Who Are You? (with SZA, Dan Erickson, and We Know Severance)

Summary

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott Episode: "Who Are You?" (with SZA, Dan Erickson, and We Know Severance) Release Date: March 28, 2025

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Overview

In the "Who Are You?" episode of The Severance Podcast, hosts Ben Stiller and Adam Scott delve deep into the intricacies of Season 2 of the Emmy- and Peabody Award-winning TV show Severance. Joined by creator Dan Erickson, members of the We Know Severance podcast, and special guest SZA, the episode offers an insightful, behind-the-scenes exploration of the show's themes, character developments, and fan interactions. The discussion is rich with analysis, personal anecdotes, and thought-provoking questions that illuminate the show's profound narrative.

Season 2 Themes and Discussions

Identity and Self-Discovery The central theme of Season 2 revolves around the question, "Who are you?" This exploration of identity builds upon the foundations laid in the first season, where characters began to recognize their worth beyond their work personas. Amanda Rabinowitz, a guest and creator, elaborates:

"It's like the next step in that eternal question for the show, which is, who are you? And discovering your identity and the sort of messiness of that."
(07:18)

Dan Erickson adds that the season further delves into the characters' consciousness and their relationships, emphasizing the growing emotional stakes:

"The relationships between Mark and Helly and Dylan and Irving... developing real stakes in these relationships that have been earned now over the course of two seasons."
(15:45)

Rebellion and Group Dynamics Season 2 also examines the strength and fragility of the group formed by the characters. After significant acts of rebellion in Season 1, Season 2 tests the bonds between the characters. Amanda highlights moments where tensions arise, leading to pivotal losses that underscore the importance of each member within the group:

"If you lose somebody, then you become more aware of the importance of the people that you still have."
(16:31)

Guest Interviews

Conversation with We Know Severance Hosts

Ben Stiller and Adam Scott engage with Josh Wigler and Melissa Woodward from the We Know Severance podcast. They discuss the neurological aspects portrayed in the show and its alignment with real-world neuroscience. Melissa, a neuroscientist, commends the show's accurate representation:

"There's clearly been so much thought and effort put into that to make it as accurate as, you know, a sci-fi type show can be."
(28:53)

The discussion touches upon the neuroethics of memory suppression, a core concept in Severance. Melissa reflects on the potential benefits and ethical dilemmas of such technology:

"A lot of pushback amongst my classmates talking about potential negative implications... but there was also this really significant component of some people are really experiencing debilitating PTSD."
(32:53)

Interview with SZA

The episode features an engaging interview with SZA, who shares her personal reflections and creative inspirations drawn from Severance. She connects her experiences with the show's exploration of identity and consciousness:

"It speaks to how much we distract ourselves with anything because we welcome that... it's just this place where it's like, no, you're gonna constantly be finding meaning for awful things."
(55:18)

SZA discusses her creative process, influenced by her journey of self-discovery and the themes presented in Severance. She delves into the importance of stripping away distractions to uncover one's true self:

"I started putting shit on my walls and, like, color on my floor after five years of living in this house, it was just all white forever."
(55:35)

Notable Highlights and Quotes

• Daylight Savings Time Conversation: Ben and Adam engage in a light-hearted debate about daylight savings time, showcasing their chemistry and humor.

  "Can we actually suppress a memory?" – Dan Erickson
  (33:52)

• Fan Engagement through Hotline Questions: The hosts address fan questions, offering deeper insights into specific scenes and character motivations.

  "Cut beans... isn't that sort of like a term, like a slang term for being severed?" – Dan Erickson
  (22:00)

• Astrology Segment with SZA: SZA humorously assigns zodiac signs to Severance characters, blending pop culture with character analysis.

  "Mark is giving Taurus because he's grounded, but he's also curious..." – SZA
  (60:16)

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

The "Who Are You?" episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of Severance's second season, intertwining thematic analysis with personal insights from creators, fans, and celebrities. The discussions illuminate the show's profound questions about identity, memory, and human connections, while also highlighting its impact on both creators and audiences alike.

Ben Stiller and Adam Scott successfully navigate complex themes, making the podcast a valuable resource for fans seeking a deeper understanding of the show's narrative and character arcs. The inclusion of thoughtful guests like Dan Erickson and SZA enriches the conversation, offering diverse perspectives that resonate with the show's core messages.

As the podcast concludes, anticipation builds for Season 3, promising further unraveling of Severance's enigmatic storyline and its philosophical inquiries into the nature of self and existence.

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and are included to reference the exact moments of notable quotes within the episode.

Transcript

[Ben Stiller]

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by State Farm. Learn [e-mail] severance like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey, Adam.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah?

[Ben Stiller]

Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately?

[Adam Scott]

I don't know. I think it's.

[Dan Erickson]

It's okay.

[Ben Stiller]

I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose confluence by Atlassian.

[Ben Stiller]

Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and. And deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.

[Adam Scott]

So that would equal out, like, if we're playing with, like, let's just say, 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah, that's the improvement.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

[Adam Scott]

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.

[Ben Stiller]

So why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all set, knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian.com confluence that's a t l a s s I-a n.com c o n f l U-E-N c.

[Adam Scott]

E.

[Sza]

Bro, what the fuck is Lumen like? Is it a cult? Is it religion? What's the end goal of Lumen in every department? What is the actual end goal? Like, is Mark gonna die when he gets completely like of this? Like, I just. I mean, because if Mark dies, obviously I take Mark's place. And then we move forward to season three.

[Dan Erickson]

I think we have the season three.

[Adam Scott]

That would be amazing, actually.

[Dan Erickson]

Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

I'm Adam Scott.

[Dan Erickson]

And this is the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance.

[Adam Scott]

Today is a very special bonus episode. We're looking back at all of season two with some incredible guests.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. And first, we're gonna be joined by our creator, the man who created the world of Severance from his mind, Dan Erickson. And we'll talk all about the season, season two, and answer some of your hotline questions. Just sort of, you know, break down the whole experience.

[Adam Scott]

Just spend some real time. You know, I've missed this Brain in a jar that we call Dan Erickson.

[Dan Erickson]

He's so much more than a brain in a jar, though, isn't he?

[Adam Scott]

No, you're right, he is. But for me, it's just how I like to think of him, because it makes him malleable and innocent to just be a brain floating in a jar.

[Dan Erickson]

You think that brains are malleable and innocent?

[Adam Scott]

Every single one of them.

[Dan Erickson]

I guess when they're born, they are.

[Adam Scott]

Well, when they're disconnected from a body, they are.

[Dan Erickson]

Right. I wonder how Dan feels about us calling him brain in a Jar. We should ask him, right?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. After we speak with the Brain in a jar, we're sitting down with the hosts of We Know Severance, and they might know even more about severance than we do.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, I'm sure they do. Actually.

[Adam Scott]

I feel like we could learn a thing or two.

[Dan Erickson]

And then we're going to close out the episode with our severance super fan, who we are super fans of the one, the only Sza.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God. Sza.

[Dan Erickson]

And she's going to answer some hotline questions. We're going to get to talk to her about her incredibly important tweets that she sent out to keep us going.

[Adam Scott]

And her incredibly important music video starring you. Did I talk about that?

[Dan Erickson]

You don't have to talk about that.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, we're talking about that. Also, spoiler warning. We're gonna be talking about anything and everything from season two, so if you're not caught up yet, go do that before you listen to the rest of this.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. Adam, how are you doing, by the way? How's it going there?

