How To Turn Self-Doubt Into Your Superpower - The Mindset of Champions

Summary

The School of Greatness: How To Turn Self-Doubt Into Your Superpower - The Mindset of Champions

Host: Lewis Howes
Guests: Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, and Rebecca Quinn
Release Date: December 13, 2024

In this empowering episode of The School of Greatness, host Lewis Howes delves deep into the transformative journeys of three remarkable individuals—NBA legend Dwyane Wade, the late basketball icon Kobe Bryant, and WWE star Rebecca Quinn. Together, they explore how self-doubt can be harnessed into a formidable superpower, shaping the mindset of true champions.

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I. Introduction

Lewis Howes sets the stage by emphasizing the session's purpose: to unlock personal greatness by learning from the most successful minds in sports and entertainment. The episode promises profound insights into overcoming self-doubt and cultivating a champion’s mindset.

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II. Dwyane Wade: From Humble Beginnings to NBA Stardom

A. Early Life and Influences ([03:24]-[04:15])

Dwyane Wade opens up about his childhood, highlighting the pivotal role his parents played in fostering his imagination and work ethic. "They taught me that... all things are possible if you put in the work to do it," Wade shares ([03:24]).

B. Overcoming Early Failures ([04:01]-[05:08])

Wade recounts a challenging summer in the Sunny Hill League, where he didn't score a single point. Devastated, he felt the sting of failure but found solace in his father's unwavering support: "Whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what" ([04:40]). This experience instilled in him the confidence to embrace failure as a stepping stone to success.

C. Development of Mindset and Habits ([07:55]-[09:22])

Wade emphasizes the importance of meticulous preparation and self-analysis. Under the mentorship of assistant coach Tex Winner, Wade spent countless hours reviewing game footage. "It taught me to look at detail... body language... tactics," he explains ([08:00]). This habit not only enhanced his gameplay but also allowed him to anticipate and react effectively during matches.

He draws parallels to other athletes like Tom Brady and Beyoncé, who obsessively review their performances to continuously improve. "It's an obsessiveness that comes along with it... You want things to be as perfect as they can be" ([09:36]).

D. Leadership and Team Dynamics ([10:04]-[13:26])

As Wade transitioned into a leadership role, he faced challenges in fostering empathy and compassion among his teammates. "The challenge for me was always compassion and empathy" ([12:02]). He learned to balance high expectations with understanding his teammates' personal struggles, thereby strengthening team cohesion and performance.

E. Pride in Achievements ([13:34]-[15:37])

Reflecting on his career, Wade expresses immense pride in leading his team to victory against the Celtics in Game 7. "What you need is the spirit of your team... We're down 15 points in the fourth quarter... we were able to collectively dig deep together" ([15:37]). This moment encapsulates the power of teamwork and resilience.

F. Transition After Retirement ([15:37]-[18:10])

Post-retirement, Wade discusses the fear of starting anew and the importance of finding passion beyond basketball. An Achilles injury became a catalyst for his entrepreneurial ventures. "Hurting forced me to sit there and say, okay, the day could be today that your career is over... I better get to work" ([16:32]). His journey underscores the necessity of adaptability and continuous self-improvement.

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III. Kobe Bryant: Mastering the Mind

A. Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Hard Work ([26:01]-[28:02])

Kobe Bryant speaks candidly about his relentless work ethic and fearlessness. "Not being afraid of hard work... that's honestly what it takes to succeed" ([26:01]). He shares how enduring physical and emotional trials on the court fortified his mental strength, allowing him to persevere through setbacks.

B. Lessons from Parenting and Spirituality ([31:17]-[34:28])

Bryant attributes much of his resilience to the lessons learned from his parents. "One of the biggest gifts my parents gave me was spirituality... it's so important to have something to believe in" ([31:17]). This foundation provided him with hope and grounded him amidst the pressures of fame and success.

C. Building Confidence and Authenticity ([44:28]-[45:44])

Bryant advocates for shifting focus from appearance to inner capability. "It doesn't matter what you look like. It matters what's inside of you" ([44:28]). He highlights the detrimental effects of societal pressures, such as low body confidence leading young girls to quit sports, and underscores the importance of authentic self-belief.

D. Mental and Emotional Preparedness ([40:28]-[43:46])

Discussing the pressures of fame, Kobe shares his encounters with imposter syndrome. "I've had plenty of times where I was like, you know, oh my God... but at the end, I always felt like I was worthy and that I deserved it" ([20:10]). He emphasizes the necessity of self-awareness and maintaining mental fortitude to navigate the complexities of success.

E. The Art of Letting Go and Moving Forward ([28:27]-[32:32])

Bryant reflects on personal weaknesses, particularly his challenges with emotional intelligence and patience. By recognizing these areas, he learned to seek support and improve his interpersonal relationships. "Once I became aware of it... because during COVID I had a friend stay with me... I had to learn how impatient I was" ([34:28]).

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IV. Rebecca Quinn: Embracing Authenticity Through Wrestling

A. Building Confidence Through Wrestling ([47:32]-[77:36])

Rebecca Quinn narrates her tumultuous journey from struggling with self-confidence to finding her true passion in professional wrestling. At 15, facing academic and personal challenges, she turned to wrestling as an outlet. "I needed to turn my life around... I needed to do something different" ([48:26]). Wrestling provided her with a community and a sense of purpose, boosting her self-esteem and resilience.

B. Overcoming Physical and Emotional Struggles ([56:35]-[60:40])

Quinn shares the intense and often harsh experiences of professional wrestling, including unhealthy dieting and the psychological toll of constantly proving herself. "I completely destroyed myself... I ended up bulimic... it took a long time to shake that" ([57:16]-[60:40]). Her candid account highlights the importance of authenticity and the dangers of conforming to societal standards for validation.

C. The Power of Storytelling and Authentic Performance ([65:31]-[77:36])

Emphasizing storytelling as the heart of wrestling, Quinn describes how authentic narratives transcend scripted performances. "Storytelling is what moves the world... I love just something coming to me and building from that" ([65:34]-[77:36]). Her experiences illustrate how genuine expression and creativity can lead to impactful and memorable performances.

D. Three Truths for the World ([81:13]-[83:03])

In a poignant segment, Quinn leaves behind three essential lessons:

1. Believe in Yourself: "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will complete you" ([81:13]).
2. Be Kind to One Another: "Just be nice to people... we need more goodness in the world" ([82:32]).
3. Embrace Authenticity Through Art: Encouraging others to pursue their passion and express their true selves without fear of judgment.

These truths encapsulate Quinn's journey towards self-acceptance and her desire to inspire others to live authentically.

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V. Conclusion

In this episode, Lewis Howes masterfully orchestrates a conversation that unpacks the intricate relationship between self-doubt and greatness. Through the stories of Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, and Rebecca Quinn, listeners gain invaluable insights into the importance of resilience, self-awareness, and authenticity. The guests collectively emphasize that greatness is not merely about innate talent but about the relentless pursuit of improvement, the courage to face failures, and the ability to remain true to oneself amidst external pressures.

Notable Quotes:

• Dwyane Wade: "Whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what." ([04:40])
• Kobe Bryant: "It doesn't matter what you look like. It matters what's inside of you." ([44:28])
• Rebecca Quinn: "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will complete you." ([81:13])

This episode serves as a testament to turning self-doubt into a driving force for personal and professional excellence, inspiring listeners to unlock their inner greatness and navigate their paths with confidence and purpose.

Transcript

[Lewis Howes]

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[Kobe Bryant]

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[Lewis Howes]

The School of Greatness is sponsored by Capital One Capital One. Credit card holders can easily track, block or cancel recurring charges right from the Capital One mobile app at no additional cost. With one sign in, you can manage all your subscriptions all in one place. Learn [e-mail] Subscriptions Terms and Conditions apply. The School of Greatness is presented by Ford Pro. First and foremost, the thing that powers your business is power. And when it comes to power, Ford Pro has options. Scratch that, they've got every option. Diesel, gas, hybrid, all electric. Plus they're all connected, so you're always in the driver's seat. The power is yours. Visit fordpro.com for more details. The thing I love the most about you is that you really care about other human beings. Your heart is so big, even though you've been known for this focus mentality that is just almost psycho in some ways. But you care deeply about human beings and I think that's why so many people love you as well. So I want to acknowledge you for your kindness and your generosity towards humanity. My first Question for you is I'm curious about who was your greatest teacher growing up because you had an interesting childhood. Being in Italy for a while, coming back to Philadelphia, I think it was.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Who was the greatest teacher for you in those early days?

