Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: For The Love of Writing
Date: October 23, 2025
Host(s): Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Guest: Hannah Mary McKinnon (Bestselling author of A Killer Motive)

Episode Overview

This episode is a candid, craft-focused conversation with returning guest Hannah Mary McKinnon. The discussion centers on character development—specifically, McKinnon's detailed outlining process and the strategies she employs to create authentic, layered protagonists and antagonists in her writing. The episode also offers inspiration for emerging writers, unpacking both the joys and the unpredictable realities of the publishing journey.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Deep Characterization Through a Questionnaire

(06:12–09:00)

• Hannah shares her practice of "interviewing" her main characters via a three-page questionnaire, covering everything from appearance to deeply personal beliefs and hypothetical decisions.
  • The questionnaire includes standard traits (height, looks), plus deeply revealing queries: “Do they believe in ghosts?”, “How would they spend $100,000?”, “What’s their relationship with their parents or mentors?”, “Where are they at the beginning and end—physically and emotionally?”
  • Quote:

    “Some of those questions would be, for example, do they believe in ghosts? I don't write paranormal stuff…but it informs me about the kind of character that they are." (06:44, Hannah)

  • Even the smallest details (like the contents of a character’s fridge) reveal volumes about their psychology and lifestyle.
• The process is not about feeding all the answers into the book but about creating a fully realized, complex person whose motives and behaviors feel grounded.

2. Flexibility in Outlining

(12:15–14:12)

• While her outlining is robust, Hannah emphasizes she is not “married to it”—her knowledge of the character or plot can (and does) change as she writes.
  • She fills out the questionnaire completely but will adjust or ignore details that don’t serve the story as it develops.
  • Quote:

    “I find it’s a great way to get to know the characters. And it also helps procrastinate, honestly, before I start having to fill 300 blank pages.” (13:06, Hannah)

• The hosts add that this “iceberg principle” means a writer should know far more about their characters than the reader ever sees.

3. Writing Authentic Antagonists

(14:12–16:44)

• Hannah discusses the special challenge of writing believable antagonists, maintaining that writers must know them with as much depth as protagonists, even if not all details surface in the book.
  • She sometimes writes the antagonist’s arc entirely separately to track their motivations and actions against the protagonist’s journey.
  • Quotes:

    “The antagonist is never the antagonist in their own minds. They're always the hero of their own story.” (15:56, Carly)
    “You'll see the reaction of the protagonist. So you have to know them well…so I find it so…tricky because…I can't reveal both of them.” (14:53, Hannah)

4. How Occupation Shapes Character

(16:46–18:45)

• The origin of Stella’s role as a podcast host: Originally, her protagonist had a business making fictional cold case games, but Hannah’s agent suggested podcasting instead for clearer storytelling.
  • Quote:

    “So it was a really quick switch…just bouncing the idea around…I’m really glad that she suggested that and I hadn’t already written, goodness knows how much.” (17:47, Hannah)

5. The Collaborative Nature of Writing

(22:24–24:20)

• The hosts and Hannah reflect on effective collaboration—be it with agents, editors, or beta readers. Writers are urged to seek feedback that offers objectivity and creativity, not just from professionals but also from peers.
  • Quote:

    “You don’t need an agent to do this, but if you are looking for an agent and it’s important for you to have an agent who you can collaborate with…remember to make sure that’s a discussion you have.” (24:20, Carly)

6. The Evolution of Writing Challenges

(25:11–31:20)

• Hannah describes how her challenges have shifted from self-doubt (“Can I do this?”) to uncertainty about each individual book’s concept or subject matter.
• The hosts and guest openly address the lack of control over publishing success, noting that even established writers struggle with promotion and the unpredictability of book launches.
  • Quotes:

    “The biggest challenge for me...is honestly the lack of control over my career. In my former career, the harder I worked, the bigger the rewards…When it comes to publishing…that is completely out of my control.” (25:53, Hannah)
    “Everything in my life up until now has been: the amount of effort I’ve put in equals what I get out of it…And writing—certainly there’s that satisfaction. But it’s still so up in the air.” (28:28, Carly)

• Literary citizenship and community are highlighted as ways to mitigate the isolation and randomness of publishing.

7. Holding on to the Love of Writing

(31:51–33:20)

• Despite all the industry uncertainties, Hannah and the hosts return to why they write: for the pure love of story, creativity, and the sanctuary it offers.
  • Quotes:

    “That is my happy space. I love going into my books…But I get very, very nervous…it’s on public. So this year, for the first time, I said to my husband, I don’t want to be at home for pub day. Can you take the day off and we’ll just go out?” (30:15, Hannah)
    “But what you do know is that this is the place that is your sanctuary…it’s the place you’ve come to, to play, to engage, to escape…And never, never, never lose the love of the writing.” (31:51, Carly)

• Both reiterate the importance of returning to the craft itself amid industry disappointments and external pressures.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On characterization:

  “The vast majority of this stuff I imagine about the characters doesn’t make it into the book, but it just makes them real as I’m writing them.”
  (11:05, Hannah)

• On the unpredictability of publishing:

  “You just never know what’s going to hit. And I find that—as a control freak, this is going to come across as—but the not knowing and not really being able to influence that in any particular way…is actually pretty hard.”
  (26:11, Hannah)

• On the importance of community:

  “This is why I keep saying why you need beta readers and writing friends…Because again, it’s just someone external who’s not in your head, who can just be more objective.”
  (24:20, Carly)

Key Timestamps

• 06:12 — Hannah’s detailed character questionnaire process
• 09:22 — Sharing and evolving the questionnaire for other writers
• 12:15 — Flexibility with outlines and using them as a starting point
• 14:12 — The iceberg principle and writing antagonists
• 16:46 — How Stella’s occupation changed the story foundation
• 22:24 — The collaborative agent-author process
• 25:11 — Shifting challenges after 11 published novels
• 29:47 — The influence of timing and zeitgeist on book success
• 31:51 — The importance of loving writing above all else

Final Thoughts

This episode is both practical and heartfelt, making it valuable for writers at all stages. Hannah Mary McKinnon’s insights on character-building, adaptability, and the enduring love for the craft offer both actionable tools (like the character questionnaire) and emotional sustenance for surviving the unpredictable path of publishing. The camaraderie among the hosts and guest illustrates the importance of literary community—and serves as a reminder to keep writing, connect with others, and focus on what matters most: the writing itself.