Former Navy SEAL Andrew "Sully" Sullivan: Fixing America’s Broken Safety System, Protecting Our Children, & Protecting Yourself

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast Episode: Former Navy SEAL Andrew "Sully" Sullivan: Fixing America’s Broken Safety System, Protecting Our Children, & Protecting Yourself
Release Date: December 16, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick engage in an in-depth conversation with Andrew "Sully" Sullivan, a medically retired Navy SEAL with nearly two decades of service. The discussion delves into critical topics surrounding personal and community safety, situational awareness, and the pressing need for improved training within law enforcement to protect children and citizens.

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Andrew Sullivan's Background and Military Career

Andrew Sullivan provides a comprehensive overview of his journey from a pro-military upbringing in Massachusetts to his service in the U.S. Navy SEALs. He shares the pivotal moment that led him to military life:

Andrew Sullivan [04:16]: "I grew up in Massachusetts... the patriotism and that, I don't want to say glorified, but, man, as a little kid seeing that, it made me kind of fall in love with the military."

Sully details his commitment post-September 11, 2001, which transformed his initial four-year service into an 18-year career:

Andrew Sullivan [05:56]: "It turned into a career. I don't think there's anything else I could have done in life that would have given me the fulfillment..."

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Becoming a Navy SEAL: Challenges and Attributes

The conversation explores the rigorous process of becoming a Navy SEAL, highlighting the blend of physical and mental endurance required:

Andrew Sullivan [07:30]: "BUDS is mental and it is, and there's a physical attribute to it as well... you can't do it for the entire time, the eight months that it takes to make it through."

He emphasizes the unpredictability of success in SEAL training, noting:

Andrew Sullivan [08:48]: "If I could put my finger on one attribute... it's impossible because there's such a broad variety of people that end up going to that training."

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Transition to Community First Project (C1P)

Upon retiring, Sully founded the nonprofit Community First Project with a mission to enhance law enforcement training for active shooter situations:

Andrew Sullivan [18:05]: "When I retired in 2020, I started a for-profit company... But I realized law enforcement couldn't afford it."

The shift to a nonprofit model was driven by the necessity to provide free, high-quality training to police departments nationwide, addressing a critical gap in current law enforcement preparedness.

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Situational Awareness and Personal Safety

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the importance of situational awareness for both parents and children:

Andrew Sullivan [29:50]: "You're trying to recognize a problem before it happens... pay attention to what's going on around you."

Lauryn adds her observations on public disengagement:

Lauren Everts [28:33]: "People walk around like zombies with their heads down or in their phones, just completely unaware."

Sully underscores the necessity of being alert to prevent becoming vulnerable targets:

Andrew Sullivan [30:37]: "Too many people are hyper-focused on what their individual task is... that they're not paying attention to the surroundings."

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Active Shooter Training in Law Enforcement

Sully highlights the inadequacies in current police training programs, particularly in handling active shooter scenarios:

Andrew Sullivan [21:17]: "Most police officers shoot an average of 12 to 15 hours a year. And that's it."

He contrasts this with the extensive training SEALs undergo, advocating for more comprehensive preparation:

Andrew Sullivan [61:32]: "We're providing officers the ability to handle stress better, to make better decisions."

An illustrative success story involves a Boston police officer who effectively de-escalated a knife threat after undergoing Sully's training:

Andrew Sullivan [66:49]: "A female officer... de-escalated the scene and was able to take the guy under custody without having to discharge her firearm."

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Mental Health in Law Enforcement

Addressing the critical issue of mental health, Sully discusses the cultural stigmas that hinder officers from seeking help:

Andrew Sullivan [51:49]: "We've had to really force that mentality and that mindset out of our community for us as a whole to be in a better place."

He shares the parallels between military and law enforcement mental health challenges, emphasizing the need for open conversations and support systems.

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Parenting and Teaching Safety

The hosts and Sullivan discuss strategies for parents to educate their children on safety without instilling fear:

Andrew Sullivan [55:53]: "I want them to be compassionate and understanding of people that are less fortunate and in a way that helps them realize that how fortunate they really are."

Sully advises parents to engage in conversations about situational awareness and the importance of recognizing potential threats:

Andrew Sullivan [26:54]: "We need to have these hard conversations and we have to talk to our kids about situational awareness."

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Challenges in Implementing Enhanced Training

The dialogue addresses systemic obstacles in adopting superior training protocols within law enforcement, including resource limitations and bureaucratic hurdles:

Andrew Sullivan [77:14]: "We just haven't had the track record. We're still a new organization to be able to apply for some of that federal grant money..."

He calls for community support and advocacy to unlock federal funding intended for such critical training initiatives.

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Conclusion and Call to Action

As the episode wraps up, Sully urges listeners to support the Community First Project through donations and spreading awareness. He emphasizes the collective responsibility to ensure safer communities:

Andrew Sullivan [74:55]: "If anybody wants to support us, obviously we need donors, we need companies that are willing to partner with us and support us and bring us in."

Lauryn and Michael express their gratitude for Sully's contributions and reiterate the importance of community involvement in enhancing public safety.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Andrew Sullivan [02:26]: "Being alert... pay attention to what's going on around you."
• Andrew Sullivan [07:30]: "BUDS is mental and it is, and there's a physical attribute to it as well."
• Andrew Sullivan [21:17]: "Most police officers shoot an average of 12 to 15 hours a year. And that's it."
• Andrew Sullivan [29:50]: "You're trying to recognize a problem before it happens..."
• Andrew Sullivan [55:53]: "I want them to be compassionate and understanding of people that are less fortunate..."
• Andrew Sullivan [77:14]: "We just haven't had the track record. We're still a new organization..."

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Key Takeaways

1. Importance of Situational Awareness: Both parents and individuals must remain vigilant and aware of their surroundings to prevent and respond effectively to potential threats.

2. Need for Enhanced Law Enforcement Training: Current police training is insufficient for handling high-stress situations like active shooter incidents. Comprehensive, ongoing training modeled after military standards is essential.

3. Mental Health Support: Addressing mental health in law enforcement is crucial to ensure officers can cope with the stresses of their duties and perform optimally during critical incidents.

4. Community Involvement: Achieving safer communities requires collective efforts, including supporting organizations like Community First Project and advocating for better training and resources for law enforcement.

5. Parental Responsibility: Parents play a vital role in educating their children about safety and situational awareness, equipping them with the skills to recognize and respond to threats effectively.

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For more information or to support Andrew Sullivan's Community First Project, visit c1p.org.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Michael Bostic]

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[Lauren Everts]

She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Fantastic.

[Lauren Everts]

And he a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Are bringing you along for the ride.

[Michael Bostic]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her.

[Andrew Sullivan]

You're trying to recognize a problem before it happens. And that's the awareness we're talking about. Being alert. When I walk, I never walk into a place on my phone. I'm always up. I'm looking at exits, I'm looking at people. Anytime someone is behind me, I'm stepping aside. And that's just probably my background in the military and being overseas and seeing what I've seen. Too many people are hyper focused on what their individual task is that they're doing at that time, that they're not paying attention to the surroundings. And that's just not school students. That's just general public. And that's one of the first things I talk about when I go talk to people about any kind of personal safety is like man okay, you gotta pay attention to what's going on around you.

[Lauren Everts]

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. Today we have Andrew Sully Sullivan on the podcast. This was one of our more intense, interesting episodes. For those of you that do not know who Andrew Sullivan is. Andrew Sullivan was medically retired from the U.S. military in 2020 after nearly two decades of service in the special operations community, including six years at SEAL Team 2 and 11 years at Naval Special Warfare Development Group. He has an assortment and laundry list of different commendations that he received during his time in the military. On this episode we talk about all about how to be more situationally aware, how to protect our children and loved ones. We also talk about how you can contribute more as a citizen to protect the children in the community, the loved ones, everyone. We dive into it with Andrew and.

[Michael Bostic]

If you're wondering if you're watching YouTube, what we're wearing, we are wearing Travis Matthew. I am obsessed with what I'm wearing. It's so comfortable. I wore it to school pickup. It's like a little fleece button up and it's just so comfortable to throw on. You can see it on our YouTube channel. What are you wearing, Michael?

[Lauren Everts]

I wear military green. Olive green. It makes my eyes pop.

[Michael Bostic]

Whatever you think big. Thank you to Travis Matthew. On that note, here's the show.

