S2E9: The After Hours (with Sydney Cole Alexander)

Summary

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott – Episode S2E9: "The After Hours" Summary

Release Date: March 14, 2025

Introduction

In the ninth episode of Season 2, titled "The After Hours," Ben Stiller and Adam Scott dive deep into the penultimate installment of the Emmy- and Peabody Award-winning workplace thriller, Severance. Hosted by Audacy, Red Hour, and Great Scott Productions, this episode offers an insightful, behind-the-scenes breakdown of the show's intricate narrative, character developments, and thematic elements, all enriched by an exclusive conversation with Sydney Cole Alexander, who portrays Natalie.

Episode Overview

Ben and Adam kick off the podcast by expressing their excitement about discussing "The After Hours." They emphasize the episode's significance as the penultimate installment, setting the stage for the series finale. The hosts highlight the episode's exploration of key plot lines, including Helena's daily routine, Milchick's maneuvers within Lumen, and the evolving relationships between characters like Irving and Burt.

Guest Interview: Sydney Cole Alexander as Natalie

The focal point of the episode is an in-depth interview with Sydney Cole Alexander. Sydney recounts her audition experience, detailing her initial nervousness and how Ben Stiller's approachable demeanor helped her relax. She shares insights into her character, Natalie, highlighting the complexity of portraying a corporate figure who exudes friendliness while harboring manipulative tendencies.

"I bombed that audition. I was horrible," (09:23) Sydney humorously admits, underscoring her initial doubts before securing the role. She further elaborates on Natalie's interactions with other characters, particularly her contrasting relationships with Harmony and Milchick. Sydney explains how Natalie's empathy is a tool for manipulation, allowing her to navigate the corporate landscape effectively.

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Ben and Adam delve into specific scenes from the episode, offering their perspectives on character motivations and narrative choices. They discuss Helena's morning routine and the symbolic weight of the egg-eating scene, which Ben connects to his personal experiences. The hosts analyze Milchick's strategic decisions within Lumen, noting his shift towards taking control and the impact of his actions on other characters.

"Empathy awaits," (12:51) Ben reflects on the show's thematic focus, emphasizing how characters are often forced to reconcile personal ambitions with corporate expectations. The discussion extends to Irving and Burt's poignant relationship, highlighting the emotional depth and tragic elements that make their bond so compelling.

Key Scenes and Character Development

The podcast meticulously breaks down pivotal moments from "The After Hours." One such moment is Milchick's confrontation with Drummond, where he asserts his authority and showcases his internal struggle between adhering to company protocols and asserting personal autonomy. Adam appreciates Milchick's courage in this scene, noting how it humanizes a character traditionally viewed as antagonistic.

Another significant scene involves Dylan's strained relationship with Gretchen. Ben and Adam explore the emotional turmoil Gretchen experiences as she grapples with her dual identity as an Innie and Outie. The hosts commend Zach Cherry and Merritt for their heartfelt performances, which convey the complexities of love and loyalty within the severed framework.

Audience Engagement and Fan Questions

Continuing the interactive spirit of the podcast, Ben and Adam address fan questions submitted via the hotline. Sydney joins in to provide Lumen-approved answers, adding a layer of authenticity and engagement for listeners. Notable exchanges include humorous takes on bringing pets to work within the severed environment and clarifications on Natalie's interactions with the board.

"Well, my Lumen-approved answer would be that to question the board's existence is very inappropriate," (28:53) Sydney responds to a listener's query, blending in-character professionalism with playful banter.

Cliffhangers and Anticipation for the Finale

As the episode wraps up, Ben and Adam reflect on the use of cliffhangers in Severance. They discuss how these narrative devices differ in impact when viewers watch episodes weekly versus binge-watching. The hosts express excitement for the upcoming finale, anticipating how the show's intricate storylines will culminate.

"I love a cliffhanger. It spurs conversation," (58:29) Adam shares his enthusiasm, highlighting the communal experience of speculating about future developments. Ben concurs, acknowledging the show's ability to maintain suspense and audience engagement through expertly crafted narrative turns.

Conclusion

Episode S2E9 of The Severance Podcast provides a comprehensive and engaging exploration of "The After Hours." Through thoughtful analysis, personal anecdotes, and insightful interviews, Ben Stiller and Adam Scott offer fans a richer understanding of the show's latest developments. As they gear up for the finale, listeners are left eagerly anticipating the resolution of the complex web woven by the characters and the enigmatic corporation, Lumen.

Notable Quotes:

• Sydney Cole Alexander on auditioning with Ben Stiller:
  "I bombed that audition. I was horrible." (09:23)

• Ben Stiller on Natalie's manipulation:
  "She can feel what people are feeling immediately, but she lacks sympathy." (13:12)

• Sydney on balancing performance and authenticity:
  "Just being relaxed. It's kind of probably at its best, and you don't even realize it." (10:45)

• Adam Scott on cliffhangers:
  "I love a cliffhanger. It spurs conversation." (58:29)

• Ben Stiller on Milchick's character growth:
  "It's really a moment where you see him finally standing up for himself." (41:30)

This episode serves as a testament to the collaborative effort behind Severance, celebrating both the creative vision of the show and the dedication of its cast. Whether you're a seasoned fan or new to the series, this podcast episode offers valuable insights that enhance the viewing experience.

Transcript

[Ben Stiller]

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by State Farm. Learn [e-mail] severance like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey, Adam.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah?

[Ben Stiller]

Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately?

[Adam Scott]

I don't know. I think it's.

[Ben Stiller]

It's okay. I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose confluence by Atlassian.

[Ben Stiller]

Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and. And deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.

[Adam Scott]

So that would equal out, like, if we're playing with, like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah, that's the improvement.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

[Adam Scott]

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.

[Ben Stiller]

So why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all set, knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian.com confluence that's a T l a s s I-a n.com c o n f l U-E-N c e. Are you in a bed and breakfast or like a house or.

[Adam Scott]

I'm. It's a hotel. It's like a manor that's been turned into a hotel. It's very nice.

[Ben Stiller]

That's so cool.

[Adam Scott]

I went on a hike today around the grounds and I. Ah. And I almost had to, like, call the front desk to ask if someone could come get me.

[Ben Stiller]

You call Mr. Milchick?

[Adam Scott]

Oh, totally.

[Ben Stiller]

Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

I'm Adam Scott and this is the.

[Ben Stiller]

Severance podcast with Ben and Adam where we break down every episode of Severance.

[Adam Scott]

And today we're talking about the penultimate episode. I finally get to say penultimate this season.

[Ben Stiller]

I like that word, penultimate.

[Adam Scott]

Me too.

[Ben Stiller]

It's the second to last.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Did that word exist before? Like four years ago? I feel like I'd Never heard that word until. I don't know.

[Ben Stiller]

I've been using penultimate for at least 20 years.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, wow.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And I pull it out to impress people.

