Arthur Brooks On The Science Of Happiness, Emotional Well-Being, & Setting Boundaries For A Better Life

Summary

The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast: Detailed Summary of "Arthur Brooks On The Science Of Happiness, Emotional Well-Being, & Setting Boundaries For A Better Life"

Release Date: June 23, 2025
Host/Author: Lauryn Bosstick & Michael Bosstick / Dear Media
Guest: Arthur Brooks, Harvard Professor, Bestselling Author, Happiness Scientist

---

Introduction to the Science of Happiness

In this enlightening episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick welcome Arthur Brooks, a renowned Harvard professor and bestselling author, to discuss the intricate science behind happiness. The conversation delves into why true happiness often eludes many, exploring misconceptions and offering actionable insights to enhance emotional well-being.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [00:25]: "In a world that's more connected than ever, why do so many of us feel so disconnected from our purpose, our partners, even ourselves?"

Redefining Happiness

Arthur Brooks begins by challenging the conventional understanding of happiness. Contrary to popular belief, he asserts that happiness is not merely an emotion but comprises three fundamental components: enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. He emphasizes that while feelings are evidence of happiness, they are not synonymous with it.

Key Insights:

• Misconception of Happiness: Many people mistakenly view happiness as a fleeting emotion rather than a sustained state built on deeper foundations.
• Three Pillars of Happiness: Enjoyment of daily life, satisfaction from accomplishments, and a sense of purpose are essential for true happiness.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [01:33]: "Happiness is three things. There's three things you need to dedicate yourself to that you can study scientifically. Enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning."

The Struggle of High Achievers

The conversation transitions to the paradox faced by high achievers who, despite their successes, often grapple with unhappiness. Brooks attributes this to a phenomenon he terms "success addiction," where the relentless pursuit of more success leads to a perpetual state of dissatisfaction.

Key Insights:

• Success Addiction: Similar to other addictions, success addiction is driven by neurochemical rewards, making individuals crave continual achievements.
• Impact of Parenting: Brooks highlights how rewarding children solely for achievements can foster success addiction, leading to long-term unhappiness.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [04:18]: "The biggest reason people aren't happier is because they don't know what happiness truly is and they think it's something it's not."

Foundations of Lasting Happiness

Brooks elaborates on his "Happiness 401k," advocating for daily investments in admiration, adoration, and meaningful pursuits. He underscores that happiness stems from these consistent, deliberate actions rather than transient feelings or external achievements.

Key Insights:

• Happiness Investment Plan: Regularly nurturing admiration for others, adoration in relationships, and engaging in meaningful activities builds enduring happiness.
• Role of Marriage: A strong, loving marriage is identified as the single most significant predictor of personal happiness.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [08:04]: "If Thomas Jefferson had taken my class at Harvard, he wouldn't have talked about the pursuit of happiness. He would have talked about the pursuit of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning."

The Critical Role of Marriage in Happiness

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on the profound impact of marriage on an individual's happiness. Brooks emphasizes that a healthy marriage not only serves as a primary source of happiness but also acts as a stabilizing force against life's challenges.

Key Insights:

• Single Biggest Predictor: Quality of marriage strongly correlates with overall life satisfaction.
• Communication Breakdown: Miscommunication and misattribution of intentions often lead to marital dissatisfaction.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [09:52]: "Marriage is the single biggest predictor of happiness because it's at the apex of both your family life and your friendship life."

Enhancing Marital Relationships Through Communication and Connection

Brooks provides actionable strategies for couples to strengthen their relationships. He introduces the concepts of admiration (primarily for men) and adoration (primarily for women) as essential elements that sustain marital bonds.

Key Insights:

• Admiration vs. Adoration: Men thrive on admiration for their achievements, while women seek adoration, a deeper emotional connection.
• The Five-to-One Ratio: Maintaining a ratio of five positive interactions for every one negative interaction fosters a healthy relationship dynamic.
• Physical Connection: Simple acts like holding hands and maintaining eye contact significantly boost oxytocin levels, reinforcing emotional bonds.

Notable Quotes:
Arthur Brooks [19:20]: "If you're not adoring her, and she's not admiring you, it sets off a downward spiral in the relationship."
Arthur Brooks [13:16]: "A 22-second hug gives you your maximum oxytocin release."

Understanding Jealousy in Relationships

Delving deeper into relationship dynamics, Brooks distinguishes between emotional and physical jealousy, attributing these differences to evolutionary factors. This understanding aids couples in addressing and mitigating jealousy-related conflicts.

Key Insights:

• Gender Differences in Jealousy: Men are more likely to experience jealousy over physical infidelity, whereas women are more concerned with emotional connections outside the marriage.
• Evolutionary Basis: These differences are rooted in evolutionary needs to ensure paternal certainty and resource security.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [32:32]: "Women are a lot more emotionally jealous, and men are a lot more physically jealous."

Metacognition: Managing Emotions for Greater Happiness

Arthur Brooks introduces the concept of metacognition—being aware of and managing one's own thought processes—as a critical tool for enhancing emotional well-being. He advocates practices like meditation and journaling to help individuals gain control over their emotions rather than being controlled by them.

Key Insights:

• Metacognitive Techniques: Practices such as meditation, journaling, and prayer help individuals observe their emotions non-judgmentally, fostering better emotional regulation.
• Default Mode Network: Reducing device usage and engaging in reflective practices activate the brain's executive center, enhancing creativity and problem-solving.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [40:35]: "The whole point is manage your feelings so they don't manage you."

Breaking the Cycle of Device Addiction

Addressing modern challenges, Brooks discusses the addictive nature of digital devices and their impact on happiness. He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries to prevent devices from hijacking one's neurochemical rewards system.

Key Insights:

• Dopamine and Devices: Frequent checking of devices stimulates dopamine production, creating a loop of dependency similar to other addictions.
• Setting Protocols: Establishing rules like no device usage during meals, the first hour upon waking, and in the bedroom can mitigate addictive behaviors.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [52:00]: "Your devices are not making you happy. Your devices don't bring happiness. You're doing that because you're addicted."

Conclusion and Future Insights

As the episode wraps up, Arthur Brooks shares his ongoing work and upcoming publications, promising further exploration into the meaning of life and deep purpose in future episodes. He underscores the continual journey of understanding and cultivating happiness through science-backed methods.

Notable Quote:
Arthur Brooks [57:19]: "My latest book is called 'Build a Life You Want' that I wrote with Oprah Winfrey. It came out last year."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the science behind happiness, highlighting the importance of redefining happiness beyond fleeting emotions and emphasizing the critical role of meaningful relationships, particularly marriage, in fostering lasting well-being. Arthur Brooks provides actionable strategies rooted in scientific research, empowering listeners to cultivate a happier, more fulfilling life.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Michael Bostic]

Fantastic.

[Arthur Brooks]

And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie.

[Lauren Everts]

And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic.

[Arthur Brooks]

Are bringing you along for the ride.

[Michael Bostic]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential.

[Arthur Brooks]

Him and her.

[Lauren Everts]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Skinny Confidential. Him and her show. In a world that's more connected than ever, why do so many of us feel so disconnected from our purpose, our partners, even ourselves? Today we're joined by Arthur Brooks, Harvard professor, bestselling author and happiness scientist, who's here to break down why true happiness isn't what we've been told. Why love is more of a skill than a feeling, and how to find deep purpose even when life feels like a scrolling blur. Whether you're struggling with anxiety, craving deeper connection, or just want more joy in your everyday life, this episode will change how you think. With that, let's dive in with one of the greats, Arthur Brooks. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her first Arthur. Welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you on. We've been trying to lock you down for a while, man. It's.

[Arthur Brooks]

No, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, thank you for having.

[Arthur Brooks]

Congratulations on touching so many people, so many, so positively with your. With your show.