[Dwyane Wade]

It's funny, I have a lot of them. My parents were great, you know, growing up, you know, they instilled in me the importance of imagination, of curiosity, understanding that, okay, if you want to accomplish something, I'm not just going to sit here and say, yes, you can do whatever you want, yes, you can. But you have to also put in the work to get there. Right. So they taught me that at a really early age, man. And when you grow up as a kid thinking that the world is your oyster, all things are possible if you put in the work to do it. You know, you grew up having that fundamental belief.

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Who was more influential for you? You're father or mother?

[Dwyane Wade]

Both were influential at different points. Yeah, right. My mom was there on a daily basis. My father was really influential at a really critical time. Where I had a summer where I played basketball when I was like 10 or 11 years old in a very prominent summer league in Philadelphia called the Sunny Hill League, where my father played, my uncle played, and they were like all time greats and stuff. And boat Chamberlain played in the league, early promo playing league. And here I come playing and I don't score one point the entire summer. Really? Not one.

[Lewis Howes]

How old were you?

[Dwyane Wade]

11, 10, 11.

[Lewis Howes]

You're playing against other 10, 11 year olds. You didn't score once?

[Dwyane Wade]

Not one.

[Lewis Howes]

Were you in the game?

[Dwyane Wade]

I was in the game.

[Lewis Howes]

How'd you not score?

[Dwyane Wade]

Because I was terrible. Really? Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

That happened 10, 11 years old, you were that awful?

[Dwyane Wade]

I mean, you know, and I had these big knee pads on because I was growing really fast and I had socks all the way up here and I had like the pie top, skinny, like skinny as. And I scored. Not a free throw, not a nothing, not a lucky shot, not a breakaway layup, zero points. And I remember crying about it and being upset about it. And my father just gave me a hug and said, listen, whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

Now that is the most important thing that you can say to a child. Because from there I was like, okay, it gives me all the confidence in the world to fail. I have the security there. But with that, I'm scoring 60, let's go. Right, right, right. And from there I just went to work. I just stayed with it. I Kept practicing, Kept practicing, kept practicing.

[Lewis Howes]

Is that when you think the mentality of hard work started to come in for you at that age? When you failed so miserably? I guess that summer, I think that's.

[Dwyane Wade]

When the idea of understanding a long term view became important. Because I wasn't going to catch these kids in a week, I wasn't gonna catch him in a year. Right. So that's when I sat down and said, okay, this is gonna take some thought. Right. What I wanna work on first. All right, Shooting. All right, let's knock this out. Let's focus on this. Half a year, six months, do nothing but shoot right after that. All right. Creating your own shot. And then you focus. So you start. I started creating a menu of things. When I came back the next summer, I was a little bit better. Right.

[Lewis Howes]

I met you being like, I've got my jump shot from 15. I've got my.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah, I got my jump shot from 15. I got my three point shot, like just open shots. Not miss open shots. Right. And be able to shoot it with speed because those kids are so much more athletic. Yeah. And then the next summer I came back, was a little better. The summer came back, it was a little better. I scored.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

It wasn't much, Right. But I scored.

[Lewis Howes]

This is 12, 13.

[Dwyane Wade]

12, 13. Then 14 came around back half of 13, 14 years old. And then I was just killing everyone. And it happened in two years. And I wasn't expecting to happen in two years, but it did. Because what I had to do was work on the basics and the fundamentals. Well, they relied on athleticism and their natural ability. And because I stick to the fundamentals, it just caught up to them. And then my body, you know, my knees stopped hurting. I grew into my frame.

[Lewis Howes]

And then your athleticism, once you have the fundamentals.

[Dwyane Wade]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

The hard work, the mindset, and you tack on the athleticism, then it was game over. What was your routine and ritual like after every game? Would you watch almost every game over or certain games?

[Dwyane Wade]

All of them.

[Lewis Howes]

Every game.

[Dwyane Wade]

You watch every game?

[Lewis Howes]

The whole game?

[Dwyane Wade]

The whole game.

[Lewis Howes]

No way.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. So it started with me when I was a. When Phil Jackson's his first year here with the Lakers. One of assistant coaches, his name was Tex Winner and I call him Yoda. I mean, he was like 82 when he got here.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

And he was responsible for teaching me the triangle offense.

[Lewis Howes]

How old were you then?

[Dwyane Wade]

I was 21.

[Lewis Howes]

So three years, four years in the league.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. So about my fourth year.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay.

[Dwyane Wade]

And so I go up to his room. And this is when there were no iPads or anything like that. Right. So when you're on the road. Yeah. You have to call down to the front desk and they have to bring up the TV with the whole, you know, the rolly thing and the VHS and the cassette tape. You pop it in and I thought we were going to watch what we call touches. So watch all your touches when you have the ball. All the decisions you make, good ones and bad. No, we're watching the start of the game.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dwyane Wade]

To the end of the game. And not like the TV feed. We're watching the in arena feed, the layup line, the timeouts.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. Rewinding. Stopping. Fast forward. Rewinding. Slow motion. Every little thing, every game of that season with the 82 year old Yoda.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh my gosh.

[Dwyane Wade]

Who is as brutally honest as you can get.

[Lewis Howes]

What did that teach you that season?

[Dwyane Wade]

No, it taught me to look at detail. Look at things that they're smallest. Look at body language. Look at the energy between players, our team and the other team.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

Look at the tactics, look at the overall strategy and look at how tactically things are manifesting themselves. And because I watched so much film then it gave me the ability to see game in real time, as if I was watching film.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

Where I can see. Because a lot of times the game starts moving really fast. But if you train yourself to watch hours and hours of film, the game's not moving that fast anymore. You can really recognize who's doing what and why. Then you can position guys in the right places in real time.

[Lewis Howes]

Seeing it before it happens. Yeah. On football we'd watch it once a week. Game film. But not after every game. It was only one game a week. You got like three a week sometimes.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. You got to go.

[Lewis Howes]

I know. Tom Brady is obsessive over game film as well. I mean, watching his show that came out, Thomas, the time was all about him just in there studying. Even months after the game, he's studying to prepare. Right.

[Dwyane Wade]

It's just like he's a stop.

[Lewis Howes]

And that's. That's one of the keys. You think it's like if you're not watching film, whether it be as a speaker on stage or a performer and a musician, if you're not watching yourself.

[Dwyane Wade]

Back, you gotta learn, man. I mean, Beyonce's same. Same thing, really. After a performance, she's immediately on her laptop rewatching the performance. No way. Yes. Seeing how to do things better. What could we have done differently?

[Lewis Howes]

Right?

[Dwyane Wade]

I mean, it's just. It's an obsessiveness that comes along with it. You want things to be as perfect as they can be, understanding that nothing is ever perfect. But the challenge is try to get them as perfect as they can be. And what can you do? It's in your control. So control what you can. I can watch film all day long.

[Lewis Howes]

It's going to help me get better.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yes, yes.

[Lewis Howes]

Now, did you have your teammates also follow on this obsessiveness that you had as well, or did you just encourage them? Or what was the.

[Dwyane Wade]

No, you can't push somebody to do that. Right. But what you can do is alter behavior and also change the vernacular of how they speak about the game. So on team buses, team planes, in a locker room after practice, I would look at the film. I'd pull Powell, Lamar D. Fish, pull them aside and say, let's look at this, right? We probably should have done this, that, and the other.

[Lewis Howes]

So you'll show them the game from a little bit here and there.

[Dwyane Wade]

Then you speak to them in executional terms. It's never, come on, guys, we can do better. Come on, guys, we can do better. That's rah rah stuff, right? Leader must give very tactical, you know, things that we can do. Adjustments. Okay. The defense is doing this, that, and the other. That means we should probably do this, this, this. By midway through the season, through that behavior, you start seeing them communicating the same way back to you, right? And it's like, okay, Cole, they're doing this, that, and the other to you. Maybe we should do this. Like, okay, yeah, awesome. Great. Let's do it. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. What about season 16, 17, 18? Are you still watching every game film as obsessively as the first 10 years?

[Dwyane Wade]

Not now, no. Well, when I was playing.

[Lewis Howes]

When you were playing, yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

So when I was playing, what I would do is study the film, but study our younger players and see what areas do they need to develop in and how can I help them develop? I mean, that was the big challenge. As you move from being the single dominant player to understanding, okay, I have to help these other guys, how do.

[Lewis Howes]

I lift everyone else up?

[Dwyane Wade]

It's tough.

[Lewis Howes]

I mean, you were so dominant in your whole career. One of the greatest of all time. Was there a weakness that you had or did you. Because obviously, you're always trying to master your weaknesses, so they became strengths. But at the end or towards the end, did you ever feel like, gosh, I still haven't, like, mastered this one part of the game?

[Dwyane Wade]

The challenge for me was always compassion and empathy.

[Lewis Howes]

Because you're like, guys, let's go get results. Shut up. Don't complain. Right?

