S2EP1: Hello Ms. Cobel (with Tramell Tillman)

Summary

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott: Season 2, Episode 1 – "Hello Ms. Cobel" (with Tramell Tillman)

Overview

In the premiere episode of Season 2, titled "Hello Ms. Cobel," Ben Stiller and Adam Scott delve into the latest developments of the Emmy- and Peabody Award-winning TV show Severance. This episode offers an in-depth, behind-the-scenes exploration of the new season’s first episode, featuring special insights from Tramell Tillman, who portrays the enigmatic Mr. Milchick. The hosts also introduce exciting new segments and engage with fans through their newly launched hotline.

Season 2 Premiere Breakdown: "Hello Ms. Cobel"

Ben Stiller and Adam Scott kick off the discussion by reflecting on the anticipation surrounding the season's return. Ben shares his thoughts on maintaining energy and raising the stakes after a significant cliffhanger from Season 1:

Ben Stiller [05:09]: "We want to come back with some energy."

Adam echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the collaborative effort in crafting the new episode:

Adam Scott [05:32]: "It was a great collaboration between Jessica Lee Gagne, Jeremy Hindle, and the entire production team."

The hosts dissect key scenes from the episode, particularly the intense hallway sequence where Mark attempts to locate his wife, Audi:

Ben Stiller [06:16]: "Let's tell everybody this is gonna be a little bit more jacked up, a little more energy, a little more. The stakes are a little bit higher."

They discuss the intricate production logistics involved in filming complex scenes, highlighting the challenges and creative solutions the team employed:

Ben Stiller [07:52]: "We shot those 10 different pieces over a period of what would you say, five months?"

Adam adds a humorous take on the episode’s mathematical breakdown of productivity improvements:

Adam Scott [01:04]: "So that would equal out, like, if we're playing with, like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah, that's the improvement."

Interview with Tramell Tillman: Portraying Mr. Milchick

A significant portion of the episode features an engaging interview with Tramell Tillman, who discusses his portrayal of Mr. Milchick. Tramell delves into the complexity of his character, exploring the ethical ambiguities and personal motivations that drive Mr. Milchick's actions within Lumen Industries.

Tramell Tillman [36:24]: "For me, finding a way in was really finding depth and connection with the Inners. And as long as I can get some idea of trust with them, if I can get them to play along, I'm winning."

Tramell shares his journey as an actor, transitioning from a shy individual to a dynamic performer, and how his background influenced his role:

Tramell Tillman [38:24]: "I grew up in the church in Landover, Maryland... Something just connected for me. I had one line in one direction. I was supposed to say hi and sit on the couch. And when I did, something just lit in me and I said, this is amazing. This is so much fun."

The discussion touches on the unique challenges Tramell faced while filming intense scenes, including his first day on set:

Tramell Tillman [60:05]: "I had to walk over the wrong ladder, but make it look like I was not walking through the wrong ladder. Of course, it was choreographed in such a way that I had to lead, but stay with John, even though he's behind me."

Tramell also reflects on the depth of his character’s motivations and the subtle nuances that make Mr. Milchick both intimidating and relatable:

Tramell Tillman [44:33]: "And so for me, finding a way in was really finding depth and connection with the Innies... How does Milchick buy into that? There's a doctrine, there's a philosophy, there's a history that he really attaches himself to that empowers him in some way."

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Ben and Adam provide listeners with a glimpse into the technical aspects of producing Severance. They discuss the use of pre-visualization (previs) in planning complex scenes and the meticulous coordination required among the cinematography, production design, and visual effects teams:

Ben Stiller [09:30]: "It's like, yeah, this sort of, like, bad animation that then you work off of as a template and then figure out how you do the different parts of the shots."

Tramell shares anecdotes about working with seasoned actors like John Turturro and the camaraderie on set that helps navigate the demanding filming schedule:

Tramell Tillman [60:37]: "And Jon got wind of my frazzle, and he said, just relax, just breathe. You got it?"

New Segments and Fan Engagement

The hosts introduce a new segment where Zach Cherry, who plays Dylan, will offer his predictions for upcoming episodes. They also announce a hotline [phone]) where fans can submit questions, some of which may be featured and answered on future podcast episodes.

Adam Scott [03:27]: "We've got a brand new segment for season two. At the end of every episode, Zack Cherry is gonna give us his own predictions for what happens in the following week's episode."

Concluding Thoughts and Teasers

As the episode wraps up, Ben and Adam reflect on the ongoing mysteries of Severance, teasing future discussions with creator Dan Erickson and anticipated plot developments. They maintain a balance of humor and intrigue, encouraging listeners to stay tuned for more in-depth analyses and exclusive content.

Ben Stiller [73:19]: "If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Audysee app, or your other podcast platform of choice."

Key Takeaways

• Character Development: Tramell Tillman provides a deep dive into Mr. Milchick’s complex character, highlighting his ethical struggles and personal motivations within Lumen Industries.

• Production Challenges: The hosts discuss the elaborate planning and coordination required to film intricate scenes, emphasizing the collaborative effort of the entire production team.

• Fan Interaction: Introduction of new podcast segments and the hotline fosters a stronger connection with the fanbase, enhancing the overall engagement experience.

• Future Episodes: Teasers about upcoming discussions and predictions keep listeners eagerly anticipating the unfolding of Season 2’s storyline.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Stiller [06:16]: "Let's tell everybody this is gonna be a little bit more jacked up, a little more energy, a little more. The stakes are a little bit higher."

• Adam Scott [05:32]: "It was a great collaboration between Jessica Lee Gagne, Jeremy Hindle, and the entire production team."

• Tramell Tillman [36:24]: "For me, finding a way in was really finding depth and connection with the Inners."

• Ben Stiller [09:30]: "This is like bad animation that then you work off as a template."

This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the Season 2 premiere episode of The Severance Podcast, offering insights into the show's progression, character intricacies, and the collaborative spirit of its creators and cast. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the podcast, this overview provides a comprehensive understanding of what to expect in the exciting new season of Severance.

Transcript

[Ben Stiller]

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by State Farm. Learn [e-mail] severance like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey, Adam.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah?

[Ben Stiller]

Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately?

[Adam Scott]

I don't know. I think it's. It's okay.

[Ben Stiller]

I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose confluence by Atlassian.

[Ben Stiller]

Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and. And deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.

[Adam Scott]

So that would equal out, like, if we're playing with, like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah, that's the improvement.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

[Adam Scott]

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.

[Ben Stiller]

So why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all set, knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian.com confluence that's a T L a S S I-a n.com C-O-N-F L U-E-N C e.

[Adam Scott]

Hey everybody, before we get started, we just want to say a word about the terrible tragedy in Los Angeles and the fires that have been wreaking havoc all over, and just say that our thoughts and our hearts go out those affected.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, and I know so many people who've been affected and their lives have been turned upside down. I know, you know, people, Adam, and just, you know, sending a lot of love and support to people. And we're going to have a link in the show notes too, if you want to have somewhere that you can help support the relief efforts. And just also a huge thanks to the first responders, the firefighters, all the people who have been working so hard to put an end to what's going on there. Our hearts are with you.

[Adam Scott]

We're sending our love and support to our friends, family, and listeners in Los Angeles.

[Tramell Tillman]

This is Tramell Tillman or Mr. Milchick, your funky DJ, here on the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam.

[Ben Stiller]

Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

I'm Adam Scott, and this is the.

[Ben Stiller]

Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance.

[Adam Scott]

And today, the wa is over. It's the moment we've all been waiting for. It's time to discuss the season two premiere.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. Finally, here we are. Not only that, but we got some new perks for the listeners this season. We couldn't send everybody finger traps, but we did open up our very own hotline. You can call the telephone post box of Lumen Industries severed floor at 212-830-3816. That's 212-830-3816. Leave us a message with a question, and we might just answer it on the air.