[Adam Scott]

Well, it's really impressive.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, now it's become more mainstream, I guess, since you. You're aware of it.

[Adam Scott]

Wait, that is so deeply insulting.

[Ben Stiller]

Anyway, we're talking about the penultimate episode.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Season two, episode nine, the After Hours, which was written by our favorite brain in a jar, Dan Erickson, and directed by our favorite brain outside of a jar, UTA Brezewitz.

[Ben Stiller]

It's an exciting episode. We're gonna be joined by Sidney Cole Alexander, who plays Lumen's very own Natalie, that face of the corporation, who is very hard to figure out what's going on behind her eyes.

[Adam Scott]

She is so good.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And she voices our hotline voice message. So not only will we talk about what Natalie's been up to this season, but she also helps us answer your hotline questions.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. And then after that, Ben and I will go through the episode, and finally, of course, Zack Cherry will be back to predict what's gonna happen in next week's finale. You know what? I have a good feeling about this one. I think he's finally gonna get it right.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I think he will. I mean, he's gotta get at least something right.

[Adam Scott]

Like a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Consider this your spoiler alert. Okay. Make sure to watch the ninth episode of the second season before listening to this. So just take a second right now and turn us off, no matter how.

[Adam Scott]

Difficult that may be.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. But please come back to us.

[Adam Scott]

So, Ben, what's new? What's going on?

[Ben Stiller]

It's funny. I feel like it's been a few times that we've had to record the podcast after a Knicks loss.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man.

[Ben Stiller]

And it's happened before, and I have.

[Adam Scott]

To say that's difficult for you.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It was a big game last night, and I love our team, and it's just sort of, you know, this is the situation that we need to deal with. Now, granted, no OG Anunoby, no Mitchell Robinson.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

But I was there at the game. By the way, the great Karl Anthony Townes, All Star fan of the show.

[Adam Scott]

Really?

[Ben Stiller]

Yep.

[Adam Scott]

That's so cool.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. He and his wife, and he tweeted about it.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And also Precious Achua, who's our strong four, who sometimes plays the five when he has to. So exciting that those guys are into the show.

[Adam Scott]

It's great.

[Ben Stiller]

And your friend Spike Lee was at the game last night.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, he was. Spike Lee was there.

[Ben Stiller]

He was sort of your role model. Right. You wanted to be Spike Lee.

[Adam Scott]

I did. I love Spike Lee. And when I was a teenager, I got very into do the Right Thing in the summer of 89. So when I started my junior year, I was wearing a nexcap, I had grown a goatee, I had horn rimmed glasses. And that's a good look.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

And I considered myself an auteur of sorts.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And then I'm just picturing you doing your dance that you do during the music dance experience with all that gear on, which.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

Could not be more white.

[Adam Scott]

There's nothing, nothing whiter than that dance. When we went to the Knicks game a couple of weeks ago, Spike Lee was there.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It was the night that the season was premiering.

[Adam Scott]

Right. It was Friday, January 17th.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

It was so fun because that whole week leading up to the premiere, we had the Grand Central Station thing. We were doing press altogether in New York, so it was super fun. And it all kind of culminated on that night. And it felt like some people at the game had already watched the premiere by that time. Friday night. Yeah, it was just such a fun time. And afterwards, Britt and I shared a ride back to our hotel and we stopped in Times Square. Cause we wanted to get a photo of the severance ad in Times Square.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. Which is really exciting because, like, I mean, the first time around there was an awareness of the show, but this time around there's more people who are seeing it and there's more publicity and there's more ads and stuff. So it's been really fun to see that.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. So then Britt and I were taking a photo in Times Square. We wanted to get a photo of that big.

[Ben Stiller]

The billboards.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

We're stopped on the side of the road to try and get a photo of it. And suddenly we heard from behind us, someone going, hey, Severance, that's you up there, Severance. We were like, what? And we turn around and it was Spike Lee in his car kind of driving by. And he stopped to talk to us. He's like, that's you guys?

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my goodness.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it was amazing.

[Ben Stiller]

So this is sort of like a full circle moment for you.

[Adam Scott]

It was. So I got to finally meet Spike Lee and talk to him about how.

[Ben Stiller]

Rad John Turturro is driving his own car. Or was he being driven?

[Adam Scott]

No, he was in the backseat.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Adam Scott]

So yes, he was driving from the backseat, which Is really weird. You know, part of it that was so funny was his kind of amazement at us standing there and then also being up on the thing, like he was getting a kick out of that, like he was a kid.

[Ben Stiller]

That's like a full on New York moment, right?

[Adam Scott]

Completely.

[Ben Stiller]

Totally.

[Adam Scott]

We're in Times Square. Spike Lee after a Knicks game. It was a big deal.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Well, Sidney, Cole Alexander's here. Should we talk to her?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. We are so thrilled to welcome our guest today, the incredible Sydney Cole Alexander, who plays Natalie. She's here with us on the podcast. Sydney, thank you for doing this.

[Gretchen]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Ben Stiller]

You're such a great, unique character on the show. Natalie is many different things. Do you remember how you got the part when we started?

[Gretchen]

Yes, absolutely. I remember every detail. I got the audition, did the audition, and then I was called in for a callback at the studio. And I remember my manager called and was like, so Ben Stiller is going to be in the room. And I'm like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? This is crazy because, you know, I grew up watching you, and sometimes, you know, you get a producer or director session and you have to Google the person to know who they are. But that was not the case for me. And I think at the time, I was still getting really nervous during my auditions. Like, papers would be shaking in my hands, and so I'm waiting to come in and I'm waiting for that feeling to happen. And I. It didn't happen. And it was weird. It kind of felt like the stars aligned. And I was like, okay, what's happening right now? And I entered and you were so friendly and you were like, oh, you went to LaGuardia High School? And we were chatting about that. And so I did the audition, and I remember I left and I called my boyfriend at the time and I was like, I bombed that audition. I was horrible. Like, there's no way I'm booking this role. And I think it's because I wasn't as nervous as I normally was. I just didn't know what was happening. It felt unfamiliar and it felt strange.

[Ben Stiller]

Interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that you didn't feel like you did well because you were so great. I remember you were so great and so unique. And you hadn't really done that much right when you got the role.

[Gretchen]

No, actually, I got brought in for the camera test to, you know, check out the hair and makeup. And after you were like, okay, you can step out Now. And I stood directly in front of a light, and you looked at me, and you're like, you're standing in front of a light. And I was like, oh. And I moved to the side. And then you were like, have you done TV before? And I was like, not a lot. And you were like, well, this is great for you. Congratulations. And you're so friendly and welcoming. And I was like, oh, I hope he doesn't fire me. Oh, no.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, no.

[Adam Scott]

That's nice.

[Ben Stiller]

It was really exciting. Cause, you know, you were obviously so good, and it was like, oh, this is fun. Because this is, like, a new talent that the world is gonna see, you.

