Dr. Drew Pinsky On Mastering Mental Health, Build Resilience, Thrive In The Digital Age, & Trauma Recovery

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast Featuring Dr. Drew Pinsky

Episode Title: Dr. Drew Pinsky On Mastering Mental Health, Build Resilience, Thrive In The Digital Age, & Trauma Recovery
Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Everts Bosstick and Michael Bosstick welcome renowned addiction specialist and cultural commentator, Dr. Drew Pinsky. Together, they delve into pressing mental health issues, societal challenges in the digital age, and strategies for building resilience and recovering from trauma.

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1. Society's Increased Consumption of Pornography and Its Effects

Timestamp: [01:11] - [04:10]

Dr. Drew Pinsky opens the conversation by questioning whether society is consuming too much pornography. Michael Bosstick affirms this concern, highlighting the alarming rise of porn addiction among young males exposed to explicit content at increasingly younger ages.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Drew Pinsky [01:11]: "Is society watching too much porn?"
• Michael Bosstick [01:18]: "It has created a whole army of young men who are porn addicted."

The discussion emphasizes how early and intense exposure to pornography can traumatize developing brains, leading to compulsive behaviors and distorted perceptions of sex and relationships.

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2. Differential Impact on Men and Women

Timestamp: [04:10] - [07:04]

Michael elaborates on the differing effects of pornography on genders. He references insights from Stormy Daniels, noting that while men often seek high levels of arousal, women typically look for narrative depth to understand relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [04:48]: "Women want to know why those two people like each other so much that they want to have sex. So there needs to be some sort of story."

This section underscores the need for varied approaches in addressing pornography addiction and its societal implications for different genders.

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3. Detachment from Reality and Rising Narcissism in Society

Timestamp: [07:04] - [10:01]

The conversation shifts to the broader societal issue of detachment from reality, compounded by the rise in narcissistic behaviors. Michael discusses how childhood trauma contributes to narcissism, characterized by envy and a lack of empathy.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [07:10]: "People are really detached from reality, constructing it out of narratives and ideologies."
• Michael Bosstick [07:17]: "Narcissism liability is envy and empathic failure."

This segment highlights the psychological underpinnings that foster a culture of self-absorption and disconnection from genuine human interactions.

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4. The Role of Childhood Trauma in Shaping Personality Disorders

Timestamp: [10:01] - [17:25]

Michael delves deeper into how adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) lay the foundation for personality disorders, particularly within the cluster B spectrum, which includes narcissism and sociopathy. He reflects on historical trends in psychiatric diagnoses, linking the rise in such disorders to unaddressed childhood traumas.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [10:01]: "There are different kinds of narcissism."
• Michael Bosstick [11:58]: "It usually goes away as addiction is treated..."

This discussion emphasizes the long-term impact of early trauma on mental health and the complexities involved in treating such deep-seated psychological issues.

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5. Current Addictions: Beyond Opiates

Timestamp: [12:16] - [22:32]

Shifting focus, Michael outlines the landscape of current addictions, highlighting the surge in cannabis use due to high THC concentrations. He also addresses the mental health repercussions of excessive cell phone use, which fosters a disconnect from reality and hampers genuine human interaction.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [12:20]: "Cannabis has gone way up because of the concentration of THC..."
• Michael Bosstick [22:32]: "It's dopamine, but it's not at a level where, Yeah, I don't want to."

This segment underscores the evolving nature of addiction in the digital age and its pervasive impact on societal well-being.

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6. Parenting in the Digital Age: Building Emotional Resilience in Children

Timestamp: [15:18] - [21:05]

Lauryn and Michael discuss the critical role of parenting in mitigating the adverse effects of technology on children. Michael emphasizes the importance of face-to-face interactions and emotional attunement to foster secure attachments and emotional regulation in children.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [15:36]: "What kids need is many, many, many thousands of hours of face to face contact..."
• Michael Bosstick [19:48]: "Put your phone down."

They advocate for structured limits on screen time and mindful parenting practices to ensure children develop healthy emotional landscapes despite the pervasive influence of digital devices.

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7. Personal Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

Timestamp: [48:18] - [60:03]

In the latter part of the episode, Michael opens up about his personal battles with depression, anxiety, and workaholism. The hosts explore the intricacies of sociopathy and psychopathy, discussing their manifestations and the challenges they pose in personal and professional relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [40:02]: "I have all the same things that everybody else has..."
• Michael Bosstick [58:52]: "Most people cannot put a family member off."

This candid discussion provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of mental health struggles, the complexities of personality disorders, and the importance of seeking help and fostering supportive relationships.

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8. Understanding Sociopathy and Psychopathy

Timestamp: [51:03] - [57:13]

Michael and Dr. Drew dissect the definitions and differences between sociopathy and psychopathy. They explore how these personality disorders interplay with addiction and the importance of recognizing manipulative behaviors to disengage from toxic relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Bosstick [55:04]: "They're worrying about themselves. They're worried they might hurt somebody."
• Dr. Drew Pinsky [54:23]: "It's a good one. Michael..."

Their discussion emphasizes the need for swift action when dealing with manipulative individuals to protect one's mental and emotional well-being.

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of mental health challenges exacerbated by societal changes, particularly in the digital era. Through insightful discussions between Michael Bosstick and Dr. Drew Pinsky, listeners gain valuable perspectives on combating addiction, fostering emotional resilience in children, and navigating complex personality disorders. The episode underscores the importance of mindful parenting, genuine human connections, and proactive mental health strategies in building a healthier, more resilient society.

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Note: Advertisements and promotional segments within the transcript have been omitted to focus solely on the substantive discussions between the hosts and Dr. Drew Pinsky.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Michael Bostick]

Fantastic.

[Lauren Everts]

And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick are bringing you along for the ride.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential him and her show. Today we have one of our favorite recurring guests who's also become a friend. Friend. Today we are joined by someone who's been in our ears and on our screens for over 30 years. Doctor, addiction specialist, cultural commentator and literal legend, Dr. Drew Pinsky. From Loveline to Teen Mom, Celebrity Rehab, to ask Dr. Drew, he's been talking about the stuff no one else will for years. Addiction, sex, trauma, health, and why our culture is kind of losing it. He still practices medicine. He still tells the truth. And he's here with us today to talk about the hard things. As usual, the stuff affecting all of us. Buckle up, buckle in. Our friend, Dr. Drew Pinsky. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Is society watching too much porn?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So why is society watching more porn and what is it doing? What's the effects on society?

[Michael Bostick]

We don't know. Right. And it has created a whole army of young men who are porn addicted. Mostly caused by being exposed at an age when it gets in so powerfully that it becomes sort of a compulsion. Like 8, 9, 10 years old kids are being exposed to porn. And not just porn, but, you know, it wasn't like opening a Playboy magazine. It's hardcore stuff. And your brain is not, as we say, it. It shatters the upper limits of the brain's capacity to manage. And it becomes kind of traumatizing. And things are traumatizing in that critical windows. It becomes a compulsion of preference, something you're sort of attracted to. And then it goes and it just more and more and more.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So are they seeing, like. Are they seeing sex in a way that sex is not? It's not. It's not almost real. It's like acting.

