Real Estate Investing for Beginners: From W-2 Engineer to 130 Units | Joey Mack

Summary

The Science of Flipping

Episode: Real Estate Investing for Beginners: From W-2 Engineer to 130 Units | Joey Mack

Host: Justin Colby
Guest: Joey Mack
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Science of Flipping, Justin Colby interviews Joey Mack—a standout member of the REI Live community who transitioned from being a W-2 engineer to a full-time real estate investor with over 130 units under his belt. The conversation offers actionable insights for beginners, focusing on the importance of taking imperfect action, networking, building long-term relationships, and shifting from income generation to wealth building via rental properties. Joey’s journey is a blueprint for anyone seeking to break into real estate with limited capital and experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joey's Origin Story: From Engineer to Investor

• Catalyst: Joey was inspired by Rich Dad, Poor Dad in college, prompting him to rethink his engineer path and seek financial freedom through real estate (02:58).
• First Steps: He invested in training programs (Sean Terry, Justin Colby, Kent Clothier), listened to podcasts, and started taking action with zero prior deal experience (03:40).
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 02:58): “I finished school and I had been—I mean, I bought...the Rich Dad program…and then I started this process, got on podcasts...That's how I started.”
• Imperfect Action: Joey emphasizes jumping in without knowing everything: “I knew nothing as far as doing a deal whatsoever...it's about action and just doing it” (03:58).

2. First Deals: Learning by Doing

• First Deal Mistakes: Used the wrong contract for a pre-foreclosure in Colorado but found guidance through building relationships with buyers (05:13).
• Importance of Relationships: Initial buyer eventually became Joey’s roommate and business partner—relationship-building was as valuable as doing the deal itself (06:31).
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 08:55): “All my best deals have come from consistent follow-up and building a relationship with the seller.”
• First Profit: Made $5,000 gross—more valuable as proof of concept than for the money itself (09:21).

3. Building Momentum: Deals, Networking, and Transitioning Out of W-2

• Networking: Joey hustled through diverse lead flows (Craigslist, MLS, personal connections). He highlights the necessity of intentional networking beyond exchanging business cards (06:41–08:55).
  • Quote (Justin Colby, 07:04): "Not every meeting is a direct connection to a paycheck, but every meeting has potential to be a direct connection to a paycheck."
• Gorilla Marketing: Emphasis on following up and maintaining relationships with leads and fellow investors (16:19).
• Quitting the W-2 Job: In 2025, Joey finally leaves his engineering job (13:22), sharing the challenge and fulfillment of working harder but being happier:
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 13:22): “This year is when I pulled the trigger in April...it was nerve wracking. I think I've put in more hours…but it's more fulfilling. I'm happier.”
  • Benefit: More family time, better work/life integration.

4. Scaling Up: Rentals and Property Management

• Rental Journey: Progressed from buying his first single-family rental to seven doors, then making the leap with a partner to manage 125+ units (19:57).
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 20:08): “We just partnered…on 125 apartment units…It was another one of those networking connections.”
• Role Shift: Does property management as a stake in deals, leveraging systems, hiring maintenance, and planning to scale (22:45).
• Caution on Scaling: Justin advises against spreading too thin and urges building operational depth before adding complexity (21:42–22:34).

5. Lead Generation, Follow-Up, and Mindset

• Bootstrapping Beginnings: Joey started with minimal marketing (about 1,000 mailers/month), then pivoted to no-cost networking and MLS hunting (25:23).
• Follow-Up Strategy: Persistent, long-term relationship-building and systematized follow-up lead to deals that others miss.
  • Fourplex Deal Example: Joey followed up for 3 years before finally landing a lucrative deal when the owner had an event (flood) and was finally ready to sell (28:58–29:53).
• Key Takeaway: Event-driven business—timing is everything, and follow-up is essential:
  • Quote (Justin Colby, 28:00): “The time that you reach out to that homeowner...needs to be at the same time an event is happening and that's it.”
• Mindset and Rejection: Joey likens his resilience to his jiu-jitsu training—showing up consistently and remembering all sellers are just people. He overcame fear of looking foolish by embracing persistence and learning from mistakes (33:53–35:06).
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 35:06): “I just started saying, okay, well, I'll just have the conversation and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.”

6. New Ventures and Looking Ahead

• Systems & Scalability: Joey's focus is shifting from hustling for each deal to building systems so he can scale and delegate effectively (42:09).
• Market Outlook: Both Justin and Joey predict that market shifts (interest rates, balloon payments) will present opportunity for prepared, active investors:
  • Quote (Joey Mack, 44:28): "We're starting to try to shift from just the single family and more...look at the multifamily...I think there's some serious opportunities that are coming for those that are just doing it every day."
• Encouragement for Beginners: Justin and Joey urge listeners to take action, stay consistent, and prioritize “getting in the room”—being around active investors and mentors, such as through the REI Live community (39:37).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Action Over Perfection:
  • Justin Colby (04:09): “There’s a lot of people out there...who continue to be a student, which is great. But if you don’t do anything, then you’re going to be a lifelong student and nothing in your life is actually going to change, right?”
• On Relationships:
  • Joey Mack (08:55): “All my best deals have come from consistent follow up and building a relationship with the seller.”
• On Persistence:
  • Justin Colby (30:05): “If you don’t ask, you won’t receive. There’s just nothing there. You got to put it out there and be willing to get rejected.”
• On Mindset:
  • Joey Mack (35:06): “I just started saying, okay, well, I'll just have the conversation and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.”
• On Systematizing and Scaling:
  • Justin Colby (42:39): “Just make sure you build down before you build up…If everything lands on Joey, there’s just a tipping point where you can’t carry all the water.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:58–04:09 — Joey’s real estate catalyst (Rich Dad, Poor Dad) and first steps
• 05:13–06:41 — First deal mistakes and building relationships
• 08:55–09:42 — Relationships as the foundation of real estate
• 13:22–14:24 — Quitting W-2; challenges and fulfillment of entrepreneurship
• 19:57–20:21 — Transition to rentals and property management; scaling up
• 25:23–26:20 — Low-budget marketing and guerrilla lead generation
• 28:58–29:53 — The 3-year follow-up that landed a fourplex deal
• 33:53–35:06 — Overcoming fear and learning through action
• 42:09–43:19 — Business building, systems, and moving beyond solopreneurship
• 44:28–45:00 — Opportunities ahead in a shifting market

