where we all are the same, you know. And just because you've had so much success and you made a lot of money and you have a beautiful life and wife and children and all those things, that doesn't mean there aren't tough things going on in your life. Who knows what's happening in your family, in your heart. Right? I mean, we talk so much now about mental health. Sometimes we go a little over the top and it is. We don't need to get on TikTok and talk about our feelings every single day, like, go to work, please. But what is that balance? We spoke earlier and actually when I had you on this show for like just a quick 20 minute hit that was like on Zoom or something, you know, one thing you said about anything you were to do in the future if you potentially decide to run again, is to take some time for yourself.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Totally.

[Sage Steele]

And you said, I think you said, even if it's just 20 minutes, 20 minutes a day to stop. And maybe that means meditate, maybe that means pray, but alone and quiet. Have you implemented that? Especially now as you take on another campaign?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

So, so that's. You're. You're keeping me honest. I like that. I don't know, when we spoke, it might have been like A year ago.

[Sage Steele]

It was like April of 24 was.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, it was a little over a year ago. So I have actually and I think it's been, it's been, it's been good for me as a forcing function to just take purposeful periods of quiet. Quiet and quietude. I mean a place to be able to, you know, I. I think I've probably gotten more in touch with theology and, and faith and in my faith and religion. But that's only a component of it. Some of it's just experiential. Yeah, I mean, you were with me this morning, but like, I think being focused on taking more time out of the day to get literally your physical blood flowing and then ideally that's like some of my best time sages. After that, you know, have a nice shower and then, you know, meditate, be able to just take some quiet time to yourself, maybe even like long conversations with friends. So one of the things I'm trying to do more is we'll bring our friends out who we haven't seen in a while just to spend a weekend. That kind of takes me out of the. The present rat race or whatever that we're on. And so the combination of those things I think has been super useful for me. And I think I would have been a better candidate and leader of the country in the scenario of my last run for U. S. President had I done that. But you know what, there's, there's no, you know, whatever. It's like a Winston Churchill quote. We just went to England for family vacation. I think, what do you say? Success is never final and failure is never fatal. You learn from that. And I think that that's something in this next journey. Not just in the campaign, but even in leading this state as governor. I'm of a school of thought. Part of how I got to where I am is just by grinding hard, working hard. You have finite amount of things you're able to get done in a day. And if you're talking about tactical boxes to check you're right, time is finite. There's only so much of it you're able to take advantage of. But if you're talking about actually, you know, moving the needle as a leader that leverages other people to be able to get more done. Part of that actually requires being the best version of yourself rather than getting consumed by the rat race. And I think I have gotten better at that, frankly in the last couple of years. And I think it's hopefully going to make me a more successful leader and also Just a happier and more fulfilled person as a father and a husband and just as a human being. And that's something that is an important priority to me going forward.

[Sage Steele]

I struggle with it a lot. So I'm saying this for my sake too.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's natural. Right?

[Sage Steele]

And then, and then you're mad at yourself if you can't stay focused. Wait, I'm giving myself. Can I not do eight minutes of meditation? Like stay still?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. One thing I found is that does not work from the, the once you're in the cycle of then scolding yourself for not doing it right, then it just doesn't work. Then you're. Then it's just like, okay, take a break and do something else. Because yeah, I experienced the same thing. Then you scold yourself and say okay, like can't you. Why can't you figure out and get your act together? And then it becomes another task as opposed to another task on the checklist and part of the rat race as opposed to something that's just more experiential and fulfilling. So minus the scolding. Sort of a, you know, forcing function on just the way you set up your schedule. I like I, I schedule purposefully. I do fewer calls now, fewer zoom meetings. I know I just had one before we came down but in general that one had to be pre scheduled. But when possible, like I don't, I don't like to schedule calls often. People I need to call and I'll. And I'll get to it. I'll get to it when I kind of feel like it.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And I think that that a is actually often just more organic. We don't, people don't do that anymore. You're texting each other, setting up pre existing zooms or calls. Just pick up the phone and call somebody you need to talk to. It's actually a great interaction but also from a schedule perspective it just, you know, or meeting or whatever. I'm just, I have no appetite for the back to back rat race and I've set up my schedule in the way we're running things accordingly. That gives me the space to more organically, you know, have reflective moments that are maybe it's eight minutes, maybe it's a couple hours. And I think that that's something that for me has certainly been good and I think it's going to make me actually more effective as a leader and as an executive, as a doer by sometimes actually not in the micro of the day to day doing it every moment actually makes you more effective. Doer who accomplishes more. And I've been able to see that in, you know, a lot of them in the last couple years. I've actually had a lot of. A lot of different plates in the air that I've been juggling. But that was one of my learnings from the presidential campaign is I think I've actually been able to do and accomplish more in these last couple of years by at times slowing up the pace. Right. My experience, I would say I'm at my best when my experience of time is slower. So if your experience of time, it feels like the time is not racing, you're actually able to think more clearly and accomplish more. And I think that that's something that's maybe a little different how I operate today versus a few years ago.

[Sage Steele]

That's so interesting.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Because. Yes, it is. Well, you feel like you have to hurry to get to the next thing and the next thing and that. And you said this too. If it doesn't feel like another task to meditate, to work out, like you, you did the tennis this morning and then you came home here and I witnessed you in the weight room with your trainer.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You know, does that feel like a task? I mean, yes. We're trying to stay healthy at our age and. Well, yours.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I love it. Yeah. I mean, for me, that's, that's. I, I do work with a trainer because it helps me focus less time on the phone. I'm also, I mean, it's one of the things I've like, simple thing I've done recently is like all of the social media apps, I've moved them away from my front page. So it's just like you open your phone, it's not the first thing you, you click on. If like I say I want to make a phone call to my wife, but I'm not seeing, you know, go on Instagram or X. It's just put them on a different page. If I want to go on that, I'm going to make it my own choice, but I'm not going to be dragged into it by, you know, pattern or addiction or muscle memory. But yeah, similarly, set up my schedule every day. Some days we have to cancel it, but the default is 8 to 9am that's workout times, fitness time. It's great for me. And so I think that's actually good. It never. That has not, you know, that doesn't feel like a box that I'm checking. And then, you know, you could try to structure a few hours after that where things are a Little bit more fluid. Yeah, that's great for me. Then I'm set up for a great day. Now the flip side is, oh my gosh, it's already, you know, 10:30am that's already part of your day. But you know, we're not in the. And I think this, by the way, not to be overly predictively philosophical about it, but I think this is the way a lot of the future world is going to go where a lot of the task orientation life, that's going to be taken care of by technology anyway in the future. And so the question is like more holistically as a human being, how are you able to do something differential that an automated task master wouldn't be able to accomplish anyway? So I mean, that's a macro reflection of the direction of the world. But for me, I find myself far more productive if, you know, you take those first few hours of the day from 7am to 10:30am and you're actually setting yourself up for the rest of the day to be more productive.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Way better than the way I was doing things a few years ago, which is just 6:30am onward, just scheduled back to back.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. Because you're trying to get everything done and there's never enough hours. Yeah, I find that. And I think this isn't like my scientific research in general. Those close to us can tell when we're aligned, when we're feeling good about ourselves or bad. But since you have made this commitment to do those things and more intentional with, with slowing down a little aporva. What is, what does your wife say to you? Has. Do you think she has felt a change in you?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, probably think she would. You have to talk to her. I think she'd probably say yes. You know, I would say that she welcomes that. And she herself is. Is super successful, ambitious person in her own right. She's one of the top throat surgeons in the country. When I'm saying I'm getting up at, you know, if I get up at 6:30am Three days of the week, she's already gone. Because in her case the or those cases start actually really early. But she's able to, you know, she's able to do it a different way. Right. She's got a more native ability to be able to get into the zone even while in the part of a busy schedule. So each person's wired differently. But I think she would agree with you. Agree with me that it's been, it's been good for me.

