Why Smart Realtors Focus on Wealth, Not Just Commissions | Jon Gafford

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Science of Flipping Episode Title: Why Smart Realtors Focus on Wealth, Not Just Commissions | Jon Gafford
Host: Justin Colby, Bleav
Guest: Jon Gafford
Release Date: January 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Science of Flipping, host Justin Colby welcomes Jon Gafford, a seasoned real estate investor and owner of a vertically integrated brokerage in Las Vegas. The conversation delves deep into the strategies and systems that distinguish successful realtors who prioritize wealth-building over mere commission earnings. Listeners are treated to Gafford's wealth of experience, practical advice, and candid discussions about the evolving real estate landscape.

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Building a Vertically Integrated Real Estate Brokerage

Key Discussion Points:

• Vertical Integration Strategy:
  Jon Gafford emphasizes the importance of owning multiple facets of the real estate transaction process. His brokerage controls mortgage, title, escrow, and other critical services, allowing for streamlined operations and increased profitability.

  "We are a completely vertically integrated company. We own mortgage, we own title, we own escrow, we own everything, anything that touches the transaction, we own."
  (06:14)

• Local vs. National Expansion:
  Gafford shares his experiences with attempting to expand his vertically integrated model nationally. He highlights the logistical challenges and unforeseen complexities that arose, ultimately leading to a strategic pivot back to focusing on the local Las Vegas market.

  "We really got our ass kicked. And we ended up selling off of those JVs, splitting off just because it became a logistical nightmare for us to manage them."
  (07:17)

• Lessons Learned:
  Gafford underscores the lesson that depth of expertise in a focused geographic area can often outweigh the breadth of a national presence. By concentrating efforts locally, his brokerage achieved higher efficiency and better service quality.

  "If we put as much effort as we're putting into these nationwide JVs, into our own local market, we'll crush."
  (08:31)

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Diversification vs. Specialization in Real Estate

Key Discussion Points:

• Dynamic Business Models:
  Gafford advocates for a diversified approach within real estate investing. He warns against becoming a "one-trick pony," especially in a volatile market influenced by fluctuating interest rates and housing prices.

  "You can't become a one trick pony. It's like surfing, dude. You've got to keep your eyes on the horizon for that next wave."
  (02:11)

• Adapting to Market Trends:
  Drawing from his own journey, Gafford illustrates how adapting to changing market conditions—shifting from short sales to REO, then to working with hedge funds—has been pivotal in his sustained success.

  "Whatever happens, I try to put my attention where the market's going."
  (13:58)

• Avoiding Overextension:
  Reflecting on past mistakes, Gafford advises against overextending business resources without confirming market demand. He recounts a failed venture into nutritional supplements as a cautionary tale.

  "The biggest mistake I've made is I didn't bother to ask anybody if they wanted the product before I made it. I just made the product."
  (09:36)

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The Power of Podcasting in Real Estate Networking

Key Discussion Points:

• Networking and Relationship Building:
  Both Colby and Gafford discuss how podcasting serves as a powerful tool for expanding professional networks, building relationships, and establishing credibility within the industry.

  "When people ask me why I do my podcast, the first answer is 100% always to grow my network."
  (03:11)

• Creating Value for Guests and Audience:
  Gafford highlights the mutual benefits of podcasting—guests gain exposure and credibility, while listeners receive valuable insights and connections.

  "If you're not trying to get national guests, like us, but even if you're just in business, you can promote others and build your own brand in the process."
  (04:07)

• Authenticity and Personal Branding:
  Emphasizing the need for authenticity, Gafford shares his belief that being real and transparent fosters trust and long-term relationships.

  "You’ve got to be very real about yourself."
  (03:29)

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Ethical Considerations for Real Estate Agents and Investors

Key Discussion Points:

• Balancing Ethics with Investment Strategies:
  Gafford addresses the ethical dilemmas that can arise when realtors engage in investment activities. He stresses the importance of always acting in the client's best interest to maintain integrity and avoid damaging reputations.

  "If you're a realtor, you have to present all the options and do what's in the best interest of the client."
  (16:15)

• Navigating Licensing and Investment Work:
  The conversation explores the challenges licensed realtors face when engaging in activities like wholesaling, which can conflict with ethical obligations. Gafford underscores the necessity of adhering to ethical guidelines to prevent reputational harm.

