Your Numbers Are Bad (with Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson)

Summary

Summary of "Your Numbers Are Bad" Episode of The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
• Host/Authors: Ben Stiller and Adam Scott
• Description: A companion podcast to the workplace thriller Severance, delving into behind-the-scenes insights, influences, and discussions with creators, cast, crew, and fans.
• Episode Title: Your Numbers Are Bad (with Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson)
• Release Date: July 24, 2025

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1. Episode Introduction (00:00 - 01:34)

The episode kicks off with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott bantering about podcast editing, setting a lighthearted tone. They introduce the podcast's focus on Severance, emphasizing their ongoing commitment to discussing the show and its influences. Ben humorously mentions that there are no new episodes being released at the moment, reinforcing the show's deep dive into Severance. The hosts then announce their special guests for the episode: Dan Erickson, the creator of Severance, and Damon Lindelof, acclaimed for co-creating Lost and creating Watchmen.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Stiller (00:10): “You know that thing where people say we're going to edit it out, but then they leave it in.”
• Adam Scott (02:03): “We're going to talk to Damon about world building, how Lost influenced Dan as a writer.”

2. Guest Introduction and Background (01:34 - 05:30)

Adam Scott expresses excitement about having Dan Erickson and Damon Lindelof on the show. He highlights Damon's extensive work in television, noting his success with Lost, Watchmen, The Leftovers, and Mrs. Davis. Ben Stiller shares his admiration for Damon’s versatility in creating shows across different platforms, emphasizing Damon's understanding of diverse production processes. The hosts joke about Damon's productivity and commitment, reflecting their camaraderie and mutual respect.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Stiller (03:13): “What people always seem to leave out is like, oh, by the way, he also was doing that for a network...”
• Adam Scott (04:35): “I'd watch that.”

3. Conversation with Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson (05:30 - 25:11)

a. Emmy Nominations and Casual Banter (05:30 - 07:15) Dan Erickson and Damon Lindelof engage in playful conversation about their Emmy nominations, referencing the "27 Club" and sharing humorous anecdotes about fan interactions, including a fictitious appearance by Katherine Heigl.

b. Early Career Insights (07:15 - 11:24) Dan Erickson recounts his journey from graduating NYU Film School to becoming a writer’s assistant on Kevin Williamson's Wasteland. He humorously recalls Adam Scott's early acting role as "Coffee Boy" in the show, which surprisingly gained popularity in Brazil despite the show's cancellation.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Erickson (08:34): “I'm a writer, and I was in the Writer's Guild and everything else.”
• Adam Scott (10:05): “Philip the Coffee Boy.”

c. Fandom and Influences (11:24 - 21:32) The discussion shifts to the nature of fandom. Damon Lindelof shares his personal connection to television shows, likening them to returning home and offering solace during lonely times. Dan Erickson elaborates on his deep-rooted love for cinema and television, influenced by his family's interests and his experiences at comic conventions. He emphasizes the role of television in shaping his storytelling approach, highlighting the balance between homage and original creation.

Notable Quotes:

• Damon Lindelof (12:22): “As I got into creating stuff, it was so important to me.”
• Dan Erickson (16:25): “We're more DJs than musicians in terms of... remixing.”

d. Mystery Box Concept and Comparative Analysis (21:32 - 35:32) The hosts delve into the "mystery box" concept, comparing Severance to Lost. They discuss how both shows leverage ongoing mysteries to engage audiences, maintaining a delicate balance between revealing information and preserving intrigue. Damon reflects on the challenges of answering central questions without diminishing the show's complexity, while Dan Erickson praises Severance for integrating its mysteries with character-driven narratives.

Notable Quotes:

• Adam Scott (28:49): “And it's just not in black and white. And that's, like. That's so cool to me.”
• Damon Lindelof (33:40): “What do I get out of this show? Did I get what I need?”

4. Hotline Questions Segment (49:22 - 55:35)

After a brief commercial break, the hosts tackle listener questions about Severance. Amanda from the U.S. inquires about the care of Mark's fish, leading to a humorous discussion about using real fish versus CG animals. The hosts share behind-the-scenes anecdotes about filming with live fish and respect for animal actors. Another listener from France, Saab, asks about releasing a photo book, prompting Ben Stiller to express enthusiasm for sharing behind-the-scenes photos.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Stiller (50:08): “Do they have names, don’t they?”
• Adam Scott (51:06): “Do you know a weird thing was when the dead seal in episode 204...”

5. Finale Discussion and Wrap-Up (55:35 - 59:54)

The conversation shifts to the creative decisions behind the show's finale freeze frame. Ben Stiller explains the inspiration drawn from classic films, detailing the technical aspects of filming the freeze frame on 35mm film to achieve a grainy, vintage effect. Adam Scott appreciates the scene's ability to leave room for audience interpretation, emphasizing the importance of providing space for viewers to process the ongoing narrative. The hosts express their gratitude towards their guests and announce a short hiatus before returning with more episodes.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Stiller (55:25): “I knew what we could do with the hallway lighting and I thought it could be really romantic and also really disturbing.”
• Adam Scott (56:14): “I love the zoom in so much.”

6. Closing Remarks and Credits (59:54 - End)

Ben Stiller and Adam Scott conclude the episode by encouraging listeners to rate and review the podcast. They reiterate the hotline number for audience questions and acknowledge their production team and contributors. The episode ends with both hosts signing off warmly, reinforcing their dedication to the Severance community.

Notable Quotes:

• Adam Scott (59:07): “If you've got a question about severance, call our hotline, 212-830-3816.”
• Ben Stiller (59:52): “I'm Ben Stiller.”
• Adam Scott (59:53): “And I'm Adam Scott.”

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Key Topics and Insights:

• Behind-the-Scenes Insights: The episode offers a deep dive into the creative processes behind Severance, drawing parallels with Damon's experience on Lost.

• Fandom and Storytelling: The hosts and guests explore the emotional connection fans develop with shows, emphasizing how personal engagement with characters enhances the viewing experience.

• Mystery Box Theory: A significant portion discusses the "mystery box" approach in storytelling, balancing narrative intrigue with character development to maintain audience interest.

• Production Anecdotes: Humorous and insightful stories about on-set decisions, such as using real fish and the technical execution of pivotal scenes like freeze frames.

• Audience Engagement: Through the hotline segment, the hosts interact directly with fans, addressing their curiosities and fostering a sense of community.

Conclusion:

"Your Numbers Are Bad" exemplifies The Severance Podcast's commitment to offering in-depth discussions about the show and its creative inspirations. By featuring esteemed guests like Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson, the episode provides valuable perspectives on storytelling, production, and fan engagement. The blend of professional insights and casual camaraderie makes the podcast both informative and entertaining, serving as a comprehensive companion for Severance enthusiasts.

Transcript

[Adam Scott]

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by the Farmer's Dog Try Fresh healthy [e-mail] severance.

[Ben Stiller]

You know that thing where people say we're going to edit it out, but then they leave it in.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But this one will definitely.

[Adam Scott]

That's a big podcast. It is, by the way, particularly before a question like, you know, you don't have to answer this. We can edit it out, but, you know.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. Or we'll edit out this whole thing and then you feel like you're let in on something that they didn't. Yeah. So this will actually be edited out.

[Adam Scott]

This 100% will not not be in the podcast.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. So there's no way anybody will hear this.

[Adam Scott]

Zero chance.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay, cool. Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

I'm Adam Scott and this is the.

[Ben Stiller]

Severance podcast with Ben and Adam where we're talking about severance and influences to severance and things that relate to severance and just severance itself. We're just going to keep talking about it.