[Sage Steele]

Has it felt different for you being around the kids?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, I think a little more presence. I think a little bit more of an ability to, you know, when my kid. When you're with your kids and kids are good, litmus test for this, they can tell not only are you. It's not just are you there, like, okay, technically you were there. But whether you're distracted or not, they have a really good sixth sense for it. And so anyway, I think. I think I. I don't. My kids are 5 and 3, so I don't know exactly what answer they would utter, but I think that they would probably, if they. If they could, you know, give you their actual answer, probably tell you that they feel a greater sense of presence and attention relative to the version of me that existed during, you know, the presidential campaign. Now, some of that's the reality of. I mean, there's. That was. It was just daunting. I mean, there was. There was, you know, it was what it was. But I do think that one of the learnings from it was a little bit of investment in space goes a long way. Huge in the form of effectiveness.

[Sage Steele]

I will share that. My kids are now 23, 21 and 19. And I have a lot of regrets about, I'd say even 10 years ago, you know, when they were all teenagers and the feeling of needing to be, like, on call almost. And I'm not a doctor, right. I was just a sportscaster. But to constantly be accessible to everybody and bosses. And so, yes, I was there. Was I fully present? Not all the time. And I, you know, trying to scold myself and beat myself up for that now. So I love for you that you are realizing that and seeing it and feeling the difference now when they're babies, because then in a couple years they are going to tell you, you know, if you keep that up, they're going to let you know. And, you know, I've been able to have some awesome conversations about them with it and to kind of forgive myself for trying to. You're trying to do it all. And my kids, and I'm sure they.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Admire and respect and look up to you, and there's. There's a lot. We're all human beings, right? So no one's gonna be. I don't know. I don't know that there's any version of perfect other than just, yeah, as you are. It sounds like just reflecting on it, iterating, learning and, you know, being more, you know, at least aspiring to who you want to be and for sure.

[Sage Steele]

But they do feel everything and they do.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

They have A good. They have a good sixth sense instinct for it. Our boys are. I mean, they're young, they're. My younger one just turned three, but they have a good intuitive understanding of whether you're actually dialed in and present with them or whether you're pulled in six different directions mentally. And I think that's been good for me, actually, because it's forced me to, you know, again, have an experience of time that's far slower. And I think that that hasn't changed what I'm actually able to accomplish, which has been a cool discovery. Be one thing if that came at the cost of saying, okay, well, that's great, and that I've. That I've sort of added these, the sense of space to my schedule and, and my experience, but, man, I'm getting a lot less done. That would be a tough choice then, because then you got a trade off for me. I haven't really experienced as a trade off so far. I think I'm getting at least as much done, but with an experience of time and time with family and even just having fun in my day job of whatever it is campaigning or business pursuits or writing, actually enjoying it more without actually compromising how much I'm actually achieving or.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Getting done. I think that's been a good experience for me.

[Sage Steele]

Are you guys done growing your family?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Actually? So this is. I guess it'll be the first time that I'm saying it publicly, but we are expecting a third. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You are?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, we are.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my God.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, it was. I wasn't planning to roll that out, but you asked.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. When did she do?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, a purva.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

She's a throat surgeon now, but she's, she's, she's early stage of pregnancy. You know what it's like. So you had three.

[Sage Steele]

I know she's a throat. Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

So we had two boys. We don't know whether it's a boy or girl yet, but we're expecting early next year.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my goodness.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Oh, when is she due? I think so. What does she do?

[Sage Steele]

Okay. You thought I didn't know what she did? Like.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Give me a little credit.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Early next year.

[Sage Steele]

When is she due? Early next year. So. So that means she's how many? How far along now? Help me.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

We're like a few months in. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

How'd she feel?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

If we're being really honest, it's a little challenging right now. Yeah. Which we don't know if that means that it's a girl because they say a little bit Maybe if it's, you know, more vomiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we'll see. But she's, she's, she's doing overall, but it's a tough, tough thing to. The first few months, depending on each pregnancy is different. She's hanging in there.

[Sage Steele]

She's doing great, you know, and she's one of the leading throat surgeons in the world while she's getting ready to have a third baby and supporting a husband who's running for governor.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

No big deal.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

She's good. Yeah. And I think we're both that way. I mean, we are, we're believers in having it all. We're not believers in having to make life trade offs. Right. The work life balance is not a concept that resonates with either of us, but it's more about holistically.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Getting the most joy and fulfillment and purpose out of that life experience and kind of just all goes together. And we're also, you know, it's, it's easier, it's easier said than done, but it's certainly easier to do when you are blessed to live in family circumstances like we have right now that my parents would never imagine, that her parents would have never imagined 40 years ago, right when I grew up in Cincinnati, my parents would. I mean, the idea of having separate child care or someone to clean your house or cook your food, I mean, that would have been like laughable ideas. And it does make it easier for us to, you know, have the, the stuff I'm talking about that's pretty, you know, idealistic sounding. We're grateful to live in circumstances that make it a lot easier for us to do that than our parents or people who might have been in our parents circumstances. And so we're grateful for that, but with the full, full support system of family and parents on both sides and, you know, the ability to get from place to place, you know, quickly with ease, makes it possible. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

For sure.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

For us to be able to have it all.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. I know it's. Yes. We just want a healthy baby boy, girl, whatever. I want to see you as a girl, dad.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. Okay. We'll see whatever we can.

[Sage Steele]

You know what? She will have you so wrapped up.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Is, is probably rooting for a girl. I'm happy with either, but. Yeah, I think, I think, I think a girl would be a good, good addition to our family.

[Sage Steele]

You would. This would be your first experience with losing every battle?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Our sons give me a run for my money, but, but they, I think they would like a little Sister, too.

[Sage Steele]

Well, and. And I'll say this.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

They'd be good brothers.

[Sage Steele]

Absolutely. And. And plus, with the youngest being three.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

There's a few years there.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

There's a gap, right. 1 5. There's three, and there'll be the little one.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I wanted four. I only had three. I regret that.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Really?