[Adam Scott]

Know, I remember so many auditioning and being so crazy nervous and so specifically hitting every beat I want to hit and purposefully performing each little thing nervously. And you're right that when you're relaxed, that's when it's over. You feel like nothing happened, and it had to be boring and unspecific and shitty, but you were just relaxed. And that's when it's kind of probably at its best, and you don't even realize it.

[Gretchen]

That's such a good point. I think so. Because it doesn't feel like performing, you know?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Gretchen]

And then the first day on set, it was really quick. Cause we just did that news. That little news section, Right.

[Ben Stiller]

The news story that Mark's watching on tv.

[Gretchen]

So that was really quick.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Where you're a talking head on the local news. Yeah.

[Gretchen]

So we blew through that scene. I think it was like, 10, 15 minutes we shot only, which is, like, so fast. And then when I came back for my first scene. Scene, Ben, you had seen my Crest commercial that had come out.

[Ben Stiller]

Exactly.

[Gretchen]

And you were like, give me the Crest smile. And I was like, what? And so the smile just kept getting bigger and bigger. Bigger. And it's so funny because I think, especially because I went to performing arts middle school and high school and college, and people are like, oh, commercials. I don't want to do commercials. And you really never know. Like, that commercial influenced Natalie on, you know, a piece of work that I'm really proud of. So I feel like I'm like, yeah, commercials. You never know. It might. It might be an incredible experience that kind of gives something else a little something.

[Adam Scott]

And Natalie's smile, man.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

It's, like, incredible, no?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, it's incredible. I remember that, too. And it's also a time when the scenes that we were doing early on in the show with Cobell and you and we were still finding it, we Were still experimenting with the tone. I mean, there were scenes that we shot a couple of times because we were trying to figure out what Cobell should feel like. And you and her, I remember, just have that amazing scene where she just kind of comes right up into your face there, and you have to just sort of listen to her and feel her energy. And then, you know, also, you always have the board in your ear. And the scene. You know, the first scene with her where you're. You know, where you put your finger up.

[Gretchen]

Okay, so the board is conveying pretty strongly that the severance procedure is provenly irreversible.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes.

[Gretchen]

And that this knowledge should be a given for a person managing a severed floor.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, of course.

[Gretchen]

While, of course, getting MTR to their projected numbers by the quarterly deadline in three weeks.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, of course. We are quickly rekindling our yield down here with our nimble new refiner. And for what it's worth, I. Ford.

[Gretchen]

Has concluded the call.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. Okay. Thank you. And may I ask.

[Gretchen]

Goodbye. Harmony.

[Ben Stiller]

It just became kind of iconic, I think, for the show and so specific to the tone of the show. But you really locked in, in such a great way to find that sort of veneer, not to use a tooth term, but, you know, the fake. Whatever. But it's not fake. It's like a very. I think people connect with it because it's so indicative of what it's like to work at a company where people are always on the outside. They're so nice.

[Gretchen]

Yeah, I think so.

[Adam Scott]

I think we can use all dental terms with Syd. And, like, you're really able to floss right in between the beats.

[Ben Stiller]

There's no gingivitis in your work at all. Yeah. But for me, it was fun working on those scenes. I remember talking to you a little bit, because I did know at that point it was, like, one of your first experiences. And it was fun to just kind of, like, do it with you and see how you were really just. It was almost like I could feel you sort of, like, just becoming more and more comfortable in your work. And I think, you know, to be new at an experience like that, that's not easy to do. I remember my first on TV shows that were smaller than your role and being really nervous because you have to just come in there and perform. And it's just a whole. It's a lot. It's a lot. But you seem to really settle into it and have, like, an inner sort of confidence that really served the character well.

[Gretchen]

Thank you so much. I was a little Nervous because, you know, it's like first day with a larger scene on set with a legend with Patricia Arquette. But what was helpful for me was just coming in really, really prepared because I can overthink sometimes when I know I'm prepared. I don't have the room to overthink that much because I'm like, I've done the work, I know that. So now I can kind of just relax and see what the other actors are giving me. And since there's so much talent in this show, it was kind of easy to just look into people's eyes because it's unlike an audition. I'm not having to imagine what the other person is doing. There's so much coming back toward me to work with. So I think it was like a mix of preparation and then also just being awestruck by all of the hard working people around me that were just so obviously talented and benevolent. Unlike all of the characters in the show are not all so benevolent.

[Ben Stiller]

All right, this is a perfect moment to take a quick break. We'll be back right after this. Our conversation with Sydney is sending me back to the early days of my career when I'd be sitting in audition rooms surrounded by other actors, all of us going out for the same role. And I was awful at auditioning. Then eventually I got a little bit better at it. Like, good enough to get callbacks, and then finally, you know, I got a job. But I think it took me like two or three years. And like Sydney said, it can make your feet and palms sweaty and just, it's a, you know, palpable feeling. But if you're able to finally get to a point where you're relaxed and, you know you're going to crush it and you just feel good and, you know, kind of centered within yourself, there's no better feeling. And with State Farm by your side, you can feel confident and relaxed about taking that step with your insurance. You know, when you really feel confident in it, your State Farm agent is here to help support you. When it's time to get your own policy and things get complicated, State Farm gives you lots of ways to get help too. Whether you prefer in person, over the phone, on statefarm.com or through the app, your agent is there to help. So if it's time to get off your parents insurance and into your own, go to statefarm.com severance to find out how State Farm can help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey, Ben, here. I know you love listening to podcasts, so I wanted to introduce you to a brand new show called Campus Files. It's a weekly series that digs into the archives of American colleges and universities to take us behind some of the most outrageous scandals in the history of academia. While often a beacon of integrity and excellence, the reality of college life can also expose the darkest parts of American culture. From rigged admissions to sports scandals to Greek life drama, Campus Files shares the stories you won't hear on the campus tours. Listen to and follow Campus Files, an Odyssey original podcast, available now in the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Adam Scott]

This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. I can confidently leave my cards at home because I have my iPhone. From grabbing coffee to catching a ride, I tap with Apple Pay, add your cards in the wallet app and you're ready. Just double click the side button, smile for face ID and tap to pay your card number and your purchases stay secured. Pay the Apple way with your compatible device anywhere contactless payment is accepted. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, llc, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer. So for season two, Natalie really kind of has to shift her focus to Milchick a bit more than Cobell. So how did that change Natalie and what she was doing for you?

