Zachary Levi: Hollywood, Faith, and Cancel Culture | Sage Steele Show | EP 70

Summary

The Sage Steele Show — Episode 70

Zachary Levi: Hollywood, Faith, and Cancel Culture

Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Zachary Levi

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Overview

In this deeply candid and wide-ranging conversation, Sage Steele sits down with actor Zachary Levi to discuss his life, beliefs, and experiences at the intersection of Hollywood, faith, politics, and the challenges of speaking openly in the age of cancel culture. The episode unfolds as an exploration of community, the aftermath of the COVID pandemic, the dangers and promises of AI, and Zachary’s journey as a new father—an honest look at vulnerability, conviction, and hope in an increasingly polarized world.

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Major Themes & Topics

1. Building Community & Wildwood Vision
2. Cancel Culture & Speaking Out
3. Faith, Forgiveness, and Personal Healing
4. The COVID Era: Truth, Propaganda & Vaccine Mandates
5. AI, The Future of Work & Society
6. Fatherhood & Generational Hope
7. Political Division & The Power of Empathy

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Building Intentional Community: Wildwood

• Wildwood's Purpose ([02:00])

  • Zachary describes developing a 75-acre Texas property into a self-sustaining community with housing, a school, farm, wellness center, and more.
  • He frames it as a "one stop shop…an intentional community," drawing inspiration from Hershey, PA—a functional town created around a factory.
  • "Hollywood just doesn’t have something like that. And so that’s what I intend to do." — Zachary ([05:20])

• Diversity & Belonging ([06:46], [09:08])

  • Sage reflects on her transformative experience at Wildwood, where diversity of thought and backgrounds stood out.
  • Zach stresses community isn’t about geographic proximity but truly working, playing, and growing together; it’s about “iron sharpening iron.”
  • "Community is not who you live next to. It’s who you work next to, who you play next to." — Zachary ([09:08])

• Combating the Echo Chamber ([11:59])

  • Zachary rails against “nonsense lies” around individual happiness and the undervaluing of real community, critiquing how modern society and the Internet reinforce division.
  • He values challenging conversation: "If you can’t have your opinions and thoughts challenged, that means you haven’t done enough thinking.” ([12:55])

2. Facing Cancel Culture & Speaking Out

• The Cost of Openness ([14:17], [31:50])

  • Both discuss their experiences with public backlash, especially when taking stances outside mainstream narratives—whether about vaccines, politics, or race.
  • Zach describes his first run-in with “cancellation” during the BLM movement—criticized for saying too little, then too much, and feeling heartbroken by how social media can twist intentions.
  • "For all that to go down the way that it did...it really broke my heart." — Zachary ([38:02])

• Standing Ground on Vaccine Questions ([43:24])

  • Zach details retweeting criticism of Pfizer, fierce industry pressure to delete the tweet, and his refusal:
    • "You shouldn’t be asking any of us actors or crew to force this into our bodies. It’s criminal that you’re doing that. Where is the backbone?" — Zachary ([43:24])
  • He outlines his belief in widespread information manipulation during the pandemic and the dangers of suppressing discussion in Hollywood.

• Losing and Gaining from Speaking Up ([75:41], [80:13])

  • He admits self-doubt and mourning lost friends/opportunities but finds peace in being true to himself and serving a greater call.
  • "I've really, like, wept and been like, maybe I did... Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this wasn't the best way. But A, I can't unring that bell, and B, it's who God made me." — Zachary ([76:17])

3. Faith, Empathy, and Forgiveness

• Why Understanding Matters ([20:32])

  • Zach draws on Christian faith to frame empathy towards even the most reprehensible actions, emphasizing separating condemnation of acts from love for people.
  • "We can both condemn the act and love the person who did it." — Zachary ([20:40])
  • He reflects on prison outreach and the necessity of rehabilitation and grace, extending the same logic to political adversaries.

• Letting Go of Bitterness ([97:45])

  • Therapy, faith, and a commitment to break generational trauma fuel his forgiveness—including towards parents and online haters.
  • "Holding on to unforgiveness is like drinking poison, hoping that the other person will die." — Zachary ([98:52])
  • He strives to see “the child of God in every single person, including ourselves.”

• Faith as Solace Amid Chaos ([62:04])

  • Zachary: "The thing that gives me the most amount of solace in any of it is that I know that there is a God. And that God loves me and he loves you... and all of those malevolent people."
  • He sees his mission at Wildwood as God-given and aligns preparation/"ark-building" with spiritual responsibility.

4. The Pandemic: Trust, Propaganda, and the Vaccine

• Distrust in Leadership ([50:33])

  • Levi and Steele denounce institutions for their handling of COVID-19, especially the suppression of dissent and forced compliance.
  • They debate whether leaders were “fooled” or culpable, expressing skepticism of industry motives and/or government benevolence.
  • "Every industry, it's profit over people, it's profit over the environment, it's profit over anything else." — Zachary ([45:56])

• Event 201 & Media Control ([47:34])

  • Zach highlights “Event 201”—a pandemic simulation involving industry leaders advocated by Bill Gates—to illustrate his belief in premeditated information cascades.
  • Critiques media figures for initially enforcing orthodoxy, later attempting redemption as public sentiment shifted ([27:50]–[30:58]).

5. AI and the Future

• AI Disruption Fears ([52:53])

  • Levi warns that within years, AI will displace most white-collar and creative work—including entertainment—and that the narrative around overpopulation will shift once work is obsolete.
  • Predicts rise of “universal basic income” with tradeoffs in personal liberty, invoking dystopian scenarios.
  • "All of the heads of all of the major AI companies...are literally telling us...there’s not going to be any jobs in five years." — Zachary ([54:27])

• Societal Manipulation & Control ([55:16])

  • Links AI, overpopulation rhetoric, and governmental ambitions for tighter control, referencing “Brave New World” as a blueprint for a seductive, not coercive, form of mass compliance ([64:42]).

6. Fatherhood

• Preparation & Perspective Shift ([70:28])

  • Zach describes feeling called since youth to build Wildwood for future generations, but new fatherhood has brought urgency and a fresh, personal layer to his mission.
  • "I don't ever want him to ever feel like he doesn’t have a safe place to go. Regardless of what he’s done, I will always hold him accountable...But I will always love him." — Zachary ([106:10])

• Values for Henson ([106:10])

  • Wants son to feel loved, secure, and raised with values of service and sacrifice, never questioning his father’s love yet encouraged to confront hardship and lead with compassion.

7. Political Division, Ego, and the Path to Understanding

• Programming & Dehumanization ([23:52], [36:43])

  • Discuss the media-driven demonization of Trump voters and others, leading to the breakdown of empathy and presumption of evil motives.
  • "People are being programmed literally to believe the people on the other side of the aisle are evil." — Zachary ([23:52])

• Healing Divisions ([81:21])

  • Both share pain over lost relationships, but Zach emphasizes not reciprocating exclusion or hatred, keeping the door open for reconciliation and mutual illumination.

• Quote on the Power of Self-Reflection ([25:52])

  • “It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled, because the ego gets involved after you've been fooled.” — Zachary ([25:52])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "To love is to will the good of the other. It doesn’t mean you have to like them…But you want their good, you want their life to work." — Zachary ([13:19])
• "The sooner we can come to a place where we can just hold each other and go, like, man, you really fucked me up. But I understand that…It wasn't your fault. Yes, it's your responsibility…but it just never got healed all the way down." — Zachary ([100:27])
• “What is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul in the process?” — Sage ([85:58])
• “If you are judging your value in this world based on the car that you drive or the shoes that you wear or whatever, like, are you in for a rude awakening. That is a waste of your time…Go try to make the world a better place. And that requires sacrifice.” — Zachary ([87:05])

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• [02:00] — Building Wildwood: Vision for a Revolutionary Community
• [09:08] — The True Nature of Community and Challenging Echo Chambers
• [14:17] — Cancel Culture: First Experience of Public Backlash and Its Effects
• [31:50] — Social Media’s Role in Policing Opinion & Race Discourse
• [43:24] — Vaccine Mandates, Speaking Out, and Industry Backlash
• [52:53] — AI, Dystopian Futures, and Societal Consequences
• [62:04] — The Anchoring Role of Faith Amid Societal Upheaval
• [70:28] — Being a New Father: Generational Purpose & Urgency
• [75:41] — Coping with Loss of Relationships Over Principles
• [97:45] — Forgiveness, Healing from Family Trauma, and Letting Go
• [106:10] — Hopes and Values for His Son
• [111:05] — Reflections on Parenthood and Gratitude

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Conclusion

This episode stands as a testament to Zachary Levi’s willingness to engage deeply, challenge orthodoxy, and live in accordance with his convictions, come what may. Interweaving politics, philosophy, faith, and personal vulnerability, the conversation is both a blueprint for resisting cynicism and a call to community, love, and resilient hope—whether in Hollywood, Texas, or wherever listeners find themselves searching for meaning in tumultuous times.

Transcript

[A]

I met him 10 years ago at a Lakers game and tonight was the first time I finally got to sit down with my friend, the actor Zachary Levi. You know, there's not that many people that I know who are this open and honest and vulnerable about really any and every topic that you throw at him. He's one of the most well read people that I know and he did not hold back tonight. Let's see the number of things we talked about. How about the lasting effects of the COVID vaccine, not just physically, but mentally. And now the lack of trust that so many people have in our government and the medical profession as a whole. Also something he's never talked about before, AI. The emergence of AI. There's a lot of good and there's also things that are not so good and he believes we should buckle up for that. And also, how about this Love. How deeply Zachary loves even his haters, even the people that try to bring him down for standing up and being more open with his opinions and his politics. And he spoke the truth about his faith. Again, something that he's always been open about, but probably never to this level. Maybe it has to do with the fact that he is a new father, his beautiful son, Henson. So much to discussed in this episode with really a wonderful, courageous human being who is making a difference in the world and right here in la, in Hollywood. Enjoy this episode of the Sage Steel show with Zachary Levi. Do you remember the last time we saw each other? This is a test of the emergency broadcast system.

[B]

When was the last time we saw each other? I don't know. Was it in New York? It wasn't in New York. No, no, no. Where?

[A]

Where?

[B]

When?

[A]

At your house in Texas for the fourth of July.

[B]

Oh my gosh. That's right. That's right. You came out. Oh, man, that was a fun one too.

