When Your Own Community Turns on You ft. Hodgetwins | Sage Steele Show | EP 87

Summary

The Sage Steele Show, Ep. 87: "When Your Own Community Turns on You" ft. Hodgetwins (Jan 7, 2026)

Host: Sage Steele
Guests: Keith and Kevin Hodge (the Hodgetwins)

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Overview

In this candid and often provocative episode, Sage Steele sits down with Keith and Kevin Hodge—best known as the Hodgetwins—for an unfiltered conversation about their rise from humble beginnings to online stardom, their experiences within the Black community, the impact of absent fathers, political evolution, and why they feel their own community has, at times, "turned on" them. The episode balances humor, tough truths, and vulnerable storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining "Black Fatigue" and Challenging Black Community Norms

• "Black fatigue" is discussed as exhaustion from witnessing negative subcultures, particularly behaviors labeled as "ratchet" or "ghetto" (01:08–05:00).
• Keith and Kevin attribute much of the problematic behavior to broken families and absent fathers, especially as seen in viral videos featuring Black women (02:51).
• They argue there's a cycle of learned behavior and a lack of accountability:

  “I'm not saying it's the black man's fault...women have to take a lot of accountability for their own behavior…our culture has not been able to fix this." – Kevin (02:51)

2. Personal Stories and Humor from Their Dating Lives

• The twins recount vivid (and comedic) stories of violent ex-girlfriends and their eventual preference for Latina wives (07:16–12:01).
• Sage laughs and pushes back, highlighting the line between humor and honesty (09:01):

  “This isn't funny. Why am I laughing?" – Sage (09:01)

3. Evolving Audiences: From Fitness to Politics

• Initially, their fanbase was diverse, but delving into politics “gentrified” their audience, skewing much more white and rural (18:47–19:34).
• They openly discuss the moment they lost 15,000 followers in hours for defending MAGA hat wearers (21:41–22:10).
• Coming "out of the closet" politically is likened to coming out as gay due to fear of backlash (22:36):

  “It felt like a homosexual...it was in the closet and was scared to tell my parents." – Keith (23:00)

4. The Price of Authenticity & Career Risks

• The decision to keep a controversial post online marked a personal and professional turning point (24:29–25:45).
• While political candor initially cost them followers, within six months it led to greater popularity and opportunities.
• They emphasize never hiding who they really are, even if it means “career suicide” (24:30).

5. Trial, Error, and Building a Brand

• Early YouTube days were full of cringeworthy, sometimes misogynistic humor (26:05–27:37).
• Their trajectory went: fitness videos → relationship/dating advice (some intentionally bad)—including infamous bits like "Should I Sleep with My Stepsister?" (35:11).

  “I need to go back and delete a lot of those videos...I think the best advice I ever gave, there was none.” – Keith (33:21)

6. Adversity, Resilience, and the Twin Dynamic

• They describe getting fired as insurance adjusters for making YouTube videos, then going on unemployment—which became the opening they needed (40:14–41:18).
• Success, they say, came from seizing new opportunities—"getting outside your comfort zone"—and always having each other’s back.

7. The Impact of Childhood and Fatherlessness

• The loss of their father at age 14 (on their birthday) deeply shaped their lives (54:29–55:13).
• They discuss cycles of poverty and fatherlessness, and recurring patterns witnessed in their community.
• A local black pastor, Pastor Hawkins, served as a mentor, but, as Keith recalls, they didn't fully appreciate it until adulthood (62:17–65:14).

8. The Politics of Race and Community Criticism

• The twins are blunt in their critique of the state of the Black community—crime, familial breakdown, lack of accountability—and why their views have made them outliers (66:00–80:56).
• They cite culture, epigenetics, and learned behavior as reinforcing cycles of dysfunction.
• Race and politics interweave, with examples of Democratic Party loyalty and the political consequences of Black monolithism (83:23–84:20).
• Candidly:

  "I don't think they realize the negative connotation that comes to people's mind when you think of the black community...they'd rather put it on the white people, the white man." – Keith (79:26)

9. Wider Cultural and Political Critique

• The conversation expands to gender issues, the impact of female leadership, and critique of the “feminization” of society (87:18–90:24).
• They reflect on pain, betrayal, and lasting hurt from both relationships and professional environments, particularly in dealing with women in authority (91:08–95:19).

10. Identity, Acceptance, and Their Hope for the Future

• Neither Keith nor Kevin feel fully accepted by Black or white communities—particularly after openly supporting Republican/conservative ideas (76:07–77:09).
• Both want to "see the world and people for what it is" and raise their own kids to be accountable and objective (108:23).
• Their ultimate hope:

  "Hopefully one day black community will open eyes and see what's really going on...hopefully our message can bring people from the left and the right together more than what we are now." – Kevin (103:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On audience backlash:

  "Man, we put that video up and we lost, like, I want to say, like, 15,000 followers in, like, matter of minutes on Instagram. It looked like Bitcoin's chart going down." – Keith (21:41)

• On relationship advice:

  "Should I sleep with my stepsister? …that video went wild… We even acted it out and everything." – Kevin (35:11)

• On their twin bond:

  "If you had a twin and you like each other's best friend, like you don't really need anybody else…" – Keith (57:08)

• On lack of hope for change in the Black community:

  "I don't even think it's fixable at this point. It's just like, there's accountability in the black community. When you try to give people advice…they come at you like you're attacking the black community." – Kevin (68:51)

• On the effect of women in authority:

  "I know men have did a lot of evil things in history, but… there’s a special kind of evil in a woman that I haven’t seen in a man." – Keith (90:24)

• On growing up poor:

  "I remember we didn't have food. And there was this apple tree down the street… We would climb that tree… to pick some damn apples off his tree so my mom could make a pie. That's how poor." – Kevin (107:37)

• On legacy and purpose:

  "Just being in a position where I'm raising my son and my daughter to be like, accountable human beings. See the world for what it is." – Keith (108:23)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp (MM:SS) | Segment | |-----------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:08–06:00 | Black Fatigue Defined, Community Critique | | 17:30–20:00 | Shifting Audiences, Going Political | | 21:00–24:50 | Losing Followers, Coming Out as Conservative | | 27:00–33:00 | Early Content, Relationship Advice, Comedy | | 40:15–41:18 | Losing Job, Turning Unemployment to Opportunity | | 54:29–55:13 | Father's Death and Impact | | 61:07–65:14 | Mentorship by Pastor Hawkins | | 66:00–80:56 | Accountability in Black Community, Political and Cultural Cycles | | 87:18–90:24 | Gender & Authority, Feminization, Betrayal | | 108:23–110:00 | Reflections on Family, Pride in Achievement | | 112:27–End | Summing Up, Embracing Authenticity & Resilience |

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Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, the Hodgetwins maintain their trademark mix of irreverence and raw honesty, interlaced with self-deprecation, bold humor, and moments of real vulnerability. Sage matches them, pressing for clarity when needed, laughing at their stories, and openly respecting their forthrightness.

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Final Takeaway

The Hodgetwins’ journey—marked by poverty, familial loss, risk-taking, and standing by often “unpopular” opinions—underscores the complexity of Black identity, political transformation, and the cost and value of authenticity. Their hope: that, by refusing to toe either side’s line, their story may inspire greater personal accountability and honest discussion, not just within the Black community, but across all of American society.

Transcript

[A]

A couple of days ago in Las Vegas, I got to sit down with two people who made me laugh so hard at the most inappropriate moments. I've actually never laughed so hard during an episode of the Sage Deal show with the Hodge twins, Keith and Kevin. And their story. It's insane. From very humble beginnings in Martinsville, Virginia. They were insurance adjusters, they worked security. They were in the marines together, and they're now YouTube mega stars, among many other things. We go deep on all of it. We talk about losing their job, dad at just the age of 14, their entire childhood relationships, things not to do with women, kids, many jobs, race politics, you name it. They speak their minds. And it is hilarious and insightful and entertaining and offensive. All the beautiful things. By the way, don't miss the behind the scenes on my Patreon channel, in particular this episode. It is pure gold. Keith and Kevin, the Hodge twins on this episode of the Sage Steel Show. The term black fatigue.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Please define.

[B]

Really needs more context because it's not really black. Black fatigue. Black. It's like the infatigue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The ratchet. Ghetto. Ratchet culture subculture within the black community. But this is something that's been brewing in our society for a long time. But white people and other demographics don't smell. Speak out about it because they'll be labeled racist. Like we label white people as Karens.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Who came up with that term? Black people.

[A]

Really?

[B]

They was asking for. With the term black fatigue. They've been calling white people currents. Yeah. It was just a matter of time before white people came up with their own term that everybody's already fully aware of.

[A]

So what exactly does it mean? Tired of what exactly?

[B]

The ratchet ghetto behavior. Loud, loud. Ghetto. Ratchet. Yeah. Entitled. Yeah. Obnoxious people who are. Happen to be black. Yeah. Yeah. And there. There's another quote. What is it Embarrassed of? Offended by everything, but embarrassed by nothing. Something like that. Yeah. Offended by everything. Embarrassed enough. Yeah. It's just as a community behavior in public is horrible. I see it all the time in my feed of just. And it's mainly black women. Women more than men, just fighting and just being loud. Attacking people that work in customer service, in public and just having these arguments and it's. It's. It's overwhelmingly black women. Yeah.

[A]

Why. Why do you think?

[B]

They grew up without a father, majority of them. And that behavior they learn is from their mother being frustrated and being alone. And it's just passed down to their children. Just a vicious cycle. You can see it sometimes in White women. But it's real prevalent in black women because our homes are broken, we have no fathers, and women are. Black women are raising four or five kids all by themselves. I'm not saying it's the black man's fault, because I think women have to take a lot of accountability for their own behavior. But it's just that vicious cycle that our culture has not been able to fix and alleviate and steer away from.

[A]

Because it's heartbreaking.

[B]

Yeah, it's really heartbreaking.

[A]

It's actually heartbreaking.

[B]

I mean, you notice the videos too, right? I don't even have to look for it. It's just in my feed. Maybe, I don't know, Instagram. No, I'm racist. They just put it in my feed. But I see it and I just see it in public. Yeah. Like you can find some ratchet behavior from white community. But it's a stark difference because whenever I talk about white people being, you know, ghetto, it's over something so trivial. Like, we did a video about this. It was a white couple. You could tell it was like rural Virginia or East coast somewhere. They were very green, right. And this man's. I mean, this, this, this hurt, this wife or this husband who lived next door came up, said, hey, I heard you talking about my husband the other day. He said, I wasn't talking about your husband. He said, yes, I did. He said, no, I wasn't talking about your husband. But you know what? Going forward, every time I see your husband come out of the house, I'm going to talk mad shit about him. So they got in a back and forth. He got into a huge fight. It's like when I see black people exploding and just being ratchet. It's over something so stupid and trivial as that. But it's always economical.

[A]

Or what about the incident in Cincinnati and there's a white couple being beaten and the celebration by 50 young black kids that someone could potentially be dying and they're laughing and recording.

[B]

Yeah. And that's why that term black fatigue is so prevalent, because white people's been experiencing. I mean, I experienced it. And I'm black. I abort black neighborhoods. I abort black people because I know depending on the environment you're in, the location, it's going to come with some type of baggage. And it's not. I wouldn't say it's racist, just pattern recognition. Black people need to be accountable for their behavior. Stop calling everybody racist. Look how you behave. That's why they're calling you that. That's why they Came with that term. That's why black people came with the term caring. Because you calling the cops on a black girl selling bottled water, it's just stupid, you know? Yeah. It's just common sense. I lived in a black community one time when I was in the Marine Corps in San Diego. And I came out to my car one morning going to work. There's a bullet hole in the side of my Geo Metro. At a lime green Geo Metro had a bullet hole inside of it. I get in my car and I go up to the stop sign, make a right, make another left, hit the freeway. There's a prostitute standing there. Black communities suck. Majority of them. Not all of them. I'm sure there's some great black communities out there, but it's more common for a black community to be dilapidated, just poor.

[A]

Well, look at our cities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it is not a coincidence that all of those major cities are blue.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's just not.

[B]

Yeah. And then you combine it with mass illegal immigration. It's just. I still. It still boggles my mind why black people ran to the polls at a 90% clip and still voted for a Democrat when they flooded your cities and took your resources and gave it to people that's not even entitled to get those benefits. It's like, that's why. That's why I lost a lot of faith with blacks. Because I don't think they can see it.

[A]

They're choosing. Choosing not to.

