From Life in Prison To Purpose: How To Rise From Rock Bottom & Rewrite Your Story Ft. Damon West

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Show Episode: From Life in Prison To Purpose: How To Rise From Rock Bottom & Rewrite Your Story Ft. Damon West
Release Date: July 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this powerful and unflinching episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Show, hosts Lauryn Evarts Bosstick and Michael Bosstick welcome Damon West, also known as Michael Bostick, to share his remarkable journey from a Division I quarterback to a life-changing speaker and bestselling author. Damon's story is one of profound redemption, illustrating how one's darkest moments can be transformed into a beacon of hope and purpose.

Early Life and Ambitions

Damon begins by recounting his early life, highlighting his achievements as a talented athlete.
Notable Quote:
"I was the starting quarterback at North Texas, living the dream." ([08:03])

His athletic prowess earned him a scholarship and a promising future in sports, but fate had other plans.

The Descent: Injuries and Addiction

A pivotal moment occurred on September 21, 1996, during a game against Texas A&M, where Damon suffered a severe shoulder injury, effectively ending his football career.
Notable Quote:
"Football wasn't just gone; my identity vanished with it." ([09:14])

Struggling with his loss, Damon turned to alcohol and later methamphetamine, leading him down a path of addiction and criminal activity. His descent into white-collar crime and organized theft marked the beginning of his troubles with the law.

Arrest and Incarceration

On July 30, 2008, Damon's life took a dramatic turn when a SWAT raid led to his arrest for burglary. Facing overwhelming evidence, he was sentenced to 65 years in a Texas maximum-security prison, effectively a life sentence.
Notable Quote:
"The moment I heard 'life without parole,' I knew my world had collapsed." ([37:05])

Life in Prison: Struggle and Survival

Prison life was a harsh environment where Damon's survival depended on adapting to the brutal realities of incarceration. Initially, he engaged in numerous fights to establish himself, enduring physical and emotional hardships.
Notable Quote:
"Violence was the glue that held prison together." ([66:58])

However, amidst the chaos, Damon sought meaning and purpose, refusing to let his circumstances define him.

Transformation: The Coffee Bean Philosophy

A turning point came when Damon met Muhammad, a seasoned inmate who introduced him to the metaphor of the coffee bean.
Notable Quote:
"In a pot of boiling water, the coffee bean changes the water, not the other way around." ([56:05])

This philosophy became the cornerstone of Damon's transformation. Instead of allowing prison to change him negatively, he chose to become the catalyst for positive change, both for himself and others.

Redemption: Education and Leadership

Determined to turn his life around, Damon pursued education, earning a master's degree in criminal justice while incarcerated. He became a professor at the University of Houston, teaching a unique class on prisons in America based on his firsthand experiences.
Notable Quote:
"Helping others find hope became my mission." ([06:47])

Damon also initiated the "Change Agent Prison Curriculum," focusing on personal development and leadership, further solidifying his role as a positive influence within the prison system.

Release and Continued Impact

After serving seven years, Damon was granted parole in 2015. Free but still under supervision, he dedicated himself to sharing his story, aiming to inspire others to overcome adversity. His collaboration with motivational speaker John Gordon led to the creation of the bestselling book The Coffee Bean, which resonated globally, especially during the 2020 pandemic.
Notable Quote:
"Everyone deserves redemption, and my story is proof that transformation is possible." ([120:38])

Full Circle: Making Amends and Giving Back

Damon reflects on a significant moment when a victim reached out to him with forgiveness, embodying the essence of his redemption journey. He emphasizes the importance of living amends—performing good deeds without expecting anything in return—as a path to healing for both himself and those he harmed.
Notable Quote:
"Grace costs more to give than to receive, but it's essential for true redemption." ([133:01])

Conclusion: A Message of Hope and Empowerment

Damon's story is a testament to the human spirit's capacity for resilience and change. From the depths of addiction and incarceration to becoming a beacon of hope and purpose, his journey underscores the power of mindset and intentional transformation.
Notable Quote:
"The power to change is inside you. Be the coffee bean in your own pot of boiling water." ([105:57])

Listeners are left with an inspiring message: no matter how dire the circumstances, it's possible to rewrite one's story and rise from rock bottom with purpose and grace.

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Key Takeaways

• Identity and Purpose: Losing a central part of one's identity can lead to destructive behaviors, but finding a new purpose is crucial for transformation.
• The Coffee Bean Philosophy: Instead of letting adverse conditions change you negatively, become the agent of positive change.
• Redemption and Amends: True redemption involves making amends and helping others, fostering healing for both oneself and those affected.
• Resilience and Mindset: Maintaining a positive mindset and focusing on personal growth can lead to profound life changes, even in the most challenging environments.

Further Resources

• Books by Michael Bostick:
  • The Coffee Bean
  • Six Dimes and a Nickel

For those seeking inspiration and actionable insights, Damon's journey offers a blueprint for overcoming adversity and fostering personal growth.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Michael Bostick]

Fantastic.

[Lauren Everts]

And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie.

[Michael Bostick]

And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick are bringing you along for the ride.

[Damon West]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential.

[Michael Bostick]

Him and her.

[Lauren Everts]

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential him and her show. We have today an incredible episode, an incredible story today. Today's guest has a real life redemption story. Damon west went From a Division 1 quarterback to meth addict, then became a white collar crime boss in Dallas to a convicted felon serving a life sentence in prison. But that's not where the story ends, it's where it begins. After a life altering conversation in prison, Damon became the Coffee Bean. A man who changes the water he's in instead of letting it change him. Now he's a best selling author, a sought after speaker, and living proof that your worst moment can become your greatest calling. With that, Damon West. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is Skinny Confidential.

[Michael Bostick]

Him and her. When I first got out of prison, you know, look, I live, I'm 40 years old, I just got out of prison. I'm on parole for the rest of my life. I got a job and I'm, I'm making just above minimum wage and I live in my parents spare bedroom. Which way you swiping on that one? Right. That's a tough dating profile, right?

[Damon West]

I'm swiping. No, I actually am swiping. Right, because I want to hear the prison stories.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, but it's a tough dating pro. You live with your parents. You're 40 years old living with your parents. But, but here's the deal. I'm not living in PR anymore, right? So I get out the first night I'm home, I'm putting my little room together. I don't have a cell. I got a. I got a room, right? I'm putting my little room together. I don't have a prison cell anymore. And my mom screams at me from the living room. She's like, damon, get in here and watch this on TV right now. She's screaming right now. Right now. So I run in the living room and I get in front of the TV and she's watching this show called Locked Up. Y' all remember Locked Up?

[Damon West]

Yeah, of course.

[Michael Bostick]

And I'm like, mom, what are you watching? She said, damon, I've been watching Locked up since you got locked up. She says, sit down and tell me what's going on. She said, I can't ever follow what these guys are doing. So, Lauren, every night for, like, the first two months, I'm watching Locked Up, My mom. I'm narrating. These guys are doing. They're making shanks over there. They're doing. They're making hooch over there. My dad. My dad was. My dad was a sports writer for 50 years, Michael. My dad, everything in his life was about sports. So the second night home from prison, we're on the couch, we're watching Sports Center. He hits mute. He leans into me. He said, damon, while you were locked up, I recorded every prison movie that's ever come on tv.

[Damon West]

What's the best one, dad?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, this is what. This is the thing. He was like, man, he was so excited, too. He said, let's watch them all. He said, just tell me who gets it right. Said, we'll do one movie a night. You got time for that? And I'm like, dad, I'm on parole for the rest of my life. I got a lot of time, man. Let's go. So the first night, we watched his favorite prison movie, Cool Hand Luke. And then we watched every movie that's ever been made about prison, Lauren. And I mean, I've seen them all, so I can tell you who actually got it right. There's one movie above all the other movies that got it right. And that movie, the Shawshank Redemption.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, that's like the best movie of all time.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes, and I'm going to tell you why, Michael. I'm convinced that whoever consults on that movie had done a little time before. Because you know what they got right about prison? Prison's a hopeless place. That's why prisons are so dangerous. Because when you have a void of hope, negativity, evil, darkness fills the void. And you don't have to be in a physical prison, right, to be in a world with no hope. You interview people all the time that talk about how they bring hope to other people's lives or how they were once in a seemingly hopeless world. So the title of the movie, the Shawshank Redemption, the redemption part of the title, it's not about the redemption of Andy Dufresne. Remember, Andy, he sentenced to prison. He goes, innocent guy goes to prison for 19 years, tunnels through a wall, swimsuit sewer to get to. To his freedom. The redemption part of the title was about Red, Morgan Freeman's character, because Red had no hope. Andy represented hope in that movie. And. And like, the movie goes on, and Andy is this guy that brings hope in there. These other Guys have no hope. Like Brooks. Remember Brooks, the old man, he gets.

[Lauren Everts]

Out of the bird. He had the bird.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, he had the bird, right? He. He did 50 years. And he made parole. And he lasted two weeks in the free world because he. He couldn't take it. The world caught up to him. He hung himself. He wrote a letter back to the boys of Shawshank, told him what he did and why he did it. And as Andy read that letter out to the men in Shawshank Prison, every man in Shawshank understood why Brooks did what he did, because they had the same hopeless mindset. But it's Red, the narrator, that explains it. He says, you know, Andy, I wouldn't make it out there either, Andy. I'm an institutional man now. Red even says the words out loud. He says, hope is a dangerous thing. But Andy told Red, get busy living or get busy dying. And by the end of the movie, when Red finally gets out, 40 years later, we don't know if Red's gonna make parole. You know, he walks by the pawn shop. The guns are in the window. He stays in the same halfway house room that Brook stayed in. But. But he makes it. He makes it to the rock wall. Remember the rock wall? And he told him to go to. And he finds the letter that Andy left behind. And in that letter were the words that Red needed to hear when Andy said, red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies. If you go back and re watch the end of Shawshank, just knowing what I told you. Now, you listen to the dialogue of the character named Red at the end of the movie versus the dialogue of the character in Red at the beginning movie. Every single sentence that Red says in the last piece of dialogue, the last minute of the show starts off with the same two words. He says, I hope for every sentence, I hope I make it across the border. I hope I see my friend again so I can shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it was in my dreams. I hope, y'. All. It took me going to prison to understand what the movie Shawshank was about. The first time I saw it, in 1994, I'm a freshman in college playing college football. Punk, cocky quarterback. I didn't know what it was about, but 30 years later, on the couch with my dad watching it, I understood fully what she was saying.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm watching again, now that you've explained. I mean, I've seen it like eight times, but I'm going to watch it with this perspective, obviously, I don't have your experience.

[Damon West]

Why is there no hope in prison?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, prison's a place where hope goes to die. I mean, because there's a saying when you get into prison that you're never alone, but you're always lonely. And so what that means is that you're never going to be alone. It's a very communal type environment, but you're never around the people you want to be around. And inside of a prison environment, I mean, it's the hardest place to live. I was sent to a Level 5 maximum security prison in the state of Texas. Level 5 is the highest security level.

[Lauren Everts]

Texas prisons are tough.

[Michael Bostick]

They're tough. They're. Well, there's no air conditioning from what I've heard.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

So it's. And I was on the Gulf coast, so you can imagine how hot it was. Humid, humid. Summertimes, 100 degrees, 100% humidity. And I know that the Mark Styles unit, Beaumont, I know it's one of the toughest prisons in America because when I got out of prison in 2015, I wanted people to take me more serious, right? So I went back to school and got a master's in criminal justice and became a professor at the University of Houston downtown. Get this, teaching a class called Prisons in America. Like, I'm the only professor on the planet to teach a prisons class who lived in prison. So I know a lot about prison.

[Lauren Everts]

Wish I would have done that.

[Damon West]

Oh, man, why didn't I get offered that course?

[Michael Bostick]

I was a textbook. Like, I am the textbook in that class, right? But I mean, prison is the hardest place to do anything in. But whenever my story, I guess the best place to start this place off is July 30, 2008, because that's the day. July 30, 2008, my whole world's going to change. There's these fork in the road days I think people have in life. You have four or five fork in the roads in life where life truly changes, right? For the better, for the worse, because of choices you made. So on July 30, 2008, I'm sitting around this little rundown apartment in Dallas. I'm sitting on this little ratty old couch. And I'm sitting right next to me on the couch today is my meth dealer, this guy named Tex. Now, 2008, I'm not the guy you see in front of you today. I'm a full blown meth addict. I'm the head of an organized crime ring. I'm the crime boss I'm the, the leader of the whole thing. The shot caller.

[Damon West]

What does that mean, though, to someone? Like, really explain that, A shot caller? Yeah. What. What does that mean?

[Michael Bostick]

So you're. I'm the head of the whole organized crime ring. What happened was, is that in 2004, I was a stockbroker in Dallas. And this is after, you know, I played Division 1 college football in the 90s at North Texas. Played quarterback there. I got hurt against A M. How.

[Lauren Everts]

Did you get hurt? Because obviously we've done our research and we've.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

How did like. And your dad now, like, it makes sense. He was a sports writer. You go to Texas? Sports are huge out here.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Your dad was probably big fan, right? Like, did he push you to get into athletics? Just from early age.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah. Well, and I was. You know, Mike, when I started out playing sports, I wasn't really a good athlete. It was when I was about 10 or 11 years old, this baseball coach named John Bass got a hold of me. And Coach Bass, he saw something in me that no one else did and started working with me and told my dad, hey, look, we're going to work out harder. We're going to. We're going to do workouts in the mornings, in the evenings, and. And I just became this incredible athlete overnight. And then I picked up a football and found out I had a cannon for an arm. And I was a three year starting quarterback at a high school in Texas. 5A school, biggest division we had back then. Scholarship to play Division 1 college football at North Texas. And by the time I'm 20, I'm the starting quarterback on a Division 1 team.

[Lauren Everts]

Like, this is a big deal out here.

[Michael Bostick]

This is Texas, man. This is like, you know, my head is this big, man. I thought I had arrived, but again, fork in the roads this July, it was 9-21-96. This is the big fork in the road. Back then we're playing Texas A M. I'm 20. I'm driving my team down the field against the Aggies. Third play of the game. I go down with a career and an injury. Never play college football again.

[Lauren Everts]

What? Like where?

[Michael Bostick]

Separated my shoulder. So I separate my shoulder that day. It's a distal clavicle removal. So they got to go and cut the collarbone out. I come back in the spring and I try to get my job back. And then I cut my Achilles in half. An accident at my house, at my apartment. So now I'm done.

[Lauren Everts]

What does that do to you mentally? Because I imagine that's a Great question. I imagine, like, that is so devastating for somebody that works so hard to get to that position. They think it's going to be their whole life. I imagine you had dreams of, you know, going pro and doing all that, and then when that happens, what. What does that do to you mentally?

[Michael Bostick]

That's a great question, Michael. So my entire identity was wrapped up in being a college football player. And so when that injury happened in 1996, football wasn't just gone. My identity was gone. And I couldn't get it back on track. And I had been. I'd been drinking a lot throughout my life. The first time I ever got a drink in my system, I was 10. So I've been dabbling in alcohol for a long time. And I get up to this fork in the road in life and the football's gone, my identity's gone. And that's when I get into drugs. This is where the hardcore drugs come in. The cocaine, ecstasy. I start popping pills. But I was a pretty functional addict back then, you know, But I couldn't live life on life's terms. That's the hallmark of being an addict, right? And here's what I know about addiction. Addicts give up their goals to meet their behaviors. That's the definition of addiction, by the way. When you give up goals to meet a behavior, you're an addict. And it doesn't have to be drugs or alcohol, right? It can be food, money, clothing, shopping, sex, pornography. The list goes on and on. So I start giving up my goals, but I'm functional. I graduate college, I move off to Washington, D.C. i work in the United States Congress. Then I work for a guy running for president in 2004, moved back to Dallas, and it was at that job as a stockbroker in Dallas. In 04, I was working for UBS, one of the biggest banks in the world. And another broker sees me sleeping at work one day, passed out of sleep at work. He wakes me up. He's like, hey, man, listen. You can't sleep on a job like this. They'll fire you. Come on down the parking garage. I got something that'll pick you up. And that's when I go that day in his sports car in the parking garage. And he had my first hit of meth smoke. Meth for the first time. Instantly, just like that. I mean, it grabs you. It's the most evil, most destructive, most.

[Damon West]

Addictive drug and does have a really weird frequency. That drug, specifically meth. If there's something about evil, it's. It's I don't know why.

[Lauren Everts]

It's a completely unnatural.

[Michael Bostick]

It's made in the lab.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, yeah.

[Damon West]

Why is it so it's like frenetic?

[Lauren Everts]

Well, because if you think about it like, not that, you know, like heroin's in like opium and then you have, you know, poppy and you have cocaine, coca plant, then you have mar, like you have these things. But this is like a completely man made lab chemical product, right?

[Michael Bostick]

This is, this is completely man made stuff.

[Damon West]

So what did it feel like the first time you did it?

[Michael Bostick]

Like, like every hair on my body stood up and. And I was into cocaine at the time. The last time I ever did cocaine was the. The time before I did meth for the first time.

[Lauren Everts]

Because you were like, I'm done with that. This is the thing.

[Michael Bostick]

You could have put me in a room with a mountain of the stuff I never would have touched again. I never have touched it again. Because meth was the ultimate high. It was a cleaner high. You're up for days at a time. You feel like it's the wonder drug at first, right? You get all this stuff done, but what goes up must come down. And like, I'm up for three or four days at a time. I'm down, I'm missing work and I get fired. I lose my job at UBS and 18 months later, I'm living on the streets of Dallas like I'm homeless. I've smoked all, everything. That's how I did it. I smoked meth, smoked it all up. I'm living in dope houses, I'm sleeping in cars. I become a criminal. And it was petty crimes at first. Shoplifting, breaking into cars, breaking into storage units. Then it escalates to the very serious crime of home burglary.

