← The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E6: Attila (with Christopher Walken and Sarah Bock)
01:14:06
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- [00:00]
Ben Stiller
This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by State Farm. Learn more@statefarm.com severance like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey, Adam.
- [00:13]
Adam Scott
Yeah?
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Ben Stiller
Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately?
- [00:17]
Adam Scott
I don't know. I think it's.
- [00:18]
Ben Stiller
It's okay. I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian.
- [00:32]
Adam Scott
Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose confluence by Atlassian.
- [00:39]
Ben Stiller
Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and. And deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.
- [01:05]
Adam Scott
So that would equal out, like, if we're playing with, like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah, that's the improvement.
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Ben Stiller
I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.
- [01:16]
Adam Scott
Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.
- [01:21]
Ben Stiller
So why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all set, knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more@atlassian.com confluence that's a T L a S S I-a n.com C o n F L U E N C E Do you still, like, do you still get as excited about working as you did when, like, you were starting out?
- [01:45]
Christopher Walken
You know, in this business, if you do something and it works, chances are you'll be asked to do something like it again. And I find that now that I'm old, when I thought I was going to get grandpa parts, you know, and kids coming to you saying, grandpa, what should we do? And I say, you know, just always do the right thing. You know, always that kind of part. But I'm still being asked to play vampires and. And those guys.
- [02:13]
Ben Stiller
Vampire. Grandpa.
- [02:14]
Christopher Walken
Grandpa. Vampire.
- [02:21]
Ben Stiller
Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.
- [02:22]
Adam Scott
I'm Adam Scott, and this is the.
- [02:24]
Ben Stiller
Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every single episode of Severance.
- [02:30]
Adam Scott
Today we're talking about the sixth episode of season two, Attila, written by Aaron Wagoner and directed by UTA Breschewitz.
- [02:39]
Ben Stiller
And we have a really special guest this episode. We're joined by the legendary Chris Walken, who plays Burt Goodman.
- [02:46]
Adam Scott
Oh, my God.
- [02:47]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Really excited for that. Got a chance to talk to him, and it was, I have to say, a highlight. A highlight of my young career, I bet.
- [02:58]
Adam Scott
Your nascent show business career. I bet it was. What an honor to have him on the show. Good Lord.
- [03:04]
Ben Stiller
It was incredible.
- [03:05]
Adam Scott
After that, Ben and I will unpack the rest of episode six, and we'll also hear from Sarah Bach, who plays Ms. Wong to check in on how things are going on the severed floor.
- [03:15]
Ben Stiller
Who has a real nascent career.
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Adam Scott
She sure does. An actual one.
- [03:18]
Ben Stiller
And an actual future in show business, because she's amazing. And of course, we got Zack Cherry back to predict. So far, he's zero percent right. Anything that he's predicted.
- [03:29]
Adam Scott
Yeah. But in a way, he's been on target, if you know what I mean.
- [03:35]
Ben Stiller
No.
- [03:36]
Adam Scott
Like, if you think about it in a certain way, he's 100% right.
- [03:40]
Ben Stiller
About what?
- [03:41]
Adam Scott
Whatever, man. I guess you don't get it. Okay, here is your spoiler warning. We are talking about everything from episode six of season two, so go watch it before you listen to this podcast.
- [03:53]
Ben Stiller
Yes. Don't worry. The podcast will still be here. We promise. Adam.
- [03:59]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [03:59]
Ben Stiller
Everything all right? How's things going with you, by the way?
- [04:02]
Adam Scott
Everything's good. You know what I just realized is we are at the halfway point of season two, Right? Yeah. How weird is that?
- [04:09]
Ben Stiller
It's weird, and it's been fun. I've enjoyed it very much.
- [04:13]
Adam Scott
Totally.
- [04:14]
Ben Stiller
It's been interesting. You know, these episodes are much more firmly in my frontal cortex or whatever part of my brain that would remember things. So it's kind of like dipping into the more recent past and.
- [04:25]
Adam Scott
Yeah. Much different experience than going through season one, that's for sure.
- [04:28]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But it was great to just now talk to Chris Walken. I actually just came from Chris Walken's house.
- [04:34]
Adam Scott
I'm so jealous. You got to actually go talk to him at his house and talk about this particular episode and his character and stuff.
- [04:41]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, yeah. We got to talk a little bit about the episode and about, you know, how he got involved with severance and also about acting. I got to, like, really nerd out a little bit.
- [04:53]
Adam Scott
Oh, that's great.
- [04:54]
Ben Stiller
I'm happy that I finally, after knowing Chris probably for, like, 35 years in terms of when I first met him, but never really being like, you know, like, I Could never say, like, hey, I'm friends with Chris Walken, having worked together a few times. It was great to be able to kind of feel comfortable enough to ask him some nerdy movie questions about acting. Cause I really, you know, I never say this in front of him. Cause he's just way too humble. But, you know, I think he's one.
- [05:23]
Adam Scott
Of our best actors ever, 100%.
- [05:26]
Ben Stiller
One thing I'll tell you, that he told me, and we didn't get this on tape in the interview. It was like right after we put the microphones away, we were talking still about acting and how sometimes nobody knows what you're thinking as an actor, but they just see you thinking. And that thought is what reads. And the audience kind of fills it in. It makes it feel real because they're actually thinking about something. He said that Bugs Bunny is one of his favorite actors ever. And he was saying this kind of with a twinkle in his eye, but not really. And he said, a lot of times I've played roles as if I was Bugs Bunny, but nobody knew now which character, which movie, we don't know.
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Adam Scott
That is so Christopher Walken.
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Ben Stiller
And he means it. He means it.
- [06:12]
Adam Scott
Yeah. That's why it's so Christopher Walken. He's not like messing around. And the result of that is a fascinating performance, I'm sure.
- [06:21]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was great. But I started off with your question, Adam, about the hair. I said, like, Adam thinks you have awesome hair. And he was like, yeah, hair is important.
- [06:33]
Adam Scott
So cool. Well, let's get to it. Let's listen to it. I'm excited.
- [06:46]
Ben Stiller
Adam Scott wanted me to ask you about. He thinks your hair is awesome. And I think Adam has amazing hair.
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Christopher Walken
Yeah.
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Ben Stiller
Yeah. How. How important is. Is hair for you, acting wise?
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Christopher Walken
Curiously, it's. It's important. And I have no idea why it is.
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Ben Stiller
Right?
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Christopher Walken
Yeah. I remember when I was in high school, there was a girl I was crazy about. I wanted to take it to the prom. It took me weeks to think about it. And I said to her finally, you know, I said, would you go to the prom? And she said, I would go with you. Except I've got this boyfriend. He's an older guy and he's very jealous. This is. I was 15, so it was like mid-50s. And she took out a wallet. You know, these girls had. They had these big wallets with all these pictures in them. She flipped and she showed me this guy who was so unbelievably good looking. He's Zula. And the good looking and And I said, that's not a picture. Your boyfriend. You cut that out of a magazine? It was obvious. I said, yeah, it's this guy. He's singer. I'm crazy. But anyway, it was Elvis.
- [08:03]
Adam Scott
What?
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Christopher Walken
And.
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Ben Stiller
Oh, my God.
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Christopher Walken
And so I. I went and I bought a shirt with a big collar. I combed my hair into a pompadour, and I took her to the. To the dance. So I think that's where the hair thing might have started.
- [08:18]
Ben Stiller
Wow. Wow. And then ever since, you've kind of. Because I remember, like, even when we first started working on the show, you were very specific about your hair, and I totally identified with it because I get crazy about my hair, too.
- [08:32]
Christopher Walken
It's a thing, right?
- [08:33]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Like, you want to feel comfortable, Right. And I remember you were like, just let it. Just let it be what it is.
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Christopher Walken
Also, your hair gives you a silhouette sometimes. You know, you see your shadow. The hair is a big deal. But why that is, I don't know. It's a mystery.
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Ben Stiller
Yeah. Yeah. So I love that you're on the show and that you play Bert. I had dinner with Turturro, and he said, I thought it'd be great if Chris could be Burt when I first met him.
