THE SHIT NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT WRITING

Episode: "When Writing Gets Personal: Two Authors on Vulnerability and Voice"

Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Cece Lyra, Carly Watters
Guests: Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, Dr. Jonathan Lasseter

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the intersection of vulnerability and voice in creative nonfiction, memoir, and self-help writing. Host/agent Cece Lyra interviews her clients, clinical psychologists and authors Dr. Tracy Dalgleish and Dr. Jonathan Lasseter, exploring their journeys as writers bringing personal stories and difficult truths to the page. The conversation covers the emotional labor, practical challenges, and strategic decisions involved in pitching, writing, and publishing books that are both intimate and socially relevant.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Invisible Work of Authorship

• Dr. Tracy Dalgleish shares how her success is built on years of unseen effort, both alone and in partnership with her husband, who manages behind-the-scenes logistics ([04:15]).
• The misconception that publishing a book happens overnight is dispelled: "What I've done did not just happen in the last two years. We're looking at decades at this point." – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish ([03:48]).

2. Writing Sophomore Books and Evolving Identity

• Tracy discusses the shift from her first, more memoirish book to her new, direct self-help title ("You, Your Husband, and His Mother"), emphasizing her growing confidence as an author ([06:06]).
• She notes being "thrilled and it's hard," experiencing both fulfillment from contribution and restlessness for the next project ([06:06]).

3. The Creative Process: Surrender, Speed, and Support

• Tracy describes writing her second book swiftly, as if "the universe was providing me this book" ([07:24]).
• She references Liz Gilbert's "Big Magic" to illustrate that creative ideas are out there, waiting to be pulled down when writers silence self-doubt ([07:24]).
• The importance of a strong, supportive publishing/editorial team is highlighted, as Tracy transitions between publishers and credits her editor Lauren O’Neill for championing her vision ([14:25]).

4. Relatability and Relevance in Book Concepts

• Cece and Tracy discuss the genesis of "You, Your Husband, and His Mother," noting their surprise at how often in-law conflicts—not money or infidelity—top the list of marital struggles ([15:52]).
• Surveys revealed that while 86% of respondents denied overt in-law conflict, that was because "we want to be liked and accepted into their family...we're probably not going to tell you all of those little paper cuts that have been happening over the years." – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish ([17:14]).

5. Risk, Selection, and the Author-Agent-Editor Match

• Behind-the-scenes stories about agenting, pitching, and ultimately selecting an editor. The value of finding not just any editor but the right one who “gets” the book's vision ([22:32]).
• Auction dynamics and the offer of a preempt are explained in detail, providing insight into trade publishing for listeners ([18:46]).

6. Using Self-Help for Crafting Authentic Characters

• Tracy plugs her book for writers, revealing how chapters on relationship cycles and inner child work can help novelists develop richer, more emotionally resonant characters ([26:48]).

7. The Emotional Demands of Writing Vulnerably

• Tracy describes the hardest part of the process as aggressively short timelines, highlighting the need for family support and the unseen sacrifices authors make ([28:15]).
• "The belief that your story should be told...to believe that your story needs to be told and shared, and then to just keep sharing and talking about it and writing it." – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, on advice for aspiring nonfiction writers ([32:19]).

8. Memorable Quotes – Lightning Round on In-Law Advice

• A fun, rapid-fire segment covers common (and sometimes toxic) mottos about marriage and in-laws. Tracy debunks and nuances cliches with practical, compassionate wisdom ([34:05]).
  • “Never marry a mama’s boy.” – Heard it.
  • “Be the bigger person and not argue with them?” – “I’ve heard that, and I think that feeds into why we get so stuck here…this idea that daughters-in-law should be obedient, and this generation is not following into that.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish ([35:53]).
  • “Watch how he treats his mother, that's how he'll treat you.” – "That depends...there are many situations where mom is on a pedestal, but you are not given that same treatment." ([38:04]).

Segment Timestamp Guide

• [03:41] – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish introduces her background and approach to writing.
• [06:06] – Reflection on the journey from first to second book.
• [07:24] – Tracy on creativity, imposter syndrome, and creative flow.
• [10:59] – Elevator pitch for "You, Your Husband, and His Mother."
• [15:52] – The real #1 cause of marital conflict: in-laws!
• [18:46] – The agenting story: auctions, preempts, and choosing the right editor.
• [24:27] – Who the book is (and isn’t) for—help, not “lighting your torch.”
• [26:48] – How the book’s tools benefit fiction writers.
• [28:15] – Challenges and rewards: family buy-in and tight deadlines.
• [32:19] – Advice for aspiring nonfiction/memoir writers.
• [34:05] – Lightning round: in-law cliches and real therapy wisdom.

Part 2: Dr. Jonathan Lasseter – "How I Know White People Are Crazy and Other Stories"

Key Points and Insights

1. The Search for Representation and Authenticity

• Jonathan's journey started with wanting to write like his intellectual heroes (bell hooks, Cornel West) and Googling "how to get a book on the New York Times bestseller list" ([47:08]).
• The initial query letter to P.S. Literary ended up in the hands of Cece, who became an enthusiastic champion for his work.