[Gretchen]

Oh, I love that question. I think for me, first of all, like, I had worked at a company that reminds me of Volumin, so I, I knew what it was like to like, be on the receiving end of friendly feedback, but it feels like you're being stabbed in the heart. And so I, I felt like I kind of understood the world and how people communicate in that way. And so for me, there was a lot of back and forth with Harmony and a lot of like, threat because she's not following the rules. And that was pretty clear to me. But then when it comes to Milchick, like, he's so by the books, especially in season one, and he's such a company man and he's so committed that I felt like there was room for Natalie to have a different relationship with this individual. And so because he hasn't questioned me, because he has, he seems to like, be more inquisitive about how to go about things. And I didn't feel threatened by him. I felt like I could have a slightly different tone with him than I did with Harmony, who to me it's like the closer she gets to the board, the further away I'm getting to the board. And so that creates like, some tension between Us. But Milchick is a different case.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I mean, it is interesting. Everybody's sort of ambitions or sort of prerogative working at the company, besides being committed to the company and to the ideology of the company, but also just the, you know, the ambitions that each character has within the company for what they want personally. And, I mean, I think we start to see that in season two, especially in episode three, that scene where Tramiel gets the black kir paintings, the recanonicalized paintings. And you two both did such great work with that scene. And I remember we all talked about it to really get each person's perspective, working on it. How did you approach that scene? Because I thought you both had so much subtext going on in that scene that was, you know, very, very complicated and layered.

[Gretchen]

So I tried to think about, like, so we're all people in this world, and some things we're conscious of and other things are subconscious. So I tried, like, as an actor to understand everything that was happening subconsciously. I thought about how interesting it is if two black characters are having a different black experience. And I asked myself, like, well, would Natalee choose to kind of lean on her being light skinned? Like, would she take that path? And I thought the answer was yes. And so even though there were moments where I felt, like, sympathy come up, because I think that Natalie is very empathetic. I think that's why she's so great at manipulating, because she. She can feel what people are feeling immediately, but she lacks sympathy. And so when there were moments that where I started to feel sympathetic, I tried to just, like, push it back down in order to maintain my status in the company. Because I think that while she may have sympathetic feelings, her drive to maintain as close to the board as she can is more of a priority for her. So I. What I tried to do is kind of like, let those things come up without letting them take over completely. Because I don't think that Natalie, at least now in her journey, would be able to do that, because this is everything to her. And so I thought about, like, okay, well, if Tramelle's gonna approach it this way and I approach it from a different way, I think that that's more interesting to see two people who are struggling with a similar problem, but are approaching it differently and responding to it differently. And you can kind of see their different levels of humanity in a way.

[Ben Stiller]

What I also appreciated when we were doing this scene and watching you guys work was how in the moment you were with each other. So, like, you come in with Like a lot of ideas about subtext and ideas of where you're coming from. But then it felt to me in the best way that the two of you were then just sort of in the moment with each other and reacting to the other person's energy in a way that. That made the scene very alive.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. It's fascinating to watch the two of you grapple with this situation without saying a word.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And then the next scene that I really enjoy is the way you're sort of playing Rickon like a violin. It feels to me like it's just, again, so much interesting subtext. And in a way, it's even more mysterious thing going on there. Whatever is talk you guys have been having when Devin walks in.

[Gretchen]

But surely beer and juleps cannot fill the void left by love. Indeed, only wine can achieve this. But it is famously costly, which is why sadness is among the most recurrent issues facing the poor. Remarkable. So astute, is it?

[Ben Stiller]

That's what I was going for. Hi.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Oh, my.

[Ben Stiller]

Babe, this is Natalie Kalin from Lumen. Is everything okay? Oh, yes.

[Adam Scott]

God, yes.

[Ben Stiller]

Natalie just stopped by to discuss my book, actually.

[Gretchen]

Oh, it's a joy to meet you, Devin. You must be so proud.

[Ben Stiller]

Mm, I am.

[Gretchen]

I'm sure you know by now that your husband's work has found its way onto our severed floor.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Gretchen]

Do we know how that happened yet?

[Ben Stiller]

So we've actually moved beyond that, and we are now discussing the. What was the term you used?

[Gretchen]

The result.

[Ben Stiller]

The result.

[Gretchen]

That was a really fun scene to shoot as well, because I remember we went through so many different variations of, like, for a lack of a better word, Natalie maybe flirting a little bit. Like, how much. How can she be professional? How can she flirt? And, like, where is the line? And kind of playing around. And that's one thing that's so wonderful about working with you, Ben, is that you. I feel like you really allow the actors to try different things and go too far and then pull it back and change the size of whatever we're doing. And that freedom is just really wonderful.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's necessary on this show, too, just because we never quite know, you know, where the line is, and we don't do a lot of improvisation. But the two of you in that scene, it was really fun, you know, to watch. And that's the thing, you know, it's just a take. I always remind myself, you know, it's just one take. You can try something. It'll be awful. Doesn't matter. It actually can be helpful. Sometimes because you know you're not going to use that one, but it helps get you somewhere else. Maybe that's true.

[Adam Scott]

So all season, we've been asking fans to call in with questions, and as you know, you were kind enough to record the outgoing voicemail message for us. Thank you again. Of course. Now, would you be down to give some Lumen approved answers to some of these questions?

[Gretchen]

For sure.

[Ben Stiller]

All right.

[Adam Scott]

All right, let's listen to the first one. Hello, this is Stephanie Lipschitz calling. I'm interested in becoming a severed employee. Previously, I've been able to bring my dog to work with me, and I was wondering if that was a possibility working on the severed floor. If so, would my dog need to undergo a severed procedure as well? Thank you. Praise cure. Wow.

[Ben Stiller]

Interesting.

[Adam Scott]

Interesting question.

[Gretchen]

Fabulous question. Well, I would have to say that Lumen has a strict policy against bringing in animals unless it is a service animal. And as far as a severance procedure goes, yes, the dog would have to be severed, and then they could work with the goats and wrangle in all of the goats and be a sheepdog, if you will. That's really the only option.

[Ben Stiller]

Wow, that's smart.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Ben Stiller]

I'd like my dog to get severed because my dog half the time has issues with me. I think something happened. Yeah, but that's another story.

[Adam Scott]

I'd like my dogs to get severed, and maybe the severed half of them would be trained and they would do what I say.

[Gretchen]

Misbehaving dogs. Weirdly enough, my cats listen to me pretty well. They even do tricks for treats. And they come when I call them. I know.

[Adam Scott]

Will you take my dogs for, like, two weeks and teach them how to do.

[Gretchen]

Are they food motivated?

[Adam Scott]

I don't know what motivated every dog is food motivated?

[Ben Stiller]

Are you more of a dog person or a cat person, Sydney?

[Gretchen]

Oh, I've always been a dog person. But over the pandemic, I fostered three cats, and then I somehow ended up with two. But I had them when they were two and a half weeks old because they were abandoned. So they're very attached to me and they even sleep through the night. They drool when I pet them. They run to the door like dogs when I come home from work. I think they're very strange cats.

[Ben Stiller]

Very dog like.

[Gretchen]

I know.

[Adam Scott]

I love cats.

