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The Bossticks
Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe On How To Naturally Boost GLP-1, Stop Cravings, Fix Bloating, & The Truth About Gut Health
00:56:13
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostic. Together, they are the Bostics.
- [00:11]
B
We've got a scientist and a gut microbiome expert on the show today. Please welcome Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe. She has 25 years of experience advancing biology and human health. She's a badass. Wow. On this episode, I learned so much about the gut. I was blown away. She breaks it down in a really clear, credible way, and it's a way that really makes sense. We also talk about some really interesting topics, like what stimulates the body's natural GLP1 hormone, and we even talk about improving the metabolism and reducing food cravings. I found this episode fascinating. I know you will, too. We with that, let's welcome Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe to the show.
- [00:56]
A
We prep for all these things, and a lot of the feedback from the team is like, people are just terrified. They don't know what to do. There's so many illnesses, there's so many new cancers. There's so many things happening as it relates to gut and people. I mean, you know this. There's a lot of information out there, and people don't know where to turn. They don't know what to do. They don't know what's real, what's not. So I guess to start, how did you get involved in this space to begin with and how did you get interested in the gut?
- [01:20]
C
So I totally agree, it is a really noisy space. Everyone knows, oh, gut health is really important for me. But now what, what do I do? What's actionable from this and what is going to help me personally? And what's going to help, you know, that person may not be the same thing. And so for me, I actually didn't really know anything about supplements or probiotics and things like that. I did all of my research. I have a PhD in biochemistry from Johns Hopkins. I did a pretty traditional postdoc at Northwestern. Then I worked as a scientist in a pharma company. We were developing drugs for Parkinson's disease. Then I worked in a DNA sequencing company doing biology. And so it's. I've had a really hardcore basic science background, and when I learned about the microbiome, I was like, wow, this is an entirely new part of our body that we didn't really understand before. So I came at it from purely a science and almost pharmaceutical kind of an angle, and then realized there's a lot of natural things that are happening here and natural ways that we can fix our bodies. And so we ended up putting our products out as probiotics as opposed to drugs. But I came to it purely from like a science and clinical and data standpoint.
- [02:24]
A
Someone who doesn't have your credentials or your experience. We hear a lot of times like gut information is emerging, like we're learning more about the gut as and from a medical perspective. We're learning how many things. Like how new is this study around the gut and the things that we're learning from someone with your background?
- [02:41]
C
Well, in the grand scheme of science and our knowledge about the body, it's pretty new. So we only started really understanding the gut in like the early 2000s. So this is like a 25 year old science. Things like probiotics and yogurts have been on the shelves for a long, long time. But those aren't really grounded in what we're calling, you know, gut science or microbiome science. They're really things that people could culture. There's a lot of things that we've done historically in our culture, like, you know, ferment foods and things like that without really it being grounded in science. And so the science of gu microbiome is like 25 years old.
- [03:18]
B
Why is everyone so bloated?
- [03:21]
C
Oh my gosh, great question. I think that there are a few different reasons. One might be bloated. Some of it can be hormonally driven. But a lot of what happens when we eat certain foods is that it creates gas in our stomach that isn't really able to get metabolized and escape the body. And so it's just sort of sitting there and all of a sudden you've got like an expanded or distended belly. And so one of the things that can really help with bloating is to give your back certain probiotics or certain microbes that are missing. Because there's this whole set. Think about like your microbiome, like this big manufacturing floor and you have all these different departments that each have a different job. And there is a department that is responsible for metabolizing all of these gases and helping to get them out of the body. And so if you're low or missing those, you don't have a way to get those gases out. That's one of the big opportunities for reducing bloating.
- [04:11]
A
So does it just sit in your body as gas or does it form as something else?
- [04:16]
C
It's like sitting in your body as gas and it doesn't have a way to like exit.
- [04:20]
A
Kind of gross.
- [04:22]
B
What are the signs that you see as a scientist when someone has something wrong with Their gut. And I would love for you to get granular. Like, is it a certain rash? Is it. Is it something with their nails? What are the signs where you're like, oh, my God, there's something wrong with the gut.
- [04:37]
C
Traditionally, you know, there's something wrong with your gut if you've got GI issues. So you have diarrhea or constipation. Some people kind of battle both of different times. Bloating. But now we know there's other things that could be an indicator that there's something wrong with your gut. So it's not just diarrhea and constipation and bloating. It's also if your metabolism is slowing down, if you have food cravings, like, oh, my God, I want to eat so much chocolate or this whole bag of potato chips. And I know it's not good for me. So if your metabolism is slowing down, food cravings, skin issues, even acne and rosacea and atopic dermatitis are all being linked to the gut microbiome, allergies, asthma. And even now, people are looking at Parkinson's disease and autism as places where we traditionally thought of as brain issues, but they're tied to the gut.
- [05:22]
A
I think the reason that people find this so overwhelming is, like, you just listed a ton of symptoms that, you know, like, it'd be rare to find somebody that has none of those symptoms. Right. Especially this day and age. And I think this is where the overwhelm comes in. It's like, okay, I've got this. I've got the gut issues. I've got all these symptoms. What do I do? Who do I turn to? How do I fix it? And people are just being crippled with. With information online and everywhere else. So I guess, like, with all that, where do you even begin to start?
- [05:49]
C
Yeah, well, I think the thing to realize about the gut is that the reason it's tied to all these different things is because we traditionally think of our body as having 11 different systems, and the gut is tied to all 11 of those. And that's why it's tied to our immunology, our inflammatory response, our metabolism. And so it's at the core of all that. And so I think about. I don't know if you guys remember when at some point in fitness and exercise, people realized, like, oh, my gosh, if you had a strong core, you could, like, run a marathon, you could swim forever, you could lift weights. But if you. You really needed a strong core, and if you didn't have a strong core, all those exercises were Actually harder for you. Well, the gut microbiome, literally the core of your body, is the same thing. So if it's deficient, you have all these kind of problems across the board. And so when you think about, okay, how do I tackle this problem? One of the biggest challenges people have is that traditional medicine and doctors and all that training that people get in medical school doesn't really cover this. Like, the microbiome is new enough. There's no chapter called Microbiome and How to Handle Gut Health. And so I always recommend for people, if you want to get someone who is a professional healthcare practitioner who can really help you, you gotta start looking towards if you have an internal medicine doc that really understands integrative and functional medicine, get yourself a registered dietitian, get yourself a nutritionist. Chiropractors actually know a lot about this stuff, too. And so you have to step outside the traditional realms and start looking for doctors that really have this new knowledge about thinking about the body in a more whole and not thinking about just drugs as the answer to everything that's wrong with us.