  "You've got to be very careful when you have that license of always doing what's in the best interest."
  (19:02)

• Building Trust Through Transparency:
  Sharing real-life scenarios, Gafford illustrates how transparent communication and ethical business practices build trust with clients, leading to long-term success.

  "The worst thing that could ever happen to you is a Google review that says, 'this dude stole grandma's house.'"
  (19:01)

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Future Trends and Strategic Planning in Real Estate

Key Discussion Points:

• Interest Rates as a Market Indicator:
  Gafford predicts that once interest rates stabilize around 5.5%, pent-up demand will be unleashed, increasing inventory and accelerating market activity.

  "When interest rates hit 5.5, all of the pent-up demand is going to spill over."
  (14:04)

• Realtors Transitioning to Investors:
  There's a noticeable shift towards realtors embracing investment strategies, moving beyond traditional commission-based models to build long-term wealth.

  "Realtors are getting smarter about the investment game. They're leaping from commissions to real wealth."
  (15:08)

• Personal Growth and Business Evolution:
  Gafford shares his personal vision of transitioning from selling to primarily buying, aiming to focus his efforts on acquisitions rather than constant sales.

  "I want to get to the point where all I do is buy. Come to me. I'm not here to impress anybody."
  (25:31)

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Notable Quotes

• On Adapting to Market Changes:

  "The real estate industry, overall, the markets fluctuate so much between interest rates and housing prices and demand... you can't become a one trick pony."
  — Jon Gafford (02:11)

• On the Importance of Vertical Integration:

  "We are a completely vertically integrated company. We own mortgage, we own title, we own escrow, we own everything, anything that touches the transaction, we own."
  — Jon Gafford (06:14)

• On Ethical Practices:

  "The worst thing that could ever happen to you is a Google review that says, 'this dude stole grandma's house.'"
  — Jon Gafford (19:01)

• On Networking Through Podcasting:

  "When people ask me why I do my podcast, the first answer is 100% always to grow my network."
  — Jon Gafford (03:11)

• On Future Market Trends:

  "When interest rates hit 5.5, all of the pent-up demand is going to spill over."
  — Jon Gafford (14:04)

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Conclusion

Jon Gafford's conversation with Justin Colby offers a treasure trove of knowledge for real estate professionals aiming to transcend traditional commission-based models. By embracing vertical integration, maintaining ethical standards, and continuously adapting to market trends, Gafford exemplifies the path to building lasting wealth in real estate. Additionally, the strategic use of podcasting as a networking and branding tool underscores the multifaceted approach required for success in today's dynamic market. Aspiring agents and investors can draw invaluable lessons from Gafford's experiences, ensuring they are well-equipped to navigate and thrive in the ever-evolving real estate landscape.

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For more insights on building a millionaire real estate investing business, tune into The Science of Flipping podcast and follow Jon Gafford for continued expertise and advice.

Transcript

[John Gafford]

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[Colby]

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[Unknown]

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[Colby]

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[John Gafford]

Here today is probably not what's going to be there tomorrow. Because the real estate industry, overall, the markets fluctuate so much between interest rates and housing prices and demand and all of those things that go into this crazy thing that we do. Yeah, that you can't become a one trick pony. And it's like surfing, dude. You've got to keep your eyes on the horizon for that next wave. And if you people ask what my secret of success in real estate is, it's that I've always been able to catch the next wave.

[Unknown]

Yep. What is up science of flipping family? I am super fired up because I have a very close friend of mine and he is the man in Las Vegas. Not only is he a real estate investor and a master real estate investor, he owns a brokerage hard money title. He is vertically integrated. If anyone should be on this podcast, it's about damn time. We got John Gafford here.

[John Gafford]

What's up, man? Dude, it is about time. I think we spend more time next to each other on the chart on the podcast charts.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

We actually do in the same room.

[Unknown]

That's right. Isn't that crazy?

[John Gafford]

We do.

[Unknown]

And we've become incredibly close over the last year. And that is the best part of these podcasts, I'm sure you could probably say, is, like, the relationships that get built because of podcasting. Totally unreal. Totally unreal.

