Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing – "Plotting With Fate"
Episode Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Guests: Tracy Dawson Meyer & Wendy Katzman
Main Theme: An insider’s look at co-writing, plotting, superstition, and navigating the writing career as a team—through the lens of Tracy Dawson Meyer and Wendy Katzman’s sophomore novel, 10,000 Light Years From Okay.
Episode Overview
This episode brings together hosts Bianca Marais and Carly Watters with writing duo Tracy Dawson Meyer and Wendy Katzman, delving into their new novel 10,000 Light Years From Okay. Listeners get an engaging behind-the-scenes of the writing process, the challenges of collaboration, integrating superstition and fate into fiction, and pushing forward in publishing after setbacks. The conversation is candid, warm, and laced with humor—a perfect toolkit for aspiring writers.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Introducing the Novel & Its Themes
[02:56] Tracy Dawson Meyer explains the premise:
- The protagonist is a young writer whose husband’s sudden death eerily mirrors a plot from her debut novel.
- She’s “very superstitious” and struggles with hope, only to be inspired by her daughter to write a romance—and fate takes over when a man like her fictional love interest appears.
- Central themes: connection, coincidence, resilience, and finding one’s way during overwhelming times.
"It really dives into questions of connection, coincidence, resilience, and like, what it means to find your way in the world when it feels overwhelming."
—Wendy Katzman [03:30]
Writing Relationships, In-Laws, and Literary Agents
- The book explores the protagonist Thea’s complex relationship with her in-laws, highlighted by cohabiting after her husband’s death [04:56].
- There’s an insider nod: a literary agent character inspired by Carly’s support and partnership.
"You guys are the seers of contemporary fiction."
—Carly Watters, relaying her encouragement to Tracy & Wendy [07:03]
- The agent in the book is a career partner, echoing real-life experiences with Carly, who’s stuck by the duo “through flops and successes” [08:30].
On Writing Depth and Avoiding Caricatures
- Carly commends Tracy & Wendy for infusing “depth and heart” into the in-law and agent characters, explaining that fiction requires authors to push relationships to the limit for plot—rather than just mirroring reality [09:33].
The Role of Superstition and Fate
Personal Superstitions & Lucky Charms
- Tracy and Wendy are “very superstitious writers.” They always keep lucky dice at their writing desk—each touching one before sending a manuscript [10:44].
- Tracy shares that during cancer treatment (while querying Carly), Wendy gave her a bag of 15 lucky charms, each with significance, to boost hope and resilience [11:16].
"Every time we send a big, like a manuscript off to you, we each touch one of the lucky dice and then we push send."
—Tracy Dawson Meyer [12:16]
- The duo embrace superstitions “just in case” as a way to hedge their bets [12:31].
Manifesting, Coincidences, and Belief
- Tracy offers a personal story of bringing an old Dodgers World Series t-shirt to a crucial game, leading to a walk-off home run reminiscent of the past—a moment of serendipity and wonder [13:43].
"There were so many layers of things that had to happen and coincidences and it was so like, it kind of blew my mind, honestly."
—Tracy Dawson Meyer [15:46]
- Reflection: These moments keep hope alive and connect different eras and experiences, echoing the book’s core of magical coincidences [16:20].
Plot, Coincidence, and Grief
- The novel’s central “coincidence” is that Thea writes a romance to process her grief, and her fictional love interest seems to materialize in real life [16:51–18:48].
- The writing navigates what happens when hope, grief, and fate intersect—especially through the lens of being a parent and creative.
Dogs, Loss, and Emotional Anchors
On the Dog Named Sam
- Both writers are dog lovers; their own dogs provided emotional support during tough periods [22:49].
- In the novel, Thea’s daughter names their new dog “Sam” after her deceased father, blending joy, remembrance, and the messiness of grief [23:15].
"It feels almost disrespectful to name her dog after her late husband. But at the same time, it keeps the memories right there in front of them and keeps that connection going."
—Tracy Dawson Meyer [24:00]
The Co-Writing Process: Logistics & Emotional Management
- Brainstorming and plotting are collaborative and intensive; first drafts are divided by chapters (rather than character, since this novel is single-POV) [26:01].
- Editing is the most time-consuming stage, with both writers smoothing out the voice and structure together [27:23].
- Emotional intelligence and vulnerability are essential:
- “No always wins”—if one partner is uncomfortable with an idea, it gets reworked until both are wholeheartedly on board [28:33].
- Even the tiniest choices (a single word like “phantom”) warrant joint deliberation—with fate sometimes playing a role (the word “phantom” popping up as a spelling bee pangram the next day!) [29:19–30:05].
Balancing Strengths: Dialogue vs. Exposition
- Tracy tends to overwrite (a lawyer’s habit), while Wendy is concise. Tracy focuses on emotional exposition; Wendy prefers dialogue [31:45–32:24].
- The partnership is likened to both an editing and writing team, where “selling” the use of an adverb becomes a running joke [32:45–33:07].
Embracing Writing as a Second (or Third) Act
- Tracy & Wendy started novel writing in their late 40s, entering the craft during life’s second or third act, after other successful careers [34:06].
- They modeled a “growth mindset” (inspired by Carol Dweck’s Mindset)—encouraging themselves to take risks and learn, which boosted their resilience through publishing setbacks [36:34].
"We never had another conversation about, should we try this? Could we do this? We just decided we were going to just do our best, which is what we were asking from our kids."
—Wendy Katzman [37:02]
- The book that got them their agent was never published. Instead of quitting, they took feedback, studied craft, and wrote again—resulting in their successful debut and now a sophomore novel [37:42].
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On Partnership:
"You've always said to us from day one...you're in it for our career. And you've proven that, like, time and again, because, you know, we've had some flops and we've had some successes, and you've always been there saying, you know, I believe in you. Keep going. And that is so meaningful."
—Tracy Dawson Meyer [08:30] -
On Superstition:
"I think part of it is just. It's like just in case."
—Wendy Katzman [12:31] -
On Creative Process:
"Compromise gets you mediocrity. And so what we do is you got to keep working on it until we both get to not just yes, but like, yes with an exclamation point."
—Wendy Katzman [28:33] -
On Growth Mindset:
"Once we did that, we never had another conversation about, should we try this? Could we do this? We just decided we were going to just do our best."
—Wendy Katzman [37:02]
Timestamps of Notable Segments
- [02:56] – Novel premise and introduction
- [04:56] – In-law dynamics in fiction
- [07:03] – Literary agents in life and fiction
- [10:44] – Superstitions and lucky dice ritual
- [13:43] – Coincidence baseball story: fate vs. logic
- [16:51] – Plot-or-life coincidence in the book
- [23:15] – The dog “Sam” and integrating pets into healing
- [26:01] – Co-writing logistics and editing together
- [28:33] – Partnership rules: “No always wins”
- [34:06] – Embracing writing as a new act in life
- [36:34] – The importance of a growth mindset and handling setbacks
Conclusion
This episode is a must-listen for writers and readers alike—especially anyone interested in collaborative creative processes, the power of superstition in productivity and storytelling, and the realities of building a writing career after other life chapters. Tracy Dawson Meyer and Wendy Katzman’s partnership shines a light on the value of friendship, vulnerability, and trusting in both each other—and fate.
Buy 10,000 Light Years From Okay wherever books and audiobooks are sold. Connect with Tracy and Wendy online, and remember: embrace the "yes with an exclamation point" in your own creative journey.