3 Secrets To Building Deep & Meaningful Relationships

Summary

Podcast Summary: The School of Greatness – Episode "3 Secrets To Building Deep & Meaningful Relationships"

Episode Information:

• Title: 3 Secrets To Building Deep & Meaningful Relationships
• Host: Lewis Howes
• Description: In this enlightening episode, Lewis Howes engages with renowned relationship experts Esther Perel, Jay Shetty, and Dr. Joe Dispenza to uncover the secrets behind cultivating deep and meaningful relationships. The discussion delves into the dynamics of toxic versus conscious love, the importance of self-awareness, effective communication, and the role of personal growth in fostering lasting connections.
• Release Date: February 14, 2025

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1. Introduction to Relationship Dynamics

The episode begins with Lewis Howes introducing the topic of building deep and meaningful relationships. He emphasizes the significance of understanding the underlying dynamics that contribute to both the success and pitfalls of romantic partnerships.

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2. Toxic Love vs. Conscious Love

Esther Perel elaborates on the distinction between toxic love and conscious love, providing foundational insights into relationship health.

• Toxic Love: Defined as a relationship where both partners use the partnership solely to serve their individual needs, leading to competition rather than collaboration.

  Esther Perel: "Toxic love is where both people are working independently to use the relationship to serve their own needs. That's toxic love."
  [03:11]

• Conscious Love: Characterized by mutual self-care, where both individuals take responsibility for their own well-being, thereby contributing positively to the relationship.

  Esther Perel: "Conscious love is where both people independently take care of themselves so they can bring their best self to each other."
  [03:11]

Key Takeaway: Transitioning from toxic to conscious love involves fostering self-awareness and promoting mutual growth within the relationship.

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3. Common Pitfalls in Relationships

Esther Perel identifies four subtle yet harmful behaviors that can undermine relationships:

a. Control

Often disguised as care, control manifests when one partner attempts to dictate the other's actions, preferences, or lifestyle choices.

Esther Perel: "Control in a relationship can often look like care, but deep down, you're doing it because you want to control the other person."
[10:31]

Implication: Such behavior erodes trust and autonomy, creating an unhealthy power dynamic.

b. Comparison

Comparing one's partner to others, whether casually or implicitly, can lead to feelings of inadequacy and resentment.

Esther Perel: "Comparison is the number one thing you can do to make your partner feel devalued and unlovable."
[13:46]

Implication: This undermines self-esteem and fosters negative emotions within the relationship.

c. Complaining to Others

Venturing grievances about a partner to family or friends often perpetuates negativity and strains external relationships.

Esther Perel: "Complaining about your partner to your family... creates a loop... it also seeps into what we spot in our partner."
[14:51]

Implication: This behavior can validate negative perceptions and hinder constructive communication between partners.

d. Criticism

Persistent criticism diminishes a partner's sense of worth and fosters emotional distance.

Esther Perel: "Criticism increases distance in a relationship. It pushes someone so far away because you've made them feel unworthy, unwanted, and not enough."
[16:16]

Implication: Such negativity can erode the foundational trust and affection in the relationship.

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4. The Role of Self-Love and Personal Growth

Lewis Howes underscores the importance of emotional responsibility and personal accountability in nurturing conscious love.

Lewis Howes: "Conscious love is also wanting to take emotional responsibility and accountability for emotions, as opposed to saying, 'you made me feel this way.'"
[07:12]

Esther Perel echoes this sentiment by stressing that self-care enhances the ability to contribute positively to a partnership.

Esther Perel: "Always take care of yourself so you can take care of your partner, so you can take care of your kids."
[31:06]

Key Takeaway: Personal well-being and growth are integral to fostering healthy and enduring relationships.

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5. Building Relationship Agreements and Principles

Esther Perel advocates for the establishment of clear agreements, boundaries, and principles to solidify conscious love within relationships.

Esther Perel: "A conscious relationship is one that is built on a foundation of healthy agreements."
[04:31]

Practical Advice: Couples are encouraged to collaboratively develop a list of relationship rules tailored to their unique dynamics, promoting mutual respect and understanding.

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6. The Power of Forgiveness and Letting Go

Jay Shetty introduces the concept of forgiveness as a crucial element in overcoming past hurts and fostering emotional freedom within relationships.

Jay Shetty: "If you forgive, you'll never have love. The love that we withhold is the pain that we experience lifetime after lifetime."
[47:54]

Esther Perel concurs, highlighting that releasing resentment allows individuals to move forward without being anchored to past traumas.

Esther Perel: "You're no longer connected to [the past]. You free that person and your relationship changes."
[53:37]

Key Takeaway: Forgiveness is not about condoning past actions but about liberating oneself from lingering negative emotions to embrace healthier relationships.

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7. Practical Steps for Cultivating Meaningful Relationships

Esther Perel suggests actionable strategies for individuals seeking to enhance their relationships:

a. Conducting a Relationship Audit

Partners are encouraged to introspectively assess how frequently they engage in harmful behaviors such as complaining, comparing, criticizing, or exerting control.

Esther Perel: "If you're in a relationship, I want you to do an audit... think about how often you complain, compare, criticize, or try to control."
[17:07]

b. Prioritizing Values and Goals

Understanding and aligning personal values and goals is essential for harmonious relationships.

Esther Perel: "My definition of love is when you like someone's personality, when you respect their values and you're committed to helping them towards their goals."
[20:31]

Lewis Howes shares a personal anecdote about prioritizing health and purpose in relationships, underscoring the importance of transparent communication about one's values.

Lewis Howes: "Number one is I value my health... number two priority number two is my purpose, my mission..."
[25:02]

c. Embracing Humor and Playfulness

Dr. Joe Dispenza emphasizes the role of humor and play in maintaining relationship vitality, suggesting that couples who can laugh together navigate challenges more effectively.

Dr. Joe Dispenza: "Humor is essential... it creates complicity and invites a new possibility."
[75:57]

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8. Overcoming Resentment and Emotional Baggage

The conversation further explores the challenge of releasing resentment and emotional baggage from past relationships.

Jay Shetty: "The love that we withhold is the pain that we experience lifetime after lifetime."
[47:54]

Esther Perel advises focusing on personal growth and understanding one's role in past dynamics to prevent carrying forward unresolved emotions.

Dr. Joe Dispenza: "What role did you play? What did you see that you didn't want to pay attention to?"
[66:49]

Key Takeaway: Letting go of resentment involves self-reflection, emotional regulation, and a commitment to personal healing, which in turn fosters healthier future relationships.

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9. Conclusion and Final Insights

The episode wraps up with a synthesis of the discussed themes, reinforcing the importance of self-love, conscious communication, and mutual growth in building meaningful relationships.

Esther Perel reiterates the necessity of understanding one's values and goals, while Jay Shetty highlights the transformative power of forgiveness and emotional mastery.

Lewis Howes encourages listeners to actively implement these insights to cultivate relationships that are not only enduring but also deeply fulfilling.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

1. Esther Perel: "Toxic love is where both people are working independently to use the relationship to serve their own needs. That's toxic love."
   [03:11]

2. Lewis Howes: "Conscious love is also wanting to take emotional responsibility and accountability for emotions, as opposed to saying, 'you made me feel this way.'"
   [07:12]

3. Esther Perel: "Criticism increases distance in a relationship. It pushes someone so far away because you've made them feel unworthy, unwanted, and not enough."
   [16:16]

4. Jay Shetty: "The love that we withhold is the pain that we experience lifetime after lifetime."
   [47:54]

5. Dr. Joe Dispenza: "Humor is essential... it creates complicity and invites a new possibility."
   [75:57]

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode of The School of Greatness offers profound insights into the mechanics of building and maintaining deep, meaningful relationships. By distinguishing between toxic and conscious love, recognizing and mitigating common relational pitfalls, and prioritizing personal growth and effective communication, individuals can cultivate partnerships that are both resilient and enriching. The collaborative wisdom of Esther Perel, Jay Shetty, and Dr. Joe Dispenza serves as a valuable guide for listeners aspiring to unlock their inner greatness through the power of authentic connections.

