Relationship Expert Dr. Morgan Cutlip On Why 50% of Marriages End In Divorce, The Mental Load, & What All Moms Need To Know

Summary

The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast Episode: Relationship Expert Dr. Morgan Cutlip On Why 50% of Marriages End In Divorce, The Mental Load, & What All Moms Need To Know Release Date: March 20, 2025

In this insightful episode of The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast, hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick welcome renowned relationship expert Dr. Morgan Cutlip. The conversation delves deep into the prevalent issues leading to high divorce rates, the overwhelming mental load carried by parents—particularly mothers—and practical strategies to enhance relationship dynamics and intimacy.

Understanding Burnout in Parenthood

[02:00] Lauryn Everts kicks off the discussion by highlighting the often-overlooked phenomenon of burnout among parents. Dr. Cutlip explains that burnout extends beyond typical parental responsibilities, encompassing cognitive, emotional, and physical exhaustion. Lauryn emphasizes, “Burnout often just sounds like the regular stuff we attribute to being a mom,” pointing out symptoms like forgetfulness, irritability, and a pervasive sense of being overwhelmed.

Notable Quote:

Lauryn Everts [01:45]: “Forgetfulness, irritability, like inability to track where stuff is... that is a major symptom of burnout.”

Defining and Managing the Mental Load

Dr. Cutlip introduces the concept of the "mental load," describing it as the invisible, cognitive, and emotional inventory mothers carry. She breaks it down into three domains:

1. Physical Tasks: Daily chores like cooking, cleaning, and organizing.
2. Mental Tasks: Planning, scheduling, and managing logistics.
3. Emotional Labor: Navigating family dynamics, anticipating needs, and maintaining emotional well-being.

[38:46] Lauryn Everts elaborates, “The mental load is the seemingly never-ending running to-do list that we carry around in our minds.” She stresses the importance of self-management and regularly assessing one’s own capacity to mitigate burnout.

Notable Quote:

Lauryn Everts [03:35]: “You have to become a really good manager of yourself... you gotta do like a self scan every single day.”

The Prevalence of Guilt in Parenting

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the guilt experienced by mothers. Lauryn explains that societal expectations often burden women with "undeserved guilt," where unrealistic standards make mothers feel inadequate despite their best efforts.

[07:13] Michael Bostick shares, “A lot of the themes… the topic or the theme of guilt populating way more with the women I’m around than with the men.”

Notable Quote:

Lauryn Everts [09:37]: “There is deserved guilt… prompts you to change your behavior… and undeserved guilt… is almost all the mom guilt.”

Navigating Relationship Dynamics and Communication

Effective communication is pivotal in maintaining a healthy relationship, especially under the strains of parenthood. Dr. Cutlip and the hosts discuss strategies to prevent conversations from escalating into defensiveness or the infamous "Hardship Olympics," where partners compete over who has it worse.

[20:50] Lauryn Everts introduces the concept of giving compliments, emphasizing their role in fostering appreciation and reducing resentment:

“I see how you prepped all of the snacks for our kids today before we left for work. I am so grateful you do that, because I didn’t even have to worry about it…”

[28:43] Michael Bostick adds, “I grab by the arm, I say, listen, buddy, toughen up.”

Maintaining Intimacy and Connection

Intimacy often wanes as relationships transition into parenthood. The panel discusses how burnout and the mental load contribute to feelings of loneliness within a marriage. They advocate for proactive measures like:

• Regular Check-ins: Dedicating time each day to understand each other’s experiences and stresses.
• Prioritizing Non-Sexual Intimacy: Building emotional connections outside the bedroom to enhance overall intimacy.
• Recalibrating Relationship Goals: Continuously aligning on what both partners want from the relationship.

[75:28] Lauryn Everts emphasizes, “Sex starts outside the bedroom. If your relationship is struggling, so will your sex life.”

Overcoming Common Relationship Mistakes

Dr. Cutlip identifies prevalent pitfalls couples face, such as withholding until receiving (“I don’t give until I get”) and villainizing partners through negative lenses. She offers solutions like:

• Mutual Responsibility: Encouraging both partners to take ownership of their roles in the relationship.
• Gracious Interpretations: Giving partners the benefit of the doubt to foster a more supportive environment.
• Resetting Perceptions: Regularly reassessing how partners view each other to prevent negative stereotypes from taking hold.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Morgan Cutlip [35:08]: “We start to see everything they do through this selfish lens. We need to give way more gracious interpretations of our partner’s behavior.”

Embracing Change and Mutual Support

The episode concludes with an emphasis on adapting to evolving relationship dynamics and supporting each other through life’s challenges. Michael and Lauryn share personal anecdotes demonstrating the importance of teamwork and open communication in sustaining a marriage.

[82:15] Michael Bostick reflects, “We always, like, say, it’s good if you feel like you’re both pushing the boulder up the same hill.”

Notable Quote:

Lauryn Everts [71:51]: “Modern family life is just absolutely relentless... It's relentless.”

Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the factors contributing to marital dissolution, the intense mental load carried by parents, and actionable strategies to enhance relationships. Dr. Morgan Cutlip’s expertise offers listeners valuable insights into managing burnout, overcoming guilt, fostering effective communication, and maintaining intimacy, ultimately empowering couples to navigate the complexities of modern family life together.

For those seeking further guidance, Dr. Cutlip recommends her books, which delve deeper into managing the mental load and strengthening marital bonds.

---

Follow Dr. Morgan Cutlip:

• Instagram: @DrMorganCutlip
• Website: drmorgancutlip.com
• Books: Available wherever books are sold.

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to capture the essence of the conversation. For full insights and context, listening to the original podcast episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

[Michael Bostick]

She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Lauren Everts]

Fantastic.

[Michael Bostick]

And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick are bringing you along for the ride.

[Lauren Everts]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Michael Bostick]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential him and Her.

[Dr. Morgan Cutlip]

Welcome back again to the Skinny Confidential him and her show. Today we have a special guest, relationship expert and educator who's here to drop some serious knowledge on us. Dr. Morgan Cutlip, who specializes in helping couples navigate everything from the mental load of parenting to improving communication, intimacy, and overall mental well being. Today we'll be diving into why so many people feel lonely, how your home environment might be affecting your mental health, and how to have crucial conversations that can take your relationships and sex life to the next level. Get ready for an insightful conversation on how to redefine your relationship dynamics and take back your power and love intimacy in life. Dr. Morgan, welcome to the show.

[Michael Bostick]

This is the Skinny Confidential him and her.

[Guest Speaker]

Something a lot of people I think don't even realize is that they're burnt out. Like they don't even know it's a burnout. What do you think contributes to a burnout? How do you even define it?

[Lauren Everts]

Burnout. Burnout. So in motherhood is like kind of where I specialize with burnout. And burnout often just sounds like the regular stuff we attribute to being a mom. So forgetfulness, irritability, like inability to track where stuff is. You don't need to walk in a room and you're like, I don't even know why I'm in here anymore. That is a major symptom of burnout. So familiar.

[Michael Bostick]

Very familiar. I don't know where I'm supposed to be.

[Guest Speaker]

Something to call it. Michael, go ahead.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, there's usually three areas. So it's your cognitive. So almost like you lack some space in your brain to manage the stuff. And then there's the emotional, which is like you cannot seem to manage your emotions because you don't have as much capacity to kind of put toward regulation, things like that. And then there's just the physical. So your body like women. I think something like 80% of autoimmune diseases exist in women. A lot of our emotional state and our kind of mental well being will come out in our physical body. And so a lot of times that's the other piece of burnout. You'll feel it. You'll be like, I just feel so burnt out. It'll start showing up in your back. It'll start Showing up in your gut, all these other areas.

[Guest Speaker]

So what do you tell people to do when they hit all these three symptoms?

[Lauren Everts]

There's lots of places you can intervene. But I talk about it in my first book with moms and I teach moms. And it really applies to anybody, which is that you have to become a really good manager of yourself. Because we tend to just go so hard into our motherhood, our work, our. All of these things we pour into others. Women specifically are like really socialized to sort of sacrifice themselves for the preservation of their relationships. So you have to get good at being a self manager, which you're like, you are the epitome of being so good at this. I listen to so many episodes and it's like, you have your morning routine, you've got your stuff. But I encourage people, you gotta do like a self scan every single day. What's going on with me? What's going on with my physical self, my emotional, my mental. And then you make little tweaks to kind of correct or you define it, you put a pin in it, come back to it later.

[Guest Speaker]

Like you take an inventory.

[Lauren Everts]

You take inventory. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I think also too, as you get older, you start to be like, okay, my energy Thermometer is at 75% today. This is what's actually going to be able to happen with that 75%. And the rest is like, it's going to. I'm not going to be able to do it. And I'll give you an example. Like some text messages that I have right now haven't been returned for two months. And it's not that I'm like going out of my way to not return them. I just, like you said, only have so much capacity in one day. And you know, my kids, my husband, my work, my family comes number one. And then like, I can get to it when I can get to it.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And I, I'm not, I know that it's not even a boundary and I'm not even trying to be mean.

[Lauren Everts]

No. It's just kind of like an assessment of your capacity having some good self awareness, which most people actually don't have that good of self awareness. So they don't check in on.

[Michael Bostick]

That's gonna be my book. It's gonna be all about self awareness.

[Lauren Everts]

I. I think it would be a great book.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

I think there, I think self lacking in society.

[Guest Speaker]

Are you going to chapter on yourself and how you look at yourself in elevators and. Don't look at me. He looks.

[Lauren Everts]

No, that might. My husband does that.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm very self aware that I do that.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay, what about restaurants?

[Michael Bostick]

I don't lie about it.

[Guest Speaker]

When we're on a date and there's a mirror behind, he will talk to himself. I once clocked it for two hours. He talked to himself in the mirror. I'm like, we're on a date.

[Michael Bostick]

That's an exaggeration.

[Guest Speaker]

Is that going to be in your life?

[Michael Bostick]

It was only like an hour and a half.

[Lauren Everts]

My husband has a face he makes at himself in the mirror.

[Guest Speaker]

What's the face like?

[Lauren Everts]

Like blue steel. Like that. Like he'll be. I'll be talking to him, like a serious conversation. And he'll be like, it's out of the mirror.

[Guest Speaker]

It's out of the mirror.

[Lauren Everts]

What are you doing? I know.

[Guest Speaker]

My whole family murdered. He's like, how's my hair?

[Michael Bostick]

I'm like, well, listen, I got to. I got to build inner confidence.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, okay. So when people start taking a self inventory and they start really being self, self aware of their capacity, what have you seen change from this?

