Carly Waters (2:24)

Right?

Cece Lira (2:24)

Because either I get the good side or Carly gets the good side. I think every listener will agree with me that all of your sides are good. Carly. So I should be winning every time because I legit have one. I have a scar on the other side of my face.

Carly Waters (2:37)

So, listen, you are also beautiful. Should we tell people the next place we're going to be in person? Because I actually don't think we have dropped this information yet to everybody. We have teased the idea that we are all going to be in the same place, but should we let everybody know?

Cece Lira (2:50)

I don't know that we need to do it with the three of us.

Carly Waters (2:52)

Okay. Okay. We'll wait. We'll wait for the next episode of the three of us. And we will let you guys know. Because I was thinking about that. Because we're all going to be in person together this summer. Yeah.

Host/Advertiser (3:02)

Yeah.

Carly Waters (3:02)

Okay, well, we'll break. You're right.

Cece Lira (3:03)

And you'll see who will win the good side battle. You'll see. You'll see. We don't know. We don't know. It's a mystery.

Carly Waters (3:10)

There you go. Okay, well, we'll. We'll save that.

Cece Lira (3:13)

I was going to say, to kick us off, I have a mystery question, but it's not an answer on the spot question. You know how analytical I am. I'm someone who, if you ask me something, I want to process it. I want to look at it through every angle, build all these answer trees in my head. You're welcome to answer right away, but I wanted to invite you to think about it, and then you can answer when we record this next week. Do we record next week? I think we do. Yeah. So this is the question. If you could sign any dead author, this author will now come back to life.

Host/Advertiser (3:43)

Okay?

Cece Lira (3:43)

They're not going to stay dead. They will magically come back to life. Not like a gross zombie situation. They're like, they look nice, you know, they're lovely to work with. I mean, they're just as lovely as they were when they were alive. And if you could sign any author who has already passed away, who would you sign? Fiction or nonfiction? It's totally up to you. The reason why I'm saying only dead authors is because we're lovely agents. We don't poach.

Narrator/Outro (4:05)

Right?

Cece Lira (4:06)

So. But if they're dead. Their agent is dead too, because everyone knows that. That's what happens. Your agent dies after you die because we can't live without our clients.

Narrator/Outro (4:12)

So.

Cece Lira (4:13)

So we're not poaching anyone because the agent has not resurrected. Yes, exactly. So the agent has not resurrected. No zombie agent, just zombie author. And so you get to sign them. So who would it be? Who would you sign? And I. I will answer the same. I love the question of myself. I haven't thought about it yet.

Carly Waters (4:31)

All right, okay, well, I wrote that down. I'll make a note. I will think about that, and we will touch base on that next week. Also, if anybody wants to comment on the YouTube comment section and let us know who they would want to see come back to life as a. As an author. Let us know what your ideas are. And I won't take any of your ideas. I'll think up. I'll think up my own, but you can drop your ideas over there. Yeah, we have. So our list today of topics is a little bit all over the place. Guys, I'm gonna be really honest with you. We have a lot of random ideas that have kind of been accumulating, so we have kind point form list. So, Cece, where do you want to start with our. With our list today?

Cece Lira (5:05)

Oh, I don't know. We have so many things. Maybe we should start with the book. What do you think? I have a book that I finished reading, and I don't know if you've read it already, and you asked me about strangers last week, so I can ask you about this. Have you read Wild Dark Shore?

Carly Waters (5:17)

I have not. It's one of those books where. And this author, she comes up on everybody's list, and I know she is so talented, and I always think, when I have time, I'm gonna read these, or when I'm on vacation, I will read these. So she is on my, like, must read list for the time that I not have. But no, I haven't. And I've heard such amazing things.

Cece Lira (5:35)

So I want to practice name linkage. Right. Practice what I preach. I want to say her name. Charlotte McConaughey, wrote obviously, wild Dark Shore. I just finished it. I was late to the game. This was actually really interesting for me because I. I don't get to read for fun as much as I used to before I was an agent, obviously. And I feel like with every year of agenting, I have, you know, less and less time. Also quite normal. But it's still really important to me to read for fun. It's not even just for fun. It's also market research. But so, anyway, I'm saying this to explain that my eyes were quite tired from all the screen reading. And so I was like, okay, just listen to it to do the audiobook. Read with your ears. And I started, but that did not work for me. And it's a wonderful production, very well recorded. It's just that the writing is just at such a beautiful writing that I was like, I can't. I have to highlight this. And I can't highlight while I walk and listen to a book at the same time. Where are my highlighters? It was very hard not to have my highlighters. So I finally did the ebook, because I love highlighting on my ebook. And oh, my gosh, what a phenomenal novel. We had the editor, Caroline Bleak from Flatiron, speak at our deep dive. And, like, she spoke about how, you know, this book captivated her. And I'm like, I get it now. I get the hype, guys. I get it after reading it. There are books that I read, and I go, still don't get it. This. I get it.

Host/Advertiser (6:55)

Okay.

Carly Waters (6:56)

I love that. Yeah. And that's the thing as agents, like, we hear so many. You gotta read this, you gotta read this. And we're always like, okay, I believe you. But then you hear so many times, and it just becomes a thing that you know. And I think we're gonna talk about this today. You know, things that people comp to, and then it just becomes part of the zeitgeist in our industry, where you're like, have I read it? I've just heard about it so many times. But then you're like, no, I actually need to, like, sit down and read it.