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Conclusion & Final Takeaways

• Take Imperfect Action: Waiting for everything to be perfect keeps you stuck—Joey’s story proves learning happens in the doing.
• Network Intentionally: Long-term relationships are critical. Every meeting is a potential deal source—even years later.
• Follow Up Relentlessly: Many deals require consistent, sometimes years-long follow-up.
• Build for Scale: Once you achieve stability, invest in systems, delegation, and scalability.
• Prepare for Opportunity: The biggest wins go to those who are active, consistent, and ready when the market shifts.

Connect with Joey Mack:

• Facebook: Joey Mack
• Real Estate Page: Mac Buys Real Estate

For resources, coaching, and a supportive community, check out REI Live.

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This engaging episode is a must-listen for real estate newcomers and veterans alike, filled with practical lessons, honest stories, and motivational insights into building a real estate empire from the ground up.

Transcript

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[Justin Colby]

What up? The science of flipping family. I have an incredible guest here. Now this guest I have known for years. He is a part of the REI Live community. He's an active investor now. He's burnt his boats, he's gone all in and he's doing some really cool stuff. And I want to share his story with you guys so that you guys can look at him and as a. As a beacon of hope that you too can create something really special in your business and in your life. Joey Mack, my. My REI LIVE member is here, brother. What's going on?

[Joey Mack]

Hey. Hey, Justin. Glad to be on. Super excited.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah. So by the way, when I say REI Live, when you look it up is REI LIVE co CEO. It is not dot com. So REI Live co go look it up. Check it out. That's where Joey's at. So I know you told me when I invited you to be on this podcast, you said I never told you this, but this was one of my like little boxes. I wanted to check. Being in your world.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah, for sure. I've been wanting to be on your podcast since we've been working together since about 2017.

[Justin Colby]

So isn't that great, dude? Well, you deserve it, bro. You deserve it. And so I want the people to, you know, understand more your story, your origin story, right? Like from the 9 to 5 grind, as an engineer, I will get all the way to real time today, what you're doing and how you're doing it. But let's start a little bit with that origin story so people can kind of take that and look at that about what they're doing and, you know, the moves that they might want to be making. So talk a little bit about that origin story for yourself.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah, so I started it. Rich dad, poor dad. A lot of people, right, they read that book, and that just starts the trajectory. So I was in college, I was going to be an engineer. I read the book, I. I got done and I went, oh, my gosh, I don't want to be an engineer anymore. I got to figure out what this is. And I finished school and I had been. I mean, I bought the. I went to the Rich dad program. I bought their program for whatever their teaser was. And then I started this process, got on podcasts. That's how I started listening to guys like Sean Terry. And then the way I got connected with you was I had bought up one of his programs, and then you and Kent Clothier ended up being the coaches on it. And so I was going through doing the training. I knew nothing as far as doing a deal whatsoever. Didn't know what that looked like. And I started sending out some direct mail in Colorado and got landed a pre foreclosure. And so, I mean, completely no clue what I was doing, but it's about action and just doing it. And so like you always say, I mean, it's not about what you're doing. It's just taking steps every day.

[Justin Colby]

Every day, imperfect action, right? I think there's a lot of people out there, and maybe you were, maybe you weren't. You obviously were not. Ultimately you were not this person. But there's a lot of people out there that, whether it be YouTube or podcasts like this, and they continue to be a student, which is great. But if you don't do anything, then you're going to be a lifelong student and nothing in your life is actually going to change, right? And so if you're sitting here listening to this and, you know, wanting to hear more of Joey's story, the one of the biggest takeaways, if there's only one takeaway, you take Away from this is he actually got off his butt and took action, right? First, starting by buying Sean Terry's course, which led to seeing video and trainings from me, which led to him researching me, which then led him sending direct mail, which led to him not knowing what he's doing, but just like getting on the phone with a homeowner, which again, not knowing he's doing, just contracting the property incorrectly. So I say all that, because what he said without saying it is he did all this stuff incorrectly. But the key is he did the stuff right. So that's. If you take nothing else, guys, learn this part. So keep going, Joy.

