What Happens When Culture and Beliefs Collide? | Sage Steele Show | EP 77

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sage Steele Show, EP 77

Title: What Happens When Culture and Beliefs Collide?
Date: October 15, 2025
Guests: Sage Steele (Host), Allie Beth Stuckey (Conservative commentator, podcaster, author)

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Main Theme & Overview

This episode brings together Sage Steele and Allie Beth Stuckey for a candid, wide-ranging conversation on the intersection of personal beliefs, culture, faith, and modern societal challenges—particularly from the perspective of conservative Christian women. Their discussion traverses topics from marriage dynamics to parenting, shame and forgiveness, faith journeys, controversial cultural issues (abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty), and the impact of influencer loss (notably Charlie Kirk). The conversation is marked by humor, vulnerability, and scriptural reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marriage Partnerships and Role Dynamics

• Allie’s Work & Family Balance:
  Allie details collaborating with her husband Timothy, who left his finance job to manage her business and enable her creative work, especially after their third child ([03:41]).
• Tradition vs. Modernity:
  Sage and Allie address role reversals and what it means to have the woman be public-facing or the primary earner. Allie credits Timothy’s leadership for giving her the security to be outspoken ([09:05]).
• Quote:
  “He is who made me feel that I had the ability and the safety to go forward to say controversial things.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([10:16])
• Mutual Support in Marriage:
  Both guests describe leaning on their husbands as trusted sounding boards and allies for public life risks ([13:14]).

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2. The Worth of Motherhood & Evolving Gender Conversations

• Reframing Value:
  Discussion around Harrison Butker’s controversial comments on women’s roles and the backlash they faced. Allie upholds the honor in motherhood and wifehood as underappreciated callings ([16:09]).
• Balance and Economy:
  Allie emphasizes that biblical femininity historically included women contributing to their “family economy”—not being siloed as “just a wife or mom” ([18:34]).
• Quote:
  “Different doesn’t mean unequal when we’re talking about men and women.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([18:32])

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3. Advice to Young Women: Timing, Faith, and Self-Forgiveness

• Delaying Dating:
  Allie cautions against high school dating and encourages investing in friendships and readiness for marriage over peer culture ([27:51]).
• Avoiding Idolizing Marriage:
  Allie advises finding joy in current seasons rather than pinning purpose on future relationships ([23:43]).
• Shame and Moving On:
  They discuss forgiving oneself after mistakes, with Allie rooting freedom in God’s forgiveness rather than self-redemption ([31:13], [34:02]).
• Quote:
  “The self can’t be both the problem and the solution.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([34:03])

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4. Struggles with Mental Health and Body Image

• Allie’s Story:
  She opens up about battling anorexia and bulimia after a college breakup—even as a believing Christian ([34:02]–[39:00]). Her recovery was catalyzed by a blunt counseling intervention and “the grace of God.”
• Sin vs. Struggle:
  Allie classifies her eating disorder as a form of idolatry and sin—a rebellion against honoring the body as God’s temple—but recognizes nuance and complexity ([42:07]–[46:50]).

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5. Faith Traditions: Evangelical vs. Catholic Perspectives

• Scripture Engagement:
  Allie and Sage express differences between evangelical and Catholic upbringings, particularly regarding Bible literacy and memorization ([46:53]–[57:12]).
  • “We can debate about a lot of stuff, but it’s gonna take a lot to out-Bible an evangelical.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([54:33])
• Spiritual Growth & Never Too Late:
  Sage shares starting a new chapter of faith at 52, with her husband—reinforcing that journeys are individualized and ongoing ([59:33]).
  • “There's no such thing as late with God. He's never late.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([59:38])

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6. Courage, Conviction, and Speaking Truth Publicly

• Practicing Bravery:
  Allie recalls her fears about first addressing gay marriage in public, learning that “you're not nicer than God” and that clarity is a gift in an era of confusion ([67:32]–[68:41], [71:12]).
• Quote:
  “Clarity is a gift, and so many people are hungry for that right now.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([71:12])
• The Harder Right:
  Sage invokes the West Point cadet prayer: “Make me choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong,” applying it across life ([69:12]).

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7. Hot-Button Issues: Swift, Parenting, Death Penalty, and Gay Marriage

Taylor Swift as a Role Model

• Allie critiques Taylor Swift’s current lyrics as sexually explicit and inappropriate for young girls; she encourages parents to be vigilant about cultural influences ([79:54]–[82:10]).
  • “We shouldn’t be encouraging our daughters to be entertained by the things that Christ died for.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([81:21])

Phones and Social Media

• Importance of delayed phone access for kids and setting parental limits, especially in the digital era ([84:05]–[85:38]).

Death Penalty & Abortion

• Allie stands by the biblical permissibility of the death penalty (citing Genesis 9), arguing that valuing innocent life—including being anti-abortion—can coexist with support for capital punishment for murderers ([76:09]–[78:02]).
  • “The death penalty is actually mercy for the person who raped and murdered that child. It's not cruel.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([77:54])

Gay Marriage

• Allie upholds a biblical definition of marriage (one man, one woman), while also describing friendships with gay individuals and the difficulty of balancing love and affirmation ([87:02]–[90:48]).
  • “If God says it… that’s the most loving thing you can do. And that takes practice.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([68:31])

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8. Loss of Charlie Kirk & Legacy

• Allie and Sage reflect movingly on the assassination of their friend Charlie Kirk, the wave of spiritual revival his death catalyzed, and the personal impact on their courage and public engagement ([93:36]–[103:46]).
  • “It’s taken, like, a hundred of us to try to fill in for all the different things that Charlie was doing.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([94:55])
• Emphasis on carrying on his legacy of “keep slugging” and not giving into fear.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Feeling Safe in Marriage:
  “He makes you feel safe.” – Sage Steele ([13:14])
• Advice for Young Women:
  “It is better to be single and sad than married and trapped.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([23:43])
• Forgiveness and Shame:
  “Don’t look to yourself… when we look to the cross, which doesn’t change… the burden comes off of ourselves.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([31:13])
• Clarity on Sin:
  “Sin is not just something that affects someone else or hurts someone else… It starts with the heart.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([44:16])
• Public Faith Journeys:
  “You gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable.” – Sage Steele ([65:16])
• On Sharing Truth:
  “You're not nicer than God, and you're not gonna out love and out compassion God by disagreeing with him.” – Allie Beth Stuckey ([68:31])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Allie on Creative Balance & Timothy’s Role: [03:41]
• Marriage Role Dynamics & Feeling Safe: [09:05]
• Courage to Speak Publicly (Butker, Kirk): [15:46]
• Women's Worth, Motherhood, Family Economy: [16:09]–[19:46]
• Advice for Young Women on Dating: [27:51]
• Shame, Forgiveness, Mental Health: [31:13]–[39:00]
• Evangelical vs. Catholic Upbringing: [46:53]–[57:12]
• Faith Journey After 50: [59:33]
• Bravery and First Public Stances: [67:32]–[68:41]
• Taylor Swift, Parenting in the Digital Age: [79:54]–[85:38]
• Abortion, Death Penalty, and the Pope: [76:09]
• Gay Marriage & Loving Without Affirming: [87:02]
• Reflections on Charlie Kirk’s Death and Legacy: [93:36]–[103:46]

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Tone & Style

True to both hosts, the tone is earnest, conversational, and occasionally playful, alternating between deep spiritual insights and everyday humor. The honesty in sharing personal struggles (from Allie’s eating disorder to Sage’s faith milestones) is disarming and relatable.

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Summary Takeaways

• Root yourself in scripture and convictions, but lead every relationship with compassion and trust in God’s timing.
• Parenting and public engagement in today’s culture require vigilance, humility, and bravery.
• Clarity and truth, especially on uncomfortable cultural topics, can be gifts—but come with a cost and require support systems.
• The power of legacy and friendship, especially after loss, is transformative in motivating ongoing public witness and engagement.

This episode is essential listening for anyone grappling with the intersection of personal faith, public life, and cultural friction, especially for women navigating tradition, belief, and modernity.

Transcript

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

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[Sage Steele]

Description about today's guest on my show. She is a conservative commentator, podcaster and author who has gained recognition for her views on faith, culture and politics. And has she ever Allie Bet Stuckey. And she wouldn't change anything about all the recognition that she has gained from this journey of hers to speak the truth based on biblical scripture. We went everywhere about her upbringing as an evangelical Christian, her, her time in college, mental health, physical health struggles. How about all the issues of today from gay marriage to abortion to not letting your daughters listen to Taylor Swift. You name it, we went there. I gotta tell ya, I was educated by Ali Beth and her deep knowledge of the Bible, which affects, of course, her perspective on life. It was a beautiful conversation, one that I feel more informed after sitting down with her. Always loved her from afar and certainly now from up close and personal as well. I think you will also on this edition of the Sage Deal Show. This is my obsession. I brought you socks. You brought me socks because look how cute.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I love socks.

[Sage Steele]

I literally have had RFK Jr. In a suit with fuzzy socks on.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Okay, you know what? I appreciate that because I'm still haunted by the video or picture I saw of RFK Jr. On a plane barefoot. Do you remember that?

[Sage Steele]

Was that when he had the McDonald's?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That was when he was campaigning and he walked out of an airplane bathroom. I'm sorry, but he didn't have shoes on. And maybe he. If he had had your fuzzy socks, he would have at least been wearing socks.

[Sage Steele]

Based on that, I would never voted for him. If you are going into. And I don't care if it's a private plane. I don't care. A airplane lavatory. It's not a bathroom.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Like without shoes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I know.

[Sage Steele]

Mr. HHS. Let's be healthy.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Straight to jail. Straight to jail. Yes.

[Sage Steele]

No. $200. So I put them on. I don't force people, but I literally.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

This is.

[Sage Steele]

This is my thing. Thanks for watching Ellen.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Oh, you're welcome. I'm not gonna take off my cowboy boots and socks on camera.

[Sage Steele]

Why?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, I don't know. I just don't want to you don't.

[Sage Steele]

Want to be on, like, Wikipedia.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. No, I'm already on wiki feet. Okay. Unfortunately, anyone who has ever worn sandals on the. Is on wiki too. I know.

[Sage Steele]

It's so sick.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

So. But I do think I have a 5 out of 5 rating, so thank y' all for that.

[Sage Steele]

Well, your husband's right over here, so that's what I show. Can you confirm her? I'm kidding. No, it's. It's because I. I mean, my whole life, I. I would get cozy and comfy on a couch with my kids. That's when I would get them to talk. I'd be like, sit on the couch, let's talk. Yes. Or girlfriends.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And so that's where it started. Okay. You can keep them.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Thank you.

[Sage Steele]

No peer pressure.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I love the little Daisy on there. Well, thank you. I'm a Texas girl. You're a Tex girl, so I have to always wear my boots.

