December Bonus Episode

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

December Bonus Episode (Aired December 26, 2025)

Overview

This special year-end episode offers writers an exclusive peek into the workings of a literary agency meeting—specifically, the Wendy Sherman Associates (WSA) team. Host Bianca Marais (author and literary agent) gathers a powerhouse panel: veteran founder Wendy Sherman, Vice President Charisse Fisher, west coast editor Laura Mazer, and agent Callie Dietrich. Their open conversation covers trend-spotting, author-agent-editor relationships, the evolving demands in publishing, professional predictions, and heartfelt advice for writers heading into 2026. Plus, with the signature Books with Hooks comp-title segment and a rollicking game of “Never Have I Ever,” the mood is both insightful and inviting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcome & Agency Introductions

Bianca Marais sets the stage for a unique, "fly-on-the-wall" agency meeting:

“I want all our listeners...to be able to say that you got to listen in on a literary agency's meeting.” (03:33)

• Each WSA agent introduces themselves, sharing tidbits and teasing team dynamics.

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2. Market Trends: Romantasy, Genre Diversification, and Editor Nuance

Callie Dietrich raises the Romantasy trend:

• Will it soon saturate or is there still space for growth?
• Charisse shares student excitement and loyalty for fantasy, emphasizing,

“The actual people who read it are very attached to the genre and to the whole idea of world building.” (06:12)

• Wendy Sherman: Industry professionals must predict two years ahead; trends evolve, so agents should diversify and follow their instincts.
• Laura advocates trying only “one new category at a time” for agent growth and focus. (08:35)

Wendy Sherman:

“You can't put all your stock in one thing, because then if that thing is over, you're stuck with the wrong basket.” (10:01)

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3. Agent Collaboration & Whisper Networks

• The WSA team values internal and external collaboration.
• Laura describes the wider agent/editor “whisper network”—where friendship helps match projects to editors, supplementing formal research:

“The rest of us, I think are very share and share, like with information.” (13:12)

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4. Expanding Author and Agent Roles in Marketing

Charisse Fisher details the pre-order campaign and cover reveal process:

• Authors now shoulder more responsibility for marketing and visibility, with agents frequently coaching them on strategy, self-presentation, and more:

“There’s so many more expectations on our authors in terms of marketing than…before.” (15:51)

• Agents are now also ‘set designers’ and coaches, adapting to the changing landscape.

Wendy Sherman:

“It’s where we get to be all things to all people. The authors have to do the same. And I think, frankly, the editors have to do the same thing.” (16:35)

Laura Mazer on support:

“If we don't have visibility for the book, people can't buy it…It used to be that publishers...could get visibility for it...Today...there’s no guarantee.” (17:18)

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5. What Makes a Good Agent–Author Relationship?

• Consensus: Good agents don’t disappear after the sale.
• Laura, a former acquisitions editor, reveals she saw many agents drop off post-sale—unwise in a world where so many decisions get made after the contract is signed:

“That can work. But there's a little bit of luck involved...It's unlikely the author will catch it on their own.” (25:17)

• The ideal agent stays looped in, anticipates problems, and is ever-available to advocate.

Bianca:

“I always tell my clients, CCing me is my love language.” (27:01)

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6. The Harsh Realities: Orphaned Books, Editorial Shifts, and Team Advocacy

• If an acquiring editor leaves before publication, agents act as the author’s permanent advocate.
• Multiple agents stress the importance of having the full imprint behind a book, not just one editor.

Charisse:

“If you have the support of the entire imprint...there’s still a foundation.” (29:57)

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7. End-of-Year Pressures and the Myth of the "Publishing Slowdown"

• Despite beliefs that publishing slows down in December, WSA agents describe packed schedules.
• Biancas: “We are supposed to be slowing down. Okay? Meanwhile, we're each super busy...” (31:58)
• Warm anecdotes about editor lunches and networking as the fun side of publishing.

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8. “The Old Days” and Publishing Nostalgia (Audience Q&A, 36:53–43:20)

One-liner answers:

• Wendy: “I would bring back time—a more luxurious pace.”
• Charisse: “Being able to pick up the phone and talk spontaneously.”
• Laura & Callie: “Bring back Book Expo America (BEA)!” (39:36)
• Bianca: “More media outlets for books, with actual budgets.”

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9. Editor Turnover Explained (Audience Q&A, 43:41–47:20)

• Editors move jobs constantly— Laura attributes this to profit instability (“follow the money”):

“Editors live with that instability...If you’re a smart editor...you might want to make a little leap where it looks like the ground is a little more stable.” (44:07)

• Career growth also typically demands a move.
• Publishing’s long book timelines worsen the impact.

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10. On Agent “Frenemy” Dynamics (Q&A, 49:50)

• Wendy: Agents can be friends; slight competitive edge is natural but not the same as being frenemies.

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11. Never Have I Ever: Agents’ Honesty Time (60:30–65:00)

A light-hearted, revealing rapid-fire segment. Sample confessions:

• All have made friends with clients.
• Most have submitted “unsellable” books—against the odds.
• Universal cringe at client social media posts.
• Two millennials admit AI-related anxiety (61:51)
• Several have been “tempted” to poach another agent's client (62:21)

Bianca (tongue-in-cheek):

“Temptation is defined by a desire in your heart. A strong desire in your heart. I am calling bullshit on everyone. Anyone who's not drinking. I don't believe you.” (62:33)

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12. Writer Guidance for 2026 (66:05–70:20)

Each agent shares a message for authors:

• Callie: “Follow submission guidelines. It only takes one person to believe in you.”
• Laura: “Being here already puts you head and shoulders above most submissions.”
• Charisse: “Thank you for showing up for yourselves and doing the work.”
• Wendy: “You don’t need validation from agents... Putting in the effort is beautiful.”

Bianca: Suggests making a specific investment in writing in 2026, something within your control.

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13. Big Bets: Publishing Predictions for 2026 (54:07–58:28)

• Callie: Publishers will pay more attention to Substack, follow engagement over sheer numbers, crave “uplifting” escapism.
• Laura: Books with “big, noisy, urgent” drama will thrive; ‘quiet’ books will be harder to place.
• Charisse: Predicts a wave of “quirky” books shaped by young, nostalgia-seeking readers.
• Wendy: Publishing’s core truth: “Good quality will always rise to the top.”

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14. Book Recommendations for the New Year (72:29–77:18)

• Wendy: The Correspondent – “Word of mouth still works. You don't have to get launched out of the gate as a bestseller.”
• Charisse: Sorry in Advance for Making Things Awkward by Disappointing Affirmations creators—“Perfect for a gift or party.”
• Laura: Hamnet by Maggie O’Farrell – “Read it before seeing the film adaptation.”
• Callie: Blair Horton's Mocktail Cookbook – “Great for dry January and gorgeous photography.”
• Bianca (cheeky plug): A Most Puzzling Murder by Bianca Marais – “Glass Onion meets Succession.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On collaboration and support:

  “Publishing is not a zero sum game. We're all in it together. There's always room for more good books.” – Laura Mazer (12:13)

• On agents disappearing post-sale:

  “The agents sell a book and then they come back when the book is ready to [publish]…It was very common, I’m sorry to say, very common, that agents would sell the book and then disappear.” – Laura Mazer (20:04)

• On industry change:

  “There’s so many more expectations on our authors in terms of marketing than there ever has been before… And consequently, there’s so much more we as agents are expected to do.” – Charisse Fisher (15:51)

• On trend prediction:

“Good books are good books, and will always find a way to the marketplace.” – Wendy Sherman (56:58)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:33: Start of agency meeting, team intros
• 05:05: Romantasy trend and genre diversification discussion
• 13:12: Collaborative “whisper network” insights
• 15:51: Discussion of increased author/agent marketing responsibilities
• 20:04–27:36: The agent’s post-contract role
• 29:57: On imprint enthusiasm and book “orphaning”
• 36:53: “Old days” nostalgia roundtable
• 43:41: Why do editors move jobs?
• 49:50: Agent friendships vs. frenemies
• 54:07: 2026 predictions
• 60:30: Never Have I Ever (fun/confessional game)
• 66:05: Messages to writers for 2026
• 72:29: Book recommendations segment

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, collegial, and supportive—alternating between sage advice and playful banter. The WSA team demystifies agenting and publishing, offering tough truths but with warmth and humor. The “Never Have I Ever” game brings in lighthearted confessions, affirming the team’s openness and trust.

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Books with Hooks: Comp Title Segment (77:23–100:08)

Emily Summer (bookstore pro) delivers personalized “comp title” recommendations for listener works-in-progress, offering up-to-date suggestions and commentary on finding market-appropriate comparisons for YA, romance, upmarket, historical, and even horror manuscripts.

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Closing Reflections

• Writers are reminded to persevere, network, and invest in their craft—success is about resilience, learning, and professional relationships as much as writing itself.
• The episode closes with heartfelt thanks and a call to stay engaged for more insights in the coming year:

“Remember, it just takes one yes.” – Bianca Marais (101:30)

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Want more? Find each agent’s top manuscript wishlist items pinned at @wsaliterary on Instagram or via wsherman.com.

For emerging writers seeking a blueprint for the creative journey—and an unvarnished look inside the machinery of “the business”—this episode delivers inspiration, strategy, and a few much-needed laughs.

Transcript

[Charisse Fisher]

Hi there.

[Bianca Murray]

We've got a lot we're really excited to tell you about, but I'm going to make this real quick so you can get to the episode. The Deep Dive is coming up at the end of January. The lineup of speakers is incredible and the range of topics is mind blowing. You do not want to miss out on the last deep dive ever. Then the beta reader matchup is open once again with the matchups going out early in February. Sign up to kick your creative year.

[Charisse Fisher]

Off with a bang.

[Bianca Murray]

Lastly, there's an amazing writer's workbook available which will make the perfect gift for you or the writer in your life. Head to our website the Shit About Writing to find out more.

[Charisse Fisher]

The holidays are creeping up fast.

[Emily Summer]

At the time of recording I haven't.

[Bianca Murray]

Bought a single thing.

[Charisse Fisher]

I am a last minute gift giver, I will admit that and I am not afraid to say it. And that is because I know Wayfair has me covered and I can get what I need fast with Wayfair. From last minute Guest print prep to Gifts for Everyone's Home Style what I love about Wayfair is when we were redesigning our main floor powder room, we were working with a really small space.

[Emily Summer]

And I knew the dimensions had to be perfect.

[Charisse Fisher]

With Wayfair I could get a vanity that was exactly my style, warm and modern in exactly the perfect dimensions. On their easy to navigate website, our contractor didn't have to wait because the delivery was fast and hassle free. The new vanity is perfect and we get so many compliments, especially as we have guests flowing through the house. This holiday season I'm getting ready for the cozy guest season with fresh throw blankets, new towels, kitchen essentials for all the meals and dishes that will need to be done. The huge selection of items makes it so easy to shop for everyone in your life and make your house ready for hosting. There's something for every style in every home, no matter your space or budgets. Find all your must haves and get.

[Emily Summer]

Ready to be surrounded by love and family this season.

[Charisse Fisher]

Get last minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home.