- [07:17]
B
That's really interesting that you say that, because Michael and I were getting cranial sacral work done, and she told us both that our atlas was out. And we both were like, oh, you mean like chiropractor, we need to go see a chiropractor. She said, no, there's a doctor who adjusts only the atlas. And his theory is that with a chiropractor, you keep coming back and back and back. And when you actually fix the alignment, then your atlas is even and you don't need to keep coming back. So what he does is he takes you in, he X rays you. For me, I was to my right side. I had 20 pounds extra weight in my right foot, and he did a couple of adjustments.
- [07:56]
A
Well, not like you weren't actually physically heavier on your right side, but you were putting £20 more pressure.
- [08:01]
B
£20 more pressure. So he does a couple of little touches to your neck and moves some certain things around. It doesn't hurt. And then you take another X ray and you're perfectly aligned and you weigh yourself and it's even. And I could not believe how much better I felt. And that is something that I think is. It's not something that a doctor would prescribe you, but it made such a difference. By the way, Dr. Gates is his name in Austin, and it's called Atlas. But the point is, is like, you're right, we do need to look for other things outside, just drugs.
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A
We also have our friend Dr. Daryl Joffrey's functional medicine doctor. And when he always starts with the gut, that's. That's like the place where you. If you're inflamed, if you have symptoms, you have headaches, like, he always begins there. You do a gut test, you know, these things, and then he works with you to get the gut in order before he can treat you for the rest of the things.
- [08:50]
C
Yeah. And I think that's pretty common approach for these people who are thinking about, you know, your body and all the different parts to it. But I was going to ask you, you know, when you got that, when you. After you finished with the. The atlas physician and you got fixed, did you. It. Did you feel benefits in kind of unexpected ways? Like better energy, better sustained energy? Like, what. What did you get?
- [09:13]
B
Immediately, I felt like the fog was washed off. The wind. Like, if I. There was a bunch of fog on the windshield wipers, it felt washed off. I had immediate more energy. I felt my posture immediately change, could breathe deeper. I noticed for me, like, I had pressure almost in my right leg from all that weight, and it was relieved immediately. And he said that what happens is you almost get, like, that dopamine from being in alignment. Who knows how long I've been. He said it could have happened at birth. So to be put back in the right alignment and it's not chiropractic, there's no cracking was crazy. And a normal doctor wouldn't tell you to go get your atlas fixed. So I thought that was interesting.
- [09:55]
C
Yeah, definitely. And I think similar things happen when people get their microbiome or their gut fixed too, where they're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize that I was actually tired all the time, or I didn't realize that I had this brain fog. And all of a sudden it's like all this stuff has lifted and you're feeling better overall. And I think one of the reasons why these doctors start with the gut is because there are so many reasons why our guts are depleted. So if you've ever been on an antibiotic, your gut got depleted. If you have ever changed your diet, you've gone from being an OMN to a vegetarian or anything like that that changes your gut. If you. As we age, our microbiome becomes depleted. When we go through periods of intense stress, our microbiome becomes depleted when our circadian rhythm is different. So every time. Think about the last time you traveled and day became night, and night became day, your microbiome become depleted.
- [10:44]
A
I'VE never heard that before. That's interesting.
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C
And hormonal shifts, like when women go through menopause, our microbiome becomes depleted. And so there's all these things kind of that are just some of them are under your control. Most of them are not that cause you become depleted. And so by the time, you know, you're 25, probably you've experienced all of those things, and you are now missing things that you used to have when you were 15. And so I think that's why usually people start with the gut as the source of some of these problems.
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B
How do we get superior microbiome? What are the steps?
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C
Well, I think the first thing is to try to understand, you know, really, I think bring awareness to what are the things about my body that have changed? Because you want to be able to track whether those things are improving as you're improving the microbiome. And so if it's your, oh, I don't poop as regularly as I used to, that's one of the most common things. Fatigue, you know, energy is a big one. You know, metabolism and food cravings is another really big one. So if people can bring awareness to, okay, what are the things that I remember? Everyone can remember a time where you could eat or drink whatever you wanted to and it did not matter at all. And so if you think back to that time, how did that feel versus how do you feel now? And then you can start tackling it, because if you don't know if you're getting better or worse, you don't really know if the things you're doing are helping or not. So I always say, like, start with what you think could be better. And then as you start to make improvements to your gut, you'll know if those are working and whether you're getting better or not. And one of the keys to a healthy gut microbiome is diversity. And so the more diverse your foods are, so things like you think about the produce section of your grocery stores, you want to be eating, like all those fruits and veggies, those are really high in fibers and polyphenols. The salt spice section you want lots of different spices are really great for your microbiome. Teas. So all of these things that can help increase the diversity of your microbiome are all things that are helpful. Because when we talk about, okay, as you go through these different things in life, the problem is your microbiome is becoming depleted. And so you're trying to give all that stuff back.
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B
That makes sense.
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A
On that note, with everything you've learned, what are the worst things we can do for our gut? You mentioned stress. I'm assuming certain foods, certain alcohol. What are the things that you've discovered to be the worst for our microbiome?
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C
I think the worst thing for microbiome is if you have a singular diet. Like, you really don't have diversity in your food. And so if you only eat bread and cheese, that's not great. You really want to have diverse fibers and diverse polyphenols in your diet. And so that's the thing we have the most control over. That is probably the biggest problem for us. And the other thing is that if you have to go on an antibiotic because you've got a bacterial infection, like, I'm not an anti antibiotic. Er, but if you're going and asking your doctor for an antibiotic and they haven't said you have a bacterial infection, like, you should not do that.