[A]

That was amazing. Yeah, it was so special. So it's at Wildwood? Yeah, Wildwood Studios.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm endeavoring to build. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Right now it's, you know, 75 beautiful, pretty virgin acres. I mean, we've got the cabins there and some guest cabins and the barn and all the toys and all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, I'm I'm right now in knee deep in raising $40 million to go and develop sound stages and 42 homes so people can actually live there full time. And a school for our kids and a farm for all of our food and a hotel for people to come and visit and stay. And a wellness center with stem Cells and exosomes and peptides and, you know, I mean, I think that, I mean, I've shared a lot of this with you before, but the world out, this world that we're in is just lacking. It's broken. Or you can't wait around for the government in any city, county, state, or even federally to fix all of these problems. And I wasn't certainly going to wait around even when the administration, like current administration right now with all of its foibles and there are plenty of. I still think, you know, which is why we both really believe that, you know, jumping in and being a part of that and helping to sway some minds and hearts to be like, hey guys, we have one option here. There's one option. But again, he's not a perfect man. And I don't know what all is about to come out with Epstein list and all that stuff and what. But even still, the alternative would have been catastrophic as far as I'm concerned. And, but, but the point I was making in all that is, even with an administration that I think is one of the best suited to actually get some of the more hopefully positive changes that we needed in this country, even that's still not going to move the needle enough to give us the lives that we all have been dreaming of. And when our schools are all broken, when our whole education system, when the health and wellness system. I mean, God, I love Bobby Kennedy so much. And he thank God, I mean, that was, that was the biggest reason I was even in the fight because I really, really believe in, in Bobby and continue to. And he is making really truly positive changes through his position in hhs. But even that is still going to take a long time. It's still going to take a long time to finally catch up to us and our health and the downstream effects of all of the toxins and nonsense and crap that we've been fed. And so, yeah, I mean, I've just always had this vision that I really believe that God gave me many, many, many years ago that if you want to have a better life and you want to have better school for your kids and better health and wellness for you and your family and be able to walk to work and not be stuck in a car and commuting hours at a time and be disconnected from your community. As actors, you know, we're so nomadic. I mean, we get shipped around everywhere to go make a movie here and make a movie there and no won divorce rates in Hollywood are so high and why people are disconnected from their communities and Their children because of all of these things. And so I was like, okay, you gotta go build a one stop shop. You gotta go build an intentional community. That really is, you know, it's like a factory town of old. It's like what old industrialists did. It's like Hershey's Pennsylvania. Hershey's Pennsylvania exists because Hershey wanted to make a bunch of chocolate. And he knew that he needed more than a factory. He needed homes for his workers and schools for their kids and clinics so they could all stay healthy so that all of that ecosystem could thrive. And now because of that, we have a full blown city in Pennsylvania called Hershey's Pennsylvania. And I think you can do that. And we need to do that with a lot of different industries. Hollywood just, you know, doesn't have something like that. And so that's what I intend to do. And that's what ultimately Wildwood, you know, and it's beautiful.

[A]

I believe you had, I don't know, 75, 80 people there. Yeah.

[B]

Let's see, the year that you came, we probably had, I think we had about 50 that were staying on campus at the, at the ranch. And then we had a bunch of people that were coming and visiting during the days. And then on the 4th itself, we probably had, I don't know, 150 or something like that.

[A]

There were a lot. I just, I haven't seen you since that. And that, that was really. We saw each other two years. Wow. Yeah, that weekend really changed me because of the feeling that you get when you walk, slash drive onto that property. First of all, I didn't get there till one in the morning cause of plane delays. And when an Uber takes you, I'm like, okay, that's like, I just, I'm gonna die out here. Because he couldn't find the driveway. And then I'm walking in the night and you come up on your four wheeler and pick us all up with suitcases from the gate. I'm like, where the hell am I right now? I trusted him and I don't know where I am, but exactly.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

It was so, for everybody else, like, it was so cool because you had us once we reserved it and said, we're coming. There's two man RVs, which I'd never been in one of those. And for four or five days you camp out and it was the first thing that I said yes to at that level. A couple of days alone, it was kind of scary. And I only know you and you're the host. And by the time I left, I had new friends who were so different. Different demographics, different race, different everything. Living all across the country and the diversity of thought that exists within your group is something that was the biggest takeaway for me, as well as the fact that I got my first tattoo thanks to you. My dad. My dad hates you for that. I'm kidding. My dad's like, this is Zach's fault, isn't it? I'm like, zach didn't tell me to do it.

[B]

Remember? I still don't have a tattoo. I don't know what the hell you're doing.

[A]

You, the girl on your property was like, oh, yeah. Real quick, sidebar. Do you remember Julie from Chicago? We love Julie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I met her that first day, and by the end of the first day, I'm like, okay, we're best friends for life. She's like, let's get matching tattoos. I'm like, okay. So she designed the matching tattoo with the woman that I had known for, you know, eight hours. And we went to get the Tattoo on the 4th of July, the last night, and your girl finished me. I went first and then was too tired to finish. Do you remember this? She was too tired to finish. And so the matching tattoos aren't matching. Julie never got it, and that was the whole deal. So I need to come back to your ranch to have her get the tattoo with my best friend that I had known for 12 hours.

[B]

I would love nothing more than to have you guys come back. I mean, listen, I love all of that, and I knew that you were experiencing that then because you were telling me, even in the midst of it, just what a transformational experience it was for you. But to me, that is, you know, right now, or, you know, what you experienced was, yeah, we got a bunch of RVs and people, you know, kind of camping out and doing their thing. Eventually, hopefully soon, we'll have actual homes and a hotel and all of those things. But regardless of whatever the level of the trappings or the level of, you know, accommodations are, the point is community.

[A]

Correct?

[B]

It's community. And community is not. You know, I think that we've all been fed a lot of really nonsense lies and really nefarious lies at that, that, you know, when it comes to community, like, for example, we've all been told this lie, particularly in the Western world, or maybe exclusively in the Western world, that. And. And very much in the United States, leading that. This kind of idea that, well, if you have the right job and you make the right amount of money and you have the right spouse, and they have the right job and they make the right amount of money, and you have the right house in the right neighborhood, and you have the right amount of kids to go to the right schools, you go on the right vacations, you have the right cars and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then eventually, you know, eventually you'll be happy. And that is absolutely a lie. But then along with that, we've all been led to believe that somehow community is. Yeah, it's like, it's good, but it's not that important. And if it is important, well, it's okay. I have community because I live in a neighborhood. But community is not who you live next to. It's who you work next to, who you play next to. And that's why, like, at Wildwood, I could just go build a bunch of homes, but then people are just maybe working remotely at home. You have to interact with people, people, and that's where diversity of thought and diversity of opinion. And when you can actually go work next to people that are different than you and play next to people that are different than you, you actually learn from each other. You challenge each other. It's iron sharpening iron, and it allows you to really, because otherwise you end up in, you know, I mean, look at the Internet. It's nothing but echo chambers because you're not. It's algorithm that way. So that it's just rewarding this. Well, I have this opinion, and so do I, and I agree. And we're all. And then we're all just like, you know, getting angry about this other side as opposed to being able to be confronted with, like, when you came to Wildwood, I have lots of different friends, very lots of different friends. And I want to. Because I want to always be challenged. I love conversations where my friends who think very different from me, politically, spiritually, we get into it. We. We unpack it. Because I don't. I only know what I know. And if somebody who has very differing opinions from me can still see me in love, Right? That's one of the biggest things you have to provide an environment where people feel safe enough and they feel like, hey, this per. You know, they voted for this person, and I voted for this person. But I see them as a human being. It's not just anonymously online and I don't know this person, I'm gonna go attack them. It's like, no, we. We just shared a beer and we got on a float or we jumped on some scooters and we're going and it's like, oh, they're a human. Look at that. Surprise, surprise.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

They're a human being. And that allows us to, like, break bread and. And really get into the meat of what it means to be a human being and be challenged. We want to be challenged. You should not be insulating yourself so that you can't have someone challenge your opinions. If you can't have your opinions and thoughts challenged, that means you haven't done enough thinking about your own thoughts and opinions. I guess why people get aggro. You ever notice, like, the. I mean, you see this a lot with a lot of. I find there are more people. I have identified this behavior a little bit more in people who are radically left than right. But I see it on both sides in these radical peoples. When they're confronted with a very calm person just asking them questions, they freak out. Yeah, it's like demons, you know, true fascist, Nazi, whatever. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on a sec. Like, why, why are you jumping to that? Why not just say, oh, oh, wow, this is what you think? Okay, okay, well, let's unpack that. Why do you use Socratic method? Ask questions, get to the bottom of it? I think that that's how we. That's how we come together as people. And it doesn't mean you have to agree. We don't have to all agree on anything other than I believe I want your good. Like, this is one of the best, probably the best definition of love I've ever heard in my life. To love is to will the good of the other. It doesn't mean you have to like them. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them in any way, shape or form. But you want their good, you want their life to work. And the amount of hate that's being thrown out there by people who are claiming to want to save the world.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But it's like, hang on. But who do you want to save it for? Clearly not the person that you're screaming at. I want to save it for everybody. I want everyone on this earth to be loved, to feel that, to have an opportunity to live their best life. Even people that vehemently disagree with me, I want their best. They. Some of those people don't think that I do because of how I voted or what I believe or whatever, but that's ultimately what I do believe. And what you experienced at Wildwood, I think is just an example of that.

[A]

That is the perfect example. And that's why it was one of my one of the things I'm the most grateful for over this journey, probably the last, gosh, 10 years, even go way back. I know you agree with this as well. I say this to my kids, who, of course, get caught up in social media and conversations with friends and professors who are very leading with what they think you should believe because they're there and they're in these leadership positions. Right. With that authority. But when you get crazy mad at somebody because their opinion is different, that says so much about you. Actually, to your point, that means you haven't thought enough about your own opinion and your why. But to me, having an opinion is based solely on your experiences. And so I might not like it, but instead of being angry, it's like, well, I wonder why Zachary believes that. Yeah, like, be curious, be curious, ask the question. But experiences are what dictate that. And so when you get into the political realm and there's this ugliness and again, on both sides. But I think it's right now, in the last few years, it seems to come slightly more from the left. My experience, and I think many others, it is the antithesis of what they're preaching. And you can sit back and you can kind of take it, or you can pick and choose when to speak up. Not just to defend yourself, but to defend the person who is afraid to speak up, who doesn't also have the platform, who is afraid that they're going to potentially lose their job, lose whatever, family members because of it. I think that that's where I hit a couple years ago. I know you have, too. I texted you once when one of the first attempted cancellations of you, probably three or four years ago, and I was concerned for you. Not because you couldn't take it. I mean, you're tougher than I am, but I'm like, no, no, no. They're crushing him, but they don't know his heart. They don't know his why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

