Shooting The Shit

Summary

Episode Summary: "Shooting The Shit" The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Release Date: July 21, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Shit No One Tells You About Writing, host Bianca Marais is joined by literary agents Carly Waters and CeCe Lyra from P.S. Literary Agency. The trio delves into a variety of topics tailored for emerging writers, offering insightful discussions on publishing trends, personal anecdotes, and effective social media strategies for authors and agents alike.

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1. Introducing the New Segment: "Just Shooting the Shit" [02:05]

CeCe Lira unveils an exciting new segment titled "Just Shooting the Shit," designed to provide a more casual and unstructured conversation between her and Carly. This duo segment aims to share behind-the-scenes gossip, publishing trends, and spontaneous discussions that go beyond their regular "Books with Hooks" segment. CeCe explains the inspiration behind the segment, emphasizing the desire to offer listeners a glimpse into the dynamic and often informal interactions between literary agents.

CeCe Lira [03:49]: "Our weekly episode is Just Shooting the Shit...We shoot the shit. The best we've come up with for our episode."

2. Personal Updates and Upcoming Events [05:12]

The conversation shifts to personal updates, with CeCe sharing her excitement about her client, Bailey Hanna, participating in a panel at McNally Jackson in New York. CeCe discusses the logistics of the trip, including meetings with editors, attending Broadway plays, and engaging in cultural activities, highlighting the multifaceted roles agents play in promoting their authors.

CeCe Lira [05:35]: "I'm doing lunch with an editor, going to see 'Omar' on Broadway, and having dinner with Bailey."

3. Gossip: Handling Misaddressed Emails [06:45]

CeCe recounts an amusing yet insightful incident where she received an email from an editor mistakenly addressed to someone else, shedding light on the common workplace mishaps agents and authors might encounter. The discussion emphasizes the importance of professionalism and discretion when handling such situations.

CeCe Lira [06:50]: "I got an email from an editor that wasn't meant for me...It was a rejection meant for their intern."

Bianca Marais [08:28]: "People think it has. I have sent incorrect emails. It's part of being human."

4. Publishing Trends: The Rise of Dark Romantic Comedies [10:26]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring the burgeoning trend of dark romantic comedies in the publishing industry. The hosts analyze the factors contributing to this genre's popularity, such as the balance between humor and dark themes, and its appeal to contemporary readers seeking complex emotional narratives.

Bianca Marais [14:05]: "I like dark comedies. I can see myself liking dark romance...It's about pushing boundaries while still being safe."

CeCe Lira [12:23]: "Dark rom coms are incredibly dark...they're a book about serial killers."

The discussion includes a detailed examination of "Butcher and the Blackbird," highlighting its blend of romance, humor, and dark content. The hosts consider how Gen Z readers' openness to exploring complex emotions in fiction has influenced publishers' willingness to embrace darker themes.

Bianca Marais [17:24]: "Thank you Gen Z for being super awesome. They want to explore these messy emotions in fiction."

5. Social Media Strategies for Literary Agents [21:34]

Carly and CeCe delve into effective social media practices for agents, contrasting traditional approaches with modern strategies that prioritize authenticity and expertise over curated lifestyles. They stress the importance of providing genuine value through content, such as tutorials and practical advice, to engage and grow their audience.

Bianca Marais [27:00]: "I've been trying to be more intentional...Social media is educational for me and a calling card for potential clients."

CeCe Lira [28:43]: "Influence has completely changed...People are gravitating towards creators with genuine expertise."

The conversation highlights personal experiences, with Bianca sharing her efforts to create authentic content that reflects her expertise and personality, while CeCe emphasizes the rewarding aspects of building a meaningful online community.

6. Bestselling Books of the First Half of the Year [21:18]

The agents review the top 10 bestsellers of the first half of the year, providing sales figures and personal impressions of each title. Notable mentions include:

• "Let Them Theory" by Mel Robbins (Hay House): 1,761,538 copies sold.
• "Sunrise on the Reaping" by Suzanne Collins (Scholastic): 1.6 million copies sold.
• "Onyx Storm Deluxe Edition" by Rebecca Yarros: 1.5 million copies sold.
• "Dogman" Series by Dav Pilkey: 500,000 copies sold.
• "The Housemaid" by Frida McFadden: 490,000 copies sold.

The discussion explores the success of deluxe editions and their appeal to dedicated fans, drawing parallels to strategies used by celebrities like Taylor Swift to boost sales through collectible editions.