[Lauren Everts]

When you're aware of your capacity and you can make adjustments in all of this, then you can show up in your relationships as more of a whole person. I mean, the thing is, is like, especially for women, this whole concept of self sacrificing for everyone else completely backfires. We do it in a way to sort of care for the people we love most, care for our kids, care for our partners, all these things. And then we end up being the worst versions of ourselves when we do this. So we get grouchy, we lose our cool, we get resentful toward our partners. And so when you start assessing your energy in all these different areas, not just that, but these other areas, and you start making some space to care for them and to make some adjustments, then you can actually show up in your relationships in a way that actually benefits them. And it feels good to you because like, when we show up in our relationships as our worst selves, we end up feeling really crappy about who we are. And so then that. It just becomes this like, layered effect of feeling really crappy about ourselves and our relationships and especially how we show up in motherhood.

[Guest Speaker]

I agree. I mean, I totally, totally agree with everything you're saying. I think when I notice myself getting like a teapot. You know that sound the teapot makes?

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

When I feel that I have a place, I go, I literally will just be like, I'm going to the foot spa. No one can find me there. Like, no one talks. I'm not gonna run into anyone. And I just go there, and I will work for two hours.

[Michael Bostick]

How much does guilt factor into all this? Because, like, a lot of the themes and, you know, I speak to a lot of women and work with a lot of women. Like, I hear the, like, the topic or the theme of guilt populating way more with the women I'm around than with the men. And I'm not, like, past. I'm just.

[Lauren Everts]

No, I think that's true.

[Michael Bostick]

Maybe men don't have. Is don't feel as much or don't address it as much, but, like, the. The theme of guilt pops up a lot of time, at least with women in my life.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. So I think the reason why that we see it more with women is that men and women are socialized very differently. And even though some of it seems kind of archaic, it still is true to this day that we just kind of, like, absorb these socializations. So I feel like men are socialized to provide and protect. So if a man's, like, doing that, he's like, I check the boxes. Everything else is kind of bonus.

[Michael Bostick]

So then I'm not feeling guilty, because I'm not feeling guilty.

[Lauren Everts]

Like, my husband, he travels every week for work. And I remember once I was like, don't you feel guilty, like, leaving the kids? Like, they barely get to see you. And he's like, you know, for a minute, but this is my job. This is what I do.

[Michael Bostick]

She asked me the same thing all the time.

[Guest Speaker]

This is why I leave once a month for one night. I feel. I feel guilty.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Because about it all month, we are.

[Lauren Everts]

Socialized to be caretakers of relationships, of our home, of our. Of these, to be the nurturers. So we feel like we are somehow neglecting our role. And so that's, I think, what is a huge contributor to guilt for women. But then men don't feel it in the same way.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, because I guess, like, when you. Like when you ask that question to your husband, if you were asking that to me initially, when I go somewhere, I'm like, oh, I feel bad because, you know, they don't want me to leave. And it's, like, tough for them. But then I rationalized and be like, well, I need to do this, because this is, like, how we're providing and how we're building a life for our family. And so it's like that kind of outweighs, in the long run, the guilt of leaving for a day or two.

[Guest Speaker]

When Townes looks at you with his blue eyes, with tears in his Eyes like that emoji, and says, I don't want you to go to work. You don't feel guilty.

[Michael Bostick]

I grab by the arm, I say, listen, buddy, toughen up.

[Lauren Everts]

I feel like someone's gotta make money.

[Guest Speaker]

Go to work for a couple hours.

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, no. I mean, listen, like, it doesn't work any parent. It, like, rips your heart out. But at the same time, like, I'm able to rationalize real quick, quickly. Like, it's not like I'm going off on a golf trip or skiing, you know, like, I'm going to.

[Lauren Everts]

Wow. My husband does that.

[Michael Bostick]

And it's older now, right?

[Lauren Everts]

Always. I mean, from. But. But I do. Okay, so let's, like, break down the guilt. So guilt is a feeling that you've sort of violated some standard you hold yourself to.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. So there's two kinds. There is, like, deserved guilt, which is when you've done something wrong, and it's in guilt. This is a good type of guilt. You deserve it. You did something wrong. It prompts you to change your behavior to, like, repair. Right. Then there's undeserved guilt, which is almost all the mom guilt, which is basically some set of standards or expectations you hold yourself to that have just gone totally extreme. So if you think about this statement, a good mom should. And then you just fill in the blank with all the things you probably have, all of these really extreme and impossible standards you'd fill in.

[Guest Speaker]

It's out of control.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. So a good mom should not never leave her kids, not even for a moment. A good mom should never have to use a sitter. A good mom should. We have these wild and impossible standards that we hold ourselves to. And then when we have to do something that contradicts all this guilt comes rushing in. But the reality is that's just not true. Like, that's not true. A good mom is like a blend of all sorts of things. And you can be a wonderful mom and still sometimes leave your kids. So we have to, as women, whether you're a mom or not, you have to challenge, like, what you're doing. Women have to do that to challenge the standards.

[Michael Bostick]

I will also say something that may not be so popular with this audience. We had Ivanka Trump on recently, and there was a clip going around where she was just talking about how when her kids were younger, she was like, this time around with the administration, she doesn't want to go and put her kids through it because they're older now. But before she was okay. And there are so many women Commenting to her about, like, how this is not a good way to parent. And like, I. What I've noticed is a lot more women than men, and this is just the observance that I've seen on our channels, are quick to judge other women about their parenting. Like, I've never seen any of my guy friends ever judge any other man or woman on parenting. But a lot of women are really tough on other women if it's counter to maybe the way they parent or think about parenting.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, it's protection.

[Michael Bostick]

It's not. It's a lot of tough.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

It's likely not so helpful and probably reinforces a lot of the guilt because you have a giant population.

[Guest Speaker]

I actually don't give a shit what anyone says. That's not my problem. I don't give a shit what anyone.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but I'm just saying, like, if you.

[Guest Speaker]

I just feel guilty because my. My kids are so cute and I feel bad and they're little and I'm like, oh, I have to go to work.

[Michael Bostick]

What I'm saying is, like, if you're talking about, like, reinforcing that guilt, if you have a giant part of the population kind of doing that 100%, then it's just going to continue to be a problem.

[Guest Speaker]

So maybe it's like a frequency.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes. Yeah. And I think too, like, if you already feel the stuff and then there is society kind of like the chatter of all these women in society being like, how dare you do these things? It's just going to amplify. It's just going to amplify that guilt. Make it harder. Harder to move through it.

[Guest Speaker]

Michael, tell everyone the quote that you have in your Instagram bio. Because it's good.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, my.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, well, this is, like, not related to.

[Guest Speaker]

I think it's very relevant.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, my dad used to say all the time, like, if, like, somebody was saying something to you or like, you know, criticizing you or whatever it may be, he would say, listen, the coyotes howl and the caravan keeps moving.

[Lauren Everts]

Like it just like it's true.

[Guest Speaker]

That's how you have to look at social media.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. A lot of life you have to.

[Guest Speaker]

Look at, like, that keeps moving.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. Just gotta let it go.

[Guest Speaker]

How did you become interested in all of these topics? Because they're niche topics.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, because I loved them. So I've been in the field of relationships for over 20 years. Wow. So I. I don't want to get in the weeds on this, but my dad's in this field and I grew up, like, going to school with him as he was working on his PhD.

[Guest Speaker]

Cool.

[Lauren Everts]

And we play this game where he would give me, like, a case, and he'd be like, how are you gonna help the family? What do you think's going on with the son? And I would analyze it. So I kind of grew up just with a love for this type of work. And then he started doing courses about relationships before, like, everybody and their cousin had a course, and I would travel with him and teach with him sometimes and all these things. So we worked together for a very long time. But when I became a mom, I was just completely blindsided by how intense that transition was for me. And just. It doesn't really end. People say, like, there's a transition into motherhood, but then it just, like, keeps going, and then you just have these other ones. But I was so caught off guard by the amount of responsibilities that increased.

[Guest Speaker]

It's jarring.

[Lauren Everts]

It's jarring my anxiety. I am not an anxious person. And I had so much worry. The guilt. I struggled so hard with that for a long time. I don't really have it much anymore. So that's the one piece after that sort of major hit. I was like, okay, I know what I want to do. I want to help women in their relationships. And I'm going to start with motherhood, because this is gnarly, and nobody's talking about really, how to navigate this in a new way. The second piece to that is, like, it rocks your marriage. At least for me, it did. And just the amount of responsibilities that happened overnight. And I was so bad at involving my husband. And he was traveling. It's a long story. But we got relocated to California. So we had, like, eight months of our daughter's life where we were separate. And so he wasn't just, like, there for that. And I just remember being like, I don't even know. Like, I love you, but I don't even really like you right now. And, like, why am I doing everything? And why do I know how to. I'm the keeper of all the information. Like, what is going on? And so were these two experiences where I was like, we gotta do some work here. We need support. And so it just, yeah, speaks to me in that way.

[Guest Speaker]

I can honestly say, if Michael didn't help me 50%, I don't know, I would want to be married. I mean, with kids like that, it's really hard when you're doing it all your own. I can totally see how women get resentful, especially if they're working. And Bringing in half the income.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Because if the guy can't even change a diaper, I mean, I've had friends where they're like, my husband won't change a diaper. He won't make a bottle. I'm like, that would be a huge problem for me.

[Lauren Everts]

It's a huge problem.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I think it would. I honestly think it would be divorce.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I think a lot of people, both men and women, and the reason some struggle when they become parents is like, you nailed it on the head. Like, your life alters and has changed permanently, and it's not gonna ever go back to the way it was before. Like, I think some people struggle with making peace with the fact that, like, your life is different, your relationship's different, your responsibilities are different, and it's like, for the rest of your life, hopefully you like your kids.

[Guest Speaker]

Would he help when he was home?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, but it was almost like. And. And he is. I. I call. I talk about this in my second book. But he was, like, passively willing. So he's like, you know what I mean? Where he was just kind of like, well, tell me what to do. Show me how to do it. Like, he just wasn't, like, jumping in. And part of it was my fault, too. Like, I. I fully. We got to take ownership in our relationships. I fully take ownership that. I kind of was like, never mind. I'll take care of it, or you don't do it the right way or all the things that we can sometimes do. So I think it really just made the transition that much harder.

[Guest Speaker]

I've heard a lot of women say, oh, you don't. Like. They don't do it the way I want it.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

When I was postpartum, I didn't give a shit if you put the diaper on the head.