[Adam Scott]

We're going to talk about severance.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter. There are no new episodes right now.

[Adam Scott]

No, we're just going to keep talking about, you guessed it, severance. Then what are we going to do after that?

[Ben Stiller]

Then we're going to talk about severance some more.

[Adam Scott]

Yep. And then after that we're going to talk about severance, but this time through the prism of answering your hotline questions.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Do you know why I like this podcast?

[Adam Scott]

Why is that?

[Ben Stiller]

Because I have an excuse to talk to somebody about severance.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Like you. Because you understand that it's like something.

[Adam Scott]

I'm not going to get sick of you talking about severance.

[Ben Stiller]

Sick or bored or just. You're not going to say to me, why do you keep talking about severance all the time? Yeah. But before we get to the hotline, you are going to speak to a very special guest.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. This is actually a really fun week for me because Dan Erickson is back on the show. Severance creator, of course, the big brain that we keep in a jar. And so we're taking that jar off the shelf so he and I can talk to one of our very favorite television writers. We're going to be joined by, by Emmy winning, Peabody Award winning writer Damon Lindelof. He co created a show that, you know, it's been mentioned on every episode of this podcast, a little show called Lost. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You might have heard of.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. And he also created Watchmen Co created the leftovers, Mrs. Davis. I mean, that's like a powerhouse list of shows.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I'm just excited to have Dan back on the podcast and we're going to get to talk to Damon about world building, how Lost influenced Dan as a writer. It's going to be super fun.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm excited for you to talk to him about Severance. He's so smart. I met him a few times. Really through you was able to get a bite with him once. And he's, you know, the guy has done it all in terms of television, in terms of creating a show for a streamer, creating a show for a network, creating a show for a cable channel and understanding that process because each one of those is a totally different process. And when people talk about Lost and how culturally affecting that show was and they talk about the story and the debates about the story and the endings and all that stuff, right. What people always seem to leave out is like, oh, by the way, he also was doing that for a network. 22 shows a season. For how many seasons? 5, 6 seasons.

[Adam Scott]

6.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So like to have to do that on a schedule where every September you're on the air and so he's done it all different way days. He's just really, really smart and nice.

[Adam Scott]

Can you imagine looking down the barrel of making 22 to 24 episodes of severance and knowing that you get like a six week break and then you have to make another 22 right after? Like that's what they were doing.

[Ben Stiller]

If you're lucky, right. If the ratings are good and you're top show on tv, which they were, then your reward is keep doing it. Keep, keep going. Which is hard. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Adam Scott]

Is there anything that you want me to ask him for?

[Ben Stiller]

You ask him if he knows what the ending to Severance is.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, I'm writing that.

[Ben Stiller]

Curious. He could just let us know.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, great. He's a huge Severance fan, so I'm sure he'll answer that swiftly.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm also curious like what you guys, you guys like? It's interesting because you're like, hey, he's Damon Lindelof, you're Adam Scott. Now you're like these two sort of very important figures in science fiction drama. What do you guys talk about when you're just hanging out?

[Adam Scott]

That's a good question. We usually talk about movies or TV shows.

[Ben Stiller]

I had an idea though. Maybe.

[Adam Scott]

What's that?

[Ben Stiller]

Power washing.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, shit.

[Ben Stiller]

Does he have a power washer that down?

[Adam Scott]

If he doesn't, I'm going To get him one. I'm going to get you one too.

[Ben Stiller]

I feel like you two guys. I could picture you two guys power washing and just like kind of like brainstorming, spitballing ideas for shows.

[Adam Scott]

I would love to power wash something with Damon. It'd be so fun.

[Ben Stiller]

I'd watch that.

[Adam Scott]

If you power wash something with Damon, though, there's a huge cliffhanger at the end of it.

[Ben Stiller]

Right?

[Adam Scott]

Okay, enough about power washing, if that's even possible. Let's go listen to my conversation with Dan Erickson and Damon Lindelof. Okay. I'm just thrilled to be here with two guys that I'm lucky enough to call friends. Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson. Damon Lindelof, of course, the co creator of Lost, the creator of Watchmen, many other incredible shows. Dan Erickson, our big brain. I can't believe I'm here sitting between these two guys. The clash of the titans. Except they're not going to clash because they're also friends. Dan and Daemon. Welcome to the show.

[Damon Lindelof]

Lovely to be here.

[Dan Erickson]

I want to be the Kraken and you can be Perseus.

[Damon Lindelof]

Okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Dan Erickson]

It's a momentous week, isn't it? Isn't it, gentlemen?

[Adam Scott]

It certainly is.

[Dan Erickson]

Since you're not going to toot your own horns, I do feel like this is probably the first time that you've gathered for podcasting since the record breaking Emmy nominations. I mean, record breaking for us.

[Damon Lindelof]

For us.

[Dan Erickson]

No, no. But it was. It was a very high number.

[Damon Lindelof]

We joined the 27 Club.

[Dan Erickson]

Right.

[Adam Scott]

Somebody told me, Dan, that you started getting 27 dresses memes.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, I actually. I had like three different friends who sent me some variation of the joke, like, hey, you're now the Katherine Heigl of the Emmys.

[Dan Erickson]

Wow.

[Damon Lindelof]

The best one actually photoshopped my face onto the poster. Onto her on the poster.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, I want a copy of that.

[Dan Erickson]

Do you think you could bring Katherine Heigl to the Emmys just platonically?

[Damon Lindelof]

If she's listening, she should know that she's invited.

[Adam Scott]

Guys, this is crazy. I wasn't planning on it happening this early in the show.

[Damon Lindelof]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

But. Ladies and gentlemen, Katherine Heigl.

[Damon Lindelof]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Scott]

Katherine. Come on. And she has her 27 dresses with her.

[Damon Lindelof]

She brought them all in on a rack.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dan Erickson]

You have laryngitis.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, she can't talk.

[Damon Lindelof]

She can't talk. But her prop work, that is really nice.

[Adam Scott]

She'll be sitting here for the entire episode.

[Dan Erickson]

Congratulations, though, guys.

[Damon Lindelof]

Thank you.

[Dan Erickson]

Look thank you. Awards are so stupid. They really are. But they're also the most important thing that ever happened in our business. And I'm rooting for you, Emmy Knight. And I'm so glad that you're in the drama category because I'll be honest with you, a lot of comedic talk on this podcast when Ben is around. Is this, by the way, is this the first time he hasn't been here? Should I feel special?

[Adam Scott]

And you know what? It's because I'm here, because Ben isn't here. We can do whatever we want. We can get super serious. So I just want to start by saying, Damon, you know, we've been friends for a long time, but even before we became good friends, we had worked together. Do you wanna talk about what we work together on?

[Dan Erickson]

I would love to.

[Adam Scott]

Great.

[Dan Erickson]

I'm so glad you brought this up.

[Adam Scott]

Great.

[Dan Erickson]

So, you know, I'm sure people ask you this all the time, Dan, how did you break through? Like, how did you get your foot in the door? What was your first gig? So to make a very, very long story short and get to the atom of it all, which is, you know what he's, that's why he's making that response, pointing at himself and making that keep it rolling gesture is I graduated from NYU Film school and my attitude was that I would give myself five years to be paid to write something. That was my goal. So I looked at LA as kind of like a grad school. So I sent an email to all of my friends and said, I know there are these entry level positions, perhaps a writer's PA or writer's assistant. If you know of any of these jobs, please let me know. And my friend Julie Pleck had. Julie's terrific, amazing, and a showrunner unto herself. Vampire Diaries amongst many others. And she was kind of running Kevin Williamson's production company at the time. He had had phenomenal success with Dawson's Creek.