Bianca Marais [24:22]: "If you are Rebecca Yarros, you're counting your money right now."

CeCe Lira [26:03]: "Deluxe editions are for super fans...It's a way to show your loyalty to the brand."

The agents also note the impressive sales figures, reflecting the robust health of the publishing industry and the varied interests of readers.

7. Conclusion and Future Topics [35:34]

As the episode wraps up, Bianca and CeCe encourage listeners to engage with the show by providing feedback and suggestions for future topics. They express enthusiasm for upcoming discussions, including a planned deep dive into the implications of artificial intelligence in publishing.

Bianca Marais [35:47]: "I just want the gossip. I'm here for the gossip."

CeCe Lira [36:02]: "We're looking forward to engaging with you guys in a different format."

The hosts reiterate their commitment to delivering valuable content, blending professional insights with relatable conversations to support emerging writers navigating the complexities of the publishing world.

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Key Takeaways:

• Emerging Trends: Dark romantic comedies are gaining traction, blending humor with intense themes to cater to modern readers' desires for complex narratives.

• Professional Insights: Handling workplace mishaps, such as misaddressed emails, requires grace and professionalism to maintain positive industry relationships.

• Social Media Strategy: Authenticity and valuable content are paramount for agents and authors seeking to build and engage their online communities effectively.

• Market Success: Deluxe editions and collectible formats continue to thrive, driven by passionate fanbases and strategic marketing approaches.

This episode offers a comprehensive look into the current landscape of writing and publishing, enriched by the hosts' firsthand experiences and thoughtful analysis. Whether you're an aspiring writer or an established author, the discussions provide actionable insights to enhance your craft and navigate the ever-evolving publishing industry.

Transcript

[Carly Waters]

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[Cece Lira]

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[Carly Waters]

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[Cece Lira]

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[Carly Waters]

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[Bianca Murray]

Hi there and welcome to our show, the shit no one tells you about Writing. I'm Bianca Murray and I'm joined by Carly Waters and Cece Lira from PS Literary Agency.

[Cece Lira]

Hi everybody. As you'll notice, you have just Carly and Cece today because I have come up with a fun new segment that I have drawn cece in to join me on. So cece and I are going to be doing a duo podcast series where cece and I solo. I guess that's duo. The two of us have our own episode. It'll be every Monday except for when we have our Bonus episodes. Those aren't going anywhere throughout the month, so you're getting a lot more Carly CC time. And how this came about was that I like talking to cece about a lot of things, and especially publishing gossip and trends and news articles. And there's only so much we can fit into books with hooks. And we just thought, why? Why not invite you guys in? So that's what you're going to get from us. Just behind the scenes, everything from gossip to trends and so much more. So, cece, thanks for coming on this adventure with me.

[Bianca Murray]

Thank you for coming up with this great idea. I just love the idea that, you know, we chat all the time anyway, and we're always exchanging stories and asking each other fun questions, and it's all very casual and fun and conversational, but also very informative, I hope. And we love the idea of you guys being flies on the wall and getting to listen in on that. And we definitely want to hear how you feel about the segment. So drop a comment and let us know. Let us know what you want us to talk about. You know, we're just really interested in seeing how this more unstructured approach will go. Bianca isn't here, so there's no one to go like this. We're not structured.

[Cece Lira]

If you're not watching on YouTube, Cece's doing helicopter hands. There's no one to helicopter hands us.

[Bianca Murray]

So I don't know if this is going to be an I'm sorry situation or you're welcome situation. We'll see.

[Cece Lira]

Yes. Well. And so I don't think I mentioned this yet. The title that I have come up with for this series or segment or whatever you want to call it, our weekly episode is Just Shooting the Shit. Because, number one, the idea was just. It was a more casual conversation between me and Cece, and it's on brand with the shit. No one tells you about writing. So we shoot the shit. I couldn't come up with a better name for the segment. I think I'm the one that came up with books with hooks, and I like that one, and that worked. But if anybody has something better for cece and my conversation, I don't know, I tried to think about, like, should we incorporate the word coffee into it? I don't know. Coffee with the Agents. I don't know. Nothing was really rolling off the tongue. And therefore, cece and Carly shoot the shit. The best we've come up with for our episode. Just agents just talking shit.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. What's more, what could you want not to be Confused with shit talking agents. Let's not do that. At least not us. Because we're nice, we're cool.