I mean, not even sometimes. I mean I think that if we're all going to move forward and I want us to all move forward, we have to know the why. We have to know the why behind everybody. Like, I mean this is one of the, this is one of the things that I think is most unfortunate about how our society works. You know, even with like criminals, for example, using an extreme example. But we want to. Everyone wants justice. Whether you're on the right or the left or whatever. Everyone's like, I want justice, right? We want justice to be served for the most part. And so when someone does something wrong and because also we want to be very clear that we are not them and we are on the side of good and they're on the side of bad, right? And so there's this human instinct to want to distance and shame and attack, you know, whatever however you want to put it. And so, you know, somebody does something horrible and let's use murder, because it's probably the most horrible. Someone murders someone else, and it might even be really egregious, like in cold blood or just with malice or whatever. Obviously, we all completely believe that's wrong. 99.9999% of the population can go, that's wrong. But the vast majority of the population has no interest at all in the why. Because they're like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter why that person killed that person. They're a monster. They're evil. It's like, listen, it's very important to understand the why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because if we don't understand the why, then we can't help either that person or anyone else in their situation to rehabilitate out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Of that. Right. Our prison system is just a factory for making already very damaged people more damaged so that when they do get out of prison, if they get out of prison, they're not rehabilitated in any way and they're going back into society and they're. And they're causing even more damage. Why? Because we don't even bother to have enough curiosity or empathy to say, hey, we can both condemn the act and love the person who did it. Which doesn't mean you have to like them. It just means you have to be willing to want them to find salvation, to find hope, to find a better thing. I love, like, it's. It's one of the most heartening things that I've ever come across. You know, people that go to prisons and actually go out of their way and spend their time and their energy to sit with hardened criminals, murderers, to try to just connect to them as a human being, even though they've done atrocious things. But to say, hey, I believe that there's still a child of God in you. Still. And we just want you to know that. We want you to know that you have not been entirely. By the way, I mean, this is for anybody listening. You know, there's a lot of Christians out there that I don't think live by these types of. These types of tenants. Because again, it's like this justice thing, it's like, well, we got to punish those people. We got to punish them. And if we. And then when you bring up that, hey, maybe we should understand them, they're like, well, what are you trying to do? Absolve them of their crime? No, they deserve some punishment. They deserve whatever that needs to be. You can't just let people, you can't just be like, oh, well, because this is what happens. You try to talk about having a little empathy and people go, oh, what, you're just going to let them off the hook? No, it's not, this isn't a matter of absolving them of that and saying, well, they had a hard life, so don't put them in prison. No, what you're saying is, let's understand, oh, yeah, they did have a hard life and they didn't have a father and they got jumped into a gang and they watched other people kill other people. And then they were handed a gun at 14 and they were told to go kill somebody else. And that's where their erring kind of characteristics started coming out. And then at 21, they robbed a liquor store and in cold blood, three people. And they're. And that person that shows no remorse. And so we look at them and go, animal, animal, monster. But yes, what they did, animalistic and monstrous, no doubt. But there's still a child of God in that person. I fully believe that with everything in me. But the only way that we can get to that child to show them God's love is to sit with them and say, none of, none of what you did. You can't go back in time and change it. And you will have to serve time for what you've done and there will be punishments for whatever you've done. But I'm still not giving up on the fact that there is still a human inside of you that is transformative love. But that's the why. But people don't want to understand the why because it's so much easier to just be like, cast them aside, just cast them aside.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then when it comes to people's political views, we are so inundated with so much propaganda and so much programming. I mean, this is why people, I think again, on radical right and left, because there are people radicalizing on both sides. But I have noticed, and I think you noticed too, that there are people, I would say more on the left that have found themselves so unhappy and full of anger and hate. Why? Because the majority, not all, but the majority of the mainstream media is left leaning and very anti anything. On the Republican side, specifically somebody like Trump, Orange Hitler, all that stuff gets thrown around. He's a, he's a fascist, he's a Nazi. And anyone who votes for him or even thinks about voting for him is a fascist and a Nazi. Well, when you're told that day in and day out for years. Well, then in your mind, you're like, I don't need to have any empathy or any grace or know the why behind any of these people. They're evil. They're just being. People are being programmed literally to believe that the people on the other side of the aisle are evil. Not have a different opinion, not have a different value set, not have a different background or experiences any of that. Just evil. You're evil for wanting to vote for that guy. Don't you know. Well, don't I know what? The things that you've been told. Have you. Have you gone and double checked on all of those sources? I mean, look what's going on right now. God bless Tulsi Gabbard, right? The. The amount of crazy, like all of this, the Russia hoax and, and the Steele dossier, these were major pillars for why so many people on the left legitimately think that Trump is as evil or colluded with Russia. And they won't. It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can't. I can't backtrack on that now. Yeah, I mean, this is why.

[A]

Ego involved, for sure.

[B]

Well, yes, because it's survival. Ego is survival. And if this is why Samuel Clemens, in a long line of very, very wise and intelligent people, he has this quote, which is essentially, it's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled, because the ego gets involved after you've been fooled. You might not know you got fooled, but once someone's trying to explain to you, yo, you got bad info. No, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't. Because if I got bad info, that means I treated everyone on that other side of the issue like they were evil and wrong and horrible and whatever else. And I can't. My ego won't let me. Won't. I can't humble myself to eat that crow because that means I'm dying inside. Right? It's crazy. The trap that people have found themselves in. And listen, if new information comes out about any of the people like Trump or anybody else that I've supported, I would like to believe that I will go to the world and say, hey, you know what? I was wrong about this and I was wrong about that. I hope not. I'm hoping that the people that I believed in, whether it's specifically Bobby and Tulsi, but, you know, through them, Donald Trump or whatever else, I'm hoping and believing that they have at least enough character where they haven't embroiled themselves in whatever they've embroiled themselves in. But the reality is, you know, Obama and Hillary were absolutely involved in using our intelligence assets to undermine an actual president. And the things that they've all accused Trump of doing, which is insane to me. Right. Anyway.

[A]

But not surprising.

[B]

But not surprising to me. This is, this is the game. Yeah.

[A]

And you're right, none of those people, especially within the mainstream media, are coming back. I shouldn't say none, because now all of a sudden you have a couple, you have a Jake Tapper out there. I just saw Chris Cuomo on Twitter today. I was wrong. Yeah, I was wrong.

[B]

Cuomo, he was one of the first, I think, on that. But that was also, you know, he got fired and other things.

[A]

Well, there's, there's the importance of them to stay relevant, maintain a paycheck is certain. Helps for clicks when it's like, oh, look, he's coming up. Especially when you see where it's falling and oh, wait, this is where the good is. This is where the people were right. Maybe, no pun intended there, but maybe I need to go over here and jump on that train, at least to an extent. I am trying very hard to forgive is not the word. That's too strong of a word. It's not to that level. But to say, yeah, come on over. Uh huh. Those of you who crushed, crushed so many of us who just were asking questions, for example, about the forced vaccine when you work at Disney or any of these companies. Just a question, just a question about, well, wait a minute, what are those 34 charges against Donald Trump and what are they and what's the truth behind those? The litany of things that we just asked questions about. Because I was curious and I ensured I wanted to be educated before having an opinion and casting a vote. And now it's just. Fauci, that's probably one person I'll never forgive. I'll admit that. I'm sorry. Jesus, I don't know that I'll ever get there based on the millions and millions of people who he has affected more than affected in some cases. So there needs to be some accountability. That's why I love to see what Tulsi Gabbard is doing. And that does take courage. When you look at a Tulsi who, what used to be right there next to Barack Obama and all those people which can you imagine how pissed off they are right now to see her at that podium in the White House.

[B]

Press briefing room looking all good and Sleek and beautiful. Wearing her white suit with her white streak and being like, haha, boom, boom. Here's some info. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And by the way. And she does it, I think so, with so much class.

[A]

She does.

[B]

Because she doesn't allow. She does. Like, it's one of the things that I hate the most, even about people that I agree with, is that there are people that are very intelligent and we might even agree on certain things politically or whatever, but the amount of snark that comes out of them, I'm like, do you think this is helping? How is this helping? You're doing exactly what the other side is doing by looking down your nose and just being snarky and sarcastic. And I'm like, guys, you're. You should be. You speak what is true, but do it in a way where you're not alienated. You want to bring people into the fold, not. And also bring them into what is true. If you're just being snarky about what the information is, they're just gonna. It's just. They're just gonna deflect it. They're not even gonna listen to you because of your tone. And Tulsi is somebody who's just such a pro and she just gives you the information. She's not trying to do anything other than just do exactly what, by the way, politicians and journalists and everybody else should be doing. I'm not trying to sway you in any way. Here's the information. Do with this. Do with this what you will.

[A]

And she is genuinely one of the best humans I've ever been around. She makes me a better person. And when you look at her, why? For serving her country in the first place. It was fascinating. I was at her confirmation hearing and I had to hold myself back. I'm like, I will get arrested if I stand up and say what I want to say right now. In defense, she didn't need me or anyone else. Right. But when you look at the way the way the questions were asked, the accusatory tone, and then the vitriol from the people at the highest levels, it was very, very eye opening.

[B]

So gross.

[A]

Yeah, so gross. You know, I was trying to think back to the first time, the first time they really came for you. What was that? When? When was that?

[B]

When was the first time they really came for me? I don't know. It's been so many times. I would say probably, I don't know. I mean, you know, it was interesting. Like when all the George Floyd stuff and Black Lives Matter stuff was going down There. That people didn't really. I didn't really weigh in much on that, but that. But they. They tried to comfort me because I didn't weigh in on it because I wasn't posting the vlog. Yeah. And. Well, no, actually, ironically, I did. I did. I just wanted to people off my back. I was like, if this is something we can all do to come together, to just be like, okay. And I did. And then right after I did, then it was all over the Internet. There was like, take the black square down because it's. It's. It's screwing up the algorithm and they can't get the real, you know, whatever. I was like, what. What are we even doing? What are we doing? So I immediately took it down. But. But I didn't know, actually, I. I had reached out to you. I was in tears. I. I was so affected emotionally. I was so affected emotionally because I. I know how I feel about all people. Black, brown, white, red, yellow, red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in the sight. Like, I don't. Oh, man. Not to go off of too much of a tangent, but.

[A]

No, it's okay.

[B]

I guess that's what podcasts are for. It. I don't. It angers me. It boggles my mind. And it angers me that my whole life, our whole life, I mean, really, up until the last few years, Martin Luther King, I have a dream speech, talking about how he wanted his children to be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. This was beautifully said, perfectly set, and exactly what we needed to do and what we needed to hold to all the way up and through. I mean, gosh, in the 90s, early 2000s, I remember en Vogue, who I loved singing. Free your mind and the rest will follow. Be colorblind. Don't be so shallow. That's what we all agreed on. We all agreed we should be colorblind. We should not be judging anyone at all based on the color of their skin. The black community absolutely believed that. And the white community and everybody else was like, yeah, you know, I mean, obviously there's. There are racists, clearly. And guess what, folks? They're not exclusive to the United States. In fact, the United States has done a pretty darn good job of making sure that that is not the thing that is the driving force in our politics and in our churches and everything else, which is not. You could not say the same for a lot of other countries. There are a lot of other countries that when you go visit them, they are Quite racist toward all manner of different people, including even amongst themselves. But I digress. I'm not going to go down that road. The idea that we had gone from being told as a white man, be colorblind, be colorblind, be colorblind, be colorblind. And I was like, yes, I'm with you, because this is just a melanin.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

You go right below that, and we are the same. So why are we doing that? And then for that to all get hijacked, and all of a sudden it's like, if you don't. If you don't assess me based on my skin color, then you are a racist because you're not doing. You're. You're not honoring who I am culturally. Or I'm like, I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know what to do anymore. You were saying we should be colorblind all the way through the civil Rights movement, all the way up through En Vogue and all of that stuff. And now you're saying that that is not what we should be doing because of. Why did anybody bother to find out where all of these insidious seeds have been planted and watered? I mean, it's crazy. So anyway, when all this stuff was going down, I mean, we were in. The pandemic was happening, and that goes down, and it's this powder keg. And I had people just lighting me up on social media, like, you, you must be a racist. How can you not be? And I was just trying to stay out of it. So they were kind of coming for me on that, by the way. That's. And, you know, going down that thread for a second. While I do not agree at all with any manner of police brutality at all or being even callous with anyone's life. Right. To look at the actual autopsy reports of what happened with George Floyd.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And to know that he did not die of any kind of asphyxiation from having somebody. Derek Chauvin on him. Do I think Derek Chauvin is a good dude? Or like. No. I don't know. He seems kind of like, you know, a callous cop. But he didn't kill George Floyd. The autopsy report shows that. Floyd, what did he have all manner of drugs in his system that caused him. His heart, to literally stop because of the drugs, not because he couldn't breathe. And none of that is being accepted.