[Lauren Everts]

And you're doing this just to feed the habit?

[Michael Bostick]

Just to feed the habit, man. I'm a dope fiend.

[Damon West]

And you're. There's no girlfriend involved. There's nothing.

[Michael Bostick]

No, nothing involved. Nothing. I mean, I'm. Some of this. I'm homeless, right? But, you know, once I start doing the burglary stuff, I start bringing in enough money to like, get into this little crappy apartment. This is going to be the crappy apartment the cops get me in years later. But here's what I want to say to, is that when I broke into people's homes, I didn't just steal property. When I broke into my victim's homes, my victims, I stole something way more valuable from a victims. I stole their sense of security, y'. All. And that's Something I, I can't give back. I can't change what I did to them. I can't fix what I did to my victims. The state of Texas, as a law, you cannot apologize to the victim of your crimes in Texas. They will send you back to prison if you reach out to make an apology. If you reach out to apologize on a podcast or anything like that, they'll send you back to prison in Texas.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, what's wild, even when you think, I mean, listen, we live in Texas now, we grew up in California. Live in Texas. Like, that's a ballsy maneuver to go into people's homes in Texas.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah, man.

[Damon West]

Yeah, because people have guns.

[Michael Bostick]

But it's the dope. It's a dope. It's a. You're a, you're an addict. You'll. You'll do it. Anything, anything you have to do to get your house there.

[Lauren Everts]

Even like a thought or inclination, like, hey, I could get blown away in here. You just, like, it's. You're so in it that you don't even think about that.

[Michael Bostick]

So here's the deal. None of my victims were ever home. And this is what we're going to find out. When I go to trial and I go to prison, My crimes are considered non aggravated crimes in Texas. Non aggravated means that there's not a physical victim of my crime. This is a big point, because if you have an aggravated crime in Texas, you have to do a lot more time than a non aggravated, non violent offender. I'm a non violent criminal.

[Damon West]

How would you choose these homes? And how did you know they weren't home?

[Michael Bostick]

Okay, one of the first burgers. And this is something I've never shared on a podcast the size of yours, right? So one of the first burglaries I ever did. Because listen, you have a, you have a survival instinct in your body, a preservation of life instinct. It's pretty strong, right? You can't choke yourself out and kill yourself. Yourself, Right? There's things your body does to preserve itself. And so even though I'm whacked out on meth and I start doing these burgers, I don't want to get caught. I don't want to go down. So one of the first burglaries I ever do, I break into a US Post office, I steal a mailman uniform, mailman bag, mailman hat. Now I'm a mailman. I go around neighborhoods with impunity, right? Does everybody know what their mailman is?

[Damon West]

Oh, my God. Wait, can't you just buy a Costume on Amazon. That's a mailman or it's not the same.

[Michael Bostick]

I do. I wasn't thinking about it. I don't think Amazon was what it is. I mean, this is. This is 2005, 2006.

[Damon West]

Okay. So you have to, like, get an official.

[Lauren Everts]

Stop trying to optimize this for the crowd.

[Damon West]

Okay, Go ahead.

[Michael Bostick]

Go ahead. No, she's like. She's like, can we sell mailman? She's like, this is good. Can we sell it now? So I break into a post office, I steal a mailman uniform, and that's my first cover. When I go into neighborhoods, I'm the mailman, right? I can break. I can go anywhere. I would sit outside some of these condos in uptown. These burglaries really take place, for the most part, in uptown Dallas. You ever been to uptown Dallas? Yep. Real nice part of Dallas. Right? That's where I was living. I was a stockbroker uptown before I became homeless. And so I'd sit outside some of these condos, and I'd wait for the real mailman to leave. And after he would leave, I'd grab my mailman outfit, my mailman bag, and I'd go into the building, and people are getting the gate for you, man. You're the mailman. You got a bag full of goodies for everybody, right? And inside a lot of these buildings, I have a kiosk that the mailman has the key to go inside. On the outside, you got your key to your one little box. You know how you live in a condo, you got keys to your little box, but in the inside of that room, it's all these boxes are wide open. And some of those boxes have stacks of mail. Somebody's probably not home. Even in some of those boxes, there'd be a note that says, out of town from this state to this date, hold our mail. So once I was inside the mail room, I was in the mothership, and I would find out my victims like that. Now, there were other ways of finding out victims. Once you get inside these condo buildings and you get access to them. Anything above the first floor. If you saw a bunch of flyers and packages and newspapers in front of someone's door, they're not home because their back doors to a patio that's at second floor up. Right.

[Damon West]

So you specifically targeted people who were not home.

[Michael Bostick]

100. I didn't ever want to run into anybody, Lauren. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I'm a dope fiend, and that's when people are on here's what I believe. I believe, for the most part, addicts are sick people that do bad things, not the other way around. I don't think they're bad people that do sick things for the most part. You got bad people out there. I was a sick person doing bad things. I was in my addiction, and I would do anything to get hot. Now, look, I look at it now, you know, I've got a wife. I've got a stepdaughter. I've got a house. I just built my mom a house and my property. She lives with me now. I can't imagine somebody doing to me what I did to all these other people, Right? And so I know. I know what I did to my victims was terrible. And I mean, but I can't. I can't change that now. And like I said, Texas, you can't apologize to your victims. Later on in this podcast, we're going to get around to a victim that reached out to me. It's actually a story in my new book, but we'll save that for later on. We're going to work up to that. But these burglaries are going on. You know, it starts off with me with the mailman outfit finding my victims. Then I got a crew of other meth addicts. There's about a dozen of us. There's men, there's women, There's. Some of us are younger, some of us are older. There's black, there's white. Because addiction doesn't discriminate, right? Addiction doesn't care who you are, where you come from, when it got. It's got you. Y' all know addicts, right? Sure.

[Lauren Everts]

We've. And we've interviewed many on this show in our. In our personal lives. We've had, you know, here's what I say. I said this yesterday on the phone with a friend of mine who's in recovery. Like, whether you're personally in it or not, you're likely touched by somebody close to you that's in it or is going through it or has. Is in the 100. It's such a wide, vast issue that, you know, human beings face 100%.

[Michael Bostick]

Michael. I tell people some. Some similar. I tell people addiction touches everybody in this country, whether you're the addict, the victim of addict, the friend of an addict, the family member of an addict, the taxpayer. You're just paying into an overburdened criminal justice system that has no idea how to handle addiction. Addiction touches us all. It's all of our problem at this point. But we start breaking into these condo buildings, and we start breaking into houses. The burglaries go on for almost three years in the uptown neighborhood of Dallas and beyond. I mean, it's. It's pretty much. And I'm. And I'm taking stolen property. You know, some of these condos we're breaking into. I'm. You know, people that go out of town like that, they leave their car behind in the parking garage. And when I'm in there, the breaking in, I'll find the key fob for the car that's left behind, go in the parking garage, find that car, that BMW, that Mercedes, that Land Rover, and I'll load it up with things you don't want to keep from a burglary. Checkbook, credit card, laptops. Have my partner in crime, Dustin, follow me out to these neighborhoods. I'd rather police be looking in, drop that car off with the engine running at a car wash. It's real busy on the weekend, window blaring. I mean, window rolled down, music blaring. Those cars didn't sit out there for five minutes. Probably in those neighborhoods, somebody hopped in the wheel and said, hey, man, white boy left his car behind. Look in the back seat, there's credit cards. Let's go buy some beer. Let's go buy some cigarettes at that store right there.

[Damon West]

So you almost made it look like it was someone else that stole 100%.

[Michael Bostick]

I wanted to throw the trail off, away from me.

[Damon West]

There's a lot of strategy that went into what you did. I mean, this is not like someone just like stealing something and walking away.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I mean, remember, I don't want to get caught. I mean, I have a preservation of life instinct that's pretty strong. And I'm not a dumb guy. I mean, you know, I had a fifth grade teacher told me, you're a leader, Damon. You'll always be a leader. You're either going to lead people the right way or the wrong way. And she was right. Ms. Greenberg was right on both, you know, because I was a good leader at one point when I was the quarterback of a football team in college.

[Damon West]

So when you're stealing all these credit cards and checkbooks, etc, in the car, what are you getting out of it before you leave it for someone else to pretend like it looked like it was them?

[Michael Bostick]

Nothing. I don't want anything to do with that car.

[Damon West]

You get something off? Yeah. What are you getting?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, we would take stuff from people. We stole people's property. Property. Like jewelry? Property. Like appliances, even. I mean, they're out of town, you know, you take their appliances sometimes you had it depends on what the dope man once. Whatever dope man you're dealing with. So these theft and meth go together like rats and trash. That's an axiom. You can take that to the bank, by the way. Theft and meth go together like rats and trash. So once these dope dealers understand that Damon's got this burglary game going pretty well. And he's got a crew. They're giving me like list of things they want. And the more I can hit things on that list, the better dope I get. That's all it's about. I don't have anything to show for this. July 30, 2008, y'. All, the day that I'm sitting on the couch smoking meth with my meth dealer tax, I'm telling text that day, text, you don't want to be here, ma'. Am. The cops are closing in on me. The end is near. Ten days before this, they picked up my partner in crime, Dustin. Dustin knew everything about our operation. My right hand man, he knew it all. And he's in the custody of the Dallas Police Department. So they've got my partner in crime in custody, which means it's only a matter of time before they're going to have me in custody. And just as I pass that pipe back to Tex that day, the window on my right blows out and shatters and tumbling across the living room floor is a little canister going end over end, smoking on one side. Man. I lock eyes at this thing and I try to get out of there as fast as I can, but the flashbang grenade blew up my face. I mean, it was a bright white light. Loud noise blew me back on the couch.

[Damon West]

What is that?

[Michael Bostick]

Flashbang? Flashbang is. Go ahead, Mike.

[Lauren Everts]

No, it's like a. It's like almost like a. Like you know what a grenade is, right?

[Damon West]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

You throw this object and it has this big loud bang and flash and it disorients the person.

[Damon West]

But is it from the cops?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, yeah, it's now swat.

[Lauren Everts]

It's a non lethal way to disorient some.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, Dallas swat. I'm. I'm having a conversation smoking meth with this guy. And SWAT knows where I am. They've been watching me. And that flashbang grenade breaks the window. I know what it is. I've never been in a raid before, but I've heard, I've seen it on tv, right?

[Lauren Everts]

You ever played Call of Duty?

[Michael Bostick]

I know I've never played Call of Duty, but so, you know, it's like Michael said, it's very disorienting. Your ears are ringing. You can't see anything because the light was. It's such a bright light.

[Lauren Everts]

It flashes super bright, so you can't see. Imagine, like, you know, when you get night and you turn the light on and all of a sudden you can't see in the night, in the dark.

[Damon West]

Like, what you do to me. You literally flashbang me every morning with the closet light.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm gonna start saying flashbang.

[Damon West]

Your dad woke you up with a flashbang for the last 21 years.

[Michael Bostick]

But, I mean.

[Lauren Everts]

But if anyone wants to experience, you just go wake up in the dark in the middle of the night, turn the lights on and off real quick. That's.

[Michael Bostick]

That's. But it's like a hundred times brighter because it's a phosphorus glow, right? So when I could see again and I could hear again, man, there's a cop stand, he's got his boot on my chest, he's got a gun in my eye, assault rifles in my eye socket, his fingers on the trigger, and he's screaming, don't move. Don't move. And I'm like, don't worry. Don't worry. Right? You got me. And I'm telling him, man, it's over. It's over. It's done. You got me. And one of the cops comes in and he screams out loud, we got him. We got the uptown burglar. That's what they called me. I was the uptown burglar. This is before they had a face to put with it. And they finally realized that they got the mastermind of the entire thing.

[Lauren Everts]

And so did they figure that out by all your, like, kind of people that they caught just flipping on you and saying, like, that's the guy they wanted to plead?

[Michael Bostick]

I mean, yeah, we. We made a lot of mistakes. Everybody makes a lot of mistakes.

[Damon West]

Like what?

[Michael Bostick]

All right, so about six months before this goes down, my partner in crime, Dustin, he's got a. He kept one of the stolen cars from the robertaries, right? A Mazda RX8 calls me up. This is February. I could tell you the date. February 27, 2008. Calls me up, panicked about 4:30pm dude, man, they're over here. They got my car. I was like, who is over there? He said, the police, I guess they're out there towing my car. Well, he lives out by DFW Airport. And I'm like, what police department? He said, I don't Know, it's. It's a guy in a cowboy hat, a sports coat. He's got boots on and jeans. I was like, what police department is that? He said, I don't know. I said, well, get the number of the tow truck placed on the side, man, that they're. They're towing. This is a stolen car from a burglary, right? And I'm like, what's in the car? He said, man, my burglary bag. He carried a gun. He said, my gun's in there and my fingerprints on the dashboard. I didn't carry a gun. I wasn't. I'm not a gun guy. I never have been a gun guy. So guns weren't a thing for me. But he has a gun in this car burglary bag. My fingerprints are in there. And I'm like, dustin, man, we got to get that bag out of that car. Find out what to find out what tow yard is going to. So he gets the number off the tow yard. Thirty minutes later, he calls me up. He's more panicked. He said, dude, I called the tow yard and the Texas Rangers answered the phone. They said, that's our car now. We're coming to get you next. Hung up on him. Oh, I'm like, shit. So this is late in the day. I'm like, all right. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm trying to, like, wire myself down. I get high as a kite smoking meth. That. That evening I go to Dustin's place. I was like, give me the key to the. To the vehicle. He said, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to go to the police impound. I'm going to get that bag out of that car. He said, man, that's nuts. It's crazy. I said, we don't have a choice. I said, they go in that car in the morning. It's late when they got the car, it's later in the day. So I'm betting on the fact they didn't go through it, right? You put a car in a police impound, you lock it up, it's going to be there tomorrow, right? So I was like, give me the key. I'm going to go there and I'm going to. I'm going to try to get this bag out. And so I go to this. This impound yard where the Texas Rangers put that car, and I drive around it. I can't see in it. Part of it's got some woods back there, but I got night vision goggles. So I'm like, all right, so across the street from the impound yard, there's a neighborhood. I find a house that's vacant. You know, I can see there's. There's no furniture in there. So I break into that house and I open the garage up, and that's where I'm going to run back to when I get this bag out of this car. So all I take with me that night is a screwdriver set of flat, a set of night vision goggles, and the key fob for his car. So I go into the woods on the backside of this, this impound lot. I'm trying to find this car. Night vision won't work because there's too many lights coming from over there, right? Let's say it's like a baseball diamond, this impound yard, all right? The gate that opens up where they bring the cars in, that's home plate. Now, if you go down the first baseline, there's going to be a guard shack right there. And imagine inside that baseball diamond, there's cars all over the infield, there's cars all over the outfield. And you have a track. That's first base, second base, you have baselines that the tow trucks drive the cars around. This place is huge. So let's say it's center field. There's a tree out there on the other side of the fence for the impound yard. So I climb up this tree, real high tree. I get up there and I start looking around the impound yard. And right underneath me in center field is the Mazda RX8. Backed into the spot, I'm like, man, there it is. So I drop in. It's about a 20 foot drop. And I drop in, get in the car. I look inside the car. Burglary bag is in there. It's still there. The cops hadn't gotten it yet. And then the idea hits me. I'm gonna steal the whole car. Why not just take the whole car while I'm here, right? Start the engine up, I drive it around between second and third. Then I turn the base corner between third and home, and I shut the car down. And I'm waiting for the next tow truck to come in with a vehicle. And when that tow truck comes in, I'm hitting the gas and I'm going out that gate. And so here I hear the gate, the gates turning up, you know, I see the front of the tow truck coming in, and as soon as I see the front of the vehicle, it's towing in, I punch it and I'm Not. We're not far away. I can still see the driver of the tow truck's eyes. His eyes are wide. He hits the gas and, man, I go in right behind him and I hang a hard right and I spin out and I look up, I'm in. I'm in the parking lot, man. I stole the whole car back from the cops. So I drove this car out to this neighborhood, backed into that garage and I cleaned the car up. And that was the biggest mistake on. You asked what mistakes?

[Damon West]

Why? Because. What happened?

[Michael Bostick]

Because I kicked a hornet's nest. I mean, once you still got their attention. Once. Yeah. Once you steal a big, crucial piece of evidence like that back, there's no way they're going to let you go off of this thing. Now, the clock was ticking backwards at that point.

[Damon West]

And is it because you're on meth or is it because you haven't slept that you make this decision? Or is it just because, like, it was a million things?

[Michael Bostick]

It's a million things. Criminals are stupid for the most part. Criminals are stupid. We always make mistakes.

[Damon West]

What about Tony Soprano? Don't talk about him like that.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, look, here's the thing about Tony Soprano that I would tell you that you're going to find in this story. Tony Soprano was morally ambiguous, right? We love Tony Soprano. Right. He had a family. He took his daughter to soccer practice. But Tony was a dangerous guy too, wasn't he?

[Damon West]

He's my celebrity crush.

[Michael Bostick]

People could die around Tony, but Tony is a good guy.

[Damon West]

Still loved him. There was an endearing side.

[Michael Bostick]

Exactly. He's morally ambiguous.

[Damon West]

I think I'm obsessed with that, though. There's something to me that's like, he's a criminal and he's like, you could die around him, but you're you. He's endearing. I like that.

[Michael Bostick]

You're gonna love this story today. You're gonna love this story.

[Damon West]

Am I gonna change my crush to you?

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, no, no, Michael, don't worry about it. No, no. But this story about Damon west, you know, we're in the weeds right now about the bad stuff, but there's going to be a corner that I turn, and when I turn that corner and the things start happening. It's about how. How I've been able to transform the world because of what happened in my life. I be. I was a morally ambiguous guy too.

[Damon West]

Or I'm not ready for you to turn the corner because I still am going to go back to my question is a shot caller we got.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, the shot caller is the Leader of the whole group.