[Sage Steele]

Yes. Oh, my gosh. So keep on going. I always say to people like you, you never, ever having more, even if it's hard, even if you don't have a lot of money, you never regret that. But I know so many people.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I've never met someone who had a lot of kids who said that. Man, I wish it was one fewer, but I met a lot of people financially. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, it's still. Especially you. You know, you believe in a higher being and God given and so many women and men, you know, and spouses, husbands, couples. Can't have babies. Like, what a blessing. But you never regret having more. So my next life, whatever that looks like, I'm gonna have, like, eight of them. Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

That's good.

[Sage Steele]

But okay.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Three is pretty good, though.

[Sage Steele]

So you take that. You take a third child into this new challenge.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's exciting for us. I'm. You know, it's like the most. It's like the most joyful thing is bring kids into the world. So we're excited.

[Sage Steele]

You know, I actually am so glad you said that about balance. I hate the word balance.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. Resonated with me.

[Sage Steele]

Because then it makes you feel like.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

You'Re trading things off.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. And that you're never actually in a good place because there's no such thing for a little while. Okay. You're gonna have to go all in on a campaign, president, governor, whatever it is. And this is a little lower, but you're gonna bring it back. And. And that's okay. Isn't that life? And I think that that phrase has almost been abused. And then it makes people feel this pressure that it has actually.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I mean, it's kind of like the equivalent of scolding yourself that we're talking about earlier. But the idea of work, life, balance, I just, like. I feel like a headache. My first impulse is to have, like, the slightest impulse for a headache when you. When you talk about that, because it creates a type of tension, a type of stress that. Are you actually getting that optimization function. Right. Versus, like, a different view, which is that we have this beautiful thing that we're gifted called our life that is finite, and that we have a chance to just make the most of in every way that matters. And like, I do believe that, that you can have it all by way of making that a choice. And I know some people listen to that and understandably say, well, you know, easy for somebody in, in your financial position to say. And in some sense, I'm super grateful for what this state in this country has afforded my family to be able to live this American dream at this scale. But some of this has nothing to do with finances or money or anything else. It's about just attitude and perspective as well. And I, I do think that the things that give me joy in life didn't come from financial success. It comes from the ability to have a sense of freedom and a sense of experiencing the joys of life in a way that's relatively independent of, you know, all the material factors that go into it. So I don't know, it is easier for us than our parents. And I recognize that when my dad was facing a layoff at ge, would go to night school at Northern Kentucky University, which is like a 45 minute drive away for four years to be able to have job security while my mom is jumping around nursing homes in Greater Cincinnati with two boys, no childcare, like we have, no help at home like we have today. And so there are some, maybe practical realities, of course, that are, that are different, but I also think they lived, you know, with great fulfillment. And I think as a family, we didn't feel like we were short on anything. I, speaking as a kid, that my kids versus what my kids are enjoying today. And so I think some of this is just an attitudinal choice. And, you know, the choice we make is not to see this as a balancing act, but just as part of the joy of every day that we're given. And that makes life a lot more fun.

[Sage Steele]

I feel like I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of your parents because, man, they must watch you and look at you. And I don't know anything about your relationship with parents.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's good that we see them. We see them once a week or so.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Oh, that's a lot.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

That's nice. Then as a mother of a recent college graduate who has her first job. Yes. Get a job. Still on my insurance. Fine. But now I look at, you know, I look at her so differently and there's so much pride, you know, and so I can't imagine how your parents feel about you. Not the financial part, which is great, right? Yeah. But because of the things that we're talking about and because of where your, your priorities Are, I mean, how, how much crazy?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I mean, they think. I'm not sure how in love they are with the idea of me having entered politics. They're proud of. They're proud of me in the way that a parent is. They think it's kind of nuts. You know, why don't you just, you know, look after your family? And it is kind of crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know. I'd have to. I think they would tell you that they're at least gratified. The fact that our family is in a good place is, I think, the thing that's most important to them as a family unit. Mercifully, so far, we're healthy, able to live a happy life, spend time together as a family. I think when they hear about Mia Porva and the kids going on vacation somewhere, I think that probably gives them more joy than seeing me achieve some business or political accomplishment. I think that's the truth of where they're at.

[Sage Steele]

Do you look back, though, like, in a moment, here or there? And when you go home and visit and take a deep breath, I'm afraid you're going to say, I'm focused on this. But I hope that you have moments where you go back to that childhood home, whatever that looked like, and pat yourself on the back a little bit, because this was not given. And this is why you've been so passionate about immigration and doing it the right way and the American dream, working and achieving and not sitting here like this. Your parents didn't, My parents didn't. But do you have those moments where when you go back and, and you look at a much smaller life that you had, where, and look, look what you've done for your family and for others.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

There's, there's some element of that. Yeah, there's some element of that. You know, I, I, I think it definitely affects my sense of purpose and mission in what I'm doing now. I'm guided by a deep sense of gratitude. That's the number one emotion that I would say I experience today, relative to 10 or 15 years ago, is like, honestly, I'm just super grateful. And honestly, if I didn't, if I didn't have kids, having kids changes what I'm about to say. But, like, honestly, if we snapped a finger and it was all over, like, life right tomorrow, I would feel really grateful for the life I've already had a chance to live. And every day is just a bonus. That's the way I look at it now. Having kids, it's different. Right. You have a responsibility to be around to bring them up. But I say that from a perspective of deep satisfaction and gratitude of the life that I've been given. And so every day feels like it's just a bonus on top. Then you're just saying, okay, well, like, how can I. How can I channel that gratitude to doing something worthy? And so, for me, anyway, I do go home and, you know, have those moments, but it's less about, like, patting yourself on the back and feeling proud so much as it is just feeling super grateful. I turn 40 next month.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And if that was. If that alone were the full life, if that was the whole package of my human experience, I would be. I would be happy and grateful for it and not expect a thing more. But every day after is a bonus. And now you have kids and you have a job bringing them up, and that's a mission. And now, you know, the service and public service side of life, we've chosen a new mission. I view that as. As all, you know, bonus on top of what we've been given. So for me, that's kind of the feeling that I have when we go back home is. Is a sense of just gratefulness for where we are.

[Sage Steele]

I. I feel like sometimes we. And my parents have yelled at me for this. We're afraid to say, yes, I'm proud because it makes it seem like we're not humble. All of it can exist. Gratitude, humility.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Sure.

[Sage Steele]

Pride.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. Because what you have done, I think.

