5 Direct Mail Tactics Every Investor Should Know | Justin Silverio

Summary

Podcast Summary: "5 Direct Mail Tactics Every Investor Should Know | Justin Silverio"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Science of Flipping
• Host/Author: Justin Colby, Bleav
• Episode: 5 Direct Mail Tactics Every Investor Should Know | Justin Silverio
• Release Date: October 18, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 5 of The Science of Flipping, host Justin Colby welcomes longtime friend and seasoned real estate investor, Justin Silverio. With 13 years of experience in the industry, Justin Silverio is the founder of Open Letter Marketing and Envelope. The episode delves deep into the critical role of direct mail in real estate investing, debunking myths, and sharing actionable strategies to enhance deal flow and conversion rates.

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1. The Critical Importance of Direct Mail in Real Estate Investing

Justin Silverio emphasizes that direct-to-seller marketing is a cornerstone of any successful real estate investor’s business. According to Silverio, finding off-market deals is increasingly challenging through online platforms like MLS, making direct mail indispensable for a steady influx of opportunities.

Justin Silverio [01:01]: "Direct to seller marketing, it is a critically important piece of any real estate investor's business, right, to get deals really. You can't find them online, you know, on the MLS anymore."

He highlights that without a consistent pipeline of deals, a real estate business cannot thrive. Silverio shares his journey of perfecting the direct mail aspect of off-market marketing, which allowed him to outpace competitors in generating high-quality leads.

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2. Overcoming the Myth: "Direct Mail is Dead"

The podcast addresses the common misconception that direct mail is obsolete. Silverio counters this by pointing out that many investors giving up on direct mail did so prematurely due to a lack of consistency and understanding.

Justin Silverio [04:50]: "I think a lot of people that say that even either haven't tried it or have tried it, but unsuccessfully because they're just not consistent with it."

Silverio asserts that top investors nationally still rely heavily on direct mail, attributing their success to sustained and strategic efforts rather than sporadic attempts.

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3. Mastering List Stacking Techniques

One of the pivotal strategies discussed is list stacking—combining multiple data sources to identify high-potential leads. Silverio explains how integrating various lists (e.g., absentee owners, tax liens, pre-foreclosures) can significantly enhance lead quality.

Justin Silverio [10:44]: "Most of the lists you can actually pull right inside of Envelope... list stack."

He advises targeting a refined list of approximately 2,500 highly qualified leads for a six-month campaign to start seeing tangible results, typically around the third to fourth month.

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4. Leveraging Envelope and Open Letter Marketing Platforms

Silverio introduces his two key platforms:

• Open Letter Marketing: Ideal for investors who want robust direct mail services without needing a comprehensive CRM system. It offers various mailing options, including customized postcards and handwritten letters.

Justin Silverio [17:50]: "Envelope is my other company and basically a CRM list building platform that you can do list stacking and all of that."

• Envelope: A more extensive CRM and acquisition system, suitable for those seeking an all-in-one solution encompassing list building, CRM functionalities, direct mail, and analytics.

Justin Silverio [18:10]: "Envelope is someone that wants everything, CRM, direct mail, like list building, all of that stuff."

He also mentions Open Letter Connect, an integration tool that automates direct mail triggers based on specific events, enhancing efficiency and responsiveness.

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5. Implementing Multi-Touch Campaigns

Silverio underscores the effectiveness of multi-touch campaigns—sending a series of varied mail pieces over time to build familiarity and trust with potential sellers. This approach contrasts with the outdated "spray and pray" method of mass mailing without targeting.

Justin Silverio [27:21]: "If you want a true direct mail strategy, it's not just the one off as we were talking about. I always look at direct mail as campaigns."

He describes a typical multi-touch campaign involving different types of mailers (e.g., postcards, handwritten letters, trifold flyers) to engage recipients progressively, ultimately increasing the likelihood of responses.

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6. Budgeting and Setting Realistic Expectations

Addressing concerns about the cost of direct mail, Silverio provides a guideline for budgeting, suggesting that sending mail to 2,500 records per month over six months may cost between $5,500 and $8,000, depending on the quality of materials used.

Justin Silverio [31:36]: "Sending mail to about 2,500 records per month for six months... somewhere from maybe 5,500 to 8,000."

He also advises setting realistic expectations, noting that initial deals typically emerge around the third to fourth month of a sustained campaign.

Justin Silverio [14:29]: "The proper expectation would say 90 days or a little bit longer. That is when that first deal should start to be coming about now."