[Adam Scott]

I'm good. I just need to tell you, just inform you real quick that when we're recording this, tomorrow is the beginning of daylight savings time. I just want to flag it for you.

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, I know. I know.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, you know, you're okay. You're aware. All right.

[Dan Erickson]

And somewhere inside of me, I'm hoping it might be the last time that we ever have to skip forward.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Dan Erickson]

Tonight we skip forward, lose an hour of sleep, but it's going to be sunnier a lot longer for those of us who don't wake up super, super early.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

I don't understand the debate. I still don't understand the debate.

[Adam Scott]

I know you don't. I just know you feel Strongly about it. Wanted to flag it for you just in case.

[Dan Erickson]

But why do you say it as if you're sort of like you're a neutral observer? You don't. I mean, come on.

[Adam Scott]

I'm indifferent. I love time and kind of the concept of time. Either way, I'm just enjoying the ride. You know, I'm easygoing person.

[Dan Erickson]

Cool, cool. You love time. All right, well, listen, do you like darkness? I mean, sometimes living in darkness? Okay, because I'm just saying, skip forward in your mind to next. What is it? October or whatever. It'll come way too quick one day and you'll be like, oh, wow, it's getting dark early. And then all of a sudden, one day it's like, oh, no, it's going to get dark a lot earlier at like 4:45.

[Adam Scott]

It's going to dark.

[Dan Erickson]

Exactly. For no reason.

[Adam Scott]

Guess what? I like that.

[Dan Erickson]

Why?

[Adam Scott]

Because it's cool.

[Dan Erickson]

You're like a goth guy.

[Josh Wigler]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

October comes around. I am goth till springtime, and we spring forward.

[Dan Erickson]

Okay, good. Well, at least we've defined now what your stance is, which is your anti daylight savings time. You're ads.

[Adam Scott]

Why is that? Wait a second. Why is that?

[Dan Erickson]

You just said you like darkness, but.

[Adam Scott]

Why is that anti daylight savings time?

[Dan Erickson]

Because daylight savings time is about saving daylight time.

[Adam Scott]

I think daylight savings time is an umbrella term for the concept of jumping forward or falling back. I don't think it refers to either one or the other. I think it's just a blanket term, isn't it?

[Dan Erickson]

Okay, that feels like a. Like that's a word salad you just gave me. You gave me one of those word salads.

[Adam Scott]

You know what we need? We need a daylight savings time expert on this.

[Dan Erickson]

I think we need to do a whole episode on daylight savings time.

[Adam Scott]

I think you're right.

[Dan Erickson]

Okay, that'll come in the near future.

[Adam Scott]

We do have an expert on severance, though. Our buddy Dan Erickson, severance creator, is back on the podcast. Thank you, Dan, for being here. How are you?

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Hi, guys. I am good. It's nice to be back in the recording studio looking at your faces on a screen.

[Dan Erickson]

Hey, Dan, just right off the bat, first question.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

Here we go.

[Dan Erickson]

On everybody's mind, what do you think of daylight savings time?

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Well, like Adam, I consider myself a bit of a goth, so, you know, the added hour of night is definitely to my liking.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you.

[Dan Erickson]

I think I'm done with this grouping. Cause I don't understand. I feel like it's all turned here.

[Sza]

Whoa.

[Adam Scott]

Ben just threw his headphones off.

[Dan Erickson]

No.

[Adam Scott]

Walking out of the room for a.

[Dan Erickson]

Long time, it was like, yeah, daylight savings time. Right. And you were, like, kind of playing along, but now you show your true colors.

[Adam Scott]

Maybe. Maybe I'm just getting comfortable.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, but, Dan, it's good to know where you stand, at least.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, well, in my, you know, brain jar, I can't see light anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Dan Erickson]

Well, let's talk about the brain jar. Let's talk about. How do you feel about being called the brain in a jar? And was it originally your idea?

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I don't think it was my idea. I feel like. I mean, we could go back and play the tape from the first one, but I feel like it was one of you guys who came up with this, and I don't. Look, I don't mind it. I have nothing against the jar industry or the brain industry. The problem is now people are just disappointed when they meet me to find I have a body, you know, and limbs and a corporeal form. They're like, oh, this is not the image we had of you. So that's the only thing.

[Adam Scott]

We should make it abundantly clear. Dan, as a person has nothing against jars. I've heard you talk favorably about jars on many occasions.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, no, they can keep our various pickles fresh. And whatever else they do.

[Dan Erickson]

I do remember it being Adam who came up with the Brain in a Jar, I think as, like, a funny quip thing.

[Adam Scott]

I don't know.

[Dan Erickson]

No, I think so. I think it was. Okay, well, now you're Dan Erickson, guy who's more than just a brain in a jar. He's a brain in a body.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Famous body haver Dan Erickson.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, I've now been messaged here that it is on record that I called Dan the big brain, and then Ben said, they're bringing Dan's brain in in a jar.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Okay.

[Adam Scott]

There you go.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Boom.

[Dan Erickson]

I like the big brain.

[Adam Scott]

I rest my case.

[Dan Erickson]

The big brain sounds like. Like a sports figure. Like the big brain.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

So let's. Let's go with the big brain. Why don't we go with the big.

[Adam Scott]

Brain, Dan the Big Brain Erickson.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, it would have been a weird thing for me to, like, say about myself or, like, hey, it's me, big brain.

[Dan Erickson]

Just call you B.B.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

It'S B.B.

[Dan Erickson]

Bebe Erickson.

[Adam Scott]

So it's been a week since the finale aired. So how is just kind of generally the overwhelming response to season two? How are you feeling? How has it been? Kind of seeing the whole thing unfold.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, it is. It's so crazy. Cause I feel like I've been walking around with this secret, you know, this thing that kind of only we knew about. And it was fun to, you know, imagine how people are gonna respond to everything. And, yeah, now it's out there. The brain is out of the jar. And it's been wild. I would say more than anything, it's been just a relief because I did spend so many hours just buried in crippling anxiety about whether we were gonna be able to match the first season. And the fact is, you never know until it's out there. You never know how people are gonna respond to it. And it was like we've talked about with the first season, where I think we knew it was special. We knew that we were always going to like it, but it was always possible that it was just us. And with this one, I just wanted to make sure that we were by all the people who had loved the first season and bringing them something that was just as cool and just as exciting. The fact that overall, people seem to be loving it as much as we did. There's a real sigh of relief happening there.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I think relief is the main feeling that I have as well.

[Dan Erickson]

For so long, it was theoretical in our minds, the idea of it coming out because we were in process for so long. So I think. Yeah, I remember, like, when we were working on, you know, like, whatever, episode three or four, and thinking, oh, this is going to be at least, you know, like a year and a half or until this comes out. We didn't know how long it would take. So. Yeah. To actually have it out in the world. And I've been actually surprised at how deeply the fans of the show have really gotten into the emotional journeys of the characters and how much they identify with the characters and care about the characters. So that's been, for me, really interesting. And just the week by week of it coming out, too, which I think is a very different experience. I don't know how you see that, Dan, but just sort of the difference between being able to binge a show and just watching the show week by week. Because every week, every episode has had time for people to really marinate in it. And some of them, obviously, some people flip out over certain episodes. And it's like that engagement is so strong. I wonder how people will experience the show who decide to now binge it.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite comments that I've seen was somebody who said online, like, this show has made me fall in love with a weekly release schedule. Again. And the idea of all of us together experiencing this thing in real time. We're watching it, and we're coming in the next day, and we're talking about it. And, you know, that is something that increasingly feels like it's going away. But, you know, I've always loved going back to Game of Thrones. And even I was thinking the other day, like, going back to, like, Seinfeld. I remember being in middle school, and we would come into the cafeteria on Friday. Cause Seinfeld would come out on Thursday, and it was just like, that was the thing everybody was talking about on Fridays. And I would come in, and my friend Neil would be like, dude, they did a whole episode about Kenny Rogers roasters. Like, how crazy is that? And it's just it, you know, not to be too lofty about it, but it's like, it helps build a culture and build a community to be able to have a common experience like that. And so if we did anything to contribute in any way to that, you know, bringing that back, and especially for younger people who might not be used to experiencing television that way, that, to me, is one of the. It just makes me feel really good.