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A
Our parents come from the generation. Like, you get a sniffle or a cold and you're on a Z pack.
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C
Oh, yeah, my parents. I mean, I am studying microbiome for a living and my parents will literally call me and be like, well, your mom was sick and so luckily we got a Z pack. I'm like, I don't know how to explain this the thousandth time. That's not a luckily.
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B
It's insane.
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No, it's like that generation, they love those Z packs.
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C
Oh, they do? Yeah.
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B
It's like a quick fix. It's unbelievable.
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A
So what. Okay, on that note, for people that are listening, that love the Z pack, what is that Z pack doing if you maybe don't need it?
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B
Like, maybe he's gonna send this clip to his parents.
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C
Well, yeah, because I send it to mine too.
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A
Yeah, no, I. I think, you know, sure, maybe you feel symptom relief a little faster, but what are you ultimately doing if you could just heal naturally on your own?
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B
Let it rip on the Z pack.
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A
Well, antibiotics in general, I guess.
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C
Well, I can. I will tell you that one of the reasons I started this company is very personal to me, and it's about antibiotics and my daughter. So my first daughter was born almost two months prematurely. She was four and a half pounds. She spent the first month of her life in intensive care. She was hooked up to all these machines and monitors and receiving multiple doses of antibiotics, not because she had an infection, but because that's what they do with preemies, because they're like, well, if they get an infection, this is going to be a disaster. So we give them antibiotics prophylactically. So my kid got the. This is before I knew anything about the microbiome. And we left the hospital with what we thought was a healthy kid. And as she started to get older, we realized she had food sensitivities that the rest of us didn't have. So she would be the kid in Baskin Robbins asking how much dairy was in the sherbet. And she just. None of us had any of these other issues. And this paper came out from this professor at nyu and he showed that kids, babies who are under six month old, if they're on a lot of antibiotics later on in life, they're more prone to obesity and diabetes. And the Mayo Clinic actually repeated that study. And if you're under 2 years old and you're on a lot of antibiotics later on in life, you're more prone to obesity, diabetes, adhd, allergies, asthma, celiac disease. And what you've done is effectively taken a nuclear bomb to the microbiome at the very first, most precious time of life when you need to be seeding and growing your microbiome. And some people get over it, but a fair number of people don't. And they're never able to replenish what they lost in those first days. And that was my kid. And so I was like, holy shit. We could make products that could help millions of people, including my own daughter. Like, we gotta go figure out what's going on here. That is the long term repercussions of lots of antibiotic use is that you are depleting your body and your microbiome in a way that it may never be able to get it back without the right kind of gut treatment and supplementation. I mean, the beautiful thing about the microbiome is once you're focused on it, you can actually change it. It's not like your genes where you kind of get what you get and you're like, oh man, I had that mutation. Now, what with the microbiome, you can actually always change it and improve it. And so there's never a moment where you're like, well, I can't do anything about this. So whatever you've done in your past, whatever's happened to you today, is a moment where you can change your microbiome and have a bright future.
- [16:34]
B
Well, I want to know though, what that was like for you as a mother to have to, to you thought you're doing the right thing with putting her. I mean, she had to be at the hospital, but then you find Out. She's on antibiotics. What was that like when you read that paper? Did you immediately want to turn that pain that you had into purpose? Were you. Did you beat yourself up about it? Did you? What did you do?
- [16:58]
C
No. I mean, I. Well, I did not beat myself up about it.
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B
Not that you should. You didn't know.
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C
Yeah, I mean, for me, it was a. A light bulb went off immediately. I was like, this is my kid.
- [17:08]
B
That's kind of what I mean.
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C
The beginning of, you know, having issues with metabolizing food is that you have food sensitivities. So for me, it felt like, oh, my gosh, this is it. This is what's happening. And so why did she have weird food sensitivities the rest of us didn't have? Like, that was kind of confusing to me. And so for me, it was a light bulb went off. This was the problem. And I have, like a background where I could try to solve it.
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B
So. You seem very solution oriented.
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C
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody was trying to harm her. Certainly not.
- [17:39]
B
It's just their protocol.
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C
Yeah, certainly not the parents and not the physicians. The premise is they're so fragile that if they get an infection, they're kind of doomed.
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B
So what's the answer? Is the answer to not put them on an antibiotic or is it to do less? What do you think? If you could go back and do it all over? What's the answer?
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C
Oh, I would refuse it. In fact, my co founder, after we started the company, and he knows our whole story, they had a baby prematurely at ucsf, you know, a great hospital, world renowned, and they had to, they turned down antibiotics and they had to sign all these papers, talk with the doctors, all the stuff to like turn down that so called treatment. I wouldn't, I would say no.
- [18:19]
B
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- [21:56]
A
three children and as we've gone on, you learn a lot more. And it's true, with the first one, we had no idea. We were scared. We, everything we were told, we followed right to a T. We're doing what we're parents, really, especially new parents, need to understand that they can advocate for themselves. And yes, the doctors and the nurses, they're well intentioned, but they can be scary and they put a pressure on you that like, almost like you have to and you're forced to and you don't have to, you can, you can opt out, you can sign the papers. I mean, even this last, we left early on the third kid we had. I said basically, like, you got to get these tests and then I would keep you over. And I said, okay, like that's fine, but I'm leaving at this time. And so if the tests are done, great. And if they're not, see ya. And they got the test done in time because they want to, they wanted to clear me. But the point is, is the only thing that would have happened if I wouldn't have advocated we just stayed there another night out of the comfort of our own home. Yeah, I don't want the nurses, doctors listening this to think that I don't think they're doing a good job. But the point is, is we had a pediatrician, we knew we were going to see him, we knew the doctor was going to be there. We didn't need to just follow this strict scheduling protocol that they wanted to do. And in the past, we would have been terrified thinking like, you know, we're going to be arrested if we leave early or we're going to, something's going to happen. And so the point is, is that I, I do think that you have to use your personal intuition and do what's right for you and your family 100%.