[B]

I hope it's a choice. I hope it's a choice. You say it's genetic, huh? Man, that thing got 50 miles to the gallon. You can blame it on your black wife because she told me, get the damn thing. Yeah. I was married to a black woman at this time.

[A]

You were. You both have been divorced.

[B]

She used to beat his ass. She used to beat my ass, too. No, that woman used to abuse me.

[A]

You got beaten up?

[B]

She would hit me. Yeah. It was so bad. You still filming? Let's go with it. We went to the DMV and there was this girl helping us. I was with my wife and I said something that pissed her off, and she did like this, right. Now, I did this right. This happened in public. I was 18, maybe 19 at the time.

[A]

You were married at 18?

[B]

Yeah, 19. I was 19. We were married. And I put my hands down and I looked at the girl that was helping me. She looked at me like, That's why I don't date black women.

[A]

Shut up. Shut up.

[B]

I dated a black woman. I was like, man, I ain't Ever doing this shit again. And then one time we was in Robinson May in Chula Vista. We was in a shopping. I don't know what the hell I was doing. It was National City. I remember this. And we got into an argument. And she was hitting me in public. In public. And I was running and she was chasing me. I said, you crazy black bitch. I remember. I remember I was arguing with my black girlfriend at the time. Over. We was arguing in the kitchen. Cause she used to make this steak with this gravy and rice. And I was like, that tastes different. What gravy did you make? What's the mushroom sauce? And she took it the wrong way. And my little girl, she had a. She had a toy. You pull it, it go, woof, woof, woof. She took the thing off, hit me in the back, right? I didn't have no shirt on. That shit hurt so bad. I was paralyzed for 30 seconds, right?

[A]

This isn't funny. Why am I laughing?

[B]

This shit's funny. Shit is kind of fucked up, but it is funny. I was frozen. I was like, I can't move. And I think two weeks or a month went by. I said, keep. Man, I don't think I'm gonna date black women anymore. Cause all these women be trying to beat my ass over nothing. Oh, I have another story about my wife. Like, my wife in San Diego, black women are violent. Yeah. Like, the only woman that's ever said, put your hands up, let's do this shit. Was a black. Shut up. I was like, it is something wrong with these people? My ex wife, I remember we was living in this apartment in San Diego, and the cops was coming out like every. Maybe once every week. And I remember this cop told me, said, look, you're in the Marine Corps. If you put your hands on her, you're going to get kicked out of the military. It's going to ruin your life. He said, so whatever you do, do not put your hands on her, right? So one day we get into a fight, and I'm just grabbing her, keeping her from hitting me. I'm tired of getting my ass whooped, right? So she starts screaming, ah. She runs out the door. Next door, neighbors hear her. What's going on? He just hit me. I was like, I didn't hit you. So the cops come, and she's telling the cops how I punched her in the head. And the cops get down. I said, well, look, I didn't punch her. I said, look at my arms. I've been holding this woman off of me and I Never punched her. If I punched her, she'd probably be dead.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not a small guy.

[A]

Yeah, big guy.

[B]

So it was the same cop. I said, we already had this conversation. I know better. I didn't put a hand on. I had all these defensive wounds on my arms. And he looked at her. He said, where did he hit you? There's nothing there. So they end up taking her to jail.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Seriously? A heart attack. I'll never forget that. He took her to jail.

[A]

And this is when you were married?

[B]

I was 19.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

I was a lance corporal. We split up. She went to Fresno, and I just stayed in San Diego. Remember that other black girl you was dating when you went to the Marine Corps? Oh, when I told her I was joining the Marine Corps, yeah. I told her. I was like, man, I'm doing something in my life. I'm gonna go. I'm joining the Marines. And she got pissed, and she's like, ah. I was in my driveway. She picks up this rock.

[A]

What?

[B]

She picks up a big rock. Yeah, right. It was like this big house, like. And she takes the rock and throws it at me. He hits me in the shoulder. I'm like, why did you do that? She's like, because you're leaving me. I said, well, I'm going to boot camp. I said, when I get settled, you can come out. We're together, right?

[A]

So we're gonna throw a rock.

[B]

So I'm gonna throw a rock at you. I have all these horrible, expensive black ones. I don't know why you didn't notice the pattern until I got older. I was like, I don't think I'm dating these n no more. Oh, my God.

[A]

I cannot with you.

[B]

I was like, I take my chance with these white, racist white women. Now we end up marrying Latinas.

[A]

Yeah. So it's nice in the middle.

[B]

Yes, right there in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. She crazy, too. Well, I dated a woman from Iraq when I was in the Marine Corps. She said she was gonna blow up the barracks. Yeah. I pissed off. She said, I'm gonna blow your barracks up. This is when the Iraq war is going on and everything. We got stereotypes for Reese. She said, I'm gonna blow your barracks up.

[A]

She did not.

[B]

She did. San Diego was down at. She was from Iraq. I remember I was dating this Arabic girl. But, you know, they weren't supposed to date outside of their race.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So we sneak around, and then we were sitting at the. I was a security guard at the time. I was at the mall.

[A]

A mall security guard.

[B]

Yeah, I was. Lowlife, wasn't going anywhere. Her mom came in, and I was like. I didn't know who she was. She was just rolling her eyes at me. She was, like, looking at me like I was the plague. Then I was like, who's this crazy bitch keep staring at me? She's like, oh, shit, that's my mom. I said, well, you're dead. But she said. I said, I can't see anymore. She said. And then all her brothers, her family, it was like eight of them came in, said. And they told her, if I catch you with that. With that black guy again, we're going to stone you to death. But first, we're going to kill you and burn you alive in front of him. And then we're going to kill him. Yeah. What was.

[A]

She told you this?

[B]

She told me this. What was she. She was. She was Arabic. Yeah. Her name was Mandeep. Her name was Mandeep. I don't think she was Arabic. She was Indian. She was Indian. She was Houthi. Mandeep or something like that. She was Indian. I was like, that's a weird thing. She wasn't Arabic. She was Indian. They all look alike, but she was Indian. You know what's crazy? I went to London, England, to do a comedy show.

[A]

You like that Indian wedding about to go on behind us?

[B]

Let me keep it down. I bet she heard you. We was in London, England, doing a comedy show years ago when we was just in the fitness and we got to. I said, man, I didn't know Mexicans was in London, but there were a bunch of Muslims. I thought they were Mexicans. It's like, wow, what accent is that? You're not Mexican.

[A]

I cannot. It was crazy, you guys. You keep saying, remember when I dated this girl and that. Like, you dated a lot of women.

[B]

I can still count them on both hands.

[A]

Doesn't sound like it.

[B]

Most men. I grew up with guys, man. Yeah. I had cousins. Slept with over 100 women.

[A]

What?

[B]

I think we've been about, what, 20 women each? Ain't been with that many women, you whore. No, just dating girlfriends. Yeah, yeah. I'm talking about slamming, you know, Slamming.

[A]

You said that on purpose.

[B]

Well, I don't want to get too well for the algorithm. They don't know what I'm talking about. But you know what I'm talking about. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Slamming. I never heard that before.

[A]

And the Marines.

[B]

Slamming inside.

[A]

Okay, okay. But dated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, fell in love.

[B]

Yeah. I think I've been in love three.

[A]

Three or four love three times.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay, three for 50.

[B]

I don't even think it was love though.

[A]

In hindsight, it smells love.

[B]

More like love.

[A]

It's usually not in hindsight, right? You're like, I thought that was love and that was not.

[B]

Yeah, it was love.

[A]

Especially if they're throwing rocks and threatening to blow you off.

[B]

Yeah, that was crazy that came. But she's hits me with it.

[A]

She was strong.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, yeah, Black women will. A black woman will whoop your ass. Black women fight like men. Yeah, you got that white brain. But a lot of black women, man, they are physical.

[A]

I've never been in a fight in my life. Yeah, any kind of fight.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Well, yeah, it depends where you're from, right? What kind of neighborhood you grew up in. I wouldn't know what to do.

[B]

And how would you erase too though?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I pretend to like fight my husband and my daughter and every night I'll be like, ready for some karate. And they laugh because they know that I couldn't. It's a joke.

[B]

Of course the black women I grew up around, they had to use you as a punching bag. Oh, pretty and all. I can't stand her. Look at her. Oh, pretty.

[A]

I hate to admit it, but I'm no stranger to bloating and general gut discomfort. So I've spoken to doctors. They all say the same thing. Eat slower, take a walk after a meal, avoid processed foods. And I swear I do all of that, but sometimes I still feel kind of gross. Recently though, I learned a little bit more about colostrum, which is the very first milk that babies receive from their mothers after birth. And I remember hearing all about it when all of my three kids were born. And I called it liquid gold because it's packed with proteins, natural growth factors and peptides that work together to help your immune system. It also reduces inflammation and bloating. That's a big deal. And that is why I'm excited about today's sponsor. It is called Cowboy Colostrum. Here it is. It offers the highest quality bovine colostrum. Bovine is cow colostrum and it's the highest quality available in the United States. Cowboy colostrum is always made in America from 100% American grass fed cows. And they don't over process or strip their colostrum like other brands do. Cowboy leaves it whole, full fat, high protein for ultimate nutrient density, making it the highest quality cow colostrum that you can buy. Say it again. Cow colostrum you can buy, by the way. It's easy to drink and it is made with delicious natural ingredients. No artificial flavors. You just add a scoop into your coffee or into your smoothies. The flavors are actually good. Organic chocolate, Madagascar vanilla. That's what this one is. Or strawberry made with organic freeze dried strawberries. As an added bonus, your hair, your skin will look amazing because of the natural growth factors and peptides in Cowboy Colostrum. So for limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com sage and use code sage at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code [e-mail] sage and after you buy it, they're going to ask where you heard about them. Please support the Sage Steel show and tell them we sent you. You know, can I share this with you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was talking to my parents this morning and they knew I was here for another event. And I'm like, well, I'm in Vegas. They go, well, who are you going to sit down with? And I said, hodge twins. My mother, who is 76 beautiful years old, my dad. They were like, what? Hodge twins.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Like half the time they don't know who I'm sitting down with. And this time they lost it. And they're 76 and 79 years old. So you've got that demographic and then you got the youngsters. That's beautiful. To me, that's like, that's rare.

[B]

You know what's crazy? When we started fitness, our audience is much younger, but when we delved into politics, it like changed overnight. I mean, we had a show in Tennessee. Yeah. Nashville comedy show. Yeah. And we sold tickets, of course. And we got there and we was looking out at the crowd to see how the venue's filling up. Yeah. And we look out there, it's like, who the hell are these people? I think they're at the wrong show. Yeah. Cause overall fan base changed overnight. When we went into politics, we had a good mix, a good diverse audience. It was probably indicative of, you know, the demographics of the country. Like maybe 15, 20% of it was black and, you know, 40% white and other 15, 20%, like Hispanic or whatever. But when we switched to politics, it just gentrified our audience. Yeah.

[A]

So it surprised you.

[B]

Yeah. And I was looking, I was like, man, these look like some farmers. Yeah, they're big girls and cowboy hats and cowboy boots.

[A]

So all white people.

[B]

All white. And I was so nervous. I was like, man, I hope they like me, so I hope they're not racist.

[A]

Well, they paid money to raise your show.

[B]

But, you know, I used to be a Democrat, so I still had to harbor this feeling in the back of my mind is like, you know, is it true what they say about rural America? Yeah. Right. But when I went out there for the show, man, everybody stood up for, like, it felt like five minutes to gave us a standing ovation.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How'd that feel?

[B]

I can feel it right now. Chill bumps all over your body. So we did the show, and then right before we went off stage, they gave us another standing ovation. I was like, wow. Yeah, yeah. Totally changed my perspective on whites, rural America, and just Republicans in general, because I always had. I always aligned with more with political views when it came to politics with Republicans, even though I was Democrat. It's just. I always thought it was the best thing for me to do as a black person. Job as a black person. Yeah, that's my obligation to vote. But then I started noticing the direction the country was going in. I started leaning more right. And then it was just. Man, it just came to fruition when I was on stage. It's like, this is where I was supposed to be. This is. Always wanted to share these beliefs. And I think it was your idea that we went into politics. Cause it was that video. Oh, the kid. That was your idea? No, I told you it was career suicide. No, the guy who got attacked for wearing a Make America Great Again hat. Yeah. White kid guy. It was a whataburger. You remember that?

[A]

When was this?

[B]

Oh, it's been years. That's been like eight years ago now.