[Joey Mack]

So with that first deal, it was a. In Colorado, pre foreclosures, you have to have a special type of contract. And I was just using that blank, you know, one, one page contract that you get when you first start. And so I built a bunch of rapport. I. I got to know the people, they liked me, they. My offer. I had no clue if it was a good offer, but I just threw a number that I thought based on what I knew for the market, as I'd been learning. And it sure enough, it was a good number because I went to a buyer that I had met through Craigslist and I called him and he's like, yeah, I'll. I'll take it. And then they found another offer. And the thing about pre foreclosures in Colorado, if you don't do it right, which is what I had done, you have to give them a certain amount of time. And so they had another offer come in higher than mine. I knew that that number would still work, so I just called them. I said, if I can match that, would you still do this? And they were good with it. And so then the buyer came in, helped me with the right contract and getting it set up, and then made our way to a closing. And that, that built a relationship from there that I started doing some deals with them and kind of pressed on further and, and through.

[Justin Colby]

Now that buyer, did that buyer continue to buy any deals from you or was that more of a one, one and done scenario?

[Joey Mack]

They ended. So it's funny, one of the buy. So they were partners, but one of the buyers and I ended up being roommates At a. At a certain point, we lived together and we're doing some deals together and.

[Justin Colby]

No kidding.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah. So it built some relationships there. And I mean, think. I think besides just effort, that's the other thing that people miss out on in real estate is the, the networking and the relationships and you talked about REI Live. That's a huge piece of I. I'm so directly connected with that because you build relationships and you network and you find ways to make deals and make connections so well.

[Justin Colby]

And that kind of gives me shivers to hear that, dude. Because this is like a life mission for me. I genuinely love it. I know you know that because you're. You're close to me, like, to the point where we now have structured a strategic partnership where we're going to start doing deals together and in the hope is we do a boatload and like, create this incredible thing together. Right. Where again, I preach these people. I don't need to get rich off you, want to get rich with you. That's the phase of life I'm in. And so now that you've been with me so long, we're going to start doing stuff together. But that's because the person you are, right, is you are intentional in creating a relationship. You show up, you do the work, you, you, you know, you're not always doing it right. So for those, again, kind of, I always want to pull those things out that you guys can take from these episodes is like, he's talking about being intentional with the people, the networking. Don't just, like, go to a RIA meeting and exchange a card, like, make the call, invite to coffee, sit down with people, start a relationship. Because one of my first mentors in real estate back in 2006, I believe it was, yes, I'm old, I understand that. But back in 2006, he. He said not every meeting is a direct connection to a paycheck, but every meeting has potential to be a direct connection to a paycheck. So don't underestimate the meetings you're taking and sitting down, you know, you might go meet with Johnny, who you met at a RIA meeting. And like, I don't know why I'm really meeting with him. But you do.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

A year and a half from now, you might come across a deal with Johnny and make a whole bunch of money. And it's because that first meeting a year and a half ago. Right. And so guys and gals, like, be very intentional with this. This is one key way to get actual consistent deal flows by through your network. Right. Realtors, wholesalers, buyers, homeowners asking for referrals. So, like, lean into what he's saying here is really important.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah. People want to work with, and I don't know who said it, people want to work with people that they like and trust. And you can't get that from just a phone call or a letter in the mail. All my best deals have come from consistent follow up and building a relationship with the seller.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah. Now, so that deal gets done where. What's the next chapter? You get the first deal, you kind of dust it off. Like, wow, this actually works. How much did you make on that deal, by the way?

[Joey Mack]

Like, 5,000 bucks. And I mean, as far, that'd be gross, not net.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, but still, I mean, it's five grand more. And even if you made half of that, right? Like, okay, well now what I always tell people is now you have certainty and you have confidence.

[Joey Mack]

Yes.

[Justin Colby]

Like, holy moly, this actually works. This isn't some thing out there that people just sell you. This actually can make you money.

[Joey Mack]

Yep. It was the proof. It was that thing that I went, oh, okay, I can do this. Now how do I do it better and more.

[Justin Colby]

That's right. And so next chapter, what do you close that deal? What's. What's the next year or so? What does that all look like?

[Joey Mack]

I started working with those buyers a bunch more. So that's how we started developing a relationship. They knew that I was good at connecting and talking with people and building relationships. And so, I mean, it was a gorilla hustle from there. I. I think just about every deal came in a different lead flow from there. I had a Craigslist one that came off of it. I had a creative deal where I actually leveraged my credit and bought a deal with somebody and then they just refied me out and basically wholesaled it. Like, that was the way I got my wholesale fee.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, man. And now are you this whole time, are you only doing it in your home market? Because I think everyone needs to know where you're at.

[Joey Mack]

I was still in Colorado at that time. That's Joe. That's the only place I was doing it was in Colorado. It was hard to get smoking deals for me. I found.

[Justin Colby]

Well, it. It's still to this very moment, Joey. Right? Like, think about what you're doing. Who's getting a smoking deal? Right? Like. Like, it's hard. It is just a lot of work. And so even at my place and like, I think one of our members, Hector. HECTOR In. In us, we did a $17,000 deal. Like, these days, that's a nice wholesale deal. Like, that is nice these days, right?

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

And yeah. So smoking deals, like right now, what we're seeing both in REI live and our own business, like, on average, we're somewhere around 10 to 12 G's total. Right. But you know that includes that means there's a lot of five pounders in there, six pounders, seven pounders and then there's a 17. Right. But that's, that's the point is today that it's not not easy to go get a smoking deal.

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[Justin Colby]

You were. You were on the grind. Now when did you quit your job because you started as a W2 employee full. You know this is your side hustle. Yeah. When did you make the decision to quit?

[Joey Mack]

This year is when I we pulled the trigger in April. I I quit my job and it was nerve wracking and I think I've I've put in more hours and more work than when I was working at a job. But it's it's more fulfilling. I'm happier. I mean, it.