2. The Writing and Pitching Process: Learning to Tell Your Story

• Moving from academic to trade prose required reframing—shifting focus from statistics and research to personal narratives and lessons. Cece: "Your voice as a storyteller...it's always been so strong" ([51:19]).
• Jonathan credits his husband, Brian, for strategic support—both as a first reader and in making his proposal visually compelling ([52:57]).

3. The Realities of Publishing: Editors, Imprints, and Flexibility

• Jonathan’s route to publication involved multiple editors and the collapse of an imprint. Lessons in resilience and the necessity to “pivot and adapt” in publishing ([58:13]).
• Cece highlights the necessity of a positive mindset and adaptability: “Publishing will throw you curve boulders, and you have to find a way to not only get out of the way but dance while doing it—and look good” ([61:14]).

4. Publicity, Ambition, and Managing Expectations

• Jonathan hired his own outside PR in addition to the publisher’s resources, learning that “for a chance, you need to bring your own village” and facing the surprise at how much authors have to hustle publicity themselves ([68:32]).
• “If you want to succeed in traditional publishing, you need three things: a talent for storytelling, a talent for writing, and a winning mindset—the hardest to achieve.” – Cece Lyra ([61:14]).

5. On Vulnerability, Honesty, and Social Impact

• Writing memoir and personal essays is emotionally taxing: “After writing [about crisis], I was done for the rest of the day…I was literally on the couch.” – Dr. Jonathan Lasseter ([73:49]).
• Both he and Cece emphasize that compelling nonfiction requires owning imperfection and vulnerability (“No one likes a perfect person. People like messy people.” – Cece Lyra, [73:49]).

6. The Title That Almost Wasn't

• "How I Know White People Are Crazy" faced publisher resistance, almost changing to "We're All Crazy." Jonathan and Cece discuss keeping the bold, honest title after political events underscored its relevance ([77:45]).
  • “In the aftermath of the election, it has become clear to everyone that we are not all crazy. It’s not all of us.” – Dr. Jonathan Lasseter ([80:15])
  • Cece calls this Jonathan's most brilliant move: “Standing ovation for my client here, who’s such a brilliant man anyway.” ([82:39]).

7. Celebrate Every Step, Not Just Big Milestones

• Both authors reflect on the importance of enjoying the journey and not letting rigid goals (e.g. NYT bestseller status) “take away from the parts I can control and the joy of the process” ([63:29]).

8. Book Recommendations and The Power of Perspective

• Jonathan recommends Yellowface: “If you want something that you can immerse yourself in, and it has a really good message about cultural appropriation and publishing…Yellowface is one of the best things I’ve read in the past year.” ([83:41])

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Tracy Dalgleish: “I want to bring forward conversations that people are not having. ... I'm going to take these hard conversations and bring them forward.” ([31:01])
• Cece Lyra: “The thing about publishing is you need three things—a talent for writing, a talent for storytelling, and a winning mindset. …Publishing will throw you curve boulders.” ([61:14])
• Dr. Jonathan Lasseter: “No one likes a perfect person. People like messy people.” ([73:49])

Tone & Style

Playful, candid, and encouraging—hosts and guests are unguarded about the industry’s realities. The episode balances laugh-out-loud moments with reassuring advice and hard truths, making it accessible and reassuring for writers navigating their own personal material.

Takeaways for Listeners/ Emerging Writers

• The path to publication, especially when writing personal or vulnerable work, is filled with unseen effort, hard choices, and emotional labor.
• Support systems—both professional and personal—are essential, as are persistence, adaptability, and faith in your own story.
• Candid, difficult conversations (about family, race, or ambition) are necessary both in life and writing.
• Success in publishing is nonlinear; resilience and the ability to appreciate each accomplishment along the way matter more than any single accolade.
• Pitching your own work—to agents, editors, the public—is a skill and a journey in itself.

Suggested Listening Order & Reference

For those interested in:

• Narrative craft & emotion: Start with Dr. Dalgleish’s segment ([03:41]–[41:08]).
• Industry mechanics/publishing strategy: Pay close attention to the editor/auction chat ([18:46]), agent collaboration stories ([52:57]), and the publicity discussion ([68:32]).
• Bravery & keeping your voice: Focus on Jonathan Lasseter’s experience with vulnerability, titling, and social messaging ([73:49]–[82:39]).
• Practical memoir/craft advice: Lightning round on in-law advice ([34:05]) and writerly takeaways from both guests ([32:19], [63:01]).

For listeners who haven’t heard the episode:
This summary covers both the inspirational and the practical—a masterclass in writing bravely about real life and strategizing success in a complex industry. You'll learn from two different authors and the literary agent who championed them, getting honest advice, support, and a healthy dose of humor along the way.