[A]

He was saying, I can't breathe in the back of the cop car.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Long before Der Fishman even laid a hand on Him. And now that we have a statue of him in Minneapolis, so I get it. And as a woman of color talking to a white man here, I have felt horrible. Obviously, I wasn't part of the people coming against you and calling you a racist.

[B]

No, no, not at all.

[A]

And in general, I think most are normal, common sense people who are. But, man, they're loud on that other side who are saying, you must apologize because you're a white man, and. And you're a racist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And fill in the blank with everything else. So I feel like that was a turning point for a lot of people.

[B]

It was. But that was a really. Because I do, really genuinely. And I can't emphasize this enough, like, I was put on this earth to love people. I think we were all put on this earth to love, ultimately, and I think that's part of the great journey that we're all on. But I have felt it ever since I was a kid. Like, I have no. I have no animosity toward anybody because of what their skin color is or, like, for people to be attacking me. Somebody who has literally fought for. And I have every single person. Like, as an actor, when I get an opportunity to be the lead on a movie or a TV show or whatever, that is my job, to stand up for my cast and for my crew, much to the chagrin of many of the people who employ me, because they. They want me to kind of toe their more elite line and be like, hey, just, like, you know, be a part of our club. So what if we don't feed them well or don't pay them well or their hours are crap or whatever? It's like, no, I'm one of them. I'm not one of your elite. I don't want to be that. I want to be somebody who's a man of the people, who's caring about other people who are being neglected. That's. That's what I believe I've been called to do. And so for all that to go down the way that it did was. It just. It really broke my heart. And that's when I reached out to you, and I was like, sage, I need. I need somebody to, like, help me here, because I. I feel like. I feel like I'm kind of losing my mind. Like, I'm being accused of these things for lit and, by the way. And not for po. It was for not doing. Not for going and bowing down and kissing boots and apologizing for being white. I'm like, this is. This is another level of insanity. And I don't know what to do about it. And you talked me off a ledge. And you're like, zach, you're okay. You're okay. You don't meet. And you even said something to the effect of, like, you don't need me to tell you even that. I know. You know, like, you were very gracious and all of that, but I would say the first time that people, like, really wanted to cancel me was. It was. Gosh, when was that? It was, like, 2022.

[A]

I was gonna say 22, 23. I remember coming home from being on SportsCenter one day, ye. Pulling over the side of the road because they don't like cell phone service there. And you have. There's certain spots. I remember pulling over and. And. And chatting about one. Whatever that was. I tried to.

[B]

Well, it was a tweet.

[A]

It was a tweet.

[B]

Gosh, I. Sometimes I'm on a flight and I've had a drink, and I'm like, you know what? Well, let me just. And I. And somebody had had. I was already. You know, I wasn't very. I was trying to thread the needle of standing up for what I believed in, but not, like, putting myself in too much of hot water. But we were, like, well into the pandemic, and clearly we were being lied to about the vaccines. Like, it was so, so, so clear. And this random person. I don't. I don't remember the name of this person or their account, but I came across. I don't even follow them. It was, like, in the. For you, you know, like, the curated stuff. And I came across this tweet, and it said something to the effect of, pfizer is more dangerous to this world than they're helpful. Or something like that. Agree or disagree? And I reposted it, and I said, hardcore agree. Hardcore agree. And the next morning, yeah, it was like. It was like January or February of 23. Because Shazam 2 was coming out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I woke up the next morning, and I had a slew of text messages from my publicists, from my producers. They were like, you got to take that tweet down. You got to take that tweet down. And I was like, why? I mean, like, I. Like, I kind of understand why you want me to do that. Because you all don't have a backbone. I don't know. Like, you all are clearly. Or not even a backbone. No, plenty of them do. But they were. But they were all propagandized into believing that this was this miracle, that we were all Given to make sure that we all didn't die some horrible death. When all of that was propaganda, like all of it. It didn't stop you from getting sick. It didn't stop you from transmitting it. It didn't stop you from even getting really sick or even dying. And more than that, the data continues to come out that it was actual poison for people. The amount, the VAERS data, if you just look at the. And the various data is underreported. And if you just look at the various data, the vaccine accident reporting system or whatever, the spike, the spike in reports of people having adverse effects from vaccines which has been there for decades, right? They have all these different vaccines and there's little blips of oh, yeah, they had these adverse effects. The COVID shots. The amount of adverse effects. I mean, it is criminal. It is criminal. What was forced, literally forced upon us. And now. And now people in this revisionist history, Nobody was forced to get the vaccine. Are you crazy? They were forced to get the vaccine. If you're threatening their employment and saying if you don't do this thing, get this experimental shot that we don't have the data for. But boom. Advisors says the data is there. They've clinically trialed it. You need 10 years to do a clinical trial.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I mean, it's crazy. And so, yeah, anyway, take that tweet down. No, absolutely not. I did not take it down. Number one, I fully believed it. And it wasn't like I was wrong. I was right. I was right. I was just years ahead of what more people would consider a more acceptable time to say something like that. And also, and this is what I told my publicist and this is what I told my agents and managers and producers and everybody else. I go, do you think this, by me taking it down, it's going to make it better or worse? Because if I do take it down, all I'm doing is sense is signaling to those people who are coming at me that they're winning. And now they see blood in the water and now they're going to double down and triple down and quadruple down. And I was like, no, guys, it's out there, okay? And by the way, you should all know this. You shouldn't be asking any of us actors or any of the crew or anyone else to force this thing into our bodies. It's criminal that you're doing that. Where is the backbone? Why aren't any of you standing up? When I retweeted that, I immediately followed it because I didn't want everybody making this just about the COVID vaccine. They had already paid out multiple class action lawsuits for billions of dollars because they led everyone astray by putting products to market that they knew were injuring and killing people. But they roll the dice. They go, well listen, we already spent, let's say, you know, a billion dollars making this new drug. Turns out in our internal testing it's not really effective and actually has a lot of adverse effects. But we're in the hole a billion dollars if we don't put it to market. So we're going to put it out there, we're going to market the hell out of it. We're going to get a bunch of unsuspecting because everyone trusts, everyone trusts the medical industry because their medicine, they've all taken the Hippocratic oath. They don't care about you guys, I hate to tell you. And, and again, people go, well, would you think every doctor was in on it? No. Every doctor is listening to a doctor or a specialist above them who's all listening to the lancet. You don't have to get everybody in on this thing. All you have to do is change the information at the top of the waterfall and everyone just looks there and goes, well, if the lancet says it's safe, then it's safe. So lots of good meaning. Well meaning doctors who cared, who care about all of these things, they're like, well if it says it's safe then they must have done the studies. And also for what it's worth, doctors are paid a lot of money to keep every child on a vaccine schedule. They get massive bonuses if they make sure that 75, 80% of all of the children in their practice are fully vaccinated. So they're incentivized. And of course when you give people financial incentive, they're willing to kind of be like not do a tremendous amount of extra research to make sure that it's all good. They say it's good, I'm getting paid a lot of money, let's just leave it at that. So if you're still skeptical about the by the way, any industry, they only care about profit, guys, every industry, it's profit over people, it's profit over the environment, it's profit over anything else. That's the way it works. And it's tragic and it's sad, but that's the reality. And the sooner we can accept that, the sooner we can start making changes and moving beyond that. This was a very well orchestrated, it was propaganda campaign. And are you familiar with Gosh, what was it like? It was called Summit 201 or Agenda 201 or something like this. Definitely go look this up and link this. And once you find it, I can't remember the exact name of it. A year before the pandemic, Bill Gates and a bunch of other very wealthy, powerful people got. And a lot of people within the corrupted medical system held a summit where they got all of the, like, heads of the social media companies. Media companies. They got them all together and they said, we just want to run a hypothetical scenario with you. Should there be a global pandemic that, you know, acts kind of like this and it's spreading around and people are getting sick and they're dying. How do we all need to work together to ensure that everyone. Did you not know about this? Oh, boo. It's terrifying. And also not shocking at all, because how would all of that work so well if they hadn't already prepped people? Right. Again, it's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled. If you get all the heads, I mean, you know, Zuckerberg's already admitted as much. He's like, we were basically told to censor all this stuff because it was in the name of national security, but, you know, in hindsight, we wish we didn't do it. Yeah, thanks, Zuck. Why didn't you have a backbone then? Why couldn't you have looked at all this and said, hang on a second, that's not. That's not legal. I mean, it's like, it's not ethical. But because they were already primed, the pump was primed by Fauci and Gates and all of these people. And they said, yeah, so listen, you know, should this. Something happen, sweep across the country, that will probably happen. You know, it'll probably come from, like, a wet market or blah, blah, blah. It'll probably come from a bat. And that's all turned out to be absolute garbage as well. It came from the lab. If you. Even. If you even questioned in the beginning, censored, kicked off of social media, and that is how they can control the narrative, and they get everyone hating each other and at each other's throats. And when they've convinced the general populace that if you don't get vaccinated, you are killing people, I mean, of course people are going to react that way.

[A]

Of course that's what people said to you. That's what people said.

[B]

That's what they said.

[A]

And I guess I don't. I'm not as kind with the leaders who were forcing all of us and millions of Americans to take it and pressuring you like that. Where yes, I think we believed a lot of it at first. And then you do a tiny bit of homework and you start to connect a couple of the dots, even if you don't fully know about that meeting of the minds a year or two prior. And there are some things that just didn't add up, which is why I began to question. So I just don't buy it that they all were fooled. I think at some point there is fear and this is why there has to be some forgiveness there. Right. And the why behind the opinions, et cetera. But at some point they had to make a decision too. And are we gonna drop the hammer on somebody if they don't take this vaccine? The answer at Disney was yes. The answer at many, many places was yes. And so. But deep down they, I believe they knew, but they were too far in to then turn. You believe they knew what they knew, that this wasn't adding up and that it wasn't right to force everybody to do this to their bodies. As employers, I don't. You think they were all fooled?