[Justin Colby]

It's more time with the kids. We were just talking this morning. You're in bed with the kids, and, you know, it's like, listen, a lot of people will give their life to their job. Like, they will literally work 60 hours a week for a boss. Yep. Meanwhile, people in our space of entrepreneurship, whether it's real estate or not, they just feel like, oh, I'm doing this so I don't have to spend time working. And it's actually the opposite. The reality is, if you want to make a lot more money or if you want to build something special at all, you actually are going to probably put in more work, but you get to do it on your own business. The pride that comes with that and the enjoyment. Like you said, you're happier now than when you were working at your job, and you probably work more. Yeah, that. That is, like, invaluable to be happy.

[Joey Mack]

I wake up and I start working, and I. Before I'm going to bed, I'm working. It just is.

[Justin Colby]

I mean, hey, listen, we're doing this podcast on a Saturday. We're both working. Right. I mean, it doesn't stop. It just. But again, it creates the happiness and the joy and the opportunity to do the things that we really do love. Yeah. So that second year, or, you know, you get your first deal, how many deals do you do within that first year to two years? Like, what does that look like for you?

[Joey Mack]

Every lead source varied, and every deal varied. And I just, like I said, I scrapped whatever deal together I could.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

I was working with those buyers that originally bought from me, and I. I started using them to build that relationship. They were teaching me how to. To run numbers better. They were teaching me about the market and giving me tips on contracts and all sorts of things. And so that just was a huge launching pad further from there as I.

[Justin Colby]

So you were leveraging your buyers in what I believe to be the most brilliant way. You understood their buying parameters, and you started to go look for their type of deals. Right. And that's. This goes back to networking and building relationships. A lot of people in our space, especially at volume, they treat their buyers transactionally. They don't even get to know them. They just take their assignment paperwork. Like, they don't even know the person is what they buy, why they buy. They just know they're buying it. Yep. I believe that to be a massive mistake. I believe understanding, like, you give that buyer a call, hey, awesome that we're Getting this done. What is your real criteria? How are you looking? How do you underwrite construction? Do you look at it where you're going to replace everything or not replace everything? Are you. Are you doing electrical every single time? Are you doing. And understanding those little things and those little nuances can help you become a better acquisition person. So when you're hustling, you're hustling to go find them, the properties that you know they're going to buy. Yes, that's. That's going to be really important. So your W2, you get what, your first year, your first two years, how many deals? I don't know if you'll remember, but how many deals do you think you did in your first year to two?

[Joey Mack]

Probably about seven. And they totally. Yeah. And it was just scraping by whatever I could on any of them. I don't. I don't know if I ever actually made a net profit on them, but they were doing deals and I was getting experience and I was learning as I was going. And then that would have been probably that 2017, 18 until almost 2020.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

And then I took a short break in there and that's when I was more into the W2 job, doing what I was doing. And then we started getting back into it. I got married. Actually, one of those buyers was in my wedding and then. Or not in my wedding, but he was at my wedding. And then we started looking for rental properties, and then that's where I. I had leveraged all the knowledge I had developed. We had connected with you and started doing some trainings with you again. So, I mean, it was kind of a. It wasn't a continual path of you and I being together. But we started back in about 2017 and then in 2020. Ish. Is that. Or would it be about 20?

[Justin Colby]

So Covid hit in 2020, and I think you jumped into one of my, like, challenges or something.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

And you're like, wow, okay, if I really do this strategy, I can get back to it.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

And so I think you even. I think at some point you even. I don't know if you reached out to me directly or something, but, like, you came to me with this concept of I have more interest in building wealth through rentals than being transactional. However, I'm aware I need to be transactional to some extent. But my real bigger passion. And by the way, if you're listening to this, like, that should be all of our bigger passion, like being a transactional real estate investor, wholesaling and fix and flipping that is transactional. You can make a lot of money, but it's not fulfilling and it doesn't create much. Right. And so that should be all of our reasons to be in real estate, is to be able to have that ability to create wealth, generate actual legacy and wealth. And at some point, whenever that day is to be able to let it all go and just sit back and get paid. But you came to me with that. And how's that journey going for you so far?

[Joey Mack]

Oh, man, it's so the. We got you and I have gotten connected multiple times in. In my journey of. Of doing real estate because it was that initial and then there's a time off and then I actually got connected with one of your students. Why am I blanking on his name here? Out of. Out of Denver. We did mobile homes together. So I was doing some mobile home flipping with him.

[Justin Colby]

All right, I'll get back.

[Joey Mack]

John. Broken.

[Justin Colby]

Broken. Oh, yeah, John.

[Joey Mack]

We got connected there again. And I think that's how I first got back to following you specifically. And there was a gap. And then this last time was when we started doing coaching together again.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

I got in. We started doing your challenge, your program. It was about. For me, it's about. Was about knowledge and adding on rentals. And that's where we started going. And we've been with you for the wholesale programs and this REI Live now. Yeah, it's just built the relationship again. Relationships from there, networking from there. I've leveraged your knowledge to build out the rental properties I have so far. So then that fast forwards us to our first rental property. We had started working with you. That's when we got our first rental about the same time.

[Justin Colby]

Nice.

[Joey Mack]

We ran the numbers based off of. Of stuff you told us to look at, right?

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

So I probably wouldn't had any clue. And was it a great deal? Probably not, but it. It's cash flowing, so it's a deal for now. And then we just kept buying rentals from there and have been working with you since.