[Lauren Everts]

This is the Skinny Confidential. Him and her senior chief Andrew Sullivan. Welcome to the show. So glad you came to do this. To give a little context, Lauren and I were in Nantucket this summer. We met you at our mutual friend Henry and Savannah's house. We were very inspired by what you were saying at that event and thought that, you know, it was great that we were hearing it in that intimate setting. But getting you on to share this message here and in person to get a little bit more of your background we thought would just be super interesting. So welcome to the show. I think to start maybe a brief introduction on you to yourself. I mean what you can share. Not sure, but maybe just introduce yourself to start.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Well, I appreciate you guys having me and obviously thank you for, to Savannah and Henry for making this happen and for the introduction. I really wouldn't be here without them. So Andrew Sullivan. Everybody calls me Sully. I grew up in Massachusetts, bounced around a little after high school in college and was in D.C. living when 911 happened. And for me that was, that was a calling card that I needed to do something. And I've always had in the back of my head being a SEAL and joining the military and that was really the catalyst for me, that pushed me over the edge to make the commitment. And I was 24 at the time, which was a little bit older and somewhat established and working, and it was a big decision. But the 912, I was trying to find a recruiter and go that quick, that quick. I knew right away I'm watching it on TV happen and watching the people around me kind of go about what they were doing. And I didn't understand why people weren't more involved because this was life changing for everybody. And that's what I did. I joined the Navy and tried to get on the first flight out of there to go to boot camp with the goal of being a seal. And I went in on a SEAL contract, which means I had a guaranteed opportunity to go to buds, which is SEAL training. Went to buds, checked into my first SEAL team, thinking I would do four years and serve, serve my role and do my part, and then get out and go back to my life. But the people I worked with and the mission, it. It had me, it drew me in, it kept me in. And I don't think there's anything else I could have done in life that would have given me the fulfillment or make me feel like I was doing for my family, in my community, my friends, what I could be doing as a SEAL and going overseas. So it turned into a career.

[Lauren Everts]

And how long was that career in active duty?

[Andrew Sullivan]

18 years. So, yeah, I medically retired in 2020.

[Michael Bostic]

When you look back at your childhood, was there a. Something like a void that you think that it. That it filled, or was it only after 9, 11 that you noticed something?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I don't know that it necessarily filled a void, but I always, I. God, I remember we called it Vietnam. You know, as a little kid, we would go in the woods and we would play guns and, you know, cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians, whatever generation, they all had their thing that, that was us. And growing up in Massachusetts, it's so pro military. And I, you know, I can remember every traffic circle, we call them rotaries, but every traffic circle has a sign right in the middle dedicated to a fallen service member in Vietnam. And, And I remember American flags hanging from overpasses even as a little kid. And to me, that's that patriotism and that, I don't want to say glorified, but, man, as a little kid seeing that, it made me kind of fall in love with the military. So I always had that in the back of my head. But doing it, it's a big commitment it's one thing to want to do, it's another thing to actually, you know, quote unquote, pull the trigger and dedicate your life to doing something like that, to service.

[Lauren Everts]

We've spoken to people that have become seals on the show before. I think you've heard some of those episodes. From your perspective, what does it take to become a SEAL and get through buzz? I think a lot of people think about this and like, oh, could you do it? Could you not do it? People? Lauren, I remember one time, do you think you could? I'm like, I have no idea. I don't think you could know unless you've done it. Like, what are the qualities that it takes to actually make it through?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Man, if I had that, I'd be a rich man if I knew the answer to that question. Because we spend a lot of money in the military and special Forces trying to figure out the qualities in the attributes, you know, 18 to 20 something year old men and women that make them successful at these high stress, critical incident response types of jobs. And in the SEAL team specifically, it's hard to say, you know, everybody has this image of what they think a SEAL looks like, this, you know, big Jack dude and going to go over there and, and just crush. But in actuality they're all different kinds and there are some common denominators. And you know, I've heard it on the show, you know, buds is mental and it is, and there's a physical attribute to it as well. You have to be able to do the physical side of it, which a lot of people can do and a lot of people can do the mental side of it, but they can't do it for the entire time, the eight months that it takes to make it through because it's just too much. If I could put my finger on one attribute that I could say, hey, if this is what you have, then you're going to make it through. Or if you have this, you're not going to make it through. It's impossible because there's just such a broad variety of people that end up going to that training and it's really hard to tell who's going to make it and who's not going to make it.

[Michael Bostic]

That makes sense though, because you guys are a team, right? So it's maybe different attributes and different people that make up the team and the strength.

[Lauren Everts]

I've also heard it's a great way.

[Andrew Sullivan]

To put it and you're absolutely right, it makes sense.

[Michael Bostic]

There's not one common denominator I've also.

[Lauren Everts]

Heard people that have made it through buds and it become seals also say that sometimes there's classes that like the entire class fails and that the team makeup of the people going through it is important or just as important as like going through it individually. Is that true as well?

[Andrew Sullivan]

To some degree, yes. And I don't know if an entire class has failed. I maybe way back in the day, but definitely depending on the time of year you go, if you're a winter class, meaning you go through Hell week, which is, you know what everybody hears about Hell Week. It's, it's five and a half, six days of just non stop training. And if you do that in the winter, you can add freezing water temps to the equation. Right. So winter classes tend to lose more people than some of the other classes at other times a year. But it's if, if you aren't there individually. Right. It is a team aspect. And the SEAL teams, unlike any other department of the military, from day one, everything is about the team. Team, teammate, self, that's your priority. And you're never alone. You have a swim buddy. From day one, they preach that you're not doing anything by yourself, but nobody else is in your head. And if you can't handle the mental aspect of that training by yourself because you know your friend's not your support network when it comes to the mental aspects of buds, if you can't handle that individually, then you're not going to make it through. And a lot of people, it isn't the physical, it's that they get in their own heads and they can't comprehend doing what they're doing for extended periods of time because it sucks. Every day sucks when you're in buds, but it's the best time, the worst time, or what do you call it's the best time that I would never want to do again. Right. Because I made some great friends that I still talk to going suffering together.

[Michael Bostic]

That sounds like the common denominator though is that you are able to get into your own head and even though you're so uncomfortable, fight through the uncomfortableness.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, well, and there is a common denominator on the mental side. People have to be able to handle a lot of stress and compartmentalize the suffering for the greater cause and it's a lot easier to do. I say this and I'm sure people might agree with me. I joined right after 9, 11, a time of war. And every day I went in, my focus was, man, I got to get over there and help that was my motivation to get up every day and suffer with my teammates.

[Lauren Everts]

You had a greater purpose.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I felt like I had a greater purpose.

[Michael Bostic]

How cold of water are we talking in the coldest? I'd like to know.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I mean, it's not cold, plunge cold, but it's cold. I think it gets to like 57, 58 in the winter.

[Michael Bostic]

But you're in it for a long period, I'm assuming.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. So it's, you know, sometimes people have this perception of buds that they're trying to kill you and they're not. Everything is very specific. So they check water temperatures every day and they have charts that say, hey, based on this water temp, you can put the students in the water for X amount of time before they get hypothermic, because they don't, you know, they're spending all this money to put people through training. They don't want to lose people to something dumb like that. Right. There's a lot of other things that could happen outside their control. Like you could tear your ACL mcl, you could get a significant injury. We don't want exposure to be one of those things. So it's very calculated, the training, and it's over how many years now that they've been doing it.

[Lauren Everts]

So if you were, if a young guy came to you now, I was like, hey, I'm motivated. I'm going to buds. I'm going through, like, what pieces of advice would you give that person?

[Andrew Sullivan]

First thing I would say is get your degree. It. It. It's a much different navy than it was when I went through training.

[Lauren Everts]

Get your degree like your, your college.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Go to college. Get your degree first. Absolutely right. And the. It. It's seats to buds are hard to come by. It was a lot easier back in the day, but they're getting such better qualified candidates nowadays. And physically, it's a lot. The Internet is a crazy thing, right? You have a much greater ability to look up what it takes to get through training, and guys are coming in in much better shape. So you need to be able to set your apart, self apart. And, man, a lot of kids now are coming in with college degrees already, which is great. It gives you a little bit of an advantage and a leg up. So that's the first thing I say, hey, man, get your degree. And if college isn't for you, that's fine, you know, do it. But I think college gives you a little bit of life experience. It helps you show yourself that you can follow through on something even if it's not something that you're particularly interested in. And you know, that was me. I didn't finish college. I went in the Navy and then I finished college when I was in the Navy. But it, it helps because every class, it's the 18 year old kids are the first ones to quit. It's the kids that have never been, not all of them, but a lot of these younger kids have never left home. They graduate high school, join the Navy and now they've got someone making them get wet and sandy every morning and they're suffering and miserable and they're like, man, mom didn't do this to me, dad didn't do this to me. Screw this, let me get me out of here. And they quit. And most of them quit before they even get to hell week.

[Lauren Everts]

Do you need to be in top physical shape before you start? Like, were you in shape when you went or you were just. Because it sounded like you already had stuff going. Like were you just kind of like an everyday guy that took care of himself?