[Adam Scott]

He.

[Dan Erickson]

He was directing and had created this other show for ABC called Wasteland. And the idea was, what if we did Friends? But it wasn't funny. That was literally. That was the elevator pit.

[Adam Scott]

So true.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, it was a one hour drama about very attractive 20 somethings. The idea being that post college you're in a wasteland as you're trying to figure out what life is. And I was a writer's assistant on that show. And it was just as all first seasons go, even the successful, the massively successful shows, it's just chaos. And writers were leaving and new showrunners were coming in and somehow I wrote on spec, an episode of the show as sort of a sample, and I handed it to the youngest, the baby writers on the show, and they called Kevin and they were like, I think our writer's assistant can write. And then Kevin came over to my desk and he said, do you have an agent? And I said, I do not. And he said, you need to get one. And then I was a writer, and I was in the Writer's Guild and everything else. And the very first episode of Wasteland that I wrote, I think was the ninth episode. I co wrote it with a woman named Pam Parker. And a young Adam Scott was the love interest. His character's name was Coffee Boy.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Philip the Coffee Boy.

[Dan Erickson]

I don't even think you were Philip yet. You were just Sasha's love interest.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. Sasha Alexander.

[Dan Erickson]

Sasha Alexander. And she called you Coffee Boy. And so, yeah, you were in my first produced writing credit.

[Adam Scott]

I don't think I remember.

[Dan Erickson]

Guest star.

[Adam Scott]

I don't remember that part of it.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. We didn't meet. I don't think. I mean, I was very.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I mean, maybe you were on set or something. I don't remember either. This was 1999, correct?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I'm no mathematician, but I think that's at least 20 years ago or so. Okay. Over 20.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

It's one less than the number of Emmy nominations that severance.

[Adam Scott]

There you go.

[Dan Erickson]

Just got. Is what I know. I've been told to work that in as many times as possible.

[Adam Scott]

I want to keep talking about Wasteland. It's okay if we fill the hour with Wasteland, right?

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah. It should be all Coffee Boy talk.

[Adam Scott]

I did. I did a bunch of episodes of that.

[Dan Erickson]

You were so good that you recurred. And here's what's hilarious.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

I don't think any of them aired because the show. The show aired two episodes and was canceled.

[Adam Scott]

Canceled.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

But then we kept making episodes.

[Dan Erickson]

Sure.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Erickson]

And then they all aired, and I'm told it was very successful in Brazil.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Dan Erickson]

I'm not making that up.

[Adam Scott]

Which is what we were aiming for.

[Dan Erickson]

Have you been to Brazil?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, and I'm huge down there. Because of Philip the Coffee Boy.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, correct. We went to Brazil together. And you were mobbed at the airport several times.

[Adam Scott]

Coffee Boy.

[Damon Lindelof]

Coffee Boy.

[Dan Erickson]

They were speaking. Saying it in English.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, in English with an American accent.

[Dan Erickson]

Amazing.

[Damon Lindelof]

I think that for a show that is about sort of the emptiness, the wasteland of post college life, to not air. It is actually a great creative choice.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Damon Lindelof]

That's really avant garde and beautiful and.

[Adam Scott]

Very meta, which is what Kevin Williamson was going for.

[Dan Erickson]

Sure.

[Adam Scott]

So knowing you guys as well as I do, we all work in tv obviously, but we're all fans of TV kind of first and foremost. As far as being a fan goes. What does that mean to you and what kind of fan would you say you are?

[Damon Lindelof]

Well, it's gonna sound sad and, or facetious, but to me, I'm somebody for whom, like, fandom can often sort of take the place of friendship. At times in my life where I'm like, maybe I'm not living in my normal place or maybe I am, but for whatever reason, I'm just sort of in a lonely patch. Yeah, for me, the shows that I've really loved, like, there is absolutely a sense of like returning to your friends, returning home. You put it on and your body kind of relaxes a little bit in the way that it does when you're spending time with family or people that you care about. So, you know, I think that, that for me, as I got into creating stuff, it was so important to me. I think some people find it cheesy to say, oh, you have to love the characters, you know, you have to care about them. But I'm like, that's the point. That's why I got into this, is because, like, on certain nights when I'm feeling like it's just me in this big old lonely universe, you know, I'm sitting down and I'm watching the Office, or I'm watching Lost, or I'm watching something with people that I have built a relationship with, at least, you know, albeit one sided and parasocial. And yeah, I don't know that that's the most healthy thing. But for me, that's a lot of the pleasure and the joy of being a fan of film and tv.

[Adam Scott]

I feel exactly the same way. And I do get that same kind of serotonin rush if I put on the West Wing or Lost or Sex and the City or one of these shows where I just love the characters so much that I feel like I know them like they're friends of mine. How about you, Damon?

[Dan Erickson]

Well, Adam, I'm just. I'm just a fan of cinema, you know.

[Adam Scott]

Here we go.

[Dan Erickson]

All right, settle in, Dan. Here's what I'll say is I think that Dan's probably a little bit younger than I. You are a contemporary of mine, although you look considerably younger than I am.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you.

[Dan Erickson]

But there's like a whole generation of storytellers that self identify as Gen X. And we essentially were not raised by parents. We were raised by movies and television shows. That isn't to say that we were, like, neglected, but I think that the idea of parenting as kind of like a gerund or a verb, like, didn't really conventionally exist. They were just kind of coming around on, like, Dr. Spock saying, like, maybe we shouldn't beat these things, but, like, we should probably provide food for them and occasionally, like, attend a back to the school night. But it's like we were kind of on our own. And so. And particularly in this age where the VCR was just invented. And then also, I think most of us, as a result of the lack of parenting, our parents then got divorced. And so all of these movies, like E.T. and, you know, Back to the Future, is kind of like an outlier where it's like, oh, they're together. They're on the verge of divorce, by the way. And she obviously wants to have sex with her son, which is just not. It doesn't bode well, you know, but it felt like all those movies that we were watching, you know, when I saw Stranger Things, for example, I was like, this is what it was. And so my affection as Dan was talking about the characters is it was one way, right? But I did have that, like, unhealthy feeling of, like, I know these people. And the thing about this medium that is that people watch on devices, some of which may be called televisions. There's an intimacy to it because of the scale. It's in your living room, it's in your house, and the people's heads are the size of your heads. It's different than movies where you're sitting with a bunch of other people. It's like church or temple. There's a reverence to it, and they're projected at the scale of God. And so I did feel this intimate connection to that stuff. And then my dad was a huge comic book sci fi guy and dragged me to actual comic book conventions that were about standing on a long line and getting something signed by a comic book writer or comic book artist or Ursula Le Guin. You know, like, I grew up inside that culture, and now, like, I was really touched listening to this podcast. I think it was Conan who was talking about the blender and the whole idea of, like, you're throwing all these things in your blenders, and his is, like, Warner Brothers cartoon, like, Tex Avery cartoons and like, Johnny Carson and Dave. But Johnny was inspired by Jack Benny. So Jack Benny is in Conan's Blender, too. And the metaphor that I've always used, which I'm now gonna ditch, is like, we're more DJs than musicians in terms of. We're remixing, we've got all these amazing albums that we love, but we're kind of like finding different ways in and out of them and maybe creating something that feels original. But we're openly acknowledging that this is kind of a bit beyond homage, you know, where I'm just like. I can just say, if Twin Peaks didn't air, I'm not sitting here talking to you guys right now. It's just like.