[Lauren Everts]

But that served you, though. I was like.

[Guest Speaker]

I was like, I don't care how you do it. Just make sure it's organic and clean. Do you remember?

[Michael Bostick]

Wait.

[Guest Speaker]

I was like, figure it out. Go YouTube it. Like, I've heard a lot of women.

[Michael Bostick]

Say, don't be clicking candy into that mic.

[Guest Speaker]

It's not candy. It's a throat coat drop.

[Michael Bostick]

I can't.

[Guest Speaker]

That soothes my throat because I've been talking.

[Michael Bostick]

I don't want to hear any more bad reviews about you clicking candy.

[Guest Speaker]

But. But I can see why there is room to be resentful. And I also can see the man's side. Like, they don't know what to do.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, my gosh.

[Guest Speaker]

Sometimes. Sometimes they do. It's Tricky. Well, I don't.

[Michael Bostick]

I think, like, for many men, it doesn't come naturally.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

And then you're like, oh, well, you.

[Guest Speaker]

Would have carried the baby for me.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I. I mean, you know what I think, though? For me, I had a sister that was a decade younger than me.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

You know what I mean? So, like, I was. Grew up with a baby, and I remember spending a lot of time with her. So, like, I think it was just. Nor, like, it was normal for me to be around babies.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

You know, a lot of guys, they've never.

[Guest Speaker]

They've never.

[Michael Bostick]

A lot of men, the first baby they ever hold is their baby.

[Lauren Everts]

Is their baby.

[Guest Speaker]

That's wild.

[Lauren Everts]

That was the first baby I held. Pretty much was my baby. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I mean, so I'm like, what do you do with that?

[Lauren Everts]

But you, like, you've done certain things, probably not even aware of what you're doing that actually really helped you, which is that you were like, you figure it out. I'm not worried. I'm not gonna criticize you. I'm not gonna micromanage you, not gonna judge it. And also, though, I'm gonna make you figure it out. And I think that a lot of new moms, especially, struggle to kind of let go of the reins a little bit for whatever reason. Hormones just change. You just whatever all the worry. And so they don't involve their partners in the beginning, and then their partners don't jump in enough, and then they end up being the one who carries all that stuff.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, it's like, kind of like, hey, stay out of it. Hands off. And then like, hey, you've been staying out of it, Hands off. And I'm mad at you. And it's like, it's mixed messaging.

[Lauren Everts]

Totally.

[Guest Speaker]

I will say, though, even if you do have a partner that steps up to the plate 50%, it still does take a toll on your marriage to have a new baby because you're sleep deprived. If you're working, that. That's a whole situation. If you work together, that's a whole situation. I think that it's. It's a chapter I think you have.

[Michael Bostick]

Honestly, I think you have to work twice as hard, if not more in a relationship after you have kids than before.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

Like, it's because of a lot of time, because we talk about this all the time. You can start to just be like, oh, we're just parents now, as opposed to, like, watering the relationship.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. And like, the relationship can start to become really transactional instead of actually feeling romantic or even like, a relationship anymore.

[Guest Speaker]

So it takes a whole lot more work for me. Like, I gained 60 pounds with both my babies.

[Lauren Everts]

Same.

[Guest Speaker]

You don't feel like getting on a strip pole and putting on your kitten heels and, like, bending over in lingerie? It's, like, right away, I need to, like, get my act together and, like. Like, could you go down the street to a happy ending?

[Lauren Everts]

No, I'm just kidding. Go to the foot spa.

[Michael Bostick]

So don't install the strip pole in the bedroom right now.

[Guest Speaker]

I mean, wait a minute.

[Lauren Everts]

You gotta wait a bit.

[Guest Speaker]

If it matches my aesthetic. What if you found in the. The good things that work in a marriage are, like, what are the points that you see that are the common denominators of things that are really working?

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, my goodness. That's a great question. So I think there's a handful of things. So one is, you have to get really good at talking about your relationship. This is like a. It's a crazy big issue for couples. Is that off? This is the typical dynamic, is that the woman will come to the man with, like, whatever, something she wants to change or need that she has, and it immediately spirals into defensiveness. Or you'll have, like, the Hardship Olympics. Oh, I'm tired, too. And, like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Guest Speaker]

We have that every night. The Hardship Olympics.

[Lauren Everts]

What's that? Tell me about that. The Hardship Olympics is where you're both competing for who has it worse.

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, Lauren, you. This is your sport. I, like, will just. I'll be like, I'm tired. And she'll be like, well, I'm pregnant and tired. I'm like, okay, but I'm still tired.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, I will always be more tired than you.

[Lauren Everts]

They do say women need more sleep than men because our brains are busier.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, Like, I need to not to take her side.

[Dr. Morgan Cutlip]

There's that meme.

[Michael Bostick]

It's like, I knew I was. I know I'm tired, but I also know I'll never be as tired as my wife is tired.

[Guest Speaker]

He told me his hair hurt when I was 10 months pregnant.

[Michael Bostick]

That's not what I meant.

[Guest Speaker]

What did you mean?

[Michael Bostick]

I meant, like, my, like, you know, like, when you're, like, when you're achy and then your, like, hair feels like. It's like, yeah, shut the up.

[Lauren Everts]

That your hair hurt.

[Guest Speaker]

I looked at him. I thought he was joking. Anyways, go ahead. The Hardship Olympics. What else?

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so, yeah, you got to be able to talk about your relationship, and part of that requires this sort of mindset shift. So here's the thing about life and relationships is that we are always getting out of balance. Life is always pulling us apart. It's like the good stuff, having another baby, right? The joyful things, the work stuff. All of like the, the normal, the tragic, the amazing things about life will just always be sort of pulling our relationship apart. And so we have to get really good at recalibrating or balancing. But part of this means that your relationship always needs something. And so if we can just embody that mindset when our partner's like, hey, I wanna talk to you about something I need or whatever, we're like, well, that makes sense because our relationships always are operating at a deficit because life is freaking busy. Life is wild. It's always pulling us apart.

[Sponsor]

Smart mouth. Smart mouth is the only mouthwash scientifically proven to eliminate and prevent bad breath for 24 hours with just two rinses a day. So this mouthwash prevents bad breath 12 times longer than the leading brand. This is essentially confidence in a bottle. And it's really interesting what happens. So it's activating their smart zinc technology. This is a zinc ion activation and it's the key to eliminating and preventing sulfur gas, which is what bad breath is. And it's the secret to all day fresh breath, which is what we all want. What I like about this brand is it was developed by a dentist and it's dentist recommended. So I feel like everyone on the planet needs to know about this for fresh, delicious breath breath. There's nothing worse than someone breathing in your face with bad breath. And this not only prevents it, but it also prevents it all day, which is awesome. And I love that they use that smart zinc technology. I think that's awesome. How I would use this is I would use it after you brush. You could even floss before and then I would use the mouthwash. Never have bad breath again. Find Smart Mouth at Walgreens, Walmart, Amazon, or visit smartmouth.com skinny to snag a special discount on your next smart mouth purchase. That's www.s m a r t m o u t h.com skinny don't miss out on 24 hour fresh breath. Your mouth will. Thank you. I am pregnant and I need to be as comfortable as humanly possible because everything is uncomfortable from bras to leggings. It's just an uncomfortable phase. And one thing that I do not compromise comfort on is my shoes. So I needed a pair of shoes to get my steps in. I'm trying to do like 7 to 10,000 steps a day, which is pretty hard when you're this pregnant. So Internoble Noble is a footwear brand for training and for daily life. It's built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength.

But most importantly, what I like about.

It is they're comfortable. The ones that I ordered are the women drive knit. I got them in white, they're chic, they're simple, they look good with everything. I just throw them on and go for my walk. Noble is known for their best in class award winning footwear. With options across training and lifestyle. Noble has options for everyone. So if you want to get ones for training or you just want shoes to throw on to pick up your kids, this is your brand. From morning workouts to the hustle of daily life, the Noble All Day is the shoe for everyday life. Exclusively for him and her listeners, Noble is offering 30% off your order. Visit nobleproject.comTSC. you get 30% off your entire order. That's www.n o b u l l p r o j e c t.comTSC for 30% off.

[Michael Bostick]

Quick break to talk about Primal Kitchen.

[Dr. Morgan Cutlip]

One of our favorite condiment companies in the world. So much so that we've had the founders of Primal Kitchen on this podcast multiple times. Let's talk about real food for a hot minute. We all know we should be e real whole foods. But seriously, who has the time to make sauces and dressings from scratch? Not me. I definitely do not. That's why we love Primal Kitchen condiments. Primal Kitchen has nailed the perfect combo of high quality ingredients and delicious flavor so your meals will taste as real and homemade as it gets. They're not just made from real ingredients, they're also made for real food eating. There are so many staples when it comes to Primal Kitchen. Some of my go tos are their Buffalo sauce. Their mayo is unbelievable. Their ketchup is maybe unbeatable and and it's made with real organic California grown tomatoes. No high fructose corn syrup cane sugar artificial sweeteners. There are so many poor ingredients in other brands that have artificial sweeteners, artificial ingredients, way too much sugar, and just all sorts of junk that doesn't need to be in your condiments. Primal Kitchen News is nothing but whole food ingredients. We love it so much. So if you're all about real food but need a little help making it exciting, you need Primal Kitchen condiments and sauces made with real ingredients. We love. They're your secret weapon for making easy dinners of just protein and veggies taste amaz.

[Michael Bostick]

Of course.

[Dr. Morgan Cutlip]

We have an offer. Head to Primalkitchen.com skinny to save 20 off your next online order with Code Skinny at checkout. That's P R I m a l kitchen.com skinny and use code Skinny. Primal Kitchen products are also available in stores nationwide. So visit primalkitchen.com skinny to find a location near you.

[Guest Speaker]

So what are some examples of? Maybe things that. That you've needed or your husband's needed. And, Michael, you can chime in here, too. That you've needed at a certain point. And how has it changed? Give us a chapter of that.

[Lauren Everts]

So, for me, I feel like I've always kind of needed the same thing. It just took me, like, 10 years to figure out how to communicate it properly. And what was that? So what I figured out was that I wanted him to express things to me that let me know I was visible and valued in our relationship. So I'd be like, oh, I would like some more appreciation. And he'd be like, okay, words of gratitude, Whatever. Gratitude, thank you. Yeah. And affirmation. That's what's looking for. And so he'd be like, oh, you know, you're a good wife. I was like, what? Whatever. Like, that's not a meaningful thing to say. I know.