[Sage Steele]

I love. I love that you're. That you're home in Texas and you. You get to do this. That would be my dream, would be to be able to be close to family.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And still do what I want for a living.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Yeah. It's been really great. My husband and I work together full time. And. And that started at the beginning of 2024, after we had our third. Yeah. We just, like, he had his full time finance job and I was trying to do the podcast and of course, be a present mom. And it was just like we were like rowing in two different boats in two different directions sometimes. Even though we've always been on the same team and have loved being together, it was just too much like he had to travel for his work. I would have a speaking engagement. It just wasn't sustainable. So after we had our third, which was. We were like, last summer, it was 2023. 23. 2023. Yes. That we had our third. We were like, okay, something's got to give. And I was like, I could quit. And he was like, why don't you do that? He was like, no, consider that I would have been willing to, like, take a break or to step back or something. It just wasn't sustainable, the pace that we were going. And it's most important for us to be present parents and. But also, like, everything was falling by the wayside. I mean, we talked about this before the camera started rolling. Just the organization factor of trying to be there for your kids and do everything that they need to do, but answering emails, carrying out your responsibilities and the. Answering the emails and the carrying out the responsibilities at work was, like, barely happening. So when Timothy announced, we told people, okay, he's gonna be like my business manager and he's gonna come in and actually make the ideas I have happened. Everyone was so excited who works with me, they're like, yes, we're finally gonna get a text back. We're gonna get a response to our emails. Things are gonna happen. And that's exactly what he's done. He's made things happen that would not have happened otherwise. They would have just stayed in my head forever because I didn't have time.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh. This is music to my ears.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And I have such guilt for not being able to answer texts and emails from friends, from loved ones, from potential business opportunities, like, so many things. And I hate that it seems like I'm insensitive or rude. I just can't. I can't.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And now you have Timothy.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

And so did you feel that same way where you were just spinning and of course, you're a young mom.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I've always, I've kind of never been great at answering texts and things. It's. I'm. You might be the same way where you read it and you kind of respond in your head or you're like, I'm driving or I'm doing something, I just can't respond. And then it would just never happen. And then it. It's so long and like since you've responded to that person that you almost feel awkward texting them about something else. And so you just avoid it forever. Yes. So Timothy has just been huge in helping me with all of that. But there are so many different aspects that he helps with. I mean, security, our events, all of the people that are like, need to be managed and communicated. He handles all of that. And that just helps me be a lot more present in all of my different spheres. And I'm just, I'm like, I'm a creative person. I like doing that. I don't like managing people. I don't like doing schedules. I don't like the details. I like thinking and talking and creating. Yes. Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Having. Okay, you are. You know, this is like a therapy session right now that you are. You're on my show and you're helping me.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I do.

[Sage Steele]

And we are. We are figuring it out. Yes, I'd love to. Here's the context of the question I'm about to ask. When I was married, my husband was a stay at home. Excuse me, I'm remarried. Let me.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes, Married. The first time.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, I know. Which is a whole other struggle.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

Just got married to Dave a month ago. We made it. Yeah, four and a half weeks. Right. He's the love of my life and I'm so grateful for the second chance at that. I'm also very grateful for every part of my entire journey, including my first marriage, which produced three awesome kids. And my first husband was very supportive of what I was doing and began. He was a stay at home dad from the moment my first was born, which was 2002. She's 23. I could never have made it to the point I did in my career at ESPN without that sacrifice because I would have quit too. My babies were everything. And I would have put this dream to be a sportscaster aside if not for his sacrifice. And one thing I don't think is discussed enough is how difficult the role reversal can be. This is different because Timothy is not a stay at home dad, but he does have a wife who is the money maker right now and front facing in every way. Right. It was tough, I'll admit to you and I haven't talked publicly about it and I will more at some point in my life, I think. But it was tough because I'm so traditional. And it is a bit of a role reversal, certainly with him being a stay at home dad and me being the working mom. Is there some semblance of that with your relationship with Tiffany? Timothy who I'm looking at right now? You don't look like the Tiffany in my life. You're Timothy because he is working with you, not for you, with you and supporting you. Is there any semblance of that with him in a supporting managerial role? With what you're doing, I think.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

The only difference and maybe that people would see is that I'm public facing and he's more behind the scenes. But I really don't. To me it's not at all a role reversal because he is leading the projects that we do. It's not like, like I think I would feel that way if I were like, hey, we gotta do this. Are you doing this? I need to get this done. But it's not that at all. Like that's so not the dynamic. He's the one that's like, hey, like we have this going on and you need to make sure that you're doing this. And hey, I have to go like fly to this city to talk to this person that's in control of this project that we're working on. And so yeah, it's really More his leadership. And that is what allows me to feel so safe and so secure and so confident in saying the things that I do. Because I don't feel like I'm the one out there, like, bearing the sword by myself, like, taking the hits. I feel like I have the freedom to be creative and true and authentic out there, because I feel so protected and so led by everything that he has in place for us that I know that I have someone that. Who loves me more than anything, who is also seeking my best interest. And I'm not saying that people who have business managers that aren't related to them, don't have a good relationship with them or should mistrust them, but obviously, when you have a business manager and kind of like a boss who also would lay his life down for you, I mean, that's just a whole other level of safety and trust that I have. I would not. From the very beginning, even before he was my, like, business manager and business partner, like, he is. He is who made me feel that I had the ability and the safety to go forward to say controversial things. Because he just always. From the. From the time we were dating, before I even ever talked about being a public speaker or anything, because I didn't know what that would look like. He just instilled in me, like, this confidence that you've got something to say. And he's just always said, I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure, as long as you want to, that you can do it. Now. At the same time, he would say, any day you want to quit, any day you want to stop doing this, do it. Like, I've always had total freedom, too. I've never had pressure that, okay, well, this is what we're relying on. This is what we got to do. Like, he's very skilled in a lot of areas. If he wanted to go back into finance or anything, like, I would totally support that and we would figure it out. But that also gives me the freedom. I don't feel like, oh, I gotta go in every day. Because this is what we're relying on. It's like, no, this is what God has called me to do right now. And we're working together to fulfill that as best we can.

[Sage Steele]

How has it changed, Affected, Helped your marriage evolve? What. What effect would you say it's had?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, we spend a ton of time together. People always ask us, like, what do you do for date nights? And things like that? And I'm like, well, we do go on dates. Like, we enjoy that. But we're also together. Together every day. All day, every day. Which we were just talking on the way in, like, how much we just enjoy that. And of course, when you spend a lot of time together, there are times that you're like, okay, that's like, that's annoying me. Or, like, on both sides, or, like, I'm trying to do something. And it's easy to get short with each other when you're working with each other and when you're spending all the time together. That is, like, very normal. But you do have to remember that even when you're working together, you're still called to the same, like, parameters and, like, regulation set and script scripture for a marriage that, you know, we're to respect our husbands. Husbands are to love their wives, and that should be represented in every thing we think, say, and do. But, gosh, we've just also realized how much we can accomplish together. Like, we have this, which by the time this comes out, this will probably already happen. But we have this big women's event that this year is our second. And that just would not have happened had we not been working together. Cause he's totally taken the lead on all of that. That would have just been an idea that stayed in my mind for years and years to come, probably until my, you know, kids were out of the house. And so that's been. That's been really fun.

[Sage Steele]

Wow.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You said a word that hits me hard. Safe.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And he makes you feel safe.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. Which is especially important right now because there's a lot to make people in the public eye, especially conservatives, not feel safe. And I don't even like to think that I have to worry about safety, but I do. But having someone who's worrying about that on your behalf, and I just, like, do what he tells me. That is, like, that gives another level of confidence that I wouldn't have otherwise.

[Sage Steele]

And in the figurative way as well. Right? Yeah. You said that you have always felt safe to say whatever you want to say.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And he's going to have my back. He's like, I'll send off, like, a. I mean, he'll tell me if I'm, like, over the line. Like, we'll talk about things. I don't know if y' all do this, too. Like, should I say this? Or, like, is this the right thing to say? And he'll tell me. But more often than not, he's like, yeah, say it. He's like, liking the post. And he's like, oh, yeah, I love when you get fired up about that and all that. He loves it. And I love that too, that I never feel like I have to like hold back or be different to make him feel better or to, you know, he's just never been someone to like minimize me in any way. And that's really important.

[Sage Steele]

Huge. But someone that you can bounce things off of too. I'll do that with Dave. I'm like, okay, did I. Am I too strong here? It's like, no, it's great.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I might want to soften this word here. And I'm like, thank you. We do need someone that we know has our best interests at heart with every single thing, you know. Remember last year when Harrison Butler, the Kansas City kicker, said what he said, said what he said. And that was so controversial. Yeah. This is another example of. I think I don't know him well, but Harrison, not that it matters his opinion on you or me or anyone else, but people took that so literally. Like, you should be barefoot in the kitchen, serving me food, literally. And doing my laundry and folding my underwear and then being at my beck and call. It's of course not what he meant. I think the conversation that came from that was beautiful. And then we see Erica Kirk. We see Erica Kirk say what she has said over the last couple of weeks and actually long before Charlie was gone. What do you think now of really the state of that conversation? I feel like it's evolving.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And how people like Harrison have had the courage to come out and say, no, this is actually what marriage should look like in the eyes of him and many, of course, and what God wants for us to serve each other.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You are exemplifying that you and Timothy are. Do you feel like we've made progress with how people are thinking about that right now?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I hope so. I mean, there's a couple things I'm thinking about. You know, Harrison Bucker, when he was like, you know, basically staying at home with your kids is also a high calling. That's what I heard him say. That's a high calling. And he just, you know, is tired of people denigrating that as just a stay at home mom or just a wife. He elevated that to the role of honor and virtue that that is. I didn't hear him say, as you just said, like, you know, you have to do this or you have to be barefoot in the kitchen and you can only ever cook my meals. But also I just want to say, like, so what if he did say, so what if someone did say that? No one is making you do that as a woman. So what if that were his opinion? That he thinks that that is, like, the role that all women should occupy. Who cares? People put too much weight on what, like, people that they don't know. Say he's not going to go to your house, take off your shoes, and force you into the kitchen to make him chicken pot pie. Yes, like, who cares? And he was asked to give his thought to the commencement address, and I thought that his thoughts were beautiful. And I don't really care what he thinks about any particular person's life, and no one else should either. But he was extolling the virtues of being a wife and being a mom. And that's important for us to realize that that is a beautiful, high calling, that there is something so unique just about the woman's body, that we can be a part of this incredible miracle to literally bear and sustain life. And the conversation around, you know, what is a woman? Men and women. We have to realize that not only are men and women not interchangeable, but moms and dads aren't interchangeable. And what we bring to the table is different, and that is okay. And I think feminism has really just propagandized women into thinking that acknowledging any real differences between men and women, not just physical, but also personality, what we bring to the table, is inherently, like, unequal, is inherently pushing women toward, I don't know, like an unequal perspective of their worth. And that's just not true. Different doesn't mean unequal when we're talking about men and women and the things that we bring to the table. So are we moving into a better direction? I hope so. When we're talking about Erica Kirk, I think we realize that being a wife and a mom doesn't always necessarily mean only being a wife or a mom. And I don't mean just as if it's a bad thing, but literally only singularly, because she's also, from what I can see, an entrepreneur. And yes, she was, you know, Charlie's helper and, you know, confidant in so many ways. But when we look at her history, like, she also had a clothing company. She was also doing what she could or is doing what she can to help people read the Bible, and I've talked about this with fellow female conservatives, is that there is this notion throughout history of like, a. A family economy that both the husband and wife are contributing to in their unique ways. This idea that being a wife and a mom means that you can't have an Etsy shop or you can't Be an artist or you can't also use your gifts in a way that might bring in financial provision for your family. I actually think that's a very recent idea and not necessarily a biblical idea or a historic idea. Now, should moms, when we are moms, prioritize the well being of our kids and being as present as possible with our kids? Yes, but I don't think that necessarily means silence and zero contribution to your family's like, cohesive purpose and economy.