[John Gafford]

No, completely. I. I think that, you know, when people ask me why I do my podcast, it's. It's. The first answer is 100% always to grow my network. It's just there's no better reason than when you sit with somebody like this for any amount of time and you talk about their favorite subject, which is themselves.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

It's kind of hard for them not to have some sort of an affinity for you by the time they walk out the door, so. Absolutely.

[Unknown]

And it opens up so many doors. Right, People. So I told you previously, like, people are asking me all the time now because of the level of success, should I do it? And my answer is, hell, yeah.

[John Gafford]

Well, dude, we. We take. I mean, the room you're sitting in right now. Right. This is how serious I am. I am about it. We're sitting in my podcast studio, which is actually in my office.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[John Gafford]

And all of my agents can use this whenever they want. Like, this is. They just book it and they come in. We don't charge them. And I'm trying to encourage as many of them to do this as. As we can, because it's such a great medium to. Even if you're not trying to get, like, national guests like you and I tend to have. But even if you're just in business, is. Is. Let's say you're a realtor. Right. And in your sphere, you've got all of these folks that have, like, small businesses, or you're a lawyer or you're a cpa, whatever, having them on and showing them that you're trying to promote their business and help them.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

Well, now they become very indebted to you, and that law of reciprocity becomes real. And they want to not just use you with. For their next property, but you're also very much so top of mind for anybody in their sphere that might want to do so.

[Unknown]

Absolutely. And then they start thinking about, o. Oh, John Gafford has this at like. And then their friend, their colleague says something. You're top of mind because of this.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Oh, for sure.

[Unknown]

And it brands you. It creates credibility, it creates influence, it creates authority. I mean, I literally, if you are out there listening to this and you want to aspire to get a podcast. You and I are going to say, go do it.

[John Gafford]

Go do it. Yeah. But I mean, I would say the one thing that the number one thing I tell people about podcasting is you've got to be prepared to be very real about yourself. It's funny, I just. Right before you and I are doing this, I just recorded my solo podcast for the week. And when I was done, I turned off. I'm like, should I said that? Because literally I told a story where I woke up this morning. I woke up this morning at 5am and like a fucking panic, right? Like, you wake up and you're just like. Like that. And this in this unbelievable sense of dread that my public Persona had become unlikable was just. I don't know. I don't know where it came from. I opened my eyes with that thought and then I was like, oh, my God. And I was kind of freaked out, but again, so I started thinking like. Like, okay, Brian holiday obstacles away. How am I going to use that for fuel, not for fire? And I'm like, I got to go read it. How to win friends and influence people again. And today, literally on my solar pod, it was like my top five books. You need to be reading right now for success in. In this. In this 2025.

[Unknown]

Yeah, well, dude, I want to go in that, but let's get to real estate real quick, because you are the man. I mean, you have created something basically because you wanted to. You never set out in life knowing your backstory. Right?

[John Gafford]

Is.

[Unknown]

And you have an incredible podcast, by the way, making sure everyone goes and checks out. John Escap Drift. You need to go check out that podcast. Check him out on Instagram. He's unbelievable. Human. Everyone's going to start to follow you and love you. But let's talk about.

[John Gafford]

I hope so, because I woke up this morning thinking I was unlikable.

[Unknown]

That is not correct. That is not correct. So you're a brokerage here. You have the second highest business volume right here in Vegas.

[John Gafford]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And that's in the entire city of Las Vegas.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. So we do. We have about 585 agents that work for us. We do just at 4,000 transactions a year, over $2 billion in volume. We have the highest average sales price, which when you do as many deals as we do, that's incredibly difficult to maintain that. It's because we really lean and focus on into the luxury side of things. We are a completely vertically integrated company. We own mortgage, we own title, we own escrow, we own Everything, anything that touches the transaction, we own.

[Unknown]

Well, so let's talk about that part, right? There's people who are aspiring real estate investors here, aspiring agents, maybe they're licensed. They've never done anything. There's a lot of ways to monetize real estate. Right. And this is why you've become vertically integrated.