[Michael Bostic]

Thank you. That's very, very nice. We're going to hop right into it.

[Arthur Brooks]

Let's do it.

[Michael Bostic]

You've spent decades studying happiness. Tell us the science to happiness in the simplest, most digestible terms.

[Lauren Everts]

What does it actually mean to be happy?

[Arthur Brooks]

So let's start by the biggest mistake people make. Because, look, if it were simple, everybody'd have it. We wouldn't have to. I wouldn't have to write books about it. I wouldn't have to teach classes on the science of happiness. It's the thing everybody wants. So it's weird why people don't have more of it. The biggest reason people aren't happier is because they don't know what it is and they think it's something it's not. Most people think that happiness is a feeling. They say, I want to feel happy. And they think that happiness actually is an emotion. It's not. Happiness and feelings are related to each other because feelings are evidence of happiness. Like the smell of dinner is not the dinner, it's evidence of dinner. That's your happy feelings. Don't go for the smell, go for the dinner. That's number one. So then you have to know what the dinner is, and it's really like dinner. It's like macronutrients, protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Happiness is three things. There's three things you need to dedicate yourself to that you can study scientifically. And we all kind of understand enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. That's happiness. If that's. And the goal is, don't. I'm going to be happy today. No, no, no. The goal is I'm going to enjoy my life more. I'm going to take more satisfaction in my accomplishments, and I'm going to look for the why of my existence. Those are the big three. Those are the goals in life. If Thomas Jefferson had taken my class at Harvard, he wouldn't have talked about the pursuit of happiness. He would have talked about the pursuit of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. Actually, he wouldn't have, but anyway.

[Lauren Everts]

Is that why so many high achievers, when they achieve, end up unhappy because they lose the meaning and they lose the enjoyment of life after that?

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, part of the whole problem with high achievers and a lack of happiness, there's a whole literature on that, and that's really, really interesting. They become success addicted. And so they're actually not thinking about enjoyment of their life or taking satisfaction with their accomplishments and doing the ordinary things that would bring you meaning. To be sure, what they're thinking about is trying to get the next neurochemical fix from winning. It's like, hit the lever, get the win, get the win, get the win. And they're on a wheel. This, this, this treadmill of I got to get more wins, I got to get more money, I got to get more power, I got to get more success, I got to get more Instagram followers, whatever it is. And that success addiction actually has its base in their neurochemistry. We actually have literature research on this now. And you look at a. A success addicted person's brain, downstream from which you find workaholism. Workaholism is a secondary addiction to success addiction. And their brains look like methamphetamine addicts usually, by the way. They have the same kind of childhood where they come home with a good report card or do well in sports and their parents go, that's so great. And they get all of their rewards from adults when they achieve things. And this is really problematic. This is why you shouldn't tell your kids that they're great when they get A's. You should compliment them when they work hard and they're virtuous.

[Lauren Everts]

Thank you, mom, for never giving me any Compliments.

[Arthur Brooks]

See how lucky you are?

[Lauren Everts]

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[Michael Bostic]

Is there something in the success thing that you just shared that has to do with experience stretching? So, like, for instance, like, let's say you get a hundred Instagram followers and you're so happy, you're so excited about it. And then, then you want 200, right. And you get 200, and then you want a thousand and you get a thousand. And it's like the experience is constantly stretch.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Until the thing that made you happy actually makes you sad.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. So that's tolerance, and that's just. That has to do with a neurotransmitter called dopamine. We've all heard of dopamine. Dopamine lies behind all the things that you learn how to do and also behind your addictions. So what happens is, you know, in the ancient brain, you'd get rewarded for finding gazelles at a watering hole or something like that, and it would give you this neurochemical reward. And so you'd want to go back. And if you, when you go back, you'll find the same number of gazelles, no extra dopamine. But if you go back and you find more gazelles, there's more dopamine.

[Michael Bostic]

Got it.

[Arthur Brooks]

And so that's the reason we escalate in everything. You escalate in your drinking, you escalate in your gambling, you escalate and you're fooling around, all the stuff that you do, and that's why you escalate in the what the wins have to be. If you just get another hundred Instagram followers today, it's like any loser can get that. Well, that was just yesterday's win. And that's giving you a little bit of a neurochemical penalty for not actually getting more, more, more, more, more.

[Michael Bostic]

So how do you fight that?

[Arthur Brooks]

Part of it is that you have to know what's going on. Knowledge is power. The reason I teach courses on the signs of happiness is because all the stuff that I'm talking about is activity, neurochemical activity, and activity in the limbic system of the brain. That's this console of tissue super ancient, between 2 and 40 million years old. And that that's what creates emotions automatically, to give you information about what's going on around you. That's all emotions are. They're not there to give you a good day, there to tell you what's going on. So you know how to react to something like that. And if you're acting according to your emotions, you'll be managed by your desires, and you'll be subjugated. You'll get addicted. But if you actually experience emotional information in the human part of your brain, the prefrontal cortex, that stuff in the very front of your head, your executive center, then you can say, oh. Oh, that's that old desire. Oh, that's funny. I feel disappointed about something that would have thrilled me last year. Isn't that funny? And you can have control, but you have to understand it. That's why I teach the science of it. Not just because it's interesting, but because I want to give people managerial control over their own brains.

[Michael Bostic]

What if I ask you guys this? I'm curious to know both of your answers and really curious to know yours.

[Arthur Brooks]

What a guy question.

[Michael Bostic]

No, I'm just. I just want to know maybe there's differences between you guys. What's. What makes you happy? Like, what makes little things big things? What makes you happy?

[Arthur Brooks]

I want to know what he says.

[Lauren Everts]

You want me to go first?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

I better be first on the list.

[Lauren Everts]

I think my wife makes me the happiest. No, I think, like, what. What makes, like, happiest moments for me is, like, it's. It's moments that actually maybe don't look so meaningful on paper. Just, like, time when I'm sitting with my children. Like, this morning, I was coloring with her and see her laugh, and I was like, oh, it's just, like, so innocent. Like, you know, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I am an overachie. I achieve, right? Like, I wouldn't do what I did if I didn't. Over time, I think maybe without even recognizing, maybe reading some of your work, I realized that I can't always be chasing. Cause I recognize I was on that flywheel of, like.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's called the hedonic treadmill.

[Lauren Everts]

I was on that. I've been on that treadmill. I have to get myself off of it. But, like, honestly, what makes me happy in life is those little moments, like, time with the kids, time when I see them growing, time when I look back, it's like, oh, I've built a stable life that's comfortable to live in and enjoy that kind of stuff. But I'm also, like, a pretty content and happy person by nature. I don't slip too deep into sadness or depression too often.

[Arthur Brooks]

So, yeah, so these are great answers because they're consistent with what we know about happiness. And the truth is that the sources of happiness are the same for almost everybody. The trouble is that we don't know what they are. And we think that the things that will bring us happiness don't. And vice versa. So here's what we think. If I'm really successful in worldly terms, happiness will come for free. The sources of worldly success are, in order, money, power, pleasure, and fame. Those are the big four. And fame means prestige or the admiration of others. Most people don't want to be Internet famous, but they want to be well known and liked by the right people. And those are evolutionary. Evolutionary, by the way, because we're a kin based hierarchical species, us Homo sapiens, we live in these little kin groups. And you want to rise in the kin group. So anything that gives you more access to resources is going to give you more status. And so you want more status. And so you think, if I get more status, man, I have more resources, I have more mates, I'll be happier. But mother nature doesn't care about your happiness. She just cares about your evolutionary success. And so you make the mistake of thinking, if I follow my impulses, I'll be happier. Right? And so that's not. And that's actually not right. But that's not what brings us happiness. Okay, so the happiness investment plan, the Happiness 401k, is putting a deposit each day in your faith or life philosophy. Why things happen the way that they do that will zoom you out from your ordinary, tedious existence. And think about the big things in life, your family life, your friendship, and the apex of both friendship and family life to your spouse. So this is the reason that marriage is the single biggest predictor of happiness. Is a good marriage is the single biggest predictor because at the very top of both, it's your best friend and your family all in one handy dandy package.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm so blessed.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's a. Wow, so much.