[Guest Speaker]

They need to think harder, right? The Thoris.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm gonna get him at the Thoris for Christmas.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. Well, I'll give you the ultimate compliment formula.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. So you can just apply this.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Hold on. This is the most important podcast you've ever done. Are your ears awake?

[Lauren Everts]

Are you ready?

[Michael Bostick]

I could use a restroom. Over.

[Lauren Everts]

My hair hurts.

[Guest Speaker]

Turn off the porn.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so it's observation.

[Michael Bostick]

Observation.

[Lauren Everts]

And I'll give you an example. Plus, how it makes your life better. That is the best.

[Michael Bostick]

How it makes her life or my life better.

[Lauren Everts]

Your life better. So I'll just make something up. Okay, so it might be like, I see how you prepped all of the snacks for our kids today before we left for work. I am so grateful you do that, because I didn't even have to worry about it. And I know how well you take care of our kids. Thank you.

[Michael Bostick]

So I can say, I came home and I saw you organizing my bathroom drawers, and it makes my life so much easier. Knowing where to find everything.

[Guest Speaker]

Not pubic hair in your bathroom drawers.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Knowing where to find everything. It's not pubic hair. It's my face clippings.

[Guest Speaker]

Like, pubic hair.

[Michael Bostick]

It's my beard clippings.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, fuck.

[Michael Bostick]

God.

[Guest Speaker]

Just could you get another bathroom and another house.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm trying to give a heartfelt compliment.

[Lauren Everts]

Right now, but, no, you're doing it. And that feels. I mean, I don't know. Does that feel good to you?

[Guest Speaker]

That's not my favorite one. I think they're not the bathroom organization saying that I clean your bathroom drawers.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay, fine.

[Guest Speaker]

I think we can get a little more creative.

[Michael Bostick]

I will say this one. I'll be like, okay, we just went to our daughter's birthday party, and I saw how much effort you put into the invitations and into the party, and it was so special. And that enhanced her party and our lives so much. Right.

[Lauren Everts]

And you're grateful for how well she cares for your kids.

[Michael Bostick]

And you're grateful for how well you care for our kids, how thoughtful she is.

[Guest Speaker]

If you did that once a day, your life would improve 50%.

[Lauren Everts]

It makes a difference.

[Guest Speaker]

So it's literally once a day is.

[Michael Bostick]

A little tall order, Lauren. But we'll.

[Guest Speaker]

It's not a tall order.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

It's not a tall.

[Guest Speaker]

How.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, can we time that? How long did that take you?

[Guest Speaker]

I don't know.

[Lauren Everts]

That took a lot of 10 seconds.

[Michael Bostick]

I just did a whole board presentation that was easier than this.

[Guest Speaker]

Twitter.

[Dr. Morgan Cutlip]

I'm just kidding.

[Michael Bostick]

I can do it. I can do it. That's good feedback. I can.

[Guest Speaker]

Let's do a challenge.

[Lauren Everts]

Let me add one more piece to it. So it can be observation plus how it makes your life better, or it can be a quality. This one, even. This is bonus. This is, like, bonus. A quality about Lauren that you appreciate or makes your life better. Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

You know, it's funny because you probably.

[Lauren Everts]

Are gonna get laid way more now. Like, just that little change I want to see.

[Guest Speaker]

I'll be able to get off that dick if you give me a cold.

[Sponsor]

Morning every single day.

[Guest Speaker]

I love compliments.

[Michael Bostick]

I know. Well, you know what's funny is because, like, I think I'm not so unique, but a lot. A lot of men maybe don't require as many compliments. And so it's somewhat foreign language.

[Guest Speaker]

That's so wrong. I don't agree with that.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I don't require that many compliments.

[Guest Speaker]

You don't even know the compliments I give you that are subtle because you don't even know it's a compliment. That's how good I am.

[Lauren Everts]

This is an argument that my husband and I had for 10 years. He'd be like, I just don't need them.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And I'm like, you already get them.

[Guest Speaker]

That is. That is such a lie. That you don't need compliments.

[Michael Bostick]

I don't need that many compliments. Listen, I have a fully Japanese grandmother and a half Japanese mother. Compliments in our house, where we're rarefied.

[Guest Speaker]

That's why I make it subtle. I know that, but it just.

[Michael Bostick]

It's, you know, you just learn from.

[Guest Speaker]

He'll. I'll give you an example. He'll walk in in a suit and, like, kind of like brush it up like a. Like a what? Like a puff. What are those? Puffins? And he. He won't say anything, but they're looking for. There. There's an undertone that they're looking for a little something.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And then I'll, like, be like, wow, that looks really good on you. That color looks great. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can. You can tell when you guys need a compliment.

[Michael Bostick]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm just telling you. Or I'll be like, your hairline's so great. You love that one.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, they love a good hairline compliment.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay, so tell me something.

[Michael Bostick]

I don't know.

[Guest Speaker]

What can. On the. On the other side, what can women do? Should we be doing this compliment strategy as well?

[Lauren Everts]

That's a good question. So in my book on the mental load, I talk about what both men and women want in their relationships. And for men, I say it's three primary things. So hopefully you don't say you disagree. So the first is peace. They don't like. They don't like a lot of arguing.

[Michael Bostick]

That's part of the issue, number one, to be honest.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, that's the first one I talk about.

[Guest Speaker]

That's smart.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes. And it's part of the reason why a lot of times, like, when you come to talk, like, if a woman comes to talk to her husband, kind of spirals, is because they, like, don't mess with the piece. Okay. The second is affection, which then, you know, also sex is part of that. And then the third is respect.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I think that's probably like, Taylor, would you agree?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Affection for Taylor's blowjobs. But.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, well, that fits with that category.

[Sponsor]

Yeah, I think that.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but it's funny too, because, like, I see, like, I have two younger sisters, and I would always tell them, like, don't bring a bunch of unnecessary drama. Like, just don't.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

Like, don't do it. Like, I know, like, some people think it's funny. Bring the game, do the drama. But it. At some point, the guys and be like, I don't have time for this.

[Guest Speaker]

I like a sliver.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. But it's like, you know, like, if it's. If it's constant all the time, like, if your relationship becomes a source of anxiety or a place where you're showing up and you're like, oh, my God, here I go again with this person.

[Guest Speaker]

Like, at some point, it's too chaotic.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. People just. They don't want it.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

Especially men.

[Guest Speaker]

What are mistakes that you see people constantly making in marriage besides not complimenting their wife every day in that way that you specifically said?

[Lauren Everts]

I feel like this is, like, a whole episode on this question alone. So. Okay, I'll start with one. One is that a lot of times in our relationships, we don't give until we get. So if we are wanting something different from our partner, then we're like, we're gonna hold out in another area until they start to come my way. So we sort of get in these standoffs a lot of times in relationships. And so that will, like, that will pretty quickly erode your connection and closeness. I think, too, we kind of villainize our partners a lot. I think we start to, like, especially after you've been married a while, if you sort of get in these bad attitudes and they sort of really take root in your relationship, we can start to kind of make our partner the enemy. And so then we start to see everything they do. We. Through this lens that they are. So maybe it's like, my partner's so selfish. So this lens clicks in. We see everything they do through this selfish lens. We make assumptions about what they say or what they do through this, Len. So we don't do a good job in our relationships of actually checking our perception of our partner and cleaning that out, resetting it pretty regularly. Focusing on the ways that they make our life better, focusing on the ways that they are showing up or even giving them the benefit of the doubt. We need to give, like, way more gracious interpretations of our partner's behavior.

[Guest Speaker]

I think sometimes when you're in a relationship for a long time, like, every little thing just starts to stand out.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And it is hard. But I totally agree with you. The way if you can, like, almost, like, start with a blank slate in the morning and, like, reset.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And think really positive things and see them from a different perspective. It's helpful.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so you want me in the weeds on this one, because this is, like, I think, one of the most powerful things in relationships. So you think about anybody you are in a relationship with, so you can do each other, but you do this with your kids, too. So we start to Sketch a, like, sort of like an internal picture of the person we're in a relationship with. It's like a mental picture of them. And it's like a caricature. So, you know, like caricatures of presidents. It's always like, you know, Trump's hair, Obama's ears or whatever, they make them super big. So as we sketch the caricature, we start to enhance certain qualities and really focus in on those, and then we minimize all the others. And a lot of times when you're starting to get bugged by everything, you're enhancing some of those really negative qualities. And so then it's like all that you see, so that becomes like these glasses almost you wear that you interpret everything through. So, like, we have to see the positive. We have to shift our focus onto the areas we're kind of neglecting to pay attention to that are really good. And we have to reset it regularly.

[Guest Speaker]

That makes total sense. I hope my character looks like Jessica.

[Sponsor]

Rabbit in your head.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but I think this is, like, for anything, you know, I think as humans, everybody falls in the trap where you just look at life through your own perspective, your own perceptions, and you and people start to fail to look at life through the perceptions of those around them. I think it's actually a much more powerful way to think, to try to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and see the situation as they see it. Yeah, because, like, it's arguable that if you're just looking at something the way you see it, you're likely missing most of the picture.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Because everything is kind of subjective. So I think if couples, I call it like the one minute moment. If every day you spent one minute, like you set your phone, you just did this for one minute, you just close your eyes and you imagined what is going on with your partner that day, and you just practice getting in their perspective. What are they worrying about, what's going on in their world, what are they stressing about, you know, what's on their plate for the day. It will dramatically change your relationship. Because we don't do that. We're just in our world. Then we come together, then we have the hardship Olympics, and then we get annoyed with each other, and then the disconnection grows.

[Michael Bostick]

It's funny, like, even, like, this is like a random side example, but if I'm doing a business deal with someone, I'll maybe think like 10% of the time on, like, what I want to happen and the outcome I'm looking for. And Then I'll spend like 90% of the thought thinking about, like, what they would want to happen. And then from there, you're able to kind of structure something.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

That's much easier to push through, if that makes sense.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

Because you're like, you're starting with their perspective and, like, what will work for them. And obviously you want to. You want to have a win for yourself as well. But if you're just constantly thinking like, this is what I need to win, you're not thinking about them at all. It's likely you're not going to be able to figure it out.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, it probably gives you an edge because not everybody thinks that way. So when you're already kind of like, what's going to serve them or what are they thinking about or what do I need to, like, overcome in terms of their objections? It's. You're probably already in a winning spot when you do that.

[Guest Speaker]

You had a viral moment on your Instagram talking about when you ask your partners for help, but it doesn't get done. Do you mean like a honey do list? What is that? What does that mean? Can you talk to us about that?

[Lauren Everts]

So do you know the concept of the mental load?