[Justin Colby]

So now how are rentals? Right. Everyone. Everyone is seduced by having rentals. Right. It's seductive. And you're building wealth in passive money. And so let's talk rentals for a second. What's been your experience? How many do you have now? Four.

[Joey Mack]

I have seven doors.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, I was gonna say like eight doors, but how many roofs?

[Joey Mack]

What is that? Because one of them's a fourplex, so I got four buildings.

[Justin Colby]

Okay.

[Joey Mack]

And then we just partnered because I guess I. I don't know if I mentioned this to you recently, I partnered on 125 apartment units with a group.

[Justin Colby]

Nice. Okay.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

What's your role in that?

[Joey Mack]

All right. So I'm doing the property management for the buildings. So we got involved connect. It's another one of those networking connections with people.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

And so we. You want to get into that story or just kind of the quick.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, the. Just the quick.

[Joey Mack]

So I. I connected with one of the guys that had some buildings because I was looking to see if I could buy them from him. He was having struggles with his property management, which is probably pretty consistent across the board for most people.

[Justin Colby]

Yep.

[Joey Mack]

And so we do it for our own rentals and we're pretty structured and strategic about it. And so he offered up being a business partner to rent, to manage his building. And then they ended up acquiring a building within a week of us agreeing to do that. And so we went from the seven units to about 130 units that we have under management.

[Justin Colby]

That's great. Now are you going to be building a property management company like a true or just. When you get equity, you'll manage it. It's part of your equity. That's your equity earning.

[Joey Mack]

That's our equity earned right now. And so it may lead to a property management company. So it's not the goal right now. The goal is just keep building the. That the portfolio of rentals and leveraging from there. So I mean, if I'm. So Property management company happens. It happens.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah. I would tell you just as a piece of advice for all people out there, like spreading yourself too thin with too many different verticals can be challenging. Right. So making sure you have some level, you know, you guys know my story, but like build down before you build up because you want to make sure you have enough depth to secure what you're doing. Right. If it's all on Joey's shoulders, dude, there's going to be a bandwidth issue, frankly. Right. You know, having 130 doors or whatever you have, like, and you're managing all of it, that is not a simple feat, let alone. You still need to be transactional so you can make income, so you can pay your bills and all these other things. So be aware of it. Right. And be aware of what you're trying to do. Because I think most people in this space get in for I want to get rich or I want to build wealth, but then they get sidetracked with different ways of doing all these different things.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

To get clarity, I would tell you not saying this is bad for you. I'm just saying, like, just make sure you're staying in the path of what's going to keep your momentum going. Right.

[Joey Mack]

And so part of that is building out systems. We've, we've already got maintenance people, we've got cleaners, we've got people that we're looking at to kind of take over the role of daily property management. As of right now, that's, that's pretty much me and my wife.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah.

[Joey Mack]

But we're, we're building that into pushing that to somebody else to where I just manage all the managers or manage people instead of property.

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[Justin Colby]

Well, that's great.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

Now, what is, what does, you know, your life look like right now? What is your main focus? To do deals. And by the way, when you got started to go back to get started, do you have a big marketing budget? Were you throwing five or ten grand a month at marketing or were you just bootstrapping it and just doing whatever it took?

[Joey Mack]

Bootstrap. So when I first started, I maybe was sending out a. A thousand mailers a month, which really isn't very many.

[Justin Colby]

No. So it's a thousand bucks a month. You give or take probably 500 bucks a month, 600 bucks a month.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah. And so it. And that for me, it just, I didn't see the return on it. And maybe it was because I didn't have that volume there. And so that's where I really started doing the, the networking and the guerrilla type marketing. I go through and I do a lot where I look on the MLS and I think the best tip I can give people for that is don't look at as. And I think this is real estate in general. Too many people go, they want instantaneous. One time, I hit you one time with a phone call and they never touch it again. The, the big thing is I put them in my system and I follow them until they either sell or they fall out. And then when they fall out, I call the owner directly. And that's where you're going to get your real leads.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, yeah. And so we talked about this earlier, right? Is anyone who's going. Even, even a realtor. Let's just talk about this like a realtor, which is free. You just making one phone call, them saying, hey, you know, your number is not going to be where it's supposed to be. And, and you go on your next call and don't ever actually keep track of that agent again. This goes back to the theme of this episode. Like it's about the relationship.

[Joey Mack]

Yes.

[Justin Colby]

It's not about that listing. It's not about if you send direct mail and the homeowner calls back, you call them, they're not that interested right now and you just go move on. You don't nurture the relationship and you don't have a constant communication. That's where just the professionals know this side of it. That's why they do deal flow is they know over time this level of communication is going to be the difference between actually getting a deal and not getting a deal. But coming at, coming at it from a people perspective. Versus a deal perspective. Yeah. And so when you are doing deals now and bringing in leads and this kind of stuff and like we have this new joint venture strategy that you and I are going to be doing together. Like what is going to be your sequence with these leads that come in?