[Lauren Everts]

He was basically calling the shots of.

[Michael Bostick]

Where Tony Soprano is a shot caller. How about that?

[Damon West]

Okay. Okay, I can. I can deal with that.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay. Tony's the shot caller.

[Damon West]

When they went after you, they knew you were the shot caller.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's how they figured that out. So they've got a lineup with about a dozen other meth addicts that are involved in this thing. And everybody, for the most part's got the same backstory, same look. But then there's this guy in there, right? This middle class white guy from a great two parent home, College quarterback, worked in Congress, worked on Wall Street. This is our guy. This is the leader, right? Remember Ms. Greenberg told me in fifth grade you were born to be a leader? That's the guy in my trial, when I go to trial. We'll get to that in a little bit. There's a pyramid up with everybody's pictures. My. My picture is at the top of the pyramid. That's how you know you're the shot caller. When you're at the top of the pyramid. Like that is it.

[Damon West]

Do you like being the shot caller at the time? Are you like, I'm at the top of the pyramid?

[Michael Bostick]

No. No, Lauren. And like, here's the thing. This wasn't like organized crime like you're thinking about like a New Jersey mob, right? This is. This is a bunch of dope fiends breaking into houses to steal for dope.

[Lauren Everts]

Are they able to build a stronger case, though, if they position it this kind of way?

[Michael Bostick]

Great question, Mich. Yes. Organized crime, when you. When you attach organized crime, when you make it a RICO case, because that's what I went down for is rico. When you make it rico, man, it. First of all, it enhances your degree of felony by one degree. It's an enhancer statute. So it went from being a burglary case, which is a 2 to 20 in Texas, to a first degree felony, which is 5 to life. So that's what I'm looking at. They take me that day, July 30, 2008, they arrest me, they book me into Dallas county jail. My bond is set at 1.44 million W. It's the biggest. There's 9,000 people in Dallas County Jail. This is one county in Texas, by the way. 9,000 people. It's one of the biggest jails in America. It's like a city inside this place. Think about a place where 9,000 people live, right? No one else at the time. Not murderers, not child molesters, not rapists. Had a bond that high. My crime. My crimes are not like those crimes, y'. All. My crimes are property crimes.

[Damon West]

Why is your. Why is it so high? Why is it higher than a child molester? I don't understand that, Lauren.

[Michael Bostick]

You'd have to ask. You have to ask the people involved with that to understand. Here's what I think. So my. When I get arrested, I've got one organized crime indictment hanging over me, and the bond was set at a quarter million dollars. That night, I get on the phone, talk about mistakes. Here's another mistake I made. I think I can raise. Because you have to get 10% of your bond raised to get out. I think I can raise 25,000. So I start calling people from the dope world, people from the crime world. Hey, man, you owe me money for this job, man. Come get me out. Cops are listening to my calls, and they're going and picking up other people. And they're turning state's evidence against me because I led the cops to them. Oh. Oh, my God, Lauren. Criminals are stupid.

[Damon West]

That's a big one.

[Michael Bostick]

That's a big one.

[Damon West]

You didn't realize they were listening?

[Michael Bostick]

I knew they were listening, but I wanted out. I was scared to death. I was in jail. I wanted. I want to get high again.

[Damon West]

You didn't want to call your mom and dad?

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, I did call my mom and.

[Damon West]

Dad, and they were like, that's. You're on your own.

[Michael Bostick]

A serious phone call. Like, you want to talk about that? Sure. So I call my mom and dad and y' all before.

[Lauren Everts]

But did they know you were struggling up at this point or.

[Michael Bostick]

No, they knew something was wrong. But they live. And they live in southeast Texas. I'm up in Dallas, so south. They're six hours away from me. You know, outside of coming and kidnapping me, they can't stop what's going on in my life. So the first time I call home from Dallas county jail, my dad answers the phone. Now, my mom and my dad. My dad died two years ago. They were married for 55. Oh, that's all right. I appreciate that, man. But he got to see me turn around. That's part of the good story. That's the other part we're going to talk about later. But my mom, my dad, been married for 55 years. I came from a great family. I got an older brother, younger brother, big Catholic family home, right? My dad answers the phone. He's screaming and crying. I've never heard my dad cry. How do we go so wrong? What we do wrong with you how we mess up so bad. My mom gets on the phone. My mom's a nurse, and my mom can compartmentalize the pain. She gets on the phone, she's like, baby, listen, your dad can't talk right now. I've never seen him like this before. But we need to have a serious conversation. We need to talk. She said, you need to understand that we love you unconditionally. There's nothing you could do to make us not love you, Damon. She said, that was the deal we made with God when he loaned you to us. She said, do you understand what I'm saying to you? I'm like, yeah. And she said, good, because we just gave you back to God. She said, there's nothing we can do for you no more, Damon. You're now a captive audience to God, and you better start listening to him. Then she asked me a question. She said, do you. Do you remember the prayer plaque that I had on your wall as a kid growing up? Now, y', all, my mom is one of those moms that has prayer plaques and crosses all over the house, man. You can't escape God. My mom's house, it's everywhere, man. But she wants to know about the prayer plaque that was above my bed on Roanoke street where I grew up in Port Arthur, Texas. And I'm on this dope, man. I can't think straight. I'm like, mom, what are you talking about? And she said, baby, it was footprints in the sand. She said, do you remember the story of footprints in the sand? I said, mom, I don't know what you're talking about. So my mom, that night on the jailhouse phone, she patiently and lovingly retold me the story of footprints in the sand about a guy walking the beach with God. She said, they're walking the beach or watching a video of his life play on the sky. And every time something good at man's life happened, there was two sets of footprints. Footprints walking side by side. Things are going well. But when the bad stuff in life happened, where there's pain, there's hurt, there's suffering, there's loss. When he loses his football career, he saw one set of footprints. And finally he couldn't take it. So he calls God out. Hey, God. What's up, man? Every time something good in my life happens, there's two sets of footprints walking side by side. But when the bad stuff happens, you abandon me. Why did you abandon me? Why do I see one set of footprints? And that's when she said, damon, every time you saw one. One set of footprints. God didn't abandon you. He carried you. She said, get on God's back, Damon. She said, there's only one set of footprints in a jail cell. There's not yours. She said, get on God's back. I don't want to lose my son. And, man, I'm not in the mind frame to listen to my mom. I mean, I start praying, but I'm praying to get out of jail. So I get high again. The addict's prayer, right? All I want. All I care about is getting high again, y'. All. I'm facing a life sentence in a Texas prison for an organized crime charge. The evidence is so overwhelming against me. I'm guilty of everything they said. I got a $1.4 million bond at this point, and all I'm hoping to do is get probation so I can get out and get high again. May 18, 2009, 10 months after that arrest by SWAT team. It's the sixth and final day of my trial. And y', all a six day trial for crimes where no one got physically hurt. It means the evidence of my guilt is overwhelming. And they got me, y'. All.

[Lauren Everts]

And there was no opportunity to avoid trial or take a. There was.

[Michael Bostick]

They made me a plea bargain offer of. It's either 40 years or 50 years.

[Damon West]

And there's no meth in jail at this point. So you're still.

[Michael Bostick]

There wasn't any I could find. I was looking for it left and right. I was detoxing. I tell people all the time. I'm sober, I'm in recovery. I work a 12 step program. Recovery been working. It says I was in prison. I still go to two to three meetings every week. But at that point, I hadn't even hit rock bottom yet, y'. All. And I'm in jail and I'm. All I care about is getting high. But rock bottom. What happened for me on May 18, 2009? It's the sixth and final day of that trial. So the jury gets the case, and the jury goes to deliberate for 10 minutes. Oh, oh, is that bad?

[Damon West]

How long do you want him to deliberate for?

[Michael Bostick]

You want to deliberate for hours? Days if possible.

[Lauren Everts]

That means, like, everyone's a guilty. He done.

[Michael Bostick]

Let's get out of here, man. This guy's guilty. Let's just send him to prison. I get back, Lauren, check this out. I'll tell you how bad it was. I get back in the. It was Maybe it was 15 minutes, right? I get back in the courtroom and one of my lawyers looked at me. She said, brace yourself. This is going to be bad. And I'm like, how bad? She said, well, that while the jury is gone for that brief 10, 15 minutes, they sent a note into the judge from the jury room. They wanted to know if they could give you life without parole. Y'. All.

[Damon West]

Why. Why is it so intense? I mean, listen, I'm not saying, like, what you didn't do. I just think, like.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, Lauren, Texas is not the most lenient.

[Damon West]

Yeah, but there's people that have done, like, crazy things to other people that I've never even heard this.

[Michael Bostick]

No doubt. This is crazy. No, and I mean, like, you're gonna hear on the other end of the story about the course correction that that that sentence got. But. And I asked her that day, I was like, no. I said, what did they. What did the judge say? The judge said, you can give him life, but you can't give him life without parole. Now, y', all, life without parole is capital punishment. That's the mindset of this jury. How do we get rid of this guy forever? And the judge calls the court back in, and he reads my sentence out loud. He said, damon Joseph West. By the way, your name's Joseph, too. I know that from listening to your show. I'm a big fan.

[Lauren Everts]

So he said, strong Catholic name.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, Strong Catholic name. Yeah, yeah. It was from the Rick Caruso conversation I was listening to. Yeah. But Judge Snipes reads my sentence out loud. He said, damon Joseph west, you are hereby sentence to 65 years in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. Lauren, 65 years in Texas is a life sentence. They stopped calculating time in Texas at 60 years. 60 and above his life. Anytime you hear a jury say life or 85 or 65, they mean 60.

[Damon West]

That sounds like a personal vendetta. There's something, like, weird with that, though.

[Michael Bostick]

So here's what I understand now. I understand now that juries will con. I went back to school and got that master's of criminal justice. I learned a lot about juries when I got my master's degree. There's one or two reasons why jury sentence people to a lot of time or both. One is that they're afraid of the person and they want to get rid of them because they're fearful of that person in society. Again, two is that they're angry at that person or both. Right. The jury was mad at me. I wasn't. They weren't afraid of me. I wasn't a physical, violent. I wasn't violently. I never hurt anybody. Before.

[Damon West]

Right, but how are they not mad like that at. And I don't know if this is ignorant. How are they not mad at, like the child molester or the murderer? I don't understand that. That's what.

[Michael Bostick]

That's.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, I think it's case by case.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't think we want to blanketly say that every jury's not mad at.

[Michael Bostick]

But. And here's the deal. I want to say this for everybody here. I deserve to go to prison. I did the crimes and I got the time. Whenever you break the social contract like that, Lauren, you put yourself in a position where you give the power to a jury, give the power to a judge. And if I don't do all those things, I don't end up in Judge Snipes courtroom to get that verdict that day. So I did the things he said. Did I get too much time? Yeah. I mean, you could probably look at it and say 65 years for property crimes. It's a lot. And again, you'll hear on the back end that. That got. There was people that noticed that, we'll put it that way. But yeah, look, I earned my sentence. I got my time. 65 years of the life sentence, or like the book, six dimes and a nickel. That's what they call it in prison terms. Every 10 years is a dime, five years is a nickel.

[Damon West]

Six dimes and a nickel. That's what that means.

[Michael Bostick]

That's what that means in prison terms, 65 years.

[Damon West]

Do you go into all the boys and say, I got six dimes and a nickel.

[Michael Bostick]

I didn't have to. They saw it on tv. It was a high profile case. So right after the trial was over, they rushed me out of the courtroom.

[Lauren Everts]

Wait, pause real quick. What is going. What goes through your mind when you hear that sentence?

[Michael Bostick]

Man, the first thing that went through my head, my parents heard that. That's the first thing. Like, my parents are in the front row. They were. They were there for the whole six days of trial, man. They listened to all the overwhelming evidence, man. But everything starts happening fast. Like, you know, it just like in the movies, man. They get you out of there fast. They handcuff me, they drag me out of there.

[Lauren Everts]

Is it like, almost like you can't believe it?

[Michael Bostick]

I'm in stunned disbelief that I just got life right? I mean, because I figured I was going to get. I knew I was going to prison. I figured I'd get 40 years maybe, you know, that was one of the offers. Right. So 40, 50 years, but 65, I got the max. In Texas, the maximum sentence they can give you is 60. And the maximum amount of fine they can give you is 10,000. The jury gave me 65, which is really 60, and they gave me a $10,000 fine. They maxed me out, man, threw me away. So they get me out of the courtroom. They put me in this little side rooms, got a bulletproof glass. They told me to wait. A few minutes later, my mom and my dad are escorted in on the other side of the glass. They feel sorry for my parents. My parents just watch their son get life. And I came from a great family, right? So they're. They're giving me one last visit with them. And I have this critical conversation, this very crucial conversation. My mom, my dad can't talk, so my mom talks and she's telling me, she's like, baby, debts in life demand to be paid. And you just got hit with one hell of a bill from the state of Texas. But you did everything they said you did. So you're going to go and pay the debt to society. She said, you owe Texas that debt, but now you owe your father and I debt too, because we gave you all the opportunity to love and support, to be anything in life. So here's the debt you're going to pay to us when you go to prison. You will not get in one of these white hate groups, one of these Aryan brotherhood type gangs, because you're scared because you're the minority in there. She said, you were never raised to be a racist. You're not starting that stuff now. She said, you will not get any tattoos while you're inside that prison. That's why you see no ink on my skin. I spent almost 10 years in a Level 5 maximum security. No ink, no tattoos.

[Damon West]

Is that a big deal for people that don't understand Lauren, they want to.

[Michael Bostick]

Tattoo every inch your body in the joint. These guys were relentless when I was in there. They're like, man, west, let me put a tatt on you. You got to get a tat. You're in prison, man. I tell them the same thing every time. I'm like, dude, I can't do it, man. My mom said, no.

[Damon West]

That's a good excuse, though. Like, if I'm like a big gang member in prison, that's maybe the only excuse that I would let slide.

[Michael Bostick]

Since I know how much you love prison, I brought some good prisoners prison stories for you.

[Damon West]

Here's have a lot of.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's a little caveat about prison that you're going to really Love. All those guys in prison gave me a pass on the tattoo thing because it came from my mother.

[Damon West]

There's the endearing side.

[Michael Bostick]

I'll put the professor hat on now. The busiest visitation day of the year in prisons all over America. Mother's Day.

[Damon West]

Yeah. Because let me tell you something. Moms love their boys no matter what. I would be, like, waiting outside with, like, posters that's like, go town the line.

[Lauren Everts]

Let's hope we don't get there ever.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I hope you don't ever get there. Right. I hope that. But the line outside the gate on the prison every. I mean, there's mothers lined up outside of every prison in America on Mother's Day. And my mom and my dad, when I go to prison, they live about 10 miles away from the prison where I'm at, so they come see me all the time. The only time I never saw my parents in prison was Mother's Day weekend. My mom would always say, we're not going to come visit you that weekend because we're going to leave that table for some other mother and her son. So the guys all gave me a pass on the tattoo thing because it came from my mom.

[Damon West]

What else did your mom say? That she were going to pay dad on to her.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's the rest of the conversation today. She said, damon, no gangs, no tattoos. She said, you come back as the man that we raised or don't come back at all.

[Damon West]

Good for her.

[Michael Bostick]

And I'm like. And she's like, do you understand the debt you're about to pay to us? And I'm stunned. I'm like, yeah, Mom, I got it. But what do I know about prison, y'? All? I've never been to. I'm a white, middle class guy in America. I don't. I don't know why it's been to prison at this point.

[Lauren Everts]

It's terrifying.

[Michael Bostick]

I mean, yeah. So I get back to my pot in Dallas County Jail. I've got two months before the prison bus comes to get me. And I'm frantically asking every guy that's been to prison before, how am I gonna survive? What am I gonna do? And every guy I'm talking to, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, they all say the same thing. You have to get into a gang. It said, you can't survive without a gang. They said, the gang is your family now. But there was this one guy that was so different, y'. All. This older black man named Muhammad. Now, Muhammad's what you call a career criminal in and out of prison his entire life. But he's the most positive guy I've ever met in my life. Has a smile on his face everywhere he goes. You couldn't knock the smile, Muhammad's face. And every morning he comes to my cell, to my balcony, and he picks me up like a ray of sunshine. That dark place with this positive energy. So one morning, Muhammad comes up to my bunk. He's got a cup of coffee in his hands. Had a smile on his face. He said, west, I've been watching you. I've been watching how you're dealing with these knuckleheads and these dummies, talking about, you got to get into a gang. He said, don't listen to these fools. He said, you want to keep the promise you made to your mom and your dad? Let me tell you what prison's really going to be like. So he tells me the first thing you need to understand about prison. Prison's all about race. He said, race runs the whole institution inside of a prison. He said, that's the way all the races want it. Everybody splits in their own racial group. That's how you avoid a racial war. He said, now when you walk in the door, the white gangs get the first dibs on you because you're white. And he starts naming them off. The Aryan Brotherhood, the Aryan Circle, the White Knights, the Woods. He said, you fight all the white gangs first if you survive the white gangs. Now you're fighting black gangs.

[Damon West]

Wait, like, you have to go in and fight them for your life.

[Michael Bostick]

You have to.

[Damon West]

How are you one person supposed to fight a huge gang of men?

[Michael Bostick]

You do it one at a time. Well, most of the fights are one on one, but, I mean, when I found out, when I got there, not every fight would go on.

[Damon West]

How do you know how to fight a gang member?

[Michael Bostick]

You just fight. It's just. It's just a normal fight, Warren. I mean, you just fight for your life.