[A]

I mean, it would have been MAGA. I mean, that's so at least 2016. So sometime. Right.

[B]

I think it was a little bit before that. And that was his first term. Before his first term, actually. Yeah.

[A]

Right. So when he was running after he'd announced. Okay, so what was it about the kid who got attacked wearing a MAGA hat that made you decide, I want to do politics now?

[B]

We thought it was horrible. So I said, let's just come down the middle. Yeah, right. Let's say no one should ever be attacked for their First Amendment speech. Right. Man, we put that video up and we lost, like, I want to say, like, 15,000 followers in, like, matter of minutes on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, it was in minutes, Kevin.

[A]

A day, man.

[B]

It looked like Bitcoin's chart going down. It, like, fell off a tablet. I'd say probably in, like, about Eight hours. Eight hours. I said, I think I'm gonna delete this.

[A]

Delete, delete.

[B]

I remember before we even did that video, we was at the airport and there's this paper cutout of Trump. Yeah. It looks so real in the picture. Me and Keith put our arms around it. Oh, yeah. Took a picture. We took a picture and we put it up. People went in on it. Y' all took a picture of Trump.

[A]

Oh, my. You're like, it is a photo.

[B]

Deleted that picture. Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because of the feedback we was giving back. Yeah. This before we came out the closet, though. This is before I came out the closet.

[A]

Yeah. Do you know how many times I've said that? That I am now out of the closet? And it feels so good. It's so. But that's. It is. I mean, we can't compare what it feels like to be gay and come out fine. But the idea of it is true, where you are.

[B]

You just try not to feel like.

[A]

You have to be quiet, who you.

[B]

Really are from people, because you don't want any backlash. It felt like a homosexual.

[A]

There we go. You said it better than I could. There you go.

[B]

Felt like a flaming homosexual. It was in the closet and was scared to tell my parents, but I.

[A]

Have, and I have. I have. I had like, one of my really good, good friends actually lives here in Vegas. She's gay, by the way. She doesn't like lesbian as a woman. She's like, don't call me lesbian. Call me gay. I'm like, that's a whole show in itself. We need to go deep on that. I don't understand.

[B]

These are definitely kinky. Don't call me that. I'm gay.

[A]

But she talks about that and how she literally feared and feared judgment from her family. Obviously we've heard about that all, you know, for hundred years about that with gay people. But with politics, it's not supposed to feel that way. So did you want to ever jump back in the closet when you came out?

[B]

The left is nuts. Yeah. I don't want to have anything to do with them. People on the left nowadays is just. You can't even really call them liberal anymore. They're more progressive.

[A]

You know, Bill Maher says that. He says the classic liberal is very different from these woke progressives. There is a difference. And I feel like. I feel almost bad for classic liberals because it's been hijacked.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Whereas if you're a classic liberal nowadays, you're actually Republican.

[A]

It's kind of true. They just can't Say it out loud now. Guess what? They're closeted.

[B]

Yeah. And they get attacked.

[A]

But, okay, so you delete the first post of you with your arm around Trump, but the second one, when you lost 15,000 followers in two minutes, you decide to leave up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I was like, I don't want these people. I hate, like, hiding who I am. I hate the direction the country's going in. So I'm just gonna be me. Yeah. And if it's career suicide, so be it. Yeah. We always been open book, so. Right. For us to be able. For us to turn on the camera and be something that we're not, it was like. It felt unnatural to us. Like, we always been ourselves. An open book, so.

[A]

But it is a decision. It is a specific decision. I remember when I was at the Trump rally right before the election in 2024 at Madison Square Garden, and of course, I was kind of out of the closet already, but I decided to take a picture with a MAGA hat. Dark Maga.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I knew Dark maga. Dark maga. I knew that when I did that. It's over.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some aspects of my life are over, and who knows the potential of what's to come? But it is an intentional decision at that moment, in that case, to leave the post up, to leave the MAGA hat on. Was there a little fear? Because you said that you were a little more apprehensive and you weren't.

[B]

I was just too stupid to be apprehensive. Really. He was more cautious, but I was like, just do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it actually was a silver lining because actually we're more popular than we ever been by making that bold decision. So it worked out for the best.

[A]

How quickly did you see that turn towards actually gaining more followers, more popularity?

[B]

I think about six months. Six months in. Yeah. Yeah. I think about six months.

[A]

So were there strategic meetings, conversations, like, with your team saying, you know, how do we.

[B]

We don't really have a team. It's always just been us. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know. Yeah. We just. I don't know how to put it. It's just. We just, like. I mean, we went vegan for a time, so. So we just started doing vegan content now. It's like, you know what? This really makes them start eating meat again. It's just like when we just always did things together and grown together and matured together. Cause when we first started YouTube, I don't think I was really mature at the time. I look at a lot of my old content, and it's Like I look at it now, it's kind of cringe. We've grown a lot. Yeah, it's very misogynistic. It's like male sexual humor. And that's how we built our initial audience. Our audience was so toxic. I was afraid to take a picture with someone like you because you were going in the comments. Right. It was crazy.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Like when we first started YouTube. Right. Let's say we take a picture with you and post it on Instagram in the comments section. It was ridiculous.

[A]

Oh, you mean just gross guys.

[B]

Cause our fan base was 80% guys. Yeah.

[A]

And you had encouraged those kind of conversations with your content.

[B]

Well, I don't know if I encouraged it. I definitely galvanized it. I mean, but we would make sexual innuendos in our videos, but I didn't think it would translate. When I take a picture in public with a woman, you know, and they would just go there, they would say all the stuff we say in our videos in the comments. And then I'm like.

[A]

And then why are you surprised?

[B]

I mean, idiots. The total idiots.

[A]

But by the way, you both were married.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my wife. Oh, my wife. Oh my God. People used to ask, what do your husband do for a living? She said, he's a janitor.

[A]

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[B]

She would tell nobody. She would tell anybody. She would tell the kids.

[A]

So your wife is one that's like, I'm not taking pictures with him. Because then they know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That. And they didn't like our content at all. Yeah. Cause it was like.

[A]

Because it's male sexual humor.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's like a don't swim, like after 2am Type of content. But you know what? When we.

[A]

Was that a thing, though? Like, when you go home, were there moments where your wives would be upset? Like, okay, I get this. You took this one a little too far. Did you have those moments?

[B]

Oh, definitely. That's what it feels like every night.

[A]

Okay, give me an example.

[B]

It's been so long ago, that content. I told her, I said, look, just stop looking at it. It's just comedy. It's just comedy. Why you take it so seriously? It's just. I'm just guys being guys. Me and my brother, when we get together, it's like, it gets really goofy and stupid. And we're just making.

[A]

And hi. Was paying our bills all of a sudden.

[B]

Yeah. When the checks started rolling in, she was like, okay, I'll just shut up. And if she really was offended by anything I said, she would just go out and buy a new purse.

[A]

This is what you get.

[B]

Yup. She goes, new purse.

[A]

Okay. So then you're like, well, maybe I need to slow down. Which you did not. No, I think it's smart. It's business. You were having fun, which is so cool. And watching your numbers, and when you're paying attention to those algorithms and the comments, et cetera, you see that it's working. So you went from that to that. That. But the jokes, of course. Comedy, stand up fitness.

[B]

And then we went to relationships.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that's where it got hairy with our wives. Yeah. That's when it got really hard. Cause fitness pretty much can't put your foot in your mouth. Yeah. But when we started going into relationship advice, then that's when it got a little hard with the wife. And then from there, we went in and apologized.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, let's back. Go back to that.

[B]

That's when we got in trouble, when we started doing relationships.

[A]

What made you qualified to give relationship advice?

[B]

Trial and error. Made a whole bunch of mistakes and learned from them. Like just prior relationships. Not listening to your girlfriend, not spending time with them. Like, the little things. Not taking the trash out. Not leaving your underwear in the bathroom on the floor. Just. What is she talking about? I mean, all the mistakes. We like when you learn from each relationship, you learn from your errors. And at the time when we started that relationship channel, I think was in our mid-30s. So we had learned a lot. Yeah. So. And I remember we was doing a fitness video, and we gave some kind of tip on relationships. And then all the fans are like, hey, that's a great idea. Why don't y' all start a relationship channel? Right. So that's why we started it. Yeah. And it took off. I guess people just like how horrible our advice was. Really? Right. People just laugh along with it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Think it's like the misogynistic way we looked at relationships. Yeah. We was, like, very, very taboo. It was nothing like it on the Internet.

[A]

True.

[B]

Yeah. So it's like we was able to distinguish ourselves from Everybody else on YouTube.

[A]

What was the. Okay, I'm going to ask best and worst, what was the best advice that you think you gave?

[B]

I think it's all been horrible. I need to go back and delete a lot of those videos. No, I think the best advice I ever gave, there was none. I'm sure we gave some cause.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, we gave great advice. I mean, I'm just. I'm downplaying it, but yeah. Yeah, we were great. We were great. I think the best advice that we gave on the Internet is helping people lose weight, helping people get through breakups, stuff like that. Yeah. We tell them things like, everybody's been through this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I said, look at these famous rich people. They go through it, so don't feel bad because it happens to you. If it can happen at Brad Pitt, it can happen to your fat ass, too. You know, that's the kind of advice we gave that really helped people get over their breakup. He's right. I remember One video. I said, you could be a total loser. Go to the grocery store or wherever. Just go and just talk to women. You're gonna probably strike out 9 out of 10 times, but all it takes is that one and you're still a winner.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So when we painted that picture to people, it helped a lot of people. Yeah. That's crazy, but it's true. No. Get away from me. No. No.

[A]

A lot of no's, a lot of nos. All it takes is one, but that's it. And I always attributed this to Wayne Gretzky. Maybe it was Michael Jordan. I don't know who it was. But you missed 100% of the shots that you don't take. Right. And that one, you win the NBA Finals, could get you that date.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So that's all good. That's all fair.

[B]

There's a lot of bad. I think mostly most of it was good. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And you did it in a funny way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But is there one. Is there one, like, really bad one that you knew when you were giving the advice was terrible?

[B]

This one video, it said, should I sleep with my stepsister? No. And that video went nuts. Cause you can imagine what we said.

[A]

No, please share. I didn't see that.

[B]

We even acted it out and everything. That video went wild.

[A]

When you say acted it out.

[B]

Well, it was a hypothetical. We played this scenario for everybody that's watching us. Mommy and Daddy went to your grocery store. No. Stuck at home with my stepsister. But in this scenario, she had twin brothers.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

So we, like, acted out Mama. Just pull it up. Put your clothes. It was just comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we did give great advice. I said, look, if she's blood related, she's totally hands off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If she's. But, Kevin, if you. That's just a piece of paper. That's just a piece of paper.

[A]

If it's a step, then it's. There's. There's no balance.

[B]

If you share a mother or father. Yeah, you'll sick. You sick. But if it's just. Did you imagine the Brady Bunch following that advice? Were they all other sisters? No, they was like.

[A]

It was blended.

[B]

It was blended. Oh, okay. Stepbrothers and sisters. Yeah, but they should have turned into an orgy on the Brady Bunch.

[A]

America would not be the same today.

[B]

You know, in real life, he was actually banging his mom on the show. And the father was a homosexual. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that. It's true.

[A]

I had no idea.

[B]

Yeah. Are you sure he was Actually begging one of the kids.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

The dad?

[A]

Yeah, one of the kids.

[B]

Yeah. And the mom was begging one of the kids, too.

[A]

Really?

[B]

So they pro. The dad had aids. Oh, my God.

[A]

Where was I?

[B]

He had that first strand of aids.

[A]

So he didn't last long, is what you're saying.

[B]

It was one big orgy. Every time I look at that shot, I was like, wow.

[A]

Okay, okay. So you see, this is why people watch you. Because a simple question can go way over here or way over here. It's beautiful, right?

[B]

Yeah. Some people think it's beautiful.

[A]

Well, I think you're millions of viewers and subscribers on all the platforms, so I think that's something that is. Obviously, it's amazing. And as a younger creator, we need a different title for. Because I'm not young, but I'm new at the creator thing. Right. But I watch you guys, and I'm kind of in awe of it. Primarily because you've just not been afraid to try things. Every single thing someone said, hey, you should start a relationship channel because of one video. And you say, what the hell? Let's go do it. Let's go try it. Where does that come from?