- [23:14]
C
And I did the same thing when I had my second daughter. I was like, she's healthy. I'm getting the fuck out of here.
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B
I'm not doing a test. They're not taking blood, we're not doing anything. Yes, question the protocols.
- [23:24]
C
Question the protocols. And I will just say too, I mean, my husband's a physician, so like I don't know, slam doctors, but it's. But you. But everyone should be aware that when these protocols exist and these things that you're being told, it's actually not just, you know, it's not the latest and greatest medicine, it's traditional medicine that's had decades to be able to get into the system of the protocol. It is insurance companies trying to make sure that they're getting theirs. It is lawyers and legal risk that's all being evaluated. All of that is part of the decision making that goes into like what is step one, two, three. And you are, you know, I don't know where you fall in there, but all those things may not be things that you care about. And so I think that's important to know that you're not defying your doctor or your nurse. You're defying an old school protocol that maybe isn't right for you. And I think that's perfectly fine.
- [24:10]
A
And to defend the doctors and nurses, they are also stuck in that structure of that hospital protocol with those insurance companies and those lawyers. And they're only. And they have to kind of, it's just like anything else. They have to work within what the company sets forth. And there's a lot of. I, I firmly believe that you don't get into medicine in the first place unless you want to help people. I think like the, of course you want to make a living. But I think the majority of people that get into healing, they don't even make that much. Yeah, but, but you know what I mean? Like, I feel like the intention is because you want to be helpful, especially nowadays. You just have, you have to be aware of these systems and how big these systems have gotten. And to your point, the gut. 20 years of studying, like how it outdated some of these systems are.
- [24:49]
C
Absolutely. And we talk about like, why would a regular doctor not send you or prescribe you things that are outside of certain systems? It's because what they're taught in school are about drugs and diagnostic tests. And they're taught those things because those are the things that are approved by the FDA here in the United States. And so the fda, for example, will not approve anything that is not formally considered a drug or a diagnostic test. And so if the FDA doesn't approve things, by the way, your insurance company will not cover it. So insurance companies come in and say, only cover things that are approved by the fda. And the FDA says, well, I'll only approve things that have gone through pharmaceutical companies and diagnostic companies. And so there's this Closed circle here in the US which is the regulatory environment, the coverage environment and the hospitals. And if you're anything outside of that, you're not gonna get covered and you're not gonna make your way into protocols. So that includes things as fundamental as going to the gym. Gym memberships are not typically covered. This is anything else. I mean, a lot of people didn't even get their chiropractor covered. Massages, any kind of supplement, vitamins, organic foods, like all these things that we know are really good for us. You will not get them covered under those, you know, big coverage systems, because that's the closed loop system we work in.
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B
Why, when you refuse something, and I'll use myself as an example, I refused the blood test for my baby when he was born. Is there the same energy all around? Are they trained to like make you feel uncomfortable that you say no?
- [26:22]
C
I think they are trained to follow a protocol that has had a lot of committees come together to write those protocols and to generate them. And a lot of data is underlying those protocols. So they're not bad and they're not mal intentioned, but they are there to follow that protocol and they're there to advocate for those protocols. So anytime you're asking for, how do I deviate from that, there's going to be pushback on. Well, this is the protocol that we've all been taught and given and so we don't really want you to deviate from it.
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B
It's the same energy, like all around. It's so interesting.
- [26:56]
A
I also think that like, for a large part most of society is a bunch of like rule followers and you know, line followers. We're trained that in school, you know, you get in line, you do what you're told, you know, this is the way it works. And so I think in general, many people are very uncomfortable with people that kind of buck the system or push back or do things in their own way. And I think it's something that's ingrained in a lot of people where they, if they see somebody saying, I'm not going to do what else does, I'm doing it my way. It's almost like a, it's, it's, it's almost like you're disrespecting not only the sister, but like the societal structure.
- [27:27]
C
Yeah.
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A
And they get uncomfortable with it. I see it all the time. Even like doing what I do in media and social. If you don't, quote, unquote, follow the unspoken rules in media, you're allowed to talk to these people. You're not allowed to talk to these people. You're allowed to do this, that, and you don't. And you also don't care that you don't. People get, people get strange about it. They like, they like things to be organized.
- [27:46]
B
Yeah.
- [27:46]
C
I mean, I think generally speaking, we stay with the herd because that's what helps us survive, you know, in the old days. But I, but I think in this case, when it comes to the medical profession, there's an additional factor which is liability. So, like, if you said, oh, I don't want to get those blood tests done and they're like, that's cool, then later you could be like, well, but no one ever informed me, like, why should I have gotten them done? They just said, that's fine, and I'm not a doctor. And so I think we live in a world where people are suing people all the time and hospitals and doctors are some of the most sued people. And so I think that's another reason why we get pushback.
- [28:19]
B
Talk to us about the Amazon supplements. What is going on with these fakers?
- [28:25]
C
Well, I think one of the kind of myths out there is that if something is on Amazon, it's legit. So many people think like, oh, well, I didn't see it on Amazon, so it's probably not legit. Oh, I found it on Amazon. So it's, that is a complete myth because Amazon is a marketplace that allows anybody to put anything on there and sell it. And so, so that is the most egregious when it comes to supplements. And so I had never really thought very deeply about it until we experienced this ourselves at our company. So we put a product out. We called it Akkermansia. It's a next generation strain. It's probably the most important strain in your gut that no one's ever heard of. And we have done, not just us, but around the world, people have done research on this strain. There's over 3,000 peer reviewed publication. It plays a really important role in your gut lining. And it's actually one of only two strains that can directly stimulate your body's natural GLP1 hormone. We can get to that in a second. So one of the places we sell our products on is Amazon. And it literally is a clean bottle that just says Akkermansia on it. It's really clear, like it's just this ingredient that you're buying. We started to see all these copycats about 6 to 12 months later putting Akkermansia on Amazon. And I was like, how are These people, it's actually a really hard strain to manufacture. We built a manufacturing plant. Cause no one could actually grow it. I was like, how are they doing? This is crazy. I was saying earlier, I just got off the phone with one of our collaborators at Corn Cornell. He basically bought a bunch of these Akkermansias off Amazon. He DNA sequenced them. And he called me up and he's like, colleen, the only product that actually has Akkermansia in it is Pendulums. And so we call the other ones Fakermancia. But this is just a really important buyer beware that just because it's on Amazon does not mean it's legitimate. And you still, unfortunately, have to do the homework of, is that a legitimate company and look it up and make sure that. That they're doing real steps.