[Michael Bostic]

You must be so happy.

[Lauren Everts]

Is a bad marriage the exact opposite and the greatest predictor of unhappiness?

[Arthur Brooks]

No, it's not the exact opposite, but it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. And part of it is just, it's just such a disappointment because it's supposed to bring you so much happiness. And so the idea, you know, a tense marriage really is a bad thing for your fear. It is a bad thing for your happiness, for sure. And one of the things that I work on a lot with, you know, I work with couples all the time about how to take a tense marriage and turn it into a better marriage. Because that's one of the single best ways that you can actually raise happiness in your life. And the Last thing is your work and your work. And again, the fruit of your labor is not money, power and, and honor and fame. The fruit of your work is serving others and feeling like you're earning your success by creating value. That's what it comes down to.

[Michael Bostic]

How do you take a tense marriage and turn it to a happy marriage? What's the recipe for that?

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, there's a lot of patterns that you actually see in tense marriages. And most tense marriages just have to do with bad habits and laziness. So, for example, when a couple's on their way to divorce court, typically what they say, they have this thing that we call in psychology, motive attribution asymmetry. Sounds really, really fancy. It's a very simple idea, because that's what we do in academia, is take a simple idea and put big words around it and get tenure. Right. So mode of attribution asymmetry is when two sides to a conflict both think, I'm the one who loves, but that other person is the one who hates. And so what you find is when a couple's on their way to getting divorced, she'll say, no, I still love him. Look, I still love him, but he hates me. And he'll be like, are you kidding me? You should see how she treats me. She hates me. I love her, but she hates me. Well, that's a mistake. And so it turns out that cause both sides can't simultaneously love and hate. Usually both sides are mistaken. And the problem is the way that they interact with each other. So, John and Julie Gottman, I'm sure you know. Have you had them on your show before?

[Michael Bostic]

No. Who's that?

[Arthur Brooks]

The Gottman Marriage Lab at University of Washington.

[Michael Bostic]

No, I don't know.

[Arthur Brooks]

Oh, they're awesome. And the Gottmans show that when people treat each other with contempt, eye rolling, sarcasm, dismissal, that the other partner perceives hatred even though the partner who's doing it is not intending to display hatred. And so I still love her, but she rolls her eyes every time I say something like that. And their communication gets worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. That's problem number one. Miscommunication. Problem number two is that they don't engage the neurochemistry that's unique to marriages. Now, there's a. There's a bonding hormone in the brain you've all heard of called oxytocin. That's the love molecule. And we've evolved this so that we know our kin. And when we're with our people, it gives us intense pleasure. When you had your children and when you have more children, I hope you have many more children.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, my God.

[Arthur Brooks]

That when you lay your eyes on them for the first time, both of you, by the way, you get this explosion of oxytocin in your brain. It's like the fourth of July. And evolutionary biologists say that that's so you don't leave the baby on the bus or know something. But the truth of the matter is that's how you. That's when that person becomes your kin. And a squalling infant who has no idea who you are, you die for that person.

[Lauren Everts]

It's so weird. I cried both times instantly.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's amazing. That's why. That's why. So here's the thing. You get eye contact, you get. Sorry. You get oxytocin through eye contact and touch. That's really how you get it. And so the number one way to save a marriage is two rules. When you're together, you're touching, and when you're talking, you're staring at each other in the eyes.

[Michael Bostic]

I completely agree. Which is why when someone's on their cell phone, it's dismissive and you don't have that eye contact. And just if you're like, need a.

[Lauren Everts]

I never do that.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's just crazy.

[Michael Bostic]

It needs a refresh. My love language is touch. Yeah. So I'm right on track.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Arthur Brooks]

Always holding hands. Always holding hands.

[Lauren Everts]

You know what she does?

[Michael Bostic]

Why are we holding him up?

[Lauren Everts]

We won't get into love languages here, but because she tries to take all five of them.

[Michael Bostic]

Touches my number, number one.

[Arthur Brooks]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

But she, she literally tries to commandeer all five and say that they're all.

[Michael Bostic]

Touch is really important. And eye contact is important too.

[Arthur Brooks]

Super important. Because eye contact is when and, and. And long periods of eye contact is nourishing for. It's. It stimulates tons of oxytocin in strangers too, by the way, when you're having a. That's one of the reasons that zoom work is so deleterious to mental health, because you don't get enough oxytocin. That's why social media is such a big bad way to communicate with other people. Because you don't get eye contact in touch, in person. But especially spouses, especially people who are in a permanent, as we say in social science, permanent pair bond mating. That you need to be always talking to each other straight in the eyes and more time than you think. By the way, a 22 second hug gives you your maximum oxytocin release.

[Lauren Everts]

Get the timer Out.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm gonna play this clip every morning.

[Lauren Everts]

I had a question on something you touched on earlier, which is sometimes people think there's like this ide of happiness, like it needs to look a certain way. I have a very close friend who had his parents split when he was young, but while they were together, they were super intimate in front of him. Not nothing sexual, but just like always touchy. Feel it. But it was a very toxic relationship that exploded many ways now in his life later. And he. We've talked about this. If he gets in a relationship and it's not that explosive touchy feeling from the beginning, he deems that to be not a, you know, not a successful relate. Like, that's not what a relationship should look like. And what I pointed out to him is like, well, maybe you have this idea of what it should feel like, but maybe it shouldn't feel like. Does that happen commonly in relationships or dating or marriages?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. So one of the reasons that you find that. That divorce, for example, it appears to be epigenetic insofar as it kind of passes down through the generations, is because you. You mimic what you see. We're mimetic and we're. We mimic particularly what we see in our parents. So people ask me all the time, you know, how do I. How do I. How do I teach my kid to, you know, be a decent person? How do I raise my kid in the faith? These are kinds of questions. Doesn't matter what you tell them. All that matters is what they see. Be the person you want your kid to become, okay? If you want your kid to grow up and be religious in your religion, no Sundays off or whatever your religion happens to be, if you want your kid to grow up and not be a problem drinker, never have your child see you drink problematically. I mean, that's the key. Because all that matters is what they see. And they record these things. I mean, this is just imprinted. And there's a ton of data on this. So the same thing is true with, you know, with toxic patterns is what we see. If your parent, if your parents, your parents are behaving toxically and you see it, you'll imprint that if they do something that represents what a good marriage or a functional relationship is all about, you'll do that. And you'll be looking for that as well. Now, that's not destiny. So, you know, for example, my parents had a very good marriage. They loved each other. They died young. They were. Had tons of health problems. You know, they died in their 60s. And one in early 70s, one in, in mid-60s. And it was very sad and all that. But they had a wonderful marriage. They loved each other. And my dad was completely loyal to my mom. Completely, unfailingly loyal to my mom. And that's what I saw. And that's what marriage actually means to me. My wife grew up in a broken home. You know, her dad took off when she was little and, and it was sad and it was hard and, and, and. But she said, I don't want that. She was conscious about that. So there's something about it. The more. This is called metacognition. In other words, don't, don't be guided by these patterns and these emotions. Be conscious of these things and say, this is the one I'm going to leave behind. And so think about your childhood and say, not that one, I don't want this one, yes, that one, no. And you can actually ref. You can break the patterns, but you have to be really conscious and self managing.

[Michael Bostic]

How do people sabotage their happiness within a relationship?