[Sage Steele]

Correct. What you have done. What you've done by age 40 is insanity. It's insane. Was this. I mean, the plan not to. Maybe. Exactly. And perfectly scripted in this way. But there's very few people who can say that, because it isn't just about what you've achieved for you. You've affected thousands and thousands of lives by hiring people, by creating companies.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Those are some of my hardest accomplishments.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. I feel a great sense of gratitude. One of the things I really enjoy doing now is. So I've built several companies, four companies. I really enjoy my mentorship relationships with each of the CEOs of those companies. And to me, that was actually one of the things I also discovered is the earliest phase of getting an enterprise off the ground was my favorite part. And for me, it was. It kind of highlights the part of being a political leader that I enjoy the most as well, is starting with a vision and beginning to nudge that vision into reality. The beginning of that process of either having a vision and then the upfront work of putting it and turning into reality and then setting it sail. That's what gives me the greatest satisfaction. And so you know, I have, there's four companies I've started. One is a biotech company that developed five medicines that are approved today. One of the life saving therapy in kids, that's a big enterprise. My relationship, the fact that that's able to run entirely independent of me, I started that company really only a little over 10 years ago is really gratifying to me. And then there's four other three other companies that are at different, other stages of their growth that are relatively at different stages of independence from my involvement from them as well is super gratifying to me. I think that's awesome. So for me, that's what gets me going is the early stage of getting at turning what was just an idea into a reality. Finding people who are better than you to be able to then carry forward to the next phase and having a mentoring relationship with them is something that I still, even when I'm in my political life now, having that informal mentoring relationship with those CEOs of the companies is something that I, I enjoy a lot. And it's something an important part of gets me out of the political world a little bit too. Sometimes it feels like oxygen when you're getting back to the world of either entrepreneurship or business or even sports. I'm also a person who on one hand am I best when I focus. On the other hand, I actually do like having multiple, you know, multiple different plates in the air at the same time because I think it makes me better at doing each of them. And that for me is like a kind of oxygen that I breathe even now in my run. To be able to keep things outside of politics alive makes me, I think, a more energized and more alive, alive leader.

[Sage Steele]

There's something to be said for taking something, a product, an idea from nothing. And especially when maybe others have tried and failed. And that's probably where the competitiveness in you comes out that we have all seen. And then to make it fly. That's so cool. How about the fact that with that company that you started 10 years ago and it's life saving, one of them is.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, I mean there's five drugs, one of them is. So I'll tell you about them. One's a life saving therapy for kids where 20 kids a year, really small number, but 20 kids a year are born with this rare congenital disease where 100% of them died by the age of three if untreated. And the therapy that we got through FDA approval. 70% of those kids now are able to live lives of normal.

[Sage Steele]

What was the disease?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's called complete du jour syndrome or congenital athymia. Kids born without a thymus. And this is a biologic therapy in partnership with a university that we ended up developing through FDA approval that the rest of the industry had overlooked. Another one's a drug for prostate cancer. I don't know if President Biden's going to end up on it or not. He might, but it's for the exact kind of prostate cancer that he has. Metastatic but still advanced. Excuse me, but still hormone sensitive. And so I think that that's something that is, you know, again, an option that didn't exist. It's an oral drug that now exists. Another for endometriosis and uterine fibroids, which are women's health conditions that had traditionally been ignored by much of the innovative biotech and pharma industry. Another for. For psoriasis. And so there was a series of drugs that, that we were able. That wouldn't exist in the world but for the company that I founded. And I'm super grateful for that. And by the way, you don't develop successful drugs without having some painful failures along the way as well in some other drugs and other areas that we developed that didn't work out. But that fact of being able to have that impact, that that's an enterprise that now runs itself with cumulatively over its life, thousands of people that have been employed directly and indirectly by the company. Yeah, it gives me great satisfaction. And then now I've done that several times over. So there's a. There's a. Another. The first company is called Royvin. Next company I started was a company called Chapter that pairs elder Americans with Medicare plans that they don't know actually exist because of the weird way and the broken way that Medicare plans reach their customers through customer channels. Here it's actually using the data, the individual attributes of a person to be able to pair them with the right Medicare plan that actually best meets their needs. So as a co founder of the company, but never served as its CEO, had a great CEO named Kobe who runs that business today, doing super well and I'm incredibly proud of what he's done and my relationship with him is one of friendship that came out of that. We talk about the business from time to time, but it set sail and going in its own direction, strive a financial services business in the bitcoin space now. And then another newer business that you Know, will probably, out of respect to, to my co founder and the current CEO won't say much about, but it's in the steel production arena. Multiple different domains have each of varying degrees of, of age. The first three are unambiguously so far on paths to success that I'm proud of. And the fourth one is incipient and young. I, I love that. To me, that is the process of creation that gets me going. It's also what led me to write my books. Right. Once I wrote my first book, I, I wrote more. So I've written four books in the last five years. But I like, I like creating new things because that gets my, my creative energy going. But at the same time, you know, at a certain stage of the process, you can't just create something then it has to be managed and overseen and whatever. And you know, I don't like marketing the book that I wrote three years ago. I'd rather just write a new one because that keeps me fresh. Same thing with respect to the companies that I founded. I love getting it off the ground, making sure that it gets to actual reality and impact, put the best possible people in place. And to me, that's been the sweet spot for where I enjoy doing things the most.

[Sage Steele]

That's amazing. And those first. I mean all the drugs that you mentioned. And I have a mother and uncles who've suffered from psoriasis for their entire lives. I understand what comes with that. And it's something that's not talked about often, especially if it's hidden.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Depends on where it's on your body.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Totally stigmatized often very much so.

[Sage Steele]

My father with prostate cancer for the last 14 years. And these are. This is why you said that. Okay. If something ended today, if life ended today, like what. What you have done to help others in a very short span is really, is really special. I mean that's, it's, it is saving lives.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

40 years and you know, we've got, we've been given the gift and the opportunity to enjoy and realize what we call this idea of our American dream to its fullest.

[Sage Steele]

But you have chosen. I've chosen to take full advantage of those opportunities, which certainly has benefited you, but it's benefited thousands, maybe millions of others tenfold compared to what it's done.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And that's what I'm on a mission, Sage, to kind of revive in our country. Is that sense of that spirit of ambition. I don't think ambition's a bad word. I think it's a beautiful part of the American spirit. I think ambition and humility aren't in tension with one another. I think at our best they can actually really go deeply and profoundly together. And I do feel like this is, this is where my next sense of mission comes from, is I do feel like we're in this sleeping kind of slumberous phase with respect to that idea of exceptionalism and success and positive achievement and the pursuit of greatness. That's what I want for every kid in this country. Want to cultivate that spirit in our own two kids, but want to really hopefully soon to be three, but also in every kid who grows up to be able to say that, don't villainize somebody else's success.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Instead my question is how do we create a country where every one of us is able to achieve those things that those successful people call them what you want, billionaires or elites or whatever. Why doesn't everybody be able to actually enjoy the most important things through their own sense of achievement? That's the culture that I want to see us recreate in our country.

[Sage Steele]

How do we do that?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, I think it starts with the education system.