- [30:16]
A
So if someone's buying Pendulums, do you recommend and they're doing on Amazon, they go to, like, your Pendulum Amazon page and buy from there. They don't just search, obviously, the product name Pendulum Acerman. Like, you. You got to get it from your storefront.
- [30:28]
C
They can buy it off Amazon. We, we. There are some copycats that are literally, like, using our same label. So, But. But when you. If you're. If you're careful when you go on Amazon and you can see where the vendor. The vendor is, you'll be able to see like, okay, the vendor's Pendulum or some like, like random company in China
- [30:43]
A
that they need to look for the Pendulum as the. As the seller.
- [30:46]
C
Yeah, as the seller. Or you can buy directly from our website, which definitely you're getting from us.
- [30:50]
B
Someone did this to me. A bunch of people did this to me with mouth tape. I sell mouth tape on Amazon. This is obviously different because it's not a supplement, but there is different toxins in the adhesive. So all of a sudden, I started seeing my mouth tape copied because it's in a shape of pink lips, and I saw it everywhere copied. And you have to be careful of what adhesive you're buying.
- [31:10]
A
What I always tell people, as it relates to supplements, like, one, all the things you're saying go to the company, but this is not the area where you want to look for deep discounts.
- [31:17]
C
Exactly.
- [31:18]
A
I look at it in the same way. It's like you don't go to a tattoo artist and say, who's the cheapest guy in here? You know what I mean? Like, and I think if it's going in your body again, you have to be really thoughtful and you don't want the cheapest version of that because likely it's either it's not real or it's low quality or, you know, or it's completely fake.
- [31:38]
C
I totally agree. I mean, you're putting something in your body. It's not the time to get cheap and, and, and it's not the time to try to look for the. I mean, there's so many fly by nighters in the supplements industry. They'll pop up, it's like a game of whack a mole. And then they'll go away, Then they'll pop back up again with a slightly different name. And, and part of the issue with, with Amazon is that, and I don't know if you experienced this, but you tell Amazon like, these are not real. And they're like, like,
- [32:04]
B
okay, we've had the same experience. Yeah, we wanted to have you on the show because initially, because we heard that Pendulum provides the perfect natural alternative to GLP1s. First of all, let's unpack that.
- [32:20]
C
Yes, let's do unpack that. Because I want to be real clear. It's not like the drugs. And so this is the. So maybe we'll start with like, what is GLP1? And like, what is it supposed to be doing? I think we all know GLP1. Oh, it's an injection or now a pill that helps you lose weight. But underlying that is actually what's happening in your body. So what is supposed to be happening in your body is you eat a meal, it goes into this big manufacturing factory of your microbiome. And one of those departments in there says, okay, we just ate a meal. We need to stimulate our GLP1 hormone. It's actually a hormone. And so it stimulates your natural GLP1 hormone. And so now you get GLP1 in your bloodstream. And that GLP1 does two really important things. One, it tells your body, we just had sugar. Almost every meal you have has sugars in it. So, like, let's metabolize that sugar. So it stimulates your insulin pathway and helps you metabolize that sugar. And the second thing is it tells your brain, we just ate, so we don't need to eat anymore, we're full. And so that happens. And then that hormone gets metabolized like every other hormone in our body gets metabolized and goes away. And then you'll get hungry again. And then it comes back up. And so that you're supposed to be on a natural cycle of your GLP1 hormone hormone. Now, as pharmaceutical companies do, they realize, wow, this hormone is really Great, because it helps you metabolize your sugars and tells you your body, you're full. Can we make a drug that looks like it? And so all the GLP1s out there that people are familiar with, Ozempic, semaglutide. These are chemicals that are made to mimic your body's natural GLP1 hormone. And because they're chemicals, they don't go through this cycle. You're basically injecting this GLP1 hormone, and it doesn't get metabolized. It just stays at really high levels at all times. And the reason why that may be problematic is, like, if I was talking to you through, like, one of those megaphones, you would definitely hear me better. But after a time, if I'm talking to you through that megaphone, you're going to go deaf. And the body actually literally works the same way. Your body can become deaf to these things. So one of the things that happens for people on insulin is they have to have higher and higher doses as time goes on, because their body is not reacting to that insulin anymore. It's turning deaf to it. And so one of the things that is likely to happen that we're all gonna find out is that when you're having these high levels of GLP1 and all the time, for long periods of time, your body's gonna stop responding to it the way that you really want it to.
- [34:34]
A
So even these people that are saying, oh, I'm just doing a microdose, over time, that dose is gonna have to increase for them to get the effect.
- [34:40]
C
It is, it is. And that's because you're really. You're kind of keeping it at this high level. So even a microdose is still like this instead of, like the cycle you're supposed to be on. So I think GLP1s are an awesome invention. I think all of those. Those drugs are really helping people in important and massive ways that we need. But my suggestion to anybody who's thinking, if that works for you, that probably means that your body's natural GLP1 system was out of whack for all the reasons we talked about, about your gut health and your gut diversity being gone. So if you're missing those strains, you're not getting your normal GLP1 cycle. So if the drug is working for you, that's awesome. Why not also help your body make its own natural GLP1 hormone?
