Bozoma Saint John On How To Build Unshakable Confidence, Lead with Power & Advocate For Your Worth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bossticks – Bozoma Saint John On How To Build Unshakable Confidence, Lead with Power & Advocate For Your Worth

Date: March 16, 2026
Hosts: Lauryn Bosstick & Michael Bosstick
Guest: Bozoma Saint John (Baz St. John)

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Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Lauryn and Michael Bosstick sit down with powerhouse Bozoma Saint John—a businesswoman, entrepreneur, author, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills cast member, and former CMO of Netflix. Together, they explore the dynamics of confidence, leadership, advocacy, and personal growth through candid stories from Bozoma’s remarkable career and personal life. The conversation blends humor, vulnerability, and practical advice, making it essential listening for anyone designing life on their own terms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Reality of Remote Work & Corporate Leadership

• Pandemic Sadness and Zoom Happy Hours:

  • Lauryn and Baz reflect on the awkwardness and loneliness of remote work and “Zoom happy hours.”
    • “Even though you were on a screen...you were essentially drinking alone at your desk.” – Lauryn (01:19)
    • “It was awful. I was the CMO of Netflix at that time...I couldn’t see anybody. I’m the type of person who needs other people’s energy...is my message landing?” – Baz (01:40)

• Pressure at Netflix vs. Reality TV:

  • Baz describes the intensity of being Netflix's CMO as significantly higher than her reality TV experiences.
    • On Housewives vs. Boardrooms: “This is a cakewalk...the kind of shark-infested waters I’ve swum in, this is nothing in comparison.” – Baz (02:48)

Navigating the Housewives Universe

• Embracing Drama, Bringing Solutions:

  • Baz quickly learned that not being “solution-oriented” is part of the Housewives formula.
    • “Nobody is solution-oriented...you’re not in a disagreement to find the solution, you’re in a disagreement to just be mad. I have a hard time with that.” – Baz (03:57)
    • Recalls an early season conflict: “She was offended by my use of the word weaponizing...and I was like, okay. You didn’t like it, and what. What do you want me to do about that?” – Baz (04:48)

• The Importance of Showcasing Process:

  • “Like my high school math teacher: Don’t just write the answer...I want to see your work. That’s what people want to see on the show.” — Baz (05:35)

• Authenticity and Confidence:

  • “You cannot walk into any boardroom thinking you don’t belong there. You will fail immediately.” – Baz (06:46)
  • “It’s my belief, my core belief, that I belong in the room.” – Baz (07:24)

Tangible Tips for Building Confidence

• Practical Steps for Self-assurance:

  • “We all have a unique talent or unique perspective...people always think your unique characteristic needs to be some higher-than-God type of talent...We all have some value. If you are confident in that...you’re winning.” – Baz (08:05)
  • Advice for social settings: Come with something unique that is authentically you. (09:04)

• Finding Connection—even When Different:

  • Baz recounts her experience as “the other” growing up in Colorado Springs and learning to seek connection through shared interests in pop culture and sports.
    • “Even if you feel like, oh my gosh, like none of these things are like me...you’re finding a similarity somewhere. That’s how you make friends and connect.” – Baz (10:11)

• Boardrooms, Empathy, and Human Connection:

  • On entering male-dominated spaces:
    • “Often I find they are more curious about me than I am of them...I feed that curiosity...there’s always a human connection.” (11:21–13:01)

Unshakable Confidence: The Molecule Analogy

• Understanding Your Impact:
  • “You walk into a room, it is matter. You enter the room, it is markedly different because you entered it...Why would you not stand in that? The room was different because you weren’t in there.” – Baz (14:34)

Parenting & Teaching Independence

• Raising a Daughter with Intentionality:
  • Baz shares her journey to single motherhood and how she involved her daughter in life decisions.
    • “I actually told her quite bluntly. I was like, girl, I don’t know how to do this...you’re gonna have to tell me about things you need.” – Baz (28:02)
    • Developed tradition of travel-based birthdays, requiring presentations and plans, nurturing independence and intentionality (31:20).

Vulnerability: Widowhood and Infertility

• Owning Her Story Publicly:

  • “There is so much shame attached to widowhood...but I don’t need to cry every day in order to honor my dead husband. There’s that kind of shame society puts on you, and so the women in my DMs...have been amazing.” – Baz (18:52)

• Infertility and Removing Stigma:

  • “There’s so much shame in it...people feel like if you’re a woman, that’s what you’re supposed to do. There shouldn’t be any shame in that.” – Baz (33:11)

The Balance of Masculine and Feminine

• Redefining “Tradition” and Duality:
  • “I am a homemaker. And I also happen to have had quite a few CMO jobs. I can be both of those things.” – Baz (38:00)
  • Rejects the binary: “You don’t see that a lot. You either see one or the other...I love making a home. There is no shame in accepting that.” – (37:44)

Career, Power, Money, and Reputation

• Career Ambition and Early Motivations:

  • “My early, early, early ambition was power. I wanted to be in charge. I didn’t like feeling like people didn’t respect me.” – Baz (41:45)
  • “I haven’t used a resume in about 15 years...It’s always been about proving that my value is more than whatever the company has asked me to do.” – Baz (54:54)

• Negotiating Raises, Advocating for Self:

  • “Understand the landscape of what everybody makes in the industry, and then you beat that by 30%...you also have to be able to back it up. Don’t be a dummy out here.” – Baz (44:13, 44:26)
  • “Women undervalue themselves so much...by the time the woman came to ask for a raise, she was way past her qualifications for it.” – Baz (44:43)

• Leaving Jobs and Preserving Reputation:

  • “I couldn’t necessarily get big raises...so I had to quit and get another job.” – Baz (54:01)

Pivotal Mentors and Stories

• The Spike Lee & Beyoncé Story:
  • “I was Spike Lee's assistant...he asked around...I said, ‘I saw this TV movie starring Beyoncé Knowles’...Spike was like, ‘I'm gonna talk to her.’ If not for that moment, I don't think I would have understood that tenure doesn't equate your power.” – Baz (57:14)

Choosing Housewives and TV

• From CMO to Housewife—A Strategic Pivot:

  • After leaving Netflix, Baz received an offer from Bravo.
    • “I thought they wanted me to become the CMO of Bravo. I didn’t think they wanted me on the damn show.” (61:51)
  • Motivation: To portray real, mature female stories often unseen on TV.
    • “Women of this age are so damn interesting, but we don’t get a chance to really see them...Where are the baddies at? Who have a corporate career...falling in love again?” (63:14)

• Full Circle: Your Molecule Changes the Room:

  • “When I said you should walk into a room or into matter and know that your molecule changes it—that’s what I am doing.” – Baz (64:27)

• On Brand With Jimmy Fallon:

  • After going on Housewives, Jimmy Fallon tapped Baz as co-host for “On Brand” after his wife noticed her on RHOBH.
    • “People who poo-pooed me for joining Housewives...Jimmy and I got together [for On Brand] because of it.” – Baz (65:26)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Boardrooms vs. TV:

  • “The kind of shark-infested waters I’ve swum in—this is nothing in comparison.” – Baz (02:48)

• On Belonging:

  • “You cannot walk into any boardroom thinking you don’t belong there. You will fail immediately.” – Baz (06:46)

• On Unique Contribution:

  • “We all have something that makes you different in a group...if you are confident in that...you’re winning.” – Baz (08:05)

• On Widowhood & Shame:

  • “You don’t want to widow. You didn’t sign up for that...There’s a widow who’s found love again. Why would you hate her for that?” – Baz (17:29)

• On Advocacy & Pay:

  • “You shouldn’t come to me unless you believe that you are exceeding those expectations...Don’t play yourself.” – Baz (46:02)

• On Reputation:

  • “I haven’t used a resume in about 15 years...It’s always been about proving my value is more than whatever the company asked.” – Baz (54:54)

• On Her Impact:

  • “You enter the room, it is markedly different because you entered it. Why would you not stand in that?” – Baz (14:34, 64:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:40 – Baz’s challenge with Zoom and energy in leadership
• 02:11–02:44 – Weight of the Netflix CMO role vs. Housewives
• 07:43 – Teaching belonging and building confidence
• 10:11–13:01 – Empathy and finding common ground
• 14:33 – Molecule analogy for confidence
• 18:52 – Addressing shame in widowhood
• 28:02–31:20 – Parenting and fostering independence
• 33:11, 34:57 – Infertility and sharing vulnerabilities
• 37:44–39:10 – Balancing masculine and feminine energies
• 41:45–43:20 – Power, early ambition, and chasing respect
• 44:13–47:02 – Detailed advice on negotiating raises
• 54:54 – Preserving reputation without resumes
• 57:14 – The pivotal Beyoncé/Spike Lee story
• 61:49–64:27 – Transition to Housewives, and philosophy on impact
• 65:26 – "On Brand" with Jimmy Fallon and the importance of visible evolution

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Memorable and Lighthearted Moments

• On Housewives Conflict:

  • “You gotta let the drama play out...I probably needed to play out a little bit more, you know what I mean?” – Baz (05:21)

• On Showing Cleavage as an Executive:

  • “That’s why people have opinions when my breasts are out. Because they’re like, ‘You’re an executive. You shouldn’t have cleavage.’ Excuse me. I happen to love my tits.” – Baz (21:04)

• Mother-Daughter Travel Stories:

  • Baz’s daughter’s reasoning for going to Scotland: “It is the only country on the planet where their national animal is the unicorn.” (31:55)

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Takeaways

• Own your presence and know the value you bring into every room—your “molecule” changes the matter.
• Advocating for your worth, whether for a raise or in personal situations, requires both honesty and preparation.
• Vulnerability and sharing your real struggles can destroy shame and build authentic connections.
• You can be both: powerful and nurturing, ambitious and domestic, vulnerable and strong.
• Never underestimate the impact of speaking up—even as a junior team member, your idea can be transformative.

