← The MORE Show
Loading summary
Transcript204 lines
- [00:02]
A
Lowe's has the Labor Day deals you need to give your home a new look.
- [00:06]
B
Buy one, get one free. Select interior, paint via Visa gift card.
- [00:10]
A
Rebate, then add the final touch with.
- [00:12]
B
Two for $8 on select 2.5 or 3 quart mums.
- [00:17]
A
Refresh your home and save big while doing it.
- [00:20]
B
Lowes we help you save valid through nine.
- [00:23]
A
Three mums offer in store only. Selection varies by location while supplies last.
- [00:26]
B
More terms and restrictions apply. Seeloes.com rebates for details at Capella University.
- [00:32]
C
Learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Edu.
- [00:46]
A
That's a big concern for people is I don't want to amend the returns and all of that. Well, you can technically go back to 86 when the tax law changed. No kidding. With the 3115 now, typically, you won't go back that far. The real window of opportunity for people where it makes financial sense because the accountants will often say, justin, what are you going to do this for? It's just a timing difference. Yeah, that's what they say. They go, oh, it's just a timing difference. Well, it is a timing difference, but if I give you the opportunity, Justin, to take a deduction today versus 27 and a half or 39 years, would you rather have it today or would you rather. Wait, what is up?
- [01:24]
B
The Science of Flipping. This might be my favorite episode year today because it's all about paying no taxes ever again. This episode is one that you are going to want to stick with because I have a dear friend of mine who has done 25,000 cost seg studies in the last 25 years and have saved people over $4 billion. Jeff Hyatt. What is up, brother?
- [01:49]
A
Hey. Thank you very much for having me here, Justin. I'm thrilled to be here. I've seen some of your prior episodes and they're amazing and the folks you bring in. So thank you for allowing me to darken your doorway here. So.
- [02:01]
B
Yeah, well, I appreciate it. You are. You are my very own cost segregation specialist. So if you need anybody to do your cost segregation studies, I'm telling you, this man does it for me. He's done it for 25,000 other people. He has helped save $4 billion of income taxes. Or maybe I'm saying that a little wrong, but $4 billion of taxable income. Guys, this is your man. So first of all, go follow him. And at depreciation doctor on Instagram, Facebook, I think he says, Jeff, depreciation doctor. You got it. Cost segs.com is the website. Cost segs plural.com. this is my guy, so he's good enough for you guys. So with that out of the way, let's talk about what the hell is a cost seg and why is it so important?
- [02:50]
A
So cost segregation studies are the way the IRS allows you to accelerate depreciation. So a cost per se doesn't give you more depreciation, but it allows you to take the depreciation you would get over 27 and a half or 39 years. It allows you to take some of it earlier. And by taking it earlier, what that does for the buyer of the property, the owner of the property, is allow them to reduce their current income tax. So instead of sending money to Washington D.C. they get to redeploy that money in their own world and buy their next property more quickly. Or they can, you know, buy, you know, they can improve the building so that thereby they can charge maybe a higher rent without having to go to the bank for more mortgage money.
- [03:34]
B
Yeah, the simplicity is you don't have to cut a check to the irs. You can actually keep the money and either improve your property or buy another property, etc. I mean, that's the simplicity of it. This is why it's brilliant. Now the, the key that I want to make a major distinction because I come from this single family space, where's the argument where it's worth it to do a cost segregation study on a single family home more often than not, now that I'm also in the apartment space and more in the commercial side and all these other things, that is the obvious. And we'll get there. But for all my single family lovers that have rentals or maybe even fix and flips or whatever, where's the fine line for, for you that you advise like it's worth it to do a cost study or it's not.
- [04:13]
A
Way back in the day when we first started, we might have said you need to be at about a million dollars. Now that was 25 years ago because we didn't have the same database, we didn't have the same technology, we didn't have the same team that we have now?
- [04:26]
B
Yeah.
- [04:27]
A
Because we have about 10 accountant types and about 27 engineer types, we can now push that number down to somewhere around 300 grand of depreciable basis. And that could be in one property or it could be across multiple Properties. So, so ultimately what happens is it may not make sense financially for $100,000 property, but if we can aggregate a bunch of them together, that can start to make sense if we can get to a certain threshold. Okay, so be a really low number.
- [04:58]
B
Yeah. So for example, I'm doing a bulk loan, I'm taking five of my rentals and I'm wrapping it into one loan. So I could go take those five and do a cost study against those five. I'm making up the number. Let's just say they're all five combined are worth 800 grand. I'm making up the number. Then it would make sense where independently they're worth 150 grand.
- [05:18]
A
And that could be a challenge because it just won't, it won't look exciting to you. You'll look at and go whatever. Yeah, but if you're talking about an $800,000 basis, then we can start to make it look good.
