Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Episode: "Knowing the Shape of Your Story"
Release Date: March 13, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Knowing the Shape of Your Story," hosted by Bianca Marais alongside co-hosts Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra from P.S. Literary Agency, the discussion centers around the intricate process of crafting a compelling narrative structure. The episode features a deep dive into storytelling techniques with a special guest, Kristin Arnett, a celebrated author known for her nuanced character development and unique narrative styles.

Guest Introduction: Kristin Arnett

Bianca Marais introduces Kristin Arnett, highlighting her impressive credentials:

• Publications: With a Novel (Lambda Literary Award finalist) and Mostly Dead Things (New York Times bestseller, Lambda Literary Award finalist, VCU Cabal First Novelist Award shortlist).
• Academic Background: Master’s in Library and Information Science from Florida State University.
• Achievements: Shearing Fellowship at Black Mountain Institute, residencies at Ragdale Foundation, Vermont Studio Center, Malay Colony, and Studios of Key West.
• Online Presence: Runs the Substack newsletter Dad Lessons with work featured in notable publications like The New York Times, Time, Vogue, and more.

Bianca Marais: "Kristin, welcome to the show."
Kristin Arnett: "Thank you so much for having me."
(00:00 - 03:37)

Discussion: Research and Authenticity in Writing

Kristin emphasizes the significance of thorough research in creating authentic characters and settings. Her librarian background fuels her passion for research, allowing her to delve deeply into topics such as taxidermy and clowning for her novels.

Kristin Arnett: "Being a librarian has 100% affected the way that I approach fiction in my writing career. I genuinely love doing research..."
(05:35 - 08:32)

She discusses the complexities and diversity within clowning, challenging her initial stereotypes and illustrating the depth required to portray such a profession authentically. Kristin underscores the importance of respecting the subjects she writes about, especially when they are often misunderstood or undervalued.

Character Development: Crafting Cherry Hendrix

Bianca delves into Kristin’s character, Cherry Hendrix, from Kristin's new book, noting the seamless blend of humor and depth that makes Cherry a relatable and multi-dimensional character.

Bianca Marais: "You gave me that, like, aha moment as to why somebody would want to do this and how it makes her feel, connected to her late brother..."
(09:41 - 13:45)

Kristin elaborates on her process of embodying Cherry's persona, emphasizing the importance of consistent character voice and the joy she finds in writing from Cherry’s perspective.

Kristin Arnett: "I wanted it to be a very voicey, first person kind of book because I wanted it to sound like somebody really funny next to you..."
(09:41 - 13:45)

Story Structure: The Shape of a Joke

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Kristin’s unique approach to structuring her novel, likening each chapter to a joke with its own setup and punchline. This metaphor underscores the importance of surprise and timing in storytelling.

Kristin Arnett: "Each chapter is its own joke. So each chapter is its own different title for each one. That's kind of like a jokey bit and each is doing its kind of own thing."
(20:26 - 24:21)

She explains how this structure allows for both surprise and cohesiveness throughout the narrative, ensuring that each chapter contributes to the overarching story while maintaining its own distinct flavor.

Innovative Chapter Design: Second Person Perspective

Bianca highlights a pivotal moment in Kristin’s book where she shifts from first person to second person narration, drawing parallels to a magician’s act. This structural choice enhances the intimacy and dynamism between characters.

Bianca Marais: "She moved from the first person voice into the second person voice..."
(24:21 - 25:26)

Kristin Arnett: "I went into second person. And I was like, okay, I can. This is the surprise for myself."
(25:26 - 28:50)

Kristin discusses the intentionality behind maintaining distinct chapter structures to reflect different character interactions and thematic elements, ensuring that each segment serves the story's magic and intimacy.

Character Insight: Balancing Persona and Reality

The conversation shifts to Kristin’s technique for providing deep character insight without overwhelming the reader. She adeptly balances a character’s persona with their true self, allowing readers to uncover layers gradually.

Bianca Marais: "This was just enough. That was just a masterstroke in, like, shortcut, immediately getting the reader to know exactly who this character is..."
(30:44 - 34:37)

Kristin Arnett: "What's the kind of person we put on when we're going into work, when we're going on a date..."
(30:44 - 34:37)

Kristin emphasizes the importance of subtlety in revealing a character’s backstory and motivations, using interactions and internal monologues to showcase different facets of Cherry’s identity.

Conclusion: Embracing Structure and Creativity

Bianca wraps up the episode by commending Kristin’s balance of structured storytelling and creative spontaneity. She underscores the lesson that while editing and polishing are crucial, writers must also trust their creative instincts and maintain the integrity of their narrative choices.

Bianca Marais: "This worked so brilliantly. We needed each of those mini chapter headings. We needed those breaks, exactly as you said..."
(28:50 - 35:34)

Kristin Arnett: "I knew exactly what I needed to do when I got there. And again, it was so fun to write..."
(28:50 - 35:34)

Key Takeaways

1. Research Fuels Authenticity: Deep and respectful research enhances character and setting authenticity, moving beyond stereotypes.
2. Character Voice is Crucial: Maintaining a distinct and consistent character voice, especially in first-person narration, builds relatability and depth.
3. Structured Creativity: Structuring chapters like jokes introduces surprise and maintains narrative cohesiveness.
4. Innovative Narration: Shifting narrative perspectives can heighten intimacy and thematic resonance.
5. Balance in Storytelling: Combining structured approaches with creative freedom leads to engaging and dynamic storytelling.

Notable Quotes

• Kristin Arnett (05:35): "Being a librarian has 100% affected the way that I approach fiction in my writing career. I genuinely love doing research..."

• Kristin Arnett (20:26): "Each chapter is its own joke. So each chapter is its own different title for each one. That's kind of like a jokey bit and each is doing its kind of own thing."

• Kristin Arnett (25:26): "I went into second person. And I was like, okay, I can. This is the surprise for myself."

• Kristin Arnett (30:44): "What's the kind of person we put on when we're going into work, when we're going on a date..."

Final Thoughts

"Knowing the Shape of Your Story" provides emerging writers with invaluable insights into the nuanced process of storytelling. Kristin Arnett’s experiences and techniques offer a blueprint for balancing structure with creativity, ensuring that stories are both cohesive and captivating. Bianca Marais and her co-hosts facilitate a rich discussion that demystifies complex narrative strategies, empowering writers to craft stories that resonate deeply with their audiences.

Note: For more resources and to support independent bookstores, listeners are encouraged to purchase Kristin Arnett’s book through the podcast’s affiliate link on Bookshop.org.