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Listen to the Full Episode

For the full, unfiltered conversation and more Baz wisdom, stream the episode on Dear Media or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Transcript

[Lauren Bostic]

Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostic. Together, they are the Bostics.

[Michael Bostic]

What a great guest to sort of kick off our show with. Okay, welcome Baz St. John to the Bostics. Damn, this woman has got it going on, let me tell you. I was so lit up in this interview, I was harassing her to come back for part two. At the end of the day, get out your notebook. You will want to take notes in this one. Baz St. John is a businesswoman. She's an entrepreneur. She's an author. She also is on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. However, she knows her way around the boardroom. She will blow you away about how to advocate for your worth and teach you how to build unshakable confidence. This episode inspired me beyond Boz. Welcome to the Bosticks.

[Lauren Bostic]

One of the most depressing moments of the pandemic was for me. So we were starting the companies around. We were going, and we had a lot of new team members. You know, like, when you work in these corporate environments.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bostic]

And we wanted to build a culture. And so we would do the company Happy Hours where we would all drink on Zoom together.

[Baz St. John]

It's too much.

[Lauren Bostic]

Too much.

[Baz St. John]

I know, I know. I did that too, by the way.

[Lauren Bostic]

Isn't that depressing?

[Baz St. John]

It was awful.

[Lauren Bostic]

What I realized is, like, even though you were on a screen talk or something, you were essentially drinking alone at your desk.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, no, Taylor, are we recording?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah, we're recording.

[Michael Bostic]

We're right into it.

[Lauren Bostic]

No, but I'm leaving that in to cover.

[Michael Bostic]

No, we can leave it in. Go ahead and leave it in.

[Lauren Bostic]

But I can't. I remember, like, people like, oh, here's my rum and Coke.

[Baz St. John]

And then one toasting to each other.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I remember I would just hang up the call, Big man. This is depressing.

[Baz St. John]

It was awful. I was the CMO of Netflix at that time, and I would have my global town halls and I couldn't see anybody. It was like I was just staring at the little green dot on my laptop and, you know, like, I'm the type of person who needs other people's energy. You know what I mean? In order to feel like, is my message landing? Like, do people understand what I'm saying? Is it funny? Are you inspired? Do you feel this is serious? Nothing.

[Michael Bostic]

What was it like being the CMO of Netflix? That's a huge title.

[Baz St. John]

What was it like? Oh, gosh. What was it? I don't know how to answer that. It's like, it's. I think every but every job, every CMO job is a big job. Especially if you're, you know, Fortune 50. I mean it's. These are big jobs. You've got boards, you've got Wall street, you know, you've got people to report to. And so it feels like a lot of pressure. I don't know how else to say it. You know, it's like every day there is no small decision.

[Michael Bostic]

What's the pressure between that and Housewives? Because I imagine there's some similar, some different girl.

[Baz St. John]

This is a cakewalk.

[Michael Bostic]

It's a cakewalk?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Really?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Housewives, the girls, trips.

[Baz St. John]

Girl, please.

[Michael Bostic]

It's a cakewalk.

[Baz St. John]

Look, the kind of shark infested waters I've swum in. This is nothing in comparison. Like we have people who are crying cause somebody said a harsh word to them. I'm like, if you'd been talked to the way I've been talked to in my career, you would never have made it.

[Michael Bostic]

I like to watch your reactions for some of the scenes. Yeah, I'm a huge connoisseur of Housewives. And your reactions kind of like narrate.

[Baz St. John]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

Like when someone was called a wimp.

[Baz St. John]

I mean, look, I don't have a poker face. And you would think that after having 25 year career in corporate, I would have more poker face. And I just don't.

[Michael Bostic]

We don't want you to have a poker face though. Please don't.

[Baz St. John]

Because I just. No, I don't know how. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Bostic]

Keep doing.

[Baz St. John]

I kind of feel like I'm just gonna react. And you've.

[Lauren Bostic]

And you've had such an extensive career which we want to dive into. Cause I think there's a ton of benefit for the people listening and watching to just learn more about what you've done. But I imagine being in that environment for so long, you just don't have time for the bs.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, right.

[Lauren Bostic]

Like you're just like cut to the,

[Baz St. John]

cut to the chase, you know, and also I think part of the challenge that I have with Housewives is that nobody is solution oriented.

[Michael Bostic]

Right, right.

[Baz St. John]

You know what I'm saying? They're not. You know, you're not in a disagreement to find the solution. You're in a disagreement to just be mad. And I have a hard time with that because obviously given my experience, it's like if you don't find a solution that costs money.

[Michael Bostic]

So give me an example of a solution that you had where there was a conflict, where you have a question every damn episode.

[Baz St. John]

Are you crazy? Crazy every time.

[Michael Bostic]

What about conversation?

[Lauren Bostic]

But wouldn't the episode. If we just followed your. Wouldn't it be, like, five minutes and be like.

[Baz St. John]

It would be a terrible show.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

You know what I mean? You gotta let the drama play out. I learned that actually pretty quickly in my first season because there was a situation pretty early on with Sutton when I said that she was weaponizing an experience to basically get at one of the others. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

And.

[Baz St. John]

And she was offended by my use of the word weaponizing. Cause she was like, I'm not weaponizing anything. So she, you know, came to me at an event, which, in I think, typical housewife fashion, it would have turned into a bigger thing. And she was basically like, I didn't like the weaponizing. And I was like, okay. Like, you know what I mean? What else do you want me to say? Like, okay, you didn't like it, and what. What do you want me to do about that? You know? And it just. She kind of just turned around and walked away. And it was one of those situations where you're just like, hmm. I guess I needed to play out a little bit more, you know what I mean? I probably.

[Michael Bostic]

You gotta learn the game. It's definitely a game. It's a formula.

[Baz St. John]

I mean, it is a formula, because what people want to see is the. And now I know they want to see the whole resolution, if there is a resolution.

[Michael Bostic]

We want to see the confidence.

[Baz St. John]

They want to see the. Like. I keep saying it's like my high school math teacher who was like, you take a test. Don't just write the answer down. I want to see your work. Right. You got to break down. Yeah. The formula. So that I know that you know the math. And that's, I believe, the formula that people want to see on the show. They want to see all of the bits that go into the disagreement into the resolution, if there is one, or the branches that break off because of said resolution.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, no, that. That is exactly what we want to see. We want to see your processes. We want to see the comments. We want to see the narratives behind each person.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

You had a really, in my opinion, an amazing first season for a housewife. You're having a good season still right now, too. So is Rachel Zo.

[Baz St. John]

I think she's having a great love Rachel.

[Michael Bostic]

People are just. They elude housewife.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

And then when you guys. When a person who comes on that doesn't elude that, it can stand out.

[Baz St. John]

Like a sore thumb girl. Yeah. Like a bad apple. Like a worm in said apple should we keep going.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, yeah. So I want to go.

[Michael Bostic]

It's just, you have to.

[Baz St. John]

The fly and the ointment. How about that?

[Michael Bostic]

It's like a charisma. It's an essence. You got to have your style.

[Baz St. John]

And I think there's a certain, you know, there's a certain confidence that comes with being in space and saying, okay, you know what? I belong in this group. Even if I don't like everybody, I belong here. And maybe to your point, you. It is one of the areas where my corporate experience has translated. Right. Because you cannot walk into any boardroom thinking you don't belong there. You will fail immediately.

[Michael Bostic]

You also can't wait.

[Lauren Bostic]

I want you to elaborate on that.

[Michael Bostic]

It's hard to. You gotta keep up, Michael.

[Lauren Bostic]

But I want you to elaborate on that.

[Michael Bostic]

You can't fake the energy either.

[Baz St. John]

No, you can't.

[Michael Bostic]

It has to be authentic. The audience can smell it.

[Baz St. John]

Yes, yes. It's the same thing. It's like my ability to walk into a room and assess it and either shift it or go along and listen is based on my belief, my core belief that I belong in the room.