[Cece Lira]

Yes, totally. All right, so we tried to provide some structure for this episode. So basically what we're going to do is off the top of the episode, we'll just kind of, you know, check in with each other about how the week is going, what's new, what's the gossip, what's the trends. Then we're going to just talk about some articles that we've read that we're kind of like trying to keep up on our own publishing, news, education. And then we'll kind of, you know, end on any other kind of trend pieces we want to talk about. And that's kind of it. So that's our, that's our plan. Lots of gossip, lots of trends, lots of behind the scenes, and that's where we're at.

[Bianca Murray]

Sounds amazing.

[Cece Lira]

All right, let's do it. So in terms of what I have going on this week, I am very excited because my client Bailey Hanna is going to be in New York for an event. She got invited to do an incredible panel at McNally Jackson. And so I don't normally, you know, hop on a plane whenever a client has an event, but I haven't met Bailey Hannah in person yet. My Canadian cowboy Ro author. She writes the Wells Ranch series and the panel is going to be incredible. And so anyway, I had to book my ticket and, and hop on over, so I'm doing that.

[Bianca Murray]

Well, what else are you doing? Since you're going to be in the city, like what other fun stuff do you have planned?

[Cece Lira]

Yeah, so normally obviously I try to pack in some editor meetings. The summer can be really hit or miss. There's a lot of people that are away, they're out of the city, they're, you know, working from another location, people traveling. So it's been hard to nail down some meetings, but no problem there. I'm definitely having lunch with an editor. My assistant lives in New York. So my assistant Maria and I are gonna kind of hole up in a coffee shop and kind of work away and kind of do like a little co working thing. I got tickets to Omar. I haven't seen Omari, the Broadway play yet. So I'm gonna go see that fit in some shopping and Bailey and I are gonna get dinner. So some editor stuff, some fun stuff, some cultural stuff and, and that's my plan.

[Bianca Murray]

I love that you're gonna have the best time and you have to tell us all about how that super fun event Goes, I love. I really want to know. I also want to know, like, what gossip is going on, because I heard that you have gossip to share with us. You said we're going to share gossip, so now what's the gossip?

[Cece Lira]

If I'm teasing gossip, I guess I got to deliver. So literally, like a half an hour.

[Unknown]

Before we were sitting down to record.

[Cece Lira]

This, and I'm not going to name any names, obviously, because that would be totally uncool, and I would never want to embarrass anybody or anything like that. But a half an hour before I sat down to record, I got an email from an editor. And the name, like the Dear so and so reply was not my name. So right away, I was like, oh, this editor sending an email to me that is not me. This is. This is meant for somebody else. And so I start reading, and I'm like, oh, this was meant for her intern or assistant. And basically it was a reply chain on the reply chain to my pitch. So I pitch editors, they reply, they want to read the manuscript. We go back and forth. They say they read it, da, da, da, da. And they're send me, you know, we want to hop on a call, or, you know, there's my pass. And so basically it was a reply back to the intern or assistant who had done a reader's report for the manuscript, and they wrote a rejection based on the reader's report, and just, like, pasted that into the email as, like, a learning experience to this other person. And so I'm like. At this point, I'm kind of like, okay, do I just, like, wait for them to figure out that they made the mistake about sending me the email that's not addressed to me? Do I say, hey, you know, this obviously wasn't for me, you know, so I'm. Anyway, this literally just happened before I got on this Zoom, this Riverside call. So, yeah. Cece, what do you do in these situations when people send you emails that work for you?

[Bianca Murray]

I mean, first of all, like, I'm just glad that this was the boss who accidentally sent it to you and not the assistant.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

Because that would make me feel so bad for the assistant. Like, it's gossip either way. And listen, gossip is gossip. But, like, I'm just thankful that, you know, for this assistant's sake, I'm thankful that it was her boss that made the mistake and not the other way around. Yeah, this has happened. Not. Not with. Not in the situation you're describing to me, but I feel. Feel like if you work, if you exist in our world and you deal with emails, this happens. And we've also sent, you know, incorrect emails. This is just part of being human. I would wait for them to figure it out, because I think that nothing tortures people. More like silence. You want to torture someone? Silence. And I like the idea of torturing a little bit. I'll be honest.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. I feel like. Yeah. Mixed feelings, right. I'm kind of like, okay, it is what it is. Again, like you said, we're all human. We're all make mistakes. We have these desk jockey jobs where we just type in emails and, you know, wrong things happen all the time. You know, it's a reminder to all of us, you know, double check the sender, double check. You know, what you're doing. It's a wake up call for us to all be the best kind of, I don't know, digitally literate workers that we can be.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Cece Lira]

So anyway, as I said, I'm trying not to name names or overexpose the situation, but, yeah, it was just kind of like, oh, okay, I don't want to think differently about this person. It happens.