[Michael Bostick]

No, no. They're just selecting the highest level of arousal and reward that the brain can achieve. And it's why it progresses. That's why people get into material that is problematic because the. The sort of, what is just sort of overwhelming for the average person becomes sort of bland if they're looking at it all the time and. And they need that level. It's like any addiction, it progresses, right? Gets worse with time. And that's how People end up in, you know, crazy, dangerous stuff. Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

You know, it's like, it's when we were kids, we're still of that generation where, like, if you were lucky to. Lucky. If you were lucky to find a magazine in a canyon somewhere, that would be the thing. And if you.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Finding a magazine in a canyon, every.

[Michael Bostick]

Every adolescent male has found a claim where something either in a. In a trash bin behind a grocery store or. Or a canyon, something.

[Lauren Everts]

Why were they in the canyons? Now that I think about it, just.

[Michael Bostick]

Other guys, like, you were throwing them out.

[Lauren Everts]

That's right. You're scared to get caught. So you're like, what do you do? You throw it in the canyon.

[Michael Bostick]

Exactly.

[Lauren Everts]

Or if you found by chance that this was like, whoa, like a VHS tape from, like a tape from like, you know, the 80s or 70s, you know, and it was like, not high quality. That was about it. But now, you know, I have a friend who's older than us, and he has kids that are getting into their teens, and he was saying the stuff they're exposed to and the stuff they see, the things that he found are so problematic and it was so aggressive and so far beyond the norm of typical sexual experiences for, you know, anyone, really, that it was. It was causing all sorts of issues for that person.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, there's. There's a lot of potential corollary issues aside from addiction. Right. I think people make a lot of how, as you said, it's unrealistic and sort of young males are being taught this is what women want. Young females are looking at, whoa, is that what it means to be a female?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Are you seeing different effects on women as opposed to men?

[Michael Bostick]

In what sense? The answer is yes. But what are you thinking with porn?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Are you seeing anything with women in porn?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. Men are more prone to the porn addiction, you know, back to the women in porn. I remember I talked to Stormy Daniels years ago right now, before she became infamous for the Trump thing. And. And she was on the radio show, remember we used to have Loveline back in the day. And she said, you know, I've been producing and directing porns for a long time now. And she goes, and I. And I now I completely understand what women want from porn and what men want from porn. Men want to see people having sex. Women want to know why those two people like each other so much that they want to have sex. So there needs to be some sort of story.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Like a story. Yeah. What is one uncomfortable truth Right now with our society, that no one wants.

[Michael Bostick]

To admit, you know, it depends what day you're talking to me. The part I'm sort of struggling with right now is that people are really detached from reality, that they are living in this world where they're constructing it out of narratives and ideologies and things. And that is really dangerous if you're not in mental health. Comes from accepting reality in reality's terms. You know, being able to adaptively resilient, respond to reality. If you are denying reality, that's a problem. We call that delusionality. In addition, there is, and it's something I've been writing about for years. I wrote a book about it 15 years ago about narcissism and childhood trauma. And I could see it coming. Christopher Lasch saw it coming. You could see, and I saw it. I used to work in. Worked in a psychiatric hospital for 30 years. And when I first got there in the 80s, you know, they have these diagnostic sheets and part of the diagnosis spectrum is the personality disorders you have to fill out when they come in. And, and back when I got there in like 1984, 85, the personalities that were being represented on the admission sheets were all over the place. All the different kinds of, you know, they're called A, B and C clusters of personality. And towards the end of the 80s, I started seeing a lot of borderline personality. And as we went into the 90s, only what are called cluster B personality, which are the narcissistic disorders, everybody, every single patient had a cluster B diagnosis. And I watched it change. And I thought, oh, this is. And I was hearing it on the radio. I was hearing all the trauma every night. I was hearing all the compulsions and all the acting out and all the crazy and the drug use. I mean, I watched it kind of happen in real time. Now I forgot what the question was.

[Lauren Everts]

Why, why did that change happen? What, like what was.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, the, the underlying, the underlying influence is childhood trauma, that kids were physically abused, sexually abused, neglected, ruptured families. Adverse childhood experiences. My profession didn't even, didn't even admit that it were called ACs. Adverse childhood experiences, or ACEs, rather, would necessarily adversely impact people's psyche. It's so crazy. And we, we know for sure that experiences that happen in childhood have a disproportionate effect on all that is to follow.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Okay, so you are seeing right now one of the problems with society is there's a lot of delusion and detachment.

[Michael Bostick]

Delusion and what?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Detachment. Is that the right word?

[Michael Bostick]

Detachment from Reality, detachment from it. And then also narcissism and the liability of narcissism. Childhood trauma. Childhood trauma creates narcissism for the most part. I mean it's a. Not a direct line, but that sort of sets people up for that. And problem with narcissist is there and it's. And again, I use these terms non pejoratively. In other words, they're just ways of describing people as far as I'm concerned. But narcissists have liabilities. And the narcissism liability is envy and empathic failure. And so envy and grievance and victim is something very, very common right now. Right. I'm envious. That guy. You guys have a great business here. I'm not just jealous, I'm envious. And envy. And envy. You have to knock somebody down. It's not just that makes me jealous, uncomfortable. I'm gonna work hard to get what they have. No, no, no. I gotta destroy them. Fuck those guys. That's envy. And envy is alive and well. And one of the things narcissists do. You're. You seem. You look at your disbelief what I'm saying, or I'm upsetting you.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

No, you're not upsetting.

[Michael Bostick]

It's not low energy as you need for your pregnancy.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

No, it's interesting like to hear this broken down from a behind the scenes perspective.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. So the other thing the narcissists do is they all that narcissistic rage and envy. If they were acting out all the time, it would be hard to go through life. But they can gather together and focus it with other narcissists on one person and, and we call that a scapegoat. And so scapegoating has been alive and well. I urge you to look no further than the cancel culture. That is all scapegoating mechanism. And it is no different than guillotines in 1789 France. It's the exact same thing. Same grievance, same everything, same delusionality, same mass formation, same mob behavior. Happened in Russia beginning of the 20th century, happened in Germany in the middle of the 20th century. And it happened to us. It's happening to us now. And it certainly happened during COVID So.

[Lauren Everts]

Does it, does it present itself typically in times of strife or stress like Covid?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, sure, because. Yeah, I mean, because that's. People get scared, right. And then they start going into camps and blaming and becoming more delusional. Right, but. But it is usually the case when you're threatened, like back to 1789. They had famine. They had real problem. And by the way, the Prussians were coming across the border. I mean, they. They didn't trust their king. And so, boom, now you have the Jacobins.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So when you say detachment from reality, they're not.

[Michael Bostick]

It's a curious word, detachment. I just want to say a.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Or delusion.

[Michael Bostick]

Delusionality. A denial of reality.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

How do you yourself, in your brain, diagnose someone with narcissism? What are the layers of the onion? Is there really extreme cases?

[Michael Bostick]

Sure. I mean, there's different kinds of narcissism. There's sort of grandiose narcissism, and there's. There's the word I'm looking for. They're narcissists that are dangerous to be around, let's face it. And it can begin to slip into sociopathy, where you really, really don't care about other people's feelings, and other people are just there to be manipulated to serve your needs. Okay, so how do I see it? It can be very hidden. There can be a reverse narcissism. People that have a lot of codependency are sort of narcissistic, right. Even though they're focused on other people, they're really worried about themselves. And so the. You know, the sort of. Coming from the perspective of me, ultimately underneath it is a very deep sense of emptiness and shame and an incomplete sense of self. And when people don't get what they need when they're growing up to develop a full sense of self and a sort of a flexible regulatory, emotional system, they. They build something on top of it, and that something is something big that'll help protect them from the world and get from the world what they need. That's narcissism.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So when someone comes to you and you can't really see, how do you uncover it? What are your tricks to uncover it.