[Lauren Bostic]

How much of that is natural and how much of that is learned?

[Baz St. John]

Oh, a lot of it is learned. I think a lot of it is learned.

[Michael Bostic]

Because how would you teach someone that doesn't know how to walk into a room and feel like they belong?

[Baz St. John]

Well, there's a lot of different elements. 1. You know, I do think that this is gonna sound corny to say, but we all have a unique talent or unique perspective or something that we can offer.

[Michael Bostic]

Yep.

[Baz St. John]

And many people don't believe that of themselves. That's the first issue, which is like, what is it that you actually bring? So let's say you were at a cocktail party. Take it out of a boardroom, take it out of being on tv. You go to a cocktail party and you see a group of people standing there and somebody invites you into the conversation. What are you gonna talk about? You know what I'm saying? Like, what is your thing that you're contributing? Is it. You're from Wichita? And that's an interesting thing because you happen to be in LA and everybody's in la. Great. Fantastic. Talk about that. You know, do you happen to sew, like, self taught. Beautiful. Talk about that. I think people always think that your unique characteristic needs to be like some like, higher than God type of talent. And that's the only thing that gives you value. And so my point is that, like, we all have some value. We all have something that Makes you different in a group. And therefore, that's your contribution. And if you are confident in that, you. And you live honestly in that you're winning.

[Michael Bostic]

So you would tell them to come with an. Come with something interesting that makes them unique.

[Baz St. John]

Yes. That's them.

[Michael Bostic]

That's them.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

What are other. I feel like you're so powerful when you speak. What are other little tangible tips that you can give to our audience to light up a room?

[Baz St. John]

Yes. Okay. So first thing. And this I learned also, because my family's originally from Ghana. We lived a lot of places when I was little. But we finally settled in Colorado Springs, Colorado, when I was 12. One of the biggest things that of course, now I can articulate that I couldn't when I was 12 is that I was very othered. Right. Because everybody else in the Springs is from the Springs, Even military families who move in and out felt very much connected to that place. Right. I was coming from a place that people were like, I'm sorry, where is that? And do you wear clothes there? And why did your heavy rains.

[Lauren Bostic]

You know, why did your family choose Colorado Springs of all places?

[Baz St. John]

My dad, you know, NORAD is based there and he'd done a lot of like, sub Saharan African conflict politics, you know. So anyway, there was so much that made me other that in order to survive, I had to find the commonality with people, right? So it meant that I had to become a student of pop culture. I needed to understand the Denver Broncos. I needed to know who was like topping the Billboard charts and understand the lyrics and sing the lyrics. When it came to the. When you went to the party, you know what I'm saying? I had to dress the part. Cause I needed to understand the fashion of the time. Slouch, socks. You need to be three, not two, you know what I'm saying? Like, you needed. I needed all of the information about pop culture. And it is the way in which we connect now that allows you to have commonality with people and therefore make friends immediately. So the same happens in the boardroom. You walk in and there's a bunch of people there who may not know you or maybe know you lightly. And the point is that you are trying to find points of connection, even if you're othered, even if you feel like, oh my gosh, like none of these things are like me. Your point is that you're finding a similarity somewhere, and it is not going to make you feel like you are a stranger, an alien, because you're finding something that connects you to somebody else.

[Michael Bostic]

You walk into the boardroom and there's 12 men and you walk in as you.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Explain that. What is that? What does that look like?

[Baz St. John]

Well, I think, I mean, first of all, that has happened my entire career. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

Shark infested waters.

[Baz St. John]

Yes. That we've seen. It's nothing new. And often I find that they are more curious about me than I am of them, which means that I've just got to answer that. Right. I've got to feed that curiosity. And so. And most of the time it's like what you would consider superficial things. I'm certainly not dressing like them. Right. I'm probably not using references like they use. And so if I make a reference to something in culture that they are not familiar with, then I try to make it similar to something that they know. Or it's like, you know, do they have kids? You know, we all like to talk about our children.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

You know, like we just sat, we started talking about our kids or you started telling me about yours and I'm like, oh, I can identify. And I'm nodding at you and empathizing. You can feel my empathy.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

You know, it's a human experience. Yes. And so we do not come from the same place. We probably could not be more different in our experiences in life and in our anatomy, but yet there's a connection and empathy. When you were Talking about your 6 year old and her not wanting to go to school, because I have a 16 year old and I remember those days. And so when I'm looking at you, even without communicating that you can feel that I have empathy about that situation. And so it's the same thing in every room that you walk into. There's always a human connection. I think that if you don't want that or you don't expect that, then that's when the walls come up and you can't bring them down.

[Lauren Bostic]

It's essentially what we try to do on this show for the last decade is like, to your point, we meet so many people that are so different than us, have such different backgrounds. But what you're doing in an interaction like this is you're finding that common thread and then pulling out what the rest of the humans that are listening can experience as well.

[Baz St. John]

Right.

[Lauren Bostic]

What's the takeaway? It's like we, we are interested in talking to people that have different experiences that they can share with people so that those people can enhance their lives or find some commonality or some relief or whatever it may be.

[Baz St. John]

And also there's actually big interest in difference, too. You know, I mean, especially.

[Lauren Bostic]

We would have quit a long time ago if everyone we talked to was the same as us.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, my God. Can you imagine? I mean, and that's what I find distressing about this particular time, you know, especially in the US where there's so much angst about difference, where I'm like, But guys, like, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You know, it's like if we would stop just focusing on the fact that, like, because you're different, you have different points of view, different understanding of the world, that somehow we cannot connect or we can't get along.

[Michael Bostic]

We need you to be the CMO of the country. You know what, girl, you got time.

[Baz St. John]

I know, right? Let me. Let me see. Let me see my calendar. Let's see if I could. You know, maybe.

[Lauren Bostic]

You'd probably be pretty good at it,

[Michael Bostic]

to be honest, between Housewives and Jimmy.

[Baz St. John]

I mean, squeezing a little, you know, country strategy could use a little zhuzh

[Michael Bostic]

if someone's listening right now and they want tools to be more confident. And we talked about walking in the room, but just generally more confident. I feel like you allude that on the show and in your past career.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

What would you tell them?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. You know, this ties to what I was just talking about. About, like, our uniqueness and the things that we bring. Like, there really isn't a room I walk into that I think I can't contribute to. Great. You know, it's like, because there's. There's. There is something. Everybody has something. Like, you walk into the room and actually, I'll make it like science. Okay. Physics. There's matter. We understand matter. Like your drink. Okay. If you take one molecule out the matter, take one drop out of the matter, the matter changes. You add another drop of something else into the matter, and the matter changes. We are like that. So you walk into a room, it is matter. You enter the room, it is markedly different because you entered it. Why would you not stand in that? You know, why would you not be inspired by that? You know, the room was different because you weren't in there. And I believe that fundamentally, and I believe that for everybody. The cast of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills was different before Amanda and Rachel showed up.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

And it will be different when somebody leaves.

[Lauren Bostic]

Who's leaving?

[Baz St. John]

I didn't say. I didn't say that. Now, okay, I know. I tried to cast it, but the show will be different.

[Michael Bostic]

I tried to cast it, but you're casting it.

[Baz St. John]

I didn't try to say that, but I'm saying, you know, it will be different.

[Michael Bostic]

Well, don't. When somebody's gone, don't take out you and Kathy Hilton.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, Kathy Hilton is.

[Michael Bostic]

Don't take out you and Kathy Hilton.

[Baz St. John]

I love that woman so much.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, she's so wonderful.

[Michael Bostic]

You gotta sprinkle a little Dorit.

[Baz St. John]

You got Torit, you know, an activated dorit.

[Michael Bostic]

You and Dorit.

[Baz St. John]

I didn't know dorit before. I only know the activated version.

[Lauren Bostic]

So.

[Michael Bostic]

She's spicy.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, she's super spicy. I love it.

[Michael Bostic]

She's stepping into her power.

[Baz St. John]

I love a spicy woman.

[Michael Bostic]

I like your friendship with her. It's cute. You guys have a cute friendship.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. And you know what's so funny about that is that I told her this. So this is nothing new, but. Or when she hears this, she won't be like, oh, my God. But I don't know if we would have been friends if we met five years ago.

[Michael Bostic]

Why?

[Baz St. John]

Well, because life was different, you know, she was in different space and I was in a different space. But now we are at a moment where like, literally the first moment we met, we were already like trauma dumping on each other. You know what I'm saying? It was like, she was like, girl, I'm separated, I'm going through a divorce. I was like, girl, my husband died. You know what I mean? It was like we could connect on loss and a change in life as you knew it. And so I had immense empathy for the situation she was in, whereas some of the other women couldn't really identify.

[Michael Bostic]

Why did you decide to open up about something so personal? Was that a. A conscious decision?

[Baz St. John]

No, I think it was an emotional decision. I could feel that she needed it, you know, she needed to know that somebody else had had the rug pulled from under them.