[B]

We found out really quick on YouTube. You have to take a lot of initiative. You got to stay relevant. You gotta stay fresh. You gotta embrace opportunities. Yeah. A lot of times people don't even realize they have all these opportunities in front of them, and they shoot it down because they're not ready to do it. Or I do that later when it should have just embraced it at that time in the morning and made the most of it. I think we've really done a great job of just making the most of each and every opportunity that came my way. And we found out that the opportunities that's in front of you is getting outside of your comfort zone. When you embrace that, you really find hidden opportunities to take advantage of. A lot of people like to stay in a box and stay comfortable, but no, that you got to do the direct opposite. Not only on YouTube, but in life.

[A]

And where did you learn that?

[B]

Trial and error.

[A]

It is scary. I wonder. Obviously, you've lived your entire lives together side by side, literally and figuratively. Do you think you would have been as comfortable taking those chances had you been doing it a lot?

[B]

Probably not. Because we feed off each other. Yeah. Like, and when we fail, we fail together, and we can laugh at each other. It's hard to fail. I think it's tougher when you fail and you're all by yourself and you have nobody to pick you up. Yeah. You know, we've always been there to pick each other up. Whenever we fail. We kind of privileged in that way. We are on own team. Yeah. You know, we say we don't have a team, but we are a team actuality. Yeah.

[A]

You've had so much success, obviously, and then you're still growing and you're still trying new things and putting it out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was the low point of this? I mean, starting with becoming creators in the early 2000s. What was the low point of this? Because it was. You're on the forefront of it really. I mean, in the last, you know, I'd say the last 10 years, it is exploding and everybody wants a piece of it. But you were there when no one else was, right?

[B]

Right. Yeah. It was in its infancy, YouTube. I mean, people were making money and trying to make a career out of it, but it really just think was been up maybe three or four years at the time. Yeah, yeah. And we've seen so many people come and go and it just seems like we still like living a dream. Like how much longer can we continue to do this? But so long as you put out content that people that engages people, you can continue to do it.

[A]

Was there a low point?

[B]

I don't think there was the only low point. I would say when we started, when we first started, we actually would. We couldn't find time to do videos. So on our lunch break we would go downstairs. Cause we had this job together. We was insurance adjusters.

[A]

Excuse me?

[B]

We was insurance adjusters. Speak up, man. Why are you whispering?

[A]

Insurance adjusters.

[B]

Yeah. And prior to that, we as private investigators and. And all that, but. But we was trying to find time to do the videos. So we actually end up getting fired from doing the videos because we was, you know, listening to videos and.

[A]

And then you're knocking on doors and like.

[B]

Yeah, I would say that was the low point because we wasn't earning a Living on YouTube at that point when you got fired. And now we had no job. And then so we was on unemployment. I said, man, this is a great time to see if we can perhaps build a following on YouTube. Let's see if we can make it work. And I think I was on unemployment for damn near what. Unemployment, welfare, all that was snap recipients.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How long were you on? Oh, I think it was like assistance.

[B]

It's been so long. I think about like six, seven months. Yeah, something like that. And then we started earning like a little revenue where we could. We didn't need to be on the benefits anymore. And we lost our benefits because of the income we was generating. But. And then it just slowly started growing. And now we didn't have to find a job. Now we was working from home. And I think when you work for yourself, you don't have a boss, a job to rely on. So you always think the worst. So you always keep pushing forward. You keep always embracing opportunities that come your way. Because you have nobody else to blame but yourself if it fails. A lot of people clock in, go to work. They just going in and just do their job. And they don't have to worry about how's the company doing financially. As creators, you have to. Yeah, as creators, you have to always worry about that. Cause you're your own boss. You gotta make sure there's revenue always coming in. So that's what kept us galvanized, to always be trying new opportunities.

[A]

So you're insurance agents together. So what was that like?

[B]

Well, that job sucked. That job sucked. I was trying to sell that damn Aflac insurance. Oh, we was telemarketers for a while. We'll call people. Cause they give you a phone number. Just call these people and see if you can sell them insurance. And people are so cruel and mean. Oh, man, people are so racist. Let me tell this story. I called this guy, right? He said, are you black? I can hear it in your voice.

[A]

Oh my God. Oh my God. What'd you say?

[B]

I just started laughing cause I got a sick sense of humor. So I said, yeah, I'm black. I'm calling to offer you this insurance. Help save your family in need of emergency. Yeah, he called me the N word. Get a real job. Yeah, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, it was funny. I lasted two days to that job. Because you're calling people. They just got home from work. You take it home. You take it home with you. You getting called word every day and it affects you.

[A]

I can't believe. I can tell by the way you talk.

[B]

Yeah, I could hear it in your voice. He said I could hear it in your voice. You remember that one party said, are you still there? I can hear you breathing.

[A]

Wait, are you guys on that call together?

[B]

Yeah, we was right beside each other. Yeah. So here I was right here with a phone book, just calling people. Cold calling.

[A]

Do you know that I did that?

[B]

Did you?

[A]

I did it not for insurance. I did it for Time Life books.

[B]

Oh, okay. Wow.

[A]

And I would have to cold call and they would be so mean. You were interrupting me during my dinner.

[B]

That's what they would say.

[A]

And I was like, it was.

[B]

So you would take it personally.

[A]

It was the scariest thing. But I wanted. I was trying to make money to go on spring break in college. So I was like, I'm gonna sell these books. Yeah, I think that. No, I didn't sell one in, like, three months.

[B]

I didn't sell not one policy. You could sell books. I couldn't sell insurance.

[A]

I mean, I don't know if I would buy from me. I don't know if I'd buy insurance from you. Right.

[B]

Don't trust this guy. Sounds like a scam, but okay.

[A]

That's amazing that you were insurance adjusters together and private investigators.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Tell me that story. How'd that come about?

[B]

That was a really fun job. Yeah, it was workers. We was investigating workers comp claims. So we'll be out and about just following people to their doctor's appointments to see if they're as injured as they say they are. So I remember this one guy. He would get to the doctor's office, he'd take his cane out the back. Out the back of his car, and he'll walk in to his doctor's appointment, walking with the cane. Then he'll come out, walking with the cane. Then he'd get home, and he'd just come out of his car, and he'd run up the steps to his apartment, and I would film. Now I'm like, this dude's going to jail. This dude's going to jail. And then I would follow him some other place, and he would leave his home, and he was going to his wife's sister's house, and he'd be over, like, two or three hours, and then he would come out, and I would see him kiss his wife's sister and then go back home to his wife. I was like, he's definitely a Democrat. Definitely. He definitely was a damn Bill Clinton. That was in Los Angeles. Yeah. When I lived in San Francisco, I had a claim very similar to that. In San Francisco, you see crazy stuff.

[A]

All you were trying to do is figure out if he's cheating on workman's comp. And then you find out all kinds of other things.

[B]

Just you see all these horrible, crazy things. I'm like, I feel bad. I want to go knock on the door, hey, this your husband? I got him on set. I wanted to do that, but it wasn't part of my job description.

[A]

That's fascinating though it sounds, I hope this doesn't come across bad. But as sick as it sounds to have to Witness all that. It's probably really interesting. It is fascinating to see what people are doing. But then again, it probably makes you look at the rest of the world like you're a cheater, you're a liar, you're a thief.

[B]

Yeah. You definitely second guess your wife. Cause everybody, including your wife. I mean, everybody. Everybody.

[A]

What do you mean everybody?

[B]

Like everybody? Like everybody. Not everybody, Kelly. Thank you. Well, almost everybody. Every now and then you run into an angel, but the rest of them were sinners. It's crazy.

[A]

How did you become private investigators?

[B]

Well, we was watching a TV show, right? I said, I want to be a private investigator. We was in retail doing investigations, and we wanted to try private investigations.

[A]

So the number of jobs and I'll just call it careers you've had is insane.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And this is all after you were in the Marines?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How long were you in The Marine Corps?

[B]

Four years. 94 to 98.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. The job sucked because I joined for the wrong reasons.

[A]

Okay. That's what I was gonna say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why did you join the uniform.

[B]

Uniform?

[A]

Women. See, you're going in the Marine Corps to find women.

[B]

That's what the recruiter said.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Come on. I'm 17, 18. I'm dumb as a box of rock. He saw me a mile away. Oh, I know what he wants. He wants some women. Yeah.

[A]

And the Marines and the uniform.

[B]

The uniform was like the dress blues. Yeah. And then the traveling. Yeah. And I think we saw a bunch of movies when was in high school on hbo, of guys in the military going abroad, like in Japan, and it looked fun.

[A]

It's all glamorous and.

[B]

It's all glamorous. What was that movie? You want some long time action? What was that movie? Full military. Yeah, full military. Jack, we saw this, man, I want to go to Japan. I was in that long time. So that's why we joined. Yeah. I wanted to travel and hook up with Asian chicks.

[A]

Shut up. Shut up. Did you?

[B]

No, I didn't get no. Long time.

[A]

I didn't go to Japan.

[B]

I put on my dream sheet. I wanted to go to Japan. Okinawa, Japan. That's where I wanted to go. They sent me to San Diego.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I went to Canada.

[A]

That's not bad.

[B]

Yeah. Got some me. You went there? Got me some Mexican action.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

That's where I met my wife. Yeah.

[A]

Is your wife Mexican?

[B]

Yes, Mexican.

[A]

They both are.

[B]

Yeah. My wife's from Mexico City. His wife is from Guadalajara. Jalisco. Jalisco.

[A]

You were. Wait, you were stationed not at the Same place?

[B]

No, I was in San Diego. He was in Tustin, which is about, what, two hours ago? Mcas. Tustin. It's an old airway.

[A]

I heard of that.

[B]

Yeah, they closed down when Bush was in. They closed down my base, moved to El Toro. Then from El Toro, they moved to San Diego. Miramar. But I was already out. Miramar.

[A]

Top Gun.

[B]

We could still stay together on the weekends, you know, but was that the.

[A]

First time you were separated?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How was that?

[B]

Yeah, that sucked. Yeah. Every opportunity I got, I used to drive up there to San Diego.

[A]

You knew going in, the chances of separation were high, right?

[B]

Yeah. You know what? But our recruiter said y' all probably gonna be together. Cause y' all twins and y' all put on the dream sheet. Y' all want to go to this wedding. He was just lying.

[A]

Yeah. And you're gonna get a bunch of women.

[B]

He already got me on the woman, so I wasn't thinking straight. We weren't even thinking about that, actually. Yeah. I thought we was just gonna have jobs together. I hadn't even thought it through. I was just thinking about the women in uniform and the crowd. I just thought we always been together. And then when we got our orders, I was like, oh, man, we're split up. That's when it finally dawned on us.

[A]

What was that? Like?

[B]

It was like three hour drive. I mean, what's. We was resilient or whatever, but it was. It kind of sucked that we were not together anymore. Because our whole lives, we've always been together.

[A]

Were you 18?

[B]

Yeah. 18, 19.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, what were those first couple days, weeks, months? Like, when you have literally done everything in your life together since before you were born.

[B]

I remember he said, boot camp. And I bumped him. Bumped into him in the restroom. He said, man, this shit fucking sucks. I'm thinking about trying to get kicked out of here. I said, no, man, you're gonna let everybody down at home and it's gonna be embarrassing.

[A]

Do not get emotional.

[B]

I didn't wanna. Like I said, I don't care about them booths. I ain't doing the next four years here. They recruit a lot. To us, it was like. But we made it through. I mean, a lot of recruits went through that. They second guess.

[A]

Everything they did, they regret at first. Because they just get you in and it's. Listen, I look at Air Force, that's a lot softer, frankly, than they are.

[B]

You should have joined the Air Force.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. Cause you're soft? Is that what you're saying?

[B]

Yeah. Cause I'm soft.

[A]

No, but the Marine Corps is another level.

[B]

Yeah. Right. So it's another level of stupidity. That's what it is. Because a lot of people in Marines, they actually get denied by Army Air Force. As fast as. I wasn't one of those. I actually. It was my decision to go to Marines. I could have went to any branch. But what sucked about the Marines was our recruiter told us we was going to be MPs. I wanted to be a cop. Yeah.

[A]

Military police officers.

[B]

And I got there, and I wasn't a cop. I was open contract, everything that recruiting, every single thing.

[A]

Did you track him down? You should have gone back to five.

[B]

I went back home on leave. I went to recruiting stage. I was going to kill everybody in there. And the whole office is boarded up. They moved. Yeah. I remember his last name. It was Sergeant Pewitt. Pewitt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Sergeant Pewitt. Yeah.

[A]

You should. You should track him down. The private investigators you later became.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad he wasn't there because I went to school.

[A]

You'd be in jail.