[Bianca Murray]

And we all know that assistants read manuscripts sometimes slash office. Like, it's not like we found out, you know, a top secret thing or it's just. Yeah, it's. I don't know.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah, it's kind of just like seeing how the sausage gets made in a way where you're like.

[Unknown]

Did I need to see.

[Bianca Murray]

That's okay. I don't. I didn't need to see that.

[Cece Lira]

Business works.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, no, we don't.

[Unknown]

We don't.

[Bianca Murray]

Let's remain under the illusion that that's better.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. So anyway, maybe I'll give you guys an update next week if the situation's resolved. But anyway, as Cece said, it happens. Yeah. And that. That was my gossipy thing that happened right before I hopped on this zoom.

[Bianca Murray]

Amazing. Amazing. Well, okay.

[Cece Lira]

I don't. I feel like, also high stakes that every week I got to deliver some gossip on this show. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

Now you have to escalate the tension. You have to escalate the tension. Always be escalating.

[Cece Lira]

Are these dominoes tipping in my gossip story? All right, so, Cece, what has been happening in the publishing news this week? What is. What's been interesting to you?

[Bianca Murray]

I mean, I loved an article that you shared with me about how dark rom coms are trending. Like, to me, that's super interesting. Like, my first reaction when I found out that dark rom coms were trending was to go, me Likey, I've never read one yet, but I'll say this. I like dark. Everyone knows this about me. I like dark. I like dark comedies. I can see myself liking dark romance. I just want to know, like, I'm super curious to read my first dark rom com and I'm really curious to understand, I mean, A, how you straddle that line, but also B, how much of the danger needs to come from the love interest. Because that to me seems like a really interesting line to toe. You have to do it really well and really carefully to really make sure that you're feeling all those emotions, but also that you're not crossing the line.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah, no, it's super interesting. And obviously we should preface this with dark romance or dark rom coms have been around for a while and they are some. They were self published, actually classically and then kind of picked up by larger publishers because a couple years ago editors would say, I'm interested in republishing self published manuscripts in the romance space. But I can't go this dark or I can't go too dark or there was like a line and often they would say that like Adeline book, they're like that. I can't do that. And so it's really. What's really interesting to me as a publishing professional is that there was kind of this line of, I don't want to say conservativism or anything like that, but like a level of like, what can we as big five publishers publish in a way that feels mainstream? And these dark rom coms, like, I can read you the, the trigger warnings because there's a lot of them. You know, they're incredibly dark. So this is the Butcher and the Blackbird content trigger warnings. Cece, are you ready for this?

[Bianca Murray]

I'm fine. Okay.

[Cece Lira]

Eyeballs and eye sockets. Amateur surgery. Skin ornaments. Chainsaws, axes, knives, scalpels. Accidental cannibalism. Not so accidental cannibalism. Questionable use of mummified corpse. Lobotomized manservant. Ill advised use of kitchen implements. Sorry about the cookies and cream. Ice cream. Detailed sex scenes. And we go through like all the kinks. References to parental neglect and child abuse, parental loss. References to child sexual assault.

[Unknown]

Not in detail.

[Cece Lira]

This is a book about serial killers. So there's some messed up murder and chaos. Like that's how dark we're going here. And this is a.

[Bianca Murray]

What eyeballs mean? Like, what does the first one mean? I don't understand. Why do eyeballs need a.

[Cece Lira]

Those of you that have read Butcher the Blackbird know what's happening here, but basically, like, we're talking about an incredibly dark situation. But I think what. One of the reasons I think you should read, you know, and Butcher Blackbird is just an example of the rom com versus a dark romance. So the rom com actually has a lot of voice to it. This Butcher and Blackbird that I'm reading, I've not finished it, but there's so much like the voice and the banter and like what makes it funny, despite all the like, grossness and darkness. Anyway, it's very interesting to me and I know our listeners, I'm sure are, you know, those of you in the romance space or dark romance space are very familiar with this and you feel like we're having this conversation two to three years too late. But. Yeah, but the article that we're talking about, it is from the Romancing the Phone substack article called the Rise of Dark Rom Coms. Lights out and Sociopath, Golden Retriever, Boyfriends Romancing the Phone is by Alyssa Morris. It's her. Her sub stack. Anyway, I just thought, you know, Cece, I'm. I'm curious about when, when you read your first dark rom com, what you.