[Bianca Murray]

Hi there and welcome to our show the Shit no one tells you About Writing. I'm best selling author Bianca Murray and I'm joined by Cece Lehrer of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of P.S. literary. Welcome, everyone, to a very special episode of our podcast, Listen. We've had some really fun original episodes on the show, but I feel like today's episode will become a fan favorite. This is my prediction. Let's see if I'm right or not. So we have. If you're on Zoom, you already know. We have all four of my fantastic colleagues at Wendy Sherman Associates. So we have, of course, Wendy Sherman, our veteran. Our eponymous founder, the veteran publishing professional that everyone wants to be. We have Charisse Fisher, who recently got a new title at the agency. She is now the vice president, although I heard that a few people call her the queen, so we'll have to ask her about that. Laura Mazer. Laura Mazer's our superstar on the west coast with a heart of gold and a genius editorial eye. And we have Callie Dietrich, who, until I joined the agency, would call herself the Red Millennial. And so now we also have me. We have me because I, in addition to being here as your co host, today, I am here as a literary agent with my colleagues, and the goal is to give you guys kind of like a fly on the wall experience. So I want all our listeners and our viewers on YouTube to be able to say that you got to listen in on a meeting, a literary agency's meeting. And of course, we're going to be super mindful of confidentiality. We're not going to say names that we're not supposed to say or figures that we're not supposed to say. It will be a little different from actually being a fly on the wall. But, hey, it's close enough, and I'm super excited. So welcome, everyone. I'm super excited to have you here.

[Callie Dietrich]

Thanks for having us.

[Bianca Murray]

Everyone's smiling and nobody knows when to say. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to go in the following order, saying, hi, Wendy, Sharice, Laura Kelly. Okay, go.

[Wendy Sherman]

Hello. Hello. And so thrilled to be here.

[Charisse Fisher]

Hi, everybody. I'm Charisse. It is amazing to be here. Cece and I are old hats because she did my first Instagram live with me, so it's great to be back on the screen with her.

[Laura Mazer]

I'm so happy to be here, too. This is very fun. Cece, thanks for inviting us to do this with you, and I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[Callie Dietrich]

Hi, it's Kali. This is actually my first podcast ever, so I'm so honored, and I feel really safe to be surrounded by my. My team at wsa. So let's get this going.

[Bianca Murray]

I Love that. I love that. Your first podcast ever. Okay. I feel like we should just begin by having, like, our usual meeting again, being mindful that this will be on the Internet forever. Yeah, forever. Exactly.

[Charisse Fisher]

Forever.

[Bianca Murray]

So how's everyone's week going so far? Kali? Callie, how's your week?

[Callie Dietrich]

My week's been pretty good. I've been reading this romantasy that I can't put down, but I've been wondering if we think that, like, the bubble has popped yet. Do you think there's still room for more Romantasy, or is it so saturated that, like, you know, I haven't represented romance yet, but I do enjoy reading it for fun. So I was kind of curious what.

[Laura Mazer]

Your all's thoughts are.

[Charisse Fisher]

It's interesting that you bring that up because today was the last day of a class that I teach at City College, Introduction to Publishing, and I had about 16 or 17 students this year, and they're all ravid fantasy readers. In fact, on the last class, they present their book ideas. And so half of them picked these fantasy books. And we had actually a very lively conversation about where this trend came from. I did tell them that it seemed often as though editors and agents were kind of tired of the trend, and they were like, oh, my gosh, no. If this trend ever stops, I don't know what I would do. I think that these ideas that fantasy or romantasy is over. I think they're overblown because the actual people who read it are very attached to the genre and to the whole idea of world building.

[Callie Dietrich]

That's a relief.

[Wendy Sherman]

That's a great point. Such a great point. But I'm going to add that people who are public and fans and reading are loving it. And then publishing professionals need to be thinking about the fact that it's as much as two years from when we might read a novel and decide if we want to represent it until it's actually on the bookshelves.

[Charisse Fisher]

Very true.

[Wendy Sherman]

So it's hard to calculate exactly what any trend is going to go for and how it's going to last, but we do our best. And again, I think it's. It's always good to just go with your gut, with what you love, because then you can sort of be a trend buster and not a trend follower.

[Callie Dietrich]

Very helpful.

[Bianca Murray]

I feel like it says so much, Callie, that you're, like, loving it because, like, to your point, it's not a genre you've ever repped, right? And, like, I know you're like me in this respect, which is if you fall in love with a story. It's so rare that you're like, you have. You have to try it. You can't not try it.

[Wendy Sherman]

You.

[Callie Dietrich]

Yes, but there's always in the back of your head, questions about how will this fit in the marketplace, all that kind of stuff that you have to weigh as well. So, yeah, I just wanted to hear all your thoughts about it. So thank you.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, that's totally fair. Laura, how's your week?

[Laura Mazer]

I love this question about when we dive into other topics and different categories. It's so true. If you fall in love with something, you want to champion it. That's why we do this job, for the people and the stories and the ideas that we put into the world. But each category, each topic, each angle has its own rubric. And they're very nuanced rubrics that editors have in mind. And if we don't know what they are, and we go out to editors and say, look, we're so excited about this, we want to know that they're going to be excited too. We don't always have those crystal balls to tell us what on that particular day is the nuance they're having in mind is romantasy over. I don't think it is. I think it's here to stay, actually. We'll see what happens. But I'm always so eager to try something new and branch out. My own rule for myself is only one new category at a time. So I'm all over the place when I'm just skeptical. But if I can choose one new category at a time, immerse myself, learn the best practices for that particular category, then typically it works out a whole lot better.

[Bianca Murray]

It's a smart rule. I like that rule.

[Charisse Fisher]

Yeah.

[Wendy Sherman]

It's a lot of self control, though, right? It's a lot of self control because if you fall in love with something, it's hard to say no to it.

[Bianca Murray]

I mean, for me, it's impossible. It's not hard. I can't do it. To me, it's like resisting a chocolate chip cookie. Like, I can't. I will not resist.

[Laura Mazer]

I like too many things. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. You have to know the people, you have to know the trends, you have to know the nuances, what's working, what isn't working on a very micro level. And if I don't feel confident, then I don't want to only stick to my own categories forever and forevermore. I want to branch out. We all do. We want to do more and get greater, bigger, more exciting stories out into the world. But I just have to set a limit, or else I'm scrambling in too many different directions at once. So I have my core categories that I know I love, and so right at home in them. And then here and there, I'll bring in something new or different and see how that goes.

[Bianca Murray]

Wendy, this reminds me of your really good perspective on aging Tang, which is like, we're, like. Like managing a hedge fund, so we need to diversify. You know, we need to make sure that we have, like, a diverse portfolio, because trends come and go. And so, yeah, I think that's really interesting. You do.

[Wendy Sherman]

And you can't put all your stock in one in one thing, because then if that thing is over, you're stuck with the wrong basket. Right. So I love that. I love the idea of trying different things and opening yourself up. I think, as an agent, it's easy to feel like you're in a rut, but it's fun to just challenge yourself. And fortunately, we have access to information where, if we need to figure out what editor might be perfect for a particular book, we can do the research on Publishers Marketplace by seeing who's acquiring what. We're not always right, but I think we have access to that information, and it's fun to kind of stretch your muscles.

[Callie Dietrich]

And the publishing whisper network sounds.

[Bianca Murray]

Oh, yeah. And, like, I'm sure we all have that one editor per imprint that we can call because we're friendly, and you can be like, who at yours would be perfect for xyz? That's so valuable.

[Wendy Sherman]

I love that this is. We're talking about this, because I feel like one of the things we do here is that I love is that we brainstorm with each other about who the right editor might be for a project, because we all have different relationships, right? We all have different friendships. Over the years, we kind of get the brain trust of the five of us every time we're going with a project. Oh, yeah, that's, to me, is gold.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, it's definitely, like, I feel so safe when I go out with a project, being at Wendy Sherman Associates, because I know, like, it's not just my brain that my client's getting. It's everyone's brain.

[Callie Dietrich]

Cece, you've already taught me things as well. Like, I love your idea since you've joined the agency, too. Yeah, you've taught me things.

[Bianca Murray]

Wait, was it about chocolate chip cookies?

[Callie Dietrich]

Definitely. Now I know what a brigadero is. Yeah. On a real note, Cece, I loved Your idea of including the pitch letter in the manuscript so that it's always like easy access for an editor, I'm like, that's just brilliant. So that's why it's so great to hear other point of views when we're working this business.

[Bianca Murray]

Aw, thank you.

[Laura Mazer]

Publishing is not a zero sum game. We're all in it together. There's always room for more good books. And what I love about our industry is we can ask each other. And not just in this group, but we can't ask each other. Thank goodness. I don't know what I would do without all of you. But I also speaking to the whisper network, I have other agent friends and people who do maybe overlapping categories and I can shoot them a little WhatsApp or Slack or email or text and say, hey, I'm going out with this. Who do you think would be a great editor for it? And everyone is always so lovely about answering. It's nice to have friends who are agents at other agencies, fresh perspectives, different intel. Obviously there are certain things we have to keep to ourselves and we do, but there's just no reason why we can't all support each other and champion each other. And I love that about our industry. And when people, on the rare occasion I need an agent who's more buttoned up and not so interested in collaborating, I think, well, this is an outlier. The rest of us, I think are very share and share, like with information.

[Charisse Fisher]

Definitely true.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that. Okay, Charisse, how's your week going?

[Charisse Fisher]

It's going pretty well. I have an author coming out with a book in February, Sadiqwa Johnson, Keeper of Lost Children. And I have an author who's coming out with a book in June. The missed connection. And for both of them. So early on, we're in the process of doing the behind the scenes pre order marketing stuff. I mean, it seems kind of crazy to be thinking about pre ordering for a book that is in June. And it's not that we expect someone to pre order the book today, although some people did. We did the COVID reveal this week. It was a cover that was entirely different from the direction that we were going in originally. And we had to make a very quick decision about what the new cover would be because we announced the COVID reveal with Goodreads, big supporter of her books and a huge writing reading community. So we were very excited that they wanted to do the COVID reveal for us. Anyway, so we did the COVID reveal and just the reception for this cover that we've made a decision about in like three days was very exciting. It's like, oh, wow. I guess we did the right thing because everybody's loving it. You know, it's really spreading far and wide. So that happened this week, which was always nice to see people now calling us for copies. When is it going to be ready? The movie people want to know when it's going to be ready, how subwrites the person, all those people. There's all this, like buzz happening for it, which is exciting. Even though it seems like a far away, it's not really far away. And then Sadiqa's book, Keeper of Lost Children is not far away at all. Like, I feel like that book's coming out tomorrow. And in her case, we're kind of finalizing the pre order. Although the pre order can't really happen in December because people are focused on spending their holiday money. So we have to have everything ready to go in January. It's just an exciting time. But it just reminds me that there's so many more expectations on our authors in terms of marketing than there ever has been before. It feels like that to me. I've been in the industry for quite some years and the responsibility, what falls on the author nowadays seems like so much more than 10 years ago. Would you agree with that, you guys? Like, I just feel like there's so much more that they're expected to do. And consequently there's so much more that we as agents are expected to do. As a result of the fact that there's so much more. Our authors come to us. They don't necessarily know how to do a pre order campaign. They don't necessarily know how important it is to get a ring light. I remember during 2020, that was like the ring light season. I was like, you guys gotta. You gotta get a ring light, you know, and all of a sudden we're agents. I'm an agent by day, but I'm also a set designer. Like, what's behind you? Let's curate the background. You know, all of those ways in which our industry is changing, how our jobs are evolving, and I actually kind of love it. But this week, because of the COVID reveal, because of this pre order campaign that we're launching, it made me realize that as an agent, we're ever expanding what our responsibilities are. It's a good thing.

[Wendy Sherman]

Couldn't agree more, Therese. It is just. It's where we get to be all things to all people. The authors have to do the same. And I think, I think frankly, the editors have to do the same thing. You know, I think editors need to be in so many different departments. They have to be knowledgeable about every step of the way and hands on. And that. I don't think that was necessarily true 10 years ago even, because there were people in departments that did things and they're still there.

[Charisse Fisher]

But the.

[Wendy Sherman]

But the editor needs to sort of project manage every step of the process with us as partners.