[Sage Steele]

So beautifully said, as usual, by you. I feel like whenever I listen, I. You make me think in different ways and sometimes ways that, you know, it's a little uncomfortable and I'm so grateful for that. In your perspective. I have, you know, I have three kids. My oldest, Quinn, is 23.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

All of your kids are so beautiful and handsome.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you. Yes, they really are.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And of course, like, they're just amazing genes.

[Sage Steele]

No, thank you. They're just. I'm so proud of the human beings that they are. Like, that's what gets me emotional about them because through it all, and there's always a journey, no matter what. Even the kid who, you know, is never grounded or you never have to discipline, there's always, there's always something because they're human beings. And I'm so proud of who they are. Now in the conversations that we have. Yeah, 23, 21. And they talk about, you know, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, it's real.

[Sage Steele]

It's real. But the coolest thing is having the conversations that I can now with Quinn in particular, because she's the oldest and she just graduated from college in May and she, you know, has a job and is looking forward to her future and climbing and becoming successful and more independent. And she's like, mom, I want to get married and have kids now. And I love that about her too, you know, and she's like, is that okay? I know you paid a lot of money for my education. And so what a great combo. Right? That's why I have hope, because I know that that generation, I mean, this is the Internet social media generation. This is all they've really ever known, you know, where they've gotten such toxic ideologies thrown their way in every aspect. For her to want that makes me happy. And then I'm like, okay, what does that balance? First of all, you need a man, right? And I don't want you to rush to find him. You know, are you trying to go out and are you on a dating. Like, that's not the way. Are you praying about this? And the answer is yes. She has taught me a lot about faith. What would your message be to the wonderful young women like Quinn? And I know you talk to young women constantly.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Who have been told all these feminist messages like go, go, go, and we don't need men. When a lot of them, deep down they do, they want that. They just are almost afraid to come out and say it. I am so excited to introduce you to Good's Candies. Yes, I come with Treats. It's a small Indiana based chocolate company with recipes that go back nearly a century. So it's a very small batch. Producer of very decadent confections ranging from toffee to cream centers to their latest offering, peanut butter bombs. You know, Forrest Gump may have said this best, but I'm gonna try. Life is like a box of chocolates. And I have one here. But Good's Candies wants you to make sure you know what you're getting. Its cream centers each have a very unique design. I'm gonna open this in a second. So you're gonna always know what's waiting inside. All varieties are offered in milk and dark. I take all of them. So for our business listeners, Goods Candies offers customized chocolate bar gift boxes. And these aren't customized wrappers like you get at the bank, trust me. These are customized chocolate bars that can include your logo, a special message, whatever you'd like. They are the perfect client gift and Goods Candies can handle all the shipping for you. Before I give you their website info, I'm going to open this little box. Take a look at this. First of all, it feels like it's ten pounds. I meant it when I said decadent confections. And the smell is incredible. So the website www.goodscandies.com viewers can save 20% through the end of the year with the promo code Sage. Spell my name S A G E. So place your order online or reach out to goodscandiesoodscandies.com with questions again, www.goodscandies. enjoy. As I'm about to.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, since she already is in such a good place of wanting, that when so many young women her age don't either because they think they genuinely don't or they've been told that they shouldn't. Yet they like this extended adolescence that we put on kids, that even when they are well into their 20s and they're in adulthood, we tell them, oh, you're just a kid and you're too young for responsibility and commitment. That's crazy. So the Fact that she already sees that, that she's like, no, I kind of like, I want that commitment. I want that responsibility that feels right. That's amazing. So knowing that she's already there, that makes my job easier. But I will say, I will echo what you said, that you don't want to rush to find this person. When you start dating someone and you think, okay, this could be the right person, but there's something in the back of your mind that's like, I just don't know. We're just not clicking. I just can't picture us growing old together. There's something that is not quite right. Don't ignore that. You should never have to convince yourself that this is the right person. Obviously, they need to meet your really important priorities when it comes to faith and values and family and all of those things. But you also need to love them. You need to be attracted to them. You need to enjoy being around them. And I've just seen a lot of young women who really want marriage so badly. They've ended up settling or they want to settle because they're afraid that they'll end up single. And they're afraid that they will end up not getting married or getting married later than they want to. And so they'll just hold on so tight because they're afraid if they break up, maybe there's no one else better out there. And we just have to trust the Lord and we have to trust His Holy Spirit. That there. If there is a conviction that this is not right, it is better. Someone told me this in college, and I should have listened to it sooner. But it is better to be single and sad than married and trapped. So it is better for you to be sad. It's better for you to be brokenhearted. It's better for you to be single than to. To wedge yourself with someone that you know really isn't right. And so there is not an exact timeline that you have to follow. I think, obviously there are so many benefits to getting married younger and having kids younger. There's so many benefits to that. But don't fall into this lie, because I think this is a trap of the devil in believing that your life doesn't really start until you get married, or your life doesn't really start until you have kids, that your joy is somewhere in the future, that your purpose is somewhere in the future. Because then you spend all of this time just waiting and all of this time just thinking, I'm not really who I truly am, or I can't be happy Right now. I can't be fulfilled right now because I don't have that future thing. The fact of the matter is, you now, you don't know if you'll ever have that future thing. It's not guaranteed for anyone, even if you really want it and pray for it. We just don't know. And so know that you are a full person who can be completely fulfilled in Christ. You can have an important purpose and lots of joy in this stage of waiting, in this season of singleness. And I think that's how we make sure that we are, like, healthily wanting something like marriage and kids without making it this idol that we're wrapping our identity into. I think that's, like, that's a balance there that I think is really important for any young woman to remember. Mm.

[Sage Steele]

One of the things I've said to my kids many times is, please don't waste my pain. And they get it now.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

At these ages, again, I wouldn't change anything because this is the journey God had me on to get to today, to sit here with you. Like, every single thing had to happen the way that it did and with the pain. Please, like, think of these things better, differently, sooner. That's good. What would you tell your kiddos, you know, especially your daughters, right? Like, about what you hope that they could take from some mistakes that. That you've made, that you made when you were young, especially with. With this topic.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Don't date in high school. Like, just. I would say, rule of thumb. I know there might be some exceptions out there that are like, oh, you know, married your high school sweetheart and all that, but it's like, it probably wouldn't have killed you to start dating them when you' 19. It's fine. I know there are some exceptions, but in general, I would say don't date in high school. Don't date until you are ready to get married. Because dating and basically, like, sharing a part of your heart with people that are not committed to loving you forever is going to end up in unnecessary heartbreak. And, you know, all of us have scars, and all of us can learn from pain. And that's a beautiful thing about God, is that he makes beauty out of ashes. That's possible. But if you can avoid the scars, if you can avoid the pain and the heartbreak, do. And that's. That's one thing that I would say. And even in college, when you're starting to get close to the age where you might be ready to be thinking about marriage, if they, you know, if they even go to college. I don't know. Times are changing. Then I. I would say to invest in. In friendships first. Like, until, like, you're getting to that age where you're like, okay, if I meet the right person right now, I could commit and we could get married. Don't neglect your friendships.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

For a guy, I just. I just wouldn't. Because those friendships can last forever. Those friendships remind you that you're not alone. When you feel isolated, they can push you toward the Lord in a way that a boy that you have a crush on probably won't. If anything, he'll probably be somewhat of a distraction. And I could have done a better job of that in college, of just ensuring I was really investing in those friendships and realizing that, you know, the guys and the formals and all of that, like, that was fun, but it was really temporary. And in the end, like, I didn't have as many out of college. I did out of high school, but in college, as many of the lasting friendships as I should have, because I just wasted time on things and people that didn't matter and didn't last, you know, and like you said, it's all fine. Like, I, you know, met my husband after college, and that was. I knew right away. That was. Yes, immediately. I knew right away. And it's all fine. But of course, if I could go back and if it were my daughters in college, I would say, you know, that's probably not the best use of your time. Remember these good friends in your Bible study here? Like, these could potentially be your friends forever.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

So invest time in them.

[Sage Steele]

You know, I think so many young girls realize it late, maybe right after college. And then there's this period of shame.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And having to forgive themselves, ourselves for things we did do or didn't do in college, whatever. How do they handle that when they're trying to forgive the things they did, which were quite normal and many times, in many ways encouraged.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. How do you. How do they forgive themselves in order to.

[Sage Steele]

To move on? Because that's what it really feels like with some of the young women I talk to, you know, and even my daughters and myself.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, okay, I. What we do is we judge ourselves and the shame. And then it builds up.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And then we're almost unable to move on and. Yes, absolutely.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Prayer. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

First and foremost, I think there needs to be. To be more.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. I think honestly, releasing yourself from the responsibility of self forgiveness or like, self grace and all of that is actually important. I think it is much more powerful to say The God of the universe, this perfectly holy being, the only person who really has the power or the right to hold something against me, to call something I do wrong and sin and say, hey, hey, that's not good. That person has for or that being. God has forgiven me because of what Jesus did for me on the cross. Not because of anything I did, not because of any prayer I prayed. But gosh, just because he loves me and he has given me grace through Jesus. Like, don't look to yourself because all of us are going to feel different feelings about ourself. That's going to change based on what time of the month it is, based on what we ate for breakfast that morning, based on what someone else feels about us, based on our mood. So many different things. If we are relying on ourselves for forgiven and grace and love and to feel good, that is going to be so exhausting because we're just so messed up and we change so much. But when we look to the cross, which doesn't change, and when we look to Jesus, Hebrews 13:8 says, Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. And his love for us is not dependent upon what we do or what we have done or not done. When we look to him for our acceptance and forgiveness, the burden comes off of ourselves. Wow. The holy God loves me, cares for me, forgives every single sin I've ever done. Because he died for me and because he gave me that grace. Grace means a free gift. You can't earn it. That like, that's the gospel and that is like the relief that we feel. I honestly, I'm not trying to over spiritualize it, but I don't know any other place to tell someone to go to get the relief of shame that they're seeking. So that would be my answer.