[Bianca Murray]

Think, well, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. And then when we chat next week, I'll report back and I'll be like, this is how I feel about the ill advice, ill advised used of kitchen utensils. Like, I'm just. Yeah, I. It takes a lot to freak me out. I didn't hear anything about babies for babies and that.

[Cece Lira]

And I know, I was gonna say, I know that you're very particular about animal cruelty.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, yeah. Just because if it's fiction, you don't need to make that up. I get if a non fiction is different, but like, yeah, I just don't need that. I, you know, I think, I think it's really interesting. Sure, I'm excited to read and I'm excited to, you know, potentially take a look at dark romcoms and on my list. But why, like, why are these on the rise? That's always the question, right. When we think about trends and how much of this is the fact that we want controlled chaos, like the world is chaos. And so, you know, readers want that feeling of pushing boundaries in a story while still being safe. Because to your point, I think humor, one of the most amazing things that humor can do is humor can disarm any situation and just like, you know, lower the tension. But in a good way. I'm thinking of Jesse Q. Sutanto's Dial A for Aunties. You know, there's a scene where they're literally held at gunpoint. And it's so funny because of the tone and because of the writing. And you're not as scared as you would have been if that. That book didn't have the calm element to it. So I think that that's what's behind this. I don't know if I don't. I'm curious to hear, like, what you think, Carly. How much of this has to do with our like, unpredictable, unstable, messed up world.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah, I was thinking about it. I think this article does a good job of like, pulling back, like, you know, just going back in terms of where did this all begin? They, you know, trace it back to 50 Shades of Gray in terms of like big five publishers publishing romances about kinks. And it's like, you know, obviously we. It goes very dark from. This is much darker in a lot of ways. And then there was de. Right. There's all these things where people have always had this morbid fascination with true crime or serial killers and in a way that feels very, like, distant. It's fictionalized, right. This isn't reality in these cases. So there's some distance there. But yeah, I don't know. I don't, you know, I. I'm not a psychologist, but maybe we need a psychologist to come on and explain to us the, the dark side of this. But also just coming back to where the calm element comes into it, there's something very humanizing about the comedy piece because again, this could be really dark and gory and feel very like, is this reality? And then when the calm piece comes in and the actual romance piece comes in, it's like, that's where reality comes in. And I think it is a very confusing genre in terms of why this works. But, you know, obviously it was kind of tested in the self pub waters and really took off, which is again why publishers are gravitating towards this. But I would say there's a huge change in the past couple years of publishers not wanting to go to like that there was a line of what's too dark? And versus like where they're willing to go now is interesting to me.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, I'm just grateful to the Gen Z readers in some publishing houses. I'm like, convinced this is like, it all comes down to them. They're like, no, people are fine. People are good to explore these messy emotions in fiction. It's in reality that we might not want to. So thank you Gen Z. Thank you for being once again super awesome. I am crediting this to you right?

[Cece Lira]

All right, well let's just say I will keep reading Butcher and the Blackbird. Cece can decide if she wants to join me in this read and we can report back on this. But yeah, if you guys want to check out the article, it's the Rise of Dark Rom coms on the the Romancing the Phone substack. Super interesting.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

Claim your 50 off today. Don't miss out.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

It's best to get things that we.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

I don't know why I would pay mall prices when I have quints.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

Ways since I got it.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

Super cute. So if you're listening to this, we.

[Unknown]

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[Cece Lira]

Cece. Another thing I wanted to talk about was the best selling books of the first half of the year. I sent you over that link which Publishers Weekly puts out. Was there any surprises? Do you want to run through the list? Like, what did we think about the top 10 best selling books of the year so far?

[Bianca Murray]

Okay, number one, the Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins imprint is Hay House and it sold 1,761,538 copies.

[Cece Lira]

That's a lot of copies. Okay, next one is fiction Sunrise on the Reaping. Suzanne Collins from Scholastic sold 1.6 million. So really close actually behind Let Them Theory.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. And then we have Onyx storm at number three. Yep. Yarrows 1.5, 1.58.

[Cece Lira]

I should say that also very close. Yeah. Okay, now there's a big jump. So Those are the three. So it was 1.7, 1.6, 1.5 million units. Now we have a bit of a jump. At number four is Dogman. Number 13, Big Jim begins Dav Pilkey's A Graphic Novel Series. Number 13, the Dogman Books. Half a million, right on 500K.