[Michael Bostic]

When you opened up about your husband, did you get an influx of DMs? I can imagine.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, yes.

[Michael Bostic]

People were so.

[Baz St. John]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, my gosh, yes. So many people. I mean, the thing is that it's not a club anybody wants to be a part of. You don't wann widow. You know, you didn't. You didn't sign up for that. It's a very strange place to be because there is so much shame attached to it, which is weird. Well, I think because people feel like. And I don't think it's a new thing. I think it's actually a centuries old behavior that has been passed down in time, you know, because back in the day, widows were shunned, you know, Were, like, absorbed into. Into the family and, like, shut away. You're only supposed to wear black for the rest of your life. And so this is a new phenomenon for women to be out, you know, and think about the. I'll put, like, imagine if Vanessa Bryant started dating somebody. People would be after her. That's Ko. That's Kobe's widow. You can't touch her, you know, you gotta leave her alone. I saw the other day Twitch. His wife is engaged, I think. And the amount of vitriol that has come her way now, I don't know the woman. I don't know what their relationship was like, but all I know is that there's a widow who's found love again. Why would you hate her for that?

[Michael Bostic]

You know, I had never thought of that. You're so. Right now.

[Baz St. John]

And so there's like a shroud that you wear. And so it's like a primal thing where people.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, yeah.

[Baz St. John]

And so it opened up the door when I'm standing tall and being able to express that I'm a widow and I'm still living my life. I still love my life. I've come a long way now. Lord have mercy. But I've. I'm loving life, and I love every day that I'm here. And so. And I don't. I don't need to be ashamed of that. I don't need to hide it. I don't need to cry every day in order to honor my dead husband. You know what I'm saying? That, like, there's that kind of shame that society puts on you. And so the women in my DMs and some men in my DMs have been amazing in, you know, sort of forming a community of support.

[Michael Bostic]

What a beautiful example, too, to set for your daughter.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

To show your daughter, like, it's almost like you Rose like a phoenix.

[Baz St. John]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

It's such a good example for your daughter to see you thriving in your life and doing so many different projects and everything that you've got going on.

[Lauren Bostic]

Because what's the. I guess the alternative and the expectation is what you. You shut out and shut down and shut down. And you can't do that.

[Baz St. John]

Like, you can't. You can't.

[Lauren Bostic]

You got a whole life ahead of you.

[Baz St. John]

Well, I mean, but I. But that is the expectation, you know, because think about this even. Right? Like, after my husband died, four months after he had died, I moved from New York to Los Angeles for a new job. Right.

[Lauren Bostic]

Was that cathartic to leave the.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, I Had to leave New York.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

I mean, every corner reminded me of him. I was dying there. I had to leave. You can imagine the amount of judgment that I got.

[Michael Bostic]

Really?

[Baz St. John]

People were like, you know, and is

[Lauren Bostic]

this judgment from strangers or people?

[Baz St. John]

Strangers, family. Everybody has an opinion. You know, it's like, shouldn't you just sit down for a year? Just heal? Shouldn't you just. Don't do anything. Just. You're probably going through a mental breakdown, so just calm down. Don't go anywhere. And they don't say it because they hate you. They're saying it because they love you and they're trying to protect you.

[Michael Bostic]

I also think it's people projecting what they would do onto you.

[Baz St. John]

But, girl, they wouldn't even do it. That's the problem. They're projecting an idea that they have of what the perfect widow should be.

[Michael Bostic]

Right.

[Baz St. John]

Or the perfect businesswoman should be. That's why people, like, have opinions when my breasts are out. Because they're like, you're an executive. You shouldn't have cleavage. Excuse me. I happen to love my tits.

[Michael Bostic]

Some titties out.

[Baz St. John]

And they're good.

[Michael Bostic]

I like when.

[Baz St. John]

Girl, they are. There are some good ones. I'm telling you, girl. Girl, I ain't got nothing done to them. And they are sitting. 49 years old and they're up here.

[Lauren Bostic]

Girl, put this barrier. Stay down. The barrier.

[Michael Bostic]

These are natural.

[Baz St. John]

These are natural. And they sit.

[Michael Bostic]

Watch the YouTube guy.

[Baz St. John]

And they.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm trying.

[Lauren Bostic]

I'm not trying to. They're sitting.

[Baz St. John]

They sit.

[Lauren Bostic]

I'm trying. I'm trying to just be like this, right?

[Baz St. John]

I'm up. I'm up. That's how I'm looking at her. This is an A and B conversation right here. Exactly. I'm not talking to you right now. I'm only talking to her. Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

You can appreciate great tits. I mean, the whole time I was looking at them, I was like, wow, those are some beautiful boobs.

[Baz St. John]

They're so good. You know, And I like to show,

[Lauren Bostic]

now that we've addressed it, I could get rid of this note card. Just kidding.

[Michael Bostic]

Taylor's back there beating his meat.

[Baz St. John]

Hilarious.

[Michael Bostic]

If something can elevate my day and make me feel more aligned, I'm in. And I have been driving with my kids a lot in the cars to pick up to activities, to the dentist. Our dentist is two hours away, which we'll get to in an episode soon. But when I'm driving, I always stop by Starbucks and my specific order, because, you know I'm going to give it to you. Is the new iced lavender cream Matcha. Oh, my God, it's so good. It's like smooth, topped with this subtle lavender cold foam. It just feels chic, elevated, floral, fresh. And honestly, I feel like it's like spring in a cup. I am so in love with this. I actually text my friend the other day and I was like, you have to try it. It's also so pretty. The best part to me about Starbucks is that you can customize what you want. So I can adjust the sweetness or change the milk to really make it my own. And the sweetness I like to make very, very light. I like it to feel, like, refreshing, so it still tastes amazing. It just feels more refined and intentional. I recommended this drink too, to some of the girls on our team, and they all loved it. It's perfectly balanced and I have no notes, and that's rare. You go in Starbucks and you create something that feels completely your own and personalized. And for me, with Starbucks, I make it work for my routine and I customize my order. I. You can customize and edit as you please. That's what I love about Starbucks. So this spring, find your flavor and make Starbucks part of your ritual. And definitely check out the new iced lavender cream Matcha. Oh, my gosh, I'm obsessed.

[Lauren Bostic]

Let's talk about one of our favorite platforms, and that is Wayfair. Spring is here. It's time to do some spring cleaning, and you can refresh your space and make your home work better for you with Wayfair. From furniture and decor to organized solutions and outdoor essentials, Wayfair makes it easy to find exactly what fits your style and needs. Recently, Lauren and I have been cleaning out our closets and organizing them. What I love about Wayfair is they have all these different closet systems, storage solutions, and garage organization units that can help you get everything where you can find it in the right place. It's also a great opportunity to go through and just organize your entire space, which is going to give you more peace of mind and make you feel better living in your space. Of course, they have so much more than organization. They have outdoor furniture, patio, decor, lighting, bedding, playroom organization, bedroom updates, desks. They have all sorts of different things. Chairs, all in one place and all cost effective. They make it simple to narrow down exactly what works for your style. And they have all sorts of visual tools to get you the right fit for your space. They also have insulation and assembly services available for a truly seamless experience. You don't have to stress out and worry about putting everything together. And thousands of five star reviews help you shop with confidence. It's a platform you can trust. It's convenient, it's easy. And again, it's cost effective. So check them out. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Michael Bostic]

Did you guys know that over almost 90% of new parents on bobi are combo feeding? That is crazy. So a lot of people are doing combo feeding now. Bobby is a really incredible formula. Okay. It's organic, it's European style. It's clinically crafted to mirror breast milk. And in it, I've learned this again by interviewing the founder. I got to really dig deep. Is a naturally occurring MFGM and DHA and choline and this supports the baby's brain development. And it also has a 6040 weighted casein protein blend for easy healthy digestion. I think this brand is really thought of everything when it comes to formula. If you're going the formula route, I would definitely check them out. It's a really good one. If you're going to combo feed or you just want to do formula. I feel like this conversation should be really open. It shouldn't be taboo. And I think that this one is such a gem because every single batch of Bobby goes through 2,000 plus safety and quality checks before leaving their US manufacturing facility. It was also named top choice by Consumer Reports after extensive testing for heavy metals and chemicals. To me as a mom, I want to know if there's a bunch of heavy metals and chemicals in my kids food. If you want to feed with confidence, head to hi bobby.com that's hibobi.com to find the formula trusted by parents and loved by their babies. 700k and counting. Hi Bobby dot com.

[Baz St. John]

Thy ticket lady, Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks good sir. Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs. Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Getth with the times. With the times. You're playing the loot. Yeah. And it's. That sounds pretty good, right?

