The Shit No One Tells You About Writing: November Bonus Episode
Published: November 24, 2025
Host: Bianca Marais with co-hosts Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra
Featured Guest: Patricia Sands (author of The Bridge Club, Love in Provence trilogy, The French Effect, and more)
Includes: Books with Hooks comp title segment with Emily Summer (East City Bookshop)
Episode Overview
This November Bonus Episode offers a deep dive into the journey of novelist Patricia Sands, who began her writing career at 65 and navigated both independent and traditional publishing, building a devoted readership along the way. The episode explores themes such as late-in-life creativity, defining success in publishing, balancing joy and deadlines, and connecting authentically with readers. The episode also features a “Books with Hooks” segment dispensing thoughtful comp title suggestions for writers, showcasing the importance of positioning, tone, and market awareness.
Featured Interview: Patricia Sands on Writing, Publishing, and Finding Joy in Storytelling
Patricia’s Unusual Path to Authorship
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Patricia started writing at 65 “by accident,” prompted by a friend to turn her real-life bridge club stories into a book.
“I write like I talk, and I talk a lot, so maybe that’s why I started writing.” (Patricia, 04:12)
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Initial publishing attempts involved sending query letters, but as a 65-year-old debut author and “a nobody,” she opted for indie publishing, choosing a company used by successful authors she admired.
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Inspiration from self-publishing success stories:
“If they both used that company, I’m going to use it…I had the best experience with them…and I had excellent editors, they were great.” (Patricia, 08:09)
Key Insight:
- Authenticity Breeds Connection: The local, familiar subject matter (“eight women and our friendship from the time we were in our late teens...into our 70s”) resonated with readers, and word-of-mouth encouraged Patricia to publish.
Transition to Traditional Publishing
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After self-publishing three novels and building a reader base, Patricia was approached by Lake Union Publishing (Amazon’s literary imprint).
“I realized I loved writing. So I continued with my next book…One morning I opened my computer and there was an email: ‘Good morning Patricia, I’m a senior acquisitions editor with Amazon’s Lake Union Publishing.’” (Patricia, 06:14)
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Lake Union acquired her “Love in Provence” trilogy; they respected her original covers and editorial choices—rare in traditional publishing.
“When they re-edited, they hardly changed anything, which made me feel really good about the freelance editors I had used.” (Patricia, 10:53)
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The importance of covers:
“That also is just a lesson that’s always stayed with me about the importance of covers.” (Patricia, 12:09)
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Lake Union later requested a standalone novel, “Drawing Lessons,” set in the south of France—continuing Patricia’s brand of mature protagonists and nuanced settings.
Defining Success, Joy, and Boundaries
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Patricia made an intentional decision to step back from the pressures of traditional publishing schedules due to life circumstances and a desire to preserve “joy” in writing.
“I realized I was so lucky...but I also knew I couldn’t keep up with the deadlines, I knew it would be a very stressful life.” (Patricia, 13:07)
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Bianca highlights the importance for writers to “define success for themselves every few years” and to be conscious of where writing fits into their lives. (Bianca, 15:07)
Notable Quote:
“We come to writing for the joy of it, but when it becomes a job...a lot of the joy is sucked out of it because suddenly it’s not this fun hobby anymore. It’s like the grind, right?” (Bianca, 15:07)
Life After Lake Union: Return to Indie Publishing and Audience Building
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After “Drawing Lessons,” Patricia returned to indie publishing, writing several shorter novels based on reader demand for more stories about beloved characters.
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Discussion of price point as a critical factor in indie authors’ ability to reach new readers and build loyalty:
“People will look at Amazon and go, oh, this is only like $2.99. So I’m prepared to take that chance…Was that part of your marketing campaign in the beginning?” (Bianca, 23:31)
“Lake Union built up my readership…even after your book is out there, they keep promoting it. I love, even now, I get emails from Amazon marketing, saying, ‘your book is on sale for $2.99.’” (Patricia, 24:18) -
On finding and nurturing an audience:
"As indie authors, we really appreciate the connections that we have with our readers. Not that other authors don't, but it's just a more intimate connection, I think." (Patricia, 23:12)
Patricia’s Latest Book: The French Effect
(25:55–27:57)
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Described as “a joy to write,” set in France, centers on a widow novelist dog-sitting in Paris over Christmas, replete with new adventures, romance, and cultural experiences.
“Everything I write is set in France…It really is, I guess, my brand…It’s just a happy story…” (Patricia, 25:55)
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The protagonist’s journey features heart, humor, and found family—classic Patricia Sands trademarks—with advanced reader reviews already strong.
Final Words of Encouragement
“Of course it’s wonderful if you can get an agent and a publisher, but if you can’t, if you have this book and it’s lovely and you believe in it, get it out there…and once people start reading it, maybe the publisher will come to you.” (Patricia, 29:30)
[Books with Hooks] Comps Segment
Timestamps: 33:32–58:09
Host: Bianca Marais with Emily Summer (East City Bookshop)
Format: Listeners submit book descriptions/request for comp titles; Emily riffs on possible comparisons, giving book marketing advice.
