Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Episode: Shooting the Shit About Winning Author Mindsets and Agent Submission Timelines
Hosts: Carly Watters & CeCe Lyra
Date: November 3, 2025

Overview

This episode focuses on the realities of being an emerging writer, understanding recent publishing trends, agent submission timelines, interpreting industry “truths,” and maintaining a productive author mindset. Carly and CeCe, two experienced literary agents, candidly discuss ups and downs in the book business, offer nuanced industry advice, dissect listener questions, and address scams targeting authors. Expect a thoughtful, honest, and often humorous exploration of what it takes to thrive as a writer today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Industry Gossip and Personal Updates

[00:02 – 04:31]

• CeCe laments missing Carly in Ottawa due to work events (Carly will be in L.A. for industry meetings). Cue playful banter about travel, weather preferences, and sun hats, setting the chatty, friendly tone of the show.
• Carly details the purpose of her L.A. trip: TV/film meetings, catching up with co-agents, visiting major agencies (UTA, CAA, WME), meetings at Netflix, client dinners, and maintaining a wellness-fitness routine.
  • Memorable moment: “I got a laser facial last week…so I do have to wear lots of sunscreen and my big sun hat… so I will be very protected.” – Carly [01:12]

Takeaway: The life of a literary agent extends far beyond reading manuscripts; networking and wellness are part of the business.

2. Q3 Publishing Trends & Sales Update

[04:31 – 08:09]

• State of the Print Book Market: Circana (formerly Bookscan) reports a 1% decline in print book sales from last year, in line with Q2 results.
  • Adult fiction is the largest contributor to the decline due to "normalization" in sales.
  • Romance and thrillers are hardest hit genres.
• Children's Book Market: Slight growth, especially in nonfiction, notably infant/toddler books; middle grade is the most challenged segment.
  • Parents prioritize educational buys for kids over discretionary adult purchases in a rocky economy.
  • Quote: “Parents will spend less on themselves and more on their kids… thank you… for reading to your kids.” – CeCe [07:01]
• Ups and Downs are Normal: Both agents stress that fluctuation in sales is part of the business cycle.
• Call to Action: Turn non-readers into readers to grow the market.

Memorable quote:
"I'm singularly propping up the children's book market with the amount of books I buy." – Carly [07:27]

3. Personalized Agent Feedback & Its Interpretation

[08:09 – 13:11]

• A listener asks if personalized feedback from a junior agent means anything significant.
• CeCe: Feedback is always a good sign and a rare gift—agents, regardless of seniority, only provide it when a project has promise.
  • It’s not an agent's job to offer feedback (unlike with real estate or talent agents).
  • Quote: "When feedback is offered, that's a gift. Gift that you can choose to receive or not, but it is a gift." – CeCe [09:18]
• Carly: As a junior agent, she gave more feedback to build goodwill (“rapport”), but only when she truly had helpful notes.
  • “If they liked it that much, why didn’t they offer on it? So it usually is just kindness.” – Carly [11:39]
• Insider Preview: The upcoming January Deep Dive (2026) will feature an agent on interpreting agent responses—especially 'no's and 'maybes'.
  • “You heard it here first. It’s going to be awesome.” – CeCe [12:28]

4. Newsletter Highlights (For Paid Subscribers)

[15:18 – 17:16]

• Books with Hooks: Written critiques and Q&A with Brian Schaefer on building a writing network.

• Author Essays: On agility vs. fixed ideas (Kendra Brokius), writing a second book before selling the first (Brisa Carlton).

• Video Advice: Heather Gunninkoff on using setting to create mood and reveal secrets.

• Quote: “Your ideas aren't as precious as your agility.” – Kendra Brokius, as relayed by CeCe [16:34]

5. Agent Submissions to Editors: Timelines & Strategies

[17:16 – 25:28]

• Optimal Timing Concerns: Listener asks about when to submit to editors—holidays, summer, fall, etc.
• Carly’s Take:
  • Avoid submitting Thanksgiving through New Year’s—it’s a slow period, and key meetings may be canceled.
  • Prime window: January–May (editors are at their desks, fewer holidays).
  • Summer Fridays make June–Labor Day slower, but editors are still generally working.
• CeCe’s Strategy:
  • Prefers personal contact before subbing (meetings/calls). Excitement from an editor trumps timing.
  • In some “quiet” periods, volume is down—junior editors may still be eager to buy, so exceptions exist.
  • Custom strategies for every client/project.
• Key Insight: No formula; each submission strategy is tailored, and the business remains fluid.