[B]

Yeah. I was supposed to be an mp. I worked in a mess hall with cooks. Yeah. I was a truck driver. And those trucks, half the time, they didn't even stop when you push on the brakes. Those trucks. Those trucks were death traps.

[A]

Oh, my. Oh, my goodness.

[B]

It was horrible.

[A]

So you were never together during your four years?

[B]

Nope, just on the weekends. I would travel. He'd travel and come see me, so. But on the weekends, we was always together.

[A]

So as tough as it was, there had to be some good to come from that.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Taught me a lot of discipline. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, from being separated.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I learned to live. I can live without him for five or six days.

[A]

That Max. Yeah, max.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I wonder if you ever. I mean, to have that bond tested. That's not what you.

[B]

Like.

[A]

You did that together, assuming you'd be together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know? So then, I don't know, was there more of an appreciation after, like, for each other after, when you were able to.

[B]

Oh, definitely. Definitely.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. Okay, so tell me the other reason why you decided to join the Marines.

[B]

Basically, just for women. Yeah.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Well, at the time, all the young women. The brain of a young male from Martinsville. Fatigue is a dark place. Well, you forget, all of our friends were going to jail. They would get locked up for selling drugs. Nobody was doing anything with their lives. So we had an older brother that was in the Army. So I was like, man, we gotta get the hell out of here. Cause there's nothing here. So that's. That's one of the reasons why we left too. Cause all our friends were going to jail. Every last one of them. Yeah. I wish I could go back in time. I wish I would have. I would. Did better. Cause I was, what, in the military? Yeah. If I had a time machine, if I had a damn flux capacitor. A flux capacitor in the DeLorean, like back in the future. I would do so many things different. Everybody would. So many. Yeah.

[A]

But you wouldn't be here today if those things had been different, don't you think?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like this is what I've said so much in my life recently. That's true. Where every single thing leading to today had to happen that way. You know, maybe. Yeah. If you had done better, you would have stayed and you would have been a career military person. You wouldn't have been creators. You definitely wouldn't have been stationed together.

[B]

Might have been some cop that got fired for beating up somebody, probably.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But that created it for you. I remember when we met last year on your show and Martinsville. First of all, I think of Martinsville, Virginia, and I think nascar. Yeah, right. Everybody thinks, where's Martinsville? I'm like, that is in Virginia. And that is country. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, it's country.

[A]

But you're talking about how tough of an upbringing it was. It sounds like with so many of your friends going to jail. Describe your childhood.

[B]

Like a lot of them, none of them had fathers. None of them. I didn't recognize it because, you know, I was young, but none of them had fathers. We lost our father when we was 14 too. So actually he passed away on our 14th birthday. So, yeah, it was like. It was very, very poor.

[A]

How did he die?

[B]

It's a work related injury. He worked in Fieldcrest. It's like a Toltec text steel textile meal. And he caught some. He used to breathe in a lot of cotton and it ruined his lungs. He died from the same disease a lot of coal miners died from. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

On your 14th birthday.

[B]

Yeah. And what's crazy, my mom died 20 years later, the day before my birthday. It's like crazy. It's like they're with us.

[A]

You're crazy.

[B]

Yep, I am.

[A]

You're like, yes, that's been proven. But how was 14 year old babies? Do you deal with that?

[B]

Well, when he died, it was like a relief because he was suffering.

[A]

You watched him suffer.

[B]

Everybody was just glad when it was.

[A]

Over because he was pain free.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were you able to say as a 14 year old, you know what you wanted to say? Were you able to say goodbye? Were you able to even come up with the words to. Nah.

[B]

It's like it's so traumatizing. You don't know what to say.

[A]

And with mom, how did mom handle that? Because then she had.

[B]

Well, it was rough on, on everybody but. But we was able to make, you know, get through it. My sister, my older brother, it was just, it was like very difficult.

[A]

Do you think that brought you two together more?

[B]

No, we was always together. Always? Yeah, always. We were some weird ass kids. We'd going through high school. Like we had friends, but there was more like acquaintances you would call them. I really didn't have any friends. It was just me and him the whole time. And we was like pretty much loners. Yeah. We didn't really hang out with other people.

[A]

You've been there your whole lives? Born and raised there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you didn't have friends?

[B]

I had friends. I had good, good, but not good, good friends. Yeah, they would stab you in the. I don't think they would stab you in the back. I don't know. They was jealous. I was too good looking.

[A]

I can see it. I can see it. You were really too good looking. He wasn't just you.

[B]

Well, compared to the other niggas, he was still good looking. Man, you was nuts. No, it's just we've been each other's best friends. We never really friends. It was just always. Yeah. I mean, imagine if you had a twin and you like each other's best friend. Like you don't really need anybody else. You know what I mean? We already relied on each other. And it's weird, like when I see other identical twins and they like hate each other, they don't even talk to each other. It's like a competition. I'm like, that's weird. Really weird.

[A]

I can't imagine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

What was it like for your older sister and brother? Because they don't have that automatic bond.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I guess they just like everybody else. Yeah. Just found on that way on their own.

[A]

Do you think there was ever any envy there from them? Because.

[B]

No, like they always just. I think they really liked having twin brothers. Everybody just. They wouldn't even call us by name. Everybody called us the twins. Wherever we went, it's always been the twins.

[A]

What's your relationship like now with them?

[B]

It was great. It's great. My brother actually introduced me to republicanism. I thought he was an Uncle Tom, coon sellout. But he put that bug in my ear. Yeah, he's retired Army.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Yeah, he did. I think 20 or a little bit over 20 years. Yeah, he retired.

[A]

So he's how much older?

[B]

About 10 years.

[A]

Okay, so he. So he's an adult when your dad passed away?

[B]

Oh, yeah. He was in military. He was in the Army. He was in South Korea. He was getting some. Long time.

[A]

Actually, I was gonna say he's in Asia. That's why you wanted to go. Your big brother's like, hey, listen, this is where you guys enjoy.

[B]

You went to Korea for like 10 tours. He loved that. Long time.

[A]

So stupid. But did he. Was he the one that pushed you guys towards the military?

[B]

Well, I seen he was having success with it, and he got out of Martinsville, Virginia, and I was like, we had to do something that was constructive. He warned us not to join the Marines. He wanted us to join the Air Force. I was like, man, have you seen the uniforms? Yeah, those uniforms are whack. I want them dressed blues. I want to get some of that longtime action. Yeah. He tried to. He tried to convince us. He tried to encourage us not to go to the. I remember I was 18, 19. I called him from the mess hall, like 4 o' clock in the morning. He was in South Korea. And I was crying just like, man, how do I get out of here? I was literally crying on the phone. It sucked. Yeah. Because it was like a culture shock for me. Yeah. You know, being from the Southeast. And then you got some crazy white man screaming at you. 24 with a 10,000 mile stair. Yeah. It was like. And then I lost my father such a young age. I had a real problem with authority. So I think that had a lot to do with it. So I didn't like people telling me what to do.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did it change when your dad died? Were you more okay with that authority beforehand? And then that was a real turning point.

[B]

Well, not teenage years. We was raised by a mom. Yeah. And we really didn't have a father figure for us. Yeah. I remember him, though, vividly, because he worked hard. Two jobs. Yeah. Yeah. So he died when I was 14. So my mom raised us in those, like, formative years as you become a man. And we really didn't have that father figure. Yeah. So I think it just came from a lack of maturity. Yeah. You know, but the Marine Corps, going to the Marine Corps, I don't even know what I was thinking about women and traveling. I wasn't really thinking. Yeah, you Know, I was thinking, like, just like a kid. But I ran into a lot of men that gave me that father figure and gave me advice on how to be a man. And I think it really sent me, both of us, in the right direction as men.

[A]

What was the advice?

[B]

Just being accountable. Just being responsible. Accountable to your actions.

[A]

Was this from a black male role model?

[B]

That was a white dude. Yeah.

[A]

In Martinsville.

[B]

No, when I was in the Marine Corps.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry. It was.

[B]

Yeah, in the Marine Corps. I mean, I'm sure there was some great black men around, but I didn't bump into it. I think all the father figures I had in my life growing up, it's always been white men. Yeah. We had that black pastor, remember? Yeah. We didn't take him seriously.

[A]

We didn't listen.

[B]

We went to the high school. Cause me and Kevin, we wasn't doing so good in school. And what's crazy, they had a mentor who was a black pastor. Said, you don't have a father. I remember my teacher said you were at risk. Youth. He said, so we're gonna have you see this pastor once a week on, like, Tuesday. As a black pastor. Remember that? Yeah. He would come to our track and field competitions. He would come to us, like, once a week. He was just. And I guess back then, I didn't realize it, but the school realized that we was at risk. Youth being black and young and no father and poor. They wanted to put a male role model in front of us, which helped us a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was black. He was okay. But I remember his name. I still remember him. Pastor Hawkins. He took us to a lot of historical black colleges. Yeah. He was one. One guy that was. Other than being a white person. Yeah. But you know what? I was so naive and young and immature. I never thanked him for any of that. Yeah.

[A]

Do you know if he's still around?

[B]

I doubt it. Yeah. I think he was in his 40s or 50s when I was 18.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So he's probably long gone.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I never even thanked him. Yeah. And you know what's weird? I never even thought about thanking him until I was in my 30s. He just kind of popped up. Yeah. Never did thank him. It's just. I had a one night. I still remember this one night. Me and Keith was, at the time, was very immature. So at the time, we got an award. Hey, Keith, let me tell this story. You always cut me off. You always, like, steal myself? No, I'm too slow with your storytelling. But let me paint the picture. It was that movie Eddie Murphy Coming to America. Coming to America.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I thought that movie was. You know, everybody thought that movie was very funny.

[A]

Hysterical.

[B]

So you remember the scene when that dude, Sexual child comes out and he sings this particular song? Yeah. Right. So me and Keefe is at this award ceremony with this guy. Yeah. This. With the black pastor. And they're giving us an award. Right, Right. The award was total bullshit. He was just to make us feel good. It was total bullshit. It was just to give us hope, to inspire us. They gave me a damn award for effort. I was like, this is so embarrassing. Did he think I'm that much of an idiot? I don't realize what's going on. So it's funny. We going getting the award, and they start singing the same song. As in Coming to America. Yeah. So me and my brother's dying laughing. So we trying to hold it. Yeah. Yeah, we trying to hold it in. I'm like, my eyes are watering. My stomach's hurting. I was like, fuck it. I just started laughing. I didn't give a fuck. Cause if I didn't let that, I would have probably died right there. I was laughing so hard. He landed on a baby blue suit. No, he had a curly kitten, everything.

[A]

No, he didn't.

[B]

It was such a setup. So we were laughing, and I remember Pastor Hawkins like, what is wrong with you guys? Y' all need to grow up.

[A]

He had his soul glow.

[B]

Yeah. He was so embarrassed. And we embarrassed him.

[A]

My gosh.

[B]

Because he had put this award ceremony. It was all him. Yeah.

[A]

He was trying, right?

[B]

He was a very good man. But I was a piece of shit.

[A]

But you fell over laughing.

[B]

I couldn't help it. I told him, I said, man, did you see the movie Coming to America? He would make all sense to you if you just go watch that movie.

[A]

I hope you didn't have to give a speech.

[B]

No. There's nowhere in hell I could have gave a speech that night.

[A]

Well, A for effort, Kevin.

[B]

Yeah. I still remember that night like it was yesterday. Yeah. That's like, one of my best moments of my entire life. I've never laughed so hard in my life.

[A]

For the fake award.

[B]

Yeah. And you know, the things that's the most funniest is the things you shouldn't laugh at. And in that particular scenario, it was like, probably 100 people there. Yeah. And I think it was, like, in front of the black. It was like, because we were black. It was a black community. It was like black people trying to uplift each other. And then here's These Uncle Tom sellout.

[A]

You weren't a sellout at that point. Not. That's later.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So when you, when you look at that upbringing and listen, this is an issue throughout the black community.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Before Bill Cosby was exposed for who he is, I remember watching him give speeches and going to colleges and universities and talking about the facts, the numbers that, you know, 15, 20 years ago, 72% of black kids are born out of wedlock without a father in the home.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can have your opinions on the reasons why, but we know what happens because of that. And it's proof that how detrimental it is to not have a father.

[B]

It rings not only true in the black community, regardless of what demographic you come from.

[A]

Without a father, without a father, you're.

[B]

Going to end up.

[A]

And for the purpose of this conversation, the fact that where you were from, it was prevalent and so many of these kids did not have a father, in particular black kids. Why do you think it has continued to be an issue in the black community?