Highlights
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Literary Commercial Women’s Fiction (35:03)
- Original comp: Writers & Lovers (Lily King)
- Emily’s recommendations: Ghosts (Dolly Alderton), Goodbye Vitamin (Rachel Kong), All That Life Can Afford (Emily Everett), upcoming Mothers and Other Strangers (Corey Ann Haydew)
- Notable praise:
“What I like about all these books…they all have a 20-something, 30-something young adult narrator who is struggling but they're not a hot mess. You're easy to root for.” (Emily, 36:46)
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Historical Friendship Novel (38:24)
- Original comps: Fellowship Point, Tomorrow x 3
- Emily’s pick: The Wilderness (Angela Flournoy)—multigenerational, multi-POV, identity and friendship focus.
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YA/New Adult Pirate Romantasy (40:35)
- Original comps: Daughter of the Pirate King, Fourth Wing
- Emily’s suggestion: Serpent and the Wings of Night (Carissa Broadbent), The Scholomance Series (Naomi Novik)
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Women’s Literary Suspense with Dark Humor (42:12)
- Original comp: The Missing Half (Ashley Flowers)
- Emily’s additions: Listen to the Lie (Amy Tintera), The Sirens (Amelia Hart) for contemporary/historical split.
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Speculative Romance, Time-Traveling Rockstar (44:11)
- Original comps: Seven Year Slip (Ashley Poston), The Time Traveler’s Wife, Daisy Jones
- Emily’s picks: The Uncool (Cameron Crowe memoir), upcoming Wreck You Heart (Lori Rader-Day), authors Alyssa Sussman & Matt Haig for tone
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Women’s Fiction, Hollywood Publicist Redemption (46:46)
- Domineering protagonist, animal rescue, PR campaign, redemption
- Emily’s picks: The Work Wife (Alison B. Hart), Maria Semple or Taffy Brodesser-Akner for “unlikable but compelling" protagonists
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Contemporary Sci-Fi, Women’s Fiction Crossover (49:12)
- Original comps: This Mortal Coil (too old), Wild Dark Shore (too big)
- Emily’s picks: Blake Crouch (general rec), V.E. Schwab’s Vicious/Vengeful, Helen Phillips's The Need or Hum
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YA Fantasy, Sisters, Political Intrigue, Portal/Quest (51:23)
- Emily’s picks: Three Dark Crowns (Kendare Blake), The Cruel Prince (Holly Black), Sisters of the Snake (Sarena & Sasha Nanua)
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Psychological/New Adult Thriller, Survival, Paranoia (53:10)
- Emily’s picks: Heartwood (Amity Gage), The Nature of Disappearing (Kimmy Cunningham Grant), Peter Heller’s books for survival elements
- Notable moment: Movie recommendation—The Descent for atmosphere (just for fun).
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YA “Spy School" with Fantasy World-Building Appeal (55:48)
- Originals: The Thieves Gambit, Six of Crows, Wednesday (TV)
- Emily’s picks: The Inheritance Games (Jennifer Lynn Barnes), Gail Carriger for the steampunk/gothic vibe
Memorable Quotes & Moments
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On Self-Publishing and Later-in-Life Success
“I started writing at 65, just really kind of by accident…My first novel was about my real life bridge club…But I started hearing from readers and they'd ask what else I had written and I had written nothing.”
(Patricia, 04:12/06:14) -
On Defining Your Own Writing Career
“I think authors really need to stop and define success for themselves every few years...Because here's the thing: we come to writing for the joy of it, but when it becomes a job and we have deadlines...a lot of the joy is sucked out.”
(Bianca, 15:07) -
On Audience Relationships in Indie vs. Traditional Publishing
“As indie authors, we really appreciate the connections that we have with our readers...It's just a more intimate connection, I think.”
(Patricia, 23:12) -
On The Power of Reader Demand
“That's a gift to an author really, to have your readers so engaged with your characters, and because you're engaged with them too.”
(Patricia, 19:29) -
On Not Getting an Agent/Publisher
"If you can get an agent and a publisher, wonderful. But if you can’t...and you believe in [your book], get it out there. Once people start reading it, maybe the publisher will come to you."
(Patricia, 29:30)
Key Takeaways & Advice for Writers
- It’s Never Too Late to Start Writing: Patricia’s career, which began after retirement age, is a powerful testament.
- Hybrid Paths Are Valid: Indie publishing can be a springboard to traditional deals, and vice versa.
- Define (and Redefine) Your Success: Only you know when deadlines and expectations will steal your joy.
- Listen to Your Readers: Audience engagement can guide not only what you write next, but how you thrive.
- Covers Matter: Visual branding impacts discoverability and sales—invest in it, even as an indie.
- Comps Are Key: Understand your book’s tone, audience, and comparable titles for better querying and pitching.
Further Resources
- Patricia Sands’ The French Effect (published November 15, 2025)
- Detailed comp recs in the latter half of the episode (see 33:32–58:09 for Books with Hooks)
- CeCe Lyra’s course “Hacking Writing on a Line Level,” beginning December 4th—info via Instagram or podcast website
For Listeners
- Find Patricia’s books via the show’s affiliate links.
- Submit your own “Books with Hooks” queries via podcast website (before 10th each month, as voice notes).
For emerging and established writers alike, this episode offers wisdom on creative longevity, authenticity, and embracing the unique path that works for you—along with valuable insights on navigating the business side and market positioning for your work.