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, they do all the time because they, A lot of it has to do with kind of bad habits. You know, they'll fall away from something like this and then they, they just don't, they kind of don't know how to get back. Like they've wandered into the woods and lost their path and they don't know how to get back. Some of it is bad habits that we talked about in the way that they communicate with each other. So they'll be treating each other with contempt and then imprinting of the, on the other person. Hatred, that doesn't exist sometimes it's just neglect is what it comes down to. And then of course there's some, some really interesting sort of male female differences that we see. So if you want to break it down to kind of its evolutionary basics, if, if men only could get one thing, it would be admiration. And if women could only get one thing, it's adoration.

[Michael Bostic]

What's adoration? Explain.

[Arthur Brooks]

Adoration is. I'm so crazy about you, I would. I'm so crazy about you and only you that if a tiger is coming in here, I will, I will sacrifice my life right now. Baby, you're everything to me.

[Michael Bostic]

So it's like being desired.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. And it's being desired, but it's being, it's being, it's being completely loved. Above all, above all, above all that's adoration. And there's a reason, there's an evolutionary reason for that. I mean, it's like there's a big commitment in caring and caring and caring for children. You know, you need a partner who's going to be, who's going to be all there and all in, whereas you need to be rewarded for getting that gazelle and dragging it into the cave. And so that, that's how evolution actually creates these patterns in our own lives. And so the way that it's seen today, this is called the adoration, admiration dichotomy, where what happens in a marriage is that, that women inadvertently don't give men the one thing they really, really need and men stop giving women the one thing that they need. So what'll make a marriage really fall apart is when he's not adoring her and. Or she's not admiring him.

[Michael Bostic]

Wow, that is really important. Let's talk more about that.

[Arthur Brooks]

And super important, because when guys ask my. So I have more women in my audience than men because I talk about these kinds of issues, right? I'm not talking about, you know, how to get your bench press up or, you know, what supplements you should.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, man, you look pretty strong.

[Arthur Brooks]

You look like you alpha, Granddad.

[Lauren Everts]

You have to wait.

[Arthur Brooks]

Anyway, so that's. Is that a thing? Anyway, but, but when guys ask, it's like, what's the secret to a successful relationship or to, to doing well in my relationship. Falling in love, staying in love, attracting the right person. Number one, adore her. Number two, be admirable because she's not going to admire you if you're not admirable. She's not going to admire you if you're 11 hours a day playing video games.

[Michael Bostic]

Right?

[Arthur Brooks]

She's not going to admire you if you look at pornography. She's not going to admire you if you're not getting a job. I mean, duh. I mean, this stuff is all pretty basic. Be admirable and adore her. Then the next question is, what if I don't feel it? Fake it, because that's actually how you do anything. You're not going to be relying on your feelings. That is the limbic system is being influenced by all sorts of external factors. Adore her because that's been your decision to do so.

[Michael Bostic]

Smart mouth. It's the only mouthwash scientifically proven to eliminate and prevent bad breath for 24 hours with just two rinses a day. And how it does this is amazing. So basically what it does is there's a unique dual chamber bottle. So there's two powerful solutions that separate until you're ready to rinse. When you pour the two solutions into the cup. You're activating their smart zinc technology. And it has a zinc ion activation, which is the key to eliminating and preventing sulfur gas. So everything's designed to prevent that sulfur gas. And the sulfur gas is actually bad breath. And that is the secret to all day fresh breath. We obviously all want fresh breath, and I think that if you don't have a good mouthwash, this is a really great one. It's developed by a dentist called Dr. Cohen. He spent years researching the cause of bad breath and he actually like, literally wrote a book on bad breath. He's the author of the halitosis section in the medical edition of the encyclopedia too. So if you want fresh breath for 24 hours with effortless convenience, you have to check them out. I especially like how it's developed by a dentist. I think that's great. Never have bad breath again. Find smart mouth at Walgreens, Walmart and Amazon or visit smartmouth.com skinny to snag a special discount on your next smart mouth purchase. That's www.s M A R-T-M-O-U-T-.com skinny don't miss out on 24 hour fresh breath. Your mouth will. Thank you. I love a cashmere sweater, especially around my shoulders. I find it so fresh. It's classic, it's easy. And I did it like my whole pregnancy. And the one that I've been using is by Jenny Kane. It's the Flynn cashmere sweater. It's beautiful. I have it in heather gray and I also have it in black, but I have my eye on the ivory. It's like a white. It's so beautiful. It's v neck. It's not too low, it's not too high. It's just right. It really flatters your collarbone. I love it. And the cashmere is absolutely beautiful. They have all different cashmere sweaters on their site, so you can go on and find what works for you. But I specifically love the Flynn. It's the absolute highest quality and it has impeccable attention to detail. You can feel the difference, like right when you take it out of the box. Jenny Kane makes getting dressed easy with their classic elevated pieces that easily st style up or down. If you haven't checked them out and you're looking for just like a staple beautiful wardrobe. They have linen dresses, they have cotton knits. They have some incredible home pieces. I love their blanket selection. They just do it right and it's simplistic and like I said, classic. Find your new summer uniform at Jenny Kane and our listeners get 15 off your first order when you use code skinny15 at checkout. That's 15 off your order at J E N N I K. A promo code skinny 15. Let getting dressed be one less thing to worry about.

[Lauren Everts]

Summer is here and it is a hot one, which thank God I have my Estral tequila and I have my go to cocktails from Estrall. For those of you that don't know what Estrall Tequila is, it has quickly become my go to tequila for margaritas at home because it is an affordable, great tasting tequila that mixes beautifully into just about any cocktail, especially a margarita. Australas award winning quality and taste, has an agave forward citrus profile that adds a burst of brightness to to any cocktail. And housemark Summer is officially here. So like I said, I've personally shared my preference for house margaritas. It is basically a three, two, one profile of three parts tequila, two parts Cointreau and then one part lime. Maybe you can add a little bit of sugar or sweet with a little bit of salt, but that's typically how I do it and I do it with the reposado. But one of my absolute summer go to cocktails, which I think everybody has to have a couple summer go to cocktails, especially when it's hot, is also the Paloma with a little grapefruit and I use the blanco tequila for that. So when I think about entertaining or I think about hosting or I think about going out, I like to kind of stick with one theme of cocktail, one theme of alcohol. And if I'm going with tequila, it is definitely starting with a margarita, but then maybe transitioning to something like a Paloma and then maybe into a sipping cocktail with the anejo, just so that I can kind of taper through the night, not have too much sugar. Everybody wants to have a little bit of a balance and a little bit of flavor to begin with, but you also don't want to have too much sweet throughout the night. We're all kind of watching our figure, making sure that we don't get these headaches, making sure that, you know, we're having the proper intake of the right amount of alcohol versus sugar and sweeteners. And so that's how I like to do it. It's hard to find high quality tequilas that are also reasonable on price, which is why I love Estrall so much because you can get three high quality tequilas that are great for a home bar. They're great to order when you're out. They're Great to give to friends, but they're also not going to break the bank, which is so important. You also don't want to go with low quality tequilas because those are the ones that maybe leave you not feeling as great. Which is why again, I like a straw so much because it is a high quality tequila with great flavor profiles at a reasonable price that you can afford. And they are so versatile in so many different cocktails. I've outlined, obviously the margarita, we've outlined the Paloma, you can do it in an old fashioned tequila. You can do it in so many different ways. And you can also mix and match the anejo, the blanco, the reposado into all different kinds of cocktails that I mentioned previously. So check them out. Housemarque. Summer is here. Time to stock up. Go to www.a s t r a l t e q u I l a dot com to find a straw near you. And don't forget the limes. Please enjoy responsibly. I've seen you talk about the. The in love and connection, that it's actually a decision and not a feeling. I think that's what you're talking about.