[Dwyane Wade]

I want to hear your whining. I don't want to hear it. No excuses. Don't tell me how rough the water is. Just bring the boat in, you know, Like, I don't want to hear it, you know? And it's. That's funny. It's understanding, like, okay, these guys have lives outside of here.

[Lewis Howes]

They have other things happening, other things.

[Dwyane Wade]

Happening to them that may be affecting the way that they're practicing or the way that they're performing. Right. And it was hard for me to understand that because nothing. Nothing bothered me, you know, anything personally. That never phased me when I played.

[Lewis Howes]

You compartmentalized it very well.

[Dwyane Wade]

And so I couldn't understand how my teammates couldn't do that either until I, you know, so I had to really work on that aspect of it.

[Lewis Howes]

That's hard.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah, it is.

[Lewis Howes]

Did you feel like you never really had the compassion you wish you would have had, like, until the last maybe couple of years?

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. So I think about 09, things started changing for me. I started really making a conscious effort to better understand. And that doesn't mean you have compassion and empathy. So you go soft on them. It's more like you put. You put yourself to the side and you put yourself in their shoes and understand what they're feeling. And then you have to make certain decisions of, okay, what buttons do I need to push for this player to get them to the next level? So it's never. It's not sit around and all. It's all happy, go lucky type of thing. Your leader, your job is to get the best out of them, even if they may not like it at that time.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. Wow. What are you most proud of from your 20 seasons?

[Dwyane Wade]

Honestly? Sounds. May sound a little shallow, but I gotta say, beating the Celtics in Game 7, that's what I'm most proud of because it was. It was the hardest. You know, you're playing with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, All Stars, Ray Allen, and, you know, it was myself, Powell, and players that other teams didn't want. And, you know, how do we figure out as a group what to do? And the reason why I love that series so much is that we went down three games to two against Boston, and now you got two games coming home. I remember sitting in the locker room and they beat the crap out of us, too, that game. So we're sitting in a locker room and it's really, really quiet. I'm sitting there looking around, and we just lost the Celtics in.08. So this is like revenge, right? And they're kicking our butt again, right? So I sit around. I just started laughing. I started laughing. And then I remember Derrick Fisher looked at me like. And Lamar looked at me and goes, what? What is funny? I said, dude, they beat the crap out. They just beat the crap out and say, I'm missing the part where that's funny. I said, man, listen, if we start this season and they say, you know, all you have to do is win two games at home and you're NBA champ. Would you take that? Yeah. And, like, right. That's all we gotta do.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Go home, win two. We're NBA champions. All we gotta do is win two games in a row. That's it. We'll take care of the first game. And I promise you, they're not winning game seven on our home floor. It's not happening. So we all just laughed about it, and then we went out and we figured it out. But that game seven was. We're down 15 points in the fourth quarter. Right. And that's when you have to collectively look at each other and say, you know, the spirit of your team must be good, because at that moment is when teams fracture. If the energy amongst each other isn't there, that trust isn't there. You're done. And we were able to collectively dig deep together and say, all right, we're going to figure this thing out.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

And I wasn't playing well. I wasn't shooting the ball well at all. And so my teammates picked you up and they delivered.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes. Wow. What do you think the biggest challenge is for most athletes after they retire?

[Dwyane Wade]

I think it's the fear of starting anew, and that was certainly present for me as well. Really? Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Like identity, you mean, or.

[Dwyane Wade]

Well, it's. It's starting from scratch, right? Because when you. When you play for 20 years. I play for 20 years, you reach a certain level, you're like, okay, wait a minute. I have to start again at the base of a mountain and try to climb the top of this mountain. First of all, what mountain am I climbing? I don't even know, like, what the. Am I going to be doing? And it's very. It's very scary. It's very scary.

[Lewis Howes]

Even for you.

[Dwyane Wade]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing that helped me actually was hurting my Achilles, because that forced me to sit there and say, okay, the day could be today that your career is over at any time.

[Lewis Howes]

When you were playing, I mean, yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Now what do you do? You have these ideas about doing something with your life after basketball, but what if today is the day that you. That's it. Now what do you do? So I had all this time sitting there with my Achilles injury and contemplating and thinking, and I said, I better get to work.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Dwyane Wade]

That was. That.

[Lewis Howes]

What was the vision for you afterwards then? Was it to do what you're doing now? Did you have other ideas? Or what is. What's the vision?

[Dwyane Wade]

I struggled with it at first, because the first question I asked, which is the wrong question, is, what's the biggest industry I can get into? Was it more money thinking or money thinking saying, okay. Athletes are saying, you can't make more revenue when you retire. This is your source of your income is here saying, okay, that's a challenge. What can I do? And I remember going for.

[Lewis Howes]

Didn't you launch a fund or something?

[Dwyane Wade]

I did. I did. And so I started. I went for a ride, and I said, okay, stop thinking of it that way. You're thinking of it the wrong way. Why'd you start playing basketball? Because I loved it. What do you love to do? Oh, I love to tell stories. All right, let's do that. And then that's where it started for me. And. And then on top of that, it became things like, you know, you start learning more about the financial industry and about players going broke once they retire and saying, okay, how can I. How can I minimize the chances of that happening? What are things that I can do to invest my money smartly, also help control some of that outcome to a certain extent? And that's when I called Mike Rapole. Mike Rapole was an entrepreneur who built Vitamin Water Pirates Booty, and some other companies and started learning from him.

[Lewis Howes]

Storytelling is something you're really passionate about. What's a story over your life that's been a constant theme that you go back to? Is there something you heard as a kid that you. That really resonates with you? Or a book or a movie that just feels like, this is me?

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah, that's funny. Movies, there are plenty. But there's a quote from one of my English teachers at lord Marion named Mr. Fisk. He had a great quote that said, rest at the end, not in the middle. Not gonna rest. I'm gonna keep on pushing. Now, there are a lot of answers that I don't have, even questions that I don't have, But I'm just gonna keep going. I'm just gonna keep going, and I'll Figure these things out as you go. Right. And you just continue to build that way.

[Lewis Howes]

Rest at the end.

[Dwyane Wade]

Rest at the end.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the question that eats you alive the most that you haven't answered yet?

[Dwyane Wade]

The question that eats me alive that I haven't answered yet.

[Lewis Howes]

You're still looking for the answer?

[Dwyane Wade]

I'm still looking for the answer. How to tell a good story. I don't think anybody has that answer. You know, like when I, when I sat down to write Dear Basketball, I was like, okay, what do I want to say? And you know, you have certain acts and how you can structure certain things. Right. The ebbs and flows of story, certain formulas that have been there since the beginning of time. But it's such an. In that. An exact science.

[Lewis Howes]

So challenging. Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right. And so that one question is really interesting.

[Lewis Howes]

Why do you want to tell a great story?

[Dwyane Wade]

I think stories is what moves the world. Whether it's an inspirational story, it's an informational one. Nothing in this world moves without story.

[Lewis Howes]

Why do you think so many people struggle with self confidence and self belief today? Is it social media, outside influences? Is it people just don't think they're good enough? Like how, how come you were able to drink the Kool Aid and stay in that environment and not let outside forces creep in?

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah, I think that's important. And I think there's a difference between having self belief at your core and having situational moments where you don't feel good about it. Right. I. There's a hundred times more that I've walked on the court and just didn't feel great, you know, like, I don't know if I can do this. Right. So that's different than ultimately deep down knowing I have what it takes to do it. So those are two different things. Right. So I would say, yeah, there have been plenty of times where I was like, you know, oh my God. But at the end, I always felt like I was worthy and that I deserved it. And that's purely my background. It was purely my parents who just gave us that from the very beginning. Like there was nothing else I ever heard since I could remember. So I was very fortunate in that sense. And I think as an adult, I've definitely faced some moments where I have felt like I don't know if I belong here. And, you know, that was. Yeah, that, that, that felt like.

[Lewis Howes]

What situations do you mean?

[Kobe Bryant]

I guess they call it imposter syndrome.

[Lewis Howes]

Really?

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah. So I've had different moments. I'm working with a new AI company with interior Design. I'm thinking, should I really be here? I mean, I have a background in interior design. And then I had to fundraise for the first time. This was a nightmare for me, really. And oh my God, like, the anxiety and the, the issues going into it was horrible. And I. That's the moment where I understood imposter syndrome. So I went through my whole life of like, pretty much feeling like, you know, king of the court. And then I get there and have to raise money. I'm like, I don't want to be here. I'm so afraid what's happening. So I think that was a great experience for me and I think that I saw it for what it was and I knew I had to push through, but it was extraordinarily uncomfortable. It was.

[Lewis Howes]

What was so uncomfortable about it? Was it doing something you'd never done before, like getting out of your comfort zone and asking to raise money for something that maybe you're new at? Is that what it was?

