Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: The Long Game of Publishing
Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Guests: Marisa Waltz, Olivia Jackson

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the “long game” of publishing—what emerging writers need to know about building a career, enduring rejection, navigating relationships with agents and editors, and managing expectations once published. The show features candid, in-depth conversations with two authors whose recent publishing journeys exemplify the rollercoaster realities behind the scenes, plus practical advice from the hosts—a bestselling author and two literary agents.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marisa Waltz: From Aspiring Writer to Published Debut

Early Writing Aspirations & Family Motivation

• Marisa describes always knowing she wanted to write, but not pursuing a novel seriously until the birth of her son (07:27).

  “I have it recorded in my diary that I'm going to be a famous author one day… I wanted to be a better example for him.” (07:34, Marisa)

The Path to Publication:

• Multiple shelved manuscripts and two rounds of querying—got an agent after her third book, but it died on submission.
• Highlighted the heartbreak of a failed submission:

  “It's absolutely devastating… you have the safety net of agents now, so even if this book died on submission, there are all these stories that keep you going... but, no, no, no, no, no.” (09:52, Marisa)

• Wrote several more books; subsequent manuscripts didn’t resonate with her agents, leading her to change representation.
• Key Advice: Community and mentorship are essential for emotional resilience—having a seasoned writer friend to confide in was pivotal.

Finding the Right Agent & “Good Intentions”

• Marisa enjoyed querying, feeling more confident second time around (12:45).
• Submitted her query to “Books with Hooks” (the show’s segment critiquing query letters/opening pages), and got a new agent just weeks after her episode aired.
• A minor debated feedback about including a “Birkin” bag detail:
  • “Did the Birkin stay or did it get taken out?... It stayed. My editor and nobody else said anything else, so I let it stay.” (14:54, Marisa)

Submission & Sweet Success

• Her new agent submitted “Good Intentions” in June (contrary to conventional wisdom about summer submissions).
• At a tarot reading the weekend after submission, was told, “something huge, career wise is coming for you in the next couple days and it's going to be life changing and you're going to have to make a decision really, really fast. She's like, get ready. Buckle up, buttercup.” (16:15, Tarot Reader, as recounted by Marisa)
• On Monday, St. Martin’s Press editor Sarah Cantin made an offer.

Lessons & Emotional Journey

• The importance of trusting gut feelings during agent selection.
• The long game:

  “Looking back, I always had this feeling from the time I was a little girl that this was gonna happen… it was really just I didn't know when.” (19:14, Marisa)

2. Craft Deep Dive: Process & Style in "Good Intentions"

Line-Level Writing

• Bianca praises Marisa’s sophisticated prose for a debut:

  “This is so assured for a debut. The line level writing is excellent... Is it because of the books that came before that died on submission, or revising this book over and over?” (22:51, Bianca)

• Marisa attributes her skill to prior failed manuscripts, emphasizing nothing is wasted on the journey (23:01).

Unique Point of View: Hybrid Second Person

• Originally drafted in first-person, then shifted to addressing the protagonist’s deceased twin sister (“Dana”)—creating an intense, claustrophobic, almost confessional atmosphere.

  “She needed somebody to open up to, and Dana was gone, but Dana would have been that person... It was safe now to tell Dana because Dana was gone. She couldn't say anything back.” (24:18, Marisa)

• Bianca notes how this avoids the therapy confessional cliché and delivers honesty in narration (25:54).

3. Olivia Jackson: Truths from a Fast-Tracked Debut Author

Debut Publishing Realities

• Entered publishing after years of mistakes and learning, found her agent through critique partners (29:54).
• Sold two books to HarperCollins UK’s 'One More Chapter' in a two-book deal (35:14).
• Faced the unexpected disappointment of a “digital first” imprint:
  • Book only available in the UK at first, not physically in US bookstores—couldn’t do live book events.
  • “My excitement crashed so hard and with it I crashed... I did not fully understand what digital first means.” (33:03, Olivia)

Advice: Ask More Questions & Set Expectations

• Didn’t want to “bother” her agent/editor, was afraid to seem ungrateful or ignorant.
• Now recommends authors demand clear meetings and explanations early:

  “Don't be afraid to be a pain in the neck. That's my advice.” (44:34, Olivia) “I would have asked them to spell it out in the plain English, what to expect.” (41:52)

Social Media & Comparison Trap

• Warns about comparing your launch to the curated, selective highlights of other authors online.
• Many events/launches are paid for and organized by the author, not publisher (39:45, Bianca & Olivia).