[Andrew Sullivan]

But no, I mean, I was, I played sports all the way up till I, till I joined, so I was athletic. I've always been in shape. But I will say I went to boot camp and got out of shape and they do it a lot different now than they did back then. Back then you went to boot camp like everybody else. Now you go to boot camp and you're in a special division where you train all the time. So the quality of candidate they're getting physically is so much better now than it was back when I went through. So I went to boot camp, got out of shape, went to buds, had to get back into shape and it's crawl, walk, run. I don't know if any of your other guests in the SEAL teams have said that. That's the mentality in teams. Crawl, walk, run, walk before you learn to crawl. You can't run before you learn to walk. That's the methodology and the teaching. Like we're going to start at a fundamental level and then we're going to add on and add on and get you to where you're sprinting. So if you show up and you're not in great, let's say you're not a great swimmer, they're going to teach you, you're going to become a great swimmer, you're not a great runner, you're going to be doing a lot of running and you're going to become a great runner. So you know you can definitely show up and have a few shortfalls. It's a lot harder to get selected now, if you have that right, because the physical level is so much higher. But it happens.

[Michael Bostic]

What surprised you about yourself when you were training?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I think my ability to compartmentalize the stuff that I didn't like vice the stuff that I did. And I say that because there's a lot of stuff you do like in buds, short of the people that you're with. Right. Suffering with a group of people makes things tolerable sometimes. And to be able to focus on that and not think about how cold I am or how miserable or wet or am. Or how much my legs are hurting or my back or my head is a skill. And it's one that I didn't know I had. Even playing sports growing up, nothing was ever as physically demanding or challenging as going through that training. And to be able to put that aside for, like you said, the greater purpose was, you know, I was I proud of myself for doing it.

[Lauren Everts]

What was your childhood like with your parents?

[Andrew Sullivan]

It's great. You know, my parents, I have an older brother. I would call it the average, average childhood. I lived to play sports. My brother and I, we never, there was never a season where we weren't doing something and you know, we'd wake up, we'd go outside. Typical family. Hey, come back when the street lights.

[Lauren Everts]

Nothing abnormal.

[Andrew Sullivan]

No, nothing.

[Lauren Everts]

No crazy order. Origin story. That's what I'm always fascinated by because you hear some stories, it's like this wild thing happened and some just seems like just an everyday average.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. And I would say the majority of the guys, the seals that I work with, it's, it's similar. You know, there's, there's, there are definitely some of those guys that, hey, you're going to jail or you're joining the military in those stories or, you know, whatever have you. I know that Dave Goggins is a big one that people hear about in his overcoming his weight loss and his traumatic childhood to make it through training and be a seal. So it's definitely out there. But for me, man, I had a really loving and supporting childhood and I always felt like there was nothing I couldn't do. So in my own way, that was my origin story is I had parents who were super supportive and wanted me to do what made me happy, and that was what I thought would make me happy. And I was right. It did. So, yeah, it was great.

[Michael Bostic]

You mentioned that you kind of had an epiphany on 911 about going to become a Navy Seal, but you, you also didn't mention and you have to tell this story of when you had the epiphany of the fact that something needed to be done about schools. What did you have? Was there a moment that you can remember when you realized, this is a huge problem and I'm going to do something about it?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Absolutely. And I guess to lead into what I'm doing now, which is my nonprofit Community first project, which is Navy seals, we provide no cost training to law enforcement to better respond to these types of critical incidents like active shooters. And for me, when I retired in 2020, I started a for profit company knowing I wanted to train police because, you know, I've worked with police throughout my entire career. Just having the knowledge that I have doing the job, it was, it was easy to be able to give it back and I knew they needed it.

[Lauren Everts]

Wait, on that note, what is the. I mean, obviously there is a gap between SEAL training and police officer. Like how big is that gap though on typical, typical training that a police officer, as far as capability compared to like the training that you guys receive versus the training a typical police.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Apples and oranges. Yeah. So unless you're on a SWAT team, you're not really getting any kind of tactical training. And then if you're on a SWAT team, it really depends on how big the city is and what the budget is like that's going to dictate what type of training you actually get. And so it's significant. It, it is a, especially when you get into like the, the tier one level of SEAL teams whose primary mission is hostage rescue. And that's what you train to every day. And then you go on deployment and you do it. It's, it's quite a bit different than what law enforcement sees now. And to go back to your question, the aha moment for me was I started this for profit company thinking I was going to provide this train to law enforcement. And the only people that were coming to me were military and federal agents. And I realized really quickly that law enforcement couldn't afford it. And I'm watching these incidents, I'm watching the Uvalde's and I'm watching the Stoneman Douglas and all these incidents play out in schools and feeling a little bit like a dirtbag because I'm profiting off of these other organizations when the people that I really wanted to help that are going to protect my kids when they're in school aren't getting the training at all. And that's with a nonprofit. That was my aha moment. That was like, man, well what if we took money off the table? What if I paid for it? You can't say no now you have to do it right. And that was it. And that was how the nonprofit came about. And I started shopping it around and asking what people thought and getting support. And there hasn't been a single person I've talked to yet that hasn't been on board with this idea and wanting to help.

[Michael Bostic]

It's a really uncomfortable, horrible topic to talk about. But you have to talk about it. Since you've started talking about it, what do you think has changed? What are some things that you can point to that you think have made a difference?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Well, we're so new to this. I think the only difference I'm seeing right now is awareness. And it's very small. It's only in the limited circle that I've been able to affect and other people like, I'm not the only one doing this. I'm the only one with my background doing this. But when you read some of the statistics that I'm putting out on my website or my social media, most people are just flabbergasted. They don't realize the limited amount of training that's available to law enforcement.

[Michael Bostic]

What are some of those statistics?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I mean, there are states where it takes more hours of training to become a barber than a police officer. Meaning you have to train longer to carry scissors than a pistol. Right. Most police officers shoot an average of 12 to 15 hours a year. And that's it.

[Lauren Everts]

I shoot more than that.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Exactly right. And it's been my experience that most of the departments don't have the manpower to facilitate that training. So what happens is you go in and you do your qual and you pass and then you leave. And the actual training goes to the people who aren't passing the qual and need remediation. So there are national standards and averages, but I would say most departments are not reaching them. And a lot of states have zero requirements for active shooter training. And Texas actually just was one of the states that passed a law that every police officer has to have active shooter training.

[Michael Bostic]

Amazing, right?

[Andrew Sullivan]

It's great. But what is the training?

[Michael Bostic]

Right, right.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Who's giving it? You know, to me, and I tell everybody this because my training is it's a 40 hour course and a 40 hour course isn't enough. A lot of what's being mandated is an 8 or 16 hour course that is taught by people that have never been in an active shooter situation that are qualified to teach it because they went to a 40 hour course to learn how to teach it and have no real world experience on these things. So that's the training that now signs the officers off to be active shooter response qualified. To me, that is not someone who's qualified to go rescue my kids with a firearm while someone's trying to kill them.

[Lauren Everts]

On that note, what are some of the things you tell parents that are concerned about the safety of their children and putting them in schools and reading, you know, the news and seeing things like this happen in the country? Like what, what do you tell the parents when they come to you and say, hey Sully, I'm, I'm terrified about this happening? Like what, what can you, what resources can you offer them?

[Andrew Sullivan]

First of all, we have a generation of kids that are so embedded in their phones that they're not paying attention to the things that are going on around them. And there's a lot of these incidents where police are going in afterwards and there are children and difficult conversation to have who are dead and their phones are still recorded. Right. Because their first reaction was to pull their phone out and record it and not get away. Right. So it's a very tough thing to talk about with kids. It's a very thing, a tough thing to talk about even amongst adults. But until this epidemic is gone, we have to be having these hard conversations and we have to talk to our kids about situational awareness and about, you know, what are your schools doing? Know what the schools are doing to respond? What is local law enforcement doing? Who's actually going to your kids school in the event that something happens? And what is your police department's protocol for active shooter response?

[Michael Bostic]

When you have looked into this, what is the common denominator of these shooters? Is it most people who want attention? Is there like, what is the things that these, these characteristics that these people have?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I, you know, it's hard to say and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. All that matters is it's happening until it's not happening. We need to figure out the best way to respond to it. That's my job. I'm not here to talk about the, you know, second amendment. I'm not here to talk about the mental health. I clearly think there are problems in this country that need to be, that need to be talked about in a way that everybody's involved, right? Because this isn't everybody problem. This isn't a left problem, this isn't a right problem. We need to have difficult conversations in a meaningful, impactful way. But until that Happens. And until we can agree and figure out a way to stop this stuff from happening, you know, we need to have the best response possible.

[Michael Bostic]

So how do you talk to your daughters before they go to school? Like what, what do, what should I say to my kids about this? What are things that you tell them to look out for, to do? Like do you tell them to go under a desk? Like, what are the things they should do?