[Damon Lindelof]

Because the ingredients wouldn't be there because.

[Dan Erickson]

It'S not even like. It not only informed my own art, but it so inspired me. It so made me want to do this, you know? And you have to say, like, these are the things that made me want to do this. And that's what true fandom is.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. It's interesting because speaking of things that you're a fan of, that goes into the blender. I know during season one, Dan, you and I would talk about Lost and talk about how much we love Lost. And I remember I was doing a rewatch of it while we were shooting Season one.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, I remember you telling me.

[Adam Scott]

I just wanted to ask you, Dan, you know, you're a bit younger than Damon and I, and so when Lost. So they tell me, when Lost was on tv, you must have been, I don't know, in high school or.

[Damon Lindelof]

I was just out of college, actually.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, you were just.

[Damon Lindelof]

When I first. Yeah, I look a lot younger and handsomer than I am.

[Dan Erickson]

But he did graduate college at 12. Like that kid in Revenge of the Nerds.

[Adam Scott]

That's the thing. This whole time, I thought you were 15 years old. That was crazy.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, I saw it, actually. It's funny. We were. I had graduated college and me and three other guys were driving down to LA to find a place. We ended up finding a two bedroom apartment in Studio City where the four of us lived. Two guys to a room. And my friend Nathan had his laptop and had a bunch of, like, DVDs, which was an early form of. You could show media on, like a little disc.

[Adam Scott]

A silver disc.

[Damon Lindelof]

A silver disc on one side. The other side said Lost. But it was like we were driving down in this big van from Bellingham, Washington to LA, and he showed me, like the first 10 episodes in the car. And then, you know, we immediately just. I was hooked. And the whole time that we lived together, we would go to the blockbuster, which was there in Studio City, and we would rent one, and then we would finish that one, and we would go back. And so it was, you know, what the kids now call binging. But, you know, we had to go and walk across the street to do it.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, you had to get some exercise in. In between DVDs. So what was it about the show that hooked you in? How did it kind of spark your imagination?

[Damon Lindelof]

I mean, there just really hadn't. I think it's fair to say there had not been anything quite like that in terms of how propulsive it was and how. Just every. Every episode, you felt like you were getting more and more addicted and you were digging further down and finding new treasures. But it really was. At the end of the day, you know, it was that I loved the characters. I loved Hurley, and I loved Charlie, and I wanted them to be okay, and I wanted to see that they were gonna be okay. You know, I wanted Claire to have her baby and be healthy and everything. And I think to this day, like, my favorite moment from Lost is just that very simple moment, or one of my favorites, I'll have to say, is that moment where Hurley gives Ben Linus the. I think it's the candy bar, and it's just. There's no dialogue. He just hands in the candy bar, and Ben sort of stares at him and then takes it. And it's just this sweet little kind gesture where you wouldn't have expected to find one. And those were the moments that I think, even more than the mystery, kept me coming back.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. You know what I keep going back to when I think about Lost is, I believe it's in the first episode when Locke looks at Walt.

[Damon Lindelof]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. With the orange peel in his mouth.

[Damon Lindelof]

And he smiles.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah. It's in the pilot.

[Adam Scott]

That is just a wild moment.

[Dan Erickson]

That was a JJ idea.

[Damon Lindelof]

I would have followed Locke anywhere after that moment. Honestly, it was amazing.

[Dan Erickson]

Terry o' Quinn daemon.

[Adam Scott]

We've been getting a lot of hotline questions coming in. A lot of people kind of really talking about severance and Lost and the similarities between them, and a lot about how the fans like to come up with theories to these mysteries. So do you guys want to hear one of these questions that concerns both the shows?

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, boy. Is it a crossover pitch? Are they happening? Because I know that there was some grumpiness, I think, on Mike Schur's part, about crossover episodes, and then you and Ben somehow converging, and now he's. And he was.

[Adam Scott]

Then he was all, he wants to.

[Dan Erickson]

Do a Love Boat or Something. Yeah, exactly. Lay it on me.

[Adam Scott]

Let's find out. Katherine, would you like to hear the haunt line? Oh, yep. She would love to.

[Damon Lindelof]

That's a big nod.

[Dan Erickson]

Wow.

[Adam Scott]

Cool. I didn't know. Are you a fan of both the shows? Lost and this bit is never gonna stop because it's invisible.

[Damon Lindelof]

Katherine Heigl is my favorite bit.

[Dan Erickson]

Hey, Ben.

[Adam Scott]

Hey, Adam. My name's Johnny.

[Dan Erickson]

I'm from Ohio, and huge fan of the show.

[Adam Scott]

As I've been watching, I've been really.

[Dan Erickson]

Just enjoying some of the similarities and possibly even inspiration between Severance and Lost. And one of the things that I noticed while watching Lost is just managing.

[Damon Lindelof]

All of the questions and mysteries that.

[Dan Erickson]

Would come up in the show.

[Adam Scott]

So could you guys speak to a.

[Damon Lindelof]

Little bit about how you're managing the.

[Ben Stiller]

Balance of creating the mystery of the.

[Dan Erickson]

Show and what's going on without overloading.

[Damon Lindelof]

Us with questions, without answers? Thanks so much, guys.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

Ohio.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Damon Lindelof]

Well. Well, yeah. I'm curious to hear how Severance inspired Lost.

[Dan Erickson]

Yes.

[Damon Lindelof]

But before we get into that, I mean, I do think that there was something on Lost where it's like you could solve a sort of a smaller mystery and get that hit of dopamine, but find that it was part of a greater tapestry. And I think, you know, one thing that I. That I said going into season two was I would like to get Gemma out, or at least out of where she is right now, and I would like to know what the numbers are, because those were both these big questions, and I want those answers to lead to bigger, equally, or even more interesting questions. Yeah, I do think that if. If we still had truly no idea what the numbers are right now, we would maybe be starting to lose people a little bit more than we have. It's that nesting doll thing of trying to sort of start on the inside and make your way out.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I remember that being a thing that you and Ben both felt we really needed to address in the season was answer what the numbers are.

[Dan Erickson]

We had some experience with numbers on Lost as well, but your numbers are bad.

[Damon Lindelof]

Our numbers are good.

[Dan Erickson]

Your numbers are good. But I do think, like, the overlap in the Venn diagram, and I think I'm going to attribute this to something that I think Cuaron said when he was talking about Children of Men. Again, I don't know if I mentioned earlier, but I'm kind of into cinema, but it was sort of like the idea of a MacGuffin being a what is never going to be as emotionally uplifting as the MacGuffin being a who? And so the idea of, like, the numbers in Lost started out as something that Hurley played in the lottery, and then it. And created horrific luck, but it was also something that Rousseau was repeating in a message. And then they were written on the hatch, and they just kind of kept cropping up there. And it was like, the answer always had to be like, but what do the numbers mean? Is like Dreyfus asking, what does this mean? And it means that aliens are coming, and they're going to be returning some pilots that they stole or borrowed, and then they're going to take some more people. But that's not what he means by, what does it mean? And I think that the beauty, what we were trying to achieve on Lost, and it's something that I certainly chased in my subsequent shows, but I feel like Severance has, in its first line of dialogue in the pilot is some deeper sense of meaning. I think that this kind of idea of identity and what its relationship is to memory, and it's those kind of, like, deeper philosophical questions that if Cold harbor is related to that central idea of who am I? You know, like, am I The sum total of the experiences that I had, this kind of total recall construct of like, wow, I've been rooting for Arnold for this entire movie, but now here's this videotape of him talking to himself. That's what I really thought of when I saw Helena for the first time was like, wow, like, am I still rooting for her?