- [09:00]
Christopher Walken
Well, that must be how it started, because in, you know, a situation like Burt and Irving, you need something between the actors. Actors, of course, generate their own energy, but when you put them together, sometimes something else happens. And I had known John for a long time. I'd been in, I think, three of his movies.
- [09:21]
Ben Stiller
He directed you, right?
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Adam Scott
Yeah.
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Christopher Walken
And it was sort of like people like your mom and dad, it's like they find each other funny and interesting and enjoy each other's company. You know, all that stuff that make a relationship. And I feel that way about John. And, you know, even if he gets annoyed at me, I know he feels that way about me.
- [09:43]
Ben Stiller
I think he loves you. I mean, I feel like.
- [09:44]
Christopher Walken
No, we do. We're kind of brothers.
- [09:46]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
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Christopher Walken
And I think when you point the camera at that, the camera sees it.
- [09:50]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And so much of the Burt and Irving relationship in the first season of the show is about sort of that connection that's kind of between the words that's going on the subtext of just the energy between you two.
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Christopher Walken
Yeah. It's that thing that you can see with people. You know, sometimes I meet people, a guy, and maybe I don't even like him. And then his wife walks in, and I can see that she thinks he's funny and terrific and she's crazy. About him. And I. I have to rethink it. I think, well, if she feels that way, he must be okay. And I think people do that with each other. They reinforce and.
- [10:31]
Ben Stiller
Right. And that's interesting. Yeah.
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Christopher Walken
They give each other confidence and they reflect that. You know, if you. If you're looking at it, you can see it. You know, you can look at a. At a good marriage, you know, you can look at a friendship, you know, you just see it.
- [10:47]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. It's interesting to me about acting, too, that you talk about, like, having confidence, but so much of it is also, I think, about vulnerability, too.
- [10:56]
Christopher Walken
Daring to be vulnerable. Yeah.
- [10:59]
Ben Stiller
Daring to be vulnerable.
- [10:59]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. To take. Be able to take that chance and know that, you know, they've. I think of acting sometimes as being like the circus thing, the trapeze, you know, where you flip off the thing, the other guy's going to be there to catch you.
- [11:13]
Ben Stiller
Right.
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Christopher Walken
You know.
- [11:15]
Ben Stiller
Right.
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Christopher Walken
It's looking after each other. Yeah.
- [11:17]
Ben Stiller
Right. And I remember the first day that we worked on the show. It was sort of the first scene between you and Irving, you and Turturro. And I remember being very nervous. Even though I'd known you over the years, I'd never worked with you as a director. Been a fan for a long time. But, you know, for me, my generation growing up watching you in the movies was really very much informed my desire to want to be in movies, watching the kind of stuff you were doing. So I was a little intimidated. I'm curious, like, when you're working with a director, what. What. What are you looking for?
- [11:49]
Christopher Walken
Well, you know, there are certain directors where you know that you're going to be seen at your best. I remember when I was about to make a movie with Steven Spielberg, I was at the Chateau Marmont and I was waiting for the elevator, and a great actor, I won't say who it is, but a great actor was standing there who had worked with Steven Spielberg, and he said, what are you up to? Actors always say to each other, you know, what, are you busy doing something? And I said, yes, I'm about to work with your friend Steven Spielberg. And he said, ah, you're in very good hands. And that was absolutely true. I didn't know Spielberg, but when I was done shooting it, I thought, yeah, that's a perfect description. You know, you get the feeling that you're in very good hands. He looked after you, in a way.
- [12:41]
Ben Stiller
Does that free you up?
- [12:43]
Christopher Walken
Absolutely. You feel you can, you know, if. If it's not right, you'll do another Take. You'll tone it down. You'll do this, you'll do that. If you're very upset and sad, it might be light and funny. Mike Nichols used to talk about naming things. He would say, what are we talking about in the scene?
- [13:03]
Ben Stiller
What's the scene like? What's the scene about?
- [13:05]
Christopher Walken
What are we talking about really? You know, people talk all the time about this and that, but underneath it, there's something going on. And he talked about that. And then he'd say, okay, let's take that and flip it.
- [13:19]
Ben Stiller
So if, like, you and I are in a scene and I'm mad at you, or, like, let's flip it around.
- [13:24]
Christopher Walken
So you're crazy about me suddenly, right?
- [13:27]
Ben Stiller
But I'm still playing the same words in the same text, but it's having a different intention underneath it.
- [13:32]
Christopher Walken
And it led me to the idea that, you know, the audience doesn't have to know what I'm talking about, just so long as they know that I know what I'm talking about. And it's like life, you know, I've met people. They talk. I don't know what they're talking about, but I know that they're absolutely solid, you know?
- [13:51]
Ben Stiller
Right, right. And you can trust.
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Christopher Walken
And you can trust.
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Adam Scott
Yeah.
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Ben Stiller
That they're.
- [13:55]
Christopher Walken
That they know what they're talking about.
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Ben Stiller
And as an actor, that's like a. That's what you want, right? Because most of the time, you know, you're playing a part. You're playing a doctor or a lawyer or something that you're not, but you want people to believe that you are. How do you get yourself to believe that? Because I remember you telling me when we first met a little bit about your process, about how you, like, look at a script and prepare and to, like, really live in it, you know.
- [14:18]
Christopher Walken
It makes me think about severance, you know, whether how severance would apply to an actor. Because what I do at work has mostly to do with what I do in my kitchen. I stand first. As much time as I have in my kitchen at this counter with the script, and I go over it and over it and over it, and you see one day you're reading it, sort of mumbling it to yourself, and something sounds right. It sounds like, you know, if I was talking to somebody, I would believe them.
- [14:53]
Ben Stiller
So you hear. You say it out loud, and you.
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Christopher Walken
Hear it, and then suddenly it sounds like you're telling the truth. And that's it. That's what I'm looking for. But I did that in my kitchen, and then I Try to bring it, you know, to the set.
- [15:08]
Ben Stiller
How does it translate? Like, do you always. Do you get there and you go, oh, I did this better in my kitchen? Or do you.
- [15:13]
Christopher Walken
No, it. It. You found out what you're talking about, Right. Your name. You've named it.
- [15:18]
Ben Stiller
You found it in the kitchen. And so you can take it.
- [15:20]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. You know what it is.
- [15:22]
Ben Stiller
And then I found, watching you work, when we do scenes, every take is a little different.
- [15:27]
Christopher Walken
Sure. And that's another thing to do with. With severance. It's that thing with actors. You know, I've been in the business for such a long time, and there are actors who I've seen in dozens of movies, and I think I know them a little bit. And then suddenly you've got a job and you're working with them, and you meet them and you're on the set with them every day, and it's that same person that you know from all the movies that you saw. But there's a little difference. You know, they're a little bit this or that, or they're a little funnier than you thought they were. They're a little more serious. They're a little more, you know, and it's the same, except it's a little bit different. And I think of that with severance, too.
- [16:14]
Ben Stiller
Definitely.
- [16:15]
Christopher Walken
You know, the guy goes to work and then he goes home. He's the same guy, but he's a little bit.
- [16:20]
Ben Stiller
That's what's interesting, I think, about the show for actors, is that Adam is playing Audi, and any John is playing his Audi, and. But they're the same person, but they're different aspects of themselves.
- [16:31]
Christopher Walken
Yeah.
- [16:32]
Ben Stiller
And the question of how much bleeds through, you know, what are the commonalities between the Innie and the Audi? I think is really kind of fun for actors to explore.
- [16:43]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. And it's the difference between the guy at home and the guy at work.
- [16:50]
Ben Stiller
Right. Do you feel as playing Burt as an actor playing these parts? Because we were talking about, like, what, you know, you're just an actor. Right. But you haven't lived these experiences that you're portraying most of the time. I. Do you think that's valuable for people? I think it's really valuable for people. Even if it's, you know, these ridiculous actors trying to be serious. And it's so easy to make fun of actors. Right, right. But I was telling you that, like, in Deer Hunter, you did this amazing work. Like, do you. Can you take that in and go, okay, Yeah, I was able to help people Experience something even though I didn't experience it.
