The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast: David Kessler On How To Overcome Trauma, Heal Yourself, Live With Grief & Move Forward

Release Date: February 13, 2025

Hosts: Lauryn Evarts Bosstick & Michael Bosstick

Guest: David Kessler, renowned expert on grief and loss

Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick delve deep into the intricate journey of grief and healing with esteemed guest David Kessler, one of the world's foremost experts on grief and loss. Drawing from his extensive experience and personal narratives, David provides invaluable insights into overcoming trauma, embracing grief, and moving forward with resilience.

Michael’s Personal Journey with Grief (00:04 - 07:20)

Michael opens up about his traumatic childhood experiences, detailing the loss of his mother amidst a mass shooting in 1973 and the subsequent dysfunction within his family. He shares:

"When I went to community college, there was a class on death and dying. Suddenly, there was a language for what I had gone through. There were words for it." ([05:51])

This pivotal moment marked the beginning of his path to understanding and healing, highlighting the importance of education and awareness in the grieving process.

Understanding Grief: The Five Stages and Beyond (08:21 - 10:05)

David Kessler engages with Michael on the classic Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief—denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance—and introduces the concept of a sixth stage:

"Post-traumatic growth became the sixth stage, the finding meaning." ([10:05])

This addition emphasizes the transformative potential of grief, suggesting that individuals can not only heal but also find profound meaning in their experiences.

Navigating Trauma and Victimhood (10:05 - 17:05)

Michael discusses the interplay between grief and trauma, asserting:

"All trauma has grief, but not all grief has trauma." ([10:39])

He explores the societal tendency to minimize traumatic experiences, often leading individuals to adopt a victim identity. David and Michael stress the importance of reclaiming personal power to move beyond being victims.

Michael also touches on his current work, focusing on training therapists and leading online support groups, which allows him to manage his empathy fatigue while still contributing to the healing of others.

Supporting Those Who Grieve (17:05 - 22:18)

The conversation shifts to practical advice on how to support someone experiencing grief. Michael emphasizes the significance of presence over solutions:

"Don't start a sentence with, 'At least they're not suffering anymore.' There are no right words. Just let them know you're here." ([44:10])

David adds, highlighting the continuous nature of grief:

"What we run from pursues us, and what we face transforms us." ([69:03])

This section underscores the importance of empathy, understanding, and sustained support for those navigating their grief journeys.

Types of Grief and Prolonged Factors (28:34 - 44:35)

David shares his personal loss—his mother’s suicide—and the compounded feelings of guilt and what-ifs that accompany such tragedies. Michael provides insights into specialized grief work, particularly post-suicide:

"Anticipatory grief is the grief before the death. You're grieving all along." ([66:57])

They discuss complicated grief arising from sudden or prolonged losses and the unique challenges each type presents, emphasizing that healing is a personal and non-linear process.

Connection and Community as Healing Tools (44:35 - 57:27)

Michael highlights the healing power of connection and community, suggesting:

"One of the things that's been proven to heal grief and trauma is connection." ([43:15])

Both David and Michael advocate for engaging with others who have faced similar losses, whether through support groups, therapy, or shared experiences, to foster mutual understanding and healing.

Finding Meaning and Post-Traumatic Growth (57:27 - 69:03)

The episode delves into the concept of post-traumatic growth, where individuals emerge from their traumas with newfound strength and purpose. Michael reflects on his journey:

"People understand that all the fame in the world doesn't bring someone dead back. All the money in the world doesn't." ([20:48])

David adds that transforming pain into purpose is crucial for long-term healing, emphasizing that while grief never fully dissipates, it can be integrated into a fulfilling life narrative.

Final Thoughts and Takeaways (69:03 - 70:34)

In concluding the episode, Michael and David reiterate the inevitability of grief and the importance of facing it head-on rather than succumbing to fear or isolation. They encourage listeners to seek connection, embrace their emotions, and recognize that healing is a continuous journey.

"Fear doesn't stop death. Death is going to happen. Fear stops us from living this moment." ([69:19])

This powerful reminder encapsulates the episode's core message: embracing grief as a natural part of life and using it as a catalyst for personal growth and deeper connections.

Notable Quotes

• Michael Bostick ([05:51]):

  "When I went to community college, there was a class on death and dying. Suddenly, there was a language for what I had gone through. There were words for it."

• David Kessler ([10:05]):

  "Post-traumatic growth became the sixth stage, the finding meaning."

• Michael Bostick ([44:10]):

  "Don't start a sentence with, 'At least they're not suffering anymore.' There are no right words. Just let them know you're here."

• David Kessler ([69:03]):

  "What we run from pursues us, and what we face transforms us."

• Michael Bostick ([20:48]):

  "People understand that all the fame in the world doesn't bring someone dead back. All the money in the world doesn't."

• Michael Bostick ([69:19]):

  "Fear doesn't stop death. Death is going to happen. Fear stops us from living this moment."

Conclusion

This episode serves as a profound exploration of grief and trauma, offering listeners both personal anecdotes and professional expertise. David Kessler’s insights, combined with Michael’s heartfelt storytelling, provide a compassionate roadmap for anyone grappling with loss. By emphasizing the importance of connection, understanding, and finding meaning, the podcast delivers tangible takeaways for enhancing one's capacity to heal and thrive amidst life's inevitable sorrows.