[Joey Mack]

I try to, I try to hit them hard when I first get them in probably the first week to two weeks. Calls, texts, bumping them, if I have emails and then from there I just kind of start dripping it. I, I reach out, you know, every two weeks. After about a month or two, I probably reach out every month and then I just try to stay in front of them and.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, I mean, to leave them alone. Right. And listen, guys, you guys all know this. Listening and watching. But we're in an event in timing business. That's what we're in.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

The, the time that you reach out to that home and homeowner agent, whatever the case may be, needs to be at the same time an event is happening and that's it. Yep. And if you drop the ball because you don't have automation reaching out or task yourself to reach out consistently, then you are going to lose that deal to someone else. Because the event that just happened to that homeowner happened right now. And if you don't have another follow up for 30 days because that's how you scheduled it, then someone else is going to call them today or tomorrow or Monday and you're going to miss the deal.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

And that's the important part is again, back to this point, don't be upset because they don't want your deal now. Just follow up with them because when the event happens, they want your deal, they'll take it because they're in that position. Yep.

[Joey Mack]

That's how it was with one of my better deals, that fourplex. I think I was in contact with them for about three years before they finally sold it to me.

[Justin Colby]

Talk us through that three years. There's almost no one on this call, listening or watching this that will stay in a deal for three years. Talk to us about that deal.

[Joey Mack]

I knew them personally and so about every three to four months I'd say, hey, are you getting tired of dealing with tenants and messing around with stuff? And it was always, oh yeah, and you know, and not a big deal. They were good, they were cash flowing. They love that. Every once in a while there'll be a little headache. Right. They had a hoarder, they had to clean out a bunch of trash every time. I'd say, hey, if you're ready. I'll clean out the trash. You just sell it to me and I'll take care of it, you know? And I would. I would even help them. There'd be times when they needed to move some stuff. I was like, hey, yeah, I'll help you move the furniture out. I know they left a bunch of stuff. Is that gorilla? And then one day, bottom unit flooded, and they just. They're like, I'm done. It's you.

[Justin Colby]

That was it.

[Joey Mack]

Yep. They didn't even. We didn't even talk numbers. He told me a number that I was going to buy it for. I knew the number was a deal, and I didn't even. I didn't even haggle. I said, all right, I'll buy it. And that's how we did it.

[Justin Colby]

And so the big takeaway for all of you out there again, there's a couple here, but, like, go rewind and watch this. But one of these things is being when you don't ask for what you want, they don't tell you. Right. So. Meaning you won't give the other person. This goes for all conversations. If I want Joey to sell me his home, and every time I call Joey, I say, what's up, dude? How are the kids? How's the wife? What's going on? Great. All right, bye. And I never, hey, are you ready to sell yet? And I never say that to him. It doesn't give him any opportunity to tell me that he's interested in selling.

[Joey Mack]

Yep.

[Justin Colby]

So the thing is, a lot of people will have a conversation but not ask for the thing they want and. Or not let them know the thing they want. Right. So, like, raising money is a great example of this. People, like, I have such a hard time raising money. You know, my family's not rich. And I'm like, I don't know if I've ever borrowed any money from ever. Like, my family's not rich. They don't sit around, like. But when I make a post on social media or I let people know, like, I'm about to make a post. Real time Today about a Raleigh apartment that is phenomenal. And it's an opportunity for people to invest in. I'm just gonna let them know there's an opportunity. They. They can take me up on the opportunity or not. I don't. I'm not selling them. But if they don't know I have the opportunity. Right. Because we're contracted on this apartment in Raleigh, how are they ever gonna lend me money? How are they ever gonna invest in that Deal if they don't know. So what you did brilliantly, dude, is you kept having come. Hey, you guys ready? You guys ready to get rid of that headache? You guys ready? And you joke, but that means you are going to be top of mind when the basement floods and you go, I'm in. And that's a big takeaway for all of you guys. If you just don't ask or even let people know you have interest in buying an apartment or raising capital or buy whatever the thing is, then the homeowner, the friend, the family member, the call, they don't have an opportunity to fulfill your ask.

[Joey Mack]

Yep.

[Justin Colby]

You're actually harming yourself. And that is what you did so brilliantly there. It might have taken three years. Yeah. But it got you across the finish line. Right.

[Joey Mack]

I know you're a guy of faith, like I am, and it's biblical.

[Justin Colby]

Right.

[Joey Mack]

If you don't ask, you won't receive. There's. There's just nothing there. You got to put it out there and be. Be willing to get rejected.

[Justin Colby]

I think that's.

[Joey Mack]

For me, when I was first starting, that was my hardest thing, and I think it is for a lot of people. Oh, am I going to look stupid? Am I going to give them the wrong number? Am I not going to be able to do a deal with. Make it happen? I know those thoughts ran through my head rampant when I first started. Eventually, you just got to go, I got to ask. Right. And if it's wrong, then that's fine. I'll either make the correction or it's not a deal and we just move on past it.

[Justin Colby]

And what. What got you over that? Right. And you don't have to say, oh, Justin, what you said. And maybe that's the answer, but, like, everyone comes across this wall, everybody. And it's this fear of, like, saying the wrong thing, getting hung up on, being judged, being laughed at, doing it. But really internally, that's them, frankly, because I've done a lot of therapy, personally, that's their own self basically saying, yeah, I'm judging myself. I'm not good enough.

[Joey Mack]

Yep.

[Justin Colby]

Right. Right. And that's what they're scared of, is if I do this, then again, I'm gonna show myself I'm not good enough. Right. I'm not worthy.

[Joey Mack]

Yep.

[Justin Colby]

Which is all right. And that we all know, because as a godly man, yourself, Right. Like, is not even about us. He made us in his image. Right. So we are as perfect as it get. And he forgives us for everything. So who cares? Move on.

[Joey Mack]

Yep.