[Michael Bostick]

When I can't see it? Sometimes you won't know without somebody's. And you don't even know if it's real narcissism or some just narcissistic trait. Right. You have to know people for a while. Like, in my world, which is addiction, everybody comes in looking like a cluster B, right? No, borderline. Mostly sociopath and borderline. And by the time we finish treating them a year later, almost all that goes away. And I never know if it goes away because they have to change in order to survive. Or was it really just a manifestation of the addiction or was it really there in the first place and it was just part of the addiction? And they just. The treatment got them through it. I don't know. You don't see it in people normally getting over it without some. Some really big reason.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

If they have borderline though, is it and they're an addict. If an addict comes in with borderline, does the borderline go away usually?

[Michael Bostick]

Usually, yeah. Not always, but at least the, the. The. Some of the intense features go away for sure. Because they can't survive functioning like that. Their. Their addiction will recur.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

What addictions are you seeing right now? The most?

[Michael Bostick]

The thing that's other than opioids, which is like ridiculous. Cannabis has gone way up because of the concentrations of THC in the cause it's gotten so strong, so strong, so addictive. Now. I would just say that if you worry a problem with weed, if you're doing dabs, you have a problem with weed.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

What's a dab?

[Michael Bostick]

It's like wax and they sort of take out a torch and a glass pipe and they get these high concentrations of the high concentration THC rapidly delivered to the brain.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I notice people are. A lot of people are leaving alcohol behind and switching to weed. Have you noticed that?

[Michael Bostick]

I've noticed a lot of. Joe Rogan just said today I saw it on something that he stopped drinking. Yeah. But he didn't say anything about weed, so I figured still. Still with the weed.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I don't know if I don't know what he said about weed. I do. I saw he stopped drinking. But I noticed a lot of people are like they're.

[Lauren Everts]

Nightclubs are shutting down because the young kids aren't out.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

There's not as much alcohol use.

[Michael Bostick]

Is that it seems like it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

I know, I know. My age group is certainly starting to cut down because it affects you. You know, it's like you can't.

[Lauren Everts]

I even smell alcohol. I'm hungover for a week these days. Once in a while, not as much.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I can't wait for a freezing cold margarita. I'm going to be honest.

[Michael Bostick]

I get it. I listen.

[Lauren Everts]

It's rare.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I'm ready for that. It's much rarer than what effects are you seeing from the cell phone on mental health.

[Michael Bostick]

Not good. I think that's part of the disconnect from reality. I think it's keeping people. They live in a world where they think they understand what's real and what isn't and they just don't. Corolla. I know you had it here recently. He calls it a zero gravity where everything just comes to you. You just dash, you know. Doordash. Or Amazon. It just all kind of comes magically. Money doesn't exist. Human experience, human interaction doesn't exist. I don't have to go to a.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Party and meet people are annoyed with human interaction. It's become an annoyance.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, this is another problem you're, you're putting your finger on, which is I'm giving a lecture next week and it's a very stressful job. This group I'm speaking to is in a very, very stressful career and they wanted some advice on, you know, how to manage all that. And I started doing some research on it. And you go to all the professional societies now, they go find a quiet place and meditate and ask you ask for relief, take days off. And I thought this is nuts. These people. When I was in training, when we felt overwhelmed, we moved in, we pushed, we pushed because you needed to develop skill and resiliency and capacity to hand grit. So I decided I'm going to have a totally, I'm going to go through all the, the safe space stuff for the group and then just go, hey, do it. It's all bs. You need to expose yourself. Exposure therapy is what we do in mental health. Now how do you treat OCD and anxiety exposure? Lean in. You have to do it in a certain way, in certain doses. And people gain the capacity to regulate in the setting of exposure. Not when you isolate them, when you remove them from the stimulus, they can never ever manage it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I worry about this and I wonder if maybe you and your wife worry about this too. I work a lot on my phone. Like that's a lot of people do. I worry about the effects that it has on children. If I don't ever want my children to feel like they're being dismissed by me or Michael. What, what is your take on that?

[Michael Bostick]

So I think the important thing, the television did the same thing, right? And work does the same thing too. So. So the important thing is to know what kids need, right? So what kids need is many, many, many thousands of hours of face to face contact where you're totally available and attuned to them. And by attuned you have to the way the, the brain you come in with your genetic endowment, right? And we end up developing attachment. And attachment is sort of the, the modifier of, of the relationship between the environment and the genetics, right. If you're securely attached, even if you have some genetic liabilities, that secure attachment will help you build an emotional landscape of regulation. So emotional regulation and self are the two goals, right? This is what kids need and in order to build that emotional regulation. What they need is many, many thousands of hours of attunement. Like you just going, you know, just looking and you know, you do, when they're a baby, all the time, that, that needs to be done throughout childhood. And then somewhere, 4, 5, 6, they start moving out into the world and then coming back for refueling with you and you. And the refueling has to be done, you know, right. Face to face, eye to eye, where you're, you're opening yourself to that child. If, if you misread the emotions, right, the child doesn't make a robust connection between their spontaneous emotions and what we call second order representation. It turns out what we reflect on our face has a lot to do with what the child needs to build that emotional landscape. So, for instance, if one of your kids comes up to you, they're three years old. I hurt my finger. What do you do? Kiss it?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Put my phone down if I'm on it.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. Hopefully what you do, what you do is something that happens sort of automatically is first you go, you have a boo boo, right? You do a pretend expression on your face of that child's emotion. You're not overtaken by the child's emotion. Oh my God, you're always hurting herself. That child is not getting what he or she needs. You're like that sadness that you're feeling. I'm reflecting on your face, mirroring it, mirroring it. But I'm not catching it. It's not overtaking me, and I'm not having my own reaction to it. I'm just staying present and calm. As the child's emotions come at me, I reflect it back. I. I give the child maybe some soothing affects alongside of that. And that exchange is how the child comes to understand their own emotional landscape. So how it's all done on a very subconscious level, you know, facial movements and stuff, is what the child is zeroing into to connect with those deeper emotions.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Which is why you can't have the phone in front of your face, because they won't get that.

[Michael Bostick]

Exactly.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

How did you, as busy as you are, you're such an entrepreneur and you're working. Do that with three children.

[Michael Bostick]

Susan. How did I do that? She's here.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

How did you guys, how did you guys do that with three children? To create a secure attachment with all of them.

[Michael Bostick]

And I was a workaholic. Bad.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So what did you do?

[Michael Bostick]

No, we did our bet. We did the best we could.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I know, but.

[Michael Bostick]

And thank God. Thank God. Part of my workaholism is so she could stay home and do that. And she was there and a very dedicated mom.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

But how did. When you're saying you were a workaholic, how did that. With three. Three triplets or a set of triplets. How did it transpire? Like, how did you start to notice that it had effect on them if it did?

[Michael Bostick]

My workaholism.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

I didn't until years later, one of them brought it up like, you were never around. So. Yeah.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So what do you do as Dr. Drew? What do you say?

[Michael Bostick]

I say, tell me more.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

And they just talk to you about it?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, because I. You're right. If you could go back, we were in survival mode. I don't think I could have done differently. We were in full survival mode.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I mean, I don't think anyone gives you a handbook on how to manage fame. Working and triplets. It's not.

[Michael Bostick]

And a practice of medicine. I mean, I was in two. I had three different medical careers going simultaneously. Ridiculous.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So if you were to give advice as us, with young kids doing what we do on this platform, having our phone around, what would you tell us?