[Gretchen]

Cats are great. I didn't. I thought they were fine before this, but now I love cats. So I would say I'm both a cat person and a dog person. I don't think I can choose.

[Ben Stiller]

All right, should we listen to the next hotline question.

[Adam Scott]

Yes. Hey, this is Simon calling from Sydney, Australia. And because I'm calling from so far away, I have two quick questions. The first one is about Natalie. I love her board scene and I guess I just want to know is anyone actually giving her any feedback or message through the earpiece or is that just her performance? It's brilliant. It's incredible.

[Ben Stiller]

And I love her face.

[Adam Scott]

The second question is around your opening credit scenes. And I've noticed that in some episodes you feature it and some you don't. And I've seen that across other shows lately. I'm interested to know if there's some thinking behind that. Thanks, guys. Brilliant show.

[Ben Stiller]

Love it. I mean, first of all, I'm impressed that someone's watching the show in Australia.

[Adam Scott]

I know.

[Ben Stiller]

Is that naive to be impressed? Because that's really exciting.

[Adam Scott]

It's far away. Can I tell you something that's going to blow your mind, Ben?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I'm in Ireland right now.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

They have this.

[Ben Stiller]

Wait, what?

[Adam Scott]

They have.

[Ben Stiller]

You're in Ireland?

[Adam Scott]

I'm in. I'm in Ireland. Did you not see my sweater?

[Gretchen]

I was gonna comment on your sweater, but I didn't want the listeners to feel left out. I was like, that's a cool sweater.

[Ben Stiller]

Did they give you that when you got off the plane? Like. Like in Hawaii you get a lay. No, that's right.

[Adam Scott]

They put a sweater on you.

[Ben Stiller]

A cable knit sweater.

[Adam Scott]

So the thing to impress you, I'm in Ireland. They have the show here too.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Is it. Do they dub it with Irish accents?

[Adam Scott]

Yes, we all have Irish accents.

[Gretchen]

Incredible.

[Ben Stiller]

That's a good question though, I think, Sydney.

[Gretchen]

Yeah. My Lumen approved answer would be that to question the board's existence is very inappropriate. And this suspicion that this person seems to have is they might need a wellness check for that.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. To even ask about that. It's a little bit. Simon. I mean, I don't know how they do it in Australia, Simon. But we don't question the board here.

[Adam Scott]

No, that's Australian for board.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And I have to say, Sydney, whatever you're doing there, we could watch you listen to the board all day. It's great.

[Adam Scott]

And then the little sound effect they put in of the crackle.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And also the finger. The finger is pretty great.

[Gretchen]

Oh, it's so fun. Cause I'd never do that to anyone in real life. So it's so fun to be able to do it in acting. Cause it's just so condescending. It's Just what an experience.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I remember when we were editing that scene the first time in the first season. It was just so much fun to watch you hold that and how long we could just watch you listen for so long that we would, like extend it as long as possible because it was so much fun.

[Adam Scott]

Well, what about the opening credits?

[Ben Stiller]

Opening credits? Yeah, I mean, I've heard some people expound on theories about when we do and don't have the opening credits. And it's really something that is a choice that we make based on the episode, really, you know, that what feels right or not we kind of did in the first season. We didn't have the opening credits in the first episode, so we thought second season will do the same thing. And of course we have a new opening credit sequence for season two, so that's been fun to see play out. And I hope as the season has gone by, as we get to episode 10 coming up, that some of the little fun, little Easter eggs in there have been noticed, which I am sure they have, by our incredible audience that sees everything. They see everything. Isn't it amazing?

[Gretchen]

It's crazy. The Reddit page is insane.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm so glad I don't know how to use Reddit. I'm so glad I'm old. All right, well, thanks for the messages, everybody. Keep them coming, please. And Sydney, thanks so much. It's great to talk to you. Great to see you. So much fun working with you on the show. You're so good in season. So thanks.

[Gretchen]

Thank you so much.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, thank you, Sydney.

[Gretchen]

This has been wonderful and I'm just so honored to be a part of the show. Thank you for having me.

[Adam Scott]

All right, it's time for us to take a quick break. When we come back, Ben and I will talk all about episode nine.

[Ben Stiller]

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[Adam Scott]

Where'd you get those shoes? Easy.

[Ben Stiller]

They're from DSW. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the.

[Adam Scott]

Boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer.

[Ben Stiller]

To multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes.

[Adam Scott]

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[Ben Stiller]

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[Adam Scott]

It's time for us to break down this episode. It starts with our first peek at Helena's daily routine. She goes for a swim and then eats an egg with her dad. Let's listen to some of that. A momentous day.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. What you eat, I'll watch.

[Adam Scott]

Man. Yeah, I just have to ask. Ben, did this scene and the eggs gross you out?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, it actually was inspired by my life because my dad used to like to watch me eat eggs in the morning.

[Adam Scott]

Really?

[Ben Stiller]

No, I didn't. This is all Dan Erickson, of course. I mean, eggs gross me out anytime I see a shot. Like when she's splitting the egg with the weird egg splitter. Yeah. I made sure when UDA was shooting and I would just stay far away, you were offset.

[Adam Scott]

It looks like, like, literally Ben's nightmare unfolding.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Also, by the way, like, it's just interesting that we get to see for the first time the Egan Mansion where they live and that they're living together.

[Adam Scott]

Yes. Odd.

[Ben Stiller]

And the swimming routine in the morning, I think, you know, there's obviously the undercurrent of the drowning that happened in 204. And those shots are really elegantly done by Uta Brushewitz and David Lansenberg, our cinematographer for the episode. But, you know, Just the space. Seeing a new space. The idea that they live basically very close to Lumen.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

Which we see as the camera pulls back.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

You see the water tower. And that was part of, like, trying to. This world that everybody's in there is sort of, in a weird way, it's all kind of connected. And even though it's vast in its reach, it's also kind of very, very small, too.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Also just Helen is like, what her life is, what her birthday is.

[Adam Scott]

It's really interesting to see her kind of by herself, clearly, at least as a audience member. I'm still reeling from what happened in 204, and clearly she's been kind of forced to go back down there as heli, and she didn't want to. She wanted to continue faking it. And she's been kept out. And her dad is clearly disappointed, upset. Something is going on, and he's certainly not being upfront about it. All that to say. This breakfast scene is really potent because you can tell she is wanting something, some communication from him, and he's not giving her anything.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Other than that, he's not super warm.

[Adam Scott]

No, no, James, that's not the word I would use.

[Ben Stiller]

And then he says it's a momentous day, and Mark has other plans. He's playing hooky.

[Adam Scott]

Right. Heli's looking for him. Milchick's looking for him. Drummond is looking for him. So we don't actually see what's going on with Mark and Devin until kind of deep into the episode. And you start getting this feeling that people are looking for him.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I think, you know, we know that this is the day that is getting close to finishing Cold harbor, and you can feel the stress that Milchick is under. Calling Drummond, getting the call from Dr. Maurer on the testing floor.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

There's obviously a lot of dominoes are falling here by you not being there.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

Milchick is tasked with having to get you back.