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Dan Erickson]

And the whole any outy concept. You've gotten me to treat Mark as two different people when he's one person. That's what the show's about. And so as long as the mysteries are centering around that fundamental idea, you're much more playing with, what does it mean on an existential level? What does it mean to be alive versus I'm opening up the mystery box and a dove flies out? It's just like, those things. It's not to say they don't matter. The mythology does matter. And when Carlton and I were messaging around Lost, and we were like, people are all wrapped up in the mythology. All that matters to us is the characters, what we should have said. And what I reflect upon is it's the marriage between the characters and the mystery that makes the show work. Like, if I don't feel something when you tell me what Cold harbor is, you know, it can't just be revelation. It just can't be like a whodunit. Yeah, it really. It really has to. It has to connect back to the central idea of the show.

[Adam Scott]

Okay, it's time for a quick break. We've got more from my conversation with Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson right after this. This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. So employees on the separate floor of Lumen Industry know their work is mysterious and important. The farmer's dog, on the other hand, isn't mysterious at all. Which is good, because what you feed your dog shouldn't be a mystery. The Farmer's dog makes 100% mysterious free fresh food for dogs and they always use real meat, real vegetables, which are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients and avoid the risks that come from ultra processing. Their recipes are developed by their team of board certified vet nutritionists so they can ensure that your dog's food is always complete and balanced. The Farmer's dog food is made to human grade safety standards, which are the same safety standards as the food that you and I eat. Because as far as as I know, if you're listening and understanding this podcast, chances are you're a human being. The Farmer's dog also portions the food to your dog's unique needs, making it easy to keep them at a healthy weight. So go try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at the farmersdog.com severance. Plus you get free shipping right to your door. Remember, you can't get it at stores, you can't get it at Lumen. You can only get it@the farmersdog.com severance. This offer is for new customers only. Hey there cats and kittens.

[Damon Lindelof]

It's Brian from the commercial break, the mediocre comedy podcast where my best friend Chrissy and I attempt to make sense of the world. We talk about the absurd, the ridiculous, and the stuff no one asked for, like Internet weirdos, pickup artists, and why everyone is obsessed with crystals and colonics. It's all got to stop.

[Adam Scott]

The show is free, it's frequent, and.

[Damon Lindelof]

It'S probably not for everyone. You can go to tcbpodcast.com, [e-mail] thecommercialbreak or check out the show wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll see you on the next commercial break.

[Dan Erickson]

And best to you.

[Ben Stiller]

At Lumen Industries, collaboration is limited, information is siloed, workflows are mysterious, and departments rarely interact. The Macrodata refinement team, like many others, operates in isolation, tracking cryptic information without clear context. Now imagine what would happen if they introduced a new tool like notion. Notion brings structure to the chaos without the need for white walls that go on forever or severed minds. With shared workspaces, customizable databases, and AI assisted search teams like Marks could track their quota, progress, manage project documentation, and even gain insight into elusive the work of other departments all in one organized platform. Need to organize data into tables, boards, or timelines. Easy coordinate across departments without unauthorized hallway wandering. Completely possible in a world where memory ends at the elevator. Notion helps keep everything connected, connecting what's been severed. Explore [e-mail] Severance.

[Adam Scott]

Damon, for whatever reason, you know, Lost and Severance are both shows that people refer to as mystery box shows. And I just have a general question. Does that phrase mystery box show, does that come from JJ's reference? He had a story about a box that he grew up with and never opened.

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, he gave a TED Talk. And it's like, it's a box with literally a question mark on it. And it's a great TED Talk. And I think, like, you know, it's one of those things that. That seemed, like, wonderful at the time. And then it became like a very harsh criticism. And I was curious about whether or not you guys are experiencing this, because, like, as soon as the pilot aired, you know, people were like, what's the noise in the woods? And it was like, oh, God, if you're interested in that, wait till you meet Rousseau. You know, like. And there it was, just mystery upon mystery upon mystery until we basically got to the season one finale. They find the hatch, which JJ had pitched in the very first meeting that we ever had. They should find this thing in the ground, and they should spend the entire season trying to get it open. And I was like, they're not finding it until we know what's in there. And so the writers immediately started. We understood that that was catnip, but that is a literal mystery box. And so there was a whole summer between the finale, which aired in the middle of May, and the premiere, which aired in early September, where the culture and anyone that knew that I had any affiliation with the show was just like, just tell me. Just tell me what's in that fucking hatch. But on the heels of that, they go, don't tell me, but I need to know that you know everything. I need to know that there's, like, a detailed plan and you're not pulling this out of your ass. And the punchline of JJ's mystery box Ted Talk is the power of ambiguity. Right, Right. You're like, he's gonna open it up here at the end of the TED Talk. Spoiler alert. He doesn't. Because the whole idea is, like, your imagination, or at least the anticipation of what's inside the box is so much greater. And it's like, I will say that there's a part of me that loves, you know, ambiguity and also gets infuriated by not knowing the answer or, like, having to argue it out, but I like Michael Hannukam movies, and it's sort of like, you know, he made cachet in a certain way, and you can debate whether or not you get the answer in the end credits or not, but it's just not. It's not in black and white. And that's, like. That's so cool to me. But. But I do think that this sort of idea of, are you stringing us along? When are we going to get the answers that are satisfying to us? I feel like on the periphery of severance fandom. And I try not to abuse my friendship with you. Adam and I. I had dinner with Ben and kind of, like, met him for the first time before maybe the week before the finale aired. I think he was, like, coming out just for that, but I hadn't seen Cold harbor yet, and he was just in the space of, like, I think it's great, but, like, how's it gonna play? Are they gonna feel fed? You know, and the insatiability of it all? And again, you guys are. You've made 20 episodes as of right now, so we made 25, the first season of Lost.

[Adam Scott]

So can you imagine, Dan? Can you imagine?

[Dan Erickson]

And we did that. No, we did that between I met JJ the last week of January, and the finale aired of season one, episode 25, hour 25, aired the following May. So 15 months, 25 episodes from hey, how are you? And that was the. That was the speed. And so when people would say to me, have you got it all worked out right? I was like, you know, every Monday we come in, there's a blank board, and then. And then the following Tuesday, it's completely filled while we're editing. You know, it was like there was no time. The first time that we got to work on our mythology was between seasons one and seasons two. We had. I got married, so we had nine days off before we went back to work on season two.

[Adam Scott]

Good Lord.

[Dan Erickson]

So how's it going for you guys?

[Adam Scott]

Well, that's the thing is the definition of a mystery box show, if we're gonna take it from J.J. abrams, TED Talk, is that the box never opens. And that's why it's special, is because of that Ambiguity. But inherent in a mystery box show and the audience's enjoyment of, according to the audience and according to people who like to write about television, is that not only do you know what's in the box, but at some point we get to find out what is in the box. That's at least from what I've gathered. That seems to be the overriding concern of a lot of viewers of the show. So is that how you take it as well? Is that how you define what a quote unquote, mystery box show, Dan?

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, and of course, it's never with a character. There's always what they want and there's what they need. For me, as a fan, I feel the same for myself, where I'm like, there's the thing that I want that is gonna keep me watching this show. But at the end of the day, by the time I'm done watching the show, the question is, did I get what I need? Which is often not the same thing as what I thought I wanted.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Damon Lindelof]

And that's not to dismiss people's very justifiable desire to get these answers or their faith in us that we have thought it through enough that they're in a world that makes sense and has an internal logic. But I think there's so much power in just. Just having that central question. For me, it's, you know, watching Lost, it was that moment where Charlie goes, you know, guys, where are we? Yeah, and he's better at doing his voice than I am, but I think.