Cece Lira (7:17)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Carly Waters (7:19)

Moving it up my list with all my free time. Speaking of all of our free time. Okay, so I have a. A couple stories I wanted to run through. One of the stories I wanted to tell you about, and this is an example of when I have to talk very vaguely, because it is about a specific thing, but I can't talk about the specific thing because it is needing to be very vague. I got. So, okay, maybe I'll start with saying the normal way that an offer usually arrives in an agent's inbox is usually the result of multiple conversations. You know, whether it's by email, whether it's by phone, sometimes. Very often these. There is an interaction, such as maybe a potential phone call between an editor and an agent and an author. Again, this kind of builds to the editor going to Acquisitions, talking about the project, pulling together their offer, presenting it to the agent.

Cece Lira (8:10)

It's the best part. I love it. You're describing it, and I'm going, yes, yes.

Carly Waters (8:13)

It's so, like, I would like one of those today. Okay, so that is kind of the. There's a building action. There's, like, you know, a lot of momentum.

Host/Advertiser (8:20)

That's.

Carly Waters (8:20)

That's kind of happening. You know, I will say it used to be before COVID that an editor would always call. They would always call with an offer. More and more these days, it's an email with an offer. I mean, it happens very rarely these days that it's a call for a few reasons. Some of it was just like they would call just out of courtesy also to make sure you get the offer. You know, with emails, sometimes you're like, well, I just sent that thing into the ether, obviously hoping it arrives in the inbox. But a call would be like, hey, I'm sending you an offer today. Just so you know, it's blank advance. You know, obviously, I'm gonna get this to you in writing. It's not like that you negotiated on the phone. Per. Sometimes I would ask pointed questions, but I would always be like, send it to me. I'll review it, talk to my client, and I'll be back with you, with you with my notes, like that kind of thing. But there would be a conversation that is building. Yeah, But I think I've told you the story twice. In my agent career, I got offers made to me in person. Did I tell you these stories?

Cece Lira (9:11)

I don't think so, because I would remember. That's very cool. In person. Are you just saying that it happens in the middle of the meeting?

Carly Waters (9:18)

Yeah. It just so happened. Twice this happened to me twice. Just so happened that I was in New York for my regular meetings, and it just so happened that they had had the acquisition meeting that morning, and knowing that they were going to see me that afternoon, that they were like, oh, I wasn't going to. You know, I didn't want to email you because I knew I was seeing you, like, I have an offer for you.

Host/Advertiser (9:36)

Right.

Carly Waters (9:36)

And so that's happened to me twice, which is like, a very. That's a very fun thing. And again, you don't negotiate, like, across the table in the meeting, but you're just like, okay, receiving the information, ask a couple questions, discuss with the client.

Cece Lira (9:48)

Oh, my God, my poker face. When I get an offer, it's always like, thank you. You know, I'm speaking to my client. Then when I call my client. It's like, we have an offer.

Carly Waters (9:55)

Yeah, yeah.

Cece Lira (9:56)

But I'm always like, keep it together, Cece.

Host/Advertiser (9:59)

Yes.

Carly Waters (9:59)

You gotta ask, like, you know, the few select questions that you need to make, you know, the context, and then off we go to talk to the client. Okay, so the reason that I'm bringing all of this up is because I got an offer in my inbox. No prior conversation with this editor about the project or the author.

Cece Lira (10:20)

Right.

Carly Waters (10:21)

The offer came into my inbox with the client's name spelled wrong twice.

Cece Lira (10:28)

Is it a difficult name?

Carly Waters (10:29)

No.

Cece Lira (10:30)

Kind of like my name. People spell it C, E, C, E, as opposed to C E, C. I

Carly Waters (10:34)

mean, any name could be tricky if you just, like, forget a letter or whatever.

Cece Lira (10:37)

Right.

Carly Waters (10:37)

It was spelled incorrectly in the subject heading and incorrectly in the body of the email. And. Yeah. Anyway, it was just one of those things where I was like, if you're gonna go to all of this. All of the hoops that any editor has to go through to make an offer for them to spell the client's name wrong twice in two different ways. It wasn't even like they spelled it. It wasn't like they copy and pasted the name incorrectly for us. Anyway, I was just like, that is a new one for me.

Host/Advertiser (11:04)

Client's name spelled wrong twice.

Cece Lira (11:05)

I. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. I'm trying to think, but people misspell my name all the time. Like lovely people who I know adore me all the time. It's C, E, C, E, L, I, A. That's how you spell it. But that's not the right spelling, like, all the time. Yeah. I don't know. I know this bugs you more than it bugs me, and I'm not trying to. Your feelings at all. Like, I think. I think because it happens so often with me, and you know how weird my name is, right? Like, my. My full name.

Carly Waters (11:30)

You have a very long name. Because you definitely have five names.

Host/Advertiser (11:33)

Right?

Carly Waters (11:33)

Like, you have five.

Cece Lira (11:34)

Hold on. I don't even know. Seven.

Carly Waters (11:37)

Seven. See?

Cece Lira (11:38)

Yeah. So I think. I think that because of that, like, this might be, like, a very. We all project our own stuff, right? So. Yeah, it's definitely a surprising thing, but I don't think it would bug me as much as it would bug you.

Carly Waters (11:49)

Oh, really? Okay.

Cece Lira (11:50)

Which is normal. Yeah. I don't. I mean, they didn't mean to do it, and. And they're giving us money, and, you know, it takes a simple. Hey. Actually, the spelling's blah, blah, blah, and it's okay. Like, it's. I don't know. Obviously different. People feel different.