[John Gafford]

Well, you know, and I'm. And I'm a walking case study in some of that, which is it's better to go deep than go wide. And like, we got our ass kicked like maybe two years ago because we've already cleaned and get our business. And we're like, oh, this is great. Look how much money. And there's way more money in the auxiliaries than there is in the actual brokerage business. So look at how great we're doing. We should go out and vertically integrate these other businesses across the country.

[Unknown]

Got it.

[John Gafford]

So we went from being very, very good to being very deep here to being very wide. We went out and set up all these joint venture partnerships with other brokerages across the country. I mean, you're talking about Carolinas, Texas, Florida. I mean, El Paso. I mean, just, just really far from here. Yeah, right. Really, really far from where we were. And we brought in some folks that we. That were talented people, but that you literally went from. You gotta understand, it's almost like moving, right. When you look, when you talk about moving, if you move, if you move from one house to the house next door or the house across the country, it's the same. And business is completely the opposite. Because if you have a bit, if you want to open another business upon one down the street that you can drive and share product and, and help each other out. When you open another business across the country, it's its own world. That's its own thing. And it's very difficult in the brick and mortar space to try to support that and trying to go too wide like that. We really got our ass kicked. And we ended up selling off of those JVs, splitting off just because it became a logistical nightmare for us to manage them. And we realized we're like, wait a second. If we put as much effort as we're putting into these nationwide JVs, into our own local market.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[John Gafford]

With this stuff, we'll crush. And it's way easier to run. So we pivoted two years ago into that. We have several JVs here in Las Vegas with other, you know, real estate companies, brokerages that we run their mortgage and their title four. And that's been very successful because it's very easy for us to facilitate that.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You're here and you're saying something that I try to help preach some a victim of this. Right. Any of us visionaries. Victim. Like we are shiny objects. Oh, we can go take on the world. Let's go to all these states. That's us. That's you, that's me. So I have to work. That is something I literally have to work on all the time.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. It's almost like when you're going to send a nasty email and then you delete it. Like Kent.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

From boardroom said, you know, when you leave here, don't go back and throw up all four of your people. Which is what I used to do. I would come back from an event from something and say, okay. And I would literally just be bouncing off ideas. But my staff, because they're great staff that works for me would think, okay, this is what he wants.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

So they would put it in motion and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, okay. I guess we're doing this because now.

[Unknown]

This was an idea and now we're doing it.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, now we're doing it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

And everybody seems jazzed about it when in reality they were just trying to please me. And then we would spin something up that, that just didn't work. And, and not all of our verticals have been. You know, probably one of the biggest things for me in business is mistake. The biggest mistakes that I've made is I didn't bother to ask anybody if they wanted the product before I made it. I just made the product.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[John Gafford]

And then. And then found in some cases didn't have an audience.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

I love when people, you go in their offices and they have like accolades everywhere of all the stuff they've won. You don't really notice it. But if you look around my office, most of the stuff that's in there is miserable disasters. Like there's a bottle of vitamins on my desk. You didn't even notice. It's a hundred thousand dollar bottle of Vitam. Because at one, because at one point my sister's like, we should start a multi level marketing company based on nutritional supplements.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

So we went out and spent a hundred thousand dollars on a warehouse full of nutritional supplements before we asked anybody if they wanted any. And guess what? They did.

[Unknown]

They didn't want them.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. We just lost it. So. And even then you would think I would learn my lesson, but you just get so excited. I think as entrepreneurs we get so in love with our Own ideas that we just want to see them come to fruition.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

And we don't really think beyond does anybody really want this?

[Unknown]

So what advice would you give the aspiring agent or investor? Right. You are both. What I love about what the, you know, yourself, myself, like, we, we are diversified. I call it being dynamic. You don't just do this one thing. And in my space, wholesaling is the thing that everyone leans into because you don't need money and credit, but you should be doing it all. You are on the other side of that. You not only are an investor, we just talked about, you know, the wholesaling space for you and the listings and hard money. You create the entire vertical integration on almost all of it. But what are you going to give the. Either the agent or investor listening this, like, how do they remain focused? Where do they need to put their focus?