[Andrew Sullivan]

So it's hard to say with, with certainty what to do because it's situational based. Right. And a lot of these active shooter programs, and not necessarily for law enforcement, but we're teaching kids, you know, the run, hide, fight. It's good. It's, it's a basic understanding. But sometimes it doesn't come in that order, right. What if the shooter is already in your classroom and you can't run and you can't. And you can hide, Right? So sometimes running is your first option. Sometimes hiding is your first, sometimes fighting is your first option. You don't know. So what I think as parents we need to be doing is having these difficult conversations and trying to teach our kids to look for those warning signs. Who is the kid, you know, potentially that might have the issues Every time we hear the after action on the, these, these shooters, it's never someone who was a normal kid or a normal. Right. There was always warning signs. There's always something that led to that. And if you ask the kids, well, yeah, they were outcasts, they were, they were treated poorly. Right. And that's, that's another issue we need to talk about as parents is how are we treating other kids in our schools? But you need to be able to recognize these things and, and deal with them. And you know, as parents, we need to be talking to the schools and making sure the schools are doing the right things.

[Michael Bostic]

Why can't they tell? Why can't they teach teachers how to defend the students?

[Andrew Sullivan]

So it's a conversation in some places. And I go back to, I go back to the shooting and you said, oh, I shoot more than that. Well, there's a lot of teachers out there that shoot more than that. There's a lot of teachers that were prior service members or prior police officers or hunters or competitive shooters. Right. And they are already involved in the situation if it happens in their school. So there's a great case to be made. Well, let's provide them with a little bit extra training and allow them to carry a gun. But you mentioned that in some places and people freak out, get scared, right? They don't want guns in their schools. And they have a legitimate argument like we're putting.

[Michael Bostic]

It's hard. It's so hard.

[Andrew Sullivan]

It is. And that's why it's a difficult conversation. And what makes it even harder is, you know, a lot of people are so passionate and fired up about it, and it becomes a political issue, and then we can't have a conversation about it because people want to make it.

[Lauren Everts]

Political before we go down that rabbit hole. Because again, I think we could take nine hours and go into 18 different directions, but to avoid that, because obviously that's a. That's an issue that at some point is going to keep being talked about. But you talked about situational awareness, and a lot of people in your line of working profession have mentioned that before. And I think you mentioned it around the children, but I actually think the parents just as much. They're just as good. There's so many people. I walk around in public sometimes, and Lauren knows this. I comment all the time. I'm like, look at all these people. Their head down and they're in the phone, and they have no idea. Someone could just. You see something like, how did that person just get clocked in the face on the street? Or how did that person get started? You see these people walk around like zombies with their heads down or in their phones, just completely unaware. And I think because we live in a civilized place where there's some law and order, and more or less, in some places, people just feel this huge blanket of safety. And my thing is, I walk around with my head on a swivel all the time thinking someone's going to. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think maybe just talking about situational awareness, not only for the children, but for the parents, just because I think that's where it starts to begin with.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Situational awareness. Mindset, right? We need to start talking about the mindset of people who are doing, you know, living their lives. And like you said, the cell phone, it's a great tool. You know, we're walking around with computers in our pocket, right? The knowledge our kids have, knowledge in their hands that we never had. We had to go to the library, look things up in books, right? And now it's. It's there. And that's great, but it's also really dangerous. And, you know, driving. I hardly ever will drive my motorcycle anymore, right? Because people will sit there and be on their phones driving cars, and it's just so unsafe. And it's. It's a tough, again, conversation to have with adults. Who don't like to be told what to do. It's much easier to tell a kid whether they do it or not. I don't know. You know, I can tell my kids all day, put the phone down. And I can't control what they do when they leave the house. It's the same thing with adults, but adults are, I think, a little bit more stubborn.

[Lauren Everts]

But based on what your experience, is it fair to say that if there is a threat of some sort, say someone wants to harm you, Just being aware and making eye contact with that individual is maybe half the battle in some cases because they're playing on people that are unaware. Is that fair to say?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Absolutely. It's 100%. You're trying to recognize a problem before it happens. Right. And that, that's the awareness we're talking about being alert. When I walk, I never walk into a place on my phone. I'm always up. I'm looking at exits, I'm looking at people. Anytime someone is behind me, I'm stepping as I don't. And that's just probably my background in the military and being overseas and seeing what I've seen. It's too many people are hyper focused on what their individual task is that they're doing at that time, that they're not paying attention to the surroundings. And that's just not school students. That's, that's just general public. And that's one of the first things I talk about when I, when I go talk to people about any kind of personal safety is like, man, okay, you got to pay attention to what's going on around you.

[Michael Bostic]

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[Lauren Everts]

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[Michael Bostic]

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[Andrew Sullivan]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

With, with all of all of these schools to protect them. What what does that look like? Like what does your solely checklist look like to get everyone sort of buttoned up?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I mean if it's a magical wand, I just say there's no more active shooters. Right. And it's done.

[Michael Bostic]

Okay. But let's say there is. Let's say that there, that that's a. It could happen.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. So we protect everything that's important to us in our culture except our kids. Like there's no security at a lot of schools and schools that do have security.

[Michael Bostic]

It's weird. You're right. We have an airport. I get felt up and finger banged every single time I go through the fucking airport.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

It's like, thank God I haven't had.

[Andrew Sullivan]

That happen to me.

[Michael Bostic]

They bend me over with the dildo. And at schools there's nothing.

[Lauren Everts]

You know what I would say?

[Michael Bostic]

Ask Michael.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Thank God I'm not flying out of this. Michael.

[Michael Bostic]

Ask Michael. If you're not gonna defend me right now I'm in Atlanta.

[Lauren Everts]

And you know what?

[Michael Bostic]

It's the women that do every time I get.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Tell them, get the extra screen.

[Lauren Everts]

Listen, do you know what she up though? Because she'll come in in Full hair and makeup. Sometimes when we're going to do something like this, I go in, I look like I just rolled out, trash, you.

[Michael Bostic]

Know, I mean, like, smack my ass, whatever. But it is true that you're so right. I'd never even thought about that. The airports are so gnarly and everywhere.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Banks, even businesses, right? You need. You can't get in anywhere without a key card.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, you mean like coming in.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Here, coming in here, going through security. But we don't do that for our schools, and we just want that perception for our kids that, hey, you're safe when you're at school. Right? And that's great. I love that idea. But you know that that's great until it's not great. And at some point, we need to start choosing between safety in the perception of, you know, we live in this free world where nothing bad's going to happen to you because we don't know where the next active shooter is going to be, but we know there's one coming. There's going to be another school shooting. It's not where it's when. Right. And where it's going to happen, we don't know. So we can't pick and choose. All right? We need to make this school safe, that school safe, that school safe, because that's where it's going to happen. It's either all or none. And unfortunately, it's. It's usually the schools with the money to be able to do it that have the security to protect them.

[Michael Bostic]

Are there any schools that are adapting, adopting security? Like, are you seeing some schools that.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Are going absolutely there. There's a lot of schools that are doing it, and there's a lot of. We call them school resource officers. So there's a lot of police departments that have school resource officer programs where they're putting police officers in the schools. But again, it's. It's only good if they're trained. And we saw Stoneman Douglas in. In Florida had a school resource officer, and the guy didn't go in. He went and hid while kids were dying. Right? So a lot of these. And this is in every department. And this is. It might not even be the majority, but there are departments where that position is someone who doesn't necessarily want to be or fit in with, you know, being out in the field as a patrol officer. So we're going to put them in schools.

[Lauren Everts]

But from your perspective as someone with combat experience, is this something that, I mean, obviously you can train for it, but how are you able to, like, Say you put an officer like that, how do you know someone's going to answer the call and have the courage? Like, is there any way you can even vet for that or is it just training?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Well, I think if you started vetting police officers for the attributes it takes to become a Navy seal, you wouldn't have enough police officers. Right. So you can only vet so much in law enforcement to be able to, you know, 800,000 police in the U.S. you have to have a. The standard has to be lower than what it takes to be a tier one operator. But at the same time, if the first time you are under stress the way you would be when someone is actively shooting and not in a training environment that is controlled and you can work on the response and make the response better, then you're wrong. We need to start training police officers in stressful situations. We need to put them in stress regularly as part of their training so that they learn how to deal with the physiological and the psychological effects of stress on the body. Because that is a limiting factor. It's. It's that you're freezing in the moment because you are fearing for your life and you don't know how to respond.

[Lauren Everts]

For somebody who's never been in the situations that you've been in, without going into so much detail, what are the physiological or mental effects that happen when you actually get into a firefighter, a situation? Like what. What happens for somebody who's never experienced anything like that? Like what. What is the body do?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Sure. Have you ever jumped out of a plane?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sullivan]

The first time you jumped, what did you see?

[Lauren Everts]

Not a lot.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Right? Not a lot. You? Tunnel vision at the ground, Like, I.

