Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode Title: Shooting the Shit About Your Deepest and Darkest Book Money Questions: PART ONE
Date: December 22, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra

Overview

In this episode, Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra dig into the often taboo but critical topic of money in publishing, responding candidly to a slew of anonymously submitted listener questions about advances, royalties, the business of writing, and what it’s really like to work as an agent or an author in today’s industry. They emphasize transparency, share statistical insights, dispel myths, and provide practical advice for writers who want to better understand the industry's financial realities. Throughout, they bring humor, personality, and unfiltered honesty to a subject many consider off-limits.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Talking Openly About Money in Publishing

• Bianca introduces the theme and format of the episode, stressing the importance of honest, open conversations about money in the industry—especially for women and creatives.
• CeCe discusses the cultural taboos around money and her firm belief in demystifying financial conversations:

  "I love money. I'm unapologetic about the fact that I love money. ... Talking about the thing that drives all the forces around us is essential." (CeCe, 03:46)

2. Advances and Deal Terms: What Do the Numbers Really Mean?

• Carly walks through recent Publisher's Marketplace data (08:52) to break down “six-figure” deals and clarifies the terminology used:
  • Major deal: $500,000 and up
  • Significant deal: $250,000–$499,999
  • Good deal: $100,000–$249,999
• Out of 140 six-figure deals reported in one quarter, most “major” deals went to fiction and nonfiction, with children’s books representing a tiny fraction.
• Publishers Marketplace data is incomplete; many deals go unreported or lack exact figures for privacy reasons.

Notable Quote

"The data that we have access to...is mostly what I'm going to reference a lot is going to be the Publishers Marketplace data, which is where agents report deals. There's...agents that don't report deals."
(Carly, 06:21)

3. How Are Royalties Structured?

• CeCe explains the mechanics and logic behind royalty escalators (15:07):
  • Royalty rates can increase as more copies sell (e.g., from 10% to 12.5% to 15% for hardcover sales).
  • Negotiation can vary widely by agent, publisher, and book format.

Notable Quote

"One of the things we always say [in negotiation] is, hey, when it comes to the hardcover...we want escalators on those royalties."
(CeCe, 15:07)

4. Can Writing Be a Job? How Do Authors Make a Living?

• Most authors cannot support themselves entirely on advances and royalties; side work is typical.
• Teaching writing, offering courses, freelance editing, speaking, and related work are frequent strategies.
• Bianca’s own path as a writing instructor is highlighted.
• Carly notes she provides a course module specifically about diversifying author income.

Memorable Moment

"It's not common...for the average author to be able to make enough money from their advances and from their royalties to support their lifestyle. ... Teaching creative writing is an excellent way to supplement income."
(CeCe, 16:27)

5. Are Agents Jealous of Each Other?

• Listener asks if agents experience envy or regret when they pass on projects that become successful.
• Carly and CeCe discuss emotional nuance:
  • Carly: “I don’t feel a lot of jealousy or envy…I really like, I do have to keep some blinders on. And so if I think that something is not right for me in that moment, the fact that it becomes a bestseller, does that change my mind?” (Carly, 19:03)
  • CeCe distinguishes between jealousy (insecurity) and envy (dissatisfaction with own life), and stresses importance of focusing inward rather than comparing.

Notable Quote

“I chose this career because I wanted to do something that I loved. ...If I sign something I don't love, even if it's going to be lucrative, I'm going to lose the magic.”
(CeCe, 20:20)

6. How Do Agents Prioritize Clients?

• Prioritization is mostly about urgency and active projects, not client earnings.
• Tasks are triaged according to what requires the agent’s attention (offers, contracts, subrights), not by who makes the most money (Carly’s “triage triangle” at 25:28).
• CeCe values mindset, productivity, and client commitment over short-term revenue:

  "Talent is the floor...what you also need...is the right mindset." (CeCe, 24:43)

• Letting go of a client is generally only about commitment to writing, not earnings.

7. Is a Big Advance Good, or Dangerous?

• Big advances are a signal (though not a guarantee) of publisher investment and may mean more attention, but they can also make “earning out” harder, influencing an author’s future contract terms.
• Not earning out does not automatically mean failure; many factors affect an author's trajectory.
• Most authors, when actually offered large sums, choose the bigger advance.

Notable Quote

"I can promise you that I've seen situations where the author did not earn out their advance and then they went on to have another deal...for a great amount of money...It's nuanced."
(CeCe, 33:13)

8. Is Literary Agenting a Lucrative and/or Stable Career?

• It can be both a gamble and lucrative; success is not guaranteed or as stable as traditional careers (like law), but the upside can be high.
• Self-reported data: a wide range of agent earnings, with a substantial number earning six figures and above (Carly, 38:24).
• Stability is less certain; high earnings depend on luck, skill, and the unpredictable nature of the market.

Notable Quote

"Something can be both a gamble and a lucrative career...Agenting is very lucrative. I would not be doing it if it weren't lucrative. As has been established before, I like money."
(CeCe, 36:33)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• CeCe on money taboos:

  "I love money. I'm unapologetic about the fact that I love money." (03:46)

• Carly on advances data:

  “It is the place where agents report deals and information. And so it might be something that you kind of want to check out on your own as well.” (09:58)

• CeCe on knowing your value:

  “Talent is the floor...what you also need...is the right mindset. You need to be someone who does not stop, who keeps producing, who knows how to take notes and run with notes and improve your work.” (24:43)

• Carly on career outlook:

  “There’s a lot of agents out there making a lot of money...it definitely can be lucrative. It’s just...not to say that everybody can be lucrative at it.” (35:10)

• CeCe on stability:

  “If the question is stable, then no. ...That stability, that predictability does not exist in agenting.” (36:33)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:49] – Discussing the taboo of money, transparency, and open conversations
• [06:07]–[13:49] – Deep dive into advances, deal reporting, Publishers Marketplace data, and how “six figures” are defined
• [15:07] – Explaining royalty structures and escalators
• [16:27] – Can writing actually be a full-time job? Supplemental income strategies for writers
• [18:50]–[23:36] – The psychology of envy/jealousy among agents and how client prioritization works
• [29:10]–[33:13] – Is a big advance good or risky? Nuances of earning out and deal negotiations
• [34:04]–[39:42] – Is agenting lucrative, or a gamble? ALA survey data; stability vs. income
• [39:53] – Wrap-up; preview of Part Two

Tone & Style

The hosts are candid, conversational, and occasionally irreverent—willing to debunk myths, share genuine feelings about the financial realities of publishing, and give listeners practical wisdom without sugarcoating. The episode is both empowering for writers and refreshingly blunt about a topic so often shrouded in secrecy.

For Further Information

• Publisher’s Marketplace: https://www.publishersmarketplace.com/
• Substack newsletter reference for further queries and professional resources.
• Bianca Marais’s and Carly Watters’s courses and resources mentioned for writers seeking more concrete tools and strategies.

Next Episode:
Stay tuned for Part Two – with even more listener questions about book money, coming soon!