[Adam Scott]

Right. Okay. So let's talk about what's going on with Mr. Milchick. He starts making moves inside Lumen, starting with getting rid of his deputy floor manager, Ms. Wong. Let's listen to him. Breaking this news tour.

[Ben Stiller]

Unveil Eustace Huang. Today marks the end of your Wintertide Fellowship. Congratulations. Your bed will be moved from your parents home to the Gunnel Egan Empathy center in Svalbard, where you will work to steward global reforms. I thought I'd be finishing the quarter. Empathy awaits, fellow Wong. Empathy awaits.

[Adam Scott]

This is really interesting. What's he Doing, I think.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, first of all, we know the Wintertide Fellowship is what Cobell was a part of. You know, she was a Wintertide fellow and she was. And so she's obviously on a track. Right, I guess, to go up the corporate ladder there, it seems. But it's a little bit early, so it seems like he might be making that call. You know, there's been tension between them, but, you know, it's a move.

[Adam Scott]

I mean, we've been seeing her take liberties here and there, particularly in conversations with him, and sort of getting her cockles up a little bit with him, maybe inappropriately. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, it's hard to tell how much of this is him just following protocol and maybe what's underneath, you know, even with smashing the ring toss game, which is part of this ritual. So he says you have to make a material sacrifice and it's very much, I think, according to protocol and the way that you're supposed to do things. But also, I can't imagine that there's not a little something there inside of him that is taking a little bit of pleasure in seeing her have to smash her game that she's always playing, for sure.

[Adam Scott]

And I almost feel like Milchik is just sort of, in this episode, taking charge of his own path here at Lumen. And Ms. Wong, it's almost like she's just causing a little bit of drag on his, like, aerodynamics of what he's trying to do.

[Ben Stiller]

Sure.

[Adam Scott]

Later, he's sort of breaking free a bit and taking the reins a bit with his relationship with Drummond. And here we see him unshackling himself from Ms. Wong.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, for sure. And then it goes right to the drumming scene where he basically lets him have it. And it's been building up. And for me, watching that scene, it's probably the most human that we've seen. Milchick, you want to listen to that scene?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I do.

[Ben Stiller]

Devour feculence. It makes means eat shit. Mr. Drummond, what did you just say to me? I am manager of the severed floor, which means two things. First, I am owed a measure of respect, even by my superiors. Second, and more obvious, that said floor comprises the whole of my jurisdiction. To put that monosyllabically, it's not my fault what Mark Scout does when he is not at work. It's yours.

[Adam Scott]

So awesome.

[Ben Stiller]

Go, Milchick.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, man.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It needed to be said.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah. I feel like people are going to stand up and cheer when they see this moment.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I mean, it's really a moment where you see him finally, you know, standing up for himself outside of the adherence to being the. The company man. Deeper than that, whatever. His religious ideology is connected to the company, which obviously goes pretty deep, too.

[Adam Scott]

It also, I think, points directly to the brilliance of Tramiel's performance here and just how deeply we as an audience feel for this guy who technically, in the construct of the show, is an antagonist of sorts. But, you know, it's. What makes this a little more complicated is we're all on board with him as a character. Even when he's doing things we don't quite agree with, he's emotionally involving us to the point of rooting for him in a moment like this.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And I think that's what's interesting about him as a character, too. And Tramil has talked about it, that, you know, Milchick is ambitious within the company. So for him to make this choice, which is to tell his superior to each.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Is for him really a big deal.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man. Totally.

[Ben Stiller]

And the way that Tramel says mono. Syllabic.

[Adam Scott]

I know, it's great.

[Ben Stiller]

I remember there was one take there where Trammel, he said monosyllabically, and then he said the rest of the whole line like that. It is not my responsibility. It is yours. And it was one. It was a take we almost used because it was so interesting and weird. But ultimately we felt like, you know, go with that one. But he. He just like the fact that he. He's so brave as an actor just to go for things like that and be so centered.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

In his body.

[Adam Scott]

Contained.

[Ben Stiller]

Contained. And he just. It's all there. You just feel it. And he doesn't have to do anything on the outside. He doesn't have to gesticulate or move. And it's just very centered and locked in. And it's always great to watch.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Meanwhile, Dylan's relationship with Gretchen reaches a breaking point. She told her husband, Audi Dylan, that she's been meeting with his innie at the visitation suite, and he is not happy about it. So Gretchen decides to call it off with any. Dylan. Let's hear that.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Wait. Gretchen, My life started when you came here.

[Ben Stiller]

That's not true. You have so much going for you.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

No, I have nothing else. I have. I have this, and I have fucking pencil erasers.

[Adam Scott]

I'm sorry, I have to go.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Wait, wait.

[Ben Stiller]

Uh, Gretchen G. Oh, my God. Um.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

I love you. And I know I'm just an innie, but I love you all the way. I do. Gretchen, I made this for you. I can give you A life.

[Adam Scott]

Please. I'm so sorry.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Gretchen.

[Gretchen]

Gretchen.

[Adam Scott]

Oh my God.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I mean, it's just one of those storylines that it's very unique to the setup of the show.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

The idea that he's in love with this woman that he can't have because his Audi has her. And she of course is trying to, you know, there's no way that she's going to be able to leave her husband for his innie. And it just is playing out like in a very relatable way in terms of somebody gets involved with somebody else while they're in a committed relationship and finds something in them. And then there's also the layer of her seeing in him what's in her husband but she hasn't seen for a long time.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And the way that they played these scenes, it's really, really emotional because it's so real. Even the progress from the first scene with the Audi.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Where you know, she I think is like a stand up partner in a relationship, says, hey, I kissed this guy. And you know, she's like, she's just trying to be honest.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Because I think she wants to connect with him.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And of course Audi, Dylan can't take that because he's feeling like, great, my wife kissed another guy.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

That's great. That makes me feel great. Maybe I'll go quit. And then to like the flip side, to see Zach have to play the guy who's just so in love with her, who just, you know, why wasn't he happy for us? And then he has his little ring that he's made out of, you know, from mdr and just hats off to Zach and Merritt playing that scene. And UTA Brescowitz who directed the scene, just, you know, those aren't easy to do, to have to do a proposal out of nowhere. But it's that desperation, that yearning of just wanting, you know, it's this like the trajectory of where Dylan started out in season one to this guy who just has been exposed to the feeling of love and realizing that everything else just pales in comparison.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Yeah. Zack is unbelievable in this. And Merritt as well, on the receiving end of this proposal that she knows is doomed. And that Audi conversation in the kitchen is fascinating for the reasons that you said. Like, there's nowhere else where this conversation could take place except on the show in this particular circumstance. And the fact that his reaction is the same as his Audi's reaction, which is, is I'm gonna quit. Like they both have the same, both have the same reaction instinct for vastly different reasons.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I mean, he's heartbroken. He's kind of where Irving was in episode 201.