[Lauren Everts]

Is it just like fight? Like, are they looking for people that won't fight?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. What they're looking for is for you to join the gang because you're getting recruit. I'm getting recruiting age. I'm 33 when I go to prison, right? So I'm still in that gang recruiting age. I mean, had I been 40 years old, going to prison, no one's going to mess with me. If I was, I'll just mind my own business. You're too old to be in a gang, but at 33, you're still gang recruiting age. And that's what Muhammad's telling me, man. He Said, man, you're about to walk into the worst environment in the world and everybody's going to come after you. You made a promise to your mom, and if you want to keep the promise, you're going to have to fight your way out of this. That's the only way out. So he's telling me, you fight the white gangs first you survive the white gangs. Now you're fighting black gangs, and the white gangs send the white gangs after you. The Crips, the Bloods, the Gangster Disciples. He said, they're all going to tee off on you because they all want this white guy to get with his own race and his own kind where he belongs. He said, everybody will work in concert to get you back to the white gangs where you're supposed to be. But he told me, he said, if you survive all that, and you can't survive you, you can survive all that. He said, you'll earn the right to walk alone. He said, the strongest man in prison always walks alone. He told me the truth about fighting. He said, you don't have to win all your fights, but you do have to fight all your fights. And he said, some days you're going to win west, and some days you're going to lose. He said, it's okay if you lose. Just get up. Just get up and keep fighting.

[Lauren Everts]

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[Damon West]

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[Lauren Everts]

How severe are these fights? Is this like fist fights? You get knocked down, you're done. Is it like, they're really big?

[Damon West]

Like, they're probably all different.

[Lauren Everts]

Are they really trying to, like, we're.

[Michael Bostick]

Gonna get to prison fight? Yeah, yeah, I got.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, like, I guess what I'm asking is, like, is this like a high school fight where you fight? It's like, okay, walk away. Is this like a more aggressive fight, like, really trying to hurt someone, or is this like, hey, there's weapons and they're trying to kill you type of fight?

[Michael Bostick]

No. Thankfully, no one ever came in with a weapon. There's a lot of weapons in prison, but no one ever came to me with a weapon. It was all. Is all fighting with your fist. But there's rules in prison fighting, right? The main rule in a prison fight is when a man's on the ground, you can't beat a man. Was on the ground. You have to let him get back. Yeah, there's rules.

[Lauren Everts]

Some of these street fights that happen out here, actually, in the streets where you see people getting kicked in the head, that. That's like a no, no.

[Michael Bostick]

That's a no no in prison. No, no. But you have to let the guy get up and fight. And if you. If you beat a guy when he's on the ground. You could have the whole pod jump on you then, man. Because you're not fighting by the rules. Like hockey. Hockey is the only rule in hockey fight. You got to take your gloves off.

[Lauren Everts]

I think it's interesting for people to hear because, like, in street fights, a lot of times you see these videos of people, like, even by mistake, they kick somebody on the ground, the pipe dies, or like, it sounds like there's like some real parameters, what they.

[Michael Bostick]

That they've, There are parameters in prison fight. Yeah, you have to let, you have to let, let a man fight. And whenever you're done in a prison fight, you gotta show up. That's what Muhammad's telling me, man. You don't have to win these fights, man. Just go fight. People want to see that you're going to defend yourself. And when you get tired of fighting, just say, man, I'm done. When you're on the ground, say, I'm done.

[Damon West]

So they just want to see that you're not a pussy.

[Michael Bostick]

That's it. That's all they want to see. And you don't want them to see that you are, because if that happened, we'll, we'll talk about that. I know you want to hear some prison stories. I got them.

[Damon West]

How do you know I like prison so much?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I listen to your show. I've been a fan of yours since 2023. No, 2022.

[Damon West]

Thank you.

[Michael Bostick]

I've been listening to your show for a long time.

[Damon West]

I told you I was.

[Michael Bostick]

It's an honor to be here, y'. All. Like, this is like, like, this is like the pinnacle, man. This is like in Ed Mylett and people like.

[Lauren Everts]

So no, I'm shout out to Ed Mylett. I mean, he made this happen.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm so grateful.

[Damon West]

I can't believe I've talked about prison so much on the show. That, that's.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, but I wanted a long form podcast to come on and tell me.

[Lauren Everts]

This is the place to do it.

[Michael Bostick]

I've never done it before. I've never been on a long form podcast to tell the whole story. So this is it. This is the first time.

[Lauren Everts]

Carson. This is different for us, right?

[Damon West]

Like, we, like, this is a good one.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, we've had some people that have been in for, you know, we've had stories similar to this, but we love this kind of stuff. It's a, it's, it's different for us, but also. And I know we're going to get into the stuff you're doing, which is, I Followed you. And it's inspiring. But keep, keep going.

[Michael Bostick]

Let's keep telling stories, people. Look, y', all, in my life today, I'm a storyteller. I. I'm a speaker. I go around sharing my story. Thank you. And that's what people love, story. And a good storyteller is going to make you feel something, right? It's like the Maya Angelou quote, right? People don't always remember what you say. They don't always remember what you do, but they always remember how you make them feel. And it's my job to make people feel something. Because if I can make you feel something, that can create a memory. And that's what I'm trying to do, man. When I go into rooms and inspire people to be the best version of themselves, I want them to create. I want them to walk away saying, man, I remember that story, man, that guy's story was so intense, but he was so good at telling it. And so thank you for letting me come on the long form podcast. So Muhammad, he's telling me, man, you're gonna fight the white gangs, you're gonna fight the black gangs, but all you gotta do is get up and keep fighting. He's telling me, you don't have to win all your fights, gotta fight all your fights. But y', all, when he's telling Me this back 2009, I'm looking back at this guy like a deer in headlights. You know, all this violence and terror I'm about to walk into, that's when he's like, west, he said, let me break it down for you a different way. He said, I want you to imagine prison as a pot of boiling water. He said, anything we put into a pot of boiling water will be changed by the heat and the pressure inside that pot. He said, I'm gonna put three things in this potable and water. And watch how they change a carrot, an egg, and a coffee bean. So y', all, Lauren, Michael, this is where I first hear the story of the coffee bean. The summer of 2009 in a jail cell in Dallas County Jail. Ten years before John Gordon, I would write a best selling book in 2019 called the Coffee Bean. So he said, first things first. If I put a carrot in a pot of boiling water, he said, what happened to the carrot? Now I'm like, the carrot's gonna turn soft. He said, that's right. But the carrot goes in the water hard and firm. But the water, the prison, turns a hard carrot soft and mushy and weak. You see, you don't want to be a carrot. He said, what about the egg? What happened to the egg in the potable water? I'm like, the egg is going to turn hard, like a hard boiled egg. He said, that's right. He said, the egg has a shell that can protect it physically on the outside, but inside that shell, that soft liquid core, that yolk, that heart becomes hardened. He said, now if your heart becomes hardened, you become incapable of giving or receiving love. He said, if you're incapable of giving or receiving love, you've become institutionalized and you do not come back as someone your parents recognized.

[Damon West]

That's what happened to Shock Caller.

[Michael Bostick]

He said, you're eggshell. He said, your eggshell will have swastikas all over it.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, she's talking about.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I've seen the movie. Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

How accurate was that one?

[Michael Bostick]

Very accurate. For how the guy gets in. This is, and you're about to hear in my story, like the, how this guy goes in. He, the white gangs come after him. And remember, he goes in, he doesn't, he doesn't fight it off. So this will give you a great bookend to how that can go the other way. So, so he's telling me, you can't be the egg. You promised your parents you wouldn't be the egg. You promised you would be the carrot either. Really? And then he asked me, he said, what about the coffee bean? He said, what happened to the coffee bean in the pot of boiling water? And y', all, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have a clue. I didn't know what happened to a coffee bean and a pot of boiling water. And that is when Muhammad, this man who looks nothing like me, this man who doesn't come from the same America that I come from, this man who doesn't believe the same things I believe in my life. This is a black Muslim man from the streets of Dallas, Texas. I'm this white middle class Catholic from a little town called Port Arthur. But this man who's so different than me, he's going to share with me one of the most important and transformational messages I've ever received in my entire life. And I really think the moral to that is this. If you ever shut yourself off to other people because of their differences, different race, gender, ethnicity, religion, opinions, political views. If you close yourself off to people because of the differences, you may miss some of the most important messages and some of the best friendships in this life.

[Damon West]

Welcome to our podcast. Yeah, we agree.

[Lauren Everts]

I think that's a very Important.

[Damon West]

Welcome to our podcast.

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, listen, I think that's a very important message, especially at a time when people intentionally try to shut out as many voices as possible if they're counter to their own thoughts or opinions.

[Michael Bostick]

Michael, one of the things I love about coming to your show today is I think this is the message America needs right now. What I'm about to share with y', all, this story. The coffee bean. So he told me, he said, if I put a coffee bean in that same pot of boiling water we call prison, he said, now you gotta change the name of the water to coffee. Because he said, the coffee bean, the smallest of the three things. He said, small like you, has the power to change the entire atmosphere inside that pot, because the power is inside the coffee bean, he said, just like the powers inside of you. He said, everything else in life has changed by the water. In life, carrots are changed by the water, eggs are changed by the water, but not a coffee bean. He said, the coffee bean is the only thing that changes the water because it's the change agent. If you want to come back as someone your parents recognize, you got to be like that coffee bean, too. He told me what the first day of prison was like. Michael, this is getting to some of your answers now. He said, wes, when they get you to prison, they're going to separate you out from everybody else. In Texas, they got a law. If you get a life sentence in the state of Texas, you have to live on a level 5 maximum security. First of all, it's the highest skill level there is. And if you get a life sentence, you can't live with the general population of a prison. You have to live with other lifers. It's a building called the Life Sentence Building. The most dangerous and hopeless place you can imagine. Like, think about a world where 400, 432 men live on a building together. 98 are never going to leave that building. It's the most hopeless place on the planet. I'm one of the few guys that gets to make parole, you know? So he said, when you walk in the door the first day, they're going to let you into the life sentence building. Do not run to your bunk if the guys are scared. He said, man, you walk in the door of that day room, you put your bags down, put your back against the wall, and just let it happen. And I'm like, let what happen? He said, your heart check. The heart check is the most important fight of prison, y'. All. It's the first day. It's going to happen on day one. The heart check is they want to see what your heart's pumping or they want to see what you're made of. They want to see what your heart is pumping. He said you're going to be approached first by a white guy because you're white. He said the first guy that approached you, he's not. He's not a threat to you. He's an information gather. He's a scout. He'll ask you one relevant question. This first conversation. What gang are you going to be a part of?

[Damon West]

He reminds me of the eunuch in Game of Thrones.

[Michael Bostick]

I've never seen the Game of Thrones. I read. I read two of those books in prison. Lauren. That book, that series pissed me off. So I would get so attached to a character and they kill him. And so, like, book two, I'm like, man, I'm done with this, man. They kill all my favorite characters. There's like seven books I think those guys passed around. Prison reading's really big in prison. Two things I learned about books in prison. I never saw a guy reading a book get into a fight, and I never saw a fight over a book. Books are pretty safe, so. But the Game of Thrones. Yeah, so. So he said, you'll be approached first by a white guy. He said the first guy's not a threat. He's an information gathered scout. He'll ask you one relevant question this first conversation, what gang you're going to be a part of. And he said, man, get him out of your face as fast as you can. And then get your head on a swivel and get ready. Because the second guy coming up to you, he's not coming to talk to you. He's coming to hurt you. He said, the second guy is the enforcer. He said, now when the second guy gets within range of you, put your fist in his mouth. He said, hit him as hard as you can. Hit him in the face as hard as you can. Hit whatever you can and swing like crazy. He said, get the jump on the first fight. And y', all, just about that time, the summer of 2009, he. He makes bond. So he's gonna leave Dallas County Jail. The prison bus is getting ready to come pick me up to serve that life sentence on a Texas maximum security prison. He has four words for me on the way out the door, he said, hey, west, be a coffee bean, y'. All. Those were the four words that changed my life. Because those four words put the power back inside me. And if the power was inside me. It's not the world around me, right? The criminal justice system, the guards, the other inmates. It's inside me. And if I keep the power inside me, I don't survive prison. I thrive in that prison. And I want everybody listening to this to know that the power's inside you, too. It's not. It's not what goes on around you in the cities you live in, the state you come from. Not even in the crazy politics and social problems this country has right now. It's not in social media. It's in you. But you've got to keep the power inside you. And if you keep the power inside you, you don't survive your adversity. You thrive in your adversity. Y', all, I know this for a fact because I took the Coffee Bean message to the biggest pot of boiling water there is, a level 5 maximum security prison in the state of Texas. Y' all ready for prison stories?

[Lauren Everts]

Let's do it.

[Damon West]

I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Michael Bostick]

People love prison stories, man, and I got a lot to tell. So, Lauren, first day of prison, man, they get me to prison. The prison bus ride. These prison bus rides are long. They're hot, they're sweaty. You're chained up to another human being the whole ride. I mean, you're handcuffed to another person. The bus is a. Just a bus. It's a cage on wheels, man. The. The windows are covered up with cages. It's a cage on the inside. You get to prison, they unshackle you, they hose you down. And they took me to the life sentence building seven building on styles. Unit seven building has 432 men. Every man's got life. I walk into seven building, and I'm scared to death, y'. All. I don't want to go in. The guard screaming at me to get in. So I take a step into the day room, and the big door closed behind me. Boom. And I look up. I'm in this giant room with three levels of sales. Inmates are hanging over the railings. It's loud. Prison is a loud place. But as soon as that door closed behind me, the volume drops to zero. You could hear a pin drop. And everybody's staring at the new guy that just walked. It's like the worst first day of school ever, right?

[Lauren Everts]

Is it just you as the new guys or a crop of new guys?

[Michael Bostick]

One guy. One guy walking in. I got a mattress under one arm, a couple bags of property, and, man, the thought going through my head, run for it. Forget what Muhammad said. Get to your cell and run and hide.

[Lauren Everts]

They allow you to bring in there besides a mattress. And we say property. Like, what do you use it?

[Michael Bostick]

You could bring a Bible with you. You could bring a religious book with you. That's it. I mean, I say property, like, I had some commissary. Because you don't hit the big units like that. You don't hit them first. You go to a transfer facility. But that transfer facility where I'm. I got a life sentence. They segregate me out from everybody. I live in a cage. The transfer facility. Because they don't want life. Transfer facilities aren't maximum security. You can. You know, there's guys that try to escape from those things. Life sentence. People like me. Once you hit the transfer facility, you're in a little cage, man, like a dog in the kennel. So I lived the first couple weeks in a transfer facility in a little kennel. And then I got released from my kennel. And I go to prison, to real prison. That's the maximum security. And I got a little commissary with me because I bought some snacks and stuff off. The commissary is like a store in prison. It's like a place you can go to and buy.

[Damon West]

So does the messenger come up to you? The eunuch?

[Michael Bostick]

So, yeah. So that's funny. That's pretty good. I had to stop and laugh. So I started looking around for myself because I'm gonna make a run for it. I'm like, forget what Muhammad. Muhammad's not here with me. I'm here with me. I'm the only one here with me. Forget Muhammad, man. This guy's. That old man's crazy anyway, right? I started looking for myself. 45 cell, 45 cells up on the third tier by the showers. It was the furthest cell from the door. I'm like, man, I'll never make it. They'll give me. So I put my mattress down and put my bags down and put my back against the wall, and I waited. Doesn't take five minutes. Here he comes, the eunuch. Little bitty ball. I got to. Lauren, you're making this fun. I like this. This is never. That's never happened on the show. So little bitty ball hit a white dude. Just like Muhammad said. He's tatted up from head to toe. Even his eyelids are tatted up. He gets in my face. Hey, white boy, what fam are you riding with? They call gangs families. A gang is not a family, y'.

[Damon West]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

He said, what family you riding with white boy. I'm like, man, get out of my face, little dude. I'm riding with God. Please just leave me alone, man. I'm just here with God. He laughed at me. He said, God isn't here, white boy. He said, we kicked God out of this place a long time ago. He said, God's been gone from here. He said, but we're here, white boy, and we're gonna come get you. Get ready, white boy. He runs up the stairwell on the right side. I'm ready to pee in my pants. But I don't have time for that because coming down the third tier, biggest corn fed white dude I've ever seen in my life. This guy's an ogre, man. He's massive. He points at me from the third run. He's coming, man, and I know it. I'm watching him walk down the stairs, Lauren, Huge, muscled up white dude, muscles popping through his shirt. Bald head with a swastika all around the top of his skull, man. All these a swastika, two beady eyeballs and muscles coming at me. But man, I did everything Muhammad said. He got within range, hit him in the mouth as hard I gave him everything I had. Michael, 20 seconds later, he's beating my ass across that day room, man. He's mopping the floor. The hit didn't even phase him, man, this guy beats me from one side of the day room to the other. First fight in prison, I'm 0 and 1. Took 20 seconds, man. Beat my butt that day.

[Damon West]

Where's the guards in the picket? They don't care.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's the thing about prison fighting guards. The guard, the experience that I had in there is this. If you're not in the pod with a guard in there with you, you're not. When the guards in the pod, you don't do anything illegal activity, guys are like, hey, man, look, the guards are here to do their job. We're here to do our time. So all the tattooing and stuff like that, the fighting that goes on when the guards leave the pod, that's when all that stuff happens. For the most part. If they don't see anything, they don't write up anything. A write up takes a little bit more effort, right? And so everybody in prison knows there's going to be fighting. Here's what I learned about prison. Violence or the threat of violence is the glue that holds prison together. That's the thing that holds all together. Because if you live in a world where there's a threat of violence for everything, you say, or everything you do or everything you touch, it happens to be a different world, right? Think about it. If you could apply it out here with social media, right? All the trolls out there that say stuff behind their keyboard wouldn't happen in prison. You get your head taken off, man. So the threat of violence is the glue that holds it all together.

[Lauren Everts]

So in a weird way, this is going to maybe sound like a strange question. Do you find that there's a certain etiquette in there and a certain way of, like, you know, we're all here.

[Damon West]

Living in this space, get on the prison break?

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, no.

[Damon West]

But of course there's etiquette, meaning, like.