[Guest Speaker]

No. Tell us about it.

[Lauren Everts]

You don't?

[Guest Speaker]

No.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. Okay. This is like, can I get in the weeds?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

This podcast.

[Lauren Everts]

All right, let's do it. So I'll give you the 30,000 foot definition and I'll get in the weeds on this because it's kind of important to understand. So the mental load is the seemingly never ending running to do list that we carry around in our minds. And it has two major components. One, the majority of it is invisible. And two, it takes up cognitive real estate. So it like crowds out other. Just like room for other things. Remembering things, regulating your emotions, getting in the mood for sex. All this stuff crowds it out. Everybody has a mental load in the home and family life. Usually women carry it. So. Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

I feel like I carry a little bit of mental load.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, you guys have talked about doing things 50. 50.

[Guest Speaker]

Michael's very maternal.

[Lauren Everts]

That's great.

[Guest Speaker]

That works for you.

[Michael Bostick]

I can't tell if that's a compliment or not.

[Guest Speaker]

It is a compliment.

[Lauren Everts]

I think it is. Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

Like today our son had to go to the pediatrician. I took him to the pediatrician.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think it's great. Go ahead.

[Michael Bostick]

Real mother goose over here.

[Lauren Everts]

And I don't think like, 50. 50 doesn't work for every couple, but it does have to feel fair because if you don't feel like it's fair. That's when you'll build that sort of animosity.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. We also have a different situation. We do a show together.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

We run together.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I want to be. I want to be help. I mean, especially now, like, she's carrying another child, and, like, I don't. You know, I want her to be comfortable. As comfortable as can be.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

So go ahead.

[Michael Bostick]

I also don't think, like, I know this is, like, I don't see it that big of a deal to go, like, change diapers and things.

[Lauren Everts]

It's not.

[Michael Bostick]

I also don't want my kid running around with a dirty diaper.

[Lauren Everts]

No. They get a rash, then you get a whole nother set of issues. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

You got. You treat Townes like you're a little Ken doll with. You do his hair. Look, here's your baby doll. Go ahead.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. Well, this. You might not know much about this if you feel like this is really well handled in your relationship, but this is a massive issue for a ton of couples. Okay. So if we get in the weeds on the mental load, a lot of times what happens is, like, the guys will say, yeah, so that's life. Life's busy. Make a list, knock it out, and kind of move on. And the women will feel kind of silly for, like, why am I so overwhelmed when this is just, like, basic life stuff. Doing the laundry, like, picking up the kids, all the stuff. So this is the in the weeds. There are three domains of tasks with the mental load. There's the physical, that's like, cooking dinner, doing the laundry, you know, mowing the lawn. Stuff like that. There's the mental, which is like the making of lists. So if you're like, work your work life. A lot of that's mental. And then the third. So if you imagine them like circles. So we're doing, like, a Venn diagram. The third is the emotional. And this is the. Like, this is the kicker because the emotional is, like the regular, ongoing calculations. Typically, women. Not always. Maybe you're really good at this. Are doing thinking about the experiences of members of their family. So they're trying to, like, maximize positive experiences. So, like, for example, you know, oh, if we pull our kid out of this school for a better school academically, are we going to, like, scar them for life because they are going to miss their friends? Or if we don't, are we going to scar them for life because they now, like, don't have as good of an education? It's like all of these sort of Mental calculations.

[Guest Speaker]

What about even micro moments? Like, even, like breakfast, like, oh, my gosh, I don't want phones at the table. I want to talk about what we're grateful for.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes. I want thinking about that.

[Guest Speaker]

Tiny little moments like that everywhere.

[Michael Bostick]

You know what I was thinking as you were talking? Like, I don't think this is not an issue in our marriage, but I think one thing that we do, primarily because we get to talk to so many people like yourself, is we talk about a lot of this stuff. So it's on my radar. You know what I mean? Like, if I imagine if we didn't talk to people like yourself and I didn't talk to her about this stuff as often, it would probably not.

[Guest Speaker]

I've never heard someone explain it, though.

[Michael Bostick]

Like, but you know what I mean? It would, as a guy, like, it would probably, like, go over my head. But because I talk about it so often, I'm aware of it. So maybe that's why we're able to manage it together.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. And I'll just round it out. Where these three circles come together, where they overlap, that's. I call it the triple threat. And the majority of tasks in the home and family life, it goes back to what you're saying with these micro moments include all three domains. So, like, when a woman's like, I don't know why I'm so overwhelmed, and kind of can be like, judging herself for feeling overwhelmed, it's like, well, yeah, because like, every little thing you do in your home and family life can be unpacked to include tasks from all of these three areas. So when you do that for everything that goes on in a home and family, it's like, no wonder women are burned out and overwhelmed. Or no wonder. Just like family life can be so stressful.

[Guest Speaker]

I also think, and I'm going to be really honest, I have a lot of help.

[Lauren Everts]

Totally. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And I cannot imagine, and I said this to my nanny the other day, I cannot imagine not having help.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

She raised three children with no help. We talk about it all the time. She used to bring her daughter to her job and her daughter used to help her at nine years old. And she tells me all these stories about being a single mother and having no help from a man and being pregnant and having to bring her small daughter and her daughter having to help her. And I'm sure that set her daughter up, who's now successful for success in a lot of ways. But I have extreme empathy for people that don't have help because I'm lucky Enough to be able to delegate and say, hey, can you help me with this? Can you help me with this? To not have that. And I have help from him 50%. So to not have that is. It's. I can't imagine for a woman the.

[Michael Bostick]

Way that I think about, like, we would not be able to do what we do for a living without it.

[Lauren Everts]

Right.

[Michael Bostick]

Like this. It would be impossible.

[Guest Speaker]

I don't feel like I have to justify.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm not justifying it, but I just.

[Guest Speaker]

Feel like I have to say, like, fuck, if you don't have any help and you don't have any. If you. Maybe you don't have your husband either helping you.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. I'm not even justifying it. I'm just saying, like, if we didn't, there would be sacrifices that would be. Need to be made in other areas. And so I can imagine how hard that is.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

You know what I mean?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

Because like, we would literally have to say, okay, like, you know, we both work at the same time.

[Guest Speaker]

It's almost like impossible to have a job.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Because it's like, I don't know, It's a full 360 immersive job at home.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

And then to run a house and like, you're saying keep it clean, do the laundry.

[Lauren Everts]

Exactly.

[Guest Speaker]

Mow the grass. It's a lot.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. I mean, like, the demands of modern family life are. I mean, then you. Then you like, roll in all the peripheral stuff, like the extra expectations that we have for ourselves because we're constantly consuming content that makes us feel like we're falling short and all this stuff. So I. It's. It feels almost insurmountable because this is not like how we used to live life, you know, in this way with these crazy expectations for ourselves and our family and our home and our kids behavior and what we look like and all, you know, all the things we didn't used to exist. This way. We are. Women are working at higher rates than ever before, which is great. But also more demands on family. And you need support to be able to kind of like do all the things. And I think it's just become nearly impossible. And that's partly why women are struggling and why couples are struggling is that modern family life is just absolutely relentless.

[Guest Speaker]

It's a lot. And then it's like blue day at school and you dress them in red and spirit weekend. Yeah. It's like. And then it's like strawberry snack day. Make snowmen, like, and you gotta bring that. And then you gotta pack a lunch and It's. It's on and on and on where as. No offense, the man's a little more.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, no. I showed up at school the other day and the teacher hit me with the what's going on for snack day? And I was like a deer in head. I had no idea what.

[Guest Speaker]

I was like, we picked Valentine's Day for snack day because my daughter and I are obsessed with holidays.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

And she asked you that and you.

[Michael Bostick]

Didn'T even like, Well, I mean, listen, that's. Most men don't know about the school snack day. I was. She might as well have been speaking Mandarin to me. I had no idea what she was.

[Guest Speaker]

You could have been like, we're gonna do a strawberry strudel heart shaped cookie. We're gonna be doing heart shapes with. With whipped cream around the strawberries. You could have got creative with it.

[Michael Bostick]

I didn't even know.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, well, you didn't even know about snack day.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I didn't even know about snack day.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so this is like. Okay, this is what she's saying coming back. Like, we totally veered from the original question. And I'm probably still not gonna hit it yet. But part of the complaint of women is that men say things like, well, I don't know. And so it excuses them from having to participate or take care of any of these things. I'm not saying that you're doing that, but it was just a perfect example. And part of it is, is that I think where men need to shift, women need to shift too, around this area of the relationship. Where men need to shift, they have to get better at being in the know of what's going on in the home and family life.

[Michael Bostick]

But let me give you the reverse. What if I showed up, I'm like, it's snack day. Like, like, is that what women want either? Like, I don't. I don't know about that.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't know. Yeah, you bring up a good point.

[Guest Speaker]

If he came home and he goes, time for us to pay, I'd be like, get the. Away from me. I got the straw because I like to be in my feminine way.

[Michael Bostick]

What if I popped out? I was like, I made the strawberry strudels. Like, oh, my gosh. No.

[Guest Speaker]

But even with bills, I don't want to be involved.

[Michael Bostick]

I think sometimes women got to be careful.

[Guest Speaker]

You could take the bill.

[Michael Bostick]

Sometimes you got to be careful with what you're asking for.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

Because there is. There is a little bit of a testosterone issue going on with. With some. In my salt. Yeah, we can't blame it. All in the seed oils, but soy milk. I think some things you should just be like, okay, like, this is maybe gonna sound sexist, but maybe there is some areas that men should not be involved in and some.

[Lauren Everts]

I actually agree with you on this, which is a little bit maybe controversial. But, like, I.

[Michael Bostick]

If my son, like, say he's gonna go, like, I don't know, he wants to go play football. Like, dude, I don't know. Like, and I'm sure, like, mom could show up to support, but, like, I don't know, maybe, like, that's an area where I could, like, spend a little more time with them. Not that I'm the greatest. You know what I mean? Like, just think, like, there are some areas, like, you want to take him hunting?

[Guest Speaker]

No.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, right. Well, I think. Okay, so with the topic of the mental load, what I see, like, if you start consuming any content online about this topic, it always villainizes the men. It's like, oh, they, you know, just divorce them. It's basically like the solution that everybody suggests. Yeah, it's like, really, really. Honestly, as like, in this field, it's incredibly frustrating and it's not productive. Criticism is not a great starting point for change. So, like, why are we doing that? It makes no sense to me, and I think so. My book approaches it completely differently, which says, is you two versus the world. Life is busy, life is hard. Get aligned together, and then you attack it together. And the other piece is, like, if we make men the villains, what are we the victims? Like, I'm not down with that. Like, women have a ton of power to make changes in their relationships on their own. I am not down for this, like, victim stance where we have, like, no sense of agency in our relationship, so we have to be so careful. And I think along with what you're saying, sometimes, especially online, we'll see all this content about, like, wanting men to level up in some pretty big ways. And I'm not opposed to it. There are some men out there that are pieces of work that need to do some work. But we do have to be careful. If we expect men to be like, replicas of women emotionally, we are not going to find it attractive.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I think it's.