[Michael Bostick]

Put your phone down.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Whenever they. Whenever they come in the room, put it down.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, okay, so I have a friend that. She's a psychologist, a lawyer, and all she does is, particularly adolescent girls and her children. She only allows them, I think, one or two hours of their own phone time per day, period. End of story. Not open for discussion. And I would try to find some structured way of doing something similar with your phone. Something structured where you're like, okay, I've got work now. I've got to go do work. Not that I'm scrolling, doom scrolling on the phone. It's like, it's work right now, maybe even in front of the computer. So it's not. This doesn't have the same sort of impact, the phone itself. But you gotta be ready to really fight that fight about the phone. It's really hard.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

What I've realized is, like, I have to have such specific, purposeful boundaries around it. And if you aren't thoughtful about that, it will run you.

[Michael Bostick]

That's a great way of saying it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

It's like, there is no phone in my bed. There is no phone. When I wake up, there is no phone. You know, when I'm trying to connect with my kids, I really try to be thoughtful. But it is a lot of work.

[Michael Bostick]

I know.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Especially when you're a workaholic.

[Michael Bostick]

You're a workaholic and you have a digital media company. You know, it's really Wild.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, I mean, you have been in the world of addiction for years. I mean, I believe that this is one of the greatest addictions of our time.

[Michael Bostick]

I mean, again, I always worry about us overuse. Utilizing the. The construct of the. Of addiction as a model. But. But yes.

[Lauren Everts]

Is it the same kind of brain patterns or.

[Michael Bostick]

No, it is, it is. It's just not quite the same. But. But there. So the way our brain is constructed, we have a reward apparatus. People get all screwed up about dopamine. Right. When you get a dopamine surge, you don't feel anything. I'm totally convinced of that, except the urge or the thought or the desire to repeat whatever it was that gave you that dopamine surge. It's a part of the brain. There's two systems in the brain. There's the liking system and the wanting system. Liking is endorphin, weed, opiates, sex, food. Wanting is the part that says that was good for survival. Do that again. You have to do that again to survive.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

If you.

[Michael Bostick]

And that's what gets taken over in addiction. You don't even like it anymore, and you're still doing it. Okay. That's what addiction is in this thing. It's dopamine, but it's not at a level where, Yeah, I don't want to.

[Lauren Everts]

Correlate this to alcoholism or drugs.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, it's a little different. It's the same system, same idea. It's the medial forebrain bundle. It's the shell of the nucleus accumbens. That's where the do it again part of the brain is. And that's what's happening with the phone.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

You mentioned opiate addiction. Why is that so. So high?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, it really started back with the. My profession and the over prescribing of opiates. We're still in the aftermath of all that.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So you. You think that it's still being overprescribed?

[Michael Bostick]

No, I think the people that got addicted to opiates are still around from that, and now they're heroin addicts and fentanyl addicts.

[Lauren Everts]

Lauren and I talk about some heavy topics on this podcast. I know we're always out there talking to different people and alternative health, talking about the things that are affecting our overall health and being like our environments. And listen, many are becoming aware that we live in an environment our biology was never designed for. In addition to talking about those things, we also like to be a resource for people to combat the everyday stresses, which is why Lauren and I love talking about products like armor Colostrum. Ever since we had the founder of Armor on this podcast, we have been huge fans of the product. We take it in the morning, our kids take it, our dogs take it. You can take it in these single serving packs, they come in these jugs and you can have it in a drink, or you could just take it right in powder form. And here's the thing, many of these modern assaults are disrupting cellular signaling, negatively impacting gut health and accelerating aging. Armor Colostrum revives cellular signaling, bolstering our health from within to defend against everyday threats. Colostrum is nature's first whole food with over 400 bioactive nutrients that work at the cellular level to reactivate your body's innate capacity to regenerate and thrive. So if you're interested in strengthening your immune system, fortifying your gut health, igniting your metabolism, revitalizing hair growth, enhancing skin radiance, or fueling performance in recovery, arm help you do so. So check them out. We've worked out a special offer for our audience. Receive 15 off your first order. Go to tryarmor.com skinny or enter skinny to get 15 off your first order. That's T-R-Y-A R M R-A.com skinny we spend a ton of time on this show talking about how to get the proper nutrients supplements, how to take care of ourselves, how to be healthy. But let's not forget the children in our lives. This is why Lauren and I love talking about high health. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise, filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gumm additives growing kids should never eat. That's why Haya created a superpowered chewable vitamin that kids love. I know our children love it. They wake up every single morning and ask for it. It's become part of their habit, part of their routine. We take our supplements together as a family. We're all about encouraging healthy habits for the long term and Haya helps us as a family do so. Are you tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens? Haya now has a Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods, a chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids. Packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power, development and digestion. Just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. So make sure to check that out. In addition to all that, the same multivitamin that more than a million kids and parents love are now available with Disney's the Lion King with a new Lion King unboxing experience including Lion King bottle and Lion King stickers. And of course we've worked out a special deal with High up for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order to claim this deal you must go to hiahealth.com skinny Is this deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H I y a h e-a l t h.com skinny and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I see so many people so focused on creams and lotions and masks and they're still experiencing things with skin care like blemishes or clogged pores. And I always ask them, have you you purified and checked the water that you're showering in and washing your face in? So enter Jolie. Jolie is a beauty wellness company that purifies the water that we shower in for better skin, hair and overall well being. So they have a filtered shower head. It's the best in class for removing chlorine and heavy metals. And it's the only lab tested and clinically trialed filtered shower head on the market. Here is some crazy facts. It's clinically proven to reduce hair shedding in 81% of people. It also helps you maintain your color, which is a big deal for me because I dye my hair. And it helps to reduce hair frizziness by 40%. So chlorine's added to our water system to disinfect it and kill bacteria. But chlorine's damaging to the hair and skin and Jolie fixes this. They have a beautiful, sleek design. It's really pretty. It's the perfect combination of form and function. You should also know this is important, that it gives you strong water pressure so you're not going to get like a couple drips. Jolie will give you your best skin and hair guaranteed. Head to jolieskinco.com skinny to try it out for yourself with free shipping. And if you guys don't like it, you can return your Jolie for a full refund within 60 days, no questions asked. When you look back on celebrity rehab and all the work you did there, doesn't it make you want to do it again? I feel like you need to bring.

[Michael Bostick]

It now and there's so many people I'd love to bring in too. And it would be different. We would do it a little differently to have a whole different emphasis. But VH1 won't even talk about it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Well, why does it have to be on VH1?

[Michael Bostick]

They own it. They own the whole thing.

[Lauren Everts]

But why do they not want to talk about it?

[Michael Bostick]

Who do we got to call over that? Help me? I don't know.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Why can't you do your own spin on it? Is there a non compete thing?

[Michael Bostick]

The producer that I did it with has actually tested that, and VH1 has said no.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Okay, well, I'm gonna put it out there into the ether that I think that there should be a celebrity rehab with a new, fresh spin, like you said, and that VH1 needs to get on it because people want to see celebrities that are dealing with the same problems that they're dealing with. Yeah, yeah, they want it. It almost like, I don't want to say normalizes it, but it makes it less taboo.

[Lauren Everts]

When was the last season?

[Michael Bostick]

No, it's the road in. So people.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

It affects anyone. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much fame you have. It's addiction is addiction is addiction and.

[Michael Bostick]

Mental health any mental health issue, all the same.