[Lauren Everts]

Maybe I'm going to say something strange, maybe in some cases, more etiquette than there would be outside of it.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh. In my book, I talk about that like you have a world in there. A thief. You don't have thieves in prison. I remember one time they caught a thief. They almost killed him and beat him up against the fence. And the guards let it go on because you can't have a thief in a communal environment. Like, you got 48 men. You live around this little section. If a thief runs around in there and everybody's pointing their fingers at each other, you can start a war. Thieves are the worst person you could have inside of a prison. So when you get to prison and you establish yourself, you could leave property out there in the day room for a week if you wanted to, and no one would touch it. That's the way prison work. But you got to establish yourself if you're weak or considered to be weak or someone can roll over. People are always testing you when you first get there because they want to see if they can extort you. They want to see if they can rape you. There's a lot of things that go on inside of a prison that you have to establish yourself. That's what Muhammad was getting me ready for, right? You got to establish yourself. He said, don't even worry about the wins. Just keep fighting. That's what I did. So it took me two weeks to get through the white gangs. And this is fighting every day, y'.

[Damon West]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

In the first two months of prison, I get in three dozen fights. Think about how many fights it is in. In. In two months. Two months, three dozen fights.

[Damon West]

No drugs?

[Michael Bostick]

No drugs. No. The last time I did Drugs was a SWAT team day. So July 30th was the last time. That's it. July 30th, 2008, my sobriety date.

[Damon West]

So I thought you Were going to say that there's drugs in the prison. Every.

[Michael Bostick]

There's a ton of drugs in prison.

[Damon West]

You just didn't tell.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, for me? No, no. Yeah, there's truck. There's drugs everywhere. I'm in prison. A guy comes to my cell. Good question. Second day I'm in prison, man. The day after that first fight, I'm in my cell. Guy comes to the door. He bangs on the door, hey, Wes, I got what you need, man. I go up to the cell door. This guy's got meth and his ice. This is the stuff that drove me to this place, right? I look, dad, man, I'm not interested in that. He goes, man, come on. I read all about you online. They got cell phones in prison. When you walk in and they find out who you are, they start googling who you are. They run your TDCJ number, your prison number through that phone, and, man, they find out everything about your case. They read your whole case file. Every news article has been written about you. This guy's telling me, man, I know about you all in that Burkery stuff. You love this meth. Meth drove you to do all those things. I got it for you right here, man. It's in my face on day two.

[Damon West]

And you didn't want it?

[Michael Bostick]

No, man, that. That's what put me in the place. I was. I was done with it. Rock bottom for me was the day I got sentenced to life in prison. I knew that something had to change, and that something was me. I just didn't know how to make that change. And so that's what I was working on when I got to prison. How do I change me? But first I had to survive. Like, the first two months, I'm just surviving. And it's interesting because a former guard that used to work in the prison, I live in the area where I went to prison. I live in a little town right outside of Beaumont, Texas. That's where I was in prison. In fact, I'm four miles from my. The house I just built. Four miles from the jog by my old prison. I waved for the guys in the wreck yard. They waved back, Stuff like that. That's how close I lived in prison. What? It's insane, isn't it?

[Damon West]

Do you do that as, like, a reminder, you know?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, yeah, kind of. I go into prisons a lot, too. I. I go into. I try to make it a point to go into a prison somewhere in America every month.

[Damon West]

Can I go with you?

[Michael Bostick]

Absolutely. When? Whenever you're ready to go in I.

[Damon West]

Have is like, would you take me to a female prison or a male prison?

[Michael Bostick]

I would take you to both. So I want you and I'll take you out. But here's why I would say this, because every four months.

[Lauren Everts]

What's going on with you over there?

[Damon West]

I, like, I'm. No, I just am intrigued by it. I just think it's like, I will.

[Michael Bostick]

Absolutely.

[Damon West]

I. I've, like, ever since I was little, we would drive by jail, like in San Diego, and I would ask my dad a hundred questions.

[Lauren Everts]

My grandma used to do this weird thing to me. I don't know. And I've never thought about it until this moment in time where, like, outside of the prison. That was insane. She would, like, take me when I was a kid and we'd, like, sit outside. And it was a weird thing that I don't know why she was doing. She may be trying to teach me something.

[Michael Bostick]

You know, I think that if you want to check the temperature of the country and see how well or unwell a country is, go inside of a prison. That'll tell you what the.

[Damon West]

The.

[Michael Bostick]

The status.

[Damon West]

That makes total sense.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Damon West]

I just. There's something. I. I find it interesting. I don't know, another word to you.

[Michael Bostick]

In my new life, you know, we'll get to all the stuff I'm doing in my new life because that's where the story we wanted that to go. That's where the change happens. The parole board in Texas, who owns me until I get. I get off parole, you'll hear about that in a second. But I have a curriculum in the Texas prison system every four months. I graduated class from the change agent prison curriculum. Remember Muhammad said the. The coffee bean was the change agent. So the class is called the change agent prison curriculum. And it's about the lessons and principles in my life because the parole board saw what happened in my life. They're like, can you teach the men and women in prison how to think like you? So every four months, I graduated class. And every four months I have a graduation ceremony, Caps and gowns, a big meal is served. I pay. I pay for all this stuff, right? Because I want them to experience that. But I always bring in speakers, and I want to bring in people from the free world that somebody, they will recognize. Because I want these guys to see the belief that others have in me. Then if other people believe in me, somebody could believe in them. If they change the way they think, and you change the way you think, you change the way you act, right? The last speaker I had was, you know, you football fan? Yeah. Dallas Cowboys, Sure. So Dak Prescott, good friend of mine, he's the deal. He's my partner in the movie deal. For six dimes a nickel. Dak's wife is Sarah Jane Prescott. Sarah Jane, sj. Call her sj. She's really fat. She's like you. She's really fat. She just had a baby, actually, two weeks ago. SJ just had her baby two weeks ago. But she came into the prison in March. She was my graduation. Came in with Dak. They both came in together, and she came in eight months pregnant into a Texas prison, a maximum security prison, and spoke to all these guys and really held their attention to Lauren because remember how mothers are a big deal in prison?

[Damon West]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's this eight month pregnant woman in there telling them about life and tell them how they can be better. And I believe in you and things like that, you know, like just pumping into them. This. This belief in them. They loved her.

[Damon West]

Yeah. I think that would be really interesting to go into a prison.

[Michael Bostick]

I can make it happen. And we always do a prison tour. So you get to tour the maximum security prison, women's prisons, and someone told.

[Damon West]

Me it's like one of the safest places. Like, I don't know if it's the safest place you can go, but it seems like there's. There is an etiquette there.

[Michael Bostick]

There's an etiquette there. They're gonna do anything to you in there because, I mean, plus you're going to be around the inmates that are really trying hard to get better. And I think you would be incredible, especially in a women's prison. Talk. I partnered up. Y' all know what Elf on the Shelf is, right? Yeah. So the lady that started off on the shelf is a woman named Shanda Bell. I ran into Shanda Bell a couple years ago. I met her at an event, and, man, I didn't know if I wanted to shake her hand or run from her. Right. Because how many nights I got a little stepdaughter who's 13, but when Clara was a little girl, she had a little elf named Trixie. I can't tell you how many nights my wife and I wake up like, did you move the elf? Did you move the elf?

[Damon West]

You can't around with the elf.

[Michael Bostick]

And I know. So it's like when I meet Shannon, I'm like, listen, I got to tell you, man, many sleepless nights around your elf. But we loved it. Clara loved her elf.

[Damon West]

Our elf is like skydiving.

[Michael Bostick]

Off the rooftop by the crazy stuff going on. So when I met Shanda, this was in 2024. I met Shanda in 2024. And she said, damon, I love your story. She said, your book, the Coffee Bean, got our company through the pandemic. She said, in 2020, during the pandemic. You know, think about it. Supply chain, you know, supply chain issues. No one's in stores. No one's shopping. They're based out of Atlanta. The Elf on the Shelf group, It's called Lumistella, the name of the company. And she said, we read your book, the Coffee Bean, and it got us through. She said, I really am grateful for it. I love you. Come talk to my company out there. So she brings me in to speak, and I said, shanda, here's what I would love from you. I've got a foundation to be a Coffee Bean Foundation. My foundation, all I do, my wife and I's foundation, we take care of children who have incarcerated parents all over America. We provide money for extracurricular scholarships.

[Damon West]

Really cool.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Because you want to keep them busy and involved. And, you know, this program that we have for the kids for extracurricular scholarships, it really works best whenever the parent that's in prison nominates their kid on the outside. So now the parent in prison gets to tell the kid on the outside, I got you that karate scholarship, or I got you that swimming, that dancing, that music lesson, that select sports. And so you kind of repair the parent child bond. But I told Shanda, I said, hey, listen, really smart. Can you donate 200 elves to my foundation? We'll take it as a donation, and I'll go in throughout October in the Texas prison system. I'll do Elf on the Shelf. We'll do Christmas in October. And all the parents that are in prison that want to give their kid an elf. We had special days on Saturdays and Sundays in the Texas prison system. Men's prisons, women's prisons. And it was one of the most amazing times I've ever spent in prison. I spent a lot of time in prison. But, man, this event, it was so cool because these parents in prison are reading the book about the elf to their kid. And I'm getting emotional talking about it, you know, at the end of the book when you get the name the elf.

[Damon West]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

And they. They do that together. And it's in the. It's in the handwriting of the parents in prison. So that kid that whose mom or dad's in prison, they get to go home and they have this elf and this past Christmas, the conversations they were having in prison were, where was your elf hiding? What was your elf doing? You know, Christmas is a hard time in prison. Holidays are hard, I'm sure. But it was just, like, a little piece to make it a little bit better for some of these families in prison. We're going to do it every year. So I'm saying all that to tell you that I've got access to the Texas prison. If y' all ever really want to go in, I will make that happen.

[Damon West]

I would love. I mean, I would love to.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay.

[Damon West]

I. I think Michael and I would have a blast.

[Lauren Everts]

And then the way you just described, like, I. I love the angle that you're taking with it. I mean, I think, like. I think, like, the biggest thing that we've learned doing. One of the biggest things. I don't want to speak for you doing this show is that it's so important to hear people's stories. It's very rare that we've met anyone where we've left me. Like, that person is a bad person. You figure out, like, what happens to people because of some of the decisions they make in their life. And I think it's one of the. The reason we, like, the long form is, is you get to really understand, like, why somebody thinks the way they do, why they make the decisions. They make it circuit. Like, you know, people don't set out to have this happen in their life, right? There's just, you know, it's like that fork in the road methodology is like, you make one wrong decision, and your whole life changes.

[Michael Bostick]

No one ever. No one ever. I didn't grow up saying, I want to be a drunk. I want to be a drug addict. I want to be a thief. I want to be a criminal. I want to go to prison, man. I wanted to be. I wanted to be a pro sports player. I wanted to be a sports agent. I want to be Jerry Maguire before there's Jerry Maguire. I don't think most people grow up wanting to be all those things, but I became all those things, right? And anybody. Everybody in life deserves redemption. And if you. If you go out there and you want redemption, I think you. You should. You should have a path towards redemption. I think everybody is deserving of redemption. That comes in with a heart that says, hey, look, I'm wrong. I'm sorry I did this. I want to fix the pieces of this puzzle and put it back together, and that's hard, man.

[Damon West]

How long were you in prison for?

[Michael Bostick]

Okay, we're getting back to Prison. Now, see how she did that? She. She heard us. Back to prison. So.

[Damon West]

Oh, my God, my clipboard. Question.

[Michael Bostick]

So, yeah, so. So prison. So two weeks of fighting the white gangs, then I'm fighting black gangs, just like Muhammad said. So six weeks into prison, y', all, it's a Monday morning. I get up, I'm this close to being the broken man from Shawshank. The hope is almost gone. The violence, the terror is too much. I'm still fighting the black gangs at this point. So I made a decision that Monday morning, six weeks in, you win in any fight. I'm winning some. I'm losing 75 of these things. And so, I mean, you think about three dozen fights, 75% of you lose. There's some days I don't leave myself. Like, I don't even go to the chow hall. I just don't eat because I don't want to fight that day. And it happened, man. I mean, it just. There's some days you just got to retreat, you know? My cellmate, Carlos, he teaches me how to make a mouthpiece in there. So a mouthpiece is made out of a bunch of toilet paper. You get wet, you put it up in your teeth, you get it molded, and you set it out overnight on the desk, on the countertop, and it'll become hard like wood. And that mouthpiece is good for one fight. So you get up every morning, you put your mouthpiece in your pocket, and you go. And when someone calls you out to fight, in prison terms, they say, you want to. Let's go catch a square. Catching a square, like a boxing ring, is a square. So catch a corner. That's also fighting terms.

[Damon West]

You're just trying to get a coffee and some oatmeal.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. So it's like, yeah, or someone says, I want to look at you in the shower. Nothing gay about that. Look at you in the shower. They say, well, they want to look at your boxing game in the shower. Showers back there, there's no cameras. Guards can't see you. All the blood you spill, it's easy to clean up in a shower. So that's the terms they use for fighting. So it's just stuff you're. You're hearing all the time. So six weeks in, still fighting the black gangs, I make a decision that Monday morning to use the only thing I haven't used to earn respect, my athletic ability. Now, y', all, God bless me, to be a tremendous athlete. I was a Division 1 starting quarterback at 20. Man, that's hard to do. And I don't care what. What era you come from. 20 years old, starting a D1 team. I'm a baller. But the rec yard where you play sports, it's the most intimidating place I've ever seen because it's the most segregated place I've ever seen. Every sport on the wreck yard in that maximum security prison where I was the life. The life sentence building. Every sport was segregated by the color of your skin. It's like walking back in time in America. I'm gonna walk. I'm gonna walk everybody through the record real quick. So you go out to the record alarm. Sand volleyball. Sand volleyball is for the whites and Hispanics only. Handball. Those big concrete handball walls. All races can play handball. But if you want to play doubles in a game, handball, your doubles partner has to be the same skin color.

[Damon West]

Can Michael play basketball?

[Michael Bostick]

I'm gonna get to that. Good question.

[Damon West]

No.

[Michael Bostick]

Good question. No, but I'm gonna get to that. But. So the weight stack, just like you see in prison, moves, man. Everybody wants to push out iron in prison. And all races can lift weights in prison. But if you wanted someone to spot you, someone work out with you, your partner, your spotter has to be the same race as you. The movie shot call that, you watch, remember?

[Damon West]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

All the guys lifting weights were all the same race all the time. Okay? So the chow hall was the same way. Y', all. The chow hall. You go to the chow hall, you can't grab your tray and go sit down at a table with people from a different race, man. You got to sit with your own.

[Lauren Everts]

What happens if you do do that?

[Michael Bostick]

Man, you can get your. You can get your ass kicked. I mean, unless you've established yourself in a different way, which is where this story's going to. And let me tell you something. It wasn't just like one race wanted that way. And this Muhammad told me the blacks have the numbers in there. He said, you're going to a world where we're being white's not the advantage anymore. The color of your skin is a disadvantage to this place. Right. Blacks have the numbers. Hispanics are the second most populated in there, and the whites are the lowest number in there. So he said, you're on the lowest end of the totem pole in this place. But every race wants it that way. Every race wants the division of races. Everybody wants that way. Here's what I've learned, too. Prison is a microcosm of what the world out here looks like. If you take the guardrails off society, you take the brakes off. You start telling people you don't have to mix it up with anybody else. It'll look like you, you don't want to be associated. People that don't have the same, you know, ideas about sex that you do, you know, if you take all the guardrails off. Human beings are tribal people. Human beings have always been trouble. 8,000 years of recorded history. Most of that time, everybody was off in packs. That's how human beings survived this whole experiment we have in humankind of everybody mixing it up. This is a few hundred years old. This isn't like something that's been going on. Human beings are tribal. And I believe that if you take all the guardrails off society, everybody would break off. And people that look like them, not everybody. Most people. Because I wouldn't do it. Y' all wouldn't do it. I hear your show, you got, you love diversity. I think diversity is a strength. So that Monday morning, six weeks in, I get up, I face all my fears. I go out to the record, I pass up all those other sports I just told you about. And I went straight to the basketball court, where the blacks own the basketball court. No white boys are allowed the basketball court rolling. But here's what I'm thinking as I go out there. I'm going to play sports. Sports is the great uniter in this country. Sports is the one thing that brings us Americans together like nothing else can. Not even religion brings people together like sports. Because we can, we can self segregate religions in America, and we do. But sports, you can't segregate a sport. That's a melting pot, man. That's. We all come together, root for our team. Here's what I'm thinking too, as I go to the rec yard. Before there was Martin Luther King Jr. There was Jackie Robinson, baseball player. Right before you integrated lunch counters in the south. Down here, you integrated locker rooms. I knew sports would do it for me, y'. All. So I go out there, I get my. I get myself in a game of basketball. I get in way over my head too. They let me play some basketball and then I'm fighting the blacks at this point. They're like, get out of here, white boy. Let's go. So it's nine on one basketball for about six days out there. But I keep showing up. I get a little bit better, a little stronger, I get a little more confident. You know, Ed, Ed has this saying. He says you build confidence by keeping the promises you make to yourself.

[Damon West]

I love when he says that.

[Michael Bostick]

And that's true every day after the rec yard was over. I'd be banged up, got a black eye, busted lip. But I'm like, you know what? I'm coming back out tomorrow. And at some point midway through the week, I'm telling those guys, I'll be back tomorrow. I'm making them hold me to it. And after six days of playing basketball, those guys, they circled up around me, the basketball court the last day, they said, wes, you're good to go, man. You don't have to worry about the blacks. Rest time. And you've earned your right to exist. You took everything we had. You gave it back when you could. That took a lot of guts. Go live your life, man. So two months into prison, Lauren, the violence is finally over. The threat to my physical safety is gone. And that's what I got to get. Get started working on becoming that coffee bean. And it was hard. Prison was this giant pot of boiling water.