[Kobe Bryant]

Exactly. My parents, once again, back to them. My mom said, never ask for anything. So just for me to have to ask, like, you know, we're raising money, we need you to give us this. Oh, no, I have to ask for money. This is out of my DNA. I don't ask for anything. I'm used to be able to do everything for myself. Also just a pitch, like in AI, like, I don't know anything about AI. I had to learn new terms. What am I doing here? Just in general, I think on the second call, the person I was pitching with, they fell off. So they asked me, okay, yeah, what are next steps in the timeline? And I'm all by myself and you have to, you have to say something, you know, and so those kinds of things happen and you're completely unprepared and it's like, how do you deal with it? But I absolutely think that my experience in sport helped me to deal with that kind of. Dealing with ambio icky, it's just, it's not easy. But sometimes you don't know what's going to happen when you walk on the court, but you have to deal with it. So I think that helped. But by no means it was a tough situation. Do I ever want to fundraise again. Absolutely not. I hope I don't have to. It's not a place I'd like to be, but it was, it was, it was good to be very humbled.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Kobe Bryant]

Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

What do you think was the greatest skill that you developed in your training on the court? And as an athlete that you're able to translate into these moments of raising money for a business. The holiday season is here and it's time to decide what gifts to get for the people in your life. And you want to make sure that they're the right gifts, correct? Well, Walmart can help you be a thoughtful gift giver this season with a quality assortment of OMG worthy gifts that include top brands, the latest tech and gadgets, new and trending items, plus stylish fashion. Shopping for gifts at Walmart allows you to give the gifts that show you get them, and you get them at Walmart prices. Picture this, your loved ones lighting up as they unwrap a Keurig, a Lego set, or even the Ninja Creamy ice cream maker. How about a gift that creates lasting memories like a Barbie bike or a Roku Stream Bar Se. So if if you love finding just the right thing for just the right person, head to Walmart today. Give the gifts that show you get them at Walmart. For all my entrepreneurs out there, I know how overwhelming the workload can feel. Your Job description It's everything. Emails to answer, social posts to create, maybe even assembling furniture for the office. And if you're an employer, you can add hiring to the list. But now there's Hope. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter finds qualified candidates fast, and today you can try it for free. As a recruiter.com greatness. ZipRecruiter smart technology instantly matches your job listing with top candidates. No wasted time, no wasted money. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. For me, building the right team has been one of the most important and crucial steps in growing my business. It's everything. It's not just about skills, it's about finding people who truly fit. So I'm so grateful that I have Zip recruiter's help with my growing team. Let ZipRecruiter find top talent for your roles in no time at all. See why four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com greatness right now, you can try it for free. That's the same price as laughing so hard that your size hurt or getting a compliment from a random stranger. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com greatness. ZipRecruiter the smartest way to Hire Here's a way you can show up for Yourself right now. Start saving and investing smarter with help from Fidelity. With accounts that fit your goals and tools to help you make progress, Fidelity can help you save for today and make more possible for tomorrow. Get started with just a [e-mail] starttoday that's fidelity.com starttoday Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[Kobe Bryant]

Well, I mean, it's hard to pick one, right? I'm a workhorse. I don't mind working day and night. I'll work all day, work all night and start over again, Repeat. I think that lack of fear of laying it on the line. Blood, sweat, tears, leave your heart out there, walk off on a stretch or not even walk off, be carried off on a stretcher. So that kind of thing, not being afraid of hard work, I think a lot of people are afraid of that level of intensity. But that's honestly what it takes to succeed. The people who are succeeding. A lot of times you see folks, when they get to the finish line, the trophies up, right, they played a beautiful match or created an unbelievable business. Now you see them and there are billions. You never heard of them before. You didn't see them the 10 or 15 years that they put it. You didn't see their failures beforehand. No one sees, you know, the injuries that you have or on the court when you just can't get it right, and the frustration and the back and forth and the losses. So all of those things really teach you all the lessons you need in life and, and the failures too, the failures that you have to get back up and you still have to believe in yourself just as much. And if you don't still pretend at least that you do, sometimes just faking it is enough. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to get there. And I think being okay with not knowing, but knowing that there is a point A to point B and you got to get to point B and it's okay not to exactly know, but you know, you're, you know, you're swimming through the water, you're climbing the mountain. Whatever you face, you have to do it on your terms.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. Have you ever been afraid of failure or have you just been confident it really for sure?

[Kobe Bryant]

For sure. Everyone is. But you can't, you can't let it stop you. My mom always said fear is the devil. And also you have to think about the decisions you would make if you weren't afraid. You know, like, if I wasn't afraid, what shot would I actually go for, you know, what would I try? What. What would I give up Also, if I weren't afraid? A lot of times it's not even about going forward or actually, what would you let leave behind?

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting.

[Kobe Bryant]

A lot of times we hang on to stuff that's just holding us back. And also, if you aren't afraid, are you, Then you can actually look at yourself. I think sports teaches you self awareness. And I have a real thing for not being self aware. And being around people who aren't self aware bothers the heck out of me, you know? So if you're not self aware, if you do not tell yourself the truth, you will not win.

[Dwyane Wade]

Wow.

[Kobe Bryant]

That's what life is about. Winning and being honest with yourself.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the thing, speaking of holding on to things, what's the thing that you, in your life held onto for the longest period that once you let go of it, allowed you to step up in a greater way as an athlete or a human or, you know, in business? What was that thing?

[Kobe Bryant]

You know, this is going to sound weird, but I'm. I'm a person who's always involved in the arts. And when you are buying art for me, I buy or look at art that I love because it makes me happy and I find it beautiful. There is no category. I don't buy just this or that. And so over the years, when you look back, you're like, I should have gotten that piece. I thought about it, or, I should have invested in this artist. And it's about buying work that you love and you get to live with it. Right? And so I would walk through art fairs and everywhere you looked was someone else that I just didn't get that has, like, blown up now. And I think finally, once I let that go, I let it go. I felt such peace, you know, just like such peace of like, it's fine, that was hard. And I know that's a weird answer.

[Lewis Howes]

So the letting go of. The letting go of, oh, I should have invested in this, I should have taken this action and beating yourself up, you let that part of you go.

[Kobe Bryant]

For that, I had to let that go. And now I feel free.

[Lewis Howes]

So that's good. That's good.

[Kobe Bryant]

I know you weren't expecting that answer, but.

[Lewis Howes]

No, whatever's on your heart and mind, what do you think, regret, what do you think has been the emotion that you've had that you held onto for too long in your life that when you let go, allows you to be a better human being, a better athlete.

[Kobe Bryant]

A better, you know, person in Your family, really? No, I mean an emotion or belief.

[Lewis Howes]

Or beliefs or beliefs.

[Kobe Bryant]

I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't hold on to things. I think that's one of my strengths that I can let go outside of that art thing. But you. Things happen as they happen. I think I would hold on to things if I was continuing to make the same mistakes over and over. But I'm human. I make mistakes. Sometimes I make a decision that could have been better, but I learn from it immediately. I accept responsibility for it, and I move on. And I think that's all you can do. Right. So you can't hold on to stuff. Right. Unless you have a time machine and you can go backwards, but otherwise there's no point.

[Lewis Howes]

What would you say, you know, your parents, obviously, I think a lot of people know about your parents making a big impact in your life. You speak about them a lot. What would you say was the greatest lesson that each of your parents taught you growing up that you still hold on to today and implement today in your life?

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah, you know what? That's hard because there were so many lessons. You have to understand everything was a lesson. Even watching a cartoon was a lesson. Like, there was nothing that wasn't a lesson. So I'm so grateful for that. And as I've, you know, had time to spend around my nieces, I just feel like I've just totally failed because I've made. I feel like I haven't made anything a lesson yet. Like, I gotta bring my parents energy to this. But I think one of the biggest gifts my parents gave me was spirituality. It's so important to have something to believe in. It's so important to have hope. The world's a beautiful place, but it's a tough place, too. And if you don't have belief in values, you will do anything. And then you'll get anything. If you don't have hope, it's going to be hard to get through this world where so many things happen. And it's not even to you, but to other people that you hear about. That's so disheartening. So all that is very grounding. And I think it helps you to let go of stuff. It helps you to play better in your game. It helps you to realize, like, I'm gonna give my everything to this. And if I feel that's fine, I have something bigger and better that's backing me up. And I think it just lets you be happy. So to me, that's the biggest gift that they gave me.

[Lewis Howes]

It is.

[Kobe Bryant]

I'm just like my mom, though. I'm my family. Joke's transformation complete. We're exactly the same, and I'm proud of that. I love being just like her. But we have our weaknesses. We definitely have weaknesses.