[Adam Scott]

And we've got a brand new segment for season two. At the end of every episode, Zack Cherry is gonna give us his own predictions for what happens in the following week's episode.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. This is just sort of a wild card because, I mean, who knows where Zack's coming from?

[Adam Scott]

And Zack, you know, we often go to Zack because we know he's a clairvoyant.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. He definitely has a record of being able to predict things in the future. You know, I just want to make sure that he knows we're talking about Severance, not Fallout or any of the other shows that he does.

[Adam Scott]

37 shows he's on. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay, so here's what we're going to do. In this episode, you and I are going to talk about the premiere episode, which is titled hello, Ms. Cobell, which was written by series creator Dan Erickson and directed by me.

[Adam Scott]

And anything from the episode is fair game for us to discuss. So consider this your spoiler warning. Make sure to watch the first episode of the second season before listening to this.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, Adam, you should do that, too.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I need to get on that.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And then later in the episode, we're gonna be joined by Tramell Tillman.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

Who plays Mr. Milchick. I mean, it's Tramell Tillman.

[Adam Scott]

Incredible.

[Ben Stiller]

Come on. I think you could consider him a breakout character.

[Adam Scott]

100%. He's amazing. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And he'll answer our questions. I have a lot of questions for him. And also, he's gonna answer your questions. You, the listener. Cause we have the hotline, so that's gonna be fun, too.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. And then we're gonna hear what Zach has to say about this episode's cliffhanger and what he thinks will go down in episode two. Sound good?

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. I'm looking forward to that.

[Adam Scott]

Me too.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Okay. Should we just dig into the premiere here?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I mean. And oh, my goodness, here we are talking about the premiere finally. I mean, I have to say I thought about it a lot and just, you know, thinking about how do you come back after, you know, three years away, the expectation, the cliffhanger, you know, needless to say, we felt there was like, you know, we want to come back with some energy.

[Adam Scott]

Yes. And you had asked me early on, what would you do if this happened to you?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yeah. That was like. I think it's usually the best place to start when you're trying to figure out what's the logical thing to show or do in a story. It's like, well, what would really happen? Right. And okay, Innie Mark has just seen this picture of Ms. Casey, and he realizes that she's alive and she's his Audi's wife. And then all of a sudden, he's back in the elevator. And I asked you, what would you do, Adam?

[Adam Scott]

And my first kind of knee jerk reaction was I would just start running and trying to find her. I would just run towards the wellness center.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. And so that for me was like, oh, great, we can do another running in the hallway scene, because we haven't done that before.

[Tramell Tillman]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And it was actually really fun to think about because I felt like, oh, this could be a nice sort of mirror to season one's first scene in mdr, when we first see you come off the elevator and you walk through all the hallways to get to mdr.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And so I thought, okay, let's tell everybody this is gonna be, like, a little bit more jacked up, a little more energy, a little more. The stakes are a little bit higher, and let's do this in a way that we haven't seen before, hopefully.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And it was incredible to kind of watch. Gradually, over time, you build the sequence out from that conversation to what it eventually became. But you were really kind of building it in your mind and with your team over a period of time. And it just kept growing and getting more detailed and intricate and really told its own little story here, much to.

[Ben Stiller]

The consternation of our scheduling team.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

And, you know, but that's also, I think what you have to do when you're thinking about these things is like, what are these moments that we're, you know, three years down the line or whatever it's gonna be. You know, we didn't think it would be three years, by the way, when we did it. But, you know, what is gonna be exciting to see and how do we figure that out? So it was a great collaboration between, of course, Jessica Lee Gagne, our cinematographer, and Jeremy Hindle, our production designer, and our gaffer and our grip and all of the people on the camera team to figure out our visual effects people to figure how to do these different shots. That would all feel like one shot. And I think there are about 10 different pieces in it.

[Adam Scott]

And we shot those 10 different pieces over a period of what would you say, five months?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And it was only because we were shooting other things and we realized that we were kind of trying to jam this into our schedule. So something that on the page was maybe half a page or three quarters of a page, if that, saying that, like, Mark runs through different hallways to get to the Wellness ended up being probably 10 different pieces where each one had a different need in terms of what had to be done with the set. Like, there's one where we had to do it completely with green screen and have you on a treadmill and have a motion control camera come around in front of you and do all this stuff. And then there was one where we had to pull one of the walls out. And we were using this machine called a bolt arm. That's a motion control robot arm that the camera is on that you can program in, moves to. And so that thing takes up a lot of space. So our normal sort of layout of all the hallways had to get sort of torn up in certain. And so then when you're doing that, you can't shoot other scenes in the hallways. So we had to schedule it at times when maybe you guys would be shooting a scene in a different set.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And that was a lot of logistics. And our ad team and everybody on the show kind of got, I think, really got into it. It just started out with some storyboards that went into what we call a previs, which is a computer animation of the shot that has the actual sort of size of the lenses. And, you know, it's basically like, yeah, this sort of, like, bad animation that then you work off of as a template and then figure out how you do the different parts of the shots based on what that is.

[Adam Scott]

I remember you showing me the previs and just being like, oh, wow, this is gonna be a lot of running. And it was. And now, kind of few years later, people are seeing this sequence now and asking me if I trained to do this sequence. And of course I should have trained.

[Ben Stiller]

You should do this. You should just say yes.

[Adam Scott]

No, I should.

[Ben Stiller]

Nobody knows.

[Adam Scott]

But you know what? The training was doing it because I got into good shape from doing all of this running over and over again.

[Ben Stiller]

You should have said you trained by watching Tom Cruise run in, which is.

[Adam Scott]

Actually what I did.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay. That is the best way to do it.

[Adam Scott]

It is, yeah. Anyone that wants to train for running of any kind, just watch Tom Cruise.

[Ben Stiller]

Because then he does all the work. That's right. You can just. Right.

[Adam Scott]

He's doing it for the rest of us.

[Ben Stiller]

And then we picked a song that's, you know, I think, like, really kind of fun and jazzy and has the vibe of the sort of, you know, of the tone of the music that we have when we're down at MDR sometimes. And that's by the great Les McCann. It's a song called Burning Coal that he. I think he recorded it in, like, 1968 or 69. And he actually just passed away last year.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, he did?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. He was a jazz great. And so it was really fun to then work with Jeff Richmond, our editor, in terms of figuring out the edit and the timing for the song, and with our music editor to really figure out how to make that track work. And then bringing in Teddy Shapiro's score in the back half of the scene to kind of, like, transition into the sort of, you know, thrillery and ominous vibe that it ends when you finally get to the wellness area and it's been sort of disappeared.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it's just sort of erased. You see the faint outline of Wellness center on the wall, which my immediate instinct when I saw that was that in and of itself is probably a mind game of some sort.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Being able to still see it a little bit.

[Ben Stiller]

And that was a Jeremy Hindle idea, too, to, like, open the door. Cause I think Dan had written it that they were boarded up. And then Jeremy Hindle show me a rendering one day where it was just sort of the outline of the doors. I was like, oh, this is so weird. And then I wanted to make sure that we had the outline of where the painting was that Burton Irving looked at.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

And kind of do like a How the Grinch Stole Christmas sort of like, you know, the pictures are off the wall and there's just sort of like a hook hanging there.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

That was in my image, but, you know, like, sort of the outline of the dust where the picture was. Um. And, yeah, that was really. That was really challenging for you and challenging for everybody, but we.

[Adam Scott]

It was fun.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And it's really fun to. Fun to watch.

[Adam Scott]

It was our own little, like, side project while making the show.

[Ben Stiller]

Exactly.

[Adam Scott]

And when we finished it, we had our own little rap, you know.

[Ben Stiller]

That's right. It was.

[Adam Scott]

It was really, really fun.

[Ben Stiller]

So at the end of that whole run.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You discover this new team in mdr.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

These three strangers who are played by Alia Shawkat, Bob Balaban, and Stefano Carinante, who's a wonderful Italian actor.