Transcript

[Lewis Howes]

There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book Make Money Easy and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family. Bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston, we're going to Nashville. Then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to Lewishouse.com tour again. Bring everyone you know. If you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life and you want to see a massive guest live on the School of Greatness show, get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there. Did you know Toyota has an all electric SUV? It's called the BZ4X and it's a secret worth sharing. Skip gas stations and feel the thrill of electric driving from a brand you can trust. The BZ4X features smart tech that keeps you connected and its modern design helps you stand out in the right ways. It's the excitement of a Toyota all electric powertrain combined with the reliability you'd expect. It's all electric and it's all real. The Toyota BZ4X. Learn [e-mail] Toyota let's go places the School of Greatness is proudly sponsored by Ameca Insurance. As Amica says, empathy is our best policy. That's why they'll go above and beyond to tailor your insurance coverage to best fit your needs. Whether you're on the road, at home or traveling along life's journey, their friendly and knowledgeable representatives will work with you to ensure you have the right coverage in place. Amica will provide you with peace of mind. Go to amica.com and get a quote today. Westin Hotels and Resorts are designed with your well being in mind. With more than 200 destinations around the world, Westin Hotels makes it possible to keep up with your wellness routine while traveling.

[Jay Shetty]

Traveling.

[Lewis Howes]

And if there's one thing I've learned from being on the go all the time, it's how important it is to prioritize quality sleep no matter where you are. With signature amenities and offerings that help you move well, eat well and sleep well, Westin Hotels makes travel an opportunity to enhance your well being. Look forward to the rest with restorative sleep in Westin's iconic heavenly bed. Find Wellness at Weston, one of 30 extraordinary hotel brands in the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio. I'm curious, what is the difference between toxic love and conscious love? Because I feel like a lot of people get into relationships based on a wound and it causes toxic chemicals that might feel like love, but then they unwind after six months, a year, two years, and it feels like than it's not conscious love that they got into it from a chemical romance.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah, Wounded.

[Lewis Howes]

As opposed to conscious healing. Integrating that into. In a relationship. What is the difference between toxic love and conscious love?

[Esther Perel]

Toxic love is where both people are working independently to use the relationship to serve their own needs. That's toxic love. And conscious love is where both people independently take care of themselves so they can bring their best self to each other. And where this often goes wrong is that toxic love turns into a competition. Toxic love now is who's doing more for each other, who gives more love to each other, who does more work around the house. You turn the whole thing into a competition, which is not teamwork. And conscious love is not saying you're the selfless one. It's you're making agreements. I think that's the mistake that love was constantly. Conscious love was always like, be selfless. Love more than the other person, give more. That's not healthy either. What's healthy is we're actually going to create boundaries. We're actually going to create agreements. We're actually going to create principles, going to create rules. The reason why I called the book Eight Rules of Love is my hope that it will inspire other couples to create their own list of rules in their own relationship. A conscious relationship is one that is built on a foundation of healthy agreements.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

Toxic love is. It's interesting when you look at the word toxic as well.

[Lewis Howes]

Tell me.

[Esther Perel]

So toxic love is when your trauma is the oxygen for your relationship. Right. If you think about the word like the idea that your trauma is what you're breathing into the relationship. Right. You're just breathing your trauma into the relationship. So you bring all your baggage, all your insecurities, and you're somehow expecting the other person to inhale it all and then figure out how to respond and react. Whereas a conscious relationship is saying that I have these things, I'm trying to heal them. I'm going to make my partner aware of what I'm healing because I'm not fully healed.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

And now that they're aware and I'm working on it, we can also work on it together. So I think we've also had this unhealthy idea of conscious love being you're Fully healed, and then you come. That's not true. It's a journey. And so. But the thing about the journey is, are you working on yourself? Have you communicated to your partner what you're working on so that they can be aware? And thirdly, have you found a way to get support? I had a friend whose partner was addicted to porn, and they came up to me and they were saying that their partner feels shameful and guilty and wants to work on it. And I said, you have two choices. You can either leave them because you don't believe them and this affects you negatively, which it was. Or you can stay with them and support them through their journey because they want to change. It's not that you're forcing them and.

[Lewis Howes]

They'Re honest about it, they're coming to you about it.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly. They're vulnerable. They're open about it, they're honest about it. And what I found in that scenario was that that person was able to support their partner, and now they have a really healthy relationship. But the thing is that we can't. Also, a toxic relationship is also when you use someone's trauma against them. So someone's been vulnerable with you about what they're struggling with, and now you use it as ammunition in an argument to shoot them down.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

And so when people are vulnerable with you and they're honest with you and they're transparent with you, don't use that against them. Because basically you're saying to them, don't be honest with me. And I think that's this really interesting thing. We all say, I want someone who's honest. But then when someone says something honest that's uncomfortable, we say, no, no, no, I don't want your honesty, or, I don't like that. And I think you push the other person away.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

And so, yes, if it's really. If they share something that's really not aligned with your values, of course you can leave and move on. But chances are, if they're opening up about a journey they're on, it's worth giving it an opportunity to support them if they're serious about it.

[Lewis Howes]

I love your definition of toxic love versus conscious love. And when I was hearing you say this, I was thinking that conscious love is also wanting to take emotional responsibility and accountability for emotions, as opposed to saying, you made me feel this way. You said this. You didn't do this, and it made me explode on you. It's having the emotional responsibility to. To manage it. And if you aren't good at managing it, saying, I take Full accountability. And I'm working on that healing journey. And I think that responsibility and accountability adds to the potential growth for conscious love.

[Esther Perel]

I love that. That's such a great point. It's such a great question, too, because you also realize that we have so many flawed views of conscious love, too.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

And so people always think, like, oh, toxic love, that's the worst. You could actually be doing pseudo conscious love. And that's even worse sometimes.

[Lewis Howes]

What does that mean? Like, a spiritual bypass to conscious love.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

Or like you're practicing it in a really superficial way. Like, it's conscious in the language and the way you talk about it, but you're doing unhealthy things. Like, for example, you could think you're in conscious love, but you can't deal with someone's honesty. You think you're in conscious love, but you don't feel comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. You think, oh, yeah, we just talk about good stuff and everything's positive all the time. And we never.

[Lewis Howes]

We never argue.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah, we never argue. And it's like, well, no, it's important to have uncomfortable conversations. And so I find that a lot of couples struggle with having these uncomfortable conversations. We didn't get into fight styles, but we'll get there whenever you want. Because that question was so good. That question was so good. And don't feel I'm saying this as a friend now, like, off camera in the sense of, like, this is so good, bro. Like, this is an interview that I haven't done with anyone because it's not about the book, and we're getting into it. So it's like, don't feel any pressure to go into the, like.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

The stuff we're talking about is amazing. Yeah, Yeah. I just. Reiterating as a friend. Yeah, yeah. It's so good.

[Lewis Howes]

So what were you gonna say, though? You were saying something.

[Esther Perel]

I was. I was just saying that this superficial idea of conscious love becomes really practiced as a deeper love. So. So, yeah, like, we. We don't argue, but we avoid having uncomfortable conversations. Everything's always good. But I often go to sleep at night wondering what they're thinking. Right. Like, it. That's not conscious because it looks good. It's conscious because you're constantly working on. I think we're so scared of accepting that something may need fixing because that means it's broken, but it's not broken. There's just parts to relook at.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes. What are the things that most people don't think are harmful to hurting? Loving relationships that are actually the most harm. Not like he cheated or she lied to me or he's watching porn or. Yeah, whatever that is.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But what are actually the things that most people think. That's not really that big a deal.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

That actually you do it year after year after year is a big deal breaker in ruining relationships.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Maybe it's a little things. Maybe it's the, you know, whatever might be. Is there.

[Esther Perel]

There's a few things I can think of. I'd say there's four coming to mind right now.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

The first one I'd say is the idea of control. I think we're trying to control the other person, but it doesn't look like control. It looks like care. And that's the interesting thing.

[Lewis Howes]

It's like. It's like manipulative.

[Esther Perel]

Correct.

[Lewis Howes]

Care.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah, exactly. So control in a relationship can often look like care, but deep down, you're doing it because you want to control the other person.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Esther Perel]

So you want to tell them what to wear. You want to tell them how to spend their money and how to invest it. You want to tell them how to live their life and which friends are good for them and which friends are bad for them. Now, it's different when that's a conversation from them to you and asking for your advice. But the best thing you can do as a coach, a partner, a guide, a friend, is to help someone understand what their goals are. We talk about this all the time. Like, we don't project what I think is a worthy life or a worthy podcast or a worthy home onto what someone else wants because we all have different values, and so I think we do. Controlling means. I don't want to understand your values and what you believe in. I'm going to project mine onto you because I think they're superior anyway, and.

[Lewis Howes]

I feel more comfortable if that's the case.

[Esther Perel]

And it's very subtle. Like, this is something you have to really monitor. Like, you know, I'll give an example of, like, I've always been driven, or at least I've been driven for a lot of my adult life. And one thing I had to be really careful for when I met Radhi was to not project my ambition and drive onto how she lived and hope.