[Lauren Everts]

Was just trying to put myself. I've only done it once.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm trying to put myself back.

[Andrew Sullivan]

That's what it's like when. Because you're afraid in that moment that if this parachute doesn't open, I'm going to die. And the thing that's going to kill me is that thing I'm staring at right there, which is the ground. So you don't see anything around you. You see that?

[Lauren Everts]

You know what I equate it to? When I was a kid, I used to. Sometimes I used to have a temper. I used to get in fights. And when you're in a fight, you kind of only see.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I always say, like, you don't see anything or hear anything around you.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Your blood pressure goes up. Right. And you know your blood is going to the center of your body and you're losing dexterity. And it becomes harder to make decisions. It's big movements. And like any other life or death situation, your body responds in the way that it's going to. And the only way you can teach it to adapt is by putting yourself in that situation regularly. And it just doesn't happen. It doesn't happen in the military, except for maybe special operations in some select units. It doesn't happen in law enforcement, except for maybe SWAT teams. And unfortunately, it's not SWAT teams responding to school shooters. It's whoever's closest. And usually that's the person with the least amount of training.

[Lauren Everts]

So from the first time that you had situation to the last time, is it a completely different physiological response? You just, your body just adapts and you get used to it?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. And I mean, the first time someone is shooting at you, it's, it's, it's. There's a definite pucker factor. It's not fun and you know, it, it definitely changes. Right. You learn to recognize gunfire. You learn to recognize gunfire from accurate gunfire, and you learn to recognize accurate gunfire from, oh, I need to get on the ground and hide. Right. And you know, if there's a shooting in this building right now, the hardest thing to know would, hey, where is that shooter? You just hear a gunfire and you panic and you don't know what to do because am I running towards it, am I running away from it? It's a really hard thing to discern for someone that hasn't been around that regularly. And that just adds to the fear in the unknown. And the more you put yourself in those situations, the easier it becomes to make better decisions. And at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. We're just trying to help officers control the stress in the response so they can make better decisions that are going to save lives and keep them safe as well.

[Michael Bostic]

So is there a different sound from like a fake gunshot? You just kind of said to a real. There's different sounds.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, a real gun, fire, vice, a blank or something. There is a different sound and it's going to be louder and there's going to be more concussion that comes along with it, depending on how close you are to it. But there's also, when bullets are coming at you, there's the sound of the bullets whizzing past you that you can hear. So you might hear gunfire, but if you're not hearing the rounds impacting, then the gunfire is not coming in your direction.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't think that, you know, obviously we're, we're pro military on the show and pro police and that all. And we've been, and we've always been that way. But I, I, I, the reason so much is do you. I used to read a bunch of Web Griffin books. You know, him back anyways, so I would read all this stuff and it, and I just, what the thing that I took away from it as a kid reading those books is you just don't realize how far removed you are as the, as an average person from people that do what you do or do what police officers do. So I'm so empathetic and appreciative of people that put themselves in the situations you put them. Because like, yeah, even in, like I told you, we just did that tour in, on, in Coronado for the SEAL bases. And like when you get, and that's still so far removed, but when you realize there's like people right now in places where bullets are flying keeping you safe and there's active police officers that are there doing this line of work, trying to keep the community safe, I think like, the average person has such a disconnect from that and it's easy to get online and like, get on your high horse and comment whatever way you feel. But I just, I think that, that it's unfortunate that that disconnect exists. Obviously it's going to be there because you're not in the situation, but if people would just get closer to empathize, like what guys like yourself and women like your, like, go through, it's just a, it's just a wild thing to fathom and think about. Like, we've, Lauren and I have never had to be in a situation where like, there's bullets flying and we're having to distinguish between the sounds. You know what I mean?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I do. And yeah, that. I appreciate that. It's, it's a, definitely a great perspective. And I would say one of the hardest things I have to do is, is, is teach people that there's actually a problem because Hollywood paints law enforcement and military in a light that isn't accurate. And so most people believe that police are these Navy SEALs. They have the same training.

[Michael Bostic]

I did before I heard you talk.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Right.

[Lauren Everts]

And I did.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I thought it couldn't be any further from the truth. Like you said, you shoot more than most police officers. Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And I, and I do not consider myself qualified to be a police officer or an active military member. And I do do that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So it's crazy to hear you say that.

[Andrew Sullivan]

So we have, that's part of the reason. And I think that, that there's a lot of negativity towards law enforcement because there isn't really an understanding of what they do. But when things get bad, we expect them to do job, their job at a level that they're not trained to do it at.

[Lauren Everts]

And they're set up, it's like a.

[Andrew Sullivan]

They'Re set up, a failure. I use sports analogies and it, if, I'll give you one. But like if you were to take a, a baseball player and say, hey, I'm going to make you a quarterback, right? So he's an athlete, he's obviously got some ability, athletic ability. And then you, you bring in an ex quarterback and teach him how, you know, his is how you throw a football and you know, teach him some maybe fundamentals of this is a pass pattern, this is a drop back and, and for a week you teach him how. And then you set up some canned plays with fake defense and you let him run those plays and he succeeds because they're canned. And then at the end of the week said, okay, here you go, you're a quarterback. Go back to your job as a baseball player and then five years later, call that guy and tell him, hey, Tom Brady's hurt, you're starting in the Super Bowl. What do you mean I don't know how to play football? No, it says here you're a quarterback. You, you took a one week class.

[Michael Bostic]

And also it's like, it's not like, oh, like you have a day to prepare. It's like, we need you now.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Right now. That's what we're doing to these police officers. We're giving them a week of training on, you know, tier one Navy SEAL mission, which is a hostage rescue or active shooter. And then we're sending them back to do their job. And then who knows, at any point in their career they get a call and say, hey, I need you to do this Tier 1 mission and go rescue these kids. And then when they fail, we want to blame them and throw them in jail and sue the police departments and just ruin their lives, right? Well, of course they're going to fail. You didn't prepare them to be able to respond to this.

[Lauren Everts]

What worries me about some, and I've said this before, and I got some shipped for saying, I know some of the negative press that a lot of these police forces get is like if you're seeing this as an aspiring individual, that's like maybe thinking you want to be a police officer. And now you're seeing some of the flack these people take if they, whether they fail or they do or they do something wrong or like what I worry about is like, who then is saying like that's the career I want to jump into. Like you're kind of, you're maybe going to get people that like all the people that you might want to get might say, hey, I'm not doing that anymore.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. And we see it up, by the way.

[Lauren Everts]

I think the same thing for politicians, but.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Right. And we see it a lot in those, you know, places like Boston, New York, Chicago, all these old blue collar cities that have generational police departments. Right. My grandfather was a cop, My great grandfather was a cop, my father was a cop. I'm going to be a cop. Well, now they're going to be firemen because nobody hates when a fireman shows up. Everybody's happy. Right. You're coming to save my life. Come on. I love it. And you know, the pay scale is the same, the hours are better. Right. You work two days, you're out or work one day, you're off four days, whatever the. So we're losing all these potentially qualified people that wanted to be police officers. And now because of this public sentiment that vilifies law enforcement, they're choosing other careers. And then the people that have been on the job for a long time are getting out and leaving and all that experience is going with them. It's a scary time. And I'd like to say that the pendulum is starting to swing back and that perception is changing. But we've already done a lot of damage.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, I think people are starting to maybe think and come around to the idea that it might be a good idea to have law and order in our city.

[Michael Bostic]

What a novel concept with what you're doing with your organization. Is all the resources going to training police officers. Is there a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 thing you're doing or is everything going to training police officers? That's it.

[Andrew Sullivan]

So we have a couple pillars. One is let's. Our goal is community safety. That is it. That is our mission. We want safer communities for our family. I did this because of my kids. I want my kids, when they leave the house to be safe. I don't want to worry that they're going to go to a movie and someone's going to walk in and start shooting or to school or to the mall. Right. That's what it is. That's mission number one is how do we keep our kids safe? And we do that by Making sure that the people who are tasked with responding to these incidents are as highly qualified as possible and we're getting them the best training as we can, and we're doing it at no cost. The second one is because in part of all this stuff we just talked about with the negative sentiment from a large part of the population against police and the types of things that we're seeing, specifically with the school shootings and children dying, the mental health issue in law enforcement is critical right now. It is at a critical point. And I say it's probably where we were in the military about 10 years ago as far as the response and the culture and how we need to change the culture in law enforcement to really prioritize mental health among officers. So that's another thing. And I love, you know, from my perspective, it doesn't cost me money to pair an officer up with a SEAL or a special operator from the army who has had a similar incident. Right? So maybe an officer gets shot, I'll pair them up with a someone who else from my world who's been shot. And it's just pure mediation. Okay. This is how I work through that problem and trauma and this is the type of care I received and how I got back to work. Or you took a life. All right, well, here's, you know, a SEAL who had a similar shoot had to take a life. This is what they did to get back to where they need to be. So that, that's just building relationships and fostering relationships between my community and that community.