[Charisse Fisher]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Laura Mazer]

Ten years ago, we were pretty close to where we are now. Obviously the pandemic changed a lot of it and kicked it into high gear. Maybe 20 years ago was different, but I think 10 years ago we were still seeing the same pressure on editors to do everything, be everything, be that point person for all departments, both in house and for the author. Now agents have more to participate in, though, because as the publishers are ramping up their reliance on the author to provide visibility for their books, without visibility, no one can buy it. That authors somehow feel everyone's looking at me to spread the word that this exists. And if they're not sure how to go about doing that, the publisher can help. Absolutely. But it's really the agent who's in the corner all the way and can sit down with them slowly think through, what do you have to work with? Who are your people? Where can we find them? Let's go find them and speak to them and meet them where they are and tell them about your book. If we don't have visibility for the book, people can't buy it. And it used to be that publishers were fairly confident that if they selected a book and they felt that they loved this book and were investing in it, they could get visibility for it, they could get publicity, they could have a really successful marketing campaign today with this crazy, noisy world we have, there's no guarantee, especially when we're planning anywhere from six months to two years ahead of time, there's no guarantee that any book is going to get the attention you want it to from external media, from other people who are uninvested, like newspapers, magazines, podcasts. The only thing we know absolutely for sure is that the author is going to be motivated to have people see their book. So agents and editors and agents and authors are getting together and strategizing, and editors and authors are getting together, everyone's strategizing. How do we get eyes on this?

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, I feel like this reminds me of when an editor once told me she got asked a question at this roundtable, which was, what's something agents do that you don't like and that you wish they didn't do. And she said, well, some agents, not, not most of them, but some, they disappear after a project sells. And I can only imagine, like, how difficult that must be, right? If, if an agent does disappear, like all of a sudden you don't have that contact person, and that's really important. And I. I mean, I'm pretty sure it's not very common because, you know, that's not good agenting behavior. But you just need the agent there to really give the author support, but also be able to, like, talk to the editor and just be that bridge the person who can calm them down and kind of like give perspective too, which is so important.

[Laura Mazer]

That happens all the time. The agents sell a book and then they come back when the book is ready to pub and think all the time. So I don't know if everyone, of course my team knows, but for anyone watching, five years ago, I made the switch from being in house as an acquisitions editor to being an agent. I switched from buying to selling. And so for most of my years working in publishing, I was on the acquisition side. Agents would come to me bringing their projects, and it was my job to help assess which were the right projects for my team, whatever team I was in at that particular moment. And I saw all the agenting ways that. All the ways that agents can do what they do. And it was very common, I'm sorry to say, very common, that agents would sell the book and then disappear. They put us in touch, and then they'd be gone. And they might show up for contract things. They might show up for something critical. Other than that, we really didn't hear from them again until the book came out. I think this is very sad. I also, however, saw all the wonderful agents. I saw Wendy. Wendy and I did a number of books together. And every time we did a book together, that's how you do it. You show up for the important decisions. You. You're collaborative. You join the team of author, agent, publisher to help make everything the book can be and not see it as you against us and against him. The plan is for us all to participate in the creation of a very successful book. And agents have a lot that they can do in that space. If they're. If they step up and do it, we do it. That's how we run our agency. That's how we do things. I love that. I would be very sad for an author who had the kind of agent who sells their book and then goes away.

[Charisse Fisher]

I mean, it sounds terrible. I just want to say that different agents are Good at different things. When people ask me advice about how do I know what agent should I pick? I'm like, well, it depends on what you want. Those agents who come in, do the hard sale and come out, they're on to the next sale. And if you as a writer wanted more than anything, someone to get you a really big, fat, juicy number, that might be a good fit for you. If you are someone who, let's say you're, I don't know, maybe you're. You have a particular business about, you know, selling eyeglasses and this. You're not a career author. You're somebody who sees the opportunity to get a bit of extra cash into your business by doing this book. And you're not into the hand holding and you've hired a writer to actually write it. And you don't have the kind of creative investment that we're talking about. The person that comes in and gets you the biggest sum of money, it might be right for you. I just think on the other side, there are some editors who are so precious editorially that they might sit there and work on your manuscript for four years because they don't think it's perfect yet. So they might not have any sense of urgency. Right. That might not be the right fit to you. Maybe they want to be there to hold your hand through everything. And maybe you don't need that. I don't know. I mean, I think that different people want and need different things. It's certainly not the way we do things, but I do think that there are people out there who want that kind of agent.

[Wendy Sherman]

I hear what you're saying, Charisse, but I'm going to disagree a little bit and say I don't know anybody who would benefit from having someone just come in, make the sale and disappear. Because what agents have to offer and the role that we play in today's publishing environment is so much more than that. And I do think you can get someone who does all of that. And if you're only getting someone to make the deal, maybe you just need a lawyer. I don't know. To me that. I mean, I wouldn't suggest that to anyone, but I feel as though you can have. I think most agents I know are really hands on. Every step of the process they come in, they're very particular about who they submit the project to. They are very clear and mindful about not just finding the right editor because that's the imprint the editor works with, but that they feel like there's like a. Like an alignment you know, I love that word, alignment. There's an alignment in terms of how those two people are going to work together. Because once you're in the trenches, we all know there's going to be bumps in the road. You want to have that person who's sitting by your side and standing up for you. We've all been there as agents, every one of the five of us, where you need to get involved and push back on something and stand up and really make a fuss, if you will, to make sure that the client gets what they're looking for and what their book deserves. So I just think, yes, there are bad agents. Let's be honest. There are people who I wouldn't recommend not going to name that. It doesn't matter. But. But you can have someone who ticks all the boxes.

[Charisse Fisher]

You can definitely have someone ticks all the boxes. There's five of them right here. You know, there's five of them right here. But my point is, is that it doesn't necessarily make them a bad agent. It makes them a bad fit for you, I think, and a bad fit for the typical author, maybe. Yeah, but.

[Laura Mazer]

But it's a luck thing. If you go, if you have one of those agents who, I'm going to sell your book and then I gotta move on. I got other stuff to do. So hope it goes well. That can work. But there's a little bit of luck involved because you have to be lucky that you like the COVID they give you, that they don't change the title and subtitle without consulting you appropriately, that they set a pub date that works for you, that all of the decisions your publisher is making along the way, and there are many, many, many of them are going to work for you. Because at the time that something happens, if your publisher makes a decision you don't like cover, title, subtitle, timing, campaign, or they skip a step in the process of making a good, successful book, it's unlikely the author will catch it on their own. This is why I'm always telling my clients, you see me on everything. I don't care. Fill up my inbox. It's really, really fine. It's much easier for me to catch when something is about to go a tiny bit awry on the front end than for me to find out later something went awry and now I have to go back and try to untangle something, fix it when the deadline might have already passed. Right. Like, so the day before a book goes to the printer. Probably not the time to alert me that you Hate your cover. But if I'm there, the moment that those covers show up in your inbox and you're saying, I don't really love this, then I can do something about it. I can advocate. I can get in there and have a good conversation. If you leave the agent out of it, there are steps that can be missed or choices that can be made that are not advantageous.

[Charisse Fisher]

Totally true.

[Bianca Murray]

I 1000% agree with that. And I always tell my clients, CCing me is my love language. Like, you want to make your first name.

[Charisse Fisher]

Yes, cc cece.

[Bianca Murray]

Like, please. It's just important because a good agent will do everything you described, Laura. And then sometimes we're also able to, in addition to all that, spot things before they even happen. Like, the COVID should be here by now. Hold on. Or I haven't heard anything about format yet. Or print run or. Or whatever it is. Like, we can sometimes anticipate issues, like.

[Charisse Fisher]

Because we know what's happening. Yeah, exactly.

[Bianca Murray]

And so much of what we do for our clients is, like, not letting the bad stuff even happen in the first place.

[Callie Dietrich]

Yeah. I feel like we're working behind the scenes, so we're not always see. Seeing our author. So, like, sometimes you got to have an aside with the editor, be like, are we sure about that pub date? Like, things where you don't want to alarm the author, but you have your concerns that you wouldn't know about if you weren't in the loop.

[Charisse Fisher]

True.

[Wendy Sherman]

And let's add to this controversy that there is a chance, a reasonable chance, that by the time from the time you sell your book until the time that you hand in your manuscript and when it's published, your editor might not be there anymore.

[Charisse Fisher]

Yeah, I was just about to say.

[Wendy Sherman]

You sold the book to. And then who is your anchor inside the publishing house now? I've seen it happen where the editor that comes in, as you know, we call it being orphaned when. When an editor leaves and then the author is given to another editor, it doesn't always turn out badly at all. I mean, I've seen it happen in a great way, but it's is. It is like a major bump in the road that needs to be over. You have to oversee it to ensure that the author still feels cared for and loved and make sure that the project is getting the attention it deserves and would have had if that original editor who went out of their way and fought to buy the book. Now they're gone. Now you've got to go in there and really push for it.

[Charisse Fisher]

Absolutely.

[Laura Mazer]

Factor in this is that even if you do have the same editor, if the editor's team is telling the editor, don't change the COVID don't change the tag, don't change the pub date, the editor works for the boss and the team in house, but we get to work for the author. Obviously, we're not going to advocate champion some wish of our authors that it's irrational, but if it's a rational wish, we can champion them 100%. It feels so good to say there's something went awry here. It needs to be fixed. Whereas an editor can't always do that. I think they always want to. I think editors really want to make their authors happy. But if they go back to their team and say, my author's not happy, they don't like this cover, they don't like whatever it is, that's problematic. And the boss says, well, change their minds. That's the editor's job. Go change their minds. That's a hard thing to grapple with all by yourself. That's when you need your agents in there who can do a better job of it for you.

[Charisse Fisher]

That also reminds me of when I sell a book to an editor, I really try to make sure I'm selling it to an imprint. So I really want to make sure that there is an editor in chief or an editorial director that's enthusiastic about it. I'd love to be able to know that the publisher is enthusiastic about it. I love having those meetings right before we sell a book. I love having a meeting with the publishing company where there's a publicist that shows up, where there is an editor in chief that shows up. Because if you have the support of the entire imprint, should one person out of that team be somewhere else, there's still a foundation and there's still relationships that I have with other people at the imprint that can help keep the enthusiasm going over the book.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that insight. Okay, now, Wende, how's your week going so far?

[Charisse Fisher]

Yes, how's your week, Wendy? Well.

[Wendy Sherman]

Oh, boy.

[Bianca Murray]

That is our fearless leader. How's your week?

[Wendy Sherman]

I'm going to preface this by saying we're coming up to the end of the year, so there's like a lot of stuff happening that happens as the year comes to a close. So we're closing a few deals still, which is exciting, and we're putting out a few fires, which is not so exciting. But it has to be done. And I would say, like, things are kind of intense right now. I think that there's like a Pressure that comes at certain periods of time in publishing because publishing closes for the holidays and because, like, at the end of the summer, people feel, like, pressure that they want to get things done. That's just to say that I think things are pretty intense right now. And I have talked to editors this week who are like, wow, it is just wild right now. And I just think we're all trying to finish up. Finish up business. And that just. It makes it fun and exciting and challenging all at the same time. And, I mean, we know that people in publishing never really take a break, right? I mean, I don't think they do. I know. I don't. I don't know if all of us.

[Bianca Murray]

It's a myth. Like, oh, publishing slows down in December. Like, look at all of us. Okay, so for our listeners, today is December 9th. I know that this will only air in 20 days, but it's December 9th. We are supposed to be slowing down. Okay? Meanwhile, we're each super busy with everything from, like, new clients that we're speaking to, potential new clients, buyers. We're putting out deals, we're closing editorial calls that we're having. Shareese has all the publicity things that you mentioned. Like, it's. It's all Kelly. You had lunch with someone, didn't you, about a book?

[Callie Dietrich]

Yes, I did. I had lunch recently with Lori at Crown. Maybe I'm not supposed to name names, but we're working together on a.

[Bianca Murray]

It's public information.

[Callie Dietrich]

Yeah, we're working together on a speculative debut that I sold her this summer. So we had lunch recently, and she gave me an advanced copy of this book that's coming out in May and gonna be huge. So I'm like, that's the fun part of publishing when you get these books ahead of the public. And I'm like, this.

[Charisse Fisher]

Wait, she gave you an arc for May book?

[Callie Dietrich]

Yeah, and it's gonna be really big. This author, she's like, a huge podcaster, and I think there was already, like, massive pre orders. And I'm loving it. I'm really enjoying it. I'm like, should I plug a agency's book? I don't know, but that's, like, it's really fun to get those insights and kind of see into the future a little bit.

[Bianca Murray]

You can plug anything. We're generous. We're generous, loving people who want authors to succeed. Like, I feel very strongly that, like, I'm gonna borrow Laura's words, this is not a zero sum game.

[Callie Dietrich]

No, definitely not. Yeah. So it's. It's really Great to have those one on ones with editors and get that FaceTime and you learn things that you never would have known about them otherwise. So it's really valuable.

[Bianca Murray]

What I think is, I mean, for my week, like, I am so excited about certain things that are happening that I'm not allowed to talk about. Been having some really great conversations about a project at the same time. It's December, so it's one of those. It's one of those situations where contacting people and getting everyone to be like on the same page is such a challenge. And I'm also like kind of celebrating you guys because I signed a new client. Yay. She signed the contract today. So it was a referral by my client, Laura Loeffler. It's for a fantastic novel. She's written a really terrific thriller, like a psychological thriller. I'll work it. So fun. So, like, really excited about that. So it's a celebratory weekend, so I'm going to share.

[Wendy Sherman]

Like one of the fun things for me right now is I'm actually going to a luncheon tomorrow. A lunch, but like a lot. I think a luncheon means, like there's more than two people. But I'm going to a publishing luncheon tomorrow. I think there are going to be eight people there, women. And we're all in, you know, really interesting, different positions in publishing, marketing, editorial, obviously I'm an agent. All these different things. And I think it's going to be fun to really dish and share insights on how our companies are doing and what's happening behind the scenes in each person's area of work. And so that's just something I'm looking forward to. You didn't ask the question, but I'm just throwing it out there that one of the things we don't get to do quite as much as we used to, which is to really have sit down face to face, talk to people, share ideas, see who's excited about what, and get each other excited about the books that we're excited about. So I'm really looking forward to that tomorrow.

[Charisse Fisher]

Where's the lunch? Where is it? Not that. I mean, it's going to be 29.

[Wendy Sherman]

It's at a very bougie restaurant in Manhattan called Robert. And it's gorgeous. And anyway, it's going to be fun. You won't find me around tomorrow at lunchtime.

[Laura Mazer]

Put a little recording device under the table so we can all hear it.

[Wendy Sherman]

We might all have to sign an NDA.

[Charisse Fisher]

An NDA.

[Bianca Murray]

I feel like that's Just understood it's us. Like it's the paternal WSA NDA. It actually rhymes, so it's cute. Okay, so actually, Wendy, your comment is great because it's a perfect seg into some of the audience questions that we're going to take. So some of our listeners sent in questions. It was a very select group of listeners that I reached out to. I do not want a mutiny in my hands. So we did get way more than I will be asking. I'm going to choose a few. Please, if your question is not answered, don't get mad at me. There's limited time because we all have to go sell books. You know, we wish we could be here all day, but we have to go sell books. So. Okay, everyone's gonna say one thing, like one liner answers. Okay. What's something about the old days of publishing? Think martini lunches and self addressed stamped envelopes that you would bring back if you could. Wende, you go first.

[Wendy Sherman]

I'm gonna say time. I think there was a pace that was a little more luxurious and you know, the work got done, but it wasn't quite as intense. Every single hour of every day, Wendy.

[Bianca Murray]

Would bring back luxurious pace. I love that. Charisse. What would you bring back if you could?

[Charisse Fisher]

I knew. Why did I know that you were going to go to me next? What would I bring back?

[Bianca Murray]

I'm gonna go to your last. I can do that.

[Charisse Fisher]

No, no, I mean, I'm gonna deal with it head on. What would I bring back? I mean, it's interesting. Back in the old days, I was on the other side of the desk. I guess I. One of the things that I miss is being able to pick up the phone and talk to people very easily. Nowadays you have to schedule a phone call with someone. Remember those days when it was just like you knew you called this number, it was a landline, and they picked up or they put you on hold or they called you right back. Like it was just a lot easier to talk to people. I actually started when I started in publishing in the summer of 1994. I did not even have an email address. Neither did my boss. Right. Like, so we talked to each other a lot more, you know, and I miss those days of being able to call someone immediately and get them within a day. Now it's a little bit more complicated.

[Bianca Murray]

That's a great one. Being able to pick up the phone and call someone. Okay.

[Charisse Fisher]

Spontaneously.

[Bianca Murray]

Spontaneously, yeah. Laura, you, you go.

[Laura Mazer]

I am going to be controversial here and say I miss Bea Book Expo, the big conference at Javits center all stole Callie's answer. I love Bea because mine is also. I really would like to slow the pace down, have a little more time to focus on each individual project. But I had to pivot, Callie. So start thinking it's a pivot. Because, Bea, I know not everybody loves it, but what an exciting thing to walk up and down the halls, see what everyone's doing all at once. There's a little bit of like a high school reunion vibe sometimes because you'd bump into people you worked with three implants ago. Right. That was so fun. And it gives you an opportunity to catch up that wouldn't find its way to you in another manner. It's just like this organic, beautiful way to all come together and have a chit chat in the lane and bring some fun books home and maybe a tote bag or two. And a pen. And a pen and all that swaggy stuff. I loved it. I miss it. I'm holding by that, Kelly.

[Bianca Murray]

You don't have to think of a new one. You can just echo that because I knew you were going to answer that because you and I have chatted about this. It's up to you.

[Callie Dietrich]

I refuse to pivot. I really want Book Expo back as well. Let's make it not controversial. Coming home with a giant stack of books and a new tote bag and all that kind of just excitement of being the David Center. I miss it, and I think it will be back soon. We'll manifest it.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, what? What's bookcon? Is bookcon? How is bookcon? What is bookcon?

[Callie Dietrich]

That is for, like, readers. So it's like Book Expo is for us, the publishing professional readers.

[Laura Mazer]

And so agents would come by. If I was the editor, agents would come by and they'd show me a list of the projects that they were looking at for the following, you know, quarter, maybe, whatever they had coming soon. And I put my initials next to the ones I was interested in, and lo and behold, that project would show up in my inbox two weeks later. It was so efficient. I love this.

[Charisse Fisher]

You got to kill Bea. What killed Bea?

[Wendy Sherman]

I think it was. I think it was gone before COVID I just think it sounds so expensive. I mean, publishers spent like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to have this huge booth and display their books and have all their staff there. And the booksellers had to fly in from all over the country, wherever it was taking place. It wasn't always at Javits. It would sometimes be Chicago. It was really a traveled East Coast Midwest, you know, all across the country every year. But I think it was just the expense of it, frankly. It's sort of like why sales conferences don't exist in the same way they used to where they publishers would fly in. Everybody on staff, like literally everybody who was involved in selling and making books would come to these conferences and they'd have it in these fun places, really fun places. So. So I think it was. I just think it's a. Economics. I hate to say it, I don't want to be the doomsayer here, but I think that's what it was.

[Charisse Fisher]

Well, I mean, very specifically, I think it's the fact that they don't have booksellers like that anymore. I think it's the fact that the retail environment is so much smaller. Not smaller in terms, but like so much more. What's the word? I want like unified. Like it's Amazon, it's Target, it's like these one stop shops. Whereas there used to be so many small little independent bookstores. Although the independent bookstore is coming back with the full force.

[Wendy Sherman]

Agree.

[Bianca Murray]

Yes, yes, totally agree with you. All the snaps. So mine was also stolen. And then what I will do then is come up with a new one. Because I actually wanted a lot of things to come back. I would bring back just more media outlets that cover books. You know, like more media outlets. Because this is an increasingly short, shrinking category. Like it feels like every day we have, you know, fewer and fewer. And that frustrates me. And so more really great media outlets with budgets. You know, like I want a budget, I want money. I like money. I'm very unapologetic about this. Money's fun. Let's talk about how money's fun. So yeah, that's what I would bring back. That's my spiel.

[Charisse Fisher]

I agree with you. But what you're talking about are like professional outlets. Because there's actually a plethora of book talkers out there, like human beings.

[Bianca Murray]

And I want those to stay. Like I want both.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, you want both. Okay. I don't know.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, I want both. I'm not liking the other.

[Charisse Fisher]

She's not a pick one or the other girl. I love that.

[Laura Mazer]

No.

[Charisse Fisher]

Why choose between vanilla and chocolate?

[Bianca Murray]

Yes, Just have both. Actually have specifically vanilla bean ice cream with chocolate fudge. Like that's the right way to go.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh yeah, that's.

[Laura Mazer]

And chocolate chip cookies on top. I know you.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, I'm gonna move on to our next question from the audience. This one's going to be because I want to ask A few questions just for a few people, just so that we can ask more. Because I, you know, or else we won't have time for everything. Laura, All I hear from my agent, this is an agented author. All I hear from my agent is how much editors move. Why do you think that happens?

[Laura Mazer]

Oh, there's a lot of moving. That's a good question and a true question. Editors do move their jobs a lot. They're like literate tumbleweeds. But this is not because they're not flaky. This is not about flakiness, as in most things. When we ask questions about public. But why? But why to follow the money thing? I think it's a follow the money thing. Tell me if you disagree, you guys, that this is my take on this. Publishing is a precarious industry. It's not like there are these wide margins of profit. It's very hard to make a profit on any book, no matter what it is, let alone an entire list at an imprint at a big publishing company. And at any time, if that margin gets even smaller than what the publisher was predicting, it makes a lot of anxiety in house. And the people who sit in the offices and make decisions about organizing companies, they're going to want to fiddle. They're going to want to, instead of letting the pressure trickle down and live in a space where their books are, aren't making as much profit as possible in that little margin, is they're going to say, let's pivot, let's streamline, let's future proof, let's course correct. And they'll want to fiddle with things. Maybe they'll merge two imprints. Maybe they'll take an imprint and split it into two. I know an editor that's had the same job but under five different imprints through all the time that she's been working because she keeps getting acquired or shifted or traded out. And editors live with that instability. They live with the knowledge that at any point, if the numbers aren't looking great, the publisher or their boss or their boss will say, let's make a change. And that might mean you lose your job, your team gets absorbed by another team, they don't need you anymore, they're going to fold your imprint, they're going to start a new imprint, whatever it is. So if you're a smart editor and you don't want to not have a job, and you see there's a very cool job in another imprint, you might want to make a little leap where it looks like the ground is a little more Stable. If the industry overall, if the profit margins were more stable and predictable, I think we would see less moving around. Of course, I don't know. That's another question for the crystal ball. But I think it has to do with the money. The job instability for editors is so much pressure I really feel for editors. That's all. Save the editors people, they work so hard and for so little safety net. So thank you, editors, for all that you do. And I'm not only saying that because I used to live in that space for so long. I really, this is. It continues to this day that editors do everything for everybody and they love what they do. If they didn't love it, they probably hate it, but they do love it. And staying in one job for a long time is a rare, exciting thing for an editor.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, I know a couple acquiring editors who listen to this. So they will now love you even more. Laura Kelly, did you want to say something?