[Sage Steele]

Have you had to deal with that in ways in your life?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, you know, I, I wrote about this in my first, in my first book, you're not enough. And that's okay because I see so much from the world that like if you're feeling shame over something that you did, like you just need to love yourself more and you just need to realize that you're enough, that everything is okay. And I'm like, that just seems so pithy and so superficial when someone is saying I'm ashamed over something I did, or I'm depressed or I'm anxious and their therapist says, well, you just need to look inside yourself. I'm like, I'm just, I just told you that the self is like my problem. I just told you that I'm looking inside myself and I'm finding all these messed up things. And the therapy world today basically says you need to look in the same place that you're finding your problem for the solution. And the self can't be both the problem and the solution.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

The self can't be both the problem and the solution. And when I was in college, like, I was really into a lot of, like, the self help, self love stuff, the, you know, you're enough mantras, you're perfect the way you are, like you're beautiful the way you are, all that stuff. And trying to make myself feel better. I, you know, went through a bad breakup when I was a senior in college. Ended up. I never drank until I was 21. But then after I was 21, went through this breakup, started drinking, started going out, like, started, you know, trying to get all this attention, affirmation from guys, and developed this eating disorder. Really? Because a lot of people say, like, it was. It's about control, which I think it is for some women. But honestly, for me, it started with vanity. It started with sadness, actually. You know, the breakup was sad. And when I'm sad, I just have a hard time eating. But then I liked how I looked and I got the attention that, like, losing weight brought me. And then maybe it was about control, but it was anorexia. It was later bulimia. And I told myself I could stop. Like, I told myself I could stop whenever I want to. I know I can. So I wouldn't let myself believe that it was like this addiction, that it was this disorder. And I was like, I'll stop when I graduate from college. Which was so silly. Looking back, I had a time frame, but I didn't. I'll stop when I start my new job. But I didn't. I'll stop when I move. But I didn't. I'll stop when I, you know, get a boyfriend or whatever. Didn't. And then I remember a friend, like, she caught me in this, like, binging and purging cycle. And I was just like, so embarrassed because I had been telling myself, like, you're not that person. Like, people with eating disorders are, like, weak. They are not in control, and you're not that. But, like, when I got caught, I realized that I was. And then you get into a cycle of lying, and it was just so shameful. It's so shameful because it's embarrassing because you're admitting, like, I cannot control this. This thing actually, like, has controlled me. I am Enslaved to this thing. And this was after I was a Christian, okay? This was not before I knew Jesus. I was a Christian. I knew better. I knew that what I was doing was wrong, and I couldn't stop. And maybe part of me didn't want to. I actually had to go to, like, a. I finally. I think it was probably right after I got caught, I, like, found a biblical counselor online that was, like, associated with the church that was close by. And I went to her and I told her my problems, and she was great, and she listened and all of that stuff without, like, telling me, oh, no, you're. You know, you're perfect. You're great. All this stuff. Actually, one day I showed up, and she had the stack of papers, and there were these research papers being like, you're gonna die. She was like, bulimia is gonna kill you, and if you keep going. I was 22. She was like, you're gonna die when you're 22 or 23, and your parents are gonna have to come here, and they're gonna have to, like, see that. And I was like, oh. That's when it hit me that. That it wasn't just, like, I knew. I knew because that's why I was there. But it wasn't just a game. Like, it wasn't just something that, oh, this is, like, a little stage I'm going through that it could actually kill me. And I was like, I don't want to die. Like, I don't want to die at 22 or 23. That sounds terrible. I want to get married. I want to have kids. And it just kind of shook it out of me. And honestly, I know that this is not everyone's story. I'm not saying it has to be everyone's story, but for me, I really did stop cold turkey.

[Sage Steele]

Did you really?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Never did it again. Never intentionally made myself throw up. Never intentionally, like, deprived myself from food. And that's not to say I didn't struggle with thoughts of, like, oh, I ate this. Now I can't eat for the rest of the day. That's, you know, that's a struggle that a lot of women have, Whether or not we talk about it. That's a struggle that a lot of women have. But never thank the Lord. Thank you, Lord. Never do that again. And with that, like, eventually the, like, alcohol and the going out and the seeking the attention from it, that just all kind of fell away because the secrecy and the shame that was keeping me locked in that cycle with the eating disorder, once that was broken thankfully, again, by the grace of God, the other chains just kind of like, fell away. And so, yeah, that was that part of that story. But, man, I can't say that, oh, overnight I never stopped being ashamed of it or, like, I, I, I can't say that overnight I stopped being ashamed of it, rather. And there are still times that I'll think I'm like, I can't believe that I did that. Like, I can't believe that I was that close to the edge and I.

[Sage Steele]

Was it that close?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, I don't think that I was, like, on my deathbed, but it was too. I think it could have. I guess by the edge, I don't necessarily mean death, but the edge of really not being able to stop, like, of sliding down so fast that it's like, no, this is just part of who I am and I'll never, ever stop. So thank you, Lord, for, like, your provision and your grace there. And, yeah, I still think about that. And there's shame when you know better, too. Like, there's a lot of grace, I think, when you're like, oh, yeah, you know, I was 15 or that was before I was a Christian. I didn't know any better. It's like, no, I knew better, and that was stupid. And it's okay. I think that's the thing, is that it's okay to say that, like, we don't need to put lipstick on our sin in order to make ourselves feel better. I don't need to look back at that time and give myself a bunch of excuses like, I don't need to look back and be like, oh, well, that really wasn't that bad, or, everyone was doing it, or, that's okay. Like, it's possible. That's actually power that the gospel gives us to look back at our sin and say, no, that was wrong. That was wrong. And you have to be able to say that, especially when you have kids, because you want to be able to tell your kids, like, no, that's wrong. That's not going to give you the happiness you're looking for. And I know, I know that from experience. So be able to call your sin sin, but then say, wow, God, thank you so much for redeeming me from that. And that's where the freedom comes from, not from how we feel about ourselves.

[Sage Steele]

How does it affect you today?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, I think even though I, like, if I could take it all back that season of my life, I would, I would, because, you know, cause pain and heartbreak and, you know, damage to my body and all of that. But God is in the business of redemption, and he uses terrible, terrible circumstances for our good and for his glory. And because I've been in those dark places, and now I'm a mom of three girls, like, I don't know everything, but I know a lot more than I did before that. And I just hope that that gives me the keen perception to see when something is going on beneath the surface. And I know those cycles of thinking and where they can lead you. And I hope it makes me a better mom. That's what I think about. So, yeah, that's. That's how I think about it most. And that I think it'll help me in motherhood.

[Sage Steele]

Had you met Timothy at the time?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

No, I was. It was. This was right before I met Timothy, actually.

[Sage Steele]

Right. And so you stopped.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. Yep. But it was, like, right before I met him. And now if it hadn't been Timothy and I hadn't known immediately that I wanted to marry him, I probably would have said, this is not the time for me to be getting into another relationship. I'm just trying to get everything together in my life. But then I met him, and all the people who had ever said like, oh, when you know, you know, which I never believed. And I was always annoyed by that, because I'm like, what does that even mean when you know, you know? But then I met him, and I was like, I get it. I get it. And I just knew.

[Sage Steele]

Ditto.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I was 51.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

With when you know, you know.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

For round two. So I'm saying I was like, oh, that is such. Like, that's ridiculous. That's made up.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

Something from social media. No, is true. And that's a story for another day. You know, you talked about the eating disorder. Do you consider that sin?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That's a really good question. I think that almost always. Yes now. Or you could at least say that it starts with sin. Now, are there some people who truly have something wrong with their mind that they cannot and maybe never had any control over? Someone who is more skilled and has more expertise in actual true psychology could probably answer that. But I think it's also, like, for a lot of women, I don't think that we can categorize it the same for every single person. I think for a lot of people, it's an addiction. And I. I don't think that we are completely out of control of our addiction. We might feel like we are, but we are making decisions, and we are responsible for the decisions that we make every time we make it. And so I do think, especially for me, when it started with vanity and, you know, it went into the control aspect and all of that, eventually you're enslaved to it. It's just like anything else. Is pornography a sin? Yeah, pornography is a sin. Is anything that we allow to enslave us besides Jesus, sin and an idol? I think, yes.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, so that's the part that I wasn't connecting until you said just that. Because I think you can look at pornography obviously committing any number of crimes. That is very clearly wrong. And a decision. Were you wrong to starve yourself, to be anorexic, bulimic? I feel like. And this is where we get into that. I feel like that's different. You're not hurting someone else. You're hurting yourself intentionally, unintentionally. I don't know. This is where I struggle sometimes to define sin, because I feel like there was an innocence behind that. You didn't mean to hurt yourself. You didn't hurt others directly, indirectly, I guess, through your actions, right?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's important to. Sin is not just something that affects someone else or hurts someone else. There are a whole number of sins. Like when Jesus comes, he says, you know, you've heard, thou shall not murder. You've heard, thou shall not steal. You've heard, you know, you've heard all of these commands that you're supposed to do that mostly focus on what you do outwardly. But he says, but I say to you, whoever hates someone in his heart has committed murder already. You have heard it said, do not commit adultery. But I say to you, whoever lusts after a woman who is not his wife has already committed adultery. So Jesus says that sin doesn't start with what you do on the outside. It starts with what you feel in here. It starts with the heart. Like, people think that Jesus came along and was like, ah, rules don't matter anymore. The law doesn't matter. There's nothing as sin. No, he doubles down to the point that everyone's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't know if I can meet that standard. I might not. I might be able to avoid murdering someone or, like, committing adultery and all of these things. But Jesus says, it's not just about what you do, it's about what you feel in your heart. Which is why he was so necessary, because none of us can reach that perfect standard.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That's why in the Old Testament, they had to, you know, they had to make the sacrifices of blood to cover up their sins. Well, Jesus became that sacrifice when he poured his own blood out on our behalf. We can't reach that standard of perfection. And so, yes, sin starts with the heart. Not just what we do, but also, I think about First Corinthians 6 that talks about the body and how important the body is. And we hear that the body is the dwelling place for the Holy Spirit, for the Christian. So we are supposed to honor God with our bodies. So that's with how we act sexually, but that's also with what we put in our bodies, how we steward our bodies. This is a house of the Holy Spirit of God. So how I treat my body really matters. Not just with anorexia, also with gluttony, like, also with laziness. And so there's a balance there. But it's all. When we see our bodies as owned by God and that it's just on loan to us, like, that we are just stewarding it. That gives us a better sense of, like, what does it mean to really honor the body that God gave me?

[Sage Steele]

I think I love that. Thank you. That does make it so much more clear, because I think sometimes it is, well, I didn't hurt anyone but myself, so why is this a thing? How does this affect you? Back off. And it is so much bigger than that. I know you grew up Southern Baptist, right?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yep.

[Sage Steele]

And now still today, Southern Baptist, Southern Baptist.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Help me understand Southern Baptist, Reformed Christian.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Okay. That's a really good question because, like, I would say that I didn't necessarily even know the difference until I was maybe in college. So very normal for people to be like, hang on, are those two different denominations? You're Catholic, correct?

[Sage Steele]

I am with questions about that. So let's start here.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Okay. So, yes, a lot of my Catholic friends might not know the differences in denominations and all of that good stuff. So Southern Baptist is the biggest Protestant denomination. And so all kinds of Baptist churches are a part of this Southern Baptist Convention. That doesn't mean we all necessarily agree on everything, but there are some standards that Baptists would say are set in Scripture that all people who are affiliated or all churches who are affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention have to, like, fall in line with, you know, particular standards. And then Reformed is the description of the particular type of theology that I have and that a lot of Baptists have. But not all Baptists would call themselves Reformed. And there are probably things like this, too, within the Catholic Church. And maybe they don't have official names for the dark differences that some Catholics have in doctrine, but Reformed, it's you know, it focuses on. And I always am like, how, like, much into the details should I get when it comes to Reformed? But it basically refers to the Reformation, which happened in the 1500s when Martin Luther, who was a Catholic, he was like, I have 95 problems with what the Pope is doing right now. One of them was indulgences. For example, Catholic leadership at the time would go around to people and say, hey, if you pay us money, then we will sprung bring the souls of your. The people who died before you out of. Out of purgatory, and they'll go straight to heaven. And Martin Luther was like, hang on, this is not right, and this is not the Gospel. And his emphasis was on making sure that the average person could read the Bible and that they were literate, but also that the Bible was translated very, very carefully from the original Hebrew and Greek into German and into the languages that people could understand. So that's how he spent the majority of his life, was translating very carefully the Bible, not from. Not just into the Latin Vulgate, which is what the Catholic Church focused on at the time. All of Mass was in Latin. And people didn't know. So they didn't know what the Gospel was. They didn't know what the Bible said because they had to rely, of course, on the Catholic Church to tell them. So when the Catholic Church said, yeah, if you pay money, we'll spring a soul out of purgatory, they really had no tools at the time to say, well, that's not true, and I'm a poor person and I can't afford to do this. And that incensed Martin Luther. And so Martin Luther wasn't really trying to start like, this revolution against the Catholic Church. He was a Catholic. He actually believed in the authority of the Pope. He believed in what a lot of Catholic doctrine taught about things like Mary. But he was like, we need to reform what's going on here because this is not fair. And people don't know the Gospel and people don't know how to be saved, and I want them to be able to read the Bible. And so he really focused on making sure that people knew that you're not saved by the money that you give. You're not saved by the works you do. You are saved by grace through faith. And that's from Ephesians 2, that the salvation that you have is a gift from God, and it's the faith that gets you there. It's not your actions, it's not your money. And so when we say that we're reformed. We're really going back to the principles of the Reformation. People sometimes talk about the five SOLAs or the five ALones. And that really focuses on, like, the five things that the Gospel is focused on. By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for God's glory alone. What's the fifth sola? Does anyone remember? Okay, someone looks up the fifth sola for me. Everyone out there who is watching, it's like, I know it by. By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. For God's glory alone. The fifth one.