[Lauren Everts]

I have two questions for you. One, what do you personally do to stay in the right mental space after everything you've seen and done? And how do you kind of like, I guess compartmentalize in a way? And also, what is the experience like when you actually get shot? Like, what goes through your mind?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, it's not fun, right, I'm sure.

[Lauren Everts]

I know, I didn't expect you to say it's fun.

[Andrew Sullivan]

So for me, I teach, I teach and I talk to me that this is my mental health. I've always been a service oriented person. That's why I joined the military in the first place. And just because I retired from the military, I didn't lose the passion to serve and to help. I just found a different outlet for it. And thankfully, that outlet is also, for me, it's mental health. To be able to teach someone something that I learned over my two decades in the seals that potentially could save their lives or the lives of an innocent person is a very gratifying thing. To do. And I also think talking to my peers about my experiences and overcoming some of the cultural faux pas of, hey, you know, we're these tough guys. We don't talk about our feelings and problems. You know, we've had to really force that mentality and that mindset out of our community for us as a whole to, to be in a better place.

[Lauren Everts]

You think that was contributing to a mental issues because people just would bottle everything in?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I think so.

[Lauren Everts]

Right.

[Andrew Sullivan]

But that's, that's what we teach. That's, that's how we learn from day one. That, that has been the culture of the military since the military started. Right. So it's a really hard thing, especially when, you know, our generation, my generation was two decades of sustained combat. Like we haven't seen that.

[Michael Bostic]

My dad's uncle was, was in Vietnam and he told, he told me, my dad told me that he, what he went have so much stress and so much trauma and they actually told him like, don't talk about it. And he ended up getting schizophrenia because I believe he. You go crazy when you can't talk about it and you can't share.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, it's it and it, again, it's a cultural thing in Vietnam. Nobody knew what PTSD was back in Vietnam. Right. We just had all these guys coming back that were up because they were doing, seeing these atrocities overseas and they had no outlet for that.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. And then they said, don't talk about.

[Andrew Sullivan]

It, don't talk about it.

[Lauren Everts]

Imagine some of those old guys were some of the guys that trained you guys too, huh?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, maybe there's still a few, one or two around. But ironically, most of the guys that put me through training earlier on were that post Vietnam pre 911 seal that never really went to Congo.

[Lauren Everts]

That's interesting because we didn't have a.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Big role in the first Gulf War. So, you know, Blackhawk down, we had a few guys over there, but for the most part, there wasn't a lot of combat for SEALs in that time. So the tactics I learned coming up were Vietnam era and they don't apply to Afghanistan, Iraq or the other places we went to. And we learned that really quick because we would get people killed using them. So you have to adapt and overcome. And that's something that we're trying to teach law, enforce law enforcement right now, is that you can't use the same tactics you used, you know, for serving a warrant that you're going to use for an active shooter. Doesn't work that way. And it's hard. It's hard to get people who have this cultural generational thought of, hey, man, we've always done it this way. We're not going to change now. To really understand why they need to change.

[Michael Bostic]

What conversations are you having with your kids? And I'm not just talking about school shootings. I'm talking about in general, about the world right now.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Well, I have a teenager and an almost teenager, so there's not a lot of conversations.

[Michael Bostic]

So they know everything. They already know everything.

[Andrew Sullivan]

They should tell me what to do. I mean, I love my girls, Taylor.

[Michael Bostic]

And Tegan, and they're a girl.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Two girls.

[Michael Bostic]

So if they're a girl and they're a teenager, they really do know everything.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I knew everything every day. Every day. It's great, right? I don't know where they get it. It's very hard to have a conversation with a teenager, as you know, I'm sure you were a teenage girl once, you probably know. You know, I just, I try to engage them. They're. They're definitely at that point where they don't necessarily want to be engaged or talk about that stuff. But, you know, sometimes you just gotta force feed them some. Some issues and talk about it. Or at least I try to feel where they're at on it and if it's something that's bothering them, them. And whether I need to dig in a little further.

[Michael Bostic]

What are the top three things that you think are important? Like if you could say three things to them, what are those three things?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I think situational awareness. I think they need to be more aware of their environment in general. And that's every kid in this world. Right. Because we're so engaged in social media and in personal devices that we're not paying attention to what's going on in the world around us. I also would like to see my kids and. And again, it wasn't me either. But take an interest in what's going on around the world and understanding that we do live in a country with freedoms that aren't seen anywhere else and that they are fortunate to be born in the greatest country in the world and to have all the things that they have. And another thing is I want them to be aware that they do have a lot and they might not have everything they want, but comparatively, I want them to be compassionate and understanding of people that are less fortunate and in a way that helps them realize that how fortunate they really are.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, I mean, again, I think there's a disconnect and I'm passionate about this. I think if you were born in this country and you have the liberties that this country offers, you just don't realize that you have it better than the majority of the world.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Everts]

If you've seen what I mean, you've seen it firsthand. But I just think people that don't, they're not aware, they haven't seen it. They don't, they don't understand how good they have it almost. And there's a lack of gratitude then because you just feel like, oh, like whenever I hear people whining and crying about how bad it is here, I'm like, there are people that don't that would die and give everything to come here and have what you have. There are people that do do that. They give everything and they leave their whole world behind to come here. But again, like, it's like being able to see past your own front door, your own. You know, it's crazy.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Some of the unhappiest people are the people with the most. And then, you know, some. I think I've been to 80 something countries, right? Some of the happiest people that I've ever come across are the people that have the least. And what do you think that is? Man, I don't know. I wish I did. It's crazy, though. Some people that, you know, if they don't work, they don't eat every day and that's it. That's their life from birth to death. And they're happy and the kids are happy.

[Michael Bostic]

What countries are you talking when you say this?

[Andrew Sullivan]

It's, it's not necessarily a country thing. It's, you know, man, all the countries I've been to, you see it, it's not one specific country.

[Michael Bostic]

What do you do? This is, this is a tangent, but that's the show.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

To get your muscles now. How are we keeping the muscles?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Man, I watch your show and while I'm working out and that really motivates me. Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm assuming weightlifting.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. So, I mean, I've always been an active person and so I have a, a fairly strict schedule when I'm not traveling.

[Michael Bostic]

What's the schedule? I can't wait to hear it.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Oh, man. Yeah. So I wake up every day, usually around the same time. I don't, I don't set an alarm. It's.

[Lauren Everts]

What time?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Usually? 6:30.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. Not too early.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, not, not late. Not early.

[Lauren Everts]

I was joking with Carson. I was like, listen, Sully's out there. He's been hiding under the table the whole, all morning.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I'll be, I'll Be waiting for.

[Lauren Everts]

Escort me down to my car.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I get up every day. I. Two cups of coffee, start my day. I watch the news, and then. Then I work out. And then my. My gym is my garage, so I don't have to go far. And usually it's some kind of weightlifting in cardio, whether it's treadmill or rower or bike. And then I. For me, while I work out, I'm working, right? So I'll have music on in the background. I have a whiteboard in my garage. I'm big on. Like, I need. I'm a visual person. I have to write stuff out. And I do a lot of my critical thinking while I'm lifting.

[Michael Bostic]

I love that.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And I have my board, and it's. Something pops in my head. It's like, okay, that's what I need to focus on today. I write it down, and then I'm done. I drink my protein. I'll eat something. And I go back and I snap a shot, a picture of that whiteboard, and I go to my computer, and that's usually what I'll start working on.

[Michael Bostic]

God damn it. Solely now, when Michael gets a gym, because now he's going to have a whiteboard in the gym. I can walk down to the kitchen.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Make it a big one.

[Michael Bostic]

I cannot make it a big one. See his brain, like, oh, I need a whiteboard. Do you know what you're going to whiteboard?

[Andrew Sullivan]

You know what's better? They have the digital ones now.

[Michael Bostic]

So cool.

[Andrew Sullivan]

That's what you should do. You know, a couple grand, big digital one, and you can. You can do all that swoopy, swipey stuff. It's great.

[Lauren Everts]

So before you jump, I want to talk about.

[Michael Bostic]

No, before. Before you jump, I have a couple Savannah questions.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Oh, God.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, I have some Savannah questions.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I feel like I should be a little bit afraid.

[Michael Bostic]

No, it's. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. This is a good question. How do you feel about police cameras?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I guess it's less about how I feel and more about how police feel. And I think there was a general consensus of what the fuck? When they first came out with them. But in my opinion, they have protected the police more than they've affected the police. And they've shown that in most situations, the police are actually doing the right thing. And so it's. It's hard to push back, I think, from a learning side and to be able to go back and, you know, we're big in the military on. Especially the teams on after action and Debriefing everything we do. And I think that's something that needs to be put into law enforcement a lot more like, hey, you just had an incident. Whether it's real or training, let's pull the footage, let's watch your response and let's cater our and tailor our training to be able to fix what you did, whether it was right or wrong, to do it better the next time.