[Arthur Brooks]

Exactly. Right. To love is to will the good of another person as that other person to will has nothing to do with how you feel at any given moment. And the more you will it, the more you'll feel it. So here's the deal. You know, there's like, if love were a feeling, I wouldn't have been married 34 years. I wouldn't have been married 34 minutes. You know, it's like we fight every single day. We fought every day for 34 years. Because we're same. Yeah. I mean, my wife is Spanish.

[Michael Bostic]

She's.

[Arthur Brooks]

They're, they're quarrelsome people.

[Lauren Everts]

You must be Spanish.

[Michael Bostic]

You guys like it. He's looking. But you know what? I will tell you. This morning you did a call in front of me and what did I say to you? I'm. I'm. No, I'm showing you a little way.

[Lauren Everts]

I handled the call. It was a big time.

[Michael Bostic]

I said, that was amazing.

[Lauren Everts]

She doesn't see me on those calls that often.

[Arthur Brooks]

And if you take a call and you neglect her for a minute, she, she will not feel adored at that moment because she won't be the apple of your eye. She won't be the center of your existence.

[Michael Bostic]

Don't worry. I huffed and puffed through it and that.

[Lauren Everts]

So I should have held her hand and been like, close the fucking deal, Jim. Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, you could hold you could hold my hand.

[Arthur Brooks]

Now you, of course, you need admiration and you need adoration to be sure, but this is this. And again, you don't want to be reductive about it. And people are different. Everybody's different. You know, there's different levels. And as. As they say in finance, your results may vary, but probably not that much. And so these are the patterns to actually keep in mind. So what are the counterproductive things that actually people do is that she admires him a little less or neglects the admiration for him, and then he adores her a little less or stops acting in an adoring way that he actually should, and then she admires him less and he adores her less, and we go down and we go down and we go down, and we don't know what happened to our marriage.

[Michael Bostic]

So if I'm feeling annoyed, I need to tell him, you need to adore me more.

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, I mean, if you need to be adored more, it's like, this is one of the things that guys need to hear, too. Because, guys, you know, it's one of the things that. One of the patterns that actually goes into marital conflict is that she's not just mad that he did something. She's extra mad that he didn't know that she felt that she was mad because he didn't do something.

[Michael Bostic]

It's not that hard, guys.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, we. Okay, let me play the devil's advocate meme.

[Arthur Brooks]

The problem is not that you did that, but you didn't know how much it hurt me. Me. You know, it's like if you. If you really love me, you'd know why I'm mad.

[Lauren Everts]

So. So we spent time talking about what the men need to do. But from your experience, what can a woman do to be more adored?

[Arthur Brooks]

To be more. It's. Well, number one is to admire more, because that turns on the adoration process. I mean, there's nothing that will melt a guy like. That is the biggest gazelle that you've ever drug into this cave. You are so big and strong. That's going to feed our family for two weeks. That's awesome.

[Michael Bostic]

I feel like I. Do I not do that? Do you feel like I don't admire you?

[Lauren Everts]

I feel like we're in a good spot. No, we do have. You do.

[Arthur Brooks]

But not, by the way, not. You got blood on the cave floor from the gazelle again.

[Lauren Everts]

I forgot. You forgot that part. Sometimes you do that part.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, that's normal. I mean, again, I mean, you can't get blood on the floor.

[Arthur Brooks]

But that's the whole thing. And vice versa, by the way, men.

[Lauren Everts]

In general, I think every. I mean, some, maybe not, but I don't think any man likes to be complained to or at about their behavior. Even when it's wrong, it's a big turn off. And like, listen, I'm not defending men. Many of us need to clean up our act, but nobody likes to hear I'm gonna use this term, like bitching from their significant.

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, it's the opposite of admiration. Yeah, that's negative admiration.

[Michael Bostic]

You don't like a little bitching every once in a while?

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, I deserve it a lot, you know, but the whole point is you gotta have the, you gotta have the. The ratio. Right? So back to the, you know, the stuff, the research from John and Julie Gottman. They talk about making sure that you've got a 5 to 1 ratio of praise to criticism. And so that's. And that turns out to be the magic ratio that they found in their, in their research. And again, it probably depends. It's one of the interesting things is in different cultures, no doubt it matters. So there's a study on East Asia. How much criticism at work versus praise at work do you need to actually be happy in your job? It's like 5 to 1 in America and 2 to 1 in Japan or something like that because they have more emotional fortitude.

[Michael Bostic]

My husband's a fourth Japanese and his mom's half.

[Arthur Brooks]

Half. There you go.

[Michael Bostic]

So I, I told.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's. You can handle it.

[Michael Bostic]

That's interesting.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, I made that joke about my.

[Michael Bostic]

But by the way, I'm American, so I need five to one.

[Arthur Brooks]

But your marriage needs five to one. Your marriage needs five to one. So this is the thing. It's okay to criticize, but make sure that there's five compliments about how awesome and great and strong and big and beautiful and handsome he is for H1s. Like, dude, the blood on the cave. And it's like, please practice tonight.

[Lauren Everts]

You will give, I will get five.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, totally. You have to do it five to one. Five to one. I adore you. I adore you. I adore you. I adore you. I adore you. And by the way, you were late last night.

[Lauren Everts]

But then does that make it.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm imagining anytime you speak to me now, I'm gonna say it.

[Arthur Brooks]

Five to one to one. Baby, have you done your five?

[Lauren Everts]

But when you said it that way, when you told, great, great, great, by the way, you were late, I right away I was instantly more receptive to Being like, you know, maybe I was late.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, totally.

[Lauren Everts]

You know what I mean?

[Arthur Brooks]

Absolutely. By the way, if you actually make a note of it, and there are counselors that will make their couples write the things down in a notebook. So you have to write down the thing that's bugging you about the other person. But then you have to write down five positive, beautiful things first and say those things first. And by the time you get to number six, which is a criticism, you're not feeling it anymore. You might not even get to it.

[Michael Bostic]

Do you do this with your wife at home?

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, we are real conscious of this. We're conscious of these things. And part of it is that we do together. We do talks for couples that are in marriage prep. They're engaged. And, you know, this is for the Catholic Church, you know, if you're going to get married by a priest, you have to go to marriage prep. It's the rule. And they don't wanna. They do not wanna. They're just, like, dragging in there. And so I talk about science and she talks about. She does stuff on this, you know, theology. And we try to make it funny, and we try to make it interesting. But when you're teaching this stuff, you hold yourself to a higher standard. You know, when you talk to them about how jealousy works, jealousy is super interesting, you know, between men and women. Why, how it's different and how it manifests itself. When you talk about admiration and adoration like we just talked about, you're just more conscious of it. And so the result is that it really. It really helps our marriage a lot.

[Michael Bostic]

How does jealousy work?

[Arthur Brooks]

Jealousy is different between men and women. Women are a lot more emotionally jealous, and men are a lot more physically jealous. So men are a lot more paranoid about their partner in. In a physical relationship with another woman. And women are a lot more worried about their partner in an emotional relationship with another man.

[Lauren Everts]

Woman, person, person, whatever.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's really important because basically. And this is actually work from a guy right here in Austin who teaches at UT Austin. He's an evolutionary psychologist named David Buss. I actually don't know him, but I've cited his work a hundred times. He's great. And he shows that the thing that drives women bonkers is the image of their partner saying I love you to another woman. And what drives men bonkers is the idea of their partner in a sexual situation with another man. And that's evolutionary, right? Because if you're a man 250,000 years ago in the Pleistocene, there's no genetic Testing. You got to know that you're raising your own offspring. And if you're a woman, you got to be confident that this guy here is not going to take off and raise somebody else's family. That's why emotional, physical is the way that this works. But once again, it all kind of makes sense. But we got to understand this about our partners. Look, we're in these permanent pair bonds. We're in love relationships. Till death do us part, man. The last person he's. That he's going to lay his eyes on as he takes his dying breath is your beautiful face. That's the goal. That's it.