[Adam Scott]

So great. What a cool group of people, too. And the crazy thing was, this is the first thing we shot. So when I came back to work on severance, it felt like I was just working with a new cast. Like, John, Zach and Brit hadn't started yet. And so the first. What was it, two weeks that we worked with this group of people.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Which was kind of mirroring what was going on in the scene. And for me, it was a thrill to work with Bob Balaban, who I've known for a number of years, but is just a real acting legend. I mean, he's been in so many great films. Amazing character actor going all the way back to Midnight Cowboy. Let's play a little bit of that clip where you talk to him when you're trying to figure out what's going on.

[Adam Scott]

Great.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

We showed up about an hour before you did. It's a little cramped compared to our old mdr, but I love the green carpet.

[Ben Stiller]

Ours was a creme brulee, and the keyboards were puce. They were purple. No, they were puce.

[Adam Scott]

I know, because it makes me nauseous and I hate sweets.

[Ben Stiller]

Speaking of which, how much do we.

[Adam Scott]

See of that Mr. Milkshake? Milkshake.

[Ben Stiller]

What?

[Adam Scott]

It's milkshake. That milkshake. And I don't know, I love how Bob and Elia have this bickering relationship. They've obviously been stuck together for a while.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. They definitely don't love each other. What else I also love here is just what we learn about these other branches. Supposedly that, you know, if whoever these people are, the Italian guy is talking about how that they had. They didn't have an elevator, they had ropes. Yes, right.

[Adam Scott]

For in the perpetuity wing, instead of the. The, like, wax figures, they had brooms and robes representing the Kir family.

[Ben Stiller]

They were very poor. Yeah, it was a poor branch.

[Adam Scott]

But at Alia's perpetuity wing, they had animatronic figures.

[Ben Stiller]

Right, Exactly. Yeah. So it's these little Things that, you know, are they real? Are they not? And they seem real to these. And it's. You know, I love the details that Dan puts in there. And to me also, it was just very funny, this sort of banter that's going on between them. It's sort of a bizarro world alt banter that's happening that happens in the other cubicles that we, you know, don't follow in the show.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. And you see that they, too, are micro focused in on really frivolous, stupid stuff. It's their whole life. They're talking about the carpet and the keyboards and all these weird things that are huge parts of their life.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah. And it's just. It's that interesting thing, almost like with people, you know, versus people. You don't know where you could be in the same sort of, you know, familiar setting with people. But when it's different people, it just feels so weird. And you feel that with Mark, it's like, oh, he's just in another. It just feels. It's almost more lonely.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

And then Aaliyah takes you to the closet, and we learn that the closet has been basically boarded up and turned into just sort of like a cabinet.

[Adam Scott]

Which is where they hatched all of their plans. So they're just sort of erasing everything that happened.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah. We're getting the feeling that Lumen has made some changes, but they're not really talking about it.

[Adam Scott]

And then we meet someone named Ms. Wong.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. Ms. Wong.

[Adam Scott]

The great Sarah Bach.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. What a wonderful young actress. Sarah came in and read for the show, and she was so good and so centered and inscrutable, and yet, you know, much the way I feel with Tramiel Tillman, who's such a warm guy. And we're gonna be talking to him in a little bit. But, you know, his Milchick character is so cold, and so it's. You know, there's life there, and of course, there's, you know, something underneath it that was what makes it so interesting. But Sarah's able to do that also. And I found it fascinating to watch her because she seems so mature. And she was only 15, I think, or 16 when we started shooting.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

And she seems to be now coming to do the Ball Game with you, which is what Milchick did in the first season.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. Her own version of it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And she's got, like, a smaller little red ball, and you're doing it at the table, and again, it's with these people. These, you know, this alternate reality where you do get the sense of what their whole sort of dynamic is and we also get the sense that Ms. Wong, you know, is gonna be a formidable authority figure for you.

[Adam Scott]

She is very much in charge and does not want anyone to mess with her or knock her or her game off balance. And Mark makes a decision pretty quickly that he doesn't really want to share anything with these people or with her.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, there's this moment after the introductions where Mark W. Asks her a very pertinent question. Yeah, Mark W. Why are you a child? Because of when I was born.

[Adam Scott]

So when we shot this I immediately just thought this is going to be a classic severance moment. And line like it was just so funny. Both Bob's delivery of the question and then Sarah's just withering deadpan of her response is just so great. It's those great moments where you just feel so lucky to be on a show. Okay, let's take a quick break. But don't worry, unlike the wellness center, we will be right back. In this episode, Mark is having trouble going back to Luma, knowing now about his Audi's life. Reintegration and getting settled into this new normal are not easy. You probably don't have a chip in your head so I bet it sends shivers down your spine to start thinking about working with a new team, report to new management or to get your own insurance. But State Farm is here to help. Your local agent is there to assist you as you navigate the process and help explore, explain your options so you choose what fits for you. Clearly Mark S works best with his old team. They're like family. But eventually it's time to get severed from your parents insurance policy. That's why State Farm is here to serve you. Not here. Whether you prefer in person, over the phone, on statefarm.com or through the app, your agent is there to help you make it a seamless transition into into your new insurance reality. Learn how an agent can help you get out of your parents insurance and into your own [e-mail] severance like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Ben Stiller]

For the past three seasons of Gone south we've covered one story per season. We tried to figure out who killed Margaret Coon. She told me, I'm going to kill you. I said well do it bitch. Go ahead and do it. We delved into the violent world of the Dixie Mafia.

[Adam Scott]

I'm an outlaw and I was a thief. But I'm far from being the psychotic nutcase that I've been made out to be.

[Ben Stiller]

And we tracked a serial killer in Laredo, Texas.

[Adam Scott]

Just turn around. Please turn around. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Ben Stiller]

Now Gone south is back for a fourth season, but this time we're doing things a little differently. So in gone South Season 4, we'll be bringing you new stories every week with no end in sight. I'm Jed Lipinski. Welcome back to Gone south, an Odyssey original podcast. Listen and follow now on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts for new episodes every week.

[Zach Cherry]

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[Ben Stiller]

Okay, so eventually you sort of force the hand of Mr. Milchick and say that you want the team back and we think you're going to get fired. We don't know what's happening. He shoves you in the elevator. We don't know. And we're in your point of view. And by the way, this is the only time that we have an episode where it's all in he.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And this was something we had never done before. So we're staying in Mark's point of view the whole time. So we did this thing where you sever transition up and then you sever transition back down, which was, we call it the Zolli, the in and out. You know, zooming in, dollying out or dollying in, zooming out.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And we called it a Double zolly for this one, because we had the first transition where you would have come out of the elevator, but then we stayed with you with any mark's consciousness and had you sever back in. So we were feeling what any mark would feel.

[Adam Scott]

So we actually shot it without cutting. We actually shot me going innie to Audi and then back to Innie.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. And you had to do that, which, you know, at this point you've perfected the Xali transition for the acting part of it, which I've always said is the most important part of it, is what you're doing as an actor. But you had to go from innie to outie to innie and then back.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

And so it was the camera going in and out, in and out. It was something we'd never done. And it was. It was. It was fun and weird. And then all of a sudden we have this sort of like, little sequence of you kind of, you know, going to work, leaving, going to work, coming to work, leaving. And sort of like we get the monotony of it from your point of view, the innie point of view.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. We get to experience what it's actually like as an innie to leave and come back to work.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

Which is interesting.

[Ben Stiller]

And you try to trick Milchick saying that Mark W, Bob Balaban's character, has, you know, tried to. Basically has written a note that you wrote and it gets found out. And then you try to get in touch and that doesn't work. And all of a sudden we think you're gonna be fired. And the elevator opens and you see that there's a new painting on the wall that was never there. That's a very ominous sort of mural of four. It seems like these four prisoners buried up to their heads in the sand with some sort of an army.

[Adam Scott]

And Kir Egan is there.

[Ben Stiller]

Kir Egan is there exactly. In charge with a sword. Yes. Yes. It's very daunting, the picture.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And as you're taking that in, all of a sudden the door opens. Dylan comes back.

[Adam Scott]

Dylan.