- [05:31]
B
Okay, so well then I'm going to call you after this episode again. We'll put that into my next round of things to do.
- [05:38]
A
Perfect. And on that note, what I when I said make it look good, typically what we find is that the, the metric that most clients look at is, hey, if I spend a dollar, how many dollars am I going to get back in tax deferral?
- [05:53]
B
That's right.
- [05:54]
A
So you spend a buck, you say four or five bucks. Most people will say, hey, that's a good deal, let's do it.
- [05:59]
B
That's right.
- [05:59]
A
We hit that threshold kind of at a minimum around 300 grand. Especially bonus depreciation helps turbocharge that number.
- [06:09]
B
Right.
- [06:09]
A
So that can be really good.
- [06:10]
B
So this is where me and my accountant go head to head a lot of times. Right. What is depreciable, what is in what's going to count, what's not going to count. So let's talk a lot about the grainy alert. There's not a lot of people that are nearly as familiar as obviously you or even myself. Right. You are infinitely more experience. But I know enough what is depreciable and how does that look? Let's just use a single family home. Let's stick with that for the time being. If I buy a home, I renovate the home and then I rent it. The classic brrrr model.
- [06:42]
A
Sure.
- [06:43]
B
What's depreciable? What is the bonus depreciation? Is it qualify for it? Let's kind of walk through all that as a real estate investor and entrepreneur. I've hired a lot of people Vas Acquisition reps, lead managers, and I'll be real hiring can be a headache. You can get buried in resumes, but barely anyone actually fits the role. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. But not with ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter makes the hiring process way easier. They find great candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it free@ziprecruiter.com work here's the deal. The second you post a job, ZipRecruiter smart tech kicks in and starts matching you with the quality talent immediately. Real people, real skills. No fluff. And when someone stands out, you can hit them up directly using ZipRecruiter's built in invite to apply feature. Saves you time and get you in front of the right people fast. So stop spinning your wheels on hiring. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the needle in the haystack. 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate in the first day. So try it for free. Ziprecruiter.com work ziprecruiter.com work zipRecruiter the smartest.
- [08:04]
C
Way to Hire At Capella University learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more@capella.edu.
- [08:21]
A
Great. No problem. So I'll, I'll say the tax code says to you, hey Justin, your building to be a building has to have certain things. And it doesn't matter if it's a single family residential home or like rental home or if it's a 30 story building. A building is going to have certain components, okay, without getting into all the detail and all the specific designations. But when you boil it down, it's walls, windows, doors, roof H Vac, plumbing for a bathroom, any electrical for lighting. Those are the building components, those pieces. So those are either going to be 27 and a half year for a residential rental or 39 years if it's commercial or short term rental. Okay? So that's kind of the baseline. So what we need to do and what a cost study does is identify the pieces that are not in those categories and in your mind and you probably our listeners minds, they're going oh my gosh, he just said everything in the building, what's left, right? But you typically get into things like the wiring and the floor coverings, whether it's carpet or a Particular type of vinyl flooring or laminate, that kind of thing you get oftentimes into the kitchen space or the plumbing for the kitchen, you know the like for the disposal and the pipes. And you're going to have an ice water line to the refrigerator and the electrical for the refrigerator and the electrical for the dishwasher and the microwaves and the cabinetry is oftentimes considered in that accelerated category. So when you stack all that up, you could be somewhere between 15 and 25% legitimately in a faster life.
- [10:11]
B
Now in the, when you say 15 or 20%, you're saying 15 or 20% of the value of the home, of the purchase price of the purchase price of the home.
- [10:19]
A
Excuse me, less land. So purchase price, less land. Because unfortunately the tax code doesn't let us work off of what it's valued at.
- [10:30]
B
Right.
- [10:30]
A
And us real estate guys, because I, I am also in the real estate side of the house too, us real estate guys all go, well, it's worth this. Well, unfortunately that doesn't help us with the tax code. That's the tax code says what is your basis in the building? Less land. So what did you pay for the building? Less land is the correct way to figure this out.
- [10:52]
B
And then if you do renovate it and turn it into a burr by remodeling rent and refinance and repeat and repeat. Money you spent on the additions and forced appreciation.
- [11:04]
A
Yep.
- [11:05]
B
Doesn't really factor into this. You are just saying if you bought the home for 100 grand minus the value of the land, 25,000. You have $75,000 that is workable regardless if you spent another 50 on the remodel. That's a little bit you would.
- [11:19]
A
Depending on what you spent it on.
- [11:21]
B
That's right. So let's say I did the new kitchens, new wiring for the kitchens, all that good stuff.