[Lauren Everts]

So do people stop? Everybody stops with you at that point. They move on to somebody else, man.

[Michael Bostick]

You're about. You asked the question, all right? So I told myself, I'm not going to tell this story unless I get prodded for the story. But you asked it, so I'm going to tell you. So two weeks after the basketball court, right? And at this point, Michael, I'm in, man. The. The guys, the black guys, they come by my cell every day. They bang on my door, wes, let's go play some basketball, man. I belong, man. The whites hate it, man. They're like, man, this guy survived it all, and he's not, you know, I've earned my right to be an independent in there, which is a hard thing to do. So two weeks after that's over, I've come off the wreck yard. That day, My. My cellmates. Little guy named Carlos. It's not his real name, but his picture is actually in the book. So I tell a lot of stories about Carlos in the book. I come off the wreck yard. Carlos is waiting for me in the pod day room. He said, man, get over. He's agitated. I can tell he's agitated, man. He said, get over here, man. So we go under the stairwell. There's no cameras under there. People can't see you. They can't hear you. He said, man, when you go to the shower today, Blackjack's gonna be in the shower waiting to rape you. Now, Blackjack is the biggest rapist in prison, y'. All. This is. This is death in a lot of ways, y'.

[Lauren Everts]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

He is about he's about 64260. Big black guy, loves to rape white guys. He's HIV positive. Got a knife. He does it with a knife. Biggest rapist in prison, Michael. He said, blackjack's in the pod today. He's waiting for you to go to the shower. And I'm like, well, then I'm not gonna go to shower, man. I'm just gonna stink tonight. I'm sorry, man. This tail is gonna stink. He said, you're an idiot, man. You have to go to the shower. He said, if you don't go to the shower today, he rapes someone else. Now you got two problems to deal with. That's on you, too. He said, you're on the track, and the train is coming west. What are you prepared to do? And I'm like, man, this guy's got a knife, man. I don't have a knife, man. Carlos whips out a knife out of his pants about this long. I don't even know this little guy's hiding this thing, man. He's a little. He's about 5 foot 4. You see his picture in the book? He whips out that knife, he puts it in my hand. Now, a knife in prison is just like you see in the movies. It's a piece of steel. It's been sharpened to a razor's edge. It's got duct tape around the handle, man, just like a shank.

[Damon West]

You've seen him, and why does he want to help you?

[Michael Bostick]

Everybody wants Blackjack dead. He's the biggest rapist in prison. He's an animal, man.

[Damon West]

So they're trying to use you.

[Michael Bostick]

They're using me. That's a good question, though. It's very. Not anybody that's. That's good. In the book, I talk about. In the Change Agent, my first book, I talk about this scene very vividly. Vividly. And that's what I gather from Carlos. Like, they want him dead, okay? And so that's what he's telling me. He's giving me a knife, and I'm like, man, I'm holding this thing, and I'm like, man, I give it back to him. I mean, I've never fought with a knife before. I mean, this guy, he's been fighting for a knife for 20 years. Sliced me to pieces. There's got to be another weapon, another way. He said, there is another weapon. There is another way. He said, go to the cell. I'll meet you in a second. So I go up to my cell. I'm up in 45 cell and I'm pacing around like an animal in a cage, man. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Carlos comes in about five minutes later. He's got some tools in his hand. Now, remember, Texas prisons have no air conditioning. We have these little bitty fans that are supposed to keep us cool. This is March of 2010. So he takes apart my fan. I don't really need the fan that bad in March. He takes apart my fan and cuts out the fan motor. In the middle of the fan motor is about 5 pounds of just metal and wire.

[Lauren Everts]

Put it in a sock or something.

[Michael Bostick]

Put it in a bag. Good, good, good thinking, Mike. You do well in prison. So, yeah, you know what?

[Lauren Everts]

I motivated Wes. I might have, like, I might have aged out now because I'm almost 40, 38. So, like, maybe they might just say, hey, this guy's a little too old.

[Michael Bostick]

I made. I'm 50 now. So, I mean, I'm good. I'm aged out too, so we're good. So he puts it in this mesh bag. It's a commissary bag. It's also the bag you take your shower stuff to the shower. He starts swinging around. He said, this is your weapon today. It's a ball and chain flail, a medieval weapon. So he said, listen to everything I'm telling you, Wes. He said, go to the shower. It's a one man shower. He said, you go in, they got a little change area on the right, showers in the back. He said, turn the shower water on real hot, get a steamy in there, wait in the change area, wait for him to come in. He said, as soon as he peeks his head through that door, hit him in the head with this fan motor. He said, now your first hit's not going to kill him. You're just going to stun him on the first hit. But when you stun him, hop on him and swing this fan motor at him. He said, hit him in the head as hard as you can until you see his brains coming out of his skull. He said, do not quit swinging until you see the gray matter come out.

[Damon West]

Hold on. But here. Pause. This is where I get confused. If you do that, don't you go into prison longer.

[Michael Bostick]

Here's what he tells me. Good questions. This is good, Lauren. We're. We're here. He said, west. He said, one of two things gonna happen today. He said, he's either gonna do something to you, to you, that you're gonna wish you were dead, or you're gonna kill him today. But either way, you're never leaving prison alive. You understand that? Your sentence just changed today. This is a life sentence. For real. You're never gonna leave prison alive because.

[Damon West]

What could he do to. Like, what is he gonna do to you? He's gonna give you hiv rape.

[Michael Bostick]

Me, I mean, I'll be HIV positive. I'll die in prison.

[Damon West]

Got it?

[Michael Bostick]

Okay. You know? Or I kill him, and they give me another life sentence. Or give me the lethal injection. If they can prove that I'm laying in wait for him. They can give you a lethal injection. They can kill you. That you can get his breath.

[Lauren Everts]

Premeditated.

[Michael Bostick]

Premeditated. You're waiting, you know, so not much of a choice, right? I said, give me the bag. I'm going in, man. And so I take the bag, I go to the shower, and I'm freaked out, y'. All. I'm about to. I, like. I'm thinking about killing this guy, and I don't know if I can do it right. I'm scared to death. I mean, I take another life. I've never been a violent guy. So I get in the prison, I do everything. I get in the shower, do everything he says. I wait in the change area. I don't know if it's a minute and a half or two minutes, man, or five minutes, man. My heart is thumping through my chest. And he opens up the shower door. They have little saloon doors back on the shower back then. And I remember he put on that door, and I saw his face. He had this grin on his face, Lauren, Like a dude that's about to get laid at 2 in the morning. Like that, man. That grin changed it for me, man. I went from just 0 to 100 on rage. I swung that fan motor.

[Damon West]

Boom.

[Michael Bostick]

I hit him as hard as I could. And he raises up at the last second, hit him in the chest. Loud, sickening thud. Shoots him out of the. Like a cartoon character getting shot out of a cannon. Drops the knife on the ground, and I am on this dude, man. I'm swinging this fan motor at him. I can't get to his head. He's got the head covered up, man. Trying to protect his head. I'm hearing ribs breaking this thing, man. So two of his gang brothers are watching this, man. He's a. He's a Mandingo warrior. They're flying up the stairs. I'm on the third tier, man. I think I might kill this guy. I'm gonna get him off. And, man, his gang brothers FL up, and they're like, these are Guys I play basketball with now, by the way, they're like, west, don't lay another hand on. He's on the ground. Don't lay another hand on him, man. I'm like, dude, listen, man, he just tried to rape me. He. I said, man, he tried to. He tried to get me, man. He said, look, man, he had a weapon. You had a weapon. It's over. We're going to let you make it, man. Just grab your weapon, Go beat your feet. So, man, I run off to my cell, I throw my weapon down to the ground, and I remember curling up a ball in that cell, man. I started crying like a baby, man. The adrenaline is burning off. And I passed out, and I woke up. You ever been so hungry it feels like your stomach and your back are touching each other? That's how I woke up, man. I'm, like, starving. Like, the adrenaline burn just burned off. And I'm like, man, I heard the cell doors roll, and I'm like, oh, good, it's chow time. I'll go to chow. But it wasn't chow. It wasn't last chow. It was breakfast. The next day, I was out for.

[Damon West]

12 hours because you were so much cortisol that it just, like, just.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, just your body just shut down, man. And I'm like, oh, that really happened. I look over there, I see the. I see the bags got blood all over it. And I'm like, oh, man. So I start looking for a cut on me. It's not my blood. He never got a lick in him. It's his blood, not mine. And I gotta make a decision, man. I'm like, oh, my God. I gotta walk out this cell door that all this stuff really happened? I don't know what's gonna happen when I walk out the door, but I gotta leave the cell. I can't stand the cell forever. And, Lauren, when I walked out that cell that next morning, it was a different prison for me. Every man in prison saw that I spoke the only language everybody speaks in prison, which is violence. You either you get fluent. You get very fluent in violence. Either you speak violence or someone speaks it to you, but you become very fluent in the language of violence.

[Damon West]

Do you think, though, it's also because you went up against the predator who was the rapist, and none of them wanted to get raped, and so there was something that you defused with that?

[Michael Bostick]

No, because he still went on as a rapist. He didn't stop. Yeah, he didn't ever bother me again. And now look, that's like Predators. Predators go after the weakest link. Right. They don't want to get hit in the mouth or hit in the head with a fan motor. He gave me some crazy looks, but he never, never, never messed with me again. I found out later he died in prison, too. Carlos told me he died a few years ago in prison. Yeah, he died. Remember, he was HIV positive. Right. So he was.

[Damon West]

He give HIV to everyone.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, that's what he did as a rapist.

[Damon West]

That's. That's almost a weapon. It is a weapon giving hiv.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. You're not supposed to get a death sentence when you go to prison. You know, you're. You go to go to prison, you do your time. It's not supposed to be a death sentence, but for a lot of guys that he raped, that was death. But that's prison.

[Lauren Everts]

What, I mean, why, why do guys like. Why do more people, more prisoners not stop a guy like that?

[Michael Bostick]

Because no one is going to take up for you if you don't take up for yourself, first of all. Because if you step into someone's problem and they're not defending themselves, that can become your problem, Michael. I mean, I can. I can still hear the guys at night that got raped, you know. You can, you can hear that. I mean, it doesn't ever go away. But I'm not going to step in and help those guys because I don't want that to become my problem. Them too. Prison. There's a code of conduct in prison. You see without seeing and you hear without hearing. And that's how you. That's how you survive.

[Damon West]

So you can't get involved. If someone else is getting raped, even if it's your own cellmate, you can.

[Michael Bostick]

But Lauren, there's a lot of strings attached to that.

[Lauren Everts]

But if you're ganged up, does that mean you're just like not a target for those? Is that why most.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, that's why most people get in a gang.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, it's immediate protection.

[Michael Bostick]

Once you get in a gang, you're immediate. Immediately protected. You can't. Nobody can pick you off. You're not like the last. You ever seen the nature videos where the lion gets the last hyena? Yeah, you know, the last zebra or whatever.

[Lauren Everts]

So that's. That's the pressure. Why people. That's why I so easily into that is because they.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Damon West]

Become sleeping every single night. Are you worried or no?

[Michael Bostick]

No. For the first five years in prison, because I was a lifer, I had to live in the life sentence building. The first five years I lived In a cell. So you live in a. So the pods, so seven building has 432 men, and it's G pod, H pod, and ipod. And every pod has three sections, and each section has 48 men. So in those sections are cells that doors close and they sell just like you see in a movie. A door closed. In the cell, you have a cellmate. There's a bunk bed in there. There's a desk, there's a toilet, and that's where you sleep at night. Your door is closed. So I had. I was very fortunate. I had some really good cellmates. So Carlos, obviously. Carlos, is one of my best friends in the world now.

[Damon West]

Is he still in prison?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I talk to him every month on the prison phone. I put money on his books every month. There's four. Four guys that I stay in touch with in prison. And you read the book six times a nickel. You meet some of these guys. These are people that were just nice to me on the, the hardest time of my life. And I told them, if I ever get to a position in life that I can help you, I will. And these four guys, they don't have a lot of help on the Free world, family and stuff like that. So I am their family. Every month, I put a hundred dollars on their books. I mean, they have these tablets. They can buy movies and stuff like that. I give them money for movies and because they were so kind to me in the hardest, darkest place of my life.

[Lauren Everts]

Does $100 go a long way in prison?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Damon West]

Can they listen to podcasts and they.

[Michael Bostick]

Can listen to certain podcasts. It just depends on whether or not they get them on their apps. So you would know if Dear Media is on the prison apps, But I can help y' all get on the prison apps if that's what you want to. Because, I mean, I just think it'd.

[Damon West]

Be cool for them to hear this.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I mean, this is. I mean, this would be great for them to hear this. I mean, I don't know.

[Lauren Everts]

We'll use our redemption codes for our beauty products.

[Michael Bostick]

The women will now.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm just kidding. Nobody cool if they.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, no, I, I, I've got, I've got a lot of connections in the Texas prison system, so I'll find out and see if we can't get this episode in there, but that'd be cool. Yeah, they read my books. They read my books a lot in there. So last week I was in Austin. I was speaking to UT Medical school. Right. They brought me in to speak to all the UT Medical. Beautiful building downtown, the Dell Medical Building. And the night before, the guy that runs UT Medical School, he lives in the Westlake Hills up here. Beautiful house. I mean, this neighborhood was incredible. Lives in these hills about 20 minutes away. And they had a dinner that was catered and I was there hanging out with everybody and everybody got to ask questions the night before. And they've all read my book, so they had a lot of good questions about prison. You would have loved it. They had a lot of questions about prison. And one of the catering staff comes up to me when I go to the bathroom. I say, hey, I go to the bathroom real quick. So I go to the bathroom and this guy from the catering staff follows me. He said, hey man, I couldn't help but overhearing what you were talking about there. He said, you're the Coffee Bean guy, right? I said, yeah, man. I said, how do you know me? He said, I did time and I did 11 years in the joint. He said, man, I read your books. He said, you got me through a tough time, man.

[Damon West]

That's cool.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, it was really cool. I told the guy, the head doctor that had the event after it was over because the guy was like, hey man, none of my co workers really know about my backstory, but I just wanted to tell you, man, thanks. Coffee Bean guy took off.

[Damon West]

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[Lauren Everts]

Welcome back to another A Straw segment here on our show. A Straw tequila is quickly becoming my summer staple. And here's why. There is nothing worse than investing in a tequila that does not deliver quality and taste, but also that you've paid a ton for. What I love about Austral Tequila is, and I've got the three of them right now. I've got the Reposado, which is my personal favorite. I've got the Anejo and I've got the blanco. And what I love about this brand is that it is an affordable tequila with a premium taste. Like I said earlier, Estrall is my go to tequila for margaritas at home. And it doesn't just taste good, it does good too. Every bottle of Hrol Tequila helps build homes for families in need in Jalisco, Mexico. After making the tequila, they actually upcycle the leftover agave fibers into bricks and use it for homes to build in their community. This is obviously an incredible thing, so you get to have great tequila and do good at the same time. I did a couple segments on my Instagram talking all about how I make a perfect margarita. I do mine with the reposado. Most people do it with the blanco. If you just go to my Instagram, Michael Bostick, you can check it out. I give the full steps on how to make a perfect margarita. But one thing that I've been really enjoying this summer, especially as it's gotten so hot out here in Texas and honestly across the entire world, is doing a tequila soda. You can do it with a nice club soda and with this nice lime and stir it in there. And I like this because it is so hot over here right now and all over the country and all over the world. Like I said that it's so important to hydrate. And so sometimes having those sweet cocktails like a margarita or just doing the tequila on the rocks gets a little bit too much in the heat and you start to get a little dehydrated. So just doing it with this club soda has been great. And what I love about a straw tequila, as well as it makes an incredible gift. I have been giving a straw tequila left, right. Not this bottle because this one has the engraved micro, which, you know, I'll never get rid of this one, Carson. But for others without the special engraving, I've been giving it out because people love a nice quality tequila. It's something that they can put in their bar cart. It's something they can put at home. It's something they can display and it shows that you're being thoughtful. You're not just pulling something off the shelf. If you're giving someone a straw, it's because you know tequila and you know quality. So let's talk about the three different straws that I have in front of me for a second. I have the classic the anejo. This is something that you're going to want to have on the rocks. Maybe you're going to want to have it with a dinner. I like it with a chicken dish. I like, love it with Mexican food. Has a little bit of like an orange type flavor, has a little bit of a stronger aftertaste. And this is going to be a great gift if you, if you have somebody that has a palette for more of a tequila forward, more of like an on the rocks type of vibe. The tried and true blanco. Everyone loves a blanco tequila. This is what most people are using in a paloma. It's what they're using in a margarita. This is what the classic margarita would call for. I like to take this as a sipping tequila as well, on the rocks. And uh, what I love about this is you're not going to have kind of like that strong aftertaste. It's just a smooth transition and something that you know, you can enjoy, like I said, in cocktails, on the rocks, sipping. So this is a great tequila with a little bit of versatility across different ways to consume and different ways to, to enjoy. And then what I have here is my personal favorite, has a little bit of a cinnamon aftertaste, a little bit of a cinnamon floral flavor. And that is the reposado. I use this to make my margaritas. I think it gives them a little bit of an extra, extra bang, a little bit of an extra push, and differentiates them a little bit more from what you typically taste in the blanco. Not that I don't love the blanco. I'm typically, if I'm doing a sipping tequila, using the anejo or the blanco, not so much the reposado, but for my cocktails, for my palomas, for my tequila sodas, for my margaritas, I'm going with the reposado. This is the one that I have been gifting to friends. I had my friend in the office the other day, dear media, so fully stocked up and I handed him this and he reported back that it was one of the best that he ever had. So this is my go to. It's the reposado. But again, I don't say that to diminish the either of the other two because they're also incredible. I just happen to prefer the reposado, hence why it has the Michael bottle on it. So check them out. All three. Can't go wrong with any of them. Housemark Summer is here. Time to stock up. Go to www.astra l t e q u I l a.com to find a straw near you. And don't forget the limes. Please enjoy. Respons Every day our law enforcement officers face life and death decisions in increasingly dangerous environments. From high stress incidents to critical officer involved events, these men and women are on the front lines. Yet they lack the training, funding and resources they need to protect themselves and the communities they serve. Enter the Community First Project a service disabled veteran owned nonprofit founded by a tier one Navy SEALs and Army Special Operations leader. Their mission to provide cutting edge real world tactical training that empowers officers to serve, protect and survive. At C1P they believe in the power of training to save lives. Both the lives of officers and the lives of the communities they protect. With expert led comprehensive programs, Community First Project helps to bridge the gap between what our law enforcement needs and what they're given. So when you support C1P, you're not just donating, you're making sure officers are prepared for the challenges they face every day. You're helping build safer, stronger communities and most importantly, you're saving lives. I'm very passionate about this mission and hope our audience sciences as well. So join us in this crucial mission. Visit c1p.org today to learn how you can help make a difference again. If you can go do your part and make a [e-mail] how are you sitting with us here now you got this life sentence pretty much you're in prison doing time now you have a little bit of independence. You don't have to gang up.

[Michael Bostick]

So I start transforming myself now. I start becoming a coffee bean first big one of the biggest things happening there is I got to a 12 step program recovery. I got into AA. Now I don't speak for AA. You got AA people out there like man, why are you saying you speak for a. I don't speak for AA. It happens to be the 12 step program recovery that I work in my own life and it's what I. It's what the meetings I go to. But I got into going to meetings in prison and I started working the steps, started working the 12 steps and I started transforming myself in there. I started teaching guys about having a healthy community there because a lot of these Guys never had someone to teach them about a healthy community, you know, Healthy community, I believe, is a place where everybody puts their talents on the table. Here's my talent. If anybody can use this talent, I'm your guy for that. You know, a healthy community is, you know, you see trash on the ground, you pick it up. They used to make fun of me when I first got to prison. If I saw trash in the cell block where I lived, I'd pick it up. Hey, white boy, that's not your trash, man. Leave it there. So it is my trash. It's the front of my house, man. I want to clean my house up. They caught on. Those guys started taking pride in themselves. I learned about servant leadership. I think servant leadership is when you help other people reach their goals in life. You help raise everybody to a different station in life. Because I think when we help other people grow, we grow too.

[Damon West]

That's what Oprah did.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, Oprah was. But that's what y' all do. You have a, you have this podcast, you know, you help people grow. And that's what servant leadership is, by you helping other people grow. You've grown too. You've grown. I mean, I think it's the most.

[Damon West]

Satisfying thing you can, can do.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Damon West]

Which is why it's so powerful when that guy, the caterer comes up to you.

[Lauren Everts]

It's also like, you know, people come, people come to us at this point in our life and they say, like, you know, how do you build a career? How do you make an income? And I'm like, well, if you, if you look at it from the perspective of you're just going to help other people and raise them up, like that part actually takes care of itself.

[Michael Bostick]

And that's so true.

[Lauren Everts]

And it's, it's even, even this company we run, like, you know, we have this show obviously, and it seems maybe some people think it's counterproductive to go and raise a bunch of other shows up. And I'm like, well, like it's, it's, it's rewarding and also self serving in a way. Like when you put that out there, I just feel like the other stuff takes care of itself. Like, it's almost like it's like a little woo, woo.

[Michael Bostick]

But the energy universe loves that, by the way. And look, I mean, I'm, I'm not. You can call it God, karma, irony, the universe, whatever you want to call it. Right? Everybody can believe whatever they want to believe in. I'm a person, I'm a very spiritual person, Michael I, I think religion is more of a man made deal. And the spirituality is your conscious contact with whatever you call God. And you can believe whenever you want. I had a spiritual awakening in prison. I had a spiritual awakening. I became a different version of me. It was like a caterpillar that goes into a cocoon and becomes a butterfly. It just happens to be my cocoon was a dungeon.

[Damon West]

How long were you there for?

[Michael Bostick]

7 years, 3 months and 18 days.

[Damon West]

And how did you get out?

[Lauren Everts]

And wait, did those days go fast or they did go slow or do you just kind of.

[Damon West]

They probably went slow.

[Lauren Everts]

Or do you lose concepts of time?

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, you, you, you, you understand time. Well, there, there's a saying in prison. They tell you, you got to do your time. You can't let your time do you. And that's something for everybody out here to listen to, because let me tell you something, everybody listen to this thing. I meet more people out in the free world that are locked up than I ever did when I served time in a real prison because more people are imprisoned by their thoughts, by their things and by their prejudices than by steel bars and barbed wire and concrete combined.

[Damon West]

That makes sense. I, I can see what you're saying.

[Michael Bostick]

You can become a prisoner own mind really fast. Scroll through social media, get. Start comparing yourself to other people's lives. Prison, Right, prison. You get locked into one of these programs that calls, it calls themselves news, whether it comes from the left or the right. But they're just pumping this hate inside you every day you become a prisoner. If you're, if you're watching something that, it's called news, but it makes you feel angry every time you watch it. Turn it off, change the channel, man. You are what you eat, right? And so in prison I learned, I had a spiritual awakening. I learned about servant leadership. And my servant leadership project in prison was I opened a free tutoring service. I had a bachelor's degree, went to prison. Most of the guys I'm locked up with, their education stopped in the seventh or eighth grade. So I taught guys how to read and write. I get them ready for the GED test. So if they ever get out of prison, they're going to be a better husband or better father. And everything in prison has a cost attached to it. Everything is transactional. Nothing's free in prison. So the guys are like, man, how do I pay you for teaching me how to read? Pay it forward, man. Don't pay me back. Pay it forward. And so you have these guys helping other people out because I got to pay this back. I got to pay this forward to West. I'm going to do it for you. And that guy's like, well, you can't pay me, go pay it forward to someone else. Prison changed around me. 2015, I'd done seven years of time. I work in the chapel. At that point, I've turned it around. I am the coffee bean. I'm a model inmate, man. Life is moving. Some days are harder than others, right? And I'm up for my first parole now. No one makes that first parole. Not many people make the first. I won't say no one. That's a, that's an absolute, I don't want to talk in absolutes. Most people never make their first parole in a life sentence. In my life sentence, I come up for parole because I'm non aggravated. I get credit for good time. Every day you're there, you don't get in trouble, you get extra credit every day you're there, you're willing to work, you get credit for time too. So at seven years I was eligible for my first, first parole in a life sentence.

[Lauren Everts]

And so okay, how many in say you, you have a few of these paroles come up. How often do they come up and is it different for everybody or is it.

[Michael Bostick]

Good question. This is a solid question here because here's the deal. Your first parole is important. Your first parole is your one first shot to get to explain to yourself. To parole. You actually get an interview the first time. You're not guaranteed an interview every time after that, but parole actually has to interview you on the first parole hearing. Now parole is a panel of three people. For a non aggravated crime, you have to get two of the three votes, which means you really have to get the first vote. Right? Because the second voter is going to vote the way the first person vote. In my mind, that's the way it works. Maybe that's not really how parole works, but you've got to get the first voter to believe in you, to buy into you and your set off for a non aggravated crime could be a year before you come up for parole. If you have aggravated offense in Texas, you have to do half of your sentence before you see parole. Now remember what the maximum is, you can get 60, right? So the act, the guys I live with that have aggravated life sentences, which is about 98 of the people around me, they have to do 30 calendar years before they see the first parole officer. Wow, where does your hope go at that point? Do you have hope if you don't you know what the joke was on the building where I lived, man, they'd say, man, my first parole officer's parents haven't met yet. My first parole officer's parents haven't met yet. That's how far away parole is for them.

[Damon West]

I don't get that. My first.

[Michael Bostick]

My first parole officer that I'll have in the free world one day. Their parents haven't met yet, meaning, like.

[Lauren Everts]

They haven't even had the person yet.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Now you. I can see in her eyes, she's like, oh, wow. My first parole officer's parents haven't even met each other yet. That's what they would say. On the building I live, there's no hope in that building. So I come up for parole in 2015. I go to my parole hearing because it was non aggravated, non aggravated, right? So, you know, and. And I've got a parole packet this parole. Parole packets and everything you've done and how you. Have you transformed. And man, the lady is just like, man, she's like, look, we don't see a lot of people like you come through the system. She's like, you had it all. Every advantage, every privilege, every opportunity. She said, you're the definition of a privileged person. And listen, y', all, she was right. I did. I had it all. I mean, much like the way y' all grew up and you don't, prison wasn't on my bingo card, just like it wasn't on Yalls, right? And she said, but you blew through all your opportunities in life. You became a drug addict, a criminal, a thief, a jury gave you life insurance in prison. And she said, I believe you got too much time, too. She said, but I'm going to ask you one question. This one question, you know, this one question is going to determine whether I go home or stay in prison. She said, if you could be remembered for being anything in life, anything at all, she said, tell me what that one thing would be, but give it to me in just one word. Go. Oh. I didn't have to think about that answer. I knew the answer because I've been living the answer, right? I build my. I was building my brand ever, ever since that day when I was in. In the dungeon, started working on myself, becoming a coffee bean. I was building the brand that you see today. Remember, there's no such thing as overnight success. When 2011, you didn't see this, any of this happening, but you kept putting in the work every day, right? I knew the answer and I fired it off there. I said, useful I said, I just want to be useful. And I. I think everybody wants to be useful, y'. All. I think everybody wants to have value. I think at the core of being human, and this is from living in prison and living out here, I think we all just want to belong and we want to be loved. And when those two things can be met in life, human beings are capable from pretty incredible things. That's what I told her. I said, I just want to be useful, and I can be useful inside this prison. I could be useful in the free world again. November 16, 2015. I walked out of a Texas prison. Now I'm not a free man. I want to get to the end of the story to tell this part. I'm not a free man. I got a little more time left on parole in Texas now, parole means you're on supervised release. You're still locked up, technically, being on parole. Every month, I report to a parole officer in Beaumont, a woman. Name is Braggs. I pee in a cup. I pay my fines. I get travel permits. When I want to leave Texas, I get permission from Texas. Now I get off parole in the year 2073. So 48 more years, Lauren, on parole in the state of Texas. I'm on parole the rest of my life.

[Damon West]

Is there anything you miss about prison?

[Michael Bostick]

The time on your hands to concentrate and work on yourself? You'll never have anything like that. That's what Carlos told me, too. He said, man, Carlos was the one that really told me how to change it. He said, this is your problem. Your problem is you think prison's a punishment when prison is an opportunity, Literally.

[Damon West]

That's so funny that you say that, because sometimes I'm like, my husband would love to. To go to prison.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, that's. I don't think.

[Damon West]

No, no. I just mean, like. Like, you, like, for. You love being cerebral and left alone with your thoughts and your books. And I don't like. I feel like.

[Lauren Everts]

But I do, like, also, like the ability to come back from being.

[Damon West]

But I mean, like, if you have to look at it as an opportunity to survive.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Damon West]

So you were able to have no distraction and just focus on yourself when you were inside.

[Michael Bostick]

But that's what he said. You got 24 hours a day, seven days a week to become the best.

[Lauren Everts]

I imagine that, like, you know, life in general is very stressful, and there's a lot of decision. Imagine, like, a lot of those decisions. Decisions. Yeah. A lot of that stuff is gone.

[Michael Bostick]

What you're going to wear, what you're going to do. All that's gone, man. But you have to fill your days. You asked me about days, some days being longer than others. I filled my day up with stuff. I'd get up every day. I had a regimen. I'd read, I'd work, work out. I'd serve people. You know, I'd do everything I could to fill my day up. I, you know, I'd go to work when I finally got a chance to get a job in there, I'd go to work every day. I'd fill my day up with stuff. So when I came home at the end of the day, I was tired, I was ready to go to bed. I was felt fulfilled. One of the best rehabilitated programs in a Texas prison is that they allow you to have a job. A job is a great thing, right? It gives you value in life. You have a. A day's wage of what you did. You don't get paid in prison, but for working. But you get paid in a different way. You get a habit that you build. You know, you get up every day. You go up, you have a purpose. You come home, people are waiting on you. Whenever you went to work, you do your job, you come home. The number one indicator of whether or not you're going to succeed after prison is whether or not you can have a job, whether you can find a job and hold down a job. That's the number one indicator. Now, go ahead. No. So when I get out of prison, I know I'm sitting on this incredible story, right? My redemption story is incredible. I know it because I just lived it. And the message of the Coffee Bean, I mean, like. But the problem was there weren't a lot of places for me to share the story. And I found out really quickly, you can't go knock on the door of a high school and say, I just got out of prison. I want to talk to your kids, chase you down the street. So there weren't a lot of places for me to speak. And I knew I wanted to share my story because I knew I had a powerful story. And I would learn. I'd watch people on YouTube that are speakers, man. That's how I learned how to speak. I watch YouTube speakers. And I found out, here's another one you're going to love. Everyone's a teacher. Some people teach you how to do things the right way. Some people teach you how not to do things. So I learned from everybody I watched, even if it was a bad speaker, I'd learn how not to be a speaker, right? Every Night. For two years, I'd practice my presentation in front of a mirror in my parents spare bedroom. This little mirror my mom had in that room when I moved in, a little vanity mirror my mom had in there. So every night for two years, I practiced my presentation from that mirror. I get in my reps. Remember, no such thing as an overnight success. You got to put in the work. And so there's nowhere for me to speak. So I'm speaking in front of a mirror. I get polished, I get my presentation down, and I get myself ready for the right opportunity. Because I believe the right opportunity was going to be the world of college football. Because I. I played Division 1 college football. But the problem was when I got out of prison, it's been 20 years. I took a snap. The coaches don't know me. I don't know them. January 11, 2017.

[Damon West]

You're great with dates, man.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I mean, I've looked at.

[Damon West]

Hell, I don't even know what date.

[Michael Bostick]

It is today, but I wrote books about it. So, I mean, I got the dates down. So January 11, 2017, a buddy of mine in Houston named Mike Orda, he works for khou, the big CBS station there, he calls me up. I've been out of prison 14 months at this point. He calls me up. He said, damon, get to Houston right now. He said, it's the Bear Bryant Coach of the Year award. They're going to name the best college football coach in America. I said, the eight best coaches in the country are in this room right now. He said, I got an extra press pass. I'll sneak you in the. In the back door. So, man, I drive the 90, 90 miles away from Beaumont to Houston. Man, I drive the 90 miles. He sneaks me in the back door. Toyota center hands me a press pass. He said, you're on your own, man. I got to go to work. So I'm in this room, y', all, and every coach is there. Usc, Wisconsin, Penn State, PJ Fleck, they're all there. And I run around this room and I shake every coach's hand and I give them my pitch of why they should bring me in to talk to their team. And every coach I meet that night slammed the door in my face. They all said no in one hour. Lauren, I got seven no's from eight coaches. That's a no every eight minutes. I'm standing in the corner Toyota center that night. I'm 10ft from the door. I'm licking my wounds. I'm feeling sorry for myself. And the voice in my head is screaming at me, go home. The voice in my head is telling me things like, you don't belong in this room. Why'd you come tonight? The voice in my head called me an imposter. And I bet everybody listening right now, you know the imposter voice, right? You've heard it before. But I'm gonna tell you what I quit doing a long time ago, and I learned this in prison. I quit listening to myself a long time ago. And the reason why I quit listening to myself is because sometimes the voice in my head that was talking to me was fear talking to me. And, man, you don't want to listen to fear because fear's a liar. So instead of listening myself, I talk to myself, man, I do it all the time. So that night, I'm telling myself, damon, you're not going anywhere. That last coach is going to tell you no to your face before you go home. And the last coach is the hardest guy to get to in the room. His team just beat Alabama two nights before for the national championship. Everybody is in line to talk to this coach. They all want their picture with him. But I remind myself, michael, I remind myself, you survived prison, Damon. This isn't prison. This is gonna hurt like prison did. Man, Sometimes in life, we need to remind ourselves of a time we succeeded, you know? That's the memory we need to hold on to. When you're faced with something difficult, think about the wins. Focus on the wins. So that night, I stalked Dabo Sweeney around that room. The head coach at Clemson. I look at a crazy person. I'm hiding behind fake plants. I'm pushing people out of the way. Dabo sees me. Security sees me, too. I mean, it's just, who's going to get there first? I finally get in front of Dabo, and I give him my pitch why he should bring me in to talk to his team, and it falls flat. Dabo, he looks terrified. First of all, he's like, man, you got a card on you. I gave him a card. He was nice enough. He said, I'll check you out. He was gone. That's a no. I'd seen that no before that night, but I felt good about that last no, y', all, because I left it all on the field, right? One of the biggest lessons I learned from playing sports, the biggest takeaway is you'll give it all you got. Sometimes you lose or, Muhammad, you don't have to win all your fights. You got to fight all your fights. So I went home that night. I slept Like a baby. I forgot about the night because I gave it all I had. Four months later, I get an email out of the blues. The director of football operations at Clemson University, guy named Mike Dewey. Mike Dewey's email said, hey, Damon, Coach Sweeney met you at award show in Houston. He'd love to have you come talk to his team. Do you have August 1st open? I got every first open, brother. I got. I'm talking to a mirror, man. So August 1, 2017, I go speak to the Clemson Tigers, the defending national champions of college football. And when I get done with my presentation tonight, Dabo is in my face, man. He's like, that's the most amazing story I've ever heard, Damon. I've never seen my players respond like that to a speaker. He said, have you been to Alabama to talk to their football team? And I'm like, no, man. I've been to Clemson. I hadn't been anywhere, man. What do you mean, Alabama? He said, man, I just text Nick Saban from the back of the room, told him what I was watching, man. The next day, Michael, when my flight lands in Houston for my trip to Clemson, I turn my phone on. There's a voicemail and a text message from the director of football operations at the University of Alabama. The Whale. The biggest program in America with the best coach to ever do it. Here's what the voicemail said. Hey, Damon, Dabo called Coach Saban last night. Coach Saban cannot wait to hear your story. He said, how does August 21, 7:30pm work for your calendar? I laughed out loud. I didn't have a calendar, man. I didn't need a calendar back then. Just like that, Dabo Sweeney kicked open the biggest door to college football. And Dabo didn't stop there because Kirby Smart calls Lincoln Riley, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Ryan Day. Every coach in America starts blowing my phone up. When are you coming to talk to my team? So the dream is real. It's happening. But the biggest event had to happen yet. I hadn't met this second servant leader that was going to run. Dabo was the first servant leader, right? The second servant leader. August of 2018, one year after their first procession at Clemson, I get a phone call out of the blue. And on the other end of my phone is this guy named John Gordon. Now, y', all, John Gordon is one of the biggest motivational speakers and authors in America. This is the energy Buzz guy. Y' all should have John on your show. Actually, John is massive, man. He's. He's written 33 books. They're all bestsellers.

[Damon West]

We'd love it.

[Michael Bostick]

He is a mad. He's one of the biggest motivational speakers authors in America. He's on my phone. I'm like, john, I know who you are, man. How do you know who I am? He said, dabo Sweeney. He said, damon, I just got done speaking to Clemson's team today. Dabo brought me office for 30 minutes to tell me your whole life story. John said this before the pandemic. John said, damon, the world needs a Coffee Bean message. Damon, let's deliver this message to the world. He said, will you write a book with me? We'll call it the Coffee Bean. In the summer of 2019, y', all, 10 years after I first heard that story from Muhammad in a jail cell, that book, the Coffee Bean came out, took the world by storm. The whole planet, y'. All. It starts off in America first, right? Four to six weeks. It rides high at the top of every bestseller list. Gets a global publishing deal.

[Damon West]

Wow.

[Michael Bostick]

It starts getting every language in the world. The books are popping up in Chinese and Spanish and Arabic, French, Italian, German. And in 2020, a global pandemic hits. The entire world becomes a pot of boiling water. And the entire world will search for the right message like Chandabelle will search for the right message. And that's when so many people discovered the Coffee Bean guy, y'. All. My life went like this. Just vertical. Just took off. Since 2021, I've been on the road 20 to 25 days of every month, somewhere on the planet, sharing this story. But it all goes back to that one night in Houston, Texas, January 11, 2017. Remember that night? I had seven nose in one hour. And I'm standing by the door getting ready to walk out and leave because the voice in my head told me I didn't belong in that room. And if I walk out that door that night, y', all, we're not having this conversation today. And the world doesn't have the Coffee Bean message. So what I want everybody to know listening to this is you don't give up because life gets tough. You don't quit because it gets hard. You don't not ask your questions in life. The only question you know the answer to in life is the one you do not ask. That answer is no every time because you didn't ask your question. I think Wayne Gretzky actually said it best. Wayne Gretzky said you miss 100% of shots that you do not take. So you have to take your shots in life.

[Damon West]

Wow. You Told me you were good at stories. You said you were a good storyteller.

[Michael Bostick]

I got a few more for you.

[Damon West]

I'm sure you do. I don't. I mean, I feel like you need to come back for a part Two.

[Michael Bostick]

You want to know what happened to Muhammad.

[Damon West]

I do. I was going to ask you off air because I didn't know.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah.

[Damon West]

That was an appropriate question. I actually was wondering that.

[Michael Bostick]

So the book Six Dimes a Nickel. I wrote that book because it's about everything that's happened in my life.

[Lauren Everts]

This is the newest book.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. It comes out in July. So it's pre order right now. Get on Amazon right now.

[Damon West]

Sure. Both of these books and the Coffee Bean you can't put down after hearing you say, yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

So six Dimes of Nickel tells the whole story about what happened in my life afterwards. Because here's the deal. We talked about the universe a while ago. Universe is pleased when you do things out there. I believe my purpose. So many blessings have come into my life. But those blessings come with spiritual strings attached to them. It's not all for me. I've got to find a way to spread this around. So one of the most important thing when I got out was finding Muhammad. I had to find Muhammad to tell him. I made it. I became the Coffee Bean. And I start looking for him. And Muhammad's not his real name. That was the hard part. Muhammad's his Muslim name. When a person converts to Islam, they get rid of their real name. They take on a Muslim name. Kind of like Cassius Clay becomes Muhammad Ali. So I don't have his real name or birthday. I don't have vital information to find him. And I have to hope at this point he finds me. Three years ago, I got a letter from an inmate, the Texas prison system. And the inmate wrote the letter to me. He said, hey, find James Lynn Baker, and you find Muhammad. So seven years I waited for this clue. I go back to Dallas. My lawyer finds a private investigator. We find his criminal record matched everything he told me. County jail had him in Dallas County Jail when I was there in 09. So I know this is my friend. All we got to do is find his current address. But we never did find his current address because James Lynn Baker ii, Muhammad, he died of an opiate overdose in Dallas, Texas, on May 9, 2017. Muhammad's been dead eight years now. Integrity is who you are when no one else is watching you. That's that little bug in your ear that tells you to do the right thing. Even if you can get away with the wrong thing, right? I told my lawyer that day, I said, listen, man, I owe my life to this guy. Now that he's dead, I feel like we need to go find his family, because his family needs to know what he did in my life. He needs redemption, too. That's one of the things I found out about the Coffee Bean, that he wouldn't just give me that message so I could redeem myself. He gave me that message so I could come back and redeem him one day. I find his family comes from a dynamic family. His little sister, a woman named Von Seal Baker. In 1972, von Seal Baker was the first Dallas Cowboy cheerleader ever, first woman to ever wear that uniform. His mother opened the first licensed black daycare in Dallas, 1948. So he came from a really good family. So I called his family up, and I said, hey, listen, I said, I'm gonna start a scholarship in your brother's name. We'll call it the James Lynn Baker ii. Be a Coffee Bean scholarship. I'll fund it every year for the rest of my Life. I'll put $10,000 into a trust. And every year, I want your family to pick the winner so that every year, one little boy or one little girl that grows up in his old neighborhood, they get out. They get a better chance at life through education because these two guys met up in county jail back in 09, and all the sisters took me up on it, man. Every year, they pick a scholarship winner. Every year, one of these kids goes to college. One of them is a little girl named Megan, man. Her name mother's a school teacher. Her dad's a disabled veteran. Right now, Megan's sitting in class at Texas A M. She's gonna be an engineer one day. Y' all really cool. Found Muhammad. Now, the last thing I want to share with y', all, obviously, I got married. I've got a family. I got married on May 18, 2019, Lauren. So 10 years to the day that I got sentenced to life in prison, I got married for the first time. I became a husband and a stepfather.

[Damon West]

Congratulations.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Yeah. So my wife is a woman named Kendall. My little stepdaughter named Clara. Claire's. She's 13 now. It's. It's cool, man. It's cool role to be a stepfather in a little girl's life and to be a husband. And, you know, my mom. My mom lives with me now. I built both her house, so my mom lives with me.

[Damon West]

You got to put the footprints thing up.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, they're in her house. So. Yeah. But one of the coolest things, and I want y' all to see that. The whole full circle of redemption, because I think that your listeners will probably. Some of them probably wondering if any of the victims have ever reached out to me for my crimes. Right? And that's a real question, right? Do any of the victims reach out? Now, we know I can't apologize to my victims, and I can't respond even.

[Lauren Everts]

If they reach out.

[Michael Bostick]

Even if they reach out. And so.

[Damon West]

And you would do it if you could.

[Michael Bostick]

It sounds like can't answer that question.

[Damon West]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Bostick]

I can't.

[Damon West]

Wow.

[Michael Bostick]

I can't apologize or even make it look like I'm apologizing. I can't do anything like that. But this is a story in six dimes and a nickel that I told now. Victims have reached out to me, and most of the time, it's not great. A couple of times it's been okay. I mean, it's. You know, they're not. I understand it, too, because I stole these people's sense of security, right? I did something terrible to them. I can't fix it. I can't replace it. And I understand their anger at me. And, you know, it's hard. The biggest victim of all my crimes. There was a. It was the last weekend of our burglary sprees in July of 2008. Dustin and I break into this condo building uptown, Dallas. And we go into this lady's condo. She's out of town. We knew she was out of town. We go in there, and we take her electronics and all that. And there's a safe in the closet. And we. We break into the safe, and there's a diamond ring in there. So we steal the diamond ring, what we didn't see inside of her apartment. This is why she's the biggest victim of all my victims, y'. All. What we didn't see in her apartment was a trifold American flag. The KIA plaque that was next to the flag. That ring belonged to her dead fiance who stepped on IED in Iraq in 2007.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, God.

[Michael Bostick]

Defending our country. Oh, defending the rights of a scumbag like me. Her fiance died for this country, and we stole the last memory she had of him. Y'. All, this is the first witness at my trial, and I remember it vividly. I carried that memory around with me everywhere around that prison, y'. All. There wasn't a place I didn't go that. That memory didn't go with me. I felt like it was My penance, it was almost like a toxic companion I had to take around with me because a reminder of what I did to these people. Man, I was a bad guy. Even though I didn't physically hurt somebody, I was a bad guy. So in 2020, this reporter in Dallas named Kevin Reese, real good reporter for wfaa, he wanted to do a story on me. And I've avoided Dallas this whole time. I've been out of prison. Remember, I've been out in 2020. I've been out for five years. It's five years ago. And I finally agreed to do the story under a few conditions. One is that there's no apology and. But you let me explain why I can't apologize. Because a story about a guy that's doing great in life and overcoming without an apology looks really weird, right? Like, why didn't he apologize for what he did? So I have to put in there, I can't apologize. I won't apologize. And here's why. The other thing is, I want you to let me tell the audience that I was a bad guy and I was a scumbag. And Kevin let me do that. He told a really good story on WFA that night in January of 2020. That night, after the story, there was two emails in my inbox. The first email was from one of the detectives that took me down all those years ago. And it wasn't a good email, y'.

[Damon West]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

You know, he's basically saying you were. You were a fast talker then, you're a fast talker now. I don't believe any of it. I don't believe the transformation at all. And I sat with that email for a second. You know, I thought, why would he write that? And. But then I thought, you know what? He's entitled his opinion. And he represented society. When he took me down, I broke the social contract. He represented society. I didn't respond to his email because I'm no longer a criminal and he doesn't have any power over me. So I let it go. Other people's opinions of you are none of your business, by the way. And that's something I Learned in my 12 steps. Other people's opinions of you are none of your business. So I let him go. That's his opinion. He's titled that. The second email, it stopped me in my tracks. The subject line said, damon, I forgive you, and it was from a name I did not recognize. I want to open the email up. I saw it was from her, the biggest victim. So she goes to this Email, and I'm gonna read it to you. This email's hard to read, y'. All. She is. She's telling me about the burglary from her perspective. I get it from the victim's angle. As she walks in, first thing she runs to is the safe, right? That's the only thing she cares about in the whole house. The safe door is busted open, the ring is gone, and it's gone for good. And she's struggling in the email, you can see she's struggling going back and forth with seeing me on the news that night, too. And she finally gets to the end of the email. I'm gonna read y' all what she wrote with that. I'd like to say I forgive you. I'm moving on, that I'm moving on. In the hope that you're a genuine person with a good heart, and the hope that you put others before money or fame as you share your story, and the hope that you and your family never experience great loss or violation. Most importantly, in the hope that you feel peace in knowing that we are saved from mistakes that we make in this world, thanks to the unfailing love of Christ. Life is such a gift. Made you live it to the fullest, Damon.

[Damon West]

Wow.

[Michael Bostick]

And that was the full circle moment in everything, like, the biggest. I can't apologize to her. I can never ask for her, forget. She showed me so much grace, y'. All. Grace is hard. Grace always cost a person giving it more than it costs the person who receives it. What did it cost her to do that? You know? But, I mean, that's the program recovery at work, y'.

[Damon West]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

When a person works a program recovery, they find out that God, whatever you believe God is, can do things for you you couldn't do for yourself. And by working my program every day, by just getting up every day, kind of like you talk about just getting up every day looking for ways to serve other people. Everything has fixed itself in life. Life has been totally changed. I'm a good person that goes out and finds ways to serve other people. I got a prayer that I pray every morning. I've been praying since I got into 12 steps in prison. I get up every day and, you know, I do a little prayer and meditation in the morning, I think, you know, prayer is when you talk to God, and meditation is when you listen to God. And every morning, my prayer is the same one I've been praying since prison. I ask God for two things. Put in front of me what you need me to do today for you, and Let me recognize it when I see it because I don't want to miss whatever that is.

[Damon West]

It's probably cathartic for her to be able to email you that she forgives you. I think that is, like, it's so nice for her. Her probably.

[Michael Bostick]

That's what. That's. That's the thing. That's the. That's the thing that's Was so, like in the 12 steps, you work the steps and you have. The eighth step is when you have a list of all the people you've harmed. The ninth step is when you make an apology, you make an amends. And the amends are important because the. The biggest thing an amends does is it allows the other person you've harmed to free themselves of whatever you've done to them. Right. And the other thing an amends can do when you make an amends to somebody is. Can free you from the resentment you feel towards yourself. And not being able to make an amends to somebody that's hard can hold you back. And so in recovery, though, they have this thing called a living amends. This is so cool, y'. All. The living amends is when you go out and do good deeds and you expect nothing in return. And that's what you do when you have apologies you can't make because to do so would cause them or you harm. And my entire life has been living amends, and my entire life is going to continue to be living amends. I find ways to serve other people every day because I believe that that's how I'm going to make it right in this world. So.

[Damon West]

Wow, what a story. You are very, very inspirational. I think everyone should go pick up all three of your books. Where.

[Lauren Everts]

If they're going to start, where should they start? With the Coffee Bean?

[Michael Bostick]

I think they should start with Six Dimes and a Nickel because it's the most recent book and it's the book where I got to tell the whole story. Now the Change Agent is the one. Lauren's going to love the Change Agent, because it's all prison culture stuff. It happens mostly inside of a prison. But the Six Dimes of Nickel has a prison story, too. But there's also this big story that's going on after prison because I think people want to see the full redemption story. When I wrote the Change Agent, all these things hadn't happened in life. You know, I just barely met Dabo. I started speaking. I wasn't even married at the time. You know, I mean. But Six Dimes in a Nickel is Everything. What Six Dimes in a Nickel is. It's basically a memoir, but it's these personal development nuggets, right? Every chapter is a life lesson, a life principle. I live my life by the body of the chapter is a story behind the principle. Remember storytelling? People learn and are entertained through stories. I'm a really good storyteller. I've gotten good at that. And at the end of each chapter is a reflection on how you apply that principle in your life. So I think Six Dimes in a Nickel is the one book you need to get that encompasses the change date to the Coffee Bean and everything. So six dimes, a nickel, definitely.

[Damon West]

I want all three. Damon, so many people said you'd be amazing on a mic. Ed Mylett was not wrong.

[Lauren Everts]

You did not fail to deliver, my friend. You did not fail.

[Michael Bostick]

That was great. Thank you all. I'd love to come back on another.

[Damon West]

Anytime you want to come, come back. Where can everyone find you on Instagram and say hello and support what you're doing?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, so my Instagram is at Damon West 7 and people find me to speak. My website is Damon West.org and. And look, I speak to all sizes of companies. Like, I believe that every company needs the message the Coffee Bean. It's that message that tells us.

[Damon West]

Great message.

[Michael Bostick]

The powers inside us change the world around.

[Damon West]

So I don't want to be the limp dick carrot.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but I mean, I want people to know. But it's like I'm not one of those guys that is like, oh, my God, this guy rides around a private jet and stuff like that. No, I'm just a regular guy. Like, I speak to Fortune 1000s and I speak to, you know, extreme exteriors in Abilene, Texas, the landscaping and pool company. You know, I speak to everybody's company. So I want. I want to go out and share this message with as many people as possible.

[Damon West]

Really, really cool message. Maybe I can come with Michael to speak at a prison. I'm interested in than that.

[Michael Bostick]

Definitely.

[Lauren Everts]

If we do that. Give me the. The sack with the fan.

[Michael Bostick]

I will tell y', all, November will be the next opportunity to do it.

[Damon West]

Okay?

[Michael Bostick]

So if y' all are in, if y'. All, I mean, like, we're going to get you some number numbers after this. I'm not messing with y'. All. I'm dead serious. I'll bring y' all into a prison.

[Lauren Everts]

We'll do it.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, you. You get the VIP treatment in there and we'll go to a women's prison in Gatesville, Texas. Y', all, I realized something I've been missing when I did the elf on the shelf stuff, when I went to women's prisons and did the elf on the shelf thing. I don't. I haven't been doing enough in women's prisons. Those. Those ladies need more brought to them, I'm sure.

[Damon West]

Yeah, a lot of them are mothers.

[Michael Bostick]

They have a. They have a podcast in prison. Lauren. They have a. They have a podcast in prison that goes out to 11 different states prison systems.

[Damon West]

Oh, my God. You have to look at that. That is so cool.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Lauren Everts]

It's called monetized.

[Michael Bostick]

It's called the Tank. The Tank is because in prison, when you live in a pod, it's called a tank. You live on a tank, Right? So the Tank, it's run by these ladies on the women's prison, It's a female host on the lady tank. They have a male tank. One of the male prisons in East Texas, but they have two different tank podcasts, the ladies Tank and the men's tank. Cool. And it's a real podcast.

[Damon West]

Well, sign us.

[Lauren Everts]

You're great.

[Michael Bostick]

Thanks a lot, y'.

[Lauren Everts]

All.

[Michael Bostick]

Mike Horn. Thanks a lot.