[Sage Steele]

I think that our education system, it's.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

A huge necessity in Ohio and in the country. And I do think we have an education system that slowly has devolved into deprioritizing the actual success and achievement of our students and instead solve for a bunch of different other objectives and we can get into the trap of falling about what those other objectives are. And there was a time and place for talking about the detrimental impacts of, you know, woke victimhood, psychology and the curriculum and teaching kids to be something other than the best version of themselves. But that forget all the bad stuff, what's the good stuff that we want coming out of our education system is I think, celebrating an emphasis on achievement and at least the basic tools at a young age in reading, writing, math, financial literacy. Starting at a young age. So you're not victimized by. You're feeling like you don't have economic opportunity if you're actually equipped with the tools at a young age to be able to. Be able to begin to do it. Physical education, I mean, we talk about that, you know, in my own life, just in the way that makes me feel good as a, as a functioning human every day. But to give every kid that experience and the toolkit to know about what their own, with their own physical limitations are, but also what their own physical education can do to help them be a better thinker and a more healthy individual as they grow up, start that at a young age. I think there's also an interesting opportunity now to think about even implementing AI proficiency, AI literacy as early as high school. I wouldn't say kindergarten for that, kindergarten for financial literacy and physical education, but for AI literacy and preparedness for future of enhanced productivity. I want to prepare our kids for it, but they're only going to be able to take advantage of that new era of productivity if they're actually participating in what that future economy looks like.

[Sage Steele]

Like.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And so I think that education system going back to being one that celebrates and even venerates and prioritizes success and ambition and achievement over mediocrity and victimization, that I think is a big part of where it begins. I mean, nothing substitutes for the family. But public policy can't necessarily fix the way a family operates under its own roof. That's going to have to come from. From deeper cultural change. But public policy can and definitely ought to affect the way our education system functions. And that's one of the reasons I finally came down on the side of making the decision to run for governor, because that is where, by the way, education policy is set. It's not set by the federal government. It's set at the level of the states. And so one of the things I'd love to see here is an education system in Ohio that actually empowers every kid to be able to achieve the success that I have, not by villainizing it, not by penalizing it, but by participating in it.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And that's something I think that the best thing we could do for our country in this moment of need would be in our own state to demonstrate an example of what educational achievement and the revival of ambition and the revival of achievement actually looks like by using our schools as the vehicle to accomplish that for our kids.

[Sage Steele]

I've heard you talk a lot about teachers as well. And you know, one of my frustrations as a mom through it for all those years was tenure. And certainly it can be useful and helpful and deserving for some, but the problem is there's too many others that almost abuse it. And then the schools have their. And the administrators and the people in charge, boards of education have their hands tied and can't hold people accountable. And all that does is what it hurts our children. How do we make it more incentive based, I guess, for children, for teachers and performance based on the test scores that their kids are turning out based on what they've taught them? How is that something that can be turned.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Oh, absolutely. And not even tied to just test scores, but more Holistically, I guess the way to think about this is you would never run a business without any performance management system.

[Sage Steele]

Right?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

To say that whether you're an employee, whether you remain hired or not, whether you're paid more or not, whether you get a bonus or not, is completely agnostic to your performance. You would never run a business that way. If you did, I would predict that business wouldn't last very long. And yet that's exactly the way that our public schools are run today. In a business, you would draw some differentiation between the employees who are doing a good job versus not through career advancement opportunities, through financial incentives, through bonuses, through firing versus hiring. None of that exists in the way the public schools across our country sage are run today. And so I want to set up a different model in the state of Ohio where we say that we actually prioritize performance and rewarding good performance in our public schools. Not just by creating incentives to teach to the test, but holistic assessments of performance, 360° of peer assessments amongst teachers, principals as well, fostering and rewarding teamwork where necessary. Parental assessments. Parents often know whether their kids are thriving in the classroom or not. And then, yes, some student outcome based performance as well. Not in a way that just rewards. And this is one of the, you know, immediate potential objections which I think is a good objection if you do this the wrong way, which is just the wealthier school districts are going to be rewarded if they're benchmarked against the same criteria as a poorer school district. That'd be a silly way to do it versus looking in trust school. Right? What the level of improvement is from the beginning of the school year to the end, actually that might create an argument actually to attract, for more teachers to be attracted to schools with a lower starting baseline where they have an opportunity to deliver and demonstrate more improvement over the course of that year. So these are common sense reforms, I think that are common sense reforms. Yeah. It's not so much about left versus right, it's about common sense. As I say, it's about up versus down. But I think we have to have the courage to take that on. And if you see, you know, whoever it might be, teachers unions or whatever that at least early signals would suggest are opposed to anything resembling what you and I are talking about right now. You got to ask yourself whether that's a broken incentive system. If somebody's standing in the way of an education system that is failing when the average student in China is four years ahead and in Singapore's five years ahead of an average student in the United States, that's unacceptable. That, that's the failure of that culture of ambition that I was talking about earlier. Reviving that ambition. I think the best place to do it in a positive way that lifts us all up is in reviving the ambition of achievement in our education system. And that's something I'm intent on doing in our state of Ohio.

[Sage Steele]

It seems like such a daunting task when you talk about, you know, the comparison of the test scores, all of the STEM programs throughout the country.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And any, any country in Asia, it seems. How quickly ideally can those scores begin to be turned around so American children are competing because right now it's not even close.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I think over a decade and a half was the time horizon we're talking about, which is, which is long, but not that long. I think it's an achievable change. The problem with the decade and a half is it falls outside of the normal two year election cycles that guide our modern politics. And I think we need leaders who are willing to think on the timescales of history rather than the timescales of yesterday or tomorrow. And I think that's a big part of where having non career politicians helps. If that's your career and your own career and your dependence, your sense of financial worth and even your sense of, of self worth comes from occupying that office rather than myriad other things that you could be doing with your life, then your incentive structures to work on time horizons that relate to the next election cycle. But if you're really, you know, if you're not dependent on that as your career path, or you see that as a form of temporary service that you're willing to do, then, you know, what would be the point of doing the whole short term game anyway? You're in this for the long run, think long run for the future of the country. And so for me, the education system, the time horizon we're talking about is a decade or decade and a half. I think we can turn that ship around. It's not going to be overnight. I think you will be able to see improvements at Steps along the way. There's one school in Ohio actually that did adopt, interestingly enough about 10 years ago, merit based pay, performance based outcomes for teachers, this public school, and in that case, and I hope it's able to work out this way, the teachers unions were able to get to a reasonable place where in that particular school they agreed to it with a heavy vocational emphasis in that school, I kid you not, night and day, this Is a school in Clyde, Ohio, night and day Differences over a 10 year time horizon in graduation rates, retention rates, job placement rates, how well the students are doing. And even the best teachers are now doing better in that really as well. So it's not overnight, but it is something that happens steadily. It's exactly what you would predict is if you bring performance management, you're going to have better performance in a business every bit as you would in the education system. Not in a short sighted way. Not in a way that just incentivizes teachers to just artificially teach to the test, but in a holistic sense.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yes, we ought to prioritize performance. Yes, we ought to celebrate success and performance and reward that success. And I think it's a pretty common sense reform that. It's really remarkable that not a single one of our 50 states does it today. And I would like for Ohio to be a model of what that looks like for the future, please.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, let's go.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You know, I mean if people, we talk so much about kids and children being the priority, but our actions say otherwise.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And this would be an incredible way to do that. So if I say top three priorities in this campaign to be governor of Ohio. Education.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Give me the education number one. Number two is the economic burden of taxation in our state. People move to Florida, they move to Texas, they move to Tennessee. That's going to stop on my watch. We're going to bring down property taxes and we're going to eliminate eventually to zero the income tax in Ohio, the state income tax. Easy wins.