[Callie Dietrich]

I was going to say, I think it's also about opportunities for growth and promotion. Oftentimes I don't think if you stay, they're going to give you that raise you need and deserve. So unfortunately, I think that's a driving force as well for why people struggle.

[Bianca Murray]

So, like, you have to move out in order to move up. Because that's what I hear too.

[Callie Dietrich]

That's kind of the vibe I get from editors, which is still a follow.

[Laura Mazer]

The money to follow the money. Yeah, it's all about the money.

[Callie Dietrich]

Definitely on both sides.

[Bianca Murray]

Publishing, we love you. You drive us bananas.

[Charisse Fisher]

I do think that's every industry. You always quit your way too rich. That's every industry. The problem, why we are so aware of it is because publishing is actually a very small industry, you know, but who stays at a particular bank for 45 years?

[Bianca Murray]

I also think that the reason we notice it more might be because of the long Runway for a book to come out. So, you know, we sell a book and then, you know, there's a lot that can happen, you know, before the book comes out. If books came out a month after they got acquired, we probably wouldn't feel the pain as much. Can you imagine that world, guys? We just sell books and they come out. Guys. If you're not watching on YouTube, you have to, because Kali's face when I said that, purely magical, hypothetical.

[Callie Dietrich]

She was like, when I tell people outside of industry that it takes two years for the book to pub, they don't believe me. Like, wait, that book hasn't published yet? I'm like, no, I sold it like Last year. What are you talking about? It's hard for them to wrap their mind around.

[Bianca Murray]

Like, my, my non publishing friends think I'm crazy. They're like, what, two years? No, that makes no sense.

[Callie Dietrich]

Exactly.

[Wendy Sherman]

I mean, even authors are shocked by it, right? Well, an author is shocked by it. You sell their book and you're having a conversation with them and their editor the first week after you make the sale, and they're saying, yeah, we're thinking of publishing the book two and a half years from now.

[Charisse Fisher]

Right.

[Wendy Sherman]

I mean, I think it's just shocking to people. Even people who are authors want to be authors and have sold their book. They're surprised how long it takes.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, even readers.

[Wendy Sherman]

And you don't want to rush it. You really don't want to rush it.

[Charisse Fisher]

You don't want to rush it.

[Bianca Murray]

You don't. A long Runway is so useful. I mean, just look at Shareese's anecdote about her week, right? Like, Shareese, you've been working with your two clients whose books are come out next year, and you're doing all this marketing, all this publicity, and like, you need that Runway to build a buzz and to make sure that. That those books will break out and be the success that.

[Charisse Fisher]

I mean, two years actually goes by really quickly. Actually, that's the weird thing. Two years goes by really quickly. You know, I mean, compared to a magazine where you blink and there it is coming out of a, you know, a printing machine, that's one thing. But you could go, you could work on a movie for 10 years before it's made. So.

[Bianca Murray]

That's so true. Okay, so, Wendy, this one's for you. Can agents be friends with other agents outside their agency, or is it always a frenemy situation? P.S. this author. This author who, who sent in this question asked me to add that she is writing a book not about agents, but about frenemies for whatever.

[Wendy Sherman]

That's interesting. Interesting. That's a great topic. I'm going to say, yes, agents definitely can be friends with other agents outside their agency. I have many friends who are agents. I don't like the word frenemy. Or listen, it's a real word. And there's definitely frenemies. But I think what it is is that agents in some sort of innate way are competitive. That's what makes us good agents, is we're competitive. And so it's hard not to feel like you're always selling even when you're with your agent friends. Like you're talking about the deal you just made or the author you just signed or the big review you just got with your author. So I don't think that's a frenemy. So I'm going to give. That was a half and half answer.

[Bianca Murray]

I like that. Okay, Callie, this one's for you. What's something that's changed for you in your life slash agent life in 2025? Was it a positive change or a negative change?

[Callie Dietrich]

Well, I think the team knows that I got married this year, so it was a very positive change. But I do think it's, you know, impacting my taste in books as well. Like, I read the wedding people this year. I read the husbands. I'm definitely interested in books that grapple with that kind of, you know, new marriage or, like, planning a wedding. There's just so much drama that's rife with all that. So, yeah, that's. That's the big update from me.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that.

[Callie Dietrich]

Definitely positive.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. And it's a change in your life and agent life because, as you said, it affected your taste.

[Callie Dietrich]

Yeah.

[Laura Mazer]

They say that if you want to learn about a person, an editor or an agent, go look at their books. So anybody who wanted to get to know Callie, if they followed along what she's reading or acquiring, they might learn a little bit that reflects her personal life. I mean, that makes sense, right? It does.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, it makes sense. But I want to go on the record and say that I represent some disturbing books. Guys, this does not reflect my life.

[Wendy Sherman]

Okay.

[Bianca Murray]

It might reflect my inner life, but my life. My life is quite nice and tame.

[Laura Mazer]

Okay, I want to go on the record.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, Charisse, this one's for you. And this person specifically asked me to ask you.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, gosh.

[Bianca Murray]

So can you please ask Cerise? I know she's close to queries, but I need to know this about her purely because I'm curious. Oh, what is your editorial process like with your fiction clients?

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, it depends on who the fiction client is. It depends on what they need from me and what they want from me. So I could have an author. I could have a client like Diane Maree Brown who gives me a manuscript that's like, and here's a manuscript. I'm like, oh, you're working on something. I mean, I kind of always know she's working on something, but I know about the. It's funny. Sadiq was calling me right now. I know about the book when she delivers a draft to me. Right. And then on the flip side of that is Sadiqa, who's calling me right now. Who will Schedule a telephone call with me and say, I'm thinking about the book. And it sounds like this. So it really just depends on the client, the answer to that question, whether how much support they need.

[Bianca Murray]

You adapt to your clients. That's your style.

[Charisse Fisher]

I adapt to my clients and probably 2026, they will be further adaptations. But I love that. I adapt to. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, actually. And I actually love editing very deeply. You know, I love. I love moving words around on the page. I love sharing ideas. Like, I actually really love that part of it. Before I was an agent, I was briefly a writing coach. Before that, you know, I was an editor. So I love that part of the process a lot. And some people want that and some people will seek me out for that, and other people just want. They want a different relationship. And that's completely fine.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, question for everyone. What is the one prediction you'd make about where publishing is heading in 2026? Callie, we'll start with you.

[Callie Dietrich]

My prediction for 2026 is that publishers will be looking to substack more. They're definitely paying attention to engagement. So it's not just follower count. They want to make sure that you have a rabid audience ready for your work. But I also think in terms of the books that publishers are looking for, they're definitely focusing on things that maybe are escapism for the reader. They want, like some kind of happier endings. I'm kind of hearing that. That's the vibe. We want things that are uplifting because reality is disturbing as it is.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, awesome. Laura, you next. What's the one prediction you'd make about where publishing is heading in 2026? Or you can do what Kelly did and share too, because Kelly went hogan. You can go road too, if you'd.

[Laura Mazer]

Like to go road. I think we're going to continue and push the envelope on drama. I think that big, noisy, urgent.

[Wendy Sherman]

Wow.

[Laura Mazer]

Knock it off the page. Books are going to be what editors are looking for. It's not new to say that editors will. And editorial teams, publishing teams will sit in the ed board room and bemoan that a project is wonderful, but a little of piece. A little quiet, right? That's the word we hear. A little quiet means we're not sure we can get enough attention for it. But urgent means there's high drama, there's impact, there's energy behind it in a very dramatic way. And I think next year is going to be a year where anything that even instant quiet will be a hard sell.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay. Charisse, what about you? What's your one prediction for 2026?

[Charisse Fisher]

I had time this time to prepare. What is my prediction for 2026? I actually think we're going to be surprised. I think that publishing operates with certain assumptions that are about, like, publishing companies sell what has sold well before and that there are certain tropes and genres that we all know and that we're all comfortable with are going forward. I think 2026 will be the rise of quirky, actually. I think that what we're seeing, especially among people who are under 30 and under 25, they want something precious. They want. They. They're. They're actually very old school. They're very nostalgic leaning. And so I think that means that there's going to be these phenomenons that pop up about very quirky. Like a very quirky book is going to come to the forefront and take everybody by surprise. That's what I predict.

[Bianca Murray]

Ooh, I like that. I hope so, too. Okay, Wendy, how about you? What's the one prediction you'd make about 2026?

[Wendy Sherman]

Well, I'm going to say that doing this a long time, we all know this. I've been in publishing so long, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And in publishing, and this probably is true in other industries, good quality will always rise to the top in terms of the marketplace. And that doesn't mean that every book that you think is good is going to sell well. That's just, like, not possible. But I still think that there may be different categories that end up coming to the surface because of changing times. But good books are good books, and we'll always find a way to the marketplace. So I don't know that that's a prediction so much as a stabilizer. I think that we are in this business for all the right reasons, every one of us. And, you know, I think we always have to trust our. Trust our judgment and our instincts. Because at the end of the day, an agent is first and foremost a reader. Right? What speaks to you? Like. Like when I read something, someone sends me something, and I know right away, and I, you know, like the. I get goosebumps. I'm so excited about it. I can't stop thinking about. It populates my. It populates my mind when I'm falling asleep and when I'm sitting on the couch having coffee in the morning. Like, that's, you know, you're going to sell that book. You don't know what the price is going to be, but, you know, you can get other people excited about it. So whether it's a genre of this or that, it doesn't matter. It's just like the good books.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. The books that make you feel curious and emotionally invested and that make you forget about the world outside. That's why we do what we do. I love that. Okay, so now I will share the last question from the audience, which we will not answer. No one's allowed to answer this question. I am censoring this question. It was sent by a very funny writer from the writing community. I know who you are. She has a great agent. You're a lovely person. But she meant this as a serious question, but I'm going to censor it. Are your meetings now longer since CeCe joined the team? Because she talks a lot, and I'm not letting anyone answer that one. We're not doing that one. We're just gonna ignore and go and smile and then flip our hairs. Okay, so guess what we're gonna do now? We're gonna play Never have I ever. So for context to listeners, we played Never have I ever. And by we, I mean Cali, Laura, and myself just having, like, a, you know, New York lunch in between publishing meetings. We take in some meetings in the morning. We still meetings in the afternoon. And we played Never have I ever. And we posted this. You can find this in the Wendy Sherman Associates Instagram. If you don't follow us, you have to Saliterary. And so I'm so excited because now we're going to get to play the five of us. Now, I have tea, but you guys are welcome to grab wine, coffee, if you need a minute to grab something, go for it. Okay. Okay. So we all have our drinks. So this is how it's going to work. I am going to. For our listeners who are not familiar with the game because it has a confusing name, I am going to say a statement prefaced by the words Never have I ever. And if this statement is true, to you, you drink. Here's what that means. Never have I ever read a book. We would all drink because we've all read books. And if you haven't read a book, no one here, you just wouldn't drink. And because some of you guys are listening and not watching, I will say, who took a sip? So if you hear me say names, those are the people who did take a sip. But I highly recommend watching this one on YouTube. Just saying, you guys, you shouldn't pause this now and go to YouTube. Okay, okay, I'm going to start. So Excited. Never have I ever made a friend from a client. We all drank. Okay. Never have I ever sold a book that several other people told me was unsellable. Okay. The only person who did not drink was Cherise.

[Charisse Fisher]

But you know what? I don't know who. I don't know if anybody ever tells me that.