[Dan Erickson]

Adam, do you have the memory of, like, coming in to school, like, after seeing a show or something? Because I have, like. I remember very clearly when the Motown 25th anniversary special was on.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, after the moonwalk.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. And I literally remember in high school coming in, and everybody was talking about Michael Jackson doing Billie Jean and the moonwalk.

[Adam Scott]

It was a big deal.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I remember Miami Vice being the one, because it was on Friday nights and it was elementary school. So it meant whoever's house we were doing a sleepover at, we were gonna watch Miami Vice, and we would read the little summary and TV Guide ahead of the episode and on the walk home from school, kind of talk about, like, what adventures Crockett and Tufts were gonna get into that night. And that being so fun.

[Dan Erickson]

Dan, what do you think for you would be, like, the biggest theme in this season that emerged? Cause I know we had thoughts about it and ideas, but in terms of what watching it, like, what you feel was the main sort of through line that came through.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I mean, when we were writing it, we always sort of talked about. For the Innies, anyway, in season one, the Innies were sort of like children and that this was more of, like, an adolescent story where, you know, in season one, it occurred to them that they could be their own people, independent of their outies, and that they themselves had value. And then in this season it was sort of about, okay, like, now that that's occurred to me, who am I? Like, if I am not something that exists simply in service of my Audi, then what do I want out of life? What do I want my identity and my life to look like? And even stuff like going to camp and having your first romantic experience, you know, these are things that are. It just felt like sort of the next step in that eternal question for the show, which is, who are you? And discovering your identity and the sort of messiness of that. So, yeah, I would say that's the main thing. And then also just like getting your jugular vein punctured by a goat slaughter device. I think those are the two themes that really tie the season together that really resonate.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, I do like the idea of, you know, the enies growing up. I think the adolescence, the sort of rebellion starting, it feels like in terms of just their consciousness and then also the relationships. I think there was a real development of these relationships between Mark and Helly and Dylan and Irving. And, you know, it's. It's interesting because I never worked on a show that has gone multiple seasons and just there's a real depth that starts to develop in terms of the history that you can build on. And I think that every scene becomes very important sort of as a history of these characters, the scenes that you see. And that to me is, you know, I think something that's I've really gotten is like, how deeply connected these characters are and then feeling the audience going along with that and developing real stakes in these relationships that have been earned now over the course of two seasons.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Right. Yeah. I mean, I think so much of season one was leading up to that moment where after Dylan tackles Milchick, and you have that moment where it's just all of you together and you sort of like, literally have his back and are all standing there as kind of a unit. And to me, this season is about testing that, you know, testing the strength of that group. And, you know, we see, of course, in episode four that people start to turn on each other and there start to be tensions, and it basically leads to the loss of Irving. And that is devastating. But it also has the effect of emphasizing to the others how important they are to each other. You know, if you lose somebody, then you become more aware of the importance of the people that you still have.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And like in adolescence, where teenagers and people who are growing up often come to the realization of is that there's nothing more important than the people in your lives. And the feelings that come up when you're developing relationships with people. So love is really something that really kind of rose to the surface this season and the different forms it takes.

[Dan Erickson]

I also think the dilemma that we've always faced in the show and sort of the interesting question of the show is the Innies versus the outies in terms of the character. Right. Who are we siding with as an audience? And hopefully that you're seeing both sides of each person in their stories that you can identify with. So that, especially for Mark, I think that we've developed the story of his Audi and his Innie, and the question of who is more important in terms of what Mark himself wants, you know, what? Marcus outy Mark's innie. And that's been an interesting balance to try to figure out throughout the course of the second season, because really, I think the season was heading towards this final conversation that Mark has in episode 210 with himself and who's the good guy, who's the bad guy? And that ending of the season for us was, I think, you know, the relationship between Mark and Helly is so strong, but then the relationship between Mark and Gemma is so strong too. And I think that was one of the hopes we had this season, was that we could sort of create a case for both relationships and, you know, let the audience have to struggle also with how they feel about that, as Mark himself has to sort of figure out, too.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dan Erickson]

Hey, should we go to the hotline and see what some of these hotline questions are?

[Adam Scott]

That's a good idea.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

All right, let's go to the first hotline question.

[Adam Scott]

Hi, Sean F. Here. Christmas is my favorite holiday and I absolutely love it. So it was very funny to me that Gemma's idea of torture was writing thank you notes for Christmas gifts in this very drab Christmas setting.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

That made me curious as to whether.

[Adam Scott]

Or not any of you really hate Christmas or how you feel about it in general. I particularly love to know if Dan Erickson likes or doesn't like Christmas and whether or not that's why that particular scene made it into the show. Thank you and praise, Kier.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

It's a very good question, but I do want to say I love Christmas. I've always loved Christmas. What I hate is having to write thank you notes. And that is a very specific and petty gripe that I have that I've had since childhood. I feel like I was sort of working through that via the show. When I was a kid. My parents would always make us write fairly specific thank you notes for each gift that we would get where it was just like, you know, dear Grandpa, thank you for the sled. I'm going to use it next time we go to Yadda Yadda. And yeah, I was just always very salty about that as a young kid. I was like, well, it's not even worth getting the presents if I have.

[Ben Stiller]

To write the stupid note.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

And so, yeah, this was my way of working through that long standing trauma from my childhood. But I love Christmas and I hope people don't think that I'm sitting here in my Grinch suit writing the episodes. That's not what it is. It's about the note.

[Adam Scott]

Love's Christmas hates.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Thank you gratitude.

[Dan Erickson]

Okay, that's good to know. Did you ever get a degrouter for Christmas?

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I never did. Maybe that's why I have issues because I never got a degrouter like I always wanted.

[Dan Erickson]

You also never had Robbie Benson sitting and just watching you write the notes.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Well, you don't know that.

[Dan Erickson]

Well, that's true. Oh, interesting. Okay, let's look into that one.

[Adam Scott]

All right, we have time for one more hotline question.

[Sza]

Hi, this is Beth J. Calling from New Hampshire, a state you may or may not know. Anyway, I was hoping to get more information on the new snacks in the vending machine, specifically cut beans. Could you tell us more about that? Is that a Dan creation? Do you have an example of a cut bean? Anyway, that's all for now. Thanks. Praise here.

[Adam Scott]

It's a very good question, Dan.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

It's a really good question. This is something that I. Yeah, I fear people are reading more into than what I necessarily intended. A cut bean is simply a bean that has been cut in any way. I imagine that, like it's been cut sort of width wise down the middle to make it slimmer and easier to eat. But look, a bean is. A bean can be kind of a daunting thing to eat if it is uncut. You know, sometimes you gotta cut the bean and make it more palatable.