[Sage Steele]

We will get that.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I. I forget. But anyway, so that's really like, what reformed me. So there's a lot of Martin Luther, there's a lot of John Calvin. There's a lot of talk about things like predestination and all of that, which we probably don't need to get into. But it's a form of theology and a way of reading the Bible and looking at salvation that most Protestants in general agree on. But we might have some differences just based on your background and denomination. I said for God's glory alone. Oh, according to scripture alone. Okay, so by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to scripture alone, for God's glory alone. Okay, I'm sorry, all of my fellow reformed people out there, you're disappointed.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, now just watch the comments right now.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I know.

[Sage Steele]

You know, I have always been so appreciative of your depth of knowledge and your ability to explain it and really put it in layman's terms in many ways. And through my journey over the last several years, I have remained proudly Catholic and asked a lot more questions and been disappointed that there has never really been a strong encouragement from the Catholic Church to dig deep into your Bible. I can't quote many scriptures. It's not how we were raised. I love it for the tradition and how it makes me feel. That takes me back to my childhood and some really wonderful times growing up with my parents and I was an altar server. The traditions that my kids enjoy. I like that I can go anywhere in the world and walk in and the incense smells the same and the hymns and you know what to do, when to nail all those things that are just almost comfort. And certainly there's some hypocrisies and major issues within the church that I think have been pretty well documented. But I'm embarrassed. Like, there is some shame in not understanding the Bible to the extent that I think I should. So it's okay. We talked about shame earlier in many ways, and I love that Now I have the curiosity, but darn it, what is that? Like, why? And maybe it's a rhetorical question, like, why is there not that emphasis on really understanding and digging deep in your Bible and being able to have a conversation.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. You know, you're not alone in that. And I have so many Catholic friends, and I admire them so much. And everything that you just said about, like, the comforts of the Catholic Church first, I don't think that those are superficial. Like, there is something very beautiful to the universality of a Mass that you can walk in and get the same homily, I believe, like, everywhere on the same Sunday. Like, the consistency and in some ways, unity. Although I do think that their Catholics actually do disagree more than they let on. And they'll say that Protestants are the only ones divided. I'm like, I don't think that's necessarily true.

[Sage Steele]

If I could tell you the conversations I had with my priest from Connecticut, who I moved away a year ago, we still communicate almost weekly. And the things that he would get.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Crushed.

[Sage Steele]

He would have. I would see parishioners get up in the middle of it and walk out of Mass because he's staunchly pro life, as he should be as a Catholic priest.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

And so the division is real and loud.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Yeah. But you are also, like, not alone.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

In being a Catholic that wasn't really raised with Bible memory. And a lot of Catholics may not know. And so, like, just to fill you in on how different the evangelical upbringing is, like, from preschool. From preschool, we are memorizing Scripture. Like, you know, I've got kids who went to preschool pre K3 and onward, and, you know, with a church and, like, from the very first week, they're memorizing Scriptures. So, like, on the way to school, every day, you're memorizing scripture. We had something called awana growing up, and that was every Wednesday night you'd go to church and you would get all kinds of, like, different things for the Bible memorization that you did. So Bible memorization and apologetics training in the evangelical world is there from preschool, from the time you are toddlers, you are learning to memorize Scripture. And I notice with my very brilliant, like, I have very brilliant Catholic friends that we can talk about all kinds of stuff, we can debate all kinds of stuff, but when it comes to the Bible, there is a difference. And I'm not trying to, like, no, I said it, you know, like, huge difference. I don't want it to come across as mean, but I'm like, okay, we can debate about a lot of stuff, but it's gonna take a lot to out Bible and evangelical because, like, we've had literally decades of just training, and that's just. It's not anything like I did, but I also went to a Christian school, kindergarten through, you know, through 12th grade, that, like, theology and Bible memorization was, like, the majority of what we did in every class. And so there's just. That is why I think it's actually very hard sometimes to talk about our differences and, like, debate with Catholics, because the Catholics will refer to Catholic teaching and will refer to the catechism, or we'll quote a pope. And the Protestants over here are like, I don't care. I don't care. I have this. Like, I don't. I don't. We don't believe in that, like, authority being on the same level as the Bible. And so we always want to go back to what the Bible says. But then when I'm talking to my Catholic friends about the Bible says, there's just a gap in knowledge. There just is. Like, I had a friend who was a devout Catholic my freshman year of college, and I remember seeing just, like, the reference John 3:16 somewhere, and I was like, oh, that's so cool. That's John 3:16. And not only did she not know, you know, what John 3:16 says, but she didn't know what a Bible reference was. She didn't know what it looked like to have, like, the name of the Bible, then the number, then a colon, then another number. And that was when I realized, wow, there's such a difference in what Catholic children are taught and what evangelical children are taught. And that's tough. That makes the debates, I think, tough.

[Sage Steele]

Well, you know, I can only go so deep on debates because of that.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I know my. And my personal why, but you're gonna beat me every time with scripture. It was never encouraged. It was not part of it. The conversations are beautiful that I continue to have with my priest. I'm grateful for it, but that's why I've gone outside, and that's why I'm trying to learn more and starting in small ways. Shortly after I met my husband, he asked, what are the most important things in a relationship for me? And he's like, you don't have to get back to me now. Let me know. But I really want to know. I was like, oh, no. I know. Have a seat.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I'm ready.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, here's the long list. But the first thing I said is that I need someone who's going to walk this faith journey with me because I am really just beginning in a new way here, Especially after, you know, having to forgive myself over a marriage ending and, you know, many other things in life. And I said, I need someone to do that with me, and I want that. And the coolest thing is that I didn't really think. I did have a split second thought, like, okay, if he's not on the same page with this, well, this isn't gonna work. And I have to take that chance. But obviously, the importance of that was just raw and deep to me that I was like, I'm saying it. And I was obviously so pleased at his answer, because he almost sighed in relief and said, me, too. And back in the day, I would never. You know, a couple years ago, I didn't date much in between. You know, I was divorced for five years before I met Dave, and I very little. And so I didn't get the opportunity to say that to someone because there was no one worthy, frankly. Not in a mean way. It just wasn't. What a blessing for him to say, Heck, yeah. So now I'm excited. Despite trying to get over this part of, gosh, why wasn't I taught that? And some real disappointment. But I get to do this now at 52, you know, with this beautiful man. And so every day, we start with daily scriptures and readings and discuss the breakdown of it and how we can apply it and how we should have applied it better with a kid here or there, whatever.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I love that.

[Sage Steele]

So it's never too late. Yeah, I think that's something I would want to say.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Like, there's no such thing as late with God. No, he's never late.

[Sage Steele]

No. And it takes what it takes. And even though we talked about our journey in college and things that we wish we could change that were super painful, but every single thing along the way had to happen for me to get to the point where I had the confidence to say to this man that I was pretty sure was the one that night, like, okay, but if you don't have this, like, all the other things are important, you know, all the things that you listed in a partner. But I can firmly say now, obviously, that if I don't have someone who's gonna walk that faith journey with me, I'm out. Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Good for you.

[Sage Steele]

What a blessing to do. Yeah. It was scary in that moment.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Cause you just didn't know how he.

[Sage Steele]

And I really liked him in every other way, you know, Ugh, that's so precious.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

So it does. It gets me choked up because I feel like I missed out on. On learning that, well, like you said.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

It'S never too late. And God knew and still knows exactly what he is doing with your life. And I think about so many of the converts, like in the Bible, and obviously a lot of them were already adults when Jesus came along. And there were a lot of things that before that they didn't understand.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Like I think about the fact that Saul. And this is not a direct comparison to you or me or anyone, but just. Just like how God works. In Acts 7, Stephen is martyred. He tells the gospel to this group of people. They get really angry and they throw rocks at him, and then he dies and he goes to heaven. I've thought about that passage a lot after Charlie was murdered, but it said that this man named Saul approved of his murder. And Saul was a Jewish leader at the time. He calls himself later the Hebrew of Hebrews. He was like this super righteous, pious guy, and he approved of the murder of Christians. And then just a little later, he meets Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, on the road to Damascus. He becomes blind. He becomes a convert to Christianity, the very people that he was murdering before, and then becomes the greatest missionary that ever lived. And so all of those horrific sins that he committed, like God used all of that saved him, and then put him on the exact path that he needed to go on at the exact time that he needed to go on it. And so if God can do that to someone who is approving of a murder, like, he can do anything for anyone at any point in their lives. And, like, who knows? We don't know why you have the timeline of your faith journey that you do. We're not going to see that until we see the fullness of the tapestry of all of our interwoven testimonies on the other side of glory in heaven. And so really the only thing that you can do is the next thing.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And not think, oh, gosh, you know, I should have done this, should have done that. Like, Satan would love to keep you in the past, but the past doesn't actually exist anymore. It's gone. So there's nothing we can do about it.

[Sage Steele]

Yep. A big coming out party for me was Charlie's Turning Point Faith Summit in West Palm in 2024. And I had never been asked to speak on my faith. And I was like, no, no, not doing it. And then I finally met you in person there, and obviously I did it. And it Was so scary because we're quiet as Catholics about it. And that was a huge turning point at the Turning Point Faith Summit, to get out there and say. And to feel welcomed and people, like, happy to hear my faith journey, even though it was. I don't know that I'd been more nervous.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

See, I didn't know that. I had no idea that that was your first. I could not tell.

[Sage Steele]

Good. Become a good actress with this TV journey of mine as well. No, but that was. I said a prayer the only other time, actually, right before then, I was asked to give the invocation at a NASCAR race. So 100,000 people right there at the race and live on FOX television. And I'm like, oh, we don't pray out loud. That's not what Catholics do. I mean, at Mass, but otherwise we're not. Oh, no. I have to say yes. And the moment I was being announced on the stage to come out and say my prayer, which had to be 34 seconds because it's timed with the flyover by the B2 bomber and live on Fox. And I'm like, but I don't pray out loud. And I can't time it, and I can't. The moment they're introducing me, my mind went blank and everything I had planned was gone.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That's happened to me.