[Lewis Howes]

What is your weakness that you think you could improve on?

[Kobe Bryant]

0 patience.

[Lewis Howes]

It's me, too.

[Kobe Bryant]

I can't always read the room as well as I like. My emotional intelligence isn't as high as I'd like it to be, and that's not something I can fix. You're born how you are, and I just tell people I'm empathetic, but I don't always pick up on it. Just tell me. I'll be there. Just may not know. So you got to let me in on some things. And I think once I became aware of it, because during COVID I had a friend stay with me, and, like, the friend came and, like, ate all the food, drank all the drinks, didn't get groceries. So I'm, like, buying food, buying drinks, buying groceries, and pay the rent. Yeah, everything, you know, because we just. We thought it was going to be a few weeks, and it lasted months. Right. It was a fun experience, but I had to learn how impatient I was. And also, the standard I hold for myself is so high. But because of the standard my parents held, like, we weren't even allowed to walk slow. My dad would say, slow walker, slow thinker. You can't walk slow. So everything was fast, quick. So I learned to do things so quickly, so fast, so efficient, that then you know someone else is in your house, and you see that they're moving so slow. You're like, this can be done in a minute. Like, what are you doing? And you know, my house is someone else's. So I never complained. Complained about it, but it was like, buy some groceries. Like, you can't just eat all the food, you know? So I learned a lot about myself, and I realized that I needed to work on my eq. And then I realized that some people had more of it and others don't. So I always. My family helps me understand things and situations. They're like my crutch.

[Dwyane Wade]

Are you.

[Lewis Howes]

Do you feel like you're just overly generous and not. You're not thinking, oh, is this person just taking advantage or just maybe they weren't thinking about contributing?

[Kobe Bryant]

No, not even that. But, like, at once, I was at a party, and I was talking to some friends, and then one of my friends came over, and when she left, everyone said, what's wrong? With her, she seemed horribly sad and I never saw it. And so I said, wait, let me go check on her. So I. Those are things like I will never see. And it's not because I don't want to. It just goes over my head. So those, those kinds of things I've seen I can't improve on. That's why I tell people, people I care about is like, I have this, you know, you know, this thing that it doesn't work as well as others. So just tell me everything you know.

[Lewis Howes]

Sure. I'm curious about your, you know, your mindset. You know, again, with someone like yourself who's accomplished so much at the highest level in the world at what you do, can you break down a little bit on how you think before entering a big moment in your life, in your, in your sport or in the business you're building? Like, is there a process that you think about when you're going to enter the arena of whatever you're working on? Is there a mantra, a process? Do you visualize something? Do you, like, do you release something? Can you just walk through a little bit about that process?

[Kobe Bryant]

I think the process changes depending on the moment you are in life, right. I think you have these moments as an athlete or in business or in life where you're on top of the world. You can do nothing wrong. Every, everything's golden. Then you like, okay, it's great, you're in a row, you're in a. You're in a flow, right? And then you have other moments where it's not great. And so you have to be more cognizant of that process. Be super self aware and really extract out what's. What you're feeling and figure out what part's real and what isn't because we can get the feels right. And you have to distract, like what's, what is just a feeling and what is the. What is the issue? And I do that by journaling, really. I start writing what I'm feeling and then once I start writing down all the things I'm feeling, then I'm able to recognize this is actually the one thing that's real is the issue. The rest is just a bunch of other stuff that's just floating in my head and I can get rid of the fluff and then focus on the real thing that's bothering me. I think also a lot of being about being your best is just preparation. You cannot be great without the preparation. And you can't feel good about what you're doing unless you've done the work. So the greats are doing the work. They're putting in the work day in, day out. If you're in finance, you're up all night reading whatever that is that it takes to do that, being on top of your industry, thinking, literally just sitting and thinking and meditating about what you like to accomplish. And it's the same in sport, too. You sit and you meditate about what you'd like to accomplish. So being great is intentional. And then when you're in a bad place, also getting out of it is also intentional too. But it's just realizing where you are and applying what you need to succeed, no matter where you are. And I think when you're in a bad place, you just have to realize that a lot of it is also mental, too. You can just. What I try to tell myself is that this moment, I'm anticipating what might happen that could be bad, but anticipation is just that, it's not even real.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Kobe Bryant]

What if something great happened? What if something amazing could happen? What if I could make that happen? And it's like changing your thought around things is so powerful and it's not easy and you have to constantly work on it. But if you put in the work, your mind will change. It's like anything else. If you go to the gym and do those biceps for six weeks, you're going to see some improvement. So if you flex your mind in a different way, instead of saying, I can't for six weeks, if you say I can for six weeks, your mind goes on a completely different pathway. And it's so powerful and so true, and it's not easy. And you have to continually do it. Once you do it just once, it doesn't just stick. You just have to keep training your mind. And I think sometimes people forget that part, that training your mind is so important if you want to. Want to be strong mentally. Trained to be strong mentally.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, I love that. How do you train to stay strong mentally, personally?

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. Come first is preparation, right? Doing the preparation, that's. That's ground zero.

[Lewis Howes]

Doing the work part of the reps. Yeah, yeah.

[Kobe Bryant]

Putting in the work, whatever that may be, you have to. You have to put in the work. So if you don't do that, you're never going to be great, you're never going to be mentally strong or whatever it is you'd like to achieve. Once you've put in the work, then you realize what you're good at, what you're not. I mean, me personally, I think there's probably a lot of people who are smarter who are going to get that 1600 on the SAT. I'm probably not going to get the 1600, but my strength is that, you know, I'm extremely logical and, you know, I notice patterns. I'm very quick in those sorts of things. So then I have to set myself up in a way that plays in my strengths. Not everyone's going to have the same strength and everyone's going to be good at everything. But once you've done your work and you see your strengths, then you got to figure out a way to play to that. And then always, of course, work on your weaknesses over time, and those at some point can come up too, until you're like this complete player, you know, ready? Player one. So it's just, yeah, it's like, let's play this game to win. If we're going to play, let's win or else there's no need to play.

[Lewis Howes]

Absolutely. I think a lot of people want to win at whatever game they're playing in life or their career, their business or their sport. They want to be more successful. They want to win. And it seems like more than ever, society, at least in America, American society, it seems like everyone lower, lots of people want to become more famous, wealthy and successful. And the more people I interview and ask about this, who have fame, wealth and success, they talk about, you know, the pressures that come with that. Can you share a little bit about how you were? Did you feel like you were mentally and emotionally prepared when you became, you know, a world icon in your sport and you started to gain popularity, fame, success, money? Did you feel you were mentally and emotionally prepared? Or was that a challenge? Or was it. Was it a lot of pressure?

[Kobe Bryant]

At first, I think I was aware of the pressure. I started really young. My first pro match was 14. So a lot of it, though, the youth and inexperience is in some way a protection. You just don't really, really get it.

[Lewis Howes]

You don't know. Yeah.

[Kobe Bryant]

But also it can go the other way, too. And I think there were some matches where I. I felt pressure to perform up to maybe what I was supposed to be, like this hype. But at the end of the day, I failed sometimes. And then the failure was a lesson and I learned from it. And so that was like, you know, that even though I failed, it was still a step up. Yeah, it wasn't a step down because I learned something and I got more determined. So I think that a lot of what people want today is based on what they think other people have. And social media. I think that's a lot of pressure for young people, too, to be successful, like, immediately. No one's successful that young. I was successful young, but I started playing tennis at 4 and I put in a decade.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Kobe Bryant]

Before I even, like, went pro. So, yes, it was young, but there was, you know, millions of hours of work that happened before that happened. Nothing happens that fast. And really, the process is the most joy, I find. Right. When you. When you can't figure something out or you do figure it, once you figure it out and you've put in the work and you find the right process and you're able to repeat that process over and over and over again. The sense of pride and accomplishment that you get not from the success, but the work you put in to get there, that's where the happiness comes from.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Kobe Bryant]

And I think there might be a generation now that doesn't understand that. That there's so much pride in your work. Like, what you do. Work is a part of your happiness. You don't want to circumvent that. Of. That's a part of who you are. That accomplishment. Accomplishing things gives you confidence and happiness. Happiness. And so if you are empty or because you haven't, you've skipped that process, then it's something to look at.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. Did you ever feel like you got punished after a loss?

[Kobe Bryant]

No, nothing was worse than the punishment that I felt, like, internally, you know, that my expectation of myself. And I think that's a good thing and a bad thing. You gotta temper it. Right. Sometimes your expectations can be. You can be so hard on yourself that you never pat yourself on the back enough. But some people aren't hard enough on themselves, and so then they never make it. You got to find the middle. The middle ground of, like, being hard, but also, like, recognizing the things you accomplish, too.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And not holding onto it for, like, days or weeks of, you know, a loss.