[Adam Scott]

And what about. What's the one that was my favorite? The charred one you came up with wet chard.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Wet chard was my favorite.

[Melissa Woodward]

Yeah.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I don't know if that ended up in the show, but there was one of the ones that we talked about was wet chard, which to me that's so the most troubling thing is like, how does it stay wet? Like, how long have those packages been in the vending machine and have they just been sort of.

[Adam Scott]

I could have sworn wet chard was in the vending machine in the little kitchen area.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I think it's in there. Yeah. I don't know if you.

[Adam Scott]

If it made it on camera.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah, if it made it on camera, but it's definitely in there.

[Dan Erickson]

I would just say with the cut beans, there's an obvious reference to severance in the cut bean. Because isn't being cut. Isn't that sort of like a term, like a slang term for being severed? Yeah, cut.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

And you just said like cutting a bean down the middle, sort of like severing. You know, I just, I'm just saying.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I think that may have just been like a subconscious thing. I don't think I intended that, but maybe it just bubbled up.

[Adam Scott]

Maybe that's what they refer to us, like on the streets. They're just beans over there. Yeah.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I'm imagining Mark getting like, approached by a bunch of like, greaser guys and they're like, hey, cut bean. That's right, you're on our turf.

[Adam Scott]

That's for the musical version.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Uh huh. Coming this fall.

[Adam Scott]

Hey, everybody, thank you for these messages. You can call the telephone post box of Lumen Industries severed floor at 212-830-3816. Dan, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Thank you guys so much. It's always a pleasure and a joy.

[Dan Erickson]

Dan, you're so much more than a brain in a jar. You're a human being in a jar.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

I have so many organs, you guys, you don't even know.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, stop bragging.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Thank you guys.

[Adam Scott]

All right, it's time for us to take a quick break. When we come back, Ben and I will have the hosts of the podcast. We know severance. One thing I'm going to take away from our conversation with Dan is that even the smallest gripe can lead to a beautiful scene. For our show, childhood anxiety towards writing thank you cards was channeled into one of Gemma's innies. Grueling tasks. And while sometimes holding onto annoyances and fears from your youth can inspire creativity in adulthood, one thing you don't have to hold onto is worrying about getting your own insurance separate from your parents plan. With State Farm by your side, taking the next step with your own insurance won't be anxiety invoking. You might even want to write a thank you card. Your State Farm agent is here to help support you when it's time to get your own policy. And if things get complicated, State Farm gives you lots of ways to get help too. Whether you prefer in person over the phone on statefarm.com or through the app your agent is there to help. So if it's time to get off your parents insurance and into your own, go to statefarm.com severance to find out how State Farm can help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Jeff Probst]

Hey, it's me, Jeff Probst. I'm excited to share that Survivor's back with our 48th season and alongside it we're bringing you a brand new season of On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast. If you are a Survivor super fan, you will not want to miss the deep dive into every episode. And we do it from three different points of view. First you have me, the showrunner Survivor, answering how and why we made the sometimes controversial choices we did. Then you have Jay Wolf, my co host who represents the superfan asking the burning questions that you are shouting at your TVs. And finally you get the point of view of an all time great Survivor player and their job is to give us the insight into exactly what is happening on the beach this season. We are joined by somebody I can't wait to hear from the winner of Survivor 47, Rachel Lamont. I'm so excited to join the On Fire squad to help break down Survivor 48.

[Melissa Woodward]

Join us every Wednesday immediately following the show.

[Jeff Probst]

Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor Podcast with me Jeff Probst every Wednesday after the show, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Adam Scott]

If Lumen was using our partner ZipRecruiter to help hire for various roles, they would love how ZipRecruiter allows them to search resumes quickly via keywords like goat wrangler. Talk to qualified refiners the very next day and enhance their job posts with selling points like Amazing Work Life Balance. If you're a business owner who needs to hire, ZipRecruiter has all these tools and features and more and they're designed to make hiring faster and easier. See for yourself when you try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com severance ZipRecruiter excels at speed. Its smart technology starts showing your job to qualified candidates immediately. And if you've got your eye on an exceptional candidate, you can use ZipRecruiter's invite to apply message to personally reach out to them. Plus, ZipRecruiter is the hiring site employers prefer the Most based on G2. See how much faster and easier hiring can be with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employees employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. It's better than a waffle party. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com severance right now to try it for free. That's ZipRecruiter.com S E V E R A N C E hey, guys.

[Josh Wigler]

Hey, everybody.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

Hello.

[Josh Wigler]

How's it going?

[Adam Scott]

How's it going?

[Josh Wigler]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Sza]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Wigler]

It's really happening.

[Dan Erickson]

So we're very excited that we get to talk with a few of our favorite podcasters. The hosts of the we know Severance Podcast, Josh Wigler, Melissa Woodward, and Amanda Rabinowitz. Welcome.

[Adam Scott]

Thanks for being here, you guys.

[Josh Wigler]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having us on your Boutique Severance podcast. I mean, we really needed to give you a boost pretty late in the game. We're thrilled to do it.

[Dan Erickson]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

We tried to do our part.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, we appreciate it. First of all, tell us, like, where you guys are in the world and how you started this thing. Like, what was the impetus and just, like, what was the beginning of this whole thing?

[Josh Wigler]

So, Adam, we are Survivor fans. We come to this through Survivor, really know Severance Podcast, which is hosted on rhap, which is Rob has a podcast, which is Rob Sestornino, who calls himself the Rob that sucks, because he got voted out by Boston Rob after being really awesome at Survivor on his first season. He is the grandmaster for whom we podcast on his network. And so we were all Survivor fans. We all got to know each other that way, and we wanted to do some kind of a podcast. And to me, as I was watching the first couple of episodes, it made all the sense in the world that the only two people to podcast about this show should be people who understand the neuroscience behind it. So that's Amanda and that's Melissa. They're the brains behind this operation.

[Adam Scott]

Wow. Okay.

[Dan Erickson]

What do you guys do, Amanda and Melissa?

[Unknown]

I am a clinical neuropsychologist. So this is Amanda. I'm actually Dr. Amanda is my podcast moniker and my professional moniker. Yeah, I'm a clinical neuropsychologist. I study traumatic brain injury rehabilitation. So really, really fascinated by memory and emotion and the neuroscience behind all of those things. So when Josh let us know that Severance was going to be our jam, he was right. It is very, very much our jam. Melissa is also a neuroscientist. I'll let her int.

[Melissa Woodward]

Yeah, so I'm. I graduated with a PhD in neuroscience. I'm from Vancouver, Canada, and my research specialized in neuroimaging. So, like, MRI brain imaging for people with kind of severe schizophrenia. And so anytime we see pictures of the brain on there or anything related to any of this stuff. Amanda and I get very excited about it because it's been so cool to see that it's. There's clearly been so much thought and effort put into that to make it as accurate as, you know, a sci fi type show can be. We're very impressed with, which is great.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Josh Wigler]

Yeah. So we like to say it's Dr. Amanda, Dr. Melissa, and also Josh on the podcast. And also Josh, introduce ourselves. Yes.

[Dan Erickson]

What's your feeling in terms of, in the real world of the severance procedure, the possibility of something like that actually becoming real?