[Bianca Murray]

And then like, super impressive right after that, at number five, the housemaid, Frida McFadden, published by Grand Central. 490,000. So, like just under half a million.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. And then the rest of the list is, you know, follows in the 400,000. So, so many copies. So. So this is interesting. So CC Red at number three, Onyx Storm Deluxe Edition. Now it's number six, Onyx Storm Regular Edition, Rebecca Yarros. And that was 450,000 copies. So you can kind of add that to the Onyx Storm numbers. And that actually, if you combine those two, would actually top let them theory.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. So basically, like, if you are Rebecca Yaros, you're counting your money right now. And good for you, Rebecca. We have atomic habits after that. 439,000.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. And that's the second nonfiction on the list. Right. So the rest has been fiction. The next is just a classic. This one, I feel like it's always on the list. Oh, the places you'll go. Dr. Seuss. 436,000 copies.

[Bianca Murray]

And then we have fourth wink, because once again, Rebecca. Rebecca. Hi. Let's chat. 433,000.

[Cece Lira]

All right. And then the last is another Frida McFadden. Number 10 is the Crash by Frida. And that one sold 417,000 units. So a lot of books were sold the first half of the year.

[Bianca Murray]

A lot of books. I'm surprised. I'm surprised by the fact that the Deluxe Edition did so well. I guess I shouldn't be just because fans are so loyal. And when you really, really love something, when that devotion becomes obsession in a good way, you want to get the Deluxe Edition. You want to get all the merchandise. You want to do that. I'll be honest. I've never bought a deluxe edition of anything ever in my life. It's just not me. I like the story so much, it's less about the packaging. So I still get surprised. But I shouldn't because I logically know what a big deal this is. Like, do. Are you like a Deluxe Edition fan, Carly?

[Cece Lira]

No, I'm not. But I've been following the kind of trends around deluxe editions kind of. Not super closely, but interestingly to think, like, okay, what's going on here. Why are they making these? Part of it, I think, comes to the Taylor Swift theory of it all, which is if you put out four different cover versions of Midnights, people are gonna, you know, super fans are gonna buy all four and then they're gonna collect them. And then it's like a way to show your loyalty to the brand or the person or culture icon or the artist. You know what I'm trying to say? And it's a way to kind of have that. And obviously it's a lot of money to buy all these different units, but some people feel like, oh, if you're a super fan, then you buy this, this, this, this. Right. So I think part of it is that kind of Taylor Swift theory of it all cashing in on the success. Some of it I also think is, you know, formats are always going to do better in different markets. So the Deluxe edition, again, is for the super fans. The hardcover version or paperback version is for, it could be more for library markets or, you know what I'm trying to say, like, so there is, there is always a reason why certain formats do better in certain markets, but it's very obvious that a Deluxe edition is for the super fans because obviously the Deluxe edition was at number three when the regular edition was at number six, and the Deluxe edition outperformed by two to three times. Right. So quite a, quite a bit of difference there. I bought the ebook just because I wanted to, you know, get it on my Kindle right away. And yet it's taken till the summer for me to actually read it. So I didn't necessarily need to get the auto download on my Kindle. Any other surprises there? I mean, I don't think we need to rehash kind of let them theory. I think a lot has been said about that, but that's obviously an extraordinary number of sales.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I, I, I just, I feel like none of the titles were surprising because, like, you know, we, we know these books do well. Right. Like, we, we have a sense, I think it's interesting to share numbers. A lot of publishing doesn't come with like, statistics and just like, having a sense of that, having a sense of the, like, First Half Top 10 bestsellers of the year so far. Right. Like, we're in July, we're recording this in July. So. Yeah, I find it, I find it really interesting.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. Anyway, I wanted to give you guys a snapshot of just, yeah, some numbers. It's always nice to see what the numbers actually look like there. All right, cece, so I sent you a link to an Instagram post and I really like this account. It's called Join Girls Club. The girls club is the brand, but space. It's an incredible, like, influencer and marketing account. Anyway, so I asked cece to go do the slide that says influence has completely changed. So I want to talk a little bit about how cece and I approach our own socials because we also coach authors based on how we, you know, approach socials, how publishers talk about socials. And I think this is super interesting to just talk about in the larger scheme of things because cece and I don't really consider ourselves influencers. I think we more consider ourselves. I don't want to speak for cece. I consider myself a thought leader. More of like a thought leader than influencer. I have never done spawncon. Firstly, I don't know who wants to sponsor me, but nobody has approached me for Spawn Con. So I consider myself more of a thought leader. And so I found this really interesting because it has kind of like the old way of socials and the new way of social. So I'll read you guys the old way. The old way says perfect lifestyle content, aesthetic appeal, over value, flexing luxury, curated moments. And then the new way to approach social media is real knowledge, how to and tutorials, practical skills and expertise and authenticity. It says people are gravitating towards creators with genuine expertise, real world experience and truly helpful content rather than those flaunting their lifestyle. And I feel like this is not new information by any means. I like the way that they kind of like, you know, put this in a little bit of a chart. But I've been actually thinking a lot about with my own socials, you know, how just to make it very clear, it wasn't written by AI, you know, because there's so much now that you can just put into chat, GPT or Gemini, like, what would an agent say about this? What would a literary agent do in this situation? So I think it's really important to do, like, for us to do more reels or do more things like this, where we actually talk about things based on our actual experience and not something that people, you know, need to. Need to find on the Internet. But anyway, has anything changed, I guess for you, cc, about how you approach socials or, or how you create content?