[Justin Colby]

But let's remove that. Right? Just. But like, what got Joey over These? These, like, I don't know if I'm even going to do this right, but I'm going to make the call. What. What was it?

[Joey Mack]

I think there are two things. So I, I've done Jiu Jitsu for a long time. I have a jiu Jitsu black belt. I'm sure you know that. And so there's just kind of a headstrong. You just got to keep showing up. And that's. It carries over into my real estate is whether I did something wrong or not. I just, I had to show up. It was, it was a requirement to at least just show up and make the task. And so that Jiu jitsu build definitely a mentality for me. So that helped me over time. And then I think the other thing was, is. And I don't know who told it to me, but somebody wants, Somebody said, you know, we're, we're both humans, you know, whether it's, whether it's Donald Trump, the president or billionaire or some other random person, we're still just a human, right? Yeah, we're just people. And so I think we get this conception in our head that these people are better than me or, you know, I, I can't do it because I'm not capable. I've never done it. I've never done my first deal. Well, how are you ever going to do your first deal? You know, you know, you don't just become a billionaire. You don't just become president. You don't just. Any of that. You don't do your first deal until you've done a deal. Everybody has to have a first deal. So I just started saying, okay, well, I'll just make, I'll just have the conversation and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

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[Joey Mack]

What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year? Yep.

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[Justin Colby]

Make them all cheerful.

[Joey Mack]

Do you mean they have all the brands I adore?

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[Joey Mack]

What a ban.

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[Justin Colby]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's so the human part. The. The. That part is, you know, funny enough, I've always been asked from, like, a childhood, like, even my friends, we'd be riding bikes and. And there'd be a group of girls at the park, and I would go up and say, hi, you know, not old enough to, like, I'm 8 years old, 9 years old. But at the age, you know, you get a little shy and whatever. My friends were like, how did you do that? And it was kind of what you said. I'm like, I don't know, what is the. What's the worst they're going to say no? Like, yeah, like, I just didn't have that care. Right. Because I'm only human. I'm saying, hi, girls, what's your name? Right. That's the example I'm giving where that, like, freaks people out. Right. There's a lot of guys today as adults, they. They don't know how to go say hello. And it's as simple as that.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

But it's the mindset of, like, you're just a human being. Like, go say hello and introduce yourself.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

And if you don't, then you again, don't have the opportunity to get the thing you want. So you got to pick and choose. Right. Like this is. Goes back to the it's all hard conversation. Right? All of it is hard. Yeah. So are you going to show up every day, which is really hard? Yeah. Are you going to put in the work, which is really hard. Are you going to mess up and maybe look a little silly, which is really hard? Or are you going to not have what you want ever and be mediocre your entire life and not have anything that is worth anything and have no experiences and just kind of exist on this planet until you die? Yeah, very hard. You just have to choose it. Right. And if, if anyone here can lean into Joey and listen to what he's saying is like he just was brought up with this mentality to show up every day whether he does it great or not. That's everything. It literally will be everything for everyone. Listening to this is what Joey is talking about.

[Joey Mack]

Say, why has it changed for you? I mean, do you, is everything perfect? Do you always decision?

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joey Mack]

There's still mistakes. You just got to show up and fix them and make them happen.

[Justin Colby]

Well, and then it goes into the, the argument of most of the people that might be listening to this at this point are newer. Right. Like they're just breaking in. And that's where I'm hoping they can lean into Joey's story and his experience and lean into that. Right. And if you are newer, go to Reilive co. It is $97 a month. $97 a month is the lowest plan. So like you have nothing to lose to work with me. Joey's there every day. I'm there every day. Reilive Co, we're doing deals every day, five days a week, hands on training.

[Joey Mack]

Where we, you get to ask questions and do deals. If I would have had that in 17, I would have been launched even further already. It's one thing to have a training video, but to have it's live time with you every week.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, just like this. Yeah, just like this. On a zoom.

[Joey Mack]

It's how it gets you in the room. It's a big piece. You gotta get in the room.

[Justin Colby]

Absolutely. So, but this, you know when you ask me is it perfect with me, like when you reach new levels, it's new again. Right. Like when I'm going after what I was going after in 2024 and I put my head down in 2023 and said I'm gonna go do at least 100 million in assets in a three year period, that's what I told Myself. That's what I wrote down. I'm going to go do in 36 months, I'm going to go acquire a hundred million dollars worth assets. Every day of that moment was new for me because it required something new for me because I've never done that before. Yes. Now was it perfect? I think we all know if you've been watching me, absolutely not. Right? There have been a lot of mistakes on that journey and some of them, some pretty darn big mistakes. But if you guys are listening to this episode and watching me on social media, like own up to the mistakes again. We're just human.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah.

[Justin Colby]

I wasn't trying to do something bad. It just the mistake happened. Right. So I hope that encourages all of you guys to take a step back and say, okay, I can get going. Right? I can be Joey Part 2. I can show up every day and, and through that. Joey, wouldn't you say, like by just showing up, you basically would just learn because you were doing it enough and you'd course correct every day. So you fill up the paperwork wrong. Okay, well now I know how to fill it out. Cause I just got it wrong, so now I gotta fill it out the right way. I won't forget that again. Wouldn't you say like just your learning curve by just doing it like drastically increased in speed?

[Joey Mack]

Oh yeah. Since, since we started working back with you again in that 21 2, whenever that timeframe was for this most recent time, it's. It started to go in exponential because before it was just kind of humming along and then I just been consistent enough and I didn't give up to where now I'm starting to see the upward trend. Right. And more and more stuff is changing and it's changing faster and more things are coming onto my plate, more opportunities. I mean the getting in the room is how I got on this podcast.