[Melissa Woodward]

Yeah. I think we talk so often about how the show does such a good job of taking technology that we have today and just going like a few steps down the road. And so particularly things like the reintegration with that trans magnetic stimulation, like machine. Amanda and I talked all about brain waves and kind of the things that it's currently used for, like treating chronic depression and helping people quit smoking. And so I think the severance chip itself is probably a little bit further down the road in terms of what we can currently do. But it's very cool that it gets implanted in the part of the brain that's associated with memory. We talk a lot about the fact that your, like, emotional memories might be harder to deal with. And it seems like we're seeing a lot of that exploration on the show just because it's so integrated with other parts of the brain that associate kind of emotion and fear processing. So it's just very. Yeah, I think like the chip itself is maybe not a technology that we have, but so much of this relies on our current understanding of neurology, which is very, very cool.

[Dan Erickson]

Wow.

[Adam Scott]

And Lumen's use of the chip is obviously they could be doing good or bad with it. Do you think that with technology like this, it could be used for good and possibly even life saving procedures, like if there is a traumatic brain injury, schizophrenia, something like that, and you could sort of separate and start anew with a new personality or part of like, do you see it as something that could be a good tool if it were real?

[Unknown]

It's such a fascinating question. And this is why, like, I love sci fi shows like Severance, because it gets you thinking about the neuroethics and the implication of what it would mean to have this technology. Because obviously there are a lot of reasons that we could think that. Wouldn't it be great? I mean, that was kind of Dan's whole premise. Like, I Hate being at work. Right. I want to flip my brain off while I'm at work. There's Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which is an application to sort of cure heartache. And the show really starts to play with what might be those unintended consequences or implications of something, even if it is developed for a good ends. And furthermore, like, what's to stop anybody else from exploiting that good the way that Lumen Industries does? So, I mean, I think severance, one of the reasons we geek out about it so hard is because it's sci fi at its best. Like the way Melissa said, kind of pushing our world a little bit more into the future and then really delving into all of the implications of what that would mean.

[Melissa Woodward]

Yeah, I had a neuroethics lecture my first year of grad school in which we basically explored this idea of if you could come up with some sort of memory erasing technology for people with PTSD specifically. And then there was a lot of pushback amongst my classmates talking about potential, like, what are the kind of negative implications of that? But there was also this really kind of significant component of some people are really experiencing, like, debilitating ptsd. So it could also be helpful in some scenarios. But yeah, as Amanda said, the great thing about a show like this is we get to have these neuroethics conversations before the technology is available, which is the time to have them. Not once it's already out there in the world.

[Josh Wigler]

Right. But the good news is I think that we can all agree that whoever would have the power to distribute such a thing would be very ethical about it anyway. Absolutely. We just look around our world today and like, clearly it would. Would be dealt with quite responsibly.

[Adam Scott]

Of course, I think we can trust any big tech CEO with technology like this. No worries.

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, but that is an interesting question. Can you actually suppress a memory? And because I think everything that I've learned over the years through just my own sort of process of having gone to therapy and just the idea of what people talk about in terms of coming to terms with traumatic experiences and being able to work through in some way that the question of like, actually suppressing something, I think we talk about it a lot in the show. This idea. Can love transcend severance? Can emotions? You know, can you do that even if the place in your mind where the memory exists was somehow cut off? Is it somehow experienced in your body and in your person and you know who you are?

[Unknown]

Yeah, you're totally right about that Ben. And it's. I mean, it's amazing. Like, you know, in Severance, you bring the pain with you down there, Mark. You feel it there too. And this is. You know, we see this in our world in real life, after a very severe traumatic brain injury, people can't make new memories for a period of time. It's called post traumatic amnesia. And there might be, you know, days or months when they're not forming new memories, but if I go into a room and they have a bad experience with me, the next time they see me, they're not going to like me. Because that emotional part of your memory that's making that association is still intact, even if your memory for the facts, the declarative memory of the episode is not intact. So memory is dissociable in that way. And I think that that's a really great thing that's been very accurately portrayed in the show.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, that's such an interesting idea because, I mean, I find that also in everyday life sometimes you probably know what this is, but I'll go somewhere that I haven't been for a long time into a new environment, and then all of a sudden it'll trigger a memory of something because that memory happened, you know, in that environment.

[Melissa Woodward]

Yeah, we talk about set and setting a lot. And so the. The people that you're with, the environment that you're in. A lot of this. We often think about it in terms of addictions research, but there's a lot of different impact that those kind of factors can have. And certainly in terms of memory, but also in terms of behavior.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, or a smell.

[Melissa Woodward]

Totally smells.

[Sza]

A big one.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So you guys both got PhDs in neuroscience to do this show, right?

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, yeah. No, but I. To acting class. And in acting class, I mean, literally, you know, a lot of the work that, like, if you're taught, like, you know, method stuff like sense memory that you're taught is about if you're trying to get in touch with emotions, say, you know, you have to have an emotional scene where you have to cry or something awful happened, and, you know, you have a memory that might connect with that. You're taught to recreate in your mind the circumstance, the place, the smells, the sounds, the room that you were in when this happened, or the person you were with and not try to pull on actually like feeling the emotion, but just recreating the setting. And that can unlock emotion for an actor.

[Josh Wigler]

I would be curious to know, just like for you, Adam, did that come into play at the start of this Season. Because when we launch into season two, we are picking up right on that energy from the end of season one and recreating that scene on the immediate other side of the wake up. Did you have to tap into that.

[Adam Scott]

As an actor, like, waking up in the elevator seconds after we left off in season one? Yeah, we tried to find the exact level of where we had left off, certainly. And then also when we went back to Devin and Rickon's house and picked up right after, then it was kind of the same thing. And, yeah, I was trying to figure out, like, what exactly was I thinking about when we shot that three years ago? And can I find that exact same thing for this? And I think the more specific you get with stuff like that and like, what Ben was talking about with music or a particular smell or whatever, it really works. At least for me. That stuff really is really strong.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. And the actors have to do that a lot on the show. You know, especially in the elevator, it seems like, you know, like, all of a sudden, like, pick up. And Brit had to do it, you know, in season two.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

And she was, you know, having to kind of go through where Helly was the end of episode four, and then into the beginning of episode five, where these, like, last few moments of her consciousness were going all the way back to the end of season one. And when you really think about that, the actors are having to do that in these very sort of unnatural settings a lot of the time.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

So can I ask you guys for this season and doing your podcast about the show, like, what was the most interesting, the most fun aspect of it for you as you went along? What was it that you really, like, engaged with in the show this season?

[Josh Wigler]

I think for me, probably the thing that was the most fun was the sort of this promise that eventually Innie and Outie must collide. And I think with where we left off in season one, there is this hope that we are going to get to see what life looks like for some of these people once they clock out. You know, we certainly get to see that between Mark Scout and Mark S. But you want to know what Dylan's up to when he's not just in the closet talking to Milchick. And we got that stuff. And it was always fascinating to learn something a little new about Dylan and Gretchen. For instance, I think just the character work this season and a really heavy task that you all had narratively of this huge act of rebellion at the end of season one cannot help but be, you know, fully examined over the Course of season two, just the fallout of that has to be such a focus. So the narrative has been very twisty and turny, and I think that that, for me, ultimately is what's keeping me locked in.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of stuff, but I have to say, the one thing that's been particularly fun is in the very first episode of season two, Milchek says that Cobell was trying to pursue Mark's innie and outie in what could be termed a throuple. And we've seen a lot of love geometry happening in throughout all of season two with innies and outies and multiple layers of relationships. So that's been one of these fun things to follow and, like, really getting to the heart of the question, like, who are you? Right. Like, is any Dylan and Audi Dillon the same person? What does that mean to Gretchen and their relationship? All of the intricate love geometry between Mark and Helena? I mean, it's been really fun to watch that play out.