[Lauren Everts]

Bless if I go first.

[Michael Bostic]

Well, how have you. Yeah, I might want to go first. I'll go. I'll go a week.

[Arthur Brooks]

Say you're going first.

[Lauren Everts]

Speaking of destinations, you've said humans are meant for progress, not arrival. Can you elaborate on that?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. That gets back to the whole thing about strivers struggling. You know, strivers are all about winning, and winning is all about arriving. And arriving is not about the inherent satisfaction you get with progress from day to day to day. But life is about progress. Humans need to make progress. That's what makes them happy. There's a very interesting thing that shows that there's a tendency for Olympic athletes when they win a gold medal, to suffer a clinical depression in the month after they win. The reason is because making progress toward the medal making is so satisfying. There's so much sacrifice that goes into it. So satisfying. But then they get there, they're like, it's going to be heaven and it's just another day. And that is unbelievably disappointing. So there's an interesting body of literature about why is weight loss is so unsuccessful. It's like it has a 95% failure rate. Now with the new drugs, who knows? But with a all diets work. No fat works, no carbs works. You know, intermittent fasting works because it'll make progress toward the goal. The problem is when you hit your goal, your reward is never getting to eat what you like ever again for the rest of your life. Congratulations. And that's unbelievably disappointing. It's super satisfying to see the scale go down. But then when you hit your goal, you think it's going to be great for the rest of your life, and it's just another day. But you don't get to eat what you like. And that's why diets fail. That's called the arrival fallacy.

[Lauren Everts]

So how do you get somebody that's on, let's even take a weight loss journey to keep up with those habits without being disappointed and unhappy like this.

[Arthur Brooks]

You have to learn to love the way that you're living. You have to learn to love the new way of life. Most people will treat a diet like torture. I hate this. I can't have a cake. I'm always hungry. And if you're in a punitive diet where you're always hungry, you're not going to learn to love it. But, you know, so, so, so we all go to the gym every day. I mean, going to the gym every day is the kind of thing that you do. The way that you stay in the gym is by loving the gym. It's like, I want to go to the gym every day. And it's not just because it's not vanity. I mean, in my case, are you kidding? That ship has sailed. But I do love actually how it feels to. I love how it feels to lift weights.

[Michael Bostic]

Isn't this how addiction works? Like with, for instance, with stopping to drink? You have to fall in love with how your life is sober, right? Is the same kind of thing.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's why you don't quit drinking. That's why you put something else in its place.

[Michael Bostic]

Right?

[Arthur Brooks]

That's why, you know, drinking or any addiction is a relationship. You have a relationship with the substance or the behavior. It's a love relationship. That's why there's a very famous book about alcoholism called Drinking A Love Story. Why? Because that feels like the primary love relationship in your life, which is why it ruins your marriage. Is because you love the booze more than you love your spouse. And you'll be. And people will love their phones more than love their spouse. They love Vegas more than they love their spouse. That's how addiction works, is the whole thing. Thing. You need a better love relationship. So if you just stop drinking and try to white knuckle it for the rest of your life, in the literature that's called the dry drunk syndrome. So in other words, you're angry and you're bereft and you're lonely and you're, you know, you're, you're terrible to be around. And the whole thing is because you're, you're basically, you know, the love of your life just left and nobody else came. You can't do it that way. It's all about substitution.

[Lauren Everts]

We just looked at each other and laughed because we have a close friend who's just, just was, did like this con. He just, he took a lot of time off Alcohol. And he was white knuckling the whole.

[Arthur Brooks]

Time, and he was not fun to be around.

[Michael Bostic]

And he was literally, call me when you're done.

[Arthur Brooks]

I know.

[Lauren Everts]

He's like, what? I'm not that bad. I'm like, oh, man.

[Arthur Brooks]

I know. And you have to actually say, you know, it's. It's funny, but I mean, I used to smoke. I was a smoker for a long time, and through my 20s, I was a musician, classical musician. All the way through my twenties, I smoked. And. And. And I remember when I quit, I'm like, the first thing I noticed besides having the monkey on my back and, you know, like, life had no meaning because I just wanted a cigarette so bad. I had way too much time on my hands. Like, I was like. Had time on my as. I. I never knew what to do.

[Lauren Everts]

With that because of all the smoke breaks.

[Arthur Brooks]

And this was before there were phones, you know? And so I was just. I was living in Barcelona at the time, and I'd be like, so what do I do? What do I do? I mean, all my friends are outside smoking, and I'm just sitting here like an idiot. And the point is, I didn't actually prepare to get off the smokes by doing something instead of it.

[Michael Bostic]

And so did you replace it with something?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, I started walking. I started walking, walking, walking, walking. Every time I want a cigarette, I would get up and go walk around the block, and I was like, it's a beautiful day, and I would notice the sunshine. I would hear the birds chirping, and it improved my quality of life. But I put something in that slot, and it got much better.

[Michael Bostic]

Do you miss it now or do you not even think?

[Arthur Brooks]

It's only been 35 years, so. Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

You still miss it, or you don't you still miss it?

[Arthur Brooks]

I do.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, my God.

[Arthur Brooks]

I do.

[Michael Bostic]

Really?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. I quit drinking 23 years ago, and. Yeah, that too.

[Michael Bostic]

You miss it, like, every day?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. Yeah, I think about those things every day.

[Michael Bostic]

Huh.

[Arthur Brooks]

I mean, it's not ruining my quality of life. It's not like I'm like. I'm not white knuckling it, but. Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Wow.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

But you replaced it with other things, mostly.

[Arthur Brooks]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, you know, an obsessive approach to my work, perhaps. And I have to be careful about that because workaholism actually is a pathology, and it is a love relationship. When you fall in love with your work, you're gonna have an affair with your work, and that's gonna crowd out your marriage and relationship with your kids. And your friendships. And you gotta be really careful about that. And that's downstream from success, addiction, which is neurochemically how you're getting your rewards by winning.

[Michael Bostic]

Do it sounds like you think the marriage is the most important relationship, though.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Out of all of them.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

And anything that crowds that out and impacts that, that needs to be examined.

[Arthur Brooks]

It must be examined and eliminated. Anything that's crowding out the love you're. If you're married, which most people have a vocation to marriage, you have to take care of that. You won't be happy if it's not healthy.

[Michael Bostic]

Huh?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Do you know, like, it's interesting to hear you talk because a lot of what you're saying is. It's registered in my mind is being just aware of your feelings in each of these situations as they present. And like being. Being conscious that, oh, you're maybe chasing work too hard.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's metacognition. Because we all have stuff going on, man. And the whole idea of trying to eliminate all of these sources of distractions. No, no. I mean, life has suffering. Life has distraction. Life has problems. We got pathologies. We're broken in different ways. We all have different traumas. Be aware of it. Say, I'm not going to eliminate that. I'm going to learn and grow from it. I'm okay. I'm a human being on the face of the earth. But I have to be conscious of these things. So the whole point is manage your feelings so they don't manage you.

[Michael Bostic]

Meditation has really helped me become a happier person. Have you seen that?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. That's a classic technique of metacognition. So emotions occur in the limbic system of the brain. Right. Your executive center is the prefrontal cortex of your brain. Your limbic system is unbelievably fast. You get your emotions in fractions of a second, but you know what's going on in seconds. So if you're crossing the street and a car is coming toward you, it will cross. It'll come across the occipital lobe, the visual cortex of your brain. Brain. It'll light up a part of your limbic system called the amygdala that will then send a signal through your pituitary glands down to your adrenal glands, and it'll spit out a stress hormone in 74 milliseconds that will make you jump out of the way. That's three seconds before your prefrontal cortex has said, that car almost hit me. So that's the fast part. So in order for you to have managerial self control, when you have emotions, you got to slow them down by examining them. That's what meditation does. You're examining what's going on. It's like Lauren is feeling a little sad today. You know, it's funny because so many things are going right in Lauren's life and she should be grateful, but she feels a little sad today. That could be for many different things. Something's bothering Lauren about work, and there was a little argument over dinner last night, but you know, I think it really is because she didn't sleep well last night. That's metacognition. And that's what actually happens, especially in Vipassana meditation, which is an insight form of meditation. Prayers of petition are great for this. When you're offering things up, saying, lord, help me with this. You can't actually pray in your limbic system. You're praying in your prefrontal cortex. Journaling is phenomenal because when you're holding a pencil and writing down your emotions, you've moved them to the right part of your brain to experience and manage them.