[Michael Bostic]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places

[Baz St. John]

that take credit cards nationwide based on

[Michael Bostic]

the February 2025 Nielsen report. Okay, so what do you want to instill in your daughter? I'm sure you're very intentional about that.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, oh my God, girl. In so many ways I've been intentional with her. I can tell you that, like, from. From the moment I became a single mother, which was terrifying to me because I. And I've been honest about this, I don't mind sharing it here, which is that I was not the one who wanted to start a family. My husband was, you know, and I found it very, very difficult in those early days. I found it almost impossible, you know, And I was kind of like, I've been thrust into this and now I've gotta raise this person. But I'm ambitious and I want a career and, you know, like, I don't want it to slow me down. And I had people at the office who were advising me that I shouldn't have pictures of my daughter up because people would think that I wasn't committed enough to the job. I mean, it was just like.

[Lauren Bostic]

And how deep into your ex were you when you had your first kid?

[Baz St. John]

I was 32 years old, so I was about a decade in.

[Lauren Bostic]

Okay.

[Baz St. John]

So when Peter died, Lael was four. And I was looking at her like, what in the hell am I supposed to do now? Like, how am I supposed to raise this person by myself? Like, this was his idea. Wasn't even my idea. And then on top of it, I felt like it would stop me from being able to do all of the things I want to do. Because as a single parent now, you are wholly responsible. If I need to travel for a business trip, how am I gonna do that? You know, you were just talking about leaving your daughter in Texas. I'm like, how would I do that? Who would watch her? There was no support. And so I changed my mindset pretty early, like, with her in that I actually told her quite bluntly. I was like, girl, I don't know how to do this. I just. I don't know. And you're gonna have to tell me about things you need. She was 4. And I was having this very adult conversation. I mean, we were sitting down, you know, and the ways that I made that into reality were things like opening up my calendar and actually letting her have responsibility in it. So being like, if you need me to be at the school, like, for whatever, you gotta tell me. And it's gotta be really important because I have to do other things, other places. Like, I wasn't gonna be ashamed of my ambition, but I was like, you gonna have to tell me. And then I will put it on the thing and I will be there. Okay? But it can't be every day. It can't even be every week. You know, we gotta really make choices. And even at 4, she felt the respect that I had for her, you know, and that I would respect her enough to respect her wishes. And now, 12 years later, we still behave that way, I think, with children.

[Lauren Bostic]

And maybe this. I don't know if this has been your experience. The more you explain to them the reasons why things are important, the reason why you need to do things, I think. And again, I don't want to tell their parents how to parent. But what I've noticed as a parent myself, is when you kind of try to not tell them and like, oh, and kind of like, shield them, then they get upset.

[Baz St. John]

They don't know. And they're so smart, you know, or things like, you know, when I got into a position where I was making a lot of money and, you know, she can have anything that she wants, I decided to switch up her birthday presents. Cause I was like. All I could see was, like, this mountain of gifts that she was getting for me and her aunts and friends and all that. And three months later, they were discarded. And so I was like, you know what? Actually, no more birthday presents or birthday parties. And she was like, you know, obviously very upset. But I was like, here's what we're gonna do. You are going to pick a place in the world that you want to go. That will be my gift to you. You will have to present why you want to go there, and it'll have to make sense. You come up with an itinerary, and then my job is to get you there and to do the itinerary. She started doing that when she was about four also.

[Lauren Bostic]

She'll remember that way more than the

[Baz St. John]

little, oh, yeah, we've had some adventures. Oh, we've had such a good time.

[Michael Bostic]

She's so independent. Based on everything you're saying, I can see the foresight of that. Being a really independent. Very much.

[Baz St. John]

Very much. And someone who thinks, you know, very clearly and is also intentional. Like, we don't do things just to do them. I mean, obviously there's spontaneity. And, you know, we like to get up some days and be like, oh, we're gonna go do this thing or do that thing. But also, it's like, why do you want that thing? Or why do you wanna go there? Or why are you friends with that person?

[Michael Bostic]

What's the best place you guys have gone?

[Baz St. John]

When she was 10, she presented that she wanted to go to Scotland. And she does, like, a presentation. Like, it's like, you know, that's cool. But her rationale was because it is the only country on the planet where their national animal is the unicorn.

[Michael Bostic]

Are unicorns real, girl?

[Baz St. John]

The Scottish think so. I was shocked.

[Michael Bostic]

Take me to Scotland.

[Baz St. John]

So the entire itinerary was to go find the unicorns, the fairies, all kind of woodland creature.

[Michael Bostic]

You might have to send me that itinerary, girl.

[Baz St. John]

So good. Oh, we had such a good time.

[Lauren Bostic]

And it's beautiful over there, right?

[Baz St. John]

Oh, my God, it was gorgeous. Oh, we went to the castles. We were in the forest.

[Michael Bostic]

Are the guys hot?

[Baz St. John]

Girl, I wouldn't look at no men. Oh, okay.

[Michael Bostic]

I don't know.

[Lauren Bostic]

What is that relevant to you, Lauren?

[Michael Bostic]

I'm just wondering if, like, what the aesthetic is.

[Baz St. John]

I know, right? Well, maybe. Maybe that will be, like, our plan when she's a little older.

[Lauren Bostic]

Could you imagine if I was over here? I'd be like, okay, we're gonna. Are the girls hot? And be like, what's going on with this guy?

[Michael Bostic]

I'm just wondering for the audience's sake. They wanna know. They're wondering, you know what?

[Baz St. John]

I bet they are. You know, they, like, be outside. They're, you know, like, I feel like they are probably rugged.

[Michael Bostic]

Rugged.

[Baz St. John]

That's what I would assume.

[Michael Bostic]

We like rugged.

[Baz St. John]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

Why did you decide to open up about your fertility journey? Was that, again, a choice?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was a very big choice. Gosh, there's so many reasons, but I think the main one is that, again, sort of overcoming ideas of shame, you know, that, like, I've already broached the topic of widowhood and trying to tear down the shame that comes along with it. And infertility is another one. It's a really, really big one. I've had more response to this vulnerability than probably anything else I've ever talked about. So many people who've been like, thank you so much for saying this out loud. I went through this myself. I didn't tell a soul. You know, there's so much shame in it because people feel like if you're a woman, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to just naturally get pregnant. I'm like, girl, I never had an easy pregnancy in my life. You know, it's like, my mom had four daughters just like that. You know, her mom had five just like that. Like, there's. The women in my family give birth easily. And so I had difficult pregnancies and then found myself in a situation, you know, where it's like, I didn't have a partner and I wanted more kids, but, you know, didn't Want to do it without one. Finally found my person again, and I want a family with him, but I am old, and it doesn't come natural. And so I've got to put in the extra effort to get pregnant, and there shouldn't be any shame in that. But also, the people who are judgmental, who. I can totally understand why people don't want to share this type of stuff. You know, folks will tell you all kind of things, like, you're too old to do it. Why would you want to put your body through that? Shouldn't you get a surrogate? Why don't you adopt? I'm like, it's none of your goddamn business what I do with my body.

[Michael Bostic]

A lot of opinions.

[Baz St. John]

It's a lot of opinions. But then on the flip side, the amount of people who've been like, God, like, thank you so much, because it is difficult, it is lonely, and it is sad. And on a recent episode, I talked about how, you know, we were able to fertilize two eggs. They became embryos, but then didn't make it to the blast stage. And I, in my confessional, I said that it felt like grief to me. It felt like we lost babies. And the amount of responses I got, people were like, I couldn't articulate it that way before, and people told me not to be sad because they weren't real kids. And like, all. And I was just like, oh, my God. Like, this is why I share it. Because it's not that I'm braver than other people. It's just that I want to get rid of all of this shame that we have around so many identities that I happen to have. And I'm like, we don't need to be ashamed of that.

[Michael Bostic]

Has this been almost therapeutic and liberating for you to share all this?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah, for sure.

[Michael Bostic]

I would think so. It's, like, almost feels, like, refreshing for you.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. Because I also. I also don't want to. I don't believe in hiding the things in our lives that are hard. When I was leaving or when I was in. In my job at Netflix, right before I left, I was writing my book, my memoir. And every publisher wanted me to write the, like, how to get to the corporate. The corner office in heels, you know, how to be a boss chick. And I was like, I'm not writing that book. You know, I might one day, but I'm not writing it now. I wanted to write the book about my grief and my loss because I was like, look, yes, you can have all of these things. That can knock you down and make you feel like you can never make it, but you can. Like, that's the story. I want you to know. I want you to know that, like, even as a leader, you can be empathetic. You can show people the hard stuff and the. And the messy stuff and still be able to command, you know, because it's like, as a leader, you're expected to be so fierce. Like, you're supposed to know every answer. Immovable. But it's like, look, we human, too. We dealing with little kids that get sick, and therefore you can't make it to the meeting on time. We're dealing with breakups that break your heart and make you not want to get up in the morning. We're dealing with fights with your mom that make you frustrated about the choices you've made in life. Like, we're dealing with a lot of stuff, so we should all be more open about it.