- [35:24]
A
Here's what my fear is with these GLP1s. I agree with you. I think it's an incredible technology. I think many people have benefited huge lifestyle changes to the positive effect by incorporating them. What my concern is is that the direction we're moving into is that instead of trying to get your GLP1 production back on the right track, naturally we are no longer even going to try. We are just going to drop Trump to a drug because humans are lazy and we want the easiest path and we want the least amount of work. And the problem, the way that plays out long term, I think could become problematic for individuals and for society. And what I tell people that maybe that come to me privately, that maybe don't are not necessarily, like, I don't want to say real candidates, but, but a typical candidate. Maybe you're not obese or you don't have these issues, you're just trying to lose a little weight. But I would say, like, let's first try to get the natural process firing again and do what you need to do there first before you jump. But I think again, a lot of people are just going to take the easier path, which is get on the drug, disregard that. But again, like what this looks like in 20, 30 years, I think we're, we're going to find out.
- [36:35]
B
So tell us about what the. So the natural alternative, what does it do exactly?
- [36:41]
C
It is, it's basically stimulating Your body's natural GLP1.
- [36:46]
A
It's the same thing, but your body's able to do it in a natural way the way it's designed to, the
- [36:51]
C
way it's designed to do it. And so then what happens is the repercussions of your GLP1 being back to what it's supposed to be. Having your natural GLP1 stimulated is that you will not have these weird random food cravings when like, you're not supposed to have like some people will actually, many, many people will say, you know, if I get a, a chocolate bar, once I open that chocolate bar, I'm eating that whole thing. Like, I'm not gonna eat a piece, wrap it up and put it away. And even though halfway through you're probably full or whatever, a couple squares in, you're full, your, your body is continuing to make you think that you're still hungry. So you have all these unwanted food cravings. Your metabolism is slowing down, you're eating sugars, but your body isn't actually metabolizing it. You're eating carbs, but your body isn't actually metabolizing well. So when you get your real natural GLP1 hormone back in sync, all of those things will start to Go away. You'll have less food cravings, less food noise, your metabolism will be back in sync and to the point about like, well, gee, that sounds like a lot of work to try to get my natural GLP1 back. It probably involves dietary changes, supplementation. Why don't I just go on the drug instead? I would offer for people that if that's the way that you can jumpstart getting onto into a healthy frame of mind, I'm all for it. But then just consider if you're not wanting to be on that for the rest of your life to then try to add in these things after you've gotten, you know, into a good place. And we have a lot of practitioners that do that. They'll start someone on a drug and then they'll be like, great, now we wanna reduce your dose or now we wanna do an on off regimen. And so what do you do in the off? You gotta get your natural GLP1 working.
- [38:21]
B
I wanna tell you about the charity that I am so passionate about and it is called I Stand With My Pack. They are committed to getting dogs fostered and adopted. I have been a fan of this specific charity for about five years. When my daughter was born, I met a woman named Lucy and she was helping me with zaza and she told me all about this incredible charity, I Stand With My Pack, where they helped animals find homes that were in really bad conditions. And I started following the Instagram account, fell in love with what they were doing, and then decided to partner with them to bring awareness to their cause. If you're looking to adopt or foster a dog, you have to check them out. It's I Stand With My Pack. They are accepting donations too. If you can't adopt or foster. And all of the money goes to their mission, which is to help dogs with major medical needs that are often not seen by adopters or other rescuers. Check them out. Istandwithmypack.org this episode is brought to you by Woo. More Play. All right, if you're out west, this one's for you. Woo. More Play just launched with Fascinations, the one stop shop for adult toys, lingerie, wellness and more. If you're a listener in Arizona and Colorado, you can visit their local Fascination store to pick up the full line of Woo More Play. So think lubes like the coconut love oil, which is is magnificent. It's organic, non toxic, the only lube that I will use. And it's not filled with shitty ingredients. It also tastes like cupcakes, which makes everything so much Better. If you need to get Woo in a hurry, go to fascinations.net to buy online and pick up in store. Definitely get your favorite non toxic womb or play lube. Today you can use code Skinny both in store and online at Fascinations. Of course, you can also shop my favorite vibrator and lube@woomoreplay.com that's woomoreplay.com this episode is brought to you by Lauren Bostick for P Volve. That's right. I have launched a kit with P Volve. I designed every single aspect of this kit with the P Volve team and it is gorgeous. As you can see, we have 8 pound weights, 12 pound weights, 15 pound weights. Because I am so passionate about getting women to lift heavier and this kit has heavy weights in it and it also has everything you need for stability and mobility. So in this kit you're really getting everything you could ever want when it comes to fitness. You're also getting access to my P Volve trainer, Danny Coleman. She also happens to be Jennifer Aniston's trainer. She's coached me along this P Volve journey. P Volve has been something that I keep going back to for the last seven years. I've had three babies and it's helped me stay in shape and tighten and tone up. I love the founder, Rachel. I think she's an absolute genius. So when she came to me and wanted to create this custom kit for you guys, I was like, let's do it. It's limited edition. It's gorgeous. It comes in the most beautiful box ever. And the best part is everything is built with intention. So P Volve's core strength pillars are strength, mobility and stability. And this kit hits all of them. This is product that you want out in your living room, in your office. It's aesthetically pleasing, it's gorgeous. But most importantly, it works. If you want to shrink your body composition and change your life, start lifting heavy and implement stability and mobility. Lauren Bostick for P Volve has all of the things. Like I said, this is a limited edition kit. It's called Strength Evolved and once it's gone, it's gone. If you're looking for low impact but intense workouts, check out P volve. Head to pvolve.com skinny and use code skinny for 15 off site, wide or on class packs at a P Volve studio near you. You and definitely grab this kit, you guys, because like I said, once it's gone, it's gone. Lauren Bostic for P Volve.
- [42:24]
A
Why do some doctors and you're the perfect person to ask this, say that once you start with these drugs, not every doctor, but some say that you'll need to be on this for life. And, and how do you, if you don't want to be on these medications for life and you want to get on a natural path again, like, how are you able to do that and get off in a healthy way so that you don't have to be on these medications for forever?