[B]

Just a vicious cycle. Like, I made it an effort, you know, I concentrate, make sure I'm in my kids life, make sure I'm there for all my kids. Other than the fact that my daughter, I got married young, I went on a hiatus from talking to her for quite some time because it was just so uncomfortable, you know, being separated from your daughter and you went through a divorce. It was just. I just wasn't ready to handle that. And I've actually rekindled with her, you know, several phone calls. Dr. I've been meaning to get her to come out and see her brothers and her sisters. But, yeah, I started to notice that after when we had that pastor introduced to us to help, you know, us overcome without having a father in our families. You know, I wanted to make sure because it was. It's so obvious that nobody's willing to call it out. You have to. That's just a destructive cycle. That's. It only stops when black men be accountable for the families they bring into this world. Until that happens, you're not going to be able to fix that. Yeah, I don't even think it's fixable at this point. It's just like there's accountability in the black community. When you try to give people advice or tell people they need to hold themselves accountable, they. They come at you like, like you're attacking the black community. Yes, I'm like, no, I'm just giving you advice. This is so detrimental to you, your kids. If you have kids out of Wedlock and the man's not around. And I think men, black men can. If black men stood up and acknowledged this, it would stop. Because I think the man is the head of the household anyway. Yeah. But I think in the black community, I hate the men. I just think that, I think it's just, that's our culture. Anybody growing up with a father is not a culture within the black community.

[A]

It's not, it's acceptable that he's not around.

[B]

We embrace the wrong things in the black community. As a community, we embrace the wrong things. Why? I don't know. I think it's genetic. I just think. I've been reading about this study. It's called epigenetics. Have you heard of that?

[A]

I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is.

[B]

Yeah. It's just, it's all the trauma your parents go through is actually passed down to you genetically. Yeah. What's that quote? You are your. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. That rings so true. Yeah. All your trauma your parents went through, it's passed down to you. Yeah.

[A]

Because that's what you've been shown.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see one way, even though you might, you know, that's the way that you've been brought up or you're living, even though you hear about it over here, but this is all that you are able to witness and that's what you're living. So it almost seems like it's untouchable to some.

[B]

In black culture, you're racing not to be white, not to act, not to act white, not to gay white. Or they call you whitewashed. Like being white. It's a horrible thing in the black.

[A]

Community to act white. Meaning to not have kids out of wedlock.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To be present as a father. Is that what like.

[B]

Yeah, like I heard the statement, you act white. Well, what is acting black?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But they don't call out all the detrimental behaviors you see from people who act black.

[A]

When you, when you push back and ask that question in reverse. Well, what, what is acting black?

[B]

Yeah. That's when they get violent.

[A]

They don't have an answer.

[B]

They don't, they don't. They attack you either verbally or physically. But I've seen debates where you, you see conservatives, Republicans nowadays, I would say Democrats is like pretty straight, moderate. And when you ever see them talking to a person that's black and liberal, it's like, it's like talking to a 14 year old. It's like they, they never mature past age 14. Like, look at politically. Yeah, Politically, they don't even behave like adults. Like, perfect example, look at that one Congresswoman in Texas, Jasmine Crockett.

[A]

Jasmine Crockett.

[B]

The way she talks about it sounds like the black girls I grew up when I was like 12, 13 years old is ratchet and ghetto. But the black community, they don't call it out. They champion her behavior. Yeah. They embrace it.

[A]

Did you see what Charlemagne, the gods, said the other day? He said she is the best voice, the best representative in the Democratic Party, and they are not using her like they should. She basically is the face that we should be promoting and uplifting and speaking for us. And I thought that is. He's a smart guy. And for him to say that, yeah, it makes zero sense.

[B]

He says smart things from time to time, but I think he's an idiot for the most part. For you to come out and say that as a man, about Jasmine Crockett. Yeah, she's absolute worst. Typical black. If that's the typical attitude a black woman has, Black women, that would destroy black women as a community. You know what the sad thing is? They don't even realize it. I don't think they can see it. That's why I think they're a lost cause.

[A]

When you say they, who is a lost cause?

[B]

Black people as a whole. Not every black person, but majority of us, they think that way. You know what helped us a lot? You can take a magnifying glass and show them. They won't be able to say this, like, see this?

[A]

I think they see it. It's a refusal to acknowledge it. Because when you acknowledge something, you have to do something about it. And it's really hard to then do something about it because it's what. It's uncomfortable. Uncomfortable conversations and looking in the mirror and having accountability.

[B]

I used to think that way, but that's being optimistic. You know what helped us? I don't think they even see it. You know what helped us when we grew up? We didn't grow up in a black community. We grew up in a poor white community. And I think my mom and dad did that by design. Because when we grew up in Marsville, I would say 80% of the black people lived on the west side of town. And it was also where all the crime was at. When we moved, we grew up when we was about five or six years old. We lived in Leatherwood, Virginia, but then we moved to Martinsville, Virginia, on the white side of town. And we was exposed to white people. We had white friends we didn't just have black friends. Everything wasn't just black culture. Black this. Yeah. We was able to see both sides. And my dad, age. My dad was one of the whitest black men on this planet. Yeah, he used to listen to bluegrass. He used to listen to bluegrass. Country music with the banjos and shit. Yeah, yeah, he loved that. He loved nascar. He loved nascar. He was really pale. He had blue eyes. His hair was.

[A]

That's where you get it.

[B]

He had, like, dog for her. Yeah. Epigenetics. That shit was downloaded from my father to me. Yeah. So. But we was able to see both sides. And I remember at a young age, like 9, 10 years old, I remember I was on the black side of town, and it was the first time I ever had a gun put to my face, you know? And at that early age, I was like, man, I don't even like coming over here. I rather stay over here and be called the N word than to go over here, which is weird. I couldn't put a. We couldn't. I didn't. I noticed when I was in a black community, I just didn't felt right, but I didn't know what it was. Well, you can't really call that a black man being racist. Just I noticed the cultures between black and white. Even you take the neighborhood I lived in, a lot of those people were like, racist. But the culture between whites and blacks, it's like, it's such a stark difference. It gave me an opportunity to see things from both sides. And then my father being as white as he was, and then my mom, she was like, you know, the typical black woman. She loved Democrats. That's all she talked about, was Bill Clinton. She loved us. Bill Clinton. She loved Obama. Yeah. But unfortunately, I lost my dad at an early age, but a lot of his politics and the things that align with him, I was able to get that from his brother, who was still living. His youngest brother. And my cousin told me the craziest shit about his father because I heard these same things from my mother about our father. About our father. I sat down with my cousin. He said, man, that is the most racist black man I've ever seen in my life. His dad. His dad. Yeah. But his dad and my dad were, you know, of course, brothers. They're first cousin. That's my first cousin. And they got along so good. Yeah, but they look like Mexicans. Like my dad and my other. They was like, they're black, but they're, like biracial. They look more Mexican than anything. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Do you. Do you think it was different for you and you felt different when you were on the black side of the tracks because of how light skinned you are with the light eyes?

[B]

Well, they would call that out. They would say we were not black. He said, black people don't have green blue eyes. They would say that. I remember I was in boot camp and we got into this argument, this black recruiter. I said, so what are you? And I was like, I'm black. He said, no, you're not. And then there was this white recruit beside me. He said, yes, he is. Look at him. Look at his hair. So they was pickering. Back and forth. He said, but black people don't have blue eyes or whatever. And then I took my shirt off and he said, look, he's sunburned. Cause my whole back was red. I was impressed. He said, black people don't turn red in the sun. You know what's funny? My whole life, black people never accepted me. They never said I was black. Never. Right. As soon as I come out as Republican. Oh, you're a sellout. Oh, it's now all of a sudden, I'm black. Yeah.

[A]

Then all of a sudden, Mm. When people say black people can't be racist.

[B]

Oh, black people can be some vile, disgusting racist. Yeah. I think black people can be more racist than whites, tell you the truth.

[A]

You felt it. You guys have felt it. And especially, I think it's interesting because of your upbringing where you were basically living in both communities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the fact that you said you'd rather stay with the racist white people who called you the N word than black people. Because of the violence.

[B]

Because of violence. I met my mom about 12, 13 years old. We'd always play basketball on the weekends on the white side of town. And my friend.

[A]

So you could win, right?

[B]

Well, the black kids would come over. The good black kids would come over and they would just whoop our ass anyway. But anyway, I remember my friend says, hey, man, let's go in the West End. Let's play over there. There's more hoops. There's more players, right? I was like, I want to go over there. He's like, why you never want to go over there? I said, there's too many black people over there for me. He didn't say that. He said it was too many niggers over there. And my black friends started dying laughing. They thought it was the funniest thing they ever heard. I said, no, man, I got guns pulled on me over there. I said, I don't Want to go over there? I got a gun put on by a player on our basketball team.

[A]

Why?

[B]

You needed lunch money, I guess, but he took my lunch money. He put a gun on me right after basketball practice.

[A]

How old were you?

[B]

I think I was like 12. 12.

[A]

Oh my gosh, you guys.

[B]

I used to see girls, 13, 14 year olds, black girls, pregnant. So I was like, I was. That's why I was so leery of, you know, going over there. Because it was just. Everything I saw there was just a horrible experience.

[A]

You said earlier that you don't think it's fixable in the black community.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Cause we give people way too much credit. We are who we are.

[A]

You don't think people can change?

[B]

Yeah, people can change. People can change, but if they have the capacity. But I don't think a lot of people. I think we give people too much credit. A lot of people don't have capacity to change. I think the reason why black people don't acknowledge it because if they acknowledge it, then they'll be called act trying to be white. That's why.

[A]

Well, we've all received that many times before just by having the conversation. Like I know I can predict my comments already when I post this show and clips of it. And there she goes again. The only time she talks about black people is in a bad capacity, which of course is not true.

[B]

Right, but you're trying to show them there's a different way to live in life. You just giving them constructive criticism. The black community has room for improvement and the whole world knows that is for some reason black people don't see it or acknowledge it. It's like black people have. I don't think they realize the negative connotation that comes to people's mind when you think of the black community. I don't think they even realize it. We're the poorest demographic in the country. We make up like 40% of the crime, but we're only 13% of the population. They don't. They think when people put those statistics in front of them, that's just lies. It's white supremacy. They don't, they don't get it. They don't know really how bad the black community is doing as a whole. They don't even realize it. And I think because they don't want to or they want to face up the reality that the reason why you ain't amount to anything because you need to take a long, hard looking man, they don't want to put that burden on them. They'd Rather put it on a. The white people, the white man.

[A]

It's easier.

[B]

Yeah, it makes them feel better about themselves.

[A]

Sure. And these conversations though, that's why I continue to try to have them. Even though we know what comes with it. If you don't have the conversation, then there's truly no hope. And by the way, that applies to any community because every community has issues for sure.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But ours is we suck the most. I didn't say that.

[B]

Yeah, I just saw this story. We do. I mean everybody's got a, a certain demographic of their race. That sucks. It's just ours are much more prevalent when you compare it to other demographics. Yeah, I saw this story of this 13 year old girl went to law school and she finished law school at 17 and she's Asian and her brother finished law school when he was 17. They set like records. Like when people think of the Asian community and everybody has an idea of what that looks like and then when you compare that to the black community, I get it, I can see it. But the black community doesn't see that, that stark difference between different demographics. They don't just have a very pessimistic outlook on life. Because if this country is systemically racist against blacks, why is it affecting Latinos and even Nigerians and Asians and other brown. Like I find an amazing statistic. The top 5 earners in America is not even white. They're brown people. But for some reason black people haven't amount to much because the color of the skin, it just, it doesn't add up. Like if you, the immigrants from Nigeria do way better. Yeah. Nigerian Americans are like in, I think they're the top two or three earners in the country, but they blow away black Americans.

[A]

What, what can we do? Like we, those of us with platforms. And it isn't just because of the color of our skin. I mean anyone who truly cares, like what can we do? Because if you talk about it and you say, hey, you know, pull them up by the bootstraps and we can do better than you're racist just by suggesting that. But I really am asking that genuinely.

[B]

Yeah, I think, unfortunately, I think us being labeled as Republicans, it's nothing we can do or say because anything that come out of our mouth, it's already been tarnished about how they see us. Yeah, but if any change is going to happen within the black community, it has to come from the left, has to come from Democrats. Well, our message is getting out to some black people. It is.