[Bianca Murray]

So fair. No one would say that to the queen. Okay. Never have I ever cringed at something a client said on social media. Everyone drank, but Laura took her time, which made me think that Laura was going through a very long list of things or that she was embarrassed to drink.

[Emily Summer]

Just saying.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay. Never. Clients, we love you. Never have I ever worried that AI would destroy publishing.

[Charisse Fisher]

I knew Cali was gonna sip the two.

[Bianca Murray]

The two. The two millennials drank. Cali and myself, like.

[Emily Summer]

Like we.

[Bianca Murray]

You know, the younger you are, the more doom and gloom. This is. This is what I think.

[Emily Summer]

Yeah.

[Charisse Fisher]

Don't worry.

[Wendy Sherman]

Don't worry about what you can't change and can't control.

[Bianca Murray]

If that were me, I'd have so much free time. Like, okay. Never have I ever. This is one's controversial, guys. This one's controversial. Never have I ever been tempted. The word is tempted. To poach another agent's. I'm the only one who's drinking, aren't I? I am.

[Laura Mazer]

Good. I would never do it, but.

[Bianca Murray]

I would never do it, but I've been.

[Laura Mazer]

I would never do it, but have I looked a little like. Oh, but maybe that person will decide they don't want to be an agent anymore, and then it would be my turn.

[Bianca Murray]

Temptation. Temptation is defined by a desire in your heart. A strong desire in your heart. I am calling bullshit on everyone. Anyone who's not drinking. I don't believe you.

[Wendy Sherman]

I don't believe I'm drinking.

[Bianca Murray]

I agree.

[Wendy Sherman]

I'm changing my vote.

[Charisse Fisher]

Wendy's drinking.

[Bianca Murray]

Callie, did you drink Peer pressure. No.

[Charisse Fisher]

Kelly didn't drink.

[Bianca Murray]

No. Callie and Shareese are the. Are the Gryffindors of the group. I don't believe you. I just don't. Sorry. Okay. Never have I ever regretted choosing a specific editor when submitting a project. Everyone drank from that one.

[Callie Dietrich]

Yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

I mean, we submit to so many editors, right? Like, it's bound to happen. Never have I ever wanted to represent a writer that was not in my genre. Expertise. I feel like I want to define this. Expertise, meaning something that's on your wish list? I have. Okay. Everyone except Laura, I think drank. Yeah.

[Laura Mazer]

If it's so far afield from what I feel confident in, I don't think that I want that pressure of doing right. By then I know someone else will do a better job. But I do like the idea of being, like, a consigliere. Somebody who's, like, on their board of advisors, in their corner. Friend of the book. I want to be in it somehow, but not as the agent.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, I like friend of the book. Oh, I'm gonna use that.

[Bianca Murray]

Friend of the book. That's a good title. That's a good title for, like, something like a. Yeah. Friend of the book. Okay. Never have I ever reached out to an author to ask them to send me their materials or query. For nonfiction, I have, definitely.

[Callie Dietrich]

For both fiction and nonfiction, I have.

[Charisse Fisher]

Wait, you mean, like, have I ever asked someone who I was interested in to send me stuff?

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah.

[Laura Mazer]

Hi, I'm interested. Would you, like, reach out to an author?

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah.

[Laura Mazer]

Oh, yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

Like, because usually authors reach us.

[Charisse Fisher]

Reach out to, like, an author. Like someone who's written.

[Bianca Murray]

No, sorry, you're right. That was misleading. I think the person meant to someone that you want to be an author. Like, they're not an author. Yeah, sorry, that was on me. I should have edited that one. Okay. Never have I ever found a fiction client through social media. No one is drinking to this one, guys. 00 agents drank for this one. So please stop worrying about your social media platform for fiction. Never have I ever sent a client a text or email that was meant for someone else. Oh, God. I have to drink a lot.

[Emily Summer]

Okay.

[Bianca Murray]

Bianca and Bruno. Bruno is my husband's name. BB I have sent Bianca multiple text messages, like, can you pick up toothpaste?

[Laura Mazer]

Thank God.

[Bianca Murray]

That's all the messages said.

[Charisse Fisher]

I was about to say, that's easy.

[Bianca Murray]

Thank God, because we both use WhatsApp. It's a thing. Anyway, Bianca, Sorry. You're probably listening. And I apologize for all the times I asked you to pick up toothpaste. I was not talking to you. Okay, so now, as we're getting to the end of our episode, each of us is going to share a message to the writing community as we head into 2026. This message can be a reflection. Guidance, advice, a question, anything. Anything that you want to impart to the writing community in the year to come.

[Callie Dietrich]

I'll start. Please follow submission guidelines. You don't want to be rejected on a technicality. And just also remember, it only takes one person to believe in you and champion you. So it doesn't matter how many rejections you face. Just keep going. No one's going to hand it to you. So you have to go out there and Put yourself out there and, yeah, you'll succeed as long as you keep trying.

[Charisse Fisher]

That's so good.

[Bianca Murray]

Laura, what about you?

[Laura Mazer]

To all the writers who listen to this podcast, who take classes, who join groups, who engage in the industry in whatever ways they can from wherever they live, know that you are already head and shoulders above most of the submissions that we see. You're already on the right track. There's so many projects that come to us from people who don't do that, and it shows in their work. It shows that they have not engaged, they have not learned why it's important to know what your word count is. They don't know what the word query is. Because you know all of these details. Because you listen to this, because you follow along, you're going to rise to the top and have some serious consideration. Does that mean you'll find the exact agent that's right for you? I can't predict any of that, but I do know you'll be taken seriously because you're doing this work here right now.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that one. Thank you, Laura. Okay, Charisse, what about you?

[Charisse Fisher]

I mean, it's almost building on what Laura just said. I want to thank the authors who are out there. I want to thank the writers. Right? Because it's so easy to not do the thing. It's so easy to not listen to that inspiration that's been burning inside of you. It's so easy not to. It's just the way that we can skip the gym. Some of us. Some of us don't skip the gym, but just the way that you sort of wake up in the morning, you're like, am I going to go to the gym or not? I won't. Right? Like, nobody cares if you don't go to the gym. Nobody cares, really, if you don't sit at your desk and do the work until the work is done. So I just like to thank writers for showing up for themselves and for whatever inspiration is imparted to them from the universe that they commit to putting. I was going to say on the page, but on the screen, I suppose, for other people, because books really do matter. And what. And you're the beginning of that entire project.

[Laura Mazer]

Love that.

[Bianca Murray]

Wendy, how about you?

[Wendy Sherman]

Yeah, I'm going to just speak up and agree with what Laura and Shareese have said because I have so much respect for people who put the time in, get up early before their kids are up, stay up late after their husband's asleep, and do the hard, hard work of writing, just sitting there and thinking and Putting it on the page. I'll say on the page. It is so hard, and I have so much respect. I'm in awe of the hard work and the dedication and the faith you have to have in yourself. And putting in the time and the effort, that is just not a small thing. So, I mean, I say thank you to those people. And you don't need me to validate whether your book is good. You don't need any agent to validate. That's not what this is about. There's not good or bad. It's just. It's a hard way to choose to make a living or to choose to spend your time. So I just say thank you. I think that it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing.

[Bianca Murray]

Wende, this is a sidebar, but I have to say it. I have many favorite things about you. My number one favorite thing about you is that you've been doing this for so many years. And you sound. You sound just as excited and enthusiastic as I'm sure you sounded on day one. Do you know how rare that is? Do you know how rare it is for someone to have all your experience and keep that, that sense of wonder and appreciation and awe?

[Charisse Fisher]

So true.

[Bianca Murray]

That's. That's amazing. That is amazing. I just want to say thank you. I will. I will share a piece of advice, if I may, with the writing community. I know it's unsolicited advice, but I guess if you guys hear the listen to the podcast, you might want my advice. If you don't, just skip this part. Here's my advice. Make 2026 the year that you make at least one big investment in your writing. That could be anything. It could be like, I'm going to write for X hours a week. I'm going to be protective of that time, carve it out, and really focus. It could be a course. It could be joining a writing group. It could be going to a library and talking to librarians and just being like, hey, can you. Can you tell me, like, what books get checked out the most and what's happening? It could be anything. Okay, but make it the year where you invest in your writing and you invest in your career as an author in ways you can control. I think it's awesome to have. Get an agent, get a book deal, become a bestseller as a goal. I do. I do. But these are not goals that are dependent only on you. Whereas certain things do depend only on you. You know, like, if you make it your goal to write for, I don't know, four Hours, a week, or however long you have, that is something you can control with a lot more probability, one might say. So that's my message to the writing community. And I also want to say that after hearing all these lovely messages, if you guys are interested in knowing a little bit more about what each of us are looking for, you can obviously go to our website, wsherman.com but you can also go to our Instagram, the handle isaliterary. And there is a pinned post with the very top things in our manuscript wish list. Because, and I say this because one of the questions we got from multiple people is, what's at the very top of your wish list? Now, we all have very long wish lists, as we should, but if you want to know what's at the very top, take a look at this pinned post on Instagram. And if you want, leave a little comment and let us know that you were there, because we're going to be so excited to hear from you. Okay, so now the very last question that we ask of all our guests on the show. Share a book that you recommend to our listeners. This is a book that they have, will have the opportunity to read in 2026. It can be a client book, a non client book, anything you want. Okay, we'll start with Wendy this time. Wendy, you go first.

[Wendy Sherman]

I just read a book that I love that was recommended to me that I might not have picked up if it hadn't been recommended. And it's called the Correspondent. I mean, it's, you know, it became a bestseller long after. Not long, but like months after it was published. Because word of mouth, what I love most about that is that word of mouth still works. You don't have to get launched out of the gate as a bestseller. People read your book, they fall in love, they recommend it to other book lovers, and it just, it just like snowballs into a huge success. And to me that's like, that's the beauty of knowing people that read and sharing what you want to read and what you love.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that. Laura, you might remember when we met with Amy Einhorn, she shared that, that book story with us. Do you remember?

[Laura Mazer]

I do. I remember it. I have it right now, Michelle. But I just. It is so good. It is so good. She was not wrong. What a gem. Correspondence, definitely.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay. What about you, Sharice? What about you? What? What's your recommendation?

[Charisse Fisher]

Show and tell.

[Bianca Murray]

Show and tell, yes.

[Charisse Fisher]

Oh, is it going to be backwards? That's annoying. Is it backwards? It is. All right.

[Bianca Murray]

Well, I mean, no, we See it.

[Charisse Fisher]

Yeah. So I. My client published this book, Disappointing Affirmations. It was a nice, lovely bestseller and continues to sell really, really, really well. This is his second book. Sorry in advance for making things awkward. A Disappointing Affirmations collection. And it is such a perfect hostess gift. It's the perfect gift. You're walking into somebody's house for a holiday party, for a New Year's Eve party. This is a great book to show up with because everyone's gonna laugh and have fun on it. And they're doing a huge campaign with him in January for the new year. Same you kind of thing. And it's really funny and I Recommend it for 2026. January 2026.

[Bianca Murray]

Exciting. I definitely have to get that one. I'm a fan. Okay. Laura, what about you?

[Laura Mazer]

My little book tip here I think is going to be that we have such a healthy channel from book to screen, which is wonderful. I love seeing a story told in different ways. If you are planning to see the movie, Hamnet, I highly recommend also reading the book. If you haven't read the book, read it, listen to it, watch it, do it all. Because it's that good. It's just a gorgeous, gorgeous story. And I'm excited to see it on the screen. But I decided that I was going to read it again before I did that. And I'm getting so much out of it. I think it's going to make the movie even more glorious. I love that one.

[Bianca Murray]

What about you, Callie?