[B]

I think, listen, I think the vast majority of the population, and I'm talking about 70 to 80% of the population, maybe as low as 60, but I think it's higher. Let's say 70%, 70% of the population is struggling with a cognitive dissonance where it is far too difficult for them to wrap their head around the idea that their own government and all of the major industries would lie to them in order to, at the, at the most generous to just make a lot of money and perhaps even worse than that. And I. People would call me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist merely because I'm willing to look at the reality of how the almighty dollar works. That's how it works. But people, it's way too difficult to hold two super conflicting ideas intention in your mind, which is I can live a happy life, my kids are safe, I'm safe, I can go to my job, I can make money, I can go on vacations and we're okay. And also my government or some people within the government and certain industries, and certain people in those industries would go so far as to poison and kill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A vast majority of the populace merely because it's better for their bottom line. That doesn't. It doesn't they can't they. And I get it, that seems crazy. Like how, how does LA exit? How. How are we even doing what we're. How are we sitting here on a podcast if that nefariousness was going on, that's crazy. So I'm gonna choose this one. I'm not gonna choose this one. And I'm certainly not gonna believe that they're compatible enough to exist in the same universe. So I'm gonna dismiss that. I'm not gonna think about that. It's a little bit of like head in the sand or whatever, like. And ah, that's crazy. That's conspiracy theory and that's the, that's the issue.

[A]

It's easier.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I guess it's easier. But also I understand the difficulty. The valley that they have to get over in order to get to the place where they can still, like, I live my life and you know, pretty normally, but I don't do it without also believing that there is some dark shit going on in the world. And I'm. I don't know that I've ever said this on a podcast, so you might be the first. But I think that all of this ties into what I think is the thing we all need to be honestly worried about the most, which is AI. And I can talk all day long about AI and how it's already disrupting our industry. Entertainment like it's toast. In two years, there will be AI agents and programs that will be able to make you a movie, a TV show, a video game, music, anything that are indiscernible from human made even better. And there'll be a fraction of the price. And when that happens, when anyone can sit at home and make whatever they want and it costs them next to nothing, and very masturbatory, by the way, being told, look at me, I'm the filmmaker now. I made a movie because I have a few creative ideas and I can push some keystrokes. And now you've made something marvelous, amazing, but really the AI made it for you. So that's where we're going. It's going to really screw things up for lots and lots and lots of people. And by the way, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, it's going to hit every industry, everywhere, all of the heads of all of the major AI companies are all literally telling us in interviews there's not going to be any jobs in five years. There's not going to be any white collar jobs. All of these executives, all of these people, all of the people that are in positions of power right now that are making pretty decent money, they're not going to be needed you won't need a lawyer. You won't. I mean, some of us are pretty happy about that. I love my lawyers. But, but, but so, so all of that stuff's going to go down. But I just, just play this out with me for a second. Okay. We're being told for a long, long, long, long time the planet's overpopulated. We're overpopulated. We're overpopulated. We're overpopulated. And then use climate change as the, one of the major factors for that. Even though if you go dig, what am I saying? If you go deep dive.

[A]

Yes, there you go.

[B]

If you deep dive into the topic, like I don't deny that the climate changes. The question is why and how is the climate changing? And you've got people that are saying it's all man made and it's carbon and it's these things and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you have other scientists who seem are all called quacks or whatever and they're like, we're not even nearly as warm as it was in the warming period, like the medieval warming period. That, that was way warmer than what we are right now, certainly. And what we really need to be worried about is when all of the, because these are cyclical periods and we go warm and then we go into an ice age and things get real bad. They get real bad. So I would encourage anybody watching this go go down that rabbit trail because it's important, it's important that you do. And I'm not a scientist, although I played one on TV quite well. And, but, you know, so don't take my word for it. But, but go check that out. But we're being told over and over and over again we're overpopulated. We're overpopulated. We need to decrease the population. We have to, we must. It's dire necessity that we must do this. Priming the pump. Priming the pump. I believe that a lot of that has to do with, we're not overpopulated right now. There's still plenty of space and there's plenty of jobs. But in five years, oh, we're going to be overpopulated. Not because there's too many people existing. There will be too many people existing with nothing to do with no employment. Which means the governments are all going to step in and be the heroes and give us all UBI universal basic income. Now some people are like, this is great. I don't have to, I don't have to go to a job. I can just sit and play video games and blah, blah. It's like, okay, in order to get your UBI guaranteed, you're gonna have to sign up for a program where you're trading away all of your freedom, all of your liberty, all of that's gone because the government's have to kind of have to keep track of you to make sure that you're spending it right and doing the things and potentially living in 15 minute cities where you don't travel too far because we got to keep that carbon footprint down. And also we don't have enough money for everybody to be traveling all over the world. So that wouldn't be fair. I mean, you could go, yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. But here's the thing. Once we get to a place, and this is going to happen very soon, once we get to a place where AI, particularly when married with robotics and how good those are going to get, and now we have a workforce that literally can do anything, not just white collar, blue collar, anything else, fight all of our wars, we won't need a nut. And that will be celebrated, by the way, right? We never have to send another man or woman into battle ever again. We'll never have to lose a life in a foreign war. Oh, wow, what a day. Well, all of those robots are going to replace all of our actual value in this world. You've all know Harari, who I don't agree with on a lot of things, and Hawaii, he's a very different kind of guy, but he's a brilliant guy. And he wrote Sapiens, which I could not put down. And then he, and he also wrote a follow up to that, Homo Deus, which I also could not put down. Homo deus is a really, really sober, sobering read. I highly recommend everybody read that book. In it he talks about where we're going with AI and this was years and years ago, and he talks about how the value of human beings all the way through human civilization was that we made all of the things, we did all of the work, we produced all of the, the, the, you know, the material goods and all the food and all of that. So we, we, we were needed our value. I mean, obviously as spiritual people, we believe that there's a value beyond all of that, a spiritual value. But barring that, our value in this world to our leaders, to the kings and emperors and everybody else, they didn't like us, they didn't want us around. The only reason they kept us around is because they needed somebody to, to, you know, till the fields and grow the food and f. Build the castles. And I can't possibly do that. I'm gonna need all these peons and serfs to do all that work. I can't just go and kill them all, even though I want to. Right. They needed us. And they needed us to fight all of their wars and defend us from other people coming and taking all of our stuff. So once AI in robots can do all of that and they don't need us anymore. Yeah, you better believe they all think that they're, well, overpopulated related. Because now they, the elite of the world, have to be paying for all this. Ubi, where does all the money come from? Do you think they want to pay for it forever? Do you think that they want, by the way, not just that, run this out. They've got 8 billion people on UBI. Nobody's got a job. Everyone's just got all the time on their hands to do whatever they want. How much sex is happening? Oh, my gosh, all the time. Exactly. Exactly. So how do they fix for that what is happening to birth rates right now, including what's happening to people's reproductive organs because of things like the COVID shot.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And guys, I know this sounds like crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. I'm just trying to look at what are obvious connection points and. And I go, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know if any of this is true. But to me, it makes a hell of a lot of sense if I put myself in their shoes, in the very malevolent shoes of people that have already shown themselves to not give two shits about the common man. They do not care. They don't care. They constantly poison our water, our food, our bodies. They poison the. I mean, everything. They will do anything and everything to make all the money. Me, I need more money. Any more money. They don't care about us. And they never have the track record.

[A]

My dad always talks about your track record.

[B]

The track record.

[A]

And the track record is crap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if we choose to ignore that. Okay, fine. With all of this out there, how do you not go crazy?

[B]

How.

[A]

How do you carry on with the everyday and not let these thoughts. Because of the track record. Because now it's been proven that we cannot trust. Whether it's the government, whether it's doctors, whether it's your neighbor. Now there's a lack of that. So how do we. You, we, all of us, you know, you prepare. You try to protect yourself. You have a child now. Those you love. What's that balance? What's that line? Because it's all right here and we have been living it.

[B]

So, I mean, honestly, the, the thing that gives me the most amount of solace in any of it is that I know that there is a God. And that God loves me and he loves you and he loves everyone in this room and he loves, by the way, all of those malevolent people. I mean, that, that, that's the reality. They're lost, they're lost in darkness. They're lost in their ego. They're lost in whatever. By the way, also, weird dark things and powers and principalities that are in these weird dark corners. And I mean, like the human trafficking and sex trafficking, like all that stuff, like I there.

[A]

It's overwhelming.

[B]

It's overwhelming. But I know that God gave me a call and vision in my life to build a place like Wildwood, which I've always believed is an ark. It is a place for me and as many people as I can fit into it to survive through whatever this fourth turning of this world is. And I mean, at the very least, it's an arc for us to survive the AI flood of content that's going to disrupt our entire industry. But also, like, I want to go have a farm where I grow my own food so I don't have to worry about what I'm being sold. Bill Gates's appeal, this, this new coding, have you heard about this? Yeah, it got approved to somehow. I, I think actually this has been circled around on the Internet, but I actually text, texted Bobby Kennedy about it because I was like, bro, what's going on here? Because I, I heard or I saw some, some article that it got approved so that it could still be on organic food and the food's still called organic. That aside, whatever, I don't know what, they're starting to inject vaccines into produce. That's part of the thing. Like, I, I, I, if I did, if I wasn't already building something like Wildwood to ensure a future of, of safety and healthy healthiness and, and, and health and happiness for my friends and family, I would be way more freaked out.

[A]

But you have a plan.

[B]

I have a plan. And I want that plan to be for as many people as I can. And I want to build multiple of these if I can. I don't know when all of this is going to go down or if it's going to go down, but, man, I've just, I've just always felt this deep call in my life that I Need to be prepared. We need to be prepared. I don't know what the future holds, but we need to be prepared. Have you ever read Brave New World? Aldous Huxley, Brave New World. Ooh, it's a fantastic book. Audiobook.

[A]

I need audio.

[B]