[Lauren Everts]

What was the year the last season aired of that? How long has it been?

[Michael Bostick]

2009, I think.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Okay, well, who out of all of them, who was your favorite person on the whole show?

[Michael Bostick]

It's like, who's your favorite child? You know, when. You know, who I really had deep affection for was Jeff Conway.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Huh. So you, like, really wanted to help him get better.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. We worked with him for a long time afterwards, too, and it was just impossible. And it was because my peers kept giving him meds. They kept. Kept even. When I take him off everything, his pain would go away. He'd start dancing and feel good. He's a drug addict, so he'd go back and see the pain people and they'd go, why do you listen to these guys? I told you, you're gonna need to take this the rest of your life. Eventually died of it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Is that because celebrities have, like, pull over all these people?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, that's a whole other issue, which is that the sort of the Michael Jackson syndrome.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Right, Right.

[Michael Bostick]

Which is. And I just said it today to somebody. I think I just tweeted about it. Somebody was getting special care. Oh. President Trump got a CT of the chest, and Nicole Sapphire and I were speculating on X. Why do you get a CT the chest? You pretty much it was a coronary calcium score, maybe. But you CT of the chest, that there's a smoking history, and sometimes people advocate for it in their 70s. Anyway. We were just sort of going back and forth about it, and I finally said, look, special care is usually not good care, because the standard care is a standard for a reason. If you're getting somebody going, I'm going to give you special care. Or let's say, I'm so excited that you come to me, it's not good. I'm not going to be using my judgment properly. And if that person is an addict, what they do is. And I've seen this a million times, the doctor gets sucked into it, ends up prescribing something addictive. The patient says, I've never felt so good. No one else would do this for me. You're the best doctor I ever had. Dr. Starts feeling good, they get strung out. Dr. Realizes there's a problem, says, hey, we got to stop this. Then the patient goes, I'm going to destroy you. I'm going to make sure no one ever sees you. You're the worst doctor ever. And they're just in this weird. And Conrad Murray got stuck in that with Michael Jackson, right? Only you. Only you can treat me. Only you. And then he's in there going, what? A propofol infusion. Oh, my God. It's crazy.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Let's talk about relationships. Last time you were on the show, something that really resonated with people, and I remember you said, this is. You said, open relationships. You've never seen them work in your whole entire career.

[Michael Bostick]

Never.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Is your stance still the same?

[Michael Bostick]

It's certainly being tried more often. This is back to that world of delusionality where it should work, work. So should communism. There's lots of things should work.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So, Taylor, sorry, I can't do an open relationship with you. It's not going to work, Taylor.

[Michael Bostick]

They just don't. The human can't handle it. Just consider this. There are armies of professionals trying to help two people have a relationship. You think bringing a third person in is going to make that easier or better? No. If people want to do it, I have no objection to it. It's just. It. It just. Look at the shows, all the shows with the sister wives and stuff, how miserable everybody is. Everybody ends up miserable, especially the women. Especially the women end up just so miserable. And it's not. Intimacy is. We're set up so it's between two people. It's just how we're set up. And it's. If we're different, I would encourage having lots of people involved with it. It just isn't just how we are as humans.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

When you counsel couples, what's the main thing that you see in the relationship.

[Lauren Everts]

From what perspective?

[Michael Bostick]

I'm dealing with addiction when I deal. So it's all over the place.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So with addiction, there's a different element of it is what you're saying.

[Michael Bostick]

There's, you know, there's. The hardest part in addiction is to get the non addict to realize they've got a lot of work to do too. A lot, A lot talk about that, this codependency. And some people actually think that's harder than the addiction. It's a more tender, delicate kind of a work that people do.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

You like Al Anon for that or no?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Oh yeah, you do. The CO programs are essential. They're not to me. To me, 12 step isn't the whole story for anything, but it is essential story in all of it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

At this point in your career, when you work with addiction, is it one on one? Is it group?

[Michael Bostick]

How are you working day to day to day? I'm just thinking general medicine. Every other day somebody calls me with a consult on addiction and I do a lot of referral and help and guidance and that kind of thing. I'm not running a program anymore. It was too much and I got out really because of the over prescribing of opiates. I got so sick and tired of my peers killing my patients. Just it was over. It was over and over and over again. It was awful.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So they were just over prescribing every time your patients would go to them and then you were trying to manage the addiction and they would just keep over prescribing.

[Michael Bostick]

So it was just prescribing at all. I mean, just the fact that they would prescribe them opiates and the whole thing would take off again.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

That's so frustrating.

[Michael Bostick]

It was terrible. And then they die. And then they die and people go, oh, so you're very successful treating opiate addiction? We were very successful. When the patient didn't go back to the opiate prescriber, which they're drug addicts. They do. I understand that, but the doctor should have been holding that line, sending it back to us, not saying to the patient, why do you listen to those guys? I told you, you have to take this forever. You have an opiate deficiency, essentially. People have not been talking about how much my profession was responsible. They want to blame the Sackler family and oxycon. Yeah, yeah. Duplicitous. He was my profession did the whole thing. Both also in 1890, we had our first opiate prescribing epidemic. In 1890 is when we invented the hypodermic needle. Morphine sulfate, massive opiate over prescribing Harrison narcotic act. Doctors turned away from opiates for 50 years. Then we started having the sort of success treating cancer. And patients were living with cancer and starting to have cancer pain because they were living longer with cancer. And a group of doctors came in and said, you should be using opiates. And everyone's like, oh, we don't describe. Okay, opiates are addictive. Be careful. And they ended up using them successfully and appropriately to treat cancer pain. Then they looked around and went, nobody should ever have any pain, ever. Pain is what the patient says it is. Pain control is what the patient says it is. Let them have whatever they want. And that was essentially how the thing got rolling then. Same thing as Covid. It was the exact same thing is then they got the regulatory agencies involved, they got the governments involved, they got the VA involved, they got the departments of mental health and the hospital administrators. You have to prescribe opiates and if you don't, you're committing a crime. Sound familiar?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I have rapid fire questions. Most ridiculous health trend you've seen lately. It's a lot.

[Michael Bostick]

Let it rip.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Let it rip.

[Michael Bostick]

There's just so many odd things that people are talking about. Hold on, let me just. There's just so many weird things.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I got a salmon semen facial before I was pregnant.

[Lauren Everts]

It's exosomes.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Salmon semester.

[Michael Bostick]

Exosomes are good. I'm sighing because I have a hobby of listening to French radio in the morning and stuff. And I just love that. It's just a weird hobby.

[Lauren Everts]

Speak fluent French. That's interesting.

[Michael Bostick]

Pretty good.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

That's cool.

[Michael Bostick]

And I heard a guy say this morning he was a physician and he goes, look, I'm not an expert in health. I'm an expert in disease. And I'm too busy doing that. And I thought, oh God. People need to understand that as physicians. This is exactly right. We are not health experts. And we don't really. I don't even know who the health expert is right now. I just know that we're not doing a great job as physicians.

[Lauren Everts]

Darshan Kaman, who has Next health here, and he was. He's a.

[Michael Bostick]

We know them, you know them, it's great.

[Lauren Everts]

And he was, you know, he's a great.

[Michael Bostick]

He's great. I love his story. You know, he's a cancer surgeon to begin with. And he was like, I can't stand this anymore. Yeah, he seems all the surgeries, but.