[Bianca Murray]

I've been trying to be more intentional. Like social media does not come naturally to me at all. And if anyone had told me that I would be so active on social media, even A few years ago, I would have been like, no, sir, you are incorrect. Which is kind of fun because it means that, you know, any. If I can do it, believe me, anyone can. But for me, I've been trying to be more intentional. I'm big on, like, being organic when it comes to things. I think that, like, just heavily curated stuff doesn't work for me. It works for other people, and that's super awesome. For me, it doesn't. But at the same time, I'm trying to, like, keep that feel and keep the fact that I want to talk about things that I like to talk about and things that I find to be useful. I've been trying to be more mindful of just how. How much the algorithm will influence who gets to see your social media page. Part of social media is definitely educational for me. Part of it is also like a calling card, you know, like, if anyone is looking for an agen, and they see my presence and they go, oh, I. I kind of like that. That woman's energy, I'm gonna. I'm gonna query her. Like, that's a win for me. Just being very honest here. And it's possible that the reverse would happen, but then they wouldn't like my energy anyway. So, like, better to know now. Yeah. Like, if you like me, you like me. If you don't, you don't like. I can't change who I am, but I've been trying to just be conscious of the algorithm. So even things like the other day I posted, like, I intentionally created a reel around the hook. You look happier. You look a lot happier. Because everyone's been one, right? So. And I feel like the algorithm will push it, and. And I don't know if that's actually like, just an impression or not, but, like, when I follow these hooks, I usually get more eyeballs, and more eyeballs could mean more potential clients down the line, assuming people like what they see. And so it's, It's. It's a part of being. Being a business these days. I know that there are authors who say, well, I don't want to be on social media. And that's okay, because you get to decide ultimately what you want, but you are consciously choosing not to be a part of something that most people are for business purposes. Like, you just have to have that kind of mentality. So things have changed. Things have definitely changed. I've been trying to be more mindful, trying to be more conscientious, and it hasn't gotten easier. People think it has. People have gone oh, you found your groove. I have not. Like, it hasn't gotten easier at all, but it has gotten more fun, so that's nice.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. And also, the bigger a following gets, the more you're in conversation with other people, which I find very validating, because, you know, when you start out on socials, you're like, I am literally talking to no one. Like, you know, have you seen those things where it's like, this is what a room of one person looks like. This is what a room. Yeah, 10 people looks like. This is what a room of 100 people looks like. This is what, a thousand. A hundred thousand. You're like, whoa. Like, we actually do talk to a lot of people through this platform. And it always blows my mind when I'm, you know, recognized in public or, like, for example, everybody that came out to Bianca's event, like, those are times where it kind of blows my mind, where the fact that I know there are, like, tens of thousands of people that will probably listen to this episode, like, that type of stuff kind of blows my mind in such a wonderful way that the work that we're doing gets to be reached by so many people. And like you said, and I totally started all of this in terms of my own socials with the mentality of, I'm going to be out there telling people who I am, what I'm about, sharing my expertise. If you like this energy, it's reciprocal. And this is kind of the vibe you're going to get from working with me. And it served me really well. And here we are.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. And I think that authors can find agents on social media, but they can also find other authors. And the community piece is just the best. Like, I will say, like, one of my top favorite things to hear on social media, whether because they get tagged on the post or because I get a dm, it's when people tell me, I made this best friend because of your podcast, or I made this best friend because of a course I took, of course, by you. And so I think that's just really refreshing and validating, and it's just, like, good news out there, you know, like, we need more good news. Because obviously. And so it's just. It's just fun to see these connections being made. It's not something that we intentionally organize. We don't have the capacity for that, but it happens organically, and that's kind of cool to see.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah, totally. And I'm like, when I see influencers out there that are just, like, getting made fun of in their Feeds or like getting dumped on or get. I'm like, I, I, I don't know if I have thick enough skin to be like an actual influencer. I'm like, I'm very much in my own little bubble and I feel super grateful for that. But I also, I very much, I block people, you know, if they're rude. On my socials, I block people. I don't, I don't tend to delete comments because, you know, people take screenshots of that and it is what it is and you know, anybody can see that comment and make their own opinion about it. But I definitely will block people if they're being rude. So, you know, for sure, you coming into my house talking to me like that.