[John Gafford]

I think the biggest mistake I think a lot of people make, especially when they find early success, is they say, I found the thing. This is my thing. I'm doing. This is my thing. I'm going to do this thing. If you look at when I first got in the real estate business and moved to Las Vegas was in 2007. Right. The. Right into the teeth of the crash.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

And this was ground central for the crash. Las Vegas. And when I first got here, I started doing short sales because nobody knew how to do them. I found a guy, he was trying to do seminar sales. He was terrible at it. I was good at seminar sales. So I said, hey, man, I went to your seminar on short sales. It sucked. But I tell you what, if you come spend a day with me, I'm not going to. I'm not buying two grand for your. I'm not giving you two grand for your system. But if you come to Vegas and personally teach me everything you know about short sales for half the day, I'll teach you everything I know about seminar sales for the other half.

[Unknown]

There you go.

[John Gafford]

And he showed up and I learned short sales and did that. And then that evolved into reo, which was being a listing agent for the banks. I was Lender processing services number one agent in the country in 2009. But I constantly knew, like, this is too good and it's not going to last. Yeah, it's not going to last. And the guys that I knew that were huge REO agents in town, like a lot of them. That was 2009, it's 2025. They've never done anything else. That business went away. They just went away with it. Right. Like they're just, and you would see them at like 20, 14, 15, like it's coming back, man. It's coming, dude, it's not coming back.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

So the long lesson in that story is understand that what got you here today is probably not what's going to be there tomorrow. Because the real estate industry, overall, the markets fluctuate so much between interest rates and housing prices and demand. All of those things that go into this crazy thing that we do that you can't become a one trick pony. And it's like surfing, dude. You've got to keep your eyes on the horizon for that next wave. And if you people ask what my secret to success in real estate is, it's that I've always been able to catch the next wave. Like I said when I first got here, I built a team and then I, which I still have, and you know, started doing short sales and then that became reo. And then reo, I saw that fizzling down. I saw the market coming and then when the market turned, I got in with the hedge funds and I became a buyer for the funds and bought hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of houses with them. And then I saw that starting to slow down. So I leaned back into luxury and you know, got back into the high price point. And just whatever happens, I, I try to put my attention where the market's going.

[Unknown]

So I was just asked on, on a friend Austin's podcast, what do I see being the next trend? What do I see around the corner? So I'm going to take that same question, give it to you. What do you see being the next trend?

[John Gafford]

So what, what I, what I see, I see 5.5 is the magic number. You can take it to the bank. 55 is the magic number.

[Unknown]

I would agree.

[John Gafford]

And what I mean by that is for those who don't know what I mean by that is when interest rates hit 5 5, which hopefully will happen by the end of this year, that is going to be the number that all of the pent up demand. So you understand the, the buyer demand that's out there is, is in two ca. Is in two buckets. You have people that have been waiting to buy a house, that haven't been able to buy a house. They can't buy a house because there's no inventory or rates are too high. And then you have all the people that are living in a house in a 3% mortgage that would love to be in a different house.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

But they just can't. And when that rate hits 5. 5. That second bucket is going to spill over. It's going to loosen up the inventory and things are going to start moving fast. Do I, you know, today I think we had interest rates were higher than they've been since July. I think was the number that came up today. I'm not really worried about it. But again, you have to understand I'm in Las Vegas. Yeah, I hate to put general generalizations on the real estate market as far as what's going on, what's next. I think what you're going to start to see or what we are seeing as a trend, if I had to say within people that work in the industry is realtors are getting smarter about the investment game. They're getting, by the way.

[Unknown]

About time.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, about time. About time. They're getting smarter. And I think you have guys like you, like Pace Morby that have come out and just done so much in education and people like, wait a second, why am I being driven by commissions instead of, you know, what we try to tell our agents here are the commissions are not the rocket ship. The commissions are the fuel for the rocket ship. Yeah, like you should be using that money to then invest in real estate where the real wealth is made. And I think you're seeing a huge catch up. I mean, you've got our buddy Brandon, now that just joined a bigger company is running an investment thing for them. Brent Tanner, we talked about earlier does that for Keller Williams. And I think you're seeing a lot of the big broker just really lean into, no doubt programs for investing for their agents. I mean, we talked about earlier today. You know, when people hear like this guy's got all this stuff, why does he want to be a wholesaler? I don't want to be a wholesaler, but what I want to do is we're going to start wholesaling property here for one purpose only. Our dispo is going to be 100 to the agents that work at our company as opportunities for them to either flip or borrow those properties for long term wealth.