[Lauren Everts]

We're not gonna be down with that.

[Michael Bostick]

No, I don't. I think. I think that's what people are seeing.

[Guest Speaker]

I. I don't. I don't need you to be doing snack day.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm good.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, that's good. You don't. Cause I'm not.

[Lauren Everts]

But But.

[Guest Speaker]

But let me caveat that with. When I do snack day and it looks like Disney on Ice.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I'll be complimenting her.

[Guest Speaker]

The cookies have the smoke coming off of them, and they're perfect. And the teacher is beaming from ear to ear. And your daughter has her apron on, and we bring it school. I need you to be like, you know what? I saw you making those cookies. Those cookies looked amazing.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm show up to the school.

[Guest Speaker]

You are such a good mom and a good wife.

[Michael Bostick]

I'm going to show up to school and be like, listen, I got snack day taken care of.

[Guest Speaker]

I don't need you to help me with the house, the curation, the energy, like, the way it looks, the decor, the cookies. But you better compliment me.

[Lauren Everts]

But do you think I appreciate it?

[Michael Bostick]

Is it fair to say that modern couples are also kind of up against societal norms that have always been mixed with pressures to maybe change those norms, and people have not gotten used to that yet.

[Guest Speaker]

What do you mean? I don't think there is still, like.

[Michael Bostick]

And I know this is a crazy thing to talk about these days, but there is still a male, female dynamic, at least in a heterosexual relationship. And I think sometimes when you push men to be more feminine or women to be more masculine, it's.

[Lauren Everts]

It messes with it.

[Michael Bostick]

It messes with the chemistry a bit.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, I. I think that we have some of that going on. I feel like we're in, like a. We're just like in a transition time. I think for a lot of couples, relationships, it's like, in general, as a society, you know, women are like, we're more highly educated for the most part, except I think, doctorates. We're not. But 50 of women are in the workforce. We are less reliant on men for the providing and protecting like we used to be. So we're wanting more things out of the relationship. So we've kind of, like, upped the game. And we're like, come on, guys, like, get with the program. And I think we've changed at a faster pace than men have because they're like, wait, I've been doing it this way. Now you want something different from me? And I think we'll. We'll find our way and we'll get there a little bit. And I think it'd be great for men to level up in some ways. But I do, I just agree with you. Like, I think we have to be careful of upsetting that male, the feminine, masculine dynamic.

[Michael Bostick]

But there is, like, some accountability on men, too. There's A lot of young guys that I think are any of this, the data's out there that are starting to struggle behind women of the same age where they're staying at home longer, they're not generating an income as early as some of these women. There's this whole shift going on where you mentioned a lot more women are entering the workforce and garnishing better salaries or greater salaries. And that's also probably going to be a big struggle for a lot of those young guys as they enter those relationships because maybe they're now not the breadwinner, but like, again, that's like, also people have to take personal accountability and figure that kind of thing out for.

[Lauren Everts]

Themselves, figure out what they can handle.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I think it's a nice balance. What I've realized, like, for me personally is I like a balance in a person of masculine and feminine energy. I think when you're hyper feminine or hyper masculine, it's hard to be in a relationship with, with. So, you know, I'm really masculine in my career and if maybe the way I show up on social media is a little bit more masculine, when I'm home, I'm in my feminine like no other. And I think with you, I, I want you to be in charge of protecting and, and you know, making sure the family unit.

[Michael Bostick]

Wait, I thought you were doing that.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no, you're doing that. I'm not. I don't want any. I don't want anywhere near that. And then. And I expect that. And. But he also isn't as feminine. Like I said, he's maternal. I think if you can kind of learn to balance both as a human, it's helpful to come together.

[Lauren Everts]

Absolutely. Yeah. And like part of it is just like negotiating all of that together and navigating together and also like getting clear on the expectations for the relationship. Like, I don't know if you guys ever had to talk about when you're in your masculine and your feminine, but like, couples have to be aware of these things, talk about these things and negotiate them because otherwise you might be expecting him to do the providing and the protecting, but he's like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to do that. Right, right. And then it's just like you are constantly disappointed then, so, so communicating.

[Sponsor]

So one of my friends got sick and I saw her today after she was recovering and I brought her some of my favorite supplements. And amongst those were Symbiotica's vitamin C, no brainer, Symbiotica's elderberry, my favorite. And then Symbiotica's glutathione. I tell all my friends and family about this brand because it's just creme de la creme. Symbiotica is really. It's as clean as it gets. There's no seed oils, there's no preservatives, there's no artificial junk. It's just high quality, real ingredients that actually do something. I'm telling you guys, when I take this stuff consistently, I feel a difference. I know you will see a difference. How I take it is like my own way. So I'll do the vitamin C with beauty water and put it in water and froth it up. I just think they make products that are designed around energy, glowing skin and gut health. And they have a lot of integrity behind their products. I also think they taste amazing. My kids love the chocolate mushrooms that they have.

[Guest Speaker]

What I'll do is I'll be like.

[Sponsor]

Do you want chocolate and strawberries? And they're like, yes. And then I put like a little bowl of Symbiotica's chocolate mushrooms and I'll.

[Guest Speaker]

Do strawberries with it.

[Sponsor]

I've just found really fun, creative ways to use it. Symbiotica Wellness Made simple. Go to symbiotica.com TSC for 20 off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com TSC. You get 20% off plus free shipping.

You cannot mess around with pregnancy and a bra. Like, I have to have a real comfortable bra. And the bra that I wear is from Skims. Okay? They have a fits everybody scoop bralette. So this is so amazing for every day. I have big boobs and I can't go braless. Especially being pregnant. Like, it's just a lot. I hate the way that sports bras feel at this point. So this bralette just makes me feel supported during the pregnancy. But it's also so comfortable without feeling suffocated. And I feel like a lot of bras are just, I don't know, cutting off the lymphatic system. And this one doesn't do that. They've really designed a bra that does fit everybody and works for everybody. I know so many people that like this bra. It's really like my go to pregnancy bra. They also have a brief that goes with it. So if you're looking for something really comfortable, they have it in every color. This one is nice. And I've been wearing this one during pregnancy too. I go on the skim site and before you know it, I've bought bathing suits. I've bought like a fold over pant. The other day I even bought some T shirts from them. Everything is just flattering, it holds you in and it's also comfortable, which is really important to me. I have been raving about skims on my Instagram stories and during pregnancy they have been the best. From the leggings to the shirts to the long sleeve shirts to even the bodysuits. If you cannot find a bra that's comfortable, you've got to try that Fits Everybody Scoop Bralette Shop Skims Best Intimates including the Fits Everybody collection and [e-mail] and skim stores. After you place the order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. Check out Skims Best Intimates including the Fits Everybody collection and [e-mail] skinny one.

Product that has transformed not only my sleep, but my jawline is mouth tape. I mouth tape every single night. There is not a night that goes by that I miss mouth taping. And the first thing that I notice is I wake up with way more energy. When your nose breathing all night, you get so much more oxygen. It's incredible. And also it supports your tongue posture while you sleep, which sculpts your jawline and makes it stronger. So what I've noticed is better tongue posture, better sleep, more energy in the morning. I cannot live without it. The other night I actually fell asleep for like two hours without my mouth take and I woke up with a dry mouth. I felt like I was almost like hungover. I can't explain it. I have to have this as my nightly routine. So what I do is after my skincare I put the Skinny Confidential mouth tape on. It has a tiny little slit so you can use a straw if you get thirsty in the middle of the night to drink. And then I sleep with it all night and then in the morning I mist my face, I remove it and it is the sleep hack of a lifetime. I know anyone who is looking for a better sleep, more energy in the morning and a more sculpted jawline will love it. You can shop it [e-mail] that's shopskinnyconfidential.com.

[Michael Bostick]

Doing this show for as long as we've done it. Like call it at this point, 800 hours of sitting together talking to people. Yeah, in a weird way it's been like couples therapy. I believe that because you sit here. Like sometimes I hear her say things on the show that I haven't Heard her say to me, and we, like, kind of are, like, working through issues together at the same time. No, but do you know what I mean? I. Honestly, most of our friends that are couples that are struggling, I think it starts with a lack of communication. They're not on the same page. They don't have the same expectation. There's resentment building.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Is that what you find is a big one?

[Lauren Everts]

I think it's definitely one of them. So I think a big one is that we sort of carry around inside of us all of these expectations that we have developed throughout the course of our life. So, like, we have, you know, we learn how to be a partner when we're growing up, watching our family dynamics. Even if you only had one parent or you were raised by grandparents, it doesn't matter. You're still sort of like, creating almost like templates that live inside of you that then come out when you reach certain points in your life, almost like dormant seeds where certain circumstances provide the right sunshine and the right water. So a big one is when you get married, and then the other is when you have kids. So, like, all the templates about what a good parent should look like and what your partner should look like as a parent come to the forefront. What happens, though, is a lot of times people aren't even aware of these things operating under the surface. And all that they are is they're creating these ideals that they're projecting onto their partner. And if they're not aware and their partner's not aware, it becomes a major source of frustration and disappointment. Because when you have all of these unexamined expectations, they really are just sources of, like, judgment of other judgment or.

[Guest Speaker]

Self judgment throughout your marriage. You've been married. You've known your husband since you were. You said 14. Yeah, 14 years old. And you've been married for a very long time. How has it. 87 years. I told you.

[Sponsor]

Like Rose and Titanic.

[Guest Speaker]

87 years. But how do you look at the marriage now compared to when you started? How has it evolved?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, we had to work through, like, the stuff that I try to help couples work through. We had to work through all that.

[Guest Speaker]

Stuff that's so interesting to me that even someone who has the tools.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, there's two people in the relationship, and I'm not saying it's him, but I'm just saying, like, it's a dynamic. It's a dynamic. So you're like, you know, he'll, like, spark something in me, and then I'll, you know, we'll end up in this place. But one of the biggest was being able to talk about stuff without it spiraling into defensiveness. That was like one of our biggest hurdles that we had to, like, keep working at over and over again. Because when he'd get defensive, I'd shut down and then I would just like, hold on to everything.