[Michael Bostic]

I think one of the reasons I have wanted you on this show for so bad, I really have. I think I've harassed you a couple times in your DMs. But what I like about you as a viewer is that you're very comfortable in your masculine, but you're also really comfortable in your feminine.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

And you don't see that a lot. You either see one or the other.

[Baz St. John]

Right.

[Michael Bostic]

And for me, what I like watching you is I feel like you're such a boss, but then you also, in your relationship, you are feminine.

[Baz St. John]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

At home, you're feminine. You're all about. You're a homemaker.

[Baz St. John]

Yes. Oh, absolutely.

[Michael Bostic]

I relate to that. I really related to that. It's refreshing. How do you balance both of those things so well?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah, well, I really love it, you know? Like, I love making a home. And I think, again, like, I feel like this is a recurring theme about shame. I don't know how we got here, but here we are. You know, is that like, again, it's like if you're, you know, a boss chicken and you're strong somehow, you can't be soft, you can't be vulnerable. You know, you can't do the things that, you know are considered traditional at home. Because, God forbid, you're a feminist and you also like to bake. You know what I'm saying? Like, why can't we do both? Why can't I ask my. My man if he wants something to eat and me make it? Like, I enjoy that and that is okay. Like, and he does other things for me. It's all right. Like, we can do both things. And so for me, there is no shame in accepting the fact that I am a homemaker. And I also happen to have had quite a few CMO jobs. I can be both of those things.

[Michael Bostic]

I relate to it. I love it. I'm like, I'm not a trad wife, but I'm trad ish. Trad ish. And I love my home is, like, so important to me. But I also have a lot of ambition.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Again, like, I like to have.

[Baz St. John]

Can you come up with a new term, tradition? I think we should. We should girl do something with that.

[Lauren Bostic]

But you know what?

[Michael Bostic]

Wait, hold on. Is it On Brand? Should I pitch it to On Brand?

[Baz St. John]

I see what you did there. I see what you did. Well, you might be.

[Lauren Bostic]

But I mean, I look at this and I like that I have a strong woman that's chasing her ambition and her career and all those things, but at the same time, like, sometimes in the bedroom or in the house, I don't want that all the time. Same way as maybe she wouldn't want me to be super feminine all the time. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

Like that we should have the balance about your hair. So that's enough for me.

[Baz St. John]

Well, that's incredible.

[Lauren Bostic]

Thank you.

[Baz St. John]

It is good hair, though.

[Lauren Bostic]

Thank you.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, I think so, too.

[Baz St. John]

It's really, really good.

[Lauren Bostic]

But no, I think, you know, there's sometimes a narrative, especially these days, pushed on men and women, that you have to be one or the other. And I think it's harmful.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, it's very harmful.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah. And I think in a relationship, people can't ignore evolution.

[Baz St. John]

Right.

[Lauren Bostic]

Like, we did evolve, living as man and wife in a certain kind of way. I'm not saying it has to be.

[Michael Bostic]

I also want you to go out and kill the tiger and drag it back to me.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah, exactly. I also want you to jump in front of me. There's some sort of assailant.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bostic]

If someone breaks into the house and I'm like, lauren, grab him.

[Baz St. John]

Absolutely not. You better go down there, go see what's going on. Yeah.

[Lauren Bostic]

And so I think, you know, sometimes. And again, we get these conversations pop up on the show all the time. And, you know, people bash the trad wife and then they bash the Lord.

[Michael Bostic]

You know, let everyone be who they are.

[Baz St. John]

Exactly. And that's my point, is that I don't think there is a bashing of one or the other. I think also because I grew up in a household where my mom was a homemaker, you know, she decided to give up her career to be a wife and to raise four kids. And she was phenomenal at it, you know, And I have a lot of respect for that. I don't think she, like, wasted her life or like, oh, my God, she could have been the CEO of this company or she could have done that. Like, I think she is incredible at what she did. Oh. And so I have so much respect for that. That. How could I see that as a bad thing in myself? Yeah.

[Lauren Bostic]

You know, there's like, some people grow up and look at that, and it's kind of like there's like a self loathing.

[Baz St. John]

Right.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I think that's harmful.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bostic]

Speaking earlier on, your ambition, in the early days of your career, what were you chasing? Was it the financial security? Was it the title? Was it the control?

[Baz St. John]

What.

[Lauren Bostic]

What was your early ambition? What did it look like?

[Baz St. John]

I think my early, early, early ambition was power. You know, I wanted to be in charge. I didn't like feeling like people didn't respect me. It happened so often.

[Michael Bostic]

That's so honest.

[Lauren Bostic]

Just like a little chip on the

[Baz St. John]

shoulder in the beginning. Yeah. Because, like, so many times I was dismissed. Right. Or like, you know, you're in a meeting and you have an idea and somebody talks over you or they ignore your idea and then somebody else says it, and then they start praising that person. Oh, man, it happens so often. So I wanted power. Cause I was like, I need to be the one when I walk in the room. I need the room to shift to me.

[Lauren Bostic]

And when did you first feel you had that power?

[Baz St. John]

Ugh, that's a very hard question, because I think I've had to fight for it at every stage.

[Michael Bostic]

But you've done some things that are gnarly. Like, you said, you had a podcast with Katie Couric. You are doing a show with Jimmy Fallon, and the CMO of Netflix is not a small role. So I'm not.

[Lauren Bostic]

But I mean, like, not to read your whole bio here, but you've been. You've been at Endeavor, img, ufc, Miss Universe. You've been obviously at Netflix, at Pepsi.

[Michael Bostic]

Like, you go hang out with Dana White.

[Baz St. John]

No, I didn't.

[Michael Bostic]

Ugh.

[Baz St. John]

I did not.

[Michael Bostic]

I like him.

[Baz St. John]

He's very charismatic.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yes, he was on the show. We had fun with him.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, was he?

[Lauren Bostic]

We had fun with him.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. Yeah. No, he's so charismatic. I didn't. I didn't get a chance to hang out with him.

[Michael Bostic]

I feel like you two would be fun.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, my God. I'm sure. Because he's a little crazy also.

[Lauren Bostic]

But, I mean, when you list out all of your accomplishments. I mean, you could go on and on. And so it's interesting to hear you say that there was not like a moment where you felt.

[Baz St. John]

No, I think I've had feelings of power. But it is probably also what has driven my ambition to go again and again and again and again is that I haven't felt like I have achieved it. And so I'm always searching for it. And I think at some point also, it switched to a combination of money and power. You know, it's like. It's why I talk to so many women about raises and promotions and, you know, how to negotiate. I did an interview once with Gayle King where I think on air, she asked me how to ask how she could ask for a raise. And I was like, girl, how does

[Michael Bostic]

someone ask for a raise?

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. First of all, you.

[Michael Bostic]

Mackenzie's in the room. How does mackenzie ask for a raise?

[Baz St. John]

Mackenzie, first of all, let me tell you something, okay? You understand the landscape of what everybody makes in the industry, okay? And then you beat that by 30%.

[Lauren Bostic]

All right, let's move on to the next segment.

[Baz St. John]

And that's. And that is what you ask for. That is your target. You don't back down from that. So it means that when you ask, you go another 20% higher so that you can back down to the 30%.

[Lauren Bostic]

MacKenzie will probably get it because she's great. She's one of my favorites.

[Baz St. John]

But you also have to be able to back it up. Don't be a dummy out here. And then be asking for a 50% raise. You see what I'm saying?

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, sometimes. Sometimes people do. Oh, what's going on with that?

[Baz St. John]

Can we talk about that?

[Michael Bostic]

I want to. There's an appropriate amount when you go to past your mark.

[Baz St. John]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

What does that look like?

[Baz St. John]

Well, here's the thing. Is that you. That's what I'm saying. You gotta be worth your salt, right? So. And don't. Don't play yourself, okay? This takes a lot of honesty with self before you go up in there. Now, a lot of people. No, a lot of women suffer from undervaluing themselves. And so they're actually overqualified. Because as a leader, I can tell you, the more men came into my office to ask for raises than women, hands down, probably three to one. Wow. Also, by the time the woman came to ask for a raise, she was way past her qualifications for it. I mean, men would come in there, had worked there three days, hadn't learned a goddamn thing, and would be like, oh, you know, I think I deserve 25% more. Get your ass back in your office. What you doing in here? What are you even talking about? You know what I mean? And so it's like, I think women undervalue themselves so much. So first it's like, you really do have to have the honest, honest, honest conversation. How am I performing in this job?

[Lauren Bostic]

And how do you get. I mean, I'm gonna do this as an employer. I'm gonna have the conversation with you two ways. So if somebody comes to you and they say, listen, I feel undervalued and I want X amount, what are the things that you're telling them to be? To get them to be honest with themselves about what their real value is. And then you as the boss making the decision, what is the pushback or feedback you're giving them?

[Baz St. John]

I mean, well, first of all, it's like if I'm the boss, right, I probably know what the job requirements are and I understand whether or not you've met them. So first of all, you shouldn't come to me unless you believe that you are exceeding those expectations. Because if you're not, I will tell you that you're not. And then you're probably gonna go home and cry. You know what I mean?