Carly Waters (12:01)

Okay, all right, well, I, you know, and I, you know, I'm not going to go into the whole aftermath of this, but.

Cece Lira (12:07)

Wait, what did you do? No, now you have to tell us what you did. Did you gently correct it?

Carly Waters (12:11)

Yes.

Cece Lira (12:11)

Take the offer.

Carly Waters (12:12)

It was a gen. I'm not going into that. But it was a gentle correction of the name.

Cece Lira (12:19)

Blink once if you took the offer.

Carly Waters (12:21)

You know, I have to blink because I have to do. I'm human. I know.

Cece Lira (12:25)

I'm doing it on purpose. I know.

Carly Waters (12:28)

Okay.

Cece Lira (12:28)

I hope. I hope that you took the. Whatever offer Major client had, which I know. Of course you did.

Carly Waters (12:35)

All right.

Host/Advertiser (12:35)

All right. Okay.

Carly Waters (12:36)

So that's the end of my vague story about offers with misspelled names. I have another thing that's been on my mind, which is blurbs. I don't know how much we've talked about blurbs on this show before, but just so we're all on the same page, in terms of the listeners, blurbs are the thing that is a quote from another author that goes on kind of either the front cover or the inside jacket copy, sometimes the back. It's the endorsements from your fellow writers, your colleagues, to say, this is a great book. You know, couldn't put it down. All of those kind of, you know, effusive words that, you know, writers say about each other, and that goes into the sales copy. It helps convince booksellers, you know, oh, this. We got to grab this book and, you know, convinces the team to get excited and. And all of those things. So we haven't really talked about blurbs too much in terms of their. Their functionality. But every once in a while, there will be, you know, some sort of rant on social media about why do we even need blurbs. And I think there was a publisher. We think we talked about this where there was a publisher who said, we're not going to do blurbs anymore.

Cece Lira (13:37)

Yep, Yep.

Carly Waters (13:39)

And it was a whole thing where some. Some authors of that imprint who are anonymous said, but there's still an expectation that even though they might not want to do it, that, like, we have to still get the blurb. So, you know, it's. It's a very. It's a very tricky thing. So, cece, do you have strong feelings about blurbs?

Cece Lira (13:56)

Yeah, I think I do. I remember being a reader before I was an agent, and I actually would buy a book depending on who had blurbed it. So I think that's a little bit of where my opinion comes from. Blurbs do matter for me. Like, I think they're an important part of the publishing ecosystem. I absolutely empathize with how much work it is for authors. I really do. Really, this is coming from, from deep inside my heart. Please know there's lots of empathy. At the same time, you know, there are things that are like a part of the job and they're really, really hard, but they're part of the job. And I feel like this is one of them. I feel like obviously keeping boundaries. I'm not saying you have to say yes to every blurb request. Of course not. You know, you will navigate this. This is actually something that clients talk to agents about all the time. You know, when is it okay to say yes, when is it okay to say no? Often the request will come to the agent and the agent responds on the client's behalf. Like, there are many ways to navigate this. But what I am saying is it's really, really important and does make a big difference. I also want to say, keeping it vague, that there are writers out there. Writers. Writers. If you are this writer, you're not listening to the show because I know that you don't listen to this show. Who ask someone for a blurb. So let's say writer A asks writer B for a blurb. And then when writer B asks writer A for a blurb, they don't do it. They don't reciprocate. And that's not cool. Writer A, you know, like, that is not cool. It's not cool to not reciprocate. Once again, yes, there are always situations where it's okay, but generally speaking, you return the favor. I think, you know, it is an economy. It is. People know this, people don't. People aren't going around, you know, living in the world thinking, yes, blurbs magically happen. No, it's a transaction. It's a part of being an author. And it's really not cool to do that. Being a good literary citizen matters a lot. And I actually know a story with a super famous author who refused another also famous but less famous author a blurb after the less famous one had asked her. Sorry, the other way around, after the less, less famous one had given her a blurb. And this was one of those situations where for a while their stars were rising the same. But then one of them took off. I'm going to tell you who it is once we stop recording.

Carly Waters (16:01)

Okay?

Cece Lira (16:01)

Anyway, this person, the super famous one, said no to the now less famous One after, you know, she. She helped her, and then something happened. I don't know if she talked to her agent, her editor, her publicist that she was like, oh, actually, I can do it. You know, she went back on it. She was like, oh, no, I can't. I can offer you the blurb after all. And I was like, happy to see that, because I think she should have.

Carly Waters (16:24)

But. Yeah.

Cece Lira (16:24)

What about you? What are your feelings about this?

Carly Waters (16:26)

Oh, man. I feel like it's. It's a very hard thing to navigate because once authors get really busy and have very busy publishing schedules where maybe they're publishing a book a year, they're on a tight schedule. They have a lot going on. I understand why they start to, like, back off from the blurb process, but that is when their name starts to mean so much, especially to debut authors. And it is so important to continue to blurb. I know there's some authors where, you know, they'll be like, I'm on deadline. But if somebody who. From certain background reaches out, you know, or it's like a debut or, you know, somebody from my hometown or, you know, something where it's like, I will make exceptions for X. I think the more famous an author gets, they have to realize how much their name means.

Cece Lira (17:16)

100.

Carly Waters (17:17)

And so I think it's really important to send the elevator back down again. I know it's hard.

Host/Advertiser (17:21)

Yeah.