[Ben Stiller]

And then Irving comes back, and then Helly comes back and you're all together again for the first time.

[Adam Scott]

So my question is, the grabbing and forcing the hand of Milchick and getting in touch with the board seems to have had an effect of some sort, because it's after that that everybody comes back.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. We don't know what happened.

[Adam Scott]

No.

[Ben Stiller]

And Enie, Mark doesn't know what happened, but he wasn't fired. He's back and all of a sudden his team is back and the other people are gone.

[Adam Scott]

So something may have struck a chord. Who knows?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, who knows? Who knows what happened? And then Ms. Wong shows up in MDR and says, we're going to the break room.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

Everybody's going to the break room.

[Adam Scott]

Which is scary, obviously, for these people.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. And then we see the new break room has been redone as like a.

[Adam Scott]

Rec room of sorts.

[Ben Stiller]

It's a very. Yeah, it's got some cool furniture.

[Adam Scott]

It's some awesome posters.

[Ben Stiller]

Has posters. It's brighter. There's a big screen video projector.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it's like one of the. It's like one of those video projector screens you see in rec rooms in like the late 80s, early 90s.

[Ben Stiller]

And there's like a weird game on the wall that we don't quite know what that is.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

That's right. And then Milchick is like, very, very nice and basically says, hey, take a look at this. And it's sort of a video that's been produced to kind of explain to you what happened.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it's like a welcome video, but also sort of a catch up.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And it happens to have been done as an animated entertainment for you.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. So it's claymation.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, it's not. Technically, it's not claymation. I think that's your Parks and Reclaimation.

[Adam Scott]

What is it exactly?

[Ben Stiller]

Which by the way, is one of the classic episodes of all time. Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

You've always loved the claymation with a.

[Ben Stiller]

Stand in the place where you are like a second and a half.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. And it took so long to make that.

[Ben Stiller]

Anyway. So, yeah, we thought it would be interesting. And apparently Lumen thought it'd be interesting to do this video in a way that turns the MDR refiners into these little puppets. That was stop motion puppetry. And it was done with a guy named Duke Johnson, who's a brilliant animator, who did Animalisa with Charlie Kaufman and his Starburns studio. And we did it with them for real. So real stop motion over the course of a couple of weeks. It was the first thing that we shot for the whole season. But within the episode, what's fun is that, you know, to me, I grew up watching these animated Christmas specials that were on in the early 70s. And one in particular that I loved was Year Without a Santa Claus that had Mickey Rooney as the voice of Santa Claus, Shirley Booth as Mrs. Claus. And it's. They have to basically, Santa thinks at Christmas. Nobody cares about Santa Claus anymore, so he says he's taking Christmas off. And they have to figure out a way for the children of the world to let Santa know that they want him. And so they send Santa and the elves. He has his two elves jingle and Jangle Elf, and they go down to South Town, USA on one of the reindeer, I think Vixen. And they have to fly between the Heat Miser and the Snow Miser. The Heat Miser is in charge of all the hot weather in the world, and Snow Miser's in charge of all the wintry weather.

[Adam Scott]

Anyway, this is something that you watched over and over as a kid, like every Christmas.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, like also the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer one.

[Adam Scott]

Of course, I've definitely seen that one.

[Ben Stiller]

Rudolph and the Baby New Year. And it was Rankin and Bass. They were the animators. And these are classics they're on every year. You can get them every year. But there's one moment where the Heat Miser, his hair goes on fire. Oh, yeah, you know. Cause he's orange and red. And he's voiced by George S. Irving. And Snow Miser is voiced by Dick Shawn. These two great character actors. Anyway, we did a little moment with Irving that's kind of a nod to the Heat Miser song in there, when.

[Adam Scott]

He says, let's burn this place to the ground.

[Ben Stiller]

Let's burn this place to the ground. There's these little Irvings with their hair on fire. So, you know. And it ends up being what they call the Macrodat Uprising. Right.

[Adam Scott]

And also another interesting thing about it is that the main character and the narrator of the film is the building. And they're kind of turning the Lumen building into this kind of jolly, happy, go lucky, inviting kind of father figure to all of Lumen and its employees.

[Ben Stiller]

That's right. Yeah. Anyway, that happens. And basically, you know, you guys are told by Milchick like, hey, I'm not going to be your jailer.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And you know, no one's going to be watching you. And of course, nobody really believes any of this.

[Adam Scott]

That's the funny thing about it, is that all four of us immediately kind of just shrug it off, just like, okay, whatever, dude.

[Ben Stiller]

I think it's so sinister that they would do something that was so upbeat and fun and childlike. But basically we're learning within that little piece that they've recorded your voices because there's a recording of you making your speech at OD and recording of. Of Irving saying, let's burn this place to the ground. That are actual recordings. So it's even in my mind, it's even more ominous.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And it kind of goes to show that maybe that closet that they've covered up, they've covered it up for a reason. Cause it was the only place where they had some privacy. Cause obviously they weren't able to record and didn't know about them taking advantage of the otc.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And now they just have to kind of like, go, you know, screw it. We just gotta, like, whisper and talk to each other somehow. And everybody wants to get caught up on what happened out there. And we learn, you know, that what you saw, which is the big news. We learn that Heli is kind of. It seems like she doesn't want to tell the truth about what she saw.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Like, she's embarrassed about what she saw or something. And also, Heli noticed in an earlier scene that the camera that was always in MDR is no longer.

[Ben Stiller]

That's right. Yeah. They're being told basically that, like, hey, you don't have to all, like, huddle up in the closet. He's kind of letting them know that we knew you were doing that.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But, yeah, it's interesting that Heli doesn't want to tell the truth. It's interesting that Irving is basically still getting over this really traumatic moment of being at Burt's door and wants to leave and kind of wants to end it all.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And Dylan is able to sort of talk him off the ledge, and everybody ends up back in mdr.

[Adam Scott]

Wonderful scene between Jon and Zack there.

[Ben Stiller]

Great scene. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Love.

[Ben Stiller]

Loved that scene where also Irving tells Dylan about the black hallway, too, for the first time.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

And then everybody's back around the cubicle, and we're kind of like resetting for the beginning of season two.

[Adam Scott]

And the music cue there is really terrific.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes. Yeah. That's a great song by the Allergies, which are kind of a DJ group.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, cool. Yeah, it's a great kind of. We're resetting in a way. Everything is now different, but we're seeing them sit in their familiar spots.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

It's a really fun moment.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And then that last little moment on your monitor, and, like, we see a flicker of. It looks like Gemma, possibly Ms. Casey.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So we don't quite know what that is, and we see that it says Cold harbor on it, which is another file that. It seems like that's the file you. You're working on.

[Adam Scott]

Huh? Interesting. Okay. Okay, well, let's take a quick break. And when we come back. We'll be joined by our very special guest, Tramel Tillman.

[Ben Stiller]

The MDR team continues to search for answers as they try to piece together memories from the overtime contingency. With Mark S attempting reintegration and the truth about Heli beginning to surface, the team is more disconnected from each other and Lumen than ever. But luckily you don't have to take a mind erasing elevator to work every day. So your workplace productivity can be much simpler with Confluence vital. Atlassian Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. So goodbye severed workplace alienation. Hello teamwork with Confluence. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn [e-mail] confluence that's a t l a s s I a n.com c o n fl u n c E.

[Tramell Tillman]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part. Waiting on hold for an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting rooms, standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy remove those painful parts of getting better with things like 247 virtual visits and prescriptions delivered to your door. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.

[Ben Stiller]

We're so done with New Year, new you. This year it's more you on Bumblebee. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want. And you know what? We love that for you. Someone else will too. Be more you this year and find them on Bumble. Our guest today is the wonderful, incredibly talented actor, Mr. Tramell Tillman, who plays our new floor manager, Mr. Milchick.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

Also known by some as Mr. Milkshake.

[Adam Scott]

I'm so sorry about that.