[Sage Steele]

You're going to be one of us. Yeah, Florida. I'm in Florida and Tennessee all the time.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Absolutely. And in fact, you gotta, you know, neighbors right here, even in the community where we live who spend six months in a day in Florida.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's not for the weather, it's for the taxes. Okay. As you can see, it's as warm here today as it is in Florida. It's. But I think we can easily turn that ship around and it's actually going to come at a revenue and an economic boost to the state of Ohio starting with zero capital gains taxation is the first step to get there. It's a little technical, but if you don't tax capital gains, the state doesn't even get that much revenue from capital gains taxation. And yet if we become a zero capital gains tax, state capital owners from across the country are going to choose Ohio as the place to own those assets. So that's. Number one is, is education relieve economic burden created by the government through the form of taxation. And then number three is automatically consequence of number two, turn around this depopulation problem we have have where people are having fewer kids. We have more people moving out of our state right now than moving in. And the people who are moving out are the ones who actually tend to be our younger, educated citizens. The people moving in tend to be on average, older and on government age. We're going to turn that around. So I want to have a population boom of patriots across this country who not only remain in Ohio, but even from other states move into Ohio to pursue their American dream here. Population, education, taxation, and relatedly our energy policy. Those are my priorities. Common sense stuff. I think that if explained directly to most people in the state, I think 80 plus percent of people in the state would agree with me on those issues and would want, I think, a businessman and an outsider and an entrepreneur and if I may say, from a new generation, maybe of leadership. We don't have a tradition of younger leaders in our state. That's going to change hopefully next year when I'm elected. That's the kind of positive spirit that I want to bring that doesn't devolve into yesterday's R versus D tug of war. That's kind of boring to me. It's uninteresting. But I think what we're able to accomplish is far more interesting and energizing, and that's what's top priority for me.

[Sage Steele]

You've used that common sense phrase since the moment I saw you publicly. President Trump has. I mean, the Republican Party certainly has, and I think it has worked quite.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Common sense started the American Revolution, by the way, literally. Thomas Paine, the pamphlets that he distributed were called common sense. And in some sense it's a native intuitive understanding of, of our country's culture. And, you know, part of that common sense is also that for those who do disagree with what I have to say, I would love nothing more than the next year of this campaign being weighted more heavily towards me having constructive, at times, even, even challenging conversations with people who may disagree with me or on some of those objectives or how we want to get there. I think that would be a campaign successfully run is if we're able to actually speak to not just the people who are, you know, which I believe are the majority of Ohioans who are behind my vision and already vote for me, but the minority of Ohioans who actually disagree at least think they disagree. To be able to have that open dialogue. That too, to me, is part of.

[Sage Steele]

The same Common sense conversation.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sage Steele]

Again, what a concept.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Exactly.

[Sage Steele]

More of that. You mentioned common sense. Well, you're number two with the financial aspect. That. That to me, is so much common sense on the national level. You took that and what you did immediately after President Trump was inaugurated with. With Doge. People were desperate to see some accountability there.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Sure. And still are.

[Sage Steele]

Please. Still, there's still a lot of room, still a lot of work that has. That must be done.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

How successful do you believe that was while you were a part of doge?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, look, I was there for the first two and a half months. Helped get it off the ground.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

You know, obviously, I'm a guy, as I said earlier, even starting my companies, who has my unique vision. And one of the things I've. I would say that President Trump, Elon and I all have in common is that. That none of us make for a particularly good number two. But I was glad to be as helpful as I could to be able to at least get some ideas in the mix for what success could look like. Right. Through deregulation, in particular. And then if you're cutting costs, I think you got to go through legislation to be able to actually achieve that. You know, left my imprint on it. But at the same time, at the end of those two and a half months and they were working around the clock, did as much as we could. For me, the right next step was what became clear was a lot of those actual reforms needed to be actually delivered by the states. So you think about some of that deregulation. One of the ways that you can actually effectively achieve deregulation is if you're a state that's actually even in some ways, challenging a federal regulation that allows the federal regulation potentially to be annulled in court en masse. That's an exciting way to do it, but you got to be a state leader rather than a federal leader to do it.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Look at what's happening with the Department of Education, which I was able to help set a vision for at the beginning of. And. And Linda McMahon, the current secretary of Education, is doing a great job. I've spoken to her about, you know, the ways that this could happen, of returning that to the states, into the people. That's a great first step. But again, it became clear to me that we're only going to fix education in this country, not just by not dismantling the Department of Education, but by sending it to the states. You're going to need leaders at the states to actually set a vision for what that educational system looks like. So both personally, in terms of somebody who's myself, an entrepreneur, you know, I'm made to, you know, lead with my own vision, but to combine that with also the importance of what state leadership actually looks like led me at the end of those two and a half months to say that my next step is to lead my home state, lead from the front. And that's my best contribution that I'm going to be able to make to the country while supporting President Trump, to be able to do everything he ran on, to be able to deliver on it.

[Sage Steele]

That competitive side that you have where you're like, we're, you know, it's all or nothing.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Win or lose. Did you win? Do you feel like you won during your time there? Because it sounds like there's obviously things.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

That I would say that I would say that story is. Is yet to be. Is still playing out as we speak. And for me, winning is going to look like what we accomplish here in Ohio. And what we accomplish in Ohio isn't just for Ohio Sage. It's actually going to be for the country by setting a model of how that's done. So both when I'm leading Ohio, our relationship with the federal government, I think, is going to be really a positive where my first two years as governor, actually President Trump's last two years as US President, and when I look at a lot of those federal regulations that even address the state of Ohio, some of the things that we're going to do to actually put pressure on those federal regulations are exactly the kinds of things that good people in the Trump administration want to get done.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

But may not be able to get done top down, but are able to get done with the state that's challenging those regs. So I'm not going to go into overall specifics of. Of which ones, but. But, you know, you could think about the nuclear. I'll give you one example, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Right. So I want Ohio to be a home and a hub for small modular nuclear reactors. Part of, I think, the future energy solutions that makes our state a leading state in the country and in the world. Some of that's getting state regulations out of the way, but some of that's federal regulations. So what could a governor do about it? I think a lot of those regulations at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission at the federal level today are actually unconstitutional because Congress never passed them, but they're still sitting there on the books. So that requires someone coming in to say, okay, well, we got to cross out those regs that were never constitutionally ordained because of competing priorities that isn't currently apparently necessarily happening at the scale that we might need. President Trump's made some good, good broad proclamations on the need for nuclear energy. But a state can actually help make the difference by challenging those regs.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And working with a friendly administration to then get those actually annulled in a way that leads to a positive small modular nuclear reactor. Boom. So that's an example of the kind of thing that we actually would be even better equipped to be able to achieve bottom up. What does that look like to me? Did we win or did we succeed? I'll be able to answer that question for you a year into, maybe even six months into 2027 when I take office. But mid-2027, I hope my answer to that question for you is a resounding yes. I'm confident that it will be. But I'm going to wait till we actually have the accomplishments to back that up to be able to give you that clear answer.