[Adam Scott]

You gave him a run for his money.

[Damon Lindelof]

I think his impression of himself is spot on, personally strong. But, you know, for us, there's. Guys, what is it we actually do here, which is your line, and you need something like that to sustain that, to keep you clawing your way out. You know, to me, it's. I think of severance. Like, we're starting in this small box in the center, and we're going to claw our way out. And there's a slightly bigger box outside, right? You know, it's a Russian nesting box situation. And the question is, what's going to keep you? What's going to keep you clawing your way out? And once you get out and you look back and you see what you were inside of this whole time, is it going to be satisfying or are you going to look at it and go, oh, that was it.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Damon Lindelof]

You know, and it's hard. And I don't know yet if I am good at that, at successfully landing that plane, but I Guess we'll find out.

[Adam Scott]

I think you are. I mean, the thing that I often find is when people come up, particularly between seasons or after a finale, saying, just tell. Tell me what this is, or tell me what that is, they don't actually want to know any of it. What they want is to have that feeling of wanting to know. That's the key to the whole thing. It's not. They don't actually want me to answer that question. If I did, it would be a huge bummer. So it's that middle ground. That's where the fun is.

[Dan Erickson]

I do wanna just say, circling back to something that Dan said earlier when he was talking about fandom, like, the most valuable lesson that I think that I've learned over the years, at least in terms of my own storytelling, is something that you've already kind of seized on, or at the very least, it appears that severance has figured out, which is that if the characters don't care about that mystery, solving that mystery, then it doesn't really matter. Like, that is to say, it may matter to a certain subset of the audience. And I was listening to the pod a couple weeks ago, and you and Ben were talking to one of those incredible podcasters who just goes, like, really deep.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man.

[Dan Erickson]

And he was. He was the Alan Stare. I gotta listen to his pod. But he was talking about how the chips work. And I was like, holy shit. I've never even thought about this. I've never even thought, yes, as he was going down, like, well, Ms. Casey, she could have multiple hard drives and blah, you know? And I was just like, okay, that now he's really interested in that. But unless there's a character on the show who needs to know how the chips work, because most of the characters on the show, they're interested in, you know, affairs of the heart or they've all voluntarily severed. So the last thing they want to know is the answers to these mysteries. The inherent mystery of the show is kind of, like, built into it. And one of the biggest and most deserved criticisms that we got on Lost is why aren't the characters trying to solve the same mysteries we, the audience, are? You know, and was like, well, Locke was really fixated on opening up the hatch, but he felt like the island was communicating to him in some way because it had healed him. But everybody else was kind of, like, pretty nonchalant about opening up the hatch. And so there was almost like a level of amnesia that had to, like, float in over the characters. What we called the Tom and Jerry effect. Which is like Tom would literally get the shit kicked out of him violently by trying to kill Jerry. And then it just dissolves. And then it's the next morning and they're both back to normal. And you think that at least Tom would say, I have a sense memory that this is going to Wile E. Coyote thing, but he's gonna just keep doing what he's doing. And I think that that is actually built into the premise of self inflicted amnesia. That is to say, like, if they wanted to solve these mysteries, they wouldn't be severed right.

[Adam Scott]

Going off what you're saying. I think that's something that I've really loved about Dan's writing from day one, which was, you know, there's this rule that I've mentioned on the show many times, which is Mike Schur's rule for television, which is you should be able to take the character names off of the page of any page of a good TV show and know exactly whose line applies to which character.

[Damon Lindelof]

Right?

[Dan Erickson]

Yeah, I've never heard that.

[Adam Scott]

And I feel like from day one, not just that, but just looking at a photo of the MDR workers of Britt, Me, Zach and John, it's like, oh, I know who these people are. So the characters from day one have been integral to the mystery and integral to the audience's interest in the mystery and Lost also. You just love these people and you don't want a hair on their head to be harmed.

[Dan Erickson]

There is no more compelling mystery on the show than why did these people choose to do this to themselves? And we get that for Mark from the jump, you know, like. And then of course, it gets undone to some degree when we learn that Gemma is still alive. But like the exhilaration of that little child running into the closet and throwing his arms around Zach's neck and he's just like, what the. And you just are like, this guy's a dad. You know, and like that to me. And this is not to take anything away from whatever the cures have been up to for centuries. But like, that was more satisfying than any kind of mythology answer, which, you know, I mean, you're going to have to give. But the mythology has to be in service of the characters journeys. And so the idea of like, you know, now that Irving is out, the idea that he was compiling lists and information about Lumen, that's all really interesting to me. But I was much more interested in is he gonna find Bert, you know, what's gonna happen there? And so that idea again, sort of of like, who Are these people, why did they do this to themselves? What are they trying to heal? What are they trying to forget? Because this is, it's quite a radical procedure. And I think that the show is basically saying it's a bad idea. You know, like, all great sci fi is like, hey, there's world hunger. We should make giant tomatoes. And then you get fucking giant ants. And it's like, there's great intention. You know, it's a temporary salve. But I would be very surprised if we get to the end of the journey and the show is saying, like, everybody on the planet should get severed. I mean, look how well these people are doing. Yeah. You know, I don't think anyone's doing particularly well.

[Adam Scott]

Right.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to be releasing the actual chip in tandem with the, you know, series finale. Be like this whole thing was an ad.

[Dan Erickson]

Cause we've been holding it in our hands and looking at it the entire time.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Here you go, everyone.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, but Daemon, I think you made a really fantastic point where, you know, the mystery.

[Dan Erickson]

Katherine Heigl is nodding as well.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, she agrees. She is in full agreement. But, like, where the mystery is only interesting in so much as it's important to the characters. And to me, that was why it was so important. Or I think that that's why the reveal that Ms. Kayce is Gemma landed the way that it did. Not just because it was surprising and shocking, but all of a sudden it was because suddenly this question of what do we do here? Is tied, you know, inextricably to the loss and the marriage. Because whatever it is that we're doing here, that is what caused your happy domestic life to be ripped away from you and the love of your life to be ripped away from you. And especially I think in season two, when, you know, we had the flashbacks and actually got to see in episode seven that that life that you had had, to me, even just watching that episode for the first time, I suddenly was more invested in the, in the mystery than I had been. Which speaks to, you know, the work you guys did and the work Jess did on that episode. But I, I, yeah, I, I, I think for every character there is this question of what is it that we do here? But, but the bigger question is why does that matter to me? You know, how does that affect who I am on the inside and the outside?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Daemon, do you have any questions for Mr. Erickson?

[Dan Erickson]

I do. Of course. I'm not gonna ask any mystery questions. Cause I don't want you to answer them. And we both know that you won't. I guess. I have two questions. The first is, in all honesty, do you think Ben is listening to this? Why would he? And why haven't we taken greater advantage of that? I do feel like we should embed some kind of secret passcode that we would only be without explicitly saying, did you listen to that one? Like, I'll give $1,000 to the charity of your choice if Ben listens to this. But how could we prove it? Because there's no way he will.

[Adam Scott]

How about this? How about if Ben listens to this? He would have to make it this far into the interview, and we will know he listened to it if the next time he sees any of the three of us, it has to be in person. He has to go to, shake our hand and then say, do you have the recipe for Bananas Foster?

[Dan Erickson]

Perfect.

[Damon Lindelof]

Perfect.

[Adam Scott]

Yep, perfect.