Carly Waters (17:22)

So I don't know. I. I just feel like sometimes I wish that people would give more blurbs even when they're really busy. And it's. It's really. It's a really hard thing to ask, though. The other thing is, like, timelines can get really tight with how. How much time do you give somebody to read and ask for the blurb back? That's also really tricky. And some authors will want a digital copy, some will want a physical copy. And then are the arcs printed early enough? So, like, you can see how all of this requires so much organization from the editor, from the production team, to kind of get all of this organized. So it's a lot. And I am very empathetic, but I'm also very pro blurb if youf can, you know, because you never know when you're gonna need a favor from somebody else. Yeah.

Cece Lira (18:03)

And also something I remember. I've heard this from multiple debut authors, Authors who are, like, just about to pub and they don't know each other. Like, I heard this from them in separate situations. They've said something to the effect of, my gosh, getting blurbs is so nerve wracking and I'm so grateful to everyone who gave me a blurb and I will never forget it and I will always return the favor not just to the people who gave me, but to the next class of debut authors. Because once upon a time you were in their shoes. Right? I really appreciate people engaging in this sort of futurizing with their, you know, time traveling into the future and going one day, one day, hopefully I'll have an established career. I won't be a debut. Being a debut is wonderful. I'm not saying bad things about a debut. But you know, one day I won't be a debut anymore and I'll have many books under my belt and I will return the favor to debuts. And I think that's a beautiful sentiment. Beautiful, beautiful sentiment. And I appreciate authors who say that.

Carly Waters (18:52)

Yeah, yeah. And it's hard. As agents, obviously we try to protect our clients time. We know that they are also really busy. So as much notice usually as you can give is best. But yeah, especially with people who write like a book a year, you, those authors also get asked to do a lot of blurbs because like the circles that they run in are also people doing a book a year. Year. And then that's a lot of reading. So it's, that's true. It's really hard. And then if you are probably going to book a year, then you don't want to ask the same people every year the author doing the asking. So you have to like rotate. Oh, I didn't ask him for this book two books ago. They haven't blurred me in a while. And so it is a bit of, you know, politics in that regard. But anyway, that's my ramblings about blurbs and how we still need them. And everybody has to send the elevator back down.

Cece Lira (19:35)

Yes, everybody has to send the elevator back down. I like that line. Yeah, that is a good line. Okay, I have a question. So we're talking about blurbs, we're obviously talking about books. I've been thinking about comps that I get all the time I started doing this thing. It's not sustainable. I'm not going to keep doing it. But I've been trying to manage my slush in a way that's more data driven because we use email, we don't use query manager and it's impossible. I'm giving up. But I tried for a while. So for a while I kept list of the comps, comps and queries that I was getting. I kept it in a little spreadsheet There are some titles that keep get comped over and over again. And this is normal. Not saying it's not normal, but do you see that? Do you see books that are comped all the time and then like what are they on your list?

Carly Waters (20:16)

That's a great question. The one that just always comes to mind for me for at least the past year would be Wedding People. I think Wedding People is comp too. I was like. Because people come to it for different reasons. People come to it about divorce, they come to it about grief, they come to it about love, they come to about wedding books. Like it is the book that encompasses so many things. You know, intergenerational stuff, friendship. Like it just does so many things. And it was such a hit. So Wedding People is top of the list for me. What about you?

Cece Lira (20:47)

Yeah, definitely Wedding People. But also. Oh my gosh, what is the. Of course now I'm totally blinking on it. The God of the woods all the time.

Carly Waters (20:55)

Interesting.

Cece Lira (20:56)

The God of the woods. And again, love these two books. All the applause for these two books. It's tricky though because when you comp to a book that is. That did well.

Carly Waters (21:07)

Yeah.

Cece Lira (21:07)

And that is amazing. And I've read, I have to be honest, I go into the pages very excited, like the sample pages. But I also have very high expectations because you're telling me that this is like the Wedding People. So there's going to be humor and levity and at the same time depth and psychological acuity. Like it's going to have it all. Because that book has it all. Same with the God of the Woods. Tension and propulsion. But at the same time, you know, insights into human behavior and razor of sharp commentary. Like it's all going to be packaged in this amazing entertaining format, which is a tall order. But I'm again, I'm not suggesting people need to stop or worry about this at all. I just feel like as agents we're probably getting the same comps over and over again.

Carly Waters (21:47)

Yeah, totally. All right. And now we're going to hear from our sponsors.

Host/Advertiser (21:52)

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Carly Waters (22:06)

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Carly Waters (24:06)

All right, and we are back. So I wanted to give a shout out to some of the YouTube comments that we have been getting because everybody really chimed in last week, which I love because one of the questions was about the three most used emojis and I was like I could barely come up with them. So this person, Shauna Bowling said the peace sign, the two hearts and cat with heart eyes. Somebody else had just the regular old heart. The kind of, like, crying, laughing face and the celebratory. I don't know what it's called. Party. The party celebratory one. Somebody else had the clapping hands, the double hearts, and the envelope with the heart.

Host/Advertiser (24:42)

That's a really cute one.

Carly Waters (24:43)

Great choice for emojis. Regular heart, Crying, laughing face and cat face. Laughing, crying face, Green heart. The one with, like, the squiggly eyes with, like, the wiggly mouth. I don't know what that one is. Like, dizzy. Is that dizzy?

Cece Lira (24:55)

Yeah. Maybe confused or disoriented. I don't know.

Carly Waters (24:59)

Yeah, I like that one. Okay, so those were. Those were great, great ones from you guys.