- [42:44]
C
I mean, I think any practitioner who says once you start GLP1s, you have to be on the first year of life should be disbarred. Like, that's insanity. That is a complete lie. That's not true. I mean, we know that even if you have actually type 2 diabetes, there are so many studies that are showing that if you can improve, I mean, nutrition is one of the biggest things. Nutrition and exercise, you can reverse your own diabetes, you, even without drugs. I mean, there are companies that are premised on this. There's a company called Virta Health, they can reduce diabetes and A1C and all that stuff as good as drugs. And their whole regimen doesn't involve a single drug. And so I, I think that is maybe more psychological. So, yeah, once you're on the drug, it's an easy fix. Maybe you never want to go off of it again, but you certainly can.
- [43:28]
A
They'll frame it as like, oh, you'll likely need to be on this for the like. And again, I don't want to say that for every doctor but you, but there's definitely some people that come to mind that say once you get on these things, it's likely you're going to be on it for forever. And I, I think that is concerning.
- [43:43]
C
Yeah, I would say.
- [43:44]
B
So how many of your natural alternative do you take a day? Is it one, is it ten? How many pills? Oh, or supplements?
- [43:53]
C
I should say I just take the one pendulum supplement, which is.
- [43:57]
B
But is it just one?
- [43:58]
C
Yeah. The product that I take is called Pendulum Glucose Control. As its name suggests, it's to help you with glucose control. So it's a formulation of five different strains work together as a team in order to help you stimulate your body's natural GLP1. They work together as a team to help you with your gut lining. And so I take. Those are two pills a day. So I take two in the morning and kick my day off with.
- [44:20]
B
And you like it in the morning?
- [44:21]
C
I do it in the morning because that's when I have, I have like a morning routine usually involves coffee I never miss my coffee, so I never miss my supplements. By the time I get to the end of the day, like, it's hard for me to routine. So I always tell people, like, whenever you've got your routine, just slot it in there.
- [44:35]
B
And you also take your other probiotic. I'm going to flub the name. Say the name.
- [44:39]
C
Is it akromansia? Akromansia, yeah, that's the strain name.
- [44:43]
B
Sounds like arachnophobia.
- [44:44]
A
Sounds like you're casting a spell.
- [44:45]
C
Yeah, it sounds like you sneezed. Yes.
- [44:47]
B
Harry Potter or something. Halle Berry is an equity owner. That's cool. How did she get involved?
- [44:54]
C
Yeah, Halle Berry. A lot of people don't realize she actually has diabetes.
- [44:59]
B
Right.
- [44:59]
C
And so she. And you might imagine she gets pitched all kinds of products all the time to try to help her. She tells. And this is kind of what she has said, is that she learned about Pendulum from the Cleveland Clinic, and we have physicians there that have been using our products almost since day one. And so she had somebody from the Cleveland Clinic call her up and say, like, hey, have you heard about this company, Pendulum? I think you should try it out. And so she tried it, and it's the only thing she's ever up supplement she's ever taken that lowered her A1C, like, in a meaningful way and in a sustainable way. And so she's like, what is this company? And so I got a invite that said, halle Berry would like to talk to you. And I was like, okay, that's hilarious. Sure. But it was, in fact, Halle Berry who wanted to talk to us, and she was. She's like the nicest person. We get on this Zoom call, and she says, I love your product. I really want to figure out how I can help you. What can I do? It's like a dream call for anybody who's trying to build a business. And so.
- [45:58]
A
That's a good call.
- [45:59]
C
Yeah, it's a good call. It's a good call. And then she and I, on a personal level, have really bonded, and we have, you know, kids the same age, and some of our personalities are kind of similar to each other. And so she became an investor in the company. She is our. She has. She took on a title which is Chief Communications Officer, which isn't just like a gimme top title, a bullshit title. She really felt like the way she could help our brand is by helping us communicate better what it does and why it's different from all the other supplements out there. And one of the first things she did was she made us change the bottle. So if you look at old school pendulum bottles, they're like these very almost medicine y looking. She was like, this is terrible. This feels like old school stuff. If we have innovation on the inside, we have to be communicating the that in all the different ways that people experience the product, including the packaging. And so. Yeah, and so I'll tell you this. Like, we went through a whole exercise of, like, building a whole new packaging and bottle. And the bottle design we came up with was actually inspired by a petri dish. So it was like, almost like a disc shape, if you remember back to, like, seventh grade biology, a petri dish. And you would open it up like this, and all your pills would be inside. We're like, oh, my gosh, this is so cool. We built a bunch of them. We had. We started selling them. And she did all the. These, you know, posts about them. And what we found is that was only us. Like, it was like me and her and some other women in the company who'd been opening it. All the guys are like, I can't. This thing is so tiny. I open it up and everything spills everywhere. It was kind of a little bit of a disaster. So this was like, kind of a crazy moment because I had to go back and tell Halle Berry, like, this thing that we designed together, it's not working. And, you know, she's not from this startup environment. She is from film. You don't put a movie on. You're like, no, people didn't like it. We gotta go back and redo it. It's out there, it's done. And so I didn't know how she was gonna take this phone call of like, it's not working. We have to pull it.
- [47:52]
B
What did Catwoman say?
- [47:54]
C
Catwoman said, okay, well, if that's what our customers are saying, we gotta listen to the people. We gotta listen to the people.
- [48:01]
B
She did a pivot.
- [48:02]
C
She did a pivot. We took the whole thing. So you can't. That's like a historic thing. If you happen to have one, you should hold onto it. Cause no more of those are being made. And then we move to the current bottle, you see, which is beautiful. Which I think we're all very happy with. Yes.
- [48:13]
B
Where is your daughter?
- [48:14]
A
Now, on that note, not to just pick on your daughter, but for anyone that's maybe exhibited early gut issues or had a similar story, or maybe they've done something where they've, you know, messed up their gut microbiome, I think a large theme of this episode Is being able to change that?
- [48:29]
C
Yeah. My daughter was definitely an early user of the product. And I can say, like, she can eat anything now. And I remember there was one day she came home, and she was like, mom, where are the pills? And because we had, like, everyone in my family's taking them. And I said, oh, I haven't reordered. We don't have any right now. And she was like, but we're gonna go out for ice cream this weekend. And I was like, well, we should have a talk about how this isn't really an ice cream enabler, but effectively, she can eat anything.