[Dan Erickson]

And I do.

[Damon Lindelof]

Although, should we pick something that isn't his catchphrase already?

[Adam Scott]

Because he says, that's a good idea. That's a good idea.

[Dan Erickson]

Right, Exactly. And my. I know that, like, the goats are. Are an example of this, right? Because I've heard you guys talk about it, but one of the things that happened on Lost was that there was something that we were kind of like, oh, this is interesting to us, and exciting, and we're talking about it, and it's in an episode, but we just had no idea that the audience was gonna lock in on it in the way that they did. And there are a number of instances, and this happened on the leftovers as well. But other than the goats, now that the message in the bottle, that is the creative process where you're just making this, and there's like 500 people who are making it, and then suddenly there's millions upon millions upon millions of people who watch it. Is there anything about season two? Because the goats were introduced to us in season one. We got a meal again. I will pitch you, Dan. I will write the Gwendoline Christie Emil spinoff where they just wander from town to town and solve people's problems.

[Damon Lindelof]

Solving mysteries.

[Dan Erickson]

It's a kung fu thing. No mysteries. Just problems.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, Personal.

[Dan Erickson]

Just everyday problems. Always with the mysteries. This fucking guy.

[Damon Lindelof]

You're right.

[Dan Erickson]

You're right. My question.

[Damon Lindelof]

Thank you for pulling me back from that.

[Dan Erickson]

My question is, in season two, was there anything that kind of like, the audience locked in on that? You were like, oh, huh, okay. Like what? Didn't see that coming?

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah, I think that. Well, it's not that I didn't see it coming. But I think Dr. Maurer in the fertility clinic.

[Adam Scott]

Ah.

[Damon Lindelof]

You just see him, like, walk by in the background. Yeah. But for a lot of people, that's become the thing.

[Adam Scott]

Huge moment.

[Dan Erickson]

Wow.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Robbie is so stupid.

[Dan Erickson]

He's amazing.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, my God. The singing voice of the Beast.

[Damon Lindelof]

Well, and the speaking voice. Isn't he.

[Dan Erickson]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Is he really? Yeah, for Beauty and the Beast. I thought he was only the singing.

[Dan Erickson]

Sometimes they break it up. Like, my buddy Brad is the singing voice of Aladdin.

[Damon Lindelof]

Oh, wow.

[Dan Erickson]

But they have someone else voicing Aladdin.

[Adam Scott]

But wait, wasn't Peabo Bryson singing some of the Beast songs?

[Dan Erickson]

Maybe.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah. I don't know where I pulled that.

[Adam Scott]

One out, by the way.

[Dan Erickson]

Let's answer this on our Beauty and the Beast pod.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

Which we're recording.

[Damon Lindelof]

We're recording right after.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Dan Erickson]

And Catherine, you can. She wants to stick around.

[Damon Lindelof]

She knows.

[Adam Scott]

Would you like to know?

[Damon Lindelof]

But she can't tell us.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, she just wrote something down. Goes, I'm a Beauty and the Beast trivia specialist.

[Damon Lindelof]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I couldn't come up with anything else.

[Dan Erickson]

And by the way, it's called be our guest.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Damon Lindelof]

That's exactly right.

[Dan Erickson]

Be star guest. Even better.

[Adam Scott]

You guys, thank you for being here. I love both of you. I love hanging out with you. I love talking about TV and movies and stuff, but I'm mostly just happy that you're my friend. Both of you guys are incredible artists, and we're just so, so thrilled to have you on the show. Or at least I am. We'll find out if Ben is.

[Damon Lindelof]

We're gonna find out. Yeah. Bananas.

[Dan Erickson]

And by the way, guys, gentlemen, and ladies and everyone listening, don't you dare say to Ben, hey, just the next time you see those guys, he's gotta listen to silence. You are now complicit in the greatest podcast surprise party that is deeply unmeaningful in most ways.

[Adam Scott]

And no one can send it to him on social media, like, hey, this is what's going on.

[Dan Erickson]

This is a thing. No, he has to organically decide to listen to a podcast on which he does not appear.

[Adam Scott]

All right, it was great having you guys on. Thank you.

[Dan Erickson]

Pleasure.

[Damon Lindelof]

Thanks, Adam.

[Adam Scott]

That was my conversation with Damon Lindelof and Dan Erickson. We're going to take a quick break, and then I'll be right back with Ben to answer some of your hotline questions. Are you planning your next trip? Pack the ultimate traveling companion, a travel insurance plan from TravelGuard. From lost luggage to unexpected detours, TravelGuard has your back 24. 7 support means you're not on your own for those unexpected travel disruptions. Head over to travelguard.com customize your plan and hit the road with more confidence. Travel Safe Travel Smart TravelGuard this is.

[Damon Lindelof]

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[Adam Scott]

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[Dan Erickson]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds.

[Adam Scott]

Here from Mint Mobile.

[Dan Erickson]

Now I was looking for fun ways.

[Damon Lindelof]

To tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal.

[Ben Stiller]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Adam Scott]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent.

[Ben Stiller]

To $15 per month required new customer.

[Adam Scott]

Offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's.

[Ben Stiller]

Busy taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com.

[Adam Scott]

All right, shall we get into some some hotline questions?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

[Adam Scott]

Hi guys. My name is Amanda. Huge fan of the show and this podcast. So my question is about Mark's fish. Who is taking care of these fish.

[Dan Erickson]

As he's going on his little reintegration missions at the end of the season? And also, what are their names?

[Adam Scott]

I love Mark's fish. Thanks so much. Thanks Amanda. They do have names, don't they?

[Ben Stiller]

Do they? Did we give them names?

[Adam Scott]

I thought someone named them really?

[Ben Stiller]

Maybe somebody on set named them, I think. Yeah, I didn't. I never. I mean, I don't know if it's the same fish actors that we've had in every episode, though. One's blue and one's red.

[Adam Scott]

Fish actors.

[Ben Stiller]

But I remember when we were making the choice to put the fish tank there as we were setting it, I remember thinking to myself, this is a big decision because this fish tank and these fish are going to be here for, like, if the show goes a number of seasons.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You know, and the fish have. I think we've gotten a lot of mileage out of the fish, you know, in terms of what we're paying them. Because they're really cheap.

[Adam Scott]

They're cheap, but whenever we use them, there is a person on set who's looking out for the fish.

[Ben Stiller]

Right.

[Adam Scott]

I remember we had to get some close ups of the fish or you had to get some close ups of the fish. Of the fish. So the camera was right up there against the fish tank. And, you know, you needed the fish to swim into frame right now and then. And it was getting tough to coax them. But we couldn't tap on the glass.

[Ben Stiller]

No, no. Yeah, you can't tap on the glass.

[Adam Scott]

No. You couldn't put like anything in the water to try and get them to swim in a direct. We just had to wait right there.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. You have to respect the fishes. You know, I mean, the great thing about fishes, you can negotiate a deal with them and tell them, oh, you know what, you want like a bump. You want like a, you know, like 50% pay bump and you agree to it. And then 30 seconds later they forgot.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ben Stiller]

They forgot. They even asked.

[Adam Scott]

You don't have to pay them anything.

[Ben Stiller]

Exactly.

[Adam Scott]

We did pay them because we're. We're not assholes. Right. You know, Paid them.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And by the way, at one point there was a move to turn them into CG fish. And I was like, no, we're saving those fish. Actors are going to get the work.

[Adam Scott]

You know, save their jobs. Was there really a discussion about CG fish?