[Adam Scott]

Totally.

[Ben Stiller]

Irving wanted to leave. And then the scene after in the kitchen with Heli, where, in a way, we're seeing Milchick's plan from episode 201, from the first episode of the season paying off, and that his plan was to split them up. Right. To be divisive and to create tension amongst the group. And, you know, you see how hurt he is and how mean he is to Helly in that scene because he's so hurt. So it's really, in a way, paid off for Milchick.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. He hits her where it hurts the most, which is. Mark couldn't tell that.

[Ben Stiller]

Mark couldn't tell. Right. I think it's a lot that kind of is coming to a head here. Obviously, it's the penultimate episode, so there's a lot of storylines that are really starting to ratchet up. And then, of course, there's Irving and Burt.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

The other sort of tragic relationship in the season, Bert and Irving. You know, after episode six, where you start to feel that there is this connection between the two of them, even though they're their outies.

[Adam Scott]

Yep.

[Ben Stiller]

You know, there's something there that has come through. But also, we learn in this episode that Burt is, in fact, a Lumen operative and has done things, you know, we don't know what. But he says he's taken people places and.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, he says he's just a driver.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, he says he's just a driver. But, you know that scene when Irving comes home and finds Burt there waiting for him? That's the amazing flip side of Christopher Walken, who can go from so warm to so cold to so warm again.

[Adam Scott]

And foreboding to affectionate.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

In like, the same sentence.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And he gets him a. A ticket. A ticket in the train station, a ticket out of town, and says they can never see each other again.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Let's listen to that scene. I've never been loved before. Not really. No, you have. How does it feel? I don't know. Don't you want to know how it felt? It's not possible. Bert, it's okay. Just go. I've never had this. I know. My whole life. I know. I want to. I want to have it. Laughing I'm ready.

[Adam Scott]

These two are just heartbreaking. And you find out about Irving here that he's never been in love before. He's never had this romantic love in his life. That's what he's Saying to him, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And then Bert says, well, now you have. How do you feel? And the double meaning of, I don't know, because he really doesn't know, but yet he kind of does. I mean, just listening to that scene, it's always interesting to me on podcast to listen to these scenes because they have a different feeling. You hear the music, you hear the sound effects, the atmosphere. But for me, listening to that scene, I'm just taken by that could be. I mean, Chris Walken and John Turturro, what they do with their voices as actors, that could be a radio play.

[Adam Scott]

Totally.

[Ben Stiller]

You're getting every nuance just in the intonation of their voices. And it's so beautiful to listen to. And, yeah, the Burden Irving love story is very. It's sad. It was so beautiful on the inside. And they're ripped apart from each other. And. And I think the fact that Bert decides to do this for him. It's clear that Bert has wrestled with the things he's done in his life.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

And he and Fields have talked about that, and that was almost the purpose of him being severed, was to try to find redemption somehow. Right.

[Adam Scott]

To find, like, the innocence in himself.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yeah. So maybe, I don't know, it's. You know, he's doing something very beautiful because. And he doesn't have to do it, but maybe part of that is, you know, what's seeped through from the severed side.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. I mean, I think these guys have a love for each other. Whether they both consciously can grasp it or not, it's there.

[Ben Stiller]

And the reality is, Bert says we can't have this because he knows, I think, the reality of what that would mean with Lumen, and yet he makes this move to save this guy.

[Adam Scott]

It's interesting how the reach of this company and what it does, it corrupted their relationship on the inside. I mean, it ended their relationship on the inside just as it was starting to bloom. And then on the outside, it's just completely seeping into both of their lives and corrupting anything that may be between them.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I would say also just that scene between Burt and Irving at that train station. We just were looking for a really interesting train station, and we found it up in Utica, New York.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, cool.

[Ben Stiller]

So we all went up to Utica for a couple of days to film that scene. And I was talking to Chris when we were up there, and he said, yeah, I was here when I was in the circus as a kid.

[Adam Scott]

Really?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. He was literally a circus performer as a kid, in addition to being A child actor, and they played Utica.

[Adam Scott]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Ben Stiller]

Incredible showbiz history that Chris has, but I think it's, you know, kind of this beautiful sort of bittersweet ending that we intercut with Ms. Wong getting picked up by the shuttle bus and with Dylan going to the elevator to basically say what could possibly be goodbye because he's put in his resignation request. So everything is leading to this, you know, the ending of the episode. So Mark and Devon get out to this meeting point out in the middle of nowhere, and we finally have this sort of, like, western kind of standoff between.

[Adam Scott]

It is sort of like that. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

It's cool. It is. Well, you know, it felt pretty momentous, right, that this is like. I mean, you have finally decided you need to go to her, you need her help.

[Adam Scott]

I mean, Devon's decided. Mark seems pretty skeptical. I mean, the only time Mark's seen her is outside his house when he yelled at her, and she almost ran him over. I think he's just doesn't trust her at all. Like, what good can come from this? Basically.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, but you're also. You have no other option at this point.

[Adam Scott]

No. Yeah, you're right.

[Ben Stiller]

You're forced to have to trust her.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And of course, there's no basis in trust. And we should listen to that scene where you guys first talk, because you can hear it in your voice. Hello, Mark. How are you?

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God. So good. My wife's being held prisoner at Lumen, and I just got brain surgery in my basement. How have you been?

[Ben Stiller]

We're allies now. There's no need to.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, we're allies now? We're not neighbors anymore. Sorry, I. I just. I guess I'm confused.

[Ben Stiller]

Can you.

[Gretchen]

This birthing cabin, you can take us there, right?

[Ben Stiller]

So we can talk to hisany. Not yet. Even under the COVID of dark, it's perilous. We wait for night.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, it's perilous. Okay.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay. Yep.

[Gretchen]

You want us to wait until the evening?

[Ben Stiller]

We don't even know if he's completed the file yet. I assume. No.

[Adam Scott]

What file?

[Ben Stiller]

Cold Harbor. You're so funny in that scene. The way that you're like, oh, yeah, I'm doing great. I just had a brain surgery. I mean, to me, that's also, like, sort of indicative of what the tone of the show is that we're Are trying to go forward. She's sort of, like, speaking like she's in some sort of spooky serious movie, and you and Devon are like, okay, so cover of night. Okay, great. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, you know, I feel like you guys are kind of being the audience and Cobell is still being Cobell.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But yet sometimes there's funny stuff that comes from Cobell too. Totally. That's not necessarily self referential, but when she talks about Jasmine, like Frost dandruff shampoo or something like that. And it's so. It's like people take turns kind of, you know, poking a hole in the reality of the heaviness.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

Which is, you know, I think, something you as an actor are uniquely good at. And Jen too. The way Jen is just saying, like, come on.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. She's like, okay, come on.