[Bianca Murray]

No, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, listen, it's. No one deserves to be spoken to in a way that's like really rude or potentially abusive. Right? Like, I've definitely blocked people too. I will also say to anyone who's listening, like, love getting comments, love getting DMs. Please do not pitch me via DMs. I'm only saying this because even though I say this quite often when I post like manuscript wish lists, I sometimes do get DMs that are like, hey, I have this novel. Would you be interested in it? And I do not respond at all, like, even if it sounds really cool and interesting. Because I have a policy. Like we all have a policy that, like, I, to keep my sanity. And also to be fair, to follow, you know, policy. I have to receive queries via the query email that anyone has access to. Anyone can email me there. Please do, if you're interested. But it's not, you know, it's not a situation where I have anything against you specifically. Specifically or your message. It's really just like, this is to keep me sane. You want me sane like you do not want me losing my mind.

[Cece Lira]

I, oh, I totally agree. For me, it's the sanity piece. I'm like, I cannot. I get emails and DMs from so many directions. I'm like, I need a specific channel to think. Like that is where that's coming into. But yeah, but we would love to get DMs about what you thought of this episode. This is our inaugural Carleen Cece Shooting the Shit episode. We hope you will get more gossip, more trends, more behind the scenes stuff. If you have an idea about a title that is better than Carly and cc, Shoot the Shit or just Shoot the Shit. Shooting the Shit. I don't know, we're very much Open to it, but we appreciate you guys tuning in, but. Yeah, of course. Give. Give us some ideas about what you want to hear in the next episode. I think some things that are on my list for CeCe and I to talk about. I do want to do a deep dive on, like, a bigger AI episode. It's just not something I think we can fit in with, like, a smaller piece of a segment. It requires us to kind of get you guys up to date on where some of the legislation is, where some of the lawsuits are, and cece and I need to spend a bit more time digging into that just so we are, you know, reporting on that in a way that feels really good to us, but I do want to do a deeper deep dive on AI for you guys. Cece, is there anything else you want.

[Unknown]

To make sure we're recovering for these.

[Cece Lira]

Guys in the future?

[Bianca Murray]

I'm just curious to hear what other gossip you're going to have. Like. Like, seriously, like, I'm sure. I am sure we'll come up with some intelligent topics. I'll do a little brainstorm. You know how analytical I am. But, like, I'm sorry. I just want the gossip. I'm here for the gossip.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah. All right, well, things to DM us about what you guys think of dark romance. Have you read Butcher and the Blackbird? Better titles for this segment. Anything else that comes to mind, we're totally open to it, and we're just looking forward to engaging with you guys in a different.

[Unknown]

Slightly different format.

[Cece Lira]

And we'll be back next week.

[Bianca Murray]

Thank you, Carly.

[Cece Lira]

Bye.

[Unknown]

A reminder that this is an unscripted program and our conversations have been edited and condensed and is not a full picture of our feedback or conversation directly with each author. As always, refer back to our written notes for the Folsom picture. Carly Waters and Cece Lira are agents at PS Literate Agency, but their work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency. And the views expressed by Carly and Cece on this podcast are solely that of them as podcast co hosts do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency. A reminder about all the ways that you can support us as a show. Rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts. Tell your writing friends about us. We'd love to help as many writers as possible and follow us on our substack newsletter. Get our stacked newsletter on a weekly basis. Bonus videos, articles, essays, advice, and more. You can find it@the shitaboutwriting.substack.com that's the.

[Cece Lira]

Shitaboutwriting.Substack.Com and that's it for today's episode.

[Bianca Murray]

I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it. Remember, it just takes mix one. Yes.