[Sage Steele]

Right? And you're like, even in. If it's something you're usually more comfortable with. I wanted to run away and hide for the rest of my life. And I had to take that moment as they're saying, and now, welcome. And I just closed my eyes and prayed and said, jesus, I trust in you. And I walked out there. And somehow, some way, and we know how. Every word that came out of my mouth was exactly what I had planned for and dreamt of. And it was 34 seconds. And when I got off that stage and I. Sobbing, crying, and the people, the drivers, the crew chiefs who came up to me, and it was also a turning point. And it was all in these moments where you're uncomfortable. And that's what I think we need to remind people of. Like, I'm uncomfortable out there. Certainly talking about Catholicism, a religion of faith that meant so much to me growing up, but now there's some disappointment there. We gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable. I think that's part of it. Where we all feel this need to stay safe.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. So true.

[Sage Steele]

We can't. Yeah. Where are you? You're most uncomfortable right now.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

You know what? It's such a good point that you're making that just because you're nervous or uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not right.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And sometimes we mistake like, discomfort for conviction that, like, we shouldn't do something when maybe you're supposed to push through the discomfort and the nervousness. I really don't get very nervous like public speaking anymore because I do it so much. I talk to a lot of pregnancy center galas, like, as they're, you know, trying to raise money, I go to a lot of those and try to just like encourage and encourage people to be generous and all of that. And so I do that so much. But when I do something a little bit out of the norm. The other day I spoke in Nashville, that's something called the Think Summit. And they give all of their speakers first. You're in front of a bunch of pastors and like business leaders and stuff. It's not just your standard audience. And they give you this, this big subject that they know that you like to talk about, but they only give you nine minutes and they have a clock not only in front of you, but in front of the audience.

[Sage Steele]

That's a shorter TED talk.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Oh, it is.

[Sage Steele]

Mine is different than 10 minutes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. And everyone is watching the clock and you're not supposed to go over. As soon as you go over, the numbers turn red and people like start walking out. It's very intense. Okay, wow. So I have to talk about Toxic empathy, which I wrote a book about, which I could talk about for three hours, all of the subjects in there, and I had to distill it to nine minutes, which means meant for me that I wanted it memorized because I didn't want to be reading. I didn't want to be looking down on my iPad, which sometimes you can do in a 30 minute talk and you don't want to do it in a short talk. And so I was so nervous. Like, I have not gotten nervous in a long time. My heart was beating so fast, really, I was sweating. I felt like my voice was shaking. But again, one of those moments that I was like, okay, Lord, like, we've prepared, we've prayed. Just give me the words to say what I need to say. Thankfully, I did it in 8 minutes and 30 seconds. And so, yeah, there. But there, you know, there are times, there are times like that and you know, I. Everything. I want to remind people too that everything takes practice, including bravery. Like, bravery takes practice. Like, I remember the first time that I. People were asking me, I got asked to. Actually, I got asked to speak by Family Research Council about like the definition of marriage?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And, like, I know the definition of marriage. Strong on the definition of marriage, but at that point, it's like 2017 or 18. I hadn't really talked about that publicly, and I was scared to because it is controversial, it is sensitive, it is personal. But of course, even then, I feel like. Like everyone really felt that way. It was just something that Republicans didn't touch anymore. And I, like, had a scheduling conflict, and I ended up saying no. But I also wanted to say no. I was too scared. But then I kept on getting more questions. How do I think about Pride Month? My pastor said this. And so when I finally just sat it, this is what the Bible says, and I can't disagree with God. It was like, oh, I just needed to say it. And once I realized that this was my revelation, like, ally, you're not nicer than God, and you're not gonna be. You're gonna. Not gonna out love and out compassion God by disagreeing with him. So if God says it, then you say it. That's the most loving thing you can do. And that takes practice.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

But once you say it and once you do the thing, then you're like, okay, I did it and I can do it. And it gives you courage for the next time. You have to take that leap every.

[Sage Steele]

Single time, no matter what it is. Trying out for the volleyball team in high school.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And you know that you're not the best one. And I remember in eighth grade, I walked out because I was afraid of failure, and I just. I didn't even try.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I'd share that story with my kids. And it's like, you've got to try. What did Wayne Gretzky say? And many other athletes. You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take. Like, it's so big, basically. It's so true. But that's what I've told people. Every single time you feel uncomfortable. Probably means that you should go.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

One thing I always share, no matter where I speak, because it changed my life as part of the cadet prayer at West Point, where my dad went to college. Make me choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong. And never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be one.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That's good. I need to write that down.

[Sage Steele]

Look, did I just give something to Ally for once?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. There's lots of things to give me.

[Sage Steele]

100% Allie, that. That has changed my life.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

The harder right than the easier wrong don't hurt when the whole truth can be harder right. Easy.

[Sage Steele]

Wrong. And if you think about what that is so good, apply it in every aspect of your life. It is so simple. I always use the grocery cart analogy because it's so. And I have reached a grocery bags. And I lived in the Northeast and it's raining or snowing and I have an appointment to get to, and these three babies are crying and I shoved all the groceries in the car and I gotta go. And that cart, what I'd prefer to do is shove it up on the curb and drive away because I am busy and I have a life and I have three kids. I have all the excuses in the world to shove it up on that curb. How about the poor soul who has the job of schlepping all the carts that we are too lazy to put away? There's a slop form right over there. You might get rained on a little bit more. Or maybe you can bring it up to the. To the front doors of the grocery store. Our kids watch that too. Right. Or standing true for what you believe in. Are you gonna live in fear of saying what you believe because of what A, B, and C, that probably will happen the harder. Right. And so I. You apply it in every single aspect of life. But that's what you did by saying, wait a minute, I'm just telling God's truth. Even if it might be uncomfortable for many to hear and even if people are going to attack me. So was that the real turning point for you when you're like, I'm going to speak up and say. And answer these questions truthfully? Because it's not based necessarily on your opinion. It is based on what you have read in the Bible.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. And I think I realized then that clarity is a gift. And so many people are hungry for that right now. And a lot of people aren't getting it from their pastors, unfortunately, or maybe their priests or, you know, the media, certainly, or their family or whatever. Whatever their sphere of influence is. And they just want to know what is true.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

That's what everyone wants to know, what is true. And Satan exploits, like, gaps in knowledge and gaps in understanding. When it seems like everything is confusing and chaotic, then we'll believe anything and. And while we will never know everything that's going on, like, we can't always trust the government, we can't always trust the media. What I do know is that the truest thing that is always going on is God's eternal plan of redemption. And what is happening can be found in his word. Because, I mean, there are so many Descriptions of, like, what goes on in the evil ages and the evil generations that we live in in scripture, that I don't really have to wonder what is going on beneath it all. There's spiritual warfare that's happening, winning. And I don't have all the answers. I'll never have all the answers. And I'm okay with that. But I do know that we have a real enemy who has real power, and there's a real God who is going to win one day. And I'm a small part of that. And all I can do. I always say this on my show, do the next right thing in faith, with excellence, and for the glory of God. And that could be changing a diaper. That could be sending an email. That doesn't always mean like a bold, big declaration out in public, maybe, but it's just doing the next right thing, which I didn't come up with that phrase. Of course, a lot of people have said that, but it really is just doing the next right thing for the glory of God. That's all you can ever do. And God uses all of those seemingly mundane moments in really big ways. And we just get to play a part.

[Sage Steele]

You have said big, bold things and unabashedly. Although I do wonder that human element where afterwards you go, okay, did I have to go there? How do you? Should I have gone? Did I? And then you see the comments and all the things. But obviously people are watching and listening and I wrote down a couple because there's so many Ally. But these are things that I love that you've said. And I just wonder, you know, if you've ever thought twice about them, if you've wanted to.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Why can't you wait to hear these?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. No, I love them all and I agree with most of them. It's easy to be a progressive.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

She's like, duh.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Oh, yeah. It's so. It's so easy to be a progressive if you're a conservative. You have to have security all the time because you might get shot in the neck. I don't, I don't think any progressive has to worry about that because it's just, it's. This is not a both sides issue. It's a one side issue right now. And the cultural zeitgeist agrees with you. You're going to see your worldview echoed back at you when you watch Netflix, when you read books, when you follow almost any mainstream media outlet. I mean, the world affirms what you believe, which is why it is so difficult to get progressives to debate because they are just not used to, as, you know, conservatives are, or even just like people who are a little bit, you know, like right of sinner, left of sinner, and what they believe. Like, we are constant, constantly. We're constantly in confrontation with opposite worldviews and they very rarely are. So, yeah, of course, it's so easy to be a progressive.

[Sage Steele]

Love it. The last thing a woman wants is to be excluded.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, I think that's true. And I think that's why a lot of women are progressive, because it's the easier thing to be. And it's the way that you signal that you're a good, compassionate person, that you're not like those conservative MAGA rubes over there. It's how you make sure that the people in your neighborhood like you and include you in a lot of cases. Obviously, that might not be true in deep red rural areas, but in most suburbs in America, you're either really quiet and no one knows what you believe, or you're progressive and people just accept that and they're too scared to argue with you. So, yeah, I would say that drives a lot of why women do what we do.

[Sage Steele]

I do feel like we are turning, unfortunately. I think, and I will end on Charlie Kirk in a moment, but I think there are women who are like, okay, I've been too quiet.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, totally.

[Sage Steele]

And this is what we need. But it is true. And as much as we have been taught, I am woman, hear me roar. It's fine. You don't have to like me.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I don't know how many you've been liked. Yeah, yeah. And it's okay. It's okay. To show that softer side, we don't want to be excluded, but sometimes if we are true to ourselves, we will be excluded. And I think we both have. Have experienced that. Yeah, I am for the death penalty for the same reason why I'm against abortion. I value innocent life.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yep. This is another one of those things where I'm not nicer than God. And in Genesis 9, 6, God says that the right punishment for murder is the death penalty. And he roots it in a reason that is still true today. We have to look for, like God stated reasons for why he's commanding something. Because some things were cultural, some things were specific to a certain people group at a certain time. But this is before Israel, this is before civilization. This is not just to Israel. This is the Noahic covenant before Israel exists. And he says the reason why he gives for the death penalty for a murder is because man was made in God's image. So I asked myself, is that still true today? That we are made in God's image? That we are so valuable we're different than plants and animals because we're made in God's image? Yes, that's still true today. So God's reasoning for the death penalty is not because he's cruel, but because he cares about us so much, because we are so special, we are so important that murdering us is a heinous, egregious crime. And the only possible punishment that is commensurate with that kind of evil is death. It's actually a great mercy because we're saying that someone who, I don't even like to say it, but say that they horrifically assaulted and tortured a child and then murdered that child. We are not saying that they are getting the same punishment they inflicted on that child. We're actually giving them a much more merciful option. We're saying you get a quick and painless death after getting three square meals for 30 years. I actually think it's unjust that we don't give the death penalty more quickly and more consistently for heinous crimes like that. But the death penalty is actually mercy for the person who raped and murdered that child. It's not cruel. So, yeah, again, the unjust part of the death penalty in the United States is that we give it to arbitrarily.