[A]

Well, you look at the numbers, the Voting numbers from a year ago in the presidential election. And I mean, it's incredible. The number of black people that voted Republican more than any time in the last half century.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's progress. And by the way, I don't know what you think about this. I've talked about it several times. But I do think a major turning point was when Barack Obama went into Pittsburgh and called out black men for not supporting Kamala. So, again, we're doing this based on race and skin color. But I've talked to many black people who are like, what was that?

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

And where have you been? You know, I mean, actually, I believe we got more divided during his eight years in office. And actually, if you continue, because he's been partially running the country for the last five years anyway. And so when you point like that at people, like, you're telling me now to vote for someone that I don't believe has the qualifications or at least the best policies to run the country, but I need to not care about that. Because we have the same skin color.

[B]

Yeah. Because black community is a monolith. Yeah. And it resonates with them. Yeah. Very tribalistic blacks. Yeah. 96% of black women voted for Kamala. Yeah. Just because 96% think she's black. Now, Trump is a bad person. I have aunts that look like her, but they're biracial. Right. They got white and black in them. But Kamala Harris is black. She's a biracial Indian woman. Yeah. That's what she is.

[A]

But at the end of the day, it should not matter if you're green if you can run this country. I would have voted for her if I thought that she could have run the country better than Donald Trump. But I think we all knew that was not. I mean, America spoke at that moment.

[B]

But Democrats know how powerful that race card is, especially in the black community. It, like, hypnotizes blacks.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Yeah. She is so incompetent. Did you see that video she did recently? She's on a book tour. She said the voting age should be dropped to 16. That is. That is. You don't need. You go back to when I was 16. You don't need me voting.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, that's dangerous.

[A]

But I also saw a video of Sunny Hostin. Hostin. Whatever. From the View. Who is she? Puerto Rican, I think.

[B]

I think so. Yeah.

[A]

Who was trying desperately and failed miserably at explaining why voter ID laws are racist and how unfair it is because people of color, you know, they don't have a way always to get there, to get to the dmv, to get a driver's license when you need a driver's license to do what? To buy alcohol. And as one of the influencers that I saw online said, well, black people are pretty good at that. So you figure out how to get your ID to go to the liquor store. I mean, it was a funny take on what she was saying that I actually think is so insulting to people of color to say they didn't call it out. Smart enough to be able to know that we have to have an id.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like what is that?

[B]

Nobody called her out from the left. Don't even call her out. You can't function in society without I D. Correct. You can't get SNAP benefits.

[A]

You can't do it. You can't do anything. You can't get snap benefit. Exactly. I mean, but I guess I feel I had hope that after they kind of got crushed in that election a year ago that it would soften realizing that when you pit people against each other, that kind of ugliness, it actually doesn't work. And people went the opposite direction. They voted for a man that they don't even like because of the race baiting that was going on on the left.

[B]

You know what's crazy? What Trump got the most votes from from blacks from than any Republican.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even with that said, black people still vote on a clip of 90% for Democrat. That's what's so.

[A]

So that's why you say there's no hope when we come full circle on this conversation.

[B]

No. As far left as the Democrats have went, they don't even know what a woman is. Black people still ran to the polls and voted the Democrat Party. I think a lot of the problems of the black communities because of the Democrat party, they destroyed the black community. If they were links, if they take their clothes out of black people and actually try to help them and empower.

[A]

Instead of maintaining Democrats can make a.

[B]

Huge difference in black community. But they won't do it because there's a huge voting block for them.

[A]

It's massive. It's just like immigration. It's just like why the borders were wide open. But I do feel feel you can look at white women too. And the white liberal woman.

[B]

Well, there's a reason why he didn't let women vote for a long time. Every day when women vote, they prove our founding fathers right.

[A]

So there was an incredible.

[B]

White women, they are crazy.

[A]

There was an article I saw recently about feminization and how the feminization of the world. But focusing on this country has really been a downfall in many ways. And you can look at it, you can hear the initial headline and go, oh, my God, what is this about? And these people are crazy. And then there are. There are numbers that are hard to argue with, especially when it comes to women and emotion. And we are emotional beings, more so than you. So we lead with that. Whether it is with how we lead, if we're leading a company, as, you know, as a parent, and how you vote and when you play on emotions versus facts, numbers, statistics, science. Women are gonna go over here 99% of the time. It's just how it is. And by the way, I love that about us. Yeah, we have. You don't. That's why we are only able to have babies, not men. Despite what you all think. You can't.

[B]

Well, if I'm having baby, that baby coming out crazy.

[A]

That's true. Then you know what? You would not be able to handle the pain, former Marine. You would not be able to handle that pain. That's real.

[B]

I'm pretty sure you're right. I don't think I'm gonna be able to dilate to 10 millimeters or whatever it is. Man, shut up. That's a lot of bone cracking right there.

[A]

It's centimeters.

[B]

Oh, it's centimeters.

[A]

So that's even worse.

[B]

Oh, millimeters. You're, like, gaped wide the hell over.

[A]

I cannot. We're gonna do an anatomy lesson here when we're done, guys.

[B]

Centimeters.

[A]

But that's the thing. It's like.

[B]

No.

[A]

The emotions, I think, is what gets us in trouble. And when you play on the emotions of the black community.

[B]

Yeah. I think that's why a lot of women say it's okay for a man to put on a dress and go in a women's restroom because they're thinking with their heart.

[A]

They don't have feelings either. Because maybe they just came out of the closet and made me feel good.

[B]

Makes me feel good. Yeah.

[A]

But in the meantime. But in the meantime, you are actually doing so much worse by these women and girls who you say you protect. We are. Listen, I say that in the business sense as well, because my 30 years in network television, you know, as a sportscaster, my mentors were all men. All of them. They're the ones that lifted me up and gave me constructive feedback to be better, not women. You know, as soon as you turned your back, the stab wounds are deep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In that way. And it makes me sad. And I've Always said. And I've been able to speak to younger women or college students, like, you know, you guys complain about. You guys. You ladies complain about the glass ceiling and how men hold us back. We're holding ourselves back. First of all, look in the mirror first before we try to go after the men. Because what we do to each other. And again, it goes back to emotion. Not using common sense, saying, wait a minute, we're all in the C suite right now. We're all at the table. We all have a job. There's room for all of us. But instead, it's.

[B]

You know, I've said this a lot of times. I was like, I know men have did a lot of evil things in history, but I always say this. I think there's a special kind of evil in a woman that I haven't seen in a man. Like, women could be. They can be so vindictive.

[A]

It's sad.

[B]

Yeah. And towards other women.

[A]

Trust me. Yes, I know.

[B]

And I've been in relationship with women. I was like, I can't believe they did that to me. It's like, crap. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. You know, it's like, why would she do that? I did my. I still. It just boggles my mind. It's like, why would she do that? The evil thing? Like, I was in a relationship. I ain't gonna get no names.

[A]

No, really.

[B]

But women have lied to me and said they're pregnant.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. They've claimed that I didn't pay child support.

[A]

They. There's only one.

[B]

One. Well, I'm trying to be ambiguous.

[A]

Well, that's kind of specific, right?

[B]

You sound like a transgender. I'm trying to sound like it's multiple women, but it's. I don't want to give away how many women it is, but I've always. You know, they just do things. That's so callous. I'm like, wow. I just put. I see women differently. And then prior relationships, like breakups, you just start to see women different. You start to see red flags, warning signs. It's just women could be, like, such a turncoat. It's like, I've never seen that in a man. Never.

[A]

I also want to point out that I think with that, I don't think there's enough emphasis put on the fact that that hurts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, as a man, you can be tough and strong and jacked in a marine and all these things.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And that has stayed with you for over 25 years, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that Hurts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Men can be hurt by us.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. It definitely hurts more than any injury I've ever suffered, so.

[A]

But betrayal.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm very leery of women politicians. I mean, there are some exceptions. Like I don't necessarily. Don't think we. It's not right for a woman to be present. But I am very leery of women when it comes to authority because they can be very evil at times. Even more so than a man. You know I'm right. You got all this trauma coming out.

[A]

It's coming out. Epigenetics. Wait, besides your mother, what female has been in an authority position over you?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Am I getting too deep here?

[B]

District managers, managers. Oh, my God. All of them been bitches. I had a. Oh, my God. She promoted me and then treated me like trash. It's like every time I went to her office, it was like, how much can I belittle him today? It's like I've never had this.

[A]

Did you talk to her about it?

[B]

Man, I want to kill that bitch.

[A]

Kevin.

[B]

I would leave out of her office with tears in my eyes. I gotta go. I gotta go. I gotta get out of here or I'm gonna struggle. This black woman. I was in the Marine Corps and he's lucky. You haven't had a female boss. No, I had a black. Oh, yeah. Race has nothing to do with it.

[A]

But.

[B]

But it was a black woman. She was a warrant officer. Yeah. Horrible leader. She showed horrible leadership. She made me feel like. Yeah, just inferior. And then I remember I had a problem and I had to go see the colonel on the base. 75 year old white man. Right. Old school. Old school. Grew up doing Jim Crow and all that. I go to him in San Diego and when I left his office, I felt like a man. Yeah, Just his. The way he handled things, the way he used his words, his leadership. But whenever I came into contact with a woman in authority figure or leadership, it was like they had to prove something interesting that I'm a woman.

[A]

Especially in the Marine Corps. Especially, I think in a military and.

[B]

In the civilian world, my managers. It's always been a horrible experience whenever you give a black woman any type of authority.

[A]

Well, not just a black woman.

[B]

Just a woman. I would say a black woman. No. Cause I got a lot of experience with that. Now, I'm not saying that to be mean, but you've had some horrible experiences other than black women though, huh? Remember? Well, I shouldn't have said her name. Remember, she was white. You're Still a woman. I know. That's what I'm saying. You just. Yeah, but I'm telling you, it's a stark difference between our cultures, black and white. And the experiences I had was the white woman. She was fair. She was brutal. Brutal, but she was fair.

[A]

But then the black woman was brutal.

[B]

Yeah. The white people have been brutal, but they've been fair.

[A]

Like black people deserved it.

[B]

Yeah. And they would show me, help make me better. Black women, they there to belittle and make you feel this small. That's the gist of I got from. We just had bad experiences. We're not trying to say all black women are like, no, I'm not trying to say. Of course not. We just had horrible luck with black women. But I'm very leery of black women.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

With a sex. With an exception of you. Remember, you're amazing woman.

[A]

Remember, I'm only half. So am I accepted?

[B]

Am I enough?

[A]

Black enough?

[B]

Yeah. Well, I've never really.

[A]

What do you ask?

[B]

I don't really consider myself to be black or white.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I'm sure you feel the same way. I really don't because I have white people in my family and black people in my family.

[A]

We talked about this last year. We are all mixed. We are all mixed with something. And now if I'm asked, and you know my story, it is very important for me to say, yes, biracial. Because I am as proud of my white mom as I am of my black dad. And I know a lot of biracial kids who are like, no, I'm only black. And then the poor white mom or white dad, whatever it is.

[B]

That's horrible.

[A]

But that is what is pushed on you by the black community, for sure. And liberals, the Democrats, because they say.

[B]

White people, they actually think white people are evil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they fail to acknowledge that white people freed you and black people, a lot of black people enslaved us, sold us into slavery. That's why I say I'm not too optimistic about black culture because I don't think they can really see the difference, see what's going on.

[A]

What do you two hope by continuing the platform that you have built from scratch? Like, what do you hope that maybe black community, young black men can take from you and your experiences and the way that you express things?

[B]

You definitely don't look at my earlier videos when I was giving relationship advice, but unless you want to laugh. But you know what's wild? Like, I had this problem with my kids, black culture getting a hold on them and influencing them with this garbage I see in the black community. And I'm their dad. Yeah. So I mean, black culture is so strong within the community. It was like, I remember getting into it with my daughter. It was about some movie about this black kid picking up a comb and the cop shot him. And my daughter was crying, man, I'm so scared to go out now. They're killing us. I'm like, you stupid fuck, that's not what's happening. So I get in an argument with your daughter. Yeah, Okay. I said we keep it real at home.

[A]

How old is your daughter, who you said this to?

[B]

Yeah, I didn't say that. I didn't call you to call your daughter. I didn't call her a stupid fuck. I said, you stupid dumbass. And I had to take baby steps with her and show real life scenarios of why these things happen. And over time, she.

[A]

It wasn't because the kid had a comb in his hair.

[B]

No. It was more to the story than that. She doesn't understand that.