Cece Lira (25:04)

We had our AALA mixer, our new member mixer. Everyone who's a new member joins. And because I'm in the membership committee, I go to the mixer and I welcome people with my fellow committee members. And we asked this question of the agents joining the aala and so many of the agents, so many of them. So many of them used the, like, the melting face.

Carly Waters (25:26)

I love melting face. Yeah, that should have been one of mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cece Lira (25:30)

Oh, my God.

Carly Waters (25:31)

It was.

Cece Lira (25:31)

Oh, yeah. Melting face.

Host/Advertiser (25:32)

Melting face.

Cece Lira (25:33)

Like, it was just so funny.

Carly Waters (25:34)

It should have been like the dollar signs, like money bags.

Cece Lira (25:37)

And that one came up as well.

Carly Waters (25:39)

Okay.

Cece Lira (25:39)

But that one is not surprising to me. The melting face. Like, now it isn't. But at the same time, I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that actually dollar sign came up as well.

Host/Advertiser (25:48)

Yeah.

Cece Lira (25:48)

I mean, it's also like, what you use isn't necessarily what you're using with clients.

Host/Advertiser (25:52)

Right.

Cece Lira (25:52)

Like, you might not use emojis with your clients.

Carly Waters (25:54)

Yeah, it's fair. I don't know. Okay. Anique Nelson said I've bought the audio after starting a print or ebook for two reasons. Number one, I loved the book and want to re listen when it doesn't require my full attention. I just want the feels. And more importantly, number two, when there is an experience I want from hearing it. For example, I started reading Cursed Daughters. It was so good, and I wanted the experience of hearing it from an African narrator. Or in this case, two. Extremely good decision. Highly recommend. I also love that when there's something just like, stylistically where you just want to hear something nationally or lyrically or an accent, like, yeah, I love that. Those are really good reasons. I appreciate.

Host/Advertiser (26:36)

I appreciate that.

Carly Waters (26:36)

Yes. Somebody else said they don't have any interest in audiobooks, which is really interesting. And then somebody else said, I'm listening to strangers memoir on audiobook. I am so Torn. I see all these great reviews of it, and I'm struggling. I hate to say that, because I'm writing a memoir, because it makes me think. I don't have a clue. But she thinks she's bored with it, and she says, yes, cece, she reads the audiobook herself. But I had to speed it up. Her reading is very slow. And that's the great thing about audiobooks. You can just do, like, you know, just increase the speed and go as

Host/Advertiser (27:04)

fast as you want.

Cece Lira (27:04)

Okay. I have to say. I have to say. I have to say. Speeding up audiobooks. No, no, no, no.

Host/Advertiser (27:09)

Really?

Carly Waters (27:09)

No.

Cece Lira (27:10)

No, no, no, no, no. Blasphemy. No, I would never.

Carly Waters (27:16)

Interesting. I don't mean.

Cece Lira (27:17)

That is intentional. That is an intentional delivery.

Carly Waters (27:20)

No.

Cece Lira (27:20)

Would you go to play and be like, hey, now, please deliver the play to me at 1.5?

Carly Waters (27:24)

Like, no, no, I. I'm listening to one at 1.3 right now. I will.

Cece Lira (27:28)

No, I'm saying no. Carly's like, I'm not asking you.

Carly Waters (27:32)

And I'm still saying, telling you. Oh, God. Oh, man. All right, well, thank you guys so much for that. We really appreciate you guys chiming in. Someone else said in the comments, I love that Carly does more on a quiet weekend than I do in a busy weekend. So I'm glad we all have our. Have our sense of balance.

Cece Lira (27:50)

Have you ever found Reddit sub threads about us?

Carly Waters (27:55)

No. Oh, my God, no. I would never look for those.

Cece Lira (27:58)

I didn't look for it.

Carly Waters (27:59)

I didn't look for it.

Cece Lira (27:59)

I got sent one. I got sent one, and I made the mistake of clicking on it.

Carly Waters (28:03)

Oh, God.

Cece Lira (28:05)

And a lot of people say this about you. A lot of people go, she does so much. She's so amazing. Like, there's. There's a lot of wonderful things I'm not saying.

Host/Advertiser (28:11)

Oh, God.

Cece Lira (28:11)

But I don't like reading about myself, so. So it's like, lovely comments. Lovely comments, but, like, a lot of people say that. And they say that with good reason.

Carly Waters (28:18)

You are so brave. I started sweating when you started talking about a Reddit thread. I'm like, I don't want to know.

Cece Lira (28:22)

People say, have you seen this? It's a good friend that you trust. Also an agent. And I go, I don't know what? Like, I'll click on it. Yeah, this again. This was my friend. It was in the middle of a chat. There was context, and I'm like, no. And then. And then. You can't not read it. You know, I'm not gonna look at it again. But you can't read it.

Carly Waters (28:38)

All right, well, I do not seek out the Reddit threads about myself. No, thank you. Speaking of preserving our self care, Cece, you had a question about agent self care on our to do list today.

Host/Advertiser (28:48)

I did.

Cece Lira (28:49)

We're humans, and humans have hard weeks, you know, and sometimes the hard week is personal stuff, sometimes it's not. But I firmly believe that agents, our job. Our job, first and foremost, is to sell, and sales is a transfer of energy. And when we're having difficult weeks, our energy is affected, our moods are affected. This is normal. And my question to you is, when you're having a bad week and it's affecting your energy, like, how do you practice self care? Like, what do you do to process it all and still. Still show up as your best self?

