Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: Shooting the Shit...Live from Hawaii! Turning Down Offers & Working with Your Literary Agent
Hosts: Carly Watters & CeCe Lyra
Date: November 17, 2025
Listener Audience: Emerging writers and those interested in the publishing process, with a focus on author-agent relationships and the realities of the book industry.

Episode Overview

In this lively, candid episode, literary agents Carly Watters (in snowy Canada) and CeCe Lyra (calling in from sunny Kauai, Hawaii) share travel mishaps, celebrate career milestones, and, most importantly, dive into nuanced discussions about the tough decisions facing authors: notably, when to turn down a publishing offer, how to work most effectively with your agent, pitching your own work to film/TV, and the roles of AI in the querying landscape. They also react to current publishing trends and offer grounded advice on keeping a long-term, strategic perspective as a writer.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hosting Live: Travel Stories, Book Talk, & Anniversary

[01:33–05:28]

• Carly's snowbound return from LA, failed attempt to sleep on a red eye, and emotional reaction to the book "Broken Country."

• CeCe’s lost luggage adventure (half arrived in Kauai, half took an unexpected detour to LA).

• Casual critical analysis of "Broken Country’s" ending—no spoilers, but both hosts share their preferences and debate character choices.

  • Notable Quote:
    • "It's not that I hated him, but...I don't like that man's excuse. And he felt like a mama's boy." — CeCe ([05:20])

• Carly marks her 15th anniversary as a literary agent.

2. The Difficult Decision: When Authors Turn Down Publishing Offers

[05:28–12:53]

• Carly draws on her 15 years in agenting to demystify why and when authors might refuse a publishing offer, even when it seems risky.
• Discusses scenarios: auctions with multiple offers, option clauses, changes in the editor relationship, the importance of “career vision,” and the uncertainty of “market value.”
  • Notable Quote:
    • "We don't have crystal balls...it comes down to a lot of things. It's that career vision." — Carly ([05:57])
• CeCe underscores the importance of authors not accepting offers out of fear and assessing true motivations:
  • "An offer is not a gift. It's not charity. It's not a favor...You have to value yourself, and it can't come from a place of fear." — CeCe ([09:11])
  • Balancing risk tolerance, realistic goal-setting, and the lack of guarantees in publishing.
• Both stress the value of deciding on your position regarding an offer before emotions are heightened by actual numbers or deadlines:
  • "Being strong in your conviction before the offer comes in is usually the best way to get yourself in the right headspace for what’s to come." — Carly ([11:26])
  • CeCe likens this to her investing approach: set rational targets in advance to outwit the pressure of the moment. ([12:19])

3. Writer-Agent Collaboration: Pitching for TV/Film Rights

[12:53–15:55 & 19:46–20:49]

• Listener question: Should an author ever pitch their own book for film/TV if their agent/agency isn’t strong in that department?
  • Carly’s legal/etiquette advice: Always read your representation agreement—film/TV rights are subrights usually routed through the agency, and communication with your agent is essential.
    • "You can't do this without talking to your agent." — Carly ([14:03])
    • Any connections or outreach should be discussed transparently—with all money, rights, and permissions flowing through the agency as per contract.
  • CeCe warns that premature or misdirected contact can backfire; urges honesty and partnership:
    • "So much of success with film/TV adaptations is controlling the narrative and reaching out to the right people in the right moment in the right way." — CeCe ([19:46])

4. The Role (and Risks) of AI in Querying & Pitching

[20:50–24:52]

• Thoughtful response to a listener asking if agents would ever use AI to generate pitch letters.
  • CeCe is adamant: “No, I would not consider.”
    • "I don't like outsourcing my brain. I feel very strongly that my critical thinking is one of my greatest assets, and my way of looking at things with my unique perspective sets me apart as an agent, and I don't trust machines to do that for me." — CeCe ([22:15])
  • Carly agrees, comparing it to not letting her human assistant write pitches:
    • "The whole point of us doing these jobs is that we care so deeply about these materials...My goal isn't to pitch more books in a year. My goal is to properly and accurately pitch the books I work on now." — Carly ([23:18])
• Both see AI as a tool for "grunt work," not as a creative surrogate.

5. Industry Trends: HarperCollins’ “Bad Quarter” and the Future of Reading

[24:53–28:33]

• Substack “Why Authors Should Care About HarperCollins's 'bad quarter'” (by Alex at Rising Action) is discussed.
  • Sales of audiobooks fell 11%, ebooks 9%; the market’s fragility and unpredictability are highlighted.
  • Carly’s optimism: Anticipates a coming “analog trend,” with growing dissatisfaction with digital life possibly helping book sales in 2026.
    • "Our biggest competitor is Netflix and our phones and all these other things in the attention economy. [But] I’m really hoping we’re going to see a huge improvement in these numbers." — Carly ([26:37])
    • Tips her 2026 publishing predictions are coming soon.

Memorable Quotes

• CeCe Lira:
  • “An offer is not a gift. It’s not charity. It’s not a favor…You have to value yourself, and it can’t come from a place of fear.” ([09:11])
  • “So much of success with film/TV adaptations is controlling the narrative and reaching out to the right people in the right moment.” ([19:46])
  • “I don’t like outsourcing my brain. I feel very strongly that my critical thinking is one of my greatest assets…I don’t trust machines to do that for me.” ([22:15])
• Carly Watters:
  • “Being strong in your conviction before the offer comes in is usually the best way to get yourself in the right headspace for what’s to come.” ([11:26])
  • “The whole point of us doing these jobs is that we care so deeply about these materials…My goal isn’t to pitch more books in a year. My goal is to properly and accurately pitch the books I work on now.” ([23:18])
  • “[Publishing] is our job to be publishing books that can stand up against all of the other forms of entertainment.” ([26:37])
  • “Always full of optimism, realism—but optimism definitely important to me.” ([28:33])

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:00–01:33 – Deep Dive retreat promo, intros
• 01:33–05:28 – Travel mishaps, “Broken Country” book chat, anniversary
• 05:28–12:53 – Turning down offers: navigating risk, market value, agent-client communication
• 12:53–15:55 – Listener Q&A: TV/film pitching etiquette
• 15:55–19:46 – [Segment break / ads]
• 19:46–20:49 – TV/film adaptation follow-up, importance of collaboration
• 20:50–24:52 – Q&A: AI in publishing, human connection, and creative intuition
• 24:53–28:33 – Substack spotlight: HarperCollins’ quarter, industry trends, optimism for “analog” reading
• 28:33–29:12 – Wrap-up, teasers for 2026 trends, goodbyes

Takeaways

• Turning down a publishing offer is deeply personal, should be fear-free, and is best guided by premeditated clarity about your long-term goals.
• Agent communication is crucial when navigating subsidiary rights, like film and TV—work in partnership, be open with your goals, and read your contracts.
• AI may assist with admin, but the human touch—intuition, connection, and passion—is irreplaceable in creative pitching and agenting.
• The publishing ecosystem is volatile—authors should focus on factors they can control, remain hopeful, and prepare for the long haul.
• Optimism matters: The hosts believe in books’ enduring value and see opportunity even in current downturns, with hopes for an “analog” rebound.

Recommended for:
Writers navigating major career decisions, authors building agent relationships, and anyone invested in current and future realities of publishing. Warm, witty, honest—this episode pulls back the curtain on the tough (but universal) conversations behind each book deal.