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The Bossticks
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni On Advice For Young Entrepreneurs, & How To Build The Start Up Of Your Dreams
01:21:01
#874: Join us as we sit down with Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni – entrepreneurs, advocates, Stanford grads, & hosts of The Burnouts podcast. As co-founders of Phia, a cutting-edge digital fashion platform, Phoebe & Sophia are...
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- [00:00]
Lauren Everts
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.
- [00:08]
Michael Bostick
Fantastic.
- [00:09]
Lauren Everts
And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick.
- [00:15]
Phoebe Gates
Are bringing you along for the ride.
- [00:16]
Michael Bostick
Get ready for some major realness.
- [00:18]
Lauren Everts
Welcome to the Skinny Confidential.
- [00:21]
Michael Bostick
Him and her. This is a fun one. Today we have Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kiani on the show. They are the hosts of the podcast the Burnouts and they're entrepreneurs. And this episode was all about activism, entrepreneurship, digital fashion. We talked all about their childhoods, we unpacked their friendship, we even talked dating. Anyway, it was fun to sit down with two Gen Z powerhouses who not only have built a future facing fashion brand, but also to talk to two women who are redefining what it means to be young, outspoken and unapologetically driven. You may know Phoebe Gates as a fierce reproductive rights advocate and Sophia Kiani as the climate crusader who made history at the un and today they have founded this incredible brand and they co host the podcast the Burnouts. Like I said, I personally really enjoyed interviewing them and we did a swap. I am on the Burnouts. I don't do a ton of other podcasts, so this was a fun one to do. On that note, let's welcome Phoebe and Sophia to the show.
- [01:32]
Lauren Everts
This is the Skinny Confidential.
- [01:34]
Phoebe Gates
Him and her.
- [01:37]
Michael Bostick
How did you both meet each other?
- [01:39]
Sophia Kiani
So you know like when you have a really good like, girlfriend, but like they have another girlfriend, so you know everything about that girlfriend's life, but you're like, not actually super close with her, but you see her and you know everything about her. So that was our relationship. Lo and behold, we really wanted this like triple room, right? So we applied with the other girl and. And she ends up like not living with us and going to live with her boyfriend instead. So at the last minute, it's the two of us. We don't know each other at all. I seen Sophia, she's a huge climate activist. She'd work for the un. So I'm like freaking out. I'm like, oh God, this can be such a boring year. I knew she was sober. I was like throwing away all my fast fashion like tank tops before I moved in with her. And we really didn't know each other well and then ended up becoming super, super close as roommates.
- [02:20]
Michael Bostick
So you are working for the UN when you guys come in together?
- [02:24]
Lauren Everts
Yes, similar to my college experience.
- [02:26]
Michael Bostick
No, totally, completely opposite of it.
- [02:28]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah. So basically, and I guess like to give the context, so me and Phoebe are Both really good friends with this one girl. But to live in the building we wanted to live in, you need to live in a triple. So it's like we both wanted to room with her and she's like, you guys should be friends. So then it was like the three of us were supposed to room together. And I thought Phoebe was really cool. Like, she was also doing, like reproductive rights activism and I was, I was doing climate activism. So, like, I started at a non profit and then I was appointed to the UN's Youth Advisory Council.
- [02:56]
Sophia Kiani
We both had very limited social lives.
- [02:58]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah, we were both like, nerdy and into activism. So I was like, okay, we're going to be friends. But it was really awkward because we were like friends of a friend, you know, we weren't like friends friends. So we both moved in and we're.
- [03:09]
Michael Bostick
Like, like, what is in the water with you in your childhoods? Like, what. How does, how do I give Zaza the water that you guys drink? Like, you're, you're going to town's just.
- [03:22]
Lauren Everts
Going to be dehydrated. He's not going to get any of this water.
- [03:24]
Michael Bostick
We have two children, both of them, but like their girl. I'm talking from a woman's perspective. What are your parents doing to set you both up to attend Stanford, start a podcast, interview Kris Jenner as the first guest, work at the U. S. Work at the U. N. And start a company as entrepreneurs? Like, what, what it. What was your childhood like?
- [03:45]
Sophia Kiani
Well, our childhoods are very different, right. I come from a huge place of privilege, right? So Bill Gates, I grew up, you know, watching him build Microsoft. And then my parents, like, my dad retires and they start the foundation together. So I grew up with a ton of opportunities where I knew, like, my education would be paid for. I'm sure a huge part of me getting into Stanford was probably my last name. Like, and I was given, you know, like, the activism stuff came to me naturally because my parents would take me on trips to Africa every summer, so I would see the work there. And then when Roe v. Wade got overturned, I was like, well, this is a super important issue to me. And I was lucky enough to be able to write an op ed because of who my family was. So I was kind of born into this position. And then I always saw, you know, my parents worked super hard, and so I think I got part of that. But Sophia's upbringing is very, very different. She's just, I think, cracked from the womb.
- [04:31]
Phoebe Gates
I think that's super kind of you. I mean, I. I grew up in McLean, Virginia, so, like, in the suburbs of D.C. and so both of my parents were Iranian immigrants. Like, my mom's a teacher, my dad works for the government. So it was like a very normal, traditional, middle class childhood. But, I mean, my parents worked so hard to come to the US From Iran.
- [04:50]
Michael Bostick
And.
- [04:51]
Phoebe Gates
And I think growing up, I felt an enormous amount of responsibility knowing that I had access to, like, the best education in the world, things they could never dream of. And I mean, growing up, like, climate change was a huge issue in my life because in Iran, in the Middle east, like, temperatures are rising more than twice the global average. And I just became very interested in environmental activism, so I started a nonprofit. And then I ended up getting appointed to the un and then I applied to transfer to Stanford. But it was just something that I always, like, really cared about. And I would definitely say that, like, I just grew up wanting to prove myself and really wanting to make sure I made the most of the opportunities that I had been given because I felt super lucky. But I think what was so awesome about me and Phoebe is that despite definitely coming from different backgrounds, there was so much that we had in common. Just from the perspective of, like, we both really just wanted to prove ourselves, like, for different reasons, but we both had, like, this undying desire to. To create positive change in the world, like, to work on our activism and also like, to create things. And I think that's why, like, we immediately, even though in the beginning it was really awkward and we were like, I don't know how well we're going to get along. We immediately became really good friends and bonded over, like, our parents, divorces, bad high school breakups. Like, there was just a lot that we had in common.
- [06:08]
Sophia Kiani
There's also, like, this. A lot of Stanford is like, there's just so much imposter syndrome when you show up because you think like, you. You're a smart person. And then you realize, like, everyone else there is way smarter than you. And so there's like this kind of, like, insecurity that comes when you get there. It's like, I need to do more. I need to do this. And I actually don't think that was a super bad thing for us because it forced us to, like, lock ourselves in our dorm room and be like, well, what if we could do this? Or, what if we could try that?
- [06:31]
Lauren Everts
That is one thing I didn't have to face at the University of Arizona. I did not feel like the dumbest person there.
- [06:37]
Michael Bostick
Oh, really?
- [06:38]
Lauren Everts
No. I felt like I Was top of the heap. But then again, I might feel that way anywhere. You never know.
- [06:44]
Sophia Kiani
I think you would. You would. Definitely. You would. You guys would have. Yeah, you guys would be great.
- [06:48]
Lauren Everts
Do you feel back in turn. In turn on that thread, growing up with a last name like you have, do you feel a certain kind of pressure to perform and maybe a kind of way that maybe the three of us don't feel right? Like, I imagine in. In, listen, nobody's gonna. And you've dealt with this. It's like the tiniest violin when people are crying about their privilege. But you're not. But I imagine that's a pretty intense pressure to live up to a last name like Gates, I think.
- [07:17]
Sophia Kiani
Yeah. I mean, I think that Sophia feels it as well, like, in a completely different lane. But I think, like, for me, like, yes, I feel that pressure 100%. But, like, what a privilege to feel that, right? Like, I think I'd be so bored if I didn't feel like, oh, I need to do something, or I need to have, like, a purpose. And I've been so lucky that I've been given by my parents. Like, I don't. I can focus on what I care about and what I actually want to do and what I want to create. And so I've been put in, like, this, frankly, like, really privileged, awesome position. But, yeah, there is pressure to that, and I kind of honestly like that. And I think that's a really good thing because otherwise I could just rot on my couch if my parents hadn't given me that.
- [07:53]
Michael Bostick
With both of you, though, there is parallels that your parents were immigrants and they wanted you to. To. To rise to a certain occasion.
- [08:00]
Sophia Kiani
Did you.
- [08:00]
Michael Bostick
Both of your parents want you to go to, like, the best of the best schools? Was. Was that. Did you talk about that in your household, or was that not even a thing?
- [08:10]
Phoebe Gates
Honestly, for me, not really. I mean, my dad applied when he was, like, 18 to come to the United States. There's like a TOEFL and all these exams, and then he did community college here. He, like, transferred to a university he was excited about. So I think education was always the number one thing in my household that my parents were like, if you want to be successful in life, you need to prioritize your education. Like, that's what's going to open doors for you. So I think it was always something that was important to me. I don't think my parents were like, you need to go to this school or anything like that. I think that was something that I just personally it was always my dream to go to Stanford. I knew that that was the school that was my dream school. I think the only thing, the question for me was, like, how am I going to pay for this? And I think that was part of the reason why I started working really young in high school, to, like, be able to pay for my own tuition and to, like, take on different jobs. But I think that, like, ultimately, what was really important for me and Phoebe is that at the end of the day, like, what I was really excited about when it came to, like, why I think we became such good friends, was that Phoebe wanted to create something that was, like, adding value to the world. And I thought that that was what I was most excited about, because that's what I wanted to do. And so I think that it was, like, we just both had the same shared vision of the reason why we're at this school is because we want to take the skills and the classes and the things that we're learning and turn it into something bigger and, like, something that people will be excited about. And so we, like, really just bonded over this shared love for fashion. Also talking about how, like, unsustainable the fashion industry is, like, a love for secondhand fashion. And, like, that's why we decided to start our company.
- [09:47]
Sophia Kiani
I remember a little differently. I remember we were arguing about clothes all the damn time as roommates. She'll say I stole her crap. I'll say she stole mine. And then we were, like, obsessed with online shopping, but felt pretty guilty about it because we were, you know, we wanted to buy stuff to look good for spring. And then we realized, like, oh, there isn't, like, a tool that exists that could just instantly, like, be our shopping assistant. And I think it took us a bit to realize we could actually, like, start a company or, you know, that this could actually be a career for us. Actually, we got rejected from the first entrepreneurship class we applied to. Like, there's this one that's really prestigious at Stanford called, like, the Lean Launchpad. Like, flat out rejected. Like, not even bumped around to, like, we were flat out rejected, and we were feeling really bad for ourselves. And so we joined the Admit all entrepreneurship class. And that's when we were first. We're like, oh, we could actually have this be a real business.
- [10:33]
Michael Bostick
How did you guys even have the. This kernel of an idea to begin with? Was it, like, how did it sort of, like, the momentum? How did it transpire?
- [10:41]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah, I mean, it really started with. We had talked about this on our podcast, but our first idea was actually building a smart tampon. So, like, a Bluetooth tampon that would give you insights around your hormones and stuff every month.
- [10:54]
Sophia Kiani
First we were like, wouldn't it be genius if you didn't have to go get a blood test and you could just use your tampon and get all these insights about yourself? And then when we got to the part of how would the technology work, we couldn't even get there because people pointed out to us, rightfully so, that there was, like, no business model there. And frankly, we just weren't the right people to build it. And so then we were like, okay, let's do something else. And then we probably hit the drawing board, like, I don't know, 18 times with really, really bad ideas until we, like, were like, oh, well, what if we can make a shopping assistant? Okay, that sounds pretty cool.
- [11:23]
Michael Bostick
Do you call Bill and say, hey, Bill.
- [11:26]
Sophia Kiani
I actually did. I actually did.
- [11:28]
Michael Bostick
What does Bill say?
- [11:29]
Sophia Kiani
He was like, okay, I don't think I'm your target consumer. And I was like, well, no shit, dad. You're not my target consumer. You don't have a vagina. So then he was like, okay, I can connect you with, like, a doctor who I know. And I was like, okay. So I talked to this doctor, and she was actually doing really, really cool stuff about, like, you know, could you use pads to detect if someone had, like, an STI or an STD in, like, the developing world and so they wouldn't have to go in and get, like, labs done? So that was really interesting. But, you know, talking to people about, like, the tampon industry itself was really interesting. But then, very quickly, we realized that there just was, like, no legs to this idea. We took apart one tampon, and we were like, this is. This is too much.
- [12:07]
Lauren Everts
I was, like, picturing you guys in, like, lab coats in some special, like, room.
- [12:11]
Sophia Kiani
We did hit up the lab coat.
- [12:12]
Phoebe Gates
No, there was a. There's a team at Stanford that's actually working on building something, but they're in the medical school, so they're actually legitimate. We. I'm pretty sure we did a zoom with them, actually, because we were interested, and we were like, they can build this. We. You guys cannot.
- [12:25]
Sophia Kiani
You got it.
- [12:25]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah.
- [12:25]
Michael Bostick
You know, when you guys started saying the word tampon, you kind of said this. You alluded to this. Was there, like, a weird, taboo kind of energy around getting into the tampon industry or not at all?
- [12:37]
Sophia Kiani
I think no, because, like, for me, my, like, background is, you know, the first operator wrote was about Roe v. Wade being overturned and about, you know, women in Rwanda who were forced to have children at a super young age and then ostracized from their families. So reproductive freedom and health is something that I've always spoken about. And saying the word tampon to me, like, means nothing. So I think particularly being at Stanford as well, like, people are very open to that. There's also like a great group of girls that's actually making a tampon for performance athletes where, you know, it doesn't fucking leak. That's an awesome idea. They should 100% do that. A Bluetooth tampon I'm confused about. It was a bad idea.
- [13:11]
Michael Bostick
You know what, though? I find that the most successful entrepreneurs have to throw it on the wall and say, see what sticks and pivot and adjust based on that. And I believe that if you guys didn't start with that idea, you wouldn't be to this idea. So it's like you have to go through this process. I, I say it's like, for me, it's like I have to wrap my head around it before I get to the other side. And you have to go through all these different iterations to get there. Does that make sense? Like, I feel like you wouldn't be doing what you're doing without the Bluetooth tampon.
- [13:44]
Lauren Everts
Sam, write down Bluetooth condom for me. I'll circle back to that. I'll circle back to that.
- [13:48]
Michael Bostick
I think you're wearing a condom.
- [13:49]
Lauren Everts
That's true. There's no condom. I'm not the target audience either, but. But you know, maybe if it, if it spoke back to me and I could look at my phone.
- [13:58]
Michael Bostick
Enough about your penis. Can I get back to you?
- [14:00]
Lauren Everts
Give me my performance metrics after. You know, who knows?
- [14:02]
Michael Bostick
But I feel like you have to, like, to be able to iterate to get to where you guys are now. You needed to go through that.
- [14:08]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, I feel like we're still going through it. I think that's just how it is when you're a startup. The whole goal is to continue to ship random things and try things until you feel like something is working. And even when we had the original idea for fia, I mean, we built a desktop browser extension that no one used because no one shops on their computer. And we learned so much from that. I mean, we spent months working on that and then realized we needed to pivot and focus on our mobile app and a mobile browser extension. So. And even now, like, we're still iterating, we're still changing the product a lot. And so I think that was just a good lesson of, obviously the first idea you have isn't going to be the one that you work on. And even now, like, the idea that we have right now, I'm sure is going to continue to change and develop over the next few months.
- [14:51]
Michael Bostick
I mean, look at. I was just listening to a podcast on Thomas Edison. How many times it took him to get to the light bulb? It took him like a thousand times, right? Michael, you're the history nerd.
- [15:03]
Lauren Everts
I don't. I think, I think it was 936.
- [15:07]
Michael Bostick
No, it took him. It took him like a thousand and times to get to the light. It's not like. I guess what I'm trying to tell the audience is it's. If you're. If you have an idea, it's not always the first idea. And sometimes the first idea is iterated on a hundred times before you get to the right idea.
- [15:22]
Sophia Kiani
I would tell anyone who is starting something. The smartest thing that we did, which actually was complete mistake, was we had. At the time, we didn't have an office and we were living together. So we had a bunch of our girlfriends, you know, like, literally in our dorm room, and they started roasting the desktop extension, as one does, like, well, this is cute, but, like, I don't shop on my having laptop. And really quickly then we started to sit with them and be like, okay, well, what would you want? What do you hate about shopping? What would be useful? And that's how the product ended up. We ended up scrapping months of work and completely restarting and doing mobile. And so now we do every other week. Thank God. Women in New York like myself love a little wine and pizza. We just have girls come to our office and we say, hey, rip this app apart. And they do. And then we learn, okay, this is what we need to fix. These are bugs. This is what sucks. Okay? This is what we need to develop. And I think anyone who's, like, doing anything, whether it's a business or like, their resume, like, you should have just all your friends come in and give feedback, but not your closest friends. That's the mistake we made at the beginning is we were just sending stuff to, like, our moms and sisters who'd be like, great job, girls. Like, good job.
- [16:22]
Lauren Everts
They just want to blindly support.
- [16:23]
Phoebe Gates
Exactly.
- [16:24]
Lauren Everts
Nice. But yeah, not useful.
- [16:25]
Michael Bostick
You're not. You're. Even though you're like the closest person.
- [16:29]
Lauren Everts
In my life, I will rip that shit.
- [16:31]
Michael Bostick
To get a thumbs up from Michael Bostick is like, what's the biggest rip.
- [16:36]
Sophia Kiani
You'Ve done of something where, I mean, I just.
- [16:39]
Lauren Everts
Similar to some of your friends, I want to be. I view it as being, like, more loving and caring to actually, like, give the truth so that somebody can reach their fullest potential. And listen, I may be wrong a lot of the time, but I wouldn't want to sugarcoat and then have somebody do something and have it not be as good as it could be because I was scared. You don't sugarcoat to, you know, I think that's right.
- [16:58]
Sophia Kiani
This is actually something we struggle with in our relationship. Because I'm way more emotional than Sophia. You would agree.
- [17:03]
Phoebe Gates
No, I would agree with that.
- [17:04]
Sophia Kiani
And so she's like, I'm giving you this feedback. Feedback as a compliment to you. And it's a compliment to our relationship, how close we are that I can give this feedback. I'm like, I hear that, but it doesn't feel that.
- [17:14]
Michael Bostick
Sophia, I have a tip for you. One of my oldest friends told me, you have to say, are you at request for coaching? Because some people just want to vent. They want to cry, they want to be emotional. And when you ask that, you immediately let the guard down. So when he's having a tantrum, I say, are you at request for coaching? And there's been times where he says no.
- [17:35]
Lauren Everts
I say no every time. And you still go, oh, wow. I said, I'm not. I said, absolutely not. She just still does anyway.
- [17:42]
Sophia Kiani
We do, like monthly, like, reflection checkpoints.
- [17:45]
Lauren Everts
I love that it's important if you're going to be in an intimate relationship, not just like the way we are, but as business partners, which is very intimate. And you guys, I'm sure, know and are figuring out even more the more you do things, like you have to be able to have that short form, honest, very blunt feedback because.
- [18:02]
Sophia Kiani
Yep.
- [18:02]
Lauren Everts
If not, like, what are we all doing?
- [18:05]
Michael Bostick
If you guys were just to describe what you're doing in a really digestible way to our audience, how would you describe it?
- [18:12]
Phoebe Gates
It's basically like Google flights, but fashion. So basically, as you shop, we have this mobile browser extension that, like, say you're looking at a $200 stod bag. It will basically tell you that exact same bag is a hundred dollars on Poshmark. So it finds like, all the best prices from across the Internet for that item that you're looking at instantly. So you can basically save time and money, but you basically, you download it as an app and then it. You can add it to your browser. And then so while you're shopping, you don't need to do anything. Like you just press on the little shopping assistant and then it'll do the price check for you to see if the price is too high and if there's cheaper options available.
- [18:49]
Michael Bostick
That's so smart. That's so funny. There's this vest that I want and I've searched it all over the Internet and I can't find it. But I feel like if I used your app, the app would find maybe like a used version on, on some site, right?
- [19:03]
Phoebe Gates
Try it.
- [19:03]
Michael Bostick
I'm going to write it down. That's basically how I've been looking for this specific vest. I can't find it anywhere. I'm going to see if your app can find it.
- [19:10]
Lauren Everts
You're in the vest market.
- [19:12]
Michael Bostick
No, I'm not. Well, not right now.
- [19:15]
Lauren Everts
I want to see this.
- [19:15]
Michael Bostick
I am planning for my comeback post pregnancy and I am telling you it's over. For all you bitches out there. I am coming back with the tightest, most lifted ass.
- [19:26]
Lauren Everts
I don't know.
- [19:26]
Michael Bostick
In a vest.
- [19:27]
Lauren Everts
I don't know about a vest though.
- [19:28]
Michael Bostick
This is a cute vest.
- [19:30]
Lauren Everts
This is an opportunity for me.
- [19:31]
Phoebe Gates
I really want to see this.
- [19:32]
Michael Bostick
It's a beautiful vest. It's.
- [19:34]
Phoebe Gates
We're gonna find it.
- [19:37]
Sophia Kiani
She's getting the fucking vest. I'm getting the worst.
- [19:40]
Lauren Everts
We should all provide feedback on maybe it's a good vest. I don't know. Vests are hard to pull off.
- [19:44]
Michael Bostick
How can we be conscious consumers when we're shopping?
- [19:48]
Sophia Kiani
I think it's really about buying less and buying intentionally. So that's one thing that we actually messed up with originally was our tool would only show secondhand. And we realized very quickly that's not always what the consumer wants. And if you are going to buy an item firsthand, you're buying an item that you know is worth the price, it's going to hold its value. And so we can actually show you also whether an item holds its value or not. So you're always buying at the best price possible. Whether there's, you know, a discounted version on sale somewhere else, or there's a secondhand version that we know is an 80% carbon reduction, or you're making an investment to buy something firsthand that you know is going to hold your value. But oftentimes, like if you're shopping fast fashion and we can show you, hey, this thing's going to lose half its value in a day. And hey, here's a cheaper one. The second hand market. Even if you don't convert there and you're not buying it secondhand Maybe you'll consider buying something that's a little bit higher or a little bit nicer of an item in terms of its material. And so you're actually buying less at the end of the day, you know.
- [20:43]
Michael Bostick
A lot of the secondhand stuff for guys is going to be Michael's old boots. Michael just got into putting his stuff on the refined. This is true.
- [20:54]
Lauren Everts
Thought I'm on the real real.
- [20:55]
Michael Bostick
You're. No, you were on the real real. You're also on the refined. We have you on both, and I. He's been selling his clothes like hotcakes.
- [21:02]
Lauren Everts
No, be honest. You've made it. You got rid of all my stuff, and now it's out there just being pawned off to everyone who has access to it. All my favorite stuff is just gone.
- [21:10]
Michael Bostick
No, I. I don't feel bad for. I don't feel bad.
- [21:12]
Lauren Everts
And Miles, your brother. I see you. I. Sometimes I show up and he's in my clothes that I didn't even know I lost.
- [21:16]
Michael Bostick
Good, though. He's being conscious, right?
- [21:18]
Phoebe Gates
Exactly. I think it's sustainable. He's using that instead of buying something.
- [21:22]
Lauren Everts
I'm doing my part for the planet.
- [21:23]
Michael Bostick
This is such a good question for you guys. I sometimes deal with this. Maybe I don't know if it's in the same way or. Or different, but how do you guys deal with being young females who are constantly underestimated, especially in tech? Because I'm sure you guys walk in and there's maybe some men in suits that you have to convince. Well, how do you guys deal with that?
- [21:44]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, I think it's more about if you're trying to convince someone, like, you're probably opening the wrong door. Like, there are other people to talk to. And ultimately you should talk to people who understand your value and who understand, like, you're worthy of respect. And I think that's been something that's been really awesome with even navigating investors and all of that. Like, the incredible women that we've brought into the fold, like Sarah Blakely and Kris Jenner, like, they're incredible, and they believe in our value as young women. And so I think it's really important to surround yourself with people like that who actually uplift you, bring you up and make you understand that what you're saying is actually of value and that what you're building is. Is something exciting. Like, you need to talk to the people who get it. We weren't going to spend all of our time trying to convince the old white men who didn't shop and who didn't get it to get it when we could talk to the girls who got it, which, I mean, I'm sure you're super fashionable and you would have got it. Oh, my God, I love that. You would have got it. You would have got it. You would have got it. But some people did not.
- [22:51]
Lauren Everts
Hold on, I'm gonna go under the fucking table.
- [22:54]
Sophia Kiani
I'm literally crying right now.
- [22:56]
Lauren Everts
I get what you're saying.
- [22:57]
Michael Bostick
Yeah, he is, he's an old white man.
- [22:59]
Lauren Everts
I'm on the cusp of moving towards the old white males group, but we're.
- [23:05]
Sophia Kiani
Talking like, over, like 65, like those guys. We're not going to explain how the browser extension, like, works, etc.
- [23:10]
Michael Bostick
Like, yeah, Michael gets it.
- [23:13]
Sophia Kiani
One thing that does, really, is that I think a lot of people think that. And I think this is something we struggled with too. Like when we were first starting out and we had to, like, let people go or tell someone, hey, you're underperforming. Like, there's always this trope that a woman's a bitch if she does that or she lays down the law. And I used to say sorry for everything, like, even if I was two minutes later. So I'm so sorry. Even when you don't mean you're sorry. And I think learning that you just have to recognize that this is like your professional self versus your personal self, I think was really, really important.
- [23:40]
Michael Bostick
Michael and I talk about this a lot. It's, it's also hard to let go someone when you're so young. I, I, I've had this problem, like, with employees like it, there's a weird dynamic. Like, for instance, if you were like a 60 year old in a huge office in Park Avenue, it's a lot easier to like, let someone go as opposed to being fresh out running a company. Letting someone go, it's a different dynamic. Do you know what I mean?
- [24:10]
Sophia Kiani
100%. And when we first raised money, I think a trope we had, and there, I'm saying there are some people, like on our team who are older, who are experts, and we need them always hire for what you don't know. Because we have so many weaknesses that we hire for. But we had this trope when we first raised capital that we were like, we only need to hire people who are more senior than us, who have, you know, eight plus years of experience in the field that they're in. And we learned very quickly that a lot of those people were not a fit. And it became a relationship where you Know, like we weren't respected versus we actually needed more like young talent at that time who's like hungry and is just like, well actually I have no idea how to do that but I'm gonna stay in the office till 4am and figure it out.
- [24:48]
Michael Bostick
Right?
- [24:48]
Sophia Kiani
And so that was like a big, big, like frankly mistake that we made that we had to learn from very quickly.
- [24:54]
Lauren Everts
I would also say as the old white man at the table, that there are Kris Kringle, that there are. And I would just say this stupid assholes of every gender, age right there. There's just sometimes just people that like man, woman, there's just some stupid assholes out there.
- [25:14]
Phoebe Gates
100.
- [25:15]
Sophia Kiani
But the problem is we only skewed where we were like had blinders on where we're like, we can't hire anyone our own age. Like we can't hire anyone younger than us. We only need to hire people who have eight plus years of experience. And then we had to just open it up and realize, oh wait, there's actually really great people everywhere at every age. And we need to like, why are we doing that? We made that mistake.
- [25:33]
Lauren Everts
Yeah, in enthusiasm and like a figure it out can do attitude. Like sometimes these older people, I gotta be careful, I'm really young. So, you know, sometimes people come and they're used to having these big teams and groups and assistants and people that report to them and all this. And then you get to an environment that's a new company, new startup. It's like, where's all my people? It's like, no, we need you to be scrappy, buddy. We need you to like get it together. And I think that in relation to what you're talking about with Dear Media specifically, I've had much greater luck personally with younger people who are enthusiastic about the business, who get the vision, who are passionate about it, who are excited to stay after and get with the community and the group. And you know, I would take that kind of attitude over experience any day because you can always get to the experience stuff later as the business matures.
- [26:20]
Phoebe Gates
I was going to say I think really just to get to the essence of your question, which is just what it's like being a young woman in tech. My comment was more towards like the people that we encountered who were asking really inappropriate questions like what's going to happen to your company when you have kids? Or asking things of that nature which were really inappropriate and I think were only asked of us because we were young women or asking, is this really your main commitment? Are you really going to be working on this company. Like, do you want to be influencers? Is that what this is about? And, and I think that that's, that is really what I was getting at. And there was definitely like a specific archetype of that type of person. But you're right. I mean, I think that type of bias can come from women, it can come from men. But it's just important to know, like, there are totally people who might have a preconceived notion of you because of the way you look, because of the way that you present online. What's important is to find the people who don't believe that, who don't have those preconceived notions, and then to know that they're the people that you want on your team. And so I think it's not worth a second of our time, it's not worth a second of anyone's time trying to convince someone to believe that they're worthy when that comes from within and it comes from people who actually are also worthy of your respect.
- [27:37]
Lauren Everts
Quick break to talk about one of our favorite partners, one of our favorite supplements, and that is Armor Colostrum. Lauren and I love efficiency. What if I were to tell you that there was something that you could take simply by scooping it out of a little jug and dumping a little bit of it into a simple drink or directly into your mouth that would help you strengthen your immune system, fortify your gut health, ignite your metabolism, vitalize hair growth, enhance skin radiance, fuel performance and recovery, and so much more. Well, there is that product and it is called Armor Colostrum. Lauren and I have been taking this for years now, ever since we had the founder of Armor on this podcast and learned all about the incredible benefits of Armor Colostrum. What many don't know is Colostrum is nature's first whole food with over 400 bioactive nutrients that work at the cellular level to reactivate your body's innate capacity to regenerate and thrive. 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- [32:38]
Michael Bostick
I think we need to give some hot tips of when people are in an interview. I don't think it's appropriate to ask personal questions about is that appropriate or am I, like, dated to ask what are you gonna do when you have kids? That feels like a really intense question to be asking in a job interview.
- [32:58]
Lauren Everts
You're looking at me for this.
- [32:59]
Michael Bostick
Yeah.
- [32:59]
Lauren Everts
Oh, no, they're talking. She's talking about when you were pitching, right?
- [33:01]
Phoebe Gates
No, you're.
- [33:02]
Michael Bostick
Oh, the investors.
- [33:03]
Phoebe Gates
Investors, yeah.
- [33:04]
Michael Bostick
I thought you were saying the people that you were hiring were you. I was like, wow, that's still an intense question, though, as an investor. You don't think so?
- [33:11]
Lauren Everts
No, it's inappropriate. For sure. For sure. Let me just blankly say that. But we in our lane face this kind of stuff too. Like, I remember with when, whenever we like, oh, you guys are a couple. What happens if you do this?
- [33:22]
Michael Bostick
Oh, yeah, they've asked us what happens if you get divorced? You know, I think I was like, don't worry, I'll handle it.
- [33:28]
Lauren Everts
But one thing that I agree with you on completely is it is a complete waste of time to try to convince those kind of people with those thought patterns. Like, they just. I. I don't speak ill of them. I don't think that they're the wrong. Like, that they aren't bad ideas. I just think they're not the right fit and they're in there and they're not your people.
- [33:46]
Phoebe Gates
Right, exactly.
- [33:47]
Lauren Everts
Go to the people that are your people that get it, that are excited about. They're going to be true partners that believe in you as an individual and as operators and as partners. You know, like, whenever I. We're met with those kind of conversations, no matter what kind of resume or background or achievements the person has, like, I write them off and say, let's go to the next one.
- [34:03]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah.
- [34:04]
Lauren Everts
You know what I mean?
- [34:05]
Michael Bostick
That's crazy that they are saying that to you as investors. I. I think, like, asking about kids. You're like, let me get through today.
- [34:12]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, we're like 23, like 22.
- [34:16]
Michael Bostick
Just like, let me get through this episode. That's like, a lot. How did you pitch Sarah and Kris Jenner? How did you approach them? How did you pitch them? Give the audience some tips on how to pitch as you've pitched to two of the strongest female founders out there.
- [34:34]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah, I mean, I think for us, it was really about both. Sarah and Chris are very involved in fashion, and they both deeply understood and had a love for secondhand and vintage shopping. So, for example, Kris Jenner has Kardashian Closet, so she's actually been in the vintage space for years. And so I think for us it was really speaking to her. As for like thinking about the concept of, okay, imagine someone is shopping on a website and then that item is available on Kardashian closet for a fraction of the price price, it's a no brainer that someone would want to purchase the secondhand item that is almost the exact same condition but a lower price. And then I think for us it was also about explaining that we had thought through like the unit economics of the business and that it was an affiliate model, that there was other companies that had operated in a similar fashion and that they were able to become profitable, had multi billion dollar acquisitions. And so we really just walked them through the business plan. We walked them through it as though they were a consumer and they both were like, this is a product that makes sense and this is something that we would use. And we love secondhand fashion. We understand, I mean it's projected to grow to want to say like over 40 billion by 2028, like the online secondhand fashion industry. And so they believed in our vision and also of this longer term vision of really what we wanted to build. What we want to build is this AI shopping assistant where it can accompany you on your journey. And the core question we're trying to answer is should I buy this? Which is something that everyone thinks. And so I think that us explaining to them like this is where we're starting and this is where we see the business growing. Like we want this to be an AI shopping assistant. Anytime someone is thinking about making a purchase, it should inform them on whatever it is they care about, starting first with price, which is the thing that most consumers care about the most. Starting with price and then continuing to expand to whatever else it is that consumers are, are like care about. Like for example, if my I asked my shopping assistant something and I asked like, should I buy it? If it's according to my preferences, it should tell me no at a certain point. And so I think that that's where we want the technology to go. Like that's where we want this company to continue to grow. And so I think for us it was just really about giving them like the honest picture of where we wanted to see things going and where we were starting. And they both got it to your point.
- [36:51]
Sophia Kiani
The other thing is like to back up like they were not our first pitches, right? Like practice, practice, practice, our first pitch. Like if I think about it for too long I could cry it. Luckily it was like a friend of a friend who worked at a firm and he was willing to take a call with us, like kindly. We pitched for 35 minutes. We did not let this guy talk. We both answered the same questions. We talked over each other. It was horrible. And then after that, luckily we had someone else in the room. We had recorded it for our mentor and they said, this is trash. And we quickly learned to then find, you know, people who'd raised capital before and we'd say, hey, could we please get on a 30 minute call with you and we will do our pitch for you. And then just at the end, can you just give us 10 minutes of raw, honest feedback of what you thought about our pitch, what was good, what was bad. And so we did that probably like 30 times with like family, friends, anyone we could get connected to who'd raised before completely outside of our space. And we wouldn't even ask them for, for feedback on the product, but feedback on, okay, how was our pace? Did we talk too fast? Did we talk over each other? Okay, what are questions we should watch out for? And so by the time we're going to like, these people that we knew were like our, like, you know, we really want these people to invest. We already had like practice and taken all of like the missteps. The deck had completely transformed itself. And through that process we'd like learned, okay, this is what the product is going to look like. And here's where, okay, Sophia's best at answering this question. I'm best at answering this question. Here's how we actively explain like the vision and the business model.
- [38:15]
Michael Bostick
Did you pitch to your dad and what did he tell you to do?
- [38:19]
Sophia Kiani
I, so I actually, I had talked to my dad early on, but it was really important for me not to raise for my family because I wanted to go out kind of like had Sophia had said, like proving myself totally makes sense. And so I really wanted to go out and have like a blue chip investor that would put money behind via. That was respected in the tech space. So that was really, really important for us. Now on Those practice pitches, 100% I pitched my mom and dad, but again they're my parents, so they know.
- [38:44]
Michael Bostick
But don't they like give you like all this, like it only should be 10 minutes or do they have this feedback or.
- [38:49]
Sophia Kiani
Too nice to me to be honest. But I do remember after like some first like tough pitches where like we got really honest feedback, people were like, we're not interested. Like, I called my mom like crying one time and she was like, girl, this is business. You better. Like, I'm here to support you. I love you, but like, if you want to do business, like, you got to take some no's and you should not be crying after a no. You should be going to your next call. Like, you should have these back to back. And I was like, whoa. I'd never like really seen that side of my mom because you have to imagine like she grew up in Dallas, she went to Duke, she was one of two women in her entire four years who was doing computer science at that time. She goes to Microsoft and is the boss of tons and tons of people. And so I hadn't really seen like this business side of her. I'd heard her voice on, you know, meetings and calls, but she's always been my mother. And so I hadn't like seen that side of her. And to get that feedback, I was like, you know what, you're right. Like, like, if I don't want to get rejected, then why am I pitching something that's going to be hard to get? Like, you know, that's going to be tough. A business, you're supposed to get a bunch of no's. That's the reality. And so I think learning to take that and then be like, okay, what about that pitch? Do we need to adapt?
- [39:47]
Michael Bostick
I think that's really good advice that your mom said. I just want to know, when you did your pitch to Sarah and Chris, how refined was it? So you mentioned the first pitch was 35 minutes. You said you guys were talking over each other. What does the pitch look like? Like when it's nice and refined and edited down.
- [40:04]
Phoebe Gates
Oh my God. Completely different.
- [40:05]
Michael Bostick
I mean, are we talking 10 minutes? Are we talking 15?
- [40:08]
Sophia Kiani
Like 5?
- [40:09]
Phoebe Gates
Like 5. We were like a well oiled machine. We had like a 10 page deck. We were super succinct. I had one slide, Phoebe had another slide. We had like a Google Doc in the back of questions that they might ask us, like talking points that we wanted to hit. By the end of it we were like deck and pitching GPT basically. But I think that that's what we realized was that. But ultimately, I mean, raising capital is a really big deal and you need to be super prepared and you need to want to do it. And so I think we, we in the beginning were kind of like, oh, like what are we doing?
- [40:43]
Sophia Kiani
Oh, we don't know if we're raising.
- [40:44]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah. And you should not talk to investors unless you're raising.
- [40:47]
Sophia Kiani
It's a waste of everybody's time.
- [40:49]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah. And so once we were like, okay, we want to raise this money. We want. We know we want this much. Then we could be really, really diligent in saying, like, we want to raise, raise this much money. It's all going to go towards these expenses. And, like, here's how it's going to generate ROI for the business. Like, we had a super. I feel like I've wiped it out of my memory now because it was such an intense period of time, but we spent weeks preparing. And then when we were like, okay, today's the day we're starting the fundraise, then we were really intentional about, like, banging out all the pitches, taking the no's. No sweat, continuing on until we were like, this is the group of people that we want to rock with this.
- [41:24]
Michael Bostick
You have been told how many no's.
- [41:27]
Lauren Everts
I mean, like, the majority of my life is no's.
- [41:29]
Michael Bostick
I mean, I think, like I said no to you.
- [41:31]
Lauren Everts
Any entrepreneur, 10 years.
- [41:33]
Michael Bostick
I think, like, you had to refine your deck for me.
- [41:36]
Lauren Everts
You know, there's two. There's like two common themes of doing this show for ten years. If I. If I'm speaking to this audience and aspiring business creators or entrepreneurs. Like, one, first, you have to, like, launch fast and get it out there, and you have to get the feedback and be willing to take it either from friends or colleagues or even customers. And you have to be willing to adjust. Like, you're never launching a perfect thing, as you guys know. It's just impossible. And the other thing is you just have to get very comfortable with no's and failures. I mean, like, if I ever was gonna write a book, it would primarily be all of the no's and failures and hurdles to get to where we've gotten to. I mean, like, that's just the. I think that the one problem that I have with school.
- [42:15]
Sophia Kiani
Yeah.
- [42:16]
Lauren Everts
Is it's this past the one problem. Well, I have a lot of problems, but, like, the mind, the big problem I think school is it's great to be educated and to get an incredible education. And if you can do it in a prestigious place where you can make connections, even better. If you can get it paid for by your parents, even, Even better. But a lot of these platform or places, they teach you this, like, kind of it's all about achieving all the time. Like, when you fail, it's a failure. Like, most of creating a business and most of doing anything in life is constant failure. And then you work through that to get to that gem of Success. And I think, like, it doesn't. School sometimes doesn't do a good enough job of hardening people to that reality. So when I see young people, like, I got no and I cried and I quit. I'm like, well, like, the first. Like, you're gonna get a hundred other no's, right? Like, that's just. That's par for the course. That's normal. You want the nose. That's how you refine.
- [43:02]
Sophia Kiani
Do you guys feel like you always both know when you're like, okay, we're doing something wrong? We need to, like, pivot the business? Or has there ever been, like, moments where you guys are like, you disagree on that? Like, what does that look like? I'm super curious.
- [43:13]
Michael Bostick
I think that we've gotten so many no's and we've had to pivot the business so many times. It's a part of it. It's a part of. It's a part of refining and editing.
- [43:20]
Lauren Everts
You know, what it is, is I think if you have the perspective of most of the time, it's going to not be right, and it's just a constant improvement, then you don't really look at it as, like, oh, it's a. It's a failure. It needs to be. It's just more of, like, that's. It's just, like, part of it. Like, if you want to create a beautiful piece of art, like, you start. And it's not. Like, it's not just perfect at first. Like, it just. It takes constant iterations.
- [43:38]
Michael Bostick
Also, with relationships, and you guys know this with friendships, too, it's con. You're constantly editing.
- [43:42]
Lauren Everts
Like, imagine if you got into an intimate relationship with, you know, a partner, and you had one fight, and you're like, ah, this thing's a disaster. Let's throw it away.
- [43:49]
Sophia Kiani
That's just like, we wouldn't be co founders. We fight every day. We have. We just have a system to it now.
- [43:54]
Lauren Everts
We fight every single day.
- [43:56]
Michael Bostick
We do, yeah. Every day. What do we fight about today?
- [43:59]
Lauren Everts
I don't know. You're yelling about me about, like, the chili pad guts or the eight sleep head got, like, you know, like a dog peed on or something.
- [44:06]
Sophia Kiani
Sophia, what'd we fight about today?
- [44:08]
Phoebe Gates
But I was running late.
- [44:10]
Lauren Everts
I think this. I think the veneer of perfection is a real hindrance to people in. In life in general. Take it in business and personal relationships and raising children like you. You know, a lot of parents, especially if they want to paint this perfect picture of figuring, like, there's so many things that you learn as a new parent. Like, okay, I did that wrong. Or you feel bad about this. Like, it's just. It's a constant iteration.
- [44:30]
Michael Bostick
I think that you guys should write a book about your journey of your company, like, in the moment, and call it the Burnouts, and write a book on everything you guys are learning. Because I think that people need to hear more from really young female founders who are going through this process. I think you guys would be the perfect people to write this book. I feel like we need a book.
- [44:52]
Sophia Kiani
We'll do it with Dear Media. Let's do it.
- [44:53]
Michael Bostick
Yeah, do a book. Do a book that, like, shows the process. Because I think, like, of course you guys are going to be successful. You are successful. I see huge things for you guys. But I think people would love to see the process.
- [45:08]
Lauren Everts
You know, we did do a book publishing deal, and we made it a bestseller. Maybe we should get into the publishing world, Sam. Maybe that's where all these authors come now to promote their books. Anyways.
- [45:17]
Michael Bostick
Your media did that.
- [45:18]
Lauren Everts
Yeah.
- [45:18]
Michael Bostick
Oh, okay.
- [45:19]
Lauren Everts
But I'm thinking now maybe I'm like.
- [45:20]
Phoebe Gates
Margot, no, I should have.
- [45:21]
Lauren Everts
Maybe we should have a publishing deal.
- [45:23]
Sophia Kiani
You guys would do a posting article. We'll do it.
- [45:26]
Michael Bostick
I. I really could, like, see a book in your future. Okay, so how is Gen Z responding to what you guys are doing? Are they loving watching this through the podcast? Like, are you guys talking about it on the podcast? Or how are they responding to everything you're doing?
- [45:38]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, I think it's been really exciting that, like, I want to say, two days after we launched, we hit, like, number 21 on the top shopping charts, and we pretty much, like, consistently stayed in the top 100 since. Since then. And honestly, we had no idea whether or not when we launched, anyone would download it. Like, we were genuinely so scared, we thought, okay, maybe we'll get a couple hundred people to download it off of Instagram. And so I think seeing that thousands of girls are now downloading it, they're reaching out to us, and they're also giving us advice. Like, candidly, they're telling us, where's this buggy?
- [46:15]
Sophia Kiani
We like this.
- [46:15]
Phoebe Gates
I don't like this. Like, I think that for us, it's like, this is the very beginning and we are constantly learning. And for us, it's really just been about understanding that we want to grow with our audience. That's why we started the podcast the exact same time that we launched the company. Because, exactly like what you were saying, we wanted people to be with us from the Very beginning. And so the hope is that in a year, in two years, the company is completely different. Like, the product has totally evolved. It's become so much better. And we're so thankful to the girls who reach out to us, who tell us what's horrible. Like, that's really what has been super helpful, is we now have thousands of data points to be able to better understand people's behavior, seeing where they're purchasing, where they're falling off. So it's been awesome. And we just want to continue to learn and to realize where we can improve and deliver the best experience possible for girls who want to shop smarter.
- [47:06]
Sophia Kiani
It's also funny, this industry is kind of antiquated. Shopping really hasn't changed since we moved online. And we got, like, like, net a porte, which is amazing. And we got, like, Amazon. But, like, there's nothing that tells you if something's a good deal or not. There's no tool that actually delivers to you personalized shopping recommendations or insights or deals unless you're going to go out and hire a personal shopper. So the fact that this audience, like, there isn't that much that's actually built for this girl. Like, we look at girls as society who love to shop. We kind of look down on it as, like, kind of a pesky behavior. Instead of being like, there are some girls who are actually some really damn good shoppers. They're always getting the best deal. They're shopping really smart. Oh, what if we could just make a tool that makes that easier so you don't have to spend, like, two hours searching for your spring fling dress because you have so much other to do. Like, so that for us, is kind of exciting because I think that even when we're like, okay, that feature wasn't that great. Okay, that's buggy. We got to improve that. Okay. We need to add, you know, image search. We need to add price drops. Like, this audience is hungry to have these new things because they're already naturally doing it in their own way. Workflows and just checking to see if that item is dropped in price themselves.
- [48:07]
Michael Bostick
How does one prep for their first interview on a mic with the matriarch Kris Jenner?
- [48:13]
Sophia Kiani
Crying. A lot of crying.
- [48:14]
Michael Bostick
Yeah. Whoa.
- [48:15]
Phoebe Gates
Like, sitting there like, that was the worst.
- [48:20]
Michael Bostick
I think it's good to throw people in the deep end. Like, I mean, I think, like, you start with Kris Jenner. It's like, you. You guys started with, like, the best. It's like, I think it causes you to level up in every area with who you're interviewing, I think it causes you to just kind of get pushed in. What do you guys do to prep?
- [48:40]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, we literally spent the entire weekend thinking what are the best questions we can ask? If she responds like this, what's a good thing for us to share? What's a good follow up question?
- [48:51]
Michael Bostick
Is she wearing a caftan?
- [48:52]
Phoebe Gates
We had no idea what she was gonna wear. I mean, I think for us, we just. It was the same philosophy as the Rays. It is always better to be over prepared. And we were as prepared as we could have been. And we went in and she was incredible. She was so sweet, so delightful and so genuinely interesting. Had such good advice. We honestly didn't ask maybe like 90% of questions. So many questions we wanted to ask. But it was like, because there was such an organic dialogue, it really felt like we were just talking to a mentor and someone who genuinely wanted to help us. And so I think that it was we over prepared and I think that made us feel confident going in. But once we were actually doing the interview, it just all really flowed organically. Like she made it easy.
- [49:38]
Michael Bostick
She's so major. I love her. What was some advice that she shared that really resonated with you guys?
- [49:45]
Sophia Kiani
The biggest one that I really took away was she said that she's involved in none of their creative process. Like when skims is created, when Kylie's lip Krit is created. Like she's not involved in any of that. Like her kids ask her to leave the room. They kick her out when anything creative is going on. But then she's brought back in when a contract needs to be redlined to make sure there's a way out for.
- [50:02]
Michael Bostick
The girls that I've been talking to Michael about this. That is creative.
- [50:07]
Sophia Kiani
A deal.
- [50:07]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah, that's true.
- [50:08]
Michael Bostick
My. I said to Michael yesterday, I said the, the thing that you're so good at is you're so creative with the deal.
- [50:15]
Sophia Kiani
You.
- [50:15]
Michael Bostick
It's, it's, it's unbelievable to me how creative you get with a deal. So I would.
- [50:21]
Phoebe Gates
What do you mean by that?
- [50:21]
Sophia Kiani
Like how, like, yeah, Michael, we need. Yeah, Michael, I'm not gonna. No, Michael, when we get to know.
- [50:28]
Phoebe Gates
Next time, give us some advice.
- [50:29]
Lauren Everts
I don't know if that. Listen, that's a very nice compliment. When she said it to me, I've like been thinking about it. I just, I think. Well, I just, I, I think that people have creative brains in different ways.
- [50:41]
Michael Bostick
Like Chris is creative.
- [50:42]
Lauren Everts
I don't see how to take some of the things she takes out of her mind with her brand or her business on the product side or even on the visual. And like, make I, I, I, you could not get me to do it.
- [50:51]
Phoebe Gates
Wouldn't work.
- [50:52]
Lauren Everts
My brain doesn't work that way. But I could see how you can weave different pieces and different parts of either entities or machines or capital or structures together that create opportunities, I think to create bigger wins for either those pieces being put together or greater opportunity.
- [51:11]
Phoebe Gates
We give an example.
- [51:14]
Michael Bostick
No, I'll give you an example. So say someone like, wants to come do a podcast at Dear Media. Okay. Michael's brain is 30 steps ahead. The podcast to him is like, it's like a tentacle off the octopus. You know what I mean?
- [51:26]
Lauren Everts
No, that's not a good example.
- [51:28]
Phoebe Gates
Oh, never mind.
- [51:31]
Lauren Everts
I think it's more.
- [51:31]
Michael Bostick
What's a good example? Do a good example.
- [51:34]
Lauren Everts
Come on.
- [51:35]
Michael Bostick
There's so many things I could say right now to give a good example.
- [51:38]
Lauren Everts
I think there's. My brain works in a way of, like, how do you unlock new capital resources or new opportunities by weaving different agreements and different pieces of different businesses together so that one plus one equals six or four instead of two.
- [51:51]
Sophia Kiani
Okay, so you have the burnouts. What are you doing? Like, what are you thinking?
- [51:54]
Lauren Everts
So, like, I don't, like, I'm not interested in talking to you guys about your show and your ad inventory. Like, that's where I start. Because, like, most people, like come to a podcast business and they go, like, what are you gonna do to sell my ads? Well, that's boring. I could do that in my sleep. Like, I'm not saying to be an asshole, but, like, we've done that for years. I know how to do it. I used to do it for Lauren and I like that. To be honest, selling ads for shows is pretty easy. Getting premium rates and getting them to the right place so the market digests them is also easy. My thing for you is I want to know how there's a brand that exists beyond this and if there's a book at some place and if there's a business that get weaved and if the success of that show leads to more opportunities that then unlock other opportunities. I want to think down the line of that because for you, you guys can go and take your show and the numbers of your show and take it to different places. That'll promise you all sorts of different things based on, like, what the show is doing. But a lot of these people are very short sighted in like, taking something and turning it into a much greater brand or business and they're also not thinking about other things that exist adjacently that they can marry to that thing to make it more valuable and more worth your time.
- [52:56]
Phoebe Gates
Like, what would a bigger brand look like?
- [52:58]
Lauren Everts
Well, for me it's like. And again, like, not being so familiar with your existing business, I imagine. And we never again, like, never talked, but I imagine most people would say, okay, like, you're gonna do this, and then we're gonna put you in this agreement. It'll be a year or two and we're gonna take this percentage and like, we're going to sell these and. And like, and like, their. Their value prop is we'll probably feature you on some of our channels so, like, get to help you grow. It's like, okay, great. Like, very standard, basic stuff. Every company does that. My thing is like, the conversation starts with the intention around, like, what you want to do in five or 10 years and then what pieces I need to bring to you so that it's even worth it for you to give me a piece of your revenue. Like, everybody that I talk to in my current role in my job already has a business. They already have a media brand. They already have a personality or a. For me to just say, give me a piece of that.
- [53:47]
Sophia Kiani
Yeah, that.
- [53:48]
Lauren Everts
Nobody wants to do that. They would come to someone like me because I can add enterprise value to the thing that they ultimately want to build down the line while also providing them growth. And so my perspective is like, I need to deliver on that and bring you something that is that before I even think about the other stuff. Because if not, like, a year will go by in your contract and the show will grow and you'll be looking at another place that'll do something else but for a greater amount of money. And to me, that's like, I don't want to play that game with people. I don't know if that makes sense.
- [54:16]
Michael Bostick
Excuse me. I said my example was the example.
- [54:22]
Lauren Everts
I don't know.
- [54:22]
Michael Bostick
I said a podcast is a tentacle.
- [54:25]
Lauren Everts
But it starts with like, listen, like, I'm super upfront with people and I'm like, I'm going to take a piece of your business. And they're like, well, that sucks. Right? That's your first reaction. It's like, why would I do that? And I go, but I'm going to take your business from being worth X and turn it into X plus Y, Z, whatever. And so then you look at it like, oh, that's like a much more interesting thing for everybody. So you're willing to do something like that with an individual like myself or someone else. Because there's like a real value prop as opposed to like let me leech on to what you're already doing.
- [54:53]
Sophia Kiani
Right. And is that structured as like equity or is like a rev share?
- [54:56]
Lauren Everts
It depends. Like it could be. It's different for everybody. Like some people want to go into ip, some people want to go into products, some people want to build a business, some people want to start creating other things. Like, like the point is how do you take pieces together that are out there floating around, put them together in a creative way so that everybody together now has a huge win and also a huge thing to strive for. Right. But I think what Lauren was referencing to me in terms of the way my brain works in agreements is I just start from the perspective of what are the pieces that need to be added in here. And then a lot of times people say like, oh, that's not possible or you gotta carve this or you gotta change that. And I'm like, no, no, no. There's a way to make this work together in kind of like supersede and get past a lot of those kind of like blocks. Quick break to talk about fatty 15. I love being early to the party sometimes and we have been very early to the fatty 15 party. But now it's time for you to join as well. If you haven't. Here's the thing. Fatty 15 is a single ingredient supplement that is made of just C15. It is completely natural. I've been taking it for months and months now with, with stellar results. If you're not familiar with C15, C15 is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in 90 years. And get this. Studies have confirmed that it's three times better, broader and safer than Omega 3s. The origin story is that Fatty 15 co founder Dr. Stephanie Van Watson, who's been on this show twice now, I highly suggest you check out those episodes. Discovered C15 as the first essential fatty acid to be found in over 90 years while working with the US Navy to continually improve the health and well welfare of aging dolphins. Yes, the Navy works with dolphins. I was surprised too. Again, check out those episodes. We tell the whole story there, but let's keep this moving if you want to get sciency about it. Studies show that C15 works by strengthening our cells, improving our mitochondrial function and protecting us against damaging free radicals. The result, better long term metabolic, liver and heart health. It ends up that many of us are deficient in C15 which results in weaker cells that make less energy and quit working earlier than they should. All of that means makes us age faster, sleep poorly, feel sluggish. If this sounds familiar, it may be because you're deficient in C15. So like I said, ever since I discovered this product, I've been taking it daily. It's one of my go to's. I can't live without it. I just did an episode recently on my morning cocktail. This is one of them. It's in there every single day. And of course we have an incredible offer for our listeners and viewers. Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long term health. You can get an additional 15 off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com skinny and using code skinny at checkout. Again, that's fatty15.com skinny one of the.
- [57:29]
Michael Bostick
Most asked questions I get when I do a Q and A on Instagram story is what prenatal I use and what postnatal I'm using. And most of you guys know it if you listen to the show. So I use ritual. I've used ritual for all three of my pregnancies. They are amazing. Most prenatal vitamins humans aren't even clinically tested and I am not into this because this is one of the most crucial phases of human development. So what ritual does is it closes the gaps and it sets a new standard, which is awesome. So the one that I took when I was pregnant with Bond was the Ritual Essential Prenatal Multivitamin. And you can expect all the things in it. It has methylated folate which is so important if you listen to the Gary Brca episode. It has biotin and vitamin D and moms taking ritual had overall lower cortisol levels during pregnancy than a leading prenatal. So they really designed this for moms in mind. I noticed they're really easy to swallow too. It's not getting stuck in your throat, it doesn't give you like weird burps and everything is designed to be well absorbed. You can go on their site and see where everything's from too. If you're pregnant or you're postpartum them, check them out. Don't settle for less than evidence based support. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com skinny start ritual or add essential prenatal to your subscription. Today that's ritual.com skinny for 25% off. So I was introduced to the RealReal because I started selling my clothes on the platform and then once I started selling my clothes. I went on and became a full on shopper. The RealReal has it going on. It's sustainable luxury that upgrades your personal style. So they have everything from brands like Gucci, Fendi, Prada. I have gotten some amazing pieces on there like vintage Hermes. I have found a wallet from Seline on there. I've even found like a beautiful Chanel bag that I could not find on any other site. I like how everything is authenticated so you know it's real. And resale is also amazing for the planet. It I like to use the RealReal. When there's a piece that I can't find anywhere that's sold out everywhere, I usually find it on their site. I also am someone who sells on the RealReal so if you want to sell your clothes, you should also check it out as well. It's great for both. If you're looking for a dress for like a fancy occasion or maybe you're looking for a poolside, like a really great slide, they really have it all. I shop and sell the real real, which is great because I can use my earnings for something special that I want that I've been coveting. I've even found something for Zaza there. The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. With thousands of new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com skinny. That's therealreal.com skinny to get $25 off, start shopping now at therealreal.com skinny make sure skinny is all lowercase. How is my skin? You know what this sunscreen, it's caffeinated, it's mineral, and it does not pile under makeup. I applied it today with a damp beauty blender before I got my glam done. And it lays so nicely under like a foundation or a concealer. But here's the thing that I like the most about it. So, so when I'm off work and when I don't have to do podcasts or Instagrams or content or I just can just be comfortable, I can wear this caffeinated sunscreen and I still get a really nice tint and a protection and it looks like my skin is all one even tone, which is nice without all the makeup. It's not like a foundation. It, it's, it's like the caffeine tightens your skin. It gives you a nice even tone and it just gives you a little bit of Color. So what I like about this sunscreen is the versatility. So you can wear it when you're off and you're running around and you're running errands and wear it with nothing over it. Or you can wear it like I'm wearing today right now with foundation and concealer over it. So it works both ways. I will wear this when I'm going to the gym in the morning and just wear it throughout the day with nothing else else or I will wear it with a full look. I created the sunscreen because I couldn't find a mineral based sunscreen with caffeine in it. Caffeine tightens the skin, it shrinks the pores and I just like how it lays on the skin. And I mixed it with a mineral sunscreen and then we made it SPF 40. So it's a real treat. I think that you guys will absolutely love. Just comes out in a pump, fits in your handbag and it can go through the airport. You can shop this@shopskinnyconfidential.com and it's the caffeinated SPF. Also, if you're like me and you go through sunscreen quickly, you can subscribe and the sunscreen will get delivered straight to your door. So you don't have to worry about it. That's shop skinnyconfidential.com to round this out. That's what Kris Jenner does. Yeah, she's so. She. So maybe she's not creating the a lip kit, but she's creating.
- [62:43]
Lauren Everts
No, but the red lines are. Because she sees a bigger puzzle than other people.
- [62:46]
Michael Bostick
Yes, it's a puzzle. That's a good word.
- [62:47]
Lauren Everts
And that's a good way. I look at almost as like I used to play video games when I was a kid. You have to like put these things together. Like these are the. It's. It's seeing the puzzle pieces and how like maybe seeing a path that other people don't look at. I don't know if. And it's just a. It's a more of. It's a different kind of creativity.
- [63:02]
Michael Bostick
What else did you learn from Chris? Any other noteworthy things? We're all gonna go listen to the episode. But what else did you learn?
- [63:08]
Phoebe Gates
I think the other thing that ended up we didn't even realize, we didn't know that this was going to go super viral. But it has gone super viral is there was this point in the podcast where she said one of the biggest pieces of advice she has for people is to keep a clean car. And she said Having a clean car is just so important, and you're able to think better. Like, you're able. Like, when you're in an environment that's positive and you're spending so much time in it, it ultimately makes you function more effectively. And she was basically saying she wishes that she could see people's cars, while if it's someone she's interviewing, because she judges people really heavily based on whether or not their car is organized, because she was like, I can tell so much about a person depending on how well they maintain their car. And then all these people were basically duetting the sound, being like, oh, my God, I'm gonna clean my car now, because Kris Jenner is judging me. And so I think that was honestly super interesting. But people, like, really, really resonated with it.
- [64:08]
Sophia Kiani
Sophia doesn't know how to drive.
- [64:10]
Phoebe Gates
I don't know how to drive.
- [64:10]
Michael Bostick
I was like, I don't even send.
- [64:12]
Lauren Everts
That clip to Lauren.
- [64:13]
Michael Bostick
I do have a pristine car. My car is pristine. Sometimes, though, I have a plate with old eggs. Okay. Because I eat a lot in the car because I'm very busy at this moment. So sometimes there's the fact that you.
- [64:28]
Lauren Everts
Could look these two young women in the face and say, you have a clean car.
- [64:31]
Michael Bostick
I'll send you a picture of my car.
- [64:33]
Lauren Everts
This is psychopathic behavior.
- [64:35]
Phoebe Gates
Wait, what do you think her car looks like?
- [64:37]
Lauren Everts
It looks like an old plate of eggs from two days ago that she forgot in the back seat.
- [64:40]
Michael Bostick
With makeup and stuff everywhere. Right now. There's the mango plate. Like, there's. Sometimes there's, like, things like that, but the car is clean.
- [64:49]
Phoebe Gates
Whoa.
- [64:50]
Michael Bostick
I think that Kris Jenner is referring to, like, a.
- [64:53]
Sophia Kiani
Like.
- [64:53]
Michael Bostick
Like, there's stuff everywhere.
- [64:55]
Lauren Everts
There is stuff everywhere in your car.
- [64:58]
Michael Bostick
I'm gonna send you guys a picture of the car.
- [64:59]
Sophia Kiani
I'm not worried about it at all. My car in college was a mess. It was a mess.
- [65:03]
Michael Bostick
I think Kris Jenner would like to get in my car.
- [65:06]
Sophia Kiani
And by the way, Sophia has no idea how to drive.
- [65:08]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah, I don't know. I was like, such good advice. I don't have a car in your.
- [65:14]
Lauren Everts
Old plate egg car.
- [65:15]
Michael Bostick
First of all, I'm going to be like, Sophia, I'm not really, like, a big driver. I. I don't want to drive. I want to be driven. I want to putz around. I want to be leisurely. I don't really want to drive. So that's number one. So basically, it's your car that's dirty because you're driving me around in it.
- [65:30]
Lauren Everts
Oh, wow.
- [65:31]
Phoebe Gates
She really. Oh, my God.
- [65:35]
Sophia Kiani
That was the art of the show right there.
- [65:37]
Phoebe Gates
She's really good.
- [65:38]
Michael Bostick
Your car is disgusting.
- [65:40]
Lauren Everts
Moving on.
- [65:41]
Phoebe Gates
He's like, your car is so messy. And you're like, it's your car.
- [65:45]
Michael Bostick
We have a lot of questions from the audience. They're rapid fire, but you don't have to go, like, super rapid. Like, they're just quick little questions. Guilty pleasure. You guys are very driven. You're very ambitious. I can tell there's got to be a guilty pleasure. Is it a martini?
- [66:03]
Sophia Kiani
It's a martini for me, to be honest.
- [66:05]
Michael Bostick
Is it a chocolate mushroom? What's the. What's the guilty pleasure?
- [66:08]
Sophia Kiani
Probably a martini. Like, a Manhattan for me would be it.
- [66:10]
Michael Bostick
Okay.
- [66:11]
Phoebe Gates
Honestly, I love Temptation Island. I love salacious stupid dumb tv.
- [66:17]
Sophia Kiani
She loves, like, Reddit, like, gossip threads is definitely yours.
- [66:22]
Phoebe Gates
I think it's Temptation Island. I've watched every single season.
- [66:26]
Sophia Kiani
Do I need to win?
- [66:27]
Phoebe Gates
I know. Oh, my God. It, like, finally got on Netflix. I was like, everyone is so behind. Like, this is where it is at. Like, I. I love Temptation Island.
- [66:36]
Michael Bostick
Do you guys rot or do you marinate?
- [66:39]
Phoebe Gates
Wait, what? What's the difference?
- [66:40]
Michael Bostick
Well, I marinate, so I liked. Instead of rotting in bed and like, laying there, I like to habit stack it with like a.
- [66:48]
Lauren Everts
It's the same sheet mask.
- [66:49]
Michael Bostick
No, it's not a sheet mask. A bed tray, a plowman's lunch.
- [66:53]
Lauren Everts
It is the same thing.
- [66:53]
Phoebe Gates
Oh, yes, I do that. Like, I'll. I'll put, like, Temptation island in the background and then I'll, like, write, answer my emails or something. Yeah, no, I marinate.
- [67:03]
Michael Bostick
This is very different. I just got this bed. Or not. I just got this table. Michael doesn't know about it because I'm about to give birth. So there's this table that you can get. I'll send you guys the link. It's white, it's really cute, and it, like, rolls to your bed. Do you know what I'm talking about? And on it, I have my whole setup. My coaster with my tea with my.
- [67:24]
Sophia Kiani
Oh, my God, I want this.
- [67:25]
Michael Bostick
It's really great. It's like, it's like 150, and it just goes over your bed, and then you can roll it away when you're ready to go to sleep. But I love a bed tray. Like, a good bed tray, where you can put newspapers on the side you don't read.
- [67:39]
Lauren Everts
Okay. Come on.
- [67:41]
Michael Bostick
Books.
- [67:42]
Sophia Kiani
I actually really like that idea a lot. My nightstand is a disaster, though.
- [67:45]
Phoebe Gates
Wait, what's your guy, guys? Guilty pleasure.
- [67:47]
Michael Bostick
My guilty Pleasure. Well, right now, when I'm not pregnant.
- [67:51]
Lauren Everts
Is my guilty pleasure.
- [67:52]
Michael Bostick
My guilty pleasure is a margarita. Skinny half rim assault.
- [67:57]
Lauren Everts
I don't feel guilty about anything.
- [67:58]
Michael Bostick
Freezing cold Chips, salsa, guacamole. A. A marination in bed.
- [68:03]
Lauren Everts
What's my guilty pleasure?
- [68:06]
Michael Bostick
Video games.
- [68:06]
Lauren Everts
I play video games, but I don't know. That's so guilty. I needed something to zone.
- [68:09]
Michael Bostick
Oh, I like housewives too. Okay, we got your guilty pleasures. One thing in your closet you'll never delete.
- [68:17]
Sophia Kiani
My mom, when she was pregnant with me, gained literally 80 pounds, and she used to have.
- [68:21]
Michael Bostick
Oh, it makes me feel so much better.
- [68:22]
Sophia Kiani
These old coats that were, like, custom made from when she was working at Microsoft, like, early, early on. And she ended up giving them to me because she can't wear them anymore. Best thing ever. It's like this suede coat. I wear it all the time.
- [68:35]
Michael Bostick
That is such a good one. That's a good one.
- [68:37]
Phoebe Gates
That's a really good one.
- [68:38]
Sophia Kiani
Yeah.
- [68:39]
Phoebe Gates
Okay, so one thing in my closet I would never delete. Okay. Honestly, my mom came to help me with, like, cleaning and organizing my apartment, and I have all these old clothes from Stanford, like, you know, frat party outfits. Keep it. It's cute. And I was like, honestly, I mean, what if I go out sometime? And she was like, you will literally never wear these tank tops ever again. And I was like, but it. It's a. It reminds me of a good time.
- [69:01]
Michael Bostick
So also, I feel like you guys need to keep the Stanford merch. Oh, definitely don't throw away the Stanford merch.
- [69:07]
Phoebe Gates
It's a good memory.
- [69:08]
Michael Bostick
Yeah, it's really cute. Favorite piece of advice that you've gotten from anyone. You guys have been around some really incredible people. You're both incredible. What's the piece of advice?
- [69:17]
Sophia Kiani
The universe winks at you. Sarah Blakely told us that. And I think that's the biggest thing, like. Like the universe. Like, sometimes things will, like, happen for a reason, whether you're religious or not. But, like, the universe will kind of, like, give you signs of, like, okay, you're on the right track, or you're not on the right track. So, like, you know, when I'm. I'm doing something having, like, a lucky number that I look out for or something like that, and I kind of notice, like, if I'm feeling really good about something or I'm really enjoying the work I'm doing, like, that's the universe, like, winking at me and being like, oh, like, this is your passion.
- [69:47]
Michael Bostick
I love that because my mantra is, everything's happening for you. Whenever some Michael comes to me and I tell him that, and that's really. I feel like that's the same vibration of the universe is winking. It's the same kind of vibe. What's yours, Sophia?
- [70:04]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, it was really interesting because both Whitney and Sarah said the same thing, which was essentially, you need to trust yourself. And both of them basically had moments in their careers where they tried to hire more experienced people, people who were the industry experts, and they tried to listen to them. And ultimately they realized at a certain point, you're the founder, you need to trust your gut, and you're the one who needs to keep your foot on the gas pedal at all times.
- [70:30]
Michael Bostick
And.
- [70:30]
Phoebe Gates
And I think that was honestly really, really good advice because it's so easy to get in cycles of self doubt or thinking about did I make the right decision or not. But ultimately it was basically like what Sarah said of, if you really are in a state of paralysis, ask the universe for a sign. And then when you get that sign, I mean, she's shared all these stories with us of all these times where she didn't know what she wanted. And then she got really clear and she worked on her mindset and she set an intention like she knew what she wanted and then like she asked the universe for it and then felt like it was received. And so I. I think it was just really validating to hear that for both of them, especially because they're so similar to us, like young women who started these companies who have now become super successful, like they're who we want to be. For them both to say that the biggest thing that stuck out to them was that they needed to believe in themselves, honestly made me feel a lot more confident in actually trusting our own decisions.
- [71:21]
Michael Bostick
You guys are on a great path. I see big things. What's the weirdest DM you've ever received?
- [71:28]
Sophia Kiani
Lil Uzi asked me to go go karting with him, so we went go karting and it was a great time.
- [71:33]
Michael Bostick
Who is Lil Uzi?
- [71:35]
Phoebe Gates
He's the rapper.
- [71:37]
Michael Bostick
I know guys, I listen to Bossa Nova. Stan Getz. Do you know Stan Getz? No. You guys don't. You guys really like, who the fuck is.
- [71:44]
Lauren Everts
Are you familiar with Iron Maiden? No, I'm just kidding.
- [71:47]
Sophia Kiani
Yes, yes.
- [71:48]
Michael Bostick
Little. So he's a rapper?
- [71:50]
Phoebe Gates
Yeah. He's so big.
- [71:51]
Michael Bostick
Did you go go karting with him?
- [71:52]
Sophia Kiani
Oh, we did. We went go card.
- [71:54]
Michael Bostick
And was he fun?
- [71:54]
Sophia Kiani
It was so fun.
- [71:55]
Michael Bostick
Did he like try to date you?
- [71:57]
Sophia Kiani
No, it was genuinely a go karting. Invitation is the craziest thing about. It was not a slide in.
- [72:02]
Michael Bostick
I don't know about that. I swear to goding invitations.
- [72:06]
Sophia Kiani
God. I'm serious.
- [72:07]
Phoebe Gates
He was dating someone.
- [72:09]
Michael Bostick
Okay? It was fun.
- [72:10]
Sophia Kiani
We all go with a group of friends. Hilarious. We lost badly, but it was really hilarious.
- [72:15]
Michael Bostick
I've never seen a guy ask a girl on a go karting date platonically. He did.
- [72:22]
Sophia Kiani
He has a giant diamond in his forehead. Also.
- [72:24]
Michael Bostick
I gotta go Google him.
- [72:25]
Phoebe Gates
He's so cool.
- [72:26]
Michael Bostick
You gotta go google Stan Getz, though. Cause it's really great music to work to. I think you'd like it.
- [72:30]
Lauren Everts
You can listen to some Stan Getz bossa nova in the morning and then maybe end your day with some little Uzi.
- [72:36]
Michael Bostick
No.
- [72:37]
Sophia Kiani
You know who Lil Uzi is.
- [72:38]
Lauren Everts
I do not, but I will after this. I will get out of this and I will google him and I will be blasting some little Uzi in the.
- [72:48]
Michael Bostick
Are you guys in the retirement home right now with us?
- [72:51]
Lauren Everts
You know what? I just proved my old white guy.
- [72:53]
Michael Bostick
Yeah, you did. What's the weirdest DM you've ever received, Sophia?
- [72:58]
Phoebe Gates
It was like the chief Brand officer or an executive at. I'm not going to say the name of the dating company, but like one of the biggest dating companies in the world. Cold DMed me and asked, are you currently in a relationship? If not, I think I have someone who could be your soulmate. Like, something so weird and so crazy and I'm like, in a relationship right now. I, like, me and my boyfriend are dating. I didn't tell you this well because I received this DM and it's a couple months after, like, me and my boyfriend have been dating, and I'm just like, this is so weird. Like, no, that's not how we're gonna find our soul. No, I know. So I. Obviously I don't respond because I'm like. I'm very like, I love my boyfriend. Things are going awesome. But I was like, how many people are receiving this dm? Cause this is just so bizarre. It was scary to me.
- [73:44]
Michael Bostick
Maybe she was copying, pasting it. Or maybe it was geared towards you. Did you put it on scene?
- [73:48]
Phoebe Gates
No, I just, like, left it. It's still there in my request.
- [73:51]
Michael Bostick
Do you ever put it on scene?
- [73:54]
Phoebe Gates
No, I actually turned my red receipts off.
- [73:56]
Michael Bostick
Putting it on scene sometimes. This is a little hot tip for all the girls listening. If I were you guys, I would be using that scene button, like, no tomorrow.
- [74:04]
Phoebe Gates
Really? Wait, why?
- [74:06]
Michael Bostick
Because it's amazing. It's like, eh, seen it Moved on like that. If you want to get a guy, don't. Don't, like, act like you haven't read it. Like you know how you can see. Like, put it on scene.
- [74:18]
Sophia Kiani
I've done that on text. Yeah, see?
- [74:20]
Michael Bostick
Or you turn your red receipts on.
- [74:23]
Sophia Kiani
I would be if I were dating right now.
- [74:27]
Phoebe Gates
Did she ever leave you on red?
- [74:29]
Lauren Everts
Yes. It drives me nuts. I'll be in a fight once again and I'll be like, I know you've seen. I see. You see this?
- [74:35]
Michael Bostick
No, it's still, to this day, I don't pick up his calls all the time. You guys don't take advice from us.
- [74:40]
Lauren Everts
We are very toxic.
- [74:41]
Michael Bostick
No, I got in trouble by a lot of people on the podcast because of how toxic I can be.
- [74:47]
Lauren Everts
Mel Robbins came on. There's like a clip that went viral. It's basically like us being toxic in that whole community, you know? But then again, we're still married, kids, 20 years.
- [74:55]
Michael Bostick
You want to keep it spicy, it's fine. If you want to get a guy, guys, put it on red. Turn on your red receipts right now.
- [75:02]
Lauren Everts
I'm going to put you on red. Red. See how you like it.
- [75:04]
Michael Bostick
That doesn't hurt my feelings, cuz I know that I. No, that doesn't. That's not going to work.
- [75:09]
Lauren Everts
We'll see. We'll see.
- [75:10]
Phoebe Gates
Oh, you're going to turn the tables on her.
- [75:13]
Lauren Everts
All right.
- [75:13]
Michael Bostick
Biggest ick in business. Before you go. Biggest ick on. When you present the deck.
- [75:18]
Sophia Kiani
When they've said they've never used chat GBT before, I'm like, what the hell are you doing with your time then?
- [75:23]
Michael Bostick
That's crazy.
- [75:23]
Sophia Kiani
You're writing every single email by hand. I've had people say, no, I love writing emails.
- [75:27]
Michael Bostick
Huh? No, you're writing every email by hand. What? Wait, what? Explain it to me. I. I'm in. I'm the ick.
- [75:34]
Sophia Kiani
You, like, go on Chachi. And you have it help you write emails and then you edit it to make it sound like you. Or you can train chat GPT to write like you like. They have a whole, like, GPT like, store and they're all free where you can do like professional email writers. And you like, click on one of those and then you. You paste in like, you're like, oh, respond to this email and say, da, da. It spits out a response for you. And then you adapt it to your tone and then you respond to the.
- [75:55]
Michael Bostick
Person, which, wait, I feel like that sounds like more work than the way I email. Cause I only email a sentence that's also true.
- [76:05]
Lauren Everts
Lauren has had the same autoresponder saying she's in the office taking time for herself for three years.
- [76:11]
Michael Bostick
Because guess what? I am not going to waste time in my inbox.
- [76:14]
Sophia Kiani
Yep.
- [76:14]
Lauren Everts
You know what she does? She. Everyone emails her. She doesn't respond. Three months go by, she responds and goes, team, what are we doing about this? It was taken care of a month ago. We did it.
- [76:24]
Michael Bostick
That's the point, though.
- [76:25]
Lauren Everts
I did it.
- [76:26]
Michael Bostick
See how that happened?
- [76:27]
Lauren Everts
I did it.
- [76:28]
Michael Bostick
It takes care of itself because I didn't respond. See how that works?
- [76:33]
Lauren Everts
What I will say is this incessant need to respond to every. I go in texts and emails and I just delete a lot of the time. And then if it filters back up, it's important. But if it doesn't come back, it must not.
- [76:44]
Michael Bostick
But my question for you is when you're. Are you doing this with every email that you get? Only the ones that are like, important.
- [76:50]
Sophia Kiani
No, only like the non important one ones. Like if it's a really important email, I'm handwriting it like I'm sitting down doing it. But if it's like a template, like, you know, I need to. To send a certain email, then I'll, I'll use ChatGPT to help me out.
- [77:01]
Michael Bostick
Okay. I need to get, I need to get in on that. You need to show me.
- [77:03]
Lauren Everts
I use ChatGPT for my medical ailments.
- [77:06]
Phoebe Gates
What does that mean? What do you mean?
- [77:07]
Lauren Everts
Well, like, you know, we do have time for this. Well, I'll throw my back out instead of going to the doctor, like, tell me what to do and give me a recovery protocol.
- [77:13]
Sophia Kiani
Go to the doc. Go to the doctor too. Do both.
- [77:15]
Lauren Everts
And then I'll ask the doctor what they think of the protocol and then.
- [77:17]
Michael Bostick
You'Ll talk to me. And it's an intermodal monologue narration. Great. Poor chap. GPT.
- [77:21]
Sophia Kiani
Ask it. Put in your guys's text. The most fun thing to do with chat is to put in your text and then ask it to analyze the relationship.
- [77:28]
Lauren Everts
You want to know something cool?
- [77:31]
Sophia Kiani
Are we meant to be like, I see. I love this. I have got all my girlfriends.
- [77:35]
Lauren Everts
The brokers out there aren't gonna like this, but I was buying this property the other day for something and I didn't use a broker and I never done that. And I asked ChatGPT what to do if you're not using a broker and how to negotiate and how to do it.
- [77:45]
Michael Bostick
He said he left. Use a broker again.
- [77:47]
Lauren Everts
I mean, it's up for brokers but, like. But honestly, like, I was like, oh, that's. That's all you got to do.
- [77:51]
Michael Bostick
Okay, well, I mean, if chat GPT is that good, I don't need a husband.
- [77:54]
Lauren Everts
Let's see if chat GPT can do a couple things I can do.
- [77:58]
Phoebe Gates
I think you guys should upload your text and ask it to psychoanalyze your relationship.
- [78:02]
Sophia Kiani
I think if it said you guys aren't toxic, then you could go back to those TikToks and be like, chat GPT says we aren't toxic.
- [78:08]
Lauren Everts
We make a blanket statement that, honestly, people should probably know. Not, like, take full relationship advice. And when everyone says, should we work together? I say, absolutely not.
- [78:17]
Michael Bostick
Well, you guys know there's toxic things that happen within the friendship when you're working together. I'm sure maybe there's not.
- [78:23]
Lauren Everts
I've had fun talking to you guys today.
- [78:25]
Sophia Kiani
We've had so many fun.
- [78:25]
Michael Bostick
I need to hear your biggest ick in business.
- [78:27]
Phoebe Gates
I mean, honestly, I think my biggest ick is a lot more simple. But I hate when I have really clearly communicated something to someone for them to do, like, a very specific thing, and then they either will do it in a way that doesn't make any sense, or they will not do it and do other things that are not a priority.
- [78:53]
Sophia Kiani
She means when people don't listen to her. That's what she means when anyone doesn't listen to her.
- [78:56]
Michael Bostick
No, but you're very. You seem very literal and articulate with what you need. And when it's not done right, I. I see what the ick is there.
- [79:04]
Phoebe Gates
Like, I mean, I feel like I really love clearly communicating as much as I can of, like, okay, here's exactly. It's like, it needs to be done at 12pm it should look like this.
- [79:13]
Michael Bostick
Yeah.
- [79:14]
Phoebe Gates
And then if it's like 12:30 and then I haven't received anything and then I receive something where it clearly goes against bullet point three and five. Then I think it's also about. Not about, like, following. Not about, like, following instructions, but more. I think a really incredible trip for people to develop is asking questions. Like, if you're confused about something, like, you should ask questions. Like, I think the worst thing that someone can do is, like, pretend like they have everything figured out and then to do something when you could have just like, clarified and asked a question and then prevented, like, a miscommunication. And I also think that, like, deadlines are important.
- [79:53]
Michael Bostick
This literally feels like a personal attack to someone who's listening. You better watch out.
- [79:59]
Lauren Everts
Targeted. This. This feels.
- [80:00]
Michael Bostick
This feels so targeted. I can't wait to hear off air what it is.
- [80:03]
Sophia Kiani
Watch, it's me, it's not you.
- [80:06]
Michael Bostick
And wait till you have kids and you give them really specific.
- [80:09]
Lauren Everts
That was a very specific example you gave.
- [80:12]
Michael Bostick
I like it, I like it.
- [80:13]
Phoebe Gates
I'm thinking of a very specific recent.
- [80:17]
Sophia Kiani
12:12Pm was also the very specific example she said.
- [80:20]
Lauren Everts
And you ignored bullet points 3 and 5.
- [80:23]
Michael Bostick
Put it on your Instagram stories. Crop that clip. Where can you download what you guys are doing? Where can you find your podcast? All the things tell us, go to.
- [80:31]
Sophia Kiani
Fia.Com you're going to download us as an app and then you're going to add fiat to your Safari and click Allow for us to be able to follow you around on every shopping website to give you the best deal.
- [80:41]
Michael Bostick
And also, I'm going to get my vest for you guys.
- [80:44]
Phoebe Gates
We're going to do it right after this.
- [80:45]
Sophia Kiani
We're going to get you that damn vest.
- [80:47]
Lauren Everts
Be sure to give the critical feedback on the vest. That's everyone's job.
- [80:49]
Michael Bostick
The vest is cute. And where can we find you and.
- [80:52]
Phoebe Gates
Your new podcast guest at the Burnouts on every social media channel?
- [80:55]
Lauren Everts
Congratulations, guys.
- [80:57]
Phoebe Gates
Thank you for having us on. We also learned a lot from you guys.
- [80:59]
Sophia Kiani
Thank you guys so much for having us on.