  “It might appear that it's all great, but in reality, it's not necessarily that great.” (38:42, Olivia)

Book Two: Improved Communication, Braver Author

• With better contacts and bookstore support, her true “debut” feeling comes with her second book.
• Advocates ongoing education—taking publicity classes, seeking peer advice, and proactively planning events (50:27).

4. The Business Side: Author as Entrepreneur

• The business of writing is distinct from the craft. Success often hinges on self-promotion, continuing education, and assertiveness (51:43).
• Bianca: “There’s a way to do it that is not going to make you come across as difficult… it’s a partnership.” (44:34)
• Advice: Document questions for your publishing team; monthly check-ins are reasonable and valuable.

5. Universal Truths in Publishing

• Control is an illusion: Timelines are unpredictable; hurry up and wait is the norm (53:01).
• Rejection and setbacks are part of the journey: Even “yes” can take years of “no.”
• Find your community: Peer support and writer friends are crucial for perseverance (09:24, Marisa; 29:54, Olivia).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Plot is what happens. Interiority is how your protagonist processes what happens. And psychological acuity is why it matters.” (00:12, CeCe Lyra – mini masterclass on craft)
• “It’s absolutely devastating... there are all these stories that keep you going on and on and, like, doing the crazy work of writing another whole book, not knowing if anything’s ever going to happen.” (09:52, Marisa Waltz)
• “Don’t be afraid to be a pain in the neck. That’s my advice.” (44:34, Olivia Jackson)
• “There’s a way to do it that is not going to make you come across as difficult. And I certainly think that when it comes to an editor as well… it’s showing how invested you are in the book, how much value you want to add.” (46:15, Bianca Marais)
• “The business of writing is different; sitting with your imaginary friends, writing, that’s one thing, but the business side is different.” (51:43, Bianca Marais)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | CeCe Lyra’s craft tip: Writing strong interiority & psychological acuity | | 01:34 | Introduction to episode and guests | | 04:13 | Marisa Waltz reads from "Good Intentions" (chapter one) | | 09:24 | Marisa discusses the emotional toll of a book dying on submission | | 14:54 | The infamous “Birkin bag” debate | | 16:15 | The tarot reading story, and her first book offer | | 22:51 | Bianca and Marisa discuss line-level writing and how previous failures contribute | | 24:18 | Crafting a novel in hybrid second person | | 29:54 | Olivia Jackson on mistakes made finding an agent and learning from critique partners | | 33:03 | The reality of “digital first” publishing and its impact on launches | | 38:42 | Social media realities: comparing launches and curated feeds | | 41:52 | The importance of asking clear questions as a new author | | 44:34 | Olivia’s Rule: Don’t fear being a “pain in the neck” | | 50:27 | Olivia's second book experience with better communication, improved launch, and self-promotion | | 51:43 | The distinction between writing and managing the business of being an author | | 53:01 | Bianca on the “hurry up and wait” reality of the publishing business |

Additional Insights

• Community Matters: Both guests credit critique partners, mentors, and the podcast’s writer community with carrying them through challenges and confusion.
• Embrace the Unpredictable: The road from manuscript to shelf is convoluted, setbacks are normal, and patience is essential.
• Assertiveness Is Not Rudeness: Being clear about your needs and seeking explanations is not only acceptable—it’s essential for professional success.
• Learning Never Stops: Classes, podcasts, and continuing professional development remain crucial throughout one’s career.

Summary Takeaway

This episode demystifies the elusive, nonlinear process of building a writing career—from the crushing setbacks of “books dying on submission,” to the thrill of surprise book deals, to the complexities of digital-first imprints and self-managed launches. Publishing is a marathon, not a sprint; information, community, and professionalism are your best tools. Above all, proactive communication, persistence, and embracing self-advocacy will serve any writer for the long game.

For further resources and links, visit the podcast’s website or check the guests’ Instagram accounts (including the much-discussed tarot reader and book launches at Foxtail!).