- [17:24]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. Depends on, you know, they say about certain actors, well, he's always in character. I. I suppose I never felt that I was that way. I. You know, I kind of come home and I leave it at the set, and I come back the next day. I remember I played a part once. I played all these disturbed and. And disturbing people. And I was playing this one guy, and I. And this guy was particularly twisted. And I was sitting in my dressing room in front of the makeup mirror, and I looked up and I saw myself, and I immediately looked away, like a reflex. I didn't want to make eye contact with this guy, and I didn't want to deal with him. I didn't want to be around him. And so I suppose it can so, you know, get into your pores.
- [18:13]
Ben Stiller
You know, actors talk about playing bad characters or evil characters and finding a way to empathize with them or find their humanity. Do you look at it that way?
- [18:24]
Christopher Walken
Yeah, usually I just. I don't take it seriously.
- [18:28]
Ben Stiller
But, like, when, like, doing a movie like Deer Hunter, you take. Like, how do you. How did you approach that?
- [18:33]
Christopher Walken
Well, the Deer Hunter was different. It was the beginning for me. It's one of the first. And there I had this big, beautiful part, and I was in this wonderful. Different locations and with these actors, you know, I was like. It was heaven. I knew that whatever it was that was happening was going to make a big difference in my life. You know how the. Sometimes, you know, like, when you meet your wife or something like that, you know that something's going on. And I remember walking down the street in Bangkok. We were in the middle of shooting, and the rain started to come down like a wall. You know, rain there is different from other places. And it's hot. It's hot rain. And I remember thinking, this is just great. You know, I'm in this thing that's so amazing.
- [19:23]
Ben Stiller
You could appreciate that.
- [19:24]
Christopher Walken
Yeah, you can feel it.
- [19:26]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. The scene for me that I was telling you about earlier is the scene where you're, you know, in the hospital after. And just this moment, there's no dialogue in it. It's a very, you know, where you just. You feel it all. I'm just curious because that moment, to me is like one of the. Those moments for me in movies. Like, how did. How did you approach a scene like that?
- [19:43]
Christopher Walken
Do you remember? It was exactly. To me, like, when I was really little, I don't know, eight years old, I used to go to summer camp, and it was Only a couple of hours away in the Poconos or something. But I felt like I'd been sent to Mars, you know, and that I was never getting back. And I didn't. I didn't like anybody I was with. And it was just the. A nightmare. And I remember clearly that all that came back to me, you know, sitting there on the balcony in Bangkok. It was just like I was 8 years old and I couldn't get home. Wow.
- [20:19]
Ben Stiller
It's amazing to me because I remember going to camp, being homesick, my dad coming up because I was so home and never feeling anything like that. Like I was just so alone.
- [20:31]
Christopher Walken
Oh, absolutely.
- [20:31]
Ben Stiller
And I was like, I was up in Maine. My parents sent me up there. And it's amazing to me because that.
- [20:38]
Christopher Walken
That feeling, summer camp all over again.
- [20:40]
Ben Stiller
Is the pain of that.
- [20:42]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. Why do people send their kids to summer camp?
- [20:47]
Ben Stiller
So that we can have great performances and movies.
- [20:50]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. So you can learn.
- [20:55]
Ben Stiller
Okay, we're going to take a short break, but I'll be back with Christmas Christopher Walken to talk about the dinner scene with Burt Irving and Fields right after this. I was just talking about being sent away to summer camp and dredging up that memory has me reliving that fear of being away from home all over again. It was a monumental time in my life. I missed my parents, I wasn't making friends. And frankly, as a little kid growing up in the city, I was scared of being out there in the Maine wilderness. There are moose, black bears, and venomous snakes out there. But hey, maybe one day that summer camp induced pain will all have been worth it to channel during a performance. Or maybe I'll just have the pain and it's just going to affect me the rest of my life and I'll have to work it out in other ways anyway. Being separated from your parents at summer camp might be scary, but separating from your parents insurance doesn't have to be. When you work with a State Farm agent to get off your parents policy, someone is there to help explain the insurance process and help you choose what fits for you. Whether you prefer in person, over the phone or statefarm.com or through the app, your agent is there to help. So if it's time to get off your parents insurance and into your own and get past your homesickness from 40 years ago, go to statefarm.com severance to find out how State Farm can help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Whether you're a true crime junkie or just getting into it, you're going to love Crime House True Crime Stories, a Crime House original podcast. Every Monday, you'll go on an in depth journey through two of the most notorious true crime cases from that week in history, all connected by a common theme. From notorious serial killers to chilling disappearances and tragic murders, we're bringing you the defining events that shaped true crime both past and present. Crime House True Crime Stories dives into the full stories behind the headlines covering high profile cases like the murder of Gabby Petito, the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart, the Heaven's Gate cult tragedy, and plenty of other cases you may not know, but won't forget. Follow and listen to Crime House True Crime Stories and Odyssey podcast in partnership with Crime House Studios. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. We all know that our credit card numbers can be stolen. But you know what's harder to steal your face with Apple Pay. Your purchases are authenticated by you thanks to Face id. Just double click smile and tap with each tap your card number and your purchases stay secured. Pay the Apple way with your compatible device anywhere. Contactless payment is accepted. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services llc, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer. Bert in the show is like a sweet guy. And you were saying, like, you like to play guys like that, right?
- [24:04]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. And it's also that, you know, what's that? Who said that thing that most men live lives of quiet desperation. When I was a kid, I knew this guy and he worked as a, he had a printing shop. He made menus and business cards and all that. But what he did in his spare time and if you went to this little cramped apartment that he had, he built sets out of cardboard and painted them of Gilbert and Sullivan productions. He was fanatical about it. And he went to, he was always at the matinee of this or that. And I thought, you know, here's a guy who's single. He doesn't have any kids or anybody to take care of but himself. And I thought, why are you in this printing shop? Why aren't you, you know, involved in the theater? Why aren't you doing Gilbert and Sullivan? You know, why aren't you building sets, doing the thing you love? Yeah, I feel about a little bit that way.
- [25:02]
Ben Stiller
You know, he's, he's got these interests, appreciation of art.
- [25:06]
Christopher Walken
Art and paintings and all that.
- [25:08]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [25:09]
Christopher Walken
And he's working this, this tedious.
- [25:12]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [25:13]
Christopher Walken
Existence. When he's got this, you know, he really wants to do something else.
- [25:18]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And I guess that's what the connection with Irving is. Right. We find somebody who.
- [25:22]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [25:23]
Christopher Walken
A kindred spirit.
- [25:24]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. So anybody who's severed on the show, any character has the Audi and the innie. And you got to. In season two, we're talking about episode six in this episode of the podcast, which is the dinner. The dinner with Fields.
- [25:40]
Christopher Walken
Yeah.
- [25:40]
Ben Stiller
And so, like in that dinner scene, you and John are kind of meeting. You've come to see him because he came knocking at your door, and you know that he. His innie, knew your innie. But then you invite him to dinner at your house with your husband, and there's an energy that's there between you and him that is not Burton Irving on the inside, but there's something there.
- [26:04]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. There's also the element of you say to your wife, hello, I'd like you to meet my girlfriend.
- [26:13]
Ben Stiller
Exactly.
- [26:13]
Christopher Walken
Let's have dinner.
- [26:14]
Ben Stiller
Right.
- [26:15]
Christopher Walken
You know, maybe not a good idea. Fields is tending the ham. I hope you like a cumin glaze. Oh, yes, of course. Do you not? No, I do. Attila. Yes. Attila, you just asked about the glaze. I did.
- [26:33]
Ben Stiller
Well, don't.
- [26:34]
Christopher Walken
We've already put it on. I was gonna say we also have corn. Oh, yes.
- [26:41]
Adam Scott
We could feed him a pile of loose corn.
- [26:47]
Ben Stiller
Oh. What your innie ever saw in this philistine is beyond me.