[A]

Well, it always is, but with the media and most platforms are only showing you the result instead of what led to it. When the kid was told to get out of his car 12 times and didn't do it, and then resisted, and then, by the way, this does not mean that there aren't scenarios where there has been wrongdoing and there are racist cops, of course. But to teach your daughter, our kids, that cops equal bad and they're killing us, that's criminal.

[B]

Yeah. So I had to, like, just had to teach her from just being an objective human being. I said, take your race out of it. Take all these other things out of it and just look at it based on the facts. You gotta be objective when you look at things. Leave all this other nonsense out. Look at what happened. Stop looking at race all the time. I had a big problem of when I was younger, I would go somewhere and I'd have a bad experience and I would blame it on me being black and they were white. We used to go through that. Yeah. It's like mama used to tell us every day, white people are evil.

[A]

Your mom would say that?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Because she grew up through Jim Crow. She had totally different experiences. Yeah. So I was always had this anxiety when I. Whenever I was in a room with white people.

[A]

So was she still alive when you guys kind of made that political turn?

[B]

No.

[A]

What do you think she would have said?

[B]

She loved Obama. She walked around in that Obama shirt. She had an Obama T shirt she wore every day. But she was really religious when she died. All this transgender stuff, the bathrooms and all that. I know for a fact my mama went for any of that stuff because she was really religious. Right. And she's very proactive. Yeah. The doctor wanted her to abort us because with our family support. So. Yeah. What? Yeah. She had a black doctor, a black man, and she said, you should abort your two children because you. I don't think you'll be able to raise them on your income. Yeah. So. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah. So. But if my mom was definitely living today, she wouldn't be. There's no way in the world she would still be a Democrat. She probably wouldn't vote.

[A]

I would just not vote.

[B]

She'd probably see the tv. So Trump, he's a racist. She wouldn't vote because of the trauma, but she would not be supporting Democrat, the Democrat Party today.

[A]

What do you think she would have thought of her two sons?

[B]

She'd been so glad that we stopped cussing. She used to tell us that all the time. Stop cussing in your YouTube videos. Besides, mom like to see the light of the life that we've been able to provide for ourselves now compared to what we grew up in. Yeah. I think she would, like, have a heart attack. Yeah. If she's seen what we became of her two sons.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to go back about black community and police interactions with blacks, like, some things are just obvious, you know, it should never happen. Like the Sonia Massey incident when she got shot in the home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With the water, obviously. And I see it on both sides. I even see black Republicans can't acknowledge that's wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're former cops. And I've grown a lot when it comes to that, because initially I was like pro cop. It's always cops are right. And I've learned over time, it's like that's. They're not always right, and they do do a lot of bad things. But overwhelmingly, a majority of cops are very good people.

[A]

But it's just like any career field where you're gonna have good and bad.

[B]

Right. So you notice that too, like the Sonya Massey. There's Republicans, like black conservatives, that say the cop was in the right for shooting her with the water. And that's why a lot of times we get a bad name for ourselves as sycophants and Uncle Tom's, because we're not willing to call out. And sometimes that can alienate the people that follow you. But you still gotta stay true to yourself.

[A]

Truth, no matter the situation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Even if it doesn't align with the Republican Conservative Party, things that we believe. And you've got to call it out. And listen, I'll be honest about. I have been honest already about the Epstein files, because all I know is that it was discussed during the campaign.

[B]

Yeah. It was coming out.

[A]

And now all of a sudden it's quiet. And that doesn't mean I don't feel, fully appreciate and support all the good that Donald Trump has done.

[B]

They say some great things. Yeah.

[A]

Like stuff that even. I've even seen Democrats come out and say, wow, he's got a lot of stuff done in the Middle east, et cetera.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That can exist. All the good. And hey, what's up over here?

[B]

Nobody's perfect.

[A]

Correct. But we have to be honest with that. And on that note, all the Democrats who are bitching about it now, you were silent over the four years of Biden, too, when the Epstein files existed. So let's not be hypocritical. And all of a sudden, like, it's all bad.

[B]

Soft political leverage.

[A]

Correct. The point is our job is to be honest no matter what, no matter what narrative we're supposed to be following based on our politics. And that's where I think Republicans and Democrats, you know, are weak at times to not be consistent with that. But I want you. I know you know this. The influence that you have is probably, I mean, more than even you realize, even though I know you follow the numbers. Like, it's. It's amazing. And you are to strong men who happen to be black. But what do you hope when this is all said and done and you say, okay, I'm done. I'm done making all these crazy videos and I'm done, you know, putting myself out there because of the criticism that you take. What do you hope as far as the difference that you will have made, especially with the youth, especially with young men, Young black men.

[B]

Yeah, I just hope. Well, I just hope our message resonates with everybody. Not only black man, white man, Filipino, regardless of what your ethnicity or demographic, that you erase that. I hope it resonates with everybody. Yeah. Hopefully one day black community will open eyes and see what's really going on. They believe that the country is systemically racist. I do think it's systemically racist, but not in the definition that they put it in us. Like, I think there's people actually building a culture and champion a culture that's detrimental to blacks simply because they want you to think and vote a certain way. That's the way I see it. They maintain control to maintain control for them. Yeah. Because if the black community becomes successful, what do you need a Democrat for? You don't even need them at that point. Yeah. Regardless of when you're successful, you don't really need politicians no more. You know, you can actually, you know, you're not like, for me as a Republican, I mean, I would like, at one point, I think I went a little too far right. And when I was younger, I was like, obviously I was like too far left. But now I'm like more in the center. Like what's right? It's not really a label you can put on whether it's Democrat or Republican. It's like, it's just what's, what's the truth and what's. Literally majority of the things that are right is sometimes majority of times I would say is right down the middle. Because when you go too far right or too far left, both of it leads to tyranny. And I found like over our careers, when we start delving into politics, it's like we know why the Democrat party is struggling. It's cause there's no objective thinking. Everybody's pretty much just a sycophant. I see that creeping into Republicanism and Republicans because I can't even criticize Trump without getting attacked. And it's just an honest criticism that everybody, it's obvious and everybody's aware of it. But if you say you either all in or you all are out. And I think we're as a whole society is like this. The middle is just slowly disappearing. You either fall left or fall right. Hopefully our message can bring people from the left and the right together more than what we are now. Because if you go too far right, too far left, it both leads into destruction of our country. I think we need to be more moderate when it comes to pushing policies on Americans. It's just when you look at Fox News, cnn, it's just everybody got an agenda. Only agenda should be to the truth.

[A]

And to what's best for this country. To not forget who came before us. I mean, you have that military background as well, to not take it for granted. I feel like a lot of people do, right?

[B]

They do. They really do.

[A]

What are you most proud of that you guys have accomplished?

[B]

Just financial security for me and my family and for my son's future. Because when I grew up, we had absolutely nothing. We went days without eating. We didn't have food. So to provide the living I'd do for my kids, that's the best thing I could ever, you know, have imagined for my kids because I didn't have nothing this close. I remember we didn't have food. And there was this apple tree down the street. Here we go. We had to climb this fence and trespass. We would climb that tree. No ladder. Cause it's too poor to buy a damn ladder and climb this tree. Risk life and lamb to pick some damn apples off his tree so my mom could make a pie. That's how poor.

[A]

I couldn't afford to go buy the apples.

[B]

Yeah, we wasn't picking apples. I was shoplifted.

[A]

So you were a young criminal.

[B]

But I had to eat. That's like 10, 11. I remember I went and stole like pack of hamburger meat, some spaghetti sauce, some noodles. We stole it together. And we was in the kitchen cooking. Mama kids said, what y' all cooking in here?

[A]

She didn't ask where it came from.

[B]

She didn't ask where it came from or nothing. And we was eating it, and then we was eating the food and said, mamas, did y' all steal this stuff? I was like, I ain't say. She said, don't do it again.

[A]

But this is really good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

[A]

What are you most proud of, Keith?

[B]

Just being in a position where my. Where I'm raising my son and my daughter to be like, accountable human beings. See the world for what it is. I think that's my biggest accomplishment. And see the world and people for what it is, too, and being. Have the courage to face up to it. Yeah. Just. Cause it might. It might hurt your feelings in the long run. In the long run, it's going to make you a better person, and it's going to keep you safe because people are who they are. Yep.

[A]

Aside from politics, do you ever wonder what mom and dad would say if they were here today?

[B]

Man, it'd be crazy if they came to my house. Like, man, what the hell is this? Is that a Corvette? Holy. Yeah, because growing up, when my father passed away, I remember we used to get Social Security. I remember those checks being 500amonth. We lived off that.

[A]

Four kids.

[B]

Well, me, my brother, my older brother, he was gone.

[A]

He was gone.

[B]

Yeah. So my sister was an adult. So we. My mom got like $500 and we lived off of that.

[A]

$500 a month.

[B]

And the house payment was 200 or 220,000. It was 197. I remember that payment was 197. Yeah. A month.

[A]

So when. So when you could then afford to buy that big house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you think back to that day to those days of your younger life.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Was that emotional? Was that like.

[B]

Yeah, you should add this image. Like, if you go to Google maps, type in 538 Franklin Street, Martinsville, Virginia. That's where we grew up. And look at that dilapidated house. It's like you actually was raised in a house. I was so ashamed of that house. When my basketball coach or a teacher would drop me off, I would have him drop me off down the street in front of this nice house where white people live. I would go to the house and act like I was going to knock on the door, and then I would.

[A]

It was that bad?

[B]

It was horrible. Yeah.

[A]

So now do you actually have a Corvette? That's so.

[B]

Yeah, I got it. I don't even drive it. I'm gonna get rid of it. That was so stupid. I don't even know why I bought that thing. I got a bad back.

[A]

That's a redneck sports car.

[B]

You.

[A]

Virginia, Martinsville, Virginia. NASCAR 11 Corvette.

[B]

Right. I'm a crap. I could barely get in the damn thing. I was gonna say, yeah, I got a bad back. And I try to look cool getting out of it. I'm like, yes. I get up like, oh, gosh. Holy shit. What the. Huh? Someone called 911. Yeah. It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know about it. I think I was having a midlife crisis. Yeah.

[A]

Happy birthday. You just turned 50.

[B]

51. 51.

[A]

Wait, 75. What?

[B]

I thought you were 74. That's wrong. People say we born 75 is 74. 74.

[A]

Oh, well, forget it. Happy birthday. Whatever.

[B]

Oh, thank you. 51.

[A]

Once you hit 50, it's all downhill again until. Right. Yeah, but you look. I mean, the whole black don't crack thing is legitimate with the Hutch twins.

[B]

That's the one good trait I got from black folks. At least I can look good. Thank God I got this white brain, though.

[A]

Oh, my God. I cannot.

[B]

This is nuts. See?

[A]

And see, this is what I love watching, but even more so in person. He says something, and then Keith will try to be like, well, here's what he meant. Let me soften this a little bit. No, Sometimes you gotta leave it.

[B]

It's all just jokes.

[A]

No, I know, but I am so grateful for you and your authenticity for all these years. And it's courage. It takes cojones to do what you've done when nobody else was doing this. And to never be afraid to fall on your face, get back up and to stay true. You guys have stayed true to yourselves. And no one does that.

[B]

You know what I found in life? Like, when you fall down, that's when you get. You receive your best opportunities. Like, we lost our job from the insurance company for doing the YouTube videos. Like, everything that horrible happening, it was always a silver lining behind it. And I always got bigger and better because of it. A lot of people, when they have a. When they face adversity, they just. They don't embrace it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they just run.

[A]

They delete the post.

[B]

Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And now.

[B]

And I remember when we deleted that post, like, why did y' all delete it? Y' all some suckers, right? I was like, you know what? He's right. Yeah. She's right. I'm not gonna ever delete anything off my page again. Yeah. That was so stupid. Just to appease a bunch of people. They don't agree with what I do. It's like they can unfollow, and they do.

[A]

And then it can be costly. We've seen it. Financially, it can be very costly. You can lose your job. But it's one thing if you're. It depends on what you say, which could be subjective. But at the end of the day, if you're being true to yourself, when we don't leave the post up, when we don't stand up for ourselves, what I found is that it affects you as a human being. It affects your soul when you bury that to please someone else.

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

So thank you for never doing that and for leading the way and for making us laugh and shake our heads for all these years.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

[A]

No, God bless you guys.

[B]

God bless you.

[A]

Thank you. And now you can teach me how to, you know, have enough money to buy a redneck Corvette from doing videos.

[B]

Oh, no. You gotta sell your soul to the devil.

[A]

You mastered that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You guys, thank you so much.

[B]

It's the sage show.