The School of Greatness

Episode: Former Secret Service Agent Reveals How to Read Anyone
Host: Lewis Howes
Guest: Former Secret Service Agent
Date: November 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This insightful episode of The School of Greatness features a seasoned former Secret Service agent who opens up about the real art and science of reading people, spotting deception, building trust, and understanding human behavior. Drawing from years of polygraph testing, high-stakes interviews, and personal experiences, the guest shares actionable advice on detecting lies, navigating tricky relationships, building confidence, and creating deeper connections at work and in life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Universality and Nuances of Lying (01:29—07:56)

• All People Lie: It’s human nature—research suggests some people may lie up to 10 times in a single conversation, even with loved ones.

• Lying by Omission: The most common way to lie is not by telling an outright falsehood, but by omitting critical information, thus altering the context or misleading the listener.

  "Actually, the number one way people lie is by omission. Because most people don't like to lie. It's a lot of work. So it's easier to leave something out."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (06:53)

• Polygraph and Integrity: The guest reveals the Secret Service prefers honesty—even about youthful transgressions—because integrity is paramount in positions of trust.

2. Reading Social Cues and Detecting Deceit (07:58—14:37)

• Body Language Doesn’t Always Tell: No single gesture indicates a lie; reading people is about establishing their baseline behavior, then noticing deviations—especially decreases in normal expressiveness for more demonstrative individuals.

• TED Framework: To draw out truth, use open-ended prompts—Tell, Explain, Describe (TED)—and get people to tell stories, noting changes in behavior or detail.

  "So ideally, when you start a conversation…it’s not just catching a lie. TED—Tell me, explain, describe. You start big. You get people talking."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (10:09)

• Adaptability: The ability to allow a person to meander in conversation before gently steering them back helps build trust and yields more information.

3. Understanding Personality Types in Conflict (14:55—17:02)

• Identity vs. Instructional Communicators: Some people want solutions (“instructional”), others want their feelings and stories heard (“identity”). Relationships thrive when you meet the other on their terms.

  "She doesn't want your solution... She wants you to listen to her. It's not even about solving it."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (15:56)

4. Observing Subtle Cues and Cultural Sensitivity (17:36—20:46)

• Polygraph as Conversation: The polygraph isn’t magic; it’s about noticing verbal shifts or odd emphases as the interviewer builds rapport and notes deviations.

• Intuition and Energy: Trusting your “gut” or intuition is valuable—sometimes you just feel when something is off.

  "You can see something. You can feel it. It's also feeling people... We should allow that and listen to that more."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (18:27)

• Be Wary of Red Flags: Overly emphatic denials or invoking oaths (“I swear to God!”) may be red flags, unless they match the person’s cultural or habitual language.

5. On Personal Honesty and Lying (23:48—26:41)

• Common Lies: Guest shares lighthearted personal lies (about food) and more complex deceptions from her own life, emphasizing no one is radically honest all the time.

• Lying for Protection: Sometimes lying or omitting truth can be a form of self-preservation or protecting relationships.

  "It's okay to lie... It's a protection mechanism. I don't want to tell you everything about me."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (25:05)

6. The Art of Saying No Thoughtfully (26:17—28:04)

• Preserving Relationships: Rejecting people with thought and care—by softening the language—helps maintain rapport and avoid unnecessary conflict.

  "No is ugly. No is mean. No is hurtful. So I can say, 'Thank you so much. I'll let you know,'... Find alternative ways to let people down."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (26:17)

7. True Stories from the Field: Deception and Confessions (28:13—32:44)

• Case Study: The guest recounts an ATM fraud case where despite overwhelming evidence, the suspect denied everything, highlighting how skilled liars can be (even fooling seasoned interrogators).
• Impact of Guilt: Crimes involving direct harm often elicit more guilt—and thus confessions—whereas financial fraud (especially against institutions) generates less shame.

8. Techniques for Commanding Authority and Building Rapport (37:33—41:07)

• Subtle Command: Use confident language to subtly direct—“Why don’t you use the bathroom before we begin”—sets an authoritative tone.
• Autonomy as Tactic: Alternately, allowing the other person to choose (seat, timing) offers autonomy, useful in diffusing resistance.
• Dating and Control: In first dates and vulnerable contexts, avoid dominance. Instead, focus on building trust and listening deeply.

9. Conditional Trust in Relationships (42:49—45:41)

• Law Enforcement Bias: Law enforcement tends to assume deceit; most people default to trust. Both have pitfalls.

• Recommendation: In early relationships (dating, business), use “conditional trust” until more trust is earned—don’t give everything away at once out of convenience.

  "Conditional trust means I have to be a bit more careful... You're less likely to get hurt in those situations."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (44:23)

10. Open-Ended Connection Questions (46:12—49:26)

• Connecting on Dates: Use TED questions to get people to share stories—creating connection organically.
• Indirect, Open-Ended Questions: E.g., “Tell me about your podcast” is better than “Who was your favorite guest?” as it invites more revealing, comfortable answers.