[Michael Bostick]

So, like, what are some of the prompts you would bring to the conversation in order to have someone not get defensive? Because I think every couple does that. We've done that.

[Guest Speaker]

We've done that. We do that.

[Michael Bostick]

We call it the tit for tat.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, yeah, the tit for tat.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. Every day.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm not like, we fight.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Anyone?

[Lauren Everts]

Well, that's not. That's fine. I mean, couples can fight.

[Guest Speaker]

So what do you do when you get defensive?

[Lauren Everts]

So, okay, there's lots of strategies. I have like a ton of strategies in my book. So if you want to. If you're going to like bring something up that's like you've been holding on to, you need to talk about it. One thing you can do is you can hedge it. Some people don't like this, but some people love it. It's helpful. But you just say, I need to talk with you about something. I'm kind of worried you're gonna get defensive. Can you handle it? Okay, it does. Okay. It kind of. It's like, it's like, I don't know, it's a little bit tricky, but it's really helpful. So it does a couple things. One, the person can self reflect. Because a lot of times we don't self reflect. And so they can say, yeah, I can handle it. So then if they say something and they get defensive because they just committed to not getting defensive, they sort of pause and they have to reevaluate. Am I going to actually do this? And then if they do get defensive, you can say, I was worried you were going to get defensive and you just did. Like, what? So then the follow up is, what are you hearing me say right now? That is causing you to feel defensive. Because a lot of times, again, like, we are interpreting what they're saying in a completely different way than they meant it. And we're like using all of these. Like I said, we wear these glasses. We interpret our partners through different lenses. That's playing a part.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay, what are the other strategies? I want all of them.

[Michael Bostick]

That's a good one, though.

[Guest Speaker]

That's a great one. I can't wait to wait for you. She's gonna try it on me.

[Lauren Everts]

So this probably Is like, more. My thought process about some of the strategies is like, you move along a continuum of confrontation. So I believe that in some relationships, you do get. Have to get confrontational to get a little movement. So this is more of the confrontational strategies. So if you bring something up to your partner and they immediately react with defensiveness, one thing you can do is you can bring out, like, what are their sort of ideals for your relationships. You got, like, the relationship goals? Because here's the thing. A lot of us have these ideals for our relationship, but then we act in a way that doesn't promote actually these things. Like an example, like, okay, you want more sex in the relationship, but you throw everything on me. You're not safe for me to talk to, and you get defensive every time we talk. Or you want more closeness and connection in our relationship, but you're always on your phone. Like, we behave in ways that are different than what we say we want as our outcome. So does that make sense? Totally. So in, like, the moment, you can say something along the lines of, like, what is it that you want our relationship to look like? Or like in a perfect world, like, what is our. What is our ideal relationship look like? And if they're like, oh, well, this, this, and this, and you're like, what are you willing to do to get us closer to that point? So you're almost, like, challenging them to take responsibility for the way that they're showing up in that moment. And so if they say, well, whatever they can answer, then you can say, then you can call them out if necessary. And that's when you say something like, you say you want more connection. You say you want more sex. Like, you complain about that, but yet you won't even hear me out. Like, I don't feel even safe talking to you. How are we supposed to get here if we can't do any of this?

[Guest Speaker]

It makes total sense.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Is there any tips else you got.

[Lauren Everts]

Up your sleeve about that?

[Guest Speaker]

What else you got anything else? I'm taking notes on the defense. What's that other mean? I'm saying I'm not defensive.

[Michael Bostick]

It's like when you tell me to get off the phone, and then I look and you're on your phone. You're like, yeah, but I'm working. And I'm like, well, you're on your phone.

[Guest Speaker]

I am working.

[Michael Bostick]

I know, but what do you think I'm doing? Perusing X.

[Guest Speaker]

Come on, Michael. Are you fucking serious? What are. What do I think you're doing? What are you doing?

[Michael Bostick]

Don't worry about it.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, you're perusing X he loves.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but regardless, it's like that. It's like, that's a good example. It's like if somebody, like, somebody's saying to one person to do something, but then they're. They're literally doing the same thing and not realizing it.

[Lauren Everts]

So then what would happen? Would you be like, well, you're doing the same thing.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, that's what happens. That's not a good. That's not a good.

[Guest Speaker]

I don't do the same thing.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, my gosh.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm working. I don't do the same thing. Michael and I have very different. And this is probably our. And we've talked about this on the show. One of our main issues. We have very different thoughts and boundaries and purposefulness around our phones.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Very different. Like the way.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, okay, so, like, the way he.

[Guest Speaker]

Is with his phone would never work for me.

[Michael Bostick]

Listen, I hear all these people, and many of them have been on the show, Many of them are my friends, and they go and they say, if you look at your phone, it's gonna. You're gonna be on someone else and you're gonna be disrupted and it's gonna set you off and the energy. And I'm like, I just never experienced that. I never pick up my phone. I'm like, oh, my God. Now I'm on somebody else's schedule. I don't feel obligated to answer texts or phone calls or emails. The news doesn't bother me. Like, I don't. I don't. It doesn't. And so when people tell me these things, I'm like, that's not my experience.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, but let me ask you this. When he's on his phone, like that moment you guys are sitting at home, I'm assuming, and you, like, look over and you're like, you get annoyed.

[Guest Speaker]

I find it dismissive. I find it. I work on my phone. It's what I do for a living. I. When I go to dinner with someone, they would expect me to be on my phone. No, it's in my purse. Yeah, it's dismissive. When I'm. I don't go on my phone at dinner in anyone. I. I think that if you can't take a minute from your phone, like, what is life? And I'm not saying he's like, that obsessed with his phone. That's not what I'm saying. He's not. I just think in certain moments, the dinner table, in bed. I'm not an in bed phone. Person.

[Michael Bostick]

But I would invite you to consider. Look at the smirk. That you working on your phone is irrelevant to me.

[Guest Speaker]

What do you mean?

[Michael Bostick]

Meaning like, I don't care if you're working on it. You still find it dismissive or scrolling on Instagram. Whatever you're doing, it doesn't really matter. Just because you're working on your phone does not give you a greater permission to do something. Like I'm saying.

[Guest Speaker]

True.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

But here's the difference.

[Michael Bostick]

I think some people say, like, well, I'm working. So what I'm doing is I got.

[Guest Speaker]

On my phone at 10 from 7:30, but I'm not on my phone till 10.

[Lauren Everts]

So a couple things. So I was going to like, analyze it.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Lauren Everts]

So, like a couple things. So one thing could be you're sort of creating the storyline around what he is. Like when he's on his phone. Oh, he's like this dismissive guy. He's distracted. He's da, da, da, da, da.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so then it's a storyline.

[Guest Speaker]

You should hear it in my head.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. So that's like a whole story. Okay. Is that your storyline?

[Guest Speaker]

Big time.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so she's a big narrative person. What you're doing then is like, you're like gathering evidence to support your story every second.

[Guest Speaker]

I have a bag full of evidence. I have stuff I've written down. I love.

[Michael Bostick]

This is.

[Guest Speaker]

It's not healthy.

[Michael Bostick]

It's very toxic, Lauren. It's not healthy.

[Guest Speaker]

The Internet gets so mad at me. I'm.

[Michael Bostick]

It's not healthy.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, well, no, but that's honest. I'm not healthy, but it's like collecting complaints. So you're just gonna kind of fire yourself up.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay, so like, the hard push to you would be, well, like, you're responsible for how you write your storyline toward him. So like, you one choice is to like, rewrite it and be like, he's just like, this is downtime. This is downtime. And I want him to feel comfortable in our. I know it's hard. I know. I'm just giving you one option. There's other options. But like, I want him to feel Dr. Morgan.

[Sponsor]

That's hard.

[Guest Speaker]

I can.

[Sponsor]

I can try.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm not gonna. I'm not. I'm gonna try.

[Lauren Everts]

Try it. Like, I want him, like, one thing that I think about with my husband is like, I want him to feel comfortable in our home. I don't want him walking around on eggshells. And I don't wanna exist that way either. So I try. Like when he Goes on his phone. Not to like, nitpick. Cause, like, I don't want the same thing turned toward me. And I want him to like, be at peace in our home. So that's like one way.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

The other might be, is like, you just have different expectations around what's an acceptable use of the phone. And if this is like a big deal to you, that might be something that you guys have to negotiate.

[Guest Speaker]

I think that a good deal is no phone in the bed, no phone at the dinner table, no phone in the car. Do you not think that's. Those are easy. Take the phone to the bathroom.

[Michael Bostick]

I can do dinner table in bed, at car. I'm going to need that. I wheel and deal the whole time. I'm just running around on that thing.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm not. I don't think it needs to be used in the car. Those are.

[Michael Bostick]

I just feel 2 out of 3. Be happy with the win. Be happy with the win.

[Lauren Everts]

So like, with expectations, when you're negotiating, because that's what couples, like I talk about in the book. Like, you got to negotiate some of these things that are like big ones. You've got to decide, do you want to let it go? Do you want to level up to meet the expectation? Are you going to lighten up a little bit on the expectation? So maybe you like, find so hard. I know it's really hard.

[Michael Bostick]

No, but I mean, like, we're just using like random examples. But I think to your greater point, I think couples create these narratives and then they're constantly looking for these negative things and that just becomes the reality.

[Guest Speaker]

It's like a box of Pringles.

[Michael Bostick]

Like when my dad says, I stack my Pringles, you're turning a molehill into a mountain. That's like what happens. It's like people. Yeah, but I mean, it's like some of these issues that are not such big issues start to become the biggest issue because someone who only is focusing on the negative. And once you. Once you're doing that, then you can't see any of the good stuff.

[Lauren Everts]

True. Exactly. Exactly.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm gonna look at you through a new lens tonight.

[Michael Bostick]

Say, wow, this guy's worldly. He knows everything that's going on because of his ex postings.

[Lauren Everts]

He learned it all on X.

[Guest Speaker]

How can we work with our partners to cultivate a supportive and positive environment at home?

[Lauren Everts]

I mean, I think part of it is the good communication is like the cliche answer. I think another is like these gracious interpretations of things. So like, like giving the benefit of the doubt as much as possible just kind of changes the tone of the relationship. When you're doing that a lot, versus being, like, kind of snarky or irritated, it's obviously going to feel different to be in the relationship. I think there's, like, so many things supportive. I think be generous with appreciation as much as possible. I think people get stingy. It feels uncomfortable. Like, maybe you felt uncomfortable giving the compliments. It feels uncomfortable sometimes. But you cannot, like, give your partner a big head. You cannot, like, make them cocky with too much appreciation. So, like, appreciate as much as possible. Do you disagree?