[Unknown]

Right.

[John Gafford]

That's the only reason we're setting that channel up.

[Unknown]

But it's the so amen to what you're preaching because it's about time realtors really catch up to what the real wealth and income comes from. I will make more money on a brrrr, mind you, not a flip, a burr than the realtor made representing me on the buy.

[John Gafford]

Oh, for sure.

[Unknown]

And then I have the asset and I'm keeping the asset for the wealth side and So I just, I'm excited that you and the Brandons and Brett myself, like, I'm leaning in. I'm going to get my realtor license.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because I just believe you getting a.

[John Gafford]

Real estate license just as things.

[Unknown]

Real estate license. Yes, but.

[John Gafford]

Okay, so here's the only dilemma. And I tell you, this is, this is, this is the dilemma. Right. So if you have a license, wholesale becomes a little tricky.

[Unknown]

Sure.

[John Gafford]

And I'm just going to be honest because especially if you come a realtor, because you're taking an oath to the code of ethics, whatever they say, that you're always going to do what's in the best interest of the client.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[John Gafford]

So it's very difficult to go into somebody's house and you're sitting there, you've. And as a. If you're a realtor, you got to kind of present all the options. You gotta, you gotta say it out there and how we do it. Right. Like, for example, I'll tell you a story. I went to this, this house, this is years ago, but it's rings true today. I got a call, hey, we want to sell our house. Okay, cool. I'll go look at it. So we go over and look at it, and it was these sisters that had inherited a house because her mom died. And they're looking at it and they're like, we just want 140,000. And I'm like, house is worth like 220 as it sits.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

And they're like, we just want 140. And I was like, okay, if we put a little bit of money into it, it'd be worth 300. And they're like, we just want 140. And I was like, okay, why don't we partner? I'll bring the money in, I'll do all the work, I'll do everything. And then 140 will be your baseline and I'll pull my money back out that I put investment and we'll whack everything else up. 50. 50? Yeah, we just want 140. Why? Well, because we have two brothers that are scumbags. And if we don't just close this quick with our 140, they're going to try to move in here, lay claim to it. Okay, fine. So that contract, on that contract that I wrote in the house as me, and I said, well, is it okay with you if I just give you 140? And they're like, yeah, great, fine. So I wrote in the contract, like it was like four paragraphs and it was like, Seller was notified that the house was worth way more than like 220,000. Seller was given the option to joint venture partner with me where I would put all the money in and we would flip it for a profit. Seller declined. I mean, I just, I laid out everything that happened so there was no way they could ever come back and say this. Because if you're in the business of selling houses, and that is, that is your business, not necessarily the whole side, but if you're a real estate agent in the business of buying, selling homes, the worst thing that could ever happen to you is a Google review that says, this dude stole grandma's house.

[Unknown]

Ever.

[John Gafford]

Ever.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

Like, that would. Just, that. That would demolish you. So you've got to be very careful when you have that license of always doing what's in the best interest. And for. You know, I never would have believed it. Right. You know, before when, when things were very separated, when realtors were over here and investors and wholesalers were over here, and there was a hard line between the two, and I'm over in this camp, I would always say, like, you're an idiot if you, if you sell your house. I used to go on and do videos, said if the contract says and. Or assignee and you sign it, you're an idiot. You're just a. You're guaranteed. You're losing money at the. Guaranteed, you're losing money if you do that. And I never would have believed it until I personally went on appointments where people were like, no, I don't. I don't want to deal with any of it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[John Gafford]

I just want to do this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

And I'm like, it's not in your best interest to do this. And yet here we are.

[Unknown]

I mean, that's what we thought. We, we. And it's funny because all these realtors saying, we, we're stealing your business and we're. We should be getting licensed, blah, blah, all this argument. Right? And we service typically different clients. And that's what realtors really kind of don't understand.

[John Gafford]

They're learning it.

[Unknown]

They're learning.

[John Gafford]

They're learning.

[Unknown]

Right. That is the type of client we service. Like, mom died. I'm heartbroken. I want nothing to do with this. This is emotional terrorism for me because I think about my mom. Get. Give me my buck forty and get me the fuck out of the scenario. Right? That's what. That's my kind of seller.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Right.