Carly Waters (29:20)

Yeah, that's such a beautiful question. I think about it in two buckets because, like, you're talking about having, like, a personal bad week. Because I was thinking about two examples. Like, there could be a bad work week.

Host/Advertiser (29:29)

Right.

Carly Waters (29:29)

And the thing with our job is we interact with so many different people. So if I'm having maybe a negative experience in one bucket of my agent life, I really do have to compartmentalize that, you know, so it doesn't feed over into all other positive client interactions and as agents, you know, and my husband has watched me do this job for over 15 years, and he's like, it is such a roller coaster. He's watched me go on these huge roller coasters, and he's like, you've gotten better over the years about not being so high and not being so low.

Host/Advertiser (29:58)

Right.

Carly Waters (29:58)

Just riding the wave, but riding it closer to the middle, which I think is a good thing.

Host/Advertiser (30:02)

Right.

Carly Waters (30:03)

It's taken me a really long time not to be like, you know, he would watch me if I was waiting for an offer, just sit and, like, twiddle my thumbs for, like, three hours, you know, when I was starting out. And so, like, he's just. He's seen me ride all these, you know, highs and lows, and so it's really interesting from his perspective to have that mirrored. So I will. So that's the work side, right? Where you have to figure out a way to compartmentalize it. Finding a way to ride the highs and lows in a way that feel a bit more moderate, in a way that, you know, feels sustainable. But the personal side, that's such a good question. I'm trying to think of the last example of this. Having a bad week, and it's affecting my energy and how Do I practice self care? One of the most important things for me, really, it's. It's sleep and exercise. And I know it's a really boring answer, but I really, even though I have small kids, I'm somebody that like, really always needed a lot of sleep. I've had friends, you know, who have small kids and like, I can totally survive on five hours, four hours. I'm like, I am not that person. I absolutely need my sleep. So definitely sleep and exercise, you know, And I won't sacrifice one for the other, but if I can get in a good amount of sleep, fit in some exercise. Because the way that I think about this job is, you know, it's a career, it's a lifestyle. It's like, it's not something you dip your toe in and you're like, is this for me? I need to know that I can do this for the next dozens of years. And so, of course, if I ever need to feel like I need to dial things back or it's like I need a vacation, I need a long weekend, I need to take the morning off. You know, I need to book a therapy appointment, need to get a massage. I don't ever feel guilty about that because I know that my clients are going to benefit. My family will benefit from me trying to ride those ways closer to the midline. So I really think about it as like, like big and holistic as I can. Even when it feels really acute. Yeah, that's the way I think about it.

Cece Lira (31:45)

Yeah, that's really.

Carly Waters (31:46)

I.

Cece Lira (31:46)

You know what? I don't think it's a boring answer. Sleep and exercise. I think it's a foundational answer. You're reminding us that sometimes going back to basics is what matters. Here are the things I do. I do really weird things. So some are not weird. The not weird ones, I journal. Journaling helps me. There's something about writing down what I am feeling. Having to put, you know, pen to paper, and it is pen to paper, literally really helps me. I mean, if I have to journal twice a day because it's a really hard day, you know, for a personal reason, then I'll do that. Another thing I do is I play. There are certain songs, certain go to songs. While I don't consider myself to be like a musical person, like I don't listen to music every day, for example. There are certain go to songs that make me feel like I'm in a different place in my life. Like music has that power. Right. Totally support you.

Host/Advertiser (32:32)

It's.

Cece Lira (32:33)

It's very Transcendent. And there are songs that I will play. So if I'm feeling pain, I will play a song, and I want to be reminded that I'm strong. I will play a specific song. And if I'm feeling, you know, disappointed and hurt and just like, I will play a song that reminds me of joyful things. Like, I have specific songs that I listen to on repeat. It's really weird. It's really weird.

Carly Waters (32:54)

No, it's. No, it's meditative and transcendental. It's like the pattern and the repetition is almost religious and spiritual. I love it.

Cece Lira (33:02)

Yeah. And you know something that my client, Dr. Courtney Tracy, taught me? To confuse your brain. Confusing your brain can actually. Like, if your brain is spiraling like mine, and I imagine hers because she taught me this. For a lot of people, this works. Just do something really weird. Like one of the things she did. For example, she lives in California. Guys, please keep this in mind. She just went inside the pool with her clothes on. Like, that confuses your brain, but it essentially resets your brain a little bit. Like, I'm probably not explaining it with the neuro.

Carly Waters (33:28)

It's kind of like cold. It's like cold therapy.

Host/Advertiser (33:30)

Right.

Carly Waters (33:30)

You know when you just immerse yourself in something cold. Like the opposite.

Cece Lira (33:33)

Yes, but with the clothes on. Meaning it's not something like your brain's gonna go.

Carly Waters (33:36)

Your brain shouldn't be there. Yeah.

Cece Lira (33:38)

So your brain kind of resets because you're confusing your brain. Meaning your brain has to stop spiraling so your brain will not focus on something else. And that's just one example. It could be something else. It could be something totally different. So I try to do something that isn't on autopilot. If I'm just doing things that are on autopilot for me, it's too easy for my mind to spiral. So to leave my mind a little bit, I will do. There are a lot of weird things. I won't get into them, but I will do something that will confuse my brain. And then it helps me a little bit. It helps me. And then also, too. I think this is just something that comes with age. You're remembering that you've been through hard moments before and you got through them. And you might not know how things are going to work out or what the future will look like, but you've done it before and you can do it again.