[Josh Wigler]

And I think locking into that question of who are you? And understanding that those first words spoken in severance are such a core, fundamental idea throughout the show and catching the little bits, like, that's one of the very first things that Mark ever says to Gemma when they both meet at the blood drive. So as much as we've been examining the science of the show, I think it's been getting more existential. You know, we're bringing religion into it with fields at the table, and I think that it's just gotten deeper.

[Adam Scott]

And it's so funny you mentioned that emotional memory. And it makes me think of the Chinese restaurant scene, you know, did you.

[Josh Wigler]

Have to eat all that food?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, it was delicious.

[Josh Wigler]

This is a huge order.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. I mean, I go full. And so I ate. I don't know, how many pounds of Chinese food did I eat that night? Ben, it was crazy.

[Dan Erickson]

I don't know. You were voracious, though.

[Josh Wigler]

There's a lot of noodles. This is very carb heavy.

[Unknown]

How many eggs at the egg bar social?

[Adam Scott]

A lot of eggs. A lot of eggs.

[Dan Erickson]

My nightmare. But apparently reintegration makes you hungry. That's one of the side effects.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Melissa Woodward]

Your brain needs glucose. It makes sense.

[Adam Scott]

Yep. There you go. Well, we can't thank you guys enough. I mean, this is just incredible getting to talk to you.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, I'd love to talk to you more sometime about all the sort of the actual reality connections for the show. Because I do think having people who understand psychology and neuroscience. You know, I remember when we went to the first season, we were doing research and we went to visit our consultant at a hospital in New York and just seeing the fluoroscope for the first time. And I remember thinking, oh, this is so crazy and so cool because it's almost like an X ray, but it's like a live X ray, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

And I remember thinking, wow, this could look really cool in the show. But then it's also like the reality of all this stuff is of course, the most important thing, but, like, we're always trying to kind of figure out ways to show stuff that's also visually interesting and that you can distill down enough that the audience can get it within the show. So that balance is always, you know, it's always a little bit challenging. We're always trying to push it as far as we can go, but hopefully still have it resonate with reality.

[Unknown]

You've nailed it in our book for sure.

[Dan Erickson]

Well, thanks. Well, it's great to talk to you guys.

[Josh Wigler]

You as well. And thanks for all you do.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much.

[Josh Wigler]

We're so grateful and very, very intrigued about season three. Cannot wait to see where this whole thing is going next.

[Adam Scott]

Dr. Amanda, Dr. Melissa, Josh. Thank you. This was a real treat.

[Dan Erickson]

All right. That was great. I really enjoyed talking to those very smart people.

[Adam Scott]

We have smart fans.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, it's time for us to take a quick break, but when we come back, we will be talking with sza.

[Ben Stiller]

The MDR team continues to search for answers as they try to piece together memories from the overtime contingency. But luckily, you don't have to take a mind erasing elevator to work every day. So your workplace productivity can be much simpler. With Confluence by Atlassian. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before. Where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for while discovering important context they didn't even know they needed a space where any AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. So goodbye severed workplace alienation. Hello, teamwork with Confluence. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn [e-mail] Confluence that's Atlanta. L a s s I a-n.com c o n f l u e dash n c e.

[Adam Scott]

This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. I can confidently leave my cards at home because I have my iPhone. From grabbing coffee to catching a ride, I tap with Apple Pay, add your cards in the wallet app and you're ready. Just double click the side button, smile for face ID and tap to pay your card number and your purchases stay secured. Pay the Apple Way with your compatible device anywhere contactless payment is accepted. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, llc, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer. You work hard and you push limits. But when it comes to comfort, you don't cut corners. That's why Rhone created the Rainn Collection, where effortless softness meets relentless performance. A modern take on the classic T. Rain delivers next level comfort with advanced technology. Gold Fusion anti odor technology, UPF 50 sun protection. Its softness you'll love and performance you'll rely on. From morning workouts to late night wind downs, Rain moves with you. Its easy care, effortless style, and built to keep up so you can slow down when you need to. Because life doesn't pause and neither should you. Comfort shouldn't come at the cost of performance. The Rain Collection delivers all day softness with high tech functionality so you can move through life without limits. Get 20% [e-mail] severance with code severance, that's R H O N E. Severance with code severance at checkout.

[Sza]

Hello?

[Adam Scott]

Hey, it's Adam.

[Sza]

Hello.

[Adam Scott]

Hi, Sza.

[Dan Erickson]

Hey, how are you? It's Ben.

[Sza]

I know. Hi, how are you? That's so crazy. Good morning.

[Dan Erickson]

Thank you for doing this.

[Sza]

I adore you so much. You brought me so much joy and inspiration my entire life. And it's so funny that like, you're bringing me so much joy and inspiration in this whole other way with severance. And it's like, you're so genius. And part of me was like, damn, this is kind of dark. But they say the funniest people are like low key kind of dark and like really masterful at that. So it's like, damn, your mind is so twisted. I just want to know where this came from. I have so many questions for you, but I'm going to shut the fuck up.

[Dan Erickson]

Okay, well, no, you can ask questions.

[Sza]

Both of you. Oh my God. I can't believe this happened.

[Adam Scott]

I have to say, the collaboration between the two of you though, and the video is incredible. Like, you guys have already made something just terrific together.

[Sza]

I literally, I just can't thank you enough. I can't even believe you said yes because. Okay, full transparency, right? They tried to get me to concede to John Cena and I was like, no. I said, I love John Cena. First off, shout out to Finance John Cena. But I was like, no, I need my Ben. Like, please, yes, please. I need my band. And I just can't even believe you said, yeah. And they were like, no, no, no. Like, it's too far fetched. It's never gonna happen. And I'm just like, okay, well, I. I can't see it in any other way.

[Dan Erickson]

I'm so happy. I'm so happy that John Cena didn't get this role. You know, it's always between me and Cena.

[Sza]

God damn it.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. You guys are always up against each other.

[Sza]

You have to kill him. I think probably.

[Dan Erickson]

And by the way, I just have to say congrats on the Super Bowl. That was literally, to me, like my favorite super bowl halftime show ever. I thought it was incredible on so many levels.

[Adam Scott]

It was, it was amazing.

[Dan Erickson]

Was it fun to do? Was. I just wonder about that because it's like the biggest stage in the world, really. Like, so many people watching. Like, what's your mindset when you go out and perform like that?

[Sza]

Okay. So I was really shook only because it's like, it is that it's the biggest stage I. I'll ever do, like, in my career. It's like, I don't really know where I can go from there. So I was just like, I don't know if I'm going to survive. And my performance was initially like, longer with a different song. I was actually relieved that I had less opportunity to harm myself on camera or in public. And I was like, oh, my God. I just couldn't believe that I was part of it. But I did a lot of meditation, a lot of breath work, which I normally don't do, but I've learned recently, I'm just, it's kind of saving my life. Like low key meditation and breath work and like following that road. It's the only thing that keeps me calm. This one lady in Bali read my palm recently and I never had my palm read before. And she was like, if you don't get your emotions under control, you're going to go to jail and they're going to get justice. And I was like, oh my God.

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, shit.

[Sza]

And I believed her. I believed her.

[Dan Erickson]

Right.

[Sza]

And I just don't want that for myself. So that really like kind of triggered me to dive into yoga headfirst. And now I'm just like, nah.

[Dan Erickson]

Right.