[Sage Steele]

I love it. And when I saw you say this, I believe it was after the Pope.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I don't want to get this wrong. He basically said, if you're against abortion, you have to be against the death penalty. Life is life is life. Right. Is that the paraphrasing way to say.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, And I would just say, okay, well then you think that you're nicer than God if you think that the death penalty, like you could argue, okay, I don't believe in the death penalty in the United States today because I don't like our justice system works. I'm afraid that we're going to get it wrong. Okay, like, I'm more willing to have that debate. But if you're saying that the death penalty is wrong in general, if you're saying that the death penalty is not pro life in general, then you're saying that God is not pro life. You're saying that God is cruel and killing an innocent baby inside the womb. We're talking legally innocent. An innocent baby inside the womb is not the same as executing someone who committed a heinous murder and has been proven by due Process in a court of law. Law to be guilty beyond, you know, a reasonable doubt. Those two things are not the same. Not the same in the eyes of God. And a lot of people also get confused. Oh, the Bible says thou shalt not kill. No, God says thou shalt not murder. And not all killing is murder. Self defense killing is not murder. A just war. Killing is not murder. Killing an innocent person is murder. That's how God defines it. Yes. Manslaughter is not murder. Police. There are differences and God gives those differences. And yeah, the Pope is wrong. Great thing about being a Protestant is that we are still protesting against what a lot of what the Pope says. Not always, but in cases like that. Yes.

[Sage Steele]

I so appreciate you simplifying it that way and I will credit you whenever I use it. Okay.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Okay, sure.

[Sage Steele]

That's fine. Your daughter should not be listening to Taylor Swift. She is not a role model.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, I think that's true. Now I listened to Taylor Swift when I, you know, got my Volvo when I was 16 and in 10th grade. But that's because she was crying teardrops on her guitar and she was talking about Drew looking at her. And then when I graduated from college and I gave my commencement address, I quoted happy, free, confused and lonely at the same time because I was 22 and you know, she was 22 or 24 at that point. And so her life stage was going along with our life stages and she was talking about, you know, superficial, sweet, innocent stuff that we were all going through. But now she's singing about opening her thighs to a man that is not her husband. And I don't see how that's appropriate for a 16 year old to listen to unless you're hoping that she's doing the same thing then. But if you are stirring up a desire that you cannot fulfill in a holy way, not just from what you're listening to, but also from what you're watching, from what you're reading, then for the Christian mother, we shouldn't be encouraging our daughter to be thinking that way. That's just putting thoughts in her head to do things that she can't do in a way that is good for her body or good for her heart or good biblically. I'm happy for Taylor Swift. Like, I'm so happy that she's getting married, like, and she's excited about that. I love that for her. I hope that she has an amazing, healthy marriage and has lots of kids and like, just has an awesome life. I love that for her. But she's talking about things that are sexually explicit. And I don't see how we should be encouraging our daughters to be entertained by the things that Christ died for.

[Sage Steele]

Is it okay for us to be disappointed? I mean, of course it's okay, right? Disappointed in someone like Taylor Swift where like, wait, this is who you were? And I guess we all have ways of evolving. We all make choices. But it is tough when for years we did say we greenlighted Taylor Swift as parents.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And all of a sudden you're like, yeah, no more.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Right? Yeah. I mean, I think it's okay to be disappointed. And maybe I, I was probably too late in realizing this because I look back at some of her albums and a lot of them are about vengeance. Like a lot of them about, are about revenge and unhealthy relationships. And maybe that should have been my red flag 10 years ago, I'm not sure. But certainly now it's just, at the very, very least too mature. It's just too immature for your 16 year old daughter.

[Sage Steele]

And I think sometimes parents don't look deeply into lyrics.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, but my parents did. You know CDs, when you would have, at the front of your CD you would have those pamphlets and you could take it out and you would read. Okay, well I remember I was in like second grade and I got the In Sync. Maybe it was In Sync or Backstreet, I don't remember. And my mom sat there on the floor of my room room reading all the lyrics. And I remember like one of the songs said damn and she like pointed at it and she showed it to me. She was like, Ali Beth. And I was like, I was like shocked because of course I'm like 8 years old, but I knew that it was a bad word. I was like, okay, okay, just take it, take, take the cd. And I'm very grateful. Now, I probably hated it then, but I'm grateful that my parents, they did pay attention to that kind of thing. But. But yeah, now, like, I don't know.

[Sage Steele]

It's so hard.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, it's so hard and there's so much. And it's so hard to control because if your kids have Spotify or whatever, like CDs are just a lot easier to give and take away.

[Sage Steele]

They are. Everything was easier back then. And I do think there's a fine line because we can protect our kids to a certain point. And then if they decide to go off to college, if we have completely hidden everything from them, they're in trouble. And at least I want to be able to be present and have the conversations when this stuff is coming up while they're still under my roof. And especially because if they have a phone, which now all kids at some point will based on, oh, wait, you have basketball practice and I don't know what time I'm able to pick you up. And there's no longer phones in the lobby like there used to be, or a payphone in the lobby in my day where you can say, hey, Mom, I'm running late. Whatever it is. Like now, there's limitations you could put on it. But in order to have some control of what they're processing, they do have to be exposed a little bit earlier. But it's figuring out what's best for you and your family. Because if. What do you mean? Give them a cell phone when they're 18 going off to college?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, I think that there has to be, like, parameters. And obviously I don't have teenagers yet, so I'm learning from people who have been through.

[Sage Steele]

Who knows what's gonna be out there when your kids are teenagers.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I know. Know. Well, I do think that parents give their kids phones too early.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

I think that, like, your preteen doesn't need a phone. And like, I got a phone. Of course there's a flip phone when I was 13, but that was probably even too early because I was texting in my room. I shouldn't have even been texting. Texting was the distraction back then. I can't. I didn't even know how to get on the Internet. If you accidentally click the Internet button on your phone, you were like, ah, that's the last thing I wanted. I don't want to get on the Internet on my phone. I don't even know what that means.

[Sage Steele]

Means.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And so. But I do think that there are still parameters that you, like, you are your child's parent. Yes, you do get to say yes or no. And you do get to take the phone away. And you do get to look at the phone. Like, you do get to look at the messages. And I've heard, like, kids are so smart, they can try to, like, work around that and hide things from their parents. And, you know, that's also, like, where the relationship and the boundaries and all of that preparation comes in. But like, like, I know that parents will say, sorry, you're not going to have a. And this is what Jonathan Height also says, that kids should never have a screen in their room of any kind. A tablet, a tv, which I did have a TV in my room or a cell phone. And so Even if they have a phone, it's, like, around you.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And then you take it away when they go to bed.

[Sage Steele]

It's very simple. It's called parenting.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And many people, you know a lot.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

More about that than me, but it seems like there are rules that you can put in place that are common sense. Sense.

[Sage Steele]

And then you have to follow through.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

God forbid you follow through with your rules. And to me, that's the biggest thing right now with parenting is fear. Well. And so many parents who want to be their kid's friend way too soon. My oldest is 23. We're really good friends right now. I love that. It's been a process, man. It's been a journey. And I still have to parent at times and hold her accountable for things. But I don't know, like, even in the last few years, since mine have left under my roof, my youngest is a sophomore in college, even then, it's changed. And they will tell you. Quinn will tell you in particular. She's like, oh, I'm gonna be 10 times stricter than you, because there's things you don't know about Mom. And I had my finger on the pills. Like, I was on top of them. And still. So the prayers are going up for you and everybody else with babies, because we don't know what the world is going to have out there for us at that point. I don't have a quote on specifically on gay marriage and your thoughts on that, but you've been very clear. Marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm sure you have gay friends. How do you handle that? I have a very dear friend, several gay friends, many of whom, you know, who are married wherever they live. It's legal, they're married, and I love them dearly. How do you handle that balance? When you, you know and love people who live very differently from what the.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Bible says, and I agree with them on a lot. It's like, it's not just like, oh, yeah, that's my, like, token progressive friend, but like, no, like, we agree on so much in so many cases, but this very important, hugely important part of their lives and part of their heart and part of their family, you know, I don't agree with. And it's not that I devalue them as people or don't love them or don't want them to be happy. But again, it goes back to, okay, if God is Love, that's what first John 4:8 tells us, then that means that everything he says and does, he says and does. In love. And so the most loving thing I can always do is agree with God. And if God says, which he does from the very beginning, all the way through the New Testament, it's not just like this Old Testament Leviticus thing from the very beginning that marriage is only between one man and one woman for life. And that, that's not only an earthly reality for the purposes of pro production or reproduction rather, but it's also a heavenly reality. Ephesians 5 says that a marriage between one man and one woman is representative of Christ and the church. Jesus is described as the groom and his church is considered the bride. And so we are told in Ephesians 5 that earthly marriage reflects that between one man and one woman. That's not gender neutral, that's not interchangeable, that's not two grooms, that's not two brides. So that tells me that the earthly institution of marriage has an eternal significance to God all of time, according to the Bible, starts with a marriage and ends with a marriage. It starts with a marriage between Adam and Eve. It ends with the marriage between Christ and his church. So, wow, if that is, if it's that important to God, it has to be that important to me. And it can't be something I just compartmentalize and say, well, that's just really hard. And so I don't believe that. Obviously it's super fundamental to God and so I have to hold tightly to that. While, of course, like loving my friends and loving the people. I know, they're fun people. Yeah, I love being around them. But also it takes a, I think, a level of character and maturity from them to be my friends, friend and to love me. Because there's nothing that's a part of my life that they're like, oh, that's, you know, I don't, I don't accept that about you that I have to like, kind of work around. But they do. And so I appreciate that about them. And I understand that that's difficult and I understand the temptation to conflate love and total affirmation. But I think when we separate those things, it's actually a lot easier to be friends with people, people to say, I do love you, but I can't affirm that when you can have those friendships. I think they're really special. And I don't know that I know all of the perfect answers and how to walk that line. But yeah, I do think it's important. But we can't ever waver on the truth for the sake of our personal relationships. Jesus Certainly didn't. He was crucified. Stephen certainly didn't. He was stoned to death. John the Baptist, Baptist, he was beheaded not because he preached the gospel, but because he told the person in charge that their marriage wasn't legitimate. Herod was the leader in charge. He took his brother's wife while his brother was still alive. And John the Baptist said to Herod, that's not lawful. That's not good for you to do that. That's incestuous. That's against God's law. And Herod's wife didn't like that. And so Herod's wife convinced him to behead John the Baptist and give his head on a platter. And so John the Baptist for speaking the truth about marriage when he didn't have to, he was executed for that. So clearly we see that the example in the Bible is to speak up for what God says is true, even when it's really difficult.

[Sage Steele]

How do you toe that line between sharing what you know to be true in the Bible, which, of course your personal beliefs as well, because you do feel called to share these things. Things and potentially at times coming across as judgmental.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, it's funny because I could say I could do an episode and I could get 50 comments saying, wow, that was so gentle and kind. Thank you for being nuanced and for being clear, but being gracious. And then on the exact same episode, I could get 50 comments saying, that was so harsh. That was so mean. That was so judgmental. So I'm not saying that tone doesn't matter, because it does matter, and how we say things matter matters. But also, ultimately, it usually comes down to the content of what you're saying and whether or not someone agrees with it. And, you know, at the end of the day. So, like, I don't want to tell this specific story because I don't want to get into gossip, but there was someone that we both know who is gay and who has a husband, has kids and all of that. And I've shared, you know, what I think about marriage. And this person is always so gracious, so understanding, so good at talking to people he disagrees with. And I just appreciated so much that he gave me a plaque platform. But then I started speaking out about surrogacy and the. I think it's wrong morally, but ethically, even aside from the gay marriage thing, like, I just think there's so many problems with it. And I reposted, like, a Babylon B headline that was kind of taking a shot at surrogacy. And this person reached out to me and was like basically don't ever talk to me again and don't like, don't fake smile at me. And I'm like, like dang, I wasn't like I, I actually do like this person and like I wasn't being fake before but that was just the bridge too far for them. And maybe you know, I could go back and like, oh, should I have retweeted that? Should I reposted that? Like was that, you know, whatever. And that can be hard but at the end of the day like you can't control everyone's response or reaction to you and you have to, you can only control like what you do and insofar as you are trying to make peace while also like staying true and you're never going to do it perfectly. I don't it perfectly. You just have to understand that sometimes that could lead to the loss of relationships and that's hard.