[Lewis Howes]

She does the same.

[Esther Perel]

Correct. Because Radi's this beautiful, abundant, like, sun energy, flowing, flowing. And she's in flow. And that's what makes her beautiful. That's what makes her attractive. It's what makes her special to me and to everyone else who knows her. And if I try and contain that and try and direct it towards what I think it should be. I could potentially make her lose all of that. And so I've seen my role with Radhi as being more protecting and helping her protect that than exploiting it. And I think it's so easy for us to think, well, I'm driven and I'm ambitious and look what I've done. And so my partner should do that too. And it's like, well, maybe they shouldn't. I remember I was speaking to a client. Actually, no, this was a friend. They weren't a client. I was speaking to a friend and she was saying, oh, you know, my partner, he's lazy. He doesn't work hard. He doesn't have any ambition. And I said, well, if you want someone who has ambition, is driven and works hard, then he's not your guy. That's basically all it's saying. And she was saying, no, no, no. But he's really kind and loving and thoughtful. And I was like, okay, well, which one do you want? And if you want both, go out there and look for it. But chances are that's tough too.

[Lewis Howes]

Or he may not. If he's driven, he may not have as much time for you.

[Esther Perel]

That's what it was. And that's what she. That's exactly what she discovered, that she was like, I want someone who's driven and present. And I was like, they can be present in the moment, but they're not going to have as much time available.

[Lewis Howes]

Or at least not during their season of being driven.

[Esther Perel]

Correct.

[Lewis Howes]

Maybe in 20, 30 years it'll change, but you can expect it to change.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay, so that's number one, the idea of control.

[Esther Perel]

Yes. The second one, which again, is subtle, and that's why I love your quality of your question, because it's like, what do we miss? Or what do we not see is comparison.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

I think we do it without even knowing. I've heard couples literally say, oh, did you see, like, where they went for their anniversary trip? And there's some passive messaging in there.

[Jay Shetty]

That's true.

[Esther Perel]

And you passing it off like you're really happy for this person. But really there's this part of you that's saying, we didn't do that, or I wish we did that, or why don't you think of stuff like that? And I think passive aggression in comparison, comparison will make your partner feel un. Comparison is the number one thing you can do to make your partner feel devalued and unlovable. There is nothing like comparing your partner to another Person. Now, some people will say, I'm not comparing them, I'm just saying what someone else is doing.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, but you're pointing out something that we're not doing.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

Which makes me feel like I'm not enough.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly. That is the bottom line.

[Lewis Howes]

That's it. You do that week after week, year after year. You're like, I'm never enough for this person. What do I need to do? So they start celebrating what we're doing, not what everyone else is doing.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly, exactly. And I think that. That comparing is. Is so unhealthy.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

Okay, two more. I think complaining about your partner to your family and other people, it creates a loop. So if you complain about your partner to your family, then your family is going to check in with you and then you complain again and then they check in with you. Now, I'm not saying you don't talk to your family about your partner, but there's a difference in saying, hey, we're going through this and we're going to therapy and we're figuring this out versus he's so there. She's so that. They're so that. And I find that that complaining that we do, it also seeps into what we spot in our partner. We're now looking for them to confirm our complaint. So if we just complained about a partner and said, oh, they never do this. When we go home and they haven't washed the dishes, we're like, oh, yeah, see, I was right. And now we're double triggered. Rather than talking to them and communicating and saying, hey, when I come home from work and I see this, I'm triggered by xyz, let's talk about this complaining.

[Lewis Howes]

Yep. And that goes back into your. Your third agreement of love. Yes, I love that.

[Esther Perel]

And the fourth and final one that comes to mind right now is this. This one's really tough because I had a friend who was going through this a lot. Whenever he was making progress in something like, let's say he got a promotion, his partner would say to him, I don't know how they promoted you. I never see you work.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Perel]

It was criticism.

[Lewis Howes]

Diminishing them.

[Esther Perel]

Diminishing them. So it's criticism. Yeah, it's like diminishing them about something that they've achieved or missed out on, or someone saying, I didn't get that promotion. And you say, well, yeah, I didn't really see you work for it. Right. So there's criticism either way. And I think we do this because we want to be honest with our partners or we want to tell them the truth. We don't want to lie to them. Or most of the time it's because we're hard on ourselves. We're criticizing ourselves for not achieving what we wanted. And now we project that criticism onto our partner for what they wanted. And criticism ends up making someone feel so far away from you. Like criticism increases distance in a relationship. It pushes someone so far away because you've made them feel unworthy, unwanted and not enough.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

And again, I'm not saying the opposite is. Praise your partner, tell them really nice things about themselves. But there's a way to communicate about certain challenges they're going through. It's not in the moment saying, hey, I didn't get the job, oh yeah, well, better luck next time or oh, it didn't quite work out. And you might say, well, people don't do this. I promise you what I'd love for everyone to do with this, I'm going to set a little challenge. If you're in a relationship, I want you to do an audit or account of how many of these you do every week about your partner. So just do it honestly. Honestly, for the next seven days. If you're in a relationship, think about how often you complain, compare, criticize, or try to control and just keep account. Now you may get through the week and you only do one. That's amazing. I'm really, really happy. But if you're really self aware and you're really questioning yourself, I'd find that even I do a few of these things constantly.

[Lewis Howes]

And what's even. I think this is a beautiful audit and probably a lot of people don't even, aren't even aware they're doing it.

[Esther Perel]

That's what it is.

[Lewis Howes]

Such a pattern and an unconscious reaction to seeing something.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And even if you don't do it verbally, I would ask yourself to audit it internally.

[Esther Perel]

That's what I'm saying.

[Lewis Howes]

Criticizing. Am I comparing without even saying it? Maybe I keep the peace and I don't say what I really think. But are you thinking it?

[Esther Perel]

Yeah. You're scrolling on social media.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, yeah. Am I comparing? Am I complaining in my mind? I wish he would do this. I wish he would do this, but without saying it. That's still like creating this rumination inside of you. I love that audit. We are here talking about eight rules of love. How to find it, how to keep it, and how to let it go. If you guys haven't got a copy yet, make sure to get 10 copies right now, you mentioned this a Little bit before about conscious love having agreements, principles, boundaries and rules, which I think is a great thing. Most people don't have that. They just have assumptions and expectations as goes more into toxic love.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

A friend of mine, Ryan Holmes, told me this years ago when he got married. I was like, what has made this like a healthy relationship for you? He was like, you know, we created a. What did he call it? Like a family vision. We created that. We actually sat down and we created like a family crest, like a sign, a symbol of what we wanted to mold together to build our family. Something like they used to do in England, like five years ago. But it's like he said, doing that allowed us to get clear on our principles, what we wanted to really step into, how we wanted to serve each other and our communities, our families in the world. And I thought, that's cool. Is there anything that you have around building kind of like a relationship motto, you know, crest vision? Is there anything you talk about around that?

[Esther Perel]

Yeah, I talk a lot about how there's. There's three things you've got liking someone's personality, you've got respecting their values, and then you've got a commitment towards helping them get to their goals. Right. So that's my definition of love. My definition of love is when you like someone's personality, when you respect their values and you're committed to helping them towards their goals. Which means you have to know what your values are and theirs, and you have to know what your goals are and theirs. And someone asked me the other day, they're about to get married. And they said, jay, what's your advice? And I said, do you know your partner's top three values? And they struggled.

[Lewis Howes]

I think so, yeah. And they were saying, friends and family.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah, exactly. They're very, very broad things. And I was like, well, what does that mean? Like, what's the hierarchy? Like, what's the order? And then I said, well, do you know your partner's goals for the next 12 months? And they struggled again. They were like, oh, I don't know. Like they're just settling into a new job. And I was thinking, if you don't know who your partner is and where they're going, then how are you meant to be their partner? And so to me, check ins about these three things.

[Lewis Howes]

That's good.

[Esther Perel]

Regularly and consistently give you a full vision of who your partner is and where they're heading.

[Lewis Howes]

That's so good. Liking their personality is what you said first.