[Michael Bostick]

No, no, no, I agree. I think. I think that for both, like, the benefit of the doubt should be given if the. If they're putting the effort out there to try. Like, there's nothing worse than, like, when you're trying and then you get shut down because it wasn't good enough, because then it makes you like, oh, I don't want to try that again.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

You know what I mean?

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, sometimes couples get super entrenched, though, into these patterns. So it's like, it might not work out perfectly the first time around. So it takes time. I think relationship changes are often a slow grow.

[Guest Speaker]

Why do a lot of people feel lonely within a relationship? Because that's a big theme here.

[Lauren Everts]

It's a big. Yeah, it's a big theme. And that was a viral one because I think just so many people resonate with that idea. And I think it's a number of things. I think it's that women sometimes feel like they carry a lot of this, like, the thought and the worry about the home and family life, so they're doing that on their own. A lot of what they do is invisible and doesn't get acknowledged or appreciated. I think. I think too, like, we're on our devices so much that we kind of, like, disappear into this, like, different world and so we can be right next to our partner, but they're, like, completely distracted. And so I think that's a big piece of it. I think another reason is, like, once you've been married for a bit and you start entering into the transactional stage of a relationship, you become kind of like roommates.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I think that's a really lonely place to be. Your partner's not pursuing knowing you anymore, which is like, a big one. We have to get good at that. Maybe they're not even pursuing, like, time with you, so you start to feel like, I don't even know if they like me. So it becomes this like, deterioration of the closeness in the relationship and that can feel really lonely.

[Michael Bostick]

How do you work with couples to help them get their intimacy back? Because obviously, like, we talk about sex on this podcast a lot. Sex, in my opinion, is very important to a long term relationship, I think, for anyone. So what do you do when people start to kind of lose that?

[Lauren Everts]

I think there's a lot of places you can start, but I think one piece is that sex starts outside the bedroom. But a lot of times we don't.

[Guest Speaker]

See it that way 100%.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. So it's like if your relationship is struggling, so will your sex life. And if your sex life is struggling, probably so will your relationship. And so kind of like expanding how we think about sex is really, really important to kind of like taking that step into working on relationship.

[Guest Speaker]

No one's ever said that in the podcast. And you're so right. If your wife is bitching at you for how horrible you are all day long and playing the victim, who wants to have sex with that?

[Lauren Everts]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

And on the other side, if your husband's being a. Yeah. And sitting in his overalls, farting in his jeans, watching his phone all day.

[Michael Bostick]

What kind of guy you picture is.

[Lauren Everts]

Here who's farting in their overalls?

[Guest Speaker]

I'm just.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't know if you married Farmer John.

[Guest Speaker]

No, Michael doesn't have overalls. I got rid of those when we started dating.

[Lauren Everts]

You had overalls?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, he did have overalls.

[Lauren Everts]

What? Taylor.

[Guest Speaker]

He had overall.

[Lauren Everts]

He had overalls. I was horrified.

[Guest Speaker]

He tried to like date me out.

[Michael Bostick]

Sitting around farting in my overalls.

[Lauren Everts]

I was like, what year was that? Were you 12?

[Guest Speaker]

We were. How old old were you in those overalls?

[Michael Bostick]

I was probably 20.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, my 20. And I made you wait another year to date me. It was like Oshkosh, too.

[Michael Bostick]

It was Jean. Jean. Overall. No, I went to some. What did I do?

[Guest Speaker]

I don't know what you. Honestly. Then the year before that you wore a kilt.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, that was for a part. That was for a party.

[Guest Speaker]

This is before me. This is. This is why it took 10 years.

[Michael Bostick]

I had to refine. I had to refine a couple times. Yeah.

[Sponsor]

Oh, my gosh.

[Guest Speaker]

This is all true.

[Lauren Everts]

For real, though, like what you're saying is a big, big deal, A dynamic specifically around the mental load. Stuff that comes out a lot is that the woman will start asking her husband. Well, usually husband or like her partner to step up more. And he will, whatever. He won't do it. Or he'll be like, okay, just Remind me. Just make me a list. So then she starts becoming the nag in the relationship. And so he usually starts kind of pulling away at that point. And so he starts to feel to her like a child. And because now she's the nagging mother, she starts to feel like the mother. And so now you have this parent child dynamic going on, which is, like, not sexy. Not sexy at all.

[Guest Speaker]

So that's like another piece that makes so much sense. It's like a childhood situation. What's the flip of that with the dad and the daughter?

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, flip of that with a dad and daughter? I don't know. Actually, it mostly happens in that direction.

[Sponsor]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

But, yeah, that's a.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[Lauren Everts]

Now I'd be like, thinking about that.

[Guest Speaker]

My whole drive by boyfriend used to nag me all the time. It was flipped.

[Lauren Everts]

Really?

[Guest Speaker]

It was flipped. He would nag me all the time. I wasn't perfect. Let's. Let's just put that out there. I was. I was chaotic, very chaotic. But he used to nag me all the time. And it just got to a point where I was like, I don't want to fuck you.

[Lauren Everts]

No. I mean, it's just.

[Sponsor]

I'm not attracted to.

[Lauren Everts]

Even if it's not mother, son, just make it parent child, because that applies there too.

[Guest Speaker]

It's like a little, like. Yeah, like, boy. Like. Like, that's ex. I didn't even know that's what that was. I all of a sudden one day woke up, and I'm like, I don't want to be intimate with you.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, it's like the ick. You don't want to.

[Guest Speaker]

He also broke both his arms, though.

[Lauren Everts]

So you didn't have to.

[Michael Bostick]

Who were we talking to? The other day when you brought this up?

[Guest Speaker]

He literally broke both his arms.

[Michael Bostick]

How did he break both of those arms?

[Guest Speaker]

I don't even remember. It was a.

[Michael Bostick]

Don't put him on blast like this. I feel bad.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, my gosh.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, please don't elicit her.

[Sponsor]

Okay.

[Michael Bostick]

I mean, that'd be even weirder.

[Guest Speaker]

Tell us about your book. This was such a fun episode. How fun. Come back anytime. You're so fun.

[Lauren Everts]

Thank you. Okay, so my new book's called A Better How Couples Can Tackle the Mental Load for More Fun, Less Resentment, and Great Sex. And it's the only book I'm aware of at this time that talks about the mental load and how it impacts your sexual relationship. So that's something that's really different also. And, like, I've read everything pretty much out there on this topic. And consume a ton of content on positions the couple as being on the same team. It talks about. So you're not going to feel, like, defensive as a man reading this. You're not going to feel like you're villainized. I just don't think that's helpful. And so it's really going to equip couples in some powerful ways. And it talks about four areas you have to get good at sharing. So perspective, expectations, ownership, and accountability. And then it gives couples a plan for how to navigate the mental load.

[Guest Speaker]

I think that's exactly why we wanted you on the show, because it is such a fresh, unique perspective. I think with books, too, we're gonna start to see these, like, niche things that people aren't talking about a lot. Like, Atomic Habits was, like, such a big book. It's because it was something different. Do you know what I mean? And that's how your book feels. It feels like a fresh perspective on it. I think it's genius. And what you said is so true about as a couple. It should be like. Like, you and the couple against the world.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Not. I don't want to fight with my husband in my home. What's the point? I'd rather be divorced.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. We always, like, say, like, it's good if you feel like you're both pushing the boulder up the same hill.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

As opposed to, like, separate, because.

[Guest Speaker]

But it requires all the things that you said. You have to talk about it all the time.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Get, like, realigned.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

That was a really fun episode. I'm, like, crying.

[Lauren Everts]

You cry your tears.

[Michael Bostick]

It is a funny. I mean, I feel bad for the.

[Guest Speaker]

Guy, but I feel bad for you wearing overalls.

[Michael Bostick]

I might bring those back out. Maybe I'll wear them on an episode.

[Lauren Everts]

I hope you do alone. Can you make it the COVID of our episode?

[Guest Speaker]

I'm going to change the COVID You should find the photo so everyone can.

[Michael Bostick]

Like, it's the worst, too, because I wore them with no shirt under.

[Guest Speaker]

And how much did you weigh?

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, and I was like. I was like. I was working out a lot. I was in college.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no, no. How much did you weigh?

[Michael Bostick]

No, I was like. I mean, I sit, like, probably at a good, like, 170, 175 now. And I was like, probably, like, 195. I was just, like, a big, like, meathead.

[Guest Speaker]

And you walked up to me, and I was like, huh?

[Michael Bostick]

You never saw. I never walked up to you in the overalls.

[Guest Speaker]

I have a picture in my head.

[Michael Bostick]

You saw a picture of it?

[Guest Speaker]

In my. In my vision, my narrative.

[Michael Bostick]

It was bad too. It was like, you know, like back in the day, whenever all the guys had, like, the little spiky.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah. It's not a proud moment, I'm not gonna lie. You know, when you look at the time, you think it's like the coolest thing, then you look back.

[Lauren Everts]

Yes, of course.

[Guest Speaker]

Yikes.

[Michael Bostick]

I'll bring it back.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't think that's coming back.

[Michael Bostick]

That'll be some good content.

[Lauren Everts]

I do not think that's coming back.

[Guest Speaker]

In this room wants that to come back. No.

[Michael Bostick]

Let's do a poll. Do a poll.

[Lauren Everts]

No.

[Guest Speaker]

If anyone.

[Lauren Everts]

Because then we gotta imagine you go into the bathroom, you're like. You're like taking all this click, click. That's horrible imagery.

[Michael Bostick]

It's pretty fucked up.

[Lauren Everts]

It's like a woman's jumpsuit.

[Guest Speaker]

Please don't do that.

[Michael Bostick]

I gotta end the show before I. Before I compromise myself anymore.

[Guest Speaker]

Dr. Morgan. Where could everyone follow you?

[Lauren Everts]

You can. Can follow me on Instagram. Dr. Morgan. Cutlip. It's all one word. Find me on my website or my books are anywhere books are sold.

[Guest Speaker]

I know you're going to write more books and you can come back anytime. You were lovely to Shaktu.

[Lauren Everts]

This is great.

[Sponsor]

Thank you.

[Guest Speaker]

And you just helped our marriage.

[Michael Bostick]

Hey, no joke, though. If you did break both your arms, overalls would be ideal.

[Guest Speaker]

We gotta go. Thank you for coming on the show.

[Michael Bostick]

Thank you.