[Sage Steele]

And forgive me for not knowing, like, what does that look like in your conversations? And Connie, we're going to start to wrap it up. Look like eyeballs. I see you. Yeah, the, those conversations. When you're leading a state with the current administration in Washington, D.C. i mean, how.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, I think most of that is going to be internal state governance. But a big part of that, I think, is going to be a collaborative relationship with the leadership at the federal level and with the cabinet secretaries as well. And the fact that I'm going in with good relationships with most, if not all of the, I would probably say all of those folks at this point, that actually empowers us to be more successful than a governor might be if he's operating with an administration that's more hostile to our agenda. I think that constrains your ability to be fully successful. But if you're really broadly aligned, at least with certain objectives, or at least you could be the entrepreneur that helps the federal government get out of the way if you have a willing federal government to do that, that makes my job as a governor a heck of a lot easier, enhances the probability of success in making Ohio the top state in the country. And, and I don't say that lightly, but my goal is to lead this state, not to be one of the better states in the Midwest, but to be in many domains, the top state in the United States. I love what Florida's done. I love what Texas has done, but I don't want our state to be living in the shadow of a Texas or Florida. I want to be leading from the front, not just for the state of Ohio, but by doing it for the state of Ohio, doing it for the country, and setting a model for what's possible in the United States of America.

[Sage Steele]

From a big picture perspective. And as just an American citizen who loves this country, I'm an army brat. So much pride in what we've done and still have so many opportunities to do. I think it's tough right now in the Republican Party in particular, because right now, now we're in charge. Right. That you feel like you have to pick and choose so much. The other day, I think we talked about this earlier. You can be so happy and so proud of the accomplishments that the Trump administration has already had. I mean, it is insane again, what this administration has done in the first six months, never been done before, and be frustrated and not happy with other things. And for me, the list is long. Immigration, men out of women's sports, what happened in Iran and Israel, et cetera. And for example, for me right now, the way it has been handled with the Epstein files and Pam Bondi and Cash Patel and Dan Bongino and all of you, I don't know all the innards. And guess what? Most Americans don't. So if you're in my position, I'm not a politician and I'm just, I'm studying for sure. But seeing it, what is that balance?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, you know, again, I talked about this earlier. I don't like that word, balance anyway. Right. Just throw the balance.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, fine.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And instead I think that what I would love to see is a revival of just. It's a cultural attribute in the country of just intellectual curiosity.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I mean, think about our founders. They're curious. Right. So I think bring back a curiosity of it from the media perspective too.

[Sage Steele]

But my point is that if I can't. That if I should be able to question and say, hey, I love you and this is awesome and what happened here, and there should be some accountability in those questions.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Of course you should be able to do that because for four years that, I mean, that was. You think about back to 2021, what was the problem? If you said something on the Internet, that was the wrong view, whatever, you were censored. We had a culture of censorship in the country. So now liberated from that, it would be a shame to have achieved that victory if we really didn't fully benefit from free discourse. And so I think our countries at our best, when you have a media that certainly when I'm in office here in the state of Ohio. I expect and would hope for the same and same thing for our federal government. We are at our best when we have a media that is actually objective, critical and curious about what the government, the people in power actually say ought to be, ought to be done. I think that that's what makes America great. And I think that's part of our spirit that we want to continue to cultivate is free and open thought, free and open discourse. And I think for the, that's, that's from a media landscape perspective, but even from a Republican Party perspective, I'd give you one additional thought which is that we've gotten accustomed, right. It's kind of a muscle memory. We've built up to just slamming everything the Democrats did.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And that was necessary when the Democrats were actually in power and ruining the country, but now they're not. Republicans control all three branches of the federal government in my home state, all three branches of the state government. At a certain point, we got to now get accustomed to saying, okay, here's what we actually stand for. Here's actually what our alternative vision is of restoring an American dream where somebody who works hard and plays by the rules is able to live a good worthy economic life and own a home and start a family with actual sense of economic security and their kids are getting the world class education that's the birthright of every American. Here's what we're doing to make that vision a reality rather than re drudging up Yesterday's battles of 2021 or 2022 that are mostly, not entirely, but mostly behind us. I think sometimes you see this in the non profit world, but you see in the political world too. People get addicted to the problems they wanted to solve because in some sense they're afraid. Well, what happens when that disappears? I have nothing left to talk about. Actually, the better thing we ought to do is focus on our vision of the future and where we're headed. And I think that there's, I say this in advance of 2026. I think if we're able to do that in the next year and a half, we're going to be wildly successful in 2026. If we continue to try to re litigate 2021 and 2022, which is already behind us when we're already in power. I don't think that's going to be a successful or persuasive strategy. And so for my part, in the way I'm leading here in Ohio and the way I'M running this campaign. I'll try to set a good example of what that looks like. Is it's not about what we're running from anymore. Right. If we're talking about Biden six months from now, we miss the plot.

[Sage Steele]

True. They did a great job of that three years in talking about the previous administration.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Let's not. Let's not. Let's not do that.

[Sage Steele]

Okay?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

We're not that. Let's be better than that and say that, you know, for the first hundred days, whatever, you get a little bit of grace to be able to say, okay, well, here's what the prior administration left us. Okay, now we're kind of done with that as far as I'm concerned. Now it's time to just say, what do we actually stand for? What are we actually going to achieve to improve the economic plight and the educational plight of Americans and their kids? That, I think, is the number one question we're going to do about the national debt crisis. What are we going to do about a country where kids growing up today are going to be saddled with more national debt and frankly, an inability to stand up on their own two feet without dependence on a federal entitlement state? What are we going to do to address those actual issues, to educationally empower our youth to be independent from their government? And that's the work we have cut out ahead of us. And I think the more we're focused on that future, the more successful we're going to be. And, you know, I can't make a promise on behalf of, you know, candidates across the country, but I'll make a promise on behalf of myself that we'll set an example here in Ohio for what that actually looks like?

[Sage Steele]

I have to ask you on a personal level, do I need to drop it? Do I need to not care because Bondi and everybody says it's over and the investigation's over? Should I not care about getting answers on something that has been discussed throughout the campaign with. With.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

You should follow. You should. Here's what I would say, Sages, you should follow your North Star. If that's something you believe is important. And transparency, you should stay out of it.

