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- [00:00]
John
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [00:14]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be.
- [00:30]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 upfront.
- [00:54]
Justin
Payment equivalent to $15 per month.
- [00:56]
Keith Sant
New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 gigabytes.
- [01:00]
Justin
Details.
- [01:00]
Keith Sant
And at the end of the day, Google is just an algorithm. It's a robot and it crawls pages and it deter, you know, and so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show Google we have the best and most complete answer and get above the guy and the guy's next to you. That's the other really cool thing about SEO I love. It's not you don't have to have the best website in the world. You just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you. And a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you'd think.
- [01:28]
Justin
What is up? The science of Flipping Family. I am back with another incredible guest here at the Science Flipping Podcast. If you are doing any level of marketing and you are feeling like the cost of your leads are drastically going up, especially for those that are doing any level of PPC or ppl, you will want to listen to this entire episode because my boy Keith Sant from seometer is here. Keith, what is up my friend?
- [01:58]
Keith Sant
What's up, Justin? Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
- [02:01]
Justin
Yeah, dude, I'm excited about this. I've been marketing now for better part of 15 years. The first couple years I was still broke, so I didn't spend any money. But I had no idea about SEO back then. But what I can tell you in this audience listening and watching this. If you are spending any money at all on PPC or ppl, stay tuned because what Keith and I are going to talk to you about and what he does and he's an expert at, is lowering your cost by about 90% and having just as qualified, if not more qualified leads coming into your database. So, Keith, let's talk first about that. Talk to me about the SEO process and why would someone want to do that versus a ppc?
- [02:43]
Keith Sant
Um, that's a good question. So, like, why people would want to do it versus ppc? I don't think it's an exact replacement. They could actually complement each other because there's sometimes where like, hey, if you're like, you know, I need to get leads, like today you're going to want to, you know, pay per click, Facebook ads, something to like, drive traffic today. SEO definitely is a long run or a long game. Like, I. And what I mean by that is I could typically get people leads within like three months. And like, they're closing deals by like four to six months for sure. And then everything just kind of snowballs after that. Like, it, you know, it might take you six months to close the first deal and then you close another one and, you know, a month later or two months later and end up saying, you know, you're closing a deal a month for half the price, 10% of the cost of like pay per click.
- [03:31]
Justin
Well, one thing I want to bring to light is someone myself who has spent, I'm guessing I've probably spent somewhere between half a million and three quarters of a million dollars on ppc, and I'm probably closer to three quarter of a million. I will tell you the key, and you know this, but the key of this audience is listening. Like, yeah, but I want leads right now. Okay, fine. But if you're paying 90% more for leads right now, I would tell this audience, be a little bit more patience, have a little bit more patience for leads in 60 days or 90 days, because you're going to pay 90% less. And that is a, it's a mind ship. Like, they got to shift their mindset around all this.
- [04:14]
Keith Sant
Absolutely. And it's not, it's not easy to do for a lot of people, I don't know, especially Realtors, for sure. Like, they, they are notorious for not wanting to put a lot of money into their marketing. But even, you know, real estate investors, like, people just want stuff now, right? Instant gratification. But if you're willing to wait, it's. It's huge. And I'm not saying, hey, like I typically tell people like SEO shouldn't be the very first marketing channel, especially if you're new or like that's not the first thing you invest in. But you know, let's just say your marketing budget's four grand a month or three grand a month. Like let's just say 500 towards SEO and 35 to the other. Like a year from now you wish you started today, even if you started a small budget. And then you could always reinvest and work it or work your way up.
- [04:57]
Justin
But yeah, yeah, there's no doubt. You know, listen again, someone who I actively market today, we market very heavily and I would tell you some of this goes along with the branding play. And I wanted to bring this up because when you rank on Google organically, right, for those that maybe not know what SEO is, I don't want to make any assumptions. There's maybe someone on here listening this or watching this on YouTube. If you're not watching this, you need to go over my YouTube subscribe and watch these episodes. I have incredible guests. Let's take a step back, describe what is SEO? What is happening? Why is it.
- [05:39]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
This episode brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game?
- [05:46]
Keith Sant
Shifting a little money here, a little there and hoping it all works out well?
- [05:51]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
With the name your price tool from.
- [05:53]
Keith Sant
Progressive, you can get a better budgeter.
- [05:55]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
And and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to.
- [05:59]
Keith Sant
Pay for car insurance and they'll help.
- [06:01]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Find you options within your budget. Try it today@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [06:15]
Keith Sant
This is a mini meditation guided by Bombas.
- [06:19]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Repeat after me. I'm comfy.
- [06:21]
Keith Sant
Comfy.
- [06:22]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
I'm cozy.
- [06:23]
Keith Sant
Cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes.
- [06:25]
Justin
Blisters.
- [06:26]
Keith Sant
And that's because I wear bombs. Bombas. The softest socks, underwear and T shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombas.com listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com.
- [06:42]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Listen and use code Listen at checkout.
- [06:45]
John
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [06:59]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be, to be.
- [07:15]
Ryan Reynolds
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.
- [07:26]
Keith Sant
Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. 30, 30. Better to get 30. Better to get 20, 20, 20. Better get 20, 20. Better get 15. 15, 15, 15.
- [07:36]
Ryan Reynolds
Just 15 bucks a month.
- [07:37]
Justin
Sold.
- [07:37]
Ryan Reynolds
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch.
- [07:39]
Keith Sant
$45 upfront payment equivalent to 15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only.
- [07:43]
Justin
Taxes and fees. Extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes. In detail different than PPC, you know, because there's, there's people that probably, I'm assuming, know, but maybe they don't really know the differences.
- [07:54]
Keith Sant
Yeah. So if you Google anything at all, right, you might see like a couple spots at the top where it says like ad next to it. Ad. Those are, those are like your pay per click ads. So you're actually paying for those to be placed at the top. Anything right below that, those are your organic search results. Google's whole job is to put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible. And so search engine optimization is basically showing Google that we have the best and the most complete answer for the things we want to or we want to show up for. And at the end of the day, Google is just an algorithm. It's a robot and it crawls pages and it determines, you know, and so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show Google we have the best and most complete answer and get above the guy and the guy next to you. That's the other really cool thing about SEO I love. It's not you don't have to have the best website in the world. You just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you. And a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you'd think.
- [08:48]
Justin
You know the cool part about SEO that maybe people think about, maybe they don't. If I'm going and I search something on Google, right? The thing I love about it, and you already know this, Google is intent based, right? Where Facebook is interest based. So when you want to go figure something out, you go to Google, not Facebook. Typically what I love about it is I will see literally homeowners go search Sell my house fast as an example. And they will click like the top 5, 6, 7 websites in fill out forms on all of them. And if you have a good ranking in SEO, dude, you don't have to pay for that.
- [09:31]
Keith Sant
Once you get ranking good in any market or even before you have like to get more leads in the same market, having multiple sites is the way to go. Like, I have like five different sites in my one main market and like 14 sites total. One of my biggest clients, he's got 19 sites all in the state of Texas. If you Google like a lot of phrases, he's like six of the 10 search results. And I talked to him the other day, he had a lady got seven offers. Five of them were from him. He ended up getting the deal because each one, hey, this is so and so, hey, yeah, so now the value in that, because I know some people are like, oh, I don't want to pay for this samely twice. Like, oh, like I'm working twice as hard to get the same lead. And like my argument, like, I would rather pay an extra 100, 200 bucks or whatever to, or 300 bucks to get the same lead twice than to be getting out bid or bid up so high that I can't get the deal. Or like, you know, that the margin just shrinks so low. Like, you know, I'd much rather pay 400 bucks than be bid up 20 grand at the negotiating table, if that makes sense.
- [10:38]
Justin
Well, that's actually a really super ninja move that he's doing. Right? Because like I just said, you know, you see these individuals that literally will go down the first five or 10 people on the page and fill out all their forms. Well, if you're the, you know, top five organically ranked websites, right. To your point, there's always going to be the people that spend money on ads, right? Those have those yellow ad signs. Great. But you don't have to. You're organically ranking, right? Your service, SEO meets REI.com helps them rank. You don't have to do anything. And if someone fills out four of your sites, you have four opportunities to win the deal at no cost relative to these PBC people who are paying 350, 400, 500 per lead. Well, your cost is so relevant, irrelevant to theirs that why not give yourself the shot at actually getting the deed, not losing it, right? Because otherwise, if you were to go on ppc as you know, you're just gonna level each other up next, you know, 750 for the lead.
- [11:48]
Keith Sant
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's it Like I remember when I first started because I'm an investor too. Like I do SEO for people, but I started my own stuff and when I started pay per click back in like 2018, I was getting liens for like 150, 125. You know, it was, it was awesome. I do that all day long. And then it went up to you know, 300 and then four, four, you know, like it kind of cooled down a little bit but like towards the beginning of last year it was like 4:50,500 elite in my, in my like Seattle Tacoma market just for PBC years at ppl. Yeah, yeah. Pay per click, ppc. But I mean even some of the PPL stuff too. Like you know, people, you know, they bid. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of psychology and that, but people just outbid just to be number one, even if it doesn't make sense. And I wish a lot, I wish more people would do, you know, their roas return on ad spend return, you know what their actual cost per deal was from the different marketing channels because yeah, you want to do more of what's actually working.
- [12:50]
Justin
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- [15:58]
Keith Sant
Yeah, so I started, I was doing it on my own, right from my own websites. I, I had a ton of people ask me to do SEO forum. I would always send them to like, you know, there was one company at the time that I thought was probably the best out there at that. At that time I sent one of my biggest clients or one, one client to them and after like a year with them, like he still wasn't getting the results. And I just noticed like a to of holes and flaws and I'm like, oh my God. So like, and I honestly, like, I love this stuff. I nerd out on this. I'm good at closing deals. I could close deals and negotiate all day long. It's just at the end of the day, like it drains my energy. I'm like exhausted after talking to a bunch of sellers and buyers and all that stuff. So like I love doing the SEO stuff. I don't know why I'm a freak. But so yeah, about two years ago I actually stopped it. I haven't talked to the seller in like two, two years. All my leads go to one guy. He closes the deals. We split at 50, 50. Like my websites are like assets for me. And then. Yeah. And so I've Been doing SEO full time for people. I didn't create an SEO company because I wanted to. I just kind of realized like the world needed me too because no one out there was doing it. Right.
- [17:10]
Justin
I feel like that's what most entrepreneurs. Right. I have a totally separate podcast called Entrepreneur DNA. But a lot of times business gets developed because you have a value to the world that needs to be given and your calling almost becomes like, I need to give people this value that I can deliver for them. Right. So I think that's a very common thread within entrepreneurship. So good for you. And then you're able to continue your real estate business and have this talk. Talk to us a little bit about branding within this. I know I brought it up and we didn't complete the sentence, but I really believe branding plays a big role in SEO. Right. How do you view that? Right, because ppc, you are literally paying per click. The brand is irrelevant. Right? Like they're paying. They click your ad, it says, we'll buy your home fast. They say, great, sounds good to me. They don't care about the brand, they just want to sell fast. Right. SEO is a little bit different here. Talk to us about how the brand plays into ranking within Google.
- [18:14]
Keith Sant
Yeah, absolutely. I'll say this multiple times. But again, Google's whole job, put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible. But they want to put a real, legit, credible company to the top of Google, not a fly by night website that knows how to optimize. And there's, there's different ways that Google could say, hey, is this a real company? But yeah, your branding is super important. You know, having, having social media profiles is like really important. A real legit company would have a LinkedIn, would have a Facebook, would have an Instagram, would have, you know, these certain little things. The other really big thing that, that plays effect is people searching your brand name. Right. Because that's one of the ways Google could determine is this a real legit, credible company? Because no, you know, it's not a real legit credible company if no one's googling like my name. My company is like kind house buyers, right. If no one is googling kindhouse buyers each month, my website wouldn't do anything if that, if that makes sense or it'd be very, very hard. So I, yeah, if you're doing any other marketing, like you know, let's just say radio, tv, those are way crazy. But you know, even your postcards, putting your website or brand name on bandit signs. You know, definitely branding your Facebook ads. Running a couple dollars a Day on YouTube with your company on it. Your Google display ads are another really good way to for really cheap to get your company name out there and just be seen a ton and to get people curious and they google your brand name and then that helps your SEO and everything.
- [19:49]
Justin
But yeah, absolutely. So let's just use an example. I'm going to use myself as an example. So I run commercial ads in Alabama and it's called justinbuysbama.com you would tell someone like me because I'm not currently doing this, you would say, my dad.
- [20:04]
John
Works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [20:18]
LinkedIn Ad Voice
Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be.
- [20:34]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mint mobile.com Switch $45.
- [20:59]
Keith Sant
Upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only Taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of details.
- [21:04]
Justin
A good idea would for you to hire us so we can run SEO for Justin buys Bama. Because the reality is there's no one googling justin buys bama.com no one even know that website exists until they see the commercial make sense. So would you advise that that would be an actual good thing for someone like myself to be doing?
- [21:29]
Keith Sant
100%. Sometimes a brand is a lot easier than others, right? Like, like not. Justin buys Bama is an example of one that's actually pretty easy because no one else. There's only like one other guy I see like you know, Justin buys houses. It's kind of on the same first page kind of competing with the brand name. But like there's like there's like John buys houses and John Medina buys houses and John buys your house and John buys Bay Area houses. And there's like. So I wouldn't even mess with a company name like that because you're never going to be able to rank like you're none that I say I wouldn't mess with it, you know, if that, if that's your company name that it is what it is, but it's going to be harder. Right. You want kind of something a little unique and what that's going to allow you to do is you want, if someone Googles your company name to dominate as much of the first page as possible. Right. So if someone Googles Justin buys Bama houses, you definitely want to be. And you are right now, but you want to be above the Justin buys houses.
- [22:26]
Justin
Yeah.
- [22:26]
Keith Sant
Guy. Because you don't want to do marketing. And now all of a sudden they click on the wrong website on accident and you just paid for them to get a lead.
- [22:34]
Justin
That's right. Well, and that's, that's the point that I was kind of making why your one client is so brilliant because he probably has like the top five links, right? So they're going to keep going gung and it's all him, dude. I think it's really brilliant for him to do that. Even though technically he might be paying you more because you're working on five websites, but who cares? The alternative is to go pay $700 for that lead. That may or may not ever be a deal. And at least you're surrounding the top, you know, five spots on the page.
- [23:08]
Keith Sant
Yeah, absolutely.
- [23:10]
Justin
Yeah.
- [23:10]
Keith Sant
Even with him duplicating leads. I just talked to him a couple days ago. He was showing me all of his numbers and he's getting, you know, cost per deal is like 2500 with SEO and he still spends 30k a month with pay per click and that's 4500 a deal. So it's literally in half. And the longer he does it, the cost was actually way lower. But then he added a bunch more sites and so that front loaded a lot more. And so his cost per deal went up and now it's going down even more again. It's going to be under a thousand here in the next six months or so.
- [23:40]
Justin
What? The thing that I always preach in terms of marketing is like you can't be a one trick pony. So there's a lot of people out there that are like only doing ppc. That doesn't make any sense. Like in a minimum they need to be using your service minimum, they're already directing everything to Google. Right. They're paying Google to drive leads into their data, so why not have more of a presence? So I would tell anyone out there, if you're already doing PPC of any sort, big or small, you need to be going to SEO meets rei.com and speaking with Keith and his team. Because don't be a one trick pony at a minimum. Right. But I also tell you guys, if you're out there doing direct mail, this is a great. To your point, Keith, like how many of your clients are actively using direct mail and leveraging that marketing piece to push into a website that is that you're working to organically rank the ones that are.
- [24:32]
Keith Sant
Are doing really well. Yeah, they really are. Yeah.
- [24:36]
Justin
What is your in terms of your clients? What are some of the better clients like, what are you seeing them do well, that maybe some of the other clients should be doing?
- [24:46]
Keith Sant
Definitely divert, you know, getting those brand searches up. Facebook ads are another really good way to do that. Right. Like you mentioned, like, you wouldn't do pay per click. I wouldn't do pay per click without also doing Facebook ads. Like at least the retargeting because you spend like 90 bucks a click, sometimes 120. 20 bucks a click. These really expensive clicks. And like the person doesn't fill out the form like right then at that moment, like you want to be able to go back and like retarget that audience. And like my cost per lead on the retargeting on the paper click on the Facebook stuff is like 50 bucks a lead in the same market. So you're just basically picking up all the last little bit of juice from your expensive pay per click budget or your expensive, you know, direct mail or anything else you're doing.
- [25:28]
Justin
Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, you know, this is an and for probably everyone listening to this. If you're listening or watching this on YouTube, this is like an and for all of you. Right. Even if you haven't yet. Now let me ask you, Keith, if someone hasn't yet got to the point of spending some decent money in marketing, wouldn't you even consider the person who's more of a newbie for such a low cost? Hey, utilize all your other resources, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and have your website on. Let us work your website for ranking because you can use every other free resource you need to push into the website. Wouldn't you suggest that for a newbie?
- [26:16]
Keith Sant
Absolutely, absolutely. And I don't know, I didn't mention it, but we do have a Facebook group too, called SEO meets real. It's called SEO meets Real Estate investors. We teach a lot of this stuff for free. I'm a huge, I'm, I'm a huge fan of the underdog. Like we'll teach you how to do it for free. Like I just do it for people that have more money than they have time.
- [26:37]
Justin
And so Real estate meets Real Estate Investors Facebook Group. Go search them out, right? Is it closed or is it public?
- [26:47]
Keith Sant
Oh, no, it's a public one. You just click an invite or. Yeah, yeah.
- [26:51]
Justin
So as you guys are kind of want to know more and how you can utilize this, go to Real SEO meets Real Estate Investors Facebook Group. Now, do you guys post the website? Where would you suggest they get websites? Do you have someone to service it or would like a minute pages website work or what do you guys do?
- [27:11]
Keith Sant
Like almost 90% or like probably 95% plus of my clients are on carrot. Um, they're the best out there for, you know, websites for real estate investors. I definitely recommend them. All of my sites are kara sites. I'm a big fan of them. Um, we worked on some WordPress sites too. I haven't played with a minute page or anything else. Um, but I mean, website at the.
- [27:34]
Justin
End of the day, direct competitor to investor carrot.
- [27:38]
Keith Sant
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:41]
Justin
So yeah, and they function the same. But the point being is like I don't want people to over complicate this. Oh, I gotta go build a website and I gotta go. No, no, no, no. Minute pages or investor Care. There's ways that you can get a pre templatized website that Keith, you can work with, right? And so the point being is people shouldn't be overthinking this too much, right? Your service really can help them do it. Now you're doing it for them, right? They don't, they don't functionally need to do much, right? They get their website and they say, hey, you go get this website ranked, right?
- [28:16]
Keith Sant
Yeah, I mean, I do both. Again, like if they want, like I'll tell you how to do it and you go do it yourself or I'll do it for you. I mean there's a ton that goes into like actually, you know, optimizing your site, right? Like let's say you get a stock minute page or carrot site, right? Like you want to make it different. And there's a ton of those, you know, those little things that Google crawls, that algorithm, you know, they first they crawl your title, right? Like a lot of people their, their stock title Is like, you know, sell my house fast, Alabama, you know, Justin buys. Or, you know, Justin buys, Bama. And that's not that great of a title. There's a lot of other, you know, like for instance, I have three keywords in my title. I, you know, sell my house fast dash, you know, we buy houses, dash, cash, home buyers, you know, and. And that's just the title. Then you get into the meta description. You get. Your headings are really valuable.
- [29:09]
Justin
That kind of stuff too.
- [29:12]
Keith Sant
Yeah, yeah. There's just all these little tiny things. These, you know, again, you don't have to have the best website in the world, just a little better than the guy in front of you. There's tools like, you know, there's SEO Quake, which is a really good free resources where you could kind of look and see what your competitor site looks like. Just really quick snapshot and boom. Are these things checked? Like, what's their. What's their density look like? What's their title? Meta, keywords, do they have alt text on their images? How many images do they have, you know, et cetera. And then you just make it a little better. Yeah, yeah.
- [29:45]
Justin
Well, I was gonna say people like myself, they don't want to know how the engine works. They just want the car to drive. Right? So that's the beautiful part of what you offer is like, I would not want to think about a single thing that you just said. I would just say, hey, Keith, please help me just get this to be the best it can be. Right? And that's how everyone really like in our space, everyone in the entrepreneur real estate investing space should really be thinking, that's not my strong suit. For most people, what you're doing is not their strong suit. They should outsource it to someone like you. That's the reality, right? So they can go get their next deal, so they can work the lead, so they can make the offer, so they can talk to the seller. Now, the other thing is, you may not have heard of. Have you ever heard of Lead Detector IO, which is essentially a pixel that would sit on your website, so when you're driving traffic, it'll capture another 20 to 30% of the data that people are visiting your website. I'd encourage you, if you don't know about it, check that out. I think that could be a great resource for you, your clients, et cetera. But it just boosts the opportunities that you're going to have because it lays over your website and you can capture another 20 or 30% contact information. The direct contact information. And so if you're already finding traffic, it's going to boost your traffic. So that would be another thing that I would tell you. Could be a key thing.
- [31:03]
Keith Sant
Yeah, no, I agree with what you're saying. Like, hey, I'm. I wouldn't, you know, like, I never want to know, like, exactly how to drywall a house, but I kind of want to know. So that way I know that my drywallers are doing a good job. And the thing with SEO is it's so foreign to a ton of people that they just hire whoever, and then that's. That's where I come in. Because they're hiring all these people that say they're the guru or the shit and they suck, and they're not actually providing any services. So, like, I like to kind of show people that I actually know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Just because, like, then they know, hey, Keith is. Keith knows what the hell he's talking about. I know I'm not going to do all that because it's probably way over my head, but I know he knows what. What's going on, and, like, he's the guy.
- [31:50]
Justin
Well, Andy, here's the thing that, you know, you bring to the table for everyone, your clients. You're a real estate investor yourself. This was born out of you doing it for your own business. And I think that's a huge, huge value for you listeners right now is to understand Keith does the business still. He's not just some SEO dude. He's a real estate investor. And I'm a big champion. A big champion for my community, meaning the Keiths of the world, who don't just turn into some data guy, and this is all they do now is they functionally developed something from their own business, created value for their own business, and created another business from it. But he still runs the tried and true business of real estate. And so that's a big value for a lot of your clients, is you know what to do, you know what you're looking for.
- [32:43]
Keith Sant
Absolutely.
- [32:44]
Justin
Yeah, absolutely. I would tell all of you, at minimum, just pure minimum, go to his free Facebook group. Get more educated. Right. I think, you know, to Keith, your point, you and I don't necessarily know how the engine needs to run. We just want the car to go. But to understand it a little bit would be valuable. Right? SEO meets real estate investor. The group on Facebook, the website, SEO meets realestateinvestor.com or SEO meets rei.com that would be huge for you guys to just talk to his Team. I would assume if they go to the website, someone from your team would be able to have a conversation with them.
- [33:21]
Keith Sant
Oh, yeah. If they book a call with me, I'm the guy. I'll be on the call with them. I'll. Yeah. Answer any question, show them, you know, results, clients, what to expect, prices, all that stuff.
- [33:33]
Justin
Talk to me about what. What's one of your better clients doing this year? How. How have they done this year?
- [33:39]
Keith Sant
I mean, I got one guy that's just insanely crushing it. But again, he. He understood the value and put a ton of money into it. He's been in, like, 20 grand a month. But with just you. He was with just me across 19 different sites right now.
- [33:54]
Justin
Wow.
- [33:54]
Keith Sant
But no, he does another 30 in pay per click, plus other stuff too. But again, he's done like 1.6 million in assignments and everything or this year to date, he's been with me a couple of years. Last year. I don't. I forget the numbers. Last year.
- [34:07]
Justin
Yeah.
- [34:08]
Keith Sant
But. Yeah, so even though he's. He spent a ton, like, his ROI is like, insanely high and way better than any of his other marketing channels. Like, a typical. Like, another guy. I got another guy, like, out of Kansas City. He's getting like, 90 leads a month right now. Yeah. And he's been with me a while. So that's the other cool thing about SEO. Well, the other part of SEO are backlinks, right? So you dial in your page better than the guy next to you. That's what I do with, like, the website build or I teach you how to do. And the other part, I get more backlinks than the guy next to you. That's typically a little harder. Most people like that. They definitely probably want to hit me up because you could get backlinks that don't work. You could execute it wrong. It actually hurt you more than help you. This guy actually, you know, did a bunch that didn't help him. He hired me in, like, 2022. I redid everything. He's spending, like, three grand a month in backlinks. We redid his website. He's doing three grand a month about it. Literally a year. A year ago, I hit him up. I'm like, nick, you're crushing it. You're, like, ranking number one for everything in your market. I can't get you any higher on the site. Like, if you want to add another site, I can, but. Or if you want to expand your site and go out into multiple states, and we can do that too, but otherwise, like, you don't have. If you don't have to keep spending three grand a month on backlinks just for the sake of spending three grand, you could do like 500 bucks a month and just maintain your rankings, which he's done. And now he's still getting 90 leads a month right now, which is insane. And like, there's no other marketing channel like that. And so he finally, we just did a second site for him and now he's starting. He just got his first like, in city lead a couple of days ago, but also got a bunch of, you know, the surrounding Blue Springs, Olay, all the other little cities too. But that's the cool thing about SEO. Even my site too, that I started back in 2017, 2018, I only put like, I got like 90 leads on it this month, and I only put like 500 bucks a month out in that because I already did all the hard work. That's right. But it is one of those things where it's like, if you bought a rental, right, you got to put some money into it, fix it up, you get a renter in there, it's going to be a while before you actually hit that break even point and you get your money back. But then next thing you know, you're like, I'm cash flowing and I have appreciation. This is amazing. Let's do it again. But in the beginning, you're like, oh, when am I going to get my money back? Kind of thing. Typically, I've seen people spend anywhere like 10 to 15k just before they close their first deal. Like, sometimes with SEO, just straight up, like. But some people close a lot less, you know, I'm just saying. But even on the highest end, they spent 15k, they closed their first deal that typically pays for itself. And now, you know, their next deal.
- [36:46]
Justin
Is, you know, you said something that's so key. And I want everyone to go back and rewind this one point, which is you need to have marketing stamina. If you are going to get into the marketing game. Don't have this unrealistic expectation that in the first 30 days you're going to spend this money, you're going to get a deal, you're going to make money. You need to be able to have a Runway. And the Runway, to me is really six months. It's not. 90 days is six months. So regardless of whether you choose SEO or anything else, if you start to work with Keith, you need to understand, based around the conversation you have with Keith, you need to run that for six months, period. @ the minimum. And then you can assess what has happened. Where are we at, what is going on, what does it look like? And make decisions moving forward. But anything less, you're just not doing yourself any justice and you're going to quit too early. And it's that age old, you know, three feet from gold, right? You're going to be right there. And you quit because you had this expectation that it would have happened earlier. So you quit. You could have had $100,000 deal as your next phone call, but you stopped, right?
- [37:51]
Keith Sant
100%, absolutely.
- [37:53]
Justin
I greatly appreciate you coming on, man. I think everyone needs to know more and believe more in SEO. And you're that guy, right? Keith Sant from SEO meets REI.com SEO meets real estate investing, the Facebook group. Make sure you're connecting with Keith, his team, the Facebook group at minimum. And brother, I appreciate you coming on.
- [38:16]
Keith Sant
Likewise. I appreciate you having me, man. You enjoy your day.
- [38:19]
Justin
And guys, if this helped you guys or you learned something and you like this, make sure you share it with at least two of your friends. We'll see you with another great guest on the next episode.
- [38:36]
John
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [38:50]
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