- [26:57]
Christopher Walken
Fields, I presume. Yes. Irving.
- [27:01]
Ben Stiller
Irving. Yes. Welcome back to our home.
- [27:05]
Christopher Walken
Yes. I'm sorry about the last time. I'm sure that felt quite invasive. Nonsense. What's mine's yours.
- [27:18]
Ben Stiller
And you've brought wine. What's so interesting to me in this scene is that the relationship between you and Fields is obviously complicated. And he's. You can tell he's jealous that you guys have a thing on the inside.
- [27:34]
Christopher Walken
Yeah, well, I. I introduce my boyfriend to my husband.
- [27:38]
Ben Stiller
Right.
- [27:38]
Christopher Walken
This is dangerous.
- [27:40]
Ben Stiller
Right. And it's interesting is like, what's the motivation there? Right. Why are you doing that in your relationship with your husband? There's obviously some stuff going on. You. You don't want him to drink as much. We see that he, like. Right. He hits the wine a little bit too much. It was fascinating. Because what it shows me is that even, you know, there's still a connection, no matter what, between these guys, even if you don't know what was happening on the inside between you and John. And that's, you know, to me, kind of the core of the show is this exploration of the two sides of ourself and integrating those. You know, what do we need from each side of ourself? Can you separate yourself from your emotions? You know, can you separate from your. Your past experiences? You know, I talked to a. A veteran who saw the show and really connected with the show because he had experienced ptsd, and he was really fascinated with the idea of severing from memories and how that could possibly help people who have ptsd.
- [28:42]
Christopher Walken
Oh, sure. If we could just move past things sometimes. You know, the stuff that we carry around and stuff that happens to us when we were kids, that got in our way, you know, stuff that we carry. It would be nice to have that ability to just throw it out the window.
- [29:03]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [29:03]
Christopher Walken
And move on.
- [29:05]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. You know, do you need to face that stuff and process it, or can you just cut it off and.
- [29:12]
Christopher Walken
Well, I suppose that's what religions try to do. You know, you go to confession, you get it off your chest, you start a new day.
- [29:21]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. When. When Fields brings up the religion in the dinner and he says that basically you got severed so that they could have a chance at saving your soul. Right.
- [29:31]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. The sermon that day is about severance, which was still very new at the time. And the pastor says, as if he'd.
- [29:39]
Ben Stiller
Been listening to our conversation, he said the church's stance is that innies are complete individuals with souls that can be judged separately from their aati.
- [30:01]
Christopher Walken
So an innie can go to heaven. Master the arty burns.
- [30:10]
Ben Stiller
We're not zealots, I swear, but we.
- [30:14]
Christopher Walken
Figured that if it were true, it may be a way for part of Bert to.
- [30:22]
Ben Stiller
Oh, you know, you basically got severed because you went to hear the pastor speaking about severance. And what we get. The idea is that Burt has done some things on the outside that perhaps we're not on the up and up, the darker side of his personality, and that this severed side of Bert could possibly go to heaven. Yeah.
- [30:44]
Christopher Walken
And to be able to start over again is marvelous.
- [30:47]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [30:48]
Christopher Walken
And to forgive yourself.
- [30:49]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. That's. My dad always used to like Yom Kippur for. In the Jewish religion, because you go there and you atone for your sins and you.
- [30:57]
Christopher Walken
Yeah. Start fresh. You know, you did things that didn't always work out, but then now it's a new day, you move on. And that. That would be terrific.
- [31:08]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [31:09]
Christopher Walken
To be able to. You know, every day is another day.
- [31:11]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. But the reality also, for people with these traumatic memories or.
- [31:15]
Christopher Walken
How can you.
- [31:16]
Ben Stiller
How can you.
- [31:16]
Christopher Walken
You know, some people have stuff that they can't forget.
- [31:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [31:20]
Christopher Walken
And that's torture.
- [31:23]
Ben Stiller
Are you religious at all?
- [31:25]
Christopher Walken
I'm not religious, but I. I do. I am afraid of God, and maybe Bert is, too.
- [31:39]
Ben Stiller
Well, all right, man. This is great. Thank you for doing this.
- [31:43]
Christopher Walken
No, no, it's fun.
- [31:44]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, it's great. Wow.
- [31:52]
Adam Scott
I mean, before we get into recapping the rest of the episode, I just have to say, that was amazing.
- [31:58]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. It was so cool to be able to talk to Chris. I love him so much, and I've been such a fan for so long, so it was. It was really great to talk to him.
- [32:07]
Adam Scott
Unbelievable. Well, well done, Ben. All right, so we have heard what's going on with Bert nerving this episode. Let's talk about what everyone else is up to. We should start with Dylan's innie and Gretchen, who are back together in the visitation suite.
- [32:23]
Ben Stiller
That's right. I sometimes wonder if you're just not happy. I'm sure it's not that. Cause, like, you know, I mean, here with you, I'm super happy. I just, like, want to hear about all my offspring and stare at your face. Sorry, that was weird. No, it was really sweet. I like it. I like this. I wish we could really be together.
- [33:03]
Adam Scott
Like, all the time.
- [33:08]
Ben Stiller
I mean, we are, aren't we? You and him are.
- [33:18]
Christopher Walken
But I'm not.
- [33:22]
Adam Scott
Wow.
- [33:23]
Ben Stiller
Those seagulls in the distance fluttering around. And music. It's really scary, isn't it?
- [33:30]
Adam Scott
It is. Where did the idea for the seagull sound come from?
- [33:34]
Ben Stiller
The seagull sound came from the backdrop that we had painted that's behind them. It's sort of like a Museum of Natural History painted diorama vibe with fake grass. Like, tall grass. And in the background, you see there's a seagull. So we thought, why not? You know, lumen would be going for the full experience.
- [33:56]
Adam Scott
Sure. It's such a relaxing, soothing sound. I get it.
- [34:00]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. It's the old security room, and they totally just. They just gave it a facelift. You know, I think that's one of the really fun, ominous, weird things in season two is that sort of the revamping of the old, scary rooms into nice, warm, happy places, supposedly.
- [34:19]
Adam Scott
Yeah. It's just so great seeing Dylan so happy and talking about his feelings and experiencing them experiencing love for the first time. But also, Merritt is so wonderful. And, like, when they go in for the hug, he wants. Asks for a hug, and you see her kind of take this moment right before their hug where she's going through her own experience of, this is so weird, but so sweet and getting to sort of Start over with her husband and still having these feelings. There's so much going on here. It's just kind of fascinating to watch.
- [34:55]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Well, the whole episode is very much about the relationships. The relationship between Gretchen and Dylan, Mark and Helly, Burt and Irving. I think if there was a theme for this episode, it would be people connecting. I'm not gonna say hooking up, but there is. You know, there's a lot of romanticness happening in this episode.
- [35:17]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [35:18]
Ben Stiller
And I think it was actually really fun to have an episode like that where really focused on these core relationships. And the Dylan and Gretchen storyline is just such a uniquely severance type of. Because you can't do that, really, in any other show. And I think that's when we're looking at the story. We're always looking at what are situations that you could only do with this setup. And I think the idea of Dylan and Gretchen having basically kind of an affair on his Audi.
- [35:50]
Adam Scott
I was gonna ask, is it an affair? Is that what this is?
- [35:54]
Ben Stiller
To me, that's what it feels like. It's almost like. It's like she's going to visit a guy in prison and she's having conjugal visits or something with. I mean, they're not sleeping together, but it's sort of this. I mean, it is very prison. Like, even in episode three, you know, when she first comes in, she's got, like, the little clear plastic pouch that they give her, which is a thing they do in prison, so that, you know, they can see through what you're bringing in and out. And I think that's what I think is so interesting about this storyline is that it seems like they're really developing a bond. And then we immediately go afterwards to Audi, Dillon at home, and she's not telling him what's going on.
- [36:34]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Ben Stiller
And she's. She's wrestling with it.
- [36:36]
Adam Scott
You know, she's keeping it from him.
- [36:37]
Ben Stiller
But she's really attracted to this version of Dylan. That is, the less, you know, he doesn't have the weight of the world on him. He doesn't have all the outside problems that are definitely affecting their relationship.
- [36:49]
Adam Scott
Yeah. And the most important thing in the world to him is her. He is just smitten and is completely in love with her. You know, you can see Merritt's performance, just how good that feels. And there's just so much going on there.
- [37:08]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And for Dylan, it's great because Dylan is finally realizing there's a world beyond perks and there's a world beyond finger traps and caricatures and it's really the extension of what was started at the end of season one when he says, I want to know my kids. And this is him getting really, in a manipulative way by Milchick, who has decided to let him have this as a way of, I think, somehow dividing him from the others, keeping this secret. And that's working too, by the way, which we saw play out in episode five. And the tension between Mark and Dylan. And he's not sharing this with them, but personally for him, he's literally falling in love and he's understanding what a human relationship is.
- [37:52]
Adam Scott
Yeah. Oh. Dylan's been compromised since episode one. Milchick really got in there right away and knew that this would work.
- [37:59]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. But yet I'm also kind of happy for Dylan that he's feeling this, you know, and it's. And to see Zach sort of embody him growing as a person is really cool.
- [38:09]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [38:09]
Ben Stiller
And then, like, meanwhile, you know, Mark and Helly are, you know, working out their stuff. I think Mark's been trying to reconcile how he feels about the fact that he slept with Helena. But also, you tell her. Right?
- [38:24]
Adam Scott
Yeah. I think we should talk about that scene.
- [38:25]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He threatened you.
- [38:28]
Adam Scott
As I was leaving in the elevator.
- [38:30]
Ben Stiller
They're trying to intimidate us, divide us.
- [38:33]
Adam Scott
And also so that we won't work.
- [38:35]
D
Together, because they know what will happen if we do.
- [38:37]
Ben Stiller
I'm gonna go get that map.
- [38:38]
Adam Scott
Helly, we shared vessels.
- [38:41]
Ben Stiller
What's that?
- [38:44]
Adam Scott
Well, we had sex.
- [38:50]
Ben Stiller
Okay.
- [38:51]
D
Okay.
- [38:53]
Ben Stiller
You in, like.
- [38:57]
D
Like in a wellness session?
- [39:00]
Adam Scott
No, not Ms. Casey. It was at the retreat in your tent. Oh, now?
- [39:19]
Ben Stiller
Oh.
- [39:22]
Christopher Walken
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Adam Scott
Miltrick sort of forces Mark's hand there with the threat in the elevator. If he's going to use that as a threat, then Marc disfigures. He should just. He should tell her anyway. It's the right thing to do. But Miljik seems to assume that he's going to want to keep it from her. So for that reason and others in the bathroom stall, he tells her that they. That they shared vessels.
- [39:46]
Ben Stiller
I also like how UTA shot that scene in the stall. In the bathroom stall. You know, there are so few spaces that we haven't shot in mdr because it's just basically that room, the kitchenette and the bathroom. And we've explored a lot of different ways to shoot things, and even in the bathroom, but she figured out a blocking with U2 and a way of shooting that in the stall that I thought was really elegant. And actually, it's one of My favorite looking scenes in the show.
- [40:15]
Adam Scott
I love it too. And I love how isolated Helly looks and feels.
- [40:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [40:19]
Adam Scott
And you can see physically Brit, once she actually gets that information, sort of backing up, even though there's nowhere to go. It's such a violation.
- [40:30]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And I think that was. UTA as a director, is really great with actors. And I think really looking at that scene from Helly's perspective of how to process that and the moments afterwards where she's kind of walking the halls and thinking about it and churning it in her head and comes to terms with what she feels. And I thought Brit did an amazing job with that too, in terms of just internally seeing that. And then editorially, the way that we're sort of. We start to intercut Gretchen and Dylan coming together as Dylan asks for a hug from her. And we start to feel that there's more between the two of them. And as they start to come in and really have physical contact at the same time, Helly's there thinking about her first kiss with Mark in season one. And as that's happening and as they're finally getting to the point where they connect, something goes off for Heli in her head where she realizes, hey, you know what? Helena had this, but I want it, because that's how I feel about you.
- [41:31]
Adam Scott
Look, I am so sorry. I can't even imagine what it must be like to.
- [41:36]
Ben Stiller
You thought it was me.
- [41:39]
Adam Scott
100%, which.
- [41:40]
Ben Stiller
Means you wanted to with me.
- [41:45]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [41:48]
D
What sucks is that she got to.
- [41:50]
Ben Stiller
Have that and I didn't. That she used me to track my.
- [41:56]
D
Friends, used my body to get close to you. That she dresses me in the morning like I'm a baby.
- [42:03]
Ben Stiller
That she controls me and this company and all of us.
- [42:06]
D
It's disgusting.
- [42:13]
Ben Stiller
Do.
- [42:14]
Adam Scott
Do you want me to, like, describe what happened? Like, I feel like you have every right.
- [42:20]
Ben Stiller
No, no, no. I don't want her memory. I want my own. Would you like that?
- [42:34]
Adam Scott
I love that. I thought that was such a cool. I remember reading that scene and being like, yeah, that's such a place of strength for her.
- [42:41]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And that was something we talked a lot about with Bo Williman when he came in working on our season.
- [42:47]
Adam Scott
Yeah. Beau is one of our writers and executive producers for season two.
- [42:52]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And I remember that was a thought that came from him that was really a logical thought and a very emotionally grounded idea for, you know, when you're thinking about how did these characters react to one another besides the mystery element of the show or the weirdness element of the show or Any of that stuff. At the core, it's about these characters who we're trying to be with and track and believe. And it was his thought that, you know, she would want to have that for herself. That I think, really makes that scene so special, because it's surprising. And I think maybe as a viewer, I'm thinking. I thought about this when we were putting it together. It's like, wow, this might. I hope this works for people, because it seems unexpected to me that we would have had Mark and Helena sleep together in episode four and then Helly and Mark sleep together in episode six.
- [43:45]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [43:45]
Ben Stiller
And that might not be expected. And all of a sudden people are getting together a lot more. But for me, it felt very organic in that this would be what Helle would want. And these two people do have these feelings for each other. And the fact that she knows that she had that connection with him and she really wanted that was something that felt okay. Yeah. That's like kind of like unexpected to see, but yet totally believable to me.
- [44:11]
Adam Scott
Yeah. Because she and Mark were falling in love with each other, and Helena decided to interrupt that and take it for her. Steal it.
- [44:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [44:19]
Adam Scott
And yes, Beau really was instrumental and really great with Mark and Helly's stuff and sort of from that clearing of the decks in episode four, really terrific with figuring out a way to get this relationship back on track and the direction to push it in.
- [44:37]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And it's also something, you know, you talk about, like season two and doing things we hadn't done before. It was ground that I was very trepidatious about stepping on in terms of we're going to a place we hadn't seen on the show before. Characters sleeping together and not wanting to do the cliche version of that or the, you know, the bad version of it, but yet also not be afraid to follow that line, because it's a natural progression, but it's also something we'd never really done before.
- [45:10]
Adam Scott
That's right. And it was really important to Britt and I, along with you and UTA and our NMC coordinator, to come up with these two different love scenes with the two of the same people and make them very different. And they are very different, but they're both really beautiful in their own way.
- [45:33]
Ben Stiller
You know, we had shot episode four already, so when UTA approached the episode six love scene, she was able to look at what we had done, and she came up with her own language for that, which is also, I think, one of the most elegant scenes in the show. The way that she Filmed that between the two of you and the realness and the closeness and the beauty through the sort of the tent that you make for yourselves out of the plastic tarps that are over the unused carols and desks in there. And it's really beautiful. I do have to bring up, as we're talking about it, that the love scene in episode four, what happened? I think I should. Is it okay to talk about that?
- [46:14]
Adam Scott
Yeah. The floor is yours.
- [46:18]
Ben Stiller
So I was directing the love scene in the tent in episode four, and Jessica, our cinematographer, said to me, I think maybe you should operate the camera for this scene because it's gonna be very intimate and close, and you're gonna know what you want. And, you know, it's gonna be handheld, so you should get in there and kind of do it that way for the actors. And what did you think?
- [46:39]
Adam Scott
I was really. When you kind of told us it's just going to be the three of us in there, it was a relief because love scenes are always awkward. But that made it just easier and just less to worry about, you know?
- [46:55]
Ben Stiller
Right. At least that's what you thought.
- [46:57]
Adam Scott
Cause, yeah, that's right.
- [46:58]
Ben Stiller
I get in there with the camera, and so it's a tent, and the tent is. We had it on a stage on the soundstage. We're in the tent. And the tent has an air mattress, Right? The set has an air mattress that you guys are on.
- [47:12]
Adam Scott
That's right.
- [47:12]
Ben Stiller
That's part of the set is like, you know, that the tents had, like, lumen air mattresses. So I don't know if you've ever stepped on an air mattress, but they're hard to get your. It's hard to get your balance on. Are they? Well, when you're holding a camera, a heavy camera, and you're not a professional camera operator, it is so we, you know, closed set, quiet, intimacy coordinator. Everybody's doing everything right, and it's very, you know, very, very intense and quiet. And it's like, okay, you know, roll camera. And I go in there with the camera, and you guys are there on the mattress. And it's just the light from the heater, and it's really beautiful. The shot's beautiful. And I'm standing there, and I'm like, now I'm, like, starting. You guys are starting to do it. And I'm starting to move around, trying to be motivated by what I'm seeing in the scene. And then I want to go in closer. And I go in closer, and I'm stepping forward, and I step on the air mattress. And I literally fall on top of the two of you with my camera.
- [48:15]
Adam Scott
To paint the picture a little bit. I was laying down and Britt was on top of me at this point, and suddenly she just like falls right on top of me. And Ben is on top of her just like, oh, oh geez. And the three of us are like in a pile suddenly.
- [48:40]
Ben Stiller
It was so ridiculous. And here I am trying to be like Mr. Cool Director Guy and I've just become like Klutzy Ben falling on top of two actors. It was so embarrassing.
- [48:53]
Adam Scott
Honestly, it felt like something from a Ben Stiller movie.
- [48:56]
Ben Stiller
That's what I'm saying. I can't escape my Ben Stiller ness even when I try.
- [49:01]
Adam Scott
Your character is a cinematographer and it's a romantic comedy.
- [49:05]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, that's not Bendo. It's the.
- [49:08]
Adam Scott
Yeah, we have to come up with a new name for this guy.
- [49:11]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, Klutzo. Klutzo the cameraman.
- [49:14]
Adam Scott
It was so funny.
- [49:16]
Ben Stiller
And I did not, did not operate anymore for the rest of the shoot. All right, we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. The MDR team continues to search for answers as they try to piece together memories from the open overtime contingency. But luckily you don't have to take a mind erasing elevator to work every day. So your workplace productivity can be much simpler. With Confluence by Atlassian. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before. Where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI is streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. So goodbye severed workplace alienation. Hello teamwork with Confluence. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more@atlassian.com confluence that's a T L a L s s I a-n.com c o n F L U E N C E Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro.
- [51:06]
D
Rate first three months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [51:25]
Ben Stiller
Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.
- [51:39]
Adam Scott
The place to be. To be.
- [51:44]
Ben Stiller
That coming together of Mark and Helly is so satisfying to see that you guys are back on track with each other and connected. And, you know, at the same time, we're also then going to the outside world and we have the first time where you ever start to lose time and kind of literally fritz out, where you find yourself back in the basement when you literally were just at Lumen.
- [52:08]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [52:09]
Ben Stiller
Which is like the first sign of reintegration, really starting to maybe go kick in more or go awry or just be out of your control. You sort of flip out on Regatti and you're also getting hungry, which is a side effect of the reintegration. And you just storm out and you go to the Chinese restaurant. And that's where we have this incredible sort of. We always called it the heat scene.
- [52:35]
Adam Scott
Yeah. Mark Friedman, who was really digging into this scene, also one of our writers and executive producers, coined the heat scene. I remember hearing about it long before it happened. We always talked about it being the.
- [52:48]
Ben Stiller
Heat scene and the heat being the movie, the Michael Mann movie. The scene where Pacino and De Niro meet for the only in that movie. And, you know, the audience has been waiting for that moment. And we thought, well, this is kind of this moment where, you know, Helena and Outie Mark are meeting for the first time, and what is that gonna be about? And I thought you guys did an amazing job with that scene. And the writing of the scene, I think, is really, really interesting. And there's so much under the surface and so many levels to what you're experiencing with her and what she wants from you. It's really interesting. It never should have happened and it never will again. We take pride as a company to be better than that, and we will be better.
- [53:33]
Adam Scott
That's nice to hear. Thanks.
- [53:34]
Ben Stiller
Of course.
- [53:40]
Adam Scott
So you know all about it, then?
- [53:43]
Ben Stiller
Yes, I know all about it.
- [53:47]
D
I'm like the head of the Company Mark.
- [53:51]
Adam Scott
Right. Dumb. Sorry.
- [53:55]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, you should be sorry.
- [53:57]
Adam Scott
Really?
- [53:57]
Ben Stiller
I'm kidding.
- [53:58]
D
Okay, you're clearly not dumb.
- [54:00]
Adam Scott
I don't know. You're the one who invented a revolutionary medical procedure.
- [54:05]
Ben Stiller
Hey now that was. That was not me, that was my father.
- [54:08]
Adam Scott
Uh huh.
- [54:11]
Ben Stiller
You should meet him sometimes. Time.
- [54:14]
Adam Scott
Your father?
- [54:15]
Ben Stiller
Sure, why not?
- [54:16]
Adam Scott
You want to take me home to dad already?
- [54:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I think it's finally time.
- [54:21]
Adam Scott
Okay, sure, let's do it.
- [54:24]
Ben Stiller
You'd be the first.
- [54:26]
Adam Scott
So no pressure.
- [54:28]
D
Yeah, none whatsoever.
- [54:32]
Adam Scott
I love this scene. It was fun to do and it was just fun to kind of get this new dynamic between Britt and I and kind of figure out what it would be. And it ended up being kind of having this charge to it, like these two people, like, you know, Audi, Mark is scared shitless of this person and has no concept of who she is to him on the inside. But she does, obviously, and she knows they've actually slept together. So there's so much going on. But the fact that there ended up being this almost flirtatious charge to the scene was something that just really started happening while we were shooting it and felt really interesting.
- [55:15]
Ben Stiller
You sort of dip into it and then you go away from it and then you give into it and then you're.
- [55:20]
Adam Scott
Well, she starts fucking with me by like getting Gemma's name wrong.
- [55:23]
Ben Stiller
Right. What do you think that's about?
- [55:25]
Adam Scott
Oh, I think she's 100% fucking with me. Just toying, seeing what reaction she can get.
- [55:32]
Ben Stiller
It's so interesting.
- [55:33]
Adam Scott
She gets one.
- [55:33]
Ben Stiller
It's so interesting because it's almost like some sort of a manipulation that Milchick would do on the inside, you know, but it's Tona doing it on the outside.
- [55:43]
Adam Scott
But maybe she's not, you know, Britt and I never talked about that or any of. Maybe it's sincere, I don't know. But that's how I took it then.
- [55:51]
Ben Stiller
I think it's. Yeah. And when you think of all that's sort of the baggage in that scene. Like earlier that same day you both slept with each other.
- [56:01]
Adam Scott
Yeah, but neither of us are aware of that.
- [56:03]
Ben Stiller
Neither of you are aware of that. But she's aware that she slept with you and you're not aware that you slept with her with either of her, either of her. And that to me, what's so interesting to me about that is like, again, it's the question of like, what permeates? What permeates? What is, you know, what pheromones are there, what sort of, you know, what's the memory There. What is the connection? What's the love feeling? What's the. All those things? There's just so much going on to. I'm sure as actors, there's just so much there to have just sort of waiting to call up or play with.
- [56:35]
Adam Scott
Yeah, yeah. That's part of what was interesting about it, is that there was something there, and it was entirely different from whatever connection or flirtation exists in either of the versions that we had done before. It was like this new, weirder, more lived in thing because both of these people have lived a lot longer than the Innies and the grown ups more. It was just weird.
- [57:03]
Ben Stiller
And we shot that at a great restaurant called NG's up in Kingston, New York. It's a beautiful restaurant and great exterior, too. Yeah. And then you're all freaked out. You come out that sort of like spurs you to say, yes, let's go and let's do the sort of like the souped up version of Reintegration where she's gonna, you know, she's gonna inject the chip and really take it to the next level. And then Devon comes over while you're feeling the effects of this. And, you know, the ending of the episode is really you basically going unconscious and we don't know what's gonna happen to you.
- [57:37]
Adam Scott
Yeah, there's a seizure and.
- [57:39]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I mean, it's gone as far. And for us as an audience, we remember what happened to Petey outside of the gas station. And then we're also left at the end with, you know, after the Burt and Irving dinner, where it kind of all comes out. You know, it's just interesting thematically in this episode. I think it's all the relationships sort of the relationship confrontation stuff is happening. And then, yeah, Bert and Irving kind of realized that there's something going on there between them two. Same thing, 100%. And we're left with that last moment of Bert at the door where we don't quite know what Audi. Burt is up to. And it's great. Cause Chris Walken can just give a look. And I think when Chris is looking out that door at him, I don't know what Chris is thinking. He's probably thinking, I'm Bugs Bunny.
- [58:23]
Adam Scott
Yeah, I was just gonna say I think it was Bugs Bunny.
- [58:26]
Ben Stiller
Chris Walken. Bugs Bunny can be chilling. All right, this is great, man.
- [58:31]
Adam Scott
Yeah, this has been great. But we've got one final treat for listeners this episode. We got to talk with the great Sarah bach, who plays Ms. Wong. So let's go talk with Lumen's. New deputy floor manager of the Sephard floor, Sarah. Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
- [58:50]
D
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to see you guys.
- [58:54]
Adam Scott
Same.
- [58:54]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [58:55]
Adam Scott
Could not be happier to have you here.
- [58:58]
Ben Stiller
How's life for you these days?
- [59:00]
D
It's pretty good. It's pretty crazy. It's crazy that the show's coming out and midterms are next week and everything.
- [59:06]
Adam Scott
Yeah. You're in your first year of college and the show just came out a few weeks ago. What has it been like?
- [59:11]
D
Honestly, it's been pretty chill. Cause when it first came out, I was really sick, so, like, I didn't see anyone. But now that I've been out, my friends have been really supportive and they threw me a little surprise premiere party, which was so sweet.
- [59:25]
Adam Scott
I saw that on Instagram. It was so cool.
- [59:27]
D
Oh my gosh. Yeah, cool. No, that made my week. But yeah, everyone's been pretty chill about it, which I appreciate.
- [59:35]
Ben Stiller
That's great. I heard you when you were doing the mic check, talking about choreographing something. Are you working on a show there right now?
- [59:41]
D
Oh, yeah. There's like one of the theater boards. It's directed towards tya theater for young audiences. So they're putting on frog and toad right now. And I'm assistant choreographing that. So this morning we were working out some of the routines and teaching it to the cast, which was really fun.
- [59:57]
Adam Scott
That's great.
- [59:57]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Well, you're awesome in the show. When we found you, I was so happy. Cause Dan had this idea to have this character, Ms. Wong, and that she would be a young person. And we were, you know, thinking about who she could be and what she could be like. And it's that thing with any actor when you're looking for somebody to play a role when somebody walks in and they just have a special quality that feels. Feels so right. And I wonder what your memory is of coming in to audition for the show.
- [60:24]
D
Oh my gosh. I was so scared. I don't know if you guys. If you remember, like my first time meeting you, we were both testing for Covid because that was still going on and it was at my final callback. And I just remember being so terrified to meet you, but also like so excited. But no, I was so terrified.
- [60:43]
Adam Scott
And how did you hear about it? Because you don't live in like Hollywood or New York or anything, right?
- [60:49]
D
No, I'm from North Carolina, so I got a self tape from my manager and I just put myself on tape and hoped for the best Cool.
- [60:58]
Ben Stiller
And then you came in and you read in person with us. I remember. Yeah. And the callback. Did you feel like when you walked out of it, did you feel like, okay, that went well. Because I know when I've auditioned for things in the past, sometimes you have a feeling when you, you know, feels like it went well, like, oh, maybe this could work out. Yeah.
- [61:15]
D
I remember the in person one I had a lot of fun at, and I thought that went really well. Except you did bring me back into the room at one point, and you asked me to improvise, which I remember terrified me, because all the other girls, they're like, oh, my gosh. He had us improvise. I was like, that sucks for them. Like, I'm happy I went first. Thank God. Like, I guess I didn't even think that you guys could possibly make me do that. And the second I thought that, then pulled me back. But other than that, I thought it went pretty well.
- [61:46]
Adam Scott
So we all know that Ben is just so mean. Right? So that was your first taste of how mean he can be, making you improvise. Improvise.
- [61:56]
D
It was with that water toy, and I didn't know what it was, so I was so confused.
- [62:01]
Ben Stiller
Oh, right Then. Boy. I mean, and then the water toy became. I mean, it's really like you really mastered that thing. Had you ever seen one of those before? Mm.
- [62:10]
D
Mm. No, I'd never seen it.
- [62:12]
Adam Scott
That's really all we had, Sarah, back.
- [62:15]
Ben Stiller
Before phones and technology, back in the caveman days when we grew up. That's what you played with.
- [62:21]
D
No, I love them. They were really fun.
- [62:23]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [62:23]
Adam Scott
I just remember you showing up on set your first day and just being so impressed with you right out of the gate. You were so on it. You were dialed in, so funny, relaxed.
- [62:37]
D
Oh, wait, that's so sweet. I did not feel that way. I felt like I was chaotic that first day and stressed. But getting to see what you guys were doing, I was like, I need to. I need to try and be on their level and fake it till I make it.
- [62:50]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I think we're all faking it until we make it. Yeah, pretty much.
- [62:53]
D
But you.
- [62:53]
Ben Stiller
You were very. I would not say the perception was you were not chaotic or frazzled. You kind of just were very comfortable in your skin. And there's a sort of a stillness to Ms. Wong and, you know, this sort of interesting sort of layers to you because you can seem incredibly innocent. But then also there are moments where you seem like you're very knowing and, you know, sometimes authoritative too Yeah.
- [63:17]
D
I remember on my first day when you had me do that ball game scene and you had me stare at Adam for a super long time. That was when I started to realize, like, how scary she could be.
- [63:28]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [63:29]
D
And figure out more about the character.
- [63:30]
Adam Scott
You're intimidating. You really are. And were, by the way.
- [63:34]
Ben Stiller
That's not an easy thing to do, I think, as an actor, which is, you know, just ask somebody to really not do anything other than just be there in the moment and just look at someone. Because it can be incredibly revealing in a way.
- [63:47]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [63:47]
Ben Stiller
And both of you. That's one of my favorite moments in that first episode is really that energy between the two of you. And you just did not flinch at all. What were you thinking when you were staring at Adam like that?
- [64:01]
D
I was thinking, oh, my God, this has been like, oh, my gosh, I've been staring for a really long time. Yeah. It was scary.
- [64:09]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [64:09]
D
And I remember you came up to me a lot and you would be like, I don't know what you're thinking right now, but keep thinking it.
- [64:18]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And that's the other thing. Like, you don't want to mess with something that's going well with an actor. You don't want to tell them something that they become self conscious of. You want to talk a little bit about Milchick and your relationship with Mr. Milchick. There's obviously, it's a very layered relationship that evolves. Let's take a listen to that scene where you guys talk about Milchick's performance review.
- [64:38]
Christopher Walken
I had my performance review yesterday.
- [64:44]
D
How did it go?
- [64:47]
Ben Stiller
Many valid concerns were raised, which I look forward to addressing.
- [64:53]
D
I'm glad for you.
- [64:56]
Ben Stiller
I feel I should remind you you cannot graduate from this fellowship until I have deemed you Wintertide material. This will mean using your time well, focusing on your own duties and eradicating from your essence childish folly.
- [65:15]
D
I understand, sir.
- [65:19]
Ben Stiller
I shall be busy for the rest of the day. I trust you can Stewart the floor in my stead.
- [65:26]
D
Of course.
- [65:27]
Adam Scott
Good.
- [65:28]
Ben Stiller
You may sit at your regular desk.
- [65:31]
D
Thank you, Mr. Milchick.
- [65:35]
Adam Scott
It's such an interesting relationship between you two. It feels like there is some sort of power struggle happening there.
- [65:44]
D
Yeah. They definitely have a very interesting dynamic because, like, he's her boss, but also she kind of disagrees maybe with what he's doing a little bit, and she has her own opinions. So doing the scenes with Tramel was so much fun because, I mean, he's terrifying when he's Mr. Milchick. So getting to just like Stare at him and challenge him a little bit. That was really fun.
- [66:09]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, that's my experience working with him is he's the most incredibly warm, sweet, funny, laughing presence. But you guys are so good together. I love the scene in the supply closet in episode five when you're getting ready for the funeral for Irving. And that little power struggle that's happening there between the two of you is really fun to. Fun to watch.
- [66:31]
D
Yeah. I loved all my scenes with Tramiel. Those were my favorites. He's so amazing.
- [66:36]
Ben Stiller
And for episode four, what was your experience like when we went up into the mountains to shoot that scene? Because, I mean, you had to learn how to play the theremin for this episode?
- [66:48]
Adam Scott
Yeah.
- [66:49]
D
Like, for real?
- [66:50]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [66:51]
D
Yeah. I remember having a bunch of theremin lessons. My theremin teacher, Jennifer, she was fantastic. She just really drilled me on, like, the technique, which hopefully I got right. Theremin players don't come at me, but. But yeah, we just. That's the only song I know how to play, the song that's in the show. I learned how to play, like, the severance theme, but that's it. And we would just.
- [67:16]
Christopher Walken
That's incredible.
- [67:16]
Adam Scott
That's cool. You can play the severance theme on the theremin.
- [67:21]
D
Yeah, it was fun.
- [67:22]
Ben Stiller
I mean, for and for people. We talked about it in episode, but the theremin is like an instrument where you don't touch it. It's just you're moving your hands through space.
- [67:30]
D
Yeah. And you can't really use muscle memory because, like, depending on the environment, like, the wavelengths change. I don't really know. It's weird instrument, but it's really fun.
- [67:39]
Adam Scott
But then you almost get to play at Irving's funeral, and he stops you. And I think we really see Ms. Wong's cockles go up there a little bit. She gets pretty pissed off.
- [67:50]
D
Yeah. She was told she was going to play, and he went back on that agreement. How dare he?
- [67:55]
Adam Scott
Bad move.
- [67:57]
Ben Stiller
So are your friends like your friends who are throwing you a party? Is it strange to be in the show? Are you feeling like that it sort of affected your everyday life in any way? Or is it kind of like you're at school, you're doing your thing, people are cool, like you were saying, and you're just kind of going forward?
- [68:12]
D
Well, I was pretty intentional, like, coming in. I didn't want anyone to really know, so. So for the first few months, only two people knew. And then once it was, like, more announced, then everyone had, like, already gotten to know me. But I was. Oh, my gosh, two days ago, I was coming back from the gym. It's like a mile and a half away from the dining hall, and it started downpouring rain. And when I got to the dining hall, I was disgusting and, like, soaked in rain. And I got recognized for the first time by this kid, and he asked me for a picture, and it was so embarrassing. And then everybody. Everyone else around him then caught on, and they were all asking me for pictures. I was like, are you guys sure this is not a great look right now?
- [68:52]
Ben Stiller
I'm going to say that's not the last time that's going to happen to you. This is my prediction.
- [68:57]
Adam Scott
Indeed.
- [68:57]
Ben Stiller
In your life. Okay. Be prepared. I think it's so awesome that you're able to do what you're doing going to school. And I'm just so impressed with you since I first met you, and you're just a joy to work with. And I just wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you in the future.
- [69:15]
D
Oh, thank you. I had so much fun making the show with both of you.
- [69:18]
Adam Scott
Well done, Sarah.
- [69:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And good luck on midterms, Sarah. I'm so glad that I am not taking them.
- [69:24]
D
Thank you. I'll need that.
- [69:25]
Adam Scott
Yeah. If you need any advice on studying, I'm here anytime.
- [69:29]
Ben Stiller
Were you a good student, Adam?
- [69:30]
Adam Scott
No. This has been such a terrific episode. But before we go, we gotta make time for. For our friend Zack Cherry's favorite segment where we check in with him and he has a prediction about what he thinks will happen in episode seven. So, Zach, we're doing this for you. We know it's important to you, so go ahead.
- [69:56]
Ben Stiller
Hello again. It's Zach here. That was an intense episode of Severance, and I'm here to tell you things are only going to get more intense. Won't that be fun? Next time on Severance. I have a feeling that Mark's reintegration is gonna go a little funky. And actually it's gonna be a real freaky Friday situation where he switches bodies with Rigabi, and now he's a surgeon at the hospital. He doesn't have the skills. Hijinks are gonna ensue. It's gonna be a real pivot tonally for the show, but I think fans are gonna be pretty excited with what happens. I have to say that's actually one of the best predictions he's ever had.
- [70:45]
Adam Scott
It's really good.
- [70:46]
Ben Stiller
Cause it actually, to me, thematically, maybe tonally, is totally off Freaky Friday, but it does kind of thematically, to me, kind of work in what the show could do.
- [70:56]
Adam Scott
I love thinking about the sort of broad mid aughts Lindsay Lohan version of Severance happening. I think that's a good idea. I just appreciate that Zach didn't end this one by encouraging people to reach out to us about various subjects.
- [71:11]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I know. What is he talking about there? By the way? The next time on Severance makes me think of next time on Lonnie. Do you remember that web series it's from?
- [71:20]
Adam Scott
Oh, totally. With Alex.
- [71:21]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, Alex Enfanger and Dan Shemp. It's so funny. It was like a show that you never saw the actual show. All you ever saw were the previews for next week on and it would be some crazy thing.
- [71:30]
Adam Scott
So I recommend that I did an episode of that.
- [71:32]
Ben Stiller
Oh, you did?
- [71:33]
Adam Scott
I did.
- [71:33]
Ben Stiller
You did. So many cool web shows. All right, man.
- [71:36]
Adam Scott
Cool. That is it for this episode. The Severance podcast with Ben and Adam will be back next week to talk about season two, episode seven.
- [71:45]
Ben Stiller
And you can stream every episode of Severance on Apple tv with new episodes coming out every Friday.
- [71:50]
Adam Scott
And then make sure sure you're listening to our podcast, which drops right after the episode airs. Yes, the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions and Great Scott Productions.
- [72:07]
Ben Stiller
If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Bari Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Gabrielle Lewis, Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Rees Dennis. This show is produced by Zandra Ellen, Ben Goldberg and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basel. We had additional engineering from Javi Krusas and Davy Sumner.
- [72:33]
Adam Scott
Show clips are courtesy of fifth season music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey. Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Schuth.
- [72:50]
Ben Stiller
And the team at Red, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, John Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderruten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker and Oliver Agar.
- [73:01]
Adam Scott
And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin and Christy Smith. At Rise Management, we had additional production.
- [73:08]
Ben Stiller
Help from Kristen Torres and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Ben Stiller.
- [73:12]
Adam Scott
And I'm Adam Scott. Thank you for listening and remember to hang in there.