11. Noteworthy Presidential Stories on Greatness (49:26—53:36)

• Notable Leaders:
  • President George H.W. Bush—wrote handwritten thank-you notes; a small act, big impact.
  • President Obama—mastery of presence and communication, took time in speech signaling worthiness.
  • President George W. Bush—authenticity, same on and off camera.
• Lesson: Exposure to greatness in others can shape your own habits and character.

12. Nonverbal Authority and Building Trust (54:00—55:44)

• Authority by Presence: Real power requires less effort; small acts (eye contact) from the powerful carry more weight.
• Eye Contact: Key for building trust: cereal box mascots direct their gaze at target audience—same logic applies to human interaction.

13. Modern Boundaries: Touch, Masks, and Connection (56:44—59:17)

• Touch as Tactic: Formerly a tool for rapport, now discouraged due to cultural shifts and boundaries. Handshakes suffice—respect personal space.
• Reading People with Masks: Focus on vocal tone, inflection, spontaneous story corrections, and how someone relates details rather than just facial cues.

14. Spotting Truth in Communication (59:17—61:40)

• Story Arcs Indicate Lies: Manufactured alibi stories with a neat arc are suspect; real stories are messy and include spontaneous corrections.
• Detail and Specificity: Truthful people use specific details, spontaneous corrections, and “quotes”; liars stay vague.

15. Building Confidence and Resilience (62:12—64:53)

• Overcoming Self-Doubt:

  • Take risks, make decisions, embrace failure.
  • Stop outsourcing decisions—take accountability.
  • Avoid negative self-talk: treat yourself with respect in your internal dialogue.

  "The more you fail, the more confident you become. You can't fear failure."
  — Former Secret Service Agent (63:17)

16. Greatest Interrogator Skills (65:23—69:52)

• Listening: Take in what’s said, even when it’s unpleasant.

• Self-Control: Resist responding emotionally when attacked.

• Discernment: Reserve explanation for those who can understand; don’t waste energy on closed minds.

  "I have learned to not respond or to try not to respond... Does this person have the ability to understand the perspective I’m about to share?"
  — Former Secret Service Agent (67:53 & 69:52)

17. Final Wisdom: Three Truths (71:01—72:04)

• Three Truths:
  1. Do the right thing, even when unpopular.
  2. Make your own decisions and fail often—failure signals action and growth.
  3. If you’re not failing, you’re not doing anything.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "All people lie. The research varies. Some research says some people will lie 10 times within a conversation." — Former Secret Service Agent (06:43)
• "The number one way people lie is by omission." — Former Secret Service Agent (06:53)
• "TED—Tell me, Explain, Describe... You want them to tell you a story." — Former Secret Service Agent (10:09)
• "Curiosity is wonderful. So let them tell you stuff. Ask questions because you're curious." — Former Secret Service Agent (12:53)
• "We tend to give people trust unconditionally. In early relationships, always use conditional trust." — Former Secret Service Agent (43:41)
• "If you have a victim mentality a lot, maybe step it up and defend yourself a little more." — Lewis Howes (69:11)
• "Do the right thing, even when it's not the most popular thing to do." — Former Secret Service Agent (71:01)
• "The more you fail, it means the more you're doing and the more you're putting yourself out there." — Former Secret Service Agent (71:42)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:29 — Opening discussion: Everyone lies, polygraph and trust
• 06:53 — Lying by omission explained
• 10:09 — TED method for uncovering truth
• 14:55 — Identity-based vs. Instructional communicators in arguments
• 18:27 — Gut feelings: the value of intuition in reading people
• 26:17 — The art of saying "no" to protect relationships
• 28:13 — Case study: the unflappable ATM scam suspect
• 37:33 — Building authority through subtle behaviors
• 42:49 — Conditional trust in relationships
• 46:12 — Best questions to ask on a first date (TED framework)
• 49:26 — Presidential stories: handwritten notes and authentic presence
• 54:00 — Power signals: eye contact and subtle authority
• 59:17 — Reading written statements and the structure of lies
• 62:12 — Building confidence by embracing risk and avoiding indecision
• 65:23 — The three greatest interrogator skills
• 71:01 — The three truths for a fulfilling life

Key Takeaways

• Everyone lies—a little or a lot—and often it’s for self-protection or social cohesion.
• The most effective way to read people requires patience, curiosity, and establishing a behavioral baseline—not relying on one-size-fits-all cues.
• Use open-ended “TED” questions to deepen conversations and reveal truth.
• Conditional trust protects you, particularly in new or ambiguous relationships.
• Great leaders (and interviewers) listen more than they speak, control their emotions, and choose words and actions with care.
• Confidence is built by risking, failing, and persisting, not by playing it safe.
• Small acts—like handwritten notes, genuine eye contact—matter, whether in the White House or everyday life.

This detailed summary captures all rich insights, actionable habits, and memorable wisdom from the former Secret Service agent’s conversation with Lewis Howes, equipping listeners and non-listeners alike with tools to better read people, communicate thoughtfully, and build deeper trust in any setting.