Okay. Can't do this anymore. Jeez. Listen, I have a hard enough time reading myself, so I get it, but Aldous Huxley wrote it in, like, 1932 or something. Way more accurate than 1984. Orson Welles, incredible book. But he wrote that book in the 50s, kind of in response to what was going on in Communist Russia and all of that stuff. And what. What would happen if that, you know, Iron Curtain and that whole kind of thing, you know, was put all over the world, and the censorships, the, you know, all that kind of darkness. That's not the future. The future that we're living through right now is absolutely what Aldous Huxley wrote about in Brave New World. And as a part of that, in the future, I mean, there's so many different things about it, but basically, you've got this kind of technocracy, like government and big industry is all kind of one. But we're not seemingly, you know, enslaved in all of this darkness and censorship. No, no, you get to. In fact, you're encouraged. Well, first of all, people are clones. No one has live birth anymore. Why do that? Why? Oh, that's painful and gross and. No, well, just, you know, create people out of, like, test tubes. And also we're going to genetically modify them so they only live to about 40 years old. And then we'll tell people, no, you don't want to live beyond 40. Anyway. 40 is, like, the pinnacle. It's all downhill after that. You get old and ugly and, oh, no, nobody wants that. And so people are programmed, since from being children, a couple of things. One, they're programmed to believe, you know, you're going to get to 40 and, oh, it's a great time, and your body will fall apart and you'll just die around 40 years old. Also, they are for, like, putting kids into sexual environments very early on as children, getting them hypersexualized so that they just want to go, and nobody has relationships so that you never have any more kids from, you know, any of that stuff. And they're also all given, like, a daily stipend of drugs called Soma, so they can all just check out. After their long day of work, they all just check out and they just go have sex, and then they die around 40. And isn't that Great, great. That was the future that all the Sucks talked about. And your protagonist in the book, I can't remember his name, but he's a part of, like, there's echelons of these humans and clones. And of course, at the very, very top, they live basically forever. The people who run the world, they've been genetically engineered to kind of run, live as long as they want. And then as you go down the list, people live less, you know, less and less and less, and they have less and less freedoms and stuff. But if you're the working class, it's great. Sex, drugs and rock and roll, it's great. And then I die for 40. Well, this one guy, he kind of, like, wakes up. He's kind of, like, seeing some things. He's like, what. What is going on? And he starts, like, digging into it, and he goes on this adventure to try and get to the truth. And he knows about. Because you're kind of hearing about these, like, the wastelands or like the savage lands where the savages live. And while you're reading the book, like, I read it in high school, and you're thinking to yourself, like, oh, you know, you're. You. You start imagining, like, you know, aboriginal peoples that are living, you know, in tents and wearing loincloths and whatever. That's what. That's the savages. Well, he takes, like, one of these, like, futuristic helicopters, and he goes to this reservation where the savages live. You know, the savages are. They're us. They're literally us. They're people living normal, regular lives who want to just grow their own food and have natural birth and, like, just be left out of that craziness that everyone is going to get pulled into. And they're going to get pulled in not through sticks, but through carrots. Going to go, come on, guys, this is great, isn't it? You don't. You never have to give birth again. We'll control the population. Don't worry about it. You don't need to do. Nobody wants to do that. You don't want to live beyond 40. Come on, it's beautiful. You get to be beautiful forever, and then you get to move on. And you could have drugs all the time and just have sex. That. That is what is they are going to do. It's not some crazy, dark, domineering force. It's just like the silver tongue that reels people in. And so to me, yeah, hands up, I'm a savage. I want to go live that life. I want to go get my hands in the soil and grow my own food and have clean water and clean air and like actual school for my kids that teaches them real things and not just nonsense and indoctrination or even if it's not indoctrination, what the hell are kids learning in school right now? What are, what are your kids getting degrees in? Like, they're. Those jobs that those degrees would be setting them up for are not going to exist.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Like, it's terrifying. It's terrifying. But we have got to address this. We've got to hit it head on. We've got to go. Okay, well, if that's the reality, then what do we do? And I've thought about all of it and the only thing I can think of is you got to go build an arc. You got to go build an ARC with a community of like minded people that want to go and have real community.

[A]

You run away from where we are right here in Los Angeles.

[B]

Well, certainly don't want to be in la.

[A]

Don't want to be in.

[B]

Definitely don't want to be in LA.

[A]

New York, LA, Chicago, all of those big metropolises and we see how quickly they have fallen. We're on the way. But especially since 2020, okay, you go to Texas, fine. I think you can from an educational perspective. You see all this and you say, okay, let's plan, let's help others. And then you do it with your heart, which you always have, with everything you've done, and especially when it's not just you, and especially when you have a baby. And Henson is now four months old.

[B]

Four months.

[A]

Yeah, four months. How much has he. And being a father changed your perspective on all this seriousness where, I mean, you were already all in. You were already committed to helping others and changing. But now, and I look at these pictures of you with him and you're the joy I have. I haven't seen that on you before. You've always been an incredibly happy, kind soul. But you can see it in the pictures now. Isn't it different when you have a child and now you, you want to go even deeper and further and take all those risks to protect him, to protect Maggie, to protect anyone. Possible.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's ironically, I mean, I guess it's added a little bit more fuel to my fire that he's now in the world. But God gave me this vision. I was 19 years old. Yeah, I knew I wanted to be a dad. I knew I was going to be a dad one day. I was gonna have a family. And I needed a place like Wildwood for my family, for my immediate family, my extended family, my friends, community, new people, people that get it, people that see it, people want to be a part of that. And over the last 25 years, the amount of people that I've talked to, the amount of people that sit around talking to their friends, being like, man, we should just, like, buy a bunch of land and like, you know, all live together. And everybody wants it. Everybody wants a community where they know and trust their neighbors again. Everybody wants clean food, air, water, all those things. It's just something I've always known. I've always known it. So I've him coming into the world. I was already planning for it.

[A]

Yeah, it was already planning for it. Is there. Is there more of a rush for you now, though, to say, no, okay, I'm out? Because obviously you have an incredible career and a ton of projects now going on while you're now raising a family. While you. Isn't it tough, right, like, where if he's not with you, if you guys, the three of you aren't together every day, I mean, it's. It is different. Is there not more of a rush to say, let's go quicker?

[B]

No. I mean, I've already been going as quick as I can. I felt this literally get out of this ticking clock. What do you mean?

[A]

To get out of this. This rat race to get out of Los Angeles? To get out?

[B]

No, but I've been out. I've been out. I wanted to get out of here even years before I did, but I. I got out when I did. And I'm trusting in the timing of.

[A]

How much are you here? I guess. How much you physically here?

[B]

I guess very often.

[A]

Okay. No. Okay.

[B]

No, but. No, I. Again, fortunately for me, I've already spent so much time thinking and praying on this and receiving God's wisdom and download about what it is that I need to build. Like, I felt a very. Like, Noah's calling on my life my whole life. I felt. I have felt a ticking clock and an urgency my whole life. And I couldn't. I couldn't really understand it. And then I started to really understand it. And now again with AI it, it's like, oh. Oh, that's that urgency. Oh, got it. That's why I felt this like, I gotta go. I gotta go. I got. It's like a. Like a racehorse. Just like. Right. It's like, I gotta go, guys, we gotta go and do this thing. There is no time to dawdle, so I'm already going as fast as I can. In fact, if anything, I've had to, like, relax and be like, really? God's got it. God's got me. I'm going to build what I can build when I build it, and that's what it's going to be, you know? But having Henson in the world, it makes it more real. It makes it more personal. Like, in a way, it was already personal, but, like, now I have a face and a life. That's what I mean to imagine in this. I mean, you know, I'm working with my architects designing these homes right now. 42 homes. To be in this first phase. I'm like, okay, where's Henson's room going to be?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so it makes it more personal in that way. But. But no, I mean, it's. It hasn't. The fire has been in me the whole time. There's no. There's no. And again, that's part of the reason why I feel more peace about this. And a lot of other people, too. A lot of other people are like, I don't know what to do. I'm like, well, I do. I don't know what. I don't know what to tell you. If you want to come and join me here, help me go raise $40 million so we can go at least build the first phase of what it is that we're doing, because I can't do it alone.

[A]

How do you see your career evolving?

[B]

Well, it's already evolving. I mean, you know, I've now said enough and been on, you know, stumped for Trump melt off and, you know, spoken about the vaccines and that the people that don't like me, they don't like me. But there's still plenty of people that do and more people that appreciate that I've spoken up. And so I've still got jobs. I mean, despite my best efforts, I'm still working in a very good way.

[A]

Has that been hard at all? The human side of you? You are such a sensitive, deep soul where there have been friendships lost. You're no different from millions of people, Right, who have had relationships and because of your opinions, because of things that you have said, and maybe they're louder because of who you are on your platform. Yeah, I've struggled with that a little. Feel much better now. How are you with that and losing people, friendships, opportunities?

[B]

I mean, I definitely have moments that. It really hits me. I've had moments where. I've had moments where I have sat and been like, did I, Did I Do the right thing. Did I step out of God's covering? Should I just kept my mouth shut and not even just about this? Like, should I have for the longest time been. Just kept my head down, not fought for my crew, not fought for my cast, not. Not been the fly in the ointment?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I know that I've been. I know that I've been a massive pain in the ass to a lot of my bosses, and I didn't want to be a pain in the ass. I was fighting for what I believed is right, because that's what I believe. I don't. I don't believe in neglecting the people that are your workforce. I don't.

[A]

Teammates, your team.

[B]

Yeah, I see. I believe that we are all on that team together. If you're put in a position of power, that's a responsibility. That's not this, oh, look at me, I'm better. It's like, no, no. With great power comes great responsibility. Remember in Spider man and the Bible, that is the way you need to be a servant leader, not a. You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna live in my awesome mansion with all this money and, you know, and maybe I'll give a few of these people some raises if they're lucky, and they really toe the line that. I hate that. I hate that demeanor, that paradigm, that mindset, and I rail against it. And so, yeah, there have been many opportunities where I could have probably had a different trajectory in my career overall if I would have just kissed the ring more, if I would have just played ball more, if I didn't. If I wasn't that flying the ointment and that squeaky wheel and then leading into all of this stuff and the political stuff and my take on the vaccines and whatever else. I. I've sat and I. And I. I've really, like, wept and been like, man, maybe I did. I. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe. Maybe this wasn't the best way to go about this. And. But A, I can't unring that bell, and B, it's who God made me. I don't know how to not. I mean, I. I think there's still ways to do it. In moments that I could have been more wise, moments that I could have been more diplomatic, you know, diplomacy, in some respects, I've been very good at. In other respects, I have not been very good.

[A]

But you're human.

[B]

Well, yes, but also, like, it's just that. It's that. It's. That it's that, you know, some people are really good at. Again, that more long game of like, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna play this a little bit, you know, and I'm. And I'm gonna. And I'm going to. And I'll win in the long run by being diplomatic and, you know, not. Not showing all of my cards right now, but I'm like, here's all my cards.

[A]

Like, I'm here.

[B]

We gotta do it. Like, why aren't we doing this? Why don't we have better leadership? What the hell is going on? And. And that, you know, I could. I could learn how to modulate that a little bit better, I think. And I have. I think I have modulated that. But then even if I modulate that, you know, I still find myself in these situations where I'm like, we're at the cliff and we have unfortunately only ever two options to vote for. And of those two options, one of them right off the cliff, the other one, maybe we don't go off the cliff. If we do, maybe it's later or with a little bit more preparation or a little bit more grace or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what the future is going to hold even with the leadership that we have right now. But it seemed to me very obvious that one of those was an absolute catastrophe. And the other one was like, maybe we got something here.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And maybe particularly because of Tulsi and Bobby and, And. And. And everybody else involved in that. And I made that, you know, clear to all, to a lot of people, and I tried to. And some of my friends understood that. Friends that voted very differently and think that I'm still, you know, kind of crazy for having believed or voted the way that I did, but still love me and didn't just go, but the people who. There were a good few people, people that I've known for decades and that I like. I was like, clearly they know my heart.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Clearly they know that even though we disagree on how to get here, we both want to get here. And also, this is the thing that always blows my mind. For literal decades, they were very vocal about their politics and about who we should vote for and anything else. And even though I thought whoever they're stumping for in a lot of those moments was an absolute train wreck, that would not do good for our country, I didn't go. I can't. I go, hey, that's. You believe that. I think you believe that because you're being lied to. And maybe I Believe what I believe because I'm being lied to. But can we both, can we both at least agree that maybe we're both being lied to? And then if that's the case, we're both at least trying to get here, but we're getting bad information? Like, if you think that I'm wrong, at least, at least give me the benefit of the doubt, that it's because I'm believing something that's not true. In the same way that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that I know your heart and I know you want good for the world, but I think you're believing a lie.

