Podcast Summary: “Shooting the Shit About Your Deepest and Darkest Book Money Questions PART TWO”

Podcast: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Air Date: January 5, 2026
Episode Focus: Money & the Business Side of Writing – Advances, Royalties, Agent Finances, Publisher Decisions, Marketing Money, and more.

Episode Overview

This lively and candid episode continues the hosts’ deep dive into the nitty-gritty of money in publishing, answering real listener questions about advances, royalties, agent compensation, multi-book deals, marketing budgets, celebrity endorsements, and industry trends. The hosts, two veteran literary agents (Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra), pull back the curtain on financial realities for authors, sharing personal anecdotes and industry wisdom with honesty and a sense of humor. Emerging writers get practical advice and a better understanding of where the money goes (or doesn’t).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How and When Does Money Flow After Signing a Publishing Deal?

(04:16–08:03)

• Misconceptions About Timing:
  • Many first-time authors believe money arrives quickly after a deal. In reality, delays are standard—advance payments are split into several installments (signing, delivery & acceptance of edits, publication, sometimes even later).
    • CeCe: “The biggest misconception might be how much time everything takes... You get paid the first installment after the contract is signed, but that can take a long time.” (04:41)
  • Sometimes advances are paid in “fourths” or even “fifths” (one payment a year after publication or after the trade paperback).
• Delivery & Acceptance:
  • Carly: “People really focus on that first word—delivery... but the second is acceptance. Acceptance means the publisher has accepted your manuscript after all edits—sometimes months after delivery.” (06:26)
  • Payment schedules vary widely and can cause significant financial uncertainty for authors.

2. Why Isn’t Advance Money Held in Escrow?

(08:03–08:45)

• CeCe’s Wish: Advance money is kept by publishers (who earn interest on it) rather than being put in escrow for authors’ benefit.
  • Quote: “I've always wished we could have an escrow situation like that—it's always bugged me. The money should be in escrow earning interest for the author.” (08:03)
• Reality: Not enough bargaining power on the author’s side; unlikely to happen.

3. Big Money Deals—The Taylor Jenkins Reid Question

(09:06–10:45)

• Ethics & Privacy: Carly declines to comment on the specifics of a famous author’s deal out of respect and professional confidentiality.
  • Quote: “I feel very protective of her. She is a famous person... out of respect I am not going to talk about her.” (09:33)

4. Are Two-Book Deals Better Than One-Book?

(10:45–15:26)

• It Depends:
  • CeCe: “A lot of writers hear ‘two-book deal’ and think that is superior...that’s not how it works necessarily.” (10:52)
  • Downsides include being locked in at a set price if you break out, or being required to deliver again to a publisher you may not want to stick with (e.g., if your editor leaves).
  • Sometimes publishers cancel the second book if the first underperforms—rare, but possible.
  • Some writers find the “guaranteed” contract comforting, especially after a stressful debut.
• Strategic Considerations:
  • Multi-book deals often make sense for series, but not always for standalones or uncertain publisher relationships.
• Joint vs. Separate Accounting:
  • Carly: “Joint accounting is when the entire advance is a bucket for all titles in the deal—you don’t get royalties until the whole amount is earned out... Separate accounting means each book is responsible for itself. Generally, separate accounting is better for most authors.” (14:18)

5. Agent Money: How Long Before an Agent Earns a Living?

(16:00–18:12)

• Agent Timeline:
  • Carly began agenting in 2010; didn’t sell her first book until 2011; initial years brought little or no income.
  • Growth can “double” fast if successful, but remains unpredictable due to publishing’s payment structures.
    • Carly: “I made $0 year one, maybe $0 year two... then $10K, then $20K, then $40K, then $70K, then $140K. It honestly doubled for a while.” (16:00)

6. Do Celebrities Get Paid to Endorse Books? The Anne Hathaway Example

(18:18–21:01)

• Behind the Scenes:
  • Anne Hathaway promoted a debut novel, but that’s because she’s starring in and producing the adaptation—not because the publisher paid her to endorse.
    • Carly: “It’s not that Penguin paid Anne to do it. Anne Hathaway wants this book to do really well because she’s producing the movie.” (18:32)
• Industry Takeaway:
  • Publishing decisions and publicity sometimes look mysterious/outlandish from the outside, but often make sense within a larger business ecosystem.