[Callie Dietrich]

Have to do a plug for Wendy and my clients, of course, Blair Horton. Her book comes out tomorrow, December 30th. So when this airs the next day, it's a mocktail cookbook. The recipes are delicious, but it also offers different health benefits in each recipe. And all the ingredients are seasonal and the photography is stunning. And you just want to, you know, it's a great way to start the new year. New you and dry January. So please go out and get that one tomorrow.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay. I love that. Okay. I will plug in a book as well as we wrap this up. And I'm going to be honest here. I'm being sneaky. I'm being sneaky because there is someone, a very special someone who has affected all our lives who does not plug in her own books. She never talks about her own books. Certainly not in an encouraging you to buy her books sort of way. Whenever I try to do it because she's always around me. She doesn't let me. She's not here today. And so I'm gonna go rogue and say Bye. Bianca's latest novel, it's called the Most Puzzling Murder. It is so much fun. Think glass onion meets succession. Like, you're gonna want to know everything about this locked room murder with this very quirky, fun protagonist called Destiny, who's, like, so brilliant and at the same time, like, she keeps missing all these things and you want to, like, shake her and at the same time hug her. And the book is just the best. So if you've already read A Most Puzzling Murder by Bianca Marais, I highly recommend checking out the Witches of Moonshine Manor.

[Charisse Fisher]

Hum.

[Bianca Murray]

If you don't know the words. Or, I mean, and I should say, if you want to make God laugh. So essentially all of Bianca's books. She's going to be so mad at me when she sees this because she's always telling me the podcast is not about promoting my books. I do not care. B. You can be mad at me and I will continue texting you to pick up toothpaste. So get mad at me. Watch me not care. Okay, thank you everyone for joining us. It's been so much.

[Charisse Fisher]

It's been so much fun.

[Laura Mazer]

Thank you, Cece.

[Emily Summer]

Hello, everybody. I am Emily Summer. I'm here for my monthly comps segment. So thank you for listening. Thank you for sending in your comp requests. And I'm here without Bianca, so we'll see if I can do this on my own. I will confess that I just did the entire recording without it adequately recording. I did not have the right screen on. I was trying to read my notes and did not realize that it had not recorded. So we're gonna try it again. That's what happens when I'm on my own. And we'll get started. We have nine today, so thank you all for sending them in, and thanks for being here now.

[Laura Mazer]

Hello, Emily.

[Charisse Fisher]

Thank you for helping me find appropriate comps for my YA speculative dystopian novel with crossover appeal and an important romantic subplot. So far, the strongest comp I've considered is Legend by Mary Lou because of the similar world building and dual POV structure, but I'm worried it's too old to use. The story is set 100 years in the future, where the world is united under a single nation ruled by a powerful family seen as humanity's saviors. The novel follows two estranged cousins after one loses her father in a house fire. She discovers he stole something from dangerous people, and a message from him urges her to find her aunt. This sends her straight to her cousin, who struggles with severe anxiety and a history of mental health challenges, and together they uncover buried family secrets while being hunted by soldiers. The story explores themes of revenge, sacrifice, family, confronting anxiety, and trust. Thank you so much.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, our first I'm going very slowly now so I don't do the same thing that I did earlier, talk to myself for half an hour and then realize it didn't do it. So when I hear someone mention Legend by Marie Lu and a YA dystopian, as I have done in the past, I mention Scythe by Neal Shusterman. It is probably light legend, too big and too old, but he does Dystopian so well that that always comes to mind and I always want to mention it and recommend it. But in thinking of some more recent novels that might also fit the bill, I thought about Chloe Gong's cold wire. So that is a YA dystopian that came out this year in 2025 and did did very well for us. We did an event for Chloe at East City Bookshop and people were hyped for it. People loved it. So I would take a look at Coldwire and I have recommended Tracy Dion's Legend Born series before her newest Oathbound, the third in the trilogy, came out this year and I think that might also work. It's more fantasy than dystopian, but it has a little bit of romance, I believe, and I think the audience is probably right. And I know based on the enthusiasm in our staff that it's wonderful and has a lot of fans and has sold a lot of copies.

[Bianca Murray]

Hi, I'm looking for comms for my ya Rom com. Willow Hawkins Lessons in Bearding 15 Year Old Willow agrees to serve as her best friend Theo's beard for a few months, desperate to stop the bullying he's faced for his peers, correct assumptions about him being gay. After Theo decides to come outside to his sister Avery, the three of them form an unlikely trio. As Willow's friendship with Avery deepens, she eventually realizes she has romantic feelings for her and must decide what she is willing to give up in order to protect her best friend comps. I was thinking were I kiss Chera Wheeler for the humor and the theme of having a complicated relationship with the place you call home or the show Heartstopper for the wholesome energy and heartwarming queer romance with a heavy focus on beautiful friendships. But I think heartstopper and Casey McQuiston are too big to come to. My story also includes theater kid and athlete camaraderie. Willow and Theo are in theater and Avery's their school's track and cross country star and a subplot of saving their school's theater program from budget cuts. Thank you for this incredible podcast.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, this one sounds so sweet. I love the synopsis. I do think that Heartstopper is probably too big at this point in time, but I think that I Kiss Chara Wheeler might be good. It's not as big as Red, White and Royal Blue. I think that as a YA author, Casey McQuiston is not as huge as she is in the adult space. So I think that one could be a good one to mention. And I would also mention David Levithan's Will Grayson. Will Grayson. It's too big because it was co written with John Green, so we all know John Green.

[Charisse Fisher]

Big, big big.

[Emily Summer]

And it's too old. So Will Grayson Will Grayson is probably not the right one to mention in your query letter, but it's excellent and it is definitely worth reading anyway. It has that camaraderie in different kids in different high school cliques. It has the theater kid vibes to the hilt. Just absolutely a great mix of sweet teen friendship and romance and it's wonderful. But David Levithan is pretty prolific so he's he has continued writing. He's written a lot since then. He had a book this year that came out this year that was an adult book. I would not be surprised if one of his more recent books could hit the right notes of sweet teen friendship, queer romance, Save the High School, or some combination of all those things. Another book that I think is a very good fit is from East City Bookshop. Favorite are Eric Thomas. He is a playwright and an essayist and he wrote a great YA novel called Kings of Be. More and I think that one could be perfect. It's got a very delightful teen rom com heart. It's a friendship stories, it's got queer characters, they've got a project to focus on. It's wonderful. So take a look at Kings of Be.

[Bianca Murray]

More hi, my name is Tatiana and I appreciate your help with comp titles for my beauty book in the Place between, an upmarket speculative novel for readers who love the Midnight Library and twice it follows Mira, a 30 year old ex founder who sold her startup only.

[Charisse Fisher]

To find herself professionally and personally stalled.

[Bianca Murray]

When she slips into a timeless realm called the Place Between. She's offered three wishes which she can.

[Charisse Fisher]

Test before committing with the help of.

[Bianca Murray]

A dry witted advisor. She steps into simulations that explore self.

[Charisse Fisher]

Optimization and world fate saving fixes only.

[Wendy Sherman]

To realize that every perfect solution comes with a cost.

[Bianca Murray]

After she makes her wishes, Myr and the advisor uncover a deeper crisis.

[Charisse Fisher]

The place between is unraveling under the.

[Bianca Murray]

Weight of dangerous buried wishes and the forgotten origin of the realm itself. The characters are forced to confront not just what broke the system, but what broke them.

[Charisse Fisher]

Mira must choose between clinging to the.

[Wendy Sherman]

Illusion of control or rewriting the rules.

[Charisse Fisher]

Entirely before the place between consumes everyone.

[Bianca Murray]

Who ever sought refuge inside of it.

[Charisse Fisher]

Thank you.

[Emily Summer]

Hi Tatiana, thank you so much for sending in your comp request. So I'm trying to think, whenever anybody mentions Midnight Library, I'm trying to think of other fiction that contains elements of magical realism and is speculative but isn't straight up genre fantasy. And that can be a hard mix to find. So one author that I think does it really well is Alex Harrow. She definitely skews more fantasy than regular fiction, but maybe the 10,000 doors of January or the books of Adrian Young like Spells for forgetting. And I also think that it's worth mentioning the Ministry of Time by Culian Bradley, which came out last year. In terms of upmarket speculative fiction that really broke out and, and asks very interesting questions. You can't do any better than the Ministry of Time. I also like this one for your comp because it feels very modern and fresh. So it's actually futuristic, but it has more like tech, startup, modern day main character vibes than the sort of dreamy southern gothic feel of the others that I mentioned. Those feel a little, I don't know, a little. A little dreamy or gauzier. And the Ministry of Time is a little more grounded and sort of modern feeling. So that's my suggestion.

[Bianca Murray]

It's Linda Leffler. My novel working title, the Lillian Effect is a love story between two workaholic engineers. My heroine Annie, struggled to maintain a big career and meet domestic expectations as a wife and mother throughout the book. In short chapters, Annie reckons with the legacy of a historical figure engineering trailblazer of a century ago, Lillian Gilbreth at the forefront of industrial efficiency while parenting a dozen children. There's resonance with Noel Hancock's memoir My Year with Eleanor, and a little overlap with Ali Hazelwood's Love on the Brain, where the scientist character references Marie Curie. But that's more superficial than I'm doing.

[Wendy Sherman]

Do you have any comps for me?

[Callie Dietrich]

Thanks so much.

[Bianca Murray]

I always really enjoy listening to this segment. Cheers.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, for the Lillian Effect, I would agree that Ali Hazelwood doesn't feel right for this project based on what you have said. I thought immediately of Julie and Julia by Julie Powell. Her memoir Digging into Julia Child's life. But once a memoir has been made into a movie with Meryl Streep, it's too big and it's too old. So forget about Julie and Julia. Although that did come to mind. So hopefully I'm on the right track. I also think it's worth considering the novels of Marie Benedict. So hers are mostly straightforward historical fiction about a real person, sort of the imagined historical fiction about their life. But I think if you're doing a deep dive into Lillian Gilbreth and she is an important character and you do go into her life in the story, that Marie Benedict's books might illustrate that aspect of your novel. Something to consider. I also thought of Susan Rieger's novel from last year which came out from Dial Press called Like Mother, Like Mother. It is an excellent novel about the struggle between having a big career and being a significant professional figure and balancing your family life. A great book club book. I'm waiting for it to become a prestige HBO drama. I think it's going to. I don't know if it's on hbo, but I do think it's been optioned for television. And I'll also mention Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead, one of my favorites of not just the last five or ten years, but maybe ever. And I mentioned that one because it's a split between historical and contemporary. So in that book, the historical piece, the historical figure is is fictional. But I still think it might work. The structure might work because in that you have a contemporary character who is doing research on and figuring out how this historical figure can resonate in her modern day life. Plus, it is a masterpiece, so you can't go wrong with masterpiece.

[Wendy Sherman]

Hi Emily, I'd like comps for Pearl, my historical novel set in upstate New York in 1934, about a woman trying to hold on to what's hers. When Pearl inherits farmland, she's suddenly surrounded.

[Charisse Fisher]

By men who want her land.

