Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: Shooting the Shit: About digital first book deals and negative experiences with writers' contests
Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra

Brief Overview

In this candid and energetic "Shooting the Shit" episode, literary agents Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra (joined by host Bianca Marais) explore pressing issues in the publishing industry from the perspective of agents and authors. The episode focuses on digital-first book deals—what they are, what to consider, and how authors should approach them—plus a frank discussion about negative experiences with writing contests and the responsibilities of organizers. The hosts share industry insights, illuminate author expectations, and offer compassionate, practical advice, all while maintaining their signature mix of warmth and honesty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Conferences, Meetings, and Industry News

• [03:06–04:56]
  • Carly shares her experience delivering a keynote at DFWCon in Dallas, focusing on AI and authorship (and why she believes writers shouldn’t use AI), and considers recording and sharing it with podcast subscribers.
    • Notable Quote:
      “My stomach’s, like, broiling a little bit, but it’s totally fine and normal and healthy to, you know, push ourselves into new directions.” — Carly ([03:17])
  • Carly recounts conference logistics, agent "wranglers," and the importance of being cared for at events.
  • CeCe is in New York for a week full of agency meetings, breakfast and coffee chats, and a notable film/TV meeting about the myth of “unsellable” genres becoming surprise successes.
    • Notable Quote:
      “It’s always the unsellable that sell for big numbers.” — CeCe quoting a film/TV executive ([08:12])
  • Discussion on the quirks of their agent notebooks and celebrating 25 years of Wendy Sherman Associates.

2. Digital-First Book Deals: What Authors Need to Know

• [10:40–19:37]
  • The hosts respond to a listener DM about being told by their agent that their novel may only get a digital-first deal.
  • Definition & Context
    • Digital-first publishers release primarily in ebook or digital audio, with print available through print-on-demand (POD), not mass print runs.
    • Royalty rates are higher (often 35–60% net, compared to 25% for traditional ebooks), but book prices may be lower (e.g., $4.99–$1.99).
      • Notable Quote:
        “Digital first is... essentially digitally exclusively. Unless there might be a huge demand for the book... but it is POD. It’s print on demand. It’s not actually like a print run.” — Carly ([11:39])
    • Authors shouldn’t assume a digital-first deal is “easier” or as a last resort; it’s still highly competitive.
      • Notable Quote:
        “I want to be really honest about this. It’s still really hard to get a digital first offer. … The fact that it is digital first does not mean that it’s easy to get.” — CeCe ([17:53])
    • Some digital-first publishers prefer authors who aren’t debuts, since it’s harder to launch new names without prior sales history.
  • Advice for Writers
    • Examine your motivations. Why do you want a traditional deal? Is a digital-first really not an option for you, or is it a knee-jerk reaction?
      • Notable Quote:
        “I am not pro digital first, but I’m also not anti digital first... As agents, it’s our job to learn what the market is doing...” — CeCe ([14:03])
    • Consider pausing on a digital-first submission if a traditional debut is your dream; you can keep the manuscript for later and work on another project.
      • Notable Quote:
        “You don’t have to publish that book now. You can go work on something else and debut traditionally and then make another decision...” — Carly ([16:06])
    • Reach out to authors published by the same digital-first imprint to ask about their experiences.
    • Understand that urgency about debuting can lead to poor decisions—think “life is long,” not “life is short.”
    • The right decision depends on the book, the author’s goals, and the moment in the market.
• On Managing Author Expectations
  • Agents must strike a balance: inform clients about realities (“publishing isn’t school—you don’t get an A for effort”) without discouraging ambition.
    • Notable Quote:
      “Publishing is a competitive industry. Like, more people get rejected than not.” — CeCe ([22:43])
    • Clients vary: some are energized by the odds, others may feel discouraged.
    • Open communication between author and agent is essential.

3. Writer Contests & Prize “Ghosting”: Who’s Responsible?

• [32:27–37:56]
  • Another listener DM shares a negative experience winning a contest prize (editorial consultation, manuscript critique, etc.)—only for the prize-giver to go silent after contracts were signed. The contest organizers claimed it was out of their hands.
    • Notable Quote:
      "If they offered this as part of a prize, I feel very strongly that they have to make it right and it’s not okay... use that hope as fuel so you can resolve it.” — CeCe ([34:03])
  • Hosts’ Takeaways:
    • The contest organizers must make things right, even if it means offering an equivalent prize with someone else.
    • Abandoning winners damages the contest’s and organization’s reputation—word travels fast in the writing world.
      • Notable Quote:
        “This is a customer service and a brand issue. ... Word’s gonna get around, right? If somebody has a bad experience with your brand or your product, word’s gonna get around.” — Carly ([34:30])
    • The mention of a contract adds extra legal/ethical weight; if expectations aren’t fulfilled, organizations could be liable.
    • In summary: If a prize can’t be honored, organizers have a duty to substitute something of similar value and experience. Anything less is unacceptable.

4. Final Thoughts & Community Engagement

• [38:05–39:49]
  • The hosts invite listeners to continue sending DMs with juicy questions or dilemmas—CeCe reviews and anonymizes each submission, promising confidentiality.
  • Publishing is hectic in the fall (Frankfurt Book Fair, readings, deals); agents’ workloads are extensive and constantly shifting.
  • Closing reminder: books and book people are fun—the industry is challenging, but also filled with opportunities for joy and resilience.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On “Unsellable” Books:

  • “It’s always the unsellable that sell for big numbers.” — CeCe ([08:12])
  • “A talented author will serve us what we did not know we wanted.” — CeCe ([08:18])

• On Publishing Realities:

  • “Publishing isn’t school. Publishing is a competitive industry. Like, more people get rejected than not.” — CeCe ([22:43])
  • “It can be really hard and also be great.” — Carly ([24:36])

• On Contest Scam Responsibility:

  • “I feel very strongly they have to make it right... use that hope as fuel so you can resolve it.” — CeCe ([34:03])
  • “This is a customer service and a brand issue. ... Word’s gonna get around.” — Carly ([34:30])

Key Timestamps for Segments

• [03:06–04:56] — Carly’s DFWCon experience, keynote on AI, conference anecdotes
• [10:40–24:44] — Digital-first deals explained, royalty details, author expectations, and advice
• [32:27–37:56] — Negative contest experience, host opinions on organizer obligations
• [38:05–39:49] — Listener engagement, industry busyness, closing thoughts

Final Takeaways

• Digital-first publication can be viable and even lucrative, but it’s not “easier” or categorically better/worse than traditional deals; context and author goals are vital.
• Authors must examine their motivations and expectations—and communicate openly with their agents about the “why” behind their choices.
• Writing contest organizers are responsible for ensuring prize winners receive tangible benefits, even if original plans fall through.
• The agents’ tone remains supportive, realistic, and engaged—offering both hard truths and encouragement to emerging writers.

For writers feeling lost or frustrated, this episode offers equal parts wisdom and solidarity: the writing world is tough, but you’re not alone—and, sometimes, the “unsellable” manuscript is just waiting for its moment to surprise everyone.