[Unknown]

And so I think I'm very excited that you and so many others are kind of pouring into this it is actually why I'm getting licensed is because I have a platform for coaching. And like, why am I not coaching realtors on how to be better investors and do it the right way, do it legal. Yeah, but why wouldn't I have that audience to go help them actually just make more money, do more good, create more wealth for themselves and service more clientele. Because most sellers don't want the or most agents don't want the dumpster fire rehab property to list. Right. They're gonna say, hey, can you fix this up? Can. The seller's gonna say, I don't have any money to do that. Agents don't love that.

[John Gafford]

Well, I think too, there's a shift. There's a shift in real estate agents as it is with the NAR settlement and now the buyer broker stuff. And, and like, you've got to actually, you gotta, you gotta have some, some source to you to get those, those contracts signed. There's gotta be some substance to you.

[Unknown]

Sure.

[John Gafford]

You can't just show up and be like, oh, there's seller pays me a cost, I'm free to use. So what do you care? I'm gonna represent my aunt. Now all of a sudden your aunt's like, wait a second, what are you actually going to do for this money? Yeah, because I got to sign the contract says I have to pay you if they don't. Okay, that's a little different.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

So we're seeing. You're seeing the bottom people wash out. You're already kind of seeing that. But also, I think as, as the thin. I would like to say as the herd thins a little bit, you're going to see more people come in that are more about the business of real estate, not about the transactional side of the real estate.

[Unknown]

And that's again, that also is where people should head.

[John Gafford]

Right.

[Unknown]

Go create a business. I think when you're just starting, go make a couple paychecks. Right. Whether you're an agent, you're a wholesaler, you need. Yeah. And people ask me, and I think you would agree, I would tell you, getting your license can only help you, not necessarily hurt you. You have to play by the rules. But listen, at the end of the day, if you're doing shady shit, you shouldn't be doing that.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. It's going to come back to bite you anyway.

[Unknown]

Don't do that. Play by the rules, because that's what good people do. So you think the trajectory of this year's five, and I would tend to agree, and I do believe it'll open up inventory, which is great, because now people say, okay, I can justify leaving my 3% loan. Yes, it's close enough. It's probably not going to get lower. I would make the argument it gets lower in year three with Trump is my gut feeling.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I don't study this shit. I'm not an economist. But, like, I just feel like Trump's biggest win would be to lower the Fed rate to zero in year three.

[John Gafford]

Well, I think. I think a lot of. I think a lot of it as far as what the Fed does is going to depend on inflation, which a lot of that is also going to depend on terrorists. I think. I think it's really going to come down to, is that a big stick that Trump is waving, or is it really going to happen? I think. I think you've already seen Mexico start to make some moves because they don't want it on them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

I think Justin Trudeau stepped down the other day 100% because of that. No doubt. I think that was. That was absolutely it. And by the way, can we have. Fucking wild was Trump's press conference the other day unreal. We're going to have Gulf of America, Greenland. We're buying you and Canada.

[Unknown]

Come on, what is happening?

[John Gafford]

It's like I'm watching this and what. People don't understand all these, because I know some people that are centrist to leftists that were all up in arms and how crazy this was. And I go, this is a master class on negotiating. You just start asking for everything. And if you get a small submit, I mean, how much easier is it going to be now to get some of his agenda passed instead of buying Greenland.

[Unknown]

That's right. Yeah.

[John Gafford]

How much easier is this now? This is going to be.

[Unknown]

Well, guys, I'll put Greenland on hold if you get this thing.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, exactly. Like, I'll let Greenland go.

[Unknown]

Yeah, right. No, it's great. I mean, master negotiation.

[John Gafford]

It's master. He's just negotiating. That's all he's doing. And people are like, it's. It's so funny to watch.

[Unknown]

All right, so what is your next move? What do you see for John Gafford? You and I, you know, personally, I kind of know, but you've done a lot in the real estate space, you've built a lot in the real estate space. Where do you want to see? And I'm going to use four years, because I'm going to say, well, Trump's there, and I don't think he'll go for round two. Yeah, you Might. But what do you see your business real estate trajectory for the next four years?