Carly Waters (34:22)

One of my, like, mantras. And I actually recently wrote them all out. I should get them. They're upstairs. Trust your future self. That's the one that I always tell myself, it's like, you know, the version that you've prepared for the future is everything that you've built. And so you're allowed to put the weight down because the future you has already dealt with this and they're ready to catch you in the future.

Cece Lira (34:44)

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Self care is so important.

Carly Waters (34:48)

Love that. All right, next thing we had on our list was. Oh, you had a question for me. We talked about traditional media last week. What question for you? It got me thinking.

Cece Lira (34:57)

Do you read any magazines? I think I've seen you post stories with magazines of like home decor and things like that. I have magazines that I read not religiously, I mean, I guess some religiously, but like, I love reading magazines. You know, I know that there are magazines have had their heyday. Right. Like they've had their peak and we're not there anymore. No, the world has changed. But I quite enjoy magazines. Magazines. I enjoy the feeling of holding a magazine. I think it reminds me of being a teenager because I used to love magazines as a teenager and yeah, I just enjoy the experience. So do you have any magazines that you love? Because I do.

Carly Waters (35:29)

Yeah. I have a long list I definitely love, like interior design, home decorating, Architectural Digest. So I wrote down. I had to write them down because I was like, I have so many. Architectural Digest. Love Dwell. Love Home and Garden. Uk, Specifically uk. Okay. Because North American design. I'm. I'm gonna go on my rant. North American design magazines tend to look very much the same. There's not always a lot of risk taking with design. And I really appreciate magazines where like Dwell will do this, where things that are a bit outside the box so you're not just opening this and being. I don't know, this is like another Instagram or Pinterest page. Home and Garden UK is very London maximalist or very like, like English Garden. And I feel very transported when I

Host/Advertiser (36:14)

look at those magazines.

Carly Waters (36:15)

And they also inspire me to take more creative choices in my own wardrobe or home. And so I'm very much into things where I really just don't want to feel like I'm also on Pinterest or I'm also on Instagram. I want to make like a design or home magazine that's going to take me somewhere else. That's very important to me.

Cece Lira (36:31)

Yeah.

Carly Waters (36:31)

In terms of more literary magazines if I'm traveling or I just know that I like, maybe want to do some like, reading from a magazine. Harper's Magazine. Like the Harper's Magazine Yeah, same Vanity Fair.

Cece Lira (36:43)

Yeah.

Carly Waters (36:43)

And then a Canadian reference would be the Walrus. So, like, if I was going on. So good. Yeah. If I'm going on a trip, like, and I'm going to, you know, in the airport, you know, going to the magazine stand, I'm grabbing all of that. That's my full list.

Cece Lira (36:55)

I love those last three that you said. They're. They're also favorites of mine. I also love Psychology Today, unsurprisingly, guys, I love Psychology magazine. I don't agree with a lot of their takes, but I actually don't mind that listening. I like reading about things I don't agree with because I want to, like, logic check their logic. You know, Like, I want to go through. Explain to me how you got there. I might not agree, but I have, like, I want to understand. To me, that's a very important critical thinking exercise. My guilty pleasure is Town and Country. I adore Town and Country. It is so good. First of all, it's so well written, like, excellent writing on a light level. And then it has. I have my. My most recent edition here. I subscribe. Guys, these are the headlines. Miami's Private school meltdown. Come on. You want to read about this? I don't know what the meltdown is.

Carly Waters (37:39)

I haven't read it yet.

Cece Lira (37:40)

But, like, this sounds good. Inside a Fifth Avenue fight Club. I want to read this. You know, hate to break it to you. It's your plane. They, like. Like a private plane. Private plane, guys, come on. I get to live in a world where people have private planes, and that is very different from my world. So it is just. Yeah, this is my guilty pleasure.

Carly Waters (38:00)

I love it.

Cece Lira (38:01)

Just have the most fun. The most fun.

Carly Waters (38:03)

That's a great list. And I love how committed we are to print media. I'm totally committed, and I will definitely be buying all of these all the time, as many as I can. I only have, so. I used to also have a subscription to the New Yorker, but since I've had a subscription to the New York Times, I don't read the New Yorker anymore. So I kind of did an either or there.

Cece Lira (38:20)

Okay. Yeah, I love the New Yorker, but their print is getting really small, and my eyesight. Not the best. I have to go to the doctor. Whatever. I'm getting old. I'm getting old.

Host/Advertiser (38:30)

Okay.

Carly Waters (38:30)

And the last thing on our list for today was a listener question. Cece, do you want to paraphrase our listener question? Sure.

Cece Lira (38:37)

And I apologize to the listener because I can't find your dm, but I remember reading it, or else I would be reading it verbatim. But you asked something to the effect of, I have had multiple trusted beta readers read and love my work, but I'm not getting full requests. Why is it that my beta readers love something but agents clearly don't? And I remember the person wrote a little, little, little ender saying, you know, I appreciate if you could chat about this on Shoot the Shit. Generally speaking, I know you can speak to my specific situation. They were very thoughtful in the way they worded it, saying, you know, they weren't asking about their thing. They were asking like, hey, how come beta readers love something but then agents don't. You know, aren't we all readers? So, yeah, I think it's a great question.