[Ben Stiller]

Trammel. Welcome to the pod. Happy you're here. You're so great. It's so exciting to talk to you. We didn't get to talk to you in season one, so this is awesome.

[Tramell Tillman]

I'm glad. I'm glad I got this opportunity here. Listen, you know he's the boss now.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

He's doing big things. He has moved Up. We're excited.

[Adam Scott]

I'm excited. Yeah. Mr. Mil, first of all, thank you for being here. You're just incredible.

[Tramell Tillman]

Thank you.

[Adam Scott]

Obviously, we are very, very fond of you and Mr. Milchick. I find Mr. Milchick, and I know the audience does as well, just fascinating because he's in this position of authority and sometimes has to do things with the Innies. That feels ethically dodgy. But you feel for Mr. Milchick. He's a fascinating person. And I'm just curious, like, what it was about the character right off the bat that interested you? And where did all of that sort of barely hidden empathy and complexity come from?

[Tramell Tillman]

Well, first, I gotta say thank you so much for seeing that the man is not completely a monster.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

I think there's a couple threats out there for Milchick. They wanna see him in the streets and lay hands on him. But, you know, I think what's so important about building Milchick was to find his heart.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

And find, you know, his pulse, his rhythm, what drives him in this space. And he's the keeper of all these secrets. Right. So he knows everything. But all of it is in service of Lumen, in service of Kir. So for me, finding a way in was really finding depth and connection with the Enies. And as long as I can get some idea of trust with them, if I can get them to play along, I'm winning.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But one of the interesting things, I think, in the dynamic of the show is that we never quite know where you're at in terms of your feelings for them, what you're up to. As you said, like, some people see Milchick as a very scary character. Cause you don't know. You don't know what's going on there. And sometimes he's scary, sometimes he's charming. Sometimes he seems connected. Sometimes he seems that he's totally putting up this facade. And so it was fun over the course of the season to have those discussions with you. And we didn't know each other before, and maybe we could just talk a little bit about your background, where you came from as an actor. Where did it all start for you, Tramell? Because I know you did some things before you went into acting.

[Tramell Tillman]

I did. I did. I did some of everything. You know, for me, it started in the church. I grew up in the church in Landover, Maryland. And it was very important to my mom that I was active. You know, it wasn't just all about schoolwork. She wanted to make sure that I was well rounded and she got involved with this play at the church, and they needed somebody to play her son. And what better person to play her son than, I guess, her son, Right? But when I was approached about doing the play, I was terrified. I didn't want to do it. I was incredibly shy as a kid. I didn't like standing up in front of people. I didn't like talking to people. I didn't like engaging with strangers. So I just wanted to be in my room reenacting scenes from movies like Bad boys, you know. So she encouraged me to do this play. And something just connected for me. I had one line in one direction. I was supposed to say hi and sit on the couch.

[Ben Stiller]

That was it.

[Tramell Tillman]

That was it. And when I did, something just lit in me and I said, this is amazing. This is so much fun.

[Adam Scott]

And what was it about it that was exciting?

[Tramell Tillman]

I think it was sitting on the couch in front of all of these people who I wasn't really sure. I knew. Some I did, some I didn't. And just existing together in a space, just breathing. And I didn't feel afraid when I was on stage. It was something. All of the barriers, the covers, the mask, they just melted away. And I can just be.

[Adam Scott]

So you felt, like, completely exposed and comfortable with that?

[Tramell Tillman]

In a very strange way.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But didn't you at one point want to go into medicine?

[Tramell Tillman]

I did. That came about because I was told at a very young age that I'd never make it as an actor.

[Adam Scott]

That's nice.

[Ben Stiller]

So that sent you into.

[Tramell Tillman]

Well, it was almost like an ultimatum. Like, if you wanted to make it in life, you need to either go to business, medicine, sciences, technology. You gotta go the STEM route.

[Adam Scott]

Sure.

[Tramell Tillman]

You know? So I figured, science, I can help people make a difference. I'm good in science. I'm horrible at math, but I'm good at science. So I looked into becoming a doctor. And through high school, I even went to college. I went to Xavier University in New Orleans. Cause they were number ones in sending African Americans to medical school. I was doing great in biology class. I was miserable. I hated it. I think the best part of chem lab was watching the chemicals change colors, which in of itself is a form of theater.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I was just gonna say, it's like they're performing for you.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yes. And I loved it. But I looked around and I noticed that all of these people, my classmates who are now doctors, they love this. They were so enthralled with this. And I said, you know, if I'm gonna live my life I wanna do something that I love to do. And so I went on a long journey to try to figure out what is the thing that made me happy, what gave me joy. And I went from career to career. I went into public relations, I went into advertising, I went into publicity. I went into all of the different avenues to try to figure out that thing. And it was eventually I got to the point where I had to sit down with myself and had the help with a mentor who is the head of acting at Jackson State University, Dr. Mark G. Henderson. And he said to me, what is the thing that excites you? What is the thing that motivates you? And it doesn't matter how much you get paid, what is that thing? And I said, it was performing. That's what you need to do. And I gave him every excuse in the book as to why I shouldn't do it, why I can't do it. And he said, you know, once you're finished with your excuses, go after it. And he told me to go to grad school. And I ended up going to grad school at University of Tennessee for a theater. For a theater. To study that. To get the tools to have in the toolbox. And all of those experiences, from working all these crazy jobs, studying medicine to, you know, being an abstinence educator, all of these things just led to this point.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And I wanted to ask. I read that you were one of the first black men to graduate from University of Tennessee's acting program. Right?

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

What year was that?

[Tramell Tillman]

2014.

[Ben Stiller]

Kind of crazy.

[Adam Scott]

That is wild.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah. It's bizarre.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I mean, just to talk about that for a second. Cause Milchick is really the only black employee or person in management. Right.

[Tramell Tillman]

That we see forward facing. Right? Yeah. Cause Natalie. But.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, well, Natalie too, I guess. On the severed floor too. Right. It's like. But you're right. But it's something that is part of what's going on there. But we don't talk about it a lot in the show. How did that play for you? How did that play into just the dynamics in the first season and then going into the second season? Because at the beginning of the second season, you have been promoted and you're starting to feel a little bit of the corporate politics.

[Tramell Tillman]

Right. I think it really fed into the making of Milchick. I remember the conversation that I had with you, Ben and Dan Erickson, when we discussed Milchick's ethnicity, the fact that he's black. And the question I asked is, does he know he's black, you know. And so for me, it was really important for this character and as an actor to know if this character understood that he is different from this culture that they've built at Lumen. When we look at the perpetuity wings, you know, they're all homogenous for the most part. They're all white. And so we don't see a lot of images of black people or brown people represented through Lumen. So what does it mean to be in a world that you are not represented in? And how does Milchick buy into that? And I think there is something that Kiir feeds. There's a doctrine, there's a philosophy, there's a history that he really attaches himself to that empowers him in some way, that he continues day after day to be a part of this, because just like you said, you know, he's participating in dodgy behavior. How does he reconcile that? How does he sleep at night knowing what he's doing to these innies or how does he view these innies? You know?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. It's really interesting because on the page, I remember before you were cast, before you even thought about anyone playing the role, reading it, it seemed fairly straightforward. The role of Milchick. And then when I saw you playing the role, you sent me Trammell's, one of his auditions, I think the final audition, whatever it was, and it just completely bloomed and it just jumped off the page and added so much dimension and complexity to a role that could have been completely straightforward and functioned fine in the story. But that complexity and those, like, new angles completely kind of redefined it. Now, when you say that about Milchick, you know, having to sort of participate in things that might be a little ethically dodgy, how aware of that? Because his belief has to be overpowering and guiding him to a certain extent. How much do you feel he is aware of the kind of ethically tricky corners he finds himself in?