[Lauren Bostic]

That's playing yourself right there.

[Baz St. John]

Yes, you are playing yourself. So it's like if you're coming to me as, you know, the employee and saying, hey, look, I feel undervalued here because I'm hitting this mark and that mark and that mark, by the way, you have to come with like, you

[Lauren Bostic]

can't just feel I'm undervalued.

[Baz St. John]

No, come with tactical, like examples of how you think you over delivered. And it can't be one time, it can't be two times, it can't be three times. It has to be consistent over time. And then you can come and say, hey, look, I'm overperforming here. I keep doing the thing that you told me to do, and I add 15% effort to it. I am beating every key performance indicator you've said. So I believe I deserve a raise.

[Lauren Bostic]

What if someone comes to you and you say, I've been here for two

[Baz St. John]

years and you probably did nothing? Well, I.

[Michael Bostic]

What you're saying is that being somewhere for two years doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean anything to a raise?

[Baz St. John]

No, absolutely. Ten year does not mean you get paid more.

[Michael Bostic]

So you have to add extra value to.

[Baz St. John]

You have to have got it impact over a tenure.

[Lauren Bostic]

Kim Kardashian got shit for saying you Gotta work. You're out. Like right, everyone's.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

She said people don't want to work.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I think I get what she's saying.

[Michael Bostic]

Not everybody, but I get what she's saying.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, well, there was a moment in time where like the, you know, I think people were not being honest with themselves.

[Michael Bostic]

No, they were not. Requests for coaching.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I, you know, as somebody who's had to work for a long time and you know, build things and use yourself, I think the hardest conversations are when people come and say like I'm wor. And it's what you're saying, I've been here, but there's no examples. And I put in the time and what I have to go back and say and I'm sure you've had is, well, give me an example of how you're contributing in a way that show

[Baz St. John]

me how you're making impact above and beyond the job qualifications. Doing the job alone is not enough to get a raise. It really is not. You have to exceed the expectations. So I'm like, like you're doing the job description. Congratulations, you get a paycheck.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's because that's your payment.

[Baz St. John]

You want a bigger paycheck, you gotta do bigger.

[Lauren Bostic]

Branch Basics. I don't know what I would do, what we would do without this company. We have been talking for years, close to a decade now, or actually it's been a decade, about health and wellness and how to take care of ourselves. What if I were to tell you that the way you're cleaning your home could also potentially be harming you? Well, that's if you're using toxic chemical hormone disrupting cleaning supplies, which many people are. But with Branch Basics you don't have to worry about it because Branch Basics is made from plant and mineral based ingredients and Branch Basics is human, safe and fragrance free, making it perfect for families, especially those with babies, kids or pets, the ones that are crawling and closest to the floor. And ever since we had the founder of Branch Basics on this show and learned that there's a healthier alternative for cleaning the home, we have not looked back. It is such a no brainer to make the swap. You get the same clean house, the same clean environment, but without all of these toxic, harmful chemicals that we're learning so much about so you can sleep well at night knowing you're doing right for yourself and your family. The Branch Basics refill model makes it even easier to keep your home clean year round. Once you run out, all you need to restock is the concentrate available at Target, Amazon and BranchBasics.com making it more convenient than ever to have human safe cleaning products. And here's the good news. Branch Basics is now available everywhere you shop. At target, target.com, amazon and of course branchbasics.com tossing the toxins has never been more convenient. And for anyone grabbing the premium starter kit, you can still get 15% [e-mail] with our code Skinny15. Just use code Skinny15 for 15% off the premium starter [e-mail] after you purchase. When they ask where you heard about them, please make sure to mention our show again. That's Branch Basics.com promo code skinny15 every

[Michael Bostic]

single Friday night my family and I do family movie night and we always do popcorn. And in our popcorn always like it's a tradition at this point we do milk chocolate gems. And since we do this every single week, I like to be thoughtful about it. So enter Unreal. Unreal is on a mission to unjunct the world, starting with chocolate. And their chocolate is so good. I'm telling you, these milk chocolate gems are such a hit in my house. We put them in popcorn, we add sea salt on top of them. We've made cookies, we put them in rice krispie treats. We even will like. I'll put some in my kids lunch every day and I don't have to worry about it because this brand is really thought of everything. There's zero artificial preservatives, zero artificial flavors, zero artificial colors. And almost all their products are vegan too. They're gluten free, non GMO and kosher. So what my kids and I like to do is yes, the popcorn situation, but we also like to put their chocolate, they have like a peanut butter cup that's so delicious. I like the red one. It's so, so good. You can't go wrong. And we put them in the freezer and they're like just melt in your mouth. And the cool thing about this brand is they've made everything taste so delicious. My whole family is the biggest fan of Unreal. You can find Unreal products anywhere. Cravings hit, including at Whole Foods, Target, Costco and any grocery stores. As a special offer for our listeners, visit unrealsnacks.com skinny to get $2 off a bag of Unreal. Terms and conditions apply.

[Lauren Bostic]

Let's talk about yet another way to take care of yourself and your family and make sure that you're not harming your body, your health or the ones you love. More people are paying attention to what their home products are made with. So many of These products contain PFAs, PTFEs, and PFOAs and these forever chemicals are causing all sorts of health complications. More and more data and research is coming out about this stuff. It's clear all we have to do is look at the health trend in this country. This is why Lauren and I switched all of our cookware, all of our cooking supplies and all of our food storage to Caraway. We had the founder of Caraway on this podcast talking all about the ways that they're creating a healthier home by creating products that are actually good for you and that do not have these chemicals that leach into our food and then ultimately into our bodies. Because you use your cookware every day and it should make life easier, not harder. We love all their products with some of the standout stars are their butcher blocks. They're made of thick premium wood so you don't have to worry about microplastics getting into your body and into your food. They also make these glass containers that we store all of our food in so you're not seeping plastic into your food. Again. Gross. These glass lids are made with premium tempered glass for clean cooking with a view. And they also have bakeware, cookware, skillets, pots, pans. Their ceramics are a naturally slick surface, which means you can use minimal oil or butter for slide off the pan, eggs and easy cleaning. I love cooking my eggs on the Caraway skillet. It's one of my favorite things to do and don't just take from me. Caraway is in over 2 million homes and over 150,000 people have rated 5 stars about their Caraway kitchen. Now it's time to try it for yourself. Caraway's cookware set is a favorite for a reason. It can save you up to $230 versus buying the items individually. Plus if you visit carawayhome.com skinnypod10 you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners, so visit carawayhome.com skinnypod10 or use code skinnypod10 at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Kitchenware Made Modern the

[Michael Bostic]

Skinny Confidential is doing its five year anniversary sale 30% off site wide. Here's what I would get. I would definitely get our ice roller. It's reimagined. It's beautiful. It's like baby pink. It has a little navy detail. I use it every single morning to depuff. I do not miss a morning. I wouldn't dare put on skincare without ice rolling. If you want to lift your face, tighten your face, depuff your face. This ice roller is the best, in my opinion, on the market. I truly thought of every single detail with the team. And you're gonna die over the new packaging. We also have new merch. I'm not even gonna tell you what that is. Go look at it. It's the anniversary collection. Shop. The anniversary sale with 30% off. Community Favorites shopskinnyconfidential.com so for you personally,

[Lauren Bostic]

as you started to map your career, what did those conversations typically look like for your employers?

[Baz St. John]

Well, it was. I think it's a little. It was a little different for me because I found that I couldn't necessarily get big raises the way I wanted them. Like I said, at some point, my ambition changed from just power to also money. I wanted exponential raises, and I couldn't get it at the places I were, so I had to quit and get another job.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's a good segment. I had one thing on our notes that I wanted to talk to you about. You've been at a lot of places, but you've kept a really good reputation, and people speak very highly of you and your career. From what we've learned, how have you maintained that? Because sometimes people leave a job in a messy way and they burn bridges, and it seems like you've been able to kind of move throughout your career without doing that.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this. I think one of the biggest examples of the fact that I do have a good reputation is that I haven't used a resume in about 15 years.

[Michael Bostic]

Wow.

[Baz St. John]

You know, it's like, nobody asked me for that. Yeah. When Ted Sarando said Netflix called and said, hey, you know, we're thinking about changing our cmo and we would like. He didn't say, can I see your resume? You know what I'm saying? It was that he had. He had heard and seen the impact I'd had at Endeavor with Ari Emanuel and was like, hey, we actually need your talent here. And for me, it's always been about proving the fact that my value is more than whatever the company has asked me to do. So I have embodied what I am telling people to do. It's like, if the job is to come in and change the way people use the word Uber, I'm gonna come and make it a colloquialism.

[Michael Bostic]

With all the powerful people that you've worked with, who has had the most impact on you? Who are the ones where you're like, damn, that person Taught me abcd.