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7. Tools and Integrations for Enhanced Efficiency

Silverio discusses the integration capabilities of his platforms, particularly how Open Letter Connect can automate direct mail processes by linking with other software systems. This ensures timely and relevant communication with leads based on their current circumstances.

Justin Silverio [19:45]: "Envelope has everything that Open Letter Marketing has in it and it provides so much flexibility and customization in there."

He highlights the advantage of automating mail sends in response to triggers (e.g., a new pre-foreclosure listing), allowing investors to maintain engagement without manual intervention.

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8. Recommendations for Different Investor Needs

Depending on an investor’s requirements, Silverio recommends:

• Open Letter Marketing: For those seeking dedicated direct mail services with expert support.
• Envelope: For investors needing a comprehensive CRM and marketing platform.
• Open Letter Connect: For seamless integration with existing systems, enabling automated direct mail sends based on specific triggers.

Justin Silverio [23:22]: "If somebody's new or just wants that handholding and just want direct mail and they're doing more bulk marketing. Then go with open letter marketing..."

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9. Final Thoughts and Call to Action

In closing, Silverio reinforces the indispensability of direct mail in real estate investing, urging listeners to adopt a strategic, consistent approach. He encourages investors to leverage his platforms to enhance their marketing efforts and achieve better deal flow.

Justin Silverio [36:17]: "Direct to seller marketing. It is a critically important piece of any real estate investor's business. Right. To get deals. Really, you can't find them online, you know, on the MLS anymore."

The host echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the need for a multifaceted marketing strategy that includes direct mail as a core component.

Justin Colby [37:05]: "Direct mail is something that you need to have as part of your pipeline... make sure you're going to open letter marketing.com, talk to some of their coaches, get educated, understand the systems."

Key Takeaways:

• Consistency is Crucial: Sustained direct mail efforts yield the best results.
• Quality Over Quantity: Focus on high-quality leads through list stacking rather than mass mailing.
• Utilize the Right Tools: Platforms like Open Letter Marketing and Envelope streamline and enhance direct mail campaigns.
• Set Realistic Expectations: Understand the timeline and investment required to see meaningful results.

Action Items for Listeners:

1. Explore Envelope: Visit envelope.app.com to take advantage of the free plan and begin list stacking.
2. Engage with Open Letter Marketing: Reach out via openlettermarketing.com to collaborate with marketing coaches and customize your direct mail strategy.
3. Implement Multi-Touch Campaigns: Develop a series of varied mailers to maintain engagement with potential sellers over an extended period.
4. Set a Dedicated Budget: Allocate funds wisely, focusing more on high-quality leads to maximize ROI.

By integrating these tactics, real estate investors can significantly enhance their deal acquisition process, fostering a sustainable and profitable business.

Transcript

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[Justin Silverio]

You know, direct to seller marketing, it is a critically important piece of any real estate investors business, right, to get deals, really. You can't find them online, you know, on the MLS anymore. So your ability to get deals in the door, that is what makes a business. If you don't have deals coming in, you don't have a business. And we really perfected the direct mail aspect of off market marketing.

[Podcast Host]

What is up the science of flipping family welcome back to another incredible episode. I have a personal friend of mine for over a decade who is a guest on this show today. You're going to want to pay attention because this man has been an investor for 13 years. He is the founder of Open Letter Marketing and Envelope and he has found a way. The key is he has found a way to get more sellers on the phone with them at a higher conversion rate to get on the phone and has put together the processes and systems so he can talk to more homeowners to get more deals. And he now has been able to systemize it so you too can use exactly how he's done that for his own business. Justin Silverio is here. What is up my friend?

[Justin Silverio]

What is up? Justin, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

That's it. Justin and Justin show. Let's go. This could be a whole new pot. We get the name, it's a whole new podcast.

[Justin Silverio]

Let's do it, man. Let's do it.

[Podcast Host]

So talk to me about this. Like as real estate investors, you know, you and I both know there's been this wave of direct mail. And, you know, when I started, you know, direct mail was almost 1 1/2% callback rate, almost 2, blah, blah, blah. And you basically realized that people started to feel the pain because in your own business, you were feeling the pain. So you, you put a focus on this, which is, how do I create more connectivity? Right?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. I mean, when you're going direct to seller, you want to make sure that your money goes as far as possible and you get a really good return. So when I started investing in direct to seller marketing, I focused on direct mail. I loved direct mail. It was very easy. It's a physical piece. People can hold on to it unlike other forms. So I wanted to make sure that I did something different and I stood out from my competition. And I did a huge look, like, big picture of like, what could I do? What are vendors doing? What are other people marketing? And how can I stand out and be different? So over years, it took me a long time to systemize and understand what's working, what doesn't work, how do I need to change it up to get really, really great results. And I started to see that my competition was kind of. I was just leaving them in the dust and they're like, dude, how are you doing this?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

So, yeah, systemizing was like a huge key for me to drive.

[Podcast Host]

When you weren't, you know, you still aren't in like an easy market. Right. You're in the Northeast. Right. And I'll tell you, there's not easy markets. I mean, that's kind of a falsity. But. But there are more difficult ones for sure. And your market is not easy. So for you to figure this out in your own market, I mean, there's, there's something to it.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, absolutely. That, that was the biggest key is like, I just wanted to focus on one thing, get really, really good at it. And direct mail was my kind of beast that I was kind of tackling. And you know, it even starts with data. Even before I go to direct mail, it's understanding the data and making sure that that is really good in order to get the good, good response rates and deals.

[Podcast Host]

Now he is the founder for all of you listening and watching. He's the founder of open letter marketing. You can look that up. Open letter Marketing, it'll be in the show notes. You could just go to the website. Open letter Marketing, you will see what he has built, which is impressive. So let's go back to direct mail. A lot of people. And you're in a lot of the same masterminds I'm in will say direct mail is dead. What do you say to that? Exactly? Laugh. Because I know it's not dead. It has changed, but it is not dead.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, I think a lot of people that say that even either haven't tried it or have tried it, but unsuccessfully because they're just not consistent with it. You know, all of the larger mo. The largest investors around the country are using direct mail and they get the large majority of their deals from direct mail. But it just takes consistency. That is the biggest number one rule of any marketing with direct mail included. Yes, it's more expensive. So people get a little bit nervous when they start direct mail and they're like, oh my God, it's expensive to do it. And then if they send, you know, two different touches and don't get a lot of responses, they'll just like stop. And that's the worst possible thing that they can do. And that's why a lot of people just don't have a really good understanding if it can work or not. Because they didn't give it a full chance.

[Podcast Host]

That's right.

[Justin Silverio]

Um, so yeah, that's, that's the basis.

[Podcast Host]

Well, and, and I would also make the argument you and I are big on KPIs and data because data can change how you move and how you market and what you should be doing. I'm gonna make the argument people just went into direct mail. Cause people said coaches or YouTube videos said do direct mail. They didn't know what to measure. They didn't know what the hell they were doing. They didn't know what to expect. I think the expectation part is just as important as anything else.

[Justin Silverio]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

If you're expecting a 4% callback ratio, just because you make that up in your head or someone randomly told you that out of whatever, and then you don't get that, then you're going to say direct mail doesn't work. If you're like me in the real estate game, you know how wild things can get. Managing leads, marketing, sales operation. It's a constant hustle. But let me tell you about something that has been a game changer for thousands of investors out there. Re simply, it's an all in one software that truly is a lifesaver for anyone serious about the real estate investing game. What's crazy about Resimpli is how much it packs into one platform. You've got absolutely everything you'll need from list stacking, driving for dollars Automated drip campaigns, a cold calling dialer, a full phone system, email management, speed to lead buyer management, automated task systems, accounting features, literally the whole nine yards. It's like they built the powerhouse software just for us investors. No more juggling different subscriptions and trying to integrate a million different tools. So if you're anything like me, and if you are ready to streamline your investing business and close more deals, you've got to check out resimpli. Head over to resimply.com forward/pod that is R E S I M P L I.com forward slash pod and get 50 off your first month. Oh, and they're also throwing in a free 30 day trial. So jump on. Why? You can trust me, you don't want to miss this.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, yeah. And keep in mind, like we're in an interesting industry, right? Real estate investors, they're not born real estate investors. They generally didn't go to school for it. They didn't go to school for business or like starting a company. They kind of fell into it. Right. So they don't have this marketing mindset. And that's, that's the biggest thing that I realize when we work with, you know, so many people around the country is we want to make sure that they have the marketing mindset first, provide really good expectations. We are not like order takers at open letter marketing. We want to make sure that people really understand what they're getting themselves into, how to set their expectations, what to know as far as marketing campaign, even before we start helping them with their, their marketing strategy. So that's kind of where we always come from, is education and value first. Get them to understand and then let's dive in and create a plan specifically for you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And so let's talk about like who would we want to target? Because the way I use direct mail is totally different. And I've been with you for quite some time. We've worked together for seven, eight, nine years. Right. With open letter marketing. Yeah. And so I vouch for this open letter marketing. That is why he is here. He is my guy. Justin and Justin. Anyways, I'll tell you guys, well, let me ask you this. I use it in a very nurture sequence way these days. Right. And so I do a lot of reverse flipping and a lot of people have heard this where I'm finding individuals who are up against the wall financially. Like they have a foreclosure auction date, they have a tax lien, foreclosure auction date, they have a reverse mortgage that you know Essentially is over leveraged the home. So I'm really targeting.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

The financial pain and then my nurture sequences is really how I'm personally using direct mail.

[Justin Silverio]

Yep.

[Podcast Host]

What are you seeing people using it for? What would you even advise? You know, is. Is some of the best strategies because they're not just one strategy.

[Justin Silverio]

Absolutely. No, there's all different types of strategy and the strategy is not only what you're focused on and what, what your budget is. Right. So. So there are a couple different strategies as you mentioned. One is somebody that really wants to dive in and go all direct mail and but has a limited budget. So there I say spend a little bit more time and energy on understanding your data first. As I mentioned before, data is critical. If you don't get that right, I don't care what kind of marketing you do, you're going to be wasting time or money. So make sure you get your data right. And when people mostly know like list like polling lists. Right. Absentee lists, driving for dollars, equity, tax liens, all that stuff. My goal for or what I tell people is generally pull the highest quality list that you can pull like driving for dollars, tax liens, code violations, water, shut off all of that stuff and then, and then mail to it. And you want to mail to it consistently. Consider consistently.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

And good numbers that I can provide to people that I've seen that actually really work. And if you're going to get started in direct mail, I'll give you some actual numbers that people can take away and have a really good understanding what it means to them and how to get down to how much mail they have to send and when they're actually going to start getting deals. So if somebody's new to direct to seller marketing, I say start off in an area geography of about 150 to 200,000 in population. From there start pulling lists again, absentee, equity related party. Like all of the top lists that most people have heard about. And if, I mean I'm happy to share a list if you want to put it in the show notes too. Sure. All the different lists from there. Once they pull all those lists, they should get about 10,000 to 14,000 leads or records from there. They want to like list stack. Okay. Or focus on those like really highly quality lists. So if you list stack and you're like oh okay, this person is on the tax lien list and absentee list and a pre foreclosure list. Right. That's a way better lead than somebody that just owns equity in their house. So from there you should get about 2500 people that are over multiple lists. That is the list you want to start marketing to with direct mail. And if you market to those 2500 over a six month campaign, you will start getting deals right around the third to fourth month. That's what we've consistently see. Now you can get, you can absolutely get deals before that. But on average around the third to fourth touch, you'll start to get deals.

[Podcast Host]

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[Justin Silverio]

Correct?

[Podcast Host]

Now the proper expectation would say 90 days or a little bit longer. That is when that first deal should start to be coming about now.

[Justin Silverio]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

I will tell you as a coach, that still means you need to understand how to properly analyze the deal. It still means you need to be able to actually make the offer. Right. It still means you need to get on the phone with these sellers. So there's still a lot of caveats that people will blame me or you, but it's not us, it's them. So you still got to do the thing to get the deal.

[Justin Silverio]

And that's what I was going to say. The other piece, if you're new to investing, just like you and myself too, when we got started, I'm sure just. Just like myself, you missed on deals and opportunities because you didn't even see it right when you got started. So you will absolutely. No matter how you get started in real estate, you are going to need to build that kind of knowledge base and you're going to be missing opportunities as they come along. I missed dozens and dozens. One, I didn't know what questions to ask. I was nervous on the phone. I didn't know how to analyze the deal. I didn't know how to do comps. I didn't know how to do rehab estimates. There were so many different things, and I only had like one tool in my toolbox to make a deal. And then, you know, my competitors, they're much more versed in what they were doing so they could pick up the deal before I could. So that is 100%. An important piece that people need to understand is like, I can probably. You and I can probably pick up deals, like, really easy and quickly. Somebody new, though, it's going to take them a lot longer, but they're learning through that education when they start.

[Podcast Host]

So let me know, how did you get educated? Where did you hear about investing and started learning from the.

[Justin Silverio]

Some of the stuff I think I started like. I think I started seeing it on, like, tv, like hgtv.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Justin Silverio]

And I got interested and my father was a contractor, so. And I knew numbers really well, so I was like, oh, let's team up. And then I spent hours on bigger pockets reading blogs and dude, you were one of the first podcasts I've ever listened to, which is so cool for me to be here today. I mean, that was like 11 years ago.

[Podcast Host]

I listened to that Gives me shivers, dude. What a full circle moment for me. And I really appreciate you sharing that because. Yeah, you're now on the podcast that you started listening to 11 years ago.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Podcast Host]

I just find that to be so cool, bro.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, I was thinking about it today. I was like, man, I remember listening to his podcast a long time ago.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

I was driving back and forth to work, being like, man, I got to quit my day job.

[Podcast Host]

So now you build, dude, you built an empire. I love it. I love it. Well, so let's kind of get back to maybe some strategy here. You talked about list stacking. Where can they go to, like, some people understand what that is, but they don't know how to do it or what to do. Where can they go to start to figure out how to list stack or what services can they use for list stacking?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, good question. And that's actually, you know, another company that I started called Envelope, which is a CRM platform because a lot of people, again, have that need. I always look at any time I start something. I always look internally and say, hey, what can I create for myself to make it easier on myself? And then naturally, as I'm starting to work with more and more investors through a marketing company and offering it to them, they're like, this is exactly what I need, what I've been missing. So Envelope is my other company and basically a CRM list building platform that you can do list stacking and all of that. It's a true acquisition system. Okay. That is something that people can do list stacking on there. And we actually have a free plan so they can sign up for free.

[Podcast Host]

On that and they just go to. In velo.com envelope app.com velo app.com.

[Justin Silverio]

Yep.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. And so what is the functionality of Envelope like? Give me, give me a rundown of who should use it, who's going to best utilize it, whether it's experience or newbies. What are the things that it actually does?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. So I'll give you, I'll give you the core elements of Envelope. Again, Envelope, we design it to be an acquisitions platform. So from the beginning of list building, right? So you can go in, you can find properties in a designated area. You can add in some filters, absentee related, you know, vacancies, pre foreclosures. You can find all types of properties and you can bring those into your prospects database. Your prospects database. The whole reason for that database is to market to them. Okay. To sort, to analyze, and then to market to them. Outreach. Okay. And then as soon as somebody calls back or reaches out to you, say, hey, I'm interested. Now we have a leads pipeline. So the leads pipeline is where your acquisition team is going to be spending their time making sure they're following up on leads and then converting them to deals, which then would move over to the deals pipeline. And then you can manage your deals while you go through either rehab or you're renting it. So it manages the deal side and we have marketing within the app and skip tracing and all of that. So it's truly like a beginning to end and lots of KPIs. So we're actually launching Envelo 2.0 in January, which is super exciting for us because it's really going to blow up the System and the KPIs and the analytics that we're going to be able to provide users is just like no other system's going to be able to hit on that. So that's another important piece that is unique to us.

[Podcast Host]

That's incredible. And so is there a way to kind of use both like the direct mail component with Envelope?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. So the cool thing is Envelo has everything that Open Letter marketing has in it and it provides so much flexibility and customization in there.

[Podcast Host]

So, so ultimately they could go to Envelope and kind of have a one stop shop where they can send the direct mail, they can track the leads, they can list, stack, they can absolutely do everything with inside envelope.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. So so many people have different ways of doing things. Right. We, we deal with many people that have their own CRM and they don't want to go to envelope, which is, which is perfectly fine.

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Justin Silverio]

Open letter marketing is perfect for anybody that just wants to do direct mail with us. Okay. Envelo is someone that wants to a CRM, everything, CRM, direct mail marketing, all that stuff in the platform. So those are the two kind of systems. And then to your point, you asked like other strategies. One other cool thing that we designed. Again, where I don't want to, I'm not trying to confuse people, I just want to show them the options. We developed Open Letter Connect, so we just actually launched that a couple of weeks ago. Sorry, a couple. A few months ago. And what that does is basically it connects directly into any software, website, any platform. So for you doing reverse, reverse flipping, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

So if you're like, hey, any time there's a new pre foreclosure in my area, I want to hit them, I want to send a direct mail piece just immediately, just quickly. So what we actually just did for one of our customers, they're using another CRM platform. They're like, hey, anytime a new pre foreclosure hits, I want you to trigger an automation through like Zapier and send it to your Open Letter Connect. Open Letter Marketing Connect. Sorry, Open Letter Connect and automatically send a mail piece out. A one off mail piece. So that's great.

[Podcast Host]

And so get notified. So because I do reverse flipping. Right. So there's usually a lot of financial pain. So if something is a short sale, whether it hits the MLS or not, I don't know. I mean, I guess that's the back end, the secret sauce. But it notifies me, hey, new short sale in the area you want it to be. And then I can say yes, send the letter and it'll send a one piece.

[Justin Silverio]

You don't even have to send anything. It just does it automatically.

[Podcast Host]

You set it up automatically?

[Justin Silverio]

Yep. So you can even set it up if you have different areas and you have like different mail pieces based on like you have some in Florida or some in like Arizona. Yeah, we can send different mail pieces based on where their location is. So they're getting the property mail piece and that's completely automated. You don't even need to touch it. So we're getting into those integrations too because a lot of people have their own platform, but they have a huge need for automating direct mail. So we just create it for everyone.

[Podcast Host]

That's amazing.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. Super, super cool course.

[Podcast Host]

Especially for someone like me that is very niche down to like, I'm looking for financial pain, tax liens, short sales, pre foreclosures, notice the defaults, that kind of stuff, violations, all that. Like that actually could be a game changer for sure. Yeah. So again, kind of going back to this structure of like utility, what would be the best utility for someone listening to this right now to say, should they maybe go to open letter marketing? Should they maybe just go to envelope? Since essentially open letter marketing kind of is built in, it is free right now. My assumption, when you launch 2.0 probably won't be free. So for all of you.

[Justin Silverio]

That's right.

[Podcast Host]

I want to get. That is right now.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Envelope app.com. right. Is free. So I would highly suggest that. But what is the best utility? Like if you were in front of a group of a thousand investors, what would you tell them to do right now?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, I'll make it. I'll make it really easy. So open letter marketing is going to be perfect for somebody that just wants direct mail and they want to work with a marketing coach. Okay. We have marketing coaches, we do real estate education. So anybody on the phones understand strategy. So if somebody's new or just wants that Handholding and just want direct mail and they're doing more bulk marketing. Then go with open letter marketing for those that just want, you know, maybe it's just automation like we were talking about. And zero minimums lower, you can do one offs and you want that integration piece, open letter connect. And then as somebody that wants everything, CRM, direct mail, like list building, all of that stuff, that would be envelope.

[Podcast Host]

Got it. And so the list stacking, let's talk about that because I think that is heavily important. I think after years of doing direct mail myself, I mean probably a better part of a decade, understanding who you're targeting, there was a moment where I would spray and pray. Right. I would go send 50,000 mail pieces to anyone in zip codes, like literally anybody. We would pick the zip codes we wanted the properties in the most. We sent it to everybody. It worked for a time. Right. But then there's kind of this like diminishing return scenario, right? Yeah. The list stacking I think is really pivotal, especially if you're actually trying to find motivation or in my case, I don't reverse flipping. I'm actually not even looking for motivation because these people are over it, they're losing the home. There's no more motivation left. Right. So let's talk to some of your clienteles. Like what are some of the lists or list stacking that you see your clients are really heavily diving into? Because I don't think it's the 50,000 mail pieces spray and pray anymore. I think it is niche down seven email pieces at a time to this one list for six straight months. What are you seeing?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, so different people have different requirements. Right. The larger operations that are doing a couple hundred like real estate deals a year, they're going to actually need to go really wide. So.

[Podcast Host]

So they're the spring break.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

They got to be able to cover everything.

[Justin Silverio]

They do niche it down a little bit. But they can only do so much because they actually have to spend a lot of money to get all those deals coming in. But for most people, again, going back to that, that example that I gave you is pulling those different lists. So most of the lists you can actually pull right inside of envelope.

[Podcast Host]

Got it.

[Justin Silverio]

And then the list that you're going to pull outside of envelope, usually at the county. Right. At the county level for like tax liens, water, water shut off firehouses, that sort of stuff, driving for dollars. And then you import it into the platform and again you, you list stack. So I was always a big proponent of never sprint prey. Right. I Always wanted to know I am going to spend a lot more money on my high quality leads and much less money on my low quality leads.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

Okay. So I would spend and I would hit them the high quality leads really hard with letters and postcards and all that. And then my low quality leads, I might just send a quarterly postcard. Right. Something very easy. So I'm spending most of my money toward those high quality leads and that helped me to significantly increase my ROI over the years. And I started to see a lot of people niche down, starting around, around Covid. When Covid hit, people started to adjust what they were doing and not go so crazy with direct mail. Also because of USPS like increases over the years, people have started to really take this on. What I mentioned is really focus on their highest quality leads and they're seeing a better return on their spend.

[Podcast Host]

What are you suggesting? I know that you already pre built a lot of mail pieces in there. Is there like a best performing mail piece? I know, you know people talk about sending UPS envelopes or like UPS envelopes. Right. So you might spend a little bit more because your open rate goes up. What are you suggesting? What are you seeing people doing with success?

[Justin Silverio]

Currently there's two products that are really working extremely well right now. One of them is a snap pack which is basically, you know, those tear away.

[Podcast Host]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

Packets. So those are working really well with an offer inside and a postcard that actually has an offer on it. So we have an offer system in basically all of our in open letter marketing that if you give us a list of properties, we can ask you what percentage of estimated value do you want to offer them. So you put in, you know, 60%, whatever it is. And then we would come up with those estimated offers and we would put that into the postcard. That's actually getting really great responses. Yeah. But even further to that, my big thing is if you want a true direct mail strategy, it's not just the one off as we were talking about. I always look at direct mail as campaigns. Okay. Multi touch. And you're almost forming a conversation with the seller.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

So in the beginning of the conversation, you provide very little information. Just get those people curious and calling you. And then over time, as your campaign goes on, you provide a lot more information and feedback.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Justin Silverio]

So that campaign could look like, you know, a postcard, handwritten letter, trifold flyer, offer, postcard, professional letter. So even the different touches and the different product types that we're sending actually curate different responses from different people. So it all it all is based off of investment strategy. How good are the leads, how much do you want to spend and all that that we actually come up with a true marketing campaign. And that's. That's unique to us. Nobody else does those campaigns. That's what we do. The Multi touch.

[Podcast Host]

This is what I think is really important for people to also understand. And you kind of glossed over it. Multi touch is. Is there's no way, if you send one group of male pieces out, a thousand pieces, name the number that you're going to get very far.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Because what you and I both know is we're working in an event in timing scenario.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

We need to hit them at the right timing when they're going through that event. That creates the motivation. And if you send one mail piece and no one calls you, it's because they don't have either of those on your side.

[Justin Silverio]

That's right.

[Podcast Host]

Right. They haven't hit the event and it's not the right time, so they're not going to call you.

[Justin Silverio]

I see.

[Podcast Host]

And I want to really impress upon people the secret sauce alongside of the offer postcard, alongside of the rip envelope is consistency. Consistency. Six straight months of banging the same people. Because again, you are dealing with someone who may not have an event today and they got your mail piece, but in two weeks, something happens, let's say a hurricane, and they say, I can't fix this. I don't even know what to. I'm going to call this guy, he sent me a mail piece two weeks ago. And they send. They call you because of the mail piece you sent two weeks ago. That is the level of, like, consistency. You need to keep at it because then you can find results. And it's discouraging because as a coach, I tell people this and they do one or two mailers and they're like.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, this doesn't work.

[Podcast Host]

Justin, you send two mailers.

[Justin Silverio]

Yep. I say the same thing, time and circumstance. You say event, I say circumstance. Same exact methodology. And the great thing with direct mail and the thing that I love about direct mail that always would get me, gets me excited, is when somebody calls you and you look in your list and you're like, oh, I haven't, like, you know, I've been sending the mail for the last three years because, like, within the first couple seconds it's like, oh, why did you decide to give me a call now? And then they take you through their circumstance that changed and that they need to sell. And you're like, oh, my God, this is Going to be a slam dunk. Those are like my best deals through direct mails. When somebody calls back after you've been.

[Podcast Host]

Mailing for so long, it's. And so talk about what people should probably expect to be good budget. I think there's a lot of people out there like, oh Justin, you're talking about 50,000. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I've been 17 years in the game. I've built a very nice business. I have a real big marketing budget. But many don't. So maybe start talking a little bit about like what would be considered an appropriate marketing budget.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, I would say over again, going back to those numbers, sending mail to about 2,500 records per month for six months. Probably somewhere depending on the product that you're using, anywhere from maybe 5,500 to 8,000 if you want to go, you know, in the higher end stuff because we have like real, real penned letters that are actually written by, with robots and stuff like that. So probably around that range is that.

[Podcast Host]

Month or is that over the 90 days?

[Justin Silverio]

No, over the, over the six months.

[Podcast Host]

Over the six months. So even if they went high end six months in your nine grand in.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah, probably something around there.

[Podcast Host]

Yep. Okay. And don't quote us. Right. You'd have to go in, go to envelo and go through and you know, obviously go choose what, you know what you want to do. Do you want the rip thing, the rip envelope, obviously more expensive, et cetera. But I think that helps people understand that Right now how I use it is I would encourage people that are already in the business. So if you're listening to this and you're active, I love direct mail for a nurture sequence. Maybe they've gone dark on you. Maybe, you know, you're not really moving the needle. They've been in your pipeline for a while. I like the re engagement. I like the re engagement factor. A little shock and awe. Maybe. Maybe it is the actual offer on the postcard. Maybe it's the rip envelope that changes it up. Right. Because you got to get top of mind and you know what your team calling every week, hey, seeing if anything changed. They get, they get worn out by it. They go deaf to it. Right. The audience goes deaf to it. So you got to use direct mail. How are you seeing, are you seeing a lot of clients kind of using it in the same way I do?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. So now that we have that, and that's the other reason we built that technology open letter connect and integration is because there's no minimums Right. Every direct mail company has a minimum set. So you can only. You have to send a minimum amount in order to even use direct mail.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

But now we offer that one off touch and we're seeing a lot more people utilize that integration specifically for that for the follow ups with their leads.

[Podcast Host]

So I want to get clear on everyone, so everyone understands Open Letter Marketing. If you're just like, I have my own CRM, I have my own thing and I just need the best mailing system with the best postcards or letters or handwritten letters, then you just want to go to open Letter marketing. Right. You don't necessarily need everything else. That's, that's the play.

[Justin Silverio]

That's right.

[Podcast Host]

Now how did, now if you need kind of the whole more robust CRM stacking list, you need the direct mail. You need more of the what I would, I hate to say, you probably hate me saying it, but like a business in a bot, like really everything.

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Together. Then you want to go to an envelope. Com. Right?

[Justin Silverio]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Now why would someone go to Open Letter Connect? What, what is that third one? And who would do it and why would they do it?

[Justin Silverio]

That's purely all for, mostly for integration. So if they want to integrate their own CRM and do like what we were just talking about, you like those one off messages. Very quick, get out to send a mail piece out to a seller. You can do all of that through integration using Open Letter Connect into any software platform, even your website. Right. If somebody goes onto your website, fills out a form, say hey, I'm looking to purchase this or sell this property, you can trigger a one off direct mail piece to them. That's right. Like here, here's an offer that we can give to you. Right.

[Podcast Host]

So you can side note, you should probably talk to Chris again about that because you know what we have on our website.

[Justin Silverio]

I do.

[Podcast Host]

That seems like a very obvious win for you.

[Justin Silverio]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Because we have a lot of members using it. Right. What would you like to maybe leave the audience with? I mean I would tell you guys, Open Letter marketing is a company. We've been with Justin for a decade. Maybe something close to that. Envelope is free right now. Envelope app.com. you know, version two is coming out next year. It won't be free. So at a minimum, get yourself an account. Right. Envelope app.com you have open Letter Connect. Maybe you already have a CRM and you just want to do one off mailing. Get to Open Letter Connect. But all in all, I love direct mail because I find it to be the best way to niche down into actually direct communication. Right. What would you want to leave the audience with regarding all three of these systems and what you've been able to build out?

[Justin Silverio]

Yeah. And the biggest thing too is if this is all confusing with all the different products, just go to open letter marketing and reach out to one of our marketing coaches. They're well versed on every single product that we offer. And again, our number one thing is value first. In education, we're going to listen to the person that calls in and understand what they're looking for and we can direct them anywhere like they need to go.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Silverio]

So if somebody is just like, hey, just give me one place, go to open letter marketing dot com, go there or call one of our marketing coaches and they can absolutely help you out. The biggest thing is like, you know, direct to seller marketing. It is a critically important piece of any real estate investors business. Right. To get deals. Really, you can't find them online, you know, on the MLS anymore. So your ability to get deals in the door, that is what makes a business. If you don't have deals coming in, you don't have a business. And we really perfected the direct mail aspect of off market marketing. So if anybody has any questions with direct mail, I welcome them to reach out to us.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And make sure you look up Justin Silverio. Direct mail is something that you need to have as part of your pipeline. I always say you got to be dynamic and you need to do that in how you acquire property, but also how you find the property in marketing. If you're using ppc, ppl, cold calling, texting. You also need a layer in direct mail. Don't be silly. You don't have to spend 40 or $50,000 on it. You could do a 70 person list. Very targeted, very niche. It can be very affordable. And so make sure you're going to open letter marketing.com, talk to some of their coaches, get educated, understand the systems. Cool. All right, dude, great episode. Really appreciate you.

[Justin Silverio]

Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

Right on. Well, if you got something from this, everybody, make sure you share this with two of your friends and I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest.

[Blue Nile Representative]

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