- [11:26]
A
So that stuff would likely fall into a five year life.
- [11:29]
B
Okay, five year life.
- [11:30]
A
Five year life.
- [11:31]
B
Yeah, that's correct.
- [11:32]
A
Rental. Yep.
- [11:32]
B
Because that speeds it up from 27 and a half. So I'm going to try to simplify this because I'm getting it, I want. It's almost like talking to an accountant. Right. Because it's so detailed.
- [11:42]
A
It is.
- [11:42]
B
But your traditional home gets 27 and a half years of depreciating value. Okay. Minus the land.
- [11:48]
A
Correct.
- [11:48]
B
But that's not very fast for me. I want this stuff faster. So what you're saying is if I go remodel the kitchen on a said property, then I can go take that same level of Depreciation, whatever that value is. Let's call it start 250. There's land value of 50 and we're going to put in 50.
- [12:07]
A
Okay. So bottom line is in that case we're talking about $200,000 depreciable basis. Let's say we're calling it 20% that we can reallocate into a faster life. So that's going to be, call it 40 grand. So 40 grand is going to go into that five year and 15 year life. Now if some of that, a good chunk of that is going to go, let's say towards the kitchen space. And that's going to give you bonus depreciation. If it's a 24 purchase, it's 60% of the 5 year and the 15 year that you get to take immediately.
- [12:38]
B
That's right.
- [12:39]
A
Okay. If you had bought it in 23, it would be 80% bonus. If you had bought it from 17 to, to end of 22, it would be a hundred percent bonus. So bonus depreciation, depending on the year, is either a supercharger for the car guys out there or a turbocharger. So I would say if you're buying it in 24, it's a turbocharger. It, it makes it better, but not as good as a supercharger. So I properties bought back in 17 to 22, 100% bonus. 23 was 80% and so at this point it's 60% in 24. Next year it'll be 40% bonus, meaning anything pulled out of that slow 27 and a half year life, you get to take either 100%, 80%, 60% in the current year and it doesn't matter when you do the cost seg, the year you bought the property is the driver. So, so even though you may have three properties you bought in 22 at 100% bonus eligibility, but you didn't do the cost seg then doesn't matter, you're still going to be able to do them. Now you can go retroactive and file A3115 along with your tax return, which means you get to step back in time, grab the 100% bonus depreciation you could have taken but haven't yet taken, you get to grab it in this tax year.
- [14:04]
B
So you have to amend that tax.
- [14:05]
A
No, you don't have to. That's the whole key.
- [14:07]
B
That's, that's the good news.
- [14:08]
A
3115 is, I'll say, a really nice tool that can be used instead of amending because typically nobody Especially accountants want to amend.
- [14:19]
B
That's right.
- [14:19]
A
And you can only go back by amending to open years, which is typically three years. So if you bought the property back in 15, you'd be out of luck if you had to amend. But you don't have to amend. You use a 3115, which is a complicated form, which is why our Firm always does the 3115s for our clients, so that there are no errors made on it. Because if that eight page form has errors on it, it typically will trigger an audit. So nobody wants that. So our firm always completes the 3115.
- [14:52]
B
The I probably have another 14, 15, 16 homes that I bought in 2020. That 100. I gotta call you on that too. This is my guy. You guys gotta make sure you get the depreciation doctor on Instagram and cost segs.com but so. So I think for people who aren't used to hearing this talk, and I am because me and my accountant go round around. I talk to you plenty and whatever. I want to try to boil this down with simplicity's sake, but in the example we just gave, what does that mean? So you said roughly, out of the 250000 home 50 that going to land. I'm putting 50 grand in. You said roughly, there was $40,000.
- [15:32]
A
That was the original.
- [15:34]
B
Let me on the purchase on the.
- [15:36]
A
Purchase was 250 as opposed to your new spend on the 5th.
- [15:39]
B
That's right. Okay, but when you say $40,000 is going to fit into that five year bonus depreciation model.
- [15:46]
A
Yep.
- [15:47]
B
What does that mean to the consumer? What does that mean to me? So if I bought this deal and you said Justin, I'm going to get you $40,000 of this value and, and give it to you in bonus appreciation, what kind of savings am I getting there? What does that actually tangibly mean?
- [16:00]
A
So what that's going to translate to the, the 40,000, let's say of accelerated depreciation times your tax rate, whatever that is. So let's assume somebody's in a, not maybe the highest tax bracket, but let's.
- [16:14]
B
Say in Florida I'm in the 36% tax.
- [16:17]
A
36. And Florida doesn't have income tax.
- [16:19]
B
That's correct.
- [16:19]
A
Right. So then it would be. You would take the 40k times 36, which would be maybe 12 to $14,000. Ish.