[Ben Stiller]

Just great.

[Adam Scott]

All right. So great.

[Ben Stiller]

You're going to be super dramatic. Great. But we need to deal with this. And you ultimately have to call in. Right. You have to call in to Milchick and say, I'm not gonna come in today. And then we see Milchick decides to let you have a pass.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, he just sort of lets it go. And I think it's really interesting. Cause I think he's emboldened to loosen the reins.

[Ben Stiller]

Right, exactly. But there is a huge pressure to get him in because this is the momentous day and it's not gonna happen the way it's supposed to happen if he doesn't come in. So he's really rebuking his marching orders. And, you know, it's that moment where he kind of looks at the painting.

[Adam Scott]

On the wall and the painting is of a glacier.

[Ben Stiller]

Iceberg. Yeah, it's like an iceberg. It's weirdly too small for the wall. When he redecorated Cobell's office, he put in a cool chair, new light, little bar, record player situation too.

[Adam Scott]

You have his own little music dance experiences in there.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, sure. And so, yeah, so we're like left then with you saying, okay, let's go, let's do it. You get in the back of the truck now, like Cobell did in episode 208. And you go out to the birthing cabin. She has to say the password to the guard at the gate, which is.

[Adam Scott]

This is one of James.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So we have Devon pretending to be one of James, which is like, what is that?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I know, it's crazy.

[Ben Stiller]

And then all of a sudden we're shifted into any marks reality as you walk into the birthing cabin. And now we're like in your sort of disoriented state of like, what's going on here? And you're brought upstairs to meet Cobell. And we're left with, I guess, another little mini cliffhanger for the finale.

[Adam Scott]

It's interesting.

[Ben Stiller]

What do you think about all the cliffhangers on the show, Adam?

[Adam Scott]

Well, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts just about cliffs, but as far as cliffhangers go, you know, I love a cliffhanger. What do you think about the cliffhangers?

[Ben Stiller]

No, I just think it's fun.

[Adam Scott]

Like, I think it's a blast.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, it's a totally different experience watching the cliffhangers when the show is playing once a week than when it's binged.

[Adam Scott]

When it's binged. There's no real point to a cliffhanger, is there?

[Ben Stiller]

Except to get people to watch the next episode.

[Adam Scott]

Okay. No, you're right.

[Ben Stiller]

But what cliffhangers are, by the way. Yeah, the word cliffhanger is, I'm just guessing, is somebody hanging off a cliff in like an old serial western, probably to go, what's going to happen next?

[Adam Scott]

They want everybody to come back and pay to watch the next one a week later.

[Ben Stiller]

Is this the most obvious conversation?

[Adam Scott]

Probably.

[Ben Stiller]

But what I think is kind of interesting is the week to week of it, when the show's running the first time, a cliffhanger like that can be much more frustrating than when you're binging, which is just like, oh, good, I gotta watch the next one. Maybe you're frustrated cause you don't have time or whatever. But there's a different visceral reaction that the fans have.

[Adam Scott]

I love it. I love that it spurs conversation. And I love it as an audience member too. I love a cliffhanger to kind of agonize over.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. And hopefully this one has sort of teed up where we're headed for the final episode. I think it has the ultimate episode. Now, is ultimate what you would say in regards to penultimate? Because I don't think you say ultimate. Ultimate means the best, right?

[Adam Scott]

Well, I think. I think penultimate certainly means that the next one has to be the ultimate, because pen, the Latin root of pen is what follows definitely is. So penultimate means the. No, I just made that.

[Ben Stiller]

I thought. Okay, so we've just gotten word from our producer that ultimate means being or happening at the end of a process. Final.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, interesting.

[Ben Stiller]

Which makes sense. But I've always thought of ultimate as the best. Like the one.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, should we listen to Zach's predictions?

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man. Yeah, let's do it for the next episode.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay, this is it. Final prediction.

[Adam Scott]

Now, is this his final prediction or is he gonna predict next week what happens in Season three, if there is a season three.

[Ben Stiller]

I think this is his penultimate prediction, and next week will be his ultimate prediction for season three.

[Adam Scott]

I think you're right.

[Sydney Cole Alexander]

Hi, Adam. Hi, Ben. You know what I always say, A, B are the first two letters of the Alphabet, and you're the first two people I think of when I think about doing this podcast. Anyway, here we are, back to talk about my predictions for the next episode of Severance. Now, my predictions so far, I've been trying to base them off of what's happening in the episode, and I haven't really been nailing it. But this show is so detailed. It's so complex. There are so many things going on. I have a feeling I need to be looking behind that. So next time on Severance. Here we have episode nine, which is the pen ultimate episode of the season, and I think you're trying to tell us something. Which is the next episode of the season is going to be all about pens. I think the Innies are gonna pause what they're doing. Everyone's gonna go to the supply closet, and they're gonna test out every pen in there until they find the best one. That's right. We got ourselves a pen episode. I hope you all like it. I know you will. And make sure to contact Ben, contact Adam, Let them know what's your favorite brand of pen and what would you write with it if you had to write something but only had 10 seconds.

[Adam Scott]

What?

[Ben Stiller]

Wow. We're totally. That makes no sense. But we are totally in sync on the pen thing, the penultimate. I think if you did a word cloud of this episode, penultimate would be the biggest word in the word cloud.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

And I feel like Zach and I actually are in sync on the pen.

[Adam Scott]

The pen idea, and this will be the ultimate pen episode.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna miss Zach's predictions because they're all so wrong.

[Adam Scott]

Me too. And I feel like I'm gonna want him to start predicting things in my life.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It's like he's so sweet and endearing and totally off base but, like, so committed to it.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. All right, that's it for this episode. The severance podcast with Ben and Adam will be back next week to talk about season two, episode 10, the finale. It's almost here.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my goodness. It's almost over.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ben Stiller]

But it's not over yet. So please stream every episode of Severance on Apple tv, with new episodes coming out every Friday for one more week.

[Adam Scott]

And then make sure you're listening to our podcast which drops right after the episode airs. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions and Great Scott Productions.

[Ben Stiller]

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Bari Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Gabrielle Lewis, Jenna Weisberman and Leah Rees Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen, Ben Goldberg and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basel. We had additional engineering from Javi Krustas and Davey Sumner.

[Adam Scott]

Show clips are courtesy of fifth season music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney.

[Ben Stiller]

And Hilary Schuth and the team at Red John Lesher, Carolina Pesachov, John Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderruten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker and Oliver Agar.

[Adam Scott]

Annette Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin and Christy Smith. At Rise Management we had additional production.

[Ben Stiller]

Help from Kristen Torres and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

I'm Adam Scott.

[Ben Stiller]

Thanks for listening.

[Adam Scott]

Thank.