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, there have been discussions. Look, we don't use CG animals or a lot of CG on the show unless it's like kind of like hopefully something you're not noticing. And I feel like animals have not been perfected yet. And so those are real fish. And then the reality is somebody from the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals has to come and be on the set and you have to have the fish wrangler and so it's like, you know. Yeah, there's like a whole entourage. Yeah. But I love the fish, and I love kind of what everything that they represent and visually how they feel in the apartment. And I'm glad we made the choice to. To go with the fish.

[Adam Scott]

Me too. It is weird now that in movies, even if there's a dog or a cat, oftentimes it's completely cg.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I still feel like I can tell every time.

[Adam Scott]

Me too. Me too.

[Ben Stiller]

Has there ever been a CG animal that you haven't been able to tell it's not a CG animal?

[Adam Scott]

Well, I wouldn't know, would I? Because it would have convinced me so much, so hard. I know. I feel like it's always quite noticeable.

[Ben Stiller]

Like, this makes me think of the. The dead seal seal. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, me too. I just thought of that.

[Ben Stiller]

Do you know a weird thing was when the dead seal in episode 204 was also, I think, was sculpted by Pankow, who does all of our. He did an amazing job with that to get that decaying seal. And then when we got to Newfoundland to shoot episode 208, there was a real dead seal on the beach when we got there.

[Adam Scott]

Whoa.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, that's it.

[Adam Scott]

Did you take pictures?

[Ben Stiller]

I did.

[Adam Scott]

Did you get a selfie with it?

[Ben Stiller]

No, I'm not. That would be. That wouldn't have been good to do. Not respectful seal.

[Adam Scott]

The one that that Pankow created was really disturbing because it was in the midst of decomposition. It was disgusting. It looked like it smelled horrible.

[Ben Stiller]

It looked like that and didn't smell at all because it was like.

[Adam Scott]

No, it smelled actually delicious.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay, next one. Next question.

[Adam Scott]

Hey, Ben. Hi, Adam. My name is Saab, calling from France.

[Dan Erickson]

I've been a huge fan of the show since the beginning and would like to thank all of the team for the amazing show.

[Adam Scott]

I'm also a photographer and love all the behind the scenes.

[Dan Erickson]

You share Ben on Twitter. Is there any chance for you to.

[Adam Scott]

Release a photo book someday?

[Dan Erickson]

Can't wait for the next season. Greetings from France. Bye.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, thank you.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, Bendo book.

[Ben Stiller]

I think that's Bendo book. Yeah, I'd like to do that. I'm glad we have all those pictures. And it's really fun now to interact with people online who are, you know, fans of the show who really appreciate those.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, I love photos.

[Ben Stiller]

I love behind the scenes photos. Like, I was just watching some thing about jaws, 50th anniversary, watching some behind the scenes footage. I'd never seen it. Just like, it's the best. Right. When there's something that's so imprinted in your mind and then you get to see a little bit of like what the, you know, or anything like from the Shining. When you see behind the scenes footage from that.

[Adam Scott]

Totally. I still, it still blows my mind when I see a behind the scenes photo. Like you said, like I've never seen from Back to the Future.

[Ben Stiller]

Right.

[Adam Scott]

Star wars or something. It's still just crazy. I do, I love it so much. And I love seeing the ones that you put out on Instagram and stuff there.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It's fun. It's really. It was fun to start like taking them and then have you guys like make fun of it and be like, make jokes about it in a fun way because then it felt like, okay, it's okay to do this because I do feel like the best behind the scenes photos are when it's, you know, somebody who can get in there and not sort of disrupt what's going on.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And been fun.

[Adam Scott]

So.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I think it'd be great.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. Should we do one more?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Hey there, Adam and Ben. My name is Alistair. I thought I would ask what inspired the finale freeze frame shot. I loved that scene. I thought it was a great way.

[Ben Stiller]

To close off the season.

[Dan Erickson]

Thank you.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. So good.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, honestly, when Dan wrote out the draft of the script and he had that final like them running through the hallways, it just, for some reason, it was just like a thought that just like jumped in my head. I knew what we could do with the hallway lighting and I thought it could be really romantic and also really disturbing. And the idea of a freeze frame, you know, of where they're gonna go. What's the future? That just seemed like, you know, the way to go. And for me, there's definitely like, I guess just like subconscious images in my head of freeze frames from movies from when I was a kid and movies that ended on freeze frames and zoom ins to freeze frames. Invasion of the Body Snatchers, I think ends on a freeze frame on Donald Sutherland, like going right, pointing. And those images are sort of like in your head. Subconscious.

[Adam Scott]

I love the zoom in so much.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And we wanted to make sure it had that grainy feel of a 70s zoom in. And since we don't shoot the show on film, we actually had that shot, that scene filmed out onto 35 millimeter film. And then we re transferred it and zoomed in on the freeze frame of the film. Yeah. So that you get sort of the film grain feel as you go in on It. And then the song was part of it. The thing about the song at the end, I always thought we cut it together, the first cut of it. And it went on for a long time, which I really was into, because I thought, okay, this is the end of the season. And for me, it was always like, this is just sort of like we're kind of going back to the first scene and, you know, the first episode.

[Adam Scott]

I remember loving it and feeling like I needed that space to, like, absorb what just happened.

[Ben Stiller]

Right, right.

[Adam Scott]

And, you know, knowing. Because I think, you know, this is it. This is the end of the season and just kind of hanging on and seeing where the fuck are they going, and then to just have that final shot where you really get to take in where we kind of are starting to think a little bit and looking at each other. I love all the space in that.

[Ben Stiller]

And you guys. You guys really hit that too, because in the script, you know, it was like, important to really get that idea that at first you're sort of elated, and then it kind of slowly turns into like, oh, what the fuck, Right?

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And we did that. I think we did that like 10 or 11 times. We did that run down the hallway, and we were shooting it at, like 100 frames a second, so it was super slow motion. But you guys were doing it full speed.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And I knew that we would just then go back and find the right freeze frame and then the red coming in. I think also for the show kind of signified just a change of some type.

[Adam Scott]

And that's it for the episode. You know what? I can't believe it's already been five weeks.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

What do you think? Should I tell listeners the good news?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, go for it.

[Adam Scott]

Okay. We are coming back with more episodes of this podcast.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. We've really loved talking with people who have impacted us while making Severance, and there are so many more who we want to bring on the show.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And there are more people who help make Severance who we want you all to hear from.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. So we're going to take a few weeks off, but then we will be back.

[Adam Scott]

And in the meantime, keep calling the hotline and keep looking into what the heat index really is.

[Ben Stiller]

You know what it is? It's humidity times temperature, maybe. I don't actually know.

[Adam Scott]

I'm already confused.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Adam Scott]

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey Red Hour Productions. And Great Scott.

[Ben Stiller]

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts Spotify or your other podcast platform of choice. It really makes a difference.

[Adam Scott]

If you've got a question about severance, call our hotline, 212-830-3816. We just might play your voicemail and answer your question on the podcast.

[Ben Stiller]

Our executive producers are Bari Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, Naomi Scott and Leah Rhys Dennis. This show is produced by Ben Goldberg. It's mixed and mastered by Chris Basel. We have additional engineering from Javi Cruces.

[Adam Scott]

Show show clips are courtesy of fifth season music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Kate Rose, Curt Courtney and Hilary Schuff.

[Ben Stiller]

And the team at Red, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Gian Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderruten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker and Sam Lyon.

[Adam Scott]

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm Ben Stiller.

[Adam Scott]

And I'm Adam Scott.

[Ben Stiller]

Thank you for listening.