Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing — January Bonus Episode

Release Date: January 26, 2026
Hosts: Bianca Marais (B), Carly Watters (C), CeCe Lyra (A)
Featured Guests: Liz Fenton & Lisa Steinke (bestselling co-authors)
Special Guest (Comps Segment): Emily Summer, East City Bookshop (D)

Episode Overview

This January bonus episode dives deep into the realities of publishing, the creative process, and the business of writing. The main interview features bestselling co-authors Liz Fenton and Lisa Steinke discussing their latest novel The Naysayers, their publishing journey, and the intricacies of writing in partnership. The second half of the episode is the “Comps Segment,” where independent bookseller Emily Summer returns to help listeners find comparable titles for their works-in-progress.

Main Interview: Liz Fenton & Lisa Steinke on The Naysayers and Publishing Realities

1. The Publishing Rollercoaster: Myth vs. Reality

• “So many authors believe once they have the agent, once they publish their debut, they have arrived and they have it made. And they don't know that even after you've arrived, there is a bouncer in publishing who will keep kicking you out of the party and you have to keep, like, finding your way back in.”
  — Bianca (03:38)

• Liz & Lisa open up about how success in publishing is fleeting, emphasizing that past achievements do not guarantee future wins:

  • “Your past success in publishing does not ensure your future success, or I think in other careers, if you have past success, it does give you a professional equity that you, that lasts much longer, I think, in publishing, man. And it's so subjective.” — Liz (04:05)
  • Reflecting on their own career highs and lows, they reiterate the importance of adaptability and humility:
    “Publishing goes from you feel like you're the shit to you just feel shit.” — Bianca (06:03), with laughter from all.

• The emotional impact of publishing’s ups and downs:

  • “I don't want to say smug because it's such a negative word, but I remember thinking, we worked hard. We've done this, and the book did really well.” — Liz (06:17)
  • “It was nice to feel that way. But you do sort of… you don't want to be negative… but you also don't want to pretend it's not happening. So it's that really fine tightrope walk.” — Lisa (05:37)

2. Evolving Relationships with Agents

• The duo discusses the evolving nature of author-agent relationships, likening it to a marriage:

  • “It can be two really good people, and maybe at the beginning of the marriage, things were great and, you know, they're having problems and it's just time to move on. So we're on, actually our third agent.” — Liz (08:44)

• How changing creative directions (genre pivots, passion projects) can strain professional relationships:

  • “We're not always necessarily writing the same kind of book. We just want to write the book that matters to us in that moment.” — Lisa (10:19)

• The risks of shifting genres:
  Multiple hosts and guests agree that being "unpredictable" creatively may hurt career momentum but is often worth it for personal fulfillment.

3. On Passion Projects and Genre Fluidity

• Bianca and the guests reflect on how passion sustains creative effort:
  “I'm kind of at the point in my career… I only want to write books that if it doesn't sell, that I don't feel like I wasted my time writing it.” — Liz (11:02)

• The downside: readers and industry professionals may expect consistency:

  • “There are readers that want to know what they're expecting from you… and that's okay. That's just a certain kind of reader. And then there are readers that will kind of move with us.” — Lisa (12:28)

• The harsh business reality of backlist sales:

  • “I'm becoming so disillusioned with Backlist… my publisher, my first publisher has stopped printing my first two books.” — Bianca (13:18)
  • Lack of communication from publishers is highlighted as a persistent frustration for authors (14:27).

4. Origin & Crafting of The Naysayers

The Spark Behind the Book

• The idea originated from personal experience: a negative conference encounter led to honest conversations about how each co-author processes thoughts:

  • “I went to bed that night thinking, where the fuck do her thoughts come from?” — Liz (17:04)

• Liz woke up with the premise for The Naysayers almost fully formed after this exchange.

Building the World: Satire, Social Issues & Craft

• The book's satirical premise: "What if your inner critic is real, with their own agenda?"

• "Naysay Land" represents negativity; "The Island" represents toxic positivity—highlighting society’s current penchant for extremes.

  • “We can't live in extremes, right? You can't be overly negative, but you can't just put your head in the sand.” — Liz (19:18)
  • “The book really, at the end of the day, is about, like, how do you learn to live in the in between?” — Liz (20:19)

• The world-building process involved unique challenges:

  • The first draft was bloated with four POVs and meandering world logic; strong editorial feedback trimmed the story down, sharpened the focus, and improved the world-building.
  • “If we want to keep this, we have to earn it. Like, we have to do a better job.” — Liz (23:43)

• Memorable moments include the negative job interview and the training sequences in the novel, which expertly introduce the rules of the satirical world.