[Michael Bostic]

Travel agents are back. Seriously. And Fora is the modern travel agency. I'm all about a modern travel agency. It makes planning and traveling stress free with no extra cost to you. So picture this. You and your bestie have decided this is the year that you're gonna go on your dream Girls getaway. And you've been talking about this since college or when you got married. But now what are you drowning in information and browser tabs, feeling paralyzed and not sure how to pick the best one. I know I get very overwhelmed with travel. Michael's very good at it. He usually plans a lot, but I know that he loves a modern travel agency. So what happens is Fora has all your confirmation numbers handy, room preferences squared away, and they're the ones to make sure you're picked up at the right airport terminal. This has happened to me. Even when your flight is four hours late, they cover really everything. Fora unlocks access to training, community, tech and hotel partners that you need to succeed as a travel entrepreneur. Plus all the back office admin to make sure you actually get paid for your hard work. Fora is really on the pulse. So whether you're looking to plan a trip or build a business planning trips, visit foratravel.com skinny and let them know you came from Skinny to learn what it means to travel upgraded, that's F o r a travel.com skinny and let them know that you came from the Skinny because great Travel doesn't just happen, it's planned. Something that saved me during this pregnancy, and I mean saved me, was digestive bitters. The ones that I take are by Just Thrive. And so what I did with this is I would take the digestive bitters before I ate so I wouldn't get the most uncomfortable heartburn. I had to have Just Thrive Digestive bitters before I would eat. It was such a game changer. Bitter herbs and plants have been used for centuries to stimulate digestion, support detoxification and keep the gut thriving. I've noticed the most though it helps with heartburn and indigestion like so much. So basically they give you the power of 12 clinically proven herbs that help your body break down food efficiently while naturally supporting GLP1 production. I just popped two of them. They're tasteless. They're just five capsules before my largest meal. At this point it's usually at dinner because I'm not like hungry until dinner and then I'll get really hungry. You can try Just Thrive Digestive bitters and Just Thrive Probiotics. I also take their probiotics. I love their probiotics. I take take two in the morning. I've taken them my whole pregnancy. I'm a big fan of this brand. You can try Just Thrive Digestive bitters and their probiotic today atjust thrive health.com and of course we have a code. You can use code TSC for 20% off your first order. That's justthrive health.com code TSC. Your body will thank you.

[Lauren Everts]

For those of you feeling charitable in the new year and wanting to play a small part for the safety of our children, our community. Every day our law enforcement officers face life and death decisions in increasingly dangerous environments. From high stress incidents to critical officer involved events, these men and women are on the front lines. Yet they lack the training, funding and resources they need to protect themselves and the communities they serve. Enter the Community First Project a service disabled veteran owned nonprofit founded by a tier one Navy SEALs and Army Special Operations leader. Their mission, to provide cutting edge real world tactical training that empowers officers to serve, protect and survive. At C1P, they believe in the power of training to save lives. Both the lives of officers and the lives of the communities they protect. With expert comprehensive programs, Community First Project helps to bridge the gap between what our law enforcement needs and what they're given. So when you support C1P, you're not just donating, you're making sure officers are prepared for the challenges they face every day. You're helping build safer, stronger communities and most importantly, you're saving lives. I'm very passionate about this mission and hope our audience is as well. So join us in this crucial mission. Visit c1p.org today to learn how you can help make a difference. Again, if you can, go do your part and make a [e-mail].

[Michael Bostic]

My friend was like, I can't meditate. How do you sit still for so long? And I said, think of it like a strategy session with yourself. Like sitting in silence and not thinking about anything. To me, that's not realistic. So like, I switched the like, brand of meditation for me and that's when it clicked for me is it is a self reflection strategy session where I can figure out, okay, I didn't sleep well last night and I can.

[Arthur Brooks]

It gives me more judgmental observation. Yeah, this is the key thing now. If you're thinking about yourself going, I shouldn't be. I shouldn't have done that. No. You say, she's feeling a little sad and angry today. Isn't that interesting? Non judgmentally observation, as if you were a third person. That's how insight meditation works. It's a great technique because now your prefrontal cortex, that's your, the C suite of your brain, is in charge and that's who should be in charge.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, you're a spiritual person. Have you seen in your studies a correlation between spiritual people and happiness? And does it increase, decrease, stay the same?

[Arthur Brooks]

A ton increase? So spirituality or life philosophy or organized religion, they all have much the same effect on happiness. And again, anybody who's listening to us, who's really religious, they'll be like, what? It doesn't. I'm not saying it doesn't matter because I'm not saying what's right metaphysically or cosmically. I'm not going to say what's right. That's above my pay grade. I have my opinions. Everybody's got their opinions. But I do know for happiness, anything that gets you out of your groove, there's this. The psychodrama of your life is like my job, my car, my food, my shows, my career, me, me. It's just, it's like watching the same episode of the same sitcom over and over. It's just so boring and terrifying and terrible and you need something that zooms you out. So I do a lot of work over the last 11 years, 12 years now with the Dalai Lama. And so I go there, I go there every year. We do conferences together. We've written together. And he's really affected my life an awful lot. I'm sure it's just a very beautiful, very beautiful friendship, very beautiful relationship. And last April, when I was there, his monastery in Dharamsala in the Himalayan foothills. It's a beautiful place. And he told me about this photograph that he once saw that affected him a lot. I said, what was it photograph that affects it? Aliyah? It was called the Earth Below, and we've all seen it. It was before you were born. I was a little kid. I don't remember it. It was in 1969 when the Lunar lander took a picture of the Earth from the moon. And so you can see. It's like you can see the surface of the moon a little bit, and you see this blue orb that's the Earth. And it went back to Earth. And this was like, blew everybody's mind because nobody had ever seen a picture of the Earth, not from the Earth.

[Michael Bostic]

And it looks insignificant.

[Arthur Brooks]

And he said. He saw that and said, I'm so small. And he said, it made me so happy that I'm so small. And that's the reason that at my university, consistently, one of the classes that brings the most happiness. You know what it is? Astronomy. Astronomy. And the reason is because they go to that class and they're like, I'm little. This doesn't matter. You know, my boyfriend and I, we're not getting along. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm worried about getting a job. It doesn't matter because I'm just a speck on a spec on a speck on a spec. And that kind of zooming out is unbelievably helpful to people. And that's what all of the things do. Whether it's walking in the forest without your devices, whether it's studying the greatest music ever written, whether it's your vipassana meditation, whether it's my. I go to mass every day. I mean, that's that. You gotta have something, man.

[Lauren Everts]

Is that why if you're unhappy and you travel a far distance, you feel the same way because you realize that the world is so much bigger? Is that.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, it's so much bigger. And you'll also find that you have relief from the psychodrama because you're so far away from it.

[Michael Bostic]

Is this why there's all this stuff about meditating on your death, too? Because it makes you feel like.

[Arthur Brooks]

Like so small that that's helpful. That's a really good thing to do. The other good thing about Meditating on your death. That's called. That's called Amara sati. That's a Theravada Buddhist meditation, a nine part meditation where you're contemplating, you know, I just died, now I'm a bloated corpse. Now I'm starting to decay. So it sounds really horrible, but that's exposure therapy to something that is inevitable but scary.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

So the human brain is capable of understanding that you're physically going to die, but the human brain literally can't conceive of non existence.