[John Gafford]

You know, somebody asked me the other day, they said, what. What you. Where do you want to get to? Where's the ultimate goal? And I thought about this a lot, right? Like, where. If I had to describe my life, the. The goal. Where's the goal? Where's the end goal? Where I want to be. And I know. I finally know where it is.

[Unknown]

Oh, I like it.

[John Gafford]

It's this. You ready?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John Gafford]

So I was watching a clip of Robert Hershevic talking about Mark Cuban and Shark Tank when they first got there. And he goes, when I first. When Mark first came to Shark Tank, he showed up wearing a T shirt and jeans. And it was like, mark, what? Dude, you look at this club. You look like a slouch. What are you doing? Like, what are you doing? And he goes. Very quickly, I realized the reason Mark dresses like that is because he can't. He doesn't give a shit. And if you walk into a room and 20 guys have suits on and one guy has a T shirt, fear the dude in the T shirt.

[Unknown]

That's it.

[John Gafford]

Because he doesn't care. But here's. But here's the thing he said. And it was. It was a. It was a blip in that clip. Not so much. No, no. I don't mean I want to wear T shirts every day. That's not what I'm saying. The blip in the clip that I loved was. He goes, everybody is either buying or selling. And everybody is always selling to Mark. Mark is never selling, so he can do whatever he wants. And I thought to myself, I had been selling in one way or another every day of my life since I was probably 10 years old. Yeah, I don't want to sell another thing. I want to get to the point where all I do is buy.

[Unknown]

That's it. I love.

[John Gafford]

Come to me. I'm not. You don't like me. I don't give a. Yeah. I'm not here to impress anybody.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

Don't like anything I'm doing I don't really care I don't need you anymore I'm in my fortress of solitude I could care less I'm here to buy and if. Dance for me, monkey, because I'm done dancing.

[Unknown]

Oh, I love.

[John Gafford]

That's where I'm trying to.

[Unknown]

I love that.

[John Gafford]

That's what I'm trying to get.

[Unknown]

That's what you're trying to get, bro. This was long overdue. Top ranked podcast. Escaping the Drift. About to drop a book. I mean, guys, if you need anything in Vegas, he's not going to give you his phone number. He'll give me the phone number. But this guy is so connected in Vegas. Absolute, man.

[John Gafford]

I told you. So. The reason Colby's even here today. Let me tell his listeners about this. So two other of our friends were here last week, and my Rolodex in Vegas runs pretty deep. It does, but doesn't run, like, all encompassing deep. But like, these guys, everything they wanted to do, right, everything that came out of their mouth, I'd hook up. So it's like, oh, let's go. I. I heard Delilah's good. No problem. Got us an A top at Delilah, which is really hard to get right in front of the stage. No problem. Then it's like, oh, we want to see a show. We went to absent. And then I'm like, like, what do we do after that? Like, I don't know. And I'm thinking to myself, bruno Mars is playing at mgm. I'm like, do you guys, like, Bruno Mars are like, yes. I'm like, I got a hookup at his private club. There's like a. It's like 140 people there. I took him there. And Bruno performs for 100 front of him. And. And Justin's watching all this play out.

[Unknown]

I booked a play that night, real time.

[John Gafford]

He's like, hey, bro. Ah, can we make that happen again? Like. Like, what can we do? What can we do when I'm coming out? Let's go.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. So that's it.

[Unknown]

And we. And we have a good night. We have a great night plan. Tonight's gonna be a good night planned, dude. I'm excited, bro. Tonight's gonna be a good night. But again, everyone make sure to go follow V. John Gafford. He's an incredible businessman, entrepreneur. He was on the Apprentice. Donald Trump show. The Apprentice. Not even. I didn't mention that yet. Right, so he actually does know Senor Presidente.

[John Gafford]

El Presidente.

[Unknown]

And, dude, you're an incredible human. Again, everyone needs to go listen to his podcast. Go follow you and just be a general good human. Reach out to the guy. Thank you for showing up, bro.

[John Gafford]

Of course, man. Anytime.

[Unknown]

Yeah, dude. All right, y'all. If that was good and you liked it and you think someone needs to hear from John or myself, share this with two of your friends. I'd greatly appreciate it. See you on the next episode.