Collaboration, Feedback, and Creative Authority

• The co-writers dissect their process for handling feedback, disagreements, and external suggestions:

  • “It doesn't mean you have to take the note… but you owe it to yourself as a writer and to your editor and publisher agent to see it through first before rejecting it.” — Liz (31:15)

• Lisa’s approach: systematically outlines arguments for and against major revision suggestions to have informed conversations.

• The importance of knowing when to seek feedback:

  • “Knowing when to seek feedback, whether it's from Beta readers or agents, is so important.” — Bianca (32:23)

• On writing partnerships: veto power lies with the writer most passionate about a particular element (34:49).

Notable Quotes & Fun Moments

• "Publishing goes from you feel like you're the shit to you just feel shit." — Bianca (06:03)
• “We are the creators, but we actually have like the least amount of control.” — Liz (13:38)
• “We're both in the project, so it's not going to be. Actually, I think you should just say just not write that. It's never. Because we are on the same.” — Lisa (34:01)
• “The person who wrote it has veto power.” — Liz (34:49)
• “Just get her to edit what you said.” — Bianca (34:57)

Books with Hooks: Comp Title Segment

(with Emily Summer of East City Bookshop)

Each segment addresses a listener-submitted project, with Emily and Bianca providing contemporary comp titles and strategic advice. Below are the key details and recommendations.

[36:21] - Segment Intro

Bianca welcomes Emily Summer and laments her fatigue after four back-to-back interviews, setting a jovial and candid tone.

1. Women's Fiction: Surrogacy, Family, and Resilience ([36:57])

Query: Upmarket women's fiction about a woman rebuilding her life post-divorce, becoming a surrogate.

Comps:

• Family Law by Jen Phillips (not surrogacy, but explores family)
• Jodi Picoult (topical, emotional; “too big” but tonally apt)
• Heather Gudenkopf (similar audience)
• Jacqueline Mitchard (potentially dated)
• Bug Hollow by Michelle Huneven
• Buckeye by Patrick Ryan
• Same as It Ever Was by Claire Lombardo
• Books by Ann Napolitano

“All of those authors… might hit the same notes for readers.” — Emily (40:27)

2. Historical Fantasy: 59 AD, The Isle of Man ([40:47])

Query: YA historic fantasy, action, and romance, akin to Outlander.

Comps:

• Wayward by Amelia Hart
• A Land So Wide by Erin A. Craig
• Forthcoming: The Lost Book of Lancelot by John Glenn

“It’s got everything. There are knights, there are battles, there is a beautiful romance. The setting is so vivid and rich.” — Emily (42:45)

3. YA Robin Hood Retelling ([43:16])

Comps:

• Fable by Adrienne Young (series keeps it current)
• Travelers Along the Way by Amina Mae Safi

4. Contemporary Fantasy: Half-Elf Activist Found Family ([44:50])

Comps:

• Wayward by Amelia Hart
• Blood Over Bright Haven by Emma Wang
• Sword Heart by T. Kingfisher
• D&D: Honor Among Thieves (movie)
• Also consider: Naomi Novik, Rachel Gillig (author blurbs)

5. Speculative Romance: Time-bending Journal ([46:47])

Query: Career woman discovers journal entries predicting her unraveling.

Comps:

• Rebecca Searle (In Five Years, Expiration Dates)
• Jennifer Weiner
• Ashley Poston (contemporary speculative romance)
• Upcoming: The Mashup by Laura Marie Myers

6. YA Fantasy: Enchanted House Guardians ([49:39])

Comps:

• Cozy adult fantasy with YA crossover:
  • TJ Klune
  • Travis Baldry
  • Rebecca Thorne

7. Speculative Political Thriller: New Element, New Institute ([51:38])

Comps:

• Dark Matter by Blake Crouch (“my number one favorite speculative thriller of all time” — Emily)
• The Power by Naomi Alderman
• Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir (note: movie incoming)
• Smaller-scale: Rob Hart, Noah Hawley

Closing Thoughts and Takeaways

• The hosts encourage writers to embrace openness to feedback, strategic career pivots, and keeping passion central to the writing process—even at the expense of “playing the game” perfectly.
• Readers and writers are reminded to seek nuance, resist industry pressure to fit narrow molds, and find joy/challenge in cross-genre work.
• The episode exemplifies the supportive and transparent ethos of the podcast, with a blend of deep craft wisdom and practical advice.

Memorable Moment

• “Publishing goes from you feel like you're the shit to you just feel shit.” — Bianca (06:03)

Further Resources

• Find The Naysayers by Liz Fenton & Lisa Steinke on the podcast’s Bookshop.org affiliate page.
• Tune into the new podcast from Liz & Lisa: Delete That Later for more publishing and friendship talk.
• Visit the podcast’s website for info on events and writer resources.

For more actionable publishing and writing advice, subscribe to THE SHIT NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT WRITING wherever you get your podcasts!