[Lauren Everts]

He was saying that he himself, for his own personal health, like, had none of the answers for himself, and he got super unhealthy, and he had to go to other people that had those answers. And he was a medically trained doctor, surgeon all.

[Michael Bostick]

We aren't health experts. We do have to make ourselves. And that's why I've gotten more involved in health and exercise and diet and stuff lately, because I've done it my whole life for myself and my family. I'm embarrassed that I really haven't done it for my patients or other people. But let me think of weird health trends. Well, I didn't finish the story about the multiple partners thing.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Oh, go ahead, finish that.

[Michael Bostick]

Because that, you know, that whole thing. People tell me there are people for whom it works. I'm just not seeing it. And that's fine. God bless you. If it does work. It just. To me, it just inevitably. Do you watch 90 Day Fiance?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I've never watched that. Everyone tells me I have to watch it.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay, there's one right now where it's like a typical outcome of somebody bringing a third in. It's like, this is like that. Oh, yeah, that's the way it goes. That's the way it always goes.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Well, men can't multitask to begin with, so a third to me, for a man just sounds like a fucking clusterfuck.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But how about. How about how women feel about each other when they're vying for the same male?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

They don't feel good.

[Michael Bostick]

I don't think there's stuff that comes.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Out that everyone wants to be the unicorn, Dr. Joe.

[Michael Bostick]

They can't control it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah, they want to be the unicorn.

[Michael Bostick]

But this is back to my saying, you got to be realistic about the human experience. What we are, how we behave, how we react. It's just. It's good. It's all good. We're good the way we are, but we don't have to make ourselves into something that we're not.

[Lauren Everts]

Listen, Lauren, like, every guy has their favorite part. Pair of pants. And I think about it like if you had two girls, it's like, you're always gonna. You know, one's gonna. Over time. Does that make sense to you?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I do think it would be nice from a perspective where I could offset some of his energy onto someone else. I guess that would be like.

[Michael Bostick]

Women do say things like that.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah. Like, he's Chatty Cathy in the morning. I could be like, listen, Sarah can take him.

[Lauren Everts]

But what if Sarah is tired of it, too? That Time. Then it's like, Lauren, it's a big problem. We could try it. You want, you want to. Who you got in mind?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I don't know. Let's bring Brad Pitten and see.

[Lauren Everts]

Listen, he's good looking enough that I might say yes. I don't know.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Wow. Okay. Best celebrity advice you ever gave. That actually worked.

[Michael Bostick]

Celebrity advice. I gave that actually. You're asking me things that are sort of across so many years. I have to come up with these things from out of my playbook.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

This is what the audience wants.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay, best celebrity advice.

[Lauren Everts]

Like two way celebrities.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

How to deal with celebrity.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I was gonna say the best at. Oh, oh.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Or it could be your interpretation. It depends.

[Lauren Everts]

What kind of question is this?

[Michael Bostick]

No, this is a good one. This actually I've got.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

It's a good one. Michael.

[Michael Bostick]

This is somebody. This is a big movie star who had real trouble with addiction and he dropped away for a while. You can speculate about who I'm talking about. He went away for. He had really bad addiction and he went away. I worked with him a little bit and when he was he. When he finally got serious and just went away for like three years. And at the end of that three years, I saw him and he goes, should I ever act again? And I thought, oh, that's a heavy, heavy question. Both because he's a brilliant actor and it's like I'd be taking that away from him and from us. And I just said, I don't know, I'm not. I didn't say. I said, oh, no, you're going to return to acting. I did not say that. I said, well, let's just see how it goes. Let's see. And I worked with a very little bit when he went back into acting where he just stayed connected with all of his sober support and he started doing small things and then more things and then more things, then back to the huge career again and was fine and still sober. And that to me was one of the most thrilling examples of how you're supposed to do it.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

That's cool that you helped him. That's cool that you're a part of that.

[Michael Bostick]

I was a tiny. And when I say, I don't even know if he would remember it, to tell you the truth. It was such a tiny piece, but it jumped out at me. He's asking me a heavy question. And then the little bits of help that I did do after that, he just responded to all of it. He was ready. He was ready to do the work.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

What's One thing people would be shocked to learn about you, something that people don't know about you did.

[Michael Bostick]

I have all the same things that everybody else has. Everything. You name it, I got it. I have codependency. I have depression. I have anxiety disorder. I was really bad in college.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So what did you do knowing everything you knew when you were.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, don't even start Me. One of the reasons I got into all this is because what was done to me. So here I am in college in New England, you know, sort of didn't know I was going to be living in New England. And it started sort of getting my ass kicked academically. I developed. I got lost in terms of what I wanted to do with my life. I developed panic attacks. I mean, disabling panic attacks. And I remember I went to the student health thing. No, no, I went to the. I went first to the mental health. The psychological services, which were not connected to the men, to the health department of the student services. It was in the bell tower. It was actually bats in the belfry. It was actually the psychological services was in the fricking bell tower.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Quasimodo and all.

[Michael Bostick]

I know. And I went up there and they went, yes, yes, this is not a medical problem, but it could be, so go down and get a medical evaluation. And as I went down to go to medical evaluation, this guy looks at me and he goes, just get it together. Take some long walks in the woods. And I was like, God, I would. If that would. I've tried every.

[Lauren Everts]

Was that my dad?

[Michael Bostick]

I know, right? Exactly. And I thought. And I got into disabling, horrible, chronic panic and depression because they so badly mismanaged me. And I just thought, first of all, I thought, somebody needs to be trained in what it is to give healthcare to a young person, to an adolescent. There was no adolescent healthcare then. And I thought, that's missing. Secondly, I'm kind of interested in depression and anxiety, and I want to make sure no one ever goes through what I went through. And so I kind of, you know, and I was into neuroscience in college, and so I sort of go in that path, but I was so badly mismanaged.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Oh, so it gave you. It gave you help on how to manage people moving forward.

[Michael Bostick]

It didn't. It gave me. It gave me perspective on how not to manage people and something I never want anybody to go through. What. What I went through. It was just. Oh.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

We had an expert come on the podcast and talk all about the benefits of fasting, and it was absolutely fascinating. I have done a fast like three times I've used the Prolon and it's amazing. It's the five day program and what I noticed is I just looked physically my best before going on vacation, but also I just felt good after the fast. I didn't feel hungry the whole time. I think it's the only nutrition program that really works because it's backed by noble winning science. So if you're going to look into a fast, that's the one that I can say I've done, I've tried, I loved. And fasting isn't just about shedding weight. It's about recalibrating your system and setting your health journey up for success. The one that I did specifically all three times was Prolon's five day program and it's a fasting mimicking diet that allows you to eat during the fast so your body's staying nourished while getting the benefits of a traditional prolonged water fast. If you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out. You'll love it. To help you kickstart a health plan that truly works, Prolon is offering the him and her show listeners and 15 off site wide plus a 40 bonus gift. When you subscribe to their 5 day nutrition program, just visit prolonlife.com skinny that's P R O L O N l I f e.com skinny to claim your 15 discount and your bonus gift. Prolonlife.com skinny I don't mess around when it comes to stretch marks on my stomach. I like to use one product and one product only and that is Biocia, their best selling algae body oil. Oh, it's so good. The texture, the feel, what it does for your skin. I had the opportunity of learning all about algae and the benefits of algae and if you want sculpted, silky, soft, glowing skin, you have to check them out. So I have not had stretch marks and I think a big part of that is I am militant about putting oil on my stomach. I've had other things like hyperpigmentation and cellulite, but I have not had stretch marks. So I take this very seriously. The one by Osea is clean, it's vegan, it's cruelty free, it's born in California, it's mother daughter founded and it has algae in it. It's their number one best selling product. So how I use it is two ways. I'll put it all over my stomach after a shower or I also and don't sleep on this, will use my dry brush. I'll use the Skinny Confidential dry brush before before I get in the shower and then I will get in like a cold shower, not too cold because I am obviously pregnant and it's kind of jarring right now. I'll get out and then I'll put it all over the backs of my legs and use the Skinny Confidential Body Sculptor on the back of my legs to break up the cellulite. These two products together, you can't go wrong, Rich. It's never greasy and clinically proven to instantly improve skin elasticity. It visibly firms and makes skin feel more sculpted and toned. Get healthy glowing skin for summer with clean vegan face and body care from OCA. Get 10 off your first order site wide with code [e-mail] you'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60. Head to o s e a malibu.com and use code skinny for 10 off.

[Lauren Everts]

With more and more information. More people these days are looking for alternatives in their social lives when they're going out and thinking about doing something other than drinking alcohol. This is why I'm excited to talk about Nowadays. Founded in 2023, Nowadays was created to put a new spin on drinking. The brand was born from the desire to change the future of how we consume beverages, offering an easy entry point to cannabis that can be enjoyed just like alcohol. So like I said, Nowadays is a cannabis infused beverage brand designed to deliver a light, buzzy experience without the hangover. Nobody needs another hangover. They are the worst. And nowadays cannabis infused spirits are the perfect base for your favorite cocktail and come in bottles with three variants. Microdose which is 2mg, low dose which is 5mg and high dose which is 10mg all with a crisp, light and citrus flavor. And additionally, Nowadays has recently launched their canned cocktails which are 12oz cans of 5mg of THC and 16oz of 10mg of THC. These ready to drink beverages come in four flavors, tropical, spicy, lime, citrus and berry and each can contains only four grams of sugar. You can expect a gentle lift within the first 10 to 20 minutes, followed by a social buzz in the next 20 to 40 minutes and then a smooth transition or subtle decline and your buzz by the next 45 to 60 minutes. Of course, nowadays ensures quality, the THC is responsibly sourced and every product is proudly made in the USA for a controllable and enjoyable experience. So for good nights and even better mornings, Nowadays is easy to purchase with direct to Door delivery. You must be 20 into [e-mail] and of course we've got an offer. Visit trynowadays.com and use code skinny at checkout for 20 off your first purchase. That's trynowadays.com and use Code Skinny for 20 off your first order.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Let's talk about my favorite female run nonprofit. I'm so passionate about the charity I stand with my pack. It's dedicated to saving animals and preventing cruelty locally and globally. So I was introduced to this charity by a friend of mine, Lucy, probably about five years ago, and she was really passionate about how much that I stand with my pack helps dogs. So what they do is they rescue dogs from high kill shelters in southern California and they help them find loving foster homes or forever homes. There is an urgent need right now for donations and fosters. So even if you can donate a dollar, every dollar counts. This goes to helping to cover medical care, food, transportation for rescue dogs. You can donate or sign up to [e-mail] that's istandwithmypack.org I also sometimes will just venmo them. It makes it really simple. More [e-mail].

[Lauren Everts]

I think a lot of people, including us, would be shocked to realize that about you. Do you still have to deal with those issues today or you've gotten so many tools?

[Michael Bostick]

I do. I'm prone to depression. It's kind of where my workaholism comes in because I noticed when I don't work a lot, my mood goes off a little bit.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, you just get like a little blue and you catch it or just a little.

[Michael Bostick]

I have to go exercise or something because it just gets a little sideways and I'm like. But because I always have. Still a lot of work. I'm coming to see you guys. I'm doing something interesting, but I need that arousal. It worries me for when I get much older and not doing much.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

How does that work with your wife? How do you guys.

[Michael Bostick]

How's that work together? Right now we're working together.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Are you a workaholic like him? Oh, it's always the husband. They always do it wrong. I like him when he's at work. You do? Yes, because it, like, it exhausts his energy.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I'm better. Yeah.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So when he gets in a bad mood, do you say like, go work, get out of my hair.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. I had to tell you something this morning that I just like, didn't. It's weird that she. We've known each other for so long. But she doesn't get it. It takes me, like, I wake up with a shitload of energy in the morning that's there. So I think she's used to that. But I was like. It takes me a second to, like, get my mood, like, in a place.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Where I'm this is the trick to waking up in the morning.

[Lauren Everts]

Not sad, but, like, I needed, like, a little moment to, like, see the.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Butterflies, and I had the unlucky. No, you have to. When you wake up and Dr. Drew can speak more eloquently on this, but everyone is looking for the saber tooth tiger the second you open your eyes. This is my thought. So what I this is about me? No, it's about everyone.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So when I open my eyes, instead of looking for the saber tooth tiger, I've immediately tricked my brain to look at what I'm grateful for. That little unlock. No, the second you youu're like, I.

[Lauren Everts]

Don'T think it's that.

[Michael Bostick]

I lately been doing gratitude list too.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Just. You just switch your brain. Instead of being like, oh. Instead of, oh, I have such a busy day. I'm so busy today. I say, wow, I get to interview Dr. Drew.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm the opposite. I'm the opposite. I look for the saber tooth tiger right before bed. Then I can calm it down and get rid of it. But when I wake up, I'm really not like that.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

My favorite thing about my husband is he wants to have a whole saber tooth tiger conversation when I have fucking mouth tape on at night, winding down in my sanctuary with red light and 528-hertz frequencies on.

[Lauren Everts]

And then after I get it out, I sleep like a baby.

[Michael Bostick]

Remember she asked about weird health things. I was thinking about red light. I was thinking about red lights. Just so you know. But okay, keep going. Those are the things that didn't seem dramatic enough.

[Lauren Everts]

I have a moment to, like, get my. You know, like that scene in Cinderella where all, like, the birds are chirping and she's singing. I need, like, I need, like, 30 minutes to get to that place When I first wake up, I'm like, I'm not there yet.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

He will all sleep the extra 30 minutes that you need to get there. And when I'm awake, hopefully I'm awake before this is the last question. It's really uplifting. Not, um, what defines a psych? A sociopath. Let me ask again. What defines a sociopath? You mentioned that at the beginning of the episode.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. And you almost said psychopath, right?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah, Maybe.

[Michael Bostick]

What's the difference? And people are. It's a controversial difference. Personally, I believe psychopaths don't have emotions. They've literally that part of their brain where emotions occur doesn't function normally. Do you ever see the lecture by a guy named James Fallon? He was UC Irvine professor who was studying psychopaths. And he'd isolated the part of the brain. He did functional MRIs, and he had the part of the brain where it wasn't working. And he said he got his families to come in and do a bunch of controls. And his control sat on his desk for a long time. And finally his. His research assistant says, you got to get these things off your desk. Just read them. So you read them, Read them. He goes, oh, one of the. One of the psychopaths got in on the. On the pile. Whose is this? And opens it up. It's his. It's the researcher. It's Dr. Fallons. And he was in disbelief about it and must be a mistake. Turns out he's a psychopath. And his. And he went and talked to his family members, and they were all like, oh, yeah, you're an asshole and you don't really have feelings. And it turned out he had a flavor of psychopathy where he particularly didn't have feelings about family members. And when he went back in generations, there'd been multiple murders of family members all the way back to his relative Lizzie Borden.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, whoa.

[Michael Bostick]

Who was a famous murderer of a family, of her family. And, yeah, so it can be genetic. It is genetic. It is psychopathy, okay? And psychopaths that get, like, abused in childhood, those are the dangerous ones because now they're acting out all this aggression and complaints.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

That's like the boy that, like, tries to kill, like a dog or something.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, well, yes, yes, that's sociopath and psycho. Sociopath is more in the cluster B personality, though some people might say that a severe sociopath is a psychopath to me, because I treat so many sociopaths. They are a certain thing. They can be very charming, very entertaining, great to be around. Psychopaths have to learn what emotions are and just behave as if they're emotions. And if you're carefully tuned into them, it feels weird when you're around them. Feels like empty and weird. But a sociopath can feel very engaged. They can be fun as hell.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

When you say that you treat a bunch of them, are you treating the addiction and that's a byproduct as being a sociopath, or you actually treat just sociopaths without addiction?

[Michael Bostick]

I'm only Seeing in the setting of addiction. But both types occur. Sociopaths get addiction and addiction that manifests with sociopathy. Okay. And hard to tell which is which, to be honest. But any events and sociopaths really, when push comes to shove, really don't care about you. You don't matter at all. You just matter what they, what you can do for them.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

When, when it clicks, when it, when someone's like, I don't want to say normal but not a sociopath and they have a sociopath around and it clicks that that person's a sociopath, what's the best way for the person to disengage?

[Michael Bostick]

What I want to say is if you're going to get away from that person, you got to do it swift.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

And sure, but what are the. Is there anything that they say or do that's a common denominator or.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I mean some sort of what we call pathognomonic, Some sort of sign that they say that, you know.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's more like lack of empathy.

[Michael Bostick]

You can't rely on them. They manipulate, they get stuff out of you if you regret it. And then they use it against you. They use it against you. They just master manipulators. That's the main thing to think about.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

And it's not to be confused with a narcissist.

[Michael Bostick]

There can be a lot of crossovers.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

It's hard to separate them.

[Michael Bostick]

Most are narcissists. Yes, it is hard. Most are narcissists.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

That's hard for you, I'm sure, to separate. I mean, maybe I don't really have.

[Michael Bostick]

To because they're going to change so much in treatment. I don't know what I have. I sort of. I'm agnostic when they come in because I just. You got to focus on treatment. Let's see where we end up.

[Lauren Everts]

I got a weird question. How can you tell if you're a sociopath if you're someone listening?

[Michael Bostick]

It's a really good question.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Michael wants to know if he's a sociopath. Doctor.

[Lauren Everts]

So if you find yourself a psychopath route.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I, I remember, I remember.

[Lauren Everts]

Was I abused? I don't know. I'm just kidding.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, the abuse for sure can set it up.

[Lauren Everts]

Lauren's abusing me. That's who's abusing you.

[Michael Bostick]

Different thing. I remember a couple times on radio we had young people call in and go, I think I've got a problem. I think there's something that way with me. And I go, why? They got. I don't really care when other people hurt. I know that I don't really have feelings. Other people or I see stuff on tv, other people seem upset, I'm not. And if I want something from somebody, I'll just figure out a way to get it. They're just very cold blooded and sort of. And so that's an indication.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, but if they're asking that question, is that a front or. It sounds like in a weird way they almost care, does that make sense? But they care about themselves.

[Michael Bostick]

They're worried about themselves. They're worried they might hurt somebody. They're worried that they're going to have a challenging life.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so self preservation is part of.

[Michael Bostick]

There's something called a pro social psychopath or sociopath where they can actually develop an exquisite moral compass because they have no moral sensibilities emotionally. It's a very mathematical thing, almost like a virtue signal. No, no, no, they mean it. They live by, they know that morality is. They have a sense of it being good, they want to live a good life and they develop a keen sense of right and wrong. But they don't have a.

[Lauren Everts]

It's like the Robin Hood of sociopaths.

[Michael Bostick]

Do you ever heard of the trolley experiment? Okay. Trolley experiment is there's a trolley going down the tracks and you can throw, you can pull this switch and if you do, let's see, how's it work? Yeah, and if you do, you pull the switch, the trolley goes off the track and kills somebody standing another track. But you save the five people in the trolley, do you pull the switch?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Well, does everyone die?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. No. The one dies, one guy dies.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

But if you don't pull it, no.

[Michael Bostick]

All five definitely gonna die.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Well, the right answer is who's the one guy? What does everyone in this room say?

[Michael Bostick]

You pull the strip.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I'm like, is this a trick question? I'm pulling the tricks.

[Michael Bostick]

The trick comes next. The trick comes next. So now, okay, so now same five people are going to the trolley, they're going to die. And you can only stop it by pushing. You're on a bridge. Now there's a fat guy with a backpack sitting next to you. You have to push him off the bridge, fall in front of the trolley to save the five, you're gonna push him off the bridge.

[Lauren Everts]

We got a psychopath in the opposite, he's our producer.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Well, all the five's gonna die, including you.

[Michael Bostick]

No, not you, not you. You're on the bridge. You're standing on the bridge. But this big guy next to you, if you push him off the bridge, you'll save the five. It's the same. It's the same as pulling the lever away.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Yeah. It feels like physically touch him.

[Michael Bostick]

It feels different. It feels different. That's moral sensibility. You have to touch on physically moral affect. And most people have trouble doing that. Right.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

It makes me uncomfortable.

[Michael Bostick]

Now where. Let's see what he says about this. Because this is where. This is what Taylor says when it goes next. So now the guy next to you is your son or your uncle.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

Do you push him off in front of the train?

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I would never push my son off for anything. Like, I hate to tell everyone, like if Michael's on that train, like, bye, Michael.

[Michael Bostick]

But I think, no, I think that's a normal mother. It's an. It's an interesting wrinkle on the experiment. We can maybe, you know, what does the motherly instinct do to moral sensibilities in extreme circumstances anyway? Most people can't do it. Most people cannot put a family member off. Most people can't push the fat guy standing next to them. And. But it's just. But the psycho, the pro social psychopath will literally say, it's just math. It's just math. I got to save the five.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

So if we just answered that, everyone who's listening would be like, fuck, I've been listening to a psychopath for seven years.

[Lauren Everts]

Social sociopath.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Or it's a pro social psychopath. Technically. Pro social psychopath. No, you're not. You're not a pro social psychopath. You just are. You're just a. What would you.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

A normie?

[Michael Bostick]

No. What would a killer of a husband be? A regicide. What would a husband killer be?

[Lauren Everts]

But if anyone, if anything happens to me, everyone in this room, a black widow.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

I would never kill you. That's. That's too on the nose for me. I would do something way more manipulative ending on sociopath.

[Michael Bostick]

Let's talk about something fun. Come on.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Killing you is way too easy. Don't worry.

[Michael Bostick]

You guys must have something just easy and casual for me to handle. No, no, no, no.

[Lauren Everts]

We haven't seen you in a long time.

[Michael Bostick]

I gotta get back here soon.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Anytime you. You can come on. Anytime. Where can everyone find what you're working on?

[Michael Bostick]

Where I want you to go? Always ask Dr. Drew. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at 2:00. It is a streaming show. It's on rumble. It's on YouTube.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

You do have an open invite on our show anytime. Because you are so good on the mic. So just anytime you want to come on you're welcome.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, we could just go on and on and on.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. I love hanging out with you.

[Dr. Drew Pinsky]

Thank you for coming on.