[Michael Bostic]

It's genius. It's refinement.

[Andrew Sullivan]

It is, it's.

[Michael Bostic]

That's genius. I think that's very smart. Okay, what is the most important tactic or skill that you teach? It could be like a very like specific, detailed thing.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I think it's the ability to handle stress. You know, if I had to break down the nonprofit into one line, it's we're providing officers the ability to handle stress better, to make better decisions.

[Michael Bostic]

I like to drop my kids off at school. I like to have a go to uniform. I don't want to be switching it up. I like to keep it simple. I don't want a lot of print. I want something warm. It's detailed. And there's a cloud fleece half zip that I've been wearing a lot. It's from this brand. Travis Matthew. I actually got it in a baby blue and a black. I sized up and got a medium and it looks so cute with leggings or a bodysuit. I'll throw on my ugg boots and I'm out the door, ready to go. They also have a lot of good basics that are simple. They have a gift guide. They have stuff under a hundred dollars under $50. But if you're going to go on the site, you have to check out this cloud fleece half zip up. Okay. It's a good one and it's just classic. It's a classic Nantucket esque zip up. I don't know about you, but I feel like it's really, really flattering. There's something about a zip up. I feel very like mom but cool in this zip up. Go on and look at it. It's very cute. This makes total sense because Travis Matthew is apparel designed for confidence and comfort no matter where the day takes you. And my day takes me from my kids school to working out to the office to picking them up, from school to baking cookies to then going back to the office all the time. And so I need something that I can just throw on that's warm because it's cold right now in Austin. But I also want simple. I don't want something that's super crazy. Consider Travis Matthew your holiday headquarters and discover the perfect gift for everyone on your list. Visit travismathew.com and receive 20% off your order with code skinny. That's travismathew.com code skinny best stocking stuffer, best gift on the planet. I stand by this is Symbiotica. What I did for my dad and I did this last year is I got him the glutathione, the vitamin C and the magnesium. This is the no brainer trio that you should gift for the holidays. And you should also go ahead and just order a box for yourself because these are the three that are my favorites. I personally like Symbiotica because they have a lot of integrity around their supplements. So so many on the market, if you look at this, have filler or harmful ingredients, but Symbiotica's products are all made with specific formulations, so they're formulated with the highest quality ingredients out there. There's no seed oils. I don't want to have my supplements and have seed oil. There's no preservatives, toxins, artificial additives or even natural flavors. They're really transparent about how they source ingredients. So the ones that all my family take that I gift are, like I said, the glutathione. I also like Symbiotica's magnesium L threonate. That is an essential. People are so low on magnesium and they're all liposomal delivery, which means your body can absorb the nutrients much faster and more effectively than traditional pills. So basically when you put this little pouch in your mouth, it tastes so delicious. The glutathione is so good it just absorbs into your body, which is awesome. Start your Symbiotica subscription today. You can save 15% off your order with our Code Skinny. Just go to symbiotica.com theskinny and use code Skinny on your subscription order. It's the magnesium, the glutathione and the vitamin C that you want. The vitamin C is so good in water in the morning. I'm really excited because the vagina is having a moment right now, a real big moment and such a moment that we interviewed the founder of O Positive Health. So what this brand is is it supports every woman at every stage of life from their first period to well beyond their last. And it was cool because the founder told me that she wanted to start this brand because she had worst periods. All of their products have really amazing ingredients that are very intentional that support you when you're going through ant flow. Maybe you're going through menopause. Maybe you need something to support your endocrine system. They have like this flow endocrine superfood powder. It's the first and only all in one endocrine superfood power. But essentially it's designed to give you clinically studied ingredients with fun and flavor to break down taboos about women's health.

[Lauren Everts]

Health.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm sure you guys have seen O positive health in Target nationwide. It's in the intimate care aisle. And it's also online at Amazon and opositive.com People are so obsessed with this product that it's all over TikTok. It's kind of like a one stop shop for vaginal health. They have an intimate deodorant. I though I'm a fan of the period support. I think it's great. They even have boric acid suppositories so you can get everything you need to support your vagina and hormone health. Visit opositive.com and use code skinny at checkout for 25 off. That's opossitiv.com code skinny for 25% off your order. That's O positive without the E.

[Lauren Everts]

As somebody who's been under such stressful situations. Like what. What are some of the tools you would give to just the average everyday person?

[Andrew Sullivan]

For me it's. And this is something I learned in buds is if you think about two months down the road and not what you're working at right now, it's really hard to succeed. Right. You have to take problems one step at a time.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And handle what's right in front of you before you can handle what's down the road.

[Lauren Everts]

You're good at that.

[Michael Bostic]

I always say I need to handle this so I can get to the other side. I think of it like a fence.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

Like I can't. I can't even look at Z if I haven't done a. I cannot stand.

[Lauren Everts]

She's really good at that.

[Michael Bostic]

When he brings. I, I, I have a detachment thing where I can detach. Should I, should I try out?

[Andrew Sullivan]

I think you should.

[Michael Bostic]

I can handle 30.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I will be here at 5am Tomorrow start. We'll start working out.

[Michael Bostic]

I don't love 5am Bring a whiteboard. Can we make it 10?

[Lauren Everts]

Do you think Buzz can work around our schedule?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Of course. Yeah. I mean it's all about you guys.

[Michael Bostic]

This is an amazing question and I, I almost hope it's a no.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Okay then. No.

[Michael Bostic]

Have any of the teams you've trained been in a situation to use Your training?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yes, and it's a great question and it's really hard to quantify what we do because these things don't happen a lot. And really the only way to be able to quantify it beyond the feedback from the people going through the training is, well, when do they actually get to use the training? And at actually Nantucket Defend, I have a Boston police officer who went on video and provided some feedback on a female officer who went through the training that responded to a call of a suspect with a knife and jumped in with other officers and they were all like, who the hell is this? Right. Because she went right to the problem and solved the problem and de escalated the scene and was able to, to take the guy under custody without having to discharge her firearm. Right. So she did everything she was taught and she had gone through the course, I think a month before.

[Michael Bostic]

Like, what does the course teach if someone hasn't, like, just as someone who doesn't know anything about this, like what are the steps that you're teaching this woman to do when there's a guy with a knife?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, so we focus on the fundamentals of a tactical response to a critical incident. What that mean is crawl, walk, run, Right. So police officers will get a basic introduction to tactics in the academy and that's it. So they don't have a fundamental baseline to build on when responding to a tactical situation. And if they don't go to a tactical team, they're never going to get it. So we design our training on, all right, the very basics of a SEAL learning how to do a room entry. That's where we start. Day one week one of, you know, selection for dev group is, you know, a two man entry into a room with a pistol with no, no ammo in it, just to learn how to go through a threshold of a door. And then we add and add and add until they're doing by the third day, complex scenarios with role players and paint rounds to where they're having to decide whether or not they need to take shots. Right. Because a big thing in law enforcement is de escalation is target id. Who am I shooting? Who am I not shooting? Imagine going into a school with a. Yeah, it's a kid with a T shirt and blue jeans on and he's shooting people. And you walk in the hallway and there's a hundred kids running in every direction away from this person and you are fearing for your life and you have a gun in your hand. Like the stress to be able to.

[Lauren Everts]

Decide to decide if you're going to shoot a case.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, exactly. Right, right. So to be able to. That's what we're teaching. And what we're saying is if I can put you under stress and help you realize that you don't need to make a split second decision. You need to make a two second decision. And I just bought you a second and a half of more time to analyze and respond. Maybe that's the difference between I need to take this shot and I don't need to take this shot. Or maybe that's the difference between I need to take the shot on this person, not that person, because they're dressed exactly what I was told the shooter was wearing. But that guy doesn't have a gun. That guy does have a gun. So it's significant. It's a lot to learn in a short amount of time. And like I said before, one week isn't enough. But we're certainly going to identify the problems and hopefully help these departments build better training plans going forward.

[Michael Bostic]

Can like Michael take the course or is it just law enforcement?

[Andrew Sullivan]

It's for the nonprofit. It's just law enforcement.

[Michael Bostic]

You should do like we do it.

[Andrew Sullivan]

On a for profit side. Right. So we.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm gonna send him. That's what he's getting for Christmas.

[Andrew Sullivan]

There you go.

[Michael Bostic]

Learn how to defend me.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Absolutely. And we do.

[Lauren Everts]

I think she should learn it too though.

[Michael Bostic]

Nope. Yeah. Okay, I will.