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah. That's easier said than done. Like, we hold on to our losses whether we realize it or not. And you just have to think about it's a new day, like, absolutely. New possibility. And that's not easy.

[Lewis Howes]

Absolutely. The younger generation might have today. Or the confusion around how to build confidence. Can you share. And I think this speaks into building a confident identity. Can you share your passion for really starting to shift the conversation from appearance to capability and in your own personal journey, given the insights in this issue, it's so important.

[Kobe Bryant]

It doesn't matter what you look like. It matters what's inside side of you that you can get out to live the life that you want to live and figuring out what that life is and that having other people's approval or none of those things really matter for, you know, that doesn't help you get out of bed. You know, the research has shown that about 45% of girls globally quit sports by the age of 14. And that's due to low body confidence. And when I think about, what if that happened to me? I turned pro at 14. What if I had stopped sports at age 14 because I didn't feel good about myself? I mean, this is literally my life. I got to play sports and change my life. And through that. That was never my plan. I just wanted to win Wimbledon, change other people's lives just by doing something positive for yourself. You never know what impact you're going to have on not only yourself, but the world. I had no idea that was going to happen. I just wanted to lift the trophy. Not everyone goes pro. Not everyone becomes an athlete. But what you learn from sports is unparalleled. You cannot teach in a classroom or in a book what you Learn from sports.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Rebecca Quinn]

Gosh, I think that's, you know, I think that's the thing is that you, you don't, you don't get confidence by thinking about having confidence. You know, you get confidence by action. And I never had confidence before, before I started wrestling. And I think that's why I was always trying to fit in or with the, with the kids that were drinking and that would make me cool. And then I'd be smoking and it would take the edge off from the self consciousness and everything that was going on at home at the time. And then when I was 15 and I just failed PE, I was getting ready for my junior cert, which is, I'm not sure what the equivalent is over here, but to your. When you're 15, you're doing these exams in school that at the time they make it seem like if you fail these, your life is over.

[Lewis Howes]

Really.

[Rebecca Quinn]

But yeah, all the pressure that they put on you in school, this will.

[Lewis Howes]

Determine the rest of your life.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Exactly where you go to school and.

[Lewis Howes]

College and everything else.

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And that's how, and that's what I felt like. And at the time, even though I was a little degenerate and I wasn't doing good in school and I was drinking and I was smoking, I was doing everything that I shouldn't be doing. Like, I still had ambition, I still wanted to do something good in my life. I still wanted to be a lawyer or, or something productive in society. And, and, and I realized on one random Monday when I wanted a beer that at 15, at 15, that I needed to turn my life around. I needed to do something different that I couldn't, I, I couldn't keep going down this pathway of failing PE and just not applying myself to anything. And so I started looking up like different kickboxing things because gyms weren't a thing in Ireland back then. There was like two or something. You know, there was, there was, there was this big gym, but it was too preppy. It was too preppy. And I was an alternative kid. You know, the ones with the Black lipstick and the dog collars and all that kind of stuff. And so I. You know, going to a gym just seemed too mainstream for me. Too Jane Fonda. And so then one day I go in to the computer room, because in 2002, everybody had a computer room. And my brother's looking up this website, and it was called Hammerlock. And it was this wrestling school over in the uk. And I was like, what are you doing there? And he's like, well, I was thinking about training as a wrestler, and instantly I had this jealousy, this. This. This feeling of, I need to do that. And I was like, are you gonna go over there? And he was like, yeah, yeah. And I was like, there's no way. There's no way my mom is gonna let me go over to the UK to train 15. I'm also a degenerate. Like, she's aware. She's aware that I'm going off the rails. And then. And then the promoter there wrote back to him to let him know that there was two Irish lads that were going to be open in the school, like, an hour away from us on the train. And so that's how I found out about it. And he told me that. And I was like, oh, I want to go, too. He was like, no, you're not going. You have to be 16. And I was like, I'll lie. And he was like, no, I don't want to have to look after my little sister. I was like, you won't have to lying. And. And I went down there and. And I started. And that was it. All of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I wanted to apply myself to something. I wanted to get better at something. I saw progress in each training session, and that built confidence because not only was I applying myself and getting better at something and seeing results, but I also now had this community. And I think. And there was also this feeling of, like, I'm different, which, you know, always felt a little different. You know, I wasn't the cool kid, even though I tried to be. But now I had this confidence in my difference, you know, And I was the only girl there, too. I was the only girl in a group of lads, and I was hanging with them, or maybe not, but I was there. I felt like I was. And so that gave me confidence that I could do this and I could set myself apart, and there was something more to me. And then I just continued on there. I never thought or not that I never thought maybe I had, like, this suppressed dream, but I still thought I was going to be a lawyer and do something realistic, really, until I was like 17. And it was the first time I had played the heel role, the bad guy role, and I was teaming with my brother. And when you're heel, when you're the bad, you can do no wrong because you can just have fun, you can taunt the crowds, you can be an idiot.

[Lewis Howes]

And that's your job.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yes, there's such freedom in that. There's such freedom in that. And I came back and I was like, this is what I need to do. This is what I'm meant to do. This is what I'm going to do.

[Lewis Howes]

At 17.

[Rebecca Quinn]

At 17. And then by 18, dropped out of college, moved over to Canada, wrestled around Canada, around America, around Japan, around Europe. My visa ran out from Canada. I had to move back in with my mom. And my mom, God bless her, like, like she's only ever wanted the best for me. And the best in her eyes was not being a wrestler, especially back then, because what I wanted, what I visualized for myself was me being seen on par as the Rock, as Stone Cold Steve Boston, as Mick Foley, as all these lads that I looked up to. But if you watched TV and you watched how the women were booked, there was lots of brown panties matches, there was mud wrestling matches. That wasn't anything I wanted to do. That was certainly nothing my mother wanted me to do. And so there was an opportunity for.

[Lewis Howes]

Women to really be stars back then when you started.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Not in the way that I wanted to be. Not in the way that I wanted to be. And so I started looking at the women's promotions in Japan. And then I went over there and I wrestled in Japan and I got assigned to this advertising agency over there that wanted to promote me as this big time wrestler. But then when I came home and I had to live with my mom again, she's going, what's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? Because she always wanted a plan. But with wrestling and I suppose any artistic endeavor, I genuinely think wrestling is an artistic endeavor. You can't necessarily plan it.

[Lewis Howes]

Why not? Why can't you plan it?

[Rebecca Quinn]

You can have a rough plan, but so much is out of your control. You know, you can work towards what you want, but you, you can't decide when you're, when you're going to get on somebody's radar, what they're going to be looking for. You know, I think it's the same with, say, for example, an actor, an actor can do the best audition of their life, but they might have brown hair and the person is looking for blonde hair. And so they see this great audition, but that's not what they were looking for on that day. And so I started to believe that if I looked a certain way that that would give me that that was my plan, that that is how I would get there. Because all these women looked like figure competitors and they were beautiful models and you know, it was just a regular average looking girl with a bit of a pair of biceps on me and decent set of shoulders. But like at the time, you know, there was, there was enhancements that were standardly involved in the hiring process and I didn't have them, nor did I want to get them. And so I thought, well, if I have abs and if I'm ripped, then if I look in this way then they'll want me. And so kind of compare it to the Survivor song on the Eye of the Tiger and you change your passion for glory. Because then my focus shifted from just how I looked and how that would make, if I change how I am to make them want me as opposed to being true to myself.

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting. How long did you take?

[Rebecca Quinn]

And them.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, wanting you for who you are.

[Rebecca Quinn]

For who I am.

[Lewis Howes]

So how long did you transform into someone you think they would want? How long was that process for?

[Rebecca Quinn]

Well, it didn't last very long because I completely destroyed myself. So I started, I started bodybuilding then I was like, oh, let me sign up for this bodybuilding competition and if I can do well in this bodybuilding competition, then they'll see that. Just the logic that goes through my head, they'll see that and then they'll be like, oh yeah, let's sign her. Like she'll be on a magazine or something and we'll sign her that way.

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting. How old were you then?

[Rebecca Quinn]

19. Okay, I was 19 then. And I mean, maybe it would have worked if I committed to it. But anyway, the point was I didn't know what I was doing. I was with this lad who had never trained a girl before. He was a bodybuilder himself, but he was a giant man and giant, giant man and who had done many competitions and he was training me and my diet, then my diet was all over the place. And then he put me onto this other guy who gave me this other diet which then I just became a maceate and I was trying to wrestle around Japan and all this stuff. My body was just hurting but like I was loving how I looked in the mirror because I had these abs and I was like, disciplined and my focus was what I was going to eat and how I was going to train. And like, I had this then sense of ego, like, look at how disciplined I can be. I am so much better than everybody because I have this discipline. But ultimately I was like dying on the inside because I had no energy, My moods were all over the place. I was like leering at cookbooks of what I was going to eat when, when, when this diet finished and, and, and, and, and ultimately I ended up not being able to make it past 10 weeks of this diet. There was two more weeks till the competition. I just, the guy who was trying to me suggested a cheat meal and that was it. Then I just went completely off the rails and couldn't get back on.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And then that, that, that, that then became an unhealthy relationship with food for years, really. Years and years and years completely destroyed. How I looked at myself and everything like that and how I valued myself.

[Lewis Howes]

How did you value yourself then on.

[Rebecca Quinn]

On how I, on how I looked suddenly, like from somebody who had gone from valuing myself on my substance and what I brought to the table in terms of wrestling and my craft. I was then, just now I was just conforming to what I thought they wanted and what society wanted. But by then, then I was like, I don't even know if I want to wrestle anymore. Maybe that dream is over. It's time to be realistic and get a real job. Then I ended up being a flight attendant.

[Lewis Howes]

And so you were wrestling, you were pursuing professional wrestling? I guess, at the time, yeah. Then you quit to be a flight attendant?

[Rebecca Quinn]

Well, then I was like, well then I started thinking like, oh, well, maybe I'll be a fitness model because that'll be easy on my body. And, but I couldn't maintain it because I was so hungry. I just loved eating. Like, I loved eating so much. And, but, and so then that, it, that, then I became bulimic and all of these things and it was really just, just going from being somebody who cared about, about their mind, who thought their mind was powerful to just thinking that I was a set of abs and a pair of arms, you know, and that was where I put my focus. It took a long time to shake that.

[Lewis Howes]

How old were you when you shook it?

[Rebecca Quinn]

35.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

No, no, no, not quite. But like, I think it was a process. It was a process. It was, it was a process because I was a flight attendant, hated it, but was still trying. I then did the bodybuilding competition. I came third, by the way.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Out of four entries. Yeah, yeah. It sounded impressive. So I did. The bodybuilding competition was like standing up on stage. Oh my goodness. I'm so glad they just, everybody didn't have an iPhone back then, but I did that and I was just like, why am I standing in my underwear showing people my muscles like this doesn't feel like me, you know, because for some people, for some bodybuilders, it's such an artistic thing. They are sculpting their body. They are, they love it, they love the discipline of it. But for me it was, it was some sort of a means to an end, some sort of way for me to be validated by society or something. That, and it just didn't feel authentic and true to me. It just felt like I was, yeah, I was just trying to be something that I wasn't. It was just consumed by, by my body will be my vessel too.

[Dwyane Wade]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

But if it looks a certain way then, then I'll be successful and whatever. And then I, then I started to realize that like the part of wrestling that I loved, it wasn't just the train, it was the performance. I loved the performance. I love the crowd, I loved the creativity, I love the storytelling. And I think throughout my whole life I found that storytelling is what draws me more than anything. Like in school I was terrible at every subject except English and history because it was just stories. Like it was, it was hearing stories and learning about these stories and I rocked at those subjects, terrible at everything else. And, and so then I went back to school to study acting.

[Lewis Howes]

And is this in London now or where is this?

[Rebecca Quinn]

This is in Dublin.

[Lewis Howes]

I said I met in Dublin.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of all over the place. But like at 22, I went back to college, studied acting in Dublin and then did a year in Chicago and that felt like, okay, now I'm back, now I'm back a little bit. And then it, it seemed more like I was part of a creative endeavor.

[Lewis Howes]

Than really when you're doing the acting.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Rebecca Quinn]

The story part was what helped me. That's what saved my.

[Lewis Howes]

Kept you in it.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, yeah. Because Dusty Rhodes was the promo teacher at the time and Dusty, like loved his broken toys, the ones that were like rough around the edges. But he saw that had some soul or something, something about them, just a little something, just a spark. And he tried to bring that out. And so I didn't know. I didn't know who I wanted to be. Everybody was like, find a character, find a character, find a character. So I try out all these stupid characters.

[Lewis Howes]

None of them worked.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Of course none of them worked. They were all awful. But like there. But it was. It was the trying. It was the.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca Quinn]

It was the being able to put yourself out there and throw at the wall and see what sticks right Nothing stopped. But, but, but, but I tried and I kept, I kept trying. And I think he valued the creativity more than, more than the outcome, because if somebody came in, they were the total package. I can point to there's a wrestler called La Knight at the time who right now is making big waves in wrestling. But at the time he was down there. We started on the same day and he had everything. He had it just down. He had it down, you know, so Dusty, yeah, Dusty was like, yeah, you're great. But he had no more work to do because he already had his act down. Whereas somebody like me was completely lost, completely screwed. Had. And, and, and I think, I think, I think there was a combination of, of Dusty and William Regal that saved my job.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Many, many times. Because they saw that there was something, something there in this Irish girl that had not a clue.

[Lewis Howes]

So.

[Rebecca Quinn]

That had not a clue because I didn't like, look like any of these other girls that were like st. That wasn't great in the ring, but there was something when I talked that was unique. That was unique. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting. Is it like six days a week training?

[Rebecca Quinn]

It was. So it was like five days a week and then we would do three shows. So you do Monday, Tuesday, you would do a school session, which is. You'd watch matches, but then there'd be extra training.

[Lewis Howes]

Gosh, that would have been so fun.

[Rebecca Quinn]

The watching the matches.

[Lewis Howes]

Just, I mean, that whole experience, just like being a full time athlete, training, watching, testing, trying, just like in hindsight. Right.

[Rebecca Quinn]

But during it, but during, But I remember that that was one of the things that Triple H would always say, you know, because he was head of developmental and he was always, enjoy this, enjoy this. There's never going to be. And there was times when I would feel like I was in a Rocky movie and, you know, like, I get that, like, and you could enjoy it, but the other part of it was not sleeping because you were always scared that you were going to be on the chopping block.

[Lewis Howes]

You could be cut, like every week.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, there was. They. We called it Black Friday and you'd come in, you'd get pulled into the office and that was it, and your dream would be over. And, you know, I had several friends that, that got caught and, and it was devastating. And my friend Joe, the reason that I got signed in the first place, who I lived with, he got cut. And so that was a whole new world to navigate. But, but so once, once the fear of not being cut subsided, then you could enjoy it more. But when you were Scared that you were going to get fired every other day. Not enjoyable. Not enjoyable at all.

[Lewis Howes]

So when did you feel like, I'm making it? Like, when did you feel like, okay, I'm actually making it? I don't know in my sport, in society, culturally, financially. When was the moment from ten years ago to, like, I'm arriving?

[Rebecca Quinn]

So I think it was shortly after that. Shortly after the breakdown. Shortly after the breakdown of, okay, wait, I'm not a bad person. And then I remember coming into promo class, not doing a character, but just cutting an angry promo of. I am sick of the. I put in all of this work. I have done this, I have done that. I have done this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and, and, and this is why I deserve a shot. This is why I need to be on tv. And I remember cutting that promo and then, like, people, like, seeing a bit more of an edge. And it wasn't just a hi, yeah, please don't fire me. Hi, hi, hi, hi. I'm so happy to be here. Like, there was. There was this. There was now this weird confidence and this. I wasn't so meek anymore. Like, I had a chip on my shoulder and I was ready to fight. And then things started to happen there. And, like, then I got on tv. One of the worst debuts of all time off, really. Oh, my God, Terrible. I came out there doing the stupid Irish jig and I can't. I can't the Irish jig.

[Lewis Howes]

But, like, try to dance.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tried, tried.

[Lewis Howes]

Tried to do the Irish dance.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Tried to do the Irish dance. Like, as. As hammed up as possible. Like, shameless. Just shameless. But, like, at the time, there was this girl, Emmett, she was doing this wacky dance, and it was like, okay, well, like, wackiness is getting people on tv. There was. There were just wacky characters left, right, and center. Because that was the thing about the developmental system down there. You got the chance to be wacky and you got the chance to try things and fail. And so I failed epically, publicly.

[Lewis Howes]

On tv.

[Rebecca Quinn]

On TV that lives on forever, that will never be erased from history. But, hey, if you can come back from that, you can come back from anything.

[Lewis Howes]

Let's go.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And. And so the greatest part of it was, like, I didn't even realize how awful it was until, like, a few nights later. And, like, I remember seeing Triple H and being like, what did you think? As if he was like, oh, yeah, that was amazing.

[Lewis Howes]

You dominated.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the audience loved me. They were still. They Were real positive to me, I think. Come on. Like, I was a little idiot. Like, I suppose you couldn't really boo me. Like, God bless her, you know, what did she think? What was she thinking? Look at this fool. But. But. Yeah, and then. And then. And then I tried various different things, But I remember. I remember after that, and then just having this different perspective and this gratitude that I was able to pay my bills, and the food in my fridge was bought by the money that I'd made from wrestling, and the roof over my head was paid for by the money that I'd made from wrestling. And I was driving a car with the money that I made from wrestling. And, like, I just. Driving with just tears of gratitude that I could afford these things with the money that I'd made from wrestling. Because it. I've never felt like money that I've made from wrestling is real money, you know, it just doesn't feel like real money because I'm not working, you know?

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, we're fun.

[Rebecca Quinn]

I'm having fun. I love. I love what I do. I love what I do. I love it. I love it. And sometimes. And sometimes it's hard, and sometimes there's so many opinions and there's. You know, like, our wrestling fans, they're so vocal, and they're so great. But, you know, you take the good with the bad, so sometimes you're getting lots of negative opinions on what you're doing or you're getting. And so. Or you think creative should be this way or you should be booked that way, and so you can get bogged down in those things. When it comes to the creative process, and I'm putting together a match or I am thinking about a promo, I don't think there's anything bar like playing with my child that makes me feel more alive. Like, I just. I love it so much, and I love just, like, something coming to me and building from that, you know, just these little seeds of ideas. Like, what if we try this? You know, what if we try this? Maybe this will work and maybe it'll be awful. But that's the greatest thing about wrestling, is that you. Because we do it 52 weeks a year because we're on the road constantly. You get to try and fail so often, but you get to try and succeed so often, too, and you never know which way it's gonna go. But if you keep trying, you know, sometimes you hit gold, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you think something's gold and other people don't. But that's art, right? Like, you do the art for what you want to do, and then whatever the audience takes out of it is up to them.

[Lewis Howes]

Big WWE fan Rick Rubin we had on the show.

[Rebecca Quinn]

I love Rick.

[Lewis Howes]

And he talks about what you just making art for you and writing in your journal, in your diary, the things that are meaningful for you. Your art, not worrying what people are going to think about it, but having the courage to put it out there and allowing others to see it as well. That's like part of the process.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And he's a big fan, isn't he?

[Rebecca Quinn]

Oh, he's huge wrestling fan. Yeah. Yeah. And his book is.

[Lewis Howes]

It's amazing.

[Dwyane Wade]

Have you read it?

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah. It's so good. Read it. Listen to us.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, he's great.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah. And I love. Because I just, like, sometimes I just. I'm like, okay, what do we do?

[Lewis Howes]

Open up a page.

[Rebecca Quinn]

What do I need right now, universe?

[Lewis Howes]

Tell me. Yeah, open up.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And then, of course, it's exactly what you need in that moment. I love it. But it is that. But the other thing about wrestling, which is so different from any other artistic endeavor, like writing a book, you have a. You can take your time, you know, if you're writing a script or whatever, maybe like a movie or a song, if you have an album. But like, say if you're writing a song, you can just take your time to do that. Wrestling. We don't. We. We ain't got time.

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Like, this show is gonna go live on TV.

[Lewis Howes]

We gotta make it happen.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And if at 7pm you don't have something, you better find something, because we're. We're gonna go live.

[Lewis Howes]

Have you ever not felt like you were prepared before going live and having to come up with something on the spot?

[Rebecca Quinn]

A million times. Really? Yeah. Because now it's different. But it used to be back in the day, the show would be getting rewritten while the show was going on live in front of people. So you would have, like, an idea of what you're going to say. And then somebody comes up. No, no, no, no, no. You have to say this. Find a way to put this in. And so you're okay going out the curtain and changing things really, as you're going out? Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

You have to evolve what you're going to say.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, sometimes. And that's happened, like, several times. But it's really exciting.

[Lewis Howes]

It's scary, but exciting.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah, because it's chaos and it's chaos, and so whatever comes out is great because you can't. It's just organic. It's in the moment.

[Lewis Howes]

It's the ultimate. Yes. And experience.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yes. I love it. It's so exciting because you don't know what's going to happen, but something's going to happen. There's been so many times when I've had, like, we're putting together a match, but we haven't had the time. And so, like, you're going out and you think that you have something, but you're not sure. And you're not sure if everybody else is on the same page. But you go out there and something happens. Like something's gonna happen. Because something has to happen.

[Lewis Howes]

And based on what happens, they might rewrite the next thing and the next thing. And it just keeps evolving, huh?

[Rebecca Quinn]

Yeah. Because you never go out there and nothing happens.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Because that can't happen. Because that would be weird. You're like, people aren't just going to stand in the rain, wait to be told what to do.

[Lewis Howes]

Someone's gonna say something and hit someone and go on to the next person.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And we're just gonna go. Because that's what has to happen. So it's such a.

[Lewis Howes]

They'll throw you out there. You just figure it out. Yeah.

[Rebecca Quinn]

It's such an exciting addiction. Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

That's exciting. I told you, I've never been to a show, so I gotta come and watch you.

[Rebecca Quinn]

You gotta come. It's the best.

[Lewis Howes]

I'm curious, when is there a moment? You've had so many different matches over the last, you know, 10, 15 years. When was the match or the moment that you were in the most flow, that you felt, like, 100% authentic to you, that the words were flowing, the movement was flowing, like it was all connecting and the audience was connected to you.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Gosh, I suppose there's several. Like, recently, recently, I had a match with Trish Stratus. It was a cage match, and it just felt like, yeah, I'm so present. Everything that needs to happen is happening. And that was back in September. So that's like. There's, like, these big matches that stand out because it'll often happen on live events and different things, but there's these big moments, these big events built around it. And then a match that I had with Bianca Belair. WrestleMania 38, one of my favorite matches, one of my favorite stories leading up to it. And I was the bad guy. And I loved it. I loved it. I was having so much fun. And she was. She's this great athlete and this great baby face, and she can do everything. And I was getting to. Because I'd Robbed the title from her, essentially. Like I'd underhandedly beat her, and I was going to be able to. To give her back her championship. She beat me for it. I wasn't handing it out. She beat me for it. But it was that, you know, her redemption story, and that was. That was so fun to be a part of. And then there was another match that I had in 2018 with Charlotte Flair was the last woman standing. And that one stands out because I remember it being the first match where I felt confident in it, in the moment. I can do no wrong. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

What year is this?

[Rebecca Quinn]

That's 2018.

[Lewis Howes]

2018.

[Rebecca Quinn]

Okay.

[Lewis Howes]

I want people to get your book. It's beautiful. Stories, lessons about someone from, you know, really a small town, small country, who was able to become one of the biggest stars in the world, and all the different life lessons and stories along the way, which are really inspiring. So I want people to get a copy of your book, the Man. Not your average, average girl. Make sure you guys check this out. By Rebecca Quinn. Really inspiring stuff, and just some really cool stories in here that I think people will like, whether you're into WWE or not. You know, again, I've never been to a match, but I thought all this stuff was fascinating. So I'm coming one of these days. I'm gonna be there. I have three final questions for you, Rebecca. The first one is called the Three Truths. It's a hypothetical question. So I'd like you to imagine, if you can, a moment that you get to live as long as you want in this world, but it's your last day, many years away. You get to pick as old as you want to be, but eventually, you got to turn the lights off for yourself. And in this hypothetical world, you have to take everything with you. So no one has access to this book, our conversation, any piece of content that's ever been out, anything you create from this moment moving forward, it has to go with you when you leave. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things you know to be true, and that's all you would ever be able to leave behind to everyone else. What would be those three truths for.

[Rebecca Quinn]

You to believe in yourself? My dad said something, and it's. It's from the Bible, but he misquoted it. But I. And it's a quote that I use in this book, too. And he misquoted it, but I like his version better. And it's. If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will complete you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will destroy you.

[Dwyane Wade]

Wow.

[Rebecca Quinn]

And I love that. I love that, that it's essentially being authentic to whatever it is inside. And the other one, the third one, I will use the most polite language that I can. Just don't be a. Just be nice to people. Be good to one another. You know, I think that's what we need in this world more than anything. And if you want an outlet for people not being good to each other, watch wrestling. Watch wrestling. Where they're not being nice to each other. But it's agreed upon.

[Lewis Howes]

It's contained.

[Rebecca Quinn]

It's contained, it's contained and it's controlled. Because I think more than ever, especially in a world where negativity is a hot commodity, where the algorithm loves it, it is more important. Where we thought that we left the bullies in the schoolyard, but we don't. They're online every day. They're constantly telling you, they're constantly chirping in their opinions. I think we need more than ever just to be good to one another.

[Lewis Howes]

That's beautiful. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Cut the commute and up the convenience for your next dermatologist.

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[Kobe Bryant]

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