Carly Waters (39:14)

It is a great question. I mean, my first instinct to that answer is an agent doesn't think they can sell it it because it could be a great book, but an agent has to sell the book. And those are very different things. I enjoy things all the time. I actually, I have a couple things I've been sitting on for a little while in my slush pile, requested manuscripts where I really like them, and I'm having a really hard time rejecting them because I really like them. But as an agent, I have to think, how am I going to sell this? And if I can't confidently go and pitch this thing, then, you know, I'm not the right agent for it. So that's kind of the. The quick and dirty answer.

Cece Lira (39:51)

So for me, I think, building off what you said, I think that it has to do with the fact that beta readers aren't salespeople. Your beta readers don't sell. And so when they are reading something and they're offering notes, it's similar to an academic setting where an instructor is reading a student's work. You are, you know, your job is to give them feedback within the scope of what they've created. And you're not really putting this work side by side against other works and deciding who wins a prize or who's better or that's not what you're doing. You know, it's not a competitive situation. Like, everyone can get an A theoretically. I also have seen. I think this is important to say, and I'm obviously not saying it's happening in this case, but a lot of beta readers aren't being fully honest. You know, I've seen a lot of people share beta reader feedback where there's a lot of sugar coating, a lot of complimenting, a lot of, like, it's like Heapfuls of spoons of sugar. And then there are lines about improving. But I. And I wonder, I wonder how, how easy it is for a writer to like, I guess, sift through all that, you know, really complimentary feedback, which probably well intentioned, but I'm not sure it's super helpful. Like, I do think that it's important to always, you know, say something nice about a work and there's always something positive. And I understand wanting to be positive, but unless you're like a cheerleader. I do believe in cheerleader critique partners. Partners. Unless you're a cheerleader. Yeah, I don't, I don't know to me, to me that that's often behind it, you know, like if the beta readers were to all of a sudden say, hey, would you invest money in this? And, you know, if you don't, you lose money. Like, I don't think they would say yes is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, like they wouldn't. They. It is easier to compliment something than it is to criticize something. And that's something that it's important for people to.

Carly Waters (41:35)

To remember.

Cece Lira (41:36)

And beta readers are still very important.

Carly Waters (41:39)

Something can still be the best version of itself and still not be able to crack through. And I think that's the hard thing for people to understand is that you might have written your story to the best of your ability or the best way that that story is able to be told. And it's still not going to become a book. And that's a really hard thing for people to hear.

Host/Advertiser (41:55)

It is.

Cece Lira (41:56)

It's very hard. We do believe in being honest, though. And so, you know, most, most manuscripts don't become books. I don't like that. I wish most did, but they don't.

Narrator/Outro (42:05)

Okay.

Cece Lira (42:06)

I don't like that. We're ending on a side note.

Carly Waters (42:08)

I was gonna say, what uplifting message can we. Can we leave everybody with here today?

Cece Lira (42:14)

Oh, my God. I don't know. What is the uplifting message, Carly? Should we talk about the Miami's private school meltdown? Let's talk about that.

Carly Waters (42:26)

I believe that our listeners can handle it. I believe that our listeners are experiencing spring. It is March, church, you know, the. The sun is shining. We'll be able to get outside a bit more. So, yeah, I think life in general, you know, is starting to wake up. So we believe in you guys. We know that you can have a positive ending to this episode.

Cece Lira (42:44)

Yes. Wait, I have a final question on Sunday, because by the time this airs, it's already Monday, but we're you know, right now it's Wednesday. On Sunday, the clocks change and daylight savings begin. I am not asking how you feel about the switch, like, the act of springing forward. I'm asking how you feel about daylight savings.

Carly Waters (43:01)

Like, being.

Cece Lira (43:02)

Being in a time zone. Is that even what it is? Where it's later, like. Like it's sunnier? Like, how do you feel about daylight savings? Not the switch, just the concept.

Host/Advertiser (43:13)

Yeah.

Carly Waters (43:13)

I mean, I think we can be done with it. I think there's places that are getting rid of it. Isn't British Columbia getting rid of it?

Cece Lira (43:18)

I think they're doing daylight savings and then not going back, and they're always going to be in daylight savings. Yeah, it's different.

Carly Waters (43:23)

Yeah.

Cece Lira (43:23)

My. My question is, are you pro. Because I pro.

Carly Waters (43:26)

More daylight.

Cece Lira (43:27)

I count the days until it's lighter out in the evening. I know it's darker in the morning. To all the morning people out there, I am very sorry, truly.

Carly Waters (43:37)

She does not care about you. I.

Cece Lira (43:40)

Listen, here's. Here's the thing. I'm struggling to understand this. Are you a baker? No. Then why are you up in the morning? You know, you're not baking bread. Seriously, you're not baking bread. Oh, I have to be up in the morning. If you have to. If you're being compelled to for some reason, professional, etcetera, Then you're not in a good mood anyway. So what's a little bit more darkness to your bad mood, you know?

Carly Waters (43:58)

Yeah.

Cece Lira (43:59)

The world is built for you. Morning people get everything in this life. Morning people always win. Everything is built for them. This is the one thing that night owls get. I love walking after dinner. Walking in the dark is horrible. It is dangerous. It's. It's. It's. It's bad for your mental health. Like, love daylight savings. I love longer evenings.

Narrator/Outro (44:19)

Love, love.

Carly Waters (44:19)

All right, well, let's end on that lovely rant about how much we love daylight, and we will see you guys all next week.

Narrator/Outro (44:26)

Cece Lira is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you'd like to query Cece, please refer to the submission guidelines@www.wsherman.com. carly Waters is a literary agent at P.S. literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency.