Everything You Need To Know About Gut Health, GLP-1s, Allergies, Toxins, & Big Pharma With Just Thrive’s Tina Anderson & Kiran Krishnan

Summary

Summary of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast Episode: "Everything You Need To Know About Gut Health, GLP-1s, Allergies, Toxins, & Big Pharma With Just Thrive’s Tina Anderson & Kiran Krishnan"

Introduction to Guests and Just Thrive

In this episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick welcome back two familiar guests, Tina Anderson and Karan Krishnan from Just Thrive. Lauryn expresses enthusiasm for their return, noting, “We have talked to them on and on for hours and hours” ([00:24]). Just Thrive is renowned for its probiotic products aimed at enhancing gut health through scientifically-backed strains.

Critique of the Pharmaceutical Industry

The conversation swiftly shifts to a critical examination of the pharmaceutical industry. Karan Krishnan shares his frustration with the overprescription of medications, stating, “They have influence on our media, they have influence on our medical schools. And that's where the problem is” ([05:09]). Michael Bostic elaborates on the economic pressures in Big Pharma, explaining, “It costs about $600 million to bring a drug to market, and pharmaceutical companies fail 999 out of a thousand times” ([05:41]). This high failure rate forces companies to develop complex drugs that often address symptoms rather than root causes, perpetuating long-term dependency on medications.

Gut Health and Environmental Toxins

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the detrimental effects of environmental toxins, particularly glyphosate (the active ingredient in Roundup), on gut health. Karan emphasizes, “Glyphosates are wreaking havoc on our gut” ([09:43]), highlighting the pervasive presence of these chemicals in non-organic foods and their insidious impact on the microbiome.

Study on Roundup's Impact on Gut Microbiome

Michael presents a compelling study conducted in collaboration with King's College London, demonstrating the adverse effects of Roundup on a pristine gut microbiome. “[...] by the end of the three weeks, the gut microbiome looked like that of somebody with years of inflammatory bowel disease” ([14:00]). This study underscores the vulnerability of the gut microbiome to common environmental toxins and the urgent need for effective interventions.

Healing the Gut with Probiotics

The guests advocate for the use of probiotics to mitigate gut damage. Michael explains, “We started adding the probiotic spores and then we started to see a reversing of those negative changes” ([16:59]). They discuss the benefits of Just Thrive’s probiotic capsules, which can help restore a healthy microbiome even in the presence of ongoing toxin exposure.

Vaccines and Microbiome Considerations

The conversation veers into the controversial topic of vaccinations and their impact on the microbiome. Michael shares his personal vaccination strategies, avoiding conjugate vaccines and those containing preservatives or adjuvants: “We stuck with those [vaccines] that are absolutely necessary” ([18:28]). Tina emphasizes the importance of personalized vaccination plans and the ability to ask questions: “You can come in with a birth plan” ([20:42]).

Microbiome Development in Children

Tina and Michael discuss critical practices for nurturing a healthy microbiome in children. Michael advocates for delayed bathing to preserve the skin microbiome and the introduction of probiotics early in life: “We took probiotic spores at week two” ([30:18]). They highlight the importance of natural microbial exposure, such as skin-to-skin contact and breastfeeding, to establish a robust immune system.

Managing Allergies through Gut and Skin Health

Addressing the rising incidence of allergies, Karan identifies dysfunctional gut and skin microbiomes as primary culprits. He explains, “When you lose your gut health, we become food sensitive, we develop allergies, we develop autoimmune conditions” ([40:01]). Michael adds that repairing both the gut and skin microbiomes is essential: “The gut skin axis plays a very important role for what your skin microbiome looks like based on what your gut microbiome looks like” ([40:01]).

Lifestyle Recommendations for Gut Health

The guests outline five pillars for reversing gut dysbiosis, as presented by Michael:

1. Diet: Emphasize high fiber intake, diverse foods rich in polyphenols, lean proteins, and healthy fats.
2. Avoid Toxins: Clean personal care products and reduce exposure to antimicrobials and pollutants.
3. Stress Management: Utilize meditation and other stress-relief practices to prevent gut dysbiosis caused by stress.
4. Exercise: Incorporate muscle-strengthening activities to release myokines, which support gut health.
5. Supplementation: Use probiotics and prebiotics to nourish the microbiome ([45:06]).

Bitters: Role and Benefits

A key feature of the episode is the introduction of digestive bitters by Karan. Bitters are natural plant compounds that aid digestion by activating bitter receptors throughout the body. Karan explains, “Bitters are natural plant compounds that have been used for centuries as a digestive aid” ([49:43]). Unlike tinctures, Just Thrive’s bitters are available in capsule form to avoid the unpleasant bitter taste and alcohol content.

Michael delves into the evolutionary significance of bitters, noting, “Bitters are signaling to your digestive tract to release hydrochloric acid and enzymes” ([52:43]). They aid in increasing stomach acid, improving digestion, regulating appetite through GLP-1 production, and enhancing overall digestive efficiency.

Natural vs Pharmaceutical GLP-1s

The discussion highlights the differences between natural GLP-1 production and pharmaceutical GLP-1 agonists. Michael cautions against synthetic GLP-1 treatments, stating, “Natural GLP-1 compounds are designed to hop on the receptor and hop off in 20-25 minutes, whereas pharmaceutical versions are prolonged to seven days” ([57:23]). He warns of potential risks associated with prolonged receptor activation, including immune dysregulation and metabolic issues, advocating for natural methods to stimulate GLP-1 through diet and bitters instead.

Recommendations for Adults with Gut Issues

For adults experiencing gut health challenges, Michael recommends adhering to the five pillars:

• Increase Fiber Intake: Aim for 30-50 grams of fiber daily through sources like psyllium husk, sweet potatoes, oats, nuts, and seeds.
• Diversify Diet: Incorporate a wide range of natural foods to support microbiome diversity.
• Minimize Toxin Exposure: Choose clean personal care products and reduce household chemical use.
• Manage Stress: Engage in regular stress-relief practices such as meditation.
• Exercise Regularly: Focus on muscle-building activities to support gut health.
• Supplement Wisely: Use probiotics like Just Thrive and incorporate digestive bitters into daily routines ([45:06]-[48:15]).

Recommendations for Children's Gut Health

Tina and Michael emphasize early intervention for children to foster a healthy gut and immune system. Strategies include:

• Probiotic Supplementation: Introduce spore-based probiotics early, around week two.
• Delayed Bathing: Preserve the natural skin microbiome by delaying the first bath.
• Clean Skin Products: Avoid lotions and soaps with harmful chemicals.
• Natural Microbial Exposure: Encourage behaviors like skin-to-skin contact and allowing gentle environmental exposures.

Michael advises integrating probiotics into children’s routines through enjoyable means like smoothies, ensuring consistent intake to support immune development ([61:07]-[61:58]).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reinforcement of the importance of maintaining a healthy gut and supportive microbiome as foundations for overall health and immunity. Tina and Karan promote Just Thrive’s products, emphasizing their role in daily health routines. They provide listeners with resources to learn more and connect through social media channels, encouraging proactive steps toward wellness.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tina Anderson on pharmaceutical influences: “They have influence on our media, they have influence on our medical schools” ([05:09]).
• Michael Bostic on the cost of drug development: “It costs about $600 million to bring a drug to market” ([05:41]).
• Karan Krishnan on glyphosate’s impact: “Glyphosates are wreaking havoc on our gut” ([09:43]).
• Michael Bostic describing the Roundup study: “By the end of the three weeks, the gut microbiome looked like that of somebody with years of inflammatory bowel disease” ([14:00]).
• Karan Krishnan introducing bitters: “Bitters are natural plant compounds that have been used for centuries as a digestive aid” ([49:43]).
• Michael Bostic on natural vs. pharmaceutical GLP-1s: “Natural GLP-1 compounds are designed to hop on the receptor and hop off in 20-25 minutes” ([57:23]).

This comprehensive discussion equips listeners with valuable insights into gut health, the impact of environmental toxins, the role of probiotics and bitters, and the need for a balanced approach to vaccination and pharmaceutical use. By emphasizing natural methods and proactive lifestyle choices, Tina and Karan provide actionable strategies for enhancing overall wellness.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Michael Bostic]

Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride.

[Tina Anderson]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential.

[Michael Bostic]

Him and her.

[Lauren Everts]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. Today we have two returning guests that we absolutely love. Tina Anderson and Karan Krishnan on the show from the company Just Thrive, which Lauren and I love so much. This episode we're diving into not only gut health, but bitters and how bitters have been used to increase gut health and efficiency in the past. We talk about allergies and why you may be struggling to combat allergies. We talk about how to feel better, how to look better, how to operate better. All the things. This episode is for anyone that's excited about health and wellness and looking to kick it up a notch in 2025. We could talk to them on and on for hours and hours. We have talked to them on and on for and hours. I think they might hold some of the records as most appearances on this show. With that, Tina and Karan, welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the Skinny Confidential.

[Michael Bostic]

Him and her.

[Tina Anderson]

We are back. How many times have you guys been on the show? People are obsessed. How many times?

[Karan Krishnan]

I've been on four times.

[Michael Bostic]

I think three.

[Tina Anderson]

For me, that is a lot. That might be like the top record.

[Karan Krishnan]

Really? Yeah. I remember it was November of 2020 and I was in Santa Monica and it was like a ghost town. Nobody was. The office building we were in, nobody was there.

[Tina Anderson]

That's wild. Well, people love to talk about the gut, the microbiome, especially on the show Wellness. And this episode I thought we could theme about gut health. But also we want to get into that digestive tract.

[Lauren Everts]

Somebody. I was talking to a reporter the other day and they were like, you know, this trend of wellness. Like, when did you. You guys are just now starting to talk about. Well, I'm like, where have you been? I'm like, what is going on? I'm like, we've been talking about this for about 10 years now.

[Karan Krishnan]

Ye.

[Lauren Everts]

Anyways, guys, welcome back.

[Karan Krishnan]

Thank you.

[Tina Anderson]

What? Let's get the lay of the land. Just give us a quick intro just in case people are unfamiliar with both of you. We'll start with you, Tina.

[Karan Krishnan]

I'm the co founder and CEO of Just Thrive. I started it with my husband about 11 years ago and we found out about these Incredible probiotic strains. And that's what brought us to the market. But we were really frustrated. We were in the pharmaceutical industry. We were very frustrated with the abuses that we saw in the industry with overprescribing of medications. You know, here we were in an industry thinking we were making a difference, making the world a better place. And while we were in the industry, we saw pharmaceutical reps come into our office and say, my job now is to go to every doctor in this hospital system and increase or decrease the number that they would prescribe a medication for. Like, in other words, you know, give a different number when the medication wasn't necessarily necessary. So we saw the abuses in the industry, but we also saw the abuses with family members where they were on one pharmaceutical masking symptoms, another pharmaceutical masking another symptom, and then never getting back. And so we really wanted to do something that was more in line with who we are, the way we lived our lives with our three children and through, you know, a lot of prayer, meditation, being at the right place at the right time. We met Karan, and Karan told us about these incredible strains that were licensed out of London University. And from there, just Thrive Probiotic was born. And it's been the most gratifying career journey I've ever been on.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm Karan Krishnan. I'm a research microbiologist. I had prided myself on something called bridging the translational gap. Right. The translational gap is this area where there's a lot of research going on in institutions like universities, the NIH and places like that, and very little of it actually translates into things that impact humans. Right. Because a lot of research at university level is being done for the sake of research. That's what they do professionally. And every study that they do opens up and asks more questions and they get deeper and deeper and deeper into it. Really rarely do things translate into things that actually affect people. So my goal was, because I understand that part of the research and I understand the needs in the market space, I want to bridge that gap and take technologies that are being developed and bring it to humans and do human studies and develop products for it and all that. So that became my focus. Probiotics in the gut space became a huge area of focus for me because as a microbiologist, I understand microbes and their whole life. And then I had the privilege of meeting Billy and Tina and working with them to help develop the just thrive.

[Lauren Everts]

You were not in the pharmaceutical space?

[Michael Bostic]

No.

[Lauren Everts]

At all?

[Michael Bostic]

Nope. I was in academics.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. That's right. And so when with now, with everything going on and, you know, a lot of the press around the pharmaceutical industry, you know, I think sometimes people start to think like, oh, there's like this big bad wolf. But I'm wondering, based on both of your experiences, is this like an incentives mismatch type thing? Is it like, why is there so much bad press now when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry? Not, you know, obviously, we all know some of the harms that these medications have done, but what do you think it really is idea is coming from it?

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah. Well, I've always said that, of course, there's a place for pharmaceuticals and they save lives oftentimes. I just have never felt that they. It's a place where you go for root cause issues. You know, when there's a root cause, they're great for, you know, covering up a symptom or treating a symptom, but they're not focused on getting to the root cause. And that's something that we really wanted to get into. And I do think that, you know, they're just. They're very incentivized to have influence. They have influence on our media, they have influence on our medical schools. And that's where the problem is. I mean, there is a place for pharmaceuticals, but it has just gotten out of control.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, there's. There's a big gap also in terms of, you know, how you get a pharmaceutical to market and what that then looks like fiscally. Right. So, number one, it. The cost and the time that it takes to get a drug to market means that that drug has to service a huge marketplace and they have to have protection. So it has to be patented and it has to be unique. They're not going to be able to utilize simplistic approaches. They to use the most complex approach because it has to be something no one's ever thought about, a compound that no one's created because they have to get patent protection on it. Right? So it costs, I think the last numbers I saw, on average, about $600 million to bring a drug to market, you know, in seven, eight years. And pharmaceutical companies fail 999 out of a thousand times in terms of developing products, right? So they might spend 10, 15, 20, $30 million on 999 compounds, and only one of them makes it. And so that entire structure means that they have to charge so much, they have to go after the most obscure mechanisms and all that that just interfere with processes rather than solving the actual health problem. Right. And then if you Think about it. They're incentivized for the people to continue to need the drug and be sick, because they want people to take it forever, because they have to make up all the losses that they've had.

[Tina Anderson]

It's funny that you say that, because this is, like, random, but the most famous eye drop brand, my nanny was. Her eyes were getting red, red, red, red, red, red, red. She couldn't figure it out. She went to all these doctors. She. Her head was feeling, like, tight, like, all just. She was feeling horrible. Her eyes were so red, and she was using her eye drops. And today she came to me and she said, my doctor told me to stop using this huge brand of eye drops, and it's gone. And I said, yeah, because I believe that a lot of these companies, like you just said to your point, like, they want you to keep using their products, so why not keep the eyes red, right? Because then you have to use it every day.

[Lauren Everts]

I also think the problem is with these issues. And, Tina, you. You kind of hit on the head, is there. There's a lot of sick care going on in this country where someone has an issue, and instead of figuring out why they have the issue, they just. They get on a pharmaceutical, and then they stay on it. And then it's almost like, if you say, let's get to the roots, that we can get you off that. It's like, no, this is how I'm living my life. This happens with depression. This happens with, obviously, medical supplies that are. Once people get sick with something. And what I like talking about with you guys is we talk a lot about why people get sick in the first place. And the way I rationalize it in my brain is if somebody comes to me and says, I'm broke, I want to know why. Like, I don't just say, like, okay, well, I'll help you, and I'll, like, give you a loan. And you keep doing the same behaviors over and over. I want to say, like, why are you broke? Are you spending too much? Do you not have. Do you carry too much debt? Do you not have a. Like, you buy things you don't need. But it's like, imagine just like, giving somebody a loan over and over and over again. They just keep doing the same thing without ever figuring out, like, why it is in the first place. Does that make sense?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. In fact, we were just talking about this before we came on because we were talking about how great it is right now that the awareness around toxicity and wellness and all that is increasing. Right. There are People like Casey and Cali means that are doing amazing jobs getting the word out there and how toxic our food supply is and drink supply is and all that. And Tina and I were talking about how we've been talking about these kinds of things for decades now. And it's great that the awareness is increasing, but what that awareness shows us is that we are sick and we are living in a toxic environment. Our role is to figure out exactly what to do about it. Right. So what can you do at an individualistic level to undo the damage and the toxicity that the food supply, the drinks and the beverages and all the things that we consume, the air we breathe, and the impact that that has on us? For us, it's about revealing what that does to the individual system. And then what can you do to intervene? Right.

[Lauren Everts]

So we've talked about this topic of gut health with you guys for a while now, but I wonder now, with everything going on in the awareness that's happening, what are you coaching people to start thinking about if they want to start making changes right away? Like, if they. They don't feel as well as they should? Like, what do you. What are you saying right now?

[Karan Krishnan]

Well, I think one of the things that's been brought to light like we talked about is with rfk, talking about all of the chemicals out there, the glyphosate, the pesticides that are sprayed all over our food. I mean, that's not going to go away tomorrow. So. And one of the reasons I feel like he's talking about this is because of the damage it's doing to the microbiome. It is literally destroying our gut health. Those glyphosates that are the active ingredient roundup being sprayed all over our produce is wreaking havoc on our gut. And so one of the big things we want to say is try to avoid those things. You know, we want to avoid all of these foods. We want to avoid foods that are not organic. Unfortunately, even our organic foods, they have some trace amounts of pesticides in them. But we want to avoid antibiotics. And antibiotics are not just antibiotics that we take, but antibiotics that are found in animal products. We want to live as clean as possible because all of these microplastics, all of these forever chemicals, are really wreaking havoc on our gut. And we know now that the gut is responsible for virtually every single aspect of our overall health. I mean, it's hard to find any system in our body that's not directly implicated by the un health or unhealth of our gut.

[Tina Anderson]

I feel Like, Roundup is like the next mesophilioma. Remember those commercials? Were you exposed to mesophilioma? Please call 1-800- I'm your lawyer. And then, like, you would call and like, you could get in a big settlement. Like I. Roundup is really. And here's something we just found out. The dogs, you walk your dog outside and you let them play on someone's lawn for a second or they pee or whatever. They're walking on the ground and they. They get it on their paws and then they bring it in the house. It's just. Yeah, you could spiral.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

You know what else they got? That what's taking a real hit today. I don't know if you saw this one. It's gonna be devastating for you. Girl Scout cookies.

[Tina Anderson]

What's wrong with that? I love Samoas.

[Lauren Everts]

They found was like the high, like super high level of glyphofates in the. Is the glyphosate.

[Tina Anderson]

But that's why when you eat one Samoa, you want the whole box.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tina Anderson]

They're just so good, you can't stop.

[Lauren Everts]

I heard that it's, you know, some of the most toxic cookies that you can have. And that's. That's a shame because you're not.

[Tina Anderson]

You're gonna really take down the Girl Scouts.

[Lauren Everts]

Carson, Pull it up. I swear.

[Tina Anderson]

So sad.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm pleading.

[Michael Bostic]

So let me describe a study we did on Roundup, right? So we did this with King's College in London, okay? We took. And this is in a pediatric gut modeling system. The reason why you can do it in a gut modeling system is you can't subject kids to the harmful effects of glyphosate, which we do every day, which is crazy. But the ethical boards will not let you do that in a research study. So this is. We took a pristine three year old's microbiome, and this is a child that we had to find in some fjords in Norway because we were looking for a child that was born vaginal birth, right? Nursed for almost a year, had no vaccines at that point, had no courses of antibiotics or anything, any medication. And she had a perfectly pristine microbiome. So we inoculated this artificial gut that has everything from the stomach all the way down to the end of the large intestine with her microbiome. And then we replicated it in three other systems, right? And then we stabilize it by feeding it food like normal fiber, protein, carbohydrates, and so on. And this is a beautiful, pristine, diverse microbiome. Ideal, if you would look at it from any perspective. Then we said, okay, let's feed it every day cereal. Level of Roundup, which is the level of Roundup that's accepted by the EPA in the US as quote, unquote safe. Right. And we wanted to use both the commercial product Roundup, but then also the active ingredient, glyphosate. And the thing is, the version we wanted to use, which is the most commonly used version in North America, we couldn't get it in Europe, so we had to ship it from a Home Depot in Florida to London. Right. Because you can't buy it. It's been banned in Europe, across the continent. So we fed this child's microbiome for three weeks with serial level of Roundup. And by the end of the three weeks, the gut microbiome looked like that of somebody with years of inflammatory bowel disease.

[Tina Anderson]

It's so messed up.

[Lauren Everts]

Can I ask just like a strange question? It's like, who's signing up for this experiment?

[Tina Anderson]

No, it's not. Wait, it's not the babies, they took it in a petri dish, right?

[Michael Bostic]

No, we had a full mechanical gut system, so it mimics an entire digestive.

[Lauren Everts]

I needed to clarify.

[Michael Bostic]

What we did is we collected the child's fecal matter for weeks and then we inoculate the system with it.

[Tina Anderson]

Sounds fun for the child.

[Lauren Everts]

I gotta keep up here.

[Michael Bostic]

But here's the crazy thing, right? It sounds crazy that we would do a study like that on a child, but there are 50 million children in the US that are in that study right now. Right.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, what I was gonna ask you is one thing I was also gonna comment on is like, it's a little, it's such a shame that it's so hard to find a pristine gut. I think that's what you're saying. Like you could, if you wanted to do that with a 50 year old, you, you literally, you can't.

[Tina Anderson]

By the way, if you guys are looking for something other than Roundup for your lawn. I work with Sunday lawn care and it's 100 non toxic lawn care. And my landscaper text me the other day and was like, holy, Lauren, this is, this is amazing. It's working so well. Just as well as the toxic chemicals. What else is Roundup found in besides lawn care products?

[Michael Bostic]

It's all our food.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah, all our food.

[Michael Bostic]

Got it. Because it's, it's used in agriculture. That's the biggest use of it.

[Tina Anderson]

Is there a way that's natural that you can get it off? Like I Soak my strawberries and vinegar and baking soda. Are there any things like that that we can do to get it off of our produce?

[Michael Bostic]

So unfortunately, no. You can get a portion of it off, but it actually makes its way inside the vegetable.

[Tina Anderson]

And what if it's organic?

[Michael Bostic]

Then it helps. Then you reduce the exposure to it quite a bit.

[Tina Anderson]

So they say, you know what, I don't believe anything anymore. So they say, I guarantee you, if we took an organic strawberry, let's do a test. You and I can do a test and let's see how much Roundup's on it.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh, I bet this not only will there be Roundup, but then all the versions of Roundup that are in the organic space that they can use. Right. So and then of course, not to mention all the microplastics and forever chemicals and chlorine and things that are on.

[Tina Anderson]

It, you have to move to Europe.

[Michael Bostic]

You basically have to move to a fjord in Norway. Not even a lot of, I mean, a lot of Europe has banned the types of things that we use here, which is crazy that we haven't caught up to that. But again, there's incentives, misalignment there. Right, but so our goal is that we can't escape most of these things. We can try to minimize them. We can't escape them. So then what can we do within our own system to try to undo some of that damage? Right. Because here's the good news on that study. So in the three weeks, in the three week period, the gut changed so much of that child. It started to look like somebody who had inflammatory bowel disease. Then we said, okay, can we keep feeding the gut the same glyphosate but then add spores, for example, the probiotics. So we started adding the probiotic spores and then we started to see a reversing of those negative changes, even though we were still adding in the glyphosate ridden cereal into it.

[Tina Anderson]

I'm taking my probiotic right now.

[Michael Bostic]

So we're like, well, so there's a way of combating some of these things that inevitably we're going to be exposed to.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay. You mentioned when you said that you took a kid that had no vaccines and no antibiotics.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Tina Anderson]

Why did you say no vaccines?

[Michael Bostic]

Now I want.

[Tina Anderson]

Give me the real. Give me the real. No one wants to talk about this. It's like laser tag and everyone wants to know, why did you say that?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. So not that that presumes that vaccines have a negative impact on your microbiome. We don't know that Actually, there isn't enough data to really understand whether or not they have an impact on the. On the microbiome. What we do know is that there's a certain percentage of children that will have an adverse event as a result of a vaccine.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

That's the part that people just need to accept and say, you know what? This happens. Let's research it, let's study it, let's figure out what kids may have this and what kids may not. Majority of kids won't, but some kids do. Right. And so as a result of potential adverse response to a vaccine, they may have gone on other medications and all that to overcome it. So some kids get hospitalized as a result of adverse response to vaccines. Right. And that in itself can have a damaging effect on the microbiome. So, trying to keep it as clean.

[Tina Anderson]

As possible, how would you decide what vaccines to give your child? Knowing everything that you know, like, what do you do when you, when you're researching each vaccine? What do you look for?

[Michael Bostic]

So I had two rules, two really important rules when I was thinking about vaccination with my kids. First one is I didn't want to give them any conjugate vaccines. Right. Conjugate vaccines are vaccines that are a number of diseases in one. Right. So like you think, think about the mmr, for example, right? Because that's measles, mumps, and rubella. Right. And what that's supposed to mimic is that they're getting a measles, mumps, and rubella infection at the same time. Right. And it depends on the kid and where they are at that stage in their life. How effective is it for their immune system to mount a great response to all three of those diseases at once? Right. So if anything, they can do that, but maybe break it up. Right. So do measles once, wait a few weeks, do mumps, do rubellinex. So separating the conjugate vaccines was one rule. The second one is if you can find versions of them that don't have the adjuvants, like the thimerosals or the, you know, metals that they may put in there, the reason they put some of those in there is to create an irritation and create an inflammatory response. That's part of how you recruit the immune system to the site of the vaccination. Right. But they can also have negative effects. And so we wanted ones that didn't have those preservatives or those adjuvants or those irritants in them.

[Tina Anderson]

Isn't there like 78 vaccines? And when we were little. There was like, seven. Did you decide when you decide to give your kids. I'm sure you're not like, we're giving all 78.

[Michael Bostic]

No, no, we. We were very minimalistic with it. What are the most dangerous conditions? Right? So, like, I grew up in India, so I had measles, I had chickenpox. I actually got all the actual dis diseases, and I have natural immunity as a result of it. Right. So there are some conditions that are really important to develop herd immunity around. So we stuck with those, and people should be talking to their pediatricians about what those are. But anything that we did not see as absolutely necessary, we avoided. For example, when the baby's born, getting a hep B shot, you know, I can't. That's not necessary. Like, where is the baby going to get hepatitis in the first few days of their life? Right.

[Tina Anderson]

It's protocol. It's important for people who are listening to hear that that you don't have to just go with the protocol.

[Michael Bostic]

Right.

[Tina Anderson]

You can come in with a birth plan. I've done this with both of my kids. I'll do this with the one I'm having. And you can tell them that I don't want the. The hep C shot.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, here's. Here's what I think, and I won't get super deep on this, but I think one of the issues that's going on around this topic, one, there are a lot of older people, I would even include myself in that, that grew up with a different schedule, with parents that had a different vaccine schedule, much less, like, I remember as a kid getting like, you know, five or six shots. And I was done. And I think. And I was talking to my dad about this, and I was explaining, and he's like, oh, what's the big deal? And I was like, well, there's a shitload of them now. There's a lot more than when we were kids. And even his experience, like, you know, you guys, too, like, we had very few compared to what it is now. The other part of this is there's people on the sidelines without kids, not throwing shade, but like, I will beat myself up when, before I had kids. I'm like, yeah, what's the big deal? Go get. Go get what you need to get. And you wouldn't think about it until you have a child of your own and you're met with these decisions and you see the schedule and then you realize how hard it is to have a conversation around the subject and how hard it is to actually Filter through and figure out who you can trust. And again, they say, like, oh, trust the science. Trust the doctor. There's Covid. One of the worst things it did was it shook up the trust that we have in the medical communities, in with the government. Like, I'm not the one that discovered that. I'm just voicing what a million people think, millions of people think. And so now you have hesitancy because we've seen people be not so truthful, and we've seen people get hurt. And then you have a child and you say, okay, this is a different schedule, and I'm not sure about the information. Even you just sharing that information with me now, I'm like, oh, I never thought about, you know, the breakup or looking at it that way. And I think, you know, a lot of parents, they sit down in an office, somebody says, take this, and you have to take this. And they have a code on and, you know, a credential. And, like, they don't even have the ability to say, wait a minute, let me get the information. So I think topics like this are important just to get people to start having the conversation and looking for the information.

[Tina Anderson]

I think that, too, we have to get to a place where we can ask questions. You're asking me to shove a needle with something that I. That 78 times into my kid. I have questions. I have a lot of questions. And I think with the doctors, my frustration is they're like, you have to get all of. And I'm just like, wait, I need to break this down.

[Karan Krishnan]

Per.

[Tina Anderson]

Like, I need to understand there's.

[Lauren Everts]

There's clinics that will kick you out of their offices if you don't follow the schedule. You know, when we lived in la, and again, like, I'm sure the person thought this is the. The right and moral thing to do, but, you know, when you're a new parent and you don't know, and the doctor's saying, if you don't do this, you're not getting, you know, you can't be in the practice. Like, there's. It's just a certain kind of pressure that is scary to go through, you know, as a new parent.

[Tina Anderson]

We left a practice because they told us that kids don't need the COVID vaccine.

[Michael Bostic]

Right.

[Tina Anderson]

Under five. And then six months later, we got an email that said, all kids under 5 need to come in to get the COVID vaccine. And we're like, no, this is out of integrity right now.

[Lauren Everts]

Look what's happened with. I mean, there's, you know, now they're starting to finally say, like, hey, this, some people did not get a great result and some people are maybe hurt from this, you know.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

But again, you know, somebody talked about this show and they're like, oh, it's woo, woo, pseudoscience. I'm like, no, it's, it's. Listen, maybe Lauren and I are out there on some things, but a lot of this is just wanting to know the answers to very specific questions. And I want real answers. I don't want just like, oh, well, it's been done this way, or everybody says, like, I want to know the. I want to get the information and deliver it to the audience that's either listening or watching so that they can make an informed decision. I personally don't have a dog in the fight when, in whichever case, whichever decisions people choose to make. But I think the people should have as much information as possible before they make those decisions.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. And there's one more tip that I would give with regards to vaccine. Right? So, so the two things, remember, is deconjugate, so don't use conjugate vaccines as much as you can. And then, and then try to get the ones without the preservatives or adjuvants and things like that. The third one is I very closely monitored the kids for three, four days before they would get a shot, and then a few days after. But especially before, even if they have a slightly elevated temperature, we wouldn't do it. If they had a little bit of sniffles, you know, like they had any signs of a cold, we wouldn't do it. Because that's when you really can overwhelm their system very quickly. If they get a vaccine while they have, while they have even a slight cold, that could be a significant risk. Right. So you want to make sure they're healthy as can be at that time. And then we did things like supporting their gut and their immune system and all that. Because if you're gonna get a vaccine, you want the vaccine to work, right. You want their system to mount an efficient response against the antigen that you're putting in. So you want their immune system, you want their gut, everything functioning properly. So we supported the gut and the immune system and all that quite a bit.

[Tina Anderson]

You also mentioned antibiotics. What's interesting about antibiotics to me is I found out that if you were given Pitocin when you give birth, that's a round of antibiotics for your baby. Is that correct?

[Michael Bostic]

It's not quite a round of antibiotics, no. I think the analogy that they're making there is that it is a chemical impact on your baby. Got it. That can hinder some of the microbial transfer from baby to mom during the birthing process. Right. But there isn't data that I've seen that it has that antimicrobial like effect effect on the baby. The most important microbial transfer occurs during the birthing process itself. Assuming you can do a natural birth. Now, a certain percentage of women have to do C section for various medical reasons. But even if you did a C section beyond that, you can of course undo some of that by taking vaginal swabs and swabbing the baby around the mouth and nose. But then breastfeeding and skin to skin contact with both mom and dad overcomes some of those negative effects.

[Tina Anderson]

We did delayed bathing for like, or bathing for like two weeks. Or Michael was like, I'm like, I don't give a if the baby smells like a vagina. I'm like, I don't want to give the baby a bath. For both my kids. I'm like.

[Lauren Everts]

We had, you know, like clips get pulled from the show and sometimes, obviously it's sometimes. I don't know if you saw this, but we, we had one like, where we talked about delayed bathing and people lost their mind.

[Tina Anderson]

They said that like there was like child service.

[Michael Bostic]

Oh my gosh.

[Lauren Everts]

Because, you know, it was in relation to, to what we're talking about now, which is the gut microbiome and keeping some of that and not just cleaning the baby off on day one because not necessary, but you should. The Internet went nuts on this stuff.

[Tina Anderson]

Do you believe in delayed bathing? And then if you do, is there. When can you start to give the baby a probiotic? Like, can you do it when they're a newborn?

[Michael Bostic]

So my kids started getting spore based probiotics at week two.

[Lauren Everts]

Wow.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. Week two. They got little dabble of it, little bit of powder and that you just put in the mouth or on the nipple before they attached.

[Tina Anderson]

Oh, that's smart.

[Michael Bostic]

Too easy to get them to do it. You know, it's just a little dabble and it, and it mimics what is supposed to happen in nature, right? Because in nature, when you, you know, for millions of years as humans were evolving or our ancestors were evolving, our. Our version of our ancestors are evolving. Babies were born in the dirt and they were born, you know, and they were putting things in their mouth. Right. So this is one of the interesting things about babies that I always thought is like, if you think about the weird behaviors that they have innate in them, they Sample the world with their mouth. Right? And as adults we lose that, or even as teenagers we lose that when we see something new. We don't pick it up and go put it in our mouth.

[Lauren Everts]

Speak for yourself.

[Michael Bostic]

But babies, that's the most natural thing. Everything goes in their mouth, right? So you imagine our ancestral babies laying on the ground just putting rocks and dried dung and everything in their mouth because they're sampling the earth and they're sampling the environment. They're getting those microbes into their system. And there are studies that show that environmental bacteria work with your natural microbes in your gut to build the gut associated lymphoid tissue, which is the largest immune organ in your body, unless there's roundup on it.

[Lauren Everts]

So if kids are out now and they're playing in the dirt and they fall down, they get sand in their mouth. It's like that shouldn't be something for parents to be overly concerned about.

[Michael Bostic]

Not at all concerned. They should be happy about it, given you're in a natural environment.

[Tina Anderson]

This is a. I tell Michael this all the time. I'm like, eh, they'll be fine. Michael's a little more like, clean around the baby. Yeah. I'm a little more like, eh.

[Michael Bostic]

Well, let me give you a study that actually followed this, right? They followed thousands of moms. They looked at two different groups of moms, right? So group one are moms. When the baby drops their pacifier, they pick it up and they clean it with a wipe and then they give it back to the baby. Group number two were moms that pick it up, clean it with their own mouth and put it back in the baby. And they found that the moms that cleaned it with their own mouths had babies with much lower incidence rate of allergies.

[Tina Anderson]

What about the mom that just wipes it on the jacket and shoves it back in?

[Michael Bostic]

Even better. Right, but. So there's something about mom's saliva that also has immune components to it as a baby.

[Tina Anderson]

So I should have hawk TUA on it.

[Michael Bostic]

It's a hot tub we all need.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so. So really there's no like any age you can start with the spores.

[Michael Bostic]

With the spores, yes.

[Tina Anderson]

And you just. What I would do, I would take a capsule and I would put it on my hand when I have a newborn and then I can sprinkle it in their bottle or put it on my nipple.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yep, yep, that's it.

[Michael Bostic]

That's it.

[Tina Anderson]

Just a little sprinkle of it?

[Michael Bostic]

Yep, just a little sprinkle. Just with the tip of your finger.

[Tina Anderson]

And after two weeks, you waited?

[Michael Bostic]

Yes, we did, because we wanted to make sure that there were no other complications of the child's perfectly healthy and normal and eating and pooping properly, as they should. Right. And so at that point, we're like, okay, great. Now, my son was starting to develop allergy like, symptoms early on because he was C sectioned. He was breached the whole time. Right. So he had to be born C section. And we could already tell that he was kind of red and sniffly insensitive to things in the beginning. So that was part of why we waited for a few weeks. But then once we started giving him the spores, he did. Did amazingly well.

[Tina Anderson]

So what are other weird. Not weird, cool, sciency microbiomey things that you do for your kids that maybe, like, normal people don't know?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, well. So number one, you guys may not. I don't know if I've spoken about this before, but I really encourage or at least did not discourage my kids from eating their boogers.

[Tina Anderson]

Oh, right.

[Michael Bostic]

Wow.

[Tina Anderson]

Towns will be thrilled.

[Michael Bostic]

Boogers are like, essentially like environmental vaccines scenes. Right. So this is another one of those behaviors I tend to observe in kids.

[Tina Anderson]

That'S gonna go viral.

[Karan Krishnan]

This was a good child protective service.

[Lauren Everts]

I thought the no baby, let's hear.

[Tina Anderson]

About eating our boogers. We haven't talked about this on the show.

[Michael Bostic]

Yes.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

So this is important. So. And this is where I started thinking about it. Right. So when my son was about three or four, we were at the playground. He's hanging out and talking to a bunch of kids. And the conversation comes up, they all are talking about how they eat their boogers. And I was thinking to myself, and I was like, I totally ate my boogers when I was a kid. And then you stop at a given point. Right. Almost naturally, in part because society tells you not to. But just remember, if you go back in your mind, you remember pulling this nasty thing out of your nose, and for some reason, your instinct is to eat it.

[Tina Anderson]

I didn't eat my boogers. I hate to. I didn't eat my boogers.

[Michael Bostic]

You didn't? Are you sure?

[Tina Anderson]

I'm not saying I didn't pick my nose. I did not eat my boogers. Did you?

[Lauren Everts]

I was not a booger eater. I don't think, you know, I think again, start eating them.

[Michael Bostic]

It's never too late.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. I maybe lean on more of, like, maybe the Japanese side of me. The cleanliness. My grandmother would have just whacked me in the head with a spoon, probably.

[Michael Bostic]

So then you have to Wonder why is there a tendency to eat these things right now? This happens naturally in your body whether you want to or not. So when you breathe in things, you're going to capture allergens and microbes and all that in your. Your respiratory tract. Right. And they get trapped by mucus. The mucus adds immune factors to it, antibodies and so on. And then we have something called a mucociliary elevator. Whether you do it or not, voluntarily, things are all moved up from your lungs and your upper respiratory tract and they drop into your throat. So you do effectively swallow your boogers naturally, whether you know it or not. Now, but kids do it deliberately. When they pull it out and they consume it, it is basically antigens. So viruses, bacteria, allergens, and all that that are covered with immune factors that they're sending into their gut, which is their largest sampling site for their immune system. And their immune system gets to learn what is in their environment that they need to build protection against. Right. So it's essentially a way of the immune system reading the natural environment around you.

[Tina Anderson]

So take your just Thrive probiotic and then stick your finger in your nose and get a nice booger and eat it for dinner.

[Karan Krishnan]

I didn't say that.

[Tina Anderson]

My son will be thrilled. His finger is stuck in his nose. I'm like, it makes a ton of.

[Lauren Everts]

Sense when you explain that. It's basically, this is the body's best way to understand the environment.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And then guard against things that are harmful.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. Because if you think about it, our immune sampling tissue, that's the part of the immune system that learns what is in the environment. Right. Because our immune system is designed to adapt to whatever environment you go into. The antigens, and the dangers are different. Right. But the immune system doesn't have an outward facing component. And so it's taking cues from our eyes, things that go into our eyes and drain into our throats, our mouth, our nose, things that may even go through your skin. To learn the environment, Michael's gonna have.

[Tina Anderson]

To try to eat something else. If you're not careful, you're getting real close to something you gotta eat.

[Lauren Everts]

Is this why? So when I first moved to Austin, because we didn't. Obviously, we didn't live here forever. In 2020, the first time I experienced, like, cedar allergies, I thought I was done for. I was like. I was like, I was gonna write my will, and I was like, it's finished. And then after about a year, like, I don't get it at all. Then spring came one spring, and there Was the flowers were blooming and I got nailed again. But then again, now I don't get anything. And we just had a bunch of friends and family move here and they're starting to experience it. Is that because they're not used to this environment and their body has to build the defense of being in this new environment?

[Michael Bostic]

Yes, the defense and the tolerance. So there's two parts of the immune system, right? The first part of the immune system is a very inflammatory response. And this is especially true in adults when you go into new environments because that's a faster acting part of the immune system. So you go in, you breathe in a new allergen like cedar. You mentioned that you're never used to. Your innate immune system goes, I don't know what the hell this is. I'm gonna attack it. And you're getting all the histamine response and all that, right? Then if your gut is healthy. So this is a good indication that your gut and your immune system's pretty healthy. Your gut and your immune system takes over and goes, let us examine this new thing and figure out, is it something we need to constantly attack or is it something we build tolerance to? And then your immune system decided, because of the support of your gut, that we should build tolerance to it. So now you can experience it, but your immune system just throws some igg antibodies to it and it doesn't release all the histamines and all that. Right?

[Lauren Everts]

So, and I just want to keep up with you here. Sometimes when you talk, I have to really think, if someone continues to get bombarded with the histamine response and the inflammation, could that also be a reverse indication that the gut is not healthy enough to develop the immune response? So then you have to focus on healing the gut.

[Michael Bostic]

That's absolutely correct. Yeah. Because to shuttle the immune system from that first inflammatory response to the tolerance response. So that's called oral tolerance. That shuttling requires a healthy microbiome. It's the microbiome that actually does that for you. It's super interesting because your immune system is like an army that has all of the equipment, it has the guns and tanks and bombs, but it has no general. So it has like no understanding of what is friend and what is foe. So it just attacks everything, right? And then the microbiome actually tells the immune system, hey, you don't need to attack that. You need to build tolerance against that. That's food. You don't need to attack that and so on, right? This is why, when you lose your gut health and Your microbiome goes disarrayed, we become food sensitive, we develop allergies, we develop autoimmune conditions. Autoimmune conditions are merely your body losing tolerance to your own tissue. Right. So it's just attacking everything.

[Lauren Everts]

So, okay, last thing. And then I know Lauren wants to jump to the next thing. If you know you're going into allergy season, if you live out in a place like Austin, are you better off to start maybe like doubling the dose of your probiotically? Could you, could you do that knowing you need to build a greater defense, or would you just stick with a normal dose of just thrive?

[Michael Bostic]

You could. I do that, especially when I try travel, knowing that my body is going to probably encounter new antigens that I'm not used to. I double it when I travel. Now, if you're someone that does get the seasonal allergies and it does, it is heightened at certain times a year, you can absolutely build up to that by doubling the dose and even paying more attention to your microbiome and your diet and so on.

[Lauren Everts]

And just to clarify, and I know we've talked about this so many times, but you can't, like, overdo. Yeah. The just right probiotic, you can just.

[Karan Krishnan]

These were the same strains our ancestors used to get from the environment. Every day they'd eat roots and tubers off the land and they'd get these same bacteria that are the same type of bacteria that are in just thrive.

[Tina Anderson]

I remember when I was like 21, I started getting allergies and I started taking an allergy pill every single day to combat the allergies. And then I had this healer tell me, stop the allergy pill. The allergies will go away. And I stopped it. And I was miserable for two weeks and then they went away. So what you're saying is my immune system chose to flush out the allergies after two weeks.

[Michael Bostic]

Yep.

[Tina Anderson]

Without the pill.

[Michael Bostic]

That's exactly right. So here's what happened in that case. Right. So you actually bring up a really interesting case. So the allergic response is a part of your immune system called the innate immune system that's responding to what it thinks is a danger. And so it's trying to throw everything at it. It's throwing histamine and leukotrienes. These are compounds that give you the sniffles and all of the allergy like, symptoms. Now what your body needs to do is do that for a period of time until it learns to build tolerance. Now, if you stop that response by taking the antihistamines and all the allergy meds, you're effectively stopping step one of building the tolerance. Right? So then you'll just keep ending up hitting a wall on that. Step one, you'll get some symptoms. You stop it, the allergic process stops rather than running through it and getting to that tolerance.

[Lauren Everts]

So you just have to be miserable for a little period of time.

[Michael Bostic]

You just have to be miserable, assuming your gut is, of course, healthy, to shuttle you to that next phase. Right? That's the key part.

[Lauren Everts]

Because if it's not healthy, you'll just be miserable for as long as the allergies around.

[Tina Anderson]

What about parents with children, children that have allergies? I hear a lot that children have egg allergies or gluten or they're lactose intolerant or they're really sensitive.

[Lauren Everts]

What, nut allergies?

[Tina Anderson]

Now, a lot of nut allergies. We see that everywhere. Why is this happening more and more and more? And what is the root cause of it?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, there are two really important drivers of this. Number one is the skin, and number two is the gut. Right. And the skin is a surprising part of it. So let's talk about the gut first. So the. So the. The gut microbiome is critical in tutoring and teaching the immune system how to function. Right. And developing the. The tolerance to things in your environment that aren't harmful. So our kids are being born C section. They're eating crappy food. They're not getting enough fiber. They're taking lots of courses of antibiotics. All of those things decimate the gut microbiome, which then increase your risk for developing allergies because your gut and your immune system are not communicating. Right. So that's one reason. The second reason is the skin. Now, one of the things you guys have done with the delaying the bathing, that's a good first step in ensuring that their skin is healthy.

[Tina Anderson]

See, my right, you hear that?

[Michael Bostic]

The microbes. So because the skin microbiome china it up. Exactly. Vaginal juices all day long, Right? So they're gonna pull that clip for sure. It's time to bottle it. Bottle that in boogers and we're good.

[Tina Anderson]

Start a brand vagina.

[Michael Bostic]

Exactly.

[Tina Anderson]

I love it. Just boogers.

[Michael Bostic]

Just boogers. Go ahead. So here's what's happening with the skin. So just like in our gut, our gut microbiome is getting decimated. Our skin microbiome is getting decimated too, because, of course, we're putting lotions and things on our babies that have parabens and phthalates and all of these Things on it that are horrific for the skin microbiome. So kids and babies are developing eczema and dermatitis at an alarming rate. Right? Here's the crazy thing. The skin is a barrier. When you develop eczema and dermatitis, you lose the barrier function of the skin. So peanut antigens, for example, can travel through the skin and enter the body. And so this is something called the atopic march, right. Which starts with atopic dermatitis, which is the eczema, psoriasis, and those kind of things. And then the atopic march is where allergens make their way through the skin into circulation. So they're not going through the normal digestive route, which is where you build tolerance in the gut, right? So they're going right into this, the circulation. And your immune system is going haywire because it's like, what is this stuff coming through the skin? Skin, Right. It's not normal for these antigens to enter to the skin because the skin is a barrier. But you lose the barrier function. It's coming through the skin, your skin. Your immune system mounts a horrific response against it. Now you have severe allergies against these things. So when you combine the dysfunctional gut and dysfunctional skin microbiome, kids are screwed. Right. This is why we have an epidemic of asthma, allergies and atopic dermatitis. Yes.

[Tina Anderson]

So say someone has a child with like bumps on their arms, what do you tell them to do?

[Michael Bostic]

So number one, clean up their personal care products, right? So they, they really need to be careful of what they're putting on their kids skin. So the types of soaps they use, the types of lotions in the bath.

[Tina Anderson]

I always tell Michael, you have to wash this. The, like, sometimes you like take them out of the bath. Like y. You have to wash the bath. Like the soap, Soap off the kids better be careful.

[Lauren Everts]

You're gonna be on bath time, dude.

[Michael Bostic]

You do have to get the soap off the kids, right?

[Lauren Everts]

I get the soap off. I take the thing, I get the fresh water.

[Tina Anderson]

Because before me, who knows what you were doing?

[Lauren Everts]

No, I, I have a whole thing.

[Tina Anderson]

No. Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

I got a system now.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay, go ahead.

[Michael Bostic]

Well, okay. And then also, you don't always need soap for the kids either, Right? So if they've been playing in the.

[Karan Krishnan]

Dark, it's like freaking out, right?

[Michael Bostic]

They're playing in the dirt. Yeah. You can, you can actually just rinse them off in the shower or warm water and they're good to go.

[Tina Anderson]

They're fine.

[Michael Bostic]

So we don't need to sterilize their skin. Right. So that's number one. Number two, working on their gut. So the gut skin axis plays a very important role for what your skin microbiome looks like, based on what your gut microbiome looks like. So there's a deep connection. So a probiotic like the just thrive can help a lot. And then if your skin, if your kid's skin is actually really bad and there's bumps and irritation, you can actually test, take spores out of the capsule, mix it in a, in a nice lotion and actually apply it to the skin as well.

[Lauren Everts]

Ooh, that's somebody wants to do. People are going to want to know how to do the lotion. What do you do to make a lotion?

[Tina Anderson]

What do you mean? You just take it and open it?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, I would just take a handful of lotion, you pull apart the capsule, take a little bit of pinch of the powder, mix it into that lotion and just apply it.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, just any like a baby lotion.

[Tina Anderson]

But I think like a good brand of lotion is really important. There's a brand called K Purpose, it's a small business and she does non toxic products. It's K, P R E. Like that's a good one I think to mix it in with the one we use. Yeah, that's the one we use.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't even know. I just use what's in the drawer.

[Tina Anderson]

You have to literally be. So you have to be like a scientist when it comes to these products because they lie.

[Michael Bostic]

They do.

[Tina Anderson]

About what's actually in them. They'll write natural ingredients. Like you have to like be a psycho.

[Lauren Everts]

Because a follow up question to that. We've been spending a lot of time on kids, but I imagine if you can heal a kid's gut earlier, it's much easier than trying to heal a grown adult's gut.

[Michael Bostic]

Yes.

[Lauren Everts]

We have a lot of friends who because of our relationship to this show come to us and say like, hey, I got, you know, they're our age, they got gut issues. Maybe they drinking a little too much. You know who I'm talking to. But you know, if you're, if you're talking to somebody that's an adult and they feel like their gut is just destroyed outside of saying get on the. What's the protocol you put that individual on? They're just like, if they're, you know, not for kids, for adults.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. I've been teaching kind of a gut microbiome course to consumers. And so I break it down to what I call my like the five pillars. And you have to do something in each of these pillars in order for your gut to really reverse. Right. Especially the adults that have gone through years of just decimating their gut. So the first one is food. So what are you feeding your gut? You want to diversify your diet as much as possible. So you want to get as many polyphenols, fibers, lean meats, all of that stuff into your system. Fiber especially. Right. Fiber. You want 30, 40, 50 grams of fiber a day.

[Tina Anderson]

Give us examples of your favorite fibers.

[Michael Bostic]

So I use from a supplement perspective, I use just psyllium state psyllium husk. But if not, I eat a lot of things like plantains, I eat sweet potatoes. I use organic oats, nuts and seeds. I eat a lot of nuts and seeds throughout the day. And then people should just google soluble fiber, insoluble fiber and get a mix of both. Right. So there's a lot of options out there.

[Tina Anderson]

Do you do the husk in a pill or do you take it in a powder?

[Michael Bostic]

I take a powder, the organic India clean powder. It's a terrible experience. It's not great tasting or anything, but it's just so good for you. Right.

[Tina Anderson]

Do you froth it up or you just put it in water? What do you do?

[Michael Bostic]

Just put it in water and raw dog it down with eight ounces of water? Yeah, like two heaping tablespoons.

[Tina Anderson]

How do you give that to your children or do you not give that one?

[Michael Bostic]

I don't give that particular one to my kids. I use a fiber, I think called sun fiber, which is a fruit based fiber. So it's got polyphenols and fiber in it, it solubilizes better and it goes really well in smoothies. So for them, they get it through smoothies.

[Tina Anderson]

You guys should launch a fiber project.

[Karan Krishnan]

Funny, we were just talking about that.

[Michael Bostic]

We were talking about that because here's the thing. Fiber is probably the most well researched macronutrient there is. There was a study that, that came out about three years ago that involves a million subjects. Right. And they showed for every 10 grams of fiber you add to your daily diet, you reduce your all cause mortality by 10%.

[Lauren Everts]

Wow.

[Tina Anderson]

It's also fiber cancels out carbs, sugar. So if there's 20 grams of carbs. Right. It's actually. And there's. I thought it was carbs.

[Michael Bostic]

Simple carbs. Yes. Non fibrous carbs. Yes.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay, so if there's 20 grams of carbs in a. And I'm just making this up in a protein bar, but there's 10 grams of fiber, isn't it? 10 grams of, of carbs, is that right?

[Michael Bostic]

It is, yeah. What we call the postprandial insulin response. Right. So fiber slows down the digestion and it slows down the digestibility of the simple carbs.

[Tina Anderson]

I haven't seen you eat a plantain in a while, Michael.

[Lauren Everts]

I eat a lot of kiwis. Those, those have good fiber.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, the fiber and the kiwis.

[Lauren Everts]

Spinach.

[Michael Bostic]

Spinach, yep.

[Karan Krishnan]

A kiwi every single day.

[Michael Bostic]

Spinach. Yep. So that's pillar number one is feeding the microbiome high diversity, high fiber. Pillar number two is what you don't expose your microbiome to and what you do expose your microbiome to. Right. So you want to really try to clean up your personal care products in your home. So reducing the use of chlorine based cleaners and things with antimicrobials and all that, and then getting outside and getting some natural dirt like exposure on a regular basis. Pillar number three, stress management, which is a hard thing for most people, but you can use just calm, you can use meditation and all that because stress, stress is the number one driver of dysbiosis in the gut, right. And it's the number one cause of mortality worldwide. Stresses and the resulting dysbiosis that it creates. Number four is exercise. And exercise in particular. Lifting. Right. So a lot of people don't quite know this, but one of the benefits of lifting, of contracting your muscles underweight is the muscles release something called myokines. Myokines are these chemical messengers that make their way to your gut, dramatically increase the diversity of your gut microbiome, seal up the gut lining and reduce inflammation. So muscle contraction is actually really good for your gut microbiome. And the last thing is supplementation. We all need a probiotic, prebiotic bitter compound because those we just lived in too toxic of a world to not help the microbiome that way.

[Lauren Everts]

So let's talk about what you guys are doing with the bitters. Tina? I don't know. I mean, we went to dinner the last time you were in town. I don't think you had the bitters then.

[Karan Krishnan]

No.

[Tina Anderson]

Tell us about the bitters.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah, we just launched it about a couple weeks ago. Really excited. Bitters. You know, they're natural plant compounds that have been used for centuries as a digestive aid. And natural, you know, and they just. I love bitters because they've stood the test of time, you know, they have. It's the way we evolve. Just like the Spore based probiotic strains. We evolved with these strains. We evolved eating them on a regular basis. And same thing with bitters. We need bitters on a regular basis because we evolved that that way. We have thousands of bitter receptor sites throughout our entire body. And we always think of like bitter as being in our tongue. But in fact, bitters are throughout our entire body. And we have bitter receptors in our immune system, in our gut, in our lungs, our heart. I mean, all throughout our body. And they're just, it's something that we need. And it was really important to us to have a comprehensive formula for our customers.

[Tina Anderson]

And how do you take action?

[Karan Krishnan]

You just take about 10 to 15 minutes before a meal.

[Tina Anderson]

So you just drop it or you take.

[Karan Krishnan]

Oh, no. So that's the other exciting thing is it's not a tincture, it's actually a capsule. And that was really important to us because of course the tinctures have alcohol in them and some people don't want to take alcohol or they don't tolerate alcohol. Well, also they don't have that bitter taste. I mean, most people don't take the tinctures of bitter because of the bitter, bitter taste. That's very frustrating.

[Lauren Everts]

I was going to say, like, when I, when you, when we first started talking about bitters, before we started, I was like, like angostura. Because whenever I, whenever I have a stomachache, whenever I get the hiccups, like that's what I do. But there's alcohol in it. So obviously you can't do that. Okay.

[Tina Anderson]

You also used to make cocktails for me with that.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, you still do. Listen, if you want to make some proper cocktails.

[Tina Anderson]

I remember my grandma would always do this before she would eat a meal because it would help with her digestion. And then we had Dr. Daryl on who's Fabulous and he said, it's so important, Lauren, to take a digestion before you eat. 30 minutes. So this is all adding up to me. So what is the difference between someone who takes bitters before they eat and someone who does not?

[Karan Krishnan]

Well, a lot of people who take bitters will have less indigestion, they'll have less heartburn, those types of things. We know that. Yeah, I mean, we know that the digestive bitters are increasing stomach acid. See, that's one of the biggest problems. Most people are taking all of these antacids to reduce stomach acid.

[Tina Anderson]

I just, that's what I did last night.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yeah. And I mean, our, our, our stomach acid is there to protect us. It's there to protect and, and support our microbiome. So we are, you know, as a society, almost addicted to the, addicted to these antacids. And what these bitters are doing are actually increasing our stomach acid as a protective mechanism. It's also increasing the production of short chain fatty acids. It's increasing our own body's GLP1 production. So helping with satiety and helping us, you know, helping us with appetite regulation. And we know that it's helping us curb cravings, particularly sugar cravings. So the GLP1, you know, we've naturally produced GLP1s on our own already. And so digestive bitters are helping produce the GLP1s.

[Tina Anderson]

So instead of waiting to get the heartburn and fix it with an, with an anti acid, is that how you say it? Antacid, Like I did last night, you would do the digestive before, and that's gonna prevent the heartburn from even happening. Happening.

[Michael Bostic]

That's right, yeah. And you know, and that's absolutely right. And to help you digest the food that you're actually eating, right? So there's a really interesting evolutionary connection with bitters, right? So if you think about all of these really important digestive functions that are regulated by something called bitter receptors, you go, why did our body develop these receptors for bitter compounds to conduct really important functions? And the functions are releasing hydrochloric acid, you know, moving the food through the bowels, releasing bile, releasing pancreatic enzymes and digestive juices, you know, upregulating satiety signals, upregulating fat, burn signals, all of these things. Why did we outsource that to bitter compounds? Right? And as it turns out, there's some really cool evolutionary biology behind this. So, number one, it indicates that humans were likely omnivores. We ate all kinds of things throughout our, our course of evolution. We ate lots of plants and roots and tubers and seeds and nuts and all that. Most of those things contain components that are bitter within them. Now there's other dangerous things that are bitter as well. So within certain plants there can be toxins that are bitter. And so we have a lot of bitter receptors on our tongue to try to warn us against those particular noxious substances, right? So when you eat something and it's really astringent on your tongue, you go, oh, I'm not going to eat that, right? So you spit it out. So that's one of the reasons for the bitter receptors in the tongue. Now if you eat plants and things like that that are coming in, your body is telling you to slow down digestion, because plants require longer time for digestion, so it's slowing down the motility and slowing down the digestive process. So the bitters are signaling to your digestive tract to do that. And they increase HCl, hydrochloric acid, they increase enzymes so that you could properly break down these substances. Right? And at the end of the day, the other interesting evolutionary significance is during times of scarcity, right? Imagine people who lived in the northern hemisphere. There weren't many animals to hunt and things like that. So they gathered and they ate and forged a lot of berries and things like that. These bitter compounds in plants actually provided higher degree of satiety because they bound the bitter receptors in your intestines that made you feel more full. And then they also sent signals to the brain to increase serotonin, so you felt happier. So through the course of human evolution, when they went through these periods of scarcity, they could be starving and really depressed. Or because we developed these bitter receptors, you could actually feel more satiated and feel happier. So that's another effect of bitters. If you're taking them before your digestion and you'll end up before you eat, you'll actually end up eating less and you'll feel better about what you ate as well.

[Tina Anderson]

Wow. How innovative.

[Karan Krishnan]

I know, and I think it's interesting because the probiotic is largely responsible for the large bowel. I mean, it touches every part of the intestinal tract. But the bitters are focusing on the stomach, which is largely overlooked and overworked, for that matter, and the small intestine as well. So you kind of think of the probiotic is handling the large bowel and the bitters as handling the small intestine and the stomach.

[Tina Anderson]

And you guys gave us a code. It says for a limited time, you guys can save 20 off on your first bottle of digestive bitters and probiotics. You guys can just go to just thrive health.com and use promo code skinny. The bitters almost sound a little ozempicy in a natural way.

[Karan Krishnan]

In a much more natural way, you.

[Michael Bostic]

Know, and that's funny, right? Because GLP1 peptides and agonists are getting so much attention, and what they are really doing is taking advantage of a natural system that we've developed in response to eating bitters for thousands of years, right? The bitters. So there's these cells in your intestine called L cells. L cells make the GLP1 compound that binds the receptor, which is what the peptides, the prescription peptides, are Trying to do. Right. So we're naturally adapte that system to provide satiety and improve blood sugar regulation. All you have to do is really take bitters with your food, like our ancestors did for most of their meals. We just stopped doing that.

[Tina Anderson]

What is your opinion on GLP1s? I have to ask you, because you're the microbiologist.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. So there's a couple of thoughts I have on it. Number one, I think there's a group of people that could really benefit from it. Right. So if you're morbidly obese and your metabolic syndrome symptoms and comorbidities are so bad, you probably need to lose weight in that very aggressive manner and it could save your life. So for those individuals, I think there's a space for it. For people who are trying to lose £20, £25, I think it can be incredibly disruptive to their system. Right. And the risks are too high. So just understanding how this works. Right, so natural GLP1 compounds are designed to hop on the receptor that they bind to, and they hop on and they hop off in 20, 25 minutes. Right. That's how the natural system's supposed to work. The reason why you can take these shots once a week is because they've designed the agonist to sit on the receptor for seven days.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Bostic]

Right. So something natural that is supposed to happen in a few minutes, they're prolonging it to seven days. That in itself scares the shit out of me about these things. Right.

[Tina Anderson]

Why does it? What are the risks from that?

[Michael Bostic]

So the risk from that is that you are prolonging an effect that your body has naturally designed to be a quick effect, because you don't want the effect of GLP1 happening 24 hours a day, seven days in a week. Right. Because it'll cause you to, number one, not eat enough. So a lot of the people I know that have used it, that are using it to lose 25, 30 pounds, they basically stop eating, Right. And they're kind of wasting away in many ways. Right. And as a result of that, your blood sugar regulation can go haywire, your pancreas can undergo a lot of inflammation and stress. So there's an association with pancreatitis for people. And then now we're seeing that, you know, there's immune dysregulations and so on, because it's such an unnatural way of using that so system. Right. So there's a natural way of using it through. Through food and diet. And bitters and berberine, for example, Right. But then the, the drug version of it is so unnatural in how it functions that for the typical person it can probably be or it will be more than likely a negative effect.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, my. You know, I, again, like, I think to your point earlier, like there's a place for it. But what I just tell people as it comes up in our private life, I was like, if you're fighting for that extra 20, even £25, I. It's not easy. But there are natural ways over time to do it. And you spoke about stress earlier. If you start doing the things required to lose that weight in a natural way, you will help manage your stress. You will feel better. You'll feel like you've made it like a real accomplishment. Like there's so many benefits to going that route, whether it's eating better, weightlifting, all the things that we know to do and know how to do, if we pay attention and get the information. And so for me, it's just like it's such a better long term effect to go that route as opposed to just saying, I'm gonna take this shot and then maybe end up with a result that I'm not happy with in the long run.

[Tina Anderson]

Before you guys go, can you each share your favorite gut friendly meme meal?

[Karan Krishnan]

My gut friendly meal.

[Tina Anderson]

I'm assuming you're gonna take your bitters before it.

[Karan Krishnan]

Yes. Gosh. I'm trying to think of what I, I feel like I eat so well. I. It's mostly a diverse group. So I'll have my. I have my kiwi always. Every before every. My first meal of the day. I always have kiwi. I love to eat eggs. I eat a lot of. I always have arugula. I eat a lot of beans too.

[Tina Anderson]

You also do a smoothie that you told me that you put your just thrive capsule in. Which I do for my kids. Michael and I will make a smoothie and open the capsule.

[Lauren Everts]

Capsule.

[Karan Krishnan]

I don't think it was me. I don't do smoothies.

[Tina Anderson]

It wasn't it?

[Karan Krishnan]

No, I don't think it was me.

[Tina Anderson]

I thought it was you. On an episode, someone came on and said they opened their capsule.

[Karan Krishnan]

It was probably Quran. It was probably Quran. Maybe it was just Karan does smoothies.

[Michael Bostic]

For the kids to make it easier for them. And they love making it themselves. Right. So we have a bunch of fruit that we froze. It cut up and froze. Sitting in the freezer. So they just go in there and they put some yogurt in, they put some fruit and then they know to open the capsule and Put the capsule in the smoothie and they mix it up and do that.

[Lauren Everts]

Just put one in there.

[Michael Bostic]

Just one in there? Yep. For them, it's perfect. One a day is perfect. When we travel or they have the sniffles or they're getting flu or something like that, I bump it up. I give them one twice a day or sometimes twi. Two at one time.

[Tina Anderson]

So you don't do the gummy. You do the. You open it.

[Michael Bostic]

I open it, yeah.

[Tina Anderson]

My kids are too little to take a pill, but I'll do it in their smoothie. But they love the gummy.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, the gummies taste good. That's the big benefit of it. Right. So my favorite gut friendly probiotic. Friendly, sorry, microbiome. Friendly meal would involve starting with the digestive bitters and then I take the probiotic with the first bite of food as well. Right. So that is ritual to me. I also don't drink a lot of water with the meal. I drink a minimal amount of water. Right. So I don't want to fill myself too much with liquid. And then I love lean meats. So lean fish and really hearty meats sometimes. So I almost have. I'll often have two different protein sources in my meals. So I'll have like a fish and a lamb or a fish and a steak of some sort and then a number of like healthy grains. Like I love whole quinoa beans, arugula. And then I always sprinkle my meal with nuts and seeds. Almost always just add like a bunch of sunflower seeds or nuts or cashews and things like that.

[Lauren Everts]

That's the other thing Lauren and I talk about. It's a very Western thing, I believe, to have these, these ice cold drinks with the meal.

[Tina Anderson]

I got yelled at.

[Lauren Everts]

And it's funny because I mentioned like, I had. She passed. But I had this Japanese grandmother and she taught me from a young age, like, you don't drink ice cold drinks, and then during the meal, you don't really even touch the drink until you're done with the meal.

[Tina Anderson]

I had a Korean doctor come to our hotel room last time I was sick and he was like, you do not drink.

[Lauren Everts]

But I want. But the reason I bring this up is I wanted you to because you said you don't have. Have the water with them. Can you explain scientifically why that there could be a benefit of doing that?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. So number one, when the first place that your food goes after you chew it is in your stomach, right. And you really want it to mix with the hydrochloric Acid water is a buffering agent. So if you drink a bunch of water with it, you're actually neutralizing the effect of the acid. So you screw up the first step in digestion. Now, the presence of the hydrochloric acid also then causes the rest of your digestive system to prepare for the food coming in by releasing things like pepsin and pancreatic enzymes and so on. So you could interfere with those signals as well if you're drinking a bunch of water along with it. And then finally, once it gets into the small bowel, you want some moisture in there, but you want the microbes or the enzymes. Sorry. To have access to the food. If you drink a lot of liquid with it, you dilute the enzymes quite a bit. Right. And then finally, in the large bowel, once the food has gone down there, air. That's when you send the water down. So a couple hours after your meal, you send some water down. The large bowel will utilize the water as much as it needs and then absorb what you need for hydration through the colon. Right. And the rest of it will end up coming out through excretion.

[Lauren Everts]

So this. So I was, like, explaining to people, or especially to Lauren, why I don't. I don't like to drink water during the meal. Like, that's the.

[Tina Anderson]

I didn't know Michael thinks he was doing a TED Talk. It was just to me.

[Lauren Everts]

But the point is because I. I see people and they have these, like, huge one.

[Tina Anderson]

And I also feel like huge jug with all this stuff and it's ice cold.

[Lauren Everts]

And I just. To your point, like, I. To me, naturally, I feel much better when I eat without the beverage.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

And then have it.

[Tina Anderson]

I'm gonna go take my bitters and eat my boogers. You guys go to just thrive health.com use promo code skinny. You could save 20% off. Thank you both for coming on. You're both welcome back anytime. It's always an interesting conversation.

[Karan Krishnan]

Thanks for.

[Tina Anderson]

Where can everyone find both of you to say hello?

[Karan Krishnan]

And the brand just thrive health.com is the best place. And on Instagram, you go to Just Thrive Health also.

[Tina Anderson]

Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

Yep. And then I have an Instagram page called Kieran Biome K I R A N B I O M E where you'll find lots of fun facts and figures and tips.

[Tina Anderson]

I'm sure you never know what you're gonna get with you. Thank you guys for coming on the show.

[Michael Bostic]

Thank you.