[Baz St. John]

I think without Spike Lee, I don't know that I would have known early on how impactful I am, you know? So Spike was my first boss. I was an assistant at his ad agency in New York City, and I was taking a break between undergraduate school and medical school because I'd taken mcat. I was gonna become a doctor, and. I know. And I. I went to New York, and I. My parents were not gonna fund this, so I had to get a job. I was Spike Lee's assistant, and he was pitching the PepsiCo business through his advertising agency because he was in between, like, his movie director roles, he was shooting commercials. So he was pitching PepsiCo as a client and asked around the office, you know, who should be the, you know, main person, who should be the spokesperson. And people were going up on Billboard charts and trying to find, you know, the hottest actress and this and that. And I had seen Carmen, the hip opera, on mtv. It was a TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles and Makai Pfeiffer. And Beyonce, at the time, was coming out of Destiny's Child. She wants to be a solo act. Solo act and an actress. And she was getting panned. I mean, people were like, she's never gonna make it. Like, you know, the only successful solo artist coming out of girl group, Diana Ross.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's true.

[Baz St. John]

That is it. The only person. And so she was getting hammered. And I saw this movie, and I was like, holy sh. Like, I loved it, and I loved her in it. And so when Spike was asking around, I said, I saw this TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles, and people were snickering and laughing, you know, and just like, she's the assistant. She doesn't even know it better. And Spike was like, I'm gonna talk to her. And he had a meeting with her and decided she was the one. And if not for that moment, I don't think I would have understood that tenure doesn't equate your power. You know that I was 23 years old, and I gave him the idea to use her.

[Michael Bostic]

That's a good story, girl. That's a good story.

[Lauren Bostic]

I feel like we could talk to you. We could talk to you for hours. You got to come back at some point.

[Baz St. John]

I know. Now that I know you had wanted me here, I'm like, I'll come back whenever you want.

[Michael Bostic]

Well, wait, we have to stop.

[Lauren Bostic]

Well, because she's got. She's got to stop. She's got.

[Baz St. John]

I will actually come back. Honestly, I would love that.

[Michael Bostic]

We didn't even tell Part two ten More questions.

[Baz St. John]

We need a part two.

[Lauren Bostic]

We didn't even get into Uber and

[Baz St. John]

Apple because I got some stories. Boy.

[Lauren Bostic]

But anyways, will you come back?

[Baz St. John]

Yes, actually, I will. I would love to come back.

[Michael Bostic]

Tell us. You have to tell us before you go. You have to tell us why you chose to join Housewives.

[Baz St. John]

Oh, yes.

[Michael Bostic]

Because that was strategic, I think, and I wanna know why. And then what's going on with On Brand? With Jimmy Fallon.

[Baz St. John]

Yes. Okay. Okay, so here's the thing. When I left Netflix, it was really, really tough. Again, I think people look at my resume and just like, oh, my God, all these teacher moves, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no. People booed me at every single move. I promise you, they were not supportive. And I know it's hard to believe, but it is so true. Cause if. If we had time, I would get into the details of, like, what was happening at the time and why people were booing me. Moving into a. So when I was leaving Netflix, the decision was because I was writing my book, and it was so heavy, and I knew that I couldn't do that and also be the global chief marketing officer of Netflix. It was a huge job, and I needed all my energy and attention, but I really want to write this book. And the day that Ted and I had our meeting and decided that I would leave, I cried. You know, it was so scary. But I left. I wrote my book, I published it, and then I was sitting there in my house after it was published, and I was like, oh, shit, now what? Like, there's nothing. What am I gonna do? I need another job. So I went out on the market, you know, got interviews. Came down to, you know, a last interview where it's like, I'd already cleared everybody. I just need to meet the board. The offer was already in my inbox at my lawyers. I was sitting there the next day. I had to take a flight the next day to go meet the board, and I could not do it. I was like, I don't. I don't think I want to go back into this world. I just. I've been out now a year. And while it felt like sabbatical, I was like, I don't think I want to do it. And I. Again, I cried. And it was so scary because I'm a single mom. I take care of my parents. I have three homes. Like, I need money. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Bostic]

And so you have good taste, too.

[Baz St. John]

The home's all dialed out. Look, okay, I know it takes money to do these Things.

[Lauren Bostic]

The monthly debt's not going away.

[Baz St. John]

Look, okay, And I got lots of stock, but damn. So I was sitting there and thinking, I can't go back. I don't want to go back. But I was so scared not to. But I knew I really couldn't take the job, and so I declined, even before going to meet the board, much to my mother's anger. That's another story for another time.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. Next time you come back, you can tell that story.

[Baz St. John]

And I. I was sitting in my home for, I would say, like, three months, you know, a little depressed considering the stupid decision I'd made to turn down that job, figuring out, like, ooh, is it, like, embarrassing for me to go back out and say, hey, look, anybody else want a cmo? You know? And I got a email, and it was from the Bravo executives. And they said, you know, we've been trying to get you for many years, but never able to because you always had jobs. And now we hear that you are out and you are potentially not going back, so would you consider coming on the show? And I was like, absolutely.

[Lauren Bostic]

Because you couldn't take the job when you were running Netflix.

[Baz St. John]

No, I couldn't have done the show then. No. And matter of fact, the funny thing is, I thought they wanted me to become the CMO of Bravo. Like, I didn't think they wanted me on the damn show. You know? Like, I thought they were calling me for, like, a.

[Michael Bostic]

Realizing it was the show. Were you excited?

[Baz St. John]

I was nervous, yeah. Because I thought, you know what? Like, I'm a champion of women. I love being able to empower them. I don't want to go on TV and fight with people, you know? But my thought after I sat with it for some time was that, like. But this narrative doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be this.

[Michael Bostic]

You're sort of the voice of reason, right? It's not. I don't. When I look at you on the show, I'm not like, oh, she's causing fights. No, you keep it.

[Baz St. John]

I don't want to do it.

[Michael Bostic]

You keep it lively, and we get the dynamics.

[Baz St. John]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Michael Bostic]

But you're kind of the voice of reason.

[Baz St. John]

I don't want to fight with women on tv.

[Michael Bostic]

I feel like there's kind of a. Like, with the audience where you're going to.

[Baz St. John]

Yeah. Cause I'm like, girl, do you see what's going on? You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying to people. Because the thing is. And I recently did a video about this, where I was talking about conflict, Right. And I was like, you know what? The thing for me that was most pressing when I was thinking about joining the show was I was like, look, women of this age are so damn interesting, but we don't get a chance to really see them because Hollywood loves to show us, you know, women in their teens and twenties, maybe thirties. But by the time you are in your forties, Siphon.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah.

[Baz St. John]

Or fifties, let me tell you, it's a very interesting time. You're raising kids, you got aging parents, you've got dynamics in your marriage. Maybe you're coming out of it, maybe you're getting into your third one. You know, like, there's so much going on before you get to talk about your relationship with your girlfriends, some of whom you've known a long time, some of whom you're making new friends. Who makes a.

[Lauren Bostic]

If you actually think about it, this age range is much more. Your team's gonna kick in the door.

[Baz St. John]

That's fine. But we're gonna keep going. Yeah, yeah. Because, like, there's so much that, like, is happening at this time. And so when I thought about that, that's actually what convinced me to go on the show. Like, I was like, I wanna show that, like, I had. And at the time, there was so much happening in my life. And I'm like, but I wanna see stories like this too. And where are the baddies at? Where are the ones who have a corporate career, who made their money, who didn' to it? We're the ones who are like, you know, like, falling in love again, like, as.

[Michael Bostic]

As a practitioner. We on Beverly Hills specifically, where is the. Where we want. We needed that energy.

[Baz St. John]

Yes, yes.

[Michael Bostic]

You know what I mean?

[Baz St. John]

Yes, yes. And that is why, just full circle here, when I said that, like, you should walk into room or into matter and know that your molecule changes it. That's what I am doing.

[Michael Bostic]

Mic drop. Damn.

[Lauren Bostic]

We could talk to you for hours. Now, where can we go?

[Michael Bostic]

On Brand with Jimmy Fallon.

[Baz St. John]

On Brand with Jimmy Fallon is so great. Just a real quick story on that. The people who poo pooed me for joining Housewives who were like, but you're in the marketing hall of fame. How dare you go and, you know, ruin your reputation. Well, Nancy, who is Jimmy's wife, is a big fan of Beverly Hoffman and she saw the very first episode that I was on. Jimmy, unbeknownst to me, had already sold the show to NBC and was trying to find a co host and he couldn't find one for a year, he was looking and interviewing a bunch of CMOs but couldn't find the magic between someone who has the chops and also is good on tv. And then they saw me, and that is how Jimmy and I got together.

[Michael Bostic]

Molecule that entered the on brand with Jimmy Fallon. Thank you for coming on the show.

[Lauren Bostic]

You've really thank you for doing this. That was fun.