[Sza]

And I'm a calm person.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. Yeah. So listen, tell us, what was it about severance that like, what's for you, the most interesting thing? What is it? About the show that made you reach out on Twitter to me to tell me to get going and get the segments.

[Sza]

Yeah, giddy the fuck up because what? Oh my God.

[Adam Scott]

That was a big deal. That was a big deal when you did that. We were all freaking out.

[Sza]

First off, forgive my tone.

[Dan Erickson]

No, no, no, it was awesome. It was great.

[Sza]

I would never say that to you, Ben. But also literally, okay, so season one, right? I was making SOS and you know, I'm swimming in my head a lot. And my engineer and I. My engineer is super different, right? He comes from Shangri La, which is like Rick Rubin Studio, which they have like their own, like, ecosystem and ethos of like, way of doing things. Everybody's wearing the same color, nobody's talking. Like, it's. They're very. It's very severance coded. So like my engineer was like, oh yeah, I'm watching this new show, whatever. And I'm like, we're so different. Like, I'm just so curious. So I started watching it and by like the last three episodes, I was calling him at like five in the morning to be like, are you fucking kidding? Like, do you see what's happening here? I was like yelling at the screen. I was. My tummy was tight. And then I just had to show it to everyone I knew. I'm like, no, we need to watch this together. Okay, come over and we'll sit through it. And I did it like four or five times with different friends and it was just so. It was so interesting. I had never seen anything quite like that before. And it spoke to this weird, like, exploitive nature that not even the external, like consumerist, like reality has on our being, but like our own exploitive nature and our search for convenience and like apparent laziness and. Or the fact that we don't even know the full extent of half of the pathways we choose for convenience, right? And the fact that we don't consider ourselves as like multi dimensional beings, all these different parts of ourselves, and it's like, think about the observer. Like the person who's watching the person that's thinking. And then it's like, who's watching that person that's watching you think about these things? Like all those parts of you are fragmented. Is there any. What part of your fragmented consciousness is that? What does it mean in terms of your general well being? Like, if Mark is fucked up constantly as any. Did his outy finally just realize that on his own, had he not run into anybody, would he have just eventually felt like, I don't Know I feel empty. Or how everybody at home in their regular lives was a little bit empty. Empty, emptier. But it's also like, what is that? Is it because they're severed? Or were they already empty, which is why they agreed to get severed in the first place? I just love that fucking show so much. I really do. I just love it.

[Adam Scott]

That's amazing.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, I totally agree with you, though. The idea of, like, the observer. Of the observer. Like, what is our consciousness? And I thought about that a lot when we were making the first season. The question of, like, well, if Mark's Audi is going there because he doesn't want to experience the pain, but who is he really? Because when he becomes his innie, he's still Mark. So Mark isn't going to experience that pain on the inside, but his Audi is still existing in the world. But not. It's just like, the question of, like, who really is Mark? Is Mark his innie or his Audi? And you articulated it really well. That idea of the observer of, like, when we're going through life, but yet there's somebody outside of us going like, okay, well, but what is all this? You know, I feel that way some sometimes. And you're right, there's, like, very deep questions that the concept brings up.

[Sza]

And then it's like you keep introducing us to deeper levels and layouts of Lumen. It's like, bro, what the fuck is Lumen? Like, is it a cult? Is it religion? Is it. What are you at? What's the end goal of Lumen in every department? What is the actual end goal? Like, is Mark gonna die when he gets completely, like, freed of this? Like, I just. I mean. Cause if Mark dies, obviously, I take Mark's place and then we move forward.

[Dan Erickson]

Season three. I think we have a season three.

[Adam Scott]

That would be amazing, actually. Hey, Sza, I want to ask you about. You mentioned Shangri La and how it's like, Severance coded and it's sort of this neutral environment. So you're in there and you're only focusing on the creative in front of you, just focusing on the music. And does that work for you? Did that help? Like, what was that like, when I.

[Sza]

Was at Shangri La in Malibu, I think the whole idea of it being Sanguilat in my brain just, like, cooked me. So I was like, I can't make anything here. I'm in the Beatles bus. Like, the actual Beatles bus. But then when I randomly, like, locked myself in Rick's bedroom and he, like, cleared it out of. All devoid of all furniture, of all things. And just, like, allowed me to stay in there for, like, two weeks. In Kauai, everything came to life. It was weird. It was like. There's something about the absence of items and anything that forces your brain to, like, flood with all these things. I actually find the same concept to be true. At the ashram, I just did a vow of silence in India. No eye contact, no mirrors, no gestures of any kind. And it was very like you were finding out who your innie was and finding out, like, all the aspects of. But only from stripping everything did all this stuff come to the surface. And I. I think it speaks to how much we distract ourselves with anything because we welcome that, because it's actually a bit too much. Existence is actually a bit too much if we keep it plain and simple. Especially the acceptance that it's all chaotic and unfair and inherently dangerous. And, like, not this predestined, faded safe space where, like, if we try really hard, everything will turn out the way we. We like it or we need it to. It's really just this place where it's like, no, you're gonna constantly be finding meaning for awful things that seem awful or that unfold in ways that you're powerless over for the rest of your life. And understanding the beauty and the flow, the ebb and flow, I guess, and accepting that and, like, becoming part of that versus, like, someone that's having control or fake control, or under the belief, the farce, that you have control at all, or making your world smaller by minimizing it or doing things like trying to sever yourself. I think severance really speaks to so many aspects of my life right now and what I'm exploring and what I'm learning. Even my home. I just started putting shit on my walls and, like, color on my floor. After five years of living in this house, it was just all white forever. And I just started. I don't know. I came back from India and I was like, color, realization, life. And it's just so crazy how, like, even that. But it took me to accept all this turmoil inside, to allow something to be, like, manifested on the outside or to have disarray or any sort of expression that was impermanent on the outside. Cause I was so scared of impermanence, I didn't want to produce anything that reflected my personality or my essence or art. And I feel like that fear is so crippling to all of us in different areas of our life.

[Adam Scott]

And is that why you're saying once you were in that room and everything was stripped away. That's when SOS it kind of sprouted to life, is when absolutely everything was stripped away.

[Sza]

Yes. Literally, it was nothing but just a wooden chair and a wooden room and a single computer. It was nuts.

[Adam Scott]

Wow. Well, it's an unbelievable album. It's beautiful.

[Sza]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, it is. And have you always had that inclination to do things like that? To push yourself to disconnect and look inward and do those things? Because a lot of people never do that. You know, I've never gone to an ashram in India, you know, and taken a vow of silence or done things like, is it motivated by your creativity? Has it always been the way you are in terms of wanting to go inside and to really explore that stuff?

[Sza]

Well, I think all people have their opportunity to go within. Right. The universe creates it for all of us. Whether it's a tragedy that forces you to look inward, whether it's a personal inequity that you are grappling with that makes you sit still or a breakup, or even sometimes when shit is going super well. For some people, it's freaky, and they have to sit down and, like, account for their existence and, like, all these other things. But for me, I think. I think I was curious. My curiosity is so strong, it actually combats my fear. Like, it over. It overrides my fear all the time. And I have a lot of fear. Like, I'm actually. It's so interesting. I've never met anyone as fearful and as brave as myself. And it's so weird because I'm so terrified of everything. Like, India was the farthest I've ever been from my home. And then it's like, I turn in my phone. I don't know anybody. I'm around thousands of people. I'm not gonna be looking at anyone that. No gestures. No. I can get kicked out at any moment if anyone catches me making a gesture. If I fall ill, you can't communicate with anyone, and you have to just handle that yourself. And my immune system is so American and fucking obliterated. So I'm like, oh, my God, I'm never gonna live. I'm never gonna survive. So I'm just like, that's incredible. I'm scared. But I had the best time.