[Tramell Tillman]

That's a good question. I don't know if I specifically have broken down how much Milchick has thought about the ethical ramifications. I know that he senses the ethical, the issues with that. We saw that in season one, episode three or four, where Helly, it's the first time she goes down into the break room and heli is pleading with Milchick, don't do this, don't do this. You seem like a sensible guy. And he just says, not right now. You know, there's something there that he recognizes. He taps into that humanity.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Tramell Tillman]

But this is A man of duty.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

You know, this is a man of task. He has a job at hand, and he goes and serves the mission.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

I get the sense he is, at least through season one, kind of a Company man.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, very.

[Ben Stiller]

And, you know, we don't know, you know, just going back to what you were talking about earlier in terms of, you know, how he sees himself at the Company, we don't know what his background is in terms of how he was raised, where he was raised. This connection to Lumen and to Kir that you're talking about, it's an unknown for us. In terms of how deep that goes with him and how much that overrides maybe his sense of self. In terms of. As it applies to somebody who works at the company, it applies to race. Right. It's like what you said. How does he know he's black? It's such an interesting question. To me, part of that is like, how much is he just a product of this world that we don't know what it is and how overreaching it is in his world? So that, to me, is one of the things that's so fascinating about the character is that we don't know where he's coming from. And that scene with Heli in the break room is so scary because. Yeah, you get the sense. He says, not right now. It's like, you get the sense that he can be the guy who's like, hey, I'm your buddy. But then he can also be like, no, this is it. This is business. We draw the line here. That's what's so scary, is that you can go between that and I think that you do that so well in the show. Thank you. So in the second season now, here we are, and you've been promoted, and you have such a huge task in front of you because you have to basically get everybody back in line and tell them what happened and tell them what you're gonna do, and you have to reset everything.

[Tramell Tillman]

That's true.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. You have to clean up Cobell's mess and construct this entire new world of Lumen.

[Tramell Tillman]

Can I add to that? I also have to clean up my mess because I did the otc. Right. And that was a major boo boo.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And that's one of the things that we see throughout the show, is that Milchick sometimes is doing things. I mean, Cobell is doing her own thing, which you put her in check on, we see in season one. But then. And you ultimately tell her she's out. Right. And you're not making the decision, but you draw the line there. But then you're constantly having to do things and make choices that you're on the line for. And here we are. Now the OTC happened, and now you're responsible for resetting everybody. And you got to show Mark the newspaper, but don't really let them look at it for too long.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Ben Stiller]

I love the moment where basically you say to him, enjoy your balloons, when Mark pushes too hard. Right. And we really get the sense that there's gonna be a real tension here that's coming for the season between Mark pushing back on you and you drawing the line. And then you take everybody to the break room. You have to kind of reset everybody, and you show them the paper. You know, the redacted. Right. Yeah. Let's take a listen to that scene.

[Tramell Tillman]

I know we have our differences.

[Unknown]

But.

[Tramell Tillman]

I want you to know that I truly respect each and every one of you, and I don't want to be your jailer. By end of day, each of you will choose whether you want to remain here. Not your Audis, but you. If you start work on your file, I'll assume you want to stay. If not, I'll send you to the surface. No ill will. Maybe I'll even buy you a drink at a bistro one day. Like the rest of the severed floor, the break room has no cameras or microphones. Privacy shouldn't mean packing into a supply closet like so many sardines. I truly hope you all will choose to stay and enjoy what you've helped build. A new quarter, fresh start for all of us.

[Adam Scott]

So you're just pointing all blame, just dumping it all on Cobell, all on her.

[Tramell Tillman]

That's right. That's right. I didn't do anything wrong. That's Cobell.

[Adam Scott]

Now, in season one, you saw her kind of going off track here and there, but she was above you, and you were somewhat supportive. But then when things completely went off the rails, like Ben said, you were tasked with telling her she was fired. It was time for her to go. So now you're stepping into her role. Is this sort of. I mean, it's like you were saying, it's this. You have several messes to clean up. But this is a huge opportunity for Milchick as well, isn't it?

[Tramell Tillman]

Oh, absolutely. I believe Milchick to be not only just a company man, but an ambitious company man. He has his sights set high, and when Cobell had the opportunity to turn things around, she chose not to. And I think it's really interesting you Know, going back to season one, Cobell asked the question, did Milchick turn me in when she's talking to Natalie? And that question is never answered, which I think is fun.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

And even on top of that, their relationship, this Cobell and Milchick seems like this mentor and mentee relationship. And any of the actions that were coming or ramifications would immediately go to Cobell. But now that Milchick has risen to the ranks now, anything that happens, it falls on him.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

And so whether or not he betrayed Cobell, you know, I think that's, you know, a question to let linger, if you will. But I think it's so interesting that now in this position, when he's trying to. To get Mark back on board, that he's putting everything on her.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You know, I just have a question. Is a throuple with an innie and an outie an ethical form of non monogamy?

[Adam Scott]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Tramell Tillman]

That is a really good question.

[Ben Stiller]

I feel like the throuple, the throuple with Cobell and Mark, Sandy and Audi.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Could be. I don't know.

[Adam Scott]

That could be its own spin off.

[Ben Stiller]

It could be a spin off.

[Adam Scott]

It's just, it's funny that, that Mr. Milchick is sort of taking this word that means something else and applying it to some just to make something else sound illicit and perverted in a way. And it doesn't even really make a lot of sense.

[Ben Stiller]

It doesn't make sense. No.

[Tramell Tillman]

Corporate speak.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Has it been interesting being identified as Mr. Milchick in the world? People knowing you from the show, has that become a thing? And how do people sort of respond to you in life?

[Tramell Tillman]

They're terrified of me.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, come on.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I have to say something. We went to see you in a play which you were wonderful in.

[Tramell Tillman]

Thank you.

[Ben Stiller]

Off Broadway recently. And this character was 180 degrees from Mr. Milchick and you were smiling and laughing and so accessible and warm. And I'm sitting there watching it, knowing you for a number of years now, knowing you're an actor, knowing you're creating this character, and I'm going, oh, my God, this is freaking me out.

[Adam Scott]

I know, it was jarring. Particularly strange since that character was so much closer to who you are, Tramiel, as a person than Mr. Milchick is. But it's still. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was so wildly different.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I'm so impressed. I mean, honestly, it's. And having worked with you over the last few years, you know, the intensity and the specificity and the concentration you have. When I'm working with you, it is. I do feel like I'm working with you in character as Milchick. I don't know how you do it. Maybe talk a little bit about that. You don't have to if you don't want to. But, like, you're in a space, and we all go into a space when we're working. But it feels different than probably if I ran into you on the street or right now.

[Tramell Tillman]

Sure, yeah. I mean, with Milchick, it feels like you gotta put a suit on. You know what I mean? This man's got layers upon layers upon layers. And at any moment he could turn. So for me to walk in that, even on set, you know, I'm not. Or at least I don't think I'm a dick to anybody on set. But, you know, there's this. There's a heaviness. There's a weight that you gotta stay in. And the way the ship is ran, we work, we're, like, so focused and so tuned in and getting the shots and angles and everything. We can't afford to lose any moment.

[Ben Stiller]

You're so right. Everybody has the responsibility on the set, you know, to get the most out of our days. And you guys have so much responsibility because lots of times you come in with these long speeches or these very long scenes. Long scenes, specifically worded. Nobody's really improving on set.

[Tramell Tillman]

Nope, you can't.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And so you guys are bringing in your end of it. We all know each other now. We know. Okay, we're gonna be going for a lot of shots in this scene. Or we're gonna be going for a oner in this scene where everybody has to have it nailed. And. And everybody seems to really come to the table with taking care of their part of the bargain. And it's always so appreciated. And I'm always amazed. Cause I watch you guys, and even though I'm an actor, as a director, I just am such a fan because I see how good you guys are with this very technical stuff. I mean, we also can't not talk about the MDE from season one.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Music, Dance Experience. Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

You must get a lot of that out in the world. People wanting to talk about it.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yes. One person came up to me and asked me to dance. Reenact the dance in the middle of the street. I'm like, okay, what am I?

[Ben Stiller]

What am I here to entertain you?