[A]

But you didn't walk away from them.

[B]

No, I didn't. Because I love them, because I care about them.

[A]

And that's the part where, yes, we're tough, we're strong, and we know that we are being called to say and do these things and to stand up for those who don't have the ability to do so. And for them to basically, yeah, put cast the heart in Zachary Levi aside and say that was more important.

[B]

Well, yes, and I know, listen, it breaks my heart and I mourn that a lot. And also I love them still. And I'm believing that. I believe, I hope that there will be illumination. I hope and believe that even despite the adage of it's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled, that perhaps one day they will be convinced that they were fooled. Or maybe I will. By the way, I have no, I have no ego in this. I don't. It's not that I want to be right. I just want to get to the destination. I want us all to get to the Holy Land. Not just people that agree with me, even people that didn't, even people that were actively fighting against me or anyone else. I don't want to leave them in the dark. I want to pull them into the light. That's the only way we can beat the darkness. We can't beat the fighting. The darkness is not like, you know, having this, this fight with it, like, to defeat the darkness means, I think looking at the darkness and being like, peace, I'm out. I'm going to turn the other way. And it's like one big game, a tug of tug of war. Everyone in the light just has to pick up their part of this long ass rope, we put it over our shoulder and we just slowly march the other direction. Don't even give the darkness your time. Just be like my friends who've disowned Me or whatever it is, it's like, oh, man, yes, that hurts. And I will love them still and I will hope that whether they're right or and I'm wrong or I'm right and they're wrong, that there is illumination and that there is wholeness once again between all of us. And I will always leave that open door. And I, and I, you know, hesitate even saying forgiving them because again, it's like they're operating on what they believe is the best information that they could find. I don't blame them for believing what were very well orchestrated lies and propaganda. And by the way, on a level now like this wouldn't have happened pre pandemic and pre Trump.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If this was Romney, Obama. And I was like, I, you know, I really like Mitt Romney. And they're like, no, it's all about Obama. Like, and I, and I was out saying, we should vote for Mitt Romney. I might have some people giving me some weird looks and like, I can't believe you voted for that guy or whatever. But I'll see you next, you know, Friday at the game night. Yeah, fine. But only in this last 10, 12 years have we seen this insane, just amping up of you must hate the other side. The propaganda of anyone who questions the vaccine. They're the enemy. They're, they're killing people. And the lies that are just being just broadcast over CNN and MSNBC and CNBC and even the, a lot of the regular networks, again, by journalists who they themselves don't realize they're being mouthpieces of producers that don't know that they're.

[A]

Being until they do and continue to choose because of how deep you're in and the scary things that do come when you go against maybe, yeah, I do think through some of that pain, good can come as usual. Right. And I don't know about you, but I have found that saying goodbye, being forced, I guess in many ways to say goodbye to certain people, certain relationships, you can celebrate what we had, celebrate all those years and that season and be sad for the end of it, but be grateful for what was. And we're also stretched for time. I mean, I feel terrible sometimes about not having time for the people I do love, family, close, close friends, much less the ones that I don't. The circle has gotten smaller and in some ways it's, it's easier and it is what it's really supposed to be. I wrote this down because I didn't want to screw up the quote and I believe it's from the Bible. And you made it yours a little bit. Maybe it's verbatim. I don't know, what is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul in the process? And when you put that out there on social media, like it coming from you in particular, hit me so hard, especially as a pleaser for the majority of my life. It's a disease. I've almost kicked. We're just about there.

[B]

It's a tough one.

[A]

Yeah. And when we're in this industry where you need to be liked, this is so subjective. And if this producer doesn't like you, you're not getting that opportunity, plain and simple. It's safer to go along with it. But what happens to that soul can be pretty dark. That, to me, was huge. And I hope you know, and I'm sure you heard how much reminding people of that or enlightening them with that helped and was a reminder not to give up, not to change who you are, even if it's safer.

[B]

Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that with me. And I will say that, you know, this life is that fast at the end of the day, and we're not here to become trillionaires. Wealth is fleeting. It all goes away. I mean, quite literally. I mean, to my point, I can't even remember his name right now. But I actually, I use this as an example often. If you go look at just Google, and I encourage anybody watching this or listening to this, do this, go Google the top 10 wealthiest people that ever lived. You've never heard of them. It doesn't matter. You will be forgotten. Even you might be, you know, in some history books, you might pop up as a footnote or something. But even like the most wealthy famous people right now, a hundred years from now, if AI hasn't. Robots haven't destroyed us all, like, like Skynet and Terminator, like, even if we continue on as a species, you're still going to get forgotten. So what, what are you doing? You know, also biblically, like, you know, you don't. You don't store up your treasures here where the moth can eat it and it can rot and all that. You store your treasures in heaven. What does that mean? To go live a life of service, to go live a life of sacrifice. To go live a life where you're standing up for what is right, what is true. Even if we disagree on what that might be. Go do that. Go do. Go stand up for what is right and true. True. Go do that. If we're just constantly in A state of self preservation because, oh, I don't want to lose what I got. I don't want to not make that money. I got to make that bag. It's so gross. And we in the States, where it's almost the worst, we live in such a materialistic, commercialized, propagandized, like, like, you know, oh, I need this and I need that. Oh, you got those new Jordans or you got that Lambo and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Give me a break. It's so gross. If you are judging your value in this world based on the car that you drive or the shoes that you wear or whatever, like, are you in for a rude awakening? That is a waste of your time. Go and invest your time, your time, treasure and talent into genuinely trying to make the world a better place. And that requires sacrifice. It requires sacrifice. The only reason why we're able to sit here and have this podcast right now was because hundreds of thousands of people have died in wars fighting for freedom, fighting for democracy. Now, one could argue that a lot of those people died in vain because a lot of the wars, I agree, were not for those purposes. They were, in fact, for the military industrial complex. And that's sad. That's sad that we were able to convince so many wonderful souls, men and women in uniform, who served this country under the false pretense that, oh, we got to go do this, because we're helping this country and we're helping freedom and we're helping to safeguard ours and all that stuff. I think there's a lot of the things that we've got involved in that, quite frankly, had nothing to do with that, but it didn't change those people's motivation. They believed that. They believed that what they were doing was because. And they sacrificed their lives in order to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what does it mean if I go out and, you know, we. We have far too much self preservation. Which is not to say that we shouldn't be wise and not just go make stupid decisions and walk out into oncoming traffic, obviously. But when it comes to big moments in our life where you're, you know, when Tulsi called me and she goes, do you want to go and moderate this thing with me and Bobby? It's like, well, that's really cross. That's going to. I'm going to be crossing the Rubicon.

[A]

This is.

[B]

This is it. Right. But I'm like, But I was praying and praying that God would give me an opportunity to do something that would help to move us forward and out of the corruption and out of the darkness and hopefully, you know, do something that was positive in this world. And I thought, well, I think this could be a part of that. Anyway.

[A]

It was a huge turning point. That's what it felt like when you.

[B]

I mean, for all of us. For all of us.

[A]

No, but when you took that step because of where you live in Hollywood, that was big. Have you had people quietly come up, Right. You and, like, within the industry?

[B]

Oh, yeah. And I wish that. I mean, listen, I've told. And I tell all of them. Thank you. They. Because all. Almost all of them tell me. Because it's quietly. They're like, I wish I could say something. I go, you can, you can. But you have to go with where God leads you. This is where God led me. You'll know the time. And that time might be soon, that might be later, I don't know. But I don't. I don't. I don't, you know, begrudge anybody who hasn't. Though I do wish that everyone would just come out. I wish that everyone. Because if the amount of people that actually voted for Trump in this industry actually came out and raised their hand, it would blow people's minds. It would blow this industry's mind.

[A]

Give me a percentage.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Of everyone that works in this industry.

[A]

Of the A Listers, even.

[B]

Oh, A Listers. Oh, I don't know.

[A]

I'm not people that we would.

[B]

I don't. Well, I don't really. I've never been a part of that cool kids club. I mean, I was like, that's why I love you. I don't know. I would say, honestly, though, I would say of A Listers, I would say probably 25 of a listers probably voted for.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

Yeah. But.

[A]

But again, producers and everybody else, they.

[B]

Did it holding their nose.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And a lot of them did it because of Bobby, to be honest. Because a lot of people were like, A lot of people are. Have woken up because of COVID because of their own children, because of health and wellness. Like, those weren't really Trump's platform. That was Bobby's platform. So I know quite a few A Listers then, people that were very pro Bobby, and then once Bobby joined Trump, they were in a conundrum. They're like, I don't know what to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I know that the most important thing I can be voting for right now is making sure that we do make America healthy again. And also, let's get out of these foreign wars. And let's make sure that we're taking steps to clean up the corruption and secure our border, for God's sake. Like, even people that are pro immigration. I'm pro immigration. I'm just not pro illegal immigration. I'm actually also pro. If you have immigrated here illegally, but you've been here and you've been an honorable citizen and you've been working your butt off and you actually have been paying back into the system, I do think that there should be some amnesty program. There should be something like that. Like, but if you're a criminal, like, aside from the crime of coming over here, but you're here and you're just, like, shitting on this country and like, whatever. Like, I don't care about this place. I'm going to do whatever I want. I'm going to rape and murder and steal and do all of the things. No, no, sorry, you're out. There should be. No, there's no amnesty for that. But there. But the problem is, is that all of that, if you don't have a tighter border, like, we gotta. We gotta stop the bleeding before we fix whatever's creating.

[A]

That's what's happened. And now it's incredible.

[B]

It's much better. It's much better. So a lot of people, a lot of a listers, did care about these things and saw that on the ballot. Listen, there's one person. I'm gonna hold my nose while I do it, and I will never tell anyone that I did it. In fact, I'll be at a cocktail party and be like, oh, my girl. Coming up. But they didn't. Because they were like, they're. But they also, you know, they.

[A]

But what you say to them when they say, I just can't. You can. And I will respect your choice.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But we all can. We all have that ability. And I think the thing that is so underappreciated is that when you do. When you do step out there, it's a tough decision. Sometimes it's by accident. Oops, shouldn't have sent that tweet. We've all been there. But when you do, and you stand tall on it, man, there's some beauty that comes with it. And so many people that you will never meet who you are, helping by just standing up and being true to yourself, because that's what we preach. Be who you are. Be true to yourselves. You know, you want to be a.

[B]

Unless you vote for Trump.

[A]

Unless you vote for Trump. But I liken it to some of the stuff that my kids have gone through and at schools and how you have to, with all the gender crap and the affirmation of this and that. So, oh, you're a girl today and a boy tomorrow and a cat on Thursday, like, that stuff's fine, right? And we're gonna go along with that, but not this. So I just think. I try to encourage people who say things to me too. And it's very different on a lesser level than you, for sure. But, like, okay, I was scared and sometimes still am, but every single day I found I've been blessed enough to wake up the next morning and keep going. And maybe along the way with men and women's sports and that whole drama, maybe along the way, help someone else who was afraid because it is fearful. It is out there, and it is very real. There are true risks. You. I gotta get you out of here. I know. You need to eat. You're working in the world.