[Dan Erickson]

That's amazing. Good for you. I mean, that's incredible. I mean. And I agree, the dichotomy of being fearful and brave is kind of. I think, a lot of what creativity is about, too, right? In terms of, like, just taking chances and really I mean, otherwise, why are you doing it? Unless you're trying to learn something about yourself?

[Sza]

I want to know what's under there. It's like, I think so much. I was talking to my therapist, and she was like, you know that, like, ultimately you're okay. And I was like, what? I'm actually not okay? And she was like, no, ultimately you're breathing right now. You're breathing and you're in a safe space and you have autonomy, like, over yourself and as a version of you that nobody can touch and, like, that is safe within you and blah, blah. And I was like, oh. And then I was like, but who is that person? Who is that? Who's that person that money can touch and where does her value lie? Like? And I was like, oh, shit, who am I? And so that's what really sparked that journey of, like, oh, I don't know who I am or what I'm even protecting, like, inside, or, like, what do I want? What do I. Like, just, who am I outside of my outer value to others, Even if it's like, oh, I want to do yoga so I can become more likable. Like, that's wrong direction again. Like, the whole point is, who are you? So that's the deeper question. And to find out that, like, so many things. And I think that the desire to find out strip back more layers and peel back more limitations is, like, that's what's pushing me to keep seeking, I guess.

[Josh Wigler]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Dan Erickson]

That's the severance question, right?

[Josh Wigler]

Who are you?

[Sza]

I know.

[Dan Erickson]

All right, listen, this has been amazing. We have one hotline question that we want to play for you. Can we play that question?

[Sza]

Hi, Ben and Adam.

[Melissa Woodward]

I'm Lita and I'm a chronically online Gen Z er.

[Sza]

So I was wondering, naturally, what the zodiac signs of the severance cast would be. Oh, my God. Scorpio vibes from Heli and Helena. So it'd be nice to know their zodiac signs.

[Dan Erickson]

Thank you. Are you an astrology person, Sizzle?

[Sza]

I am, I am. Okay, okay, okay. It's gonna be so. It's actually so easy for me. So Mark is giving Taurus because he's grounded, but he's also curious and, like, his love for his partners actually was driving his curiosity. It's not that he wants to uncover some. Like, he's accidentally uncovering some crazy cover up, but it's really in the midst of, like, where the fuck is Gemma? And then Helly actually is giving Scorpio vibes, but she's almost too villainous. Like Scorpio would be like Ms. Cobell, because she's grappling between. Like, I really just am passionate about this one thing and I'm a little mentally unstable, but I do have a really serious revenge clause, like, in my being. Helly gives more like Capricorn, where it's like, what must be done must be done, and the casualties are what they are, but accidentally got some dick along the way. And then you have. Then you have, of course, Dylan and Irving. Irving is classic. Like, older Virgo, like, very conservative, but, like, yearns for more. Highly analytical. Nothing got past him. Cause he totally realized that something was wrong with Halle and she was on bullshit and was willing to take it to the max. Dylan is giving water sign down like Cancer, but soft, soft like Pisces cancer. Really wants to know what his children are like. Oh, my offspring wants to just sit and talk to his wife in private. Then let's see. Oh, fucking Milch Milchick. Milchick reeks of. Okay, he's so anal, but also yearns for more. He's Sagittarius. He gives fire. He gives Sagittarius where it's like, Milchick will do whatever the fuck and it might surprise you and he's not playing at all, but he has his own things that he's grappling with in his own private time. And he's deeply analytical and he has his own curiosities about what's happening to him.

[Dan Erickson]

Wow. Well, I'm a Sagittarius. I'm all for Milchick as a Sagittarius.

[Sza]

Oh, that makes so much sense. You'll say anything. Oh, my God. Please know that I'm about to. To binge watch, like, all your movies when I get off the phone because I'm like that.

[Dan Erickson]

By the way, congrats on your movie. You're doing it.

[Adam Scott]

You're.

[Dan Erickson]

You're doing it.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God, it's amazing.

[Sza]

It's so scary. You guys are crazy to pick that as a profession, huh?

[Adam Scott]

It is insane, right? It is.

[Sza]

It's so crazy. I want to. I want to dive more in and just like study more and be better. Just like kind of become another person.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. Well, you're amazing as you are and we really, really appreciate you. It's great to talk to you. Thanks for coming on. Have a great year. Coming up, I hear you're going to go out and perform and it's going to be really exciting. I'm going to come see you and you're just awesome.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you. Yeah. And just as fans of yours, we're so lucky that you are someone who is searching and asking all of these questions and reinventing yourself with each record you put out. It's all just such interesting, boundary pushing music. And we're just so lucky to have you on the podcast, but also just as an artist.

[Sza]

Thank you, Adam. I'm such a huge fan of both of you. I just. You have no idea. I just feel like everything you guys is doing is actually like, not to be like it's fucking groundbreaking, but it kind of is like no bullshit, like it's fucking groundbreaking. And I feel like the ideas that you're introducing to the mind and to the young mind are important and. Are you not going to tell me what happens to Gemma for real? Is that not the person at all? What the fuck? That's why I came here.

[Adam Scott]

Well, you know, just keep watching.

[Sza]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Erickson]

Thank you so much.

[Sza]

Thank you so much.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you, Sza.

[Sza]

Have a blessed day.

[Dan Erickson]

All right.

[Adam Scott]

You too. Thank you. All right, that's it for this episode. This has been the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam.

[Dan Erickson]

And you can stream every episode of Severance on Apple tv and you can listen to every episode of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Audio Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Adam Scott]

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions and Great Scott Productions.

[Ben Stiller]

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Bari Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Gabrielle Lewis, Jenner Weiss Berman and Leah Rees Dennis. This show is produced by Zandra Ellen, Ben Goldberg and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil. We had additional engineering from Javi Krustas and Davey Sumner.

[Adam Scott]

Show clips are courtesy of fifth season music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kirk Courtney and Hilary Schuth.

[Ben Stiller]

And the team at Red, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Gian Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderruten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker and Oliver Agker.

[Adam Scott]

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin and Christy Smith. At Rise Management, we had additional production.

[Ben Stiller]

Help from Kristen Torres and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

And I'm Adam Scott.

[Dan Erickson]

Thanks for listening. All season long, we've loved going on this ride with you.

[Adam Scott]

Absolutely. It's been so fun.

[Dan Erickson]

We'll see you next time.

[Adam Scott]

All right. Thank you.

[Josh Wigler]

Next season on the Severance Podcast.

[Amanda Rabinowitz]

That's right.

[Sza]

You didn't think I would only predict.

[Josh Wigler]

What was going to happen on the next season of Severance. I'm also going to predict what will happen on the next season of the Severance Podcast. Next season on the Severance Podcast, I predict Ben and Adam will come to their senses and stop asking me to do this.

[Adam Scott]

TaxAct knows you probably don't need help filing taxes, but if you get stuck, we have live experts you can talk to. And who knows, you could hit it off and become long term tax friends. Staying up late at night talking about deductions, refunds, personal exemptions. Heck, you could even fall in love and create a little dependent of your own one day. Or they could just answer your filing questions. Tax Act. Let's get them over with.