Memorable moment:
"This is why agents are not robots... you actually want a human being on the other side of the desk because it's fluid. It's a dance." – CeCe [20:48]

6. Submission List Size: Go Big or Small?

[25:28 – 26:24]

• There's no single answer—genre and specific project dictate the approach.
• Some agent strategies remain "trade secrets."

7. "Good News Comes Fast; Bad News Lingers": Industry Myths Debunked

[26:31 – 39:51]

• Listener shares an article ("No News Is Bad News" by Devin Halliday) arguing good news comes quickly, and waiting usually equals a 'no.'
• CeCe polled agent peers: Strong consensus that "it depends"—good and bad news can come fast or slow; plenty of exceptions.
• CeCe’s Contrarian Philosophy:
  "The publishing industry is an industry of exceptions... Every product is a unique product. Every editor is unique... Trying to find consistent truths isn’t helpful." [28:55]
• Carly agrees: No simple formulas—articles can comfort, but each submission journey is unique. Optimism is essential for survival in publishing.
  • Quote: "This industry does not exist with pessimism. It only exists with optimism." – Carly [31:31]
• Submission Deaths:
  • The “first death” is when you accept your project probably won’t sell; the “second death” is when the final rejection arrives (or is ghosted).
• Mindset Matters:
  • Perseverance is practical, but don’t let hope stifle new work. Stay focused on what you can control—keep writing and moving forward.

Memorable analogy:
"In order to win... you need to sometimes get new cards... focus on your cards, your game... The wild card is the good news that could come... at any moment." – CeCe [35:03]

8. Handling Rejection as Both Agent and Author

[39:51 – 40:58]

• Agents deal with even more rejections (across all clients) and must maintain optimism constantly.
• "Rejection hurts no matter what... you have to love this so much that the rejection becomes just, you know, growing pains." – CeCe [40:40]

9. Reader/Listener Questions Housekeeping

[40:58 – 41:35]

• Q&A sessions for the main podcast have ended. Listeners can now DM Carly or CeCe directly or comment on 'Shooting the Shit' social reels for future questions.

10. Scam Alert: ChatGPT/AI Marketing Offers

[41:35 – 44:13]

• Authors are receiving AI-generated marketing "service offers" (often just jacket copy run through ChatGPT).
• Initially seemed harmless—now confirmed some are scams that ask for money.
• Warning: "Please do all of your research... make sure you're dealing with an actual human and not a bot that is going to steal your money." – Carly [44:03]
• CeCe: “I would like AI to come do my dishes... I do not need AI to be doing this. So unsubscribe.” [43:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Industry Trends: "Ups and downs are a part of sales, whether it's in any market." – CeCe [07:39]
• On Feedback: "No agent is going to spend time offering feedback... if you are, be very proud. It's rare." – CeCe [09:05]
• On Submission Timing: "Most of us just have our butts in our chairs all year long." – Carly [24:10]
• On Publishing 'Rules': "Every book is unique. Every product is unique." – CeCe [28:58]
• On Industry Mindset: "Rejection is the norm. Most people are rejected." – CeCe [36:30]
• On Agent Resilience: “We feel all these rejections for all of these clients… remain optimistic for everything… putting our time, energy, reputation on the line.” – Carly [39:53]

Timestamps (Segment Guide)

• 00:02 – Host banter, travel stories, personal updates
• 04:31 – Q3 book sales industry update
• 08:09 – Personalized feedback from agents
• 13:11 – (Ad break omitted)
• 15:18 – Newsletter content roundup
• 17:16 – Timing for agent submissions to editors
• 25:28 – Big or small submission lists?
• 26:31 – "Good news comes fast" industry myth discussion
• 39:51 – The agent's perspective on rejection
• 40:58 – Listener questions format change
• 41:35 – AI/chatbot marketing scams
• 44:13 – Wrap-up; upcoming LA-focused episode tease

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a window into the nuanced, rapidly changing world of publishing. There are no easy answers, but Carly and CeCe break down complex realities with empathy, humor, and a call for perseverance. The industry, they stress, is built on exceptions—not rules—so the most valuable author mindset is one that’s agile, persistent, and able to weather uncertainty.

Connect with the hosts:

• CeCe Lyra: Queries via wsherman.com (see submission guidelines)
• Carly Watters: Opinions her own, not necessarily those of PS Literary Agency

Next episode preview: Live(ish) from LA, with a likely TV/film industry focus. Tune in Mondays for new episodes or visit the show's socials to engage!