[Esther Perel]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

If you don't like someone's personality, you're going to spend 10,000 meals with them, you better enjoy their personality.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly. And that's the study that shows that to make some and me and you are great friends because of this. By this definition too. And I've really thought about this. So to make someone a casual friend, you should have spent 40 hours with them. 40 hours for a casual friend? If you consider someone a good friend, you have to spend 100 hours with them. And if you consider someone a great friend, you should have spent 200 hours with them. We've definitely spent more than 200 hours together. But that's the question I would ask when you say, like their personality, can you spend 200 present hours together? Not just 200 hours watching TV or other movies. Present hours. That's the likeness.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Jay Shetty]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

She was thinking that I'm going to say something like, horrible. And I was like, do you want me to be fully honest? And she looked at me, she said, yes. I said, are you sure? Because I've been honest in the past and people don't like it. Yeah, are you sure? And she said, yes. Take a deep breath. I'm like, okay, I got to have this courage. Because I just know that I thought that she wouldn't like what I was about to say. And I said, okay, here are my three main values in order in life. Number one is I value my health. And that needs to be like, my top priority. Because if I'm sick, I can't do really anything. So I need to take care of health first. And you need to support me in making sure that I use my energy to do that on a consistent basis. You can't pull me away from my health or healthy activities or make me feel bad for going to the gym or whatever it is. Number one, number two, priority number two is my purpose, my mission. Like in the season of life, the mission that I have right now. And that's being all in focused on that and not feeling bad about it, not taking time away from it, you know, not being resentful of it, any of those things. That's priority number two. And I was like, no woman wants to hear from their man or potential man that they're not their number one or number two priority. And I said, then number three would be my relationship. You know, if we're going to end up dating together, it would be us.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And I said, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be like, I would never have time for you.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah. I'm not going to choose the gym over here.

[Lewis Howes]

But I need to make sure those first two priorities are set in stone so that I can actually give to you more so that I can be more present with you, so I can give you fully, abundantly, and we can do all the things you want to do. You're gonna feel like number one, but you need to know that number one and two, I have to do these first.

[Esther Perel]

So good.

[Lewis Howes]

And you will feel like the most important person in the world.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But if I don't feel healthy, if I'm being pulled away from my purpose on my mission, I'm not gonna be good for you.

[Esther Perel]

So good.

[Lewis Howes]

And she looked at me, she goes, this is amazing.

[Esther Perel]

And she goes, I can imagine.

[Lewis Howes]

That's amazing. I love this. And I go, really? Because I'm thinking, like, yeah, I've. I've experienced, and I've heard other people experience that. If you're not making your woman your number one priority.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

If you don't put me first over everything, then it's like a stressful experience.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And for me, that goes back into toxic love. And it's not about. You aren't my top priority. It's prioritizing health and purpose and service, Whether you want to call it the same level or just above.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

So that you have the energy to be present to your relationship. At least that's for me, what I feel like a man needs to be in their relationship. They're on. They got to be on purpose. Right. And she told me, I love it because I've never been with a man who had a purpose. They always made me their purpose. And after a while, it doesn't feel good. You're like, go out and do the thing you want to do in life, like, I don't care if you want to, you know, serve two people a day, but go do something that you're excited about, not just make it about me.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And so give me your thoughts on this, you know, this. This idea or this philosophy. If you think that's in alignment with your eight rules of Love, or if you think that's I'm crazy and I got. I just got a lucky one who just accepts me for that.

[Esther Perel]

I love it. So it's really interesting you say you did that, because inside my book, eight Rules of Love, I actually talk about how I gave client that same exercise. So I asked them to rank their top three priorities in order. And I was coaching the couple. So the man wrote you the kids? Me. And she wrote me the kids.

[Lewis Howes]

You.

[Esther Perel]

Were so upset. Like, he was.

[Lewis Howes]

Go ahead. This is funny, because I want to unpack this because I went to Cesar Milan, the dog whisperer, and I took my team to do like a full day leadership training, which you got to take your team one day.

[Esther Perel]

So cool.

[Lewis Howes]

And he.

[Esther Perel]

I'm always scared Caesar's gonna give me a dog. That's why I don't go.

[Lewis Howes]

I know, right? I'm so scared. And he. And he talks about the dynamics, at least in America, of relate married couples, where if you. If he asked most women what's the priorities in the relationship, it's. It's like mom, kids, dog, then the husband. This is what he says. A lot of women say it's like the husband is last because they get this unconditional love from the dog. But that's after the kids.

[Esther Perel]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lewis Howes]

And then husband. And he's like, we've got it all backwards.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. We need to be the parents, need to be leading the pack.

[Esther Perel]

Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

Together, side by side.

[Esther Perel]

Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

Right. So anyways, I don't want to.

[Esther Perel]

No, no, no. I love that. That's a beautiful point.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. So. So you said he had one thing, which was her, the kids, and then himself, and she had herself, the kids, and then the man.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly, exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

So what happened from that dynamic and what happens when you enter or in a relationship like that?

[Esther Perel]

Well, he was distraught, and he was really upset because he was just like, how can I be third on your list? And even more than that, he was actually upset that she put herself first. That's what he was more upset about. He actually wasn't that upset about being third. He was more upset about, how are you first for yourself?

[Lewis Howes]

How is it not the kids or the kids.

[Esther Perel]

How is it not the kids? And her response was similar to yours, that I want to be present, energized and my best for you and the kids. I don't want to give my leftovers to you and the kids. And I often say this to people, like, if someone is emotionally and energetically dead, how can they keep you alive? It doesn't make any sense. And so what we have to understand is someone's not being selfish by focusing on themselves if they're doing it with a selfless spirit. That's the key.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Esther Perel]

So you may meet a man who's not like Lewis and says, yeah, I'm first. For me, I'm first. And they're only doing that because they think they're first. There's no, I'm going to take care of myself so I can be better for you. Yes, that's the spirit you're looking for. So you're looking for someone who's selfish with a selfless spirit, not just someone who's selfish. And there's a difference. And it could sound like the same thing, it could even look like the same thing. You could meet someone who says, I'm dedicated, my purpose, I'm dedicated to who I am, but it's not anything to do with you. And I think that's the difference. People who prioritize self care in order to serve, that's the self care we want in our lives. And so that's what I encourage in people, that you should always take care of yourself so you can take care of your partner, so you can take care of your kids. You're not just taking care of yourself just like it has to go somewhere.

[Lewis Howes]

And being lazy about everything else.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

Speaking of priorities, I'm curious your thoughts on what is more triggering and harder to talk about in intimacy which will lead to marriage. Is it around money or how to raise kids or are they kind of equal and they're triggering?

[Esther Perel]

No, I'd actually say that this is such a great question. I'd actually say that more of our trauma, because this is what's interesting. Right. The honest answer is it depends on what your trauma is. But most people's trauma comes out more strongly in how to raise kids because now it goes back to how they were raised and what they got, what.

[Lewis Howes]

They didn't get, how you're treated and.

[Esther Perel]

Exactly. So I'd say that raising kids becomes a really tension filled point for couples because both either think the way they were raised was great or both had bad experiences and now they're repeating them with the kids or a mix of both. And so I find that kids are also triggering because now you're getting to see who they love and who they respond to, who they listen to, who they like, who they connect with. Now, of course, kids don't have favorites, especially when they're young, they don't even know. But there definitely is that feeling from an insecure parent that I do this all for them and they just want to hang out with you or you get the fun side of the kids, and I have to deal with the stress. And I'm not saying none of that's true. I'm just saying that I think raising kids triggers the most amount of trauma. So. And I've seen that it's, it's. And it's. And it's natural because you're now looking at that kid with the lens of what did I not get at that age? And I want to give it to these kids. And even though that's a beautiful intention, it may not be ideal because you may overcompensate, you may struggle. And what I've realized generally is that with any of this, we're all going to make mistakes, we're all going to get things wrong. But I think with our kids, we want to be perfect, and we want to get it perfect because we love them and we don't want to mess something up. And often it's that recognizing that loving them is more important than perfecting everything around them. And I feel that way with my parents. Like I feel my mom loved me so deeply and truly that despite all the imperfection of my upbringing, her love is what lives inside of me. And that is something that no one's ever going to forget. Where sometimes you can set up the perfect environment around the kids, but if you don't fuel it with love, if you don't fill it with the oxygen of love, they're not going to grow up with that or remember that.

[Lewis Howes]

Why are so many people holding on to resentment of what someone did in a relationship in their past versus allowing them to find forgiveness and peace about it? Maybe it's not agreeing that it was okay what they did, but why do people hold on to resentment for so long or anger about a past?

[Jay Shetty]

I think it's because people are afraid it's going to happen to them again.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh.

[Jay Shetty]

And when we have a traumatic event, big or small, in fact, you're always on the lookout for any signal in the environment, any person or circumstance, that's going to be the smallest cue that's going to say, oh, I've done this before, I better get ready for it. So we're in a constant state of bad news, waiting for the worst case scenario. So let me just finish this, okay? Yes, because the question really was about self love. The person who lives in resentment is making themselves unhappy. A person who's judging everybody else and because they're judging themselves is making themselves unhappy. The person who's complaining, blaming, making excuses, feel sorry for themselves, they're making themselves unhappy. There's nobody doing that to them. You say, it's your ex. Okay, let's take your ex. Let's put them in a straight jacket and shoot them to the moon. Now what?

[Lewis Howes]

You're still holding on to it, thinking.

[Jay Shetty]

That way and feeling that way. And that person is no longer in your life. You're defined by that, that, that, that story, by that past event. Okay? The person's truly sincere and thinks there's something other than that emotion of resentment. What's on the other side of it? Am I willing to sit through it long enough? And no matter how much the pain is or what my body does, I'm going to sit this one out. I'm going to work with my body and keep bringing it back into the present moment. It's like training an at all. You keep doing it over and over again. You stay, you stay. You say, I'm not getting up. I'm not eating. I'm not moving. We're going to keep lowering the volume. You keep reconditioning the body to a new mind. Sooner or later it surrenders. It surrenders to a new mind. When that occurs, there's that liberation of energy. And energy moves into the heart and you feel love for yourself. You feel a respect for yourself. You feel honor for yourself. Something. You took your power back, you know, you built your field. Something feels right. When we look at the data of people who do this and we see their scans, their brain scans, or we see their HRV measurements and they get good at this, we measure their oxytocin levels. Now, oxytocin is the love chemical, right? It's made in the pituitary gland. It is the love chemical. Causes us to bond, to connect, to unify. And when I showed the values of oxytocin levels with these people to scientists, they're sometimes 200 times above normal. Now, that's not a little love. That's a lot of love.

[Lewis Howes]

It's an explosion of love.

[Jay Shetty]

It's a lot of love. And so oxytocin signals nitric oxide and nitric oxide signals another chemical called endothelial derived relaxing factor. And that chemical causes the arteries in your heart and your lungs to literally open up and blood flows into your heart. And your heart is filled with energy. Just like when it engages the sexual organs, there's an engorgement of blood in there and it activates it with energy. And there's a mind that's created, it's a consciousness. Wow. Now this one opens up. It's a whole different consciousness. In fact, the research on oxytocin shows that the slightest elevation in oxytocin, it's impossible to hold a grudge. It's impossible. You say, dude, I feel so good. I'm good. Like, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm really good. Now that kind of state means I don't want to feel anything else but this. So I am not going to compromise myself or my energy to a lower denominator just because of you. In fact, I'm really good around you. I'm really okay. I feel so good. I don't want to judge you because I don't want to lose this feeling. So then imagine being around a cat like that. Being around a person like that, that's really easy to be around because they're okay with themselves. And when they're okay with themselves, they relate with people differently. In fact, they relate with them unconditionally. They just love them unconditionally. And that causes an attraction, it causes a bond, right? So one of the things I learned last year and watching people, you know, in this work and week long events, I do my best to pay really close attention. Looked at an audience one day and I looked out in the room, just, we just finished a walking meditation. Everybody sat down and I kind of glanced around the room and everybody had this radiant smile. And I said to them, hey, who's making you happy, by the way? Who? Who's making you happy? There's nobody doing that to you. You're doing that to you. You're making yourself. I mean, you're not relying on your, anybody in your life to do that. Now that is an attractive energy. That's the person who relates well with money. There's a relationship with money. They relate well with people. They're very giving, they're very caring, they want nothing in return. They're more present because that's who they're practicing being. And so there's a natural affinity and natural attraction because the person is really present and they're really okay. And something is different about them, something is unique about them. So the relationship we have with people when we're in that state where we're really okay with ourselves and we've made ourselves happy, we're really happy with ourselves, allows us to love just about. We'll find beauty through the lens of love in anything when and no one else sees it. Right. Getting there is the overcoming process. That is what creates self love. Now to be very clear, I think many people, I think I'll include myself, we confuse pleasure with love and it's not the same thing.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the difference?

[Jay Shetty]

Well, pleasure is doing something that makes you feel good but has nothing to do with love. Love has everything to do with something that you feel independent of pleasure. When you overcome yourself and you arrive at your goal, you reach your dream, you never give up on yourself. You had hard moments, you fell to your knees, you brushed yourself up, you got up, you showed up again for yourself. It's amazing to watch this. I watch it at week long events. I watch people literally change in seven days. And they showed up when they said, I'm too tired, I have a handicap, I have a disease, I don't understand how rough my past is. I'm an addict. I, you know, I was in jail, my mother was abusive, you know all they showed up in spite of, I'm too old, I have whatever that is. They. You keep showing up for yourself, you start feeling really worthy, really worthy to receive. And the universe only gives us what we think we're worthy of receiving. Right? So, so in when you're in love, you're in a whole lot less lack. And if you're in a whole lot less lack, in a sense you're moving closer to source. And that's a really good feeling. That's a really good feeling. So practice that every day. Practice that every day. And your relationships with people, your relationship with your body, your relationship with money, your relationship with your phone, your relationship with your car, your relationship with. Everything would be different.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Jay Shetty]

And so the overcoming process is the becoming process. You make yourself happy, you no longer need anybody to do that for you. You have a person in your life who is conscious that wants to make themselves happy and share their joy and their love with somebody. Well, you have something really unique, it's really special. And love is a bonding, a very bonding chemical. It's a very bonding energy. Right. Like if you look at oxytocin levels in mammals, you typically see it when the female has just given birth and she's grooming the offspring and she's touching it and licking it and nudging it and taking care of it. There's oxytocin levels are released through the limbic brain, through the midbrain. That's the bonding brain. They're smelling, they're connecting and they're attracting one another. It's creating a connection, a honeymoon stage of relationship where there's a lot of intense connection, a lot of intimacy releases oxytocin, creates monogamy, it creates a bond that creates unity, creates connection. Right? So show the values to our, some of the scientists and some of my colleagues. And they see oxytocin levels 200 times normal. They're like, dude, what are you doing? Is it couples week? What is going on here? And I say, you know, I say the same thing. I say, number one, I want people to fall in love with their future just like they fall in love with another person. Because then if they do, they're bonded to that future just like they're bonded to another person. Secondly, if you truly, truly want to connect to pure love, to source, to singularity, to oneness, to wholeness, to the fertile void, to vacuum energy, whatever you want to call that universal intelligence, that's pure consciousness, that's pure love. If you hit that moment where you hit connection, you will feel that arousal of love. It'll be, it'll be profoundly memorable for you. And it's, it's not chemical, it's electric. It's very electric.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Jay Shetty]

So you get a few of those, it becomes you and you become it. And so your love for the divine, your love for the mystical, your love for the unseen, your love for source, that the love affair begins. And it's like being in love. It's. No one can tell you you're in love. You just know it. And it gets really hard to miss a date. Imagine you go and you go and connect every day and you start your day from that place. That's a relationship. That's a relationship with the world that you're bringing.

[Lewis Howes]

So are you ready to level up your business? Intuit QuickBooks has got your back. Forget stressing over unpaid invoices or tracking expenses. QuickBooks takes care of all that so you can focus on growing. Let QuickBooks be your all in tool to help with the day to day tasks so you can stay focused on the big picture. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Inc. License as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What do you consider green flags when it comes to relationships? For me, it's when someone prioritizes communication. They're not afraid to be honest, even when it's uncomfortable, and they truly listen to understand, not just to reply. Another big one is when they show kindness again, not just to me, but to everyone around them. And how they treat strangers says a lot about their character. And I also value someone who's deeply committed to their own growth and supports me and mine. Because great relationships thrive when both people are striving to become their best selves. We often hear about the red flags we should avoid. But what if we focus more on looking for green flags and friends and partners? If you're not share what they look like. Therapy can help you identify green flags. Actively practice them in your relationships and embody the green flag energy yourself. Whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or just working on yourself, it's time to form relationships that love you back. Discover your relationship's green flags with better help. Visit betterhelp.com Lewis to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com Lewis I think the overcoming.

[Jay Shetty]

Process is part of it. I think it's practicing getting to that place. I think it's practicing opening our hearts more, moving out of survival, working with our bodies in survival. It's not a time to love, it's just it's not a time to communicate. So in a relationship that's built on emotions other than love, there's going to be a limit to love, right? And so you got betrayed, someone else got betrayed, you get together, talk about your betrayal, work yourself up into a froth, feel the emotions, get emotional agreement, get a connection. You're connecting the same energy, the same emotion because you're sharing the same information, you're sharing the same memories and you can relate with one another. That's a certain level of consciousness.

[Lewis Howes]

For all the people that you've seen have successful long term relationships, what is the thing that you see them do extremely well versus oh yeah, they forgive each other.

[Jay Shetty]

They forgive, they forgive the emotion. Now the emotion is going to keep you in the past, right? So they have to be able to forgive.

[Lewis Howes]

What happens if we don't forgive something that our partner or in a relationship does? If it hurts us or they said something and they did something, maybe it was really bad or just you can't.

[Jay Shetty]

Forgive, you'll never have love.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Jay Shetty]

The love that we withhold is the Pain that we experience lifetime after lifetime. You know, it's how it is.

[Lewis Howes]

The. Say it again.

[Jay Shetty]

The love that we withhold is the pain that we experience lifetime after.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, man.

[Jay Shetty]

And then when we master our emotions, we master our creations. So that's a creation. And you have to overcome the memory and the emotion. And when you do, you belong to the future instead of the past.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, man.

[Jay Shetty]

So otherwise, well, that's a perfect explanation of karma. You live by that emotion. That emotion is going to drive a certain behavior and cause you to think a certain way. And you're on the wheel. You're going to. People are living the same lifetime every day. They're in cycles. They're living the same lifetime after a lifetime because they haven't overcome the emotion. No one's doing that to them. The soul can't go to the future. Can't go. It can't go if it's stuck in the emotion of the past. So the soul has to overcome the event by overcoming the emotion. Forget what happened. You'll never hear me say to anybody, tell me your story. I will never say that. I would never do that to you. Wow. I would say overcome the emotion. And then the story ends.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Jay Shetty]

Because the memory without that emotional charge is the wisdom we get from the experience. We never have to do it again. And now the soul says, okay, I'm ready for the next adventure. Okay, so I was betrayed. Okay. I learned the lesson. I did this, I did that. Okay, I got it. But we discovered that when people analyze their life within some disturbing emotion, they make their brain worse 100% of the time.

[Lewis Howes]

Holy cow.

[Jay Shetty]

Because you're thinking in the past, the answer is not there. Overcome the emotion. Actually thinking about it makes the brain worse. It drives them into higher states of arousal. Overcome the emotion. You have the answer to your own question. Because it's not in the known. It's not in the past. You got to get beyond it. So I say to people, when they ask me questions, just seven days, just cross the river, you're going to have the answers to your own questions. There's going to be no better life coach for you than you over this. So then the person who shows up worthy in their life, person who's happy because they're making themselves happy, that's such an unknown for everybody that they've just left and showed back up in their life. Or they usually complain with. They're like, oh, my God, this person's joined the culture. Oh, my God, this person seems way too happy. And they're Happy without me, you know, and. And really it's just an energy that's. That the person has broken out of the chains. They free themselves from the chains of the past. Right. And so that doesn't mean that they don't get frustrated, don't get angry. They just don't waste their time staying there. Because living by that emotion will create a gap between the way things appear and the way things really are. Wow. And if we respond during that period, we'll always say the same thing. Should have never said that. I should never done that. Should have sent that email or that text. You're altered in some way. So learning to shorten the refractory period of your emotional responses is emotional intelligence. Right. And getting really good at that then allows a person to show up differently. And when people create the life they want, which happens a lot, why would they hold a grudge?

[Lewis Howes]

Right?

[Jay Shetty]

Why would they do that? They trust. They free themselves, and they free that person. Like, everybody's been betrayed, everybody's been hurt. But if your life is wonderful, who cares like that, whoa, I wasn't conscious or whatever. And then now it's when your life isn't working and it ain't working, and you're living by the same emotion and that past is. You're going to keep it alive, but you're the only one keeping it alive. Where is it? Where is your past? Where is it? It's only there, right?

[Lewis Howes]

It's in a memory.

[Jay Shetty]

It's a memory.

[Lewis Howes]

It's not here.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah, it's not here. So then people spend enormous amounts of time not even knowing, not even aware that they're living in that state. And always predicting. The default mode network in the brain is always predicting the next moment based on what it's learned in the past, right?

[Lewis Howes]

If you're holding a grudge of the past, it's going to predict that in.

[Jay Shetty]

The future, you're just going to get ready for the next one.

[Lewis Howes]

You're recreating the past.

[Jay Shetty]

You're your. Your future is your past.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, man.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah. And there's. And that's all the known, right? So getting a person to no longer live in the predictable future, you know, where they're just habituated, where they get up and do things and they're on a program. Getting a person that's the predictable future is the known, familiar past is the known. Living by the emotion, remembering the event. If the. If the familiar past is the known and the predictable future is the known, there's only one place where the unknown can be that's the present moment. Getting a person to labor for the present moment liberates energy in the body. And that's when the person starts feeling more like themselves and they don't feel as altered. And so you overcome the emotion of resentment. Just use this as an example by sitting in the fire for a week and just facing off with it and just working with your body and retraining it to a new mind. I guarantee you that when you see your ex, you'll see a part of you you used to be that you no longer are. And you'll have nothing but compassion and love for her. And you'll be like, wow, wow, I get it. I totally get it. It's no longer the past anymore. You're not connected to it any longer. And you free that person and your relationship changes and something shifts and there's she's, he's, she's seeing you differently because you're showing up differently. And it's not anything you're saying. You're not lecturing them, they're just not showing up as the memory they had of you. And that allows them to be different. And that's a great service.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes. You mentioned about survival mode. When we're in survival mode, we're feeling stressed, and when we're feeling stressed, we're unable to feel that kind of self. Love, Love for self.

[Jay Shetty]

Well, when you're in stress, you're altered. You're altered, you're altered. You're not your altered self.

[Lewis Howes]

You're shaken, you're not feeling whole, you've moved from love.

[Jay Shetty]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

And when we enter a relationship from survival or stress or lack of worthiness or neediness, I need someone to make me feel more loved because I don't have it myself. What do we usually attract and create when we're attracting from neediness, survival and a lack of wholeness?

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah. I think that all of that lack, all of that separation is separation from love. Right. And the problem is, is that we've just been conditioned into thinking that it comes from out there. It comes from that person, that drug, that circumstance, that, that thing, that object, this app, whatever it is. And you're, you're relying on your outer world to change your inner world. And so when things are good, you feel good. When things are feel bad, you feel bad. So you're, you're out of fact, you're not at cause in any way. So what if, though you had a way to find that independent of your outer world? The data we have suggests it's absolutely possible now you're free. You're free. Like you don't need anybody or anything. You'd be a lot cooler to hang around with everybody be like, well, you know, that's just. That would allow them, I know this, your presence would allow them to move out of survival. They would open their heart a little bit more. They trust you a little bit more. They'd be more kind to be more soft spoken, more, less egocentric. Your presence would do that and may not be the first time, but they would start figuring out like, wow, this guy is really different. You know, he's. Something's different about him. And that's just because you're present and you're giving them your attention without judgment. You see how hard it is to change. You've actually made that change because you've made that change. And you see that you've made that change. But you see that in them. You're no longer judging them. You have compassion for them. Like, dude, that's a tough one. It took me a long time to get over that. But you're not judging them. Like, what's wrong with you? You're like, oh my God, I totally know what that's like. You've crossed that river. So of course you would never offer them advice unless they asked you. You would probably give them a one liner. I mean, people who heal in our work so many times, you know, people in a state of desperation will say, what meditation did you do? And they laugh at them like, there's nothing to do with the meditation. It was just I changed. Like, and it was, it was a, it was an arduous process. But they're telling a difference. They're telling the story of their future. They're not telling the story of their past, their ex or their betrayer or whoever that person is. They have no regrets about that because.

[Lewis Howes]

Why they wish them well.

[Jay Shetty]

It's not like they're even trying to forgive, to be spiritual. You know, people who try to forgive, like, I'm really going to try to forgive them. Working hard, it's just not how that works. Like you are in love. Like, you don't have to try to forgive. You're just, you just don't want to lose this feeling and you take your attention off that person. You're good you. There's a lot of freedom in that. And that's how people heal. They're, they're building their own field. They're, they're, they're giving their body, their energy back again. They're taking their power back in so many ways. So, and then there is, then there is community, a collective consciousness. Like, I, I, I, I like great conversation. I like spirited conversation. I like to be scientists or people in my life that I love. I like to engage in just what the limit is and like, everybody take us on a journey to see how far we can go. I don't like to talk about, like, things that really, that are, that where there's pain or suffering or what. I don't, I don't. Or there's ego. I don't really like that. Like, that's a consciousness and everybody's done it. But if you're truly on the path to evolution, you outgrow it.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Jay Shetty]

You outgrow complaining. Like, you just, you just don't, you don't want to make yourself unhappy anymore. You outgo outgrow talking about yourself like you're better than anybody else. Because if you do, you got to face off with that person tomorrow and overcome them tomorrow. After a while, you're like, dude, just stop that. So you don't have to deal with you like that anymore. So you just start, you start outgrowing things that are just a side effect of your evolution. It's not like you have to try to do it. It's just the side effect of a change in consciousness, a change in energy, change in awareness, change in emotional states. And so in the heart, it is the selfless place. It's a selfless place. We give from the heart, we care from the heart, we're kind in our heart, we're compassionate in our heart, we're inspired in our heart. You know, we fall in love with our heart. We're grateful in our heart. And so I think people feel with every other part of their body but their heart, like, they just don't feel with it. Right. Practice feeling with your heart.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Jay Shetty]

And God, we have, we have such great data. You know, we put these monitors on people for 24 hours, right? And I used to think primarily it was women that had these moments. Now we're seeing that men have them too. In fact, the men whose spouses take them or partners take them to an event and they really don't want to come. Those guys are going to be fine. They have really, really big moments. So we see them in their meditation where you can. These little blocks of five minutes, and you see the heart just drop in the coherence and it's just beautiful lines, beautiful looks. You can see this. It's very easy to see. You see this person sustaining it for 45 minutes during their meditation. So you're like, all right, this person nailed it. You go to the next meditation, another 45 minutes, again, done it once, done it twice. This looks like this person's getting a skill. All of a sudden, they do it a third time, another 45 minutes, and then lo and behold, those three meditations in one day. Then they're in their room and they're unpacking and getting ready for bed. They're still wearing the heart rate monitor. And while they're not in a meditation for one hour, while they're just unpacking, getting ready, there's an enormous amount of hard coherence that's taking place for a whole hour.

[Lewis Howes]

Why?

[Jay Shetty]

Because just like a person who has a panic attack, who's embracing the worst case scenario in their mind every day and emotionally feeling the anxiety and the fear of that event actually occurred, that image of that emotion, that stimulus and response, that thought and feeling is conditioned the body to become the mind of anxiety. The body has a panic attack with you or without you. Try as you may to control it with your conscious mind. You can't control. You program it subconsciously, right? So is it possible to have a spontaneous love attack? That's what she had. She had on one hour. Or her body went into ecstasy and you could see it. I said, love attack. A love attack.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Jay Shetty]

I said to her, what did you do? She said, and I saw it. She laid. She got on in bed and she laid down and rolled over and went to sleep. So you see her about an hour and 10 minutes, perfect hard coherence. And just see it drop off into sleep. 13, 1400 different chemicals released to restore and repair the body. So the love that you feel is the glue that creates connection on a cellular level, on a molecular level, on an atomic level. Peel the atom all the way back right to the center of the nucleus and you have nothing but energy. And that energy is what's called low entropy. And low entropy is high order. And high order is high energy and it's a lot of, lot of power. So as you move closer to that source of everything physical and material, we have such great data to show that people actually run into it. When they do, their autonomic nervous system goes into these elevated states of high, high, high gamma brainwave patterns. Now, gamma is super consciousness. Gamma is very conscious, very aware. So the person's whole entire autonomic nervous system is processing hundreds of standard deviations of gamma outside of normal. That's not a little gamma. And it's so coherent now the autonomic nervous system touches every single cell in the body, controls and coordinates all those systems, right? So now imagine stress is autonomic, neural dysregulation, incoherence. This is autonomic regulation, but this is not a little regulation. This is enormous amount of energy that's taking place in the brain. And the autonomic nervous system is on fire. In every single cell in the body is getting touched by that frequency. And that frequency is carrying information and energy is informing matter. And that connection creates that feeling of pure love, of ecstasy or bliss. And now the person takes a piece of it with them. They become more of it and it becomes them. And so we measure their blood and there's a lot of oxytocin. We measure their blood and there's information in that blood that wasn't there before, that heals cancer, that reverses Alzheimer's, that causes viruses to not enter the cell. I mean, that causes the microbiome to change in a matter of days. So that interaction with that unifying field of energy that exists beyond our senses, whose signature is oneness, whose signature is wholeness, whose signature is pure love, means then that it lives within you and all around you. Then you'd be remembering who you are and where you came from, which is pure love. And it is the most familiar, unfamiliar feeling you'll ever have. And it's not chemical. Wow. It's electric. And when you have that moment, many times there's an upgrade that takes place in the body. There's the disease, now it's gone. There's the eczema, it's gone. There's a myasthenia gravis, now it's gone. There's the Parkinson's, now it's gone. There's the blindness, now it's gone. There's a energies in forming matter. And that enormous amount of regulation, high, high amounts of regulation is raising the body and frequency. It's raising the body and light and all diseases lowering frequency. So the person is connecting to something way bigger than their senses, way something beyond their senses, and it's coming from within them. Now you only need one of those and you're okay from that point forward. And the way you see life, some veil, some illusion, some conditioning, some hypnosis is removed. And you're now way more relaxed in your heart and way more awake in your brain instead of unconscious, stressed out and in a program, right?

[Lewis Howes]

And when I think you're more awake in your heart and your brain, you start to attract more great opportunities and you Start to see, is this person in alignment with my type of resonating.

[Jay Shetty]

Resonating in that consciousness.

[Lewis Howes]

Exactly.

[Jay Shetty]

You'll be able to find your tribe. It'll be as obvious as anything.

[Lewis Howes]

Exactly. Whether you're looking for a partner or friends or community or you know, business partner trust. Exactly.

[Jay Shetty]

That you resonate and you feel that. And, and, and the heart is a strong element in the creative process. So if you have a coherent brain, then you're sending the signal out into the quantum field. That's the, that's the potential in the quantum field that you're selecting that already exists. And you got to have an intention. And the more coherent the brain, the more the electrical signal takes place in the field. But if you want to create the experience, the synchronicity, the opportunity, you got to need a coherent heart. And the heart is the magnetic field. And the magnetic field draws things to us. So now we don't have to go get it any longer because that's what we do in three dimensional reality. All of a sudden you start noticing I really didn't do anything. Well, I got the email, I got the phone call, I got the opportunities, I met this person, led to this and wow. And all of a sudden I have this life. And so if you're going to believe in that future that you're imagining with all of your heart, it's got to be open and activated. We train people to get in that place and when they're in that place, they have wonderful relationships with everything and everybody because they're okay with themselves.

[Esther Perel]

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[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

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[Jay Shetty]

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[Lewis Howes]

What is the main thing you would recommend people work on themselves? Whether in transition of relationships or in a relationship, is there one thing that they could always be working on to improve themselves to be better for other relationships?

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

If their entire story about the relationship that just ended is about what the other person did wrong to them, something is missing in the story.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

That doesn't mean that the other person may not have done things that were hurtful to them. But add to it who were you in this relationship?

[Lewis Howes]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

What role did you play? What did you see that you didn't want to pay attention to? What things do you wish you had done differently? What pieces do you wish that your partner had seen and accepted from you differently? Where did you wish you would have said less? And where did you wish you would have said more? What do you learn from this relationship? And if. When you say what you learn, it's just that I want to make sure that the next person is.

[Lewis Howes]

Gives me what I need, you know.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Or is less of this or more of that, you know, who do you want to be in the next relationship?

[Lewis Howes]

How are you going to add value?

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

A relationship is a story of many people. It's not even a story, just of two. Who was too involved in your relationship? Who was not involved enough? So there's a cast of characters in a relationship, and it's all those questions that you want to ask when you are in transition. What? I think that's it. But there are both directions. If you find yourself with a spotlight only on the other person and you in a passive, receptive stance, you're missing a whole pan of the story.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. And you're probably more of the problem of the relationship than them. If you're just focusing on them, probably.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

A relationship is not about this person and that person. The relationship is what happens in between. This is my view on relationships. It's not an essentialist view. This is this personality and that personality. It's the dynamic. You can have a dynamic with a certain partner. You've had dynamics with certain partners. And of course, it was just the right fit between the match and the ignition. And so you had enough inside of you to react with a certain kind of, let's put your jealousy. But you may meet another person who acts differently, and you may still have a little bit of that jealousy inside of you, but it doesn't get activated because this person is responding very differently to you. And when you say, where were you? They don't say, why do you always have to ask me that question? They just say, I just want to do this. It's all good, darling, I'm right here. I've got you back. And then you don't go into your chest pain, you know, pain. So this is very important to understand. We are not the same person with different partners. We may have certain things that come out depending on what is being sent over to us. So the relationship is a figure 8. It's what I do that makes you do something that then makes you react to Me a certain way that then draws that out of me, that draws that out of you. And each one actually creates the other. And when you get that view of relationships, when you come out and you're in transition, you say to yourself, let's say I was with someone who completely disconnected, okay? They disconnected. Did I push them away? Are there ways in which I contributed sometimes to the disconnection? And that is not self blame. That is understanding the dynamic. You can take responsibility about things without blaming yourself, and you can hold the other person accountable without blaming them. It's not a blame dance, but it is an understanding of what did I do that made you do what you then did to me, that then made me. That's the relationship.

[Lewis Howes]

And if someone's like, you know what? They're listening to you, Esther. They really want to have an amazing relationship. They want to have a rich life life, knowing it's not going to be perfect, but they want to create beauty and adventure and play and go through life, through the sadness and the adversities and all the things that happen in life. And they're thinking to themselves, how much should I pour into myself for my dreams, my health, my friends and family? How much should I pour into the other person, into their life that I'm creating a partnership with? And how much should I pour into the relationship itself? What would you say to that?

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

But you asked me. It's different questions, right? What keeps a relationship alive is one question. How much do you invest in a relationship? Is a different question. So I'm going to go to the one about what keeps it alive, because it's part of. And I'm suddenly watching the box and thinking this. It is what I'm mostly interested in because I work on eroticism. What keeps us alive? What keeps us hopeful? What keeps us engaged with possibility?

[Lewis Howes]

Not physically alive, but connected alive, connected to life.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Life force, life energy. Why? Because. Because I think everybody understands relationships that are not dead versus relationships that are alive, teams that are not dead, companies versus companies that are alive. What is flourishing versus surviving? And because it is part of my personal history and I come from a background of survivors of parents who were in concentration camps. And I wanted to understand how do people stay alive when they spend five years in a concentration camp. So that's why I got interested in eroticism. Sexuality is a piece of this, but sexuality is not eroticism. You can have sex every day and feel nothing. Eroticism is the poetry that accompanies it. It's the meaning we give to it, right? It's the story that's attached. So eroticism in a relationship is the quality of imagination, curiosity, playfulness, mystery, risk taking, novelty that people bring to their relationship. Those are the things that I think bring life to a relationship. So in the research of Eli Finkel, it means doing new things together, taking risks beyond your threshold, out of your comfort zone. Because if you do pleasant things that are familiar, it's cozy, it's friendship, it's love, but it's not exciting, it's not erotic, it's not necessarily desire, it's calibrating your expectations so that you have. And that means diversifying your intimate connections or your deep connections. For me, intimacy doesn't mean sexual either. It just means people that are important to you, that accompany you through the life stages and through the big events in life. These three things, expectations, calibrating expectations, diversifying your social connections and taking risks and doing new things is the research of Eli Finkel for thriving relationships. But then in that piece, I think play is essential. Playfulness, it's huge. And it is actually the quality of emotions that is the least talked about.

[Lewis Howes]

How often are you playing in your relationship?

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

All the time. Humor is essential. It's an essential salve and bomb. In my relationship, I can be in the middle of an argument and then I start to laugh and then I just get perspective and we just kind of ground ourselves back again. It's flirting, it's teasing, it's making fun of. It's that whole realm of we're not really serious and we don't take ourselves that serious.

[Lewis Howes]

And what happens when relationships are taking themselves very serious and they're not playing?

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Look, I had a teacher who once said to me, if a couple comes to you for therapy and there is absolutely zero humor left, it is diagnostic, really. Now, is it true? You know, nobody has proven that scientifically, but what you know is that humor. And if you listen to my podcast, if you listen to the sessions on where should we begin or on how his work, you'll see in the middle of talking about trauma, painful event, major fight, strife, I laugh with them. I manage to see if they can see themselves, if they have a bit of distance of perspective, if they understand sometimes the absurdity of the things that we get into, the things over which we fight, the way we do it, and even if it's just a glimmer, a smile on the side, on the corner, I know they know that, I know that we know. And it creates that complicity and it invites a new possibility.

[Lewis Howes]

Some people may be resisting the humor they're like, they want to hold on to the seriousness.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Yes. If you want to hold on to righteousness, to I am right, to victimization, to I have the view that is the only view that matters, and only my perception and my experience is the truth, then you are in a polarized system that is rigid and unyielding. Humor and play is possibility. Possibility invites change. Change invites healing.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes. I want to ask you a few more questions, then I want us to play your game for a little bit. Over the last two years, was there anything that came up for you personally in your own inner world that you noticed? Oh, there's something. Like we talked about, it created a lot of pressure for people. If there were things that came out, was there anything for you that you were like, huh, there's something I still need to work on myself or need to continue the healing journey of that came out in the last couple years with being at home and, you know, not doing things the way they used to be.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

I will answer this in two ways. The way that I experienced the pandemic. So in the first, in the beginning, right after I left you, I went back to New York and I went in lockdown. And basically it was in the, you know, was suddenly kind of. I got gripped with a bit of a panic, and primarily because I thought, I can't catch this thing, because if I catch it, I am now suddenly considered elderly. I'm past 60 plus.

[Lewis Howes]

We're 35.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Yeah, yeah. For the pandemic, it changed. It suddenly shifted overnight. I became elderly. And that meant I wasn't sure if we entered the hospital, me or Jack, that we will pass the triage.

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

He's older than me, and I got really, really scared. I had a lot of post traumatic stress symptoms that are very much connected to the Holocaust and to my family experience, that sense that overnight, this whole life I have built could just disappear like this. And it was irrational. I was terrified that Jack would die to the point you wanted to know about humor in my relationship. So we have it in the middle of construction at the time, and the workers. And at day point, he comes to me and he says, I asked the workers to dig a hole in the garden. I said, oh, yeah, why? He said, so that when I die, you can just roll me right in.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my God. Wow. Talk about humor.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

But I cracked up because he showed me, girl, you gripped in fear. And I just started to laugh, and I just realized, no, no, no, he's not that. Because I was ready to stop construction. I said, we're not making this.

[Lewis Howes]

No one can come here within a thousand yards of our.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

No, no. It's more like, we will not survive.

[Lewis Howes]

No way.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

I was. I really. When it's post traumatic, it's. Trauma is the word, right? So I really was very, very, very scared. And his humor diffused it for me and just brought me back and said, we're continuing to build. We're going to live. We're going to survive. Don't worry, girl. It's. So this was one. And it slowly, you know, I entered into the. Into the long term of the pandemic, and it dissolved. And that's when I understood. This came out of that. I missed my friends, I missed my dinner parties, I missed intimacy. And I created a host of different group experiences pods. I had a movie club on Zoom, on three continents.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

I have a book club. I had a yoga group that met four times a week still till now, that is over two continents.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow, that's cool.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

And I had a hiking group. I had a swimming group in the summer. And then one day I said, I need to play, and I need to continue to have conversations where I learned something new. I was so freaking tired of talking about the pandemic.

[Lewis Howes]

Sure, sure.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

And I said, I'm going to create a game. Not having any idea of what this thing was going to become and what it represented, I just thought, oh, I want to do something creative and I'm going to. I want people to be able to talk about something that isn't just like, you know, when you live six months like this in lockdown, you begin to have the same conversations.

[Lewis Howes]

Of course. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

So I just thought, how am I going to make couples have fun, get energized, you know, be curious about each other, talk about something else? And I thought, we need to play. Because play is a container. Play gives you the possibility to take risks, to talk about things that you would otherwise not talk about, because it's under the guise of play. Play allows you to ask questions that you would otherwise not ask, certainly not to your partner, because we get more shy with the people that we live with than with strangers. Sometimes interesting, you know, you're more daring to ask sometimes questions to strangers you're.

[Lewis Howes]

Never going to see again or people.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

You'Ve just met than the person you live with for decades on end. So play became very, very central. When you play, you still are able to lift yourself from the ground, and it means you can enter the world of imagination where the rules are different and every child at this moment. You know, around the Ukrainian crisis, you can see when kids are still able to play. It is the moments when they are not in hypervigilance. It is an essential survival skill. Yes, yes, Underrated. And from that place came.

[Lewis Howes]

That's correct.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

Where should we begin?

[Lewis Howes]

It's one of the key things in relationship and in life is what I'm hearing.

[Dr. Joe Dispenza]

It's ascension.

[Lewis Howes]

I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy and if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life. But you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to make moneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment. Moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you listen lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and do something great.