[Adam Scott]

Exactly.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm a clown. I amuse you. But it Was. It's amazing. I love it so much. I remember when we were doing it and, you know, when I was editing it, I just was like, this is like my favorite thing to watch in the world. I don't think I knew that you moved so well when you came in and read for the show. We never really talked about that, did we?

[Tramell Tillman]

No, it wasn't part of dance. What is your dance experience? You didn't know that was trained?

[Ben Stiller]

No. So what can you tell me? What is your training? Where does it come from?

[Tramell Tillman]

I think it's just, you know, it's just life. It's just all natural, really.

[Adam Scott]

Well, you must have been in the dance. Like, I can as a professional dancer. I mean, you're amazing.

[Tramell Tillman]

Thank you.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm alive. I have experience. I don't move. Yeah, there's gotta be something more. No training, no classes, no official training.

[Tramell Tillman]

I mean, I might have took a class here and there, but I. You know, I did talent shows when I was a kid and I remember dancing. So did I. California Raisins. Do you remember that? California Raisins.

[Ben Stiller]

I remember the California Raisins.

[Tramell Tillman]

I dressed up as a California Raisin.

[Ben Stiller]

Wait, you were a California.

[Tramell Tillman]

California Raisin, like in the commercials? No, no, no, no. Just I dressed up in the talent.

[Adam Scott]

Show and like, did lip synced to. I heard it through the graveyard. Yes.

[Tramell Tillman]

There's a video somewhere. I have to find it. My mom has it. Well, it was just, you know, it's just let you go and have fun.

[Ben Stiller]

But you went on. We talked about it. I remember we had a choreographer came, but you basically, like went off and you just figured. You just figured it out, right? You and her went off together and.

[Tramell Tillman]

Then gave us that very beautiful but hard to dance music.

[Ben Stiller]

Shaking very hard.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Tramell Tillman]

How do you dance to this? What is this?

[Ben Stiller]

Like.

[Tramell Tillman]

Okay, let's start in the shoulders. Let's figure it out.

[Adam Scott]

That is amazing because I don't think MDE was even conceived when you were cast probably. So it's just by sheer luck that you happen to be like this world class dancer. I mean, it's incredible.

[Tramell Tillman]

I mean, also, John Turturro is incredible. You know, like, I had to step my game up because he was.

[Ben Stiller]

What about Adam? Adam.

[Tramell Tillman]

Oh, Adam.

[Ben Stiller]

Adam.

[Adam Scott]

Funny how you're not mentioning me. That's fine.

[Ben Stiller]

But Turturro was holding back.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

Because he does like, he is like.

[Adam Scott]

He'S a real dancer.

[Ben Stiller]

I just watched Big Lebowski the other night. His physicality in that movie is so incredible. Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

Do you remember our first day? Do you remember my first day filming?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

Do you remember that day?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. The scene in the hallway with John.

[Tramell Tillman]

With me and John, Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

What happened?

[Tramell Tillman]

You know what happened?

[Adam Scott]

No.

[Tramell Tillman]

Okay. So I had not been filming on a set in probably a year and a half.

[Ben Stiller]

Right.

[Tramell Tillman]

It's what, October, November, into the pandemic, you know, 20. 20. 2020. We got masks on.

[Ben Stiller]

It's your first and also your first day on the show. First day, yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

With John.

[Ben Stiller]

With John Turturro. John Turturro. One of my first days with John Turturro.

[Adam Scott]

Wow. Okay. So you guys were both freaking out a little bit.

[Tramell Tillman]

Oh, absolutely. And it was not a simple shot.

[Adam Scott]

What scene was it?

[Tramell Tillman]

It was the scene where I caught Irving sleeping or, you know, hallucinating. And I told him to walk with me, essentially. And we're walking through the hallway, and I tell him. And I'm directing him to the. I'm directing him to.

[Ben Stiller]

You're taking him to the wellness?

[Tramell Tillman]

Yes. Wellness. Yeah, I'm taking him to wellness.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, right.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It's a hallway walk and talk in the hallway.

[Adam Scott]

Right. It's always super simple and easy. Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

We had the rung ladder on the floor.

[Adam Scott]

Just real quick. The rung ladder that you're talking about is, I think, the dolly track that's on the floor that has wheels on it. The camera's on it. So it, you know, creates movement with the camera. It's nice and smooth.

[Tramell Tillman]

That's right. So I had to walk over the wrong ladder, but make it look like I was not walking through the wrong ladder. Of course, it was choreographed in such a way that I had to lead, but stay with John, even though he's behind me. And I had to say the lines, which are written so beautifully by Dan Erickson, but it's not in a natural cadence. And then also work with the camera that was switching and turning and hitting the corners and whatnot. And then I'm also working with Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

So I'm like, what is going on? I was freaking out.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Your first day on this big show. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

And so I remember we did a couple takes, and Jon got wind of my frazzle, and he said, just relax, just breathe. You got it? And I turned and looked at him, and I smiled. I said, thank you, John. And then Ben gets on the walkie. Do you remember what you said, Ben?

[Ben Stiller]

No.

[Tramell Tillman]

Ben said, all right, I got good news, and I got bad news. Good news. We're going to do it till we get it right. Bad news. We're going to do it till we get it right. And that. And John gave me the laugh that I needed to just breathe and relax through the whole thing.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

But that was the first day.

[Ben Stiller]

I remember. I remember. And, yeah, and I remember it was. You know, and I think we did, like, it was like, 16 or 17 times. I do remember. No, no, but that's how long it.

[Adam Scott]

Takes to get some of those things.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And. But let me tell you something. Like, I. It's like. Yeah. I was like, okay. He's. It's okay. He's nervous. And there was a second I thought, like, okay, this is. This. I don't know this actor that well, but I know he's great. And I do know he has a big part in the show coming up. And I'm like, all right. Well, you know, it's the first day, and it's okay. You know, Like, I remember that very well because I was like, okay, I hope this works out, because, you know, sometimes you never know. Right?

[Tramell Tillman]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

Like, you never know. Like, this was. But I didn't know your history in terms of, like, how much you. What. So you've done. But I do know, like, I. I screw up so much. It's so. I just identified so much, and then, like, oh, my God. From, like, by the end of the season. Right. I mean, it's like, I was afraid to talk to you.

[Tramell Tillman]

I do remember those.

[Ben Stiller]

I have a note for True. I don't know, though, man. And I love it. It's like, dude. Right? It's just like, that's what it should be, though. It's like, because it was finding the character, finding the comfortability, finding all of that, and you have to, like. It can be so easy to be shut down and to be, you know, in an environment where all of a sudden you're like, oh, shit. And it should never feel like that on a set because we're not on stage. We're not having to. Like, it's not an audience out there. It's like, you should always have a second take, third take, whatever. Anyway. All right, man. Well, this is great. Listen, before you go, we have some of these questions from our hotline.

[Tramell Tillman]

Give them some.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So here's a question about something we were just talking about.

[Tramell Tillman]

Hello, this is Betty. I was wondering what Music Dance Experience you would choose and what you would do to get it officially canceled. Thank you. Do we have the list? Do you remember the list? There's a list for the Music Dance.

[Adam Scott]

Experience.

[Ben Stiller]

By the Way. The way it's also one of my favorite moments is the Music Dance Experience is officially canceled.

[Tramell Tillman]

That was so much fun.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. I remember we did that when we had come back to shoot again after we had finished principal photography. And I remember being back and watching that moment where you swipe the thing, there's the awkwardness with the card, but also with the door that doesn't slam. It was amazing.

[Tramell Tillman]

Oh, that was so much fun.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Also, the Music Dance Experience is officially canceled is also, like, one of those moments, I think, that defines the tone of the show where it's, like, funny but real, and it's sort of, like, ironic and, like, what is this guy doing? But he's also in charge and it's everything.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Tramell Tillman]

It's almost petulant in a way.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

Definitely taking this away. You're not acting right. It's canceled.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And also, like, when you drew blood, like, you're so. It's really.