[Sage Steele]

The American people. This is something that was discussed throughout the campaign. We know the last administration did nothing with it. I believe it is important for the authenticity of this administration, the transparency of this administration, to at least give. Give some answers as to what happened. Why is it all of a sudden gone? To me, that's where you lose the trust in people. And this is why There's a independent journalist.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

As an independent journalist, it is not your job to do my bidding or anybody else's bidding as a leader. It's to ask the questions that you believe deserve to be answered, to offer your perspective in a critical manner. And any journalist who's doing that from the left wing or right wing leaning perspective, I celebrate that because I think it makes our country better.

[Sage Steele]

It does.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And so I would say that you don't, as somebody who is an independent media figure. Right. We use that word. You don't owe anybody any answers for you don't. You don't owe anything to anybody else who's in power other than to helping the people who listen to you get to what's actually true and important. So do you want to know?

[Sage Steele]

What do you, do you want to know?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, I ran for president. I was very clear about where I was on that. Right. I was. I was crystal clear and transparent on it. Now I'm leading Ohio. As I said, I'm less focused on what moving the needle from an increment of some federal issue versus focus on what is going to help me succeed here. I'm focused on education. I'm focused on economic empowerment in Ohio, reversing our population decline. As I told you earlier, one of my learnings from the last campaign was focus is the mother of success. That's where I'm focused. That's where the people need me here to focus and deliver. But what I will say is I was pretty clear when I ran for president what I believe is the job of a government. And I stand by everything I said on, you know, government accountability in my last campaign.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I'm just focused on my next mission and that's where I'm at.

[Sage Steele]

Stupid question. Maybe not. Teachers say there's no such thing. When you're governor, what happens with the business sector? Like, are you still allowed to go create amazing companies? I mean, do you.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Well, I would say that as a matter of time management.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I'm not gonna be able to do that. So this is a matter of time management. Yeah, exactly. And so I like the stage that I'm at is most of the businesses that I've built are already at a stage where they're operating, you know, on their own feet. Well, without my involvement. And I want the youngest of those companies as well to get to that same place. But for me, it's actually kind of cool this, in this last window to kind of savor and relish.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

What that part of my career has been because I Know that once I become governor, you know that chapter is going to be turned off for, for quite a long time. We're talking about, you know, multi year, multi, potentially multi decade time horizon. And so I'm enjoying the last bit of that.

[Sage Steele]

You're about to turn 40, 10 years from now, I'm gonna come knock on your door. I don't know if you'll still be in this house. You might not answer. What does that look like? What do you hope to have accomplished 10 years from now, hitting 50?

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's a good question, Sage. Maybe I'll. Maybe you've given me some food for thought because I'm at a stage in my life where I'm not, I'm not thinking about it that way. Right when I was 20, I could have. Would have given you a clear answer for what that looked like in 30, because that was a phase of my life where I was kind of planning and plotting it all out. And one of the things I've learned is that it never went according to that plan anyway. Right. You know, and so I've gained a somewhat of a little bit of humility from that, that whatever I might map out today to tell you the way I'm going to map it out between now and age 50 is not going to go according to that plan. But what I hope I'm able to say, whatever that plan is, whatever the exact accomplishments are, I hope things I'm able to say is that I was a good father during that time, instilling in my kids the values that allowed them to stand on their own two feet and live a more fulfilling life even than I've been able to, that I've been able to as a leader of a state and a volunteer. That's one thing I know I'm going to do in the next decade. To be able to create an environment where parents like me are able to say the same thing about their kids. And to be able to look back and say that at the age of 40, I'm feeling the sense of gratitude for all of the gifts that the state in this country have given me and the, the really blessed life that my family and I are able to enjoy. That at the age of 50, I'm able to say that I did my part to be able to pay that forward, to be able to give back has a backward looking connotation. But I would say pay forward for so many others. To be able to live that same blessed life, that same blessed American dream, that I did my part to be able to actually Work hard to be able to leave it all on the table, to be able to make, at times, necessary sacrifices along the way that a lot of other people, maybe millions of other people, maybe tens of millions of other people are able to live that same blessed life in American Dream that I did, that actually did my part. And today what I could say is proud of my accomplishments. And, you know, you know, a lot of that's allowed me to achieve success. And there have been many other people who have benefited from that along the way. But as a matter of true service, have I done the maximal thing that allows as many other people to live that dream as possible? That's what I hope I'm able to say 10 years from now beyond what I can say today.

[Sage Steele]

My mother told me something in college when I was going through something brutal. And I. And I was broken and in bed and thought my life was over because it wasn't going the way I drew it up. And she gave me this little framed picture, and I still have it. And it's been 30 years. It says, if you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I love that.

[Sage Steele]

It's.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

You still have it.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, I love that.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

If you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans. Yeah. Your plans are silly.

[Sage Steele]

They are.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Your plans are silly.

[Sage Steele]

And if you believe in a God and have a faith, whatever that is, plans are silly.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

It's a good life.

[Sage Steele]

Actually. The plan's already there.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So what? Are we going to be able to step back and be quiet and. Okay, sage. Meditate for 8 minutes without letting other things and listen and receive it, and then follow that while making adjustments along the way. But. But to listen.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

And it's actually the heart of my faith, by the way. And that's a theological discussion for another day. But I mean, the idea that it is actually you doing it anyway is a kind of hubris. And it's. And it's not. It's not true. Right. At best, we're. And I believe it is at our best, that we're, you know, vehicles for a higher plan that reveals itself. And for me, that's a source of freedom, actually. And some people may say that's constraining your freedom because it's not, you know, actually, it's the deepest form of freedom. And, you know, you do your part in our faith. We call it our dharma or our duty, but you do your part and the plan reveals itself. And the idea of making your plan might give God a good laugh. I like that.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And it almost brings peace about you to realize it's not all you let go. And thank you during your campaign. And I know you're going to continue to talk about faith and to not be afraid to say the word God and God bless America.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Absolutely.

[Sage Steele]

It's been. It's been so refreshing in that way. Next time I want to talk about just that, because to me, there was always a fear to go there.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Yeah. God's the place to go. And there's. There's a fine line between doing it in some sort of like, weird virtue signaling kind of way versus just in a personal. It's just important to me. It's just important to me. Become more important to me. I think as I've become a parent and just become older and had more life experiences, that that has become a greater source of freedom for me, is the reminder that that higher being resides in all of us, works through us. And that, to me, is a source of freedom.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you for all that you've done, honestly, from day one for so many people. And I keep learning about the specifics of those drugs that are literally changing and saving lives. So thank you so much and for letting me go. The beginning make you uncomfortable.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I like it.

[Sage Steele]

Talking about yourself and the socks. It's. And the socks. Absolutely. And God bless this beautiful growing family of yours.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Thank you.

[Sage Steele]

It really is awesome to see. So thank you. And we will see you in office.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

Thanks for coming over to our home. I appreciate it.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you. Thank you. You can keep the socks. I don't want them back.

[Vivek Ramaswamy]

I was kidding. I wouldn't blame you. Especially after that, you know, tennis and workout, you know. Yeah, it.