7. How Much Should Debut Authors Spend on PR/Marketing?

(23:06–27:16)

• Budget Realities:
  • PR campaigns for book launches can cost $10,000–$20,000 for a “really active campaign.”
  • Authors need to decide what’s effective—randomly spending a bit here and there usually won’t move the needle.
    • Carly: “If you want to hire PR, set aside a percentage of your advance... These campaigns are expensive. You only launch your debut once.” (23:18)
  • Talk with your agent/publisher about what they will or won't provide, and be strategic.
• Financial Privilege:
  • CeCe: “If you are able to think of the advance as money to reinvest in your business, that’s a good thing... but it absolutely gives a leg up to those with financial privilege. That is reality.” (26:01)

8. Is It Delusional to Believe Your Book Has Million-Dollar Potential?

(27:16–30:29)

• Faced With Statistics:
  • Most books/authors do not make millions—but every book could, theoretically.
    • CeCe: “If by ‘potential’ you mean it’s possible, then, no, you’re not delusional… If you mean ‘it for sure will happen,’ then probably, yes.” (27:40)
  • Fortune sometimes does favor the bold—some delusional people do succeed, and some fail spectacularly.

9. Do Advances Trend Based on Genre Popularity?

(30:29–34:23)

• Market Forces:
  • Advances are driven by competition, current trends, and genre popularity—but also publisher-specific factors.
    • Carly: “Generally what advances depend on most is competition. If there’s a lot of interest, that drives the advance up.” (30:44)
• Subjectivity:
  • Publisher’s perception of a book (lead title or not?) greatly influences the offer.
  • Wide disparities possible in auctions because of these subjective assessments.
    • CeCe: “Publishers love their backlist that they didn’t pay a lot for when the book does well.” (32:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Money Flow Timing:
  • CeCe Lira (04:41): “The misconception is that once you accept an offer, you can count on money coming in. It takes a long time…”
• On Advance Installments Escrow:
  • CeCe Lira (08:03): “I always wish we could have an escrow situation. That money should be in escrow, earning interest for the author.”
• On Two-Book Deals:
  • CeCe Lira (10:52): “Two is not necessarily superior to one in this context. It is actually one of those situations where… it depends.”
  • Carly Watters (14:18): “Joint accounting—such a sexy topic. Joint accounting is when in a two-book deal... you don’t get royalties until you’ve earned out the entire lump sum.”
• On PR/Marketing Spend:
  • Carly Watters (23:18): “Have a real focus. Don’t just throw money around…these campaigns can be $10,000–$20,000...”
  • CeCe Lira (26:01): “Financial privilege often leads to more success. That is so unfair. And it’s also so reality. Not talking about it doesn’t help.”
• On Million-Dollar Books:
  • CeCe Lira (27:40): “Every book has million-dollar potential… If you’re thinking ‘I will for sure make a million dollars’, then most likely, yes, you are being delusional. But fortune favors the bold.”

Important Timestamps

• [04:16] – Advances: installments, timing, misconceptions
• [06:26] – Delivery & acceptance: what they really mean for payments
• [08:03] – CeCe’s escrow rant
• [09:06] – Big deals (Taylor Jenkins Reid) & agent ethics
• [10:52] – The truth about 2-book deals
• [14:05] – Joint vs. separate accounting
• [16:00] – An agent’s first salary: how long it takes
• [18:32] – Celebrity endorsements and marketing investments
• [23:18] – Real numbers on PR/marketing budgets
• [26:01] – Privilege and success in publishing
• [27:40] – Is million-dollar book success reasonable?
• [30:44] – Do advances trend based on genre/popularity?
• [32:16] – How subjective publisher perceptions shape deals

Episode Tone and Takeaways

The hosts remain honest, no-nonsense, and encouraging—but never sugarcoat tough financial realities. They blend practical advice with industry gossip and hard-learned lessons, all while keeping the tone light, funny, and accessible. The big message: Knowledge is power, publishing money is never simple or fair, but asking questions and arming yourself with information helps.

Useful For:

• Writers (especially debuts) confused about advances, royalties, and publishing finances
• Anyone wondering about the business side of being a literary agent
• Writers considering how (and if) to invest in their own book marketing
• Creatives seeking transparency about publishing industry deals and pitfalls

End of Summary