- [16:26]
B
And I'd be able to write it off on my income.
- [16:28]
A
Well, no, the 40K would be a deduction against NOI.
- [16:32]
B
Okay.
- [16:33]
A
Okay. So that so whatever you've got as taxable income or noi, you would sub out the 40.
- [16:39]
B
Yep.
- [16:39]
A
And whatever your tax rate is, that's what it would yield for you. In my head, I'm doing it. Which may not be give or take.
- [16:45]
B
About.
- [16:46]
A
Give or take. 12 to 14,000 is real money. Yeah. And, but then you mentioned, oh, hey, wait a minute, what about the 50k you spent on the, on the new spend? So that's going to fall into the bonus eligibility as well, depending on what you're spending it on. Now, if you're spending it on, let's say a new deck and landscaping and all kinds of other stuff, maybe the landscaping is going to be an expense, but depending on what you're putting in, it might need to be capitalized. So if it's outside of your physical building, so it's from your physical building to the property line and it needs. It's not, let's say, I know in Miami you won't have snow plowing, but you know, those things are just expenses. So not talking about that stuff. So if you put in an irrigation system or you know, planting beds and stuff, typically that would be a capitalized item, but you're going to put it in at 15 years. So whatever you spent to improve the look of the property or fences or.
- [17:47]
B
So that goes to a 15 year versus 27 and a half, correct? Correct.
- [17:51]
A
And it's bonus eligible. So you're getting to grab 60% of that if it's 24 or whenever it was back in the day.
- [17:57]
B
What about a pool?
- [17:57]
A
A pool would typically go into 15 years.
- [17:59]
B
Yeah. Which is still better than 27 and a half. Maybe you're not as excited about five year, but it's better than 27 and a half.
- [18:05]
A
You got it. And keep in mind from 96 when our firm started, I joined the firm in 99. But from 96 to 2017, bonus depreciation never applied to an existing building. Bonus came along in 01, right after 9, 11 as an incentive to get the economy going again. But it only applied to new construction, so it never applied to an existing building. So if you bought an existing building, you would not get bonus. Yeah, from 96 to 2017. But then in 2017, they ended up looking to say, hey, wait a minute, Justin, you're buying buildings. Why would you want to wait 5 or 7 or 15 years? Why don't you grab it now? And so they expanded bonus depreciation under the Tax Cuts and Jobs act to make it eligible. Buying existing buildings. The 5, 715 year stuff got included in bonus.
- [19:00]
B
The one caveat we haven't talked about. If you're a doctor and you do real estate part time, very part time, does that change how you're able to.
- [19:12]
A
Take bonus depreciation depending on how you're doing it and what you're doing, what properties you're buying?
- [19:18]
B
Okay.
- [19:18]
A
Okay, so let's say you've got a doctor, whether it's a dentist, an md, a chiropractor, whomever it might be. I'm going to give kind of two scenarios here and I may pivot to three as I'm walking through this. But if your doctor person is buying investment property like the single families and they're renting them out, then that's called a passive income stream. Okay, he that doctor is not an active real estate professional. So that means that Dr. Is getting the income from the property as what they call passive income. Cost seg creates a passive loss. So the passive loss for that person, that doctor, will only work to offset passive income.
- [20:05]
B
That's right.
- [20:05]
A
Okay, so it won't flow over to his W2 or 1099.
- [20:09]
B
Yep.
- [20:10]
A
Okay, so but that was him buying let's say a single family long term rental, an apartment, a residential rental, as opposed to him buying a short term rental. Okay, so if, if and if that doctor is somehow some way actively involved in the management, in the maintenance and the upkeep, let's say of that property, the short term rental, that short term rental now is not treated like a 27 and a half year, I'll call it apartment, but it's treated like a hotel. So it's going to have a 39 year life. But that doctor is going to get two additional benefits out of it. Anything that they spend on improvements is going to have an another category called qualified improvement property. Quip is what it's referred to as. So for that 15 year property, so they're going to spend stuff, spend money on items within the property, that's short term rental and they get to claim 15 year qualified improvement property, which means they get bonus on that. Whereas residential folks spending new money don't get to claim qip.
- [21:20]
C
Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals like business management, strategic planning and effective communication. And you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella, Eduardo.
- [21:51]
B
So even if there was a long term rental, that was a high price point.
- [21:55]
A
Yep.
- [21:56]
B
Okay.
- [21:56]
A
Yep.
- [21:57]
B
It's called a million dollars.
- [21:58]
A
Okay, great.
- [21:59]
B
And he's a doctor.
- [22:00]
A
Yeah.
- [22:00]
B
He's going to do a long term rental for it.
- [22:02]
A
Yep.
- [22:02]
B
Right. And the cost sag study happens.
- [22:06]
A
Yep.
- [22:07]
B
Does he get any ability to put it put the tax write off towards his doctor income at all based around the performance of that cost seg study being out to outweigh the income monthly? Is there any way that he can. Because the price of the home changes how much the cost study. Does that make sense?
- [22:31]
A
Benefits? Yeah.
- [22:32]
B
Yeah.
- [22:32]
A
So from the scenario you just gave me, my understanding is that that doctor is still going to have passive income.
- [22:42]
B
That's right.
- [22:42]
A
This is still a passive loss. So that in and of itself where you framed it would. He's going to be getting higher rents on that property for a mill versus that's right, 200,000. So any loss that he can't use, the passive loss we create for him would. And he can't use it this year. So let's say his NOI is 100 grand, let's say. So cost comes in and we give him a deduction of, call it 200 grand. Let's say. So now he's got 100 grand of income the first year from the property and the cost, say gives him a $200,000 write off against the NOI. So now he's only going to be taxed on 100. That's right. He wouldn't be taxed the first year on anything. It wiped it out. Correct. He's got 100 grand, what they call loss carry forward.
- [23:30]
B
Yeah.
- [23:30]
A
So he's got that in his back pocket for the next year. So now it wiped out two years of taxable income from that property, which is pretty good. I'll change. Remember I said so I, I got residential property, we got short term rental there. And the third possibility for him might be for that doctor if he's buying a property that he can house his practice in. Okay. So as opposed to renting from Joe Blow down the street, he's now going to buy his own practice building. Now there's a part of the tax code that is called a single economic unit grouping election for the tax code. That's, that's short for a name. Sure, it's insane, but single economic unit grouping election. So what that means is that doctor can say, hey, wait a minute, I, yes, I run my practice, but I also own this building and they should be considered together. And so now the doctor can use the grouping election so that it will be treated as active income. So now he owns the building. He's got his own rental income. He might have other tenants in there. So for the other tenants, maybe we got to carve that off and set that aside as passive income. But, but for his own practice, that grouping election will allow him to use the increased losses against his taxable income as W2 or 1099. So that's a good tool. And it may not be in the science of flipping group, but you might have one of your followers who is a doctor who would be interested in, in that part of the conversation.
- [25:16]
B
Well, and that's, that's why I'm trying to, I'm trying to make this as. Because it's very complex and there's, like you just said, you're, you're citing, you know, the laws of all this. But I want to make it as simple as possible because what everyone needs to understand is if you're buying real estate in any way to keep this is the best thing that you could possibly do, regardless of whether it's 27 and a half years to your one pivot. Because I've gone down this rabbit hole buying a cheap home and you start to just say is the cost of doing the cost seg, dollar for dollar, create the value that actually makes sense for me. And if you're buying a cheap home and it's 80 grand, it probably just doesn't. And just take your 27 and a half years and take it for what it is. And let's go now. What I think you really have highlighted well, which is, and I didn't know this, so we're going to talk after. But like I could go take 15 of those lower price point homes, group them together. I think I said I have 15. Let's say the average price is, you know, 150 grand. So $3 million worth of assets. Now I can give them to you say, hey, let's do one big cost seg on this entire thing. And they're all burrs. I bought them all, I remodeled them all so it would be your traditional stuff. And so that's huge. So I want the listeners to understand as detailed as Jeff can get, really, no matter how you're doing this, I would encourage anyone out there, you need to be buying assets. I love wholesaling, I love fix and flipping, but you need to be buying assets. And then what I would say is if you can get into the multi unit space even better. Right?
- [26:45]
A
Correct.
- [26:45]
B
I mean that's where you really want to play. And I'm going to even use my own examples and you know, because I've told you we bought four apartments, we have a four plex, we have like a bunch of different stuff. What is the benefit to my 16 door apartment versus single family homes packaging my 15 single family homes. Is there a benefit for one roof, 16 doors versus 16 single family homes?
- [27:12]
A
It what you're going to find is that on. So it goes back to that ROI conversation. Somebody might look at one of our proposals and go wow, three to one, I'm thrilled, let's go. But most people want it to be 4 or 5 to 1. When they're starting to look at it like I spend a$, say four or five, then I'm good to go.
- [27:32]
B
Right.
- [27:33]
A
Where you're talking about a bigger property, theoretically with a bigger purchase price, you know, 16 doors versus one door.
- [27:39]
B
Right.
- [27:41]
A
You know, you might be looking at an 8 or a 10 or a 20 to 1.
- [27:45]
B
That's right.
- [27:45]
A
Some of my clients have 150 to 1, some of them are 800 to 1. But those are bigger, obviously much bigger buildings. So I'm not trying to go there. But it just depends on what is the depreciable basis and how, how can we make that work for you guys and, and we'll do everything we can to help your clients.