[Justin Colby]

That's right. So yeah, it's. So what do we, what do we have in store for Joey? What's the Next, let's say 12 months, right? Like what do we see 20, 26 looking like for you? What's going to be your focus and then how are you going to go achieve it?

[Joey Mack]

I would say the shift is to the business building side of things because now we're start. We're at that point where we're making money and we're able to stand on our own two feet, you know, and now it's the putting systems in place, putting people in place to take over some of the roles that I'm doing and spreading My bandwidth too thin. And then adding in the direct marketing and the stuff we're doing with you, where we're, where we're adding more leads and hitting more sellers that are direct to seller.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, yeah. I think as you start to grow, the reminder for all of you out there, but even you, Joey, is just make sure you build down before you build up. Right. Because if everything lands on Joey, there's just a tipping point where you can't carry all the weight, you can't carry all the water and then you're not being efficient and that's where mistakes happen.

[Joey Mack]

Right.

[Justin Colby]

And you're not trying to make the mistake, but you didn't build down first. So make sure that those things are implementable or executable. Right. Whether it's really build out and I don't know what CRM you're using and you know, make sure that there's some level of automation there that pings you every time. Make sure your phone gets the notification. It's not just in a CRM that waits for you to get home. Like these type of things are important.

[Joey Mack]

Yes.

[Justin Colby]

Especially as we're going to start be doing, you know, 50 leads a month that I'm going to be bringing into the relationship that you're going to be banging the phones and you know, let's go get some deals. But yeah, I would encourage you going into this year, really start thinking, you know, we have two months left, we have November and December. How are you going to finish? And then how is it going to start? And start, start that process now. Writing it out like I have a whiteboard here. Writing it out like, what does it look like? Who's it involved? How does it go? What's needed to hit these metrics? Don't wait till next year. Right. Like, don't be the gym owner or the guy that's going to go, I'm going to lose weight. January. Yeah, we all know how that story goes. And dude, first of all, I'm incredibly proud of you. Right. Because it's not a straight line to success. You've stuck in it. You kept showing up and you know, you, you've built some, some wealth in, in some assets and we all know it's not, you know.

[Joey Mack]

Yeah, it's not passive.

[Justin Colby]

Now, now with all that said, are you going to go continue to buy single family assets or are you going to change trajectory when it comes to stuff you own and acquire?

[Joey Mack]

We're starting to try to shift from just the single family and more, more. Look at the multifamily and I think with where interest rates and things are right now and what's kind of shifted within the market for probably where balloon payments are going to start coming in and how the market has softened for a lot of places, I think there's some serious opportunities that are coming for those that are just. They're just doing it every day. Yeah, they're calling people, they're looking, they're. They've got their eyes open and they're trying to find it.

[Justin Colby]

Yep, that's going to happen. This is going to be. Listen, it's not going to happen next week or in January. There's not going to be some catastrophic event. Like, by the way, I don't have a crystal ball, but, yeah, you know, there will be another seismic event at some point in the real estate space. And what I would encourage all of you to do, and Joey and I will be together, rocking it, be ready to take action when those events happen. Yeah, but if you're on the sidelines waiting for them, then you're not going to be ready. Right. That's like, you know, that's why in football, as an example, or you could probably insane jiu jitsu, there's like, you warm up first, right? Like, essentially, football teams have a practice before the game because they got to get their bodies right and stretch it out and start getting physical and hitting each other and like, be ready to play. If you guys are sitting on the sidelines, you're not ready to play. So again, whether it's reilive CO or something, just get going. Because when that moment happens, Joey and I will be running head down, face forward, crushing it, and everyone else is going to be waiting. So I encourage you guys. And by the way, Joey, you're a great dude. Like, I'm sure if people want to reach out to you, they can reach out to you. Where. Where would they go to reach out to you and find you?

[Joey Mack]

So if they just want to find me personally on Facebook, it's just Joey, Mac J O E Y M A C K or my. For my real estate, it's Mac M A C K Buys real estate on Facebook. So.

[Justin Colby]

Yeah, dude. Well, you should definitely be proud of yourself. Your wife, I know, is proud of you and your kids think you're a God. So. And that's all it really matters, right? Yeah, that's it.

[Joey Mack]

That's why I do it.

[Justin Colby]

This is gonna be a fun journey, dude. We are going to be together for a very, very, very long time. So this will be fun for us all. Right dude? Well, I appreciate coming on offering some nuggets here. That is Joey Mack everybody. I am Justin Colby. This is the Science of Flipping podcast and if this has helped, I would love for you to share this with at least two of your friends. We will see you on the next episode. Peace.

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[Walmart Tech Gifts Narrator]

Who Newville were making their list, but some didn't know Walmart has the best brands for their gifts.

[Joey Mack]

What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year? Yep.

[Walmart Tech Gifts Narrator]

Barbie, Tony's, and Lego.

[Justin Colby]

Gifts that will make them all cheap.

[Joey Mack]

Do you mean they have all the brands I adore?

[Walmart Tech Gifts Narrator]

They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple, and more. What about so the who answered questions from friends till they were blue? Each one listened and shouted from Walmart? Who knew? Shop gifts from top brands for everyone.

[Capella University Promoter]

On your list in the Walmart app at Capella University. Learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella Eduardo.