[Tramell Tillman]

How dare he?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

How dare he?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

This is supposed to be a good time, man. We needed some virality and he ruined it. Okay, so we have bawdy funk, bouncy swing, buoyant reggae, defiant jazz. Okay. Effusive ska, exalted choral, exciting rap, Hootin tootin country, lofty orchestral, maximized rhythm, playful punk, reckless disco, spooky ambient, tearful emo, thoughtful grunge, wholesome big band, wistful pipes. And the question was, if I had to choose the.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Which one would you choose?

[Tramell Tillman]

Which one would I choose?

[Ben Stiller]

And then what would you do to get it officially canceled?

[Adam Scott]

What's the coral one? What is that called?

[Tramell Tillman]

It's Coral. Exalted coral.

[Adam Scott]

Exalted coral.

[Tramell Tillman]

One that sounds very, very religious. That sounds like an experience. I have to go with body funk.

[Adam Scott]

Body funk. Like B, A W, B, A W, D, Y. Man.

[Tramell Tillman]

Like, it's got.

[Adam Scott]

I think that's right for you, Tramel. Yeah. Body.

[Tramell Tillman]

Doesn't it feel guttural?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. I can see you just getting in.

[Tramell Tillman]

It all the way down, man.

[Adam Scott]

I want to see Tramel step into the body funk.

[Ben Stiller]

And then I want to see you do your dance exactly the same.

[Tramell Tillman]

To the body funk. The march.

[Ben Stiller]

The march, yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Which you matched. You came up and did it right along with me.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, man. Okay, one more second question for Mr. Milchick.

[Tramell Tillman]

Hello, my name is Karina Sabiva, and my question is, who is Mr. Milchick's most favorite and least favorite severance worker? Thank you so much and have a pleasant day. Oh, I hope I don't get in trouble for this one.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it's a good question.

[Tramell Tillman]

That's a really good question.

[Ben Stiller]

And Adam's not in character now.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. So you can say whatever you want.

[Ben Stiller]

Executive producer.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Tramell Tillman]

Well, I would have said Mark, but, you know, he's mouthing off at me in season, in episode one, so I don't know.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Tramell Tillman]

I don't know. I think Irving is one of his favorites. He gets it. He understands the principles. He knows all nine, and he appreciates the. What Kier stands for. He understands that the work is mysterious and important.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

He's reliable. You can count on Irving.

[Ben Stiller]

I love the scene in episode seven, season one, where, you know, the Burt retirement party where you have to. Oh, yeah, you know, kind of like, lay down the law a little bit, and you say, I don't know what's gotten into you people today.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And it seems like you're particularly surprised that Irving is behaving this way.

[Tramell Tillman]

It's like, Irving's the guy.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah. He's always focused, man. Tramel, it was great to see you. I'm so, so happy that we got to talk. And you're so great. It's exciting what comes up in season two that we can't talk about yet, where we're headed. And maybe you'll come back at some point, you know, because there's a lot of great stuff to talk about as the season develops, and it's been really, really fun. Working on second season with you is just a great experience.

[Tramell Tillman]

Thank you.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And looking forward to more in the future.

[Tramell Tillman]

Absolutely.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

Do you know who I need to talk to? An IT person to fix my screen? It still says, hello, Ms. Cobell. Who do I need to talk to?

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah, we'll get that taken care of right away.

[Tramell Tillman]

Okay.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah. I called.

[Ben Stiller]

I know that you're not happy about that. I know.

[Tramell Tillman]

No, I'm not.

[Adam Scott]

That seems to really piss off Mr. Milchick.

[Tramell Tillman]

I'm not sure why that is, but.

[Adam Scott]

You know, it's just not a fan.

[Tramell Tillman]

We need to, like.

[Ben Stiller]

It's just like a little moment there where you kind of say to Ms. Wong, like, if somebody calls, you get them to fix a screen right now, and it feels like it drops Milchick a little bit. It gets a little more familiar. Am I right?

[Tramell Tillman]

It's a little real.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Tramell Tillman]

It's like, all right, guys, come on now. We haven't talked about this. I've been here a couple days.

[Ben Stiller]

It kind of like the Veneer drops a little bit.

[Tramell Tillman]

And then Dylan comes back, and he's like, oh, yeah, we're great.

[Adam Scott]

We're good. All is good. Oh, yeah. Good.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So much good stuff.

[Adam Scott]

I also like seeing all of Milchick's stuff that still has bubble wrap around it kind of behind him on the shelf. It's really interesting.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And also where he keeps his motorcycle helmet and leather jacket back there. And the secret room. We didn't talk about that.

[Tramell Tillman]

The secret room.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that was such a fun thing, too, because, you know, Dan had written it as, you know, there's this, like, back closet. And in season one, the first time we see. When you bring Mark in to see Ms. Cobell, the first time we see Patricia, she comes out from that door, and I always remember thinking, like, okay, there's, like, something in there we don't know. And we all came up with this idea of, like, oh, what if there's, like, actually, like, a passageway in that door that can go back to where it's, like, your real back office there?

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

All right.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you. Thank you, Tramiel.

[Tramell Tillman]

Yeah. Thank you. This was fun.

[Ben Stiller]

It was great, man.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, so we end episode one with another severance mystery. Why did Ms. Casey's face flash on the screen? So, to help tide you over, we're bringing Zack Cherry in to give you his prediction of what's to come in episode two.

[Ben Stiller]

And just so you know, these predictions are kind of what Zach thinks based on really probably only having read his sides and his scenes.

[Adam Scott]

He doesn't like reading other people's lines.

[Ben Stiller]

But let's hear what he has to say.

[Unknown]

Thanks, Ben and Adam. It's Zach here. You know, that's right. I only read my lines. So I don't know what's going on this season on Severance, but I'm excited to find out. I keep trying to convince you guys to let me do the. The announcer voice on the show. My dream was to sort of be like the movie phone guy and say, coming up next on Severance, so we're gonna get that in here, too. Here's my predictions for what happens in episode two. Next time on Severance, Ms. Casey is trapped in the number four. And then when Mark finishes Cold harbor, she moves up to the number five, but she doesn't want to get to the number seven, because obviously, seven, eight, nine, and that's some scary stuff. And then also, I think Milchick is gonna change his name to Ms. Cobell, so then he doesn't have to feel sad. About his computer login screen. Maybe they'll send him two paychecks by accident.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay, first of all, the four trapped in the number four. It doesn't make any the premise of his joke. He just wants to get to seven, eight, nine. Yeah, like a second grader joke.

[Adam Scott]

As usual, Zach is just, you know, after applause and laughs and nothing else. Doesn't care where they come from.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And he also wants to do his announcer voice thing, which is sort of. It's not very. It's not like in his wheelhouse, really.

[Adam Scott]

But, you know, just like always. I'm sure it'll work out wonderfully for Zack and he'll get some big voiceover job because of this.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Why don't you pitch it to Fallout Zach?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

See how they like it. Cause we're not buying it here.

[Adam Scott]

Give it a shot on crashing. Okay. And that does it for the season two premiere. We'll be back next week with creator Dan Erickson to talk all about season two, episode two.

[Ben Stiller]

And you can stream every episode of Severance on Apple tv, with new episodes coming out every Friday.

[Adam Scott]

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Redhour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

[Ben Stiller]

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Audysee app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Bari Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Gabrielle Lewis, Jenner Weiss Berman and Leah Rhys Dennis. This show is produced by Zandra Ellen, Ben Goldberg and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basel. We had additional engineering from Javi Krustas and Davey Sumner.

[Adam Scott]

Show clips are courtesy of fifth season music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey. Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Schuff.

[Ben Stiller]

And the team at Red, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, John Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderruten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker and Oliver Agar.

[Adam Scott]

And at Great Scott, Naomi Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith.

[Ben Stiller]

At Rise Management, we had additional production help from Kristen Torres and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

And I'm Adam Scott. Thank you for listening.

[Ben Stiller]

And we all thank Kier for the Macrodat Uprising.

[Adam Scott]

Yes.