- [48:55]
B
And how old is she now?
- [48:56]
C
She's 19.
- [48:57]
A
And how long did it take her, from your perspective, till that started to resolve itself, until the gut got stronger?
- [49:03]
C
It was like, less than 90 days.
- [49:04]
A
Oh, wow.
- [49:05]
C
She was pretty. I mean, she was in. At that point, she was still in elementary school.
- [49:09]
B
Colleen, now he's gonna take all my supplements. I know you're gonna go home. He's gonna start looking through for the pendulum.
- [49:15]
A
If someone jumps into the pendulum protocol and they want to do this 90 day, like, is that what you guys recommend? And how do you recommend most people dive in and start incorporating?
- [49:24]
C
I definitely recommend the first step is, what do you feel like you're trying to fix? And, like, literally, I say write it down. Like, write down what you feel like. These are all the things that I think could be improved in my life. And don't. Nothing is out of scope here. Everything is. You write it down.
- [49:41]
A
How do I get my wife to stop yelling at me?
- [49:43]
C
Yeah, write it all down. Write it down.
- [49:45]
B
Fix your microbiome.
- [49:46]
C
Fix your microbiome. And then she won't be as irritated with you.
- [49:49]
B
Get rid of your hairspray.
- [49:52]
C
The reason I say 90 days is because if you were to become a. If you were to change your diet. So let's say you're a vegetarian and you became a carnivore. Within eight weeks, your microbiome will look totally different. So, you know, it takes about that amount of time to really introduce something new into your. Your gut. Some people feel a difference in a matter of days, and some people take six months. But on average, I give you, like, give it 90 days. And the kind of things that can also bolster this are if you can start to increase the amount of fiber that's in your diet, that can be through foods or supplementation. That's the food for these strains. And so if you can feed them fibers and polyphenols and take the pills within 90 days. Go back to your list and just see, like, did anything get better?
- [50:32]
A
Interesting. And just. Would you just take one pendulum a day? Is that it just the one strain for every day?
- [50:36]
C
I would. I always recommend for people to take Pendulum Metabolic Daily. So it rather. I know we've talked a lot about Akkermansia. That's one of the strains. It's in Metabolic Daily, but Metabolic Daily has all the strains. Like I said there, it's an ecosystem.
- [50:48]
A
So you think the Metabolic daily by Pendulum, that's the best place to start when you're just getting going with your company?
- [50:54]
C
That's the best place to get started. It's the best price performance. I mean, that's really your daily. Okay, cool.
- [50:59]
B
Before you go, we have a huge female audience. What is the Menopause microbiome link?
- [51:06]
C
Yes. This is actually really, really fresh information. I'll also caveat it by saying we're very early in research, like we as a global community. But one of the things that happens during menopause, one of the biggest things that happens during menopause is your estrogen levels kind of go through this massive decline. The microbiome for women also has certain strains that you could literally overlay exactly that estrogen decline, and they go down at the same. Same rate. Maybe I'll take one step back, which is to say that if you're a woman and you're between puberty and menopause and you sent me your microbiome, I could tell you, are you a man or a woman? We actually women's microbiomes look different from men's. Until menopause.
- [51:47]
A
Controversial statement these days, Colleen,
- [51:50]
C
without getting into any of that. And I'll explain why, because it really is about hormones and about what you identify as. But once you get through menopause, our microbiomes look like men's. You can't tell anymore. Is this from a man or a woman?
- [52:03]
A
That's interesting.
- [52:04]
B
That's so interesting.
- [52:05]
C
Yeah.
- [52:05]
B
Wow.
- [52:06]
C
And what it boils down to is this thing. So as our estrogen levels are declining, so are these very specific strains in our microbiome are also declining. And when you dig a little bit deeper, those strains actually can increase your body's free estrogen. So your body naturally has a system that when you're between puberty, menopause, your whole body is regulated in. You get increase of certain hormones, and then there's like a thing that decreases your hormones. So there's everything is radiation, really cyclical when it comes to hormones. And so estrogen has a system for increasing your estrogen, and it has all these systems for then decreasing your estrogen. And the microbiome is it plays a role in that decreasing of your free estrogen. And so what happens is that we lose those strains that can put free estrogen back into our body. And so the idea is, the hypothesis is if you could give those strains that are like, especially, I think, during perimenopause, when these cliffs can feel really dramatic, if you can give people back those strains that help kind of stabilize that free estrogen level, that you could maybe help to manage these symptoms that we go through when we go through menopause.
- [53:07]
A
But with that also in mind, is it potential to delay the onset or not?
- [53:13]
C
No, no, that's right. That is actually the whole goal is that the whole goal is to actually try to target women before we're, like, in the throes of menopause. But as you're starting to feel all those symptoms, like people, Women start to feel those symptoms, some like within their 30s, and you don't necessarily recognize it, but the whole idea here is to make it less dramatic and terrible.
- [53:32]
A
Okay.
- [53:33]
C
And by the way, there are also systems that do the same thing with testosterone.
- [53:36]
B
Colleen, you're fascinating. You're welcome to come back on the show anytime. That was a great conversation. Tell us where we can find the brand.
- [53:43]
C
Yes, I. I would love for everybody to check us out@pendulumlife.com there's a lot of information. There's a lot of stuff we talked about here today. There's a lot of information there. If you're a healthcare practitioner, we have a special section just for you that has all the papers and protocols written by your peers. Please come learn, ask us questions. I think if you're just looking to boost your gut and metabolic health and you're looking for which product is right for me, Metabolic Daily is the one to go after. If you have diabetes, take pendulum glucose control. And again, if you can boost your nutrition with fibers and polyphenols, that's all gonna feed these guys and be great for your gut.
- [54:19]
B
You can go to pendulumlife.com skinny they gave you a code. Skinny. You get 20% off your first purch us. Michael, keep your paws off my product. Go buy it. Use the code. Michael, thank you so much.
- [54:30]
C
Thanks for having me, guys.
- [54:31]
A
Thank you for doing this.