[B]

We both do. We all need to eat.

[A]

Okay, fine. They all. All they think about is food. I can't. I have always been so appreciative of your vulnerability with. With your upbringing, with your relationship with your mother, with your father, and in awe because of that. You've spoken deeply and with your beautiful book that you wrote that I listened to abusive moments verbally with your mother, et cetera. And somehow you have chosen. It is a choice to really look at things glass half full and positive. Optimist versus pessimist. And a tough relationship with your father as well, a lot with your mental health. To what do you attribute the ability to not take all that with you and let it affect you to the level of not being able to function? Because many people have not been able to based on major trauma. And you lived a lot of that trauma. What is it that has pulled you through?

[B]

I mean, God as an orchestrator of all things, Right? And the wisdom and the lessons that I've continued to learn because of God, the friends and family that I've been surrounded by who have supported me and believed in me and lifted me up and held me accountable, all of those things. But I would say that, you know, when you say it's a choice, I mean, yes, I guess everything is a choice. But I choose to. I choose to believe what I believe is fact and what is fact. So it's neither to me. It's neither pessimistic or optimistic. It's actually kind of realistic. And the fact is, we are all products of our environment, everyone. So you can either choose to not accept that fact and be angry And. And I was. For a long time, I didn't realize how angry I was and how much unforgiveness I held toward my mom and my dad. But once I went to therapy, that saved my life and started to learn about how much disrespect and hate I was showing myself, lack of self love. And with therapists trying to teach me and remind me, like, Zach, like, you got to give yourself a break. You're doing the best that you can with the tools that you have, right? So how can I. And this was a big breakthrough for me because, like, how can that be true of me without that also being true of my mom and also my dad and everyone else? And again, this doesn't absolve anyone of their bad behavior. It doesn't somehow say, well, it didn't happen, or there aren't consequences or anything else. But it allows us to look at the child of God in every single person, including ourselves, and say, oh, man, forgiveness, forgiveness, mercy, grace. Like, why are these things so important in scripture? And yet why do so many Christians not practice them? Why do so many Christians have so much anger towards so many other people now? And not just Christians, sure, people in general, but Christians are the ones that have the manuscript that's constantly talking about love and grace and mercy and forgiveness where. What is God? What was Jesus talking about in the. I think Jesus understood this. Like, we've got to be able to look at the child and everyone and recognize that this person. I mean, that the people that were literally crucifying him, forgive them. They know not what they do. What does that mean? Clearly, they knew what they were doing. They were killing a man on a cross. But they didn't know. They thought they were following orders. They thought they were doing. The Jews thought, well, this guy is disrupting all of the things that you. We are products of our environment. The sooner you can wrap your head around that and the sooner you can recognize that holding on to unforgiveness is like drinking poison, hoping that the other person will die. That's fact. It's not opinion. So I look at that and I go, well, I can either choose to believe. To choose to believe that fact, or I can go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to be angry with this person more. I want to hold on to this. I want to be angry inside. I want to. That horrible. No, no. That's why I don't look at my parents. That's why I don't look at any of the people that have turned their back on me. Even the people that, I mean, God did. The horrible things that people send me online, the horrible. And I'm sure you've seen some of that stuff, too. I, I hope that you die. I hope your child dies of sids. Like, like, whoa, wow. And I, I, I take it, I see it, and I just go, they're so lost. I feel bad for them. I don't feel bad for me. I don't feel bad for me that this person is so lost that they also has nothing better to do with their time than to go onto social media and go send a message to somebody they don't even follow to want to ruin my day, as if they think that's ruining my day. Guys, wake up. You're not. If anything, you're getting another prayer warrior. I'm praying for you. How does that make you feel? I just. I can't. I can't hold on to any of that ever, anymore. I release my mom. I release my dad. I release anyone who wishes me ill because they're lost. And I've been lost plenty of times in my life. I've hurt so many people in my life in my selfishness, in my ego, in my unawareness, in my unhealedness. And I can only hope that they see me in that same way, that they can reciprocate that and go, man, he was doing the best that he could. He was doing the best that he could. So I, I, I can only, I can only come at it from that place. And, man, it's been so freeing. It's been so freeing. I mean, I get emotional because I just want everybody to understand this. Like, the sooner we can come to a place where we can just hold each other and go, like, man, you really fucked me up. But I understand that. And when I say this, hear me, it wasn't your fault. Yes, it's your responsibility. Yes, you were the conduit of that generational trauma that came down for how many generations that landed and punched me in the face with whatever you did to me? But the reality is you punched me because you got punched by your dad, who got punched by his dad, who got punched by his dad, who got punched by his dad, who got punched by how far back you want to go? That's where the fault is. And it just never got healed all the way down. So we want to be angry at somebody, be angry at that person. But I have even sympathy and empathy for them because they were still a product of whatever happened to them that started this domino effect. All the way down to right now, present day, where I got knocked in the face. And yes, by the way, I'm not saying, like, repress your angers or your emotions and feelings. We gotta feel them, metabolize them, be angry with this person, what the hell? Why did you punch me? And they might not even be sorry about it or whatever it is, but then eventually, you got to be like, oh, okay, I gotta let that go. That is just. That is toxicity. That's gonna stay in me. And listen, I'm really good at it. I'm really bad at it when it comes to bad drivers. But everybody else. It's actually one of the jokes I'm getting. I'm gonna get back into stand up. I did stand up years ago, and I love stand up so much, and I want to get back into it. But one of them is, I love everybody, but I hate bad drivers because I really do. Bad drivers. To me, you're either a bad driver because you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car because you are completely unaware, or you are very much not unaware and you just think the road's mine.

[A]

You're in the wrong town.

[B]

Oh, man. Well, every town's wrong. This is one of the things I can't understand. Every single city's like, oh, no, we got the worst drivers. Like, no, they're everywhere. They're everywhere.

[A]

It's just when you're on top of.

[B]

Each other like this, it's just unaware people that don't understand that you don't drive the, the speed limit and the fast lane. The fast lane is the worst for me. If you're camped there he goes.

[A]

I cannot.

[B]

I love that we went from something so emotional like, let me tell you, I hate drivers. If you're in the left lane, any left lane, and you see any cars passing you on your right, you're in the wrong lane. Yes, you're in the wrong lane. Just get over it. One, two. How. Just get off the road entirely.

[A]

Get out of the.

[B]

Don't need to be on the road.

[A]

Yes. Okay, 100% agree. Final question. Henson, what is your biggest hope for your little boy?

[B]

Somebody asked me this recently. Actually, my biggest hope for Henson is that he not. Not that I would provide a life for him that, you know, snowplow parent. I don't, I don't want to take out every hardship. I don't want to take out every challenge. I, I, we need it. We need to be challenged, and we need hardships. But that he wouldn't have to deal with the hardships that I had to deal with. The. I don't ever. I don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want him to ever question how much I love him. I don't ever want him to ever feel like he doesn't have a safe place to go. Regard. Regardless of what he's done. I don't care. I don't care. I will always hold him accountable. I will always make sure that he understands that he's learning the lesson from whatever he's done. If he went so far and so off the rails that even killed somebody, I would be like, I'm glad you came to me. I'm glad you told me. We're going to the police. You are going to confess to this and you are going to have to accept whatever punishment comes from this. And that is going to be one of the hardest things you will ever go through. And God forbid that is ever anything that ever something close to what he gets into. But even in that, I will make sure that he knows I love him, that I love him. Because as a kid, I. I know my parents loved me. And now I reflect on it a lot. I know that they were doing their best, but in the moment, I didn't feel that. I felt very, very abandoned and very lost and very, you know, neglected in all of those types of things because my mom and my stepdad struggled. You know, they struggled in their own mental health. And my dad was gone and he struggled in the way that he struggled. And so I don't ever want him to ever question any of that. I want him to have a life where all of his needs are certainly taken care of and satiated so much that he doesn't really think about wants. I don't want a kid who's materialistic. I want a kid who's like about experiences and having those experiences with people that he loves and doing good in this world and being a leader to the point where sometimes he will have to sacrifice and recognizing that that is a part of being a human being and being a man, you know, being man and a woman. But also I think that there's something specifically about. About being a warrior, a man, someone who's willing to put their life on the line and to sacrifice and to stand up for people. That's what we're called to do. And somebody who loves somebody he loves. And hopefully I can model that for him. Yeah, that's what I want for him.

[A]

No doubt in my mind. You have given that to strangers, you've given that to friends. That you see, once every couple of years, you are so full of love, and it's striking. He is a lucky, blessed little boy. To have you.

[B]

He is. Yeah.

[A]

To have you. He is.

[B]

You hear that, Henson? He's going to listen to this one. Yes.

[A]

Roll this back, Sage teenager.

[B]

Listen to Sage. You're lucky.

[A]

Thank you. Come over here.

[B]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[A]

And I hope that you enjoy every moment, even the tough ones, because those are. You're in. Oh, yeah, you're in it now. When they're infants and they're not eating right, and then when they're teenagers, the problems just get bigger, different. But what a blessing. I'm so glad you're finally a daddy.

[B]

Thanks. Me too.

[A]

You're not done, right?

[B]

I don't think so. Listen, I mean, you have a whole farm you're creating. I joke around with Maggie and I'll be like, so. But number two, and she's like, you know, she's. We're only four months out, so.

[A]

Four months old and you're talking about.

[B]

But she just the other day did. Did bring up, you know, she like, kind of absentmindedly mentioned another kid. I was like, oh, I'm born. All of a sudden, she's like, oh, wait a minute. I mean, you know, well, you know, someday, But. Someday. But, yeah, I mean, I. The idea has always been to have a few children. I don't know how many, however many God blesses us with and that we're blessed to have the finances and whatnot, to be able to. To take care of and. And. But yeah, I've just always been a dad. Ever since I was a kid, I knew that I was going to be a dad. I wanted to be a dad. I love being a dad. And it is not. It's not always easy. You know, the days are long and the years are short, and every phase of their life is going to go by that fast. And on the other side of it, you're going to wish you had a little bit more of it. And so I remind myself of that all the time. Right now he's teething and. And it's hard. You know, he's really fussy and he's not sleeping well and he's uncomfortable. But I know that that's, you know, in a few months time, that won't be that anymore.

[A]

You won't even remember.

[B]

There'll be something else.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we'll go through that. But all of it's refining me as a man and as a father and. And also all of it reminds me to reflect on God's love for me, right? Like, if I love him that much, oh, my gosh, how much does God love me and all of us? So that's powerful stuff. Having kids is powerful stuff. I recommend it to everybody.

[A]

I am so glad that you are part of the coolest club there is. But thank you. And thank you for spreading that love, even when it's been tough, even to people who sometimes feels like they don't deserve it, but they do. And you are a blessing to us all.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

We finally did it.

[A]

You can take your socks off now if you want.

[B]

Thank I. You can see me fitzing in here. We did it, guys. We did the cozy sock thing. Because everybody does the cozy sock thing.

[A]

Can you spell schmitzing?

[B]

Schwitzing.

[A]

You can't stop being dramat.