[Andrew Sullivan]

There's a lot of things you can learn.

[Michael Bostic]

He's right. No, he's right. I just feel like I've been trying.

[Lauren Everts]

To take her for years to go.

[Michael Bostic]

A lot in my life. I do a lot in my marriage. And I just feel like if I can't just close my eyes at night and be defended.

[Lauren Everts]

What if I'm not there one night?

[Michael Bostic]

But you're always there. You're up my ass.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Why?

[Lauren Everts]

Maybe one day I won't be.

[Michael Bostic]

Okay.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Oh man.

[Michael Bostic]

But like it's. I just sometimes am like. Can he just do it?

[Lauren Everts]

Let's put it this way. Don't you want.

[Michael Bostic]

But then I hear you talk and I need to be more situation like to be. I need to be more skill you.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Have that you hope you never have to use.

[Michael Bostic]

Yes, I agree with you.

[Lauren Everts]

Listen, I, you know.

[Michael Bostic]

So you do women too?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yes, all the time. I prefer that. Yeah. Thank you.

[Lauren Everts]

But let me ask you this, Lauren. So like here we have a daughter now and I want her to know you better be sure. Like I'm going to want to teach her some of these skills and how to be situationally aware. Like you I don't like it's important because just being aware of threats and danger that are around you is like, like I said, I think it's a huge portion of it.

[Michael Bostic]

I can be oblivious. I know what my weaknesses are and I'm a little oblivious, which makes me nervous if I'm being really self aware to be around a firearm. There's something about it that I'm, I, I can be a little distracted. And so that makes me, I, it makes me a little bit nervous.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah, but you should have a basic understanding of firearms.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, I don't.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And kids, you know, as soon as my kids were old enough, you know, I shoot with them sometimes, but as soon as they're old enough to hold a gun or go to a friend's house where, you know, I don't know what their parents are doing when they're.

[Michael Bostic]

At a friend's house.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Right. So my kids have a working knowledge of gun safety.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And they have an interest in shooting, but they're going to know about firearms and they're going to know like if there's a firearm and I'm not around, treat it like it's loaded. Don't touch it. If they want to touch it, you need to leave that situation. Right. And as a parent, we should be teaching that because even if we don't have guns in the house, which a lot of people don't, you don't know where they're at after school, especially as they get older. And you want them to know how to respond to those situations. And I would say the same thing applies to you, you know? Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, listen, like, I was fortunate. My dad was in the Navy and he was, since I remember, I probably like, I had to be 10 years old the first time that I learned how to handle fire. I mean, he. And it's just like a normal thing. I think a lot of people that have never had that experience, it's like crazy. But for people that grew up with it, it's like, it's just, it's just a tool. Right. And it is. As long as you understand the function of that tool.

[Michael Bostic]

And I would take your class.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, let's do it. But it's, I would rather like, I think just for you alone, it's important to just know how it works, what it is, how to handle like all of those things. Because you never know.

[Andrew Sullivan]

We'll get Henry and Savannah down here and we'll just, we'll all do it.

[Michael Bostic]

Okay.

[Andrew Sullivan]

We'll go shoot for a day or a couple days And I heard Henry's.

[Lauren Everts]

Got some fun stuff.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostic]

This is the last Savannah question.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Okay.

[Michael Bostic]

Do you get hit on constantly?

[Andrew Sullivan]

No.

[Michael Bostic]

Really?

[Andrew Sullivan]

Sometimes. But no. I mean, I. I'm not usually in situations where that happens. Right.

[Michael Bostic]

Maybe people are scared to hit on you because they don't want to come out of nowhere.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Maybe. I don't know. I think, you know, when I'm home, I'm home. I don't go out much. I'm with my kids and when I'm on the road, I'm working. It's, you know, I love my job.

[Michael Bostic]

I'm going to tell you something, Sully.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Oh, God.

[Michael Bostic]

There's been a couple people who have come on this podcast.

[Andrew Sullivan]

No.

[Michael Bostic]

One of them got married and has two kids now.

[Andrew Sullivan]

So I try that.

[Michael Bostic]

Be careful.

[Andrew Sullivan]

I have two kids, you know.

[Michael Bostic]

Be careful. Yeah. There might be a DM slide. Where can. Every.

[Lauren Everts]

Now, before we go, I want to talk about if people want to support the charity. And I want you to also talk to the parents about how this works. You go around to different cities, different forces, and you're able to offer training. So maybe just go into that before we go.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Yeah. So the big thing is to be able to train police departments across the country. And to do that, it's a significant amount of money. Right. So it cost me about 20 to 25 grand a week to do this training. In the two years we've been doing this, we've raised over a million dollars and we've trained a significant amount of police officers and police departments. But for every department I train, there's probably nine departments that I have to turn down because I don't have enough money or time to do it right now. So to be able to support us, obviously we need donors, we need companies that are willing to partner with us and support us and bring us in. And we need departments. And c1p.org is our website. You can check us out on social media. Community_first_project. Obviously, if anybody wants to support training within their schools, that. That's completely different. Right. But we do have a couple of the schools up in Boston that we're working with now with some of the private schools that have, you know, parents that want us to come in and assess the school security and assess their plan, which we can do that as well. And then train their organic security along with the police departments that are in the cities that they're residing in. So there are options of things we can do. And obviously on a for profit side, for personal security, home Defense, firearms, instruction and training. We can do that as well.

[Lauren Everts]

So for parents that may want to bring this to their city or their community and they hear this, they can get together with a group of other parents and they can say, okay, we can donate it. Would you say C1P?

[Andrew Sullivan]

They can donate there. They can message me there as well, and we can talk about what that looks like.

[Lauren Everts]

So say people in Austin say, okay, we want Sully and his team to come here and train in Austin. They can say, the Austin group of parents can get together and bring this. Or if they're in Boston or when.

[Michael Bostic]

My daughter goes to kindergarten, I think we should get together.

[Lauren Everts]

We're in. And we're gonna do. And we're. And we're gonna do something. I told you that. But I just want the parents understand, like, if you're listening to this and you want Sully and his team to come to your city or to your.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Everts]

You get the group together and say, okay, let's see if you can make it happen. And then you could be in conscious contact with those parents and make what?

[Andrew Sullivan]

If someone wants to donate, they can [e-mail]. It's the easiest way. Just go to the website. You'll see the big red button on the top right corner. Click on that, you can donate. And, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be donating. Follow us on social media, Share our message. As I told you guys, a lot of what we do is trying to get the word out that help is actually needed in the deficiencies in training in law enforcement. So sharing our message and sharing our posts help with that as well.

[Lauren Everts]

Last question. To put some pressure on the federal side of the government, why is the federal government not funding more training like this with all of the money that we waste in all of these different areas? Maybe DOGE is going to come in and change some of that. But why is that? Why is the federal government not funding this kind of training for the people that protect us more?

[Andrew Sullivan]

They are. Okay. And there is a significant pot of money, and we're actually going to be going after in 25. We just. We haven't had the track record. Right. We're still a new organization to be able to apply for some of that federal grant money, but there's hundreds of millions of dollars available and a lot of it goes unused.

[Lauren Everts]

And so you can. You could potentially unlock some of that federal money.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Potentially. That's the goal. So if anybody's listening has, has, you know, lobbying power to help us do that, then you know, that helps. Grant writers are another thing. We're always looking for people that want to help us with the grant writing side. But at the end of the day, the federal money is there and it goes to departments or it goes to organizations, but it doesn't mean it's the right training for these people. Right. In my opinion there, there's a systemic problem in how law enforcement changes that needs to be changed at the fundamental level. And that's a significant price tag.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, well, you know, like, if you see what's happening now in some of the stuff that, in the conversations that's going around, food and farming and our like, I think fortunately some of these kinds of properties are being being listened to with more frequency and with. And taken more seriously. And I think like this is where the conversation again, like just being aware that this isn't happening for a lot of these police forces is important. I don't think, I think the average person would assume that these people are getting top notch training and should have all the capability and they should be.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And I understand completely why people assume that. It's just not the case. And I need people to realize that. And if you knew actually the limited amount of training that officers get outside of a tactical unit, that that should scare you as a parent, as a community member, that should scare you.

[Michael Bostic]

My antennas are up.

[Lauren Everts]

Good.

[Michael Bostic]

All right, so where can everyone slide.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Into your DM c1p.org that that's the website I'm at, sully_c1p. That's my Instagram community,_first_project. That is the nonprofit Instagram. So shoot me a message if you think you can help in any way or sport or just, you know, positive affirmation. We love it all.

[Michael Bostic]

Alex, Savannah, Henry, thank you for coordinating this, connecting us.

[Lauren Everts]

Sully, thank you for doing this. Thank you for all that you've done.

[Andrew Sullivan]

And all that you're doing.

[Lauren Everts]

Appreciate you, man.