[Sage Steele]

But now we know that going in. Yeah, we know that there's always that potential and you just hope that people come back to knowing you, us knowing our heart, our intent, the tone, etc and how you have treated them.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Them.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, like the relationship. But yeah, there's so many tough topics and it does take courage to speak up, which is exactly what you've done. How are you with the loss of Charlie?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

There are some days that I am like totally distraught. Like yesterday I was driving in the car and my husband called me and he was like, you sound like you're crying. I was like, I am. I'm just like, I don't even have anything when I'm in those moments. I don't even have anything to say. Accept. It's so freaking sad. Like there's so many other things I could say too. But that's really. I'm just sad. Like I'm just sad that it happened. I'm sad at how it happened. I'm sad that his presence isn't here. I'm sad that I'm never going to talk to him again. I'm sad that I'm going to go to America Fest and I'm not going to see him backstage and you know, see him and Erica praying together backstage where so many of us got to witness. Like it's just sad, bad and like of course angry and determined and like braver and bolder and like all of that, I feel all of that too. And I've talked to so many people. I've like it's been non stop in true Charlie fashion. He's given so many of his friends more work, like, even from heaven. Because I'll get a call from, like, this pro life organization. Hey, we were gonna have Charlie come speak. Can you come speak? You know, I helped guest host his show. He had a TBN show, which I didn't even know. And I guess I was in one day, and I'm like, it's taken, like, a hundred of us to try to fill in for all the different things that Charlie was doing. So part of me is also just, like, on go mode.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

But then sometimes, as I'm sure you felt too, like, it just hits me that, oh, right. The reason I'm in all these security meetings now, the reason why I have two extra speaking engagements this week is because. Because my friend was assassinated. And then it just stops you in your tracks, and you're like, I can't. I still can't believe it. Sometimes. I just can't believe it.

[Sage Steele]

It's probably something that we'll never, obviously, fully accept it happened. We know it's a fact. But the circumstances surrounding it, which we still have a lot to learn. I think what I have found is pleasantly shocked at the increased conversations that are coming from it. The number of people that have come up to me in an airport, like, it's quadrupled. Yeah. Because people are desperate to certainly understand. But the revival word that's being used so much. I mean, I don't know how else to describe it. We were there together on that Sunday for his ceremony. That's what I wear, that bracelet that they passed out that day at the memorial in Phoenix. And I've never. Ellie, Beth. I've never felt that. 80,000 people. Certainly never been in a place like that, where it's all, you know, so filled with faith. Something is happening.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And to me, that's the only good that I can think will continue to come from the worst possible situation is the number of people that not just his death, but how he died is bringing out in everybody. Have you felt the same name? Yes.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And, like, it was so palpable there at the memorial that. And I know I've talked to a lot of people who watched it virtually, who also felt it. I think that if you, like, if you have the Holy Spirit, you felt it no matter where you were. And that moment, I'm sure you remember, but when everyone kind of started lifting up their signs spontaneously and the music was playing. I know. And I just, like. It was such a stunning moment, and it was totally spontaneous. I've heard the artist now talk on Instagram that it wasn't planned. They didn't really know what to do, and they didn't know what to sing.

[Sage Steele]

Was that Brandon Lake?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Brandon Lake. But it was actually the drummer, I think his name was Donovan, who was just like, keep playing, guys. Just keep playing. And they just played. Which musicians are just amazing. But it was like this incredible moment that I just, like, lost it. Because at first you walk in, you're like, oh, this is so cool. I see Sage Steel. I see Matt Walsh. I see Ben Shapiro. The president's gonna be here. I look through the window, I see Air Force One landing. Like, it's so cool. And you're like, I can't believe I'm with these, you know, 70,000 people, plus all of my, like, favorite commentators. And then it just hits you why you're here. And that moment was just so deep spiritually, it's hard to even describe it.

[Sage Steele]

Now I have chills all over my body again. And what a blessing to be able to experience that in such a moment of devastation and to see the strength of so many. And his pastor speaking and Erica Kirk speaking. And it changed my life. He changed my life again to invite me to the Turning Point USA Faith Summit, where it was scary night. Like, why did he believe in me? Why did he see that in me? How did he see that in me when we didn't even know each other? That I needed it. He felt it. Yeah. And so to be there that day, like, there was so much peace. Yeah, that's the word I kept describing. It took two and a half hours to come from downtown Phoenix and. And traffic backed up for miles and miles. Our driver, who's been working there for 30 years, he says through all the Super Bowls, he's never seen that much traffic. Not a horn was honking. No negativity, kindness and smiles. It actually gives. Gives me so much hope for this screwed up country and society that we live in.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah. Where else can you see a crowd of like 200,000 people? I think it was total, like 200,000 outside the stadium, too, where there's, like, no flight fights, no, like, drunkenness, no crazy. At least that I saw. I mean, security was tight, but no crazy people. I didn't see it. Inside, everyone was super considerate, accommodating, even, like, getting in and out of the bathroom. And like, a lot of these people, because we're in conservative media, they're fans of us, you know, and of course, I talked to a couple people and that was great. I had no problem with that at all. But it's not like people are getting swarmed, you know, like, even Elon Musk is walking by just casually, just like, oh, hi. And so it's amazing. It's just like, everyone had this peace and this respect, that this is a really special moment. It's not a typical moment. It's not a concert. We're part of something. And the dignity of everyone there was really meaningful.

[Sage Steele]

How has his death and legacy, which I think is going to grow until the end of time, changed you and what you want to continue doing?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Initially, I was like, I'm done. I quit. Because I'm not a warrior. I'm a podcaster and I'm a speaker, and I like to talk. That's why I got into this, because I care about this stuff genuinely, but I like to talk. Not because I want to take a bullet. I'm on the front lines of the battlefield of ideas, not an actual battlefield field. And I think and say this now, because this is going to come out after that comes out, but I did this. I had this jubilee debate scheduled, and that's where you have, like, one conservative, and then you got, like, 20 conservatives or 20 liberals around you debating something. And I was like, oh, I'm definitely canceling that. Like, I don't want to be in that hostile environment. And then I talked to my dad, who also, like, knew Charlie a little bit, but mostly, like, through me. Because whenever we would talk about politics or business or media, I'd be like, well, Charlie said. Or he would be like, you need to go ask Charlie that. Because Charlie just always had so much wisdom for me. And he was like, you know, Ally, after this all clears, like, after the emotions kind of settle down, like, you need to ask yourself, like, what would Charlie say? What would he have you do? And I'm like, oh, I. I know exactly what he would tell me. And not just me, but all of us. There was. I looked through our texts as so many people have done. Charlie. I don't even know how he had time to text so many people. Yeah. But over the years, like, whenever there was an article about me or I was getting a lot of hate for something, Charlie would always be in my text saying, keep slugging, Keep going. Good job. What an honor. You're doing great. Great episode. Like, just little things like that, that coming from someone with so much influence just meant a lot. And it did make you want to keep going. It gave you the courage. You're like, you know what? Those people can say what they want. This person's got my back. Um, and so I looked at our text, and the last long conversation that we had was about my jubilee debate because he was so excited for me. He was pumped. I mean, I'm talking 20 texts in a row without me even responding. Say, do this, do that, you got to do this. Remember this? All this stuff. He was like, I'm praying for you. I'm so excited for you. Like, you know, you talked about him believing in you. That was one gift that he gave people. He believed in them. He believed in me. Me, like, really championed me. And I was like, I can't cancel this. Oh, if Charlie knew I was canceling it for him, he would be so disappointed in me. And then I walked into that jubilee debate very nervous and, like, very scared. You got 20 liberals surrounding you. It was one Christian conservative versus 20 liberal Christians. And someone sat down and the first thing they said was, I'm so sorry about your friend Charlie. And that just melted everything. And honestly, it was like a completely Holy Spirit filled three hour debate. Really? Yes. And not to say that there weren't tense moments. Sure. As everyone maybe has seen at this point. Like, there were definitely tense moments. And who knows how it's gonna, like, come out and. But they, the producers were like, afterwards, they were like, that was the best one we've ever done. And I'm telling you, it was the Holy Spirit and Charlie who just like, I just felt prepared for that moment. And honestly, those people, as much as I disagreed with them, were really kind to me and they. They had a lot of grace for me because they know my friend had just been killed and that, like, disarmed all of us.

[Sage Steele]

Beautiful.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

And so beautiful. Thank you, Lord. But also thank you, Charlie, for how you prepared us for going into the lion's den, because he really.

[Sage Steele]

Do you realize how needed you are in this space?

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, thank you.

[Sage Steele]

I mean it. And I'm just beginning and learning. My kids called me that night. We had a FaceTime. It's very difficult to get all three college age kids on a FaceTime. And it was their idea because they were upset and they're like, mom, no more. You can't go speak. It's not worth it. We need to. We can't go do it. And it was such an emotional conversation and two of them were crying. And I'm like, maybe they're right. Like you said, I quit. It's just not worth it.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

It's not worth. Is like, we have no option in my mind but to continue because he Knew the risk. Literally. Right. Bulletproof vest. Like, he knew, and he kept doing it. And he had babies as a. We all have these great excuses that are legitimate. It's bigger than that. And I hope you know. I think you do. But I hope you know from my heart and my kids who listen to you more than me, which is fine. You can't ever stop.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, thank you.

[Sage Steele]

We need you. Thank you for doing this.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, thank you.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Likewise. And I know you feel like you're just getting started, but I don't see you that way. I don't think most people see you that way. Like, we see you as someone who has been, in one way or another, like, champion. Championing. Championing goodness and beauty and truth, and who took a risk for the truth that you did not have to take, but you did in a different way than us. And maybe a lot of us wouldn't have taken that risk if we had had the mainstream accolades, the channel you did. Those of us in conservative media are used to taking the heat. We're used to the media not liking us. We've never had a taste of Disney or ESPN liking us, you know? Yeah, but you were in the position to where you were like, these are my friends, and these are people who've loved me, and you decided, you know, to take a stand, and that's not easy. So don't undersell yourself.

[Sage Steele]

No, thank you. I think that the. It was like, okay, I can do that. But conservative media and politics, never.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Yeah, right.

[Sage Steele]

And then you go to the rally at the Madison Square Garden, and you put the MAGA hat on, and then you go on, you know, the campaign trail with Laura Trump, and you're like, where am I and what am I doing? And it literally comes back to the heart of right. Yeah. In every way. And I hope that I never lose. I don't think as long as my dad's on this or earth, Lord willing, forever, that I will be reminded. And for everybody else, like, when you're struggling with something, continuing to go, to go to that jubilee and to do that, it was the harder right. And look what came from it, like, true beauty. I can't wait to see it.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Well, thank you.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you.

[Ali Beth Stuckey]

Thanks so much, Jesus.