[Michael Bostic]

Huh.

[Arthur Brooks]

Those are two different things. Death and non existence are two different things. That's how religion comes in. Because death religion says you're going to die, but you're not going to stop existing. That's how you untangle that. But for people who don't actually believe that, they can become very afraid of death because of the non existence part, which is weird and freaky. And what does it mean? And when you focus on it, you stop being afraid of it like anything else. If you're afraid of snakes, go look at snakes. If you're afraid of planes, go look at planes. Because that's called exposure therapy and it.

[Michael Bostic]

Makes a scary thing. I'm scared of needles and IVs.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. And so the way to actually get over that is to not dread the occasional iv. And next one's coming in a couple of months for you. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, well, you just reminded me. I forgot about that.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's Laura, you're gonna have a lot on your mind. You're going to be pretty distracted from it that at that point. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, I forgot about that.

[Arthur Brooks]

Besides the big one, which is the epidural, you won't see it.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, the epidural doesn't bother me as much as the I.

[Lauren Everts]

Because you don't see it.

[Michael Bostic]

Because at least with the epidural, you get something out of it.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's right.

[Michael Bostic]

You get high.

[Arthur Brooks]

I know, I know, I know. It, it looked, it was. It was so effective when my. My wife's having her kids that I got one too.

[Michael Bostic]

Ah, did you really?

[Arthur Brooks]

No. No.

[Michael Bostic]

I was going to say, geez, maybe I'll give one to Michael before you go. How can people from a micro level be happier every day when. When they're addicted to their devices?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. So no, there's a couple of different things to think about. But to begin with, you have to be conscious of the fact that your devices are not making you happy. Your devices don't bring happiness. You're doing that because you're addicted. And that's a really important thing. It's actually activating a dopaminergic pathway system in your brain the same way that slot machines do, the same way that a lot of drugs and alcohol will. It's just. And what'll happen is it's like, why do you check your phone? Phone when you're at the light? You're checking your phone when you're at the light because something in your brain said, I need the hit. You know, there's nothing interesting there. There's never anything interesting there on social media. But you look at it because you're compulsively doing that because the dopamine in your brain is going click, look.

[Michael Bostic]

So should you have specific boundaries around it?

[Arthur Brooks]

So the way to do that is to actually have protocols. This all comes down to protocols. So, for example, don't look at your phone for the first hour that you're awake. Love it now. So. And so if you're. If you get up, I get up real early. So the. For the first hour. Now, that often means don't use your phone when you're in the gym. Now that has a. Has a side bed. I know people are like, what? That is a side bet People are listening to us in the gym right now. So they have a.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, if you're listening to us, definitely keep using it in the gym.

[Arthur Brooks]

The side benefit of that is that actually you've ever noticed that when you're in the shower, you have your best ideas.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

There's a reason for that. Because you're meditating, your phone's not in there. Yeah. Right. And I real. Believe it or not, your iPhone is okay in the shower, but you don't take it in the shower. And so what's happening is you're turning on a part of your brain called the default mode network that makes your mind wander and it makes you more creative and you come up with ideas.

[Michael Bostic]

So that's why I like to clean.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah. Okay. So but don't use a phone and make sure you're not listening to anything.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, no, I like.

[Arthur Brooks]

If you work out, it's like an hour long shower and you're going to have your best ideas when you're under the bar.

[Michael Bostic]

It's a great tip.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's unbelievable. It's so fruitful. If you're trying to solve a problem, go to the gym, do resistance training or zone two cardio without devices. You're going to solve your problem is what it comes down to. And some people haven't done it in years. Okay. First hour of the Day. Last hour of the day. No devices. Devices downstairs, you go, upstairs you go to bed. No devices in the bedroom.

[Michael Bostic]

I love it.

[Arthur Brooks]

No devices at the dinner table during meal time. That's the second one. Okay. That's really important. No devices in the classroom room. There's not a. There's not a school in America that should allow any personal devices.

[Michael Bostic]

I agree.

[Arthur Brooks]

That should be executive orders galore from every governor in America that didn't some.

[Lauren Everts]

Governor start doing that.

[Michael Bostic]

And my thing is, if we're gonna allow cell phones in classes or when you're supposed to be learning or like a little kid is on an iPad, then let's just. Let's just get margaritas in the class. Yeah, give them a margarita. It's the same type of distraction. And if you're gonna drive on your cell phone, to me, that's the same as drinking and driving.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's actually more. I'm actually more dangerous.

[Michael Bostic]

I honestly think the new drinking and driving is being on your cell phone. And same with class. You might as well sit and have a margarita than be in class. What's the point?

[Arthur Brooks]

And the last thing to do is to actually take a fast each year to go on. I go on a silent retreat every year.

[Michael Bostic]

Amazing. How.

[Arthur Brooks]

Silent spiritual retreat, four to five days.

[Michael Bostic]

Can I come next time?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, it's great. Although it's all. It's like. It's. It's. It's all only men, only women. But anyway, the whole point is that you don't talk at all.

[Michael Bostic]

Amazing.

[Arthur Brooks]

You're totally silent and there's no devices and you're praying other people talk. You'll be listening to them, perhaps, but you're quiet. You're.

[Michael Bostic]

When you get out of that, do you just have 20,000 ideas?

[Arthur Brooks]

It's so much better. Yeah, it's so your life. So the first day, there's, like, kids screaming in your head, and by the second day, you're starting to calm down, and by the third day, you're like, this is good. By the fourth day, you're thinking, I wish this were 40 days longer.

[Michael Bostic]

Can you imagine if you went to a silent retreat with me? I don't think you.

[Arthur Brooks]

Well, it's actually. It's better if couples don't do that because they'll just talk to each other the whole time. Okay, I've done a retreat with my wife. I've done a couple's retreat with my wife.

[Michael Bostic]

Was she quiet the whole time?

[Arthur Brooks]

No, we weren't. It wasn't a silent retreat. It was actually a retreat where we were working together, and it was just like, no devices. And it was so good for the marriage.

[Michael Bostic]

It's so good for your brain, too, the whole thing.

[Arthur Brooks]

And if you're actually becoming more metacognitively aware and happier and more focused and less addicted together, that's a really important thing. And one more thing, by the way, with this metacognition, with the meditation or whatever you do, when you do it jointly, then it's more powerful when the two of you are doing it together. So I'll. I'll talk to couples that are, you know, religious, for example, and I say, how often you pray together? Like what? Praying together or meditating together is one of the most intimate things that you can do. It's more intimate than sleeping together. It's praying together. It's like, really? That's like bearing your whole soul. But you'll solve these problems. Like, wiring your batteries together is pure power.

[Michael Bostic]

It's like a frequency.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's unbelievable.

[Michael Bostic]

I loved this episode. I learned so much. I have so much to implement into.

[Lauren Everts]

We have a lot to work. Open invite anytime you want.

[Arthur Brooks]

Thank you.

[Michael Bostic]

Anytime you're doing pimp yourself out, Arthur.

[Arthur Brooks]

Thank you. I appreciate it. All my stuff [e-mail]. i have a column of the Atlantic that comes out every Thursday morning on the science of happiness. My latest book is called build a life you want that I wrote with Oprah Winfrey. It came out last year.

[Lauren Everts]

Is that the one you would start with if you were gonna.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's the basic science of happiness. I have a new one coming out in a year called the meaning of your life, how to find deep purpose in an age of emptiness.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. You'll come back then.

[Michael Bostic]

Insist that you come back on when that's coming back, because I have a hundred more questions.

[Arthur Brooks]

I. I have. I Hope I have 100 more answers, but I love being with you.

[Michael Bostic]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.