- [28:07]
B
You know it's funny is so Grant and I, Grant Cardone and I have gotten pretty close and you know, I've always kind of loved the single family space. And he keeps just poking me by poking, he calls me out a lot about it. But I mean it really makes more sense. The bigger you get in this space of real estate, the more you should really be in the commercial side of it. Right. Is there is some level of like brain damage that you don't need to be going through having 15 single family homes, 15 separate tenants with 15 roofs, 15 electricals, 15 H vacs or you have one roof, you have 15 doors, you have you know, 3 ACs versus 15 ACs, etc. Right. There's an argument to be made and the biggest one tends to be right now for me as an income maker, right. Like I do very well, I need your services and it makes a lot more sense to go buy a $3 million apartment than did one by one buy single family homes one after another.
- [29:03]
A
Well, as you, as you call it, possibly brain damage, you know, 15 transactions, 15 leases that might be late Payments, I mean, could. But when you've got one situation going that, that can be better. You mentioned one roof. And what I'll go back to is one of the things that differentiate our firm from many of the other folks out there in the cost space is that we always identify all of the assets in the building, not just the accelerated items. Meaning many folks out there in the space that I'm in would only give you the five year and the 15 year detail. And you would go, yeah, that's cool, that's what I want. Well, what we're doing is giving details on the 27 and a half year stuff as well, so that when that roof fails, maybe you guys have a big storm down here and the roof is just trash. Finally, you spent years patching it, can't do that anymore. It's going in a dumpster. Well, now all of a sudden you're able to, when you put the new roof on, since you have the detail of the original roof, you're able to take a write off or an abandonment loss on that original roof when it hits the dumpster. So that can help you take another bite at the tax apple with a report that's properly completed.
- [30:16]
B
So if you had to give advice. I have a good friend, he's a lawyer, high income earner, and he's playing around the single family space. He keeps buying these single family homes and I love that because I want him to be more in real estate and so I'm not opposed to him. What advice would you give him? High income earner. I mean, he does very well financially and he keeps buying these single family homes, which I encourage him to do because I would rather him be in real estate than not. Sure, but what advice would you give him from your side of the world? Would you say get into apartments, you know, at least start getting five doors or more, start getting at higher price points. Like, what would be your perspective for.
- [30:48]
A
That person if, if to take most.
- [30:52]
B
Advantage of what you offer, Right. To say, hey, I know the laws. Here's how you win by following the rules of the laws.
- [30:59]
A
So, okay, so if, if at all possible for your friend, the attorney person, if that person's, let's say significant other or spouse, were to get in the real estate business themselves and manage all of the leases and manage the properties and, and do everything that was needed to become what they call a real estate professional.
- [31:22]
B
That's right.
- [31:22]
A
Then the whole conversation about passive loss, passive income goes away.
- [31:26]
B
That's right.
- [31:26]
A
And that changes. That changes. And then that attorney who's bought 10 or 15 properties and maybe they're potentially outsourcing property management or something else. But now if that attorney is spending his time or the spouse's time doing the management and they're legitimately called a real estate professional, that would be a big deal.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah.
- [31:48]
A
And that could legitimately be called a game changer for that person.
- [31:54]
B
Yeah, I think that's probably the smartest thing. I mean that's why you suggested it. But now then it does again, it doesn't really manage, it doesn't really matter what he buys because at that point they're a full blown real estate professional. They get the same stuff that I get. They get the rapid depreciation for active income, etc.
- [32:13]
A
You got, I mean that, that could work in typically the attorney could also have that grouping election.
- [32:18]
B
This is actually actual question that I don't know the answer, so I'm gonna ask it. Could the attorney ever be a real estate professional? So if he's buying enough of these, at what point do you say, Well I bought 30 homes, so I'm a professional at this.
- [32:35]
A
There's seven, there's a 750 hour a year requirement for spending time in the space. And it really does have to be your primary business. So if that attorney friend of yours is, you know, making 200 grand a year in being an attorney, but he's making three or four hundred grand a year in real estate that you, you. And again, this would have to be passed through the, his accountant.
- [33:03]
B
Sure.
- [33:03]
A
CPA to make sure that all the other little nuances are met. But then that could be justified, seemingly with the limited information you've given me.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah.
- [33:15]
A
And they could spend their time doing that then. But if he's making 4 million a year as the attorney person and he's making two or 300, that's going to be a bigger stretch to get over that real estate professional designation. Because 4 million a year of income as an attorney and, and it's going to be hard for him to tell the, the IRS, oh, I'm a real estate professional making, you know, 200 grand a year in real estate and 4 million a year in my.
- [33:48]
B
Do you. So I guess like, what about loan brokers, Realtors? Realtors are probably the obvious.
- [33:57]
A
Yes, they can be if they're somehow some way managing real estate. So I, I, my understanding is that a plain old real estate broker that doesn't have any ownership, you know, and doesn't manage their properties and things like that may not per se qualify.
- [34:16]
B
I wonder what they Would, because wouldn't that be a real estate professional?
- [34:18]
A
Well, they typically, it will typically be listed as real estate agent, I think. But again, it depends on the accountant and if they.
- [34:25]
B
And whether they're willing to play the game.
- [34:27]
A
Well, it's not the game, it's within the code. I mean if they're. So if they're buying property. So if it's a real estate agent. So if it's just a real estate agent that's just doing real estate transactions, that's different than a real estate agent who's also an investor who is also managing property which might be, you know, you've got five or seven or 10 properties and that real estate person is managing those and maintaining the leases and negotiating with the, the grass, you know, the landscaping company and the various other services that need to go along. If that person is amassing the 750 hours, then that would probably be okay.
- [35:07]
B
Yeah.
- [35:07]
A
Um, but again, I deal with CPAs and, and the tax code all the time. So I, I've got to kind of stay in the, in the guardrails that, that I know of for sure. Of course, the CPAs we teach all the time and they're.
- [35:24]
B
Do you guys, when you say that, do you teach like is there somewhere. Your website obviously, but in, in your Instagram, can someone be taught more of this? Do you guys have some level of education on this?
- [35:34]
C
At Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more At Capella.
- [35:48]
A
Edu we teach many, many of the. The nation's accounting societies. We teach for them.
- [35:57]
B
Okay.
- [35:57]
A
So we do continuing ed credit for CPGs depending on the state as well, we can do continuing ed credit for real estate folks as a CPE for their real estate license, depending on the state. So we do that all the time and depending on how long you want to go. So for some of the state societies for CPAs, we'll do an eight hour course.
- [36:21]
B
Yeah.
- [36:22]
A
Which is painful.
- [36:23]
B
Yeah.
- [36:23]
A
If you're not a cpa. But if you're a CPA and you really want to drill down on this, we've got eight hours of content.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah.
- [36:30]
A
But then typically we're doing one or two hours and we do them via Zoom or we do them live.
- [36:35]
B
I would even just tell everyone here, as you have question. I'm sure you guys are thinking like reach out to him on Instagram, ask him. He's very easygoing. Right. He's the one that does all my cost seg stuff. And so again, I think that's probably the path of ease for them to reach out to would be Instagram depreciation doctor.com or @depreciation doctor on Instagram. But I think as you guys are sitting here like, what about this? What about this? Maybe I'm not asking the right questions for you. That's okay. Go to Depreciation doctor on Instagram and just start asking Jeff questions. And the question I'll kind of lead with now will be is if you are a W2 employee, there's essentially how I heard it. There's no world that you can get the bonus depreciation in the same way I do as a real estate professional, short term rentals.
- [37:28]
A
So what you just said wasn't exactly correct. Okay, so to clarify, if they're doing.
- [37:34]
B
Short term rentals, 15 year as a.
- [37:36]
A
Short term rental, 15 and 5. So you get the same thing. It's just where is it going to apply? So what you're getting is the ability as a short term rental manager.
- [37:47]
B
Yeah.
- [37:47]
A
You're getting to claim that more against your W2.
- [37:52]
B
Yep. Because you're an actively, actively involved. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
- [37:55]
A
So kind of like that grouping election. Kind of. This isn't exactly correct, but it's kind of like the grouping election for the dentist or the attorney that runs their own practice out of the building they rent or that they own, I should say. But when you're doing short term rental, that could work for them. But a W2 employee, that would be the, the play for the W2 employees to be doing short term rental in. In this scenario where you.
- [38:20]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's what people want to know is how can I take advantage of these laws that were written for me And I love real estate and I'm here listening to Justin every week. And so I want them to know that. And. And again, I may not be asking every question that they have. Right. And I'm kind of doing my best to think this through, but would I again go to, you know, depreciation doctor on Instagram or cost segs.com what, what haven't I asked that maybe you would say people really should also know this.
- [38:45]
A
Well, many times people want to know again, kind of going back to going back. What if I missed it? You know, and that's a big concern for people as I don't want to amend the returns and all of that. Well, you can technically go back to 86 when the tax law changed. No kidding. With the 3115. Now, typically you won't go back that far. The real window of opportunity for people where it makes financial sense, because the accountants will often say, Justin, what are you going to do this for? It's just a timing difference. Yeah, that's what they say. They go, oh, it's just a timing difference. Well, it is a timing difference. But if I give you the opportunity, Justin, to take a deduction today versus 27 and a half or 39 years, would you rather have it today or would you rather wait all day today.
- [39:31]
B
And twice on Sundays?
- [39:32]
A
Exactly. Most people say that and they go, wait a minute, I don't know if I'll be alive in 27 and a half years. Don't know if I'll own the building then. Don't know what the tax code, tax rates are going to be. I'll take it today if I can. And so with that said, it is a timing difference. But if you can redeploy that money, and typically my clients or our clients say they can kind of think of something better to do with it than sending it away in a tax payment, they can redeploy it and improve their portfolio, make it better and stronger and make their financial world better as things go. So that's a kind of a question there is that the accountants often say, well, hey, Justin, you're going to take all your depreciation early and then what are you going to have? Well, we're not taking all of it early. We're taking 15 to 25% early, which means you have 75 to 85% on a go forward base.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah.
- [40:28]
A
So you still have most of your depreciation.
- [40:31]
B
It's just, and the, the point that you're bringing up is so valuable to people at least like me. I can go buy another one.
- [40:37]
A
So that's the, that's the treadmill.
- [40:40]
B
I have multiple businesses, but one of my business has a bookkeeper slash accountant and he always talks about playing for overtime. And that's the treadmill you keep, you keep kicking for overtime. Right. Great. Give it to me today and I'll figure out next year. When next year comes. Let's keep going. As I keep kicking this field goal down the road. Yeah, and, and guys, I mean this is probably my favorite subject because as someone who makes money, you don't necessarily want to pay to the irs. I'm all about being a great citizen, but they wrote these rules for us. Let's just play by the Rules, and it just makes sense. And I know a lot of the billionaires and names will be restricting, but listen, Donald Trump gets a lot of hate about not paying taxes, but all he's doing is playing by the guidelines the IRS gave them.
- [41:22]
A
You're absolutely right. And. And another one, that's a tool that's an adjunct to cost seg. And we don't do ten 31s, but 1031s are a great tool. And that, as you said, kind of kicks the can down the road for the tax on the gain. But the cost seg can apply, apply to the relinquished property, the first leg, as well as the acquired property, if the new acquired property has enough basis in it. So you can kind of potentially do a cost.
- [41:50]
B
That's right.
- [41:50]
A
Both ends. There are some nuances that need to be kind of followed there, but it, it's doable on both sides. So there's lots of good tools out there. You just have to know how they all fit together versus just kind of winging it well.
- [42:05]
B
And that's why I say reach out to Jeff, go to depreciation doctor at depreciation doctor on Instagram. Jeff, depreciation doctor on Facebook, cost segs.com. i mean, he's a world of knowledge. He will answer your questions directly. He does all this for me. So if he's good enough for me, he's good enough for all of you. I appreciate you being here on Science Flipping.
- [42:24]
A
Oh, I'm so glad to be here. And on. On the Depreciation doctor on Instagram, every Thursday is Thor's day. And originally the beginning of th. Thursday was originally in Roman times, Thor's day. So my dog, my German shepherd dog is Thor.
- [42:42]
B
I know.
- [42:43]
A
So, yeah, you've met him. And so Thor, every Thursday or Thursday has some sort of fun little video on my Instagram channel and Facebook and LinkedIn and all that.
- [42:54]
B
Nice.
- [42:54]
A
But Thor will go find depreciation deductions for clients. And yeah, it's kind of a fun play on that. So with that said, just give me one second. So I'm giving you a depreciation Dr. Thor.
- [43:07]
B
Yeah, what's up, Thor? Look at this, Thor. For those I can see in the camera. Give it to all the cameras. Thor, this looks just like your dog.
- [43:16]
A
Well, yes, exactly.
- [43:18]
B
So thank you very much.
- [43:19]
A
Oh, yeah. I thought you might have a little fun with that. And thanks for your time today and allowing me to join you here.
- [43:24]
B
Reach out to Jeff. Appreciate you guys. If you learned at least one thing and you think there's someone you know that needs to learn a little bit about cost, depreciation, not paying taxes, real estate Share this episode with two of your friends. See you guys in the next episode.
- [43:44]
A
Sometimes an identity threat is a ring of professional hackers, and sometimes it's an overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their.
- [43:51]
B
Connection while sending bank details. I need a coffee.
- [43:54]
A
And you need Lifelock. Because your info is in endless places.
- [43:58]
B
It only takes one mistake to expose you to identity theft.
- [44:02]
A
LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second.
- [44:05]
B
If your identity is stolen, we'll fix.
- [44:07]
A
It, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com specialoffer terms apply.
- [44:15]
C
Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication, and you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella Eduardo.