[Wendy Sherman]

The friend she quietly loves proposes, but she's not sure if it's from love or greed. When a hobo, actually an escaped convict, offers to fix her roof in exchange for shelter, tensions mount until a confrontation ends with Pearl shooting the hobo. She conceals the killing, which haunts her until years later when a stranger stranger threatens to expose her, forcing her to choose between protecting herself and her freedom and finding atonement. A Piece of the World by Christina Baker Klein is a match for setting, but it is old and it's quiet. My vibe is Humphrey Bogart in the Petrified Forest, not Andrew WYETH. And I'm hoping for a comp for Long term guilt and atonement. Thanks for any suggestions. Sue.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, For Pearl, I thought immediately of a book that I have certainly mentioned before. Do I sound like a broken record? I feel like I have favorites or and I do have favorites, but I read like 140 books a year, so I should have more than, you know, the same dozen, but the same things come up again and again because they're just that good. And one is the Frozen river by Ariel Lawhan. It is historical fiction at its finest, so it's set a couple of centuries before Pearl is. But the midwife protagonist in that book is a badass, which it sounds like Pearl is too. So I mentioned the Frozen river because it's just so good and I think the fierceness of the character might work. It's also a great read. It's especially great this time of year. You'll want to curl up in front of a fire. It's just a perfect winter read. In terms of a book about long term guilt and atonement, I will mention a book that's coming out early next year Year A Far Flung Life by ML Stedman. So her previous book, the Light Between Oceans was huge. That was maybe a dozen years ago. That one might also work, except that it's too old and too big. But ML Steadman is finally back. Readers are going to rejoice. I loved this book and it is the best book about grief and secrets and whether or not we should tell them. Should secrets always come to light? Should we always atone, or should we let things lie? It's wonderful. So look for a far flung life in the spring and another one that I don't know is just. I keep coming back to it when I'm thinking of this one. It's Go as a River by Shelley Reed. I often mention it as a comp to where the Crawdads Sing, and I don't know, it just feels like it might work here in terms of suspenseful fiction, a real sense of place, a strong female main character, all that good stuff. I don't know, something's just telling me that maybe Go as a River might work as well.

[Bianca Murray]

Hi Emily, thanks so much for doing this. I'm looking for comps for my upmarket novel. Told over one week in the summer of 2015, the novel follows a cast of characters connected to one Greek American family, including two sisters with a fragile relationship. The younger sister is a celebrated food journalist who's failing to finish chapters about her complicated childhood for her memoir that's due in a week. The older sister, who owns a cafe in the same building as their late.

[Emily Summer]

Dad'S restaurant, acting on their mother's last.

[Bianca Murray]

Wishes, invites the younger sister to stay while she lies about a trip she's taking and goes to Greece to visit family where she's told a hidden version of their parents immigration story.

[Emily Summer]

Meanwhile, the younger sister spends the week.

[Bianca Murray]

Unknowingly gathering missing pieces to the story her older sister is hearing. I've currently comped Blue Sisters for themes of complicated sibling relationships in the wake of grief and multi point of view.

[Emily Summer]

Storytelling and murder, which feels a little bit different.

[Bianca Murray]

Too big for themes of family baggage, queerness and immigration. Food contributes a lot to the atmosphere as well as a misunderstood learning disability, so anything around that would be appreciated.

[Emily Summer]

Okay for number six, yes to Blue Sisters, absolutely. I love it when you all mention a book that I have already started thinking of as I'm listening to the voicemail. So I think that that's a perfect one for a sister story of this sort. And I'm going to again mention a book that is coming out early next year. I know it's not fair, it's sort of a tease to mention these forthcoming books, but go ahead and reserve these from the library now or pre order them from your local indie bookstore because you'll want to read them when they come out. And I do think that anything that I mention I think is going to sell well enough that it will be an eventual very good comp. So the next one I'm going to mention is Leave youe Mess at Home by Tolani Akinola. It's coming from Pamela Dorman Books in April, I believe it is a marvelous sibling story. It's three Sisters and a brother and it's from one of my favorite editors, Seema Mahanian. She also edited two previous recent favorites of mine, what Happened to Ruthie Ramirez and the Bombshell, which I think I've probably mentioned both of those in the past. But in terms of a good sibling story, multi POV sisters, grief and a lot of good food Mentions look out for Leave youe Mess at Home. Hi, I'm looking for comps for my.

[Bianca Murray]

Open door dual POV high heat contemporary romance set in Chicago.

[Emily Summer]

When Scarlett was younger, the people who.

[Bianca Murray]

Were supposed to take care of her left her to fend for herself.

[Emily Summer]

Now in her 40s, she's become very.

[Bianca Murray]

Successful professionally by sticking to her rule.

[Emily Summer]

Of always doing everything herself.

[Bianca Murray]

When a chance meeting with a local.

[Emily Summer]

Musician whose band is taking off has.

[Bianca Murray]

Her reconsidering her priorities. She decides she must push him away at all costs.

[Emily Summer]

He falls hard and fast though, and.

[Bianca Murray]

Wants nothing more than to pierce through that tough exterior.

[Emily Summer]

A back and forth results in a deal, a white hot just for now affair before his band leaves on tour in six days. But once they are together, neither of them can deny the connection they share.

[Bianca Murray]

Will she keep herself protected or allow him in, potentially risking everything?

[Emily Summer]

I thought of Ali Hazelwood's not in Love and list Tom Ford's play along for their guarded, career driven heroines.

[Charisse Fisher]

But I'd like something that signals the.

[Emily Summer]

Just for now trope. I thought of It Happened One Summer.

[Bianca Murray]

By Tessa Bailey, but I wondered if.

[Emily Summer]

That was too big and too old.

[Bianca Murray]

Thank you so much.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, I am not the romance expert. I work with a romance expert. So at East City Bookshop our romance expert is my colleague Destiny Hodge. You should follow her on Instagram at your romance Destiny and she spells Destiny with two E's at the end instead of a Y. So follow Destiny for all things romance. But I think It Happened One Summer by Tessa Bailey Sounds right. That sounds good to me, even though again, I'm not the romance expert. I also thought immediately of the idea of you by Robin Lee, and that is for a couple of reasons. One, because that's one of my favorite romances ever. I don't need a happily ever after. So because you know I like to cry. So I'm not a huge romance reader. But I loved the idea of you, as did many others. So I thought of it because I love it so much. And also because in that book we have an older main character. So we have a 40ish main character entering into what should be a very temporary situationship. Now the big hook of the idea of you that has been discussed in the movie and when people are talking about the book is the age gap. In my head I aged the character up and just told myself okay, he's 28 so that I could still enjoy the book. But I think despite even if there's not an age gap, I think it works for the other similarities between your work in progress. Robin Lee also has a new one coming in 2026. I don't know if it would work, but look out for it. It's probably going to be great even if it doesn't have anything to do with your current work in progress. And I also have heard that Jill Chalvis that her books feature some older main characters. And I love Jasmine Guillory and her book Royal Holiday. I think is a good one to mention too. So in that one, a mom goes on vacation with her daughter and is quite surprised to find herself in the middle of a vacation fling. So I think all of those might have that sort of temporary like should be very temporary and a main character that's not 20. So I like, I like them for that.

[Bianca Murray]

Hi Emily, I'm looking for comps for my literary debut. Laura Jacobs is an unhappy substitute teacher living in rural New Hampshire. This wasn't always the case. She used to be a vibrant executive.

[Laura Mazer]

Traveling the world, being wind and dined with the world's financial elite.

[Bianca Murray]

But abruptly, at 45, she left that life, trading it in for one as close to teaching, as close to nature, and as close to at risk children.

[Laura Mazer]

As she could find.

[Bianca Murray]

With a life full of regrets for.

[Laura Mazer]

Missing out on motherhood, Laura meets Sawyer, a young farm girl who steals her heart and her car when Sawyer goes missing.

[Bianca Murray]

Not showing up at school for three.

[Emily Summer]

Days in a row, Laura breaks all.

[Laura Mazer]

The rules of the school where she works, determined to find the problematic yet tender girl. My cop right now is old and maybe too Big. Little Fires Everywhere.

[Wendy Sherman]

Also maybe the Wedding People.

[Bianca Murray]

Thank you.

[Emily Summer]

Hi. Thank you for writing in about your literary debut. I agree that Little Fires Everywhere is probably too big and too old. And I'm not sure that I would do the Wedding People unless the tone is right because I think Alison Esbach is so good at writing about very, very, very sad things, but also making it funny. So if you, if that is the tone that you're striking, then go for it. Especially if, if your character Lara is very unhappy, as our main character is in the Wedding People. I love that book. But this sort of scrappy sounding young person and the unexpected friendship remind me most of a book that I've definitely suggested here before because I adore it. And it's Alison Larkin's the People We Keep. It is, I think, the best found family book I've read in the last few years. And in that one, the main character is more of the Sawyer esque character. It's she starts as the teen who flees, but you get to see this marvelous cast of supporting characters, the older people who support her, the peers that she finds. But it's really about how these unexpected bonds and unexpected people can influence our lives. I also think a good one to mention might be Mia McKenzie's book Sky Falling. She also had a book this year called these Heathens. Not Right for this comp. But it was a great book. I really enjoyed it. But in, in the Case of sky falling. Sky also enters into a sort of surprise relationship with a challenging but tender teenager who is her donor daughter. Sky was an egg donor and the result of her egg donation shows up on on her doorstep one day after her mother who raised her has died. But it's just super. I loved that book. I feel like the COVID makes it look like a middle grade book, but it is not. It is an adult book and it's great.

[Bianca Murray]

Hello brilliant people of Tis Not Yaw. My name is Emily Ernest and I'm seeking additional comps for my adult horror romance novel. It combines the supernatural elements and page turning tension of Rachel Harrison's so Thirsty, the irresistible romance and witty humor of Ali Hazelwood's Hot for Slayer and the brutally authentic commentary on America's healthcare system seen on HBO's the Pit. My one line hook is as when vampire physicians integrate into a Pittsburgh hospital as a means to address post pandemic staffing shortages, an oncology nurse must mentor.

[Emily Summer]

A brooding vampire while solving the murder.

[Bianca Murray]

Of her sister at the hands of the undead.

[Emily Summer]

I do feel as though Hot for.

[Bianca Murray]

Slayer may be turning off agents because of the astronomic popularity of Hazelwood's other works. I'm struggling to find comps that have heavy threads of romance but aren't so light. I considered Fang Fiction by Kate Stamen London and Loving a Vampire's Total Chaos by Ara Hayes, but while entertaining, they do not match the darker tone and humor of my work. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Emily Summer]

Okay, we're ending today with a fellow Emily. Hello, fellow Emily. All right, I said I was not a romance expert, but my weakest literary spot is probably vampires. However, because we're looking for something with sort of a heavier tone, maybe consider the God of Endings by Jacqueline Holland. That is a vampire story, a story about immortality. And that has some heavier notes and more serious considerations than like a fang fiction. Although we love Kate's Damon London in my store, but I don't know, it skews sort of literary and historical fiction, so that might not be right. But regardless, I think that Rachel Harrison's so Thirsty meets the Pit. I think that is fantastic. Like that puts me there. I love the Pit. So I'm already, I'm in it. And you know, I'm not an agent, I'm not the expert there, but I wholeheartedly support that comp. I think, I think you can't do any better than that. Okay, thank you all for listening. I appear to have accurately recorded myself this time as opposed to last time. I did it faster this time. Without meaning to, thank you all for sending in your comp requests. Thanks for listening. Now. Thank you to Bianca for letting me record and I hope to see all of you or hear from all of you next year in 2026. Happy holidays.

[Bianca Murray]

And that's it for today's episode. I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it. Remember, it just takes one. Yes.

[Charisse Fisher]

Hi there.

[Bianca Murray]

We've got a lot we're really excited to tell you about, but I'm going to make this real quick so you can get to the episode. The Deep Dive is coming up at the end of January. The lineup of speakers is incredible and the range of topics is mind blowing. You do not want to miss out on the last Deep Dive ever. Then the beta reader matchup is open once again, with the matchups going out early in February. Sign up to kick your creative year.

[Charisse Fisher]

Off with a bang.

[Bianca Murray]

Lastly, there's an amazing writer's workbook available which will